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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast. The questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zeph and Beast

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Jamie, Hey, Caitlyn. I was thinking that we should

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Speaker 2: change the name of the podcast to to what fuck?

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Speaker 1: Wait, that's so pertinent, that's.

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Speaker 2: So the fucktal Cast, the FU Cast.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's certain episodes that have sort

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Speaker 1: of devolved into the cast over the years.

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Speaker 2: True, why not just commit anyway? That was the brilliant

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Speaker 2: idea I had for the intro of this episode. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: Or sorry, welcome to fuck Welcome to the fuctal Cast.

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Speaker 1: I yeah, I was gonna do a play on the

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Speaker 1: ending of the movie and keep making us to retake

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Speaker 1: it over and over and over and then how as, oh, sure, sure,

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Speaker 1: this is why we should we should we should really

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Speaker 1: circle up with uh with our intros. Look, this is

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Speaker 1: the fuck Deal Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my.

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Speaker 2: Name is Caitlin Deronte. This is our show where we

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Speaker 2: examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel

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Speaker 2: Test as a jumping off point and Jamie, what's that well.

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Speaker 1: The Bechdel Test is a media metric created by friend

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Speaker 1: of the show Alison Bechtel. It was originally appeared as

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Speaker 1: a joke in her comic collection dis to Watch Out

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Speaker 1: For as a commentary on how there were never romantic

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Speaker 1: relationships between women in movies, but has since been adapted

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Speaker 1: to a more mainstream metric. There's many versions of this test.

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Speaker 1: The one we use requires that there are two characters

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Speaker 1: of a marginalized gender with names who speak to each

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Speaker 1: other about something other than a man for a meaningful

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Speaker 1: exchange of dialogue and spoiler alert that doesn't happened many

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Speaker 1: times in this movie, but there's one exchange in particular

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Speaker 1: that I find very delightful.

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Speaker 2: I think I know one. You're talking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a great Bechtel test pass in the movie

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Speaker 1: we are covering today, which is twenty twenty three's American Fiction.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, I don't know. Over the years, I

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Speaker 1: think that like, we don't cover a ton of recent

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Speaker 1: movies anymore. But once we get over like the two

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Speaker 1: year past the two year mark, it's time, it's fair game.

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Speaker 1: And so here We are directed by core Jefferson in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, adapted from the novel Erasure by Percival Everett.

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Speaker 1: And we have a wonderful returning guest to talk about

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Speaker 1: it with us.

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Speaker 2: We certainly do. He's an audio producer, host of the

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Speaker 2: podcasts Wait for It and Leaving the Theater, and you

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Speaker 2: remember him from our episode on Hitch. It's Ronald Young Junior.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to

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Speaker 3: be here for this one. I am going to roast

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Speaker 3: white folks a lot over the course of the amount

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Speaker 3: of time.

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Speaker 4: I hope everyone is ready for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Feeling great, feeling great. And I also love when we

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Speaker 1: have a guest come back for the second time with

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Speaker 1: like an extremely different movie, like.

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Speaker 4: This is not a romantic comedy.

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Speaker 1: This is not a romantic comedy. And there's not a

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Speaker 1: single moment of Kevin James. There's not a single hitch

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Speaker 1: in American fiction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, we're so thrilled to have you back.

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Speaker 3: Glad to be here. I was excited. I had such

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Speaker 3: a good time in our first conversation. Is one of

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Speaker 3: those things where when it was over, I was like, hey,

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Speaker 3: I'll talk about anything y'all want to talk about one.

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Speaker 3: I love talking about movies, and I love the way

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Speaker 3: that y'all talk about movies. So I'm glad that you

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Speaker 3: I'm glad that you you let me back in here.

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Speaker 4: And I hope there's a third time. Depending on how

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Speaker 4: this time goes.

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Speaker 1: We could find a weird third one.

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Speaker 2: Let's schedule it right now. Yeah, done?

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Speaker 4: All right, we're gonna do Tonny Tarco see the.

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Speaker 1: Actually we haven't done Donnie Darko. I feel like it

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Speaker 1: would have happened by now, but I've always wanted to

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Speaker 1: do like a Patreon theme of like Harvey and Donnie

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Speaker 1: Darko back to back, just imaginary ragers or something interesting.

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Speaker 2: I was like, wait, what's Harvey again?

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Speaker 1: I don't know why. I saw it a lot when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid. Anyways, anyways, Yes, we're here to

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Speaker 1: talk about American fiction. Ronald. What is your history with

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Speaker 1: this movie?

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Speaker 3: I saw it when it came out. I was unfamiliar

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Speaker 3: with Core Jefferson's work. This was my window into it.

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Speaker 3: Huge fan of Jeffrey Wright. So I saw the preview,

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Speaker 3: and the premise of the preview is what got me

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Speaker 3: into the movie theater seat and sitting down and watching it,

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Speaker 3: I realized it's so much more than the premise. And

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Speaker 3: watching it the second time to get ready for this episode,

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Speaker 3: I realized that there's when I realized that the premise

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Speaker 3: is kind of not the whole purpose of the film.

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Speaker 3: It made me lean in for the part to the

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Speaker 3: movie that I really really enjoy which is more of

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Speaker 3: the commentary about being a black creative by a black creative,

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Speaker 3: which I just I enjoyed. I'm so ready to talk

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 2: Mmm, hell yeah, Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie.

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Speaker 1: Uh, I guess similar for a recent movie. I saw it.

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Speaker 1: I saw it, and I really enjoyed it when it

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Speaker 1: came out. Yeah. I also, this was like my introduction

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Speaker 1: to I think I think I've read Cord because Court

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Speaker 1: Jefferson like started as a journalist and then worked in

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Speaker 1: TV and then worked and then became a director, and

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Speaker 1: I like from I think I've read him on like,

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Speaker 1: oh he was on Gker one point out bekay, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at his Wikipedia page, So I think I read

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Speaker 1: him in college. He has a kind of incredible TV resume.

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Speaker 1: He wrote on Season of Succession, The Good Place, Station

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Speaker 1: eleven Watchman, So I had experienced his work without realizing

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Speaker 1: it was his work, and then saw this, and then

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Speaker 1: this movie also got me into personal Everett as a writer.

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Speaker 1: So I went and read this book, Erasure, and a

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Speaker 1: couple of his other books he wrote James last year,

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Speaker 1: and I also randomly read one of his books from

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Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. I am not Sydney Poitier, and

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Speaker 1: he's just like an amazing writer. And this is a

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Speaker 1: very fascinating adaptation of a book that I think Eraser

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Speaker 1: like it would be a really difficult book to like

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Speaker 1: straight ahead adapt and I think Coort Jefferson did a

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Speaker 1: really awesome job of sort of like honing in, especially

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Speaker 1: on more of like the family stuff that sort of

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Speaker 1: populates this story. Anyways, excited to talk about it, Yeah, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: what's your history with American fiction?

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Speaker 2: I also saw it when it came out. It was

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Speaker 2: one of my favorite movies of that year. It was

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Speaker 2: the movie that I was hoping would win Best Picture

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Speaker 2: that year because it was nominated. Did not win Best Picture,

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Speaker 2: but I think it won for a Best Adapted Screenplay.

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Speaker 4: I remember did Yeah, and he gave an incredible speech.

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Speaker 4: Incredible speech.

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Speaker 3: It's about financing films, which I thought was fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh right, yes.

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Speaker 2: And also this is how I learned that Cord Jefferson

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Speaker 2: is hot, so hot.

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Speaker 1: Yes, people are talking about this by people.

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Speaker 4: Do you bekately talk.

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Speaker 2: It's come up. It's come up. And that's kind of

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Speaker 2: the most important takeaway from the film, that Cord Jefferson

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Speaker 2: is hot.

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Speaker 1: I think it is important that hot people are winning Oscars.

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Speaker 1: I meane actors obviously, but like hot writers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's important. Let writers be hot. I've been seeing

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Speaker 2: it for years. Yeah, but they won't let us.

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Speaker 1: That's why we look like this.

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Speaker 3: I actually have to dial down my hotness in order

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Speaker 3: to actually try to become a successful writer.

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Speaker 1: Seriously. To be seriously, you have to look like a shit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah when I can.

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Speaker 1: That's why I tell myself on bad days, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: people are gonna really respect.

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Speaker 2: You today, exactly.

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Speaker 1: You will. You will not distract. No.

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Speaker 2: But in all seriousness, I love this movie. I thought

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Speaker 2: it was so funny and I cannot wait to talk

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Speaker 2: about it. It's such a rich text. And I guess

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Speaker 2: let's take a quick break and then we'll come back

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Speaker 2: for the recap.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're back.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here's the recap. We meet Selonious Ellison, who goes

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Speaker 2: by Monk in reference to Thelonious Monk played by Jeffrey Wright.

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Speaker 2: He's a literature professor who is suspended for it seems

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Speaker 2: like several incidents and mostly calling out white students for

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Speaker 2: their white fragility. Seems to be the case. He's also

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Speaker 2: a published author and has written several novels.

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Speaker 1: Which I think, I don't know if this is like

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Speaker 1: from the book or not, but whenever you catch one

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Speaker 1: of his fake book titles, like his fake pretentious book titles,

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Speaker 1: they're really great. I think the one you see the

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Speaker 1: most is the has Conundrum, and you're like, the hell

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Speaker 1: is that? And it's like huge, awesome.

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Speaker 3: I was going to say, I wanted to note that

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Speaker 3: the suspension at the college. What I wanted to point

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Speaker 3: out was how frustrating that scene was for me to watch.

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Speaker 3: But then on top of that, it was presented in

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Speaker 3: a way that felt real world frustrating, which is how

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Speaker 3: I know it was well done, because I said, that

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Speaker 3: is exactly how that conversation would go and has gone

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Speaker 3: in a lot of ways. But it made sense that

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Speaker 3: this would be the man that is who does not

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Speaker 3: believe in race step much but is also writing very

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Speaker 3: pretentious tomes called the Wouldn't You Say?

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Speaker 1: The Husk Connu the conundrum here, just like it looks

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Speaker 1: like it's seven hundred pages and you're like, yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: kind of awesome, but he's also well, we know this guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that scene was That scene was great, especially like how

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Speaker 1: it is very clear that one of the other writers

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Speaker 1: in the room is extremely jealous of him. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: that the airport swipe, You're like, oh, it's just so good.

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Speaker 2: That's the I think that's the same actor who's in

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Speaker 2: He's in like the elevator scene in Speed Whoa, And

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Speaker 2: he's the one who like keeps pushing pull button. I

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Speaker 2: think he might also be in Oh God, it's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, it sounds like, you know, he's in a

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Speaker 2: lot of things. I think he's also been in a

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Speaker 2: few like David Lynch movies. Anyway, a quick appearance by him.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, Monk, he's a published author. He has also

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Speaker 2: written a recent novel that he's having a hard time selling.

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Speaker 2: His agent, Arthur played by John Ortiz, tells him that

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Speaker 2: publishers are looking for books by black authors that are

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Speaker 2: about very stereotypical black American experience is like tragedy, porn

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Speaker 2: kind of stuff, and they find that Monk's writing is

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Speaker 2: too smart, sophisticated, academic, that kind of stuff. Monk then

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Speaker 2: goes to Boston for a book.

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Speaker 1: This is a great New England piece of cinema. Underrated.

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Speaker 2: The dunkin Donuts representation. You see it almost right away.

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Speaker 1: It's my first note as like authenticity, authenticity, and you

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Speaker 1: know that coffee is rash, it's so bad, but he

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Speaker 1: needs it.

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Speaker 2: He needs it well because the book I didn't I

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Speaker 2: have not read the book that this is adapted from,

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Speaker 2: but I read the Wikipedia Scholarly Journal. It's synopsis in DC.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, oh that would have been interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that, I guess. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why it was changed. Yeah, because Cord Jefferson is from Tucson,

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Speaker 1: which does come up with like via the Sterlingah. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why they chose Boston. I forgot that was that.

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Speaker 1: My other connection to this movie is the some of

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Speaker 1: the scenes were shot in the like two tons over

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Speaker 1: from my mom, and so her and all her friends

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Speaker 1: were doing slow drives to see if they could catch

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Speaker 1: a look at Jeffrey Wright. They're all wordy for Jeffrey Wright.

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Speaker 1: They were not successful.

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Speaker 2: Damn, I'm so sorry to hear that. So Monk goes

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Speaker 2: to Boston for this book festival to be on a

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Speaker 2: panel with other authors. Also at this festival is Centaura

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Speaker 2: Golden played by Ray, who has written a book called

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Speaker 2: Weese Lives in the Ghetto that seems to be about

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Speaker 2: the stereotypical black characters that these publishers want. Monk goes

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Speaker 2: to an event where she reads a passage from her

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Speaker 2: book and he is rolling his eyes. Monk then visits

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Speaker 2: his family, who lives in the Boston area. We meet

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Speaker 2: his sister, Lisa, played by Tracy Ellis Ross.

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Speaker 1: My favorite character, and one of the only things I

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Speaker 1: don't like about this movie is how quickly and mellow

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Speaker 1: dramatically she exits the movie. I'm just like, she's such

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Speaker 1: a good character, and I feel like even if she

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Speaker 1: had to die to advance the protagonist narrative. I didn't

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Speaker 1: like the piano music heart attack. I was like, come on,

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Speaker 1: you got Tracy Ellis Ross, don't do this to her.

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Speaker 3: I will also say I think that I had the

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Speaker 3: same issue because she brought for me. I love Tracy

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Speaker 3: Ellis Ross. I've loved her since girlfriends. But what bothers

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Speaker 3: me is that she sews up here and she brings

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Speaker 3: so much to the film, and I'm settling in ready

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Speaker 3: for a whole.

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Speaker 4: Performance from her.

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Speaker 3: And the only thing that I felt okay about is

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Speaker 3: that when she dies is the handoff from her to

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Speaker 3: Sterling K Brown in terms of the relationship between Cliff

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Speaker 3: and Monk was done so well on the beach, in

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Speaker 3: that scene with them cussing out their neighbor Philip, it

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Speaker 3: was done. That's the only part that might that makes

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Speaker 3: it okay that she's gone was watching them team up

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Speaker 3: to be like.

