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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.

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Speaker 1: Shoot us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, trust.

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Speaker 3: Me, trust me. I'm like a squat person.

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Speaker 2: I've never lived to you, I never do you think

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Speaker 2: that one person has all the answers? Don't welcome to

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Speaker 2: trust me? No, welcome to trust me. The podcast about cults,

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Speaker 2: extreme belief and abusive power from two gals who've actually

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Speaker 2: experienced it. I am Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth,

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Speaker 2: and we both grew up believing in cult leaders of

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Speaker 2: some kind. Today we're going to talk to my mother.

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Speaker 2: We were going to talk about our moment more men

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Speaker 2: offshoot cult leader we both believed in, who claimed that

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Speaker 2: he was the one true prophet of translating the sealed

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Speaker 2: portion of the Book of Mormon, and how we were

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Speaker 2: chosen by God to help him in the last days.

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Speaker 2: We will also talk about how he separated us from

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Speaker 2: each other and how my mother was sex trafficked. Trigger warning,

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Speaker 2: there will be some descriptions of sex trafficking, So that's

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Speaker 2: not something you want to hear about. Skip this one.

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Speaker 2: And if it is something you want to hear about,

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Speaker 2: seek help. That's kidding, Megan. Why don't you tell us

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Speaker 2: about your cult so people know who they're dealing with here?

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Speaker 1: Oh you know, well, a my cult super intense. Couldn't

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Speaker 1: cut my hair. Oh, couldn't wear pants, I got to

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Speaker 1: go to school and really long jean skirts.

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Speaker 4: We couldn't watch TV or movies.

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Speaker 1: If I wanted to go to a movie, my parents

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Speaker 1: would say, is that where you want to be when Jesus.

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Speaker 4: Comes back to the earth?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 1: And I'd be like, ugh no, So I'd like sit

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Speaker 1: at home and my friends would be at the movie

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Speaker 1: and I'd be like, God, I hope Jesus comes back

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Speaker 1: to the earth and they'll go to have wo. Would

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Speaker 1: be so bad and jealous. That's kind of mean, right,

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Speaker 1: but whatever, It's just I was seven. That was kind

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Speaker 1: of my cult. What's your cult?

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Speaker 2: Like? My cult is interesting because MI cult is basically, well,

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Speaker 2: it was a three person cult, but it has grown

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Speaker 2: sense and we will talk more about that later, because

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Speaker 2: our guest today is my mother, who was the reason

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Speaker 2: that I believed in this cult leader. She was not

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Speaker 2: the reason, but together we believed in this cult leader,

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Speaker 2: and it was an offshoot of Mormonism.

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Speaker 4: How big is it now?

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Speaker 2: Dozens? I have heard their buying up property in an

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Speaker 2: apartment complex in Utah, and I think it's dozens.

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Speaker 1: That's how it starts. That's how scientology like just started

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Speaker 1: by buying like a storage unit. I'm making that up,

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Speaker 1: but the properties, right, you know, like you just start

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Speaker 1: small and then all of a sudden.

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Speaker 4: You own like a city.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you make people give you their money, right, and

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Speaker 2: then you can buy as much as you want because

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Speaker 2: you have so much of other people's money. So what

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Speaker 2: is normal Mormonism? Like, great question. Normal Mormonism, Well, it's Christianity,

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Speaker 2: but there's an extra book called the Book of Mormon.

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Speaker 2: And basically, you know, they believe in this guy who

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Speaker 2: translated scriptures from an angel in the eighteen hundreds and

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Speaker 2: then the true Church was finally brought back to earth.

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Speaker 2: And it's just like you have to get married in

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Speaker 2: the temple, and in order to go to the temple,

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Speaker 2: you have to be temple worthy. So you tell your

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Speaker 2: bishop everything, kind of like Catholic confession a little bit. Oh,

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Speaker 2: like they do baptism for the dead, Oh in the temple.

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Speaker 2: You start doing that from age twelve, I think, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you go and get baptized and they have the names

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Speaker 2: of a bunch of people who are dead, and you're

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Speaker 2: basically like baptizing ghosts. Oh, so they can choose to

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Speaker 2: accept it or not. That's insane. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: sex is really a really bad sin. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of guilt in the religion because of that. But otherwise

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Speaker 2: it's like, you know a lot of really nice people

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Speaker 2: who just believe in this thing. Okay, okay, So we

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Speaker 2: are going to be doing a weekly segment on this

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Speaker 2: podcast where we talk about the cultiest thing that happened

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Speaker 2: to us each week, and we'll talk about what we

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Speaker 2: experienced or participated in that just felt a little bit

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Speaker 2: extreme or a little culty. But this week in particular,

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Speaker 2: there just happens to be some really culty stuff happening

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Speaker 2: in the news.

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Speaker 4: Cult news.

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Speaker 1: This week we have some pretty interesting cult news because

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Speaker 1: we have Small Belt, Small.

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Speaker 2: Bell, Small Bill. I love that show.

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Speaker 1: Small Bell actress Alison mac Alison Mack Yeah, she's in

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Speaker 1: some serious trouble.

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Speaker 2: She's pleading guilty to what are.

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Speaker 1: The charges like racketeering, sex trafficking, sex trafficking, child pornography.

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Speaker 4: I still haven't wrapped my head around.

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Speaker 2: Right that was That was Keith though, the leader her leader. Right. Okay,

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Speaker 2: if anyone doesn't know this is a sex If you

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Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know what you're doing and why

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Speaker 2: you're listening to this podcast.

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Speaker 5: There's a whole.

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Speaker 2: HBO docuseries about it called The Vow. It is not

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Speaker 2: out at the time of recording, so we're just going

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Speaker 2: off news articles right now. But basically, it was a

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Speaker 2: sex cult and Albany, New York, in which they were

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Speaker 2: branding women's bodies, and we'll probably do an entire episode

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Speaker 2: on it later on, but it was headed by a

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Speaker 2: man named Keith Ranieri, who incidentally I knew growing up,

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Speaker 2: and so did my mother, and we can talk more

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Speaker 2: about that later.

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Speaker 1: What is he.

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Speaker 4: Alluring in some way? Is he charismatic?

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Speaker 1: Because I've been looking at pictures with him all day

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Speaker 1: wondering how he has all these women being his sex

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Speaker 1: slaves and they're all like like heiresses.

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Speaker 2: And they're super rich and yeah, beautiful.

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Speaker 4: Why he's such a weirdo.

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Speaker 2: I was probably nine, so I don't know, or ten

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Speaker 2: or eleven, but I really liked him at the time.

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Speaker 2: He taught me the word word thing. That was one

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Speaker 2: smart fell he felt smart. Two smart fellas, they both

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Speaker 2: felt smart, and it would checked me into saying smelled

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Speaker 2: smelled fart.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: This is my memory of Keith Ranieri, the sex cult leader.

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Speaker 1: If we like, if we like a guy, should we

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Speaker 1: just determine that he's probably a cult leader if we

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Speaker 1: think he's nice.

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Speaker 2: If anyone thinks he's charming or charismatic in any way,

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Speaker 2: he's definitely minimum sociopath, probably a cult leader.

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Speaker 1: If you're talking to a man who you find charming,

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Speaker 1: scream cult leader, mace him and run.

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Speaker 2: Only like uncharismatic nerds for me who don't know how

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Speaker 2: to talk to people. She pleaded guilty, pled pleaded guilt,

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Speaker 2: pledgobbing in court, sobbing in court, and some people think

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Speaker 2: that she was faking it. I mean, she's an actress

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Speaker 2: on Small Bill, my favorite show I personally have. I

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Speaker 2: have differing beliefs on this because she was under the

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Speaker 2: spell of this very charming, charismatic man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to take the opposite side of you.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm totally anti her. She's so sick in

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Speaker 1: the head, just as sick as him.

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Speaker 2: Like, well, I don't know, man, I was watching some

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Speaker 2: of those videos of her, and I just like everything

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Speaker 2: that she was saying like she believed it. It seemed

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Speaker 2: like she believed it so fucking hard. And there are

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Speaker 2: I mean, we will get into this, but I just

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Speaker 2: think people the whole thing about cult is that people

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Speaker 2: end up doing things that they would never ever do

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Speaker 2: in their normal life, and they totally like they compromise

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Speaker 2: their own morals. They like become someone that they would

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Speaker 2: never have imagined that they'd become, and it happened slowly

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Speaker 2: over time because this person has such strong influence over them.

