1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:01,560 Speaker 1: Hi, dear listener. 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 2: It's Maria no Josa of Latino USA, and as you 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: may or may not know, because I got a lot 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 2: of different jobs, y'all, I also co host another award 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 2: winning podcast. It's called In the Thick. It's a show 6 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 2: about politics, race and culture pretty much unzipped and from 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 2: a POC perspective. And recently In the Thick random episode 8 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: talking about the news from Texas and Mexico all about 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: a woman's right to choose and to make decisions about 10 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 2: her own body and what this means about the abortion debate. 11 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 2: So we wanted to share this conversation here on the 12 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 2: Latino USA feed. And just a warning, there's some explicit 13 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 2: language here because, like I said, it's unzipped. So enjoy 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 2: this episode of In the Thick and subscribe wherever you 15 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: get your podcasts on. 16 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 3: It's different than in the United States, where activism is 17 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 3: so siloed. In Latin American countries, there is a more 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 3: holistic discussion about what violence against women means. 19 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: Hey, what's up them? Welcome to In the Thick. 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 2: This is a podcast about politics, race and culture from 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: a POC perspective. 22 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: I'm Maria Nkosa. 23 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 4: And I'm Jimmie La King. 24 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:22,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Jamie La King, who's got a new job. Hello, Hello, Hello, 25 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: you are now the deputy inequality editor at BuzzFeed News. 26 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: So congratulations, Jamila. Thank you so much, Maria, and thank 27 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 2: you for being my co host today. Always Joining us 28 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: from Iowa City is Lena Maria Murillo. She's assistant professor 29 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 2: of Gender, Women's and sexuality studies and history at the 30 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 2: University of Iowa. 31 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: Hey, Lena, welcome to the show. 32 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Marianne. Jamila, I look forward to 33 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 3: this conversation today. 34 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: Me too. Thank you for representing Iowa. 35 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: What and joining us from Sula What is Shia mehico 36 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: Ale is Nica Martinez. She's a journalist covering gender and 37 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: immigration and that Edica in the thick. 38 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 5: Ola, Maria, O La, Jamila, and thank you so much 39 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 5: for having me here representing Chihuahua. 40 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: Really, before we get to the conversation, folks, remember that 41 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: you know, if you hear any dogs, cats, lawnmowers, garbage trucks, sirens, 42 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: you know, we're respecting the quarantine and recording from home. 43 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: So it's all women today on the show, because we're 44 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 2: gonna have a conversation about reproductive justice and really what's 45 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: up with the United States local and it begins to 46 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: feel federal government too, that's just kind of coming after 47 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 2: our rights. And that's because of the recent Texas law 48 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: that went into effect on September first, which prohibits abortion 49 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: once quote unquote fetal cardiac activity is detected. That's as 50 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: early as six weeks for most people. Actually, less than 51 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: a week later, after Texas had made that decision, the 52 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 2: Supreme Court of Mexico unanimously ruled that criminalizing abortion is unconstitutional, 53 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: which is a pretty historic decision. 54 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: I certainly, I've got a lot of a lot of emotions, 55 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: like about all of you. 56 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: So we just want to start with doing a temperature 57 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: check an element here in the thing when we can 58 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: just be real about how we're processing it. As Esseres Umannos, 59 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: Nina Mamoiselle and beside Gondigo, like, how are you doing? 60 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: What is your temperature check? 61 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 6: You know? 62 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 3: I was absolutely distraught about the situation in Texas and 63 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 3: knowing the work of so many activists and how they 64 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 3: have for the last decade, you know, since Rick Perry 65 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,119 Speaker 3: was in office, have poured so much of their precious 66 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 3: time into combating is horrific draconian laws. Knowing that they 67 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 3: were fighting a ridiculously uphill battle. 68 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 7: I mean that was crushing. 69 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 3: You know, some of the activists in Elbaso, folks with 70 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 3: the West Fund and folks with the latest Iteration of 71 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: Parenthood and other organizations, have been doing tons of work 72 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 3: right in their little corners to provide care for people. 73 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 7: And that made me really sad. 74 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 3: You know, it's like you're just adding another ton for 75 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: people to carry, just so much more that they have 76 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 3: to do in order to continue to provide care because 77 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 3: they're going to continue to provide care. 78 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 7: And then when Mexico came through, I was like, what, 79 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 7: you know, it was like yes, Megico. 80 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 3: Like we can say all kinds of stuff about the 81 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 3: Mexican government, right, there's a lot of problems there, for 82 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 3: sure when it comes to human rights, when it comes 83 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 3: to the rights of journalists and the rights of women. 