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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: All right, guys, we are now joined in studio by

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Speaker 2: a representative, Adam Smith. He is a Democrat. He is

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Speaker 2: from Washington. He is the top Democrat in fact on

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Speaker 2: the House Armed Services Committee, and your team actually reached

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Speaker 2: out saying you wanted to have a conversation about the

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Speaker 2: future of the Democratic Party and your ideas therein so

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Speaker 2: very excited to have that confo.

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Speaker 3: Welcome, good to be on.

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Speaker 2: Thanks, you have a chance, of course, So before we

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Speaker 2: get into all of that, you are at the center

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Speaker 2: of a bunch of very impactful votes as the ranking

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Speaker 2: member on the House Armed Services Committee. So, if you

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Speaker 2: don't mind, I wanted to start by talking to you

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Speaker 2: a little bit about the NDAA. That's National Defense Authorization Act,

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Speaker 2: Section two twenty four. Has been of a lot of

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Speaker 2: interest to our audience. This is what would effectively partially

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Speaker 2: merge the US military with the Israeli military. You're originally

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Speaker 2: in support of it, you change your position on it.

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Speaker 2: I just wonder what did you know about your thoughts procesice.

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Speaker 3: Here merge the US military with the Israeli military. What

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Speaker 3: it does is it talks about co development program.

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Speaker 2: So we can actually put element one up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: Model's discussing because it has some of this.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the Pentagon has one thousand different development programs

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Speaker 3: that they they're put together for procurement of I don't

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Speaker 3: know if everything from the F thirty five to a radio,

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Speaker 3: and when you do that, you develop a program of

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Speaker 3: record and the Pentagon works on it. We have, over

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Speaker 3: the course of the last decade, had three programs that

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Speaker 3: we co developed with the Israeli military around drones, not

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Speaker 3: around drones, around missile defense, well, yeah, counter drones, and

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Speaker 3: so the point of those programs was for the two

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Speaker 3: militaries to work together to develop them. Okay, now neither

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Speaker 3: controls the other in terms of how they use them.

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Speaker 3: So those were just co development programs in this section

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Speaker 3: two twenty four. When it came up to the committee,

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Speaker 3: said let's have one person overlook all three of those

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Speaker 3: programs and let's explore the possibility of more co development programs.

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Speaker 2: Right, So it had to expand and accelerate bilateral defense

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Speaker 2: technology research, development, testing, evaluation, integration, and industrial cooperation. That

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Speaker 2: goes on to spell out what all that.

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Speaker 3: Means, right, And it didn't create any new program And

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Speaker 3: by the way, missile defense was the big thing that

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Speaker 3: we had there, and you know it just so that

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Speaker 3: was the point of it. And mostly I see this

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Speaker 3: as a benefit to the US military, particularly when you're

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Speaker 3: talking about missile defense. The Israeli military is really good

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Speaker 3: at it. They can help us develop those systems so

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Speaker 3: that we have a better system. I think it's an

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Speaker 3: incredible exaggeration to say that this would merge the US military,

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Speaker 3: because out of thousands, literally thousands of programs, we would

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Speaker 3: have three, four, maybe five or six that we were

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Speaker 3: co developing with the IDF.

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Speaker 2: But you've changed your position now correct, you'll miss this.

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Speaker 2: So what are your concerns, because I'll tell you the

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Speaker 2: concerns you know from me personally, I think shared a

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Speaker 2: lot by our audience. Is you are well aware there

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Speaker 2: is a reckoning happening with regard to the US relationship

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Speaker 2: with Israel, especially in the Democratic Party. And so what

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Speaker 2: appears from the outside is that while votes are increasingly

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Speaker 2: becoming difficult for Israel to win in terms of overt

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Speaker 2: aid being granted, this would be a way to secure

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Speaker 2: the Israel US relationship without having that transparency and that

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Speaker 2: democratic accountability that would come from a vote. So that's

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Speaker 2: the concern, is that it would make the Israeli US

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Speaker 2: military relationship more entrenched in a way that lacks any

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Speaker 2: sort of democratic accountability.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I don't agree with that at all. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we're talking about so two different questions here. My concern

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Speaker 3: is I don't support the net Nyahu government and I

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Speaker 3: certainly don't support what Ben Gaver and Smotrich are doing.

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Speaker 3: And that's been I think the real challenge for me

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Speaker 3: is Israel has a right to exist. Israel is threatened

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Speaker 3: profoundly Bahamas has Iran, So how do we help them

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Speaker 3: defend themselves. Well. At the same time, they've got a

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Speaker 3: government that's frankly out of control, particularly in the West Bank.

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Speaker 3: You know, I associate myself with Romney manuals speech in

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Speaker 3: Tel Aviv last week where he said netnya who has

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Speaker 3: decided that he is going to be able to defeat

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Speaker 3: all of his adversaries. So, whether you're talking Lebanon, Gaza,

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Speaker 3: West Bank, Iran is perpetual war all the time. And

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Speaker 3: then with Smoke Church and Ben Gavier, you've got people

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Speaker 3: who really do want to drive all of the palest

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Speaker 3: Indians out of Gaza and the West Bank, and they're

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Speaker 3: in the government. Okay. So the basic idea of the

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Speaker 3: program when it was first presented to me, like I said,

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Speaker 3: it's code development programs and like a missile defense, something

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Speaker 3: we could definitely learn from Israel on And it's a program.

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Speaker 3: You can decide whether or not do code development programs.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, if we decide in Congress that

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Speaker 3: we don't like that program, we can vote it down.

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Speaker 3: It's not outside of the democratic process. We don't have

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Speaker 3: to vote and approve every single program a record that

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Speaker 3: the Pentagon develops, So I don't give to that aspect

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Speaker 3: of it. But a couple of constituents and particularly reached

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Speaker 3: out to me and explained that, look, at this point,

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Speaker 3: voting for anything that integrates the US and the Israeli

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Speaker 3: government further given where the NAT and Yahoo government is at,

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Speaker 3: is just a statement we don't want to make right now.

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Speaker 3: And I agreed with that, and that's what caused me

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Speaker 3: to change my mind on that particular issue.

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Speaker 2: So you've said you would vote against that on the

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Speaker 2: House floor, I.

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Speaker 3: Would vote to remove it from the bill. Yes, So

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Speaker 3: you are.

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Speaker 2: Ranking member Houseworm Services. That makes you one of the

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Speaker 2: most foremost important people in DC in terms of what

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Speaker 2: ends up in the NTAA.

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Speaker 3: And for the fact that I'm in the minority of

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Speaker 3: George and I don't control sure what the majority does

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Speaker 3: by any stretch of the imagination.

