WEBVTT - Legacy 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:14.440 Diversion podcasts where people who actually, you know nothing about 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.960 the game I had before. I didn't know it's how 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:22.279 to write paragraphs, and uh, I can take criticism. That 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:24.520 just makes you work hard and it makes me prove 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:28.680 them wrong. Probably didn't care and they're right on the one. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.120 I'm saying, hey, all the hard working I can do it, 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:32.479 and I'm approve to you, but I can do it. 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.560 And that's how that was. I wasn't upset, UH wasn't 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:38.680 hurt or anything like that. Just came back to say, man, 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:43.480 I prove you wrong. That'sh it comes to win, goes 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:45.800 to my memory bank, it goes to my motivation bank, 0:00:45.840 --> 0:01:02.639 it comes out of the other head. Over the previous 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.280 eleven episodes of this series, we've been exposed to the 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:10.640 many different sides of the adolescent Kobe Bryant, the young Mamba. 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:15.039 We saw his confidence, and we saw his insecurities. We 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.959 saw the loyalty and love he had for his friends 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.200 and family, and we saw his willingness to let people 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.640 he was close to drift out of his life. We 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.039 saw his raw honesty, and we saw his ability to 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:32.759 manipulate situations and people to his advantage to keep secrets 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.119 to get what he wanted. We've got a good long 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.840 look at a complex kid who became a complex man. 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:44.560 The clip that opened this episode was, of course, from 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.680 one of Kobe's interviews with Jeremy Treaty. It was from 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.160 early in his senior year at Lower Merit. Jeremy had 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.559 asked him what he thought of the sportswriters and talk 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.600 radio hosts who thought he shouldn't skip college, shouldn't turn pro, 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.480 and probably wouldn't make it in the NBA. You asked 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.200 Kobe a question like that, you're going to get another 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.480 side of him. In return, you're going to get defiance. 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.520 And that side of Kobe, his defiance side is one 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.520 that his teammates, his coaches, the media, and plenty of 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.600 other people saw. Throughout his career with the Lakers. Kobe 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.080 was not an approachable guy for most of those twenty years. 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.840 He was a workaholic and often very much a loner 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:30.720 and entity unto himself. He wasn't accepting much advice from 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:32.960 his elders and his peers, and it took him a 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.160 while to start dishing any out. This was kind of 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:40.240 what the Mamba mentality was all about. Imagine you wake 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.120 up at three, you train at four, you go four 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.640 to six, come home, breakfast, relax. So so now you're 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.480 back at it again, nine to eleven. Relax, And now 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:50.359 it's done. Your back at it again to the four. 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.480 And how you're back at it again seven to nine. 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.880 Look how much more training I have done by simply 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.000 starting at four? All right? And so now you do that. 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:03.040 And as the years go on, the separation that you 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:06.359 have with your competitors, in your peers just grows larger 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.360 and larger and larger and larger. But once Kobe reached 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.680 the last few seasons of his career and moved into retirement, 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.200 something about him seemed to change. He wrote a best 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.880 selling book, he won an oscar, He embraced his role 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:23.280 as a girl dad, and he morphed into the wise 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.920 old owl of the NBA. Players sought him out for 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.679 counsel and insight, and more importantly, he was open to 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:35.400 giving it. This was not the Kobe we knew. We're 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.040 at the second anniversary of his death, and one of 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.200 the factors that made it more tragic was that Kobe 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.160 appeared to be moving in this new direction in his life. 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.240 There seemed to be more ahead for him. So in 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.640 this bonus episode, we wanted to explore how that change 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:53.920 might have come about and what this new Kobe was like, 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:57.080 and we wanted to do it through the perspectives of 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:01.080 three current NBA players, Guys who could explain what it 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:05.000 was like to play against or with Kobe, to talk 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.400 to Kobe, to interact with Kobe in those years just 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.760 before his death. Guys who could express the meaning of 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.760 Kobe's legacy in a way most of us never could. 