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Speaker 4: You, Philip, get out of here. We hate you.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, okay, so these are real brothers.

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Speaker 3: They like really they really understand each other. But that

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Speaker 3: was the only thing I agree with you.

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Speaker 4: I hated that she was gone from the movie.

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Speaker 1: Well talk, I guess that was like a not a

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Speaker 1: huge change from the book, but the change that was

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Speaker 1: made was kind of interesting. I don't know, it's so

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Speaker 1: I love adaptation talk.

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Speaker 2: We'll get to it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I was like, she she's so compelling and

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Speaker 1: she's so clearly embodied like an eldest daughter. Yes, And

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Speaker 1: then in that same scene where you're like, whoa, this

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Speaker 1: is so cool, and then she dies right and she

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Speaker 1: drops dad right in front of you, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: this is a nasty piece of work. Yes, I mean

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Speaker 1: there's there's many women. There's many like well written women

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Speaker 1: in this story. That's not even the issue. I just

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Speaker 1: she was immediately my favorite character. And then in the

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Speaker 1: same scene she dies, Oh.

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Speaker 2: My God, like her Roe versus Wade joke and the

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Speaker 2: fact that she wrote her own eulogy, yes, at her

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Speaker 2: funeral and it's about how she wanted to fuck Iatris

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Speaker 2: Elba and Russell Krau like.

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Speaker 4: So funny thrusts.

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Speaker 2: Elba such a funny character.

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Speaker 1: It was like, come on, couldn't she have lived like

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Speaker 1: twenty more minutes? Come on? Always Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, we meet Lisa. She's a doctor who has recently

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Speaker 2: gotten divorced. We meet monks mother, Agnes played by Leslie

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Speaker 2: is it you Gams Oogams. She seems like she might

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Speaker 2: be showing signs of dementia. We also meet their housekeeper,

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Speaker 2: Lorraine played by Mara Lucretia Taylor. Monk and Lisa we

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Speaker 2: get a better sense of their relationship. They talk about

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Speaker 2: various family dynamics some past family drama, including how their

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Speaker 2: father was very closed off, and will learn that Monk

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Speaker 2: tends to sort of follow in those footsteps. They also

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Speaker 2: try to figure out what to do about their mother's health.

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Speaker 1: That's another thing I really appreciate about this movie is

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Speaker 1: how like, without bonking you over the head with it,

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Speaker 1: it feels like a really well written example of how

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Speaker 1: like every kid has a different set of parents, and

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Speaker 1: like all of the sibling alliances and I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like whatever, like everyone recognizes their version of that, but

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Speaker 1: how both of his siblings are like rolling their eyes

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Speaker 1: or like, oh you thought our dad was faithful?

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Speaker 2: What the hell are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's probably because he was your face, like you

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Speaker 1: were his favorite. Yeah, I just yeah, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: oh I feel seen and I don't like it.

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Speaker 3: There was a line that he said too, he said

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Speaker 3: enemy see everything and friends only see what they want

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Speaker 3: or something along those lines. That's Uh says to Monk

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Speaker 3: at that point, and I thought it was.

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Speaker 4: Very very well.

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Speaker 3: There's several good lines in here, and I'll highlight them

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Speaker 3: as we get through them, but this was starting there.

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Speaker 3: I'm just like, man, you are some bars in here.

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Speaker 3: Mister Jefferson.

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Speaker 1: Sterling K. Brown is so good in this movie. I

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Speaker 1: forget if he was nominated for Supporting Actor, but if

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Speaker 1: he wasn't, he should have been.

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Speaker 2: He's so good in this I don't think he was.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, though I know he's great in it.

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Speaker 1: Oh he was nominated, Yes.

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Speaker 4: Sterling K. Brown was nominated for an Academy Award. He

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Speaker 4: did not win.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't like that.

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Speaker 2: So they're talking about what to do about their mother's health.

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Speaker 2: They think maybe they should hire a nurse, but that

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Speaker 2: would be expensive. They would have to sell their beach house.

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Speaker 2: And then Lisa suddenly suffers a heart attack and dies.

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Speaker 1: Can I say how she dies in the book because

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Speaker 1: it does feel I think it does, because this is

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Speaker 1: one of the plot points in the movie that feels

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Speaker 1: so jarring, and even people who love this movie are like,

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Speaker 1: why did that happen? In the book, she works at

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Speaker 1: a women's clinic, which I forget if she works at

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Speaker 1: a more general hospital.

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Speaker 2: In the movie.

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Speaker 4: It's a clinic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a family planning clinic.

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Speaker 1: So in the book, which is published in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one, she is killed when an anti abortion person

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Speaker 1: comes in with a gun and she's shot at work,

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Speaker 1: so it is like an equally sudden death, but it

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Speaker 1: is a more shocking like she's murdered. It's not a

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Speaker 1: freak like, oh my gosh, I had a heart because

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Speaker 1: I'm stressed. Question mark, which is like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk about adaptation because I think it

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Speaker 1: just works. I don't know, because I understand that that

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Speaker 1: would like really kind of bring this movie to a

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Speaker 1: grinding halt very very early on, because her death is

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Speaker 1: sudden no matter what. So that is that is like

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Speaker 1: a pretty big change, even though it doesn't really affect

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Speaker 1: the later events of the movie, it's a pretty big change.

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Speaker 3: I think hearing that definitely would have put more emphasis

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Speaker 3: on her death in a way that was not necessary

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Speaker 3: for the movie to move forward. But I would also

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Speaker 3: argue that I don't think. I think, except for the

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Speaker 3: ways in which that she was holding the family together

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Speaker 3: and the way that the family then splits apart with

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Speaker 3: her death is probably the most important part about it.

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Speaker 3: So you had to remove that, like a pin from

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Speaker 3: the wheel, if you will, in order for things to

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Speaker 3: kind of go in the direction that they're going. But

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Speaker 3: if it would have been like a more dramatic because

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Speaker 3: if you think about it, even the way that she died,

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Speaker 3: like when we watch her feet on the gurney and

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Speaker 3: he's looking through the hospital window, is already traumatic enough.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what it would have been like if

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Speaker 3: it had been more like grizzly and political in that way.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Well, I wonder, and this is pure speculation from my part,

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Speaker 2: but I wonder if coord Jefferson just didn't want to

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Speaker 2: show violence against a black woman on screen.

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Speaker 1: Also that yeah, right in the very early parts of

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Speaker 1: the movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, hm, because, as various characters comment on throughout the movie,

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Speaker 2: like these heavily stereotyped portrayals of black characters in movies

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Speaker 2: and books experiencing pain and suffering and violence and being

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Speaker 2: shot by the police and things like that. So and

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Speaker 2: even though that does happen at the end of the movie,

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Speaker 2: it's Monk's imagination of what's happening, So it's not real.

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Speaker 2: So you don't actually see real violence against black people

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Speaker 2: on screen. So that's my guess as to why Cord

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Speaker 2: Jefferson made that change. But I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wasn't able to find comments on like specific

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Speaker 1: changes made, but I just thought it was interesting because

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Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know, personal ever writes like really

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Speaker 1: intensely political book or like in this case, wrote a

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Speaker 1: very intensely political book. And I also like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's I would be so interested to hear like Coreg

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Speaker 1: Jefferson's thoughts on like, well, you know, is that a

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Speaker 1: studio note? Is that his choice? Like I just wonder

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Speaker 1: what the process is when you're adapting a novel to

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Speaker 1: the screen of like, well, if you want X amount

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Speaker 1: of budget, we need you to change this, this and this,

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Speaker 1: which is right? You know happens? I don't know, so

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Speaker 1: hard to say, but ri ip, Lisa, you were the

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Speaker 1: best character. I think that. Yes.

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Speaker 2: So the family holds a small funeral for her, which

401
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Speaker 2: is on the beach near the family beach house. So

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Speaker 2: we're kind of like going back and forth between this

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Speaker 2: beach house among's mother's house. Also, I think he goes

404
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 2: back to la sometimes I track of like where people

405
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 2: were in space and time. But anyway, there's a funeral,

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Speaker 2: and this is when we meet Monk and Lisa's brother,

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Speaker 2: Cliff played by Sterling K. Brown. He and Monk have

408
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Speaker 2: mostly lost touch, but they start to reconnect. Throughout the movie,

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Speaker 2: Cliff is also recently divorced from his wife and he

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Speaker 2: has come out as gay. Then Monk meets a neighbor woman, Coraline,

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Speaker 2: played by Erica Alexander.

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Speaker 4: Of Living Single.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I just want to point out that we

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Speaker 3: have three very prominent black sitco or black led i'd

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00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 3: say female led shows in here. We have is Array

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Speaker 3: of Insecure, we have Tracy Alis Ross of Girlfriends, and

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Speaker 3: we have Erica Alexander of Living Single. Oh my god,

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Speaker 3: we could have gotten them in one scene.

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Speaker 1: Do you not understand that's a holy trinity situation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Flying Colors, it would have passed the Bechdel test

421
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Speaker 3: if they could have just had a conversation about it,

422
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 3: literally anything else and it would.

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Speaker 1: Have just been such a dull. Yeah, the women are

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00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: pretty a cordoned off from from each other sequence to

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Speaker 1: sequin and you know, we could talk about that, but

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Speaker 1: uh but I didn't. Yeah, I didn't even make that connection.

427
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: But there is like a sitcom holy trinity situation going

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Speaker 1: on here.

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00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you have Living Single that was first, it

430
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 3: predated friends. Then you have Girlfriends that comes later, which

431
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 3: is referenced Insecure, that would come even later, I was

432
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 3: in hog Heaven, Like, how did you get all of

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Speaker 3: them in one movie?

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Speaker 4: This is amazing.

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Speaker 1: Next time, let's get him in a scene.

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00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's get him together.

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00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 2: Come on, seriously, Okay, So we meet coreline. She and

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00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: Monk start chatting. She invites him inside for some wine,

439
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 2: and then a little bit later she asks Monk out

440
00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 2: on a date. Then Monk takes his mother to a

441
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 2: doctor appointment. She is diagnosed with Alzheimer's, which means that

442
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 2: she will likely need round the clock care. And with

443
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 2: Lisa's passing and Cliff being broke from his divorce, it's

444
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 2: sort of up to Monk to kind of bear this

445
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: financial burden. But he also doesn't really have the money

446
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 2: for that. So he decides to sit down and start

447
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 2: writing a book called My Pathology under the pseudonym stag

448
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: r Lee. And it is the very stereotypical narrative about

449
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 2: black people that these publishers are like gobbling up. So

450
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 2: you know, there's deadbeat Dad's guns crack. And as he

451
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 2: writes this book, two characters come to life. One of

452
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 2: them is played by Keith David, And there's this really

453
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: fun scene where like Monk is kind of talking to

454
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: them of like negotiating some of the dialogue that they

455
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: would say in some of the descriptions. It's very very funny.

456
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: And in the in the in Erasure, like he writes

457
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: the whole book like my Pathology just appears in the

458
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: middle of Erasure, and it is like, well, really really

459
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: really intense. And I think, like, and this isn't a

460
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: criticism of the movie, because it's like you, how would

461
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: you do that? And also would you really want to?

462
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: I think that he like adapts it really really well.

463
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: But the like amount of horrific stuff that happens in

464
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: the book within a book that is then responded to

465
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: really positively by like the white literary crowd, is like,

466
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: it is pretty horrific.

467
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,239
Speaker 3: There are so I don't want to get too far

468
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 3: ahead of the recap, but I just want to point

469
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 3: out that right after the scene where he is talking

470
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 3: to his characters from the book, he is sitting on

471
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 3: the bed playing on his phone, and it's just before

472
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 3: he talks to his agent, but he's sitting on there

473
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 3: playing on his phone and a TV shows it says

474
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 3: black Stories Month, and it then shows a preview of

475
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 3: the stories that month, and these were actual movies, and

476
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 3: they showed scenes from Boys in the Hood, Twelve Years

477
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 3: of Slave, k New Jack City, and Precious, and I wrote, Yikes,

478
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: seeing all of them as clips together is actually kind

479
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 3: of wild because they picked them in a certain way

480
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 3: that shows like, you know, the brother getting shot in

481
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: Boys in the Hood, Precious running with her baby, twelve

482
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 3: years of Slave running from the slave masters, all of

483
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: that together and it's like Black Stories Month, which is

484
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 3: just such a good little punctuation on what the story

485
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 3: that Coor Jefferson is telling here. It was just like

486
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: just a little bit of an easter egg. I really enjoyed.

487
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know exactly what the senior talking about.

488
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 2: And the one clip that I recognized the most was

489
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: from Precious, Yeah, because I was like, wait, is that

490
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: from Precious, which is the movie that I kept thinking

491
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: of over and over again when characters would reference black

492
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 2: tragedy porn movies. Yes, and like white audience's response to

493
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: that being like, oh my god, it's the most important

494
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 2: film of a generation, and Oscar's Oscars Oscars.

495
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: It's also what the book is kind of written in

496
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: conversation with originally, because the like push but wait the

497
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: Precious based on the Novelshire was just like printed on

498
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: my brain. But the novel by Sapphire, which was called Push,

499
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: came out in nineteen ninety six, and I think was

500
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: like part of what inspired Perceval Everett to write this

501
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: in the first place, was like like not taking issue

502
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: with the novel's existence, but with its embracing Like I

503
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: think that that's it's It seems like that's a lot

504
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 1: of where the character Satara comes from. Is Satara Sapphire,

505
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: you know.

506
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I think it was an amalgamation. But yes,

507
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 3: I think that because I was thinking as soon as

508
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 3: you said Precious, immediately thought about for colored girls. I'm

509
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 3: just thinking about there's just like a list of these

510
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 3: kind of very traumatic works that have come from multiple

511
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 3: authors that have all of a sudden been celebrated in

512
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: a way that never made me quite feel that good.

513
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 3: I remember there's a there's a there was a film

514
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: that came.

515
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 4: Out a few years ago.