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Speaker 2: But what I wanted to know is if you would

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Speaker 2: use that position when it comes to conference, which is

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Speaker 2: when that this is for our audience. I know obviously

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Speaker 2: you know this. When the Senate version is merged with

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Speaker 2: the House version in a difference reconcise, I.

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Speaker 3: Will advocate for the removal of that provision.

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Speaker 2: And if it's not removed, will you refuse to sign

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Speaker 2: off on the conference report.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that I would go that far. It

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Speaker 3: depends on what else is in the bill. I mean, look,

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Speaker 3: the bill itself has the massive problem that it's it's

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Speaker 3: continuing to fund the war and Iran, which is it

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Speaker 3: under disaster. So I am probably not going to vote

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Speaker 3: will almost certainly not going to vote for the bill

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Speaker 3: as it comes off the House floor now, just of itself,

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Speaker 3: regardless of that particular section, just because of that one section,

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Speaker 3: I don't know that I would vote against the entire bill.

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Speaker 2: Well, that was actually the other thing I wanted to

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Speaker 2: ask you about is why are Democrats considering supporting an

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Speaker 2: NDA at all while Trump is prosecuting disastrous, illegal, unconstitutional war, which,

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Speaker 2: to your credit, you've been very vocally unspoken against.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, there's a couple of layers to that. First

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Speaker 3: of all, and this is where we get into some

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Speaker 3: of those divisions within the Democratic Party. I believe that

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Speaker 3: we do need to have a Department of Defense. We

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Speaker 3: need to support our troops. We have national security threats

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Speaker 3: that we have to be prepared to deal with. All right,

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Speaker 3: So do people disagree with that, Well, there are somebody, Look,

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Speaker 3: the Democratic Socialists of America in their platform is defund

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Speaker 3: the Department of Defense. It's in their platform.

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Speaker 2: Haven't the candidates that you're aware of held that position

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Speaker 2: or advocated that position?

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 2: I see lots of people advocate for cutting the Pentagon,

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Speaker 2: which I would agree with. That you may agree with

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I haven't heard anyone advocating for getting rid of it,

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Speaker 2: at least nobody who's elected to office.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, they've But it's part of the DSA platform, okay,

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Speaker 3: and also a broader.

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Speaker 2: View, you agree with everything single word of the Democratic

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Speaker 2: Party platform, I do not, Okay, Okay, so yes, But

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Speaker 2: so should you be held to whatever views are theoretically

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Speaker 2: in some policy position paper or should we deal with

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Speaker 2: the reality of what your positions are?

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Speaker 3: Why would they put it in there in the first place.

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Speaker 3: But aside from that particular point, there is the larger

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Speaker 3: question of the role the US plays in the world.

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Speaker 3: And this is where I do disagree with the DSA.

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Speaker 3: I mean, their general position is that the US is

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Speaker 3: responsible for most of the conflict in the world. And

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Speaker 3: I've heard these arguments about whether you're talking about Iran,

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Speaker 3: North Korea, Russia, China, that everything they're doing is merely

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Speaker 3: in reaction to us, and I don't agree with that.

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Speaker 3: I think we've done some bad things without any question,

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Speaker 3: but i do think we face threats that we need

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Speaker 3: to be in a position to deter. So I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to say that we shouldn't ever have a National

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Speaker 3: Defense Authorizing Act. The second piece of this that I

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Speaker 3: and I'm curious.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying curious.

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Speaker 3: What people think about this.

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Speaker 2: Just a pause on that point for one second. The

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Speaker 2: argument I'm making I don't and I think other people

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Speaker 2: is not that we should never have a National Defense

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Speaker 2: Authorization Act. It's that in this moment, Democrats, as you know,

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Speaker 2: have precious little leverage that they can use as Republicans

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Speaker 2: control the House, the Senate, and the White House. Trump

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Speaker 2: is prosecuting what is in a legal war. There was

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Speaker 2: a War Powers Resolution that was passed through the House

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Speaker 2: and what he is in violation of.

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Speaker 3: Just to be clear, it's bigger part of the problem.

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Speaker 3: Even if this war was legal, it would still still

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Speaker 3: be a disastrous, stupid, terrible, horriblelode.

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Speaker 2: We want hundred percent to play on that, but it

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Speaker 2: is also illegal. So why not use this moment when

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Speaker 2: they would dearly.

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Speaker 3: Like, oh, we are Democratic vote, I'm not disergroute with

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Speaker 3: you at all.

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Speaker 2: So you think that so you want support an NDA,

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Speaker 2: and you don't think the rest of the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 3: There will probably be some who will and some who won't.

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Speaker 3: I mean, and again, how do we use that leverage

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Speaker 3: in an effective way? You know? And keep in mind also,

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Speaker 3: so the National Offense Authorizing Act doesn't actually fund anything.

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Speaker 3: It's not the appropriations bill. It's authorizing, which is the

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Speaker 3: other point I've been trying to get to. Congress needs

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Speaker 3: to exercise oversight of the Department of Defense. You know,

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Speaker 3: We've got a provision in the bill that would bring

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Speaker 3: back collective bargaining for all DoD employees, which we got

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Speaker 3: put into the bill. We've got a variety of different

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Speaker 3: things that Fence Secretary, he says, budgets if he doesn't

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Speaker 3: begin to turn over more information, it's us exercising our oversight.

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Speaker 3: If we pull back from that and don't do anything

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Speaker 3: that winds up with the executive branch having all the

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Speaker 3: control of all the authority, if we just don't pass anything.

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Speaker 3: So there are some things in this bill that exercise

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Speaker 3: oversight of the Pentagon. We step back from that, Trump

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Speaker 3: just goes and does what he wants to do without

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Speaker 3: any congressional oversight. So that's the balance, because I think

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Speaker 3: the mistake when you say leverage, the notion is if

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Speaker 3: we say we won't vote for the Republicans, will therefore

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Speaker 3: give us this, this, this, and this.

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Speaker 2: It'll put some pressure on them. I mean a lot

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Speaker 2: of this there.

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Speaker 3: Will, but they may not. But it may not result

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Speaker 3: in that, so but.

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Speaker 2: May be worth a try.

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Speaker 3: They're on worth are very unpopular.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, let me ask you about your your vote

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Speaker 2: for the Thomas Massey Amendment, which would would blockade to Israel.

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Speaker 2: And this is another one where you had told one

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Speaker 2: outlet that you were planning to vote against it, and

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Speaker 2: then you changed your mind and decided to vote for it.

