1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,520
Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, Eve's here. I know you're ready to get

2
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,600
Speaker 1: into this episode, but really quick. We have been loving

3
00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,080
Speaker 1: connecting with y'all over black storytelling, and if you've really

4
00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: been loving the show, then we would really appreciate it

5
00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,200
Speaker 1: if you would leave us a rating and review, subscribe

6
00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,800
Speaker 1: to the show, and share it with your friends. Thanks y'all,

7
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:22,079
Speaker 1: Now time for the episode. On Theme is a production

8
00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:43,880
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends. Media listening to Donald Trump

9
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,479
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump, President Trump, Donald James Trump.

10
00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 2: Ever since June sixteenth, twenty fifteen, when Trump announced he

11
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 2: was running for president the first time, there has not

12
00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,000
Speaker 2: been a day that's gone by that we haven't heard

13
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 2: his name.

14
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 1: But we were hearing about the Donald long before he

15
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,400
Speaker 1: became one of the most divisive political figures in modern

16
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:07,160
Speaker 1: US history.

17
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,199
Speaker 2: From cameos and sitcoms, big parts and movies and references

18
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,319
Speaker 2: and songs, Trump has been a pop culture mainstay for

19
00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 2: a while now. I remember when he announced he was

20
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,240
Speaker 2: running for president, and then I kept hearing all these

21
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 2: songs that had his name in it that I had

22
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,080
Speaker 2: never paid attention to before. I think there's a word

23
00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:24,319
Speaker 2: for that.

24
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, the batter Minehoff phenomenon, like you keep seeing or

25
00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,320
Speaker 1: hearing a word after learning about it.

26
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was hearing all those old songs with

27
00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,440
Speaker 2: Trump's name in it, and the references to him were

28
00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,920
Speaker 2: pretty positive or at least neutral. So it got me wondering,

29
00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,080
Speaker 2: can we track shifts and attitudes toward Donald Trump through

30
00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:46,920
Speaker 2: black media. I have a feeling that we can. I'm

31
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:59,120
Speaker 2: Katie and I'm Eves. Today's episode Black Donald Trump. Do

32
00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 2: you remember the very first time you heard about Trump?

33
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 1: So, I'm telling the truth that my memory knows. So

34
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's the real first time I

35
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 1: ever heard about Donald Trump. But my first memory of

36
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,400
Speaker 1: hearing about and seeing Donald Trump is the You're Fired era.

37
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,160
Speaker 1: So it was just like you're fired everywhere. What was

38
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,040
Speaker 1: the name of the reality television show that he was on,

39
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,640
Speaker 1: The Apprentice? The Apprentice it was, And that might be

40
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,440
Speaker 1: the thing, the first thing that comes to my mind

41
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 1: as the earliest memory because it was so pervasive, like

42
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 1: everybody said you're fired. It was a meme within society

43
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 1: and not just on the Internet, Like, yeah, in real life,

44
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,640
Speaker 1: people were like, you're fired, ha ha ha, it's funny,

45
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,520
Speaker 1: And somehow it was funny for a million times. Yeah,

46
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,800
Speaker 1: and it was like not even that interesting of a phrase.

47
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,120
Speaker 1: And also the fact that all of that was around

48
00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 1: like hostility toward another person. It's also pretty problematic and

49
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,760
Speaker 1: like I don't know what was going on there, But

50
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,760
Speaker 1: that's my earliest memory of learning about Trump and knowing

51
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 1: that he was a hard ass. He was serious about

52
00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 1: his business. You know, he had authority, he had money, Yeah,

53
00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:06,000
Speaker 1: and he was a personality. Yeah, so that's what I remember.

54
00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:06,600
Speaker 1: What about you?

55
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, The Apprentice was the first time I remember seeing

56
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,280
Speaker 2: Trump and like knowing who he was and like talking

57
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,720
Speaker 2: about him. See, my family was a reality TV family,

58
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,480
Speaker 2: like because you remember like when real TV first got popping,

59
00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,480
Speaker 2: like Survivor Big Brother, Like it would come on like

60
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,400
Speaker 2: prime time, you know, Dad come home from work, We

61
00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 2: would come home from school family and watch it. We

62
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 2: would sit down and watch it. So I don't know

63
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,080
Speaker 2: if we were watching The Apprentice like that, but I

64
00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,880
Speaker 2: know I was watching it. Like why I cared about business?

65
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,480
Speaker 2: Like these people were like competing basically for internship.

66
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,839
Speaker 1: I feel also, I mean, why did we care about

67
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,720
Speaker 1: wilderness survival? Why do we care about people living in

68
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,200
Speaker 1: a house together that are doing nothing.

69
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:48,560
Speaker 2: I mean, why do we care about any of these

70
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,440
Speaker 2: reality TV shows? Hey, they fix it? So we were interested,

71
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,960
Speaker 2: and I was That's what I remember. I definitely gave

72
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,520
Speaker 2: up You're fired out one or two times for the girls,

73
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:00,160
Speaker 2: girl bars.