84 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 7: But this was one of those things where it was 85 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 7: like ex even you know, like. 86 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 3: You guys see you guys in the US, right, like 87 00:04:55,200 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 3: we need to have a regional, hemispheric approach to thinking 88 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 3: about social justice movements. I did think of it as 89 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 3: a human being, but also my scholarly research. Energy jumped 90 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 3: in and I was like, you know, I want to 91 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 3: know about what prompted this. You know, for those of 92 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 3: us here who aren't constantly keeping up with the news 93 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 3: in Mexico, it did seem like not so out of 94 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 3: the blue, because there have been. 95 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: Right, oh for yeah, dude, les elitas. Yes, that's all 96 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 2: we need to say, women who took up arms and 97 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: were fighting in the Mexican Revolution. So this notion because 98 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 2: American mainstream media does not cover Latin American feminism period 99 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: and certainly not Mexican feminism, but it has been there 100 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 2: and I frankly am proud to say that I'm I'm 101 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: kind of like a product of that. So hell, yes, 102 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 2: Latin American feminism has been leading the way. And thank 103 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: you for that, Lena. And let's check in with you 104 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: with Anka, like what's your temperature check comos test sindienlo. 105 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 8: Well for my temperature, sheck. 106 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 5: I will say rather than say that I'm right now 107 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 5: like on the red red with anger, I feel more green, right. 108 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 5: I feel like it was the decision and the Supreme 109 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 5: Court of Mexico that kind of brought this kind of 110 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 5: hope that we are going to see some change in 111 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 5: our country. Also, all of these reporting that I did 112 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 5: with the series of abortion and a Border came in 113 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 5: a time where all of the cards were shuffling, right, 114 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 5: So right now it's a matter of time and to 115 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 5: see what kind of hands we're going to get. And 116 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 5: so in general as a reporter, I kind of like 117 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 5: am filling the adrenaline knowing that a lot of mobilization, 118 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 5: a lot of marches are going to happen throughout this month, 119 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 5: and we already know that also a march is going 120 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 5: to happen in El Paso on October second, which yes, 121 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 5: And so in general as a reporter, I'm ready for 122 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 5: it because. 123 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 2: Maybe we all remember that thing called the Women's March, 124 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: which was like the largest mass mobilization of human beings. 125 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 2: I think, ever, maybe thank you for that, Vitika, for 126 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: giving us the sense of well, people who men straight 127 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: and their allies are responding. 128 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 9: All right. 129 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: I mean I do want to do a quick temperature 130 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: check with you. How are you doing? 131 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 4: You know, media? I am feeling inspired actually, you know, 132 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 4: going back to what Oniko was saying, like, I am 133 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 4: really inspired to learn outside of a US context. The 134 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 4: US context is very boring to me right now, and 135 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 4: I'm feeling inspired to learn more, but I'm also feeling exhausted. 136 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 4: And you know, here we are, what less than fifty 137 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 4: years outside of roversus Wade, and we're still having this conversation. 138 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 4: So you know, I'm gearing up for a fight, but 139 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 4: I am feeling inspired for what's to come. And what 140 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 4: about you, Maria, what do you feel? 141 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 2: It's been a rough week, you know, as with the 142 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 2: nine to eleventh thing, just like feeling like, how is 143 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: it possible that in twenty years yet again this country 144 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: feels like it's going backwards. And why is it that 145 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: people don't want to wear a mask but they want 146 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: to tell me when I have to have an abortion 147 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: in order to suit their desires, like their timeline. I'm 148 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 2: like very confused and angered, and I think buttonicque said, 149 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 2: you know, seeing red, like I've been seeing a lot 150 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: of red of the anger. But I actually love the 151 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: way you picked it up, Jamina, which is you know, 152 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 2: we're going to choose to be inspired. People are activated 153 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: and throwing it back to the rore is you know, 154 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: the queen of all organizers and activists who says, well, 155 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 2: whenever there's something that's fucked up that happens, it's always. 156 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: An opportunity for great organizing. Absolutely, Okay, Jemmy, take it away, 157 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: very very true. 158 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 4: So, Maria, I've been thinking about how what we're seeing 159 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 4: in Texas is the results of a white supremacist political 160 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 4: minority that's been controlling government for far too long. It 161 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 4: didn't just happen overnight. It's the result of Texas Republicans 162 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 4: continued attacks on reproductive healthcare in that state. In just 163 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 4: March twenty twenty, when Governor Abbott signed an executive order 164 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 4: to halt all medical procedures deemed not medically necessary under 165 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 4: the guise of the pandemic. Abortion was one of them, damn, 166 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 4: meaning that Texans have been struggling to find ways to 167 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 4: access reproductive healthcare. But the way this new law is 168 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 4: enforced through private citizens is another aspect of the Republican strategy, 169 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 4: which is vigilanteism. Andana Rubani, co executive director of fun 170 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 4: Texas Choice, a nonprofit that helps those who travel for abortions, 171 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 4: said this on Slate's What's Next podcast on September seven. 