1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: Body dius, but Joseph's gotten more. I don't nobody, y'all. 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: But when I meet somebody for the first time, and 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,159 Speaker 1: after I've engaged in a conversation with him, maybe a 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: couple of minutes, one of the things I like to 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: ask is, so, where y'all from. I don't do that 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: as like an insult or anything like that, or a 7 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: statement of judgment. I genuinely want to know where you're from, 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: because where you're from kind of dictates, you know, maybe 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: your life experience. I'm fascinated how people wind up in 10 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: certain locations. I've got a nod thing that I do 11 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: anytime I meet from somebody from California, I always ask 12 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: when I said, well, what is was your family? Like 13 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: an original California or californ when you settle her, because 14 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: those are kind of rare to come by. I'm always 15 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: fascinated by that. But one of the questions in forensics 16 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: that we ask many times is were you from? Or 17 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: where are they from? Referring to them. Of course, in 18 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: my profession the dead, that question gets even more complex 19 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: when you're asking that of remains that have been found 20 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: in a skeletal state. Today, we're going to chat about 21 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: the skeleton remains of a young lady that was last 22 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: seen at least one hundred miles away, but then she 23 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: was found in another state. 24 00:01:59,400 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: Skeleton. 25 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Bags Dave. 26 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: I know you're from California. I ya. 27 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: I am from born and raised in southern California, Joe, 28 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 3: but like millions of others, moved away and live elsewhere. 29 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 3: And one of the places I have lived is in 30 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 3: Gwinnette County, Georgia, in Lawrenceville. Gwinette County is not in Atlanta. 31 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 3: It's outside of Atlanta. Lawrenceville and that are outside of Atlanta. 32 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 3: The reason I'm pointing that out. The story was first 33 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 3: reported as twenty year old Marie Ange Faith Martinez was 34 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 3: at the Atlanta courthouse waiting to be picked up by 35 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 3: her mother. Her mother was ten minutes away from the 36 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 3: courthouse in Atlanta when Marie Faith Martinez says, she has 37 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 3: her ride, so it doesn't somebody she doesn't know, but 38 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 3: she's taking a ride with this person. And mom says, Okay. 39 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 3: That struck me as odd because getting to the courthouse 40 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 3: in Atlanta is no small feet and if you're that 41 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: close to it. You're not giving up that unit. No, 42 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 3: you don't get in a car with somebody you don't know. 43 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 3: I'm almost there, But that's not where Marie Ange Faith 44 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 3: Martinez was. She was not in Atlanta at the courthouse. 45 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 3: She was at the Gwenette County Courthouse. That makes a 46 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 3: difference now for the rest of the story. The geography 47 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: really does matter here because Maury and Faith Martinez was 48 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 3: seen at the Gwenette County Courthouse. Her mother had contact 49 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 3: with her there, but the minute she gets into a 50 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 3: white truck with a man she doesn't know, all contact ceases. 51 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: Gwinett County actually has had a mall called the Gwenette 52 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 3: Place Mall. It was at one time one of the 53 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 3: largest malls in America, but over the years, like millions 54 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 3: of other malls, it trunk down to nothing and now 55 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 3: it's used for television shows like Stranger Things is filmed 56 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 3: inside what used to be the Gwinnette Place Mall. But 57 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 3: that's Gwenett County. That's what we're talking about here. That's 58 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 3: where this story starts, not in downwo Atlanta. 59 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: That means something, Yeah, yeah, it does, and it goes to. 60 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: Well, first off, you know I was talking about geography. 61 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: Just a second, she's walking out of this criminal justice complex, 62 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: which I think is kind of anytime you hear that 63 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: term that means like the courthouse and the jail and 64 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: maybe police headquarters depended upon what jurisdiction you're in. This 65 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: thing is massive, d I mean, it's absolutely massive. And 66 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: there's a couple of those around in the various counties 67 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: around Atlanta, and each one of them are large. I 68 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: don't know if that speaks to the level of crime, 69 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: you know, because they have to handle, you know, such 70 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: a volume. But anytime I have someone telling me that 71 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: you have an individual that is standing outside of the jail, 72 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: the first thing I'm going to think of is, well, 73 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: why were you there? Were you there for a court appearance? 74 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: Were you visiting somebody, or had you've been in residence there, 75 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, as an inmate, And I think those are 76 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: legitimate questions. It's like I got to tell you, I've 77 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time around courthouses and over the 78 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: course of my career, you know, either in the courtroom itself, 79 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: providing testimony, meeting with DA's office, or parish thought. I 80 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: hated working working desks inside jails. I hated it and 81 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: that I have had to do. 82 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: Okay, have you done a lot of those? 83 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 3: I don't mean I'm not chasing the rabbit here, but 84 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 3: you know you have mentioned going into a jail too 85 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 3: because somebody was dead. Yeah, we're not talking about natural 86 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 3: causes there. 