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Speaker 2: So I buy that somebody would do horrible things or

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Speaker 2: things that they would never do otherwise and then like

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Speaker 2: snap out of it and be like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck have I done with my life? I've

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Speaker 2: been branding women's slaves and having slaves. That part is

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Speaker 2: a little crazy. She had slaves, you know, Like I understand.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 1: One of the main things we want to talk about

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Speaker 1: is just the bias against people who are in cults

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Speaker 1: are who whatever like as being dumb.

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Speaker 4: My guess is the like.

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Speaker 2: Dumb, naive, gullible, Yeah, which is not true because literally

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Speaker 2: anyone can join a cult at any time. And the

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Speaker 2: bless you think you're susceptible, the more susceptible you are

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Speaker 2: because you don't have your defense is up. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I don't really know where I was going

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Speaker 1: with that, but you guys, it was brilliant.

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Speaker 2: I believe you.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's really really crazy that she

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Speaker 1: had slaves and that she was basically tricking women into

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Speaker 1: sleeping with him.

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Speaker 2: And it's true, it's true. But I just always think

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Speaker 2: about the chain of power and the chain of influence

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Speaker 2: and who was at the top of that, and in

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Speaker 2: this case.

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Speaker 4: It was him.

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Speaker 2: Although you think about Wild Bold Country. Did you watch

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Speaker 2: Wild Wold Country, of course, and Sheila, Sheila in that

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Speaker 2: scenario that seem totally.

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Speaker 4: Like seems like a Sheila to me. She seems like

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Speaker 4: a Sheila to me, So maybe, but she is.

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Speaker 1: I mean the fact that she's saying, she's sobbing and

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Speaker 1: saying that it's wrong. Sheila never did that. Sheila's still saying,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, Sheila, her guy Yeah, she loves Sheila.

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Speaker 1: She's a badass. Yeah, so I guess we'll see how

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Speaker 1: it goes. But she's she might be like indicted for

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Speaker 1: twenty years.

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Speaker 2: I mean that makes sense, that's fair. Yeah, so you know,

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Speaker 2: she'll probably not serve all of it. I'm so curious

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Speaker 2: to just hear the like inner workings of that story,

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Speaker 2: especially knowing the connections that my family has to him.

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Speaker 4: I can't wait to hear all about this.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this isn't this is not the cult that

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Speaker 2: we were talking about today, But we just happened to

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Speaker 2: know the guy from this cult.

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Speaker 4: So we're so lucky. You know, so many multiple cult peters.

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Speaker 2: It's my thing. It's really my mom's thing. We'll talk

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Speaker 2: to her about that, Okay, should we introduce her?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely?

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Speaker 2: All right, everybody, this is Christine my mother. Hey, my

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Speaker 2: mom is an amazing person. She has been through a

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Speaker 2: lot and now she's getting her PhD in media psychology.

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Speaker 2: She also runs a she formed what do you call it?

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Speaker 2: She formed founded a charity? Is that the word?

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Speaker 5: That's it?

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Speaker 2: A charity to help survivors of trafficking and those sorts

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Speaker 2: of things. She can describe it better, I hope.

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Speaker 3: So Hi, Mom, Hi, I'm happy to be here. Thank

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Speaker 3: you for letting me come on and talk about this

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Speaker 3: crazy stuff.

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Speaker 2: We're happy to have you.

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Speaker 5: Let's talk about you, all right.

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Speaker 2: The thing that is that I always want to tell

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Speaker 2: people about your story is to give them context of

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Speaker 2: the religion that you were in when you were preyed

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Speaker 2: upon by this cult leader guy, because I think for

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Speaker 2: a lot of people who don't know about how cults work,

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Speaker 2: or don't understand religion or Mormonism or or those fundamental beliefs,

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Speaker 2: they think that you just met a guy and you

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Speaker 2: were like, I'm gonna believe in this guy. He seems

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Speaker 2: like someone I should believe in, and then just went

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Speaker 2: with it because you were in love with him or whatever.

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Speaker 2: These like stupid myths that are not true. So for me,

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Speaker 2: the important place to start here is that you were Mormon.

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Speaker 2: You were a very devout, regular Mormon, no cultiness. Well,

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Speaker 2: depending on who you ask about Mormonism as religion, and

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Speaker 2: you have these belief systems ingrained in your psyche. So

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Speaker 2: do you want to tell me about that?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: I converted to Mormonism when I was a teenager. I

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Speaker 3: would read the Book of Mormon in my bed under

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Speaker 3: the covers with a flashlight. There were strict rules against

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Speaker 3: me investigating the.

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Speaker 2: Church, which happened because of missionaries, right.

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Speaker 3: Because missionaries came over and they were having a big

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Speaker 3: influence on me. My parents thought they were losing me

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Speaker 3: to a cult. So they didn't want that and said, no,

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Speaker 3: what was drawing you towards that interesting question? I was

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Speaker 3: bullied when I was a child. I was rejected by

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Speaker 3: my peers. I mean, my grandfather was a Methodist minister,

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Speaker 3: and I always wondered, why don't we ever go to church?

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Speaker 5: So it was sort.

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Speaker 3: Of like a job to him. And I craved more.

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Speaker 3: I craved a sense of meaning because I wasn't getting

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Speaker 3: it from being in some popular clique or something. And

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Speaker 3: I started looking for religion in high school and I

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Speaker 3: found one. I was baptized on my eighteenth birthday because

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Speaker 3: my parents would not allow me to join the church.

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Speaker 3: So the day that I turned eighteen, I drove to

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Speaker 3: a lake where I met the missionaries and a few

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Speaker 3: members of the church, which and I got baptized in

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Speaker 3: the freezing cold month of April in Michigan.

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Speaker 2: I totally forgot that. I just assumed it was an

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Speaker 2: indoor baptismal font You must have been very dedicated.

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Speaker 5: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: That's a wild eighteenth birthday.

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Speaker 3: And that was so repelised eighteenth birthday.

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Speaker 4: No, that is rebellious.

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Speaker 5: That was so rebellious, you know.

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Speaker 3: For at any rate, it made me very happy. It

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Speaker 3: was the happiest I had ever been. I ended up

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Speaker 3: going to Brigham Young University. I went and became a missionary.

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Speaker 3: I broke records on my mission. I came off my

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Speaker 3: mission to a man who had been waiting for me,

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Speaker 3: which is the father of Lola, and we were married

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Speaker 3: three and a half weeks later. As soon as I

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Speaker 3: got off my mission, we were married, and we lived

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Speaker 3: the good, devout LDS life.

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Speaker 4: And you believe it.

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Speaker 3: I believed right. I believed it so much. I would

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Speaker 3: say for me, it's not even a matter of faith anymore.

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Speaker 3: I have a true knowledge that this is the truth.

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Speaker 3: I knew it beyond the shadow of a doubt.

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Speaker 5: As they all do well, right, all of them.

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Speaker 2: But so the interesting thing for me, and what I

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Speaker 2: remember from my childhood is seeing meaning, in seeing religious

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Speaker 2: meaning or like divine meaning in coincidences and dreams. You

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Speaker 2: and Dad were married kind of because of a dream

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Speaker 2: that's true.

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Speaker 3: I had to dream when I was on my mission,

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Speaker 3: and I thought it indicated who I was to marry.

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Speaker 3: And we were walking over some rocks on a pier,

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Speaker 3: and this man reached his hand out and helped me

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Speaker 3: cross this scary part. And when I got off my mission,

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Speaker 3: I didn't think that my husband, the man I ended

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Speaker 3: up marrying, I didn't think he was the one. But

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Speaker 3: when we went on this walk on the peer and

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Speaker 3: he reached his hand, you know, it reminded me of that.

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Speaker 2: Dream, and it was a sign.

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Speaker 3: It was a sign, and there were many signs to me.

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Speaker 3: When I was a missionary, I prayed about where to

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Speaker 3: go to find people that were looking for the message

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Speaker 3: that I was going to share, and I would get,

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Speaker 3: like I called it, spiritual radar, and just kind of

300
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Speaker 3: find the house based on intuition, and a remarkable number

301
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Speaker 3: of times when we would knock on that door, there

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00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:39,880
Speaker 3: would be somebody who said, hey, I was just praying that,

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Speaker 3: you know, that God would show me the truth, and

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Speaker 3: you showed up. I mean things like that happened over

305
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Speaker 3: and over and over and over when I was in

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Speaker 3: that mindset, and I took all that to mean that,

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Speaker 3: you know, there really is a man and this guy

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Speaker 3: who's kind of pulling the puppet strings and helping me

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Speaker 3: know where to go and what to do. And if

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Speaker 3: I'm really in tune, I you know, I can make

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Speaker 3: miracles happen, almost like if I pray it, it's gonna happen,

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Speaker 3: unless it's not God's will.

