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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast, recorded

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Speaker 1: live here high in the Hollywood Hills. My guest today

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Speaker 1: is truly a legend, seymour Stein. An amazing thing is

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Speaker 1: coming into the house of his daughter is all the photographs.

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Speaker 1: If you are a fan of rock history, he's got

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Speaker 1: a photo collage of the Stones so young. For a

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Speaker 1: second you're not sure it's them, including another photo with

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Speaker 1: the Ramons and David Bowie and the Talking Heads. It's

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Speaker 1: really just incredible now having read your book, not that

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Speaker 1: we need to advertise your book, but people should read

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Speaker 1: your book. Sirens Song. You talk about Thanksgiving where Elton

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Speaker 1: John is gonna play Madison Square Garden and John Lennon

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Speaker 1: has scenes with him that night. How does everybody end

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Speaker 1: up in your apartment? Well, Elton was staying with me.

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Speaker 1: I mean Elton got for a period of time, got

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Speaker 1: disgusted with hotels because people were always you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: attacking him. I don't mean in a bad way, but

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't leave him alone. Um. I go way back

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Speaker 1: with Elton and and and my my wife really went

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Speaker 1: out of her way always to accommodate him and everything.

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Speaker 1: And we had a big apartment right on Central Park West,

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Speaker 1: and he stayed there several times. Um, and he actually

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Speaker 1: wrote some of his songs in that apartment. Yeah whatever, Oh,

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Speaker 1: let me think, Um, I think maybe I'll think of

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Speaker 1: it later. But and what I do remember is that

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Speaker 1: my older daughter, who was about two years old then

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Speaker 1: she heard the song, came pounding away at it so

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Speaker 1: much that she uh wound up, you know, singing it

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Speaker 1: at such a young age. It was. It was incredible.

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Speaker 1: But he stayed there many times. And he was staying

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Speaker 1: there over Thanksgiving and he said, look, the boys, you

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Speaker 1: know the band so the English you know, Richard Griffith's

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Speaker 1: manager of One Direction, many other things. What he says

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Speaker 1: In England they refer to the band as the Boys. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well he said, he said, the boys are very nervous

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Speaker 1: about working with John Lennon. Tonight. He said, do you

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Speaker 1: think we could come? They could come over to the

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Speaker 1: house and uh, you know, just maybe have a Thanksgiving dinner.

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Speaker 1: And my wife's father was a Kosh caterer and uh

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Speaker 1: he made the most fantastic, you know, turkey dinner for everybody.

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Speaker 1: They watched the parade, they calmed down and you know

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Speaker 1: then um Elton and I walked over to the Dakota,

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Speaker 1: which was three blocks away on Central Park West, and

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Speaker 1: John was living at made Panglin and then uh he

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Speaker 1: came back to the house, and uh, you know it

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Speaker 1: was it was a great thrill. I mean I had

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Speaker 1: met him before. But okay, you meet John John Lennon,

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Speaker 1: Are you nervous around John Lennon? No? So what I

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Speaker 1: mean by that is you can act normally, but are

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Speaker 1: you somewhat star struck? This is this is the pinnacle

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Speaker 1: of rock stardom. Well, I wouldn't be starved. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: they were stars, they were great, you know I I

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Speaker 1: I was more star struck when I met Fats Domino.

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Speaker 1: If you want to know the truth, when did you

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Speaker 1: meet Fats? Uh? Several times in New Orleans? And uh,

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Speaker 1: I took him to dinner, a lunch, a couple of

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Speaker 1: times at the Commander's Palace and things like that. Meeting

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Speaker 1: little Richard, I mean, you know, little recent You're you're

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Speaker 1: about at least ten years younger than day. So, um,

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Speaker 1: you know you would you would relate more to the

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Speaker 1: Beatles and the Rolling Stones and stars. I spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of time with the Rolling Stones. In fact, I

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Speaker 1: was with them the night of the that first big

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Speaker 1: blackout in New York with Andrew Oldham was still a

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Speaker 1: very very dear friend. Did you ever interview him? He yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did. Oh he's a good friend. I went to

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Speaker 1: fascinating Oh yeah, he's his wife is great, two great people.

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Speaker 1: So um, I was with them the night of the

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Speaker 1: We didn't know it was going to be a blackout,

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Speaker 1: but it was. And uh, yes, exactly, and it was

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Speaker 1: their first I think it was their first time over.

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Speaker 1: So um. And uh, you know, um, Frankly I was

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Speaker 1: more a rolling Stone guy than uh. That's how he's

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Speaker 1: had the battle on w ABC every Saturday night. But

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Speaker 1: but but you know, I think it's the people that

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Speaker 1: your star struck with when you're very young. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I I wasn't all that I wasn't old, but I

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Speaker 1: wasn't all that that young. To me. It was the

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Speaker 1: rhythm and blues artists, and you know Hank Williams, who

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Speaker 1: of course I never got to me. He was long

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Speaker 1: gone before that. But those are those are the people

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Speaker 1: studying with your point that I'm a decade younger than you.

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Speaker 1: It seemed to me that the Beatles were really a

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Speaker 1: transformation explosion. With your perspective, do you just see them

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Speaker 1: as another band in the continuum or do you see

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Speaker 1: that as a turning point. Of course, there are many

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Speaker 1: turning points. I mean, and they were. They were a

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Speaker 1: big turning point. Okay, So let's go back to me.

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Speaker 1: You're from Brooklyn, absolutely, Benjamin, and your father does what

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Speaker 1: for a living? He works in the garment center. He

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Speaker 1: was in charge of the show room, you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: the buyers would come up and uh look over the

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Speaker 1: the you know, the items and decide what to order

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Speaker 1: and how many and all of that. And so he

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Speaker 1: would just show things, he would sell them to No. No,

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Speaker 1: he I don't think he I don't think he sold.

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Speaker 1: But no, he just he worked there. He was it

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Speaker 1: was not okay, and he was not his company. And

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Speaker 1: he was born where in the United States, on the

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Speaker 1: lower reast side. He grew up on a street called

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Speaker 1: Sheriff Street. And his parents were from the Old Country,

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Speaker 1: as we said, Yes, and my mother's parents were from

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Speaker 1: the Old Country to um you know, and you know, okay,

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Speaker 1: so they were first generations Americans. You're growing up. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It seems like if you when read your book, that

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Speaker 1: you're the prince. You're like the you know, the the

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Speaker 1: star of the family. Hands off, you gotta treat you right.

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Speaker 1: I see more sisters in the room, and she's a

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Speaker 1: little older and she's not a yes. Well you know, um,

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Speaker 1: I my parents were quite strict, but they also, um

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Speaker 1: you know, I think at a certain point they realized

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Speaker 1: that was different, and uh they kind of let me

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Speaker 1: have my way. I mean I think that's what. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So how would you characterize this difference. Well, look, I

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Speaker 1: was born with a hole in my heart, and so

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Speaker 1: I didn't play sports. Um, and I found other ways

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Speaker 1: to you know, occupy my you know, my time. I

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Speaker 1: collected stamps, uh, actually collected bottle caps and all different

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Speaker 1: kinds of things. But um, you know, but when I

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Speaker 1: first heard music, and it's thanks to my sister because

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Speaker 1: we had a two bedrooms small apartment, you know, and

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Speaker 1: uh we shared a bedroom, which I'm sure was not

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Speaker 1: easy for her. And uh but that's the first music

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Speaker 1: I really heard was on her radio. Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: in the fifties, no going back before that. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: this is before the era of transistor radios. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: these were no way. Yes, So there's a big console

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Speaker 1: radio it's not a big one, but you know, I

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Speaker 1: would say, Okay, he's demonstrating something about you know, ten

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Speaker 1: by five and so and so. What music were you

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Speaker 1: hearing on the radio? Well? Uh, pop music for the

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Speaker 1: most part. Uh. And every Saturday I would rush home

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Speaker 1: from the synagogue to listen to Martin Block in the

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Speaker 1: crystal studio of the Make Believe Ballroom. It's make Believe

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Speaker 1: Ballroom time, you know. And he would play the top

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Speaker 1: pop hits and uh, you know I I would write

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Speaker 1: them down. I mean, thank god my father didn't walk

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Speaker 1: in the room with shabbis, but you know, and keep

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Speaker 1: track of of of all of what was going on.

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Speaker 1: And um, was this a solo pursuit? Were your parents

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Speaker 1: playing records or in My parents didn't play that. Annie did.

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Speaker 1: My sister did, but we had a phonograph and uh,

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Speaker 1: she had records and uh, I mean and of course

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Speaker 1: later on I started buying records. This is but since

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Speaker 1: you're such a passionate fan, do you remember the first

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Speaker 1: record you bought? I think it might have been Uh,

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Speaker 1: I can't say for sure. It might have been Shaboom

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Speaker 1: by the Chords, you know, Um that I've got fifty

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Speaker 1: four Um, and um, maybe I think earlier, I mean

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Speaker 1: even even than that. Um, but I do remember, you know,

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Speaker 1: I remember, you know, running to a record store and

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Speaker 1: I wasn't supposed to run when I was walked. This

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Speaker 1: is my later This is nineteen fifties six. Um. I

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Speaker 1: was walking down the street and uh dah road where

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Speaker 1: I lived, and uh, I heard this song coming out

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Speaker 1: of the wind window and you know, it sounded like

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Speaker 1: Elvis Presley, Don't be cruel, you know, and I quoted

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Speaker 1: it to the girl who lived up there. You know,

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Speaker 1: her name was a Uh. You remember there was the

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Speaker 1: first house, uh, after the six family houses. I said,

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Speaker 1: what is that? What is it? Says that's the new

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Speaker 1: Elvis Presley record. I said, no, it's not. The new

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Speaker 1: record is hound Dog? And he said no, this is

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Speaker 1: the other side. And I had money in my pocket.

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Speaker 1: The record store was about nine blocks away. It was

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Speaker 1: actually a TV repair shop and they stuff sold some

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Speaker 1: records in their drags TV and uh, I ran there

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Speaker 1: and I got the last copy. Pretty astounding. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that was ahm, It's definition of a hit. You're lying

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Speaker 1: in bed listening to the radio at midnight and you

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Speaker 1: gotta get up, take off your pajamas and run to

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Speaker 1: the all night record store just to buy that record. No,

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Speaker 1: what's at midnight? I know, but you're living? I mean

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Speaker 1: that was his you know aphorism. Yea. So at what

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Speaker 1: point in your listening career do you say to yourself,

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Speaker 1: I think this is my passion, this is what I

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Speaker 1: want to do for a living, if at all? Well, uh,

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Speaker 1: I think it happened quite by accident. Um. I I

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Speaker 1: had the books, you know, starting with about nine fifty

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Speaker 1: that I kept, and then I wanted to go backwards.

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Speaker 1: So I went up to Billboard and uh, a little

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Speaker 1: bit slower. You just you find Billboard? How from? You

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Speaker 1: look it up in the phone book? No, I Billboard.

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Speaker 1: Martin Block was always talking about bill Board, he was

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Speaker 1: that was where he was playing the music from. So

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Speaker 1: I looked it up. They were in the Palace Theater

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Speaker 1: building and I went up there a seventh floor and

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Speaker 1: I said, look, is there any way I can get

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Speaker 1: access to the old charts there? So um, he said, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll ask the chart at it to come out, you know.

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Speaker 1: And that was tom Noon in a fabulous person. I

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Speaker 1: knew Tommy. I never realized he went back that far

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Speaker 1: reading your book it kind of started me. But and

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Speaker 1: he made a space for me, gave me a desk,

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Speaker 1: and he kept bringing out the bound volumes. There was

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Speaker 1: you know, I had to write it all down. There

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Speaker 1: was no way of So your goal in doing this

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Speaker 1: was what going you know, going back in time, you know,

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Speaker 1: so that I'd know more about the past. But what

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Speaker 1: if you could write them down, but you couldn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: hear them. It's not like but but you know, no,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't necessarily hear them. But some of those some

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Speaker 1: of the songs were familiar to me by then, you know.

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Speaker 1: And uh, but the main thing that what happened was

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Speaker 1: it brought me into the heart of the music district.