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.560 We'll start out with someone familiar to basketball fans every year. 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:24.719 Fakes put up that's God fine text on the second 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:32.320 relating he'll still time fix a two point Yeah, so tact. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:38.080 Carmelo Anthony, future Hall of Famer, the ninth leading scorer 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:41.479 in NBA history, is in his nineteenth season in the 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.640 league and his first with the Lakers. I didn't interview Mellow, 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.599 but two guys who have covered the NBA much longer 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.880 and much better than I have, Jack McCallum and j A. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:56.159 Adonde did. They talked to him for season two of 0:04:56.200 --> 0:05:00.960 another diversion podcast, the Dream Team Tapes. Mellow and Kobe 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.520 were teammates for the US at the two thousand eight 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:07.800 and two thousand twelve Summer Olympics. The other two players 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.640 are teammates on Kobe's hometown team, the Philadelphia seventy six Ers. 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:16.400 I spoke with Seth Curry and Tobias Harris about their 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:19.360 vantage points on Kobe, what it was like to grow 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:21.720 up watching him, and what it was like to meet 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.559 him and play against him, and more important, as Seth 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.440 Curry says here, we spoke about why Kobe's presence and 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:33.920 spirit are still felt throughout the NBA, the guys who 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:35.560 are in the league and of guys who grew up 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.520 watching I played. We grew up on him, um from 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.560 their little kids to play twenty years in the league 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:45.279 or whatever. So that's twenty years of our start learning 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.440 the game, first watching the game. And we kind of 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.320 saw his whole career as a youngster, his time with 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:56.360 the Lakers, his whole career with the Lakers, ups and downs, tragedy, 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.880 triumphs the way, but became a lout of adversity. So uh, 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.240 I'm saying he's just one of the greatest ever do it, 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.360 and he did it his own way, So I mean 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:18.480 that respect level was present across the league. I'm Mike 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:22.960 Sealski and from Diversion Podcasts, This is I am cool, 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:32.600 I love, Why sweet? Why Steve create myself? Exac signs 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:39.000 up and create yourself. Say nice, now, go on create yourself. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.000 You gotta line for the great minds. But we ain't 0:06:42.040 --> 0:07:00.160 lyne tell them next any time. Episode twelve, Legacy through 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.080 Carmelo Anthony's first five years in the NBA, he and 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.880 Kobe Bryant weren't really friends. They might text now and again, 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:11.280 but they weren't what anyone would call close and mellow. Well, 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.360 his perception of Kobe was one that was pretty common 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.400 around the league. Here he is again talking to Jack 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.360 and j A like he, I mean, he don't give 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.120 a damn Like he don't got no friends. He just 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.600 all about basketball. He just locked in seven like that's 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.440 who he was. It wasn't my perception, was his reality 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.040 like that was everybody knew that. You know, Kobe ain't 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:34.880 trying to be cool with nobody, like you don't want 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:39.760 no friends, like he focused on being great in basketball 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.880 and training and keeping like he was he always trying 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:44.360 to figure out a way how to get one up 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.320 on somebody and try to get the age. So we 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.400 knew that I knew that, but then once we got 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.920 in OH eight, that was when our our relationship really 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.640 took off. When Mellow says OH eight, he's talking about 0:07:57.640 --> 0:07:59.960 the run up to the two thousand eight Summer Olympics 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.400 in Beijing. The US men's basketball team at those games 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.560 was known as the Redeemed Team because the US had 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.320 finished sixth at the two thousand two World Championships and 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.400 had struggled to take bronze at the OH four Games 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:18.760 in Athens. The Redeemed Team had Kobe and Mellow and 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:23.160 Lebron James and Dwyane Wade, and the team's leadership corps 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:26.000 wanted to make a few things clear to Kobe before 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.440 they embarked on their quest to win the gold medal. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.360 He couldn't be selfish, He couldn't be a gunner. He 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.760 had the sacrifice for the good of the team. Because 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.040 of the pree noting that everybody had about Kobe him 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.160 coming on the team, everybody expected that him to bring 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.080 what he was doing with the Lakers, and you know, 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.000 everybody just thought that's what he was going to do 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.360 coming on that team, and as leaders on the team 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.719 that was approached before that, you know, it was sit 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.560 down with cold like listen, bro, like, we don't need 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.760 the Laker Kobe, Like you know what I'm saying, like 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.720 we we need we need you to be who you are. 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.400 But you're playing with you know, you're playing with the best. 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.560 Now you're playing the best of the best. So I 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:10.920 think at first it took him a little while for 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:19.640 for him to adjust to that. Once he did, though, 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.800 Kobe was the best player on that Olympic team, and 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.120 he didn't have to shoot all the time to do it. 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.520 Ryan gets its side, kicks it out the anthonies, but 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.040 shooting wild backs off the time. He was a tone 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.920 center with his work, ethic and defense, and by opening 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.800 himself up to his teammate's advice and suggestions, Kobe expanded 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.440 his vision for the kind of player and the kind 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.800 of person he could be. Here's mellow again, the way 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:50.040 that he bought himself to become so comfortable with us, 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.160 you know, and the players on the team, and you know, 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.840 really understanding like okay, like this is a band of 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:57.840 brothers here, Like you know, in the Lakers, he was, 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.040 he was who he was, he would you know, he 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.040 come in early in the morning, he come in late 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.280 at night and he's working and he's doing his thing, 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.080 and he's out when people coming there. There it was 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:09.679 you know, he never let nobody in there with us 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:11.880 like he was. You know, he was very you know, 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:18.040 secretive and stand office with us. Like you saw him 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.960 like slowly letting his guard down, even on the buses, 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.560 you know, even going to the Olympic village and going 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:30.200 to other sporting events, like you saw the guard coming 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:34.440 coming down. You saw those bricks falling, and he was 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:38.360 fully immersed in and what we was doing and being 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.880 there with us, and that was something that was like Okay, 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:46.000 he finally like okay, we got the last brick down, 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:48.360 like the wall is down, Like it's down, y'all. This 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:50.640 damn we did a good job. Like it was you 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.720 almost felt like a sense of victory seeing him laugh 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.920 the way that he was laughing and you know, talking 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:02.240 and communicating and stories and just like you, we felt that. 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:05.840 I don't think it's a coincidence that Kobe won his 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:09.720 final two NBA championships with the Lakers in two thousand 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.640 nine and two thousand ten right after Beijing. And I 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.440 don't think it's a coincidence that the changes we saw 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:20.240 in Kobe began in earnest around then too. I really 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.560 see the two thousand eight Olympics as a turning point 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.000 in his career and in his life. The Kobe he 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.920 became during the O eight Games was the Kobe he 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.720 remained until the day he died. I think we gave 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:37.360 him another egge. We gave him another level of sharpness 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.240 because he knew like how sharp we were on that team, 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.000 you know, from us getting up early in the morning 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.040 and training and working out and talking and can you 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.920 watch the film and and you know, having fun too. 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.920 But he saw the sharpness that we had on that 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:54.640 team everybody and and what what I used to say 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:59.360 was iron sharpness iron and he understood that. He understands 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.760 that language. And he also understand something that we submit him. 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.920 We've always say, lions don't hang with nobody other than lions. Right. 