Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast, recorded
Speaker 1: live here high in the Hollywood Hills. My guest today
Speaker 1: is truly a legend, seymour Stein. An amazing thing is
Speaker 1: coming into the house of his daughter is all the photographs.
Speaker 1: If you are a fan of rock history, he's got
Speaker 1: a photo collage of the Stones so young. For a
Speaker 1: second you're not sure it's them, including another photo with
Speaker 1: the Ramons and David Bowie and the Talking Heads. It's
Speaker 1: really just incredible now having read your book, not that
Speaker 1: we need to advertise your book, but people should read
Speaker 1: your book. Sirens Song. You talk about Thanksgiving where Elton
Speaker 1: John is gonna play Madison Square Garden and John Lennon
Speaker 1: has scenes with him that night. How does everybody end
Speaker 1: up in your apartment? Well, Elton was staying with me.
Speaker 1: I mean Elton got for a period of time, got
Speaker 1: disgusted with hotels because people were always you know, you know,
Speaker 1: attacking him. I don't mean in a bad way, but
Speaker 1: they wouldn't leave him alone. Um. I go way back
Speaker 1: with Elton and and and my my wife really went
Speaker 1: out of her way always to accommodate him and everything.
Speaker 1: And we had a big apartment right on Central Park West,
Speaker 1: and he stayed there several times. Um, and he actually
Speaker 1: wrote some of his songs in that apartment. Yeah whatever, Oh,
Speaker 1: let me think, Um, I think maybe I'll think of
Speaker 1: it later. But and what I do remember is that
Speaker 1: my older daughter, who was about two years old then
Speaker 1: she heard the song, came pounding away at it so
Speaker 1: much that she uh wound up, you know, singing it
Speaker 1: at such a young age. It was. It was incredible.
Speaker 1: But he stayed there many times. And he was staying
Speaker 1: there over Thanksgiving and he said, look, the boys, you
Speaker 1: know the band so the English you know, Richard Griffith's
Speaker 1: manager of One Direction, many other things. What he says
Speaker 1: In England they refer to the band as the Boys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well he said, he said, the boys are very nervous
Speaker 1: about working with John Lennon. Tonight. He said, do you
Speaker 1: think we could come? They could come over to the
Speaker 1: house and uh, you know, just maybe have a Thanksgiving dinner.
Speaker 1: And my wife's father was a Kosh caterer and uh
Speaker 1: he made the most fantastic, you know, turkey dinner for everybody.
Speaker 1: They watched the parade, they calmed down and you know
Speaker 1: then um Elton and I walked over to the Dakota,
Speaker 1: which was three blocks away on Central Park West, and
Speaker 1: John was living at made Panglin and then uh he
Speaker 1: came back to the house, and uh, you know it
Speaker 1: was it was a great thrill. I mean I had
Speaker 1: met him before. But okay, you meet John John Lennon,
Speaker 1: Are you nervous around John Lennon? No? So what I
Speaker 1: mean by that is you can act normally, but are
Speaker 1: you somewhat star struck? This is this is the pinnacle
Speaker 1: of rock stardom. Well, I wouldn't be starved. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: they were stars, they were great, you know I I
Speaker 1: I was more star struck when I met Fats Domino.
Speaker 1: If you want to know the truth, when did you
Speaker 1: meet Fats? Uh? Several times in New Orleans? And uh,
Speaker 1: I took him to dinner, a lunch, a couple of
Speaker 1: times at the Commander's Palace and things like that. Meeting
Speaker 1: little Richard, I mean, you know, little recent You're you're
Speaker 1: about at least ten years younger than day. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know you would you would relate more to the
Speaker 1: Beatles and the Rolling Stones and stars. I spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time with the Rolling Stones. In fact, I
Speaker 1: was with them the night of the that first big
Speaker 1: blackout in New York with Andrew Oldham was still a
Speaker 1: very very dear friend. Did you ever interview him? He yeah,
Speaker 1: I did. Oh he's a good friend. I went to
Speaker 1: fascinating Oh yeah, he's his wife is great, two great people.
Speaker 1: So um, I was with them the night of the
Speaker 1: We didn't know it was going to be a blackout,
Speaker 1: but it was. And uh, yes, exactly, and it was
Speaker 1: their first I think it was their first time over.
Speaker 1: So um. And uh, you know, um, Frankly I was
Speaker 1: more a rolling Stone guy than uh. That's how he's
Speaker 1: had the battle on w ABC every Saturday night. But
Speaker 1: but but you know, I think it's the people that
Speaker 1: your star struck with when you're very young. And uh,
Speaker 1: I I wasn't all that I wasn't old, but I
Speaker 1: wasn't all that that young. To me. It was the
Speaker 1: rhythm and blues artists, and you know Hank Williams, who
Speaker 1: of course I never got to me. He was long
Speaker 1: gone before that. But those are those are the people
Speaker 1: studying with your point that I'm a decade younger than you.
Speaker 1: It seemed to me that the Beatles were really a
Speaker 1: transformation explosion. With your perspective, do you just see them
Speaker 1: as another band in the continuum or do you see
Speaker 1: that as a turning point. Of course, there are many
Speaker 1: turning points. I mean, and they were. They were a
Speaker 1: big turning point. Okay, So let's go back to me.
Speaker 1: You're from Brooklyn, absolutely, Benjamin, and your father does what
Speaker 1: for a living? He works in the garment center. He
Speaker 1: was in charge of the show room, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: the buyers would come up and uh look over the
Speaker 1: the you know, the items and decide what to order
Speaker 1: and how many and all of that. And so he
Speaker 1: would just show things, he would sell them to No. No,
Speaker 1: he I don't think he I don't think he sold.
Speaker 1: But no, he just he worked there. He was it
Speaker 1: was not okay, and he was not his company. And
Speaker 1: he was born where in the United States, on the
Speaker 1: lower reast side. He grew up on a street called
Speaker 1: Sheriff Street. And his parents were from the Old Country,
Speaker 1: as we said, Yes, and my mother's parents were from
Speaker 1: the Old Country to um you know, and you know, okay,
Speaker 1: so they were first generations Americans. You're growing up. Uh.
Speaker 1: It seems like if you when read your book, that
Speaker 1: you're the prince. You're like the you know, the the
Speaker 1: star of the family. Hands off, you gotta treat you right.
Speaker 1: I see more sisters in the room, and she's a
Speaker 1: little older and she's not a yes. Well you know, um,
Speaker 1: I my parents were quite strict, but they also, um
Speaker 1: you know, I think at a certain point they realized
Speaker 1: that was different, and uh they kind of let me
Speaker 1: have my way. I mean I think that's what. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So how would you characterize this difference. Well, look, I
Speaker 1: was born with a hole in my heart, and so
Speaker 1: I didn't play sports. Um, and I found other ways
Speaker 1: to you know, occupy my you know, my time. I
Speaker 1: collected stamps, uh, actually collected bottle caps and all different
Speaker 1: kinds of things. But um, you know, but when I
Speaker 1: first heard music, and it's thanks to my sister because
Speaker 1: we had a two bedrooms small apartment, you know, and
Speaker 1: uh we shared a bedroom, which I'm sure was not
Speaker 1: easy for her. And uh but that's the first music
Speaker 1: I really heard was on her radio. Okay, this is
Speaker 1: in the fifties, no going back before that. Okay, so
Speaker 1: this is before the era of transistor radios. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: these were no way. Yes, So there's a big console
Speaker 1: radio it's not a big one, but you know, I
Speaker 1: would say, Okay, he's demonstrating something about you know, ten
Speaker 1: by five and so and so. What music were you
Speaker 1: hearing on the radio? Well? Uh, pop music for the
Speaker 1: most part. Uh. And every Saturday I would rush home
Speaker 1: from the synagogue to listen to Martin Block in the
Speaker 1: crystal studio of the Make Believe Ballroom. It's make Believe
Speaker 1: Ballroom time, you know. And he would play the top
Speaker 1: pop hits and uh, you know I I would write
Speaker 1: them down. I mean, thank god my father didn't walk
Speaker 1: in the room with shabbis, but you know, and keep
Speaker 1: track of of of all of what was going on.
Speaker 1: And um, was this a solo pursuit? Were your parents
Speaker 1: playing records or in My parents didn't play that. Annie did.
Speaker 1: My sister did, but we had a phonograph and uh,
Speaker 1: she had records and uh, I mean and of course
Speaker 1: later on I started buying records. This is but since
Speaker 1: you're such a passionate fan, do you remember the first
Speaker 1: record you bought? I think it might have been Uh,
Speaker 1: I can't say for sure. It might have been Shaboom
Speaker 1: by the Chords, you know, Um that I've got fifty
Speaker 1: four Um, and um, maybe I think earlier, I mean
Speaker 1: even even than that. Um, but I do remember, you know,
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, running to a record store and
Speaker 1: I wasn't supposed to run when I was walked. This
Speaker 1: is my later This is nineteen fifties six. Um. I
Speaker 1: was walking down the street and uh dah road where
Speaker 1: I lived, and uh, I heard this song coming out
Speaker 1: of the wind window and you know, it sounded like
Speaker 1: Elvis Presley, Don't be cruel, you know, and I quoted
Speaker 1: it to the girl who lived up there. You know,
Speaker 1: her name was a Uh. You remember there was the
Speaker 1: first house, uh, after the six family houses. I said,
Speaker 1: what is that? What is it? Says that's the new
Speaker 1: Elvis Presley record. I said, no, it's not. The new
Speaker 1: record is hound Dog? And he said no, this is
Speaker 1: the other side. And I had money in my pocket.
Speaker 1: The record store was about nine blocks away. It was
Speaker 1: actually a TV repair shop and they stuff sold some
Speaker 1: records in their drags TV and uh, I ran there
Speaker 1: and I got the last copy. Pretty astounding. I mean,
Speaker 1: that was ahm, It's definition of a hit. You're lying
Speaker 1: in bed listening to the radio at midnight and you
Speaker 1: gotta get up, take off your pajamas and run to
Speaker 1: the all night record store just to buy that record. No,
Speaker 1: what's at midnight? I know, but you're living? I mean
Speaker 1: that was his you know aphorism. Yea. So at what
Speaker 1: point in your listening career do you say to yourself,
Speaker 1: I think this is my passion, this is what I
Speaker 1: want to do for a living, if at all? Well, uh,
Speaker 1: I think it happened quite by accident. Um. I I
Speaker 1: had the books, you know, starting with about nine fifty
Speaker 1: that I kept, and then I wanted to go backwards.
Speaker 1: So I went up to Billboard and uh, a little
Speaker 1: bit slower. You just you find Billboard? How from? You
Speaker 1: look it up in the phone book? No, I Billboard.
Speaker 1: Martin Block was always talking about bill Board, he was
Speaker 1: that was where he was playing the music from. So
Speaker 1: I looked it up. They were in the Palace Theater
Speaker 1: building and I went up there a seventh floor and
Speaker 1: I said, look, is there any way I can get
Speaker 1: access to the old charts there? So um, he said, well,
Speaker 1: I'll ask the chart at it to come out, you know.
