Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, Eve's here. I know you're ready to get
Speaker 1: into this episode, but really quick. We have been loving
Speaker 1: connecting with y'all over black storytelling, and if you've really
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Speaker 1: Now time for the episode. On Theme is a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends. Media listening to Donald Trump
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump, President Trump, Donald James Trump.
Speaker 2: Ever since June sixteenth, twenty fifteen, when Trump announced he
Speaker 2: was running for president the first time, there has not
Speaker 2: been a day that's gone by that we haven't heard
Speaker 2: his name.
Speaker 1: But we were hearing about the Donald long before he
Speaker 1: became one of the most divisive political figures in modern
Speaker 1: US history.
Speaker 2: From cameos and sitcoms, big parts and movies and references
Speaker 2: and songs, Trump has been a pop culture mainstay for
Speaker 2: a while now. I remember when he announced he was
Speaker 2: running for president, and then I kept hearing all these
Speaker 2: songs that had his name in it that I had
Speaker 2: never paid attention to before. I think there's a word
Speaker 2: for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the batter Minehoff phenomenon, like you keep seeing or
Speaker 1: hearing a word after learning about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was hearing all those old songs with
Speaker 2: Trump's name in it, and the references to him were
Speaker 2: pretty positive or at least neutral. So it got me wondering,
Speaker 2: can we track shifts and attitudes toward Donald Trump through
Speaker 2: black media. I have a feeling that we can. I'm
Speaker 2: Katie and I'm Eves. Today's episode Black Donald Trump. Do
Speaker 2: you remember the very first time you heard about Trump?
Speaker 1: So, I'm telling the truth that my memory knows. So
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's the real first time I
Speaker 1: ever heard about Donald Trump. But my first memory of
Speaker 1: hearing about and seeing Donald Trump is the You're Fired era.
Speaker 1: So it was just like you're fired everywhere. What was
Speaker 1: the name of the reality television show that he was on,
Speaker 1: The Apprentice? The Apprentice it was, And that might be
Speaker 1: the thing, the first thing that comes to my mind
Speaker 1: as the earliest memory because it was so pervasive, like
Speaker 1: everybody said you're fired. It was a meme within society
Speaker 1: and not just on the Internet, Like, yeah, in real life,
Speaker 1: people were like, you're fired, ha ha ha, it's funny,
Speaker 1: And somehow it was funny for a million times. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was like not even that interesting of a phrase.
Speaker 1: And also the fact that all of that was around
Speaker 1: like hostility toward another person. It's also pretty problematic and
Speaker 1: like I don't know what was going on there, But
Speaker 1: that's my earliest memory of learning about Trump and knowing
Speaker 1: that he was a hard ass. He was serious about
Speaker 1: his business. You know, he had authority, he had money, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he was a personality. Yeah, so that's what I remember.
Speaker 1: What about you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, The Apprentice was the first time I remember seeing
Speaker 2: Trump and like knowing who he was and like talking
Speaker 2: about him. See, my family was a reality TV family,
Speaker 2: like because you remember like when real TV first got popping,
Speaker 2: like Survivor Big Brother, Like it would come on like
Speaker 2: prime time, you know, Dad come home from work, We
Speaker 2: would come home from school family and watch it. We
Speaker 2: would sit down and watch it. So I don't know
Speaker 2: if we were watching The Apprentice like that, but I
Speaker 2: know I was watching it. Like why I cared about business?
Speaker 2: Like these people were like competing basically for internship.
Speaker 1: I feel also, I mean, why did we care about
Speaker 1: wilderness survival? Why do we care about people living in
Speaker 1: a house together that are doing nothing.
Speaker 2: I mean, why do we care about any of these
Speaker 2: reality TV shows? Hey, they fix it? So we were interested,
Speaker 2: and I was That's what I remember. I definitely gave
Speaker 2: up You're fired out one or two times for the girls,
Speaker 2: girl bars.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: By the time we were aware of Trump, he had
Speaker 2: already cast himself as an eccentric billionaire. Who knows if
Speaker 2: he really was a billionaire, but we knew he was
Speaker 2: a rich white guy with a distinct haircut.
Speaker 1: And by his own admission, he wasn't the nicest guy,
Speaker 1: and he wasn't trying to be. He was a businessman
Speaker 1: and a business man and at his own brand of
Speaker 1: self mythmaking, one does not reach the upper echelons of society,
Speaker 1: like the Donald worrying about hurting people's feelings.