74
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 1: Okay.

75
00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 2: By the time we were aware of Trump, he had

76
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,200
Speaker 2: already cast himself as an eccentric billionaire. Who knows if

77
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,160
Speaker 2: he really was a billionaire, but we knew he was

78
00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,640
Speaker 2: a rich white guy with a distinct haircut.

79
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 1: And by his own admission, he wasn't the nicest guy,

80
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,440
Speaker 1: and he wasn't trying to be. He was a businessman

81
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,040
Speaker 1: and a business man and at his own brand of

82
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,440
Speaker 1: self mythmaking, one does not reach the upper echelons of society,

83
00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 1: like the Donald worrying about hurting people's feelings.

84
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,400
Speaker 2: Take his cameo in The Fresh Prince, for example.

85
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,960
Speaker 1: In season four, episode twenty five, the bank's family is

86
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,240
Speaker 1: offered a one million dollar profit by an unknown wealthy

87
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 1: client who wants to buy the family house, and spoiler

88
00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:50,440
Speaker 1: alert alert, that wealthy client turns out to be Donald

89
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,760
Speaker 1: Trump and his then wife Marla Maples.

90
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,840
Speaker 2: When the Donald enters the bank's living room, Carlton faints

91
00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 2: from excitement. Oh my God, and Hillary rushes over to

92
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,720
Speaker 2: give a classic Hillary compliment, Hillary.

93
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:17,000
Speaker 1: Banks, you know you look much richer in person. Will

94
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 1: offers to cut the grass every weekend for fifty thousand dollars.

95
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,840
Speaker 1: It seems like the only person who isn't excited to

96
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:28,360
Speaker 1: see Trump is Ashley. Thank you for ruining my life, Ashley,

97
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:29,719
Speaker 1: what did you do?

98
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,920
Speaker 2: Everybody's always blaming me for everything?

99
00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,680
Speaker 1: Actually was the woke one, Loki, Yeah, Ashley was the

100
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,279
Speaker 1: woke one, although I think within the context of the episode,

101
00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,360
Speaker 1: it was more like a personal problem that she had with.

102
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,520
Speaker 2: The Yeah, it wasn't ideological, but.

103
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,080
Speaker 1: In effect, you know, in the scene, definitely, I think

104
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,200
Speaker 1: it was still helpful to show one person that wasn't

105
00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,320
Speaker 1: completely doting over Donald Trump. I do think that, like

106
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,720
Speaker 1: so many sitcoms, had a tendency to bring somebody in

107
00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 1: and make a big fuss about it, a big ado

108
00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,920
Speaker 1: about who that person was, and making sure the people

109
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 1: knew who it was, because I guess at that time

110
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,839
Speaker 1: most people who were watching were going to know who

111
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,119
Speaker 1: Donald Trump was, and when he walked in, they didn't

112
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,840
Speaker 1: really need the it's Donald Trump walking in, yeah, and

113
00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:17,880
Speaker 1: then what they stilled it, But they still did it.

114
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,080
Speaker 2: They had the live audience clap, which I know is

115
00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,560
Speaker 2: like time to clap now, But it's interesting too because

116
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,200
Speaker 2: if you notice Philip Banks, the dad and the fresh prince,

117
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,560
Speaker 2: he shakes Trump's hand, Hillary shakes his hand, Carlton Fates,

118
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,280
Speaker 2: Will's trying to get it to Kay on the side,

119
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,920
Speaker 2: Ashley's like openly hostile. But the wife, un Viv, the

120
00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,160
Speaker 2: light skinned one, she just kind of stands there. And

121
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,480
Speaker 2: so in a podcast interview she did she said that

122
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,160
Speaker 2: she refused to shake his hand, which I was like,

123
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,039
Speaker 2: I don't know how much of this is just like

124
00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,440
Speaker 2: going back and like, oh yeah, like I knew about

125
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,280
Speaker 2: Trump back then, even though he was doing some like

126
00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,279
Speaker 2: shisty stuff back then too. But I'm like, or was

127
00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,719
Speaker 2: it just like the the wives weren't shaking hands, you know,

128
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,200
Speaker 2: like was it really like, oh, I'm making a statement here, or.

129
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, some people try to retcon their own careers, and

130
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,720
Speaker 1: I don't know if she's doing that or not. But

131
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,800
Speaker 1: still she did it, so I guess the outcome is

132
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,320
Speaker 1: the outcome. And I Will also say I'm not mad

133
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,120
Speaker 1: at Will him asking for money. I'm not mad at

134
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 1: especially for cutting the grass, which might have been something

135
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,520
Speaker 1: he was already doing, right, and it was a lot

136
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,840
Speaker 1: of money he asked for. So I'm also like he

137
00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,400
Speaker 1: saw the man and what his usefulness was to him,

138
00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,200
Speaker 1: and he was trying to take advantage of that. So

139
00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:33,240
Speaker 1: kind of not mad at that.