Speaker 1: And that was tom Noon in a fabulous person. I
Speaker 1: knew Tommy. I never realized he went back that far
Speaker 1: reading your book it kind of started me. But and
Speaker 1: he made a space for me, gave me a desk,
Speaker 1: and he kept bringing out the bound volumes. There was
Speaker 1: you know, I had to write it all down. There
Speaker 1: was no way of So your goal in doing this
Speaker 1: was what going you know, going back in time, you know,
Speaker 1: so that I'd know more about the past. But what
Speaker 1: if you could write them down, but you couldn't necessarily
Speaker 1: hear them. It's not like but but you know, no,
Speaker 1: I couldn't necessarily hear them. But some of those some
Speaker 1: of the songs were familiar to me by then, you know.
Speaker 1: And uh, but the main thing that what happened was
Speaker 1: it brought me into the heart of the music district.
Speaker 1: All the indies were very much around that area. Three
Speaker 1: of the majors were close by. So for those who
Speaker 1: were not around then, the legend is the Brill Building. Yes,
Speaker 1: close by, close by, but the Brill Building was more
Speaker 1: for publishers. But there were a few record companies in there.
Speaker 1: It's a misnoma. But sixteen fifty was all a lot
Speaker 1: of little record companies and yeah, and uh yeah, sixteen
Speaker 1: fifty Broadway and then I mean King Records had a
Speaker 1: place on fifty four Street, and you know, high Wise
Speaker 1: with old Town Records and the old old you know,
Speaker 1: the smaller labels where their Jubilee was a great little
Speaker 1: label and they were all, you know, within that vicinity.
Speaker 1: And I realized, you know what am I gone ackwards for?
Speaker 1: I should be going forward? And Billboard Paul Ackerman was
Speaker 1: so nice to meet. Paul Ackman was the editor music
Speaker 1: editor for forty years. And you also in your books
Speaker 1: say that he was a mention an educated guy. Oh,
Speaker 1: he was very much an educated guy. But he loved music,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's he was the first journalist to
Speaker 1: be inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: There are only two jan when as the other and
Speaker 1: you know, but Paul, Paul was very nice to me.
Speaker 1: And he used to say, look, uh, somebody specialist coming
Speaker 1: to our review session tonight and now a Billboard review
Speaker 1: back then before you go there. So the first day
Speaker 1: you go and you meet Tommy noon in and usual desk.
Speaker 1: How frequently are you going to Billboard? If this as
Speaker 1: as frequently as he could that twice a week, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, and uh, you know, and one
Speaker 1: time or twice he said, you know, if you're not
Speaker 1: doing anything over the weekend, I can get you access
Speaker 1: to it so you can spend the whole day here.
Speaker 1: And uh I did that as well. This was after
Speaker 1: I got to know him. I whether I know where
Speaker 1: the bound volumes were, I would pick them out myself,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, uh, you know, Billboard goes back
Speaker 1: to the eighteen hundreds. I mean, but they didn't have Jog.
Speaker 1: I didn't go back that fall. But you know, but
Speaker 1: a Billboard review, a favorable review, a spotlight, could mean
Speaker 1: as many as seventy five thousand records being sold by
Speaker 1: a new artist, you know. I mean if it was
Speaker 1: not Cole or Sinatra or Patty Page or you know,
Speaker 1: somebody like that, Um, you know they would but they
Speaker 1: know what to buy. But if there was a new
Speaker 1: record by a new artist, uh, they looked at a
Speaker 1: Billboard review. And the you know, the charts was so
Speaker 1: slow in those days that you know, the droukebox operators
Speaker 1: would buy upwards of seventy five thousand records based on
Speaker 1: a Billboard a really strong Billboard review. And that's why
Speaker 1: all the indies went up there, you know, and prayed
Speaker 1: they could get, you know, a review. And that's how
Speaker 1: I met, said Nathan, that's how I met Lennon Chess. Uh.
Speaker 1: Uh and many many other of the are you telling
Speaker 1: a story? And I was interrupting you and you said, uh,
Speaker 1: either Tommy or Paul invited you to review meeting. Oh
Speaker 1: he not to review. No, they invited me to attend
Speaker 1: and give comments, you know as well. And that's where
Speaker 1: and the uh that was done on a Wednesday night.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh. Billboard had do bills at hotels because
Speaker 1: they put in free advertising and got rooms and so
Speaker 1: I actually, you know, I would go to school Thursday
Speaker 1: morning from New York. You know, I'm take the West
Speaker 1: End to Lafayette, the West End line, so um, it
Speaker 1: was fabulous. And my parents, you know, by that time,
Speaker 1: you know, they either they washed their hands with me
Speaker 1: or that you know, they saw that there was no
Speaker 1: minimum college for you. Well, no, they they they wanted
Speaker 1: me to go to college. And I didn't give up
Speaker 1: on college until the very very end. I mean, I
Speaker 1: mean right after I graduated high school. I even investigated
Speaker 1: going to school for journalism, and then Billboard offered me
Speaker 1: a full time job and I said, look, I can
Speaker 1: learn more here, you know, And I became Tom's assistant
Speaker 1: with the charts and Paul, let me do a few
Speaker 1: reviews of shows and uh, you know, but you must
Speaker 1: have been thrilled. Thrilled us, Oh, thrilled, isn't the word beyond? Okay?
Speaker 1: So then ultimately a turning point your story as you
Speaker 1: meet Sid Nathan. Yes, I met him at one of
Speaker 1: those billboard review sessions. Okay. So they would let record
Speaker 1: owners come in and picture the records. Yes, of course,
Speaker 1: you know, and I mean sometimes they were influenced by that.
Speaker 1: I think, I don't know. I think in the end
Speaker 1: it was really the record and I mean I think
Speaker 1: most of them, you know, uh, you know, brought really
Speaker 1: what they really really believed and because they didn't want to,
Speaker 1: uh you know, waste billboards time. So how do you
Speaker 1: ultimately established relationship with Sid? Well, he invited everyone out
Speaker 1: for dinner after the session, and you know, I was
Speaker 1: invited along and we started talking and you know, and
Speaker 1: he said, look, you know, do you have many of
Speaker 1: my records? I said, I have a few of them,
Speaker 1: King records. He said, well, you know, come by my
Speaker 1: my office, you know, when you can, and I'll give
Speaker 1: you whatever you want, you know, And I did, And
Speaker 1: that's how it all started. And then um, I kept
Speaker 1: seeing him when he came to New York and uh,
Speaker 1: then he invited me out to stay with his family
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati, and he said, you'll really learn the music
Speaker 1: business if you if you come out here, and believe me,
Speaker 1: I did. I mean it was okay. So for those
Speaker 1: people don't know, give us a little bit of a
Speaker 1: make on sid Nathan Well King Records, Uh was based
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati. He started it, and uh, it was one
Speaker 1: of the biggest rhythm and blues companies. I would put
Speaker 1: it up there with certainly with Atlanta, you know, Atlantic
Speaker 1: and Chess. I would say was one of the three
Speaker 1: most important R and B companies. But also they had
Speaker 1: a very strong country roster and they were the biggest
Speaker 1: indie in country music at the time. Star Day started
Speaker 1: a few years later, and uh, you know, but King
Speaker 1: was always bigger than So you go to Cincinnati. I mean,
Speaker 1: most New Yorkers after they've been in New York really
Speaker 1: can't live anywhere else. So what's it like going to Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: It was very interesting, actually, Um, I mean I stayed
Speaker 1: in this house and um, you know, I learned so
Speaker 1: much those two I did it for two summers, and uh,
Speaker 1: I learned so much. They weren't It wasn't a whole summer.
Speaker 1: Was about three weeks each time. And I mean he
Speaker 1: had me doing everything in the factory, including pressing records,
Speaker 1: which scared me to death. Um and uh playing. I
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in the studio, which I loved.
Speaker 1: They had a first class studio with an incredible engineer
Speaker 1: and so um and they had great a and Almond,
Speaker 1: I mean one of the greatest of all, Henry Glover
Speaker 1: and uh, but many other Sonny Thompson and people like that.
Speaker 1: But um, it was it was like being in heaven.
Speaker 1: You know, who owns the king Assets today? Oh God,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. It's passed through so many maybe Universal
Speaker 1: I I don't know. I hope they're using them properly
Speaker 1: whoever owns them. But at least they're available for people
Speaker 1: to listen to online. Yeah, so okay, So you do
Speaker 1: that for a couple of summers, and then what's your
Speaker 1: next thought. Well, then I was graduating, you know, high school,
Speaker 1: and decided to get to take a full time position
Speaker 1: at Billboard, which I did for about two and a
Speaker 1: half years. And Sid said to me, look, he said,
Speaker 1: do you want to be on the sidelines and stay
Speaker 1: at Billboard or do you want to be a player.
Speaker 1: You should be a player, he said, I'll give you
Speaker 1: a job out here in Cincinnati. I'll help you find
Speaker 1: an apartment. Until you can find an apartment. You know,
Speaker 1: you can stay with with us, and you know, and
Speaker 1: so I came out to Cincinnati, and that, you know,
Speaker 1: was great. I mean everything. I mean that I just
Speaker 1: lucked out with everything. You know, Well, you know, what's
Speaker 1: the cliche. You make your own luck. So they must
Speaker 1: have seen something in you, Yes, I guess, And there's
Speaker 1: an opportunity. So you work for sid and how do
Speaker 1: you move on from there? Well, her baby, I don't
Speaker 1: know if that name is. I know that is one
Speaker 1: of the original founders of Atlantic Records. He was the
Speaker 1: original founder and uh, you know, I'm it learned a
Speaker 1: lot from him. But it was a dentist right, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: And you don't want to go there, but I gotta
Speaker 1: go there now, perhaps to cease the long times. What
Speaker 1: does that mean? He used to write prescriptions for himself
Speaker 1: for cocaine. We'll take a quick break and come back
Speaker 1: with more of my conversation with Seymour Stein. I love
Speaker 1: getting together with music industry legends like seymour and hearing
Speaker 1: the history of their careers in the business. I love
Speaker 1: getting to the heart of someone's story, whether the famous
Speaker 1: performer or manager, or record label executive or you. This week,
Speaker 1: seymour Stein tells us about his journey to the top
Speaker 1: of the record business. Previously, if we talked with artists
Speaker 1: like Cascade Moby and Shirley Manson of Garbage. Whether you
Speaker 1: come for the music, or you come for the business,
Speaker 1: or you come for the personal be the first to
Speaker 1: hear next week's episode by subscribing to the podcast on
Speaker 1: tune in Apple wherever you listen to your podcast. While
Speaker 1: you're there, Please be sure to rate and review. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's get back to my conversation with seymour Stein. Well,
Speaker 1: the legend is that Herb gave m At the money
Speaker 1: to start Atlantic. Is that true? I don't know. I
Speaker 1: would I wouldn't. I wouldn't think that Ahmed had some money.
Speaker 1: Am came from Ahmed and his brother necessary Um had
Speaker 1: money because their father was quite wealthy. Their father was
Speaker 1: second to at a turk in Turkey, and he when
Speaker 1: when they dissolved the Ottoman Empire, and you know, he
Speaker 1: sent Ahmed's father first to be the ambassad at all,
Speaker 1: the Turkish ambassador in the Netherlands, then France, then England.