Speaker 2: Take his cameo in The Fresh Prince, for example.
Speaker 1: In season four, episode twenty five, the bank's family is
Speaker 1: offered a one million dollar profit by an unknown wealthy
Speaker 1: client who wants to buy the family house, and spoiler
Speaker 1: alert alert, that wealthy client turns out to be Donald
Speaker 1: Trump and his then wife Marla Maples.
Speaker 2: When the Donald enters the bank's living room, Carlton faints
Speaker 2: from excitement. Oh my God, and Hillary rushes over to
Speaker 2: give a classic Hillary compliment, Hillary.
Speaker 1: Banks, you know you look much richer in person. Will
Speaker 1: offers to cut the grass every weekend for fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: It seems like the only person who isn't excited to
Speaker 1: see Trump is Ashley. Thank you for ruining my life, Ashley,
Speaker 1: what did you do?
Speaker 2: Everybody's always blaming me for everything?
Speaker 1: Actually was the woke one, Loki, Yeah, Ashley was the
Speaker 1: woke one, although I think within the context of the episode,
Speaker 1: it was more like a personal problem that she had with.
Speaker 2: The Yeah, it wasn't ideological, but.
Speaker 1: In effect, you know, in the scene, definitely, I think
Speaker 1: it was still helpful to show one person that wasn't
Speaker 1: completely doting over Donald Trump. I do think that, like
Speaker 1: so many sitcoms, had a tendency to bring somebody in
Speaker 1: and make a big fuss about it, a big ado
Speaker 1: about who that person was, and making sure the people
Speaker 1: knew who it was, because I guess at that time
Speaker 1: most people who were watching were going to know who
Speaker 1: Donald Trump was, and when he walked in, they didn't
Speaker 1: really need the it's Donald Trump walking in, yeah, and
Speaker 1: then what they stilled it, But they still did it.
Speaker 2: They had the live audience clap, which I know is
Speaker 2: like time to clap now, But it's interesting too because
Speaker 2: if you notice Philip Banks, the dad and the fresh prince,
Speaker 2: he shakes Trump's hand, Hillary shakes his hand, Carlton Fates,
Speaker 2: Will's trying to get it to Kay on the side,
Speaker 2: Ashley's like openly hostile. But the wife, un Viv, the
Speaker 2: light skinned one, she just kind of stands there. And
Speaker 2: so in a podcast interview she did she said that
Speaker 2: she refused to shake his hand, which I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know how much of this is just like
Speaker 2: going back and like, oh yeah, like I knew about
Speaker 2: Trump back then, even though he was doing some like
Speaker 2: shisty stuff back then too. But I'm like, or was
Speaker 2: it just like the the wives weren't shaking hands, you know,
Speaker 2: like was it really like, oh, I'm making a statement here, or.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some people try to retcon their own careers, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if she's doing that or not. But
Speaker 1: still she did it, so I guess the outcome is
Speaker 1: the outcome. And I Will also say I'm not mad
Speaker 1: at Will him asking for money. I'm not mad at
Speaker 1: especially for cutting the grass, which might have been something
Speaker 1: he was already doing, right, and it was a lot
Speaker 1: of money he asked for. So I'm also like he
Speaker 1: saw the man and what his usefulness was to him,
Speaker 1: and he was trying to take advantage of that. So
Speaker 1: kind of not mad at that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I definitely think even the numbers of people
Speaker 2: who were in that scene only one person kind of
Speaker 2: like standing up and saying like, I don't like this dude.
Speaker 2: It's kind of reflective of how people probably thought of
Speaker 2: Trump back then. Like it's like, oh, he's rich, he
Speaker 2: must be like really smart and really good. And then
Speaker 2: there's like the outliers like naw, this guy sucks actually,
Speaker 2: And I think that was probably mirroring greater society.