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Speaker 2: Right, So fast forward to you and that are divorced.

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Speaker 5: Right, we get divorced.

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Speaker 3: And I got excommunicated because when I was single, a divorced,

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Speaker 3: single mother, I was intimate with a man that I

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Speaker 3: was in love with who was also single.

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Speaker 2: Which is very unusual.

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Speaker 4: I have heard it.

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Speaker 5: And so I was, you know, cast away forever.

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Speaker 4: How did they find out?

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Speaker 3: Well, I was honest and I felt so guilty about it.

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Speaker 5: Christmas.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I confessed and then when I you know, saw

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Speaker 3: him again, I sinned again. Then it you know, I

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Speaker 3: mean he was my boyfriend, and so I became what

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Speaker 3: they called.

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Speaker 5: Habitual offender.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 5: Then I got.

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Speaker 3: Excommunicated and that was it. No more of that stuff.

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Speaker 3: I was going to turn my life back around. I

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Speaker 3: ended up during the time that I was excommunicated by

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Speaker 3: the way I met Keith Ranieri side.

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Speaker 2: Note, founder of Next the Side could side note.

336
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Speaker 3: And yes he tried to recruit me into his cult.

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00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,600
Speaker 3: You know, we can get to that later. But I was,

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Speaker 3: you know, stuck because I.

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Speaker 5: Really loved Mormonism.

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Speaker 3: To be fair, it made me happy. Ye gave me meaning.

341
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Speaker 3: There was purpose in my life, there was community. I

342
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,600
Speaker 3: understood why I was on the earth, where I would

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Speaker 3: be going after this life.

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Speaker 5: I had a plan.

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Speaker 3: Everything made sense. I just needed a husband, a new husband,

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Speaker 3: and so okay, now here's here's the here's the catch.

347
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Speaker 3: So the founder of Mormonism had a vision Joseph Smith,

348
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Speaker 3: Joseph Smith. Some people call it a dream, depending on

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Speaker 3: which document you're reading.

350
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Speaker 5: Dreams are believed.

351
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Speaker 3: To be a potential source of God speaking to you,

352
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Speaker 3: that he can share messages through.

353
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Speaker 2: Dreams, visions and visions.

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Speaker 3: Right, I prayed about who mister Wright was since I

355
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 3: divorced mister Wrong. Who would this man be that I

356
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,159
Speaker 3: would be with for time and all Atrinity? And an

357
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:08,200
Speaker 3: answer to that dream that very night I had a

358
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Speaker 3: profound dream vision thing and I saw this man and

359
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 3: I remember his face perfectly because he looked like a

360
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Speaker 3: cross between my ex boyfriend David and Brendan Fraser.

361
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Speaker 4: Oh, I loved.

362
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Speaker 2: Day, and I still I was like, thank you having

363
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 2: my father not my man.

364
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Speaker 4: No disagreement here, So thank God.

365
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:46,440
Speaker 3: So some of my single friend single women, we would

366
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Speaker 3: go to Mormon singles dances and I told them what

367
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Speaker 3: my mister Wright looked like, so they would be on

368
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Speaker 3: the lookout. And my girlfriend had a dream that her

369
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,040
Speaker 3: mister right she would meet him and he would be where.

370
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Speaker 5: A baseball cap.

371
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Speaker 3: So we were both looking, you know, using these signs

372
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 3: to try to find, you know, information about the other

373
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Speaker 3: one's possible mate.

374
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Speaker 5: So I go. So I moved to Utah. I had

375
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Speaker 5: a lot going on. I was succeeding.

376
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Speaker 3: I had a project that got funded when I lived

377
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Speaker 3: in California, and I was so excited about it, and

378
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,879
Speaker 3: it required me to move to Utah. And my very

379
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 3: first Mormon singles dance that I went to after moving

380
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Speaker 3: to Utah was at Wheeler Farm. And as I'm looking

381
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,880
Speaker 3: out onto the dance floor, who do I see Brendan Fraser?

382
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 3: Man that looked like a cross between my ex boyfriend

383
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 3: David and Brendan Fraser.

384
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Speaker 1: So here's the important question. What kind of dancing are

385
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Speaker 1: you looking at? While you're like are they what are

386
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Speaker 1: they doing?

387
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 4: Oh?

388
00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 5: Well, it would be uh the dougie.

389
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Speaker 4: Are they grind dancing?

390
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Speaker 2: Are they?

391
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Speaker 3: Oh? No, very very wholesome dancing, even wholesome music. But

392
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Speaker 3: it was pop music or dancing Mormon dances.

393
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Speaker 2: You have to keep Is this true of adults too?

394
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 2: You have to keep a Bible in a book of

395
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 2: Mormon space between you. Oh okay, that's specific, all right,

396
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 2: so you're not too saucy.

397
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Speaker 4: So you see this guy dancing with the Mormon book space, No.

398
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Speaker 5: He was dancing with elderly ladies.

399
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know.

400
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Speaker 3: He wasn't dancing with all the hot girls.

401
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,880
Speaker 5: He was dancing with, you know, the eighty three year

402
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Speaker 5: old women. And I and I went.

403
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 3: Look, there he is, and he's doing something that I

404
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 3: approve of in it. He's so awesome. What kind of

405
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,160
Speaker 3: a man would go for the elderly women to make

406
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 3: sure they feel good, especially when he's you know, handsome.

407
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 3: And I just thought, oh my goodness. And I thought

408
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 3: it was proof that there really was God because he

409
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,959
Speaker 3: gave me the dream and it manifest in the flesh.

410
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 3: So because of that, he had a lot more power

411
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 3: and influence over me than if I had just met somebody.

412
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 3: I totally got that you know, I thought there was

413
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 3: meaning to this and it was eternal.

414
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 2: And how do you think God literally gave you a

415
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 2: sign about this person? Of course there's meaning there of it.

416
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 2: There wouldn't be right.

417
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 3: And then I happened to be a Book of Mormon fanatic.

418
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 3: I even wrote a book about the Book of Mormon.

419
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 3: I read the Book of Mormon NonStop, you know, dozens

420
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 3: of times, from cover to cover. So the Book of

421
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 3: Mormon has another part to it. This is what all

422
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 3: Mormons believe that there's a part when Joseph Smith originally

423
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 3: translated the gold Plates, which is where the Book of

424
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 3: Mormon came from, you know, the mormonsbelief.

425
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna translate it as in quotation marks here

426
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 2: because he translated them from an angel who nobody ever

427
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 2: saw in a hat. That the angel wasn't in that hat. No,

428
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 2: the angel wasn't in the hat, but the angel provided

429
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: him the hat or something. Anyway, it came from a

430
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 2: fucking angel and he did it in a hat. And

431
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 2: this is the translation that's going on here. This is

432
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 2: not coming from like a physical text that exists.

433
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: Yes, Slila and her mother are using quotation marks, which

434
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: you guys can't see.

435
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, So supposedly, supposedly there were gold plates because

436
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 3: gold does not rust, and if you look in you know,

437
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 3: archaeological museums or whatever, you can find that they did

438
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 3: actually used to keep records by engraving them on metal plates.

439
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 3: All right, So these were the gold plates. They weren't

440
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 3: dinner dishes, which would be pretty awesome, but it was

441
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 3: like leafs, you know, like book leafs. So I believe

442
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 3: that Joseph Smith translated these ancient words, and that's what

443
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 3: became the Book of Mormon, which I loved and inspired

444
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 3: me and it inspired you know, millions of people. Well,

445
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 3: there is a belief right from the Book of Mormon

446
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 3: that when Joseph Smith translated these plates, he did not

447
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 3: translate them all. There was a part that was left

448
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 3: sealed until the last days, right before this second coming

449
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 3: of Christ, that in the last days, one mighty and

450
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: strong would would appear.

451
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: And that's not setting up anything for trouble.

452
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 3: At all to who and those gold plates would come

453
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 3: back on the scene. Enter the man from my dream,

454
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 3: not the man of my dreams, but the man from

455
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 3: my dream. Yeah, okay, keep in mind, this man is

456
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 3: not somebody that I would.

457
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 5: Have ever been interested in.

458
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 3: Not my type, sort of a loser in life, you know,

459
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 3: I mean that's true.