Speaker 1: And when it all happened for Amaan Nessuay, he was
Speaker 1: when they sent them to be the American ambassador, and
Speaker 1: they discovered jazz and rhythm and blues and it blew
Speaker 1: their minds. And I would imagine there was there was
Speaker 1: money in the Errigan family. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: um and but Herb, to be fair, was a much
Speaker 1: more accomplished, uh in the music business. I mean he
Speaker 1: had had, you know, a success at other labels and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, but I I know nothing about that, but
Speaker 1: I know that, you know, it was in the beginning.
Speaker 1: It was herban on it, you know. And so anyway,
Speaker 1: her now, by the time I met Herb, he was
Speaker 1: way down on his luck. He had a little label
Speaker 1: and you know, SID Distribute was distributing labels at that point.
Speaker 1: He was very early into that. Just to be clear,
Speaker 1: the CID is totally vertically integrated. He finds the acts,
Speaker 1: he signs the acts, he produces them. He has his
Speaker 1: own distributors. He had he had more distributed distribution locations
Speaker 1: than the majors. At one point there were twenty two
Speaker 1: all over the United States. And uh, a lot of
Speaker 1: these were one man operations, you know, like in a
Speaker 1: small city. You know, like a small city. But it
Speaker 1: was the guy would open, you know, get the orders phone.
Speaker 1: He would uh then pack them up and have them
Speaker 1: picked up whatever whoever the delivery people went back then.
Speaker 1: Um and in his spare time, you know, he would
Speaker 1: drive out and see all the local radio stations and
Speaker 1: do promotion as well. And one of one of the
Speaker 1: one of the most important guys, Bob kras Now was
Speaker 1: the head of the San Francisco branch. That's the way
Speaker 1: he got his start. Yes, well, Bob Krausing out another
Speaker 1: legend out and all over with us. He had Blue
Speaker 1: Thumb Records. He ultimately ran electorate, totally wiped out the
Speaker 1: roster and they had something in every genre and all
Speaker 1: that hit really pretty incredible. But um was the driver? Radio?
Speaker 1: What was the driver? You know? You could ship these records.
Speaker 1: Why were people buying them? Oh? I guess it was
Speaker 1: mostly radio. I mean, certainly for a new record, a
Speaker 1: new artist, it was radio. Um, I guess the more
Speaker 1: established artists, you know, people um, you know, would would
Speaker 1: if they were fans, they would wait, you know, for
Speaker 1: the record. Well, since you mentioned earlier, the jukeboxes very important,
Speaker 1: very very important, and you know, um because you know,
Speaker 1: in like the black African American markets, you know, late neighborhoods,
Speaker 1: they would be packed with great rhythm and blues songs,
Speaker 1: you know, in in places where there were country fans,
Speaker 1: they'd be you know, packed with records by you know,
Speaker 1: Farren Young and Webb Pierce and Hank Williams and Kitty
Speaker 1: Wells and people like that. And so a lot of
Speaker 1: records were sold off of droop boxes and you know,
Speaker 1: but radio I think was was the main stay. You know.
Speaker 1: So anyway you meet her, he's done on his luck.
Speaker 1: Well I had met him before, I know, I knew her,
Speaker 1: I mean, and I admired him. He had the record company.
Speaker 1: He said, uh, he said, why don't you come back
Speaker 1: to New York and work for me? And he kept calling,
Speaker 1: you know, and I was, you know, Cincinnati, it's it's
Speaker 1: not a bad city. It's beautiful city, really, I mean
Speaker 1: in an important city. It was at one time the
Speaker 1: eighth largest city in America. Beautiful in the Ohio River
Speaker 1: and all that, but I'm in New Yorker, so I
Speaker 1: told I said, I said, look, Herbs offered me a job. Um,
Speaker 1: and I think I'm gonna take it. He said, seem
Speaker 1: when you're making a big mistake. He said, you'll be
Speaker 1: out of work in six months, he said, Herb does.
Speaker 1: He said, I'm doing a Herber favor. I'm really surprised
Speaker 1: he would talk to you like this. But he said,
Speaker 1: if you want to get back to New York, you know,
Speaker 1: do it. You'll be out of a job in six months. Well,
Speaker 1: Sid was wrong. I was out of work in three months,
Speaker 1: so you know, but you know, but luckily not too
Speaker 1: much long later, I got a call from George Goldener,
Speaker 1: who um I knew, and he was recommended to him
Speaker 1: by his lawyer, Warren Troupe, and I was quite friendly
Speaker 1: with his son, Ted, And he said, you know, Warren
Speaker 1: thinks you'd be a great assistant for me. He said,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just starting up a label with Lieber and
Speaker 1: stole a called Redbird Records. And I got the job there,
Speaker 1: and I learned so much from George, you know, and
Speaker 1: but you know, and then Redbird didn't last very long,
Speaker 1: but it was in the Brill Building, and I met everybody.
Speaker 1: Our office was next to Bobby Darren's office with you know,
Speaker 1: his publishing company, and uh a flora above we were
Speaker 1: on nine floor was ft G Productions, and that's where
Speaker 1: I met Richard Gottarett and we became I became friends
Speaker 1: with his two with all of them Feldman Goldstein and
Speaker 1: got her up. But they were having problems, not problems.
Speaker 1: They were thinking about going their own way. They already
Speaker 1: had their hit, They had all their hits that all
Speaker 1: their hits, you know, hang on sloopy, Uh, my boyfriend's back, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and um, you know, but all of it
Speaker 1: so um, but all the hits that they had together,
Speaker 1: that is. But then at the same time, Um, George
Speaker 1: and and Jerry Lieber in particular, we're not getting along,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, you know, George liked to have
Speaker 1: mafia people around him, the same way Bert Burns did,
Speaker 1: you know, And but not to the extent of bird Burns.
Speaker 1: But this really upset Jerry, and I think Mike too.
Speaker 1: But Mike was a lot more you know, placid and
Speaker 1: read the end of Redbud. I could see the end
Speaker 1: of Red Bird coming, and Richard asked me. You know,
Speaker 1: he said, look, he said, I'm gonna I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: splitting up my partners, he said, he said, you've got
Speaker 1: great ears. He said, I'm a great producer. He said,
Speaker 1: why don't we, uh, why don't we get together and start,
Speaker 1: you know, a production company. And by that time, tom
Speaker 1: Noonan was working at some at CBS, and he had
Speaker 1: his own label Date and he gave us a deal
Speaker 1: which gave us a good enough advance, uh to get started,
Speaker 1: plus all the free studio time and that we needed
Speaker 1: and and all of that. And Sid Nathan was closing
Speaker 1: down his New York office and and rented me. He
Speaker 1: owned the building. It was a Brownstone, and he rented
Speaker 1: me the the main floor for two hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: five dollars a month um. And I immediately rented the
Speaker 1: biggest room to the Rifkin brothers because Richard was still
Speaker 1: involved with the They managed a lot of the bands
Speaker 1: that Richard had had produced, you know, the McCoy's and
Speaker 1: and also the Strange Lads when they went on tour.
Speaker 1: So it what Strange Lads was got gotta right, yeah,
Speaker 1: felt there were the three of them. But yeah, so um,
Speaker 1: you know that's that's how SIA started, and you know,
Speaker 1: progressed as it went along. You know. Okay, how long
Speaker 1: after it starts do you have your first hit? First
Speaker 1: first income? Never mind hit? Were year when year to
Speaker 1: sires start? Um as a record company, we started about
Speaker 1: a year and a half later. And before you were
Speaker 1: what a publishing company? Production? Now we we're production company.
Speaker 1: And the records came out. Um you know so I
Speaker 1: mean though that you're saying, that's with your deal with
Speaker 1: doing it? Yes, now that that was with Date Records
Speaker 1: at CBS. We signed some really good artists, you know. Um. Uh,
Speaker 1: my friend Pete Bennett, the legendary promotion man, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you heard of him. He's a dear, dear friend. He said,
Speaker 1: I got somebody that's just right for your label, and
Speaker 1: he brought him down to me. And his name was
Speaker 1: Steven Tallarico. And I happen to know because when my
Speaker 1: newsletter used to be in print, he used his real name.
Speaker 1: That's all I knew who he was. Okay, so I
Speaker 1: signed him. We put out a record. Uh he wrote
Speaker 1: the song so Tellarico. The only place that made any
Speaker 1: noise was Italy and uh so it was called the son.
Speaker 1: And so his father comes to my office and says, uh,
Speaker 1: I want the contract back. I said, look, we're gonna
Speaker 1: go in the studio. Richard's going to make another record
Speaker 1: with him. He said, I want to contract back, and
Speaker 1: he took out a gun and and so I said,
Speaker 1: we'll put that away. Come on, So rich said to me, look,
Speaker 1: he said, I know from my days A bang he said,
Speaker 1: Because you know that, he said, give him the contract back,
Speaker 1: and which is what I did. But we had some
Speaker 1: good audits. Okay for those says we haven't revealed revealed
Speaker 1: who Steven Tallarico is. Oh well, Steven Tyler. Steven Steve
Speaker 1: Tallarico is Steven Tyler, and uh okay, So when you
Speaker 1: had him, was he doing the same act what ultimately
Speaker 1: it was in narrow Smith. It's going to listen to
Speaker 1: your record. Did it like Errol Smith? No? But it
Speaker 1: was a great song. I mean it really was. I mean,
Speaker 1: it comes once a day through the shade of my window.
Speaker 1: It da da da da da da. He was. Look,
Speaker 1: you don't think he just became talented when he started Arrowsmith.
Speaker 1: He was always talented. It was a great song. But uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think they paid that much attention
Speaker 1: to it, that's all. But then we started Sire Records,
Speaker 1: and uh we got our first distribution deal was through
Speaker 1: London Records, British Decker's own company, and so we had
Speaker 1: a little bit of success there. Nothing nothing great, I mean,
Speaker 1: but you're paying the bills. We're managing to stay keep
Speaker 1: our heads above water. Yeah we are. We weren't. We
Speaker 1: weren't taking much salary for ourselves and we're getting by
Speaker 1: and uh so, um, you know, I was very well
Speaker 1: looked after when I worked for George I must I
Speaker 1: must say that. So I had some money. Richard had
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of money, you know, and
Speaker 1: and all that. But um, you know, we we got by,
Speaker 1: you know, and then I decided, look, I want to
Speaker 1: I want to go. I skipped apart when I was
Speaker 1: when I was working at King uh Lenwood LG. Wood
Speaker 1: would come over to uh C SID every summer, and
Speaker 1: Lenwood was the managing director and later chairman of E.
Speaker 1: M I Records, the biggest record company in the world
Speaker 1: then and the only really truly global company at the time,
Speaker 1: especially since they after they bought capital in nineteen fifty two.
Speaker 1: So so lenn Is normally operating out of London. Oh,
Speaker 1: they're definitely so, because he would come in the summer
Speaker 1: to visit the companies that he had the licensees for
Speaker 1: outside of America, and King was one of the biggest
Speaker 1: ones he had, and he I think he gotta get
Speaker 1: of sit anyway, he was that part of the character
Speaker 1: said so, um, you know, and Sid had me in
Speaker 1: the room when I was talking to him, and he
Speaker 1: took you know, he must have saw something in me too.