140
00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I definitely think even the numbers of people

141
00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 2: who were in that scene only one person kind of

142
00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,880
Speaker 2: like standing up and saying like, I don't like this dude.

143
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,320
Speaker 2: It's kind of reflective of how people probably thought of

144
00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,160
Speaker 2: Trump back then. Like it's like, oh, he's rich, he

145
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,080
Speaker 2: must be like really smart and really good. And then

146
00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,880
Speaker 2: there's like the outliers like naw, this guy sucks actually,

147
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,280
Speaker 2: And I think that was probably mirroring greater society.

148
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 1: Well, and then that happened later on era that we

149
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,200
Speaker 1: were witnessed to Trump and his popularity the Apprentice era,

150
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,200
Speaker 1: because it was, you know, the same, like people doting

151
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 1: on him, you know, and he had done more in

152
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,360
Speaker 1: between those two eras when this episode air and then

153
00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,559
Speaker 1: when we were like watching The Apprentice, more had happened

154
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,560
Speaker 1: and people were still acting the same. I wonder do

155
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,040
Speaker 1: you think that the percentages were the same in terms

156
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,160
Speaker 1: of like a simple size if this was a simple

157
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,160
Speaker 1: size of a larger group of people like black people,

158
00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,760
Speaker 1: that it would still be like a one to five

159
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,920
Speaker 1: situation where it's like five four of the people are

160
00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 1: like doting on him and one of the people are like,

161
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,360
Speaker 1: I don't fuck with you, and I'm about to show it.

162
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:39,840
Speaker 1: I don't know.

163
00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,400
Speaker 2: I definitely was like, maybe there's more people in like

164
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:48,720
Speaker 2: the neutral ground than like openly hostile, because I know,

165
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,400
Speaker 2: I wasn't privy to all the wow shit he was doing.

166
00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,000
Speaker 2: I just knew that he was like a rich guy

167
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 2: who like made a big deal about having a golden toilet.

168
00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,920
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, sure.

169
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, but not like this is a bad guy, because

170
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,959
Speaker 2: you know, the way things were portrayed back then, it

171
00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:06,800
Speaker 2: wouldn't have gotten that deep.

172
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,319
Speaker 1: No, for you to think that, yeah, very surface.

173
00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you would have to be doing your own research,

174
00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,679
Speaker 2: which I was not, and I don't think a load people.

175
00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,600
Speaker 1: Were, and it was harder to do it internet researching

176
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,920
Speaker 1: like then, right, you had to really be passionate about

177
00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 1: this topic.

178
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,800
Speaker 2: The Fresh Prince episode is a far cry from the

179
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,840
Speaker 2: Blackish episode Please Baby Please, which was scheduled to air

180
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 2: February twenty seventh, twenty eighteen, but was shelld by ABC

181
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,320
Speaker 2: until August twenty twenty.

182
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,439
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty was such an interesting year, to.

183
00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,160
Speaker 2: Say the very least, so Trump himself didn't make a

184
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,160
Speaker 2: cameo in the Blackish episode, but Dre, the dad of

185
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,040
Speaker 2: the family, references him and b roll footage of Donald

186
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,440
Speaker 2: Trump plays as he's trying to explain Trump's election to

187
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,080
Speaker 2: his youngest son, Davante.

188
00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,200
Speaker 1: He calls Trump the shady King, and he blames him

189
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,880
Speaker 1: for dividing people and sees Trump's presidency as a backlash

190
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,400
Speaker 1: against the election of Barack Obama as the first black president.

191
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,720
Speaker 2: This particular episode was written after the Charlottesville rally, you know,

192
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 2: the one with tiki torches, which was shocking for a

193
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,920
Speaker 2: lot of people. This episode also touched on Colin Kaepernick's

194
00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,520
Speaker 2: kneeling during the national anthem, which Trump used as a

195
00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:19,920
Speaker 2: way to rile up his base.

196
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,720
Speaker 3: Would you love to see one of these NFL owners

197
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 3: when somebody disrespects our flag to say, get that son

198
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,760
Speaker 3: of a bitch off the field right now out He's fired.

199
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,120
Speaker 2: Members of the Johnson family talked about climate change, which

200
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 2: Trump denied, Trump's borderwall, and differences between white supremacy and

201
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,760
Speaker 2: black pride. So going from seeing the Fresh Prince how

202
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,320
Speaker 2: they reacted to him being on set to this black

203
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,680
Speaker 2: episode which is all about him really but not having

204
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,360
Speaker 2: him on set but you know Sean Bee roll of

205
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,680
Speaker 2: him and all that stuff. What do you see the

206
00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,280
Speaker 2: changes like reflective of those two episodes from these different

207
00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 2: eras from mid nineties to twenty twenty.