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Speaker 2: You put on a statement saying that you wanted to

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Speaker 2: send a message to Benjamin at Yahoo. I just I'd

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Speaker 2: love for you. There's actually been a lot of pro

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Speaker 2: Israel folks who have been attacking you, saying you gave

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Speaker 2: in to pressure tactics, et cetera. I'd love for you

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Speaker 2: to explain your own words how you came to this place,

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Speaker 2: because I do think your vote and others are quite

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Speaker 2: extraordinary given where consensus within Washington has been on the

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Speaker 2: you know, relationship with Israel. You had even Nancy Pelosi

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Speaker 2: voting for this amendment. Yourself, given your position and your

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Speaker 2: track record, you're someone who's been supported by APAK.

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Speaker 3: Just take us through this, yere take its going to take.

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Speaker 3: That's fine, take your time, okay, because the real challenge

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Speaker 3: here is what Israel has historically been. Okay, Israel the

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Speaker 3: historically a democratic state in the middle of no democratic states.

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Speaker 3: They were a very strong ally of the US. We

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Speaker 3: partnered with them in a variety for things, counter terrorism

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Speaker 3: being the biggest thing during the ISIS fight and elsewhere.

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Speaker 3: So you've got that historical relationship, and then you've got

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Speaker 3: the reality of what Israel is living in, and that

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Speaker 3: is that they are the only, well, except for Ukraine,

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Speaker 3: they're the only country in the world. Well, they're the

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Speaker 3: only country in the world that from the day they

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Speaker 3: were founded, people have been trying to eliminate them. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's no other country in the war that the Yemen

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Speaker 3: and Saudi Arabia fought. But the Huthis never said that

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Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia didn't have a right to exist. Okay, very

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Speaker 3: existence wasn't on the line, you know, when Israel came

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Speaker 3: into being. From that very moment, they have been attacked constantly.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, it comes down to a fundamental question. Does

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Speaker 3: Israel have a right to exist? Now, I'll tell you,

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Speaker 3: and this is absolutely the DSA position is that they don't. Okay,

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Speaker 3: let's pause on that.

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Speaker 2: I want to get to want and I don't want

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Speaker 2: to fight you on all of this, but I want.

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Speaker 3: You to get I got to get through this. I

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Speaker 3: got to get through this. So so you know, if

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Speaker 3: you have a situation where Israel is threatened on all sides,

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Speaker 3: and I know, it's like, well, no, it's not saying

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Speaker 3: they don't have a right to exist, just they have

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Speaker 3: to let all the Palestinians back in and then effectively

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Speaker 3: the Jews no longer control Israel.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well I'm sorry, but don't you like as an

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Speaker 2: idea of equal rights for all ethnicity is something that

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Speaker 2: you and Dairy support as a democrat.

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Speaker 3: Well well sure, but the practical result of this is

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Speaker 3: if you say there should be equal right, right, right,

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Speaker 3: so within Israel. But if Israel allots, they cease to

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Speaker 3: exist as a country.

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Speaker 2: No, they cease to exist as a Jewish ethno state.

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Speaker 2: That's very different from ceasing to exist as a country.

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Speaker 3: Why is whoo? Why is no? No, No, we got a.

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Speaker 2: Drill that issue for US taxpayers.

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Speaker 3: We got it. We got to drill down on that. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 3: all right, they cease to exist as that's the states.

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Speaker 3: So basically, Jews would live in Palestine and begun earned

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Speaker 3: by the Palestins, by the Arabs. Okay, And maybe that's

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Speaker 3: just what has to happen in the minds of some people.

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Speaker 3: But understand the consequences of it. Understand why Israel was

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Speaker 3: created in the first place, so that the Jews would

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Speaker 3: have some place to go, okay, and to just bliffly

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Speaker 3: say well, yeah, it'll go away and it will be fine.

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Speaker 3: So that's the point.

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, you're mischaracterizing my position, But.

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Speaker 3: What is your Second of all, what is your position?

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Speaker 2: Second of all, you're ignoring that Israel was not created

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Speaker 2: and a land with no people land.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, I know it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: There were people there, there were just placed very different countries.

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Speaker 2: Ever there was there is a dispute over land and

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Speaker 2: the Israel today, which I think is what you were

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Speaker 2: getting to is an apartheid. Ath no state that and

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Speaker 2: I don't think you use this language, but that is

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Speaker 2: in the process of committing a genocide. So we can,

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Speaker 2: you know, we can debate the Israel of the past

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Speaker 2: and the various historical interpretations of how we got to

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Speaker 2: this place. But I think you're correct when you say

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Speaker 2: we have to deal with the reality of today. And

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Speaker 2: you know, I would argue that it's not just the

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Speaker 2: Net Yahoo government. We can sertly argue that point. But

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Speaker 2: you know, we have Jake Sullivan who just came out

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Speaker 2: and said that he regrets the Biden policy of the

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Speaker 2: Bear hug. He thinks they should have done more to

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Speaker 2: restrain Israel. And I'm wondering if you have any regrets

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Speaker 2: because now you're voting in a somewhat different way, you know,

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Speaker 2: both with the NDAA shift in position, with the massive

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Speaker 2: amendment saying hey, we should blockade. I want to send

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Speaker 2: a message to net Yahoo. At the peak of the

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Speaker 2: you know, the gaza onslaught, you had a complete siege,

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Speaker 2: you had entire neighborhoods that were leveled. They created the

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Speaker 2: largest population of child amputees. Do you have any regrets

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Speaker 2: about your votes during that time period?

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Speaker 3: I don't because everyone forgets about October seventh. Everyone forgets

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Speaker 3: about what Hamas and Husbald and Ron have done, and

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Speaker 3: their desire is to wipe out the state of Israel

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Speaker 3: and all the Jews living there. Is that not I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's in Hamas's charter, and Hamas is still extent. They're

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Speaker 3: still doing that. I don't like the way Israel decided

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Speaker 3: to defend themselves, but the solution being proposed is and

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Speaker 3: this is the consequence of what you're saying is sorry.

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Speaker 3: You know, we had this idea back in nineteen forty eight.

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Speaker 3: We were going to give you a state and that

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Speaker 3: way you could protect yourselfie and so all these tacks

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Speaker 3: didn't work out. So go back to Europe, go wherever.

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Speaker 3: This just isn't going to work anymore. I think the question,

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Speaker 3: I don't think you understand how difficult that is to

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Speaker 3: just go Yeah, I guess that's fine, because no, I

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Speaker 3: think the question.

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Speaker 2: Of let me and this is not you know, this

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Speaker 2: is my perspective, but I think this is also what

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Speaker 2: the Democratic Party base in particular and most of the

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Speaker 2: country view at this point is why should our tax

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Speaker 2: dollars given all the things in the world and all

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Speaker 2: the things in our country.