Speaker 1: He said to me, Look, he said, uh, you really
Speaker 1: you know, know your stuff. And he said, look, you know,
Speaker 1: one day you're going to start your own company. I
Speaker 1: really believe that, and I want you to be. I
Speaker 1: want E M. I to be the first company you
Speaker 1: come to and see. Uh and I you know, And
Speaker 1: what was in back in my mind was, oh my god,
Speaker 1: if I started label. You know, Capital rejected the Beatles
Speaker 1: not once, but twice. They were first on VJ and
Speaker 1: then VJ. The BJ would have had him for six
Speaker 1: years except they you know, didn't they didn't pay any royalties.
Speaker 1: So um then uh, then they rejected she loves you.
Speaker 1: Can you believe that? So? And you love that? What
Speaker 1: came out on I'll tell you how that happened that
Speaker 1: He was never my lawyer, but he was my best
Speaker 1: one of my best friends. Paul Marshall was a genius
Speaker 1: lawyer and he represented E. M. I. And he said, look,
Speaker 1: he said, I'll get capital to take the Beatles up.
Speaker 1: He said, but you're gonna have to go with me.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this record to Swan. Dick Clark owns
Speaker 1: the label. I don't know if you knew that, I didn't,
Speaker 1: well you know it now. He owned he owned a
Speaker 1: piece of every label. You know. Alan Freed almost went
Speaker 1: to jail, but Dick Clark was you know, it was
Speaker 1: the one that really you know, the payola king and
Speaker 1: you can you can really, I mean he owned a
Speaker 1: piece of just about every label in Philadelphia. But Swan
Speaker 1: he owned himself. Had this guy Tony Mammarella run it
Speaker 1: for him. He said, look, I'll give it to I'll
Speaker 1: give it to Swan at a very low royalty and
Speaker 1: no renewals. He said. He said, Dick Clark will break
Speaker 1: this record and he did. And uh so. At the
Speaker 1: same time, Um, the Beatles had the top three hits
Speaker 1: on the Billboard. Trot Rotating Because She Loves You came back,
Speaker 1: um and uh, please please me came back and all
Speaker 1: of them so um, you know, and that was you know,
Speaker 1: and then Capital of course picked it up. But I
Speaker 1: figured if they could, you know, not put out the Beatles,
Speaker 1: what what other gems would they leave behind? That's where
Speaker 1: I signed the Climax Blues Band, Renaissance, Barcley, James Harvest, uh,
Speaker 1: Kevin Airs and many many other things for little or
Speaker 1: no advance. LG was wonderful to me. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: an interesting story I did. I kept my word that
Speaker 1: he would be the first person I saw, and uh
Speaker 1: he sent someone to meet me at the airport and
Speaker 1: I could hardly understand what he was saying. He had
Speaker 1: such a thick Scottish acts and he looked like he
Speaker 1: was about twelve years old. He was actually about seventeen.
Speaker 1: And he says, I said, uh, he said, I'm here
Speaker 1: to meet you. He said, I said, well, where's the cars?
Speaker 1: His car car? I could I drive? You know? And
Speaker 1: all that. It was John Reid, you know, who later
Speaker 1: became Melton's uh you know many things, and his manager
Speaker 1: and you know, so you know, and uh, that's how
Speaker 1: I first met John Reed and threw him Elton John
Speaker 1: and that's how I met Elton. So um. But anyway,
Speaker 1: uh that all those licensed records from E M I
Speaker 1: helped us a bit. And then the greatest thing happened
Speaker 1: was when I was putting out so many English records
Speaker 1: by em from E M I, all the other companies,
Speaker 1: the Dutch, the French, you know, the Spanish, they all
Speaker 1: started sending me my product. And I heard this record
Speaker 1: by a guitar player, jan Akaman, and I immediately fell
Speaker 1: in love with it. He had a rendition of Ode
Speaker 1: to Billy Joe, which was so fantastic instrumental. I called
Speaker 1: the guy up. I said, look, you know, uh, we
Speaker 1: don't put out you know, we don't pay big advances,
Speaker 1: but I'd really like to pick up this jan Akaman.
Speaker 1: He said, yann com in. You don't have to pay
Speaker 1: any advance, he said, he said, he just left us.
Speaker 1: He said, he's he's free, he's a free agent. Now
Speaker 1: you can have the record for nothing. He said, I said, really,
Speaker 1: where did he go? He said he went back to
Speaker 1: his old man Focus. So I said Focus. I said, um, well,
Speaker 1: where were they? He said, oh, they got a job playing,
Speaker 1: uh for the Dutch production of Have I got on
Speaker 1: a plane, I met them, I signed them, and that
Speaker 1: was that was really that's what put us. When you
Speaker 1: were the main label, you didn't license the record from
Speaker 1: anybody else. I licensed it but for the whole world
Speaker 1: excluding Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg. That the guy that had
Speaker 1: them under contract mostly as a publisher but also records
Speaker 1: was a guy named Hubert to Hagen who in Radio
Speaker 1: tell A Luxembourg Um and the publishing side of it,
Speaker 1: which was Radio Luxembourg which is a big you know
Speaker 1: radio station, and you know, so um I paid I
Speaker 1: don't even want to I don't even want to say
Speaker 1: the amount. Okay, but the record, that record, did that
Speaker 1: record have hocus focus on it? No, it was the
Speaker 1: next record that had I'll tell you. I'll tell you
Speaker 1: the story of that too. So the way we get
Speaker 1: the first record? Can you do anything with the first record?
Speaker 1: It did a little, It did a little, you know,
Speaker 1: it did you know moderately, well maybe thirty forty thousand
Speaker 1: it did. Um Telling those what was motivating people to
Speaker 1: buy I don't I don't know. I think because they
Speaker 1: will get they were getting some information, you know, and
Speaker 1: hearing it from the English were playing it and uh,
Speaker 1: so I think that's how it happened. Maybe last I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't remember. It was nothing spectacular, but you know
Speaker 1: about uh about a year before this, or when I
Speaker 1: very first signed Focus, Uh, you know, I had another
Speaker 1: label which I still owned, called Blue Horizon Records. At
Speaker 1: one point I saw around half of it, but then
Speaker 1: they just seen as a jazz label, was a blues label.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, I think they were. Mike Ernan one of
Speaker 1: the greatest producers ever. He produced the first David Bowie record,
Speaker 1: you know, under his real real name, you know, and um,
Speaker 1: he was a producer at Decca, and they let him
Speaker 1: have his own label, Blue Horizon, and you know, he
Speaker 1: put Fleetwood Mac together and they had the early Fleetwood
Speaker 1: Mac records which which are on still on Blue Horizon
Speaker 1: and Chicken Shack, which is where Christine Perfect came from,
Speaker 1: now Christine McVie. And so he says to me, look,
Speaker 1: this is we're in business. He said, Seymour, I wish
Speaker 1: you'd do me a big favor and come to the
Speaker 1: winds of Popping jazz festival with me. He says, it's
Speaker 1: not popping, it's not jazz, it's you know, rock stuff.
Speaker 1: And he said, I just, you know, come with me.
Speaker 1: I'm bringing my I'm bringing my engineer, Gus Studgeon, who
Speaker 1: later became Gus Dudgeon, Elton's producer. He was an engineer
Speaker 1: at Deck still the best Elton records. Yes, oh yes,
Speaker 1: Gus was great. Unfortunately he died in the car Creuse
Speaker 1: driving home from Melton's house with his wife, who worked
Speaker 1: for Decca. I knew how to, you know, but very
Speaker 1: very sad, good, very good people. So I go there
Speaker 1: and you know, the music was all right, and then
Speaker 1: this band come on and they blew mama, you know,
Speaker 1: and they I loved them so much. I couldn't wait
Speaker 1: till they got finished because I looked them up and
Speaker 1: they were managed by, uh, you know the Chrystalist guys
Speaker 1: before the Chrystmas label, Uh you know Exist and Chris Right.
Speaker 1: And I said, this band, they're managed by Chris and
Speaker 1: Terry and you produced Savoy Brown and ten years after
Speaker 1: for them, they were managing them. I said, we ought
Speaker 1: to grab this record for the Blue Horizon. He said,
Speaker 1: oh see, Moore, I would never work with the flout Ist.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know. I didn't know what the flowerst meant,
Speaker 1: you know, we call him flut players, I mean. And
Speaker 1: I didn't want to show my ignorance, you know, so
Speaker 1: I thought it was who knew what the floutst was,
Speaker 1: you know? And so I turned to gust Duddon and
Speaker 1: he I said, Gus, you'll be the you'd be the
Speaker 1: engineer here, which he said, see more. And this really
Speaker 1: hurts nothing. Michael could say whatever hurt me because he's
Speaker 1: just to me, Seymour, You don't play an instrument, do you?
Speaker 1: I said, no, what what does that have to do
Speaker 1: with that I got to use? He said, if you
Speaker 1: played an instrument, you would have heard all the bad
Speaker 1: notes this band hit. He said, I couldn't wait till
Speaker 1: they finished, So I kept pushing him, pushing him to
Speaker 1: sign it, you know, and uh, you know, and and
Speaker 1: they didn't, you know, and you know who was so
Speaker 1: and uh, I even have a letter when Mike finally
Speaker 1: I gave up on him. I have a letter from
Speaker 1: Chris Terry and I've saved where he wrote me. He said, Seymour,
Speaker 1: we we couldn't get anybody to sign him, so we
Speaker 1: started the crystalist labor. And I wished him good luck
Speaker 1: and everything and all of that, and uh, and all
Speaker 1: of that. But now fast forward a year. I said, Tim, Mike,
Speaker 1: I said, Mike, I don't care if you like flautist
Speaker 1: or not. You're gonna produce this record. And it was
Speaker 1: one of the most successful records Mike ever produced. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm moving waves by focus and uh, you know Mike
Speaker 1: is happily retired and living in Spain and growing olives
Speaker 1: and things and okay, so how do you how it's
Speaker 1: all the story of hocus Pocus? Pardon tell us the
Speaker 1: story of hocus Pocus. Well, it was on the album,
Speaker 1: you know, and it was delivered to you you no, no, no, no, Mike, No.
Speaker 1: I think I heard it because I kept going back
Speaker 1: and forth. You know, I heard it when I was
Speaker 1: in England when they were making it, and I liked
Speaker 1: it very much. I said this, this, this is great.
Speaker 1: And there were a couple of other tracks on there
Speaker 1: that I must admit I like, you know very much too. So, um,
Speaker 1: this was a big breakthrough. Mike was great produce. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, and and patient he was so
Speaker 1: I mean, really to work with John Mayle, uh, no disrespect,
Speaker 1: you had to be very patient. But you know, Mike
Speaker 1: could produce anything. I mean, you know, and uh, but
Speaker 1: I knew there was something there and you know, and
Speaker 1: sure enough there was. Well how did you make that
Speaker 1: a hit? Well, um, that's another story if you want
Speaker 1: to hear it. I had a trouble getting it released.