208
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,480
Speaker 1: Well one, Trump's not on the show, which I think

209
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,720
Speaker 1: is a statement in itself, like you didn't choose to

210
00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,000
Speaker 1: bring this person in. So that's a big difference between

211
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,480
Speaker 1: the two of them, because you're willing to pay somebody

212
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,840
Speaker 1: money to give them a cameo spot in your show,

213
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,520
Speaker 1: regardless of what the reaction to them once they get

214
00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,280
Speaker 1: on the show is. So he didn't get paid for this,

215
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,000
Speaker 1: They didn't choose to give him more time. But I

216
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 1: also think it was a teaching moment in terms of

217
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,960
Speaker 1: the Blackish episode. It was like a moment of glory

218
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,520
Speaker 1: for Trump in the Fresh Prince episode. So I think

219
00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,200
Speaker 1: that there is also an element of a shift in

220
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,800
Speaker 1: the way that sitcom storytelling happened because there were so

221
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,600
Speaker 1: many of these tropes like cameos, and Blackish still does

222
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,640
Speaker 1: cameos as well. But I think that their choice to

223
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,560
Speaker 1: tell the story about Trump in this way that's kind

224
00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 1: of pulled back from him, and it's more at a distance,

225
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,720
Speaker 1: is more of this contemporary time of storytelling in sitcoms.

226
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,560
Speaker 2: I thought it was telling too. It's like in The

227
00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,800
Speaker 2: Fresh Print's episode, he's a wealthy guy who can change

228
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,559
Speaker 2: his family's life even though the banks got money, like

229
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,960
Speaker 2: they did not need to move, but he has the

230
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,280
Speaker 2: ability to give them a lot of money and change

231
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 2: their lives as one family's lives. But in the telling

232
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,920
Speaker 2: in Blackish, it's like he's changing the whole country, Like

233
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 2: the whole family is like distirred by him for different reasons,

234
00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,600
Speaker 2: like the younger kids are worried about climate change, the

235
00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,160
Speaker 2: grandparents are looking at how like the white supremacists aren't

236
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,160
Speaker 2: afraid to show their faces in public anymore, as opposed

237
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,000
Speaker 2: to like the KKK who cover their faces. So it's

238
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,719
Speaker 2: like his influence between ninety five and twenty twenty is

239
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:42,040
Speaker 2: vastly different, right, Like it's more of an interpersonal exchange

240
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,240
Speaker 2: in The Fresh Prince versus like a societal change. In Blackish,

241
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,840
Speaker 2: Donald Trump was not influencing our lives as toddlers.

242
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's reflective of the skill of his impact, Yeah,

243
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,680
Speaker 1: has changed over time.

244
00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like ninety five, nothing Trump did was impacting us.

245
00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,359
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty different story. I think that was really indicative

246
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,239
Speaker 2: just of like how things have changed from then to now.

247
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,880
Speaker 1: Also indicative of the consensus of thought and how much

248
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,480
Speaker 1: like our ability to share thoughts in an easier way

249
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 1: than it was back in nineteen ninety five. That was

250
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,720
Speaker 1: their fresh friends, Yeah, because you know, it's so easy

251
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,000
Speaker 1: for us to exchange our ideas about how we feel

252
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,360
Speaker 1: about what's happening in the political world now, and the

253
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,280
Speaker 1: art that we create, especially the television that becomes these

254
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,640
Speaker 1: shared moments between society, is going to often be reflective

255
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,439
Speaker 1: of what the consensus and thought is, and of course

256
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,479
Speaker 1: that depends upon who the writers are, what their political

257
00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,120
Speaker 1: or social leanings may be. You know, they're the writers

258
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,199
Speaker 1: and the creators. Biases are going to show up in

259
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,880
Speaker 1: the storytelling as well, so it's going to be attuned

260
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,800
Speaker 1: to that and also attuned to like what your audience

261
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,160
Speaker 1: is probably going to want to hear. So you know,

262
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,160
Speaker 1: this is also going to affirm and be in alignment

263
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,480
Speaker 1: with what a lot of the audience for Blackish are

264
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 1: interested in, which is interesting because like the audiences are

265
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,600
Speaker 1: so for people, like the kinds of people who would

266
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,280
Speaker 1: have watched Fresh Prince versus Blackish. But it's like we

267
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,480
Speaker 1: get to see our evolution and thought and that's not

268
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,000
Speaker 1: a negative. It's just like as we learn things, you know,

269
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,200
Speaker 1: we change how we speak about them.

270
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:15,880
Speaker 2: I want to push back on that because I feel

271
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,200
Speaker 2: like the Blackish episode was the four White People, okay,

272
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,640
Speaker 2: and I think a lot of Blackish is for white

273
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 2: people because it's like explaining like how black people feel

274
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,760
Speaker 2: about certain things in like a way that's very like

275
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:28,920
Speaker 2: just like now, how you talk to other black people.