460
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: I remember when mom was single and I was a kid.

461
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: She was dating Hella millionaires.

462
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 3: Interesting, and so when I started when I met him though,

463
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 3: because of this, you know, this magical thing around meeting him,

464
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 3: you know, he wanted to he wanted to sleep with me,

465
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 3: but I wouldn't because I'd already went down that road.

466
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: I was excommunicated. I made my way back. I paid

467
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: the price. It was like psychologically abusive to go through

468
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 3: the repentance process and make it back where you can

469
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 3: be rebaptized. And I made it, and I was like overjoyed,

470
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 3: and I thought, wow, I'm one.

471
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 5: Of the few people that made it back.

472
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 3: Mostly when people are excommunicated, they just you know, move

473
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 3: on with life. But I loved my church. I loved

474
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 3: my Book of Mormon. And here was this man. He

475
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 3: was an atheist. He presented me as an atheist at first,

476
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: and I wasn't interested in him. He was trying hardcore

477
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 3: to get me to sleep with him, or to get

478
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 3: me to be interested in him, but I wasn't interested.

479
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 5: So he changed his.

480
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: Plan and one night he says, you know, I'm actually

481
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: not an atheist.

482
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 5: I mean, we would go back and forth.

483
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 3: I was trying to get him to stop being an

484
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 3: atheist because he once was a Mormon. So now we

485
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: have an ex Mormon and time Mormon, in my opinion, sociopath.

486
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 3: Yeah okay, but I didn't know it at the time,

487
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 3: and I'm trying.

488
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 5: To restore his faith. I thought Heavenly Father gave me

489
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 5: this challenge.

490
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 3: This is my future husband, and I need to bring

491
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 3: him back to the fold. In the meantime, he's trying

492
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 3: to pull me out of the church.

493
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 5: Sleep with them.

494
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.

495
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 5: Okay, So we have.

496
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 3: A battle going on and he couldn't do it. He

497
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 3: later told me that I was the first woman in

498
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 3: his life whose faith he could not break. So he

499
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 3: changes his story and suddenly he says I. He says, Christine,

500
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 3: I have to tell you the truth. I'm really non

501
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 3: an atheist.

502
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 5: It was a test.

503
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 3: It was just a test to see if I could

504
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 3: break your faith like every other woman. And because I

505
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 3: could not break your faith, I am allowed to tell

506
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 3: you the truth. I have translated this sealed portion of

507
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 3: the Book of Mormon in preparation for the Second coming

508
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 3: of Christ.

509
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: And by the way, tests are a huge thing in Mormonism. Yeah,

510
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: it's from God. Is proving your your worthiness, proving your righteousness.

511
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 5: Yeah right.

512
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 3: And I didn't believe in him overnight. And there were

513
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 3: other believers, more than three. By the way, she only

514
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 3: interacted with three, but.

515
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 2: I guess my experience of it was three.

516
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 5: Yeah right, but there were more.

517
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 3: But nonetheless, it was a small It was small, a

518
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,959
Speaker 3: small group. But so I get sucked in and I'm thinking,

519
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 3: oh my goodness.

520
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 5: This is the new Joseph Smith. That must make me.

521
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 3: The new Emma his wife, you know, I mean, because

522
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: this man wanted to take me as his wife. So

523
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 3: here we've got the new prophet. He even sent me

524
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 3: eight chapters of the translation of these new Sealed Portion scriptures,

525
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: and it felt no different to me than when I

526
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 3: believed in the Book of Mormon the first time. It

527
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 3: was a big leap of faith to go from only

528
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: believing the Bible to believing the Book of Mormon as

529
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 3: a teenager. So it just didn't seem that weird that

530
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 3: the Sealed Portion would be coming forward. It was all

531
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: a leap of faith, which is ironic because after all

532
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 3: this was done One of the criticisms that I had

533
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 3: from people who are devout Mormons was, how could you

534
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 3: ever have fallen for that?

535
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, well I found.

536
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: The people who baptized ghosts.

537
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 3: You can believe in the Book of Mormon. But in

538
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 3: the Book of Mormon it says in the last days,

539
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: the stealed portion will come forward.

540
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 2: That's right there.

541
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 3: But you know, you know, I should have known better somehow.

542
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 3: So at any rate, what happened is he tells me

543
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 3: that we need to meet in Las Vegas. I am

544
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: to tell no one that we are to meet. He

545
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 3: is a prophet. He tells me that I had that

546
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: dream because I was sent to him to be his

547
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: help meet and translating the sal portion, and that I'd

548
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: pass all these tests and I was going to be

549
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 3: the prophet of the wife.

550
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 5: I mean, the wife of the Prophet. That's a much

551
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 5: cooler title.

552
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 3: Oh wow, And that's what I secretly wish I thought

553
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 3: the other title. No, So I thought, wow, that's what

554
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 3: happens when you stick it out. You get rebaptized, you know,

555
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: you get you know, I felt like being rebaptized. All

556
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 3: my sins had been washed away, and now all these

557
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 3: manifestations and miracles are happening in my head. And okay,

558
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 3: one step at a time, I start really believing in him.

559
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: And then I find myself in Las Vegas about to

560
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 3: get married to this man not legally married. He said,

561
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 3: it would be like the prophets of old, like Malachi

562
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 3: took Anna. I mean, once you knew a person, which

563
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: means had sex with them, you know, in the Bible,

564
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 3: it would say, and he knew her, right, Okay.

565
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 5: So that was when I.

566
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 2: Started using that term to just curt.

567
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 5: We to each other.

568
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 3: And so I sat there thinking it out, thinking I

569
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 3: saw him in a dream.

570
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: That would fuck I mean, I don't know if you

571
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: can say the word, but that would screw me up

572
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: hardcore if I saw him in a dream.

573
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I saw him in a dream. I got rebaptized.

574
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 3: The sealed portion chapters seemed the same of the same

575
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 3: spirit as the Book of Mormon. And I look him

576
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 3: in the eyes and I say, promise me, you're not

577
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 3: deceiving me, just so you can sleep with me. And

578
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 3: he said, I wish I was deceiving you. My calling

579
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: has been so difficult and so lonely. Oh my dear Christine,

580
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: how I wish that this, that I didn't have this

581
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 3: yoke upon me. And he went on and on about okay,

582
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 3: and then I knew him. Oh here, I'm thinking i'm

583
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: his wife now, and I said that's it. You know,

584
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 3: there's no like ceremony, and he was like, that was

585
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 3: the ceremony.

586
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 5: Okay.

587
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 3: So he lets me think I am his eternal wife

588
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 3: and the prophets helped me, and that I would be

589
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 3: helping to restore polygamy to the world, even and.

590
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: Early Mormons believed in polygamy and then they abolished it

591
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: when the government said that they couldn't do it anymore.

592
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 3: Right now, guess what, Now I'm going to pickle because

593
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: if he's not a prophet, I just slept with somebody

594
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 3: that I wasn't married to, and I would get excommunicated

595
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 3: again and I would never.

596
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 5: Be able to get back into the church.

597
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

598
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 3: So now my critical thinking switched a million little switches

599
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 3: switched off so that I could see everything that supported

600
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 3: the fact that he really was a prophet, because this

601
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 3: was the double bind that I was in. If he

602
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 3: was a prophet, then I was on the right path

603
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 3: and I would be going to the celestial Kingdom. The

604
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: highest kingdom where I could be with my children forever.

605
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 3: If he was not a prophet and I just slept

606
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 3: with him, I would certainly lose my soul. So I

607
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: was invested in him being a prophet. Now, in fundamental

608
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 3: Mormon beliefs, a prophet is not allowed to lead you astray,

609
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 3: that the Lord will kill them, take their lives before

610
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 3: they let you lead them astray, before he will allow

611
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 3: them to lead you astray. So this is a failsafe

612
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 3: for profits because they can lead you astray, but you

613
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 3: think they can't.

614
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 4: So they're like, I'm not dead, so I'm not lying.

615
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I'm telling you the truth here. So I

616
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 3: follow my profit's words. Now, keep in mind, I'm not

617
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 3: in love with this guy, but I'm honored because you know,

618
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 3: I am the wife of the prophet. I am the

619
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 3: secret wife of the prophet. Well, then I have to

620
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: start sacrificing, because the prophet's wife has to prove that

621
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 3: she's more worthy than anybody else, so she has to

622
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 3: make bigger sacrifices. So first comes the money, Then comes

623
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 3: the possession of all the things that I cherished, and

624
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 3: of course the money from that also went to him.