Speaker 1: By this time, we had moved over to a Pollador
Speaker 1: for our distribution, and the the guy there was Jerry Shawmbaum,
Speaker 1: who was one of the greatest music guys in the world.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't say a bad worried about him.
Speaker 1: And he was putting out all these records we were making,
Speaker 1: and he kept sliding the focus record, you know, putting
Speaker 1: it back. I said, listen, this is the best record
Speaker 1: I got. You gotta stop this. It's already starting to
Speaker 1: happen in England and he should seem more I'm not
Speaker 1: putting the record out. He said, you know, Uh, there's
Speaker 1: this there's these people at paler Or. There's this guy
Speaker 1: Freddie High and he keeps pressing me to put out
Speaker 1: all of his Dutch records, he said. And I said,
Speaker 1: he's got some great records too, you know, I said
Speaker 1: you should put them out also. He should seem what
Speaker 1: do you want to release? I said, yes, and he
Speaker 1: gave me a release, and I went to Tony Martel
Speaker 1: and who was running Paramount, and and you know the
Speaker 1: he got really behind the record, great man, and uh
Speaker 1: you know the record took off, you know, and very
Speaker 1: very fortunate. Okay, so that's your first big success. You
Speaker 1: make a lot? Okay, what's that seventy three? Oh no, no,
Speaker 1: I think, oh god. Right, you're listening to my conversation
Speaker 1: with the legendary record executive Seymour Stunt. I hope you're
Speaker 1: enjoying this episode of the Bob Left Sets Podcast. If
Speaker 1: you want to see videos, photos, and soundbites from Seymour
Speaker 1: and our other guests, visit at tune in on Twitter, Facebook,
Speaker 1: and Instagram. Now we're my conversation with Seymour Stein on
Speaker 1: the Bob Left Sets Podcast. Okay, so now this new
Speaker 1: scene starts to version in New York City, the New
Speaker 1: Waves scene. So how do you get How does that
Speaker 1: get your attention? How did it not get my attention?
Speaker 1: I mean I live in New York. Okay, let's stop
Speaker 1: for a second. You live through all these generations of music. Yes,
Speaker 1: the cliche is that people like the music that they
Speaker 1: grew up within their taste. Stop now, I'm at famously
Speaker 1: said at some point, you won't get it anymore in
Speaker 1: this piece, right, it's this particular point in time. Do
Speaker 1: you continue to like this music or you see it
Speaker 1: as a business opportunity. Oh? No, if I didn't like something,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't sign it. I don't, you know. Um. The
Speaker 1: thing is, I was overdroid. New York when I was
Speaker 1: a kid was ground zero. Then you have Motown Detroit,
Speaker 1: Then you have um, you know, l A becoming really
Speaker 1: really hot, um, Memphis, you know, and and all these
Speaker 1: other places, and then the final blow the Beatles and
Speaker 1: all the English stuff. So New York was quite diminished
Speaker 1: by all of that. No, I was very very pleased
Speaker 1: to see New York being back, you know, in the groove. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's just jump all the way forward today in terms
Speaker 1: of today's hit music, chart music. Since you just said
Speaker 1: at some point you don't get it? Do you get
Speaker 1: today's hit music? Uh? To be honest, not as much.
Speaker 1: You know, I you know, I can. I can still
Speaker 1: hear a great band, you know. Um, but you know
Speaker 1: I feel that, you know, I don't think I'm quite
Speaker 1: you know, as as as up on things as as
Speaker 1: I was back then. To be perfectly honest. But if
Speaker 1: I played you the Top fifty, which were great degree
Speaker 1: as hip hop influenced? Or is hip hop Drake and
Speaker 1: Kanye Uh, I like some of it very much, but
Speaker 1: it's you know, and I was. I was the first
Speaker 1: person at one Is to get into rap music. I
Speaker 1: signed the Ice T and uh that's an interesting story too.
Speaker 1: But um, but I'm not that up on it, you know,
Speaker 1: And I think that you know, there are so many
Speaker 1: other labels that are so good at it that you know,
Speaker 1: why would they come to me? Okay, let's go also
Speaker 1: to the other side of the fence. If you are
Speaker 1: an act, what are you looking for when you do
Speaker 1: sign an act? This is where your whole career as
Speaker 1: opposed to songs. Yes, so to what degree is it
Speaker 1: important to person to be able to perform them live? Uh?
Speaker 1: Eventually it's very important. I mean, but some of these bands.
Speaker 1: Look the bands that I have signed over the years. Know,
Speaker 1: I very seldom signed a band that was established. Yes,
Speaker 1: I made I brought lou Reid back, you know, I
Speaker 1: made records with Jerry Lee Lewis and things like that.
Speaker 1: But um, you know, but the thing is that most
Speaker 1: of my artists, you know, all the overwhelming you know
Speaker 1: with brand new bands and brand new artists and um
Speaker 1: you know uh so, I mean it's what I listened
Speaker 1: to with the songs. Um, musicianship can always improve. I
Speaker 1: mean in some cases the musicianship at the beginning was excellent,
Speaker 1: like with the Smiths Wow. Uh. Like with the Pretenders
Speaker 1: wow you know uh with the Peesh Mode it was
Speaker 1: I wouldn't go wow wow wow. But it was so
Speaker 1: much better than all the other English bands at that
Speaker 1: time that you know I had looked at. I mean,
Speaker 1: these these were you know that there were so much better.
Speaker 1: But the song is is the most. Do you think
Speaker 1: your ability to pick hits is based on an innate
Speaker 1: ability or experience? I never thought about it. I mean
Speaker 1: it's just I think I have a good year for songs.
Speaker 1: That's what my ear is good for, you know, of course.
Speaker 1: I mean when I heard Johnny Marr play I'm not
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not deaf. I mean I knew. I said,
Speaker 1: what an exceptional guitar player he is. You know, I
Speaker 1: went there to see them and that's when I signed them.
Speaker 1: I said, you know, you know, because Jeff Travis was
Speaker 1: talking about how great you know, the band was and uh,
Speaker 1: but you know, mostly about Marriscy, Marriscy, Marriscy. And I
Speaker 1: said to him, look, there are two superstars in this band,
Speaker 1: and we're lucky, very lucky. But you know, I can
Speaker 1: recognize it. But what I look for is the material,
Speaker 1: the songs. So in the since you've signed so many
Speaker 1: acts from Square one to sign them, have you had
Speaker 1: to compete with other labels? Very rarely? I mean, because
Speaker 1: I get in so early, you know, and uh, I
Speaker 1: couldn't compete. I never had the money, you know to compete,
Speaker 1: even even during most of my days at one is okay.
Speaker 1: So now this is a scene that's happening in New
Speaker 1: York famously at cb GBS. You're saying, how could you
Speaker 1: not know? But so everyone in the business knew that
Speaker 1: because at first the scene was ignored. Well, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: people had a bad impression of the ballery, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, there are bums there, uh, sleeping in
Speaker 1: the street. But they're sleeping in the street. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not a dangerous area. But people didn't like to
Speaker 1: go down to the barery. Now the houses there, you know,
Speaker 1: in the hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars, you know.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, you know, it didn't keep me away,
Speaker 1: and uh, it didn't keep Danny Fields away. It didn't
Speaker 1: you know, it didn't keep a lot of people away.
Speaker 1: But okay, so you see the remotes, you immediately say, okay,
Speaker 1: this is a band I want to sign. Oh well,
Speaker 1: I didn't see them at CBS. I was sick and
Speaker 1: I couldn't go. Linda went my wife with Danny Fields,
Speaker 1: and Fields working for you. No, no, Danny Fields never
Speaker 1: worked for me. But he became the manager with Linda
Speaker 1: of the Mounds. But Linda came back raving. I was
Speaker 1: still sick. It. I bundled up and you know, rented
Speaker 1: a rehearsal studio where they played you know, maybe eighteen
Speaker 1: songs and I say jokingly, eighteen songs in twenty two minutes.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't quite like that. But I was. I
Speaker 1: fell in love with them even, you know, And so
Speaker 1: you said, I did the deal right there. They were
Speaker 1: in the studio a few days later, and you know
Speaker 1: the genius was Tommy. I wouldn't. I think they all contributed,
Speaker 1: But whose vision was it? Because it was so different
Speaker 1: from what was going on? Well, um, I think the
Speaker 1: driving force was Johnny. Um. I think that Joey's voice
Speaker 1: was amazing. Um, Deedy was also a good songwriter too,
Speaker 1: you know. But Tommy was it was actually the original
Speaker 1: manager and part of the band. He he was the
Speaker 1: one mostly to do business with, although Johnny was very
Speaker 1: smart too. I mean, I'm not trying to say the
Speaker 1: other on swat but uh, but when it came to business,
Speaker 1: you know, it was Tommy and Johnny and these were
Speaker 1: very low sums involved. Were you paid them? And how
Speaker 1: much time it took to record the record? Yes, and
Speaker 1: the record comes out and people this is like springtime
Speaker 1: for Hitler. They don't know whether it's a joke that's
Speaker 1: in America. Yes. But when I brought them over to England,
Speaker 1: you know, um, it was instrumental in getting other bands
Speaker 1: to to go pro you know. So um but I
Speaker 1: mean that that's how important it was on the continent
Speaker 1: as well. In Brazil and and and Argentina. They did
Speaker 1: very very well. They were playing big, big clubs and
Speaker 1: big theaters in England and they had to come back
Speaker 1: to you know, playing these dingy little clubs. It it
Speaker 1: was heartbreaking for me and it must have been even
Speaker 1: worse for them. Well, yeah, I just remember I thought
Speaker 1: it was sort of a joke, and then I bought
Speaker 1: the third album, Rocket to Russia with Rockaway Beach. I said,
Speaker 1: this is genius. But but you see that when the
Speaker 1: sex Pistols and uh the you know, uh um what
Speaker 1: the Clash saw them, that's when they decided to go.
Speaker 1: So it's like the Velvet Underground. Everybody heard them. They
Speaker 1: didn't sell, but other people were influences. I don't know, great,
Speaker 1: you know, right, So it's ironic because they really never
Speaker 1: broke through until everybody was dead. It's it's very sad.
Speaker 1: But but walked down the street of a busy city
Speaker 1: you see more Ramos T shirts than anything else, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, and you know, so were you still involved
Speaker 1: with and they were when they worked with Phil Specter.
Speaker 1: Of course it was I put the whole thing together.
Speaker 1: So Geniu's idea, the result, Yes, the result was not.
Speaker 1: I think that was the end of the century, I believe. Well,
Speaker 1: the thing is that Johnny was very much against working
Speaker 1: with Phil Specter, and but Joey wanted it. It was
Speaker 1: a lifetime ambition for him, and I got it to
Speaker 1: work as best I could. You know and you know
Speaker 1: so um you know, and uh, just just to make
Speaker 1: sure I had a week before they came over, I
Speaker 1: had the Pailey brothers go in with with Phil just
Speaker 1: to make sure that Hill was you know, under control,
Speaker 1: and he made ut a couple of tracks with them,
Speaker 1: and you know, I I think that you didn't like
Speaker 1: that record. I think as I say, my favorite is
Speaker 1: the third and then the fourth. Road to Ruin is
Speaker 1: my second favorite. And it became something where I bought
Speaker 1: all those records. But this is a funny business. I
Speaker 1: mean business changed again now where if you don't have
Speaker 1: a hit by a certain point, it looks like you're
Speaker 1: never gonna have a hit. So one always looks to
Speaker 1: Phil spec Your one always listens to a Phil Spectra record,
Speaker 1: but to be the one he did with Leonard Cohen
Speaker 1: or the you know, the one he did the Ramons.