276
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:34,040
Speaker 2: Like for example, Dre talking to his infant son, was

277
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,240
Speaker 2: saying like something to the effect of Trump wants like

278
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,600
Speaker 2: black people to go back to being and then he

279
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 2: showed enslaved people, but he said, let's just call him

280
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 2: really cheap gardeners, Like he wouldn't even say like slave

281
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,360
Speaker 2: or slavery, which I thought was just like very strange,

282
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,160
Speaker 2: like no black person is going to censor themselves in

283
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 2: that way if they're speaking to other black people. Or

284
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,120
Speaker 2: even when he was talking to when Drey was talking

285
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,440
Speaker 2: to his dad, the grandpa in this show, Lawrence Fishburne,

286
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 2: he was giving like a history on like Black Pride

287
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 2: and you know the song Saint Loud, I'm Black and

288
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,520
Speaker 2: I'm proud, like giving like a history on that, and

289
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,320
Speaker 2: it's like black people do not need this in that

290
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,080
Speaker 2: like such like elementary one on one type of way.

291
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,440
Speaker 2: So it definitely felt like the Blackish episode was like, hey,

292
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 2: white people, like, we know, like you're experiencing economic anxiety,

293
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:24,800
Speaker 2: but treat us like people.

294
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 1: You know, That's what it was given to me. Well, one,

295
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,240
Speaker 1: I think he might be giving sitcoms storytelling a little

296
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,280
Speaker 1: bit too much credit because so many of those types

297
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,240
Speaker 1: of sitcoms are meant to be didactic, so they have

298
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,280
Speaker 1: moral they have morality and lessons wrapped up into them.

299
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,160
Speaker 1: So I actually don't think we disagree because I still

300
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,320
Speaker 1: think those two audiences are the same because I don't

301
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,840
Speaker 1: think Fresh Prince was written for black people either. I

302
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,000
Speaker 1: think it was written for general audiences, and that's why

303
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:51,880
Speaker 1: you have scenes with Trump able to come in the

304
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,040
Speaker 1: first place. Fresh Prince wasn't It was about a rich

305
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,400
Speaker 1: family and it has those elements wrapped up into it

306
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,280
Speaker 1: of the black struggle nearves. But like you know, it's

307
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,960
Speaker 1: the same things. I think that we criticize, or maybe

308
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,400
Speaker 1: not all the time criticized, but question about Blackish, where

309
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,360
Speaker 1: it's like, how can they be representative of all black people?

310
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,360
Speaker 1: You know, so many black people were in the situation

311
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,840
Speaker 1: that the people were fresh Prince were, but you know,

312
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 1: not one show is not going to represent like the

313
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 1: totality of like all black experiences. So I think I

314
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:21,920
Speaker 1: think we were like on the same page.

315
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And now that I think about it, the Blackish

316
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,560
Speaker 2: those they rich too. I feel like in the nineties,

317
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,680
Speaker 2: like being rich was like because that like mansion they show,

318
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,080
Speaker 2: like okay, but.

319
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,200
Speaker 1: Like they rich money, they got money.

320
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's like there's morals and I think in

321
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,040
Speaker 2: the blackst episode it was like the hashtag message that

322
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,320
Speaker 2: was kind of just like okay, girl, we get it

323
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 2: for me.

324
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 1: Isn't the Blackish family in California? I believe? So Yeah.

325
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,080
Speaker 2: Also just like the fact that ABC waited over two

326
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 2: years to release this episode because they thought it was

327
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,080
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know the for real, but

328
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,640
Speaker 2: there's a reason behind that. You know. In the in

329
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 2: the creator of Blackish, Kenya Bears, he was like, you know,

330
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,960
Speaker 2: not happy about that. He wanted to get this out

331
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,399
Speaker 2: he wanted to have this message heard, and ABC was like,

332
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,400
Speaker 2: not chill until like the racial reckoning of twenty twenty,

333
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,840
Speaker 2: and then like, okay, it can be out now because

334
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,200
Speaker 2: like people are walker now, I guess, even though I

335
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 2: don't think the Blackish episode was too spicy, but so.

336
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,520
Speaker 1: If one episode was, I'll be like, yeah, y'all doing

337
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:29,080
Speaker 1: that like that.

338
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't anything to me, but maybe I am

339
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,160
Speaker 2: more radical, but if you have a good take on it.

340
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 2: But so like in the Fresh Prince, there wouldn't even

341
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 2: be that conversation like oh, we can't have Donald Trump

342
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:43,840
Speaker 2: on this, we have to wait to release it, because

343
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 2: there wasn't anything for that, but ABC was.