Speaker 1: Well, and then that happened later on era that we
Speaker 1: were witnessed to Trump and his popularity the Apprentice era,
Speaker 1: because it was, you know, the same, like people doting
Speaker 1: on him, you know, and he had done more in
Speaker 1: between those two eras when this episode air and then
Speaker 1: when we were like watching The Apprentice, more had happened
Speaker 1: and people were still acting the same. I wonder do
Speaker 1: you think that the percentages were the same in terms
Speaker 1: of like a simple size if this was a simple
Speaker 1: size of a larger group of people like black people,
Speaker 1: that it would still be like a one to five
Speaker 1: situation where it's like five four of the people are
Speaker 1: like doting on him and one of the people are like,
Speaker 1: I don't fuck with you, and I'm about to show it.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I definitely was like, maybe there's more people in like
Speaker 2: the neutral ground than like openly hostile, because I know,
Speaker 2: I wasn't privy to all the wow shit he was doing.
Speaker 2: I just knew that he was like a rich guy
Speaker 2: who like made a big deal about having a golden toilet.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but not like this is a bad guy, because
Speaker 2: you know, the way things were portrayed back then, it
Speaker 2: wouldn't have gotten that deep.
Speaker 1: No, for you to think that, yeah, very surface.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you would have to be doing your own research,
Speaker 2: which I was not, and I don't think a load people.
Speaker 1: Were, and it was harder to do it internet researching
Speaker 1: like then, right, you had to really be passionate about
Speaker 1: this topic.
Speaker 2: The Fresh Prince episode is a far cry from the
Speaker 2: Blackish episode Please Baby Please, which was scheduled to air
Speaker 2: February twenty seventh, twenty eighteen, but was shelld by ABC
Speaker 2: until August twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty was such an interesting year, to.
Speaker 2: Say the very least, so Trump himself didn't make a
Speaker 2: cameo in the Blackish episode, but Dre, the dad of
Speaker 2: the family, references him and b roll footage of Donald
Speaker 2: Trump plays as he's trying to explain Trump's election to
Speaker 2: his youngest son, Davante.
Speaker 1: He calls Trump the shady King, and he blames him
Speaker 1: for dividing people and sees Trump's presidency as a backlash
Speaker 1: against the election of Barack Obama as the first black president.
Speaker 2: This particular episode was written after the Charlottesville rally, you know,
Speaker 2: the one with tiki torches, which was shocking for a
Speaker 2: lot of people. This episode also touched on Colin Kaepernick's
Speaker 2: kneeling during the national anthem, which Trump used as a
Speaker 2: way to rile up his base.
Speaker 3: Would you love to see one of these NFL owners
Speaker 3: when somebody disrespects our flag to say, get that son
Speaker 3: of a bitch off the field right now out He's fired.
Speaker 2: Members of the Johnson family talked about climate change, which
Speaker 2: Trump denied, Trump's borderwall, and differences between white supremacy and
Speaker 2: black pride. So going from seeing the Fresh Prince how
Speaker 2: they reacted to him being on set to this black
Speaker 2: episode which is all about him really but not having
Speaker 2: him on set but you know Sean Bee roll of
Speaker 2: him and all that stuff. What do you see the
Speaker 2: changes like reflective of those two episodes from these different
Speaker 2: eras from mid nineties to twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Well one, Trump's not on the show, which I think
Speaker 1: is a statement in itself, like you didn't choose to
Speaker 1: bring this person in. So that's a big difference between
Speaker 1: the two of them, because you're willing to pay somebody
Speaker 1: money to give them a cameo spot in your show,
Speaker 1: regardless of what the reaction to them once they get
Speaker 1: on the show is. So he didn't get paid for this,
Speaker 1: They didn't choose to give him more time. But I
Speaker 1: also think it was a teaching moment in terms of
Speaker 1: the Blackish episode. It was like a moment of glory
Speaker 1: for Trump in the Fresh Prince episode. So I think
Speaker 1: that there is also an element of a shift in
Speaker 1: the way that sitcom storytelling happened because there were so
Speaker 1: many of these tropes like cameos, and Blackish still does
Speaker 1: cameos as well. But I think that their choice to
Speaker 1: tell the story about Trump in this way that's kind
Speaker 1: of pulled back from him, and it's more at a distance,
Speaker 1: is more of this contemporary time of storytelling in sitcoms.