87 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: I mean, no, you. 88 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: Can and that happens. I mean, it's like any other 89 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: kind of population really, Oh yeah, yeah, And you've got 90 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: a lot of males in there. You have older males, generally, 91 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: males that you know don't die as a result of 92 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: some kind of violent event or maybe some kind of 93 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: drug addicted event. Once you hit a certain level age wise, 94 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: and you're unhealthy to begin with, there's a high probability 95 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: you're gonna have a heart attack. I mean that's just 96 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: you know, you're rolling the dice. It's number and call 97 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: it heart diseases like number one killer and has been 98 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: for years. 99 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 3: Older dudes or older people would end up in the 100 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 3: infirmary or something they wouldn't in the gail. 101 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: Many times they do. But every now and then you're 102 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: going to have somebody that has undiagnosed heart ailment and 103 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: they're found cold and stiff. Now some listen, some jails 104 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: will say, uh, Yeah, we're not going to leave them 105 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: and sell. We're going to take them to the infirmary. 106 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: At this point in time, they're already deceased, you know, 107 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: whereas you look at a case like Epstein, uh, where 108 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: you know they thought, I guess, for whatever reason, that 109 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: he might have been salvagable. So you've got EMTs coming 110 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: into that space, which is always fascinating to me because 111 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: there's so much crap you have to carry in. I 112 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: don't carry in as a death investigator as much as 113 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: they do, but can imagine taking a defibrillator. You got 114 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: to that gurney, there's a couple of you, and dude, 115 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: you got to go through security. So there's got these 116 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: stops along. 117 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 3: Even when you're the medical guy and they know, you 118 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 3: still have to go through security and explain why you 119 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 3: need all this stuff. Meanwhile, you got a guy over 120 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 3: here struggling to take his last breath. Yeah, and hold on, 121 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 3: wait a minute. You got to go back through the 122 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 3: wanding area again. 123 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, here, take your gurny back. It doesn't 124 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: happen like that. They have, you know, necessarily, but it is, 125 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: and I understand it's not necessarily. I was going to 126 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: use a word absurd, it's not. But yeah, I've spent time, 127 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: you know, working cases in there. I hate it because 128 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: you feel, you know, they strip you of everything that 129 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: you have, you know, even my scene bag. Right, lots 130 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: of times I was only permitted to take certain things. 131 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: That's certain metal objects I couldn't have. ID have to 132 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: surrender a weapon and my badge, all that sort of stuff. 133 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: But with her, you know, you're thinking, why are you 134 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: at the jail? And that's that's where that's a thread 135 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: you want to pull on in this case, because who 136 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: is generally around courthouses and jails that are on the outside. Well, 137 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: you got people that are visiting people, you got people 138 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: that have court appearances, and you have people that have 139 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: been doing time, yeah you know inside of there. And 140 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,239 Speaker 1: it's a county jail, so it's not like it's a prison. 141 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: There's a big difference. But you've got people that are 142 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: not necessarily at the highlight in their life, you know, 143 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: and so it's a recipe for a disaster. And that 144 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: was one of the big questions I had when I 145 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: heard about this poor, poor young woman, thinking, well, why 146 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: was she there in the first place. And that's something 147 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: that investigators would look at Dave. 148 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 3: And that's exactly where you and I started in researching 149 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 3: this particular story. She's at the Gwinnett County Her mom 150 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 3: is on her way to pick her up at the 151 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 3: Gwinnett County courthouse. They're on the phone and Maury and 152 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 3: Faith Martinez is twenty years old. She is a bit 153 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 3: worldly and she's on the phone with her and she says, 154 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 3: I got a guy here that's going to give me 155 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 3: a ride. 156 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: And you don't need to come. 157 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 1: Yikes. 158 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, And she doesn't know this person who's going to 159 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 3: give her a ride, but indicates to her mother that 160 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: the guy is with a recovery program. Now, you mentioned 161 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 3: a minute ago about the reason somebody might be around 162 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 3: a courthouse, you know, being from jail or what have you. 163 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 3: And in this particular case, at twenty years old, her 164 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 3: mother says that that Morine Faith Martinez had had her 165 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 3: issues with drugs. Fentanyl in particular is mentioned. And she 166 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 3: gets in this white truck to take off to go 167 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 3: to wherever mom was on her way to pick her 168 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 3: up to take her home. Now, she has n't been 169 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 3: living at home with mom for a while. She actually 170 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 3: has been on her own doing her own thing. She 171 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 3: is twenty years old. She's not a child child child, 172 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 3: but she's not full grown, legal, twenty one year old 173 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 3: enough adult. Last time Mom texts her talk Store is 174 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 3: in that moment when she gets into the truck with 175 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 3: the guy. Guy she doesn't know. Mom texts her. Mom 176 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 3: gets a bad feeling about it, but never gets another reply. 