172 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 10: One of the biggest barriers is the waiting period. There's 173 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 10: a mandatory twenty for our waiting period between the son 174 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 10: agreement and the procedure unless you live over one hundred 175 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 10: miles away from the clinic, and so you know the 176 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 10: distance right, Texas is so great and size, but there 177 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 10: aren't a lot of clinics everywhere in size, so a 178 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 10: lot of our clients have to travel hundreds of miles 179 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 10: each way or they have to leave the state. So 180 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 10: where clients in West Texas tend to go to New 181 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 10: Mexico because that's closer than going to the clinic and taxes. 182 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 10: And then there's a whole nother layer of crisis pregnancy 183 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 10: centers that exist who tout themselves as they're going to 184 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 10: help you figure it out and they're going to help 185 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 10: you get the care that you need to make the 186 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 10: best decision you wanted to make. 187 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 7: But they're anti choice. 188 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 10: They don't have any laws restricting the kind of information 189 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 10: they give, and so sometimes they will lie to the 190 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 10: client and say or lie to the patient and say, 191 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 10: you're only four weeks along or five weeks along, even 192 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 10: though they're eight to ten weeks along. And we've seen 193 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 10: clients come to us like seventeen weeks along that they 194 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 10: thought they were twelve weeks long and had more time 195 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 10: to get to the clinic, but they don't. And the 196 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 10: other side of it all is there are a limited 197 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 10: amount of clinics and so they get full. 198 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: This is the part where again because I actually reported 199 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 2: about this all in the Bronx, in the South Bronx, 200 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 2: they were doing the same thing, like they would make 201 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 2: it seem like their planned parenthood, but they weren't. And 202 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 2: then they would show these horrible videos and basically confuse 203 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 2: women and give them misinformation. And already now we're beginning 204 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 2: to see like the real impacts because it is an 205 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 2: assault on poor women because if you are wealthy, you 206 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,599 Speaker 2: will get on a plane. But if you don't have 207 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: money and you don't have documents, you don't have the 208 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 2: privilege to be able to travel. And therefore poor people 209 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 2: in the state of Texas usually black, brown, that the 210 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: next indigenous. So Itdonika, I want you to talk a 211 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 2: little bit about your reporting. What have you been seen 212 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: like specifically that you can tell us about. 213 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 5: Yes, And so basically, this new law restricts abortions for vecans, 214 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 5: right for people in Olpaso who usually their options were 215 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 5: already very limited. So because of the pandemic pan parenthood, 216 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 5: it's not performing any abortions kuiltop Women's Reproductive Clows this year. 217 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 5: The other option is a clinic in Santa Teresa, New Mexico, 218 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 5: but that clinic has this expectation of serving the community 219 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 5: of Alpaso of more than eight hundred thousand people. I 220 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 5: want to also kind of like mention how this law 221 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,599 Speaker 5: also restricts abortion access to people in quats permanently. 222 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 8: Well, if this law stays. 223 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: In place, that's interesting. What do you mean people from what. 224 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 5: Is I'm talking about privileged people. People who have a 225 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 5: tourist visa to cross to al Paso had that option. Well, 226 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 5: I can go to al Paso and have an abortion 227 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 5: at a safe and legal place in the clinic. But 228 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 5: the pandemic with the border closure kind of like close 229 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 5: down opportunity. And so even organizations in Mexico City they 230 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 5: mentioned how they saw arise in the use of misoy. 231 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 2: I hadn't thought about that, and that's kind of a 232 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 2: medical inducement to provoke a miscarriage. Lena, I'm wondering because 233 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 2: you've written about how historically Texas has been at the 234 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 2: center of the battle with Roe v. Wade actually originating 235 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 2: in the state and so I'm wondering if you can 236 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 2: talk a little bit more about what's happened now in 237 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 2: the context of the history of Texas. Again, we're kind 238 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: of talking like this white wave of men trying to 239 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 2: limit people who men straight in Texas and can give 240 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: birth in Texas their access to choice. 241 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 7: Oh, Texas, Texas is such a confounding place. 242 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 3: I think part of it has to do with, you know, 243 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 3: we want to go all the way back to the 244 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 3: nineteenth century. I think it has to do with Texas 245 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 3: really seeing itself as this outlier, as its own country 246 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 3: in some ways, you know, in this case, setting the 247 00:13:55,320 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 3: standard in the most conservative, draconian way with these laws. 248 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 3: I was recently talking to a colleague who was saying, oh, well, 249 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 3: you know, the mainstream Republican Party is not talking about 250 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 3: this huge coop that they seemingly won in Texas, which 251 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 3: is essentially putting a halt to row. And I said, 252 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 3: you know, the GOP is not homogeneous. It is a 253 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 3: heterogeneous group of people. And there are some in the 254 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 3: party who realize that abortion remains very much a procedure 255 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 3: that people across the country understand is necessary. Right about 256 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 3: sixty percent of the US population still believes in a 257 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 3: person's right to choice, but there are some in the 258 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 3: Republican Party who are incredibly increasingly threatened. This is along 259 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 3: the lines of also demographic changes. Right to Jimill's point 260 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 3: about white supremacy, Texas is falling in line with states 261 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 3: like California where the electorate is quickly becoming black and brown. 