Speaker 2: I thought it was telling too. It's like in The
Speaker 2: Fresh Print's episode, he's a wealthy guy who can change
Speaker 2: his family's life even though the banks got money, like
Speaker 2: they did not need to move, but he has the
Speaker 2: ability to give them a lot of money and change
Speaker 2: their lives as one family's lives. But in the telling
Speaker 2: in Blackish, it's like he's changing the whole country, Like
Speaker 2: the whole family is like distirred by him for different reasons,
Speaker 2: like the younger kids are worried about climate change, the
Speaker 2: grandparents are looking at how like the white supremacists aren't
Speaker 2: afraid to show their faces in public anymore, as opposed
Speaker 2: to like the KKK who cover their faces. So it's
Speaker 2: like his influence between ninety five and twenty twenty is
Speaker 2: vastly different, right, Like it's more of an interpersonal exchange
Speaker 2: in The Fresh Prince versus like a societal change. In Blackish,
Speaker 2: Donald Trump was not influencing our lives as toddlers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's reflective of the skill of his impact, Yeah,
Speaker 1: has changed over time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like ninety five, nothing Trump did was impacting us.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty different story. I think that was really indicative
Speaker 2: just of like how things have changed from then to now.
Speaker 1: Also indicative of the consensus of thought and how much
Speaker 1: like our ability to share thoughts in an easier way
Speaker 1: than it was back in nineteen ninety five. That was
Speaker 1: their fresh friends, Yeah, because you know, it's so easy
Speaker 1: for us to exchange our ideas about how we feel
Speaker 1: about what's happening in the political world now, and the
Speaker 1: art that we create, especially the television that becomes these
Speaker 1: shared moments between society, is going to often be reflective
Speaker 1: of what the consensus and thought is, and of course
Speaker 1: that depends upon who the writers are, what their political
Speaker 1: or social leanings may be. You know, they're the writers
Speaker 1: and the creators. Biases are going to show up in
Speaker 1: the storytelling as well, so it's going to be attuned
Speaker 1: to that and also attuned to like what your audience
Speaker 1: is probably going to want to hear. So you know,
Speaker 1: this is also going to affirm and be in alignment
Speaker 1: with what a lot of the audience for Blackish are
Speaker 1: interested in, which is interesting because like the audiences are
Speaker 1: so for people, like the kinds of people who would
Speaker 1: have watched Fresh Prince versus Blackish. But it's like we
Speaker 1: get to see our evolution and thought and that's not
Speaker 1: a negative. It's just like as we learn things, you know,
Speaker 1: we change how we speak about them.
Speaker 2: I want to push back on that because I feel
Speaker 2: like the Blackish episode was the four White People, okay,
Speaker 2: and I think a lot of Blackish is for white
Speaker 2: people because it's like explaining like how black people feel
Speaker 2: about certain things in like a way that's very like
Speaker 2: just like now, how you talk to other black people.
Speaker 2: Like for example, Dre talking to his infant son, was
Speaker 2: saying like something to the effect of Trump wants like
Speaker 2: black people to go back to being and then he
Speaker 2: showed enslaved people, but he said, let's just call him
Speaker 2: really cheap gardeners, Like he wouldn't even say like slave
Speaker 2: or slavery, which I thought was just like very strange,
Speaker 2: like no black person is going to censor themselves in
Speaker 2: that way if they're speaking to other black people. Or
Speaker 2: even when he was talking to when Drey was talking
Speaker 2: to his dad, the grandpa in this show, Lawrence Fishburne,
Speaker 2: he was giving like a history on like Black Pride
Speaker 2: and you know the song Saint Loud, I'm Black and
Speaker 2: I'm proud, like giving like a history on that, and
Speaker 2: it's like black people do not need this in that
Speaker 2: like such like elementary one on one type of way.
Speaker 2: So it definitely felt like the Blackish episode was like, hey,
Speaker 2: white people, like, we know, like you're experiencing economic anxiety,
Speaker 2: but treat us like people.
Speaker 1: You know, That's what it was given to me. Well, one,
Speaker 1: I think he might be giving sitcoms storytelling a little
Speaker 1: bit too much credit because so many of those types
Speaker 1: of sitcoms are meant to be didactic, so they have
Speaker 1: moral they have morality and lessons wrapped up into them.