516
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 3: I completely forgot the name of it, but it was

517
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 3: about a black guy getting shot by the cops. And

518
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 3: I remember several white folks was like, have you seen

519
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 3: this film to me? And I was just like, no,

520
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 3: but I've seen the countless amount of videos of black

521
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 3: people being shot by the cops, So I certainly don't

522
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 3: need a dramatization of it. I don't, and I don't

523
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: think that's an important film for me to see. So

524
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: I hope you enjoy it, though, and I hope that

525
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 3: it pushes you forward in your politics.

526
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: Or whatever are you talking about? Was it called the

527
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: hate you give?

528
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 4: Yes? The hate you give? Yes? Thank you. That's exactly

529
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 4: what it was.

530
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 3: That you knew what I was talking about. Yes, But

531
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 3: I remember everyone's like, have you seen the hate you Give?

532
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 3: And I'm like, no, never, will, won't read the book.

533
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 4: I get it.

534
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 3: I don't need to see a play about like the

535
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 3: famous life from Euphoria. Is this play about us?

536
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 4: Like I don't. I don't need, I don't need to

537
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 4: actually see.

538
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 2: It, right, yes? Okay. So Monk finishes the book My

539
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 2: Pathology and sends it to his agent Arthur to send

540
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: out two publishers. Not because Monk wants to sell the book,

541
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: more to show the publishers how ridiculous and racist they're

542
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: being with their expectations of black writers. But a publisher

543
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,479
Speaker 2: loves the book and wants to buy it and offers

544
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: Monk a huge advance.

545
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 4: Before you proceed, Can I say one thing? Yeah?

546
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: So o.

547
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 4: Yes.

548
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 3: He's talking to his agent, and his agent says that

549
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 3: his agent is resistant to him about this. He says,

550
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 3: you shouldn't do this. I don't think this is a

551
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 3: good idea. Monk has tried to push ahead. Monk says

552
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 3: something like, you know, I want to show them. I

553
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: want to rub their faces in it is. An agent

554
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 3: says back to him one of the hardest hitting lines

555
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 3: I've ever heard about white folks. He says, white people

556
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 3: think that they want the truth, but they don't. They

557
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: just want to be absolved. And I I said, this

558
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 3: is canon. They need to put it everywhere. They need

559
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: to put it on billboards. This is like to me,

560
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 3: it's practice. You could teach college courses just about this,

561
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: because it's the hardest thing. As matter of fact, you

562
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: could fill in this with any sort of marginalized spectrum.

563
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: If you go to one side of it, you could

564
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: replace white people with a lot of things. You say,

565
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 3: men think they want the truth. They don't, but they

566
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 3: just want to be absolved. There's so many ways that

567
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 3: this fits. Because everyone thinks that they're the exception to

568
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 3: the rule. They never assume that they're also part of

569
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 3: the problem, and they want to be told. They want

570
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 3: to read works like this and be told that they're

571
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 3: not part of the problem, that they're not the bad gentrifier,

572
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 3: that they want to be told that over and over again,

573
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 3: that they're they're the right man, you know what I mean.

574
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 3: So I've read that, I was like, oh my god,

575
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 3: this is and I still don't understand how that line

576
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: is not like laminated and put in like schools and

577
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 3: like and god we trust.

578
00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: No, just that there's still time, there's still time, You're sorry,

579
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: I mean, And I feel like it's that's in conversation

580
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: with like why are so many stories about marginalized people

581
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: taking place in the distant past, And I think that

582
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: that is like there it is kind of this like

583
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: anesthetizing effect of like, well, people used to be so horrible,

584
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: but you're fine, you're great, or like we talk about

585
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: all the time on the show like the like patriarchy

586
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: the guy kind of character, which is like showing a

587
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: man who's the worst man. So if you're a man

588
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: watching it, you're not as bad as that guy, so

589
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: you're probably fine. You know. It's like it's it's like

590
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: we see you, we see what you're doing, and Core

591
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: Jefferson does too.

592
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this movie does a really good job

593
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: of showing, you know, well meaning but ultimately clueless white people.

594
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: Who even know if they're well meaning. Honestly, I think

595
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: it's like they're capitalists.

596
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: For sure on the publishers. I guess what it is

597
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: is this movie shows does a good job of showing

598
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: the difference between white people caring about equity and black

599
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: liberation and white people not wanting to seem racist. Right,

600
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: All the white people we see in this movie fall

601
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: in the latter category.

602
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: Yes, and they're all getting a cut too, Like I

603
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: don't think like no one is doing this out of

604
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: the goodness of their heart. They're like opportunistic and like

605
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, I can appear to be not racist

606
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: and make ten percent of like you know, it's just

607
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: it's ugly.

608
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: It's I think it's brilliantly nuanced in this film, because

609
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 3: later in the film there is a line about nuance

610
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 3: that comes up, and there is a line about listening

611
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 3: to black voices that comes up, which we'll get to.

612
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: But this film just stays firmly in the conversation of saying, Hey,

613
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 3: there's this thing that we're doing with race that is

614
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: becoming as problematic as all of the original problems that

615
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: you think that we resolved about race. And I feel

616
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 3: like for this movie to say this in twenty twenty

617
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 3: three is kind of all of these kind of parallel

618
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 3: narratives that happen during what we assume to be progress,

619
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 3: especially in the United States, and the people are writing

620
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 3: and saying, Hey, this other thing is happening, and everyone's like, ah,

621
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 3: we're not really worried about that so much. So I

622
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 3: really appreciate when a movie like this or any like

623
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 3: creative work just plainly states it in this way, even

624
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 3: though it doesn't always necessarily get heard.

625
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: For sure, Yeah, absolutely so.

626
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: Monk is offered this huge advance for this book. He

627
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: doesn't want to sell it because he knows that it's trash,

628
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: but his mother's medical bills are piling up, so he

629
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 2: takes a call with a publisher, and at the encouragement

630
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: of his agent, Arthur, he puts on this different persona

631
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 2: to make him see more like hood to match the

632
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: vibe of the book. The publisher doesn't know that stagg

633
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: r Lee is felonious Ellison, and then Arthur adds the

634
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: detail that Stagg can't use his real name because he's

635
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 2: a wanted fugitive from the law. Meanwhile, Monk has started

636
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: seeing Coraline. He invites her over for dinner to meet

637
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: his mom. This is my favorite becdo test passing moment.

638
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if this is the one that you

639
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: were talking about, Jamie, where Monk's mother, Agnes says, I'm

640
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 2: so glad you're not white, and Coraline says.

641
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: Me too too, and you're just like wow. That is

642
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: a very powerful exchange.

643
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 2: Because we learned a little a little bit later that

644
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 2: other women that Monk has dated were white, and his

645
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 2: family had some thoughts about the women. Yeah, so that

646
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: line gets contextualized a little bit more, but it's still

647
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: so funny.

648
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 3: It's also like meta commentary on like the type of

649
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 3: black person that the Lonius Ellison is without being super overt.

650
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 3: In those conversations, we're learning more about him because we

651
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 3: only see him with a black woman in this film.

652
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 3: We don't see him with any other race of woman,

653
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 3: which is just funny to hear other folks talk about it,

654
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: because it just it tells us who he was or

655
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 3: how he's been perceived in the past was just another layer,

656
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 3: because this is also a black man that says, I

657
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: don't even really believe in race, which immediately.

658
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 4: I'm like, I know who you are. I know you are,

659
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 4: and I hate you, but I know who you are.

660
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 4: You're very smart, but I hate your guts.

661
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, the author of the has conundrum correct.

662
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 2: Oh okay, So one night Agnes goes missing. They quickly

663
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 2: find her walking around on the beach, but it's a

664
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: sign that she needs constant supervision, so Monk puts her

665
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: in an assisted living facility. Then Monk gets a call

666
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 2: from a guy from something called the Literary Awards saying

667
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: that they realized their panel of judges is not very

668
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 2: diverse and they're trying to fix that. So they want

669
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: to know if Monk will be one of the judges,

670
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: and he reluctantly agrees and finds out that Centaura Golden

671
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: is one of the other judges and Monk is like her.

672
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 2: Then Monk has a meeting with this guy Wiley played

673
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: by Adam Brody, a Hollywood director who's interested in adapting

674
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 2: his book. So Monk has to put on the stag

675
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: Lee persona again for a meeting with Wiley, and Wiley

676
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 2: is super impressed with him. He thinks he's the real deal.

677
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: So Wiley offers four million, Right, what does that mean?

678
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: Adam Brody has had a very fun kind of filmography

679
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 1: in the Cult where he just kind of pops up

680
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: every once in a while and you're like, all right,

681
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: he pops up.

682
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: He usually plays an abhorn.

683
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember. It was he and promising young

684
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: woman like who was he was a piece of shit

685
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: and something else.

686
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 4: Recently, think nobody wants this. I think that's the big

687
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 4: I think you would get on.

688
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: I don't want it. I'm not interesting, but I do.

689
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, he he's great at playing a piece of shit.

690
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: It's nice when an actor knows how punchable their own faces.

691
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

692
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 3: My question for that though, was like, do you do

693
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 3: you think that I assume that he's aware of the

694
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 3: character that he's playing, But then it makes me it

695
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: goes back to say, do you think that he's like, well,

696
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 3: I'm not this guy. Do you think that he has

697
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 3: to be in touch with that guy a little bit

698
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 3: in order to actually.

699
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 2: Embody that guy?

700
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a part of me that's like, humm, but

701
00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 3: I only think that to say, he played the role

702
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 3: very well, and I just hope that it's not in

703
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 3: him he did.

704
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a really good I don't know, I

705
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: was thinking about that on this viewing where it's like

706
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: most of the white characters we encounter are so highly

707
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: satirized and so like completely brain unplugged that you do

708
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: kind of wonder, like how are the actors engaging with

709
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: the material and like, and I also like wonder about

710
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: white audience members seeing this movie and being like, oh, well,

711
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: I'm not that so I'm I'm probably fine, you know.

712
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, But also there are so many white people who

713
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 2: are exactly like every single white person we see in

714
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 2: this movie, so like, right, it's not even satire. And

715
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: then for the actors, well, you hear about actors who

716
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 2: often play villains or assholes, and then they turn out

717
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: to be a monstrous person themselves, and you're like, oh, yeah,

718
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 2: you weren't really even acting then, you were just kind

719
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: of being yourself.

720
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 1: But right, well, it's like it's like Jeremy Iyern.

721
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 2: It's like that. But then there are also actors who

722
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: usually play a villain, but by all accounts, they're like

723
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 2: the nicest person you've ever met, and it's just that

724
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: they're a really good actor. For example, Alfred Molina often plays.

725
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: A villain Malina, but and he's a friend to all,

726
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: including us.

727
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 2: He's our best friend, so I call him mal al Yeah,

728
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 2: Freddy Freddie Molina our best friend.

729
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 1: I love so much, Freddy Freddie Molina our beloved.

730
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, so who knows Adam Brody. We don't know

731
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: if he's a nice or not in real life, but anyway,

732
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: he is so impressed with stagg Lee and thinks he's

733
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 2: so authentic, and he offers four million dollars for the

734
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 2: movie rights. Then Monk and Arthur talked to the publishers

735
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 2: again about selling the book and like marketing it, and

736
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: Monk is like, I can't believe they like this shit.

737
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 2: This is so absurd, and so to fuck with them,

738
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: he says that he wants to change the title of

739
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 2: the book to simply the word fuck, and the publishers

740
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: are like, yeah, okay, that's a great idea, that's so brave,

741
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 2: let's do it.

742
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

743
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So the book Fuck is published and debuts at

744
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 2: number one on the New York Times bestseller list. Monk

745
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 2: discovers the core line has a copy of it and

746
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: that she has read it and liked it, and he's like, well,

747
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: what did you like about it? It's reductive slop because

748
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: he has not told her that he is Staglee and

749
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 2: that he wrote the book. Pretty much no one knows

750
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 2: except for his agent. And then they get into an

751
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 2: argument and she calls him out for being like pretentious

752
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: and cold and shut off and for acting like an asshole,

753
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: and it seems like they break up. Then Monk receives

754
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 2: a copy of Fuck, which had been submitted to the

755
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 2: Literary Awards, which means that he and the other judges

756
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 2: will have to evaluate it, and he's like, God, damn it. Meanwhile,

757
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: the family's housekeeper, Lorraine, is getting married to this guy

758
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 2: named Maynard. They have their wedding by the beach house.

759
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 2: Monk walks Lorraine down the aisle. It's very sweet. Also,

760
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: Monk's brother Cliff is back in town. He's on this

761
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: like horny bender because this is his first time having

762
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 2: gay relationships, so he's making up for lost time. Yes, exactly.

763
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 3: Quick side note could ask a question, of course of y'all.

764
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 3: As soon as I saw the scene with the judges

765
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 3: of the Literary Award. I knew who Monk was on

766
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: that judging pedal. I we already understand whose character is.

767
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 3: We're learning who Sintaura is. However, the three white characters

768
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 3: are all to me, I felt like excellently picked and

769
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 3: portrayed in terms of the spectrum of whiteness and how

770
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 3: whiteness would interact on this panel and what it would

771
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 3: look like for them to build this panel. And I'm

772
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 3: curious for y'all to see these three white people. Did

773
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 3: any of them? Did any of them stand out to you?

774
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 3: They have a white woman and two white men, and

775
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 3: I'm curious, were any of you did they ping your

776
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 3: brain at all? Seeing these three white folks in particular?

777
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, I mean I guess when I was

778
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 2: referring to like sometimes well meaning white people, et cetera,

779
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 2: et cetera, I had that the white woman in mind

780
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: for that, because you know, she seems like a pretty

781
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: typical like liberal white woman.

782
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: Yeah who, And let's be honest, like we've been this

783
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: white woman before. Like absolutely, I think like I think

784
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: that there is an element to that character specifically, even

785
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: though it's like broadly drawn and like, oh yeah, that's

786
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: like I've there's been notes of me in that before,

787
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: and it's like, I think that's like part of what

788
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: makes the movie effective is like you should be seeing

789
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: shades of yourself in characters like that. And then like

790
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: the one of the older white guys too, was like,

791
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: I don't even know like how to describe what it is,

792
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: but it feels very like, oh, like a professor who

793
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: is like trying to relate with a black student and

794
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: being overly familiar and the vocabulary is weird and like

795
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: and you're just like, whatever this is, it's not working.