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Speaker 1: All the indies were very much around that area. Three

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Speaker 1: of the majors were close by. So for those who

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Speaker 1: were not around then, the legend is the Brill Building. Yes,

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Speaker 1: close by, close by, but the Brill Building was more

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Speaker 1: for publishers. But there were a few record companies in there.

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Speaker 1: It's a misnoma. But sixteen fifty was all a lot

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Speaker 1: of little record companies and yeah, and uh yeah, sixteen

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Speaker 1: fifty Broadway and then I mean King Records had a

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Speaker 1: place on fifty four Street, and you know, high Wise

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Speaker 1: with old Town Records and the old old you know,

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Speaker 1: the smaller labels where their Jubilee was a great little

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Speaker 1: And I realized, you know what am I gone ackwards for?

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Speaker 1: I should be going forward? And Billboard Paul Ackerman was

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Speaker 1: so nice to meet. Paul Ackman was the editor music

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Speaker 1: editor for forty years. And you also in your books

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Speaker 1: say that he was a mention an educated guy. Oh,

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Speaker 1: he was very much an educated guy. But he loved music,

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Speaker 1: and you know, he's he was the first journalist to

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Speaker 1: be inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 1: There are only two jan when as the other and

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Speaker 1: you know, but Paul, Paul was very nice to me.

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Speaker 1: And he used to say, look, uh, somebody specialist coming

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Speaker 1: to our review session tonight and now a Billboard review

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Speaker 1: back then before you go there. So the first day

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Speaker 1: you go and you meet Tommy noon in and usual desk.

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Speaker 1: How frequently are you going to Billboard? If this as

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Speaker 1: as frequently as he could that twice a week, you know,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, and uh, you know, and one

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Speaker 1: time or twice he said, you know, if you're not

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Speaker 1: doing anything over the weekend, I can get you access

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Speaker 1: to it so you can spend the whole day here.

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Speaker 1: And uh I did that as well. This was after

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Speaker 1: I got to know him. I whether I know where

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Speaker 1: the bound volumes were, I would pick them out myself,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, uh, you know, Billboard goes back

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Speaker 1: to the eighteen hundreds. I mean, but they didn't have Jog.

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Speaker 1: I didn't go back that fall. But you know, but

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Speaker 1: a Billboard review, a favorable review, a spotlight, could mean

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Speaker 1: as many as seventy five thousand records being sold by

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Speaker 1: a new artist, you know. I mean if it was

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Speaker 1: not Cole or Sinatra or Patty Page or you know,

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Speaker 1: somebody like that, Um, you know they would but they

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Speaker 1: know what to buy. But if there was a new

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Speaker 1: record by a new artist, uh, they looked at a

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Speaker 1: Billboard review. And the you know, the charts was so

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Speaker 1: slow in those days that you know, the droukebox operators

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Speaker 1: would buy upwards of seventy five thousand records based on

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Speaker 1: a Billboard a really strong Billboard review. And that's why

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Speaker 1: all the indies went up there, you know, and prayed

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Speaker 1: they could get, you know, a review. And that's how

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Speaker 1: I met, said Nathan, that's how I met Lennon Chess. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Uh and many many other of the are you telling

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Speaker 1: a story? And I was interrupting you and you said, uh,

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Speaker 1: either Tommy or Paul invited you to review meeting. Oh

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Speaker 1: he not to review. No, they invited me to attend

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Speaker 1: and give comments, you know as well. And that's where

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Speaker 1: and the uh that was done on a Wednesday night.

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Speaker 1: Uh and uh. Billboard had do bills at hotels because

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Speaker 1: they put in free advertising and got rooms and so

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Speaker 1: I actually, you know, I would go to school Thursday

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Speaker 1: morning from New York. You know, I'm take the West

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Speaker 1: End to Lafayette, the West End line, so um, it

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Speaker 1: was fabulous. And my parents, you know, by that time,

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Speaker 1: you know, they either they washed their hands with me

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Speaker 1: or that you know, they saw that there was no

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Speaker 1: minimum college for you. Well, no, they they they wanted

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Speaker 1: me to go to college. And I didn't give up

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Speaker 1: on college until the very very end. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: mean right after I graduated high school. I even investigated

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Speaker 1: going to school for journalism, and then Billboard offered me

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Speaker 1: a full time job and I said, look, I can

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Speaker 1: learn more here, you know, And I became Tom's assistant

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Speaker 1: with the charts and Paul, let me do a few

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Speaker 1: reviews of shows and uh, you know, but you must

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Speaker 1: have been thrilled. Thrilled us, Oh, thrilled, isn't the word beyond? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So then ultimately a turning point your story as you

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Speaker 1: meet Sid Nathan. Yes, I met him at one of

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Speaker 1: those billboard review sessions. Okay. So they would let record

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Speaker 1: owners come in and picture the records. Yes, of course,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I mean sometimes they were influenced by that.

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Speaker 1: I think, I don't know. I think in the end

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Speaker 1: it was really the record and I mean I think

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Speaker 1: most of them, you know, uh, you know, brought really

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Speaker 1: what they really really believed and because they didn't want to,

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Speaker 1: uh you know, waste billboards time. So how do you

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Speaker 1: ultimately established relationship with Sid? Well, he invited everyone out

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Speaker 1: for dinner after the session, and you know, I was

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Speaker 1: invited along and we started talking and you know, and

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Speaker 1: he said, look, you know, do you have many of

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Speaker 1: my records? I said, I have a few of them,

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Speaker 1: King records. He said, well, you know, come by my

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Speaker 1: my office, you know, when you can, and I'll give

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Speaker 1: you whatever you want, you know, And I did, And

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Speaker 1: that's how it all started. And then um, I kept

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Speaker 1: seeing him when he came to New York and uh,

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Speaker 1: then he invited me out to stay with his family

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Speaker 1: in Cincinnati, and he said, you'll really learn the music

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Speaker 1: business if you if you come out here, and believe me,

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Speaker 1: I did. I mean it was okay. So for those

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Speaker 1: people don't know, give us a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: make on sid Nathan Well King Records, Uh was based

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Speaker 1: in Cincinnati. He started it, and uh, it was one

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Speaker 1: of the biggest rhythm and blues companies. I would put

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Speaker 1: it up there with certainly with Atlanta, you know, Atlantic

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Speaker 1: and Chess. I would say was one of the three

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Speaker 1: most important R and B companies. But also they had

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Speaker 1: a very strong country roster and they were the biggest

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Speaker 1: indie in country music at the time. Star Day started

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Speaker 1: a few years later, and uh, you know, but King

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Speaker 1: was always bigger than So you go to Cincinnati. I mean,

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Speaker 1: most New Yorkers after they've been in New York really

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Speaker 1: can't live anywhere else. So what's it like going to Cincinnati.

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Speaker 1: It was very interesting, actually, Um, I mean I stayed

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Speaker 1: in this house and um, you know, I learned so

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Speaker 1: much those two I did it for two summers, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I learned so much. They weren't It wasn't a whole summer.

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Speaker 1: Was about three weeks each time. And I mean he

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Speaker 1: had me doing everything in the factory, including pressing records,

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Speaker 1: which scared me to death. Um and uh playing. I

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in the studio, which I loved.

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Speaker 1: They had a first class studio with an incredible engineer

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Speaker 1: and so um and they had great a and Almond,

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Speaker 1: I mean one of the greatest of all, Henry Glover

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Speaker 1: and uh, but many other Sonny Thompson and people like that.

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Speaker 1: But um, it was it was like being in heaven.

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Speaker 1: You know, who owns the king Assets today? Oh God,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. It's passed through so many maybe Universal

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Speaker 1: I I don't know. I hope they're using them properly

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Speaker 1: whoever owns them. But at least they're available for people

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Speaker 1: to listen to online. Yeah, so okay, So you do

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Speaker 1: that for a couple of summers, and then what's your

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Speaker 1: next thought. Well, then I was graduating, you know, high school,

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Speaker 1: and decided to get to take a full time position

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Speaker 1: at Billboard, which I did for about two and a

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Speaker 1: half years. And Sid said to me, look, he said,

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Speaker 1: do you want to be on the sidelines and stay

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Speaker 1: at Billboard or do you want to be a player.

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Speaker 1: You should be a player, he said, I'll give you

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Speaker 1: a job out here in Cincinnati. I'll help you find

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Speaker 1: an apartment. Until you can find an apartment. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can stay with with us, and you know, and

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Speaker 1: so I came out to Cincinnati, and that, you know,

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Speaker 1: was great. I mean everything. I mean that I just

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Speaker 1: lucked out with everything. You know, Well, you know, what's

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Speaker 1: the cliche. You make your own luck. So they must

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Speaker 1: have seen something in you, Yes, I guess, And there's

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Speaker 1: an opportunity. So you work for sid and how do

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Speaker 1: you move on from there? Well, her baby, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that name is. I know that is one

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Speaker 1: of the original founders of Atlantic Records. He was the

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Speaker 1: original founder and uh, you know, I'm it learned a

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Speaker 1: lot from him. But it was a dentist right, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: And you don't want to go there, but I gotta

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Speaker 1: go there now, perhaps to cease the long times. What

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Speaker 1: does that mean? He used to write prescriptions for himself

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Speaker 1: for cocaine. We'll take a quick break and come back

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Speaker 1: with more of my conversation with Seymour Stein. I love

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Speaker 1: getting together with music industry legends like seymour and hearing

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Speaker 1: the history of their careers in the business. I love

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Speaker 1: getting to the heart of someone's story, whether the famous

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Speaker 1: performer or manager, or record label executive or you. This week,

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Speaker 1: seymour Stein tells us about his journey to the top

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Speaker 1: of the record business. Previously, if we talked with artists

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Speaker 1: like Cascade Moby and Shirley Manson of Garbage. Whether you

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Speaker 1: come for the music, or you come for the business,

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Speaker 1: or you come for the personal be the first to

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Speaker 1: hear next week's episode by subscribing to the podcast on

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Speaker 1: tune in Apple wherever you listen to your podcast. While

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Speaker 1: you're there, Please be sure to rate and review. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's get back to my conversation with seymour Stein. Well,

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Speaker 1: the legend is that Herb gave m At the money

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Speaker 1: to start Atlantic. Is that true? I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: would I wouldn't. I wouldn't think that Ahmed had some money.

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Speaker 1: Am came from Ahmed and his brother necessary Um had

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Speaker 1: money because their father was quite wealthy. Their father was

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Speaker 1: second to at a turk in Turkey, and he when

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Speaker 1: when they dissolved the Ottoman Empire, and you know, he

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Speaker 1: sent Ahmed's father first to be the ambassad at all,

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Speaker 1: the Turkish ambassador in the Netherlands, then France, then England.

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Speaker 1: And when it all happened for Amaan Nessuay, he was

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Speaker 1: when they sent them to be the American ambassador, and

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Speaker 1: they discovered jazz and rhythm and blues and it blew

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Speaker 1: their minds. And I would imagine there was there was

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Speaker 1: money in the Errigan family. I mean, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: um and but Herb, to be fair, was a much

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Speaker 1: more accomplished, uh in the music business. I mean he

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Speaker 1: had had, you know, a success at other labels and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, but I I know nothing about that, but

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Speaker 1: I know that, you know, it was in the beginning.

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Speaker 1: It was herban on it, you know. And so anyway,

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Speaker 1: her now, by the time I met Herb, he was

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Speaker 1: way down on his luck. He had a little label

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Speaker 1: and you know, SID Distribute was distributing labels at that point.

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Speaker 1: He was very early into that. Just to be clear,

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Speaker 1: the CID is totally vertically integrated. He finds the acts,

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Speaker 1: he signs the acts, he produces them. He has his

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Speaker 1: own distributors. He had he had more distributed distribution locations

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Speaker 1: than the majors. At one point there were twenty two

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Speaker 1: all over the United States. And uh, a lot of

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Speaker 1: these were one man operations, you know, like in a

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Speaker 1: small city. You know, like a small city. But it

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Speaker 1: was the guy would open, you know, get the orders phone.

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Speaker 1: He would uh then pack them up and have them

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Speaker 1: picked up whatever whoever the delivery people went back then.

