1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, fellow conspiracy realist. This Evening's classic episode. 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: Just so you know, it's kind of biased. I'm gonna 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: be honest. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: think children should be put in prison. 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 2: Hot take from mister Bolin. But I think one that 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: we all. 7 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 3: Share, humanity, especially the United States, has attempted to grapple 8 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 3: with that question, right, what do you do with a 9 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 3: child when they have committed an act that is pretty heinous, 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 3: that would put an adult in like behind bars for 11 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 3: the rest of their life. 12 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 4: What do you do? 13 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 2: I think we all probably learned that term for the 14 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: first time in movies where you hear you'll be tried 15 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 2: as an adult, stuff like that. 16 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm tried as an adult constantly. Now 17 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: I don't like it so and for too many millennia 18 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: now right, it's getting old. But in this classic episode, 19 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: which is really more of an interview than an episode, 20 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: we were very fortunate to speak with to speak with 21 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: noted activists Julian Wyatt and Julian talks specifically not just 22 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: about incarceration of juvenile humans, but also a question that 23 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: people often skip over when an adult is arrested when 24 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: a parent is arrested, what happens to their kids? They're 25 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: kids who have done nothing wrong. 26 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 5: Let's find out. 27 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 6: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is 28 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 6: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 29 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 6: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. 30 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 4: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 31 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 4: name is Nola. 32 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 5: They call me Ben. 33 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: We are joined with our super producer, Paul the po 34 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: decand but most importantly, you are you and you are here, 35 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 36 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: Parole officer or you know. We're big fans of acronyms. 37 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: Just mail us your favorite, mail us your off Oh boy, 38 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: uh yeah, right now. Usually Paul will have a talkback 39 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: Mike turned on so he can tell us how lame 40 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: he thinks our jokes are. 41 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 5: We took it away because he was hurting our feelings. 42 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: So he's throwing us thumbs up and thumbs down. My friend, 43 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: let's hope we do him proud. That was just shade, 44 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: all right, And we have you know, you can tell 45 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: we all get along famously, folks, And we have a 46 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: lot of levity on this show. And part of the 47 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: reason that we're opening with some jokes today is because 48 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 1: today we are going to examine something that is incredibly important, 49 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: not just in the US, but in the world overall. 50 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: And it's also something that isn't fully explored in your 51 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: typical mainstream news stories. You'll maybe hear five minutes about 52 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: something right on CNN or on MSNBC or Fox News 53 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: or whatever, whatever your news program of choice is. 54 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 3: This is a topic today that you probably won't know 55 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 3: a lot about unless it's touched your life in some 56 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 3: way very close within a few degrees. 57 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean, and now we are seeing some very 58 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: alarmists I would say, reasonably so headlines that is pushing 59 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: some of the stuff to the forefront, which we'll get 60 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: into as well, but beyond that, it's certainly not something 61 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 2: that was across my day to day thinking. 62 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: Friends and neighbors. If you are a resident of the 63 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: United States, you've probably heard about the burgeoning and longstanding 64 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: problems with this country's justice and incarceration system, and our 65 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: episode today focuses on another aspect of that system that 66 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: the authorities, the politicians, and yes, the private prison companies 67 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: would probably rather you not know much about. That is 68 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: its effect on children, and as you know if you 69 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: are a longtime listener, one of Matt nolan I's favorite 70 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: things to do when we are tackling a topic of 71 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: this magnitude is to find an expert, and luckily this 72 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: time we succeeded. We would like to introduce to Julian Wyatt. Julian, 73 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: thank you for coming on the show. 74 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 7: Thank you for having me. 75 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 3: Julian, tell us tell us about the organization you're a 76 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 3: part of and what you do within that organization. 77 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 7: Yeah. 78 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 8: So, Forever Family is an Atlanta based nonprofit that was 79 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 8: founded in nineteen eighty seven by Sandra Barnhill. She's still 80 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 8: the current executive director and CEO. The work we do 81 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 8: is pretty much aimed at maintaining and preserving the family 82 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 8: bond for children or families who are experiencing incarceration. So 83 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 8: one of our taglines is surrounding children with the love 84 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 8: of family. But that's also like our approach as well. 85 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 8: So one of the most popular and longest running programs 86 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 8: is that the Family Visitation Program where we once a 87 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 8: month gather up all the children and involving the organization, 88 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 8: and we provide transportation as well as meals to the children. 89 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 8: As well as caregivers, and we make about a three 90 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 8: hour drive they are and back to three of the 91 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 8: four women prison women women prisons within here in Georgia, 92 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 8: so that's Emmanuel Lee Arundale as well as Pulowski. Other 93 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 8: than that, you know, we just want to make sure 94 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 8: that you know, children are still aware that you know, 95 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 8: they're not alone with this experience, a sleeping with those. 96 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 8: For the parents who are incarcerated, we provide different workshops 97 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,559 Speaker 8: throughout the year so they can you know, feel confident 98 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 8: about their abilities to still be involved in their child's 99 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 8: life while they're serving there are prison sentenced and for 100 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 8: the caregivers as well, which is also left out of 101 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 8: the popular narrative, we provide different support and services for 102 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 8: them to ease the financial burden as they take care of, 103 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 8: you know, some of the children involved. 