1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Paul. 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: Mission Control decads. Most importantly, you are you, You are here, 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: to know. Heads up, fellow conspiracy realist. This is behind 10 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: the scenes footage, the kind of stuff you might run 11 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: into a director's cut of a documentary and so on. 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: Sneaking past the curtain on the show to talk a 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: little bit about the recent stuff they don't want you 14 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: to know book, Maybe talk about the title too. To 15 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: be honest with you, it's been a wild ride. UH 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: want to thank everybody who's taken the time to show 17 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: support here, whether that's by dropping a rating on Amazon 18 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: or good Reads, your your platform of choice. Even more so, 19 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: people who throughout the years have supported the show with 20 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: excellent questions, excellent recommendations, recording UH an episode earlier today, 21 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: someone just provided news the Delphi murderer has probably been caught. 22 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: This show works with live active fire, So today it's 23 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: going behind the curtain to talk about how this book 24 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: came about, how the subjects were chosen, and maybe some 25 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: of the stuff that got cut out. So here are 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: the facts. A Delphi guy, by the way, lived right 27 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: down the street, not really, but metaphorically right down the 28 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: street from the police office that was investigating those murders. 29 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: Since it's crazy, it's how it goes. So, you know, 30 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: we are very lucky to be part of a network 31 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: UM called I Heart Radio, and UM we were asked 32 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: to follow in the footsteps of our buds Josh and 33 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: Chuck and write a book based on our podcast. Josh 34 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: and Chuck wrote a book called Stuff You Should Know. 35 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: We followed Suite are writing a book called Stuff They 36 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: Don't Want You to Know. And UM. The whole process 37 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: was really interesting in and of itself, just from you know, 38 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: doing the research assembly the manuscroup, realizing how crazy deadlines 39 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: are in the publishing industry, also kind of realizing how 40 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: important supply chain stuff is because the reason deadlines exist 41 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: are to work backwards from a release date and then 42 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: book yourself, you know, your company time um, in a 43 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: printing press to get the proper number of of books 44 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: or records or whatever it might be printed to meet 45 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: that goal, you know, for that deadline. And we've seen 46 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: a lot of issues with that with Vinyl and another 47 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: you know tech knowlogy, even like PlayStation five's and all 48 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. It can be very logistically challenging 49 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: to meet those goals. So all of this stuff, all 50 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: of these pieces have their place in the process, and 51 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: if one thing screws up, it screws up the whole 52 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: chain of events. Yeah, you're right, we've learned a lot. Guys, 53 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: We've learned a whole lot in going throughout this process. Yeah, 54 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: we've learned quite a bit, and maybe we tackle the 55 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: biggest question first, which is why this book, why this 56 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: in particular, and why publish it now. I mean we've 57 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: been doing a podcast for more than a decade at 58 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: this point. I mean, I guess it's we kind of 59 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: got to it before things became so divisive. We had 60 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: a little practice. Um, but you know, things nowadays with 61 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: the way information misinformation spread, I mean, you really just 62 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: kind of have to be the top of your game 63 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: in terms of like kind of knowing what to look 64 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: for how not to be deceived, um, and also allow 65 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: that to not completely torpedo your quality of life. Uh. 66 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: It's easy to let this stuff just wear you down. 67 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: But which is a little bit of critical thinking and 68 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: on with some kind of you know, ability to suss 69 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: out the fact from the fiction, you too can live 70 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: a normal life. Absolutely, And we've been doing this for 71 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: so long we've just become accustomed to it. And what 72 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: we try and do with our podcast is arm you 73 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: with that information. And for the first time, we've collected 74 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: a lot of those strategies, a lot of the understanding 75 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: from all of these years of research and compiled it 76 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: into one place, into one book that you can literally 77 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: pick up for real, in real life with your hands. Look, 78 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: this is no fooling folks. This is a divisive time 79 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: no matter which way you look at it. It's a 80 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: level of division in the West that has not been 81 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: seen since the era of civil rights or even since 82 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: the bloody days of the UI Civil War. So what 83 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: you hear, what you see, what you encounter in this 84 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: book is a way too, as you said, Matt, empower yourself, uh, 85 