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.960 That's a gigantic shot, great played by Kobe Bryant. I 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:16.640 thought if you could controllers another three pubby Big Plubbly 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:21.680 buy from Balti the fil Paul flows in ahead, Koby 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:49.560 bin SoRs just about supper Fritish. Hey, this is Mike Sealsky, 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.400 host and writer of I Am Kobe, This podcast project 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.920 came out of my work on a related book called 0:12:56.160 --> 0:13:00.160 The Rise Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality. If 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.000 you want to explore other parts of Kobe's story, check 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.800 out The Rise. It's not just a book version of 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.840 the podcast. I dive deeper into some of the topics 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.440 covered in this series, and even some that we don't 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:15.559 cover at all. Kobe's upbringing, his family, his identity, his 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.520 effect on his friends and teammates, his journey into the 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.200 n b A, and his earliest days with the Lakers. 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.439 The Rise Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality is 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:29.080 out now. Just head over to the Rise of Kobe 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.240 book dot com and you can buy it from any 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:36.280 of your favorite retailers. That's The Rise of Kobe book 0:13:36.640 --> 0:14:01.040 dot Com. Thanks. So, how did the characteristics of this 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.800 new Kobe manifest themselves? What was he like and how 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.360 is he different? In those latter years of his career 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.280 and during his retirement. We heard from Carmelo about how 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.120 and why Kobe changed, but he had known Kobe for 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.960 a long time. I wanted to talk to a couple 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.600 of players who didn't meet Kobe until much later, who 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:25.120 grew up idolizing him. Seth Curry and Tobias Harris of 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.840 the Sixers fit that description, and each had an interesting 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.880 or unique connection to Kobe. Seth is the son of 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:37.200 longtime NBA sharpshooter Del Curry and of course the younger 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:42.800 brother of superstar Steph Curry. Dell played against Kobe, Steph 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:47.280 played against Kobe, and Seth played against Kobe. Here's Seth. 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.480 Did you see the amount of half for Kobe? Long 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.800 devity and what he means? What he means to the game. 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:59.120 Remember growing up as a kid, um my dad playing 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.960 against him back is one of my favorite players back then, 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:06.120 the number eight. I just remember one cool let my 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:07.840 dad played at one time. He came back in the 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:11.360 d of the night from l a Um and he 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.440 brought me signs during the end his games shot from 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.160 that game, so I still have him to this day, 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:20.040 which is pretty cool. Just before the two thousand fifteen 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:24.440 sixteen season, Kobe's last in the NBA, Seth was playing 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.680 for the Sacramento Kings, who held a couple of preseason 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.120 games in Las Vegas. One night, while he was there, 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:33.720 Seth and a few of his teammates went out to eat. 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:40.520 A familiar face was already in the restaurant and Kobe 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.720 in the bag, and then it was him in security 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:46.600 guard um in the back when he walked out and 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.840 came to came to State with Uther, and he ended 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.280 up sitting sitting with us like hours and shopping up 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.880 with us, talking and telling us about me. We're asking 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.040 a question, tell us about what he was doing that 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.760 summer that season, just prepared for his last season, everything 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:03.920 he had to go through to get ready for a game. Uh, 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.280 he was just telling some crazy stories. So I'm really 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.960 the only chance to having to having extended interactional with Kobe, 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.600 talking to gain with him, just learning, picking his brain, 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.040 seeing how he how he taked. And it was kind 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.000 of cool because it was going into his last year. 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:19.240 You know, he kind of turned the corner as far 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.360 as his his competitivenessues only to a point where he 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.160 will to get away some secrets and some tips to 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.600 the other guys that you know, if that was five 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.800 and earlier than that, he wouldn't have told us nearly 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.200 any anything about what he's doing to get ready to play. 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.400 So still a pretty cool experience there. It is if 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:41.000 Seth had been playing in the NBA before two, before 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.800 Kobe went through his Olympic experience, would Kobe have approached 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.760 that table and taken the time to talk with Seth 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.480 and his teammates. I'm not sure that said, I don't 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:53.800 think Kobe ever lost the essence of who he was, 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.280 and Seth didn't think that either. I asked him what 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.400 he thought Kobe's legacy was. First of what was this 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:06.800 his competitiveness? I mean drive, his competitiveness to be great. Um, 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:11.440 he sacrifice a lot in his personal life friends, uh, friendship, 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.560 even he says, I his his as with his family 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:16.879 just to be to be the best of his craft 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.639 and to be the um best player could possibly be. 