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Speaker 3: Why I voted it should be That's why I voted for.

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Speaker 2: The mask, you know, in the more effective ways. Exactly

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Speaker 2: why should that be going to prop up no state

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Speaker 2: that is an apartheid state? And I wonder if you

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Speaker 2: agree with that characterization that has been committing. If you

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Speaker 2: don't want to say genocide, certainly war crimes with that

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Speaker 2: tax money.

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Speaker 3: That's fine. Yeah, Look, no, that's why I vote for

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Speaker 3: the MASSI a moment, I don't think we should be

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Speaker 3: sending that money over there. But look, I have concerns

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Speaker 3: about Hamas, about Hesbola that people don't seem to share.

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Speaker 3: You know, Let's say that this plays out the way

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Speaker 3: you describe, and okay, there is no Jewish youth, no state,

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Speaker 3: and the consequence of that is there is no Jewish state. Basically,

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Speaker 3: you have the Palestinians As they would now be governing

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Speaker 3: that area, and that means Hamos would be governing that area.

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Speaker 3: Do you have any problem with that? Do you have

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Speaker 3: any problem with Hamas suddenly becoming a much more powerful

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Speaker 3: entity and having the country you know, from the river

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Speaker 3: to the sea, if you will, will now be a

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Speaker 3: Hamas run state on the Mediterranean. Are you okay with that?

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Speaker 2: First of all, I'm not convinced that that would be

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Speaker 2: the reality. Well, I don't know how you can get

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Speaker 2: a way from how illiberal it is to not support

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Speaker 2: equal rights for people, regardless of it there, Jewish, Arab, Muslim, totally, totally.

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Speaker 2: But then the other pieces. Do you support two state solution?

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Speaker 2: Is that your idea?

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Speaker 3: Look? Yes, how do we get there? How do we

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Speaker 3: get there? Stop? Stop?

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Speaker 2: Stop?

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Speaker 3: Hold on?

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Speaker 2: Hold on? Do we get there at a time when

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Speaker 2: you have settlements that have made it stop effectively impossible?

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Speaker 3: There's something that.

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Speaker 2: Makes sense in order to create a Palestinian state.

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Speaker 3: Look, let's go back to what you said. I support

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Speaker 3: a two state solutions. I am also aware of the

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Speaker 3: fact that it's probably no longer possible. You didn't let

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Speaker 3: me get that part out, Okay, okay, which is really

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Speaker 3: kind of important to this whole conversation. I would agree,

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Speaker 3: And it's very disappointing. I mean, and there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of blame to go around for why we got there. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I would like to see a two state solution. I

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Speaker 3: am not naive as you just described, to know that

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Speaker 3: it's simply not on the table at this point, and

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Speaker 3: that creates a massive, massive problem. But the idea again

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Speaker 3: that the easy solution is, okay, we get rid of

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Speaker 3: the Jewish ethno state and the details of how Israel

403
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Speaker 3: is currently running you know, their country. There are there

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Speaker 3: are Arabs in the parliament, but there are parts of

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Speaker 3: it that aren't okay. So we get rid of that. Okay.

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Speaker 3: So what's your idea for what replaces that. You say

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Speaker 3: you're not convinced that it'll be a Hamas run thing.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've offered that, listen. I really honestly think that

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Speaker 2: this is something for Palestinians and Israelis to decide. I

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Speaker 2: don't know why it is. Can I get American tax payer?

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Speaker 2: There's a new business to fund this. That's why I

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Speaker 2: voted for the massive ideas. Incredible, you're saying, you know

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Speaker 2: you don't support a you know there is one solution.

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Speaker 2: You don't support the two states. So there is no

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Speaker 2: good solution. That's where you are. That is the reality

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Speaker 2: of where.

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Speaker 3: We are now. And I'm no good and I'm open ideas.

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Speaker 3: But let's understand the history of this. There's a great

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Speaker 3: book called Palestine nineteen thirty six that describe what was

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Speaker 3: going on there. So you were coming to the end

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Speaker 3: of the British mandate, and you had the Jews had

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Speaker 3: been coming in since the nineteenth century. They had been

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Speaker 3: there a long, long time ago, and they were looking for,

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Speaker 3: you know, a place to be. The Palestinians. We're looking

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Speaker 3: to drive out the British and the Palaestinisian Arabs reached

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Speaker 3: a conclusion in the mid nineteen thirties and said, okay, Jews,

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Speaker 3: you can stay, but you're not going to run anything. Okay.

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Speaker 3: Jews said, now we can't say so they started a

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Speaker 3: civil war okay, and they fought, and then of course

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Speaker 3: nineteen forty eight they got the country created. Another war

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Speaker 3: was started a war and I know people say, well,

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Speaker 3: this is all a war to drive the Palestinians out.

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Speaker 3: It was also a war to eliminate Israel, to basically

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Speaker 3: kill Israel in the crib in nineteen forty eight, and

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Speaker 3: they fought and they fought, and they fought and they fought,

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Speaker 3: and at no point was there ever anything carved out

437
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 3: for the Jews. And so the Jews have been fighting

438
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 3: an existential fight. And it just it's so.

439
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 2: Hard for me to because I know you consider yourself

440
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 2: I think liberally, you would describe yourself that way, like

441
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 2: in the classical liberal sense.

442
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 3: But there's no liberal option on the table. That's what

443
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 3: I'm telling you. Why saying, but what nobody Jews illebal Jews,

444
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 3: we cannot have why illiberal Palestinians are fine? No, but

445
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 3: why I voted forward? It shouldn't, Why shoulder it shouldn't? Okay?

446
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 2: So and is that is that your answer for this

447
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,199
Speaker 2: particular amendment or will that continue to.

448
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 3: Be your poquestion moving That's where we're at.

449
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 2: So you're done with the US funding Israel? I think

450
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 2: working out themselves.

451
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 3: I'm not one hundred percent, I gotta say. I mean, look,

452
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 3: if if if tomorrow there's a peace agreement, okay, and

453
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 3: they actually go forward with something where they create a

454
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 3: reasonable alternative for the Palestinians in Gaza, if they actually

455
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 3: stop what they're doing in the West Bank and get

456
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 3: the piece in Lebanon, that may change it. I don't

457
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 3: see that happening, which is why I give you the

458
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 3: answer I gave. But again that this this notion that

459
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 3: somehow there's a liberal option on the table, and how

460
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 3: could we possibly support the illiberal state of Israel. What's

461
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 3: going to come in there. Okay, it's going to be liberal.

462
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 3: Now I'm on the taxpayer dollar.