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: and to better arm yourself against bad faith actors who 86 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: want to sell you a story and hope that you 87 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: will not have the time nor the tools to verify 88 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: whether or not that story is in fact true. It's 89 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: especially important if you have someone in your life who 90 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: does question everything and maybe tends to believe what they 91 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: see on social media more than let's say, what a 92 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: mainstream news channel would be saying. It would be a 93 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: great idea to gift that person this book because it's 94 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: designed and written in such a way that it's not 95 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: going to feel anybody feel strange for holding beliefs that 96 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: maybe you don't have that you don't hold. That's kind 97 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: of the whole point of it. You can read this 98 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: no matter you believe, and you're gonna pull things out 99 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: of it that are maybe different than somebody else. I agree. 100 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,679 Speaker 1: We don't talk down, we don't talk at We talk 101 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: with and we ask, and we want to thank everybody 102 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: for getting on this crazy adventure with us. Full disclosure, 103 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: Matt Noel and yours truly don't always uh don't always 104 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: agree on everything, uh, and we ask ourselves a lot 105 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: of questions. I kind of want to pose a question 106 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: to you, guys, um if you don't mind, just really 107 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: quick to see what you think um, when it comes 108 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: to synthesizing the materials, the like research that we do 109 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: for these episodes, and you know, the writing band that 110 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: you do for these episodes. When it comes to synthesizing 111 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: that into a book format, what what was that process like? Right? So? 112 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:55,799 Speaker 1: The common uh, the common approach to writing a book 113 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: like this in a non fiction world, especially dealing with 114 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: such hot button issues in the West and beyond, is 115 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: to make it approachable. Often people get caught in information bubbles. 116 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: That's one of the most successful successful heist of the 117 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: information age is to remove people's ability to look beyond 118 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: what they know, and perhaps more importantly, to forget that 119 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: other people may be in a different, overlapping or entirely 120 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: separate bubble. Uh. In the stuff that this show writes, 121 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: it is um. You know, the approaches primarily to make 122 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: sure that it is interesting and easy to the ear 123 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: to hear things. Writing for someone's inner theater of the 124 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: mind when they're reading is quite different from writing for 125 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: someone's inner theater of the mind when they're listening. Not 126 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: everybody's an auditory learner, not everybody as a visual learner. 127 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: How does one navigate the difference in this uh? In 128 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: this wing the idea and of course deferring to you, Matt, 129 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: and you know here uh, in this kind of endeavor, 130 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: the big question is how to make something enjoyable to read, 131 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: because one thing most human beings don't like is feeling lectured, right, 132 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: because there's something sometimes there's something inherently condescending about a lecture, 133 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: whether or not that's the intent. So when you want 134 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: to communicate with people, you want to ideally be communicating 135 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: with them instead of at them. Now, many people have 136 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: been in conversations where they feel as though someone is 137 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: not listening to them and just talking at them, right, 138 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: And that's never a pleasant feeling for the person who 139 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: has to be the listener or the audience and whatever 140 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: format that is. So, to answer your question directly, Matt, 141 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: the at least in this experience, the idea is how 142 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: to communicate stuff in an actionable way, in a way 143 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: that matters, in a way that feels like an open hand, 144 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: right rather than a closed fist. Here are things that 145 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 1: have been found, what do you think about them? And 146 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 1: stuff they want you to know. Is immensely fortunate in 147 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: that it is one of the absolutely most listener driven shows. Honestly, 148 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: and this speaker's experience at least absolutely. And you know, 149 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: to your point about something being for the for the 150 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: ear versus for the eye and the mind, I guess 151 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: the theater of the mind that that you mentioned. We 152 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: learned that firsthand too, and we went and did the 153 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: audiobook of this, uh, this work. And you aren't allowed 154 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: dimprov at all, like you know, you have too because 155 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: of certain cross referencing things between like Audible and Amazon 156 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: and different things that you know, allow things to be 157 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: kind of connected in terms of like text and audio. 