625
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 3: He said it went into a fund to help the

626
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 3: poor and needy. I thought I was, and you did too,

627
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 3: I mean we were.

628
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I feel like I will now talk about

629
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: how I came to yes Adam No, no, no, no, I

630
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: want to call him something to year.

631
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 4: I like, Chad, Yeah, yeah, Chad.

632
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: I am twelve twelve, right, and I meet this guy

633
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 2: and I actually I'm like, I'm so hazy now on

634
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: how true and how I felt about him. But I

635
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: feel like I didn't like him at first, and then

636
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 2: he bought me snacks, and then I liked him, which

637
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: is how you win me. It's a classic theme in

638
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: my life.

639
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 5: You were impressed with the fruits.

640
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 2: I was impressed with well Gushers specifically, right right, That's

641
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 2: what it was. And but I didn't know much about him.

642
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: I just knew my mom spending more time with him,

643
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: and she had, you know, she was dating guys. She

644
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,959
Speaker 2: was very well liked among the fellas. So I don't

645
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: think I thought anything particularly unusual was happening. And one

646
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: day I was snooping around hacking her computer, hacking, hacking

647
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 2: computer was I was being a snoop. I wanted to

648
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 2: see what was what was going on in mom's life,

649
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 2: and I found these letters that he had written to her,

650
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 2: and and I wish I could remember specifically what they said,

651
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: but basically saying like what God wants her to do

652
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: and basically implying that he is her prophet. And I'm

653
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: twelve and I'm Mormon, and I don't know what any

654
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: of this means. I just think, oh, wow, Chad's a prophet. Wow.

655
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 2: So then I believed in him, and he found out

656
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: that I believed in him, and so then I was

657
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: in on it too, and he had me make I

658
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: start to make a website. I believe it was an

659
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: angel Fire website for his non existent charity that he

660
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: had made up where all the money from the things

661
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: my mom sold was going to.

662
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 4: And this was this is gonna be called angel Fire?

663
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: Is that?

664
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 2: No?

665
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 4: No?

666
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 2: You know an angel.

667
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 4: Where are you?

668
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 3: She was very savvy, very tech savvy for a angel.

669
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 2: Fire was like like the early Internet version of like, uh,

670
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: what's the web? Yeah? Like word pressing? Okay, okay, it

671
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: was real dorky. They were like lots of like cyber

672
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: doll websites and lots of fan sites on angel Fire.

673
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 2: You were not cool in the early two houses.

674
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 4: No, I was not.

675
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: It was a really dorky way to make a website.

676
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: And I started making a website for his stupid non

677
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 2: existent charity.

678
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 4: Well, I wasn't allowed to have computers.

679
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 2: Art, Oh that's right, right, you know, so you're like

680
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: end two, I'm in yeah, and she's volunteering shit. Yeah,

681
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: And I think that I'm chosen too, because that's I'm twelve.

682
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: And how cool did I feel thinking that, Like I

683
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 2: was helping usher in the last days the second Coming

684
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: of Jesus Christ, Like, oh my goodness, I'm such a

685
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 2: special girl. There's nobody else that knows about this except

686
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 2: for me and my mom.

687
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 3: And he told me the reason I was so special

688
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 3: was because I had her. She was the real Jews

689
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 3: here and she sang to him and he was like,

690
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: she's going to be a star and everything else, So.

691
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 4: Okay, you know yeah.

692
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: And then well so the yard sale.

693
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 3: Right, we sold stuff for the to help the poor

694
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 3: nady to go into this fund. And then he told

695
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 3: me I needed to be separated from my children because

696
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 3: being the pro it's wife helping with the translation would

697
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 3: put me in a very dangerous situation, and for their

698
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 3: own safety, my children needed for a time being to

699
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 3: be away from me, and I needed to go and

700
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 3: live among the poor and needy. So I ended up

701
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 3: in a resident hotel. The children ended up in different places,

702
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 3: you know, like the boys went to their fathers and

703
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 3: she went to a friend.

704
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 2: Of stayed at the house of a family from nearby.

705
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was quite a sheltered person growing up,

706
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 3: even though we weren't religious. I had a very strict

707
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 3: father as well and came from a small town. Then

708
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 3: I got married and lived the Mormon life. Never I

709
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 3: was not sophisticated. So now I'm living in a resident

710
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 3: hotel in downtown Salt Lake, which is a place where

711
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 3: people go when they.

712
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 5: First get out of prison.

713
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 3: Okay, so there were eighty occupants, and seventy eight of

714
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 3: them were men or seventy seven. Then there was a

715
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 3: woman who was in a wheelchair and a woman who

716
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 3: was like eighty seven, and then there was me. So

717
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 3: I was at that time. I had been doing pageants

718
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 3: and staying in shape and running my business, but I.

719
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 5: Was like a lamb in a slaughter.

720
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 3: So once my money ran out, the profit decides that

721
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 3: I need to pass some new tests. I need to

722
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: descend below all things because I was too proud, and

723
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 3: how dare I think positive things about myself? I needed

724
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 3: to be humbled. And the word that he used in

725
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 3: writing was that I needed to be a based before men.

726
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 5: Do you know the word a baste? Okay, So.

727
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 3: One step at a time, and I'll spare you the

728
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 3: gory details. But I'm in this scary place. I'm being raped.

729
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 3: I was robbed a couple of times. I was beaten,

730
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 3: I was I was physically harmed to the point where

731
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 3: I needed to get medical attention. And I was told

732
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 3: that there were three men who were watching me at

733
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 3: all times and if I ever left, did not come back,

734
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 3: then I would run the risk of losing my life,

735
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 3: never being with my children again. He threatened their eternity.

736
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 3: And so I'm in this situation. I'm not allowed to

737
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 3: tell anybody. I'm not allowed to get therapy because I

738
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 3: can't tell anybody that these are the that I need

739
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 3: to be purged in such a violent manner. And I'm saying,

740
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 3: surely he can't, you know, he can't know what's going on.

741
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 3: I need to tell him what's going on. He wouldn't

742
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 3: allow me to be here.

743
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 5: In fact, he.

744
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: Wrote me letters. He wrote me a letter after I

745
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 3: describe some of the heartache and suffering that I was

746
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 3: going through, and he said, oh, my dear sister, Oh

747
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 3: my heart cries for you. I wish the mountains would

748
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 3: fall down upon and bury the men that are hurting you,

749
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 3: and you know, being very colorful, and how upset he

750
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 3: is that I'm being harmed? And who are my children?

751
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 5: Anyway?

752
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 3: You know what, because he wanted all things that brought

753
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 3: me joy to be out of my life. And my

754
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 3: children were my life. I was even young Mother of

755
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 3: the Year at one point, and the business that I

756
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 3: had that took me to Utah revolved all around family enrichment.

757
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 3: My life was about my children. So he wanted my

758
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 3: children away from me so that I could dedicate everything

759
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: to him. And you know, I think he was jealous

760
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 3: of my children. But this is a man who couldn't

761
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 3: stick to one thought for a long time. And what

762
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 3: happened is I started becoming sexually exploited, and he was

763
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 3: he was beneficiary. Now keep in mind, I never had

764
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 3: I never took money for sex. I never was paid,

765
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 3: I never handled any transactions. They call it human trafficking. Okay,

766
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 3: he had. He ended up in prison in jail for

767
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 3: something else, so he had other people handling me. And

768
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 3: then I get a revelation from jail one of the believers,

769
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 3: I'll call her his sister.

770
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 2: Jackie.

771
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 5: Sister, yeah, sister Debbie.

772
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, it's Jackie someone okay, anyway Debbie, yeah.

773
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah. So sister Debbie I thought was an elderly lady.

774
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 3: I had always heard about sister Debbie's going to help

775
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 3: with this and help with that. And hey, I get

776
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 3: this revelation sent to me that says that Chad would

777
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 3: be marrying legally marrying sister Debbie, and that I needed

778
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 3: to be I needed to continue serving in the manner

779
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 3: that was required to provide financial support because of the

780
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 3: many men that desired me. That my job was to

781
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 3: provide this financial support and service to Chad and his

782
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 3: new wife Debbie, and that if I obeyed all of

783
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 3: his commandments, then I would be a mother in heaven.

784
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 3: So now I was demoted from first wife to slave wife.