463
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 2: You mentioned Rama manual speech, you said you associate yourself

464
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 2: if memory serves, he supports banking sanctions on Israel. You

465
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: know we sanctioned our Times South Africa. You support that.

466
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 3: I am the one of the original co sponsors of

467
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 3: the what is it, it's the West Bank Violence Prevention Act,

468
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 3: which sanctions Israel for what they're doing in the West Bank. Yes, absolutely,

469
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 3: it's wrong, it shouldn't be done. Yes, we should sanction them,

470
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 3: and we should specifically sanction smoke Rich and Benevier, who

471
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 3: are advocating so much of this.

472
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 2: Yes, let's move on to some of these broader disagreements.

473
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: And I guess a good transition into that is how

474
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 2: much do you think the question of the relationship with

475
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 2: Israel Palestine is serving as a litmus test in democratic primaries.

476
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 2: You know, from my perspective, it's been very important because

477
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: it serves as a proxy for kind of a host

478
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 2: of other issues concerns that the Democratic base has with

479
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party at this point. But I'm curious your

480
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: perspective on how important that has become and the reason

481
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: why you think it has become an important issue, it's.

482
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 3: Becoming more important. It's not the most important issue, the

483
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 3: most important issue, and it's not even close to the

484
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 3: most important issue in these primaries. The most important issue

485
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 3: that is driving the anti establishment feelings in the primaries

486
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 3: is two things. Number one, the belief that we have

487
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 3: not effectively fought Trump. Okay, when you look at what

488
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 3: really drives these people, Yes, Israel's part of it, but

489
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 3: it's also going after you were part of the establishment,

490
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 3: how come you didn't beat Trump? Now I have a

491
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 3: complaint here, and that is that a lot of the

492
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 3: policies of the DSA and the left, open borders, defund

493
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 3: the police, the idea that you can't possibly spend enough

494
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 3: government money, identity politics, a lot of those things are

495
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 3: what gave Trump his power. And part of the reason

496
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 3: those of us in the establishment struggle to beat Donald

497
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 3: Trump is we were having to defend policies like open borders, okay,

498
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 3: and Trump walked right into that. All right. So the

499
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 3: notion that there is is just the establishment that led

500
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 3: to Trump losing, I think is in this place, fact, can.

501
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: We pause there for one second, Go ahead, get to your.

502
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 3: Critics, true, you know, and so, and I certainly, But

503
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 3: I also think that the established Democratic Party, I mean,

504
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 3: the whole Joe Biden thing nominating you know, even thinking

505
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 3: about nominating Joe Biden in well, because he was he

506
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 3: couldn't I don't care how old he is. He just

507
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 3: couldn't speak Okay, he couldn't communicate clearly.

508
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 2: You know.

509
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 3: Whether that was because he was old or because he

510
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 3: couldn't communicate clearly, you know, it had the same effect.

511
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 3: And then the second big issue is income inequality. It

512
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 3: is absolutely true that whoever has been governing for the

513
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 3: last twenty or thirty years hasn't done enough to create

514
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 3: opportunities for enough people. Those two issues, I think really

515
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 3: drove the feeling of let's try something different. Now. The

516
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 3: question is whether or not the DSA agenda of you know,

517
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 3: is actually going to achieve either of those objectives. Is

518
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 3: that what's going to help us defeat Trump and MAGA?

519
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 3: Is that what is going to build a more broad

520
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 3: based economic thing. But this is where I am very

521
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,239
Speaker 3: sympathetic with the DSA. I'm an economic populist, all right.

522
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 3: I think we should rewrite the tax code to actually

523
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 3: tax rich people. I've been working with a woman Ray Madoff.

524
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 3: She's a professor of Boston College who wrote a book

525
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 3: about how we built our tax code so that the

526
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 3: investors don't ever pay taxes. Let's change that. Okay, I'm

527
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 3: very pro union. I stock buybacks. Why do we have

528
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 3: stock buybacks? They didn't exist prior to nineteen eighty two,

529
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 3: so obviously corporations can exist without them. On that agenda,

530
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 3: I'm there. You know. Part of the problem I have

531
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 3: with the broader agenda is you can't have free stuff

532
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 3: for everybody all the time. A and another message that

533
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 3: the left gave us in the last ten years was

534
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 3: that deficits and debts don't matter. Are you familiar with

535
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: modern monetary theory, of course, Yeah, it's absurd. The idea

536
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 3: that we just spend as much money as possible is

537
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 3: not a problem. Now. I want to tax people. I

538
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 3: want a better social welfare state. But to argue that

539
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 3: we could have a better social welfare state because the

540
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 3: debt doesn't matter, I think we kind reminds the.

541
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 2: Credibility of that every line of the US dollar and

542
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: potential risking of the US dollars a reserve currency. It's

543
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: something we have to think more about now.

544
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 3: But here's lets understatement, by the way, because you.

545
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: Drilled down a little bit on a few things you've said.

546
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: So you've argued both from a most of your argument

547
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 2: against the DSA thus far, I think you could characterize

548
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: as an electability argument. You've no, no, no, no no

549
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 2: no no no no no, no, no no no.

550
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 3: It's bad policy. Okay, So I don't think having unlimited

551
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 3: immigration is sustainable. I don't think my question, getting rid

552
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 3: of the criminal justice system is a smart way to govern.

553
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 3: It's not just electability.

554
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 2: Here's a question I have for you. So back in

555
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, you work together with Primilegaia Paul on a

556
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: bill to abolish ICE, which.

557
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 3: Is a key Yeah. I worked with her on Here's

558
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 3: what the bill did. Okay, well it's here.

559
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 2: We haven't We have an article here from the Seattle

560
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: Time as your local paper, US Repstramentlajia Paul and Adam

561
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 2: Smith am to abolish ICE, restructure immigration and force exactly.

562
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: You were one of the Democrats actually who was in

563
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: office when you vote.

564
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 3: I tell you what this actually does.

565
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: We can.

566
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 2: Well, Number one, do you still do you still support this?

567
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 3: Let me tell you what it does. Because you still

568
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 3: support that doesn't help anything, because what is can? I cannot?

569
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course at first? Do you support that? You're

570
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: can explain more in detail what it is.

571
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 3: Let me tell you what it is, okay, okay, Yes,

572
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 3: when we created the Department of Homeland Security, we took

573
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 3: immigration enforcement away from the Justice Department and we put

574
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 3: it into DHS and created ICE.

575
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: Correct.

576
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 3: What this does is it puts immigration enforcement back at

577
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 3: the Justice.

578
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: Department and get the rid of ICE.

579
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 3: Right. Well, it gets me, no, but.