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Speaker 1: Um and in his spare time, you know, he would

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Speaker 1: drive out and see all the local radio stations and

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Speaker 1: do promotion as well. And one of one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the most important guys, Bob kras Now was

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Speaker 1: the head of the San Francisco branch. That's the way

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Speaker 1: he got his start. Yes, well, Bob Krausing out another

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Speaker 1: legend out and all over with us. He had Blue

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Speaker 1: Thumb Records. He ultimately ran electorate, totally wiped out the

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Speaker 1: roster and they had something in every genre and all

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Speaker 1: that hit really pretty incredible. But um was the driver? Radio?

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Speaker 1: What was the driver? You know? You could ship these records.

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Speaker 1: Why were people buying them? Oh? I guess it was

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Speaker 1: mostly radio. I mean, certainly for a new record, a

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Speaker 1: new artist, it was radio. Um, I guess the more

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Speaker 1: established artists, you know, people um, you know, would would

426
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: if they were fans, they would wait, you know, for

427
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: the record. Well, since you mentioned earlier, the jukeboxes very important,

428
00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: very very important, and you know, um because you know,

429
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: in like the black African American markets, you know, late neighborhoods,

430
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: they would be packed with great rhythm and blues songs,

431
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: you know, in in places where there were country fans,

432
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: they'd be you know, packed with records by you know,

433
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: Farren Young and Webb Pierce and Hank Williams and Kitty

434
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 1: Wells and people like that. And so a lot of

435
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: records were sold off of droop boxes and you know,

436
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: but radio I think was was the main stay. You know.

437
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: So anyway you meet her, he's done on his luck.

438
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: Well I had met him before, I know, I knew her,

439
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: I mean, and I admired him. He had the record company.

440
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: He said, uh, he said, why don't you come back

441
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: to New York and work for me? And he kept calling,

442
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: you know, and I was, you know, Cincinnati, it's it's

443
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: not a bad city. It's beautiful city, really, I mean

444
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: in an important city. It was at one time the

445
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: eighth largest city in America. Beautiful in the Ohio River

446
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: and all that, but I'm in New Yorker, so I

447
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: told I said, I said, look, Herbs offered me a job. Um,

448
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: and I think I'm gonna take it. He said, seem

449
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: when you're making a big mistake. He said, you'll be

450
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: out of work in six months, he said, Herb does.

451
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: He said, I'm doing a Herber favor. I'm really surprised

452
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: he would talk to you like this. But he said,

453
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: if you want to get back to New York, you know,

454
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: do it. You'll be out of a job in six months. Well,

455
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: Sid was wrong. I was out of work in three months,

456
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: so you know, but you know, but luckily not too

457
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: much long later, I got a call from George Goldener,

458
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: who um I knew, and he was recommended to him

459
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: by his lawyer, Warren Troupe, and I was quite friendly

460
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: with his son, Ted, And he said, you know, Warren

461
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: thinks you'd be a great assistant for me. He said,

462
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just starting up a label with Lieber and

463
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: stole a called Redbird Records. And I got the job there,

464
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: and I learned so much from George, you know, and

465
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: but you know, and then Redbird didn't last very long,

466
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,719
Speaker 1: but it was in the Brill Building, and I met everybody.

467
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: Our office was next to Bobby Darren's office with you know,

468
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: his publishing company, and uh a flora above we were

469
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: on nine floor was ft G Productions, and that's where

470
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: I met Richard Gottarett and we became I became friends

471
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: with his two with all of them Feldman Goldstein and

472
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: got her up. But they were having problems, not problems.

473
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: They were thinking about going their own way. They already

474
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: had their hit, They had all their hits that all

475
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: their hits, you know, hang on sloopy, Uh, my boyfriend's back, um,

476
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: you know, and um, you know, but all of it

477
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: so um, but all the hits that they had together,

478
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: that is. But then at the same time, Um, George

479
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: and and Jerry Lieber in particular, we're not getting along,

480
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: you know, you know, you know, George liked to have

481
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: mafia people around him, the same way Bert Burns did,

482
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: you know, And but not to the extent of bird Burns.

483
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: But this really upset Jerry, and I think Mike too.

484
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: But Mike was a lot more you know, placid and

485
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: read the end of Redbud. I could see the end

486
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: of Red Bird coming, and Richard asked me. You know,

487
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: he said, look, he said, I'm gonna I'm gonna be

488
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: splitting up my partners, he said, he said, you've got

489
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: great ears. He said, I'm a great producer. He said,

490
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: why don't we, uh, why don't we get together and start,

491
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: you know, a production company. And by that time, tom

492
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: Noonan was working at some at CBS, and he had

493
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: his own label Date and he gave us a deal

494
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: which gave us a good enough advance, uh to get started,

495
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: plus all the free studio time and that we needed

496
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: and and all of that. And Sid Nathan was closing

497
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: down his New York office and and rented me. He

498
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: owned the building. It was a Brownstone, and he rented

499
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: me the the main floor for two hundred and thirty

500
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: five dollars a month um. And I immediately rented the

501
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: biggest room to the Rifkin brothers because Richard was still

502
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: involved with the They managed a lot of the bands

503
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: that Richard had had produced, you know, the McCoy's and

504
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: and also the Strange Lads when they went on tour.

505
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: So it what Strange Lads was got gotta right, yeah,

506
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: felt there were the three of them. But yeah, so um,

507
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: you know that's that's how SIA started, and you know,

508
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: progressed as it went along. You know. Okay, how long

509
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: after it starts do you have your first hit? First

510
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: first income? Never mind hit? Were year when year to

511
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: sires start? Um as a record company, we started about

512
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: a year and a half later. And before you were

513
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: what a publishing company? Production? Now we we're production company.

514
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: And the records came out. Um you know so I

515
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: mean though that you're saying, that's with your deal with

516
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: doing it? Yes, now that that was with Date Records

517
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: at CBS. We signed some really good artists, you know. Um. Uh,

518
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: my friend Pete Bennett, the legendary promotion man, I'm sure

519
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: you heard of him. He's a dear, dear friend. He said,

520
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: I got somebody that's just right for your label, and

521
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: he brought him down to me. And his name was

522
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: Steven Tallarico. And I happen to know because when my

523
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: newsletter used to be in print, he used his real name.

524
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: That's all I knew who he was. Okay, so I

525
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: signed him. We put out a record. Uh he wrote

526
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: the song so Tellarico. The only place that made any

527
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: noise was Italy and uh so it was called the son.

528
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: And so his father comes to my office and says, uh,

529
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: I want the contract back. I said, look, we're gonna

530
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 1: go in the studio. Richard's going to make another record

531
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: with him. He said, I want to contract back, and

532
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: he took out a gun and and so I said,

533
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,959
Speaker 1: we'll put that away. Come on, So rich said to me, look,

534
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: he said, I know from my days A bang he said,

535
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: Because you know that, he said, give him the contract back,

536
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: and which is what I did. But we had some

537
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: good audits. Okay for those says we haven't revealed revealed

538
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: who Steven Tallarico is. Oh well, Steven Tyler. Steven Steve

539
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: Tallarico is Steven Tyler, and uh okay, So when you

540
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: had him, was he doing the same act what ultimately

541
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: it was in narrow Smith. It's going to listen to

542
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: your record. Did it like Errol Smith? No? But it

543
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: was a great song. I mean it really was. I mean,

544
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: it comes once a day through the shade of my window.

545
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: It da da da da da da. He was. Look,

546
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: you don't think he just became talented when he started Arrowsmith.

547
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: He was always talented. It was a great song. But uh,

548
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think they paid that much attention

549
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: to it, that's all. But then we started Sire Records,

550
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 1: and uh we got our first distribution deal was through

551
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: London Records, British Decker's own company, and so we had

552
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: a little bit of success there. Nothing nothing great, I mean,

553
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: but you're paying the bills. We're managing to stay keep

554
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: our heads above water. Yeah we are. We weren't. We

555
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: weren't taking much salary for ourselves and we're getting by

556
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: and uh so, um, you know, I was very well

557
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: looked after when I worked for George I must I

558
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: must say that. So I had some money. Richard had

559
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of money, you know, and

560
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 1: and all that. But um, you know, we we got by,

561
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: you know, and then I decided, look, I want to

562
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: I want to go. I skipped apart when I was

563
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: when I was working at King uh Lenwood LG. Wood

564
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: would come over to uh C SID every summer, and

565
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: Lenwood was the managing director and later chairman of E.

566
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 1: M I Records, the biggest record company in the world

567
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: then and the only really truly global company at the time,

568
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: especially since they after they bought capital in nineteen fifty two.

569
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: So so lenn Is normally operating out of London. Oh,

570
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 1: they're definitely so, because he would come in the summer

571
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: to visit the companies that he had the licensees for

572
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 1: outside of America, and King was one of the biggest

573
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: ones he had, and he I think he gotta get

574
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: of sit anyway, he was that part of the character

575
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: said so, um, you know, and Sid had me in

576
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: the room when I was talking to him, and he

577
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: took you know, he must have saw something in me too.

578
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 1: He said to me, Look, he said, uh, you really

579
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 1: you know, know your stuff. And he said, look, you know,

580
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: one day you're going to start your own company. I

581
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: really believe that, and I want you to be. I

582
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: want E M. I to be the first company you

583
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: come to and see. Uh and I you know, And

584
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: what was in back in my mind was, oh my god,

585
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: if I started label. You know, Capital rejected the Beatles

586
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: not once, but twice. They were first on VJ and

587
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: then VJ. The BJ would have had him for six

588
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: years except they you know, didn't they didn't pay any royalties.

589
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 1: So um then uh, then they rejected she loves you.

590
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: Can you believe that? So? And you love that? What

591
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: came out on I'll tell you how that happened that

592
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: He was never my lawyer, but he was my best

593
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: one of my best friends. Paul Marshall was a genius

594
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: lawyer and he represented E. M. I. And he said, look,

595
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: he said, I'll get capital to take the Beatles up.

596
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: He said, but you're gonna have to go with me.

597
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this record to Swan. Dick Clark owns

598
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: the label. I don't know if you knew that, I didn't,

599
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: well you know it now. He owned he owned a

600
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: piece of every label. You know. Alan Freed almost went

601
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: to jail, but Dick Clark was you know, it was

602
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: the one that really you know, the payola king and

603
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: you can you can really, I mean he owned a

604
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: piece of just about every label in Philadelphia. But Swan

605
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: he owned himself. Had this guy Tony Mammarella run it

606
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: for him. He said, look, I'll give it to I'll

607
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: give it to Swan at a very low royalty and

608
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 1: no renewals. He said. He said, Dick Clark will break

609
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: this record and he did. And uh so. At the

610
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: same time, Um, the Beatles had the top three hits

611
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: on the Billboard. Trot Rotating Because She Loves You came back,

612
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 1: um and uh, please please me came back and all

613
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: of them so um, you know, and that was you know,

614
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: and then Capital of course picked it up. But I

615
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 1: figured if they could, you know, not put out the Beatles,

616
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: what what other gems would they leave behind? That's where

617
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: I signed the Climax Blues Band, Renaissance, Barcley, James Harvest, uh,

618
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: Kevin Airs and many many other things for little or

619
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: no advance. LG was wonderful to me. Um, you know,

620
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: an interesting story I did. I kept my word that

621
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: he would be the first person I saw, and uh

622
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: he sent someone to meet me at the airport and

623
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: I could hardly understand what he was saying. He had

624
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: such a thick Scottish acts and he looked like he

625
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: was about twelve years old. He was actually about seventeen.

626
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: And he says, I said, uh, he said, I'm here

627
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,919
Speaker 1: to meet you. He said, I said, well, where's the cars?

628
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: His car car? I could I drive? You know? And

629
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: all that. It was John Reid, you know, who later

630
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 1: became Melton's uh you know many things, and his manager

631
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: and you know, so you know, and uh, that's how

632
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,720
Speaker 1: I first met John Reed and threw him Elton John

633
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: and that's how I met Elton. So um. But anyway,

634
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: uh that all those licensed records from E M I

635
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 1: helped us a bit. And then the greatest thing happened

636
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: was when I was putting out so many English records

637
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: by em from E M I, all the other companies,

638
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 1: the Dutch, the French, you know, the Spanish, they all

639
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 1: started sending me my product. And I heard this record

640
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: by a guitar player, jan Akaman, and I immediately fell

641
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: in love with it. He had a rendition of Ode

642
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: to Billy Joe, which was so fantastic instrumental. I called

643
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: the guy up. I said, look, you know, uh, we

644
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 1: don't put out you know, we don't pay big advances,

645
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: but I'd really like to pick up this jan Akaman.