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.440 So you gotta respect that. Doing with one franchise for 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:27.680 twenty years. Um, just when his name is just tie 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:30.560 right in with the Laker, with the Laker organization like 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.080 a culture, the whole city of l A. I think 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:37.240 that's that competitiveness and instead the Laker tradition is is 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:48.720 his legacy. For Tobias Harris, Kobe's legacy was tangible well 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:52.280 after he had retired. Harris was in his seventh NBA 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:56.120 season and with his third NBA team, the Detroit Pistons 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.840 when they traded him to the Los Angeles Clippers in January. 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.199 The Clippers and the Lakers share the same home arena. 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.320 It was called Staples Center, then it's called Crypto dot 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:12.920 Com Arena now whatever its name. To Tobias, it was 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.000 Kobe's house. Yeah, just because, like you know, it was 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:21.440 always a feeling of about woman arenas was with the Clippments, 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:26.240 but just just knowing that it's there's a port of 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:31.240 Mark on all until his career achievements. You know, just 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.919 even when we were playing the Lakers, excitement seeing out 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.680 your games on TV. It was a real excitement for 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.760 the buzz of l A. But it's because of Kobe 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.240 and when he implemented you know, obviously Kobe and shocked 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:48.720 there doing that they had and then after that, but yeah, 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.840 being out there is it were like, you know, maybe 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:57.080 and playing in l A and playing in l A. Yeah, 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.359 obviously on the two hundred team, but just that that 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:05.880 buzz and basketball I think is was created and kind 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:10.000 of just heightened through Colby's achievements out there. Tobias is 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.240 in his fourth season with the six person and I 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.600 talked with him not long after he was involved in 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.679 an incident that made me think of Kobe. It happened 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:22.040 during a game against the Houston Rockets in Philadelphia. Tobias 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.879 has been having a bit of a down season, and 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.919 after he missed an easy shot and Philly fans started 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.359 booing it, he raised his arms in defiance as if 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:35.040 to say, bring it on. Then he hit a shot 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.000 later in the game, and as he ran back down court, 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:42.879 he said, don't fucking boom. He got a fair amount 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.080 of criticism and pushed back for that, which shouldn't be surprising. 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:50.360 Philly fans can be tough, but they're also pretty sensitive. Anyway, 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.399 since the incident had just happened, I asked him if 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.080 he'd given any thought to how Kobe would have reacted 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:02.359 in that situation. He wasn't at eve that. He was 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:06.359 a just on his his work, ethic and and and 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.080 pushing through. So you know, I'll take all those things 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:14.520 into consideration, of course, and mean, how about it just 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.480 continue to work. And you know, I think he was 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:21.360 one of the best playing to his career ups and downs, 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:25.280 and you know, nothing when he faced him on the floor, 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:27.680 So I think he definitely did a great job of that. 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:32.200 In late August two thousand nineteen, Kobe held a minicamp 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:36.320 for current NBA players. It was invite only and it 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:41.240 focused almost entirely on offense. Kobe wanted to impart his 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.560 knowledge to the next generation of scores. He held the 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:49.040 camp at his Mamba Academy in Thousand Oaks, California. It's 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:53.359 become a legendary event in recent NBA history. Tobias Harris 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.840 was one of the players Kobe invited. Again, I'm not 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.159 sure this is something Kobe would have even can sit 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.520 here doing earlier in his life. Yet it stands out 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.440 now as one of the reasons that he became such 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.080 a respected figure during his retirement. It's not just that 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.040 Kobe decided to try to be a mentor, it's that 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:17.520 players wanted him to be a mentor. Why What was 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.359 it about him that drew these younger guys to him. 