262 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 3: It's not just a coincidence that the law that went 263 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 3: into effect restricting abortion is also going into effect at 264 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 3: the same time that Texas isn't stating. 265 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 7: Some of the most ruthless voting rights laws. 266 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 9: Right. 267 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 3: So this is all part of a larger concerted effort 268 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 3: to kind of return Texas back to the white Anglo 269 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 3: Saxons who were the settlers back in eighteen thirty six. 270 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: Dam this sounds so Handmaid's Tally, it really is. 271 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 3: I teach that book often in my classes here at 272 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 3: the University of Iowa, and there is a section at 273 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 3: the end of that book where it's a historian looking 274 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 3: back at that Handmaid's Record. 275 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 7: The historian is putting into context. 276 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 3: Gilead, and he says the reason why Gilead came about 277 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 3: is because there was massive demographic decline among the Caucasian race, 278 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 3: and the only way for the Caucasian race to reassert 279 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 3: itself was essentially to create handmaids to force them to 280 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 3: have children. Right, we're assuming that the handmaids that are 281 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 3: being forced to have children unlike the actual show, but 282 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 3: in Atwood's novel, these are white women, right, They're being 283 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 3: forced to have children. 284 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 7: Anti abortion laws. 285 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 3: Are increasingly becoming critical and central to white supremacist movements 286 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 3: in the United States. Okay, damn, who are not only 287 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 3: anti abortion but anti contraception and are wanting to move 288 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 3: back to this sort of quote unquote hashtag trad life, 289 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 3: traditional life where women stay home and wear the children, 290 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 3: men are the breadwinners and go out. 291 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 9: Right. 292 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 3: So as Loretta Ross, who's the sort of godmother of 293 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 3: reproductive justice, says, you know, like abortion is the tip 294 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 3: of the iceberg. 295 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: Wow, thank you for that. 296 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, But I do want to add that, like, in 297 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 5: the context of abortion, we often talk about the legalization, 298 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 5: but we don't often frame it about the axis. So 299 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 5: going back to Quadensis, who might have thought about going 300 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 5: to the clinics in oil Passa to get an abortion. 301 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 5: A lot of what the activists in this side of 302 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 5: the border were telling me is like, yes, but for us, 303 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 5: this law really doesn't make any difference for the women 304 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 5: who were already limited to cross the border. What happens 305 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 5: to that woman who doesn't have a visa, What happens 306 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 5: to that woman who doesn't have four hundred to six 307 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 5: hundred dollars. 308 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 8: To pay for an abortion? 309 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 5: The same thing goes around for people in Texas who 310 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 5: don't have that access. This law also cutting the support 311 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 5: system of abortion funds that would have helped women to 312 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 5: have access to this medical procedure. 313 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 8: It's isolating them. 314 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 5: So in the concept of accessibility, it was brown people 315 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 5: of color, low socioeconomic standard that were even before this 316 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 5: law not being able. 317 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 8: To access abortion. 318 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 4: So let's go across the border real quick, because it's 319 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 4: a different scenario. 320 00:17:59,040 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: Slightly. 321 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 4: Yes, and we heard historic news from Mexico. In a 322 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 4: case taking place in the border state of Kualauela, the 323 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 4: Supreme Court of Mexico ruled that it is unconstitutional to 324 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 4: criminalize abortion. We'll talk about cross border abortion care in 325 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 4: a bit, but first we want to debrief this decision. 326 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 4: While only four states in Mexico have legalized abortion, this 327 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 4: ruling does set a precedent and can now be used 328 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 4: to challenge restrictive laws across the country. However, access to 329 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 4: abortion care across the country is still difficult due to 330 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 4: few clinics offering the procedure and a twenty eighteen law 331 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 4: that gives doctors the right to refuse to perform any 332 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 4: procedures that go against their personal beliefs, and doctors and 333 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 4: nurses have long reported women who have attempted home abortions. Ough, 334 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 4: So just like damn, But this is still a moment 335 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,719 Speaker 4: of hope, and we are starting to see some abortion 336 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 4: restrictions loosen across Latin America, with Argentina Senate voting last 337 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 4: year to legalize abortions up until the fourteenth week, and 338 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 4: Ecuador and April legalizing abortion in cases of rape. So, Lena, 339 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 4: what are your thoughts on the Supreme Court decision and 340 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 4: what impact do you think it'll make. 341 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 3: As I was sitting at the top, my reaction initially 342 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 3: was of joy, and then I was like, who's responsible 343 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 3: for this and what did they say? 344 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: Right? 