Speaker 1: But once again, it seemed at a commercial aspect, somewhat
Speaker 1: like a failed experiment, like this would be the thing
Speaker 1: to break them through, and it didn't break them through.
Speaker 1: So it's less about the record itself than the commercial potential.
Speaker 1: Well you can't play that on Phil Spectr, No, I can't.
Speaker 1: You can't blame it on the ramon. No, but I
Speaker 1: ask ask you do you think Phil was still still
Speaker 1: had his chops at that point? Um? Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I I think phils are you know, I really call
Speaker 1: people geniuses. I think Phil Specter is a genius. Um
Speaker 1: and you know it. I knew him very early on
Speaker 1: when he you know, I met him very very early
Speaker 1: on when he had a little tiny office in an
Speaker 1: apartment building. And uh, I remained pretty close with him.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry the way he's ended up. And but you know,
Speaker 1: Phil Specter, liebern Stola, you know that, you know, and
Speaker 1: some of the R and B producers that they're the
Speaker 1: greatest producers you know ever in my eyes, you know.
Speaker 1: So how do you sign the talking heads? Well, um,
Speaker 1: I come home from England, exhausted, Linda's managing them, and uh,
Speaker 1: I'm in the house five or ten minutes the phone rings,
Speaker 1: but Linda's managing the remons, talking the ramones, and I
Speaker 1: get a call from Johnny. So we got some new material.
Speaker 1: You know, we want you to hear it, you know.
Speaker 1: So I said, look, I said, you know, I just
Speaker 1: got home and uh it was a Sunday, I remember, clearly,
Speaker 1: I said, look, give me Monday to catch up and Tuesday,
Speaker 1: come in any time you want and not played. He said,
Speaker 1: oh no, we want you to hear it live, and
Speaker 1: we know you're not doing anything Wednesday, so we booked
Speaker 1: ourselves into CBGBs. I said, great, I'll come down and
Speaker 1: see you. So immediately I called to check to find
Speaker 1: out who was the opening act. It was the Shirts,
Speaker 1: and wow, that brings it back. Well, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to see them because I liked them, but not enough
Speaker 1: to sign them. Ultimately, I believe in Capital and the
Speaker 1: lead singer ended up being in the production of here,
Speaker 1: and that's the last I've heard. Well, that wasn't the
Speaker 1: reason I didn't, but Hilly was managing them, and I
Speaker 1: love Hilly and I didn't want to disappoint him by
Speaker 1: turning the Crystal who own CBGBs, and I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to yet have to turn them down again.
Speaker 1: So it was mid November. I get there early and
Speaker 1: very early. Lenny k is outside, great guy, and We're
Speaker 1: standing there waiting for the first band to go on,
Speaker 1: and I'm expecting the Shirts to go on, and I
Speaker 1: hear when my love stands next to you, all up,
Speaker 1: I said, and actually I'm not exaggerating. The music was
Speaker 1: so hypnotic. It was sucking me into the room and
Speaker 1: Lenny was following me, and I said, Lenny, this isn't
Speaker 1: the Shirts. What's going on here? He says, no, this
Speaker 1: is the Talking Heads Hill. He got the shirts a
Speaker 1: paying drop in Brooklyn, he said. And when I got
Speaker 1: in there, I was mesmerized just through it was just
Speaker 1: three piece. Then, oh god, it was. It took my
Speaker 1: breath away. It was so incredible, one of the greatest
Speaker 1: experiences of my life. When they were over, I tried,
Speaker 1: they had no crew or nothing. I tried to help
Speaker 1: Tina down, you know, with you know, and David comes
Speaker 1: over to me. He said, we know who you are,
Speaker 1: you know like and he hands me a card. He says,
Speaker 1: this is a loft if you want to come and
Speaker 1: see us some time tomorrow. And boy did I want
Speaker 1: to see them. And I went over there and I
Speaker 1: offered them a deal. And you know, they were busy
Speaker 1: with video, you know, and they were busy going back
Speaker 1: and forth to Providence, you know, where they had gone
Speaker 1: to school and other things. And I there were seven
Speaker 1: major labels at the time, and I was sure somebody
Speaker 1: would offer them something and they would just blow me
Speaker 1: out of the of contention. Eleven and a half months later,
Speaker 1: on November one, I signed them, And what what sleepless
Speaker 1: nights I had? I'm you know, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: know how Linda put up with me during that talk.
Speaker 1: You know, I was, you know, biting my nails and everything.
Speaker 1: I loved the Talking Heads so much, and uh, you
Speaker 1: know all of them, you know, I mean David that,
Speaker 1: you know, Chris and Tina, I mean Jerry, mean just
Speaker 1: who joined? But what a great band? Do you finally
Speaker 1: close them? After eleve and a half months, Oh, they
Speaker 1: called me, they said, we're ready to sign. So the
Speaker 1: first record comes out, Talking at seventy seven, gets a
Speaker 1: lot of press, scot Psycho Killer doesn't really hit. Then
Speaker 1: they change production teams. Can you tell us about that? Uh? God, well,
Speaker 1: they always had choice of their producers, you know, right,
Speaker 1: But if this was before you know, I don't believe
Speaker 1: it had a success as a producer before he did. There,
Speaker 1: David got to know you know, very well, and you
Speaker 1: know so um and did fit the budget, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it was a little more than
Speaker 1: a usual sigh record at that time. But I believed
Speaker 1: so much in them, and uh, you know, I let
Speaker 1: it rip, you know, and you can you tell us
Speaker 1: the story how they did take Me to the River,
Speaker 1: which really was the breakthrough track on that album. Well,
Speaker 1: I wasn't there when they did, okay, so that was
Speaker 1: their choice. Oh yes, And when you heard the record,
Speaker 1: you go, I loved I loved the song before, you know,
Speaker 1: and they told me they were going to do it,
Speaker 1: and I I thought it was a great song to do.
Speaker 1: But if they had picked something else, unless I thought
Speaker 1: it was, you know, really terrible, I might have said something. No,
Speaker 1: take Me to the River is a great song. And
Speaker 1: they did a great job. So there are any other
Speaker 1: bands that you tried to get from that? Erather? You
Speaker 1: couldn't sig him? Yeah? That was some Did they succeed that?
Speaker 1: What did they ultimately succeed with other people? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: one man, I really liked a lot at from that period.
Speaker 1: I just will talk about that period. I really like television.
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't think Tom Valane and I
Speaker 1: hit it off and you know that that well, but
Speaker 1: you know, uh, and you know he signed to Electra
Speaker 1: and you know, I was hoping it would be a
Speaker 1: big success. Karen Berg brought them in, who was a
Speaker 1: great a and all women and you know, so um,
Speaker 1: but it really didn't happen that it didn't. I I
Speaker 1: love television, you know. First albums, second album not as
Speaker 1: good as one track I like. But then the band
Speaker 1: broke up. Okay, meanwhile, you're flying to England and your
Speaker 1: signing acts. Yes, so what acts are you signing at
Speaker 1: this time? The Cure, the Cult, Depeche Mode, um, you know, um,
Speaker 1: the Smiths eventually, um, you know, lots lots and lots
Speaker 1: of games. So the bands that have UK deals and
Speaker 1: the American rights are up for ground. Yes in some cases.
Speaker 1: Now would that go when the money men? I was
Speaker 1: able to get them for the world and uh I um,
Speaker 1: but I had a little trouble signing them. But in
Speaker 1: the end I got Rob Dickens to start a label.
Speaker 1: This was Warner wouldn't give you any more money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but he said, look, your your your your your money.
Speaker 1: You're not do any more signing money for the next
Speaker 1: three or four months. You'll have to wait. I said, wait,
Speaker 1: they'll be gone. They could be gone tomorrow. They're that good.
Speaker 1: So I, you know, I went home. I was really sad.
Speaker 1: And the brightest star at Warner Brothers in those days
Speaker 1: was Rob Dickens, but he wasn't in the record side
Speaker 1: of things, but he had the best ear is he
Speaker 1: unbelieved bo I said, Rob, I want you to listen
Speaker 1: to this band I want to sign and he loved
Speaker 1: them as much as I did. I had some music
Speaker 1: of theirs. He said, I think you should sign him.
Speaker 1: I said, look, why don't we do it together. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you the truth, you know, I said, one is uh,
Speaker 1: I don't want to give me any money for a
Speaker 1: few months. I said, why don't we start a label.
Speaker 1: He said, oh, that would be fabulous, and he said,
Speaker 1: I'd love to do it with you. I said, I
Speaker 1: always thought you you know, you're a great publisher, but
Speaker 1: I think you'd be an even greater record man. Basically
Speaker 1: just looking for the money. Why don't you're really just looking? No,
Speaker 1: I was looking to look, you know. By this time,
Speaker 1: I was doing it pretty much all myself. And I
Speaker 1: mean I recognized Robert as being an extraordinary talent, incredible.
Speaker 1: His whole family. His brother is one of the top
Speaker 1: you know book engagents. His nephew managers Adele. His father
Speaker 1: was one of the founders of the New Musical Express.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a great musical family, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh and Rob's the star. So um. But so
Speaker 1: we did it, I said, Rob. I'm so happy, I said.
Speaker 1: And I was really tired, you know, because I was
Speaker 1: losing sleepover you know somebody. So and and we did,
Speaker 1: you know, we're going to do the deal. And I
Speaker 1: knew they would accept it. May probably love Rob, you know,
Speaker 1: because he's so good. And uh, so I said, Rob,
Speaker 1: I'll see you. He said, what do you mean see me?
Speaker 1: He said, we have to come up with a name
Speaker 1: for the label. I said, Rob, you know, I've got Sire,
Speaker 1: I've got Blue Horizon, I've got I've had a couple
Speaker 1: other little labels at the time, so nothing of a
Speaker 1: great note. But so I said, up, you'll pick it
Speaker 1: whatever you want. He said no, he said, there's a partnership.
Speaker 1: Will do it together. And we sat there and I
Speaker 1: was getting dizzier and dizzy, you know, and dizzy, and
Speaker 1: he was his favorite movie was A Clockwork Orange and uh.
Speaker 1: He had the poster there big and I'm started reading
Speaker 1: the poster and I see the word Carova, I said, Carova.
Speaker 1: He's I said, that's what we should call the label Corova.
Speaker 1: You know. He said, way did you get that from?