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.560 Here's what Tobias told me. You know, I think, honestly, 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.040 this is the game of basketball. I think, you know, 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:30.640 when I was out there in l A and there's 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:33.399 a group of myself and I think it was like 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:38.680 twenty some guys. But you can see how much he 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:44.119 loves basketball and how much um basketball was was a 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.399 part of him. And really you can see he was 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.320 a very good teacher, and I think that was the 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:54.720 thing that he probably knew his whole career. But he retired. 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:58.320 I think he had like a realization, I've got such 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:02.879 a good teacher at teaching people things that I should 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:04.639 do it more. And I remember where we were at 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.040 to camp that was all like an offense camp, and 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:11.320 he was shown some guys some defense because I joke 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:13.680 a like, man, that's what That's what I want to 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:28.520 build this student. Next year of defense, next year, God, 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:33.560 think about it. That was the summer of two thousand nineteen. 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:39.560 There was no next year. Five months later, Kobe was gone. 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:43.960 We are two years removed now from his death, and 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:47.879 in so many ways, it is still surreal. In so 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:52.680 many ways, the shock still lingers. In so many ways, 0:22:53.400 --> 0:23:02.440 it feels like that tragedy didn't really happen. We've done 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:05.280 our best in this series to give you a fresh 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:09.560 look at Kobe, a chance to see him and examine 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:14.000 him and judge him and remember him from a different perspective, 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:20.120 from several different perspectives. Always, though, there was one theme 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:24.240 at the core of this podcast, the drive that made 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:28.040 Kobe great. Everything was done to try to learn how 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:31.920 to become a better basketball player. Everything, everything, And so 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:35.040 when you have that point of view, then literally the 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:38.640 world becomes your library to help you to become better 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:44.359 at your craft. The players that had that passion but 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:49.879 weren't willing to commit their entire lives to doing that, right, 0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:52.520 it's a choice. Right, you have other things, You have 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:54.200 a family, you have all these other things that you 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:58.240 have to do. The game can't really be your number 0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:01.800 one priority. And so I was just looking at that like, man, 0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:06.240 I'm this is gonna be fun. You saw a lot 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:09.440 of the young Mamba. You saw some of Kobe and 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:13.600 his crime. In this episode. You saw how Kobe mature, 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:18.200 how even he saw himself in a different way. You 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:22.640 might admire him, you might despise him, but it will 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:26.919 be impossible to forget it. And we appreciate you joining 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:40.720 us as we told this story. I Am Kobe is 0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:43.720 a production of the Version Podcasts in association with I 0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:47.159 Heart Radio. This season is written and hosted by me 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:51.520 Mike Sealskin. It's produced by Jacob Bronstein and directed by 0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:55.919 Mark Francis. Story editing by Jacob Bronstein, with editorial direction 0:24:56.040 --> 0:25:00.600 from Scott Waxen. Editing, mixing and sound design by Mark Francis. 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:04.800 Stephen Thompkins is our production assistant. Our theme music is 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:10.240 Create Yourself by Grover Brown featuring Justin Starling. Find Create 0:25:10.280 --> 0:25:15.280 Yourself wherever you stream music. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez 0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:19.520 for fre Soans Sinking. Executive producers are Mark Francis and 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:23.720 Scott Waxman. Join the conversation about I Am Kobe on 0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:28.080 social media on Twitter and Instagram. It's at diversion Pods 0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:33.720 thanks to Orin Rosenbaum, Susan Cannavan and Jeremy Treatment the 0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:37.360 eyebries before the son. They don't understand when I say 0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:39.720 the blind is fun. Never clack you out even where 0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:41.720 my work is done. If they're trying to black me, 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:44.399 I might heart someone throw the blood sweat and says 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:46.879 we part Sufi, stay tending in. Let it keep the 0:25:46.920 --> 0:25:49.520 harus in. If they don't believe in themselves, gab vert 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:52.480 defend that at Sampa says, so on't selling, don't ask 0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:54.960 my am. This the reason why I'm I'm wearing so 0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:59.119 damn different the negatives. I can listen see me at 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:02.720