345 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 3: You know, I went to Venonica's Reporting, who has done 346 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 3: just incredible work in the border region, and just started 347 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: to do my own research and make links and happened 348 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 3: upon the President of the Supreme Court in Mexico. Arturo 349 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 3: Saldiva's reasoning, you know what adjuctstaposition to the almost emptiness 350 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 3: of what the Supreme Court in the United States said 351 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 3: when they refused to halt the law in Texas. Right, 352 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 3: he said, this is about bringing access to care to 353 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 3: people across our country. And Benonica correct me if I'm wrong, 354 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 3: but from what I understood, he was saying, this is 355 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 3: an attempt to reckon with violence against women. It's not 356 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 3: just about the decriminalization of abortion, but it's also the 357 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 3: attention to violence against women in Mexico. 358 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 7: That's the movement. 359 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 8: Right. 360 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 3: It's different than in the United States, where activism is 361 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 3: so siloed, right, Like we're just talking about abortions, right, 362 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 3: and there's a group that just does that. We're talking 363 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 3: about you know, sexual assault and violence, and that's just 364 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 3: over here. But in Mexico and in other Latin American countries, 365 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 3: there is a more holistic discussion about what violence against 366 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 3: women and marginalized people means. Right, And so at the 367 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 3: president of the Supreme Court said, this is what we're 368 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 3: going to do. We're going to send attorneys out to 369 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 3: places where women and pregnant people are being criminalized for abortion, 370 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 3: and we're going to represent them. So this is a shift, right, 371 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 3: It's just again such a juxtaposition to what not just 372 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 3: Texas did, but what the Supreme Court of the United 373 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,959 Speaker 3: States did, which was to stay silent. 374 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 2: But also the Supreme Court of the United States regarding 375 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: Roe v. Wade, I want to go back to kind 376 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 2: of separating it from the Mexican conversation, right, which is, 377 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 2: let's protect vulnerable people in the United States, it was like, 378 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 2: we care about people's right to privacy. That's what Roe v. 379 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 2: Wade is about, and instead it's become politicized. Yes, I 380 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 2: don't know, that's deep. 381 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 4: Veronica, What have you heard on the ground there in Mexico? 382 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 5: Okay, So right now the landscape on the twenty eight 383 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 5: states that criminalize abortion is that the main obstacle for 384 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 5: decriminalizing it, it's the legal code in each state. So 385 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 5: right now, Chihuahua, their criminal code still says that any 386 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 5: woman who tries to get an abortion and the person 387 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 5: that facilitates that procedure can face six months to three years. 388 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 8: Yeah. Right, And so right now, what it's on the 389 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 8: hands of. 390 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 5: The Congress and the butalos is to change that criminal code. 391 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 8: Right since I report from Chihuahua. 392 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 5: What I've been hearing, what I've been talking with lawyers 393 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 5: is about like what is Hihawa going to do. The 394 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 5: same day that the Supreme Court of Mexico made this decision, 395 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 5: the buta from Alban Maricelamos, supported by the rest of 396 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 5: Thetalos Alban presented an initiative to exhort the Supreme Court 397 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 5: to reconsider their decision. 398 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 8: That they just made in the state of Quahuila. 399 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 5: But yet, like talking with some of the lawyers here 400 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 5: in Chihuahua, another one in Mexico City who has worked 401 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 5: with hidden the GROUPO then forma productiva, they're saying, how 402 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 5: like the local congress has no jurisdiction to change the 403 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 5: decision of the Supreme Court, and they know that, and 404 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 5: so this is more of a message of this is 405 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 5: the position that Chihuahua, a very conservative state, will have. 406 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 5: And also on September eighth, it was the first day 407 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 5: of the administration of our new governor, Maria Augenya Campos, 408 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 5: who has also been very open about her views on 409 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 5: abortion and how she supports the letter to the La Familia. 410 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 5: Only the next day, so September nine, she attended a 411 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,719 Speaker 5: like an event here in Ciua uaddens, nothing related to abortion, 412 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 5: nothing related to help. And she wore a blue handkerchief. 413 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,719 Speaker 8: And as we know, the green handkerchief represents the pro 414 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 8: abortion movement in Latin America. 415 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 5: So in contrast, the blue one represents the pro life movement. 