580
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: That's the position too. But you're we're on the same

581
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: page here, yes, but.

582
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: It doesn't get rid of immigration enforcement.

583
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So let me let me hold account again.

584
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 2: Tell me which candidates specifically not a policy paper that

585
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 2: they're theoretically so, which candidates have said we should get

586
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: rid of all immigration?

587
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 3: I forget the name that the woman who beat Andrew

588
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 3: esque alot, absolutely Chevalier.

589
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 2: So you have one candidate who said that. Do you

590
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: think that do you think that her views should be

591
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: associated with everyone on the under the DSA label, or

592
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 2: do you think that you have valuated.

593
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: Individually many many conversations with many many immigration advocates, and

594
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 3: I always ask them and look, I'm in favor of

595
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 3: a robust immigration system. I think what immigration enforcement is

596
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 3: doing right now is an absolute crime, okay, and it

597
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 3: should be limited. I think we should go back to

598
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 3: the Justice Department. That's why I said.

599
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: And you still support the bills, absolutely, you support abolishing ice.

600
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: Abolishing ICE is just a rhetorical yes, it's you don't.

601
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: But the problem is it means different things to different people. Okay,

602
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 3: if you're talking about no, let's go back to a

603
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 3: Justice Department enforcement mechanism, that's fine. But there are a

604
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 3: lot more people who support eliminating enforcement. And let me

605
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 3: tell you the question I always let me tell you,

606
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 3: giving me one let me tell you. Let me tell

607
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 3: you the question I always ask and the answer I

608
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 3: always get from dozens of different immigration advacy groups. I said, look,

609
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 3: in order for this work, you have to be able

610
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 3: to tell me who would you deport and who wouldn't

611
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 3: you let into the country? And they literally never answer that.

612
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: Are they in Congress? They Here's here's my other question

613
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 2: for you, is you know, do you want to take

614
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: the most extreme positions that you can find in the

615
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: DSA platform or that Let me let me finish my question, please,

616
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: that one candidate Daria le'sas Chavalier, who I agree has

617
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: positions that I think are can legitimately be characterized as radical. Right,

618
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 2: you want to take those positions and you want to

619
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: tire an entire group of candidates with them as you

620
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: aren't you? Hold on, aren't you effectively doing the work

621
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: of the Republicans?

622
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 3: There? Yes, that's all these people.

623
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: They're all so crazy they don't want any borders.

624
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 3: Let me consolidated. You've done your let me do.

625
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: They could easily characterize your abolished position as just as

626
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: crazy and radical as Daria Liza.

627
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 3: But but I can't because that the justice to burn's

628
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 3: going forth. Let'll ask you this. Joe Biden his policy okay,

629
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 3: so not just one person in a platform whatever. Do

630
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 3: you think his policy was to lax in terms of

631
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 3: border security?

632
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 2: I don't, but I acknowledge that politically that helped fuel

633
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 2: the rise of the return of Donald Trump.

634
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: So let me say that is something.

635
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: But hold on a second. Which wing of the Democratic

636
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: Party does Joe Biden come from. He doesn't come from

637
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: the DSA left, does he? He comes from the establishment.

638
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: And so to go back to one of the origins

639
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 2: comes from.

640
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 3: How did he go?

641
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 4: Well?

642
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: He funded the genocide. So you governed in a lot

643
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 2: of right wing ways. But to go back to your

644
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 2: original point about electability, I think it's very hard.

645
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 3: I never made a point about it.

646
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: You said that you thought that these positions. If you

647
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: listen to your original answer, you said you thought these

648
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: positions for the DSA were part of what brought that

649
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: Donald fair.

650
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: Yes, but there's also policy concerns, okay.

651
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 2: But on the electability point, how can you argue that

652
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: your camp within the Democratic Party has a lot of

653
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 2: credence when it comes to electability.

654
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 3: When I.

655
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 2: Argued with you, when pillary Clinton loses to Trump, Biden

656
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 2: wins by adopting some left wing views, then loses to Trump,

657
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 2: it was the establishment that props him up, that forced

658
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 2: war of a primary. So how could it be the

659
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 2: fault of the left. It's not that we're losing.

660
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 3: There's three things, okay. I always say that the fall

661
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 3: of the Democratic Party is a tragedy in three acts. Okay.

662
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 3: Number one, we didn't do enough on the economic issues,

663
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 3: and I think that that Obama and Clinton get way

664
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 3: too much of the blame for that. I think they

665
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: really tried to get after broader economic issues. Certainly the

666
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 3: Affordable Care Act, a whole lot of other provisions that

667
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: were put in there, but we didn't do enough on

668
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 3: economic anequality. Number two, the left came along and took

669
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 3: some positions that weakened us. I'm not blaming one group.

670
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 3: Everyone's like, well, you're blaming us, what about them? It's like,

671
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 3: there can be collective responsibility. Okay, it's not an either

672
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 3: or choice. Yes, we didn't do enough in economics. And

673
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 3: then some of the positions of the left, And there

674
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 3: were a lot of people running around. And when people

675
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 3: say abolish ice, do they mean abolished enforcement or do

676
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 3: they mean change enforcement? Okay, And that's what you get

677
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: into that difficult issue. We've had criminal justice problems. You

678
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 3: know that defund the police movement did not help us

679
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 3: in any way. And it was a thing and oh no,

680
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 3: we never did that, okay. And then three Joe Biden. Yeah,

681
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 3: those three things are what led to us and you

682
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 3: and every time, and I want to bring them all in.

683
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 3: But people say, well, if you blame the left, you're

684
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 3: just being a Republican. Well can't we learn as we go?

685
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 2: Well, my problem is not with your I have my

686
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: own critiques of the left.

687
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 3: Right.

688
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 2: I think that not. I actually think the identity politics

689
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: thing came out of the Hillary Clinton campaign and was

690
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: a way for the establishment to beat back the rise

691
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: of the Bernie Sanders left. No doubt the left embraced it.

692
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: I have been a critic of quote unquote woke, although

693
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: I hate the word. At this point, I generally politics.

694
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 2: That's my you know, my position. I'm a class first leftist,

695
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 2: so I have my own critiques here. I'm not I'm

696
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: not saying you can't. I'm saying, when you caricature an

697
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: entire wary at this.

698
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 3: Point, aren't you character the entire wing of the centrist

699
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 3: and saying they we're all like no, because I'm not.

700
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to say you have the same views

701
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: as John Fetterman. I don't think that you do, or

702
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: Josh s Goottheimer for that matter. And I'm not saying

703
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 2: that you are trying to take the views of let's say,

704
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: Darry Visa and the DSA platform and saying this is

705
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: what the entire.