646
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: He said, yann com in. You don't have to pay

647
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: any advance, he said, he said, he just left us.

648
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: He said, he's he's free, he's a free agent. Now

649
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: you can have the record for nothing. He said, I said, really,

650
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: where did he go? He said he went back to

651
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: his old man Focus. So I said Focus. I said, um, well,

652
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: where were they? He said, oh, they got a job playing,

653
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: uh for the Dutch production of Have I got on

654
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: a plane, I met them, I signed them, and that

655
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: was that was really that's what put us. When you

656
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: were the main label, you didn't license the record from

657
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: anybody else. I licensed it but for the whole world

658
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: excluding Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg. That the guy that had

659
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 1: them under contract mostly as a publisher but also records

660
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: was a guy named Hubert to Hagen who in Radio

661
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: tell A Luxembourg Um and the publishing side of it,

662
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: which was Radio Luxembourg which is a big you know

663
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: radio station, and you know, so um I paid I

664
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: don't even want to I don't even want to say

665
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: the amount. Okay, but the record, that record, did that

666
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: record have hocus focus on it? No, it was the

667
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: next record that had I'll tell you. I'll tell you

668
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: the story of that too. So the way we get

669
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: the first record? Can you do anything with the first record?

670
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: It did a little, It did a little, you know,

671
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 1: it did you know moderately, well maybe thirty forty thousand

672
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: it did. Um Telling those what was motivating people to

673
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: buy I don't I don't know. I think because they

674
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: will get they were getting some information, you know, and

675
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: hearing it from the English were playing it and uh,

676
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: so I think that's how it happened. Maybe last I don't.

677
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: I don't remember. It was nothing spectacular, but you know

678
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 1: about uh about a year before this, or when I

679
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 1: very first signed Focus, Uh, you know, I had another

680
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: label which I still owned, called Blue Horizon Records. At

681
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: one point I saw around half of it, but then

682
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: they just seen as a jazz label, was a blues label.

683
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: Excuse me, I think they were. Mike Ernan one of

684
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: the greatest producers ever. He produced the first David Bowie record,

685
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, under his real real name, you know, and um,

686
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: he was a producer at Decca, and they let him

687
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: have his own label, Blue Horizon, and you know, he

688
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: put Fleetwood Mac together and they had the early Fleetwood

689
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: Mac records which which are on still on Blue Horizon

690
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: and Chicken Shack, which is where Christine Perfect came from,

691
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: now Christine McVie. And so he says to me, look,

692
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: this is we're in business. He said, Seymour, I wish

693
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: you'd do me a big favor and come to the

694
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: winds of Popping jazz festival with me. He says, it's

695
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: not popping, it's not jazz, it's you know, rock stuff.

696
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: And he said, I just, you know, come with me.

697
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: I'm bringing my I'm bringing my engineer, Gus Studgeon, who

698
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: later became Gus Dudgeon, Elton's producer. He was an engineer

699
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: at Deck still the best Elton records. Yes, oh yes,

700
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: Gus was great. Unfortunately he died in the car Creuse

701
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: driving home from Melton's house with his wife, who worked

702
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: for Decca. I knew how to, you know, but very

703
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: very sad, good, very good people. So I go there

704
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: and you know, the music was all right, and then

705
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: this band come on and they blew mama, you know,

706
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 1: and they I loved them so much. I couldn't wait

707
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: till they got finished because I looked them up and

708
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: they were managed by, uh, you know the Chrystalist guys

709
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: before the Chrystmas label, Uh you know Exist and Chris Right.

710
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: And I said, this band, they're managed by Chris and

711
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: Terry and you produced Savoy Brown and ten years after

712
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: for them, they were managing them. I said, we ought

713
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: to grab this record for the Blue Horizon. He said,

714
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: oh see, Moore, I would never work with the flout Ist.

715
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: So I didn't know. I didn't know what the flowerst meant,

716
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: you know, we call him flut players, I mean. And

717
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: I didn't want to show my ignorance, you know, so

718
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: I thought it was who knew what the floutst was,

719
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: you know? And so I turned to gust Duddon and

720
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: he I said, Gus, you'll be the you'd be the

721
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: engineer here, which he said, see more. And this really

722
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: hurts nothing. Michael could say whatever hurt me because he's

723
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: just to me, Seymour, You don't play an instrument, do you?

724
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 1: I said, no, what what does that have to do

725
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: with that I got to use? He said, if you

726
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: played an instrument, you would have heard all the bad

727
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: notes this band hit. He said, I couldn't wait till

728
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: they finished, So I kept pushing him, pushing him to

729
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: sign it, you know, and uh, you know, and and

730
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: they didn't, you know, and you know who was so

731
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: and uh, I even have a letter when Mike finally

732
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: I gave up on him. I have a letter from

733
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: Chris Terry and I've saved where he wrote me. He said, Seymour,

734
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: we we couldn't get anybody to sign him, so we

735
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: started the crystalist labor. And I wished him good luck

736
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: and everything and all of that, and uh, and all

737
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: of that. But now fast forward a year. I said, Tim, Mike,

738
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: I said, Mike, I don't care if you like flautist

739
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: or not. You're gonna produce this record. And it was

740
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: one of the most successful records Mike ever produced. You know,

741
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: I'm moving waves by focus and uh, you know Mike

742
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: is happily retired and living in Spain and growing olives

743
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: and things and okay, so how do you how it's

744
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: all the story of hocus Pocus? Pardon tell us the

745
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: story of hocus Pocus. Well, it was on the album,

746
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: you know, and it was delivered to you you no, no, no, no, Mike, No.

747
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: I think I heard it because I kept going back

748
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: and forth. You know, I heard it when I was

749
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: in England when they were making it, and I liked

750
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: it very much. I said this, this, this is great.

751
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: And there were a couple of other tracks on there

752
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: that I must admit I like, you know very much too. So, um,

753
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: this was a big breakthrough. Mike was great produce. I mean,

754
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, and and patient he was so

755
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: I mean, really to work with John Mayle, uh, no disrespect,

756
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: you had to be very patient. But you know, Mike

757
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: could produce anything. I mean, you know, and uh, but

758
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: I knew there was something there and you know, and

759
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: sure enough there was. Well how did you make that

760
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: a hit? Well, um, that's another story if you want

761
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: to hear it. I had a trouble getting it released.

762
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 1: By this time, we had moved over to a Pollador

763
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: for our distribution, and the the guy there was Jerry Shawmbaum,

764
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: who was one of the greatest music guys in the world.

765
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't say a bad worried about him.

766
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: And he was putting out all these records we were making,

767
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: and he kept sliding the focus record, you know, putting

768
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: it back. I said, listen, this is the best record

769
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: I got. You gotta stop this. It's already starting to

770
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: happen in England and he should seem more I'm not

771
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: putting the record out. He said, you know, Uh, there's

772
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: this there's these people at paler Or. There's this guy

773
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: Freddie High and he keeps pressing me to put out

774
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: all of his Dutch records, he said. And I said,

775
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: he's got some great records too, you know, I said

776
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: you should put them out also. He should seem what

777
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: do you want to release? I said, yes, and he

778
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: gave me a release, and I went to Tony Martel

779
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: and who was running Paramount, and and you know the

780
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: he got really behind the record, great man, and uh

781
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: you know the record took off, you know, and very

782
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: very fortunate. Okay, so that's your first big success. You

783
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: make a lot? Okay, what's that seventy three? Oh no, no,

784
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: I think, oh god. Right, you're listening to my conversation

785
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: with the legendary record executive Seymour Stunt. I hope you're

786
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: enjoying this episode of the Bob Left Sets Podcast. If

787
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: you want to see videos, photos, and soundbites from Seymour

788
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: and our other guests, visit at tune in on Twitter, Facebook,

789
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: and Instagram. Now we're my conversation with Seymour Stein on

790
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: the Bob Left Sets Podcast. Okay, so now this new

791
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: scene starts to version in New York City, the New

792
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: Waves scene. So how do you get How does that

793
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: get your attention? How did it not get my attention?

794
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 1: I mean I live in New York. Okay, let's stop

795
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: for a second. You live through all these generations of music. Yes,

796
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: the cliche is that people like the music that they

797
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: grew up within their taste. Stop now, I'm at famously

798
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 1: said at some point, you won't get it anymore in

799
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: this piece, right, it's this particular point in time. Do

800
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: you continue to like this music or you see it

801
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: as a business opportunity. Oh? No, if I didn't like something,

802
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: I wouldn't sign it. I don't, you know. Um. The

803
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: thing is, I was overdroid. New York when I was

804
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: a kid was ground zero. Then you have Motown Detroit,

805
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,760
Speaker 1: Then you have um, you know, l A becoming really

806
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: really hot, um, Memphis, you know, and and all these

807
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: other places, and then the final blow the Beatles and

808
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 1: all the English stuff. So New York was quite diminished

809
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: by all of that. No, I was very very pleased

810
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: to see New York being back, you know, in the groove. Okay,

811
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: let's just jump all the way forward today in terms

812
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: of today's hit music, chart music. Since you just said

813
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: at some point you don't get it? Do you get

814
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: today's hit music? Uh? To be honest, not as much.

815
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: You know, I you know, I can. I can still

816
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: hear a great band, you know. Um, but you know

817
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 1: I feel that, you know, I don't think I'm quite

818
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: you know, as as as up on things as as

819
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: I was back then. To be perfectly honest. But if

820
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: I played you the Top fifty, which were great degree

821
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: as hip hop influenced? Or is hip hop Drake and

822
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: Kanye Uh, I like some of it very much, but

823
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: it's you know, and I was. I was the first

824
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: person at one Is to get into rap music. I

825
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 1: signed the Ice T and uh that's an interesting story too.

826
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 1: But um, but I'm not that up on it, you know,

827
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: And I think that you know, there are so many

828
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: other labels that are so good at it that you know,

829
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 1: why would they come to me? Okay, let's go also

830
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: to the other side of the fence. If you are

831
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 1: an act, what are you looking for when you do

832
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 1: sign an act? This is where your whole career as

833
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: opposed to songs. Yes, so to what degree is it

834
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: important to person to be able to perform them live? Uh?

835
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: Eventually it's very important. I mean, but some of these bands.

836
00:55:54,520 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: Look the bands that I have signed over the years. Know,

837
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: I very seldom signed a band that was established. Yes,

838
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 1: I made I brought lou Reid back, you know, I

839
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: made records with Jerry Lee Lewis and things like that.

840
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: But um, you know, but the thing is that most

841
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: of my artists, you know, all the overwhelming you know

842
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: with brand new bands and brand new artists and um

843
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 1: you know uh so, I mean it's what I listened

844
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 1: to with the songs. Um, musicianship can always improve. I

845
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 1: mean in some cases the musicianship at the beginning was excellent,

846
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: like with the Smiths Wow. Uh. Like with the Pretenders

847
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 1: wow you know uh with the Peesh Mode it was

848
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: I wouldn't go wow wow wow. But it was so

849
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: much better than all the other English bands at that

850
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: time that you know I had looked at. I mean,

851
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: these these were you know that there were so much better.

852
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: But the song is is the most. Do you think

853
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 1: your ability to pick hits is based on an innate

854
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: ability or experience? I never thought about it. I mean

855
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: it's just I think I have a good year for songs.

856
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: That's what my ear is good for, you know, of course.

857
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: I mean when I heard Johnny Marr play I'm not

858
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not deaf. I mean I knew. I said,

859
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: what an exceptional guitar player he is. You know, I

860
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: went there to see them and that's when I signed them.

861
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: I said, you know, you know, because Jeff Travis was

862
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: talking about how great you know, the band was and uh,

863
00:57:55,520 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: but you know, mostly about Marriscy, Marriscy, Marriscy. And I

864
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: said to him, look, there are two superstars in this band,

865
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: and we're lucky, very lucky. But you know, I can

866
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: recognize it. But what I look for is the material,

867
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: the songs. So in the since you've signed so many

868
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 1: acts from Square one to sign them, have you had

869
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: to compete with other labels? Very rarely? I mean, because

870
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: I get in so early, you know, and uh, I

871
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: couldn't compete. I never had the money, you know to compete,

872
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 1: even even during most of my days at one is okay.