416 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about these decisions from 417 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,479 Speaker 2: Texas and the Supreme Court in Mexico, basically happening back 418 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: to back. And I did, in fact live through a 419 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: time when you would go to Mexico to get an abortion, 420 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: when abortion was illegal in the United States. Lena, you've 421 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 2: written about how this isn't new, that it's been happening 422 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 2: for a while, and Veronica, you actually have been reporting 423 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 2: for several weeks now, putting together this three part series 424 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: for Elbaso Matters and Labor Dad. It's titled Abortion on 425 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 2: the Border, and you spoke with women who traveled across 426 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 2: the border on both sides to access reproductive rights medicine services. 427 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 2: Here's a clip of two women, one who crossed from Elbaso, 428 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 2: Texas into tou Ahua Is Chihuahua for the abortion pill 429 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 2: and the other person who went from what is to 430 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 2: Elbaso for an abortion. 431 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: It's really fascinating. Let's listen. 432 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 6: I think being on the border, yeah, it is part two. 433 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 5: It is. 434 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 6: I think being in Texas is less fortuit to have. Yeah, 435 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 6: the option to cross. 436 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 9: Verdora is to get medication is useful. But at the 437 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 9: same time, if I was, you know, in another state, 438 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 9: maybe I would have had a couple other options and. 439 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 6: It might have felt overall, just save her. Your racy 440 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 6: condo was really hious. There is the. 441 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 2: Recursos. 442 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 8: But I said, let's. 443 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 11: Well again, kidding sky is that magask Livia Arno is 444 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 11: the royal economic. 445 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 6: Non spoor Kay. 446 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 11: When I was coming personals ankay, she said, you know they. 447 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 2: See it in m I mean, I just remember like 448 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 2: when I got pregnant twice when I was in college 449 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 2: in the early nineteen eighties using birth control. But here's 450 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: what I did. I went to that student health services 451 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: at my college, which is a women's college, and I 452 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 2: said I need an abortion and they said, okay, go here. 453 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 5: That was it. 454 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 2: So this notion of women having to cross back and 455 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: forth because alfinl Liquinas, we will end up getting pregnant, 456 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: sometimes not all the time. It will happen that we 457 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 2: didn't want to be pregnant at that time. They don't 458 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 2: get talk a little bit about what you're seeing in 459 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 2: terms of kind of now this conversation about. 460 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: Me gruso, do I cross there? Do I not cross? 461 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 2: And of course in all of the conversation of crossing 462 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 2: and going any place, we're talking about privilege. You've got 463 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 2: a passport, you can cross. If you don't have, you know, papers, 464 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 2: if you don't have the money, you can't. You can't 465 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 2: do anything. 466 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 5: Yes, And I feel like one of the sources that 467 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 5: we spoke with one of the women who wanted to 468 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 5: get an abortion, and in Opaso put it very simple, 469 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 5: she did it with all of her privilege. And so 470 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 5: what we're seeing here in the border is that Alpaso, 471 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 5: Texas is no longer a safe legal heaven for them 472 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 5: to access abortion. But the conversation for a lot of 473 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 5: the activists here is still in Mexico. It's about the 474 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 5: vulnerable women here in Sila Huades are the ones that 475 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 5: don't know the rights. They don't have even three hundred 476 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 5: pistoles to vay miso prostol. That's where the need is 477 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 5: and that's why a lot of the activists when talking 478 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 5: about why are you going out to the streets and marching, 479 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 5: why are you deciding to Vienna Companiente, Why are you 480 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 5: supporting women doing this? 481 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 8: A lot of them are. 482 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 5: Saying how because no one should be doing this alone, 483 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 5: No one should have to. 484 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 8: Be navigating this with stigma. 485 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 5: They're already going through a very difficult decision, and so 486 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 5: this Texas law putting basically a five six week deadline only. 487 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 8: Makes that decision more tough. 488 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 5: One of the women that I spoke with, she was 489 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 5: only seventeen when she had her abortion, but she was 490 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 5: saying that she found out that she was pregnant after 491 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 5: three months because she was still getting her period. 492 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 8: It was a very like unangle and. 493 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 2: She was hoping, against all hope that she was not 494 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 2: going to be pregnant. Yeah, do you see a little 495 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 2: bit of blood? You're like, this is great, I'm not pregnant, 496 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 2: you know, And it's like that's how it works. 497 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 8: Yes, Yes, like seeing that saying it's like okay, yes, 498 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 8: I made it. I'm good. 499 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 5: Exact this men in government are saying, no, but this 500 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 5: man will never be pregnant. This man will never have 501 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 5: to make that decision. 502 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: Well, that's what we're talking about. 503 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 2: They just don't get it like here because we've had 504 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: periods and we can talk about well, you know, if 505 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: you're spotting and you think this, and men are like, 506 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 2: what the hell are you talking about? Like we don't 507 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 2: even know, Like that's great, Siska, No, that's what our 508 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 2: bodies look like. That's what it feels like. And by 509 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 2: the way, I love what you said about the stigma. 