104 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: And for real quick statistical backgrounds here, we know that 105 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: the US represents about four point four percent of the 106 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: world's total population but houses around twenty two percent of 107 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: the world's prisoners. And it was shocking to us. It 108 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: was shocking to us that children were not included or 109 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: were missed in the narrative. As you say, we'd like 110 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: to ask a couple of questions about the kids themselves. 111 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: Do they have a typical age range or does it 112 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: go across the spectrum. 113 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 8: It's us either across this spetrum. So even for our organization, 114 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 8: we work from infants all the way up through to 115 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 8: the age of eighteen. 116 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 3: Wow, So these are you said, you're primarily servicing women's prisons, 117 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 3: and so these are moms that you're going to visit. Yes, 118 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 3: and you're taking the children to go visit their. 119 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 4: Moms in prison. Correct? You have you actually physically gone 120 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 4: along with some of these visitations. 121 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 8: I have my first present visitation back in twenty fourteen 122 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 8: when I was first interning at Forever Family, and it's 123 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 8: a powerful and moving experience. We get to the organization 124 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 8: about five o'clock in the morning. We provide you know, 125 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 8: meals to the children. You know, we try to just 126 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 8: make it as upbeat and friendly as possible though, because 127 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 8: I know for some they are excited and also for 128 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 8: some it's kind of a difficult, you know, difficult situation. 129 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 8: But we you know, we make sure that they have 130 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 8: you know, food on the bus ride theirs. When we 131 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 8: get in there, we have to check in, which is 132 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 8: like an hour loan process. It's no joke from background 133 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 8: checks we all have to get once we get there. 134 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 8: If you're a child, I think under the age of 135 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 8: thirteen you're still able to go into the children's center. 136 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 8: And this is not at all three prisons. I think 137 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 8: this is just maybe at Pulowski one more not forcerning 138 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 8: I have to cross reverence that and if you're over 139 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 8: the age of thirteen and eighteen, then you go to 140 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 8: the general population. So I've had the opportunity to go 141 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 8: into the children's center actually for Mother's Day weekend, which 142 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 8: was amazing. So we provided food that mothers cook, they 143 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 8: had routines and you just it's just so much physical 144 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 8: connection and love and just say know that I have 145 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 8: direct contact with their children on a regular basis. They 146 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 8: ask me questions about, you know, how's Johnny doing in school? 147 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 8: If he's you know, messing up here, feel free to 148 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 8: give him a talk and plu him to the side. 149 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 7: So it's just it's just great experience. 150 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 8: You could tell that it benefits both the mother who's 151 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 8: Incarsprador as well as the child. So statistically wise, if 152 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 8: you maintain this relationship, then those who are in prison 153 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 8: are more likely to be conscious of their behavior while 154 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 8: the while they're serving their time, and also it decreases 155 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 8: the likeliness of recidives and that they'll return and reoffend. 156 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 8: And for the child at the same time, you know 157 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 8: that still having that connection ensures that they're not missing 158 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 8: out a much and they're you know, still yes, surrounded 159 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 8: by that love and are able to then succeed and 160 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 8: move forward and develop as a normal childhood. 161 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: And let's go back to something that you just mentioned 162 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: that may amaze and surprise a lot of us in 163 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: the audience here, and that is the process that not 164 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: just the children, but you and everyone who attempts a 165 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: visitation has to undergo in order to actually make it 166 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: in to visit the people in prison. You said it's 167 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: an hour long process. 168 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 8: It is, and we try to get there as early 169 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 8: as possible so we get to the front of the 170 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 8: line and make sure that the children have as much 171 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 8: time as possible to spend their with their mothers. But 172 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 8: it's you have to go through the metal detectors, and 173 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 8: you know, they it's kind of dehumanizing in a sense 174 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 8: to the fact that once you get into this institution 175 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 8: and you kind of lose a sense of you know yourself, say, 176 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 8: and freedom at the same time that you're giving up 177 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 8: so myself as you know, being a chaferon or a 178 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 8: staff in braswell as a children as well who are 179 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 8: kind of serving incarcerated but outside of the institution. 180 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 2: At the same time, any any kind of bureaucratic system 181 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 2: like that, it always feels like you're in some kind 182 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 2: of cattle call or you're stuck in some way. It's 183 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 2: very claustrophobic, I think is a word that I I 184 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 2: used to describe it. 185 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 5: I can't imagine for a child having you go through that. 186 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: And that's a great point about bureaucracies, Noel, As you 187 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: just said, these are arduous organizations, some would say inherently. 188 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: And when we are talking about bureaucracies for institutions that 189 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: are seen as a quote unquote justly punishing someone for 190 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: taking a taboo or a legal action, that oftentimes the 191 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: reforms of those bureaucracies fall to the bottom of the 192 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: list when it comes to funding, when it comes to 193 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: positive action of any sort. And one of the questions 194 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: that was on our mind that we wanted to ask 195 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: you is whether you or your colleagues, or the caregivers, 196 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: the parents or even the children have encountered this bureaucracy 197 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: acting in a well, I don't want to say in 198 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: an antagonistic manner, but maybe an unhelpful manner. 199 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 8: Yeah, that's very true. So I think we do criminals. 