873
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: So now this is a scene that's happening in New

874
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: York famously at cb GBS. You're saying, how could you

875
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 1: not know? But so everyone in the business knew that

876
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: because at first the scene was ignored. Well, um, yeah,

877
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: people had a bad impression of the ballery, you know.

878
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, there are bums there, uh, sleeping in

879
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 1: the street. But they're sleeping in the street. You know,

880
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: it's not a dangerous area. But people didn't like to

881
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 1: go down to the barery. Now the houses there, you know,

882
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: in the hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars, you know.

883
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: But the thing is, you know, it didn't keep me away,

884
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: and uh, it didn't keep Danny Fields away. It didn't

885
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: you know, it didn't keep a lot of people away.

886
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: But okay, so you see the remotes, you immediately say, okay,

887
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: this is a band I want to sign. Oh well,

888
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: I didn't see them at CBS. I was sick and

889
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 1: I couldn't go. Linda went my wife with Danny Fields,

890
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: and Fields working for you. No, no, Danny Fields never

891
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: worked for me. But he became the manager with Linda

892
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: of the Mounds. But Linda came back raving. I was

893
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 1: still sick. It. I bundled up and you know, rented

894
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: a rehearsal studio where they played you know, maybe eighteen

895
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 1: songs and I say jokingly, eighteen songs in twenty two minutes.

896
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 1: But it wasn't quite like that. But I was. I

897
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: fell in love with them even, you know, And so

898
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: you said, I did the deal right there. They were

899
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: in the studio a few days later, and you know

900
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 1: the genius was Tommy. I wouldn't. I think they all contributed,

901
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: But whose vision was it? Because it was so different

902
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: from what was going on? Well, um, I think the

903
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: driving force was Johnny. Um. I think that Joey's voice

904
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: was amazing. Um, Deedy was also a good songwriter too,

905
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 1: you know. But Tommy was it was actually the original

906
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: manager and part of the band. He he was the

907
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: one mostly to do business with, although Johnny was very

908
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: smart too. I mean, I'm not trying to say the

909
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 1: other on swat but uh, but when it came to business,

910
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 1: you know, it was Tommy and Johnny and these were

911
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: very low sums involved. Were you paid them? And how

912
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 1: much time it took to record the record? Yes, and

913
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: the record comes out and people this is like springtime

914
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: for Hitler. They don't know whether it's a joke that's

915
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: in America. Yes. But when I brought them over to England,

916
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, um, it was instrumental in getting other bands

917
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: to to go pro you know. So um but I

918
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: mean that that's how important it was on the continent

919
01:01:55,200 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: as well. In Brazil and and and Argentina. They did

920
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 1: very very well. They were playing big, big clubs and

921
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 1: big theaters in England and they had to come back

922
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 1: to you know, playing these dingy little clubs. It it

923
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: was heartbreaking for me and it must have been even

924
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 1: worse for them. Well, yeah, I just remember I thought

925
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 1: it was sort of a joke, and then I bought

926
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 1: the third album, Rocket to Russia with Rockaway Beach. I said,

927
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 1: this is genius. But but you see that when the

928
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: sex Pistols and uh the you know, uh um what

929
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: the Clash saw them, that's when they decided to go.

930
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: So it's like the Velvet Underground. Everybody heard them. They

931
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,959
Speaker 1: didn't sell, but other people were influences. I don't know, great,

932
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 1: you know, right, So it's ironic because they really never

933
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: broke through until everybody was dead. It's it's very sad.

934
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:58,439
Speaker 1: But but walked down the street of a busy city

935
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: you see more Ramos T shirts than anything else, you know.

936
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 1: I mean, and you know, so were you still involved

937
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 1: with and they were when they worked with Phil Specter.

938
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 1: Of course it was I put the whole thing together.

939
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: So Geniu's idea, the result, Yes, the result was not.

940
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: I think that was the end of the century, I believe. Well,

941
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 1: the thing is that Johnny was very much against working

942
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: with Phil Specter, and but Joey wanted it. It was

943
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: a lifetime ambition for him, and I got it to

944
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: work as best I could. You know and you know

945
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: so um you know, and uh, just just to make

946
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: sure I had a week before they came over, I

947
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 1: had the Pailey brothers go in with with Phil just

948
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: to make sure that Hill was you know, under control,

949
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: and he made ut a couple of tracks with them,

950
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 1: and you know, I I think that you didn't like

951
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:10,800
Speaker 1: that record. I think as I say, my favorite is

952
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: the third and then the fourth. Road to Ruin is

953
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: my second favorite. And it became something where I bought

954
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: all those records. But this is a funny business. I

955
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 1: mean business changed again now where if you don't have

956
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 1: a hit by a certain point, it looks like you're

957
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 1: never gonna have a hit. So one always looks to

958
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: Phil spec Your one always listens to a Phil Spectra record,

959
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 1: but to be the one he did with Leonard Cohen

960
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: or the you know, the one he did the Ramons.

961
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: But once again, it seemed at a commercial aspect, somewhat

962
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 1: like a failed experiment, like this would be the thing

963
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 1: to break them through, and it didn't break them through.

964
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: So it's less about the record itself than the commercial potential.

965
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: Well you can't play that on Phil Spectr, No, I can't.

966
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: You can't blame it on the ramon. No, but I

967
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 1: ask ask you do you think Phil was still still

968
01:04:55,640 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: had his chops at that point? Um? Uh, you know,

969
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 1: I I think phils are you know, I really call

970
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 1: people geniuses. I think Phil Specter is a genius. Um

971
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: and you know it. I knew him very early on

972
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: when he you know, I met him very very early

973
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: on when he had a little tiny office in an

974
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 1: apartment building. And uh, I remained pretty close with him.

975
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: I'm sorry the way he's ended up. And but you know,

976
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 1: Phil Specter, liebern Stola, you know that, you know, and

977
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 1: some of the R and B producers that they're the

978
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 1: greatest producers you know ever in my eyes, you know.

979
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: So how do you sign the talking heads? Well, um,

980
01:05:56,120 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 1: I come home from England, exhausted, Linda's managing them, and uh,

981
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm in the house five or ten minutes the phone rings,

982
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 1: but Linda's managing the remons, talking the ramones, and I

983
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: get a call from Johnny. So we got some new material.

984
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 1: You know, we want you to hear it, you know.

985
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: So I said, look, I said, you know, I just

986
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 1: got home and uh it was a Sunday, I remember, clearly,

987
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 1: I said, look, give me Monday to catch up and Tuesday,

988
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: come in any time you want and not played. He said,

989
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: oh no, we want you to hear it live, and

990
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: we know you're not doing anything Wednesday, so we booked

991
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 1: ourselves into CBGBs. I said, great, I'll come down and

992
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: see you. So immediately I called to check to find

993
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 1: out who was the opening act. It was the Shirts,

994
01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 1: and wow, that brings it back. Well, I didn't want

995
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: to see them because I liked them, but not enough

996
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 1: to sign them. Ultimately, I believe in Capital and the

997
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 1: lead singer ended up being in the production of here,

998
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: and that's the last I've heard. Well, that wasn't the

999
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: reason I didn't, but Hilly was managing them, and I

1000
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 1: love Hilly and I didn't want to disappoint him by

1001
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 1: turning the Crystal who own CBGBs, and I didn't. I

1002
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: didn't want to yet have to turn them down again.

1003
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 1: So it was mid November. I get there early and

1004
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 1: very early. Lenny k is outside, great guy, and We're

1005
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 1: standing there waiting for the first band to go on,

1006
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 1: and I'm expecting the Shirts to go on, and I

1007
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: hear when my love stands next to you, all up,

1008
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 1: I said, and actually I'm not exaggerating. The music was

1009
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 1: so hypnotic. It was sucking me into the room and

1010
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 1: Lenny was following me, and I said, Lenny, this isn't

1011
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: the Shirts. What's going on here? He says, no, this

1012
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: is the Talking Heads Hill. He got the shirts a

1013
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 1: paying drop in Brooklyn, he said. And when I got

1014
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 1: in there, I was mesmerized just through it was just

1015
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: three piece. Then, oh god, it was. It took my

1016
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 1: breath away. It was so incredible, one of the greatest

1017
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 1: experiences of my life. When they were over, I tried,

1018
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 1: they had no crew or nothing. I tried to help

1019
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 1: Tina down, you know, with you know, and David comes

1020
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 1: over to me. He said, we know who you are,

1021
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:51,679
Speaker 1: you know like and he hands me a card. He says,

1022
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 1: this is a loft if you want to come and

1023
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 1: see us some time tomorrow. And boy did I want

1024
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:00,600
Speaker 1: to see them. And I went over there and I

1025
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: offered them a deal. And you know, they were busy

1026
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 1: with video, you know, and they were busy going back

1027
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: and forth to Providence, you know, where they had gone

1028
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 1: to school and other things. And I there were seven

1029
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:20,759
Speaker 1: major labels at the time, and I was sure somebody

1030
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 1: would offer them something and they would just blow me

1031
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:30,439
Speaker 1: out of the of contention. Eleven and a half months later,

1032
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:36,600
Speaker 1: on November one, I signed them, And what what sleepless

1033
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 1: nights I had? I'm you know, I don't I don't

1034
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:41,760
Speaker 1: know how Linda put up with me during that talk.

1035
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: You know, I was, you know, biting my nails and everything.

1036
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 1: I loved the Talking Heads so much, and uh, you

1037
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 1: know all of them, you know, I mean David that,

1038
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 1: you know, Chris and Tina, I mean Jerry, mean just

1039
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 1: who joined? But what a great band? Do you finally

1040
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 1: close them? After eleve and a half months, Oh, they

1041
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 1: called me, they said, we're ready to sign. So the

1042
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 1: first record comes out, Talking at seventy seven, gets a

1043
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: lot of press, scot Psycho Killer doesn't really hit. Then

1044
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 1: they change production teams. Can you tell us about that? Uh? God, well,

1045
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 1: they always had choice of their producers, you know, right,

1046
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: But if this was before you know, I don't believe

1047
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: it had a success as a producer before he did. There,

1048
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 1: David got to know you know, very well, and you

1049
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 1: know so um and did fit the budget, you know,

1050
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it was a little more than

1051
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:56,839
Speaker 1: a usual sigh record at that time. But I believed

1052
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: so much in them, and uh, you know, I let

1053
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 1: it rip, you know, and you can you tell us

1054
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 1: the story how they did take Me to the River,

1055
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 1: which really was the breakthrough track on that album. Well,

1056
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't there when they did, okay, so that was

1057
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 1: their choice. Oh yes, And when you heard the record,

1058
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: you go, I loved I loved the song before, you know,

1059
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 1: and they told me they were going to do it,

1060
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: and I I thought it was a great song to do.

1061
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 1: But if they had picked something else, unless I thought

1062
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 1: it was, you know, really terrible, I might have said something. No,

1063
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 1: take Me to the River is a great song. And

1064
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,680
Speaker 1: they did a great job. So there are any other

1065
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 1: bands that you tried to get from that? Erather? You

1066
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 1: couldn't sig him? Yeah? That was some Did they succeed that?

1067
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: What did they ultimately succeed with other people? Um? Well,

1068
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:52,639
Speaker 1: one man, I really liked a lot at from that period.

1069
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 1: I just will talk about that period. I really like television.

1070
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't think Tom Valane and I

1071
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 1: hit it off and you know that that well, but

1072
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, uh, and you know he signed to Electra

1073
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 1: and you know, I was hoping it would be a

1074
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:19,840
Speaker 1: big success. Karen Berg brought them in, who was a

1075
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 1: great a and all women and you know, so um,

1076
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 1: but it really didn't happen that it didn't. I I

1077
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 1: love television, you know. First albums, second album not as

1078
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 1: good as one track I like. But then the band

1079
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 1: broke up. Okay, meanwhile, you're flying to England and your

1080
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:43,840
Speaker 1: signing acts. Yes, so what acts are you signing at

1081
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 1: this time? The Cure, the Cult, Depeche Mode, um, you know, um,

1082
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 1: the Smiths eventually, um, you know, lots lots and lots

1083
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:02,120
Speaker 1: of games. So the bands that have UK deals and

1084
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:05,639
Speaker 1: the American rights are up for ground. Yes in some cases.