796
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: And yeah, no, I mean they all felt familiar. And

797
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: then in the case of the white woman, I was like, oh, no,

798
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: is this me in twenty sixteen? I know, yeah, yeah,

799
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: maybe some early Bechdel Cast episodes.

800
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 4: I don't know.

801
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is very true. And then there

802
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 2: was the third person, the other white man who seems

803
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: to be like a libertarian.

804
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 4: Yes, that's exactly what he was, That's exactly what Yeah.

805
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: I mean, well that's the guy who calls Monk, and

806
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 1: it's pretty blunt about like, hey, we're asking you to

807
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,439
Speaker 1: do this because you're a black writer, and like Monk

808
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 1: is like awesome, cool. That feels no that's a different guy.

809
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: Oh wow, they all blurred together.

810
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 4: Abo.

811
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, because that guy.

812
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: Those two guys blurred together for me.

813
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, no, totally different guy. The guy who like

814
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 2: runs the Literary Awards is the one who calls Monk,

815
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 2: and he's the one who's like, we just noticed that

816
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 2: our panel of judges has never been diverse, so can

817
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: you be on it, Monk? And I love his response.

818
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 2: He says, I'm honored you'd choose me out of all

819
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 2: the black writers you could go to out of fear

820
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: of being called racist. And Monk is being very facetious

821
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: in that moment, but the white guy does not pick

822
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: up on it at all, and he's like, yeah, you're

823
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 2: very welcome.

824
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: Well, And I also love how particular to like who

825
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: we know Monk to be. Is that what sells him

826
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: on it? Is like, well, yeah, we can't pay a lot,

827
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: and we are like making it clear to you why

828
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: we're asking you to do it, but you'll get to

829
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 1: talk as much shit as you want. And he's like,

830
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: I'll do it, Yes, I'm.

831
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 3: In the I just want to point out the other

832
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 3: part that this movie does well is I just and

833
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 3: you probably you'll probably know like being as the originators

834
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,439
Speaker 3: of the Bechdel Cast podcast, you probably know that there's

835
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 3: a movie out there that will show you all the

836
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 3: different types of men that if you were to interact

837
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 3: with all of them in one day, you would definitely

838
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 3: go home being like, I don't ever want to see

839
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 3: a man again in my life. And the thing is,

840
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 3: each of them individually aren't that bad. But if you

841
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 3: had to talk to all of them in one day,

842
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 3: you'd be like, no, get him out of here. This

843
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 3: movie does that for white folks, because if you go

844
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 3: from beginning to end and talk to each one of

845
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 3: these individual white fil I'm talking Philip on the beach,

846
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 3: the three professors in the beginning of the Junges at

847
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 3: the end, all, if you go through all of them,

848
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 3: you'd be like, oh, I will be hanging out with

849
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,479
Speaker 3: Coraline by the beach and not talking to a white

850
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 3: person ever.

851
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 4: Again.

852
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 3: I think that's that's very hard to manage, that type

853
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 3: of like nuance and saying hey, individually, I love all

854
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 3: these folks together, y'all gotta stop, right.

855
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: I Mean, I'm just like and I don't know, like

856
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: what the adaptation is there, but just even like looking

857
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: at core Jefferson's career. It's like I would wager, I

858
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: guess that there's a lot of his own experience in

859
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 1: those exchanges, because it's like this guy was in the

860
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: room for Succession, you know, like there, you have to

861
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: imagine that you're like and I'm a succession lover, I'm

862
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: a succession booster. But you have to imagine being a

863
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,479
Speaker 1: black writer on Succession was maybe not the easiest job

864
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: one of the whitest shows ever committed.

865
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 3: To the good place then Succession in both of them

866
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 3: in terms of and I'm saying, like you, these are

867
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:58,919
Speaker 3: both good. I love both of these shows, to be clear,

868
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 3: I think they're great. But to be a black person

869
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 3: in the room for either of those I imagine. Because

870
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 3: then he follows that up with the watch with Watchman.

871
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: With Watchman but which is run by Damon lindelof which

872
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: I mean famously famously and.

873
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 2: So like, I just I don't know.

874
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: I was like, I want, maybe they exist. I didn't

875
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 1: have time to listen to a ton of core Jefferson interviews,

876
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: but like I want, I want the memoir.

877
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 4: Really, I have a ton of follow up questions for

878
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 4: him on this.

879
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: He most recently wrote on the New IT series too.

880
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: I was like Range, Range, which was supposed to be

881
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: really good. I didn't watch it.

882
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 2: Yeah me either Welcome to Dairy or something, which I

883
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 2: always get confused with Dairy Girls. I'm like, oh, is

884
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 2: it set in that same place? And it's not.

885
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a crossover.

886
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: I'll watch anything with Bill Scar's card. I'll do it.

887
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: I'll do it.

888
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: I'll do anything for that man. Scary clowns included.

889
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 4: To be clear, it's not a crossover. I just if

890
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 4: this makes the podcast please.

891
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: People are hitting the reddit like, wait a second, wait

892
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: a minute, Welcome.

893
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: It's called a joke. Okay. So Lorraine and Maynard's wedding happens.

894
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: Then the five judges for the Literary Awards gather to

895
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 2: figure out who to like give the main award to,

896
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 2: and they discuss the book Fuck and the white judges

897
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 2: love it. Sintaura and Monk are like, no, it's bad.

898
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 2: And then there's a scene where Monk and Sintaura talk

899
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 2: about her book and like literature in general, I want

900
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 2: to more closely look at this scene during our discussion

901
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 2: because I like wrote out the entire thing and I

902
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,919
Speaker 2: want to talk all about it. But basically, she makes

903
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 2: some points that he perhaps hadn't fully considered, and then

904
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 2: we see him call his agent and set up another

905
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 2: meeting with that Hollywood guy Wiley because Monk has a

906
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 2: new idea, which we will soon find out about. In

907
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 2: the meantime, despite Monk and Centaur's protests, the three white

908
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 2: judges for the literary awards decide to give Fuck the

909
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 2: first place, like Book of the Year or whatever award.

910
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: Can I ask something bizarre and annoying? Sorry? What was that?

911
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: I was trying to remember? And I couldn't find it

912
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: in my notes because my ever note has now been

913
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: dominated by AI and I can't find shit. What was

914
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: the name of the husband's book in Past Lives? And

915
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 1: was it also fuck?

916
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it was like Boner or something.

917
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: It was called like peep? Like what was it called?

918
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: I was not able to figure it out because it

919
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 1: only appears in a couple of shots. But I remember

920
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: that we really appreciated, like, He's like, it's my debut novel.

921
00:49:58,840 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: It's called Boner.

922
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 4: Wow?

923
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 2: Okay, wow?

924
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: Were there two novels named called fuck in twenty twenty three? No,

925
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: there was Fuck and Knowner.

926
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: That's beautiful.

927
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: I celebrate that.

928
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 3: Something to note when they when they are having this conversation,

929
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 3: and this was like kind of like the when I

930
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 3: was thinking about the different types of white folks. It

931
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 3: says they when they decide that they are going to

932
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 3: do it. And this is first of all genius the

933
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 3: way they set this up. The black folks are sitting

934
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,399
Speaker 3: on one side of the table, there's two of them.

935
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 3: The white folks are sitting on the other. And as

936
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 3: they decide that it's that fuck is going to win.

937
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,399
Speaker 3: Way to decide that that's the winner. The woman judge

938
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 3: I forgot her name, she turns to the table and

939
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 3: she says, it's not just that it's affecting. I just

940
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 3: think that it's essential to listen to black voices right now.

941
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 3: And the camera shot just shows the three white people

942
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 3: looking at the two black people who just said, we

943
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 3: don't want to pick this book.

944
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 4: I write Chef's Kiss beautiful. That's how you that.

945
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 3: It was incredibly frustrating. I don't feel any resolution there,

946
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 3: but thanks for at least they put it in a

947
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 3: way that if you're white and you saw that scene,

948
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 3: you had to be like, oh no, am I in

949
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 3: this picture?

950
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 4: Yeah?

951
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 2: No, The irony in that moment is I mean, it's

952
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 2: a it's a it's a funny visual joke, and then

953
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 2: it's also just like damn, yeah, this this is how

954
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 2: white people are, so yeah they they Despite Centaura and

955
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 2: Monk's protests, the three white judges decide to give Fuck

956
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:42,320
Speaker 2: the Book of the Year award. Monk is like, ugh,

957
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 2: I guess and he he invites Coraline to be his

958
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 2: date at the awards ceremony, but she does not respond.

959
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 2: She has not been replying to his texts. Then we

960
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: cut to the ceremony. Coreline shows up. Fuck is announced

961
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 2: as the winner, and Monk goes to the stage and

962
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 2: is presumably about to reveal himself as stag r Lee,

963
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: but then we cut to black and we realize that

964
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 2: this is part of his screenplay that Monk has written

965
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 2: and is showing Wiley, and Wiley is like, well, that

966
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 2: can't be the ending. This is unresolved. You know, the

967
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 2: character of Monk should say something.

968
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: It almost this is like obviously very very different material,

969
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 1: but it is kind of giving the end of Greta

970
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,879
Speaker 1: Gerwig Little Women too, where oh my gosh, yeah where

971
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: It's like, wait, how should it end? I don't know?

972
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't. I don't know why I

973
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 1: didn't connect that the first time I saw it. But

974
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 1: I was like, oh wait, that's actually very similar, very similar,

975
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: hunting to very different movies.

976
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 3: You talk about what guy was very confused by the

977
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 3: ending of Little Women, a movie that I very much enjoyed,

978
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 3: but I had to google eight thick pieces before I wait,

979
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 3: what does that mean?

980
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: That was? I have to I haven't seen since it

981
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: came out, have to return. I do remember the think

982
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: pieces back when? Do you remember we were still publishing things,

983
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: you know, twenty nineteen it was a sim more time.

984
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 4: I missthink pieces, bring them back.

985
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were people, weeople were gettingaid upwards of fifty dollars.

986
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 2: First.

987
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 4: Remember when we used to publish things. I was gonna say,

988
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,280
Speaker 4: you remember when we used to think.

989
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 2: Vaguely?

990
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: It's true. Now we just thinking rooms by ourselves and

991
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: say never mind, never mind.

992
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 2: Or people have chat GBT think for them and we

993
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 2: need to see it and chat GBT says, no more thinking,

994
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 2: no more thinking, no more, no more. But no, I

995
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 2: didn't make that connection at all. But yeah, at the

996
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 2: end of Little Women twenty nineteen, Yes, it's sir, sha

997
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,760
Speaker 2: Ronan's character, Oh my gosh, who just play Joe pitching

998
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 2: her book to a publisher and he's being like, no,

999
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 2: I don't like that ending. Make it. I think he

1000
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 2: wants it to be like more like neatly resolved.

1001
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's like to justify why the actual ending

1002
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,479
Speaker 1: of Little Women is like, and then Joe got married

1003
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 1: and she was pretty happy, right, that's like so like

1004
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: you're like, wait, Joe March, who we understand is clearly

1005
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: a queer woman.

1006
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, yeah, she marries a man. Okay, yeah right. Anyways, anyway,

1007
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: so Wiley is like, this ending is no good. So

1008
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 2: Monk pitches this ending at the awards ceremony, where Monk

1009
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 2: runs out and he goes to Coreline's house to apologize

1010
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,919
Speaker 2: and try to make up with her, and Wiley is like, nah,

1011
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 2: that makes the whole movie feel too much like a

1012
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,879
Speaker 2: rom com. That's not what we're going for. So then

1013
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 2: Monk is like what about this. At the awards ceremony,

1014
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 2: Monk the character goes up to accept the award, but

1015
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 2: just then the FBI comes in because they've been after

1016
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 2: stag Leave since they heard that he was a wanted criminal,

1017
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:06,280
Speaker 2: and they shoot and kill Monk, not realizing that Staglee

1018
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:07,760
Speaker 2: is not a real person.

1019
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 3: He's also holding a transparent trophy in his hand that

1020
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,760
Speaker 3: is clearly not good and they say.

1021
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 4: Which I was like, Oh that's beautiful. Yes, it's going

1022
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:19,439
Speaker 4: to go Cord.

1023
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: You did it, You did it.

1024
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 2: So then we cut back to Wiley and he's like, yes,

1025
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 2: this idea is perfect, let's shoot it. And then the

1026
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 2: movie ends with Monk on a studio lot. They're gonna

1027
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 2: make the movie that he wrote, and he gets in

1028
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 2: the car with Cliff and makes a joke about Tyler Perry.

1029
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 3: The end, Cliff has a different haircut, which made me wonder.

1030
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 3: I didn't know if this was production or storytelling. Is

1031
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 3: this you lost Stirlely Kate Brown. We had to do

1032
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 3: a reshoot and he had a different haircut, and we

1033
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 3: were just like, oh, that's fine, or is this storytelling?

1034
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 3: Are you telling me that there's other parts of the

1035
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 3: story that weren't as we knew them. I remember I

1036
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 3: thought that for a moment and I just put it

1037
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 3: out of my mind. I was like, maybe it's nothing.

1038
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:08,399
Speaker 3: I don't know what y'all thought.

1039
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 2: Here's here's my head cannon. Because I noticed the different haircut.

1040
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 2: So he has been making new gay friends and lovers. Yeah,

1041
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 2: and I feel like one of them is like, let's

1042
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 2: give you a makeover.

1043
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: Gotcha new haircut, name name that works. Yeah. I guess

1044
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: I was just I wasn't thinking about the haircut. That

1045
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: was a failure on my part. I was just like, wow, yay,

1046
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 1: I loved.

1047
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 2: Him anyway, Well that's the movie. Let's take another quick

1048
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 2: break and we'll come back to discuss.

1049
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: And we're back back.