158 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: You have to read it exactly verbatim and um, it's 159 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: interesting that we're narrating our own book. But if you were, 160 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: say a voice actor, they don't want any improv It 161 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: has to be word for word what's written in the book. 162 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: And sometimes when you read out loud, you know in 163 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: your voice what's written, you know, for someone to read 164 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: silently in their mind, it can really point out some uh, 165 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: some issues and some separations between those two you know, 166 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: mediums and ways of experiencing things. And so kudos to 167 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: all the you know, the audiobook professional audiobook readers out 168 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: there for being able to kind of like bridge that 169 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: gap because it's not easy. Yeah. Folks, folks familiar with 170 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: production and performance, fellow actors as well, you may recognize 171 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: this as d LP dead letter perfect no improvisation allowed, 172 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: and that may that may be a wake up call 173 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: to a lot of folks. Uh, this book does exist 174 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: in an audio format. Question for you, Noel, and for you, Matt, 175 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: was there anything in the process that surprised you along 176 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: the way in terms of content or in terms of 177 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: some of the stuff you described? Noel, the uh, the 178 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 1: whole uh, the whole cavalcade of moving parts. For me 179 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: was just working with an editor and the book industry 180 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: in general, and what we were allowed to keep into 181 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: the book and what we had to take out, and 182 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: how we had to really form the book to a 183 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: very specific story kind of what did you give it? 184 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: An arc? You know, just so to speak like that. 185 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: They're all about the arc in terms of like what 186 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: is this what are you trying to express? Like is 187 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: it something that can be perceived as a formatted thing 188 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: with chapter breaks and all of those kinds of Well, 189 00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: it's weird. It felt like there was always a clearer 190 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: vision for this book. I think it's just we had 191 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: to tighten the scope quite a bit. Uh, for the 192 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 1: purposes of the editor. I think for me it was 193 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: how much thought and uh fussiness kind of goes into 194 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: the cover. Um, the cover is just such an important 195 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: detail when it comes to marketing a book and making 196 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: sure that it is it is as broadly and universally 197 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: received as possible. That there were little details about the 198 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: cover that we would never have thought of in a 199 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: million years that to certain folks were like big red 200 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,719 Speaker 1: flags or big things like, oh, we gotta make sure 201 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: that we, you know, present it in this certain way 202 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: that doesn't accidentally trigger somebody or make people think the 203 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: wrong thing about what we're trying to communicate in terms 204 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: of like, you know, because this is ultimately a critical 205 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: thinking conspiracy book that is trying to help people or 206 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: further people's ability to think critically about the world and 207 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: about you know, these conspiracy theories that are out there. 208 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 1: I mean, that's what we've always prided ourselves undoing and 209 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: to make sure that nobody accidentally mistook it for something else, 210 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: And how important the visual design of it is in 211 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,959 Speaker 1: communicating that idea, because for a lot of people, that's 212 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: going to be the first line of like, am I 213 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: interested in this talking about judging a book by its cover. 214 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: I mean it is done. It's it's said as a 215 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: negative because it's maybe not always the right thing to do, 216 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: but it is the most common thing to do. If 217 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: books are not judged by the cover, then why do 218 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: books have different covers. Let's just apply some logic to 219 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: that one. You know, it is clearly a like convenient 220 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: and valid phrase to throw around. This show was quite lucky, 221 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: quite fortunate to have a good friend in Nick Admiral 222 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: Turbo Benson, who did all the art, including the cover, 223 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: which is something this show had to fight for. Spoiler alert. 224 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: So this there's thing that a lot of fellow listeners 225 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: asked about when getting teases of the book or sneak previews. 226 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: Why is this solely about government related conspiracy theories? That's 227 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: the question, right. This is not an encyclopediac look at 228 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: the at the most popular or prevalent conspiracy theories in 229 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: the Western world, or in the Middle Eastern world, or 230 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: in uh, you know, the Pacific theater, etcetera, or in 231 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: the Russian world, etcetera. What this is instead is a 232 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: focused study, one could say, or it was said to be, 233 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: you know, a certain percentage folklore a certain percentage obsessively 234 00:14:54,400 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: researched history, and a certain percentage warning signs about the future. However, 235 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: to the earlier statements, it was attenuated to be to 236 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: focus almost entirely on actions of powerful entities like governments 237 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: and businesses. This was not the original play at Perhaps 238 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: it's time to pause for word from the sponsors and 239 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: return to dive deeper into the reasonings and perhaps most juicily, uh, 240 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: the the actual things covered. Here's where it gets crazy. 