785
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 3: And in the same revelation, sister Debbie was promised that

786
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,959
Speaker 3: they would have children together, that they would be known

787
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 3: throughout the world for their love for one another. But

788
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 3: I had to remain a secret so at this point,

789
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 3: you know, I'm so damaged. I have layers and layers

790
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 3: of trauma. I'm so confused, but my brain does not

791
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 3: want to believe that my profit had anything to do

792
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 3: with the harm that was befalling me. I write letters

793
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 3: to him and to Sister Debbie, just to make sure

794
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 3: that they know that my life was hanging.

795
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 5: By a thread.

796
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 3: I thought about killing myself every single hour. I thought

797
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 3: there was no other way out. And then then he

798
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 3: blew out the last candle flicker of hope that I had.

799
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 3: With his influence and power over me. He was my

800
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 3: ecclesiastical power. He was like the Pope to me, even

801
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 3: beyond the Pope, because I believed he a prophet. All

802
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 3: Mormons believe their prophets speak directly to God. He is

803
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 3: the one that put me in that situation. He's the

804
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 3: one that should have known and is not getting me

805
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: out of that situation. He said, you are exactly where

806
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 3: you need to be. And he said, if you are

807
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 3: not happy serving in the way that you have been

808
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 3: asked to serve, then all your sacrifices have been in vain.

809
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 3: And that was it. So now I'm going to hell.

810
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 3: Anyway I went, I passed all these tests. I'm going

811
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 3: to hell anyway. My money's gone, my dreams are gone.

812
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 3: I had a big project that God funded, gone, my

813
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 3: children are gone, my certain precious things I parted with

814
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 3: because of him. And I had a wedding dress for

815
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 3: when I did find mister Wright that I would never marry,

816
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 3: that I would never wear.

817
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 5: I had to sell that.

818
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 3: I had a dress I designed myself that I wore

819
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 3: in pageants that was just amazing. And I had to

820
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 3: sell that. I had to sell things that I was

821
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 3: attached to. And I was left there with nothing. He

822
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 3: took every last thing that a woman holds near and

823
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 3: dear to her heart. There was nothing left for me

824
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 3: to do but die.

825
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 2: So meanwhile, I'm living with this family from church who

826
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 2: has no idea what's going on. I don't do you

827
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: remember what we told them about why I was there.

828
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: I don't remember what we told them, but they just

829
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 2: knew I wasn't living with my mom, and I am

830
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 2: talking to my mom on the phone periodically, but I

831
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: don't know exactly what's going on, but I just hear

832
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 2: that it's like not good over there. Something is going on.

833
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 2: She's not having a good time. But I think, like, Okay,

834
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 2: it's just a test. God is just testing her. God

835
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 2: tests people. That's what he does. When you're chosen you,

836
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:47,919
Speaker 2: you know, He's gonna test you and make your life

837
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 2: really really hard so that you can experience all the

838
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 2: glories of heaven. And I was like lonely and sad

839
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: without my mom, but I just would come for myself

840
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 2: by saying, while I'm chosen by God, So the Second

841
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 2: Coming is coming soon. She'sus gonna It's gonna come soon,

842
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 2: and then everything's gonna be amazing. Like I'm chosen. I

843
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 2: am so special. These kids at school might not, you know,

844
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 2: like me that much, or I might not have any friends,

845
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 2: but they'll see one day when they see that I

846
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,720
Speaker 2: was the kid who ushered him the Second Coming of Christ.

847
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: I love that weird Al song where he's like and

848
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: I'll be laughing my head off when you're burning in

849
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: a house Paradise.

850
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: Weird A was one of my favorite artists at this time,

851
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 2: the side note Yeah. And I visited her once and

852
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 2: it was so depressing and scary. The bathroom we had

853
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 2: to go to the bathroom in the hallway, there were

854
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:46,720
Speaker 2: these all these like scary men there there were like stalkers, throwing,

855
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 2: like trying to barge in. He has to call the

856
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 2: cops one night because this man was trying to force

857
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 2: his way in anyway. It was just a really scary situation.

858
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 2: And my mom is this. Even at that age, I

859
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 2: was aware that like my mom exuded this this youthfulness

860
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 2: and this like innocence, and I like, it was just

861
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 2: so scary to see her in this place. But I

862
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:07,919
Speaker 2: thought that that was God's will, and that was God

863
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 2: testing her, and that was what needed to happen so

864
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: that we could help Jesus come back in retrospect, not

865
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 2: sure how they were supposed to be related made sense

866
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 2: the time.

867
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 3: So what the prophet would send men from prison to

868
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 3: come and be served by me when they got out

869
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 3: of prison. Oh okay, I had a job to do.

870
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 3: And one man who came ended up crying. I showed

871
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 3: him pictures of my children, and I showed him, you

872
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 3: know what my prior dreams were before I got involved

873
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 3: in the work, and he.

874
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 5: Just started crying.

875
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 3: I mean, this is an Exican, right, He's crying, He's bawling,

876
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 3: convulsing tears, and I didn't understand why. I mean, he

877
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 3: laid his head on my lap and was bawling.

878
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 5: Like a baby. And he left.

879
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 3: And I was terrified because I was so on the

880
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 3: verge of killing myself that I was relieved when someone

881
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 3: was there, because I knew I would at least make

882
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 3: it through the next hour if somebody was with me.

883
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 3: And I did make a couple of attempts towards suicide.

884
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 3: And I wrote to Miss Debbie, sister Debbie, and I said, please,

885
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 3: if you and and Chad are sometimes I wonder if

886
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 3: you're deceiving me just for entertainment or money, you know,

887
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 3: please tell me the truth. My life is hanging by

888
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 3: a thread. And you know, woman to woman, women expect

889
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 3: other women to symbiotically care for one another or to

890
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 3: you know, step in if they see another woman being hard.

891
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 3: And that's what I expected. And she wrote back and said, oh,

892
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 3: we would never deceive you, not for money, not for

893
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 3: entertainment or any other purpose. I can't even imagine the

894
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 3: horrible experiences that you must have had with people to

895
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 3: even assume such a thing.

896
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 2: She's the Sheila. You haven't seen a wild of country,

897
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 2: so you don't know what that means.

898
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 5: I have seen it, and we would never do that.

899
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 3: To you.

900
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 5: There were other believers.

901
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 3: I reached out to them, you know, by email. I

902
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 3: was crying out. I even reached out during this time

903
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 3: to Keith Vanieri from Nexium.

904
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 2: You know, and this quoted in an article talking about

905
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 2: her cult leader.

906
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 3: Right for a while, it was the battle of the

907
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 3: cult leaders, you know. Was I going to go with

908
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 3: Keith or was I gonna go with Chad? And they

909
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 3: both knew about each other. And anyway, so my Nexium

910
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 3: story is amazing too, but that's the story for another day.

911
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 3: So this guy starts crying and he leaves, and then

912
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 3: I was afraid, and then I was alone again. And

913
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 3: I remember I would lay on my little cot in

914
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 3: this room that was like a cell and it was

915
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 3: so hot, like being in an attic because there was

916
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 3: no air conditioning and there were cockroaches. I went, don't

917
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 3: picture this like a hotel room. I'm laying there and

918
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:30,399
Speaker 3: I can't even feel my body. It just felt like wood.

919
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 3: I mean, my trauma was really seriously deep. And in

920
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 3: the afternoon he comes back and he brings sister Debbie

921
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 3: with him, who happens to not be an old lady

922
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 3: by the way. He brings sister Debbie with him, and

923
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 3: they come in and they confess, Chad is not a prophet,

924
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 3: We're not believers. They pretended they were believers. Okay, Chad

925
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 3: is an atheist. Were atheists. We're sorry we helped him

926
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 3: deceive you and exploit you. But he told us that

927
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 3: if we told you the truth that you would die.

928
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:27,320
Speaker 3: And this person, who, this young man, his name was Jeff,

929
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 3: was a hero. I mean I would have died within

930
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 3: the week had he not come clean.

931
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: What is that like when, I mean, can your brain

932
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: process it immediately?

933
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 4: Or how much?

934
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 5: Thank you for asking that question.

935
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 3: I remember collapsing to the floor on my knees, you know,

936
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:53,240
Speaker 3: leaning forward, rocking back and forth, and watching my life

937
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 3: pass before my eyes, thinking that everything that I had

938
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 3: gone through, everything that I had lost, everything that I

939
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 3: had almost lost, including my life, was in vain. It

940
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 3: was for someone's sadistic entertainment and to get money for

941
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 3: his fiancee to go shopping. I remember wailing on that

942
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 3: floor when they're in there, wailing, just wailing, and I

943
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 3: said to her, I screamed, you know.