Speaker 1: I said, from your poster? So he said, great, you know,
Speaker 1: And that's that's how that all happened. We'll pause here
Speaker 1: for a brief moment and get right back to my
Speaker 1: conversation with Seymour Stunt. For those not in the know,
Speaker 1: I'm primarily a writer, and you can sign up from
Speaker 1: my newsletter at left sets dot com or read it
Speaker 1: on the dog if that's too much for you, in
Speaker 1: addition to following my commentary on music tech in the
Speaker 1: world at large. They'll be the first to find out
Speaker 1: when we've published a new episode of the podcast. Go
Speaker 1: to left sets dot com and sign him for the newsletter.
Speaker 1: I know you'll enjoy it. Now more with rock and
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Famer legendary music executive Seymour Star. Now,
Speaker 1: did you sign Depeche Mode with did they just can't
Speaker 1: get enough? Come on, sire? You came after that when
Speaker 1: the guy left the band and started I had. I
Speaker 1: had depeche Mode from the very I was at their
Speaker 1: very first gig. Uh. The thing is, I was a
Speaker 1: big fan of Daniel Miller, who I had put out
Speaker 1: two of his records that he was the artist, and
Speaker 1: I woke up one morning early, thank god, I woke
Speaker 1: up early, like six o'clock in the morning, and the
Speaker 1: anemy or melody maker it was Daniel Miller signs real
Speaker 1: band to Mute and Depeche Mode, you know, and then
Speaker 1: I read the horrible part that they're playing their first
Speaker 1: ever gig, you know, in Basildon. And it was that
Speaker 1: that day. So I called up that, you know, British Airways.
Speaker 1: I said, uh, you got room on you on your
Speaker 1: Concorde flight at eleven you know, the said yeah. I
Speaker 1: said how much is it? Eight thousand dollars? So, you know,
Speaker 1: I ran out to the airport. You know, by this
Speaker 1: time I already had an apartment. I don't think I
Speaker 1: even packed anything I was inside, but I had an
Speaker 1: apartment in London by then. And uh I had an
Speaker 1: assistant there who picked me up, Paul McNally, and we
Speaker 1: drove up to Basildon. I was what shape I was in.
Speaker 1: But they were great and unlike a lot of the
Speaker 1: other bands of that era, you know, they could really play,
Speaker 1: I mean, and uh so it was great songs, which
Speaker 1: some of the other bands had too. But you know,
Speaker 1: but with them. They had great musicianship, they were ready
Speaker 1: a great you know, lead singer. Then the latest you
Speaker 1: know that the band just continued to flourish, you know.
Speaker 1: And then I also had you know there the other band,
Speaker 1: this breakaway bands you know like Yeazoo and uh so
Speaker 1: um that was unsired too. Yes, yes, all all their
Speaker 1: musical I saw Alison and hung with her when she
Speaker 1: was playing in l A Last Fall still has the
Speaker 1: pipes putting. I saw Alison. Yeah she's great, Yeah, really fantastic. Okay,
Speaker 1: So that ultimately brings us to Madonna. So tell us
Speaker 1: that it's been told before, but we're here. Tell us
Speaker 1: the story of signing Madonna. Um Mark Cayman's was a
Speaker 1: very talented young man and I got to know him
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, uh, you know, I think he
Speaker 1: may have done a little work for us. I don't remember,
Speaker 1: but he said, look, Seymour, I want to produce one
Speaker 1: of your bands. I said, never. That will never happen
Speaker 1: unless you go to the band and they want you
Speaker 1: as a producer. They picked their producers. I don't pick them,
Speaker 1: I said, but I'll tell you what I'll do because
Speaker 1: I gotta you know, you got it. I'll give you
Speaker 1: eighteen thousand dollars, three thousand dollars each to make six records,
Speaker 1: you know, over the next year, and hopefully we'll find
Speaker 1: something one or two you know things. And you know Madonna.
Speaker 1: It was either the third or fourth. The other the
Speaker 1: others never brought me anything bad, but nothing good enough.
Speaker 1: He brought me Madonna. And this was what Lucky Star. No, no, God,
Speaker 1: now you made me forget everybody. Everybody. Everybody, no, no, everybody,
Speaker 1: not Lucky Star, no everybody. So he brought me everybody,
Speaker 1: just a demo. I was in the hospital. I was
Speaker 1: hooked up to all the I had a thing called
Speaker 1: sub acute endocarditis and the only cure for it then
Speaker 1: I hope it's not the same today. Was four weeks
Speaker 1: on antibiotics in the hospital. So h you know. So
Speaker 1: um I heard the record and I said, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I think she's really got it, you know. I said, look,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be in the hospital for another two and
Speaker 1: a half weeks. You should bring her here, and I'd
Speaker 1: like to get the deal done as soon as possible.
Speaker 1: So five o'clock he calls me up. We're coming tonight
Speaker 1: at eight o'clock, she wants to see you. So I said,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I hadn't shaved. I hadn't showered. God
Speaker 1: knows what I smelled like and everything. But I got
Speaker 1: somebody to cut my hair and shave me. I got
Speaker 1: them to unhooked me so I could take a shower.
Speaker 1: I got new bathrobe and everything and everything. When she
Speaker 1: walked in, I could tell she didn't care, you know,
Speaker 1: what I looked like or anything. She just wanted a shot.
Speaker 1: And I admired that so much, you know, and uh,
Speaker 1: I said, look, you know, I really do this. On
Speaker 1: one song, I said, look, I want to make a
Speaker 1: deal with you, and I want to make you deal
Speaker 1: you know that would give you what I think is
Speaker 1: quite a term to really break open. I said, why
Speaker 1: don't we do three firm twelve inch record singles? I said,
Speaker 1: and because that's how I imagined everybody, And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and then an option to pick up a long term
Speaker 1: contract for albums. She said, great, you know, and all that,
Speaker 1: and you know and and and all of that, and
Speaker 1: you know that that was it, you know, But I
Speaker 1: I saw something in her, a real, real determination, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I you know, I saw that in a
Speaker 1: lot of women. I mean Chrissy Hind. The first time
Speaker 1: I saw her, you know, I wanted to sign them
Speaker 1: right in the club. I signed them the next day.
Speaker 1: You know. Now with Chrissy Hind, did she have a
Speaker 1: deal in the rest of the world. No, I signed
Speaker 1: up for the world that pretended. So you're saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're talking about other women who you felt something with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she is. She is dynamic, you know. I mean not
Speaker 1: that the men weren't, but but she was incredible, you know.
Speaker 1: And you know, but you know so uh, I don't
Speaker 1: know where were we know. I'm just saying you were
Speaker 1: mentioning other women that you saw me. D well k D.
Speaker 1: Another story I had Katie Katie Lang. Yeah, so m
Speaker 1: somebody sent me a record U of hers, you know,
Speaker 1: because they knew I like country music. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a manager and what not. Her manager seem what, You're
Speaker 1: gonna love this record, and I did, and I loved
Speaker 1: it so much. I called her and she said, I'm
Speaker 1: playing this weekend, you know, and I said, well, I'll
Speaker 1: come up and see you. So I flew up to
Speaker 1: Albert uh and saw her perform. She took me to
Speaker 1: the rodeo and uh, you know, and uh, we had
Speaker 1: a great time with her and came back you know
Speaker 1: with the deal. She was unbelievable. She is unbelievable. I mean,
Speaker 1: she's just a great, great singer. So going back to MacDonald,
Speaker 1: the first record ultimately hits first album and you have Borderline,
Speaker 1: you have Lucky starting out comes time to do the
Speaker 1: second record? Yes, how he ends on? Are you at
Speaker 1: that point? Well, I let her pick the producer, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean by that time, you know, I think Freddie
Speaker 1: was involved already. I think the man was involved. And
Speaker 1: uh you know, okay, well the second album you get
Speaker 1: it and they make the videos and it's like a
Speaker 1: virgin and material. Girl. Do you see this is going
Speaker 1: to be the biggest thing in the world. I did, Yes,
Speaker 1: at that point. To what degree do you have a
Speaker 1: continuing relationship with her? Does she pushed you aside? No, No,
Speaker 1: she didn't push me, as I had a long term
Speaker 1: contract with um. You know, but by that time, I mean,
Speaker 1: I left it in my hands. It was and to
Speaker 1: be honest, the better in my hands. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, she's one of a kind, you know. Okay,
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little business here. Traditionally in that era,
Speaker 1: if you had a hit record or two, you'd go
Speaker 1: back to the label and we negotiate your deal. Did
Speaker 1: she do that? Um? Yeah, she did, you know. And
Speaker 1: I I had introduced that to my lawyer, Alan Goverman,
Speaker 1: and he, you know, did a hell of a good job,
Speaker 1: you know, getting her a new deal. Well to give
Speaker 1: her more usually get to give or give to get.
Speaker 1: So what did you get returned for a higher royalty ray? Uh? Nothing? Okay,
Speaker 1: So well I think no, I didn't say nothing. I
Speaker 1: think we've got additional album. Yeah, that's what I mean usually. Okay.
Speaker 1: So your success to what degree? Because we've only covered
Speaker 1: it tangentially, but you were notorious for travel and going
Speaker 1: to all these locations absolutely, and to what part of
Speaker 1: your success you believe is? What degree do you attribute
Speaker 1: your success to that? Oh? Great deal? I mean you
Speaker 1: know I would go down to Australia. I signed bands
Speaker 1: there and I signed you know, right now, what I'm
Speaker 1: concentrating on, because I feel it coming very strong is
Speaker 1: India and China. And I'll be in India in August.
Speaker 1: Um and I go I got into her about it
Speaker 1: every year. Um, you know, China is really coming up.
Speaker 1: Uh there are these people there that are the biggest
Speaker 1: promoters in India, Modern Sky, and I helped put them
Speaker 1: together with Liverpool Sound City, which is now with their
Speaker 1: you know infusion into the Liverpool is probably the biggest
Speaker 1: English um you know, uh venue for new talent. I
Speaker 1: was just you know there a few weeks ago, about
Speaker 1: a month and Africo and um, you know, so, I
Speaker 1: mean I haven't been to Indonesia yet, but there's a
Speaker 1: lot of good music coming from there, the Philippines and
Speaker 1: look at all the boy bands coming out of Korea.
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, it's gonna be global. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: really really global. Okay. So there's been a lot of
Speaker 1: changes in the business since you start it. First of all,
Speaker 1: all the majors were bought by giant corporations. There was
Speaker 1: branch distribution, there was the Beatles, there was MTV, the Internet.
Speaker 1: What do you think about the state of the business
Speaker 1: today compared to how it was previously, Well, the business
Speaker 1: always changes. I mean even before that, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, record companies felt that when radio came in,
Speaker 1: it would be the end of the record business. People
Speaker 1: could listen to the records on the radio for nothing,
Speaker 1: and it wound up helping. Um, you know, so how
Speaker 1: wrong were they then? I wasn't even born. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know a lot lots of things. There
Speaker 1: will always be a music business, how it's going to
Speaker 1: change and everything. Look, there was actually a music business
Speaker 1: four hundred years ago, but it was only for the
Speaker 1: very very rich and royalty and the rocks as we
Speaker 1: Bach and Beethoven, Tarkovsky, Uh, you know, and and and
Speaker 1: and nothing. America didn't exist, very little going on in
Speaker 1: the UK. It was basically you know St. Petersburg and
Speaker 1: Vienna and uh you know, Berlin and places like that.