200 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 8: They're lay with as a master status of always being 201 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 8: criminals and need to be punished accordingly. We know, you know, 202 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 8: sometimes sentencing is not as rational or you know, it's 203 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 8: in line in regards to the offense. But I think 204 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 8: deministrates spectations by society also believes that these kids are 205 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 8: the incarcerated, uh will end up with their parents, and 206 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 8: so they treat them accordingly, and they don't believe they're 207 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 8: going to amount too much and be successful. So it 208 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 8: comes down to then the work that we do is 209 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 8: I guess a turn of weas in sociology, by the 210 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 8: labeling theory. So if you call these children, you know, criminals, 211 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 8: you say they're going to amount to only to what 212 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 8: their parents have done, and so for they're going to 213 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 8: start to internalize that, and then they just repeat the 214 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 8: cycle then of them you know, getting wrapped up in 215 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 8: another system and and you know, some of these times 216 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 8: they will the likelihood of them going being incarcerating cree 217 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 8: and so forth. We do our best to try to 218 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 8: combat some of that as much as possible. 219 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: The idea of like a self fulfilling prophecy, right exactly. 220 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: And will return to the untold story of incarceration and 221 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: the children it effects with Julian Wyatt after a brief 222 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. 223 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 4: And we're back and uh off air. 224 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 3: We were somewhat joking about private prisons. 225 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: Which is some real gallows humor. 226 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 4: Is it really is? 227 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 3: But we brought up a company that was formerly a 228 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:29,599 Speaker 3: guess known as CCA, the something Corrections of America, the 229 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 3: Corrections Corporation America. 230 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, Julian, you told us that they recently changed 231 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: their name. 232 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 8: Yes, I was doing some research on them recently, and 233 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 8: they rebrand themselves as cor Civic. I'm sure for more 234 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 8: civic cor Civic Yeah, okay, I guess a little less 235 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 8: harsh the core. 236 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 2: Of civic right, all right, it should have taken it 237 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: all away and become like the Happy fun Time Company. 238 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 7: Geez, that's what they're reagion for things. 239 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 8: Yeah, but they rebranded, I'm sure for different reputations and stuf. 240 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 7: What they've beginning over the years. 241 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 5: That's such an anock you us non name. It's like, 242 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 5: what does that mean? What does that tell us anything 243 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 5: about what you do? 244 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: Right? 245 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 4: Private housing, that's what they call it housing. 246 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: So could you could you tell us and our audience 247 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: a little bit more about what we mean when we 248 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: say private prisons. 249 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 8: Basically just as as a term kind of explains there. 250 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 8: It's some of these prisons are run by private organizations 251 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 8: and then they have such a big state at you know, 252 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 8: maintaining or the status called mass incarceration or you know 253 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 8: the prison dustrial complex because it benefits them. I was 254 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 8: looking at some of the CCA information and they actually 255 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 8: negotiate their contracts so that they are saying that you 256 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 8: have to make sure that the incarceration rate or the 257 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 8: capacities at ninety percent the number of people in a 258 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 8: number of people. 259 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: Yet they have a minimum guarantee bodies and. 260 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 8: Bunks, correct correct minim quotas for sentencing than the whole 261 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 8: mandatory and the most singing thing comes into play as well. 262 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 8: So it gets deep, and I have a pretty large 263 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 8: ticket percentage of the amount of printons that they run in. 264 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: So it's what some might refer to as the prison 265 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 2: industrial complex because there's money going into the system. There 266 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,359 Speaker 2: are people that have things to gain from this monetarily. 267 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 2: I just was gonna briefly bring up I once did 268 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: a story for public radio about a town where they 269 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: had lost their entire industry. 270 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 5: It was like a in the housing boom. 271 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: I can't remember the name of the town now, but 272 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: it was in Georgia, rural part of Georgia, and they 273 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: had lost their whole manufacturing. It was tied to like 274 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 2: textiles or something, and so they wanted this prison. They 275 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: wanted it's so bad because it was going to give jobs. 276 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 2: And I went to like an event that the CCA 277 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 2: people did, and it was just like telling them how. 278 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 5: Great it was gonna be. Everyone was gonna have jobs. 279 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 5: And they didn't end up getting. 280 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: It, but it was like it was just weird to 281 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: me that we're like, please please give us this prison. 282 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: It's surreal, isn't it. And this goes to a systemic issue. 283 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: You may have seen in the news number of years 284 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: ago about certain judges who got caught sentencing kids wildly 285 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: outer proportion off to juvie to juvenile detention centers because 286 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: they were guaranteed a certain payment per head. Luckily, for now, 287 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: in the us that is technically illegal. However, it sounds 288 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: like what we're exploring when we bring up the prison 289 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: industrial complex incarceration in general, is we're bringing up the 290 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: idea of tying profit to prison in a way that 291 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: again is technically not illegal. I don't want to say 292 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: it's legal, it's not illegal. It's kind of tricky. It's like, 293 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: don't be evil. That's not the same thing as be good. 294 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: And one thing you said just now that really stuck 295 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: with me, and we we should examine this a little 296 00:15:54,360 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: further in depth. Julian, you just said that these private 297 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: entities are influencing mandatory sentencing. Is that correct? 298 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 8: Yeah, so there's definitely a relationship between corporations and politicians. 299 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 8: This has come up and I was in the last decade, 300 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 8: there's been they try to keep you no hush hush, 301 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 8: but there's individuals who are lobbying to maintain this Stitus 302 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 8: quote with these minimm sentences and so forth. 303 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 5: Definitely, Man, I have a question. 