177 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 3: The last thing she knows is that her daughter gets 178 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 3: into a vehicle with somebody she doesn't know, ostensibly to 179 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 3: take her home. 180 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: And there you go when we consider this journey, and 181 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: make no mistake, it is a journey because this young 182 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: woman did not live with her mother. She actually lived 183 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: in another jurisdiction, in the town of Alpharetta, which is 184 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: actually in Fulton County. But yet she's been at the 185 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: courthouse in Gwinette County. As we'll find out, that was 186 00:10:47,160 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: only the first stop. We still have two more to go. Brother, Dave, 187 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you it would be an insult to 188 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: you to say that we have problem with fentanyl in 189 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: this country, because even though I say it a lot, 190 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: you've heard it a lot more than everybody else because 191 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: you're a newsguy and you have to wade through. But 192 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: you know, in this case state, there's an indication that 193 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: fentanyl may be involved in this case. There is actually 194 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: one report out there that she had had some struggles 195 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: with fentanyl addiction. 196 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 2: Perhaps that is of the devil, isn't it. 197 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: Boy? 198 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 3: I tell you what, brother, As we delve into this, 199 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 3: I have a couple of questions for you, specifically and 200 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 3: generally about fentanyl. As a normal person growing up in 201 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 3: the United States of America, we have seen our share 202 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 3: of drugs that become popular, you know, for brief periods 203 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 3: of time. In particular, I think about marijuana and the 204 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 3: hippies and the sixties and LSD and things like that, 205 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 3: and crank, the psychedelics of the sixties and early seven ties, 206 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 3: and then you end up with cocaine in the mid seventies, 207 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 3: late seventies and through the early eighties, powder cocaine, then crack. 208 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 3: You know, the crack bottomed out, became the base, and 209 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 3: it became the drug of choice for many. Heroin has 210 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 3: always kind of lingered in the top. 211 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: Isn't that weird? With heroin? It kind of rises and falls. 212 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: And we can't forget designer drugs either. Yeah, Because I 213 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: got to tell you, I still remember the first case 214 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: that I ever had dave that involved X, and I 215 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: was like, why do you call it X? And that 216 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: was my first introduction to designer drugs. But you know, 217 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: you've heroin and opiates have always been in the background 218 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: all along. I think about you know, matter of fact, 219 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: if you ever watched the old movie Say Old I 220 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: love this movie Tombstone, there's a scene in that movie 221 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: where powers booth and you know, of course it's a 222 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: fictionalized version. In Tombstone, he's actually in an opium den 223 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: smoking opium. And so you've had opiates around forever and ever, 224 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 1: and they're kind of the spine in an addiction that 225 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: runs through here in fentanyl is yeah, I mean traditionally 226 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: it's been an analgesic. You know, there were fentanyl patches. 227 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 3: Right those people say, there's been times with going from 228 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 3: cocaine to crack to meth and being the street side 229 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 3: of things, people grabbing it. And then you had the 230 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 3: other side, which was heroin, and then he'll billy heroin 231 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 3: with oxycon and things like that, And we had all 232 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 3: these different things that were horrible and evil and just 233 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 3: were massively addicted from a very very short usage time. 234 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 3: And then for some reason fentanyl. Fentanyl shows up during 235 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 3: the oxycon days in terms of being prescribed by doctors, 236 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 3: and I remember it being the patch, the fentanyl patch 237 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 3: for any of you know that in my private life, 238 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 3: I help people find sobriety through recovery. And one of 239 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 3: the things we saw back in this time period we're 240 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 3: talking about two thousand early two thousands, as people were 241 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 3: trying to move away from oxy conton the pill, and 242 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: it was the fentanyl patch that became this for those 243 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 3: suffering heavy duty pain chronic you know, put this patch 244 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 3: on for a couple of days whatever. And of course, 245 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 3: like anything else, very short order addicts found out, well, 246 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 3: poke holes in it, dip it, and you know, well, 247 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 3: wear a couple of patches at the same time, take 248 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 3: a bath, to any number of things to get high. 249 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 2: Then it got you. 250 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 3: Well if you take the pat if you separate the patch, 251 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 3: and you get the film, and you oh my gosh, 252 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 3: just the things people do. I always think, if these 253 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 3: people would use their intellect, creativity and drive for good, 254 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 3: they rule the world. 255 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you think that. And and but yet that 256 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: that story you know, continues. 257 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 2: How addiculous pentanyl regard it. 258 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: But if you compare yeah, and the thing about it 259 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: is is that, Dave, here's the problem. It's kind of 260 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: like crack in the sense that when and I was 261 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: around when crack first burst on the scene. 