1085
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,800
Speaker 1: Now would that go when the money men? I was

1086
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,639
Speaker 1: able to get them for the world and uh I um,

1087
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 1: but I had a little trouble signing them. But in

1088
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: the end I got Rob Dickens to start a label.

1089
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 1: This was Warner wouldn't give you any more money. Yeah,

1090
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 1: but he said, look, your your your your your money.

1091
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 1: You're not do any more signing money for the next

1092
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 1: three or four months. You'll have to wait. I said, wait,

1093
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:39,720
Speaker 1: they'll be gone. They could be gone tomorrow. They're that good.

1094
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:44,719
Speaker 1: So I, you know, I went home. I was really sad.

1095
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: And the brightest star at Warner Brothers in those days

1096
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 1: was Rob Dickens, but he wasn't in the record side

1097
01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 1: of things, but he had the best ear is he

1098
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 1: unbelieved bo I said, Rob, I want you to listen

1099
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 1: to this band I want to sign and he loved

1100
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:10,639
Speaker 1: them as much as I did. I had some music

1101
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 1: of theirs. He said, I think you should sign him.

1102
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 1: I said, look, why don't we do it together. I'll

1103
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 1: tell you the truth, you know, I said, one is uh,

1104
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to give me any money for a

1105
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:25,240
Speaker 1: few months. I said, why don't we start a label.

1106
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 1: He said, oh, that would be fabulous, and he said,

1107
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,640
Speaker 1: I'd love to do it with you. I said, I

1108
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 1: always thought you you know, you're a great publisher, but

1109
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,799
Speaker 1: I think you'd be an even greater record man. Basically

1110
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 1: just looking for the money. Why don't you're really just looking? No,

1111
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 1: I was looking to look, you know. By this time,

1112
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 1: I was doing it pretty much all myself. And I

1113
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:59,440
Speaker 1: mean I recognized Robert as being an extraordinary talent, incredible.

1114
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 1: His whole family. His brother is one of the top

1115
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 1: you know book engagents. His nephew managers Adele. His father

1116
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: was one of the founders of the New Musical Express.

1117
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a great musical family, you know,

1118
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:21,479
Speaker 1: and uh and Rob's the star. So um. But so

1119
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 1: we did it, I said, Rob. I'm so happy, I said.

1120
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 1: And I was really tired, you know, because I was

1121
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 1: losing sleepover you know somebody. So and and we did,

1122
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: you know, we're going to do the deal. And I

1123
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 1: knew they would accept it. May probably love Rob, you know,

1124
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 1: because he's so good. And uh, so I said, Rob,

1125
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:44,760
Speaker 1: I'll see you. He said, what do you mean see me?

1126
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 1: He said, we have to come up with a name

1127
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 1: for the label. I said, Rob, you know, I've got Sire,

1128
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:53,639
Speaker 1: I've got Blue Horizon, I've got I've had a couple

1129
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:56,880
Speaker 1: other little labels at the time, so nothing of a

1130
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 1: great note. But so I said, up, you'll pick it

1131
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:04,560
Speaker 1: whatever you want. He said no, he said, there's a partnership.

1132
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 1: Will do it together. And we sat there and I

1133
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:12,040
Speaker 1: was getting dizzier and dizzy, you know, and dizzy, and

1134
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:17,160
Speaker 1: he was his favorite movie was A Clockwork Orange and uh.

1135
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 1: He had the poster there big and I'm started reading

1136
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 1: the poster and I see the word Carova, I said, Carova.

1137
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:30,800
Speaker 1: He's I said, that's what we should call the label Corova.

1138
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:33,720
Speaker 1: You know. He said, way did you get that from?

1139
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 1: I said, from your poster? So he said, great, you know,

1140
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:44,880
Speaker 1: And that's that's how that all happened. We'll pause here

1141
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:46,640
Speaker 1: for a brief moment and get right back to my

1142
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:53,920
Speaker 1: conversation with Seymour Stunt. For those not in the know,

1143
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 1: I'm primarily a writer, and you can sign up from

1144
01:16:57,439 --> 01:16:59,519
Speaker 1: my newsletter at left sets dot com or read it

1145
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 1: on the dog if that's too much for you, in

1146
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:04,560
Speaker 1: addition to following my commentary on music tech in the

1147
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:06,760
Speaker 1: world at large. They'll be the first to find out

1148
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 1: when we've published a new episode of the podcast. Go

1149
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,599
Speaker 1: to left sets dot com and sign him for the newsletter.

1150
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:14,320
Speaker 1: I know you'll enjoy it. Now more with rock and

1151
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Famer legendary music executive Seymour Star. Now,

1152
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:23,920
Speaker 1: did you sign Depeche Mode with did they just can't

1153
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 1: get enough? Come on, sire? You came after that when

1154
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 1: the guy left the band and started I had. I

1155
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:33,599
Speaker 1: had depeche Mode from the very I was at their

1156
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 1: very first gig. Uh. The thing is, I was a

1157
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:41,559
Speaker 1: big fan of Daniel Miller, who I had put out

1158
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:44,479
Speaker 1: two of his records that he was the artist, and

1159
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:48,599
Speaker 1: I woke up one morning early, thank god, I woke

1160
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:51,600
Speaker 1: up early, like six o'clock in the morning, and the

1161
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:56,120
Speaker 1: anemy or melody maker it was Daniel Miller signs real

1162
01:17:56,280 --> 01:18:01,640
Speaker 1: band to Mute and Depeche Mode, you know, and then

1163
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 1: I read the horrible part that they're playing their first

1164
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:10,720
Speaker 1: ever gig, you know, in Basildon. And it was that

1165
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 1: that day. So I called up that, you know, British Airways.

1166
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 1: I said, uh, you got room on you on your

1167
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:24,960
Speaker 1: Concorde flight at eleven you know, the said yeah. I

1168
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 1: said how much is it? Eight thousand dollars? So, you know,

1169
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:34,280
Speaker 1: I ran out to the airport. You know, by this

1170
01:18:34,439 --> 01:18:37,120
Speaker 1: time I already had an apartment. I don't think I

1171
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: even packed anything I was inside, but I had an

1172
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:44,720
Speaker 1: apartment in London by then. And uh I had an

1173
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:49,000
Speaker 1: assistant there who picked me up, Paul McNally, and we

1174
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 1: drove up to Basildon. I was what shape I was in.

1175
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:58,640
Speaker 1: But they were great and unlike a lot of the

1176
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 1: other bands of that era, you know, they could really play,

1177
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:08,800
Speaker 1: I mean, and uh so it was great songs, which

1178
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:12,800
Speaker 1: some of the other bands had too. But you know,

1179
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,920
Speaker 1: but with them. They had great musicianship, they were ready

1180
01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:22,040
Speaker 1: a great you know, lead singer. Then the latest you

1181
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:25,479
Speaker 1: know that the band just continued to flourish, you know.

1182
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:29,519
Speaker 1: And then I also had you know there the other band,

1183
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:34,560
Speaker 1: this breakaway bands you know like Yeazoo and uh so

1184
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:38,599
Speaker 1: um that was unsired too. Yes, yes, all all their

1185
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:41,280
Speaker 1: musical I saw Alison and hung with her when she

1186
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:43,880
Speaker 1: was playing in l A Last Fall still has the

1187
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:50,559
Speaker 1: pipes putting. I saw Alison. Yeah she's great, Yeah, really fantastic. Okay,

1188
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:55,840
Speaker 1: So that ultimately brings us to Madonna. So tell us

1189
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 1: that it's been told before, but we're here. Tell us

1190
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:03,720
Speaker 1: the story of signing Madonna. Um Mark Cayman's was a

1191
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: very talented young man and I got to know him

1192
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:13,240
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, uh, you know, I think he

1193
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:15,839
Speaker 1: may have done a little work for us. I don't remember,

1194
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 1: but he said, look, Seymour, I want to produce one

1195
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:23,719
Speaker 1: of your bands. I said, never. That will never happen

1196
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:27,640
Speaker 1: unless you go to the band and they want you

1197
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 1: as a producer. They picked their producers. I don't pick them,

1198
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 1: I said, but I'll tell you what I'll do because

1199
01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 1: I gotta you know, you got it. I'll give you

1200
01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 1: eighteen thousand dollars, three thousand dollars each to make six records,

1201
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 1: you know, over the next year, and hopefully we'll find

1202
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:55,200
Speaker 1: something one or two you know things. And you know Madonna.

1203
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 1: It was either the third or fourth. The other the

1204
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 1: others never brought me anything bad, but nothing good enough.

1205
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:10,200
Speaker 1: He brought me Madonna. And this was what Lucky Star. No, no, God,

1206
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:14,240
Speaker 1: now you made me forget everybody. Everybody. Everybody, no, no, everybody,

1207
01:21:14,479 --> 01:21:17,959
Speaker 1: not Lucky Star, no everybody. So he brought me everybody,

1208
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:21,920
Speaker 1: just a demo. I was in the hospital. I was

1209
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 1: hooked up to all the I had a thing called

1210
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:29,680
Speaker 1: sub acute endocarditis and the only cure for it then

1211
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: I hope it's not the same today. Was four weeks

1212
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 1: on antibiotics in the hospital. So h you know. So

1213
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:45,679
Speaker 1: um I heard the record and I said, oh my god,

1214
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 1: I think she's really got it, you know. I said, look,

1215
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:51,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be in the hospital for another two and

1216
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:56,479
Speaker 1: a half weeks. You should bring her here, and I'd

1217
01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:58,799
Speaker 1: like to get the deal done as soon as possible.

1218
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:03,639
Speaker 1: So five o'clock he calls me up. We're coming tonight

1219
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:06,639
Speaker 1: at eight o'clock, she wants to see you. So I said,

1220
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 1: oh my god, I hadn't shaved. I hadn't showered. God

1221
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 1: knows what I smelled like and everything. But I got

1222
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,120
Speaker 1: somebody to cut my hair and shave me. I got

1223
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:18,559
Speaker 1: them to unhooked me so I could take a shower.

1224
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 1: I got new bathrobe and everything and everything. When she

1225
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:26,640
Speaker 1: walked in, I could tell she didn't care, you know,

1226
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:32,559
Speaker 1: what I looked like or anything. She just wanted a shot.

1227
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 1: And I admired that so much, you know, and uh,

1228
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 1: I said, look, you know, I really do this. On

1229
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:46,360
Speaker 1: one song, I said, look, I want to make a

1230
01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 1: deal with you, and I want to make you deal

1231
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 1: you know that would give you what I think is

1232
01:22:54,640 --> 01:23:00,240
Speaker 1: quite a term to really break open. I said, why

1233
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:06,439
Speaker 1: don't we do three firm twelve inch record singles? I said,

1234
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 1: and because that's how I imagined everybody, And uh, you know,

1235
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:15,200
Speaker 1: and then an option to pick up a long term

1236
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:19,160
Speaker 1: contract for albums. She said, great, you know, and all that,

1237
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:22,720
Speaker 1: and you know and and and all of that, and

1238
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:28,160
Speaker 1: you know that that was it, you know, But I

1239
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:35,400
Speaker 1: I saw something in her, a real, real determination, you know. Um,

1240
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 1: you know, I you know, I saw that in a

1241
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:42,639
Speaker 1: lot of women. I mean Chrissy Hind. The first time

1242
01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 1: I saw her, you know, I wanted to sign them

1243
01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:48,599
Speaker 1: right in the club. I signed them the next day.

1244
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:52,040
Speaker 1: You know. Now with Chrissy Hind, did she have a

1245
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: deal in the rest of the world. No, I signed

1246
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:57,599
Speaker 1: up for the world that pretended. So you're saying, Okay,

1247
01:23:57,640 --> 01:24:00,519
Speaker 1: you're talking about other women who you felt something with. Yeah,

1248
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 1: she is. She is dynamic, you know. I mean not

1249
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:09,040
Speaker 1: that the men weren't, but but she was incredible, you know.