Speaker 1: So I actually don't think we disagree because I still
Speaker 1: think those two audiences are the same because I don't
Speaker 1: think Fresh Prince was written for black people either. I
Speaker 1: think it was written for general audiences, and that's why
Speaker 1: you have scenes with Trump able to come in the
Speaker 1: first place. Fresh Prince wasn't It was about a rich
Speaker 1: family and it has those elements wrapped up into it
Speaker 1: of the black struggle nearves. But like you know, it's
Speaker 1: the same things. I think that we criticize, or maybe
Speaker 1: not all the time criticized, but question about Blackish, where
Speaker 1: it's like, how can they be representative of all black people?
Speaker 1: You know, so many black people were in the situation
Speaker 1: that the people were fresh Prince were, but you know,
Speaker 1: not one show is not going to represent like the
Speaker 1: totality of like all black experiences. So I think I
Speaker 1: think we were like on the same page.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And now that I think about it, the Blackish
Speaker 2: those they rich too. I feel like in the nineties,
Speaker 2: like being rich was like because that like mansion they show,
Speaker 2: like okay, but.
Speaker 1: Like they rich money, they got money.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's like there's morals and I think in
Speaker 2: the blackst episode it was like the hashtag message that
Speaker 2: was kind of just like okay, girl, we get it
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: Isn't the Blackish family in California? I believe? So Yeah.
Speaker 2: Also just like the fact that ABC waited over two
Speaker 2: years to release this episode because they thought it was
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know the for real, but
Speaker 2: there's a reason behind that. You know. In the in
Speaker 2: the creator of Blackish, Kenya Bears, he was like, you know,
Speaker 2: not happy about that. He wanted to get this out
Speaker 2: he wanted to have this message heard, and ABC was like,
Speaker 2: not chill until like the racial reckoning of twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: and then like, okay, it can be out now because
Speaker 2: like people are walker now, I guess, even though I
Speaker 2: don't think the Blackish episode was too spicy, but so.
Speaker 1: If one episode was, I'll be like, yeah, y'all doing
Speaker 1: that like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't anything to me, but maybe I am
Speaker 2: more radical, but if you have a good take on it.
Speaker 2: But so like in the Fresh Prince, there wouldn't even
Speaker 2: be that conversation like oh, we can't have Donald Trump
Speaker 2: on this, we have to wait to release it, because
Speaker 2: there wasn't anything for that, but ABC was.
Speaker 1: Like, let's wait two years, let it cool off. So
Speaker 1: definitely different control of information. Yeah, and also shows like
Speaker 1: how much the network has a hand and what can
Speaker 1: be disseminated and when, but you know it can came
Speaker 1: out so and like these things are always relevant. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was, yeah, because he was still doing the crazy
Speaker 1: stuff when it came out. Yeah, and still lives to
Speaker 1: this day, to this day. And on that note, we
Speaker 1: got to go to a break. But on the other side,
Speaker 1: we'll be talking about how these allusions to Donald Trump
Speaker 1: show up in music.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the forum where I've witnessed Trump get the
Speaker 2: most shout outs is hip hop, and the difference between
Speaker 2: songs that came out before Trump was president and the
Speaker 2: ones that came out after he was elected is stark.
Speaker 1: I know one song we were digging to in middle
Speaker 1: school by Atlanta's on Young Jock is going Down.
Speaker 2: Oh you know, I was at the school dance get
Speaker 2: in it, And it's such a good example of the
Speaker 2: types of ways black folks referenced Trump when he was
Speaker 2: just a really rich guy. He was like aspirational and
Speaker 2: was shorthand for six sucessful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to call yourself the black Donald Trump, you gotta
Speaker 1: really think highly of.
Speaker 2: Him, And he wasn't the only Atlanta rapper to do so.
Speaker 2: In his twenty eleven song Trump Gez, heils his own
Speaker 2: success and labels himself the Trump of the hood. He says,
Speaker 2: richest nigga in my hood, call me Donald Trump the
Speaker 2: type of nigga to count my money while I smoke
Speaker 2: a blunt period, and Trump responded in a tweet, Oh
Speaker 2: now another rapper doing a Trump song Young Gez Trump lyrics?
Speaker 1: Why aren't these guys paying me.
Speaker 2: Great impression, Katie, thank you. Songs of this era were
Speaker 2: definitely giving. I'm successful now so successful. In fact, let
Speaker 2: me name drop someone I see as the peak of success.
Speaker 1: Started from the bottom. Now I'm Trump.