510 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 2: That's why I'm so public about having had two abortions, 511 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 2: because I don't want any person who has to make 512 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 2: this decision. 513 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: It's hard enough as it is. 514 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 2: This is not something you're like, oh great, let me No, 515 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 2: you don't want it to happen because you don't want 516 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 2: to have to be put into this position. So I'm 517 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 2: just saying I am all about breaking the stigma. 518 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: Lina. 519 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 2: In your dissertation, you wrote about accessing birth control on 520 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 2: the border, So can you talk a little bit about 521 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 2: what that access has been like historically and what you're expecting. 522 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I'll do my abbreviated version of my dissertation. 523 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: I know, I know you're just like, I worked on 524 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: it for fifteen years. Basically, I'll give you the ninety 525 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: second version real quick. 526 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 3: You know, I'm actually in the process of turning it 527 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 3: into a book tentatively titled Fighting for Control, and it 528 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 3: really is about for so longas have been kept out 529 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 3: of the conversation or reproductive rights, mainly because historians suggested 530 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 3: and activists themselves that Latinas and Chicanas were not interested 531 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 3: in reproductive rights, but they were busy with issues of 532 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 3: you know, childcare, or issues of labor conditions or when 533 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 3: we think about these other ancillary supposedly you know, marginal issues, 534 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 3: they are central to reproductive health, and they are central 535 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 3: and critical to reproductive justice. 536 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 7: And so that's kind of the. 537 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 8: Focus of my book. 538 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 3: And so I traced the history of Chicanas Mexicanas in 539 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 3: the border region and how they, you know, first kind 540 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 3: of came into connection with organizations like Planned Parenthood in 541 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 3: the nineteen thirties, an organization that you know, is finally 542 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 3: kind of attempting to reckon with it's very problematic salute. 543 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: Latina is a just salute anywhere. I love it. 544 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 3: Manners before anything totally, you know, Planned Parenthood coming to 545 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 3: terms with their eugenic history, right, and they did. They 546 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 3: engaged in some very problematic birth control campaigns in the border. 547 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 3: They went to the border region and they found interested 548 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 3: you know, Anglo residents who wanted to help curb the 549 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 3: population of the Mexican community that was increasing. 550 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 9: Right. 551 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 3: This is in the years after the Mexican Revolution, so 552 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 3: you have a lot of migration. It became kind of 553 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 3: a main hub for where Mexico and the US could 554 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 3: send information about population control, which it was very rarely 555 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,959 Speaker 3: premised on the ability of people to have reproductive freedom, 556 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 3: because wealthy people already had it, you know, as we've 557 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 3: been stating, right, this is not new. So this was 558 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 3: about teaching poor people how to control and discipline their reproduction, right, 559 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 3: And so they went to Alpaso. They has because it was, 560 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 3: you know, the Ellis Island of the southwest. This is 561 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 3: where you had some of the largest migratory corridors throughout 562 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 3: the twentieth century. In the nineteen forties and fifties. The 563 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 3: role in some ways is reversed when there are increasing 564 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 3: attacks in the US against abortion providers. 565 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 7: Now, mind you, this is before Roe v. 566 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: Wade, That's what I'm saying. 567 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 8: And even though it was. 568 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 3: Illegal, there were underground abortion providers and so people could 569 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,959 Speaker 3: get abortions in the United States. But in the nineteen forties, 570 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 3: after World War Two, as men were coming back from war, 571 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 3: there was a move by politicians and other moralists of 572 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 3: the time that said, no, women need to go back 573 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 3: to their more traditional roles. Thank you for helping in 574 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 3: the factories while our men were at war, but now 575 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 3: you guys have to go back to the kitchen. And 576 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 3: so that translated into attacks against underground abortion providers in 577 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 3: the US. So what did people do. They went to 578 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 3: borderlands and in places like what Is. In the nineteen 579 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 3: fifties and the nineteen sixties, they became kind of the 580 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 3: epicenter for abortion provision for people, not only in what Is, 581 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 3: but certainly for American women. 582 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 4: So let's move on to our final segment, binge worthy. 583 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 4: We want to know what you're binging on. 584 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: I will start. 585 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 4: I was gifted a collection of poetry by Khalil Jabron 586 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 4: the Prophet, which I've never read before, and I'm getting 587 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 4: into it. I love it. So, Maria, what about you? 588 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm watching two shows, which of course 589 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 2: feature women. One of them is called Good Girls. 