706
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: Not just I'm just saying, well, it's an issue and

707
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 3: it's a challenge.

708
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: Let me get you to So. I think the most

709
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: prominent example of socialist governance in the US right now

710
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: is zorimm Donnie in New York City. He got asked

711
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 2: a question that's very relevant to this conversation about you

712
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 2: know what about people who are concerned about socialism, are

713
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 2: concerned about democratic socialism. Let me get you to respond

714
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 2: to what he had to say. This as E.

715
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 3: Two.

716
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 4: For all of the fear mongering around democratic socialism, the

717
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 4: best response is to show what it actually means. And

718
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 4: what we've shown over the last six months is exactly that.

719
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 4: We've shown that a city with a democratic socialist vision

720
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 4: is one that paves more than one hundred and seventy

721
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 4: thousand potholes, fifty thousand more than the prior administration by

722
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 4: this point. It's a city that has delivered the lowest

723
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 4: recorded number of shootings and shooting victims and murders in

724
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 4: New York City's history. It is a city that is

725
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 4: on a pathway to universal childcare, saving thousands of parents

726
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 4: more than twenty thousand dollars a year. And it's a

727
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 4: city that is doing all of these things while fighting

728
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 4: for the people who are often left behind, workers who

729
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 4: we've secured more than ten million dollars for tenants, more

730
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 4: than sixty four million dollars. These are all indicators of

731
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 4: what is so scary to a right wing that has

732
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 4: built its entire power and framework on the idea of

733
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 4: debating who should be left behind.

734
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: So is Zorn's version of socialism a version that you

735
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 2: could get on board lot, since he's really focused on

736
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 2: the affordability pieces they need.

737
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 3: I'm encouraged by what he's doing, and I think that

738
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 3: form of trying to get things done. That's the other

739
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 3: problem is so much of the left, and certainly we

740
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 3: experienced this in Seattle. You know, became an academic exercise.

741
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 3: They were spending all day long talking about, you know,

742
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 3: the history of racism, as opposed to going out in

743
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 3: the community and saying, these are people who've been discriminated against.

744
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 3: Let's get them access to capital so they can start businesses.

745
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 3: Let's get them access to capital so they can get homes.

746
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 3: Let's do a job, you know, let's let's do workforce

747
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 3: development so they can get jobs. It became even academic

748
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 3: exercise about the history of the US and about you know,

749
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 3: are we, you know, just an irreversibly bigoted racist and

750
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 3: that's all interesting? What are we doing to govern effectively?

751
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 3: And actually everything that mom, Donnie said, right there, I'm

752
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 3: encouraged if you govern and focus on getting things done,

753
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 3: so called sewer socialism from back in the day, you

754
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 3: know when you had mayors who were socialist because they're

755
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 3: going to go ahead and work. That's great as an

756
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 3: academic exercise. Will you want to explain to me the

757
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 3: history of oppression when you say things to me like well,

758
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 3: that person can make that argument because of the power dynamic,

759
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 3: and we operate in this weird intellectual world that's got

760
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 3: nothing to do with practical problem solving and logic. Okay,

761
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 3: that's where I have a problem. You know, Michelle wou

762
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 3: up in Boston, also on the left governing really well.

763
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 3: There are other folks who haven't governed so well because

764
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 3: they got trapped in this sort of ideological thing with

765
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 3: the whole focus was on oppressed and oppression as opposed

766
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 3: to actually governing. Well. So, yes, I am encouraged by

767
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 3: what I've seen in the last what are we now,

768
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 3: six seven months in Mondani's term. You know, I'm a

769
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 3: working class, blue collar kid. I'm in favor of economic

770
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 3: populism and a socialism can work on that level. Now,

771
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 3: I think you also have to recognize that private industry

772
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 3: has to be part of it. Okay, we have to

773
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: have businesses that grow. But yeah, you know, I had

774
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 3: someone that was up in New York a month or

775
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 3: so ago and someone said, you know, the problem is

776
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 3: we took the guard rails off capitalism. And know of

777
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 3: the course the last fifty years, that's what we did.

778
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 3: We took the guard rails off capitalism. So let's put

779
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 3: those guard rails back on. And if you want to

780
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 3: call it socialism, whatever you want to call it, I

781
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 3: don't care. But let's govern more effective.

782
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: So let me ask you. Then Josh Gottthheimer said, if

783
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 2: you're a socialist, you're not a democrat. It sounds like

784
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: you don't agree with that.

785
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 3: No, I mean, but again, the problem with this, and

786
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 3: it's the whole abolishized thing. You throw a term out

787
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 3: that means fifteen different things to fifteen different people, and

788
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 3: then you're like, do you support this? It's like, which

789
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 3: one of the fifteen versions are you talking?

790
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 2: I'm not asking you to support it. But he and

791
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: others have said, basically, we don't want these people in

792
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: the party. Well, we don't want to share the tent

793
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 2: with them. It doesn't sound like you're in that place.

794
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 4: I am not.

795
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 3: Now. I think we ought to be able to have

796
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 3: a conversation about the issues. I was sick to death

797
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 3: and you did it to me again when I was

798
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 3: trying to say, hey, look on immigration, you know we

799
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 3: need to show that we are in favor of enforcement. Well,

800
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 3: you're just giving me Republican talking points. I didn't say that. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no,

801
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 3: said something, but no, no, no conversation about it.

802
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,439
Speaker 2: What I said is that when you take the most

803
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 2: radical position of one person or from a policy platform,

804
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 2: and you paint with a broad brush, you're handing Republicans

805
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: and talking, well, this is what these people are. And

806
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: what I'm saying is that you could easily be put

807
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 2: into that camp. Sure, given some of your positions that

808
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 2: you continue to hold. For example, whether you want to

809
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: call it dismantling ICE or reorganizing ICE, need to do

810
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it's start getting rid of it.

811
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 3: It's not actually a joke. It's how are you going

812
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 3: to enforce it? What sort of enforcement are you going

813
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 3: to do? And it's going back to the Justice Department

814
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 3: makes sense to me, and you know ICE would no

815
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 3: longer exist, But you'd still have immigration enforcement.

816
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: But this is the biggest could you actually I am

817
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 2: curious your view, because the counter to that would be, well,

818
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 2: if you're just going to do enforcement, ay, why not

819
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: just keep ICE and reform ICE? Right, there's a you know,

820
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 2: some group of people would say, oh, it's too radical

821
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: to get rid of ICE, we need to just reform

822
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 2: it vet better. I just think, et cetera, why do

823
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 2: you think that it needs to be take Because I

824
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 2: obviously agree with what Trump has done with it.