Speaker 2: Literally in Lil Wayne's Ice Cream, he says I was
Speaker 2: in the trenches, now I'm in the.
Speaker 1: Trump, referencing Trump Tower in New York.
Speaker 2: Which Trump infamously proclaimed was the tallest building in New
Speaker 2: York after the Twin Towers went down during nine to eleven.
Speaker 2: But that's neither here nor there. Other pre election songs
Speaker 2: mentioned Trump Tower as a marker of success. You've got
Speaker 2: Jay Z's success in which he both's apartment at the
Speaker 2: Trump I've only slept in once.
Speaker 1: Nicki Minaj said total meet me at the Trump. Evanka
Speaker 1: in the Flawless.
Speaker 2: Remix sounds like these rappers are a revolving door at
Speaker 2: Trump Tower. What do you think it is about a
Speaker 2: huge building with the Trump name emblazon on it that
Speaker 2: is great fodder for these rappers?
Speaker 1: Well, I just think one it just functions as a
Speaker 1: really good symbol, Like you have this thing that represents
Speaker 1: Trump that isn't Trump himself, that you have access to.
Speaker 1: So that's an easy way into Trump's wealth and glamour.
Speaker 1: And it has his name emblazoned on it, so the stature,
Speaker 1: the image, it just becomes like the perfect symbol for it.
Speaker 1: And of course, like we use symbols and storytelling all
Speaker 1: the time, so I think it's convenient in that way. Two,
Speaker 1: not to get too signifiant, but it's also a phallic symbol,
Speaker 1: I must say, as a building, it is a symbol
Speaker 1: of this like patriarchal situation. It's imposing, it's a large
Speaker 1: you know. So I think that like that goes along
Speaker 1: with it if you want to go a little deeper
Speaker 1: into signifying. But I also think as an outgrowth of
Speaker 1: who Trump himself is, a lot of these rappers had
Speaker 1: this money over everything perspective, and so it was really
Speaker 1: easy to slough off all of the other things that
Speaker 1: came with that. And I think that's not just a
Speaker 1: Trump thing, Like we saw rappers in so many other
Speaker 1: instances shout out to our look up to people who
Speaker 1: have trash morals, like people who are like drug kingpins,
Speaker 1: who are like mob bosses and things like that, who
Speaker 1: commit all these other crimes. So when you turn this
Speaker 1: person into a caricature, who's just a display of wealth
Speaker 1: instead of somebody who has a whole entire life who
Speaker 1: has done other things in it that are very complicated
Speaker 1: for whatever reasons they are. It's like, let's just turn
Speaker 1: a blind eye to that and then go and look
Speaker 1: at this person as a wat of cash. Yeah, instead,
Speaker 1: So I think that came into play when it came
Speaker 1: to Trump Towers, like it was easy to look at
Speaker 1: Trump as just another person who could be the person
Speaker 1: who was symbolizing their money over everything attitude and the
Speaker 1: fact that he had a building to contain in house.
Speaker 1: That attitude was just like perfect.
Speaker 2: I do think it's related to mainstream hip hop's like
Speaker 2: bravado and obsession with being a winner. In capitalism, everyone
Speaker 2: wants to be a boss. For most rappers, they know
Speaker 2: what it's like to be exploited, and they relish being
Speaker 2: on the other side of capitalism's equation, like let me.
Speaker 1: Be in the club. I want to be in the
Speaker 1: capitalist club too.
Speaker 2: Girl Nelly said it best in Country Grammar, Bill Gates,
Speaker 2: Donald Trump, let me and looking up all these lyrics,
Speaker 2: there's just like Trump Trump, Trump, Trump Trump, Like he's
Speaker 2: getting so much free marketing advertisement and that's been my
Speaker 2: beef with a lot of rappers is like shouting out
Speaker 2: like tom Ford and Hill Figure and like all these
Speaker 2: like brands. I'm like, are they paying you to do this?
Speaker 2: Hip hop is so influential and I don't want to
Speaker 2: go too far and being like rappers are the reason
Speaker 2: why Trump has been president, but they did give him
Speaker 2: like a lot of like touchdowns for people sad you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Like, oh, yeah, like why he
Speaker 2: said he was in.
Speaker 1: The church and now you know Trump? Who's this Trump guy?