590 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: I think it is. 591 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 2: It's all about women who rob and steal and cheat, 592 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 2: to make their suburban lives real. And the other one 593 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 2: is called The Chair with Sandra Oh, which is all 594 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 2: about a woman who is running an English department. You 595 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 2: all know I work in an English department in my college. 596 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 2: So I'm just like, that's what I'm binching on. And 597 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 2: I really have enjoyed being disconnected because I've needed it, 598 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 2: all right, So what about you, Lena, something you're binging. 599 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 2: It can be poetry, it can be a TV show, 600 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 2: a podcast. 601 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 7: I tried to watch The Chair and it was too 602 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 7: much like real life, so it just stop. 603 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 8: It was making me crazy. 604 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 6: I'm you know what. 605 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 3: I have two daughters that are like in their twin years, 606 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 3: and it's lucky you. Oh my goodness, it's a lot. 607 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 3: I watch what they want to watch because we've sucked 608 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 3: to the only one TV rule at our house. So 609 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 3: they're really obsessed with Grownish and we've been binging Grownish 610 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 3: for the last I don't know, like two months. 611 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 12: As the country finally saw its blind spot, we were 612 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 12: also forced to take notice of our own. The only 613 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 12: thing we could do was move forward with our eyes 614 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 12: open in an effort to be better people to those 615 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 12: around us and hope that the rest of the country 616 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:03,839 Speaker 12: would eventually do the same. 617 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 8: And it's just it's sweet and it's fun. 618 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 3: They do have thoughtful conversations about sexuality and race, and 619 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 3: they have fabulous outfits, and so we just kind of 620 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 3: hang out and watch that as a reprieve from all 621 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 3: the madness. 622 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: All right, Betnica, and what is what are you binging on? 623 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 8: Well? 624 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 5: Also considering that this series took me and Victoria more 625 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 5: than almost two months to report on, like I was 626 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 5: feeling like I was eating reading, having abortion for breakfast, 627 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 5: you know, like all that I was thinking about was 628 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 5: so also trying to get away from that topic but 629 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 5: also tackling like relevant topics for today. The last show 630 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 5: that I completely binge like it took me less than 631 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 5: two weeks to end was Atlanta. 632 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: Oh nice, Oh that's a good one. 633 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 5: I was a little bit behind, but also knowing that 634 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 5: season three is in production, like probably I will binge 635 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 5: it again. I feel like Atlanta has a very nice 636 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 5: balance of surrealism but also presenting very real issues. 637 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 13: Dream I was swimming in this pool but it was 638 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 13: like the ocean, and I swim with the seaweed, but 639 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 13: it wasn't seaweed. 640 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: It was it's like hands. 641 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 13: And I swam with this girl and she was saying, 642 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 13: if the hands grabby, they pull you down and drown yourself, 643 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 13: swim both them. 644 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: M that's deep, dude. From Khalil Gibron to Atlanta. I'm 645 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: just saying, don't usually happen like that. We get ranged 646 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: like that right here in the Thick. 647 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 2: Eronica Martinez, journalist covering gender and immigration, and Lina Maria Muri, you, 648 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 2: assistant professor at the University of Iowa, thank you so 649 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 2: much for joining Jamila and me on this episode of 650 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 2: In the Thick, which which grasiers. 651 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: I'm Mariajosan and I'm Jimmy La King. 652 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 2: And remember, dear listener, go to Apple Podcasts to rate 653 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 2: and review us, because you know you ain't hearing this 654 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 2: conversation anyplace else. Also, remember you can listen to In 655 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 2: the Thick on Pandora, Spotify, wherever you choose to get 656 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 2: your podcasts on. Check us out on the web at 657 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 2: inththik dot org, follow us on Twitter and on Instagram 658 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,240 Speaker 2: at In the Thick Show, and like us on Facebook. 659 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: Please and tell everybody to listen. 660 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 2: In the Thick is produced by Nour Saudi Hashanahata and 661 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 2: our New York Women's Foundation Ignite fellow Lisa Salinas, with 662 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 2: editorial support from Mike Sargent, Charlotte Mangin and Nicole Rothwell. 663 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 2: Our audio engineering team is Stephanie Lebou, Julia Caruso, Leah Shaw, Damron, 664 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 2: and Gabrielle A Bias. Our digital editor is res Luna. 665 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 2: Thanks to Raubets for recording me. The music you heard 666 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 2: is courtesy of Natsia, not Captain z ZK Records. We'll 667 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 2: see you on our next episode. Dear listener, thanks for listening. Chiao, 668 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 2: Stay safe y'all in the border state of KAOUI la 669 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 2: wow wee la. 670 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: I almost did it. We gotta get you on here. 671 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: I'm Northano, Mexican States. I know, I know, Okay, how 672 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 1: do you say it? Guwela, Guewela, wou Wheela. 673 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 10: You got it? 674 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: Wow wow. 675 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 4: Thank you as a team effort. 676 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 7: The opinions expressed by the guests and contributors in this 677 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 7: podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the 678 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 7: views of Futuro Media or its employees.