1250
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:17,320
Speaker 1: And you know, but you know so uh, I don't

1251
01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:19,880
Speaker 1: know where were we know. I'm just saying you were

1252
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 1: mentioning other women that you saw me. D well k D.

1253
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 1: Another story I had Katie Katie Lang. Yeah, so m

1254
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 1: somebody sent me a record U of hers, you know,

1255
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:39,200
Speaker 1: because they knew I like country music. Uh, you know,

1256
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:43,200
Speaker 1: a manager and what not. Her manager seem what, You're

1257
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:47,760
Speaker 1: gonna love this record, and I did, and I loved

1258
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:51,519
Speaker 1: it so much. I called her and she said, I'm

1259
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:56,559
Speaker 1: playing this weekend, you know, and I said, well, I'll

1260
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 1: come up and see you. So I flew up to

1261
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:03,479
Speaker 1: Albert uh and saw her perform. She took me to

1262
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 1: the rodeo and uh, you know, and uh, we had

1263
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:10,640
Speaker 1: a great time with her and came back you know

1264
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:16,040
Speaker 1: with the deal. She was unbelievable. She is unbelievable. I mean,

1265
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:22,679
Speaker 1: she's just a great, great singer. So going back to MacDonald,

1266
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:26,600
Speaker 1: the first record ultimately hits first album and you have Borderline,

1267
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 1: you have Lucky starting out comes time to do the

1268
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:31,680
Speaker 1: second record? Yes, how he ends on? Are you at

1269
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:35,400
Speaker 1: that point? Well, I let her pick the producer, you know.

1270
01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:40,080
Speaker 1: I mean by that time, you know, I think Freddie

1271
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:44,280
Speaker 1: was involved already. I think the man was involved. And

1272
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:48,280
Speaker 1: uh you know, okay, well the second album you get

1273
01:25:48,360 --> 01:25:51,519
Speaker 1: it and they make the videos and it's like a

1274
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:55,479
Speaker 1: virgin and material. Girl. Do you see this is going

1275
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 1: to be the biggest thing in the world. I did, Yes,

1276
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:02,560
Speaker 1: at that point. To what degree do you have a

1277
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:05,720
Speaker 1: continuing relationship with her? Does she pushed you aside? No, No,

1278
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:08,720
Speaker 1: she didn't push me, as I had a long term

1279
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:15,559
Speaker 1: contract with um. You know, but by that time, I mean,

1280
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:18,320
Speaker 1: I left it in my hands. It was and to

1281
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:22,240
Speaker 1: be honest, the better in my hands. Um, you know,

1282
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:29,360
Speaker 1: I mean, she's one of a kind, you know. Okay,

1283
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little business here. Traditionally in that era,

1284
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:35,040
Speaker 1: if you had a hit record or two, you'd go

1285
01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:38,080
Speaker 1: back to the label and we negotiate your deal. Did

1286
01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 1: she do that? Um? Yeah, she did, you know. And

1287
01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:46,479
Speaker 1: I I had introduced that to my lawyer, Alan Goverman,

1288
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 1: and he, you know, did a hell of a good job,

1289
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:54,840
Speaker 1: you know, getting her a new deal. Well to give

1290
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 1: her more usually get to give or give to get.

1291
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:04,559
Speaker 1: So what did you get returned for a higher royalty ray? Uh? Nothing? Okay,

1292
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 1: So well I think no, I didn't say nothing. I

1293
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:12,360
Speaker 1: think we've got additional album. Yeah, that's what I mean usually. Okay.

1294
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 1: So your success to what degree? Because we've only covered

1295
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:23,160
Speaker 1: it tangentially, but you were notorious for travel and going

1296
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:27,760
Speaker 1: to all these locations absolutely, and to what part of

1297
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:30,080
Speaker 1: your success you believe is? What degree do you attribute

1298
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:35,360
Speaker 1: your success to that? Oh? Great deal? I mean you

1299
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:38,920
Speaker 1: know I would go down to Australia. I signed bands

1300
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 1: there and I signed you know, right now, what I'm

1301
01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 1: concentrating on, because I feel it coming very strong is

1302
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:53,639
Speaker 1: India and China. And I'll be in India in August.

1303
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:57,080
Speaker 1: Um and I go I got into her about it

1304
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:02,360
Speaker 1: every year. Um, you know, China is really coming up.

1305
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:05,479
Speaker 1: Uh there are these people there that are the biggest

1306
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:10,360
Speaker 1: promoters in India, Modern Sky, and I helped put them

1307
01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 1: together with Liverpool Sound City, which is now with their

1308
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 1: you know infusion into the Liverpool is probably the biggest

1309
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:29,560
Speaker 1: English um you know, uh venue for new talent. I

1310
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:33,120
Speaker 1: was just you know there a few weeks ago, about

1311
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:39,479
Speaker 1: a month and Africo and um, you know, so, I

1312
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:45,000
Speaker 1: mean I haven't been to Indonesia yet, but there's a

1313
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:48,720
Speaker 1: lot of good music coming from there, the Philippines and

1314
01:28:48,840 --> 01:28:51,639
Speaker 1: look at all the boy bands coming out of Korea.

1315
01:28:52,240 --> 01:28:55,479
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, it's gonna be global. It's gonna be

1316
01:28:56,000 --> 01:28:58,160
Speaker 1: really really global. Okay. So there's been a lot of

1317
01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:01,360
Speaker 1: changes in the business since you start it. First of all,

1318
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:05,000
Speaker 1: all the majors were bought by giant corporations. There was

1319
01:29:05,120 --> 01:29:09,880
Speaker 1: branch distribution, there was the Beatles, there was MTV, the Internet.

1320
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:12,360
Speaker 1: What do you think about the state of the business

1321
01:29:12,439 --> 01:29:16,639
Speaker 1: today compared to how it was previously, Well, the business

1322
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 1: always changes. I mean even before that, I mean, you know,

1323
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:26,920
Speaker 1: I mean, record companies felt that when radio came in,

1324
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:29,760
Speaker 1: it would be the end of the record business. People

1325
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:32,519
Speaker 1: could listen to the records on the radio for nothing,

1326
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:37,160
Speaker 1: and it wound up helping. Um, you know, so how

1327
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:41,840
Speaker 1: wrong were they then? I wasn't even born. Um, you know,

1328
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:46,040
Speaker 1: and uh, you know a lot lots of things. There

1329
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:48,960
Speaker 1: will always be a music business, how it's going to

1330
01:29:49,160 --> 01:29:53,320
Speaker 1: change and everything. Look, there was actually a music business

1331
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:56,120
Speaker 1: four hundred years ago, but it was only for the

1332
01:29:56,400 --> 01:30:00,280
Speaker 1: very very rich and royalty and the rocks as we

1333
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 1: Bach and Beethoven, Tarkovsky, Uh, you know, and and and

1334
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:11,160
Speaker 1: and nothing. America didn't exist, very little going on in

1335
01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:16,360
Speaker 1: the UK. It was basically you know St. Petersburg and

1336
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:22,519
Speaker 1: Vienna and uh you know, Berlin and places like that.

1337
01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 1: You know, and you know they will always be a

1338
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:32,800
Speaker 1: music business. And we can't live with that. I can't

1339
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:37,240
Speaker 1: imagine living without music. Did you play music? How frequently?

1340
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:42,840
Speaker 1: Less now than before? You know, but um, but still

1341
01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:47,360
Speaker 1: quite a bit. And so one thing one knows by

1342
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:50,639
Speaker 1: hanging out with you in regular life, you're constantly breaking out.

1343
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 1: It's a song. So what are your favorite songs? Her

1344
01:30:54,320 --> 01:31:02,840
Speaker 1: favorite records? Well, uh, my favorite song, you know is

1345
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:08,360
Speaker 1: a song that really um you wouldn't believe it, but

1346
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:14,200
Speaker 1: I'll tell you is La Massas Um I mean, believe

1347
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:16,679
Speaker 1: it or not. First of all, it's from my favorite movie,

1348
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:20,519
Speaker 1: uh you know, Humphrey Bogart, you know. But the thing

1349
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:24,400
Speaker 1: is why I like it so much is because it

1350
01:31:24,600 --> 01:31:29,560
Speaker 1: was written two years after the start of the French Revolution,

1351
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:33,600
Speaker 1: and it was a battle cry during the war. The

1352
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 1: Star Spangled Banner was written at the very end of

1353
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:39,000
Speaker 1: the War of eighteen twelve, you know. And it's it's

1354
01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:41,439
Speaker 1: not much of a melody anyway. I mean, it's an

1355
01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:46,759
Speaker 1: old English beard drinking melody. Um. You know, God saved

1356
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:48,720
Speaker 1: the Queen is all right for the queen, you know.

1357
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:52,560
Speaker 1: But but La massa as Is is a song that

1358
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, sends chills up and down my spine, I mean,

1359
01:31:56,240 --> 01:31:59,559
Speaker 1: and uh, I mean I I you know. I mean

1360
01:32:00,240 --> 01:32:02,920
Speaker 1: if if you want to know what my favorite music is,

1361
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's some of it is Sia music,

1362
01:32:07,720 --> 01:32:10,280
Speaker 1: but a lot of it people like Little Richard and

1363
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:14,519
Speaker 1: Fats Domino and Hank Williams and uh you know, Carl

1364
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:18,879
Speaker 1: Smith and Farren Young. I love that era of country

1365
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 1: and you know, rhythm and blues. It's the music that

1366
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:24,240
Speaker 1: that I grew up and and they do up the

1367
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:29,600
Speaker 1: you know, hots hots of Stone and uh you know

1368
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:33,840
Speaker 1: by Otis Williams and the Charms and uh shaboom by

1369
01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:38,800
Speaker 1: the Chords, um jeeb had of Crows, stuff like that.

1370
01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:42,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it never goes away, you know. And I

1371
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:44,679
Speaker 1: you know, I love a lot of my own sire

1372
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:48,519
Speaker 1: records too very much, so you know, and you know,

1373
01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:52,720
Speaker 1: but you know, I have to ask, because I know

1374
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 1: you're heavily involved. What's your take on the Rock and

1375
01:32:55,400 --> 01:33:09,560
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame? Um? Well, um, it was a

1376
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:13,680
Speaker 1: lot better when I'm at hear it again and and

1377
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:19,679
Speaker 1: Jerry Wexler and those people were involved than it is today.

1378
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:25,360
Speaker 1: But you know, that's all I will say about it. Now. Well,

1379
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:30,400
Speaker 1: I guess, and I'm still involved. My viewpoint was, you know,

1380
01:33:30,479 --> 01:33:32,880
Speaker 1: it's called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and

1381
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:35,240
Speaker 1: on some level, I know this doesn't make business sense,

1382
01:33:35,479 --> 01:33:37,160
Speaker 1: but at some point they should have closed the doors.

1383
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:40,880
Speaker 1: There are certainly people who are unjustly excluded, but now

1384
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:43,400
Speaker 1: it seems to a degree they're inducting people just to

1385
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:46,560
Speaker 1: induct people, and they're not of the stature of the

1386
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:51,040
Speaker 1: people who came previously. Well, I don't know who you're

1387
01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 1: referring to, but it might be because you're getting older

1388
01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:59,040
Speaker 1: and other people appreciate the artist set of being inducted

1389
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:04,240
Speaker 1: a lot more. Um, I don't know. I mean I

1390
01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:09,680
Speaker 1: think there are people who have been omitted, and you know,

1391
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:14,360
Speaker 1: I'm very sad and upset about it. I mean, there's

1392
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:21,679
Speaker 1: a category for um, you know, musicians, and they haven't

1393
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:26,559
Speaker 1: inducted the greatest side man of all, Glenn Campbell because

1394
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:28,719
Speaker 1: they don't think of him as a rock and roller.

1395
01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:33,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so it's so fucking ridiculous. I mean

1396
01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:35,960
Speaker 1: I have to say that. I mean you can that that.