304 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 2: In Atlanta, in particular, we recently had a change in 305 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: the mandate of police officers to not take people to 306 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 2: jail for marijuana for certain amounts of marijuana. It's not 307 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: so far as to say, marijuana is now legal in Atlanta, 308 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 2: but for all intents and purposes, cops aren't supposed to 309 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 2: take you to jail if you have a joint or 310 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 2: a certain amount of We don't. 311 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: At their discretion. 312 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 2: That's a whole thing. But my understanding of it was 313 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: it was an effort to prevent some of this overcrowding 314 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: and some of these low level offenders that end up 315 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 2: in the system and get completely screwed over for the 316 00:16:58,800 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: rest of their lives. 317 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 5: What do you think about that? 318 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 8: Yeah, that goes back to, oh my gosh, the war 319 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 8: on drugs and cracking all that exactly from the seventies 320 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 8: and moving forward. But I think they're on both sides 321 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 8: of the alan I we're seeing a need to this 322 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 8: is a problem. Mass incarceration is a problem. Is costing 323 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 8: a lot of money in regards to the federal budget 324 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 8: and everything else. So now I think mandatory prisons is. 325 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 2: Let's define the term real quick, just just just to 326 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 2: catch up with the idea of mandatory minimums. 327 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 8: So it's basically means that no matter what, if you 328 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 8: get caught with safe for drugs and some enjority of 329 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 8: individuals who are incarcerated legislation has passed and policies say 330 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 8: that you have to receive a certain amount of prison 331 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 8: or jail time for this offense. 332 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's usually not small. 333 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 7: Not small, and it's actually increased over the decades. 334 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's the minimum. 335 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: And it's and it's a there's a meta level to 336 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: it as well, because mandatory sendency might not just kick 337 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: in for a possession of X amount of drug y. 338 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: It also can kick in if this is your second 339 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: or third test crime. 340 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 7: Three strikes. 341 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 8: That was a three shrikes and that was yeah Clinton, 342 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 8: that was she was Well. 343 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you pointing out that that was under 344 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: President Clinton. 345 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 7: That was that was Yeah, and that's going to come 346 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 7: up a little later. 347 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 2: Actually, Yes, it just goes to show money isn't partisan. 348 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: I mean, we we can we demonize certain parties and 349 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: raise up others. When you look at the numbers, there's 350 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 2: stuff happening on both sides that are feeding the beast. 351 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 8: You know. 352 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: Definitely, money votes for itself exactly, and it votes every day. Yeah, 353 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: So what if it's okay, We'd like to ask you 354 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: a couple of biographical questions. What what drew you to 355 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: this project, this mission and where would you like to 356 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: see it go? 357 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 5: Great question. 358 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 8: So I'm fortunate enough that neither my mother nor father 359 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 8: were incarcerated through my childhood. But I can't say that 360 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 8: that narrative hos true for some of my close relatives 361 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 8: as well as my childhood friends that I've grown up 362 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 8: with originally from Los Angeles, California, so you know, and 363 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 8: I wouldn't say the Santa Monica's in the hollywoods whom 364 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 8: I like, long beaches in Englewood and you know, confidence 365 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 8: so some of these like urban areas who are now 366 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 8: are decaying and so forth. 367 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 7: It's just something that I've been affected by. 368 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 8: I know, there at times when I've seen friends get 369 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 8: arrested and it's been as simple as something that hasn't 370 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 8: been as dramatic. And there are times I've seen doors 371 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 8: being kicked down and everything else in between. When I 372 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 8: was a child, I opened up the door and there 373 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 8: goes to the FBI saying they're looking for, you know, 374 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 8: a wanted criminals. So and as a child, that's simwhat traumatized. 375 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 7: And you know what I mean. 376 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 8: And even though we're speaking of like the family as 377 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 8: a unit, there have been times, like my mother has 378 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 8: had to you know how some of my friends or 379 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 8: some of my cousins, because mounts and uncles have been 380 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 8: involved in the criminal justice system, are now incarcerated and 381 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 8: to avoid them getting right to the coming ward of 382 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 8: the state and getting the foster carrying everything else like that, 383 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 8: my mother, you know, stepped into the plane and wanted 384 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 8: to do her part and ensuring that you know, children 385 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 8: are still comfortable and moving forward. And she's like that 386 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 8: was her role. So on top of you know, trying 387 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 8: to use her resources to help with my relatives out 388 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 8: with court fees and you know, trials and so forth, 389 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 8: attorney fees, she's also not having to take care of 390 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 8: another body, another human and. 391 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 7: Children like to eat right. 392 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 8: So it's it's, it's, it's it's things like that that 393 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 8: it just hits home and then moving out here. I 394 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 8: got involved with the organization when I was an intern 395 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 8: undergrad and just the families and children that i've you know, 396 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 8: came in contact with the just resonated with me. I 397 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 8: look at them like on my own my family members 398 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 8: at this point. So and then progressively I just became 399 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 8: more involved in the organization. I'm a member of the 400 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 8: Young Professionals Board. And I'll be the president of the 401 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 8: Young Professionals Board for the organization in July. 402 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: Wow, man, congratulations. 403 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 3: See there's a huge just tribute to the dedication and 404 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 3: the love that your family shares to take on those 405 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 3: I mean it, in a way, it's a burden. It's 406 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 3: also a privilege in other ways to take care of 407 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 3: a child in that way. But that's huge because not 408 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 3: every family has that kind of bond and that determination. 