241 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: So what this episode is going to do now is 242 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: with that background, you have fellow conspiracy realists explore the breakdown, 243 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: and maybe I have a little discussion about each of 244 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: the chapters involved. Let's see, you're going to have to 245 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: look this up, partner Faithful correspondence. Here it's your dog 246 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: eared copy out of the old desk drawer. I got 247 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: a question for for you guys on chapter one. It's 248 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: a it's about biological warfare, man, What is the lie 249 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: within the lie within the lie? This is a slick 250 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: way to point out something that happens really often in 251 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: the age of ubiquitous information, there is often a an 252 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: inherent truth right that creates like it's the origin call 253 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: in the great game of telephone, that is unanalyzed communication. Right. 254 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: So someone's like you, if you live in a small town, 255 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: you've heard how quickly rumors spread, right. Uh. If you've 256 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: ever been in a court of law and listened to 257 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: eyewitness accounts after the fact, you understand how the stuff 258 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: gets increasingly embellished over time. The lie within the lie 259 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: is a bit of a shout out to this sort 260 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: of process. So the sad truth about biological warfare is 261 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: that it is an ancient practice, it continues in the 262 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: modern day, it is going to continue in the future, 263 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: and it creates a need to obscure the truth. Right, 264 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: these insidious activities by powerful forces. So you create a 265 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: lie to lie about the things you did. Uh. And 266 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: in the case of governments, you usually the conspiracy often 267 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: starts when you're lying about how you screwed something up, 268 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: and then that creates another lie, right, and then that 269 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: creates another obsocation, another prevarication of some sort. But if 270 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: you go past the lie within the lie within the lie, 271 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: what you usually find is what the show calls a 272 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: grain of truth. Big fans of the oyster analogy, oysters 273 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: produce pearls, and those pearls always come from a grain 274 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: of sand. So just like other forms of folklore, just 275 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: like a uh an oyster creating a pearl, there's something there. 276 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: Humans don't make things up out of whole cloth or 277 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: or they can. Individual human beings can, but they do 278 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: not garner attention. They do not snowball, that's another good comparison, 279 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: nor escalate in less. People who are all quite intelligent, 280 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: by the way, can look at a story, can hear it, 281 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: and can identify something they know to be true at 282 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: the basis of that story. Well, and also like the 283 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: pearl that's created from an oyster, that grain of sam 284 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: it's in there is a source of irritation. It's like 285 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: a nagging thing that just won't let up and then 286 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: ultimately produces this this other thing. And I guess the 287 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: expression pearls of wisdom maybe comes from that. I don't know, 288 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: but I do like the idea of that grade of 289 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: sand being something that other people can identify with, because like, oh, 290 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: I was bothered by that too, and why let's follow 291 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: this through and then ultimately, if you do go through 292 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: the paces and do the work and do the research 293 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: and pay attention, you will come out on the other side. 294 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: With this pearl of truth and uh quite pro quo. 295 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: Uh here question for a question then, Uh, what were 296 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: some of your favorite parts about this chapter or what 297 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: what something that surprised you? For me, it was large 298 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: area coverage or operation large area coverage. Uh. We've talked 299 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: about that on the show before in the podcast form, 300 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: but to see it written out like completely here, it 301 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: reminds me of that concept of the lie within the 302 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: lie within the lie, because it is it's nineteen fifty 303 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: seven through night where this thing that the United States 304 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: government was taking part in, the Army chemical corey, they 305 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 1: conducted this thing that it just reminds me of something 306 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: would discuss on this show quite often, which is that 307 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: when a big problem occurs you already mentioned it a 308 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: moment ago, Ben, the conspiracy begins because of a lie, 309 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: because of a mess up right, because of somebody accidentally 310 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: did something or or everybody in this case thought spraying 311 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: these inert uh materials over the United States wouldn't do anything. 