Speaker 1: You know, and you know they will always be a
Speaker 1: music business. And we can't live with that. I can't
Speaker 1: imagine living without music. Did you play music? How frequently?
Speaker 1: Less now than before? You know, but um, but still
Speaker 1: quite a bit. And so one thing one knows by
Speaker 1: hanging out with you in regular life, you're constantly breaking out.
Speaker 1: It's a song. So what are your favorite songs? Her
Speaker 1: favorite records? Well, uh, my favorite song, you know is
Speaker 1: a song that really um you wouldn't believe it, but
Speaker 1: I'll tell you is La Massas Um I mean, believe
Speaker 1: it or not. First of all, it's from my favorite movie,
Speaker 1: uh you know, Humphrey Bogart, you know. But the thing
Speaker 1: is why I like it so much is because it
Speaker 1: was written two years after the start of the French Revolution,
Speaker 1: and it was a battle cry during the war. The
Speaker 1: Star Spangled Banner was written at the very end of
Speaker 1: the War of eighteen twelve, you know. And it's it's
Speaker 1: not much of a melody anyway. I mean, it's an
Speaker 1: old English beard drinking melody. Um. You know, God saved
Speaker 1: the Queen is all right for the queen, you know.
Speaker 1: But but La massa as Is is a song that
Speaker 1: you know, sends chills up and down my spine, I mean,
Speaker 1: and uh, I mean I I you know. I mean
Speaker 1: if if you want to know what my favorite music is,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's some of it is Sia music,
Speaker 1: but a lot of it people like Little Richard and
Speaker 1: Fats Domino and Hank Williams and uh you know, Carl
Speaker 1: Smith and Farren Young. I love that era of country
Speaker 1: and you know, rhythm and blues. It's the music that
Speaker 1: that I grew up and and they do up the
Speaker 1: you know, hots hots of Stone and uh you know
Speaker 1: by Otis Williams and the Charms and uh shaboom by
Speaker 1: the Chords, um jeeb had of Crows, stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, it never goes away, you know. And I
Speaker 1: you know, I love a lot of my own sire
Speaker 1: records too very much, so you know, and you know,
Speaker 1: but you know, I have to ask, because I know
Speaker 1: you're heavily involved. What's your take on the Rock and
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame? Um? Well, um, it was a
Speaker 1: lot better when I'm at hear it again and and
Speaker 1: Jerry Wexler and those people were involved than it is today.
Speaker 1: But you know, that's all I will say about it. Now. Well,
Speaker 1: I guess, and I'm still involved. My viewpoint was, you know,
Speaker 1: it's called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and
Speaker 1: on some level, I know this doesn't make business sense,
Speaker 1: but at some point they should have closed the doors.
Speaker 1: There are certainly people who are unjustly excluded, but now
Speaker 1: it seems to a degree they're inducting people just to
Speaker 1: induct people, and they're not of the stature of the
Speaker 1: people who came previously. Well, I don't know who you're
Speaker 1: referring to, but it might be because you're getting older
Speaker 1: and other people appreciate the artist set of being inducted
Speaker 1: a lot more. Um, I don't know. I mean I
Speaker 1: think there are people who have been omitted, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm very sad and upset about it. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: a category for um, you know, musicians, and they haven't
Speaker 1: inducted the greatest side man of all, Glenn Campbell because
Speaker 1: they don't think of him as a rock and roller.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so it's so fucking ridiculous. I mean
Speaker 1: I have to say that. I mean you can that that.
Speaker 1: I just don't understand it. But and there were, there are,
Speaker 1: there are other things. Who else, give your memory serves
Speaker 1: you is unjustly excluded. Oh god, I'd have to we'd
Speaker 1: have to do another broadcast because you know, the number
Speaker 1: of these there were, there were quite there are quite
Speaker 1: there are quite a few, I mean, you know, quite
Speaker 1: a few of the old But you probably wouldn't agree
Speaker 1: with me on these people. Quite a few of the
Speaker 1: old R and B groups I think, Uh, I'm not
Speaker 1: a're not in yet that I don't I don't remember
Speaker 1: exactly which ones, but quite a few of the early
Speaker 1: R and B groups that really broke ground, um, you know,
Speaker 1: in in bringing rhythm and blues into the mainstream of
Speaker 1: pop and rock and roll. I think they should have
Speaker 1: more country artists inducted, you know, um, but I don't
Speaker 1: think they realize. Um Elvis Presley, who of course was
Speaker 1: inducted the first year. But Elvis Presley's first six records
Speaker 1: only hit the country trots. They were on sun and
Speaker 1: you know and all that. You know, rock and roll
Speaker 1: was really country, rhythm and blues and blues to start with.
Speaker 1: And now look, I'm glad. I mean, music is a
Speaker 1: river and lots of new things flow into it and
Speaker 1: some of them get picked up as as as as
Speaker 1: as as you know, rock and roll and um, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that, but I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: got left behind. I'll tell you another person who should
Speaker 1: be inducted, uh, and isn't is Ivory Joel Hunter. Do
Speaker 1: do you ever hear of him? Ivory Jael Hunted to
Speaker 1: me was like the cross between, um, you know, rhythm
Speaker 1: and blues and country. He he was a rhythm and
Speaker 1: blues artist, but the songs he wrote, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: I almost lost my mind and things like that. Since
Speaker 1: I met you, baby, these were huge hits in the
Speaker 1: country field. I mean, the only record I can really
Speaker 1: listen to and enjoy by Pat boon is his version
Speaker 1: of I Almost Lost my Mind, where he almost cries
Speaker 1: at the edge of the song. I mean nothing against
Speaker 1: Pat Pool, you know, but anyway, I'm sorry, I get
Speaker 1: a little emotional. Iveraghan definitely belongs in the Rock and
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame, and it's a crime, you know,
Speaker 1: But you know, I have a lot less to say.
Speaker 1: I was. I was one of the founders. Um it
Speaker 1: was on it myself. Jerry wexle Um Alan Grubman got involved,
Speaker 1: not musically. I mean, if he was involved, Jerry Vale
Speaker 1: would be inducted. But the thing is that I note,
Speaker 1: you know, but uh, you know, it's just, you know,
Speaker 1: it's you know, I think that that they should. You
Speaker 1: know that there were a lot of the older guys
Speaker 1: that were on the the nominating committee that are no
Speaker 1: longer there, like Bob Merrilis and Joe McEwen, who are brilliant,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, it's just it's just a shame.
Speaker 1: But okay, and tangentile to that is rock dead. It
Speaker 1: all depends. I mean, let's let's use the paradigm. People
Speaker 1: would say jazz is that jazz had a peek in
Speaker 1: the thirties and forties. There's certainly jazz now, but it's
Speaker 1: very small percentage of the overall listening. So is the
Speaker 1: same thing going to happen to rock? Well, I hope not.
Speaker 1: But I think that they'll always be room for rock
Speaker 1: and roll. They'll always be room, you know, for jazz.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, first all, Nina Simone was inducted in
Speaker 1: the Rock and Roll Hall of Family as Yes, she's
Speaker 1: a jazz singer, you know, and you know, um, and
Speaker 1: I think she got you know, one of the largest
Speaker 1: percentage of votes. I I don't recall, but you know,
Speaker 1: you just um, I think I think there's gonna always
Speaker 1: be room for rock. I mean, it's a it's like
Speaker 1: a river, you know, and everything keeps flowing into it,
Speaker 1: and a lot of it stems from rock and roll.
Speaker 1: You know, rock and roll is still hanging in there.
Speaker 1: Best show you ever saw, uh, probably the Alan Freed
Speaker 1: shows that I would go to as a kid in
Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Paramount or the Brooklyn Fox. Um. They had like,
Speaker 1: you know, more than a dozen artists. You had Chuck Berry,
Speaker 1: Frankie Lyman and the teenager Laverne Baker, all those great,
Speaker 1: great artists. Jackie Wilson, Um, you know, I would, uh,
Speaker 1: I would pack a sandwich and sit through all three shows,
Speaker 1: you know, and you had it. There was movies in between,
Speaker 1: Alan Freed movies which were not very good. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think that to me, Alan Freed was very, very
Speaker 1: very important in rock and roll. And you know, he
Speaker 1: sadly is not that remembered. He's in the Rock and
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame though, But you know, but uh,
Speaker 1: you know, so we've only scratched the surface of your
Speaker 1: career and your insights. But before I let you go
Speaker 1: anything else that you need to say, no, I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm very honored that you you know, you chose me
Speaker 1: for a podcast, and you're a legend. I mean especially
Speaker 1: we're having this conversation of one of the a lot
Speaker 1: of people who have been successful just been business people,
Speaker 1: especially in the latter decades, as opposed to music fans.
Speaker 1: There would be in another business working for music. But
Speaker 1: you're passionate about music and had a sense of history
Speaker 1: that you know is being lost or unknown by future generations.
Speaker 1: You're a real thumb of knowledge. I think there are
Speaker 1: other people like me coming up, I would hope, So
Speaker 1: I don't you know. I, um, you know, I would
Speaker 1: hope there'll be people to replace me, and uh, I
Speaker 1: think there will be. I'm optimistic about that. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure there'll be somebody the champion ivery Joe Hunter,
Speaker 1: but we both know. You drop a needle on a record,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter whatever if it's great, you hear it. Yeah, Look,
Speaker 1: I mean there was there was great music before my time,
Speaker 1: great music in the twenties. You had all those great
Speaker 1: songwriters back in the twenties, you know. I mean, look
Speaker 1: when I'm in England sometimes I go see Gilbert and
Speaker 1: Sullivan shows. You know, I mean what melodies we say, Elee,
Speaker 1: Ocean Blue, you know, incredible? You know. Um, I like
Speaker 1: some of the classics. I'm not I'm I wish I
Speaker 1: knew I knew them better, but but I I certainly
Speaker 1: you know, um, I mean musicals today even, I mean
Speaker 1: thankfully that some of them are being very successful now.
Speaker 1: But you know, there's there's still nothing that to compete
Speaker 1: with Oklahoma or on My Fair Lady and things like
Speaker 1: that in my book. But maybe that's because I'm getting
Speaker 1: I grew up on that hour being younger than you.
Speaker 1: There the show too is being played in the house incessantly.
Speaker 1: That was the first music that huldn't be well. Your
Speaker 1: parents had good he is They were just touch My
Speaker 1: parents met, my father picked my mother up hitchhiking on
Speaker 1: the way home from Tanglewood. Oh the music connection and
Speaker 1: my parents could never say not to hitchhike. And on
Speaker 1: that note, it's been wonderful. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being a podcast. Thank you. Until next time, it's Bob
Speaker 1: left Sets. Here was seymour Stein on my podcast. Wow,
Speaker 1: it was truly amazing to spend time with seymour Stein.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Bob
Speaker 1: left Sets podcast, produced by tune In. As always, I'm
Speaker 1: fascinating and interested in your feedback. You can email me
Speaker 1: at Bob at left stats dot com. Until next time,
Speaker 1: I'm Bob left Sets me reas don't know exactly