944
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 5: I begged you for the truth.

945
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,919
Speaker 3: You know. Her response was, I thought you would die

946
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 3: if I told you the truth, And It's kind of

947
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 3: a hard thing for me to buy because I was

948
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 3: about to die from suicide, if not from one of

949
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 3: the men.

950
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 4: She knew that.

951
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 2: I mean, you were writing them and saying like, why

952
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 2: is this happening to me? Why would God want these

953
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,240
Speaker 2: horrible things? Like she fucking knew she did.

954
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 3: No, she was an accomplice, full blown accomplice. She was

955
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 3: a Sheila. And then Jeff was a hero and he couldn't.

956
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 3: He would have come back sooner, but he had to

957
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 3: drag her there. She even came to the hotel and

958
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 3: picked up money. You know, So I'm a trafficking victim

959
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 3: at the hands of an atheist using my religious beliefs

960
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 3: to open the door, to get me to trust, to

961
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 3: get me into a situation where I am then out

962
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 3: of control.

963
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 4: I mean, he did it seamlessly.

964
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 5: He did.

965
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 3: Afterwards, I I needed I probably I should have been

966
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 3: in a hospital, you know, like a ret rehab or something.

967
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 5: I was in so much distress.

968
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 3: I made a police report and the police did not

969
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 3: even offer me a victim's advocate because they said, well,

970
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:15,720
Speaker 3: it was a fraud, but you believed him so awful

971
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 3: And you know now they understand things better. They wouldn't

972
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 3: respond like that now. But I ended up getting therapy,

973
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 3: getting diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder and dealing it

974
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 3: with dealing with it for years and years. And then

975
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 3: I went on a mission, a different kind of mission,

976
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 3: a mission of my own, to discover what happened to

977
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 3: my brain? How did I go from being an entrepreneur,

978
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 3: a published author, young mother of the year, a respected

979
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 3: and smart, I thought person in my community to being

980
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 3: the lowliest of the low, with nothing left. Even my

981
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 3: hopes and dreams were on But when I recovered my children,

982
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 3: that was the redeeming factor. When all this happened, and

983
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 3: I realized that all this was in vain and it

984
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 3: was I mean, the level of cruelty was just world

985
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 3: record to me.

986
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you confront him? Were you able to get

987
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: at least that.

988
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 3: I did it in writing? I did it in writing

989
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 3: incentive to him in jail. So and I put all

990
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 3: this evidence in and at any rate, but what I

991
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 3: learned It took me about a decade. What I learned

992
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 3: is that I needed to stop blaming myself. I blamed

993
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 3: myself for years because everybody else did too, and I

994
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 3: thought I had something seriously wrong with my brain. I

995
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 3: really thought that I had mental illness, that I could

996
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 3: have fallen for that, and I tried to get tested

997
00:58:58,600 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 3: to see what is.

998
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 5: My brain damage, what is wrong with me?

999
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 3: That I felt for that. And it wasn't until I

1000
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 3: got therapy from a cult expert named Steve Hassen and

1001
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 3: I read his book that I realized that people fall

1002
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 3: into these groups. They get attracted into these groups. I

1003
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 3: mean thousands and thousands of people were in situations like me.

1004
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 3: It wasn't just me. I thought nobody else would ever

1005
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 3: fall for this, nobody would have something like this happened

1006
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 3: to them. But now that I'm in the world of

1007
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 3: helping cult survivors, dozens, hundreds, thousands of women have been

1008
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 3: sexually exploited by their cult leaders, and nobody joins a cult.

1009
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 3: People get involved in movements that they sincerely believe are true,

1010
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 3: are going to make a difference in the world. And

1011
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 3: the same with Alison ma I err on the side

1012
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 3: of compassion for Elis and Mac because there is a

1013
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 3: process by which people get influence. It's called undue influence.

1014
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 3: Because you know, the person that has so much power,

1015
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 3: access to God, who can argue with that, who can

1016
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 3: argue with the smartest man in the world. It's never

1017
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 3: the woman that's right, you know, or the follower. It's

1018
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 3: always the leader. It's he always has some sort of

1019
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 3: way to get information that nobody can question. So the

1020
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 3: unquestionable guru takes advantage of that power and step by

1021
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 3: step creates one sacrifice after another after another, until you're

1022
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 3: so invested you don't want to believe that this person

1023
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 3: is evil.

1024
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 5: But this is in vain, Yeah, you know.

1025
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 3: So when I learned it was all false, although it

1026
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 3: was traumatic, suddenly things made sense. I suddenly I knew

1027
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 3: I could round up my children, and I knew it

1028
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 3: wasn't God telling me I wasn't worthy to raise my beautiful,

1029
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 3: incredible children. It was it was you know, dare I

1030
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 3: say it? I mean, I've often wondered if he's a psychopath.

1031
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 2: I mean, he's obviously a psychopath, Like, why is there

1032
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 2: even I mean sure, I am not his medical professional.

1033
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 2: I cannot legally technically diagnose him with sociopathy. It is

1034
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 2: my strong opinion that he's a psychopath. I do not

1035
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 2: believe he's a person who has exhibited empathetic qualities personally.

1036
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 2: It seems like a good time to add in a

1037
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 2: disclaimer about Chad's perspective here, Okay, it's been a roller coaster.

1038
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 2: In an interview with the with the Utah newspaper in

1039
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, Chad told her reporter that my

1040
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 2: mom projected divine status onto him, and she convinced herself

1041
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 2: that he was a prophet, and he just ran with it.

1042
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 2: He said that she volunteered the money for him. In

1043
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 2: the same article, he did admit, though, to deceiving her

1044
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 2: religiously and playing on her religious beliefs, and he said

1045
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 2: he was sorry about doing that. And then later he

1046
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 2: said that he actually had to tell the reporter that

1047
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 2: he made the sealed portion up for legal reasons, but

1048
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 2: he really did translate it from an angel and he

1049
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 2: really was a prophet, but still claimed that my mom

1050
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 2: was making up her part and presumably was saying that

1051
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 2: all the emails she had from him were forged. I guess.

1052
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 2: And then in a twenty seventeen podcast, he flip flopped

1053
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 2: again and said, JK, he really did make the sealed

1054
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 2: portion up. It was all a lie to get people

1055
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 2: to stop believing in the Book of Mormon. And now

1056
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 2: his platform has moved on to more political oriented beliefs.

1057
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 2: But at every stage he's maintained that my mom is

1058
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 2: just a vengeful ex lover. Though of course a handful

1059
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:00,160
Speaker 2: of other ex followers have spoken out about him, including men,

1060
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 2: and I imagine there will be more to come. But

1061
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 2: so if Chad has anything to add to this conversation,

1062
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 2: we invite him to submit a statement in response to

1063
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:15,440
Speaker 2: this episode. We will verbally state it on the episode.

1064
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 2: That will be interesting.

1065
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 4: Is he still is he still work in the work

1066
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 4: in his program.

1067
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 3: Oh, as a matter of fact, he just last week,

1068
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 3: speaking of cult news, was found guilty of fraud and racketeering.

1069
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 4: No, for the very same stuff.

1070
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 2: Chad shocking. No, I mean like it's when you hear

1071
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 2: your story, it sounds like there's it's just this isolated

1072
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 2: incident that he just decided to pray on this poor woman,

1073
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 2: But he prayed on so many people, including men.

1074
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 3: Still does it, including man And he goes after people

1075
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 3: with money. Yeah, And that's that's one of the myths

1076
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 3: about cults. They think that, you know, the pub tends

1077
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 3: to think that only like these last teenagers or young

1078
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 3: adults that have a big hole in their life are

1079
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 3: looking for something to get attracted to.

1080
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 5: Cults.

1081
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 3: And while they might have a special vulnerability, everybody is

1082
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 3: vulnerable because everybody has something they love. If you love something,

1083
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 3: that's your vulnerability. If you have a dream for something,

1084
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 3: that's your vulnerability. Everybody has vulnerabilities. And if you have

1085
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 3: a master manipulator, he will hone in on those. So

1086
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 3: all of those people listening that say I'm too smart

1087
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 3: for this, nobody can get me.

1088
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 5: You're a sitting deck.

1089
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, watch your back, dude.

1090
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 5: It might be a chick too.

1091
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, yeah, I mean, I know incredibly

1092
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 2: successful screenwriters who've joined cults. There are you know, business

1093
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 2: I mean, look at the look at Nexium.