312 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,719 Speaker 1: If these are fine, these are inert agents, biological agents, 313 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: and we'll we'll be able to track them, but they're 314 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: not gonna do anything to anybody. They're not gonna have 315 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: any effect on anybody, and it didn't turn out that way. 316 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: It was in general it was to test fallout patterns 317 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: and like how if we were to be attacked, here's 318 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: where the stuff would go. Um, And it was sort 319 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: of like you know, doing good how work. So I 320 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: wouldn't say it was necessarily you know, malevolent from the 321 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: get go, but it was also probably not thought through 322 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: as well as it should have, or the the data 323 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: wasn't really there to know if these I mean, you know, 324 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: their best judgment was that it was going to be 325 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: inert quote unquote, but that did not end up being 326 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: the case. Counterpoint as well. There if Uncle Sam was 327 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,959 Speaker 1: so and a CEC were so certain this stuff was inert, 328 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: why did they target disadvantaged communities? That's one of the 329 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: that's one of the big dangerous questions. This also, by 330 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: the way, is the most likely origin of chemtrail conspiracy theories. 331 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: And again, to be clear, these not theories. This stuff 332 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 1: actually happened, and this is something there. There's a lot 333 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: of stuff here and this is a personal opinion said 334 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: with full sincerity and affection. Uh, there's a lot of 335 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: stuff here that this show had to fight for just 336 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: to get into this book. There were a lot of 337 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: things that were considered maybe uh not to say, too 338 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: hot for TV or too hot to handle, too cold 339 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: to hold, called the Ghostbusters consider in control. Uh, it's 340 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: Halloween as the show records this. So there were a 341 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: lot of things that had to be fought for here 342 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: because they were unpleasant. You know, Biological warfare is a 343 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: doozy to start a book with, especially if the book 344 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: just talks about this one aspect. In the roots of 345 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: biological warfare, you can find, if you were honest and objective, 346 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: you can find the predecessor, the precursor to chem trail theories. 347 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: You can find the precursor to ideas about fluoridation as 348 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: a weapon. Uh. And this this just goes on. The 349 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: second chapter is all gas, no breaks on human experimentation. 350 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: Questions for you guys, human experimentation hot button issue going 351 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: into this. Uh, what did you think about human experimentation? 352 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: Did you think it was something that was actively occurring, 353 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: did you think it was something that was sort of bonkers? 354 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: Did you think it was a relic of the unsavory 355 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: past like Unit seven thirty one and other World War 356 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: Two endeavors, etcetera. It's certainly a great follow up from 357 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: what we just talked about with biological warfare, because one 358 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 1: could argue that what the government did with what Matt 359 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: was just talking about that's addressed in the book is 360 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: human experimentation, um, because they're using humans as test subjects essentially, 361 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: even if they wouldn't come out and say they said 362 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: they were cracking wind patterns and stuff. But it goes 363 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: so much deeper than that, with things like the Tuskegee 364 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: experiments UM, where again um, you know minority communities were 365 00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: targeted to do horrific tests um and dehumanizing treatment of 366 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: of black and brown people. Yeah. I think commonly the 367 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: general public, including your faithful correspondent, believe that human experimentation 368 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: was a World War two thing, or at least you 369 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: have that sense about it, because we know about those, right, 370 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: We've read in our history books and we've seen on documentaries. 371 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: I think, like you said, Ben Unit one and the 372 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: things that the Nazis were doing, you can see that stuff. 373 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: It's written out there. But when you look a little bit, 374 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: I mean, like let's say fifties, sixty years in the 375 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: future and you get to the early two thousands and 376 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: you look at what's happening in black sites, let's say, 377 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: in the Middle East, things that are being done by 378 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: the US government, like could those be considered human experimentation 379 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: some of the enhanced interrogation techniques. So, I don't know, 380 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: it's a it's a question to ask. At least it's 381 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: an excellent question. Yeah, it's an excellent question. And unfortunately 382 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: the answers and accountability are often measures of convenience. UH 383 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: and and UH. One of the one of the things 384 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: that is wrapped up in human experimentation is the next 385 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: chapter surveillance. Uh, Surveillance, Thank you, surveillance. You