409 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 4: And can you just. 410 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 3: Tell us a little bit about what happens to let's 411 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 3: say a kid whose mom ends up wrapped up in 412 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 3: the criminal justice system, goes to prison, and there's nobody 413 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 3: else to take care of this. 414 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 5: Kid, mother and father potentially, Yeah. 415 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe you start with maybe start with the day 416 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: they learn that they're. 417 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 4: Going, Yeah, like, what happens to this kid? 418 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 8: Not enough emphasis goes onto taking the child into consideration 419 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 8: at all when it comes to these sentencing. But from 420 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 8: my experience of what I've seen is luckily it's usually 421 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 8: a grandparent who takes responsibility of looking at for the child. 422 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 8: I know the majority of children who are in program. 423 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 8: That's the case, which had its own issues to a 424 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 8: certain level. But yeah, once you get rabbed them into 425 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 8: the system. It someone just get lost, and then you 426 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 8: don't have a you can't advocate for yourself, and you know, 427 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 8: then it's a disconnect between you know, the state wanting 428 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 8: to keep you away from your child and you not 429 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 8: knowing or having legal knowledge to even know what you 430 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 8: need to what steps you need to take to you know, 431 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 8: it's your relationship maintained is maintained with that child, So 432 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 8: it's it's challenging. 433 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: Wow, So is there any state level or federal level 434 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: substantive assistance in solving this problem? 435 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 7: There possibly could. 436 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 8: Be, but the one that I'm aware of the top 437 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 8: of my head, I couldn't speak going. 438 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 2: Okay, so there's a grandparent. That's obviously a best case scenario, 439 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 2: but a lot of times there's not. And then you 440 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 2: have kids that get in the foster care system, for example. 441 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 2: And I know that can end up great for children, 442 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 2: that can ultimately be a positive situation where they find 443 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 2: their false or parents ultimately adopt them, et cetera. But 444 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: that is a form of a child being in a 445 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 2: system that they have no control over and that at 446 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: times they have no ability to escape. So can you 447 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 2: give us kind of the less rosy version of that 448 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 2: that scenario. I don't know, just whatever you see on. 449 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 8: The ground from what I see on the ground, preserving 450 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 8: that that immediate family or that the extended family tends 451 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 8: to have better outcomes for both the child as well 452 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 8: as the parent who's incarcerated. It's a level of trust 453 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 8: and stability we're just having to get you know, outside, 454 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 8: you know, entities are actors involved and making decisions, and 455 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 8: it just gets a little bit more complex on top 456 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 8: of already having a parent incarcerated. 457 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 3: Well, we definitely hear horror stories about the you know 458 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 3: situations they can occur within foster care and the foster 459 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 3: care system. You know, it's not all horror stories, but 460 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 3: that's definitely the ones that rise at the top because 461 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: they're newsworthy. 462 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 2: If it bleeds, it leads, Yeah, Well, and I know 463 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 2: that a lot of foster parents do it because it's 464 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 2: like a per kid amount of money that you get, 465 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 2: and that's you know, maybe a negative way you can 466 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 2: look at it. But also, my ex wife's sister as 467 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 2: foster children for years and ended up adopting like five 468 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 2: of them, three of which were siblings, and they just 469 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 2: have the most lovely, loving, middle class affluent family, then 470 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 2: they take care of those kids like they're their own, 471 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 2: because they are. So that's sort of like the best 472 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 2: case scenario. But then you have ones where you hear 473 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 2: about neglect and malnourishment, you hear about kids dying in 474 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: the foster care system from beatings and abuse, and you 475 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 2: don't have to look far to find examples of this 476 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 2: happening in the news, to the point where we're almost 477 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 2: numb to it in a certain way. 478 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: Very true, and this brings us to a natural segue 479 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: something that many many of us listening along, we're already 480 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: thinking of as soon as we tuned into to this episode. 481 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: It hits upon something that has made the news in 482 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: a very real and media and as we record an 483 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: on going way, we're going to delve into the story 484 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: behind the stories you've read about children being separated from 485 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: their parents at the border of the US. Afterward from 486 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: our sponsor and we're back from about what was it 487 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: May twenty eighteen. 488 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, May, it was like early May twenty eighteen up 489 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 3: until June twentieth, actually, the day we're recording this episode. 490 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: From about that time span, you probably saw in your 491 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: media of choice, whether that's a social platform or a 492 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: mass market news program. You probably saw the reports of 493 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:02,719 Speaker 1: numerous children traveling with their family or in some cases solo, 494 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: from a foreign country to the US and then not 495 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 1: only being detained at the border, but being separated from 496 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: their parents. And when we say kids, we're not talking teenagers. 497 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: We're talking children. 498 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,959 Speaker 2: And when we say numerous, we're not talking about a handful, 499 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 2: We're talking about more than two. 500 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 3: Thousand, Yeah, twye and forty three according to the NPR 501 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 3: as of early May. 502 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: Julian, you've you've been following this story, would you say 503 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: that there is a connection or a confluence between the 504 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: immigration detainment industry and the prison industry. 505 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 8: So, yeah, I think there's definitely some parallels between our 506 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 8: primo justice system as well as our detention system. I 507 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 8: think we're speaking on still the di mandatories, indusing and 508 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 8: still the same that goes in with these immigration tension centers. 509 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 8: There's quotas as well, the private prison industries all so 510 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 8: heavily involved in the tension system. 