262 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 2: Addicted on the first hit kind of thing. 263 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and here's the thing about crack that made 264 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: crack so attractive, if it can be, is that only 265 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: rich people snorted coke. With crack, you can essentially bake 266 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: it down, crack off a piece and a very small 267 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: amount will just get you blasted. Well, well, fentanyl it 268 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: doesn't require as much as, say, for instance, like heroin 269 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: or morphine. I think that and people say that it's 270 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: like one hundred times more powerful than morphine. So just 271 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: a couple of tiny little grains of fentyl can put 272 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: you on the moon. All right, and it's very dangerous. 273 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: You got things that are laced with it out there. 274 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 3: But she is going to ask you about the fentanyl 275 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 3: thing with lacing and yeah, that means he's adding fentanyl 276 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 3: to other drugs to give it a bigger kick. 277 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 2: Now, yes, all right. 278 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 3: Dealers are not scientists. Okay, they are not. They're not 279 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 3: wearing a lab coat and they're they're actually there are 280 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 3: people you wouldn't trust to balance your checkbook, and you're 281 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 3: actually buying drugs from them that being created in their 282 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 3: bathroom in the trailer. Okay, and that's why fentanyl was 283 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 3: it used by the druggies to so they could water 284 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 3: down the whatever drug they were selling and put a 285 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 3: little fentonyl to give it a kick. 286 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. And the kick is is an interesting term. It 287 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: would it would give you and gives people this hide 288 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: that is unbelievable. And so once you you kind of 289 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: put that blood in the water, you've created a unique 290 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: product that is unique to the particular dealer and people 291 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: want more of it. It's like, Wow, that was that 292 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: was incredible. 293 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 3: I got to assume Jay I got this from Joe 294 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 3: Scott Morgan. It's got the devil's smiley face on the front. 295 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 3: He knows what he's for him. 296 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I think that it's almost like a 297 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: it's like addiction addiction with the face of a salesman, 298 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: and so it's it's one of those types of things. 299 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: And but you know, Dave, she had she our young 300 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: lady here had had been through fentanyl addiction. Apparently her 301 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: mother had alluded to this. We've read at least two 302 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: stories now that have alluded to this, and you have 303 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: to think about the sorts of people that It's not 304 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: like she's running down to the local doc in the 305 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: box and saying, hey, doc, you know, prescribe me some fentanyl. 306 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: And again this goes back to who picked her up 307 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: at the jail, Dave, I want to know, and let 308 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: me throw one more thing at you if you like 309 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: that one. She's stunning. I mean, she is physically stunning 310 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: when you see her. I'd want to know if there 311 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: was something else running deeper here, because you have this 312 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: beautiful young woman and you've got somebody out there that 313 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: maybe is providing her with these drugs, that's taking advantage 314 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: of her. And we're not going to go too far 315 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: down that road because I don't have any way to 316 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: validate that. But from an investigative standpoint, you want to 317 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: ask that question. And with a death investigation, particularly in 318 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: a case like this, there's not a lot left you know, 319 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: when you're doing your examination, particularly in this case, so 320 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: you historically you have to go back and kind of 321 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: do a retroactive kind of investigation where you're looking into 322 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: even her medical records, if she detoxed. You want a 323 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: subpoena those records and find out where was she in life, 324 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: what was her level of dependency, had she had relapsed 325 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: this before, and how long has this been going on? Dave, 326 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: she was only twenty, you know, she was not of 327 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: legal age to you know, to purchase alcohol or smokes. 328 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: But yet she is involved with one of the most 329 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: insidious substances in modern history. And so you have to 330 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: ask those questions, you know, when you're conducting an investigation, 331 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: I think the first place I'd like to know is 332 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 1: this person who was this individual? And they're talking about 333 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: this is kind of curious. They've talked about how a 334 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: white man as she is standing outside of the jail, 335 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: is caught on CCTV speaking with her, and then they 336 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: go on to say, well, this white male shows up 337 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: in a white truck, so they're able to get clarity 338 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: according to reports that it's the same guy driving the truck. 339 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but when I'm looking in 340 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 1: a truck, I can't really unless you know, unless I 341 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: know you, I don't necessarily know who is in the truck. 