1050
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 3: I want to pick up where we left off about

1051
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 3: him talking to the producer. There's a line that Wiley

1052
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 3: says where he basically says, when he's talking about the endings,

1053
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 3: he says, Nuance doesn't put asses in theater seats. And

1054
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 3: that felt incredibly meta because this is a very nuanced film,

1055
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 3: a very nuanced film, and I feel like even the

1056
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 3: way that he ended, I remember at the time that

1057
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 3: I originally watched it thinking, is this a bit of

1058
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 3: a cop out? Are you not just going to tell

1059
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 3: us how this story ends? Or is it a safe

1060
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 3: is it a safety move for you to just be

1061
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 3: like So I just walked out of the awards, never

1062
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 3: talked to Coroline again, and now I'm pitching a movie

1063
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 3: to you. All the problems here are solved. We're driving

1064
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 3: off into the sunset. But I remember watching it this

1065
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 3: time and feeling a lot more satisfied, probably because I

1066
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 3: had nothing to expect. I kind of already knew where

1067
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 3: it was going, so I had no more expectations of

1068
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 3: the film. But that line, nuance doesn't put asses in

1069
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 3: theater seats. I was just like, Yeah, that's that's true.

1070
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 3: That's that's production right now in Hollywood.

1071
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 4: That's like, no, we can't. We can't do the risky

1072
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 4: nuance thing. We have to someone has to win or

1073
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 4: lose at the end.

1074
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: Even though like whenever someone does do the risky nuance thing,

1075
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: people go to see it, which is like the lesson

1076
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: we learned over and over and over and over. But

1077
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: you know, you're just like told repeatedly people don't want this,

1078
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, then why do they keep exactly

1079
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: going to see it?

1080
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 2: Thinking about although I mean this, like you said, Ronald,

1081
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 2: this is a nuanced film and it only earned twenty

1082
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 2: three million dollars at the box office on a ten

1083
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 2: million dollar budget.

1084
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 4: So like with an Oscar campaign, the point is kind.

1085
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 2: Of being proven, right, I mean It got tons of awards,

1086
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 2: recognition and nominations, but a lot of people didn't see it,

1087
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 2: at least not in theaters.

1088
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 1: I wonder how wide the release ended up being too.

1089
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. I live in Burbank, where there's a

1090
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: million AMCs. I'm living a very spoiled lifestyle. I can

1091
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: see whatever the hell I want. I saw. I saw

1092
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: Peter Hujar's Day by accident. That's how good things are here.

1093
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 2: Wait what you saw?

1094
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: What? Literally? There's well, it's a Ben Wishaw movie about

1095
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: a historical figure. I was not aware of a queer

1096
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 1: photographer named Peter Hujar. I forget what movie I was

1097
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: trying to see, but I went into the wrong movie

1098
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: theater and then I just randomly saw Peter Hujar's Day,

1099
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, what perfank?

1100
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 4: Why did I just imagine you sitting there eating your

1101
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 4: popcorn being like, man, this slaps?

1102
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: What is this? I was? It was definitely you know,

1103
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: like when you just like have a Sunday and you're like,

1104
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: I'm just the world's gonna happen to me today. Yeah,

1105
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: because I forget what I might I think I was

1106
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 1: trying to see Blue Moon, and then I still I

1107
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: feel confident that I was directed to the wrong theater

1108
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 1: because I've never done this before. And then like ten

1109
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: minutes in, I was like, I don't think Ethan Hawk

1110
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 1: is coming. I think this is a But then I

1111
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: stayed and then you're saying, good, Yeah.

1112
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 2: That's great. I went to go see Nickel Boys and

1113
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 2: theaters and turns out I walked into the wrong theater

1114
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 2: because suddenly Tofer Grace was on screen. And then I

1115
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 2: realized I was watching that movie. I think it was

1116
00:59:58,280 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 2: called flight Plan or something.

1117
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 4: It's called flight Risk. Flight Risk, Yes, WHOA what a

1118
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 4: different film.

1119
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 2: And then I was like, I don't think tof for

1120
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 2: Grace is in Nickel Boys.

1121
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 1: I was like, that is an abrupt shift.

1122
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 4: Yeah. Mark Wahlberg shows up Bald and you're like, what's

1123
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 4: going on?

1124
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Mark Wahlberg Bald movie, The Bald, the Mark

1125
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 2: Boldberg movie a Berg.

1126
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 4: Yes.

1127
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 2: I got like three minutes into it, I was like,

1128
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 2: I don't think I'm in the right movie. And then

1129
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 2: I got up and walked into the correct movie and

1130
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 2: saw on Nickel Boys.

1131
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 1: But I took it as a sign from the universe.

1132
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: I was like, the universe wants me to see Peter

1133
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: Hujar's Day and it didn't make it.

1134
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say the universe was taking care

1135
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 3: of you probably, and like they were like, eh, you're

1136
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 3: not in a blue Moon mood.

1137
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 1: Come see the oone and I will say, like I

1138
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: did see Blue Moon later, and I like Peter Hujar's

1139
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: Day better. I would recommend it if anyone wants to

1140
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: learn about Uh. And it's great. It's Ben Wishaw and

1141
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 1: Rebecca Hall and they're the only two people in the movie.

1142
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it.

1143
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 2: Okay, nice anyway, Anyways, American fiction.

1144
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to just really quickly close the loop on adaptation. Yeah. Uh.

1145
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: Personal Everett was like, uh, it was interesting. I was like, oh,

1146
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: what a scary thing that Core Jefferson like did a

1147
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: special screening for Personval Everett and was like it was

1148
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: the scariest thing that has ever happened, like being like, hey,

1149
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: I adapted your you know, and Personal Evert was not

1150
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: really involved in the production and there are a lot

1151
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: of changes made and he like didn't really say anything

1152
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: about it. Personal Evert's like he's fun to read his

1153
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 1: interviews because he's he's a weird He's a weird man.

1154
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: Where he's like, I don't know, it's like sort of

1155
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 1: it's twenty five years later. It's kind of removed. I

1156
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: feel removed from it. And then he just like spends

1157
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 1: the rest of the interviews showing the writer a bunch

1158
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 1: of paintings he's working on, so he's an artiste. But

1159
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 1: the changes that are made are generally ones that move

1160
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: focused towards the family, because the book is like a

1161
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: bit a good chunk of the book is fuck or

1162
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: my pathology, and like, the family elements are all preserved

1163
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 1: from the book, but they're definitely expanded on in a

1164
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: way that it was interesting reading different critics and writers

1165
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: takes on. The one thing that I did want to

1166
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: point out that was like a significant change that I

1167
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: like don't quite understand is the changes with Lorraine's character,

1168
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: where in the book there is a pretty significant class

1169
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: tension between Lorraine and the Ellisons that is mostly done

1170
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: away with in the movie. And again it's like not

1171
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: that I'm like I want to see a like an

1172
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: unhappy class dynamic in this family, but yeah, like it's

1173
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 1: the story with Lorraine I think is like far there's

1174
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: not really as much friction in it as there was

1175
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: in the book in a movie that otherwise is like

1176
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: very down to deal with class.

1177
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 3: It felt like they season the movie with kind of

1178
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 3: the spectrum of blackness, which I appreciate, saying like there

1179
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 3: are different types of black people. These are one type

1180
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 3: of black people, and here's a different type. And I

1181
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 3: feel like it was you have to be paying attention

1182
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 3: in some porsches to really get that, whether it's the

1183
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 3: interactions between Lorraine and the family, the fact that she

1184
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 3: works for them and they are calling her family, and

1185
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 3: also the way they are treating her as someone who

1186
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 3: works for them is almost like an auntie. It's very

1187
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 3: anti coded, it's very Grandma Codedy. It feels very familiar.

1188
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 3: But there's an interaction that happens between Maynard and a

1189
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 3: monk that I want to point out where Maynard is

1190
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 3: basically he does something that I've seen black folks do

1191
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 3: when they know that you are doing well and they

1192
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 3: then make a suggestion to you about what you should

1193
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 3: do with your career, and the suggestion denotes no knowledge

1194
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 3: of how any of this works. When he looks Disband

1195
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 3: in his face and says cis and he goes it's

1196
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 3: a pretty popular show.

1197
01:03:57,840 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 4: You should write for it, and I want it to

1198
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 4: be like, I don't.

1199
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 3: Know what y'all think happens at the successful levels of

1200
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 3: being a writer, and he is a moderately successful writer.

1201
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 3: But it doesn't mean that you could just walk into

1202
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 3: a TV writer's room and start writing for television.

1203
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 1: Hello, I would like to write for ncis exactly.

1204
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, if you got that job, he'd probably love it,

1205
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 3: to be honest with you, but I remember thinking about

1206
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 3: that as being a notable distinction about what types of

1207
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 3: black folks these are, which for me, it's like, if

1208
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 3: you're around a lot of black people, you would notice that,

1209
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 3: but it might not be something that is kind of

1210
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 3: as highlighted as you mentioned that it was.

1211
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:33,439
Speaker 4: In the book.

1212
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that the closest it got

1213
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 1: to really calling out the class dynamic word like they

1214
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: are very close, but also they are her employers, and

1215
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 1: like the lines are clearly very murky, even though everybody

1216
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: loves each other. It's during one of Monk and Cliff's

1217
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: many like tense interactions about money, so again it's like

1218
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 1: they need enough money to send their mother to a facility,

1219
01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: and there is the class dynamic of like part of

1220
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: why Monk you know, compromises his creativity so severely is

1221
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: because he needs money, and like you know, it's very present.

1222
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: But there's like that little exchange where Monk is like,

1223
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 1: can you, like, can you contribute so that we can

1224
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 1: take care of mom? And he's like, well, I don't know,

1225
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: like you could always just fire Lorraine, And I was like, uh, okay,

1226
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: So there's the line. So it's like acknowledged and never again.

1227
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I understand like why those decisions

1228
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: are made. But it did make sense to me that

1229
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 1: that was like expanded upon in the book, like that

1230
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: tension of like, yes, we do consider you a member

1231
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: of our family, but there are these like dynamics where

1232
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: she was spoken about behind her back as expendable.

1233
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 3: Basically I will say he did respond and say she's family. Yeah,

1234
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 3: I put a button on that like which which which?

1235
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 4: Try? I put it down real quick and it's funny.

1236
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 3: Well, then the other part if you think about the

1237
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 3: fact that she marries Maynard and then no longer is

1238
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 3: living in this life of servitude because marriage is the

1239
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 3: thing that gets her out of that life, which I mean,

1240
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 3: there's something to be said there about the terms of

1241
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 3: like her class changed, Yeah, my marriage, which is an

1242
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 3: old school way of thinking, but it's also very true

1243
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 3: for a lot of women generally, and especially in some

1244
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 3: cases for black women.

1245
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: Right, And it's like again, I'm like, it's so And

1246
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: maybe it's because like Percival Everet's writing style is so

1247
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: like uh like pointy. That's a terrible adjective, but like

1248
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 1: very like blunt. That having those plot points like present

1249
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 1: but not quite as blunt was like interesting because yeah,

1250
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 1: I mean it's we live in a society, and I

1251
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: was like, God, I just wish we knew a little

1252
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 1: bit more about like Lorraine's interior life. I love that

1253
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 1: she gets a love story and that she is like

1254
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 1: celebrated and like surrounded by people who love her. But yeah,

1255
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:55,840
Speaker 1: I think that was like really the only thing in

1256
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 1: this movie that I was like, I wonder why we

1257
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:59,560
Speaker 1: didn't get into that a little bit more because money

1258
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:02,120
Speaker 1: in class are like very much on the table for

1259
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:02,919
Speaker 1: this whole movie.

1260
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, I was gonna say that. I

1261
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 2: did really appreciate the movie sets aside time to show

1262
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 2: a romance between Lorraine and Maynard, because you almost never

1263
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 2: see an on screen love story between two older people,

1264
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 2: let alone to older black people. So the fact that

1265
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 2: that's there was very refreshing. Yeah, the class situation there

1266
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 2: did feel skimmed over.

1267
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: I mean, like one movie can't do anything, but I

1268
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 1: just because it was dealt with in the source material,

1269
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 1: felt worth mentioning for sure.

1270
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 2: Also, there's a part where they're talking about what it's

1271
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:47,600
Speaker 2: going to cost per month for Agnes to live in

1272
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 2: assisted living, and different numbers get thrown around, but it's

1273
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:54,959
Speaker 2: going to cost at least like five thousand dollars a month,

1274
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 2: which is so much money, and Cliff says something like, well,

1275
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 2: doesn't Medicare take care of that? And Monk goes like, well,

1276
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 2: that's not how it works. You're a doctor, shouldn't you

1277
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 2: know that? And he's like, man, I know. But like

1278
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 2: that also felt so real for me because the number

1279
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 2: of doctors I've talked to who don't seem to understand

1280
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 2: how like insurance and billing works, and they completely they're like, oh,

1281
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 2: you can't afford this, well darn, I don't know. Can

1282
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 2: you call your insurance company? And it's just like, why

1283
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:26,640
Speaker 2: don't you know this?

1284
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:30,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're very That's.

1285
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:33,599
Speaker 2: A tiny, tiny moment, but yeah, I wanted to point

1286
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:34,680
Speaker 2: that out for sure, I.

1287
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:36,640
Speaker 1: Mean, and it is. It is a nice facility. And

1288
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: I did appreciate that they put actual numbers in there too,

1289
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 1: because for people who have never I mean including myself,

1290
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:48,560
Speaker 1: like I've never had been involved in the finances of

1291
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: helping a relative get into a facility, and like having

1292
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 1: those numbers, like as blunt as they are, I feel

1293
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 1: like it's always a good thing. Yeah, because it's terrifying.

1294
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,759
Speaker 1: You're like, Yeah, who the fuck can afford that? Everyone

1295
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 1: would have to sell out their morals and write their

1296
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 1: version of fuck to be able to afford that.