511 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 7: But I think even still. 512 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 8: Just having the spotlight on the children, it's these are 513 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 8: still traumatic and dramatic events that they're just probably going 514 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 8: to stick with them for each in their life. If 515 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 8: they don't, they're not receiving the proper you know, services 516 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 8: to trying to combat some of these experiences. 517 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 3: Definitely, you know, it's crazy. I've seen Jeff's sessions, the 518 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 3: current Attorney General of the United States. 519 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: Jeff Beauregad. 520 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 3: Yes, I just like saying, well, he's described this practice 521 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 3: of separating the children from the other family members as 522 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 3: a deterrence, as a strategic deterrence to prevent other people 523 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 3: and other families with children from trying to cross the 524 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,239 Speaker 3: border into the United States. And it's based on a 525 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 3: law that was passed during the Clinton administration, and the 526 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 3: way it's written is it's not vague, it's just current 527 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 3: that administration is well as other administrations, had not really 528 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 3: pushed it that far, essentially, like taking it to this 529 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 3: level of separating these families forcibly, but it's something that's 530 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 3: been on the books for a while. So a lot 531 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 3: of us have probably seen the videos of the situation 532 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 3: that these kids find themselves in physically, which is in 533 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 3: essentially these large cages where there are multiple children. They're 534 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 3: not stacked up, but they're just squished into these cages. 535 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 3: And what they've got is some like water it looked like, 536 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 3: and maybe a little bit of food like chips or something. 537 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 3: And these thermal blankets that they're putting on each other. 538 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 3: And how does that that that sounds insane to me? 539 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 3: Has is that experience experience mirrored anywhere within the juvenile 540 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 3: system at all, or is that a completely new thing. 541 00:28:54,440 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 8: I would say the betrayal of this situation to certain 542 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 8: city was intentional. Okay, Like you said, going back to 543 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 8: serving as a mechanism for deterrents for those who are 544 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 8: most of them are migrating from what Elsavador, Guatemala and Honduras, 545 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 8: so they're seeing this on the media that they're gonna, 546 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 8: you know, probably hold off from think twice about coming 547 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 8: our way. Even in the past with in African American 548 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 8: males being you know, portrayed as you know, these deviant 549 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 8: criminals and so forth, back in you know, the seventies 550 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 8: or civil rights area. Moving forward, it's it's kind of 551 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 8: the same thing, the service deterrence or to you know, 552 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 8: shift behavior to get a certain outcome that you want, 553 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 8: which still goes back to the whole element of politics 554 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 8: that's brought into this. 555 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the thing that bugged me the most. 556 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 2: It seems very clear there's a lot of passing the 557 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 2: buck going on where it's like, we're doing this, but 558 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 2: it's actually the folks on the other side's fault. 559 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 5: But we're just enforcing the law. Blah blah blah. 560 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 2: But then you could look at it and say, well, 561 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 2: it's really just kind of a deterrent. It's like you're 562 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 2: you're you're punishing people for do doing something that technically 563 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 2: is legal because a lot of these folks are seeking 564 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 2: asylum and then all of a sudden their kids are 565 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 2: snatched away because of this zero tolerance policy. So that 566 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 2: to me seems like dirty pool. 567 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up. It is 568 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: legal to seek asylum. It's actually under UN conventions, it's 569 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: legal to seek asylum and entry with any country. It's 570 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: unfortunately up to that country's discretion, and they're very loose 571 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: with the idea of discretion. 572 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 6: Yeah. 573 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 2: Well, apparently we're leaving the UN Human Rights Counsel anyway, 574 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 2: So that's true. 575 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: That happens yesterday. 576 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, we just did. 577 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: We just did. 578 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 5: Wow. 579 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, great, So let's let's let's keep this. Let's keep 580 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: this thread. Though with the immigration policy, you notice Matt 581 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: pointed out from May to June twentieth peak behind the 582 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: scenes here, folks, Julian, Matt Nolan and I are recording 583 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: this on June twentieth, and as we were going into 584 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: the studio here, we learned that the current president, President Trump, 585 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: had actually signed a document, right that is going to 586 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: end not the detainment practice, but in the separation practice. 587 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: Isn't that correct? 588 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 5: That is what I read. 589 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 2: Yes, it's a breaking news story as we sit here 590 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 2: and record this now. But pressure has apparently gotten to 591 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 2: the administration in that respect, because it's what they call 592 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 2: bad optics, right, like, even if you're not technically breaking 593 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 2: the law or you're enforcing the law, it's not a 594 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 2: good look. 595 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: I believe what the president signed is an executive order, correct, 596 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: that would be, which is which just means that he 597 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: doesn't have to run it past Congress. 598 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 5: He's a he's a fan of. 599 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 4: Those got something up on time. 600 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 3: We're literally looking at this on our computers right now. 601 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 3: It's just talking about, Yeah, he signed an executive order 602 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 3: that would end the separations. But instead of putting the 603 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 3: parents and children together in these detention centers like the 604 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 3: Steward Have you ever been to Stuart Detention Center. 605 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 7: It's the one here in Georgia, right. 606 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. 