342 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: I can't even make out what race you are, what 343 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: your size is. Most of the time, who pays attention 344 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 1: to that. But they're saying that they have apparently an 345 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: image of this, and I found that interesting that still 346 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: to this point, we don't know who this person is. 347 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: We don't know where this road leads, Dave. 348 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 3: And here we are. We know she goes missing from 349 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 3: this date. To give you some dates, she was reported 350 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 3: missing on August twenty eighth by her mom. She actually 351 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 3: was last seing August twenty first at the courthouse. Okay, 352 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 3: that was when she gets in the car in the 353 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 3: truck with the guy that she doesn't know. Mom worries 354 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 3: from the very beginning. Seven days later reports are missing. 355 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,239 Speaker 3: We are dealing with a young woman who is an 356 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 3: adult who does not live with her mother. She lives 357 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 3: in a different place with a couple of guys. So 358 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 3: police are a little bit I don't know how they 359 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 3: approach this in terms of a missing person. If you 360 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 3: have a young teenager who goes missing but they live 361 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 3: with you, you know, in your family home, that's different report, yes, 362 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 3: And that's not the case here because she was on 363 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 3: her own, living with other people. And so when she 364 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 3: was reported missing, police did investigate. 365 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 2: Hopped on it, Joe. 366 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 3: They didn't blow it off and say oh, not worried, 367 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 3: because they actually tracked her from Gwinnett County to an 368 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 3: area in Cobb County. And you're gonna have to break 369 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 3: this down because I don't know powers Ferry Road. But 370 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 3: the police were able to figure out here's where she 371 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 3: was really last seen or that we actually know she was, 372 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 3: so they followed her from Gwennette Place, Gwinnett County, to 373 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 3: Cobb County and Georgia. And then I'm gonna go ahead 374 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 3: because we got to get into this. She goes missing, 375 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 3: don't know where she is. We've lost boom, it's we 376 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 3: don't It's now going to be a cold case until 377 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 3: just outside of Chattanooga, Tennessee, one hundred miles to the north, 378 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 3: police find something. 379 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: In a rural area. You know, they have found her 380 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: skeletal remains, and you know you're talking. It's Hamilton County, 381 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: which you know for Tennessee in Tennessee, and it's the 382 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: same you know, Chattanooga's actually the county seat. The geography 383 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: is kind of interesting up there because if you go 384 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,959 Speaker 1: in on any of the major arteries, the roadways that 385 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: go in there, it's a it's notorious. Chattoogah's notorious forgetting y' 386 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: all twisted around because you've got a confluence of various 387 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: roadways that come in there. I think it's like fifty I, 388 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: fifty nine I twenty four, which you would take out 389 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: of Chattanooga to go to Nashville, for instance, and then 390 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: you've got one of the largest interstates in the nation, 391 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: which is seventy five, and it splits off and breaks 392 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: back to the northeast. So if you're you know, if 393 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 1: you're heading up north, so you've got this confluence of 394 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: all of these roadways that are up there. And the 395 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: fact that she is found now they're saying found in 396 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: a rural area in Hamilton County. Just because the city 397 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: of Chattanooga is there doesn't mean that outside of there 398 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 1: it it's densely populated. It ain't because you can get 399 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: into country really quick up there. And you know, you 400 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: think about this, well, how did you get from Gwinnette County, 401 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: which is on the far east side northeast of Atlanta, 402 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: all the way and you've got this phone pinging as 403 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: it is moving. I'm saying it is moving, not she 404 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: is moving, Dave. And we've learned this lesson in the past. 405 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: It is moving up seventy five at this point in time, Well, 406 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: who goes to Chattanooga and who would know? I think 407 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 1: one of the big questions is who would feel comfortable 408 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: enough seeking out a rural area to deposit a twenty 409 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: year old's body. I love Tennessee. I love going up there. 410 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: I've been going there since I was eight or nine. 411 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: But when you consider that up in Hamilton County, you've 412 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: got a young woman whose remains are found in a 413 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: rural location. One of the first questions I'm going to 414 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: ask is, well, what was the status of the death scene? 415 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: Or that's not an appropriate, appropriate comment, I don't think 416 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 1: because or an accurate comment, because if you say death scene, oh, ok, 417 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: that implies that the death occurred there. I guess the 418 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: proper term would be what was the deposition site like? 419 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: Because Dave, from what we understand, it's the site contained 420 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: skeletal remains. 421 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 3: I was going to say, Joe, now I understand what 422 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 3: you're saying about the death scene and not knowing because 423 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 3: all they found from August twenty twenty three. We're talking 424 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 3: about the first week of January. We're not talking in 425 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 3: a long period of time, Joe, for a twenty year 426 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 3: old woman to go from standing outside the courthouse to 427 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 3: skeletonized remains. And they're found outside Chattanooga in a rural area, 428 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 3: and we don't know how they were found in terms 429 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 3: where they just piled up on top of one another. 