344
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,959
Speaker 1: Like, let's wait two years, let it cool off. So

345
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 1: definitely different control of information. Yeah, and also shows like

346
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,760
Speaker 1: how much the network has a hand and what can

347
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,240
Speaker 1: be disseminated and when, but you know it can came

348
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:05,360
Speaker 1: out so and like these things are always relevant. So yeah, yeah,

349
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,400
Speaker 1: it was, yeah, because he was still doing the crazy

350
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 1: stuff when it came out. Yeah, and still lives to

351
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,080
Speaker 1: this day, to this day. And on that note, we

352
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,600
Speaker 1: got to go to a break. But on the other side,

353
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 1: we'll be talking about how these allusions to Donald Trump

354
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:20,119
Speaker 1: show up in music.

355
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,000
Speaker 2: Okay, So the forum where I've witnessed Trump get the

356
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 2: most shout outs is hip hop, and the difference between

357
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 2: songs that came out before Trump was president and the

358
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,360
Speaker 2: ones that came out after he was elected is stark.

359
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,840
Speaker 1: I know one song we were digging to in middle

360
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 1: school by Atlanta's on Young Jock is going Down.

361
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,440
Speaker 2: Oh you know, I was at the school dance get

362
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,720
Speaker 2: in it, And it's such a good example of the

363
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,960
Speaker 2: types of ways black folks referenced Trump when he was

364
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,960
Speaker 2: just a really rich guy. He was like aspirational and

365
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:00,440
Speaker 2: was shorthand for six sucessful.

366
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, to call yourself the black Donald Trump, you gotta

367
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:04,159
Speaker 1: really think highly of.

368
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,679
Speaker 2: Him, And he wasn't the only Atlanta rapper to do so.

369
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,800
Speaker 2: In his twenty eleven song Trump Gez, heils his own

370
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,320
Speaker 2: success and labels himself the Trump of the hood. He says,

371
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 2: richest nigga in my hood, call me Donald Trump the

372
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 2: type of nigga to count my money while I smoke

373
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 2: a blunt period, and Trump responded in a tweet, Oh

374
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 2: now another rapper doing a Trump song Young Gez Trump lyrics?

375
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 1: Why aren't these guys paying me.

376
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 2: Great impression, Katie, thank you. Songs of this era were

377
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 2: definitely giving. I'm successful now so successful. In fact, let

378
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 2: me name drop someone I see as the peak of success.

379
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,119
Speaker 1: Started from the bottom. Now I'm Trump.

380
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 2: Literally in Lil Wayne's Ice Cream, he says I was

381
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 2: in the trenches, now I'm in the.

382
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: Trump, referencing Trump Tower in New York.

383
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,399
Speaker 2: Which Trump infamously proclaimed was the tallest building in New

384
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,879
Speaker 2: York after the Twin Towers went down during nine to eleven.

385
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,160
Speaker 2: But that's neither here nor there. Other pre election songs

386
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 2: mentioned Trump Tower as a marker of success. You've got

387
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,159
Speaker 2: Jay Z's success in which he both's apartment at the

388
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,639
Speaker 2: Trump I've only slept in once.

389
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 1: Nicki Minaj said total meet me at the Trump. Evanka

390
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:13,240
Speaker 1: in the Flawless.

391
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,359
Speaker 2: Remix sounds like these rappers are a revolving door at

392
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 2: Trump Tower. What do you think it is about a

393
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 2: huge building with the Trump name emblazon on it that

394
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 2: is great fodder for these rappers?

395
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,639
Speaker 1: Well, I just think one it just functions as a

396
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 1: really good symbol, Like you have this thing that represents

397
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: Trump that isn't Trump himself, that you have access to.

398
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 1: So that's an easy way into Trump's wealth and glamour.

399
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: And it has his name emblazoned on it, so the stature,

400
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: the image, it just becomes like the perfect symbol for it.

401
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 1: And of course, like we use symbols and storytelling all

402
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 1: the time, so I think it's convenient in that way. Two,

403
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 1: not to get too signifiant, but it's also a phallic symbol,

404
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,679
Speaker 1: I must say, as a building, it is a symbol

405
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 1: of this like patriarchal situation. It's imposing, it's a large

406
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 1: you know. So I think that like that goes along

407
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: with it if you want to go a little deeper

408
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 1: into signifying. But I also think as an outgrowth of

409
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: who Trump himself is, a lot of these rappers had

410
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 1: this money over everything perspective, and so it was really

411
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 1: easy to slough off all of the other things that

412
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 1: came with that. And I think that's not just a

413
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: Trump thing, Like we saw rappers in so many other

414
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 1: instances shout out to our look up to people who

415
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 1: have trash morals, like people who are like drug kingpins,

416
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 1: who are like mob bosses and things like that, who

417
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 1: commit all these other crimes. So when you turn this

418
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 1: person into a caricature, who's just a display of wealth

419
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: instead of somebody who has a whole entire life who

420
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 1: has done other things in it that are very complicated

421
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: for whatever reasons they are. It's like, let's just turn

422
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 1: a blind eye to that and then go and look

423
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 1: at this person as a wat of cash. Yeah, instead,

424
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 1: So I think that came into play when it came

425
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: to Trump Towers, like it was easy to look at

426
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: Trump as just another person who could be the person

427
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:14,199
Speaker 1: who was symbolizing their money over everything attitude and the

428
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 1: fact that he had a building to contain in house.