607 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 8: I have some friends who've gone and visited there, did 608 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 8: some work, but I personally have him. 609 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's massive. My sister has done work with 610 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 3: some organizations there too, and it's just these huge centers 611 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,479 Speaker 3: where they're in that in that location, there are families together, 612 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 3: some of them, sometimes they're separated, and it's just, man, 613 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 3: it is a tough situation for anyone to find themselves in, 614 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 3: and especially for a child. And I can't get over this. 615 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 3: You guys like Nolan, I have kids. Why do you 616 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 3: have kids yet? 617 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 7: No kids yet? 618 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 3: And you and Ben one day, don't worry, you guys 619 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 3: are gonna have powerful, amazing kids. 620 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 4: Over here. 621 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 3: But just the thought, Nol, of someone taking your child 622 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 3: away and putting them in a cold, dark, just like 623 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 3: place like that, without without any chance to either go 624 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 3: to your you know, your parents or your grandparents who 625 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 3: are some other family men, or just being sent back 626 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 3: even you know, just like just leave and go somewhere else. 627 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 4: It makes your blood boil. 628 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 3: And I think that's what happened to a lot of 629 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 3: people in this country and around the world. 630 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 4: As we're reading this stuff. 631 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 2: Well, and given like how difficult it is to even 632 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 2: get a phone call if you go to jail. Right, 633 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 2: I'm only conjecturing here, but I imagine that there's not 634 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 2: ready lines of communication between mom and dad and funding 635 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 2: son and daughter, you know. 636 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's one other important point here that we 637 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: have to emphasize of the many important points, which is 638 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: that for people who feel that a detainment policy is 639 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: just for people who feel like, well, you know, it's 640 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: against the law, don't try to across the border. And 641 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: even if you plead asylum, it is up to that 642 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: country's discretion for how long they detain you and whether 643 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: or not they grant you entry or they kick you 644 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: back with a go with God. The Regardless of how 645 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: you feel about that, the children involved do not have agency, 646 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: and in institutions and communities across the country, these kids 647 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: are not making the choices. They are only suffering the consequences. Yeah, 648 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: and this brings us to this brings us to a 649 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: question about the future, which I know sometimes people hate 650 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: because no one can predict it. But Julian, having lived 651 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: in this world and spent so much time working toward 652 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: a better future for these parents, these children, and Ultimately, 653 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: I would argue our country as a whole, what recommendations 654 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: could you make? What would you like to see change? 655 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 7: Great question, definitely. 656 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 8: I think some of the most common and we're getting 657 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 8: some traction here is some of the reversing of some 658 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 8: of the policies that were enacted over the last few decades, 659 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 8: with things such as three strikes or mendatory minimum. But 660 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 8: also I think we need to put a bigger emphasis 661 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 8: on more of a community supervision. So I think a 662 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 8: lot of people think that if we you know, in 663 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 8: mass incarceration and there's less inmates, then it may necessarily 664 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 8: be cheaper on taxpayers down the road. I think that 665 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 8: may be the case, But immediately, I think the resources 666 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 8: just need to be shifting and allocated towards you know, 667 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 8: social services and community based organizations to provide you know, 668 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 8: psycho social support, education, vocational training, support for housing, which 669 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 8: you give these individuals some type of support system that 670 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 8: they can you know, build build on. And then on 671 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 8: another end, I think that I recommend that you know, 672 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,439 Speaker 8: different policies or mechanism be put in place that those 673 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 8: who are doing the sentencing or are prosecuting do a 674 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 8: holistic or a deeper in depth assessment on the children 675 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 8: who are going to be impacted as well, look at 676 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 8: things such as what are there going to be their need? 677 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 8: Do they have caregivers who can you know, soup in 678 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,959 Speaker 8: and take care of them during sentencing and so forth, 679 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 8: which I don't think is done as adequately or sufficiently 680 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 8: as needs to be. And I think also on the 681 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 8: back end of this, which doesn't get talked about, it's 682 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 8: also that of the caregivers. So it's a leanland we 683 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 8: talked about, like a financial burden. Many of these caregivers 684 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 8: are you know, senior citizens fifty six years old, low income, 685 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 8: so they're more than likely retired and receiving some type 686 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 8: of government assistants and now they're having to take care 687 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 8: of someone else. I would like to see you know, 688 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 8: more support given to them, maybe subsidizing you know, some 689 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 8: type of you know, monetary payment for the time being. 690 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 8: But there's just I mean, there's a lot of different 691 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 8: alternatives that can be you know, put in place, are 692 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 8: implemented to kind of you know, shift some of this 693 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 8: climate that we have right now. 694 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 3: It does become a form of foster care and away 695 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 3: when you're like your grandmother taking care of your granddaughter on. Yeah, 696 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,839 Speaker 3: that's that's an interesting point. I like to see that. 697 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 3: So let's say you're you're someone's listening to this and 698 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 3: they want to help out. Is there a place online 699 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 3: they can go to learn more or number they can 700 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 3: call or what can what can they. 701 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 4: Do to help with this struggle? 702 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 8: Definitely for our resource go to is our website foreverfamuh 703 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 8: dot org. 704 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 7: That's Forever Fam. 705 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 8: It's forever f O R E V E R FAM 706 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 8: f A M dot org and you get you know, 707 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 8: there's informations you could reach out to if you know 708 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 8: someone who may be need assistants with you know, navigating 709 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 8: through our professional or coman justice system, children who might 710 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 8: be impacted, educators, if it's just anything for any other 711 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 8: speaking engagement or any recommendations, please feel free your reach 712 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 8: out to us. But there's plenty of resources here. You 713 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 8: go to we got the dome here, go to our 714 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,839 Speaker 8: some of our state departments and so forth, and you know, is. 715 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 4: It possible to volunteer and just like show up and 716 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 4: help out. 717 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:01,720 Speaker 7: Definitely. 