825
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 3: I think just puts it in a category. And I

826
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 3: don't know. I mean, theoretically within the Department of Homeland Security,

827
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 3: I suppose you could have immigration enforcement that made sense,

828
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 3: But I think at this point we need a clean break.

829
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 3: And look, the biggest thing that I want in all

830
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: of this is the ability to have a conversation, all right,

831
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 3: And this is where this is my biggest problem with

832
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 3: the left. I have been unable to hold a town

833
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 3: hall meeting for a year because a bunch of leftists

834
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 3: show up and scream at me and don't let anyone

835
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 3: else speak. We had a hearing in the University of

836
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 3: Washington on whether or not to divest from Israel. After

837
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 3: all the protets. We're going to have a hearing. So

838
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 3: the first three people got up and testified in favor

839
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 3: of divesting. Fourth person got up and testified against divesting.

840
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 3: Two sentences in, shouted down, screamed at, wouldn't stop the meeting.

841
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 3: The meeting, you talk about illiberal, okay, having people stay

842
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 3: it out in front of my house, you screaming death

843
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 3: threats at me and threatening my wife. Okay. And the left,

844
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 3: oh well, of course we don't support we're peace activists.

845
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,959
Speaker 3: We would never do something like that. Okay, how about

846
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 3: you just say no, they did it, it's wrong, We're

847
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 3: against it. We are going to be liberal, We're going

848
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 3: to stand up for stuff. I think that whole thing

849
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 3: has created a major problem as well, and that's what

850
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 3: I try to have these conversations and people out you're

851
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 3: just a trump supporting it. We have to be able

852
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 3: to have a discussion. I guess positive thing. I think

853
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: Mamdani has done that. I don't agree with that meaning

854
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 3: he's doing, but he's having legitimate, thoughtful conversation instead of

855
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 3: screening matches over who can threaten the loudest.

856
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: Let me just last question, because I know you have

857
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: a briefing that you need to get to as a

858
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 2: result of your vote on the massive amendment which would

859
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 2: block aid to Israel. Apax said, basically, we're done with

860
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 2: this guy pulled your name off their fundraising website. You're

861
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: a person who you know, you are in a very

862
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 2: important position for them, ranking member. They've given you a

863
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 2: lot of money in the past. Have you spoken to

864
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 2: them about that decision? And would you in the future?

865
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: Do you want their money back? Because I know Pat

866
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 2: Ryan was in a similar situation, he said, I'm done

867
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 2: with them. I don't want their money. You know, I

868
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 2: think I don't think that we should.

869
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 3: This is another thing that I've ever bought any well.

870
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: I'm not just my question, he said, effectively, you know,

871
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 2: I don't think we should be in league with this

872
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: right wing foreign government and an organization that supports it.

873
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: Do you share that view or you would be open

874
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 2: to taking their money again.

875
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 3: I'd be open. I mean, I'd given my position. I

876
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 3: don't think that's going to happen. It's always been my position.

877
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 3: I vote take positions, and people decide whether or not

878
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 3: to donate. And that's another thing that I don't think

879
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 3: the last should take no money from corporations. Corporations are

880
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 3: evil or awful, they're terribly I don't think that's in

881
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 3: keeping how the country is going to run. We need

882
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 3: businesses and look, I've had many donors.

883
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 2: I mean as not a business but well no, but

884
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 2: but but.

885
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 3: But it goes beyond a pack. You know, we're not

886
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 3: supposed to take any money from any people. How can

887
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 3: you put I think that position divides us, and not

888
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: necessarily as far as a pack is concerned. You understand

889
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 3: that they count anyone who's ever donated to a pack.

890
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 3: I have a lot of friends that the supporters, going

891
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 3: back decades give money to a pack and give money

892
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 3: to me. Okay, I'm not going to you have.

893
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 2: Taken a pack contributions.

894
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 3: It's not ano characters, no, no, no, no, absolutely, but

895
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 3: the whole broad thing of you know, I well, they

896
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 3: make it.

897
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,479
Speaker 2: In fairness because I think it's very difficult thing to track.

898
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 2: They intentionally, you know, they create a well and they

899
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 2: try to hide some of this money now that it's

900
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 2: become a toxic name. But final, real last question for you.

901
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 2: Adela side run in Michigan against Representative Hailey Stevens. APAC

902
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 2: and affiliated groups have spent thirty million dollars in that

903
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 2: race to support Hailey Stevens. You're someone who is concerned

904
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 2: about democracy. I mean, do you see that as a

905
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 2: crisis for democracy when you have tens of millions of

906
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: dollars of outside money where there's a path or big

907
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 2: farm or whoever. I think coming in and backing one candidate,

908
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 2: is that something that should be banned democratic bumberies.

909
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 3: I support McCain fine Gold and I think Citizens United

910
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 3: was one of the two or three worst Supreme Court

911
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 3: decisions ever made. You ought to be able to limit

912
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 3: iees and I don't care if it's coming from business,

913
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 3: if it's coming from apac, if it's coming from labor,

914
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 3: if it's coming because left groups have big ies too.

915
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 3: I mean everyone acts like they don't have any money.

916
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 3: I remember the.

917
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 2: It's no competition for what's coming in on the other side.

918
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: But just to put a fine point on it, the

919
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 2: Democratic Party could itself. You know, it's hard to change

920
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: the Constitution and the Supreme Court, et cetera Democratic party

921
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 2: itself could ban that type of spending. They can in primers,

922
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: they can. They can cut their own of course they can,

923
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: and they can set their own rules for how their

924
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 2: own primaries are run.

925
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:04,439
Speaker 3: They can't block an ie.

926
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 2: Yes they can.

927
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 3: No, they can't. What are you talking.

928
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 2: They can set their own rules for what type of

929
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 2: money can be spent in these campaigns. Is that something

930
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: you would support? I would, but you would, But you

931
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 2: don't believe that it's possible.

932
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: No, the i ees are independent. They can do what

933
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 3: they want to do. The Democratic Party can't come You

934
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 3: think the Democratic Party could just come in and tell

935
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 3: Apak not to spend money.

936
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 1: Yeah.

937
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: I think they could run their own primaries the way

938
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 2: they want to run their primaries and set the rules

939
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 2: for that. They absolutely could. That's something that was part

940
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: of the debate for the last DNC chair. I'll have

941
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: to look in people look at it in theory, you

942
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 2: would support it.

943
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 3: I would support anything that band's ies. But i ees

944
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 3: are by thee.

945
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: It's a problem for democracy wherever the money is coming from. Absolutely, Congressman,

946
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 2: spirited exchange. I appreciate it, genuinely, Thank you for coming in.

947
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 3: Happy to do it.