429
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: That attitude was just like perfect.

430
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: I do think it's related to mainstream hip hop's like

431
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 2: bravado and obsession with being a winner. In capitalism, everyone

432
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 2: wants to be a boss. For most rappers, they know

433
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 2: what it's like to be exploited, and they relish being

434
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 2: on the other side of capitalism's equation, like let me.

435
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: Be in the club. I want to be in the

436
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: capitalist club too.

437
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 2: Girl Nelly said it best in Country Grammar, Bill Gates,

438
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 2: Donald Trump, let me and looking up all these lyrics,

439
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 2: there's just like Trump Trump, Trump, Trump Trump, Like he's

440
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 2: getting so much free marketing advertisement and that's been my

441
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 2: beef with a lot of rappers is like shouting out

442
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 2: like tom Ford and Hill Figure and like all these

443
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 2: like brands. I'm like, are they paying you to do this?

444
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 2: Hip hop is so influential and I don't want to

445
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: go too far and being like rappers are the reason

446
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: why Trump has been president, but they did give him

447
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 2: like a lot of like touchdowns for people sad you

448
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Like, oh, yeah, like why he

449
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 2: said he was in.

450
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 1: The church and now you know Trump? Who's this Trump guy?

451
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 1: The thing is too Trump doesn't have receipts, and y'all

452
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: talking about him and all this money stuff like, oh

453
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: he has receipts and they're terrible. Does That's what I'm saying,

454
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: Like for you to be able to say, yeah, they're bankrupts,

455
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 1: like all of like this's not working out for you.

456
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: So are you saying you're gonna have issues with your

457
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: financial situation? The interesting thing about Trump though, because rappers

458
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: do have this history of like putting so much attention

459
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 1: into adding things into their work that they're probably not

460
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 1: getting paid for. I'm not in their pockets, so I

461
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: don't fully know, but I know a lot of the

462
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 1: time when they're calling out things like alcohol, brands are

463
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: really doomssed for being in them that they're not getting

464
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: money from a lot of that, or bags or shoes.

465
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: But Trump doesn't have a product, so at least these

466
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: other things that they're shouting out. It's like you.

467
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 2: Could presumably be using these things and really like them.

468
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 1: You could presumably be using them, you could presumably get

469
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: brand deals. It's just like there's an actual physical object

470
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 1: that goes along with it and something that may get

471
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 1: you some returns in some way or another. Because if

472
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: you shout out alcohol a lot, maybe alcohol becomes part

473
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 1: of your brand. And so many people, so many celebrities, musicians,

474
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: different kinds of artists have alcohol deals. Now, that is

475
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 1: showing what's brands say for you is easily alcohol. You

476
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: know you're not a children's brand. We know you talk

477
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: about alcohol, so it's easy for you to get a

478
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 1: brand deal in the future. Versus Trump, you ain't getting nothing.

479
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: What you're getting just like.

480
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: What's the payback for that being in the same conversation

481
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 2: with him, I guess, But really I feel like he's

482
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: getting more than the rappers are.

483
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I agree with you, because like girl. All

484
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: this arrogance he has, it's like, y'all, it's feeding y'all,

485
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: confirming it.

486
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: I will say Trump is easy to rhyme.

487
00:24:53,960 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, bump hump, bump rump crump. Are we sixty?

488
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, So that is one beef. I have ways rappers,

489
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: not just with Trump with the products, but like you said,

490
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 2: like you could get a brand deal, you could just

491
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 2: really love Michael Core's.

492
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: I don't know. So pre election songs have similar themes

493
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: of equating Trump to success and rappers frequenting Trump Tower

494
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,479
Speaker 1: because that's what rich and powerful people do. What are

495
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: the post election songs sounding like?

496
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 2: Good question, and I'll give you an answer after the break.

497
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 2: So Trump has had some messed up politics.

498
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 1: For a while. Who could forget that? Trump placed full

499
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 1: page advertisements in four New York City newspapers, including The

500
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: New York Times, calling for the death penalty for the

501
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: Central Park five yeah.

502
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 2: And in the nineteen seventies, the US Department of Justice

503
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 2: sued Donald Trump, his father, and Trump management, alleging the

504
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: Trumps engaged in racial discriminate against black folks in their

505
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: Brooklyn apartments. But although he's been well known for decades,

506
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: most people weren't really tuned into him like they were

507
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 2: after he announced his intentions for running for president and

508
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: really leaned into his pro white supremacy bag.