1397
01:34:36,160 --> 01:34:40,559
Speaker 1: I just don't understand it. But and there were, there are,

1398
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:44,759
Speaker 1: there are other things. Who else, give your memory serves

1399
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:51,320
Speaker 1: you is unjustly excluded. Oh god, I'd have to we'd

1400
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:54,559
Speaker 1: have to do another broadcast because you know, the number

1401
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:56,320
Speaker 1: of these there were, there were quite there are quite

1402
01:34:56,600 --> 01:35:01,000
Speaker 1: there are quite a few, I mean, you know, quite

1403
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:03,679
Speaker 1: a few of the old But you probably wouldn't agree

1404
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:06,360
Speaker 1: with me on these people. Quite a few of the

1405
01:35:06,479 --> 01:35:11,080
Speaker 1: old R and B groups I think, Uh, I'm not

1406
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:15,040
Speaker 1: a're not in yet that I don't I don't remember

1407
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:17,559
Speaker 1: exactly which ones, but quite a few of the early

1408
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:22,560
Speaker 1: R and B groups that really broke ground, um, you know,

1409
01:35:23,200 --> 01:35:28,280
Speaker 1: in in bringing rhythm and blues into the mainstream of

1410
01:35:28,400 --> 01:35:31,040
Speaker 1: pop and rock and roll. I think they should have

1411
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:36,840
Speaker 1: more country artists inducted, you know, um, but I don't

1412
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:42,080
Speaker 1: think they realize. Um Elvis Presley, who of course was

1413
01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:46,360
Speaker 1: inducted the first year. But Elvis Presley's first six records

1414
01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:50,640
Speaker 1: only hit the country trots. They were on sun and

1415
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:56,479
Speaker 1: you know and all that. You know, rock and roll

1416
01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:03,000
Speaker 1: was really country, rhythm and blues and blues to start with.

1417
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:06,400
Speaker 1: And now look, I'm glad. I mean, music is a

1418
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:10,439
Speaker 1: river and lots of new things flow into it and

1419
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:13,120
Speaker 1: some of them get picked up as as as as

1420
01:36:13,360 --> 01:36:17,600
Speaker 1: as as you know, rock and roll and um, you know,

1421
01:36:18,040 --> 01:36:22,679
Speaker 1: I think that, but I think a lot of people

1422
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:25,639
Speaker 1: got left behind. I'll tell you another person who should

1423
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:30,080
Speaker 1: be inducted, uh, and isn't is Ivory Joel Hunter. Do

1424
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:33,360
Speaker 1: do you ever hear of him? Ivory Jael Hunted to

1425
01:36:33,479 --> 01:36:39,400
Speaker 1: me was like the cross between, um, you know, rhythm

1426
01:36:39,479 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 1: and blues and country. He he was a rhythm and

1427
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:46,840
Speaker 1: blues artist, but the songs he wrote, you know, uh,

1428
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:50,439
Speaker 1: I almost lost my mind and things like that. Since

1429
01:36:50,520 --> 01:36:53,560
Speaker 1: I met you, baby, these were huge hits in the

1430
01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:57,360
Speaker 1: country field. I mean, the only record I can really

1431
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 1: listen to and enjoy by Pat boon is his version

1432
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:05,719
Speaker 1: of I Almost Lost my Mind, where he almost cries

1433
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:10,240
Speaker 1: at the edge of the song. I mean nothing against

1434
01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:13,559
Speaker 1: Pat Pool, you know, but anyway, I'm sorry, I get

1435
01:37:13,600 --> 01:37:17,880
Speaker 1: a little emotional. Iveraghan definitely belongs in the Rock and

1436
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:20,240
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame, and it's a crime, you know,

1437
01:37:20,439 --> 01:37:23,639
Speaker 1: But you know, I have a lot less to say.

1438
01:37:23,680 --> 01:37:27,400
Speaker 1: I was. I was one of the founders. Um it

1439
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:33,759
Speaker 1: was on it myself. Jerry wexle Um Alan Grubman got involved,

1440
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:39,120
Speaker 1: not musically. I mean, if he was involved, Jerry Vale

1441
01:37:39,160 --> 01:37:43,599
Speaker 1: would be inducted. But the thing is that I note,

1442
01:37:43,720 --> 01:37:48,840
Speaker 1: you know, but uh, you know, it's just, you know,

1443
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:55,800
Speaker 1: it's you know, I think that that they should. You

1444
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:58,240
Speaker 1: know that there were a lot of the older guys

1445
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:01,560
Speaker 1: that were on the the nominating committee that are no

1446
01:38:01,720 --> 01:38:07,000
Speaker 1: longer there, like Bob Merrilis and Joe McEwen, who are brilliant,

1447
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, it's just it's just a shame.

1448
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:19,320
Speaker 1: But okay, and tangentile to that is rock dead. It

1449
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:23,200
Speaker 1: all depends. I mean, let's let's use the paradigm. People

1450
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:25,519
Speaker 1: would say jazz is that jazz had a peek in

1451
01:38:25,560 --> 01:38:28,400
Speaker 1: the thirties and forties. There's certainly jazz now, but it's

1452
01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:31,960
Speaker 1: very small percentage of the overall listening. So is the

1453
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:36,320
Speaker 1: same thing going to happen to rock? Well, I hope not.

1454
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:42,040
Speaker 1: But I think that they'll always be room for rock

1455
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:44,639
Speaker 1: and roll. They'll always be room, you know, for jazz.

1456
01:38:44,760 --> 01:38:48,000
Speaker 1: I mean, look, first all, Nina Simone was inducted in

1457
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:50,160
Speaker 1: the Rock and Roll Hall of Family as Yes, she's

1458
01:38:50,160 --> 01:38:55,760
Speaker 1: a jazz singer, you know, and you know, um, and

1459
01:38:56,360 --> 01:38:58,679
Speaker 1: I think she got you know, one of the largest

1460
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:04,280
Speaker 1: percentage of votes. I I don't recall, but you know,

1461
01:39:04,439 --> 01:39:11,040
Speaker 1: you just um, I think I think there's gonna always

1462
01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:14,560
Speaker 1: be room for rock. I mean, it's a it's like

1463
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:18,000
Speaker 1: a river, you know, and everything keeps flowing into it,

1464
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:20,880
Speaker 1: and a lot of it stems from rock and roll.

1465
01:39:21,200 --> 01:39:23,320
Speaker 1: You know, rock and roll is still hanging in there.

1466
01:39:24,439 --> 01:39:31,920
Speaker 1: Best show you ever saw, uh, probably the Alan Freed

1467
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:34,640
Speaker 1: shows that I would go to as a kid in

1468
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:39,680
Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Paramount or the Brooklyn Fox. Um. They had like,

1469
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:44,559
Speaker 1: you know, more than a dozen artists. You had Chuck Berry,

1470
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:50,120
Speaker 1: Frankie Lyman and the teenager Laverne Baker, all those great,

1471
01:39:50,200 --> 01:39:55,400
Speaker 1: great artists. Jackie Wilson, Um, you know, I would, uh,

1472
01:39:56,040 --> 01:39:59,759
Speaker 1: I would pack a sandwich and sit through all three shows,

1473
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:02,799
Speaker 1: you know, and you had it. There was movies in between,

1474
01:40:03,080 --> 01:40:07,960
Speaker 1: Alan Freed movies which were not very good. But you know,

1475
01:40:08,280 --> 01:40:13,760
Speaker 1: I think that to me, Alan Freed was very, very

1476
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:18,600
Speaker 1: very important in rock and roll. And you know, he

1477
01:40:20,320 --> 01:40:23,320
Speaker 1: sadly is not that remembered. He's in the Rock and

1478
01:40:23,439 --> 01:40:27,280
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame though, But you know, but uh,

1479
01:40:27,640 --> 01:40:32,840
Speaker 1: you know, so we've only scratched the surface of your

1480
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:35,040
Speaker 1: career and your insights. But before I let you go

1481
01:40:35,160 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 1: anything else that you need to say, no, I'm just

1482
01:40:38,240 --> 01:40:41,560
Speaker 1: I'm very honored that you you know, you chose me

1483
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:44,559
Speaker 1: for a podcast, and you're a legend. I mean especially

1484
01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:47,760
Speaker 1: we're having this conversation of one of the a lot

1485
01:40:47,800 --> 01:40:50,519
Speaker 1: of people who have been successful just been business people,

1486
01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:53,840
Speaker 1: especially in the latter decades, as opposed to music fans.

1487
01:40:53,920 --> 01:40:56,320
Speaker 1: There would be in another business working for music. But

1488
01:40:56,439 --> 01:40:59,320
Speaker 1: you're passionate about music and had a sense of history

1489
01:41:00,200 --> 01:41:04,720
Speaker 1: that you know is being lost or unknown by future generations.

1490
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:08,680
Speaker 1: You're a real thumb of knowledge. I think there are

1491
01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:11,200
Speaker 1: other people like me coming up, I would hope, So

1492
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:16,880
Speaker 1: I don't you know. I, um, you know, I would

1493
01:41:16,920 --> 01:41:20,200
Speaker 1: hope there'll be people to replace me, and uh, I

1494
01:41:20,360 --> 01:41:23,880
Speaker 1: think there will be. I'm optimistic about that. Well, I'm

1495
01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:26,360
Speaker 1: not sure there'll be somebody the champion ivery Joe Hunter,

1496
01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:29,280
Speaker 1: but we both know. You drop a needle on a record,

1497
01:41:29,360 --> 01:41:33,679
Speaker 1: doesn't matter whatever if it's great, you hear it. Yeah, Look,

1498
01:41:34,120 --> 01:41:38,840
Speaker 1: I mean there was there was great music before my time,

1499
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:42,120
Speaker 1: great music in the twenties. You had all those great

1500
01:41:42,200 --> 01:41:47,800
Speaker 1: songwriters back in the twenties, you know. I mean, look

1501
01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:50,760
Speaker 1: when I'm in England sometimes I go see Gilbert and

1502
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:55,000
Speaker 1: Sullivan shows. You know, I mean what melodies we say, Elee,

1503
01:41:55,160 --> 01:42:00,680
Speaker 1: Ocean Blue, you know, incredible? You know. Um, I like

1504
01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:04,479
Speaker 1: some of the classics. I'm not I'm I wish I

1505
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:09,479
Speaker 1: knew I knew them better, but but I I certainly

1506
01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, um, I mean musicals today even, I mean

1507
01:42:14,479 --> 01:42:17,880
Speaker 1: thankfully that some of them are being very successful now.

1508
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:24,320
Speaker 1: But you know, there's there's still nothing that to compete

1509
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:27,000
Speaker 1: with Oklahoma or on My Fair Lady and things like

1510
01:42:27,160 --> 01:42:30,280
Speaker 1: that in my book. But maybe that's because I'm getting

1511
01:42:30,640 --> 01:42:32,320
Speaker 1: I grew up on that hour being younger than you.

1512
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:35,680
Speaker 1: There the show too is being played in the house incessantly.

1513
01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:39,320
Speaker 1: That was the first music that huldn't be well. Your

1514
01:42:39,360 --> 01:42:43,280
Speaker 1: parents had good he is They were just touch My

1515
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:47,600
Speaker 1: parents met, my father picked my mother up hitchhiking on

1516
01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:51,840
Speaker 1: the way home from Tanglewood. Oh the music connection and

1517
01:42:51,920 --> 01:42:55,000
Speaker 1: my parents could never say not to hitchhike. And on

1518
01:42:55,160 --> 01:42:58,160
Speaker 1: that note, it's been wonderful. Thank you so much for

1519
01:42:58,240 --> 01:43:01,840
Speaker 1: being a podcast. Thank you. Until next time, it's Bob

1520
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:10,519
Speaker 1: left Sets. Here was seymour Stein on my podcast. Wow,

1521
01:43:10,560 --> 01:43:13,200
Speaker 1: it was truly amazing to spend time with seymour Stein.

1522
01:43:13,840 --> 01:43:16,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Bob

1523
01:43:16,240 --> 01:43:20,680
Speaker 1: left Sets podcast, produced by tune In. As always, I'm

1524
01:43:20,760 --> 01:43:24,080
Speaker 1: fascinating and interested in your feedback. You can email me

1525
01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:27,040
Speaker 1: at Bob at left stats dot com. Until next time,

1526
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:47,080
Speaker 1: I'm Bob left Sets me reas don't know exactly