Speaker 1: The thing is too Trump doesn't have receipts, and y'all
Speaker 1: talking about him and all this money stuff like, oh
Speaker 1: he has receipts and they're terrible. Does That's what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like for you to be able to say, yeah, they're bankrupts,
Speaker 1: like all of like this's not working out for you.
Speaker 1: So are you saying you're gonna have issues with your
Speaker 1: financial situation? The interesting thing about Trump though, because rappers
Speaker 1: do have this history of like putting so much attention
Speaker 1: into adding things into their work that they're probably not
Speaker 1: getting paid for. I'm not in their pockets, so I
Speaker 1: don't fully know, but I know a lot of the
Speaker 1: time when they're calling out things like alcohol, brands are
Speaker 1: really doomssed for being in them that they're not getting
Speaker 1: money from a lot of that, or bags or shoes.
Speaker 1: But Trump doesn't have a product, so at least these
Speaker 1: other things that they're shouting out. It's like you.
Speaker 2: Could presumably be using these things and really like them.
Speaker 1: You could presumably be using them, you could presumably get
Speaker 1: brand deals. It's just like there's an actual physical object
Speaker 1: that goes along with it and something that may get
Speaker 1: you some returns in some way or another. Because if
Speaker 1: you shout out alcohol a lot, maybe alcohol becomes part
Speaker 1: of your brand. And so many people, so many celebrities, musicians,
Speaker 1: different kinds of artists have alcohol deals. Now, that is
Speaker 1: showing what's brands say for you is easily alcohol. You
Speaker 1: know you're not a children's brand. We know you talk
Speaker 1: about alcohol, so it's easy for you to get a
Speaker 1: brand deal in the future. Versus Trump, you ain't getting nothing.
Speaker 1: What you're getting just like.
Speaker 2: What's the payback for that being in the same conversation
Speaker 2: with him, I guess, But really I feel like he's
Speaker 2: getting more than the rappers are.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I agree with you, because like girl. All
Speaker 1: this arrogance he has, it's like, y'all, it's feeding y'all,
Speaker 1: confirming it.
Speaker 2: I will say Trump is easy to rhyme.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, bump hump, bump rump crump. Are we sixty?
Speaker 2: But yeah, So that is one beef. I have ways rappers,
Speaker 2: not just with Trump with the products, but like you said,
Speaker 2: like you could get a brand deal, you could just
Speaker 2: really love Michael Core's.
Speaker 1: I don't know. So pre election songs have similar themes
Speaker 1: of equating Trump to success and rappers frequenting Trump Tower
Speaker 1: because that's what rich and powerful people do. What are
Speaker 1: the post election songs sounding like?
Speaker 2: Good question, and I'll give you an answer after the break.
Speaker 2: So Trump has had some messed up politics.
Speaker 1: For a while. Who could forget that? Trump placed full
Speaker 1: page advertisements in four New York City newspapers, including The
Speaker 1: New York Times, calling for the death penalty for the
Speaker 1: Central Park five yeah.
Speaker 2: And in the nineteen seventies, the US Department of Justice
Speaker 2: sued Donald Trump, his father, and Trump management, alleging the
Speaker 2: Trumps engaged in racial discriminate against black folks in their
Speaker 2: Brooklyn apartments. But although he's been well known for decades,
Speaker 2: most people weren't really tuned into him like they were
Speaker 2: after he announced his intentions for running for president and
Speaker 2: really leaned into his pro white supremacy bag.
Speaker 1: And he was never good in the hood. Again, basically
Speaker 1: we saw them true colors.
Speaker 2: Jay Z, who as you recall, once bribed about having
Speaker 2: a vacant apartment in Trump Towers, later wrapped I got
Speaker 2: your president, tweeting I don't even meet with him.
Speaker 1: I forgot about Trump's tweets.
Speaker 2: The tweet in question, somebody please inform jay Z that
Speaker 2: because of my policies, black employment has just been reported
Speaker 2: to be at the.
Speaker 1: Lowest rate ever recorded.
Speaker 2: That was in response to jay Z telling Van Jones
Speaker 2: that it wasn't okay for Trump to say terrible things
Speaker 2: about black people despite black employment rates being low. Jay
Speaker 2: Z said, quote, it's not about money. At the end
Speaker 2: of the day. Money doesn't equate to happiness.