718 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 8: We have events going on pretty much year round. Thing 719 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 8: as simple as like back to school programs or events 720 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 8: where we're giving out backpacks and you know, just stuff 721 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 8: like that, little dinners we host. We have a five 722 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 8: k walk that's coming up in August that's actually going 723 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 8: to be right across the street. So there's always always ways. 724 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,439 Speaker 8: No we have to go knocking the windows now, please. 725 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 5: And I just wanted to mention real quick. I couldn't 726 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 5: help it. 727 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 2: Notice a Facebook fundraising effort that popped up on my 728 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 2: feed yesterday called Reunite an Immigrant Parent with their Child, 729 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 2: And I couldn't help it. Notice that headed raised almost 730 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 2: thirteen million dollars. It's from an organization called RACES, which 731 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 2: stands for the Refugee and Immigrant Center for Education and 732 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 2: Legal Services, which is a nonprofit based out of San Antonio, Texas. 733 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 5: So that is. 734 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,439 Speaker 2: A very interesting ongoing cause that would be worth checking 735 00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 2: into as well. 736 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 3: And just to show you how quickly all this is moving, 737 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 3: when Paul showed me that Facebook post this morning, they 738 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:04,720 Speaker 3: had raised nine million dollars. 739 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 5: That it's insane. 740 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,240 Speaker 2: I think when I donated to it, they had raised 741 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 2: like eight or something and their goal is fifteen million. 742 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:11,760 Speaker 5: Wow, which is insane. 743 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 2: It just goes to show and then you know, with 744 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 2: the reversal of the administration, obviously. 745 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 5: The optics of these things really does matter. 746 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,800 Speaker 2: So this notion of well, nothing I can do about it, 747 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,320 Speaker 2: that's not that's not always true. 748 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: That's true, that's false. 749 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 3: So how do you raise money for all of these 750 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 3: kids whose parents are in prison domestically? 751 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: Well, the thing is that you can make an argument 752 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: that one of us alone may not swing the needle 753 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 1: too much one way or the other. But it's like 754 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,800 Speaker 1: that old proverb. If you want to travel fast, travel alone. 755 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 1: If you want to travel far, travel with people, right, 756 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: And so the fact of the matter is sometimes this 757 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: gets cast off as being cliche or whatever, but together 758 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: we can make some sort of positive difference that is 759 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 1: not politically aligned. You know, I think it's safe to 760 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: say eighteen, it's not controversial to help children. 761 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 4: I believe you're right. 762 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: Call it a hot take if we must. 763 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,879 Speaker 2: But and obviously this immigration thing is a politically divisive issue, 764 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 2: and we're not here to preach politics to anybody. It's 765 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 2: more just about human rights, general goodness, and the idea 766 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 2: that kids deserve a fair shake, no matter where they 767 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 2: come from or what their background is. 768 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,439 Speaker 1: Absolutely, the press is a powerful tool and one thing 769 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 1: that's important that I think a lot of mass media 770 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: producers don't want us to know is that you are 771 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,800 Speaker 1: part of the press. It is a two way street. 772 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 1: The people who speak to you can also hear you, 773 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 1: So don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to I know 774 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,439 Speaker 1: it's a hassle. Nobody writes letters anymore, but that's why 775 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 1: they matter more. 776 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,919 Speaker 5: Now. It's a really good point, bet, Yeah, it really 777 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 5: is a good point. 778 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 3: I'm going back to the thing that we've discussed a 779 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 3: couple of times on this show, and it is my 780 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 3: personal belief that the current administration is in some way 781 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 3: like a sleeper agent where they're going in and doing 782 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 3: the worst possible things, taking things to an nth degree 783 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 3: so that we can all see it first like for 784 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 3: the like, truly see it, and then all go. 785 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: No weirdest as a society. 786 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 5: That is a really odd if optimistic I mean, and 787 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:22,760 Speaker 5: I hope that that's the case. 788 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: We hope. So, Julian, thank you so much for taking 789 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: the time to come on the show today. We want 790 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: to leave the last word to you is if you 791 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: could say anything about the consequences for children who are 792 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,319 Speaker 1: innocent bystanders in the justice system, if you could say 793 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: anything about it to whomever is listening to this now 794 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,240 Speaker 1: or in the future, what would. 795 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 8: That be They have to be even now to be 796 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 8: part of this the I guess the dominant air to 797 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 8: when it comes to our criminal justice system or not 798 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 8: right now? If right they're left out of so much 799 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 8: it are affected tremendously buy some of these decisions houss 800 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 8: moving forward. Just want to bring a sense of awareness 801 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 8: and just kind of raise the consciousness of individuals and 802 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,719 Speaker 8: know that this is actually, you know, going on and 803 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:12,280 Speaker 8: moving forward. 804 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 7: Just to just be aware of that. 805 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,359 Speaker 3: Okay, And that's the end of this classic episode. If 806 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 3: you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you 807 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 3: can get into contact with us in a number of 808 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 3: different ways. One of the best is to give us 809 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 3: a call. Our number is one eight three three std WYTK. 810 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 3: If you don't want to do that, you can send 811 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 3: us a good old fashioned email. 812 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 813 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't want you to know is a production 814 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 815 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.