1297
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 2: Truly. Yeah, can we talk about the other women in

1298
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 2: this story, Jamie? You alluded to this already, but to me,

1299
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 2: it felt like I don't think the characters were undercooked,

1300
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 2: but it felt like a lot of the storylines either

1301
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 2: kind of went unresolved or they just sort of tapered off,

1302
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:37,799
Speaker 2: or we didn't get as much emphasis on the characters

1303
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 2: who are women as I would have liked. But as

1304
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 2: we said, like, Lisa's such a great character, I know,

1305
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 2: but then she has an untimely death corline. I also

1306
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,599
Speaker 2: really enjoy her as a character, and I don't mind

1307
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 2: that she doesn't that like she and Monk don't make

1308
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 2: up because he was being a fucking asshole and she

1309
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,680
Speaker 2: doesn't owe him anything, she doesn't have to forgive him,

1310
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 2: and in the scope of this story that we see

1311
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 2: on screen, she doesn't forgive him and there isn't any

1312
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 2: closure there, which again is fine, but also then that

1313
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,600
Speaker 2: means her character just sort of disappears.

1314
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 1: Well. It's also when we get information about her at

1315
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 1: the beginning, like in her introductory scene basically where like

1316
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 1: she is a lawyer. She talks about like how she

1317
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: feels about the ethics of defending, like being a public

1318
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 1: defender defending guilty people. We find out that she is

1319
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 1: in the process of like either a long term relationship

1320
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: or a divorce like happening. But I wouldn't say any

1321
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 1: of that information is relevant in future scenes, Like I

1322
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: appreciate that we learn things about her, but it is

1323
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 1: not really plot relevant information, which is always kind of

1324
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 1: like a tiny red flag for me and writing women

1325
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: characters in the modern day, where it's like, oh, we

1326
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:55,880
Speaker 1: can't tell you nothing about her, Let's just tell you

1327
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff that doesn't matter. You're like, okay,

1328
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 1: it's a little thing. But I was like I liked

1329
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 1: getting to know her at the first scene and then

1330
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 1: but then she does sort of just become a girlfriend

1331
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 1: for the remainder of the movie, I.

1332
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 3: Think for me, in contrast to Tracy Ellis Ross, who

1333
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 3: comes in strong and is abruptly taken away from us,

1334
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 3: the way that Rika Alexander is introduced is kind of

1335
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:26,600
Speaker 3: is a little bit more. It's she's she's mixed in

1336
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:28,640
Speaker 3: a little bit more like we get some of her,

1337
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 3: we get more of her, and we get more and

1338
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 3: more of her until we get basically get less of

1339
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 3: her towards the end.

1340
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 4: And I feel like there's and maybe this is.

1341
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 3: Because I love these women so much in terms of

1342
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 3: their bodies of work that for me, I'm like, I'm

1343
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:46,080
Speaker 3: just every time they're on screen, I'm happy to see them,

1344
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 3: which kind of made me not think nearly as much

1345
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 3: about the ways in which they were, in some cases

1346
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 3: used or underdeveloped as plot devices for the journey that

1347
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 3: Monk is going on, because there's there's no reason for

1348
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 3: you to make a movie like this and not be

1349
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 3: able to have fully fleshed out women characters that are

1350
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:09,559
Speaker 3: doing something. But it seemed like all of the women

1351
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 3: were doing one thing collectively for Monk, whereas it was

1352
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:18,639
Speaker 3: about his relationship with his mother, his relationship with Lorraine,

1353
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 3: his relationship with his sister, and his relationship with Erica,

1354
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:24,600
Speaker 3: and all of those served one purpose as opposed to

1355
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 3: breaking them out and making them a lot more unique.

1356
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 3: In terms of a feat of casting, watching this film,

1357
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 3: I loved seeing all of these women, But in terms

1358
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:36,679
Speaker 3: of the story, it is a little bit like, hmm,

1359
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 3: there could have been more here, But I don't know

1360
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 3: how I would fix it if I were him, because

1361
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:45,599
Speaker 3: that's not the story that he wanted to tell, right Well.

1362
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 2: I mean a lot of movies that do what this

1363
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 2: movie is doing, which is, you know, examining some societal

1364
01:12:54,520 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 2: issue or satirizing something or you know, putting some societal

1365
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 2: ill under the magnifying glass. A lot of movies that

1366
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 2: do that will criticize it, but then ultimately still end

1367
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 2: up doing the thing because of the way the story

1368
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 2: is told or whatever. This movie doesn't do that because,

1369
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 2: in addition to providing the commentary about underdeveloped and stereotypical

1370
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 2: Black characters in media, it also avoids the stereotypes and

1371
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 2: develops its characters and gives all of those characters interior lives.

1372
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 2: And arcs, even though you know some of them are small,

1373
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 2: but that's the thing, Like they're little subplots in a

1374
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:42,880
Speaker 2: larger story that is about Monk and his work. Right,

1375
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 2: So I feel like this is one of the few

1376
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:49,760
Speaker 2: movies I have seen actually that like doesn't criticize or

1377
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,560
Speaker 2: satirize the thing and then also end up doing the

1378
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 2: bad thing. So it can be done for sure. I

1379
01:13:57,960 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 2: feel like we've come up We've talked about a lot

1380
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 2: of movies like that on this podcast, where it's like, well,

1381
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 2: it's like criticizing the thing, but it's also still doing

1382
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 2: the thing. But this movie doesn't do that, and I

1383
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:12,120
Speaker 2: appreciate that. And so yeah, the fact that we get

1384
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 2: like we get a little arc for Cliff a queer

1385
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 2: black man, we get an arc for for Coraline, and

1386
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:22,640
Speaker 2: it's in the context of her relationship with Monk, but

1387
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 2: you know, there we get to know her character a bit.

1388
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 2: We get a small arc for Agnes kind of again,

1389
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 2: that's that feels like it goes sort of unresolved.

1390
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:35,599
Speaker 3: But well, I think they assume that money money solves

1391
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 3: that problem, so right, they're like, if if he has

1392
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 3: more money, then obviously this problem is solved, which is

1393
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:47,280
Speaker 3: we we don't get the full resolution, especially because we

1394
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 3: think about the same between Agnes and Cliff with they're

1395
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 3: dancing in the in the home and she says she

1396
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:56,679
Speaker 3: says to him, I knew you wasn't queer or something

1397
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 3: like that where I was just like, oh my god,

1398
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 3: and and and sterly Kate Brown acts it so well

1399
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 3: as he wells up with tears and leaves, but we

1400
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:06,960
Speaker 3: don't really get a resolution there either. But you also

1401
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:08,960
Speaker 3: get an understanding of why maybe he doesn't want to

1402
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,560
Speaker 3: be around his mother, even if she does have Alzheimer's.

1403
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 3: But you're right, it's not since we don't see her anymore.

1404
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 3: Even though she has these like lines where she's like

1405
01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 3: saying such profound things like she talked about her husband

1406
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:24,680
Speaker 3: and says and says like that, there's a story in

1407
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 3: there when she says I knew he was cheating on me,

1408
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 3: and he goes, why did you leave her?

1409
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 4: Leave him?

1410
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 3: And she says, I do, he would be too lonely

1411
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:36,000
Speaker 3: if I left. I was like, Yo, that is wow,

1412
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 3: I know so much there.

1413
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:43,040
Speaker 2: You know, Boomers, Boomers, what we do see in these

1414
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:48,960
Speaker 2: characters feels so familiar with what we all experience as

1415
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:53,600
Speaker 2: humans in our relationships with our family and our romantic relationships,

1416
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 2: and even if they seem like they go unresolved in

1417
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 2: the context of a story, that's also how a lot

1418
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:04,400
Speaker 2: of relationships end up like they There isn't like a neat,

1419
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:10,679
Speaker 2: tidy resolution. There isn't like this amazing closure. So because

1420
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 2: we get so much insight into these characters and their

1421
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:20,360
Speaker 2: philosophies about life and their feelings and their regrets. There's

1422
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 2: also that scene where Cliff is talking to Monk and

1423
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 2: he's saying, how he he resents that that their father

1424
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 2: died before Cliff came out to him.

1425
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's that's the Oscar nomination scene, right,

1426
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 1: It's a great scene.

1427
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 2: And Monk is saying like, well, what if he rejected you?

1428
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 2: And Cliff's like, well, I would have rather him reject

1429
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 2: the real me than him not knowing who I actually am.

1430
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so with that though, and I am gonna

1431
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 1: like a little I still feel like and again it's

1432
01:16:56,120 --> 01:17:00,200
Speaker 1: like because of it's being adapted from another source, it's

1433
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 1: difficult because it seems like the structure of the story

1434
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:07,400
Speaker 1: being adapted is like there is a woman involved in

1435
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 1: like each area of Monk's life, and Monk is the

1436
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:13,760
Speaker 1: main character, so it's just like there's not a lot

1437
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 1: of women in rooms together because they tend to either

1438
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: want like I have no issue with like, you know,

1439
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 1: like not every thread being completely tied up by the

1440
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:25,160
Speaker 1: end of the movie, because that's life and it feels

1441
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 1: very in step with what the movie is. But I

1442
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 1: do feel like, you know, that scene with Cliff is

1443
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 1: so profound and so good, and I wish that there

1444
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: were more scenes like that with the many women who

1445
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:41,320
Speaker 1: we meet throughout this movie. I think, I mean, I

1446
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 1: think Ronald like echoing what you were saying about Agnes

1447
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:48,600
Speaker 1: is scene talking about putting up with her husband's infidelities

1448
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:50,840
Speaker 1: for like this very like I don't know, like heart

1449
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 1: wrenching reason like those are. That's a really strong moment,

1450
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 1: and I you know, I just think that this story

1451
01:17:57,439 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 1: in general does favor those kinds of realizations for its

1452
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:06,879
Speaker 1: male characters. Yeah, which is like, you know, not unusual,

1453
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 1: but it's just I think it stands out to me

1454
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:12,000
Speaker 1: here because we have not just a lot of women

1455
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 1: in the story, but a lot of like heavy hitters

1456
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 1: where I'm like, I wanted that scene for you know,

1457
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 1: Eric Alexander, I don't know. I did feel like we

1458
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 1: there had to be a way to get these women

1459
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 1: in the room with each other more. But I mean

1460
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:29,639
Speaker 1: we also have Sinara, who we haven't talked about yet.

1461
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 2: Yes, ooh uh. Like I mentioned that, I wrote out

1462
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:37,840
Speaker 2: pretty much that entire scene where she and Monk are

1463
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 2: talking as they're like evaluating the different books for the

1464
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 2: Literary Awards, and you know, she says, I think that

1465
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:53,679
Speaker 2: the book Fuck is pandering and soulless, and Monk is like, exactly,

1466
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 2: but no offense. How is that different from your book

1467
01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 2: We's Lives in the Ghetto And she's like, well, I

1468
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 2: did a lot of research from my book, and I

1469
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:06,639
Speaker 2: pulled from real people's interviews and experiences, and even though

1470
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:10,519
Speaker 2: that's not my personal experience, I write about what interests people.

1471
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:14,280
Speaker 2: And he's like, well, you're catering to like these white

1472
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 2: publishers who are obsessed with black trauma porn. And she

1473
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 2: defends her choices about she says, that's.

1474
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:24,880
Speaker 3: That's what the market wants. And that's where I thought

1475
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 3: the line of hypocrisy existed here because for me, the

1476
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 3: biggest I think the As that conversation is happening, she says,

1477
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:36,280
Speaker 3: what the market wants. But she ends up putting a

1478
01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:39,639
Speaker 3: button on that scene by saying potential because he says,

1479
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 3: I just think black people have more potential than that,

1480
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:45,200
Speaker 3: and she says potential is what people saying when people

1481
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:47,560
Speaker 3: think what's in front of them isn't good enough. And

1482
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 3: it was a dunk line, but I remember saying, you

1483
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 3: don't deserve that line because you can't even see. If

1484
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:58,600
Speaker 3: you could see that his book is pandering, then you

1485
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 3: have to see out your book, even if it was

1486
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 3: well researched, is also pandering. But I think both of

1487
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:09,439
Speaker 3: them were such imperfect vessels to deliver the point that

1488
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 3: they end up talking past each other in this incredible

1489
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 3: way that again ultimately made me more frustrated than satisfied.

1490
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:18,839
Speaker 4: But it was interesting.

1491
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 1: I watched that scene like a couple times, and I

1492
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 1: totally agree with like you're like, okay, no one is

1493
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:31,679
Speaker 1: like definitively right, Like they're both like, which is like awesome,

1494
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:34,280
Speaker 1: And I just I hope that like audience members like

1495
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 1: register that because you're like, there are so many great

1496
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 1: lines and you're like, well sure, but like, are you

1497
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 1: the ideal person to be saying that? It's because they're

1498
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:44,439
Speaker 1: both at the end of the day, and it's like

1499
01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 1: this is something that we should all talk about and

1500
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:48,400
Speaker 1: be aware of. It's like, at the end of the day,

1501
01:20:48,439 --> 01:20:51,320
Speaker 1: they're both trying to make a living doing this, and

1502
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:55,639
Speaker 1: so like, I don't know, yeah, Centaro was so interesting

1503
01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 1: and I really liked that, you know, you see, and

1504
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:01,479
Speaker 1: it's mostly like just in Jeffrey writes performance of like

1505
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,599
Speaker 1: just watching him listen to her of like, oh fuck,

1506
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:08,479
Speaker 1: I like her, you know, like even though clearly like

1507
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 1: they are not on board with what the other is

1508
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:14,000
Speaker 1: doing and they find each other to be pandering in

1509
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:19,120
Speaker 1: different ways, but like, yeah, I mean, Cintaura is clearly

1510
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 1: like a really smart, really good writer who it's just like,

1511
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 1: all right, come on, like, admit you're doing it a

1512
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 1: little bit too, like everyone is complicit in and it's

1513
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 1: like in this capitalist art structure.

1514
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:33,800
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1515
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:36,920
Speaker 1: It's a great scene though, it's so good. She's saying

1516
01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:37,639
Speaker 1: the right things.

1517
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:40,439
Speaker 3: Did y'all notice also that this is just a small thing,

1518
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 3: just like like, as a black person, I got really

1519
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:45,560
Speaker 3: excited the fact that they don't disparage each other in

1520
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:49,800
Speaker 3: front of white people, like they were disagreed that there.