430 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 3: Did somebody build a sign out of them and make 431 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 3: you know what was going on? We don't know. But 432 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 3: I got some questions, Joe. How fast does a human 433 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 3: body become skeletonized remains, even if the body is laid 434 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 3: outside to the elements. 435 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's, as I always say, my default position 436 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: with this is it is environmentally dependent. You have what's 437 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: referred to as a surface deposition, which is where you 438 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: take a body and essentially lay it down on the ground. 439 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: And just think of you hear this term a lot 440 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: in our line of work. You hear this term a 441 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: body dump, and that means that body dump implies that 442 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: somebody was moving quickly, they had a location where they're 443 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: just going to take and this happens. Hey, hey man, Look, 444 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: I've worked cases where I've had to go and I've 445 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: found skeleton remains or remnants of skeleton remains in ditches. 446 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: So what that tells me is an investigator somebody rolls 447 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: up along the road. Ditches run alongside roads, they open 448 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: the door and they essentially just pulled maybe an entire 449 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: human body intact, dump it in the ditch. Well that 450 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: body just by virtue of what we know about ditches. 451 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: Ditches their purpose is to drain water, right, so the 452 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: environment in that particular location is going to be dictated 453 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: by heavy rain. That's one of the reasons we didn't 454 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: find all of the elements of the skeleton in that 455 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: particular case, because they've got a long, long way that 456 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: they can just be washed to and you're not always 457 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: going to see it because then you've got scavenger activity 458 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: that's going to come up for a while. That body 459 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: would remain intact. But when you're talking about if it 460 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: sounds like there's not a lot of excavation going on here. 461 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: This sounds like a surface deposition of the body, which 462 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: implies to me the person didn't take time with the body. 463 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: It was viewed to them or by them as an inconvenience, 464 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: or they're trying to get as much distance between them. 465 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: Now I will go ahead and make this big reveal, 466 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: and this happens. Unfortunately, a lot in skeletal remains today 467 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: as in our case here, they can't come up with 468 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: a cause of death. They can't and the biggest generally 469 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: one of the biggest problems that you have in a 470 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: case like this where you can't determine cause of death 471 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: and you've got skeletal remains. This just no soft tissue, 472 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: so you can't make a diagnosis that's based on hemorrhage. 473 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: Now you can look at the body the skeletal remains 474 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: and say, well, I've got fractures here. But are those 475 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: fractures as a result of anti mortem trauma or is 476 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: it a post mortem event where bone snap as they 477 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: go through de ka. I can't imagine that would be 478 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: the case here because she had not been down that long, 479 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: but it was sufficient enough for skeletonization to begin, and 480 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: it it can. I've seen bodies go pretty quickly in 481 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: particularly humid environments where there's a lot of heat. 482 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 2: You got this is very humid, Yeah, yeah, it is. 483 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: And you're also putting in the element of scavenger activity. 484 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: You've got codes. Codes are everywhere around this area of 485 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: South We have them here, I've seen them in my yard. 486 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: They certainly have them up in Tennessee as well. You've 487 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: got wild hogs that we have a major problem with 488 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: in South I can't speak to Hamilton County that much, 489 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: but I do know that they're out there and they 490 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: will root on a body. And then you've got smaller animals, 491 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: you've got wild dogs too. So if any of that 492 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: was introduced into the equation, that's another factor that has 493 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: to be considered. And if you have skeletal remains and 494 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: you do have animal activity, and look, I'm going to 495 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: be very blunt in the body bags. You're talking about 496 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: postmartem feasting on bodies, and so there would be evidence 497 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: of that on bone as well. And you have to 498 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: be able to tell the difference between again, postmortem trauma 499 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: on the body as opposed to what happened in life 500 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: that brought about her death. She's twenty years old day. 501 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: She should not be dead. So that leads us down 502 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: a very sinister path, doesn't it. 503 00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 3: And that's where could you tell from the bones if 504 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 3: she ingested drugs prior to death? Fittonel specifically, could we 505 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 3: find out from the bones. 506 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: Not simply based on bone itself. It's not in the 507 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: narrow No, it's not. And here's the problem. They have 508 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: really released so very little information that we don't really 509 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: have a a source of data as far as soft 510 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: tissue that may have remained. 