509
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: And he was never good in the hood. Again, basically

510
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: we saw them true colors.

511
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 2: Jay Z, who as you recall, once bribed about having

512
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: a vacant apartment in Trump Towers, later wrapped I got

513
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 2: your president, tweeting I don't even meet with him.

514
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: I forgot about Trump's tweets.

515
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: The tweet in question, somebody please inform jay Z that

516
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: because of my policies, black employment has just been reported

517
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: to be at the.

518
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: Lowest rate ever recorded.

519
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 2: That was in response to jay Z telling Van Jones

520
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: that it wasn't okay for Trump to say terrible things

521
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: about black people despite black employment rates being low. Jay

522
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 2: Z said, quote, it's not about money. At the end

523
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: of the day. Money doesn't equate to happiness.

524
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: It doesn't. That's missing the whole point, which is pretty

525
00:26:58,400 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 1: antithetical to a lot of his message.

526
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: Hey, jay Z contains multitudes.

527
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: I guess yeah, he's definitely entitled to change his views

528
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 1: on Trump.

529
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: I think YG's FDT or F. Donald Trump is the

530
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: epitome of how hip hop doesn't really mess with Trump

531
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 2: like that anymore. Me and all my people's we always

532
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: thought he was straight influential MF when it came to

533
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: the business. But now since we know how you really feel,

534
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 2: this how we feel fuck Donald Trump. Yg raps accusing

535
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: Trump of being racist.

536
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: Quite the evolution from simply saying his name being a flex.

537
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, I imagine a lot of these rappers cringe at

538
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 2: some of their old lyrics. They weren't looking at him

539
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: as a political figure, just a rich person they aspired

540
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: to be Like.

541
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: I mean, we all moved through time and got to

542
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: grow up at some point, so I feel like it's

543
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: just indicative of how we learned more over this time period,

544
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: for sure.

545
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 2: And I think being pro Trump now is like as

546
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: a black person is like considered edgy, as like being

547
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: uhtimately anti Trump back then was considered like, oh, he's

548
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: on a different wave. But yeah, I don't think Trump

549
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: can go back to being all the way good. No,

550
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 2: you'll have just sound drastic.

551
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: I mean, what would that be.

552
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: Give me an example, I think if he gave reparations,

553
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 2: he'd be good because niggas was happy about that little

554
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: stimmy out of.

555
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: His own pocket or just you know, setting up a

556
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: situation for it just government. Now the bar is a

557
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: love child, not the stimmy. I just caught that.

558
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: Niggas is happy they were, And I mean, of course

559
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 2: some rappers still like him, like Kanye, like Kanye, but

560
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 2: the overall hip hop sentiment these days are similar to

561
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: that of Joey Badass.

562
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: You got the gut squeeze Donald Trump.

563
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 2: Now it's time for roll credits. This segment where we

564
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: give credit to a person, place, or thing that we

565
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: encountered during the week.

566
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: Katie, who, what, where or when would you like to

567
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: give credit to today?

568
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 2: I would like to give credit to changing your mind

569
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: when you get new information. I think sometimes people get

570
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: like really stuck in, like oh I said this publicly

571
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 2: and so I can't like shift in my attitude. But

572
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: once you have more information, your mind can change. And

573
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: I think that's a positive thing. And I think people

574
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: should not try to be like, oh, gotcha, you changed

575
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 2: your mind, because like it's natural to like grow up,

576
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: like we see in this episode with the rappers and Trump,

577
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: it's like natural to like to change your mind once

578
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: you get more information.

579
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: So would like to give credit to that. I would

580
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: like to give credit to this week artists who support

581
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: other artists. It can be really hard, you know, sharing

582
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: your work, making a living off of it if that's

583
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: what you choose to do. And it's really nice to

584
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: have encouragement and support in different ways, even if it's

585
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: not monetary support, if it's you know, just encouragement and

586
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: like saying you got this, you know, sending a text

587
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: message here and there, you know, try to see how

588
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: you can help a person with their work, are and

589
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: involving in their work. Really grateful for those kind of people,

590
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: and it's like really nice to see other people do

591
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: it too, Like when you go out to spaces and

592
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: you see people clapping and cheering for people when they're

593
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: doing things where they're clearly like pushing themselves to put

594
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: their art out in the world, and you see that like, Okay,

595
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: if I do this, there will be other people out

596
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: there who will root for me as well. So that's

597
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: why I want to give credit to today.

598
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: I love that and with that, we will see you

599
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: next week.

600
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: While on Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather

601
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: Friends Media. This episode was written by Eves Jeffco and

602
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: Katie Mitchell. It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison.

603
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also

604
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: send us an email at hello at on Theme dot Show.

605
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: Head to on Theme dot Show to check out the

606
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: show notes for episodes. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

607
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

608
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: your favorite shows