are evil 386 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: and you've been so good to this show in terms 387 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: of uh, in terms of providing providing works. So uh. 388 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: Perhaps one of the most enjoyable moments here is the 389 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: comparison which the comparison of current five eyes Western surveillance 390 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: systems to the game six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. This 391 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: came talking about behind the scenes stuff this game of 392 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: from an unnamed source who used to work for a 393 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: little something called the Puzzle Palace, and remains one of 394 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: the best analogy slash comparisons for the the large scale 395 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: application of surveillance. Now it's not who you know folks, 396 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: it's not who you know and who they know. It 397 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: goes all the way out. As a matter of fact, 398 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: it's a surveillance system that is built by design to 399 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: theoretically monitor the activities of more people than exist in 400 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: the world at present. Again, you know, on publication this book, 401 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: several folks wrote to the show and said that they 402 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: understood where the argument was coming from. But those folks 403 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: brought up budgetary constraints, which is the funniest thing. It 404 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: just confirms another thing this show says often, which is 405 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: that the government programs are fighting against each other and 406 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: always need more money. But valance did it change anything 407 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: for you know, or for you Matt about how you 408 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: behave this show or the culmination in this book in 409 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: a way. But ultimately what this the research for this 410 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: book and what's actually included in here in this chapter 411 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: just made me think more and more about the nineteen 412 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: sixties through the eighties for something like I'm sorry, that's 413 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: just what it did for me, because we went through 414 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: the Edwards Snowden saga in Prism, right. We were making 415 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: this show when that was occurring, so we got to 416 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: cover that in real time. I feel like I have 417 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: a personal understanding of that. That's at let's let's give 418 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: it a sevent I feel pretty good. I can get 419 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: a c if I talk about that just extemporaneously. But 420 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: what I don't know a ton about, or what I 421 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: didn't know until he wrote this book, was the stuff 422 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: that was happening around in the Echelon days in you know, 423 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: those those earlier days where there were there were also whistleblowers. 424 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: What is it, Ben, Margaret Newsham, somebody like I think 425 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: somebody like that, Margaret Margaret, somebody named Margaret I know 426 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 1: for sure talked about Echelon and she worked at Lockheed 427 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: and she found out about this stuff, and then she 428 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: became a whistleblower and told the world about it, essentially. 429 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: And I think there's Echelon, by the way, another one 430 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: of these, um well, aspying effort, or I guess in 431 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: an intelligence effort to send signals to the United States 432 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: government to monitor stuff that's going through like satellite dishes 433 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: for communications and the Soviet monitoring Soviet communications. So that's 434 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: like nineties nine seventies we're talking about. But I didn't 435 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: know about that stuff. Uh. And you know, if you 436 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: don't know about it, maybe you should read this chapter. 437 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: Not to make it sound too much like an infomercial, folks, 438 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: but yes, this is this is not common knowledge, it's 439 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: not stuff. Oh no, I'm making it full full infomercial. 440 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: So they're there are more things to get to surveillance. 441 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: As you can probably tell, this show gets uh gets 442 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: involved very quickly with these things. Uh, these are things 443 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: that show beliefs are important. Probably best to skip U 444 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: A p UFOs right now. There's a chapter on that, 445 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: uh stuff they want you to know. Fought to keep 446 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: that in the book. No regrets. There there's a recent 447 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: ongoing U A p ufo news. Check out recent episodes 448 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: for that. Uh quick, you know, game time decision maybe, Um, 449 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: how about cutting to a commercial break and then talking 450 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: just briefly about things like propaganda, coup's assassinations, secret societies, lobbying, 451 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: and of course what better way to end drugs? Returned 452 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: propaganda smack dab in the middle of the work one 453 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: of the concepts that inspired the bizarre journey that began 454 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: in the first place all these years ago. Yeah, of 455 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: the podcast like Burn's and just the idea of what 456 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: marketing is and how inextricable is marketing from propaganda at 457 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: the end of the day, and the psychological concepts that 458 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: are in place to convince people to do stuff. This 459 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: one leads right into Cusan assassinations, because one of the 460 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: big things Bernet's