1094
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean, just sitting here thinking about it a batter.

1095
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 1: Reallylationship is almost like joining in you.

1096
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 3: Can have you can have a cult of too, you can.

1097
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: So, you know, the smartest people in the world, the

1098
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 1: most beautiful, they're in crazy abusive relationships all the time.

1099
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 2: So that having just having that power over somebody exactly.

1100
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 3: It can happen to everybody. There are dynamics. Now I

1101
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 3: understand it, you know. Now I'm finishing my PhD in psychology,

1102
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 3: and I understand the pressures of you know, social pressure

1103
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 3: and the power of social proof and influence in small groups,

1104
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 3: and and and critical thinking and loss of version, all

1105
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 3: these crazy things, But that's what happens. It can happen

1106
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 3: in a relationship of two, It can happen in a family,

1107
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 3: It can happen in a workplace. There are political cults,

1108
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 3: there are self help cults. And if you suspect that

1109
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 3: you're in a cult, you'll you'll have some signs. You know,

1110
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 3: they'll try to control your behavior. They'll try to control

1111
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 3: the information that you're getting, or tell you not to

1112
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 3: go on the internet and read.

1113
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 2: That absive relationship. Yeah, if you're in a group that

1114
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 2: tells you not to read about the group or not

1115
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 2: to talk to anyone else about the group, you're probably in.

1116
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 1: A If you're dating a guy who says, don't talk

1117
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 1: to any of my ex girlfriends, you're.

1118
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 3: That's good. That's good, right. These are good signs. And

1119
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 3: colds attract the best people in the world. And if

1120
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 3: you were in one, consider it a considerate about If

1121
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 3: you were in one, consider it a badge of honor.

1122
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 3: You've survived it, you came out, and you have a

1123
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 3: story to tell.

1124
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:45,479
Speaker 4: What do you believe in now?

1125
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not an atheist. Mom, I am not.

1126
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 3: I did not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

1127
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 3: There was a time when I thought none of this

1128
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 3: is true nothing, It's all just fiction. Now I see

1129
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 3: a purpose in religion. I mean, I study positive psychology,

1130
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 3: and one of the factors of happiness is having a

1131
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 3: spiritual life, having a religious community. And I think religion

1132
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 3: gives a purpose and a meaning to lives. And I

1133
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 3: recommend people have a religion, just don't let it control you.

1134
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 2: I would want to ask you in a nutshell, what

1135
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 2: do you think? What would you say that you learn

1136
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 2: from this experience?

1137
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 5: Okay?

1138
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 3: I learned that I had faulty thinking. I learned that

1139
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 3: looking for signs and coincidences and trying to give them

1140
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 3: godly meaning is very dangerous. I learned to believe what

1141
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 3: I see, Yeah, to see things, to know for a fact,

1142
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 3: to not believe in good feelings. That good feelings are

1143
01:07:57,800 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 3: not proof of truth.

1144
01:07:59,040 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 2: Right.

1145
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 3: I learned that somebody can have This is the biggest thing.

1146
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 3: I learned that somebody can put on in an incredible

1147
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 3: show of goodness. Help the poor and needy. Let's save

1148
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,879
Speaker 3: the world, Let's save the trees, Let's save the government.

1149
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 3: It's always a great mission or cause to save the world,

1150
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 3: but the people behind it, with their great mission and

1151
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 3: cause could be really just donning a costume and it's

1152
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 3: really all about them.

1153
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bigger that parade is the bigger that show

1154
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 2: of all of how great of a heart they have

1155
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 2: or whatever. The less I trust it.

1156
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 4: And narcissists are a hell of a dry.

1157
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, they all have to have this mission to

1158
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 3: attract people. And quite frankly, a lot of cults do

1159
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:54,719
Speaker 3: a lot of good too. They're not one hundred percent bad.

1160
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 3: So just watch it and don't believe for one minute

1161
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 3: that because your teacher is to teaching great things that

1162
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 3: he's not also in the back room molesting.

1163
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:07,640
Speaker 2: Somebody exactly exactly. It's that that's the great area that

1164
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 2: I feel like people don't grasp as I did, and

1165
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 2: bad right in these groups and in these people like

1166
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 2: just because there is good there does not mean that

1167
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 2: there isn't bad there, exactly.

1168
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 3: Like even Alison mac I think she had a big

1169
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 3: wake up. I read her pleading and she was like, Wow,

1170
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 3: I thought we were helping people. I thought I was

1171
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 3: helping Keith help people. I didn't realize all these other

1172
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 3: things he was doing and and we'll.

1173
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 2: Never know if that's if that's true or not, We'll

1174
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 2: never know. But like, but I think it is important

1175
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 2: to start changing how we think about people who have

1176
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:55,439
Speaker 2: been brainwashed because you, like I said, like you you create,

1177
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 2: they create a new identity for you that you would

1178
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 2: never have created for yourself. And you people things that

1179
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:03,000
Speaker 2: they would have never believe they're capable of as you did.

1180
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 5: Right, And it's traumatic brain manipulation.

1181
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:09,680
Speaker 2: Right exactly. I'd like to take this opportunity to make

1182
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 2: fun of Chad and where he is now.

1183
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 3: Great, would you like to bear your testimony.

1184
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:17,599
Speaker 2: I'd like to bear my testimony. But I know that

1185
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 2: Chad is not a prophet. He has a website that

1186
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 2: we will not give to you guys because we don't

1187
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:30,680
Speaker 2: want to. Let's just say one of his messages is

1188
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 2: to end human trafficking. Oh within one week. Wow. The

1189
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 2: government just needs to listen to his plan and human

1190
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:46,600
Speaker 2: trafficking will be over. He is an advocate for victims

1191
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:47,799
Speaker 2: of human traffick.

1192
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,639
Speaker 3: Why didn't you know it?

1193
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 4: This website's wild.

1194
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:55,679
Speaker 3: Well, if you're okay, if you come out of a culture,

1195
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 3: if you know somebody come out that has come out

1196
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 3: of a cult. I do recommend you get involved in

1197
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 3: a support group and there are some on Facebook and

1198
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 3: I run a couple and I think it's important to

1199
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 3: take what happened to you and turn it into something positive.

1200
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's what you've done. I remember before

1201
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 2: you started really talking about it, it was such a

1202
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 2: source of fear for you, and it was something that

1203
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:23,360
Speaker 2: you didn't even want to touch. We couldn't talk about

1204
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:25,680
Speaker 2: it at all. It was just too big for you.

1205
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,679
Speaker 2: It was too hard and understandably, what you went through

1206
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 2: was so traumatic, you know, I think that would be

1207
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 2: true for anyone. And then once you started reshaping your

1208
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 2: own narrative and reclaiming your story and like accepting that

1209
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:41,560
Speaker 2: it had happened and finding ways to interpret it that

1210
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:46,840
Speaker 2: helped your life, you got so much better. I have

1211
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 2: observed you grow so much and thank your money feel

1212
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:52,759
Speaker 2: so much. So don't be afraid of telling your story.

1213
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 4: Guys.

1214
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 2: Amen, Well, thank you for coming WAMI.

1215
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 4: Where can they find you on social media? Yeah? I have.

1216
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 3: My charity is called Voices for Dignity.

1217
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 4: Oh I love that.

1218
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:08,839
Speaker 3: Voices for Dignity dot com and I'm Christine Marie Katis

1219
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 3: k A T A S.

1220
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:12,520
Speaker 5: On Instagram.

1221
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 2: So one of the things Megan and I talked about

1222
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 2: before we started this podcast was that she is kind

1223
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:24,439
Speaker 2: of susceptible to every cult. And so, Megan, would you

1224
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:26,800
Speaker 2: follow this leader? Would you join this group?

1225
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go no on this one, just

1226
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 1: because I think that he would.

1227
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just.

1228
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 4: He's not for me.

1229
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 1: No specific enough glitz, not enough glamour, not enough you know,

1230
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:46,839
Speaker 1: oneness and running around in the woods.

1231
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 2: Good glad, I got that covered, all right. You can

1232
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 2: find me Lola on Instagram at Ula Lola. Oh oh

1233
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 2: h l A l O l A.

1234
01:12:57,040 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 1: You can just find me at Megan Granger me ag

1235
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:03,719
Speaker 1: and Jerry I n G E R. All right, guys,

1236
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: thanks for listening. We just want you to remember one thing,

1237
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 1: and that is follow your gut, watch out for red flags,

1238
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 1: and never ever trust me Y