511 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 3: Okay, let me ask you this show as long as 512 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 3: we're there, because we don't know, but your background you've done. 513 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 3: Every time we do the show, I find out something 514 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 3: different that you have done, and I love that. But 515 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 3: it also makes me think. When you close your eyes sometimes, 516 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 3: do you just immediately have a shocker, like poking you 517 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 3: in the side, you know, a flash memory. I'll have 518 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 3: a flash memory of growing up in something happening. I 519 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 3: just can't imagine what your flash memories do. 520 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: But no, I mean yeah, And it used to be 521 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: a lot more frequent with diagnosis of PTSD, and I 522 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: went through a lot of therapy for that. But every 523 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: now and then I'll slip back into that state. There 524 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: will be something that will kick something off in my brain. 525 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: I'm past nightmares at this point in my life, so 526 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: I fortunately, by the grace of God, I don't have 527 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,239 Speaker 1: to endure that anymore. I had really bad ones. But 528 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: every now and then you'll come across a case that 529 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: acts as a triggering mechanism because you go back and 530 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: recall things. But yeah, yeah, and but look, you know, 531 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: and as morbid as this is, and you know, everything's 532 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: on the table here. I got to reveal this, and 533 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, I actually enjoyed the recovery of skeletal remains. 534 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: I found it. It was actually kind of peaceful because 535 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: you're you're focused on. If you doing a skeletal recovery, 536 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: it's labor intensive work. I didn't have to do anything 537 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: else when I was out there. Anything any other cases 538 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: I might catch or that might come my way, it's 539 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,239 Speaker 1: something that would be back burner, somebody else would handle it. 540 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: I'm trying to assist a forensic anthropologist at the scene 541 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: for the recovery, and it was always fascinating to me. 542 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know. To me, it was kind 543 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: of like putting a gigantic puzzle together, and so it 544 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: would occupy my mind. And you never know when you're 545 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: coming over an area what's going to be revealed. And 546 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: in a case like this, where you know pretty quickly, 547 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: particularly if you have the skull, you can get an 548 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: idea many times about the age of the individual. You 549 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: can because a couple of things that we look for 550 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: we do aging, or forensic anthropologists do aging on skulls. 551 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: You know what brackets, and it's generally very broadly bracketed. 552 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: You do racing, which is is you determine what race 553 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: an individual is from their point of origin, and forensic 554 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: anthropologists have a way to just eyeball remains and can 555 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: ballpark it. Sometimes they're wrong. You can look for trauma 556 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: assessment and an interesting other thing you can look for stature, 557 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: which is kind of fascinating. And when we know that 558 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: our young lady was just over five feet tall, and 559 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: Dave she only weighed a hundred pounds, so there's you know, 560 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: she's very petite, you know, one hundred pounds. I don't know. 561 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: I think maybe I weighed one hundred pounds when I 562 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: was five. I don't know. I'm a big guy. Maybe 563 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: that's the case. But when you think about she's very 564 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: diminutive and would be easily handled by somebody, maybe an 565 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: individual in a truck that picked her up. But why, 566 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: what would cause what would bring about her from that 567 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: jail in Gwinnett County one hundred miles away to the 568 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: point where they've crossed the state line. I got to 569 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: tell you, man, one of the things that pops to 570 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: mind with me. One of the things that comes up 571 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: first is something we've already mentioned. Fentanyl, Yeah, you know, 572 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 1: and the fact that she's found in a rural area. 573 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: If she's in a rural area, either somebody either somebody 574 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: because their purpose they're going up seventy five seventy five 575 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: winds up in one spot, all right, winds up in Chattanooga. 576 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 1: What if? What if she's in the vehicle and fentanyl 577 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: is involved. She's been out of jail, now, she had 578 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: gone through detox. Did you know this? This is kind 579 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: of sinister. But once you detox and you attempt to 580 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: do the same amount of drugs that you've done prior 581 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: to detoxing, it's lethal. Man. So it would only take 582 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: a very small amount. I'm not saying that's what happened. 583 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: The investigators have to think about that. 584 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 3: I would think, now, Joe, we've got bones skeletonized. That's 585 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 3: what word skeletonized remains. Now does that mean that there 586 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 3: is no flesh on the bones or is this just 587 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,959 Speaker 3: a general term that is used to explain to the 588 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 3: public that they did recover somebody but not identifiable. 589 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: I think that is a very insightful question, because in 590 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: our field, we will use the term completely skeletonized and 591 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: partially skeletonized, or we will say, here's the other qualifier. 