convinced, you know, the US population to do, 461 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: was to be okay with war and to want war 462 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: because it would be good for us and it would 463 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: be good for everybody involved. We need to go to war. 464 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: Uh So, let's talk Whusan assassinations, you guys, sure. Yeah. 465 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: The euphemism is targeted killings, which is not super great 466 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: as far as euphemisms go. Uh, it could be something, 467 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: you know, uh, something like non consensual hospital decisions. Uh 468 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: so the yeah, tip your weight staff and so on. 469 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: So this idea, the idea of a coup is and 470 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: an assassination. They're they're ugly things and things most politicians 471 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: and multinational conglomerates don't want to be openly associated with, 472 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: but they happened. The United States alone has launched, aided, 473 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: or abetted many many coups. So much so in fact, 474 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: that when this show was doing some research on the 475 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: ongoing protests in Iran, one of the immediate questions the 476 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: show had to ask was is Uncle Sam involved, Because 477 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam sure as heck, was instrumental in the nine 478 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: nine coup that sent that country again full of innocent people, 479 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: down such a horrific path. It's enough to make one 480 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: wonder whether there was some sort of couple dare say, 481 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: a secret society at play? What serendipity? What a kinky 482 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: dink shout out to you, listener. Turns out that's next chapter. 483 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: Secret Societies talks in depth about the true, provable origins 484 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: of the group's calling themselves Illuminati. Crazy plot twist here, 485 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: fellow listeners, The folks who called themselves Illuminati were the 486 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: good guys and their story. They weren't jerks, They weren't 487 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: trying to take over the world. They were trying to 488 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: fight against an oppressive regime that considered anything off base 489 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: from a very particular sort of Christian theology to be 490 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: thought crime. They really were the good guys, and just 491 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: the other Enlightenment era kind of secret societies that were 492 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: usually rebelling against codified ignorance or in some way codified 493 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: blind faith, you know, just following the state or some 494 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: religious organization, you know, like the Catholic Church. So over time, 495 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: I think, you know, in secrecy. Often it's easy to 496 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,239 Speaker 1: find um reasons that people might want to keep their 497 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: activities secret because they're nefarious, their nefarious activities. But again, 498 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: no spoilers. There's there are certainly m nefarious secrets out there, 499 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: But in general, I think folks would be surprised at 500 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: how much this concept has co opted, uh to to 501 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: to to breed fear um versus what they actually historically 502 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: were and represented. Ben, what is your favorite secret society 503 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: that's in the book? Well, favorite secret society in this 504 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: book heavily alluded to would probably be, uh the thing 505 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: that functions very much like a deep state, which brings 506 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: brings this show to the next chapter of this book, 507 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: which is political corruption a K. Lobbying a K. The 508 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: thing that is. Hello, areas to explain to all your 509 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: friends who are not from the US, who don't understand 510 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: rightly why the US has such a problem being honest 511 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: with itself. And Uh, look, entities in the US bribe 512 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: the government all the time. They just call it lobbying. 513 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: It's very so it's a very different thing. And and 514 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: politics have become a real third rail and discourse in 515 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,240 Speaker 1: the United States. That's to the detriment of the country. 516 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: And to be honest, there's a conspiracy there that is 517 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: a personal opinion not to inject oneself too much. Why 518 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: is that opinion there? Because if there's one winner in 519 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: all the sound and fury of increasingly tribalistic politics, it's 520 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: big business. Always has been. Uh, there's not there's not 521 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: really what one would call a people's movement, not less 522 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: that immediately be thought terminated into a cliche of social 523 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: is um by people's movement here that means simply some 524 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: sort of movement that says, why not support the other 525 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: three hundred thirty something million people who live, sweat, celebrate 526 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: and die in this country? How did the propaganda become 527 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: so pervasive, so convincing. The answer is is cobals. The 528 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: answer is political corruption, right, Um, it's And if you 529 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: want to look to the effectiveness of this, all one 530 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: has to do, at least in this country is to 531 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: look toward the war on drugs, which is the final 532 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: chapter of this book. Yeah, and I mean, you know, 533 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: on one level, it could be argued the war on 534 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: drugs has been incredibly successful and then it's been very profitable, 