1521
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:52,360
Speaker 3: But as soon as the white woman came back into

1522
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 3: the room, they stopped talking, and then also when they

1523
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,360
Speaker 3: pick up the conversation again, they are still united that

1524
01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:01,720
Speaker 3: this book should not win, which even though they they've

1525
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 3: dug into it for the right, for the wrong reasons, whatever,

1526
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 3: they both agree on that thing, and that's the front

1527
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:09,000
Speaker 3: that they present, which I'm like, that is that is

1528
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 3: real being black. There are something just so many times

1529
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 3: but I'm just like, I don't like this thing, but

1530
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:17,760
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna tell y'all the reason why, or I'm

1531
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 3: not gonna They're certainly not gonna dunkle my brother here

1532
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 3: because we we we we have work to do here

1533
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:23,519
Speaker 3: or whatever.

1534
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:24,920
Speaker 4: But I really appreciated that.

1535
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, the button on that scene is so funny because

1536
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 2: you know, they've they've just had this very intellectual and

1537
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:37,840
Speaker 2: very nuanced conversation. The white woman comes in like completely clueless, like, oh,

1538
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 2: so what are we talking about?

1539
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 1: Another moment where were like, oh no, is that me? Hi? Everybody?

1540
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 2: I know, I'm like, oh no, has this been men

1541
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 2: statistically very it's been like that.

1542
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that scene is really really Uh. I feel like

1543
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:00,439
Speaker 1: Ray's performance in this movie is very to rate it

1544
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:03,720
Speaker 1: very good because that to me. I'm like, that's an

1545
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:06,120
Speaker 1: Oscar nomination scene just as much as the Sterling K

1546
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 1: brown Wood is. It's it's really really good.

1547
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:08,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1548
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:12,320
Speaker 2: Also the moment as they're talking when he's saying like,

1549
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:16,880
Speaker 2: your writing is reductive and it like flattens black people

1550
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 2: as a whole, and she says, well, do you get

1551
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 2: angry at Brett Easton Ellis or Charles Bukowski for writing

1552
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 2: about the down trodden? Or is your ire strictly reserved

1553
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:30,439
Speaker 2: for black women? And then he's like no, and she's like,

1554
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 2: you're directing your frustration at the wrong people. It sounds

1555
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:35,400
Speaker 2: like you have a problem with white people trying to

1556
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:39,639
Speaker 2: uphold the status quo rather than me and my work.

1557
01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:44,679
Speaker 2: So just a few other because again, there's so many

1558
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:48,240
Speaker 2: good lines of dialogue or just great moments in this

1559
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:51,240
Speaker 2: movie that I want to shout out. The scene where

1560
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:55,920
Speaker 2: Monk goes into probably like a Barnes and Noble or

1561
01:23:56,000 --> 01:24:01,639
Speaker 2: something and he discovers that his all of his novels

1562
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:07,679
Speaker 2: are in the African American studies section, and uh, he's

1563
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 2: like kind of badgering the sales clerk and he's just like,

1564
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 2: I don't I don't choose where the books go, and

1565
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 2: then Monk takes all of his books and I think

1566
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:20,800
Speaker 2: just like categorizes them in like the regular fiction section.

1567
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:24,679
Speaker 1: Uh, it's so good, it's so good again. I feel

1568
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:28,720
Speaker 1: like applies to a wide variety of experiences too, where

1569
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:32,880
Speaker 1: it's like, why is this book being categorized as not

1570
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:37,920
Speaker 1: well whatever? Like how generally white authors and white male

1571
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:40,880
Speaker 1: authors specifically are the ones who are categorized as like

1572
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:44,720
Speaker 1: general fiction. But if you are marginalized in any way,

1573
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:47,559
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're in a Monk situation where

1574
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:50,439
Speaker 1: you're being put in African American fiction. You're being put

1575
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:53,679
Speaker 1: in like women's studies. I've once found my book about

1576
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:57,160
Speaker 1: hot dogs in women's studies. It was like, excuse me.

1577
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 4: Like adults, what are you talking about?

1578
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 1: It's just you're like, it's it's niche, because your niche.

1579
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:11,439
Speaker 1: And I've loved that scene of him stomping around with

1580
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:14,760
Speaker 1: forty copies of the has what what was it called again,

1581
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 1: being like this is for everyone, this is great.

1582
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:26,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, loved that. Loved just all the scenes with the

1583
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:31,679
Speaker 2: the white people at the publishing company when they're like, yeah,

1584
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 2: we're this book is so important and so brave, and

1585
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:38,479
Speaker 2: we're going to release it on Juneteenth, and yeah, it

1586
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 2: should be called fuck. That's actually that's a great title

1587
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 2: for a book.

1588
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:45,200
Speaker 1: Like literally, I mean, there's one line where one of

1589
01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 1: the guys is like, honestly that this would be a

1590
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:50,080
Speaker 1: great time to capitalize on white guilt and that'll help

1591
01:25:50,160 --> 01:25:54,160
Speaker 1: move copies. And it's like, even though they're so cartoony

1592
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:57,479
Speaker 1: in certain points, like what they're saying is very self aware.

1593
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:01,599
Speaker 1: They know exactly what they're doing, and yeah, it's ugly.

1594
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:06,559
Speaker 2: Also, the movie that Wiley character is currently directing called

1595
01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:09,679
Speaker 2: Plantation Annihilation or my God.

1596
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 3: They got went in on Ryan Reynolds were talking about

1597
01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:14,360
Speaker 3: it was one thing me seeing it on the chairs,

1598
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 3: I was like, this is hilarious.

1599
01:26:16,439 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 4: This is hilarious.

1600
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 1: It was great, I mean, and it's super fast. But

1601
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:23,800
Speaker 1: they were like, oh and Ryan Reynolds, isn't it because

1602
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 1: Ryan Reynoldsn'tlake Lively famously got married on a plantation and

1603
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 1: will never have to stop apologizing for it because that's

1604
01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:32,720
Speaker 1: fucking unhinged.

1605
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:37,040
Speaker 3: I will say, white folks at the time that they

1606
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:40,200
Speaker 3: got buried out of Plantation, a lot more white folks

1607
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:43,080
Speaker 3: than just them were getting married on plantations, and no

1608
01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:45,720
Speaker 3: one saw it as an issue until someone was like, Hey,

1609
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:48,600
Speaker 3: why y'all get married on Plantations, And then everyone immediately

1610
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:51,000
Speaker 3: was like, oh no, we definitely.

1611
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:57,599
Speaker 1: He's in like twenty twelve. It was shockingly recent. Anyways,

1612
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:00,560
Speaker 1: I just I liked that, especially like in I don't know,

1613
01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:02,840
Speaker 1: I just thought that was like really ballsy and cool

1614
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:05,840
Speaker 1: to take a swipe at one of the world's most

1615
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 1: famous actors in your first movie rocked. Yeah. Yeah.

1616
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 2: Also, the plot of Plantation annihilation sort of sounds like

1617
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:17,840
Speaker 2: the plot of Titanic two or no Titanic three, sorry,

1618
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:20,759
Speaker 2: Titanic six six six, Oh yes.

1619
01:27:21,439 --> 01:27:26,320
Speaker 1: Starring another member of the girlfriend's cast, I believe, unfortunately

1620
01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:30,400
Speaker 1: for her. Oh my gosh, Keisha Sharp Yeah right. In

1621
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:33,760
Speaker 1: Titanic six x six what can you look? Look?

1622
01:27:34,439 --> 01:27:37,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, a movie about the ghosts of all the people

1623
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:43,160
Speaker 2: who were killed on the Titanic coming back and murdering

1624
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:46,760
Speaker 2: the passengers of a ship called Titanic.

1625
01:27:46,439 --> 01:27:48,240
Speaker 1: Three to the original, I believe.

1626
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:52,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes, really fine filmmaking. We can all agree.

1627
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:54,599
Speaker 1: Hy Look, look, I had a good time. I think

1628
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:57,280
Speaker 1: about it more than many good movies I've seen, So.

1629
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:02,120
Speaker 4: That what you will, that's metric?

1630
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:05,240
Speaker 1: Am I thinking about it?

1631
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:07,240
Speaker 2: Yes, it's always top of mind.

1632
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:10,040
Speaker 4: I think more about memes that that I do about

1633
01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:10,839
Speaker 4: Oscar winners.

1634
01:28:14,200 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yeah. Does anyone else have any any other

1635
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:20,280
Speaker 1: thoughts on American fiction?

1636
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 4: I think we did it.

1637
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:26,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yeah, just that, Like, I really appreciate

1638
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:32,840
Speaker 2: what this movie is doing, criticizing the stereotypical narratives about

1639
01:28:32,920 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 2: Black Americans that white people and the media keep insisting

1640
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:43,120
Speaker 2: on perpetuating and trying to capitalize on their obsession with

1641
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:48,360
Speaker 2: stories about black suffering, the expectations that they put on

1642
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:51,680
Speaker 2: Black creatives that they can only tell certain types of

1643
01:28:51,920 --> 01:28:56,200
Speaker 2: stories about certain types of characters, and monk being like,

1644
01:28:56,840 --> 01:28:59,519
Speaker 2: let me let me write my books about like that

1645
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:04,000
Speaker 2: are at aations of Greek tragedies or whatever I mean.

1646
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:06,920
Speaker 1: Truly, it's like it's there's whatever I mean, something we've

1647
01:29:06,920 --> 01:29:09,120
Speaker 1: talked about in the show many times of like how

1648
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:14,120
Speaker 1: any marginalized community, but very often black writers and creatives

1649
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:19,600
Speaker 1: specifically are like expected to write autobiographically or from the

1650
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:22,519
Speaker 1: perspective of their own community and aren't just able to

1651
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:25,639
Speaker 1: write stories whatever the fuck they want to write about,

1652
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:29,200
Speaker 1: which is what actual creative equity looks like, is what

1653
01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 1: do you want to write? About what are you interested in?

1654
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:34,920
Speaker 1: And there's the book. And I really appreciate Monks even

1655
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 1: though it's like the way he expresses it is often misguided,

1656
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 1: but like I agree with that, Like that that's what

1657
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:45,519
Speaker 1: is creative equality if like you know, write about write

1658
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:48,640
Speaker 1: from you know, your own perspective if you want to.

1659
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:53,360
Speaker 1: But like that shouldn't be the expectation for any artist,

1660
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:56,240
Speaker 1: for sure. I just wanted to shout out also that

1661
01:29:56,360 --> 01:29:59,639
Speaker 1: there's unusual. I was looking at the behind the scenes,

1662
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:03,320
Speaker 1: the crew, and there are a lot of women and

1663
01:30:03,439 --> 01:30:06,320
Speaker 1: women of color involved behind the scenes in a way

1664
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:08,560
Speaker 1: that you don't normally see in movies. We have a

1665
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:11,920
Speaker 1: woman's cinematographer, edited by a woman, scored by a woman.

1666
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:18,240
Speaker 1: So just shout out because that is still so rare

1667
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:20,360
Speaker 1: in big movies. Totally.

1668
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think generally it's this is a movie that

1669
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:25,880
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it when it came out. I enjoyed the

1670
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:28,080
Speaker 3: Oscar run, and I really felt like it was all

1671
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:33,000
Speaker 3: capped by Core Jefferson's speech, which was again he says

1672
01:30:33,960 --> 01:30:36,080
Speaker 3: it was something along the lines of, Hey, have y'all

1673
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:38,400
Speaker 3: ever considered that you could just give a little money

1674
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:41,800
Speaker 3: to someone to make a better movie, rather than giving

1675
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:44,240
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of money to someone to make a

1676
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:46,880
Speaker 3: terrible movie, like what if you broke that budget up?

1677
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:49,920
Speaker 3: Like basically, that was the speech that he gave, which

1678
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:52,040
Speaker 3: I felt like to use his platform at that moment

1679
01:30:52,439 --> 01:30:56,040
Speaker 3: for that was just excellent. And I think a lot

1680
01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:57,840
Speaker 3: of this movie, the way it was made, the way

1681
01:30:57,880 --> 01:30:59,800
Speaker 3: it was written, the way it all comes together, was

1682
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 3: just very indicative of who I assume that Core Jefferson

1683
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:08,400
Speaker 3: is as a person. And ultimately it was a very satisfying.

1684
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:08,360
Speaker 4: Film for me.

1685
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:12,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really hope that he makes more movies and

1686
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 1: gets the funding to make more movies.

1687
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:16,320
Speaker 4: He's not asking for much.

1688
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:17,679
Speaker 1: He really isn't.

1689
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:18,960
Speaker 2: He really isn't.

1690
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:21,960
Speaker 1: But it's like, thinking of that, I was like, God,

1691
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:24,280
Speaker 1: how many butts were clenched when he was like, you

1692
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:27,040
Speaker 1: you don't need to spend three hundred million dollars on

1693
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:27,920
Speaker 1: a piece of shit.

1694
01:31:28,160 --> 01:31:31,600
Speaker 2: I'm almost like, no, we do? We really do? We

1695
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:33,479
Speaker 2: have to make more Marvel movies?

1696
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:37,000
Speaker 4: Yeah? Oh, speaking of which, y'all. Oh, no, I'm sorry.

1697
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:39,800
Speaker 4: I went to fred Bode not work Bow, but watch

1698
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:40,320
Speaker 4: wonder Man.

1699
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 1: The oh.

1700
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 2: I watched the first two episodes so far, and I'm

1701
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:46,519
Speaker 2: really enjoying it two years of TV to.

1702
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:49,920
Speaker 4: Catch up on Jamie. Prioritize it, Okay, prioritize it to

1703
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:50,639
Speaker 4: put this on the top.

1704
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:52,400
Speaker 1: I just got sick. This is a great time for

1705
01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:53,160
Speaker 1: me to watch TV.

1706
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:56,040
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, this will make you feel better.

1707
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:57,280
Speaker 1: This will heal.

1708
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:02,439
Speaker 2: The movie does pass the Bechtel test in that scene

1709
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:07,920
Speaker 2: that we mentioned earlier between Agnes and Coraline where they

1710
01:32:07,960 --> 01:32:10,520
Speaker 2: are both happy that Coraline is not white.