592 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: We'll say we have an intact remain, and intact means 593 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: that it doesn't mean that the body hasn't decomposed, all right, 594 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: that's not what's being in plot here. But what it's 595 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: saying is that there are no visible bony structures. Like 596 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: when you eyeball a body, you don't have like, you know, 597 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: the one of the most prominent areas that you look 598 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: at is like the forehead, for instance, has any of 599 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: that skin the integrity that skin been compromised to the 600 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: point and it kind of peels back like this, Particularly 601 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: as the skin becomes dried, dried out or desiccated, you'll 602 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: see little tears in the skin. You'll have bone that 603 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: is visible, maybe the external table of the skull. All 604 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: they're saying is skeletal remains, and they're in a rural area, 605 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: so I have to take them on face value. I 606 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: would think that there would have to be something left. 607 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: And here's here's one other thing. I'd want to know 608 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: what the status of clothing is. That's a big If 609 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: you just have skeletal remain, Okay, that's a big difference 610 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: then actually finding skeletal remains still contained in clothing, because 611 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 1: that goes to anti mortem or prior death activity. Were 612 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: they naked and I'm saying that in general, I'm asking 613 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: that question, or did somebody strip the clothes off of 614 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,959 Speaker 1: the body just after they died, because you know, being 615 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: absent of clothing applause a lot of things. Man, It 616 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: implies that maybe they were deprived and set loose into wilderness. 617 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: It also implies that if they're without clothing, that maybe 618 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,760 Speaker 1: there was evidence on the clothing and also applause something 619 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: more sinister too, and that's sexual activity. 620 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 2: Right. 621 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: Was this was this a rape homicide? And I think 622 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: that's one of the things they're thinking about, Dave, What. 623 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 3: About without tool marks on the actual bones? Is there 624 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 3: a way to determine that this body was placed in 625 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 3: this rural area? Again, we know we know she left 626 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,320 Speaker 3: the Gwinnett County Courthouse in August. On August twenty first, 627 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 3: we know that they saw her, they being the police, 628 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 3: they have proof she was in Cobb County, Georgia. And 629 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 3: then we find her skeletonized remains one hundred miles from there, 630 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 3: in a rural area outside Chattanooga. And assuming she died well, no, 631 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 3: I can't even assume that I know. I don't know 632 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 3: where she died. I don't know how she died on 633 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 3: the side. We don't know anything. And we don't know 634 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 3: if her body we don't know if her remains were 635 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 3: found laid out in bones just thrown out of a car, 636 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 3: or if she had been taken apart, manually deconstructed and 637 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 3: bones piled there. 638 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,399 Speaker 2: Right, we don't know. 639 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 1: That's key, and you know you brought up that's one 640 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 1: of the questions that's always asked when you have skeletal remains, 641 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: what's the status of it? And this is how we're 642 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: going to break it down if because you know, bones 643 00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: will still have Sometimes bones skelt remains will still remain articulated, 644 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: which means intact the soft tissue has come off, but 645 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: yet the bones are still attached together by various attachments 646 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: that structurally, Now, if you've got a set of skeletal remains, 647 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: dave where the body has where the remains are stacked, 648 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: Like you were saying, boy, that's that's a gruesome thought, 649 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: because that gives you an indication that the body had 650 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: been rendered down in some manner and then the bones 651 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: stacked and that's almost a ritualized thing, right, don't I 652 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: don't think we have that going on here. 653 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,839 Speaker 3: They would have said it, they would have said something, Yeah, 654 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:46,399 Speaker 3: they I. 655 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: Think that they would have. And here's one other thing 656 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: that I think that is that they're working with here, Dave, 657 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: because if it can be shown that this is a 658 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: kidnapping or that this may have happened, guess who they've 659 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: involved at this point in time. Who the perpetrator is 660 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: involved in this point in time, because they've left Georgia, 661 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: they've crossed state lines at this point in time. Yeah, 662 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: the FBI is going to be up to their eyeballs 663 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: in this case. So they're going to bring in all 664 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: of the resources that they have there. But one of 665 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 1: the greatest resources for investigation when it comes to Skeltor 666 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: Remains is, I don't know, just over one hundred miles 667 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: to the east of Chattanooga, Integrate said of Tennessee, and 668 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: that's ut Body Farm. So that's the one thing about 669 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,359 Speaker 1: about Tennessee when it comes from to doctor Bass, who 670 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: found founded the body Farm, he always made himself available 671 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: to law enforcement. I would not have wanted to be 672 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,240 Speaker 1: one of his students because he's very difficult, very difficult 673 00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: professor to have. However, he always made time for law enforcement, 674 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 1: and that I think that's been passed on through the lineage. 675 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 2: There. 676 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: They have that organization at their disposal. Right now, all 677 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: we know is that we have no cause of death. 678 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: This young woman walks out of a courthouse, and there 679 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 1: are very few electronic breadcrumbs to give us an idea 680 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 1: of movement other than that ping, that last ping that 681 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:37,799 Speaker 1: they have of her or her phone traveling northbound on 682 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: I seventy five toward Hamilton County, Tennessee. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, 683 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,280 Speaker 1: and this is Body Backs