Speaker 1: It doesn't. That's missing the whole point, which is pretty
Speaker 1: antithetical to a lot of his message.
Speaker 2: Hey, jay Z contains multitudes.
Speaker 1: I guess yeah, he's definitely entitled to change his views
Speaker 1: on Trump.
Speaker 2: I think YG's FDT or F. Donald Trump is the
Speaker 2: epitome of how hip hop doesn't really mess with Trump
Speaker 2: like that anymore. Me and all my people's we always
Speaker 2: thought he was straight influential MF when it came to
Speaker 2: the business. But now since we know how you really feel,
Speaker 2: this how we feel fuck Donald Trump. Yg raps accusing
Speaker 2: Trump of being racist.
Speaker 1: Quite the evolution from simply saying his name being a flex.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I imagine a lot of these rappers cringe at
Speaker 2: some of their old lyrics. They weren't looking at him
Speaker 2: as a political figure, just a rich person they aspired
Speaker 2: to be Like.
Speaker 1: I mean, we all moved through time and got to
Speaker 1: grow up at some point, so I feel like it's
Speaker 1: just indicative of how we learned more over this time period,
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: And I think being pro Trump now is like as
Speaker 2: a black person is like considered edgy, as like being
Speaker 2: uhtimately anti Trump back then was considered like, oh, he's
Speaker 2: on a different wave. But yeah, I don't think Trump
Speaker 2: can go back to being all the way good. No,
Speaker 2: you'll have just sound drastic.
Speaker 1: I mean, what would that be.
Speaker 2: Give me an example, I think if he gave reparations,
Speaker 2: he'd be good because niggas was happy about that little
Speaker 2: stimmy out of.
Speaker 1: His own pocket or just you know, setting up a
Speaker 1: situation for it just government. Now the bar is a
Speaker 1: love child, not the stimmy. I just caught that.
Speaker 2: Niggas is happy they were, And I mean, of course
Speaker 2: some rappers still like him, like Kanye, like Kanye, but
Speaker 2: the overall hip hop sentiment these days are similar to
Speaker 2: that of Joey Badass.
Speaker 1: You got the gut squeeze Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: Now it's time for roll credits. This segment where we
Speaker 2: give credit to a person, place, or thing that we
Speaker 2: encountered during the week.
Speaker 1: Katie, who, what, where or when would you like to
Speaker 1: give credit to today?
Speaker 2: I would like to give credit to changing your mind
Speaker 2: when you get new information. I think sometimes people get
Speaker 2: like really stuck in, like oh I said this publicly
Speaker 2: and so I can't like shift in my attitude. But
Speaker 2: once you have more information, your mind can change. And
Speaker 2: I think that's a positive thing. And I think people
Speaker 2: should not try to be like, oh, gotcha, you changed
Speaker 2: your mind, because like it's natural to like grow up,
Speaker 2: like we see in this episode with the rappers and Trump,
Speaker 2: it's like natural to like to change your mind once
Speaker 2: you get more information.
Speaker 1: So would like to give credit to that. I would
Speaker 1: like to give credit to this week artists who support
Speaker 1: other artists. It can be really hard, you know, sharing
Speaker 1: your work, making a living off of it if that's
Speaker 1: what you choose to do. And it's really nice to
Speaker 1: have encouragement and support in different ways, even if it's
Speaker 1: not monetary support, if it's you know, just encouragement and
Speaker 1: like saying you got this, you know, sending a text
Speaker 1: message here and there, you know, try to see how
Speaker 1: you can help a person with their work, are and
Speaker 1: involving in their work. Really grateful for those kind of people,
Speaker 1: and it's like really nice to see other people do
Speaker 1: it too, Like when you go out to spaces and
Speaker 1: you see people clapping and cheering for people when they're
Speaker 1: doing things where they're clearly like pushing themselves to put
Speaker 1: their art out in the world, and you see that like, Okay,
Speaker 1: if I do this, there will be other people out
Speaker 1: there who will root for me as well. So that's
Speaker 1: why I want to give credit to today.
Speaker 2: I love that and with that, we will see you
Speaker 2: next week.
Speaker 1: While on Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather
Speaker 1: Friends Media. This episode was written by Eves Jeffco and
Speaker 1: Katie Mitchell. It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison.
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also
Speaker 1: send us an email at hello at on Theme dot Show.
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