1711
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:14,240
Speaker 1: Which is an excellent, excellent, excellent pass. It could have

1712
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 1: passed more, but we've kind of talked through that at

1713
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:16,599
Speaker 1: this point.

1714
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 2: As far as our nipple scale, where we rate the

1715
01:32:19,439 --> 01:32:22,120
Speaker 2: movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based

1716
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:26,439
Speaker 2: on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I think

1717
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:32,120
Speaker 2: because this movie accomplishes so much in its examination of

1718
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:38,240
Speaker 2: how black characters and black stories are represented in mainstream

1719
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:42,479
Speaker 2: media in the US, and has so many interesting and

1720
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:45,680
Speaker 2: poignant things to say about it. Not me being like

1721
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 2: the like white judge on the panel or like that

1722
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:55,439
Speaker 2: white publisher lady. This is such an important film and

1723
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:56,280
Speaker 2: it's so brave.

1724
01:32:58,200 --> 01:32:59,880
Speaker 1: It's like it's giving the blour person.

1725
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:03,400
Speaker 2: Sorry, sorry, Ronald, can you can you be quiet? Will

1726
01:33:03,479 --> 01:33:10,680
Speaker 2: I am saying this, but no, I do truly love

1727
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:15,120
Speaker 2: this movie, and I think it's so awesome and funny

1728
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:17,960
Speaker 2: and it's accomplishing a lot. So I will give it

1729
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:23,519
Speaker 2: four nipples, I think again docking it a little bit

1730
01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:29,120
Speaker 2: for not I think including the characters who are women

1731
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:32,320
Speaker 2: and their relationships with each other as much as I

1732
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:35,680
Speaker 2: feel like it could have, it feels like there was

1733
01:33:35,800 --> 01:33:38,800
Speaker 2: room for it. But yeah, it's it's also it's doing

1734
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:43,360
Speaker 2: so much else. So four nipples, and I will distribute

1735
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:51,160
Speaker 2: them among Tracey Ellis, ross Issa ray Erica Alexander. I'll

1736
01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:54,840
Speaker 2: give a half nipple to Keith David and his brief

1737
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:59,639
Speaker 2: cameo in the movie, and I'll give my other half

1738
01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:04,120
Speaker 2: nipple to Sterling K. Brown, my longtime crush.

1739
01:34:05,120 --> 01:34:09,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be slightly pedantic and do three point seventy five.

1740
01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:14,920
Speaker 1: I'm taking the little nipple slicer out just very saw,

1741
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:16,560
Speaker 1: which is very Jigsaw of me to do.

1742
01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:19,360
Speaker 2: I've like, I don't know.

1743
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:25,280
Speaker 1: My two gripes with this movie are, yeah, that we

1744
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:27,800
Speaker 1: have so many great women characters and we learn about them,

1745
01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:32,439
Speaker 1: But I think I'm most specifically thinking about Coraline, where

1746
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:34,160
Speaker 1: we do learn a lot about her, but kind of

1747
01:34:34,240 --> 01:34:37,960
Speaker 1: for no reason, and I just wish that she, you know,

1748
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:40,800
Speaker 1: had a little more to do that wasn't girlfriend dot

1749
01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:45,559
Speaker 1: jpeg coded. But yeah, that said, there are a lot

1750
01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:50,000
Speaker 1: of really rich characters throughout this movie. You can't give

1751
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:52,559
Speaker 1: everyone an arc. I get it, I'm just being picky.

1752
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:57,639
Speaker 1: That and the Lorraine class element are the two things

1753
01:34:57,680 --> 01:35:01,920
Speaker 1: that like stuck out to me. But also, like you're saying, Kaitlin,

1754
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:04,560
Speaker 1: this movie is doing so much. It is not the

1755
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:09,160
Speaker 1: job of one movie to address every single intersection of identity,

1756
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:12,120
Speaker 1: and this movie is doing a ton while being what

1757
01:35:12,320 --> 01:35:16,320
Speaker 1: movies rarely are, which is very funny and like all

1758
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:20,000
Speaker 1: the performances are so like every character gets a great

1759
01:35:20,200 --> 01:35:24,439
Speaker 1: comedic moment, and yeah, it's a good movie.

1760
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:25,040
Speaker 2: It was.

1761
01:35:25,160 --> 01:35:27,120
Speaker 1: It was fun to revisit for this and I hope

1762
01:35:27,160 --> 01:35:30,000
Speaker 1: that people keep talking about it so Core Jefferson can

1763
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:32,560
Speaker 1: make more movies. Indeed, so I'm going to give it

1764
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:35,840
Speaker 1: three point seven five and I'm giving I'm giving them

1765
01:35:35,920 --> 01:35:39,080
Speaker 1: all to doctor Lisa Ellison, my favorite character.

1766
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:42,960
Speaker 3: Oh rip, I would give it four nipples as well.

1767
01:35:43,840 --> 01:35:46,559
Speaker 3: There's parts of it, even watching it a second time

1768
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:48,840
Speaker 3: where I was just like, there's some some pacing issues

1769
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:52,600
Speaker 3: sometimes where it slows down and I kind of like

1770
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:54,639
Speaker 3: begin to say, where are we going? Can we speed

1771
01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:57,040
Speaker 3: this up? Can we bring this more tightly together? It's

1772
01:35:57,080 --> 01:35:58,800
Speaker 3: about a two hour movie. I don't know if it

1773
01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:01,680
Speaker 3: needed all two of those hours. It's an hour and

1774
01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:02,360
Speaker 3: fifty six.

1775
01:36:02,680 --> 01:36:05,040
Speaker 4: I was like, you probably gonna cut that down somewhere

1776
01:36:05,320 --> 01:36:06,960
Speaker 4: a few of these scenes that.

1777
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:08,599
Speaker 2: Which is many such movies.

1778
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:08,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1779
01:36:09,320 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm just a guy that like when I

1780
01:36:11,040 --> 01:36:13,559
Speaker 3: think about timing, I always think about Diehard, where it's

1781
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:16,519
Speaker 3: a Swiss watch. Everything that starts is something that ends,

1782
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:19,400
Speaker 3: and everything that if you start a beat, you ended here.

1783
01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:22,559
Speaker 4: All of that. I want that. But that being said,

1784
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:27,639
Speaker 4: great movie for nipples. I would evenly distribute the nipples

1785
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:30,920
Speaker 4: amongst everyone black in this film.

1786
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:34,280
Speaker 3: As Lisa Ray says, I'm rotty for everyone black. And

1787
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:37,439
Speaker 3: I think everyone that showed up clocked in and did

1788
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:41,280
Speaker 3: their jobs. And I think there was not one person

1789
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:44,200
Speaker 3: that I was not happy to see on screen, even

1790
01:36:44,240 --> 01:36:47,240
Speaker 3: down to Maynard and Lorraine, where I'm just happy to

1791
01:36:47,280 --> 01:36:50,120
Speaker 3: see them, happy to see them find each other, even

1792
01:36:50,160 --> 01:36:53,640
Speaker 3: when he's wearing his uniform at the wedding. Like it

1793
01:36:53,760 --> 01:36:56,200
Speaker 3: was just very very cute and adorable, and I just

1794
01:36:56,520 --> 01:36:59,000
Speaker 3: everyone did a great job. They really clocked in, came

1795
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:01,720
Speaker 3: to work, And it's an argument for we should be

1796
01:37:01,800 --> 01:37:05,640
Speaker 3: saying more Erica Alexander, more Tracy Ellis ross uh and

1797
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:08,479
Speaker 3: the fact that we're not more Issa Ray even in

1798
01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:12,240
Speaker 3: acting in roles like this, Three women who still have

1799
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:15,400
Speaker 3: so much to give us, give them more opportunities to

1800
01:37:15,479 --> 01:37:18,360
Speaker 3: give us more of this. I will never have to

1801
01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:20,639
Speaker 3: say that about Jeffrey Wright or still in Kay Brown.

1802
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 3: Those men have been working and will continue to work

1803
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:26,439
Speaker 3: for for years to come. But these are three women

1804
01:37:26,479 --> 01:37:28,920
Speaker 3: that I would love to see more of in mainstream

1805
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:29,479
Speaker 3: hits like this.

1806
01:37:30,520 --> 01:37:31,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

1807
01:37:31,320 --> 01:37:34,840
Speaker 4: Also, he was he was a sheriff.

1808
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:37,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's kind of worse than a cop.

1809
01:37:37,800 --> 01:37:38,599
Speaker 2: He was a sheriff.

1810
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:40,679
Speaker 1: Dang.

1811
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:43,880
Speaker 3: Granted it was a black community and he's a black sheriff,

1812
01:37:43,960 --> 01:37:46,880
Speaker 3: so it might be a different interaction. He also seemed

1813
01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:52,040
Speaker 3: way more folks see around them, but still we don't

1814
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:55,120
Speaker 3: talk to the cops. Sorry, I don't talk to the cops.

1815
01:37:56,520 --> 01:38:00,439
Speaker 1: I was like, Lorraine, you can do better, but yeah, yeah,

1816
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:02,320
Speaker 1: we gotta get laps.

1817
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:06,920
Speaker 2: Anyways, Yes, Ronald, thank you so much for joining us again.

1818
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:08,360
Speaker 2: Come back anytime.

1819
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:11,519
Speaker 1: What was your suggestion for a third Oh, Donnie Darko, Yeah,

1820
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:15,519
Speaker 1: let's do it. Let's create the most unhinged trifecta of

1821
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:17,479
Speaker 1: movies that has ever been covered on the.

1822
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:20,160
Speaker 4: Show Deep Dive on Donnie Darko. Yes, thank you so

1823
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:20,880
Speaker 4: much for having me.

1824
01:38:21,200 --> 01:38:23,360
Speaker 1: Oh, thanks for coming back. Where can we find you?

1825
01:38:23,600 --> 01:38:25,479
Speaker 1: And you've got an upcoming show?

1826
01:38:25,880 --> 01:38:30,240
Speaker 3: Yes, you could find me on Instagram, threads, letterbox at

1827
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:32,880
Speaker 3: Oh It's Big Round. That's at h I T S

1828
01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:36,000
Speaker 3: B I G R O N. If you're in the Washington,

1829
01:38:36,120 --> 01:38:39,320
Speaker 3: DC area, you should come to my live show on

1830
01:38:39,479 --> 01:38:43,320
Speaker 3: February twenty first at the Barracle Theater. It's called Heartbreaker.

1831
01:38:43,479 --> 01:38:45,840
Speaker 3: I will be talking about my love life through the

1832
01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:48,240
Speaker 3: lens of growing up as a child in the church,

1833
01:38:48,479 --> 01:38:51,040
Speaker 3: seeing the love of my parents, having an expectation of

1834
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:54,960
Speaker 3: love as an adult, and continuously failing in relationship after

1835
01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:57,960
Speaker 3: relationship after relationship. I'll be talking about my last three

1836
01:38:58,040 --> 01:39:01,360
Speaker 3: relationships in particular, and I'm very excited to share those

1837
01:39:01,400 --> 01:39:05,559
Speaker 3: stories on stage live at the Miracle Theater February twenty

1838
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:08,280
Speaker 3: first here in Washington, DC. Please come if you can,

1839
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:09,639
Speaker 3: Damn bring it to LA.

1840
01:39:09,800 --> 01:39:11,360
Speaker 1: That sounds so good, Hey.

1841
01:39:11,280 --> 01:39:13,679
Speaker 4: If it's good in DC and someone will give me somebody,

1842
01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:17,960
Speaker 4: then yes, well, thank you so.

1843
01:39:18,160 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 1: Much for joining us again. Come back soon. We'll start

1844
01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:24,120
Speaker 1: brushing up on Donnie Darko.

1845
01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:25,240
Speaker 4: Awesome if we will.

1846
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:29,120
Speaker 2: And in the meantime, you can follow us on Instagram

1847
01:39:29,200 --> 01:39:34,680
Speaker 2: at Bechdel Cast, and you can subscribe to our Maytreon

1848
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:37,840
Speaker 2: at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where you get

1849
01:39:37,880 --> 01:39:43,120
Speaker 2: two bonus episodes a month, always on a just genius

1850
01:39:43,760 --> 01:39:46,639
Speaker 2: theme that is awesome and so good.

1851
01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:48,960
Speaker 1: Where else are you gonna get episodes on Titanic six

1852
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:52,719
Speaker 1: sixty six? Fucking nowhere? And I'm like, maybe it sounded

1853
01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:55,240
Speaker 1: like a negative when but I met that as a positive.

1854
01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's it's actually an important part of filmed.

1855
01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:02,760
Speaker 2: Course is our episode on Titanic six sixty six.

1856
01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:06,240
Speaker 1: So we'll see you. We'll see you over there. And

1857
01:40:07,280 --> 01:40:11,880
Speaker 1: in the meantime, let's go tell Adam Brody how this

1858
01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:14,640
Speaker 1: episode's gonna end, so he can disagree with us in

1859
01:40:14,760 --> 01:40:16,080
Speaker 1: three different pitches.

1860
01:40:16,200 --> 01:40:18,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, bye bye.

1861
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:25,880
Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and

1862
01:40:26,040 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 1: produced by me Jamie Loftus and.

1863
01:40:28,280 --> 01:40:33,120
Speaker 2: Me Caitlyn Dorante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtermann.

1864
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:36,240
Speaker 1: And edited by Caitlyn Dorante. Ever heard of them? That's

1865
01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:40,120
Speaker 1: Me and our logo and merch and all of our artwork,

1866
01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:43,720
Speaker 1: in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus, ever heard of her?

1867
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:46,920
Speaker 1: Oh My God? And our theme song, by the way,

1868
01:40:47,080 --> 01:40:48,840
Speaker 1: was composed by Mike Kaplan.

1869
01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:51,760
Speaker 2: With vocals by Catherine Vosskrasinski.

1870
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:54,160
Speaker 1: Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only

1871
01:40:54,520 --> 01:40:55,840
Speaker 1: Aristotle Acevedo.

1872
01:40:56,360 --> 01:41:00,000
Speaker 2: For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree slash

1873
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:00,960
Speaker 2: Ashpectel Cast