535 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: um and allowed a lot of folks that maybe we're 536 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: not otherwise going to be subject to this, especially after 537 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 1: the end of slavery, to be enslaved. Essentially, I mean 538 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: the idea of uh, certain low level non violent drug 539 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: crimes being a gateway into getting the prison population kind 540 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: of amped up um, and then what that leads to 541 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: in terms of folks using prison labor, you know, for 542 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: commercial purposes. And drugs really are profitable, aren't they. Yeah, 543 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: the drugs themselves and the war against them, because the 544 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,399 Speaker 1: war on drugs is itself a propaganda war. Uh, it's 545 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 1: a war that can never be one, which is honestly, 546 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: if your uncle Sam, or your big business or your 547 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: whomever is profited, that's the kind of war you want 548 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 1: to wage a war against an idea can never be 549 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: truly one, right, and that that is a beautiful thing. 550 00:36:53,280 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: Consider also the model of big monopolies and corporations. Ever 551 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: accuse human beings of being super original. If you are 552 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: a faction, legal department probably requires the show to phrase 553 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: it thus Lee, If you are a faction of the 554 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: company the CIA, then why not practice a little bit 555 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:24,280 Speaker 1: of vertical integration? Why not control the manufacturers of the drugs, 556 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,359 Speaker 1: why not control the transit roots of those drugs, Why 557 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: do I control the profits they and maybe even try 558 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: and get your hands in that distribution model. Maybe probably not, 559 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: then that might be too difficult. And all of this 560 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: is you know, laid out very loocidly in this chapter, 561 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 1: and this is very quick. This uh, this episode has 562 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: not answered some of the questions about what ended up 563 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: getting left out. Entire chapters on cryptids, on ghosts, on 564 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: the evolution of folklore surrounding what uh what people think 565 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: of when they think of monsters. Where does the idea 566 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: of the like and throw, the skin changer, the shape 567 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: shifter come from? What about the idea of the vampire? 568 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: Why did both pop up independently throughout ancient civilizations? That 569 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:22,760 Speaker 1: might be something for a second book. There's an original 570 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: finale chapter and it was all about Mothman's abs. We 571 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 1: had to take the whole thing out and how much 572 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: he looks like he Man he man action figure. Yeah 573 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: that's true, but no, it's true, I mean. And again, 574 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: another interesting part about working with the publishing world is 575 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: it is it is important to focus things and we 576 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: have the luxury with the show about every episode kind 577 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: of being its own thing, um one episode after the other. 578 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 1: Unless it's a multi partner, doesn't really have to, you know, 579 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: be kind of siloed in a book. Uh, you kind 580 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: of do have to do that. So we really did 581 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: have to hone things down a little bit, and what 582 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: you get is exhaustively researched book about real conspiracies, specifically 583 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: involving you know, the government and the things they literally 584 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,320 Speaker 1: don't want you to know, and how to discern the 585 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: conspiracy reality from the conspiracy theory. I would say, what's 586 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: particularly cool about this guy's in this show, we are 587 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: constantly calling back to other episodes we've done. We did 588 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: a full episode on that, a full episode on this 589 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: back in back. In this book, you actually get to 590 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: see that entire arc and the connections laid out as 591 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: you go, and the flow is really smooth. So it 592 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,839 Speaker 1: really does take you on a journey. And I am 593 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: selling it hard because I think you should buy this 594 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 1: book both for yourself and for somebody you care about. 595 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: Right now, I don't care, And if you don't care 596 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: for that book, why not buy it for your enemies? Perfect, 597 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: perfect gift. Thank you so much to everyone who made 598 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: this possible. Again, thank you to you, fellow conspiracy realis 599 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: Hope you enjoyed it. Hope it's a kind of read 600 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 1: that keeps you up in diet or, in the case 601 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: of the audio book, helps you catch some z s 602 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 1: and slumber along with some A s MR question for 603 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 1: you the most important part of the show. What do 604 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: you think? What would you like to see in another book? 605 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: Let the show know? Trying to be easy to find online? Yeah, 606 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: try and usually succeed and then you can find us 607 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: at the handle Conspiracy Stuff on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. 608 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: Conspiracy Stuff Show on Instagram phone number one eight three 609 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: three std w y t K. 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