WEBVTT - AI Gender Skills Gap, Bitcoin and Energy 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:07.000 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:11.280 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:13.800 Tim Stenoveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.439 Well, it seems like everybody is talking about AI, but 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:18.800 the question is is everybody using AI? We talked a 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.720 little bit about this with Vinnie Catalano. Yeah, he said 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:23.760 he's like going all in on us. 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.480 He did, Yeah, which is kind of funny. 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:29.720 It turns out my takeaway from that conversation is I'm 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:31.080 no Einstein. 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:32.720 But neither are you. 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:35.920 No Exactly, Well, it turns out there are some stark 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.400 differences when it comes to who is engaging with the tech, 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:40.559 and it actually falls along gender lines. Check out this 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:44.920 research Carol Harvard Business School Associate Professor Rembrandt Koning found 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.360 that women are using new AI tools at a lower 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.879 rate than men, about twenty five percent, according to the 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:52.960 research cited in a story last month. In a post 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.680 from Harvard Business School, curious what Jenny Troutman thinks about this. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.000 She's director of Training and Certification at Amazon Web Services. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.680 Of course we refer to it as AWS. She joins 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.959 us from Houston, Texas. Jenny, I know you watch the 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:08.200 way that this falls along gender lines really closely. In 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.679 your position at aws Why do you think the adoption 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.320 among women is so much less than men? 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:16.600 Right? 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.920 Well, yeah, so it's interesting. In technology in general, women 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.480 only make up about thirty percent of the workforce, but 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:25.960 it is more stark in AI, with I'm only comprising 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.360 about twenty two percent. We did do a study though, 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.040 that shows that women are interested in learning about generative AI. 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:33.840 In fact, in the. 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.200 Study, it showed three out of four women are interested 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.039 in learning how to apply generative AI at work, and 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.399 eighty percent actually want to apply for jobs involving generative AI. 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.000 So while I think we're seeing a gap right now 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.760 in the workforce, we're not seeing a gap in interest. 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.720 And I think the issue is confidence in skills, and 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.040 that's really why I'm here. What I'm focused on is 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:00.880 how do we at AWLS help the global workforce and 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:05.160 women across the globe get confidence working with AI and 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:06.600 generative AI technologies. 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.320 Well, you know, this is something I'm glad we're talking. 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.239 We actually had an earlier conversation about AI and the workforce. 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:14.440 And you know, when anybody says, you know, we're hiring 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.840 a lot of AI related jobs and it's AI related skills, 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.600 and like, what's an AI related skill? Because to be 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:22.720 quite honest with you, Jenny, you know, Tim and I 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.560 play around certainly with like chatchipt and things, and part 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.040 of it is like our job. How do you ask 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.280 the right questions right and drill down those questions. I mean, 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.800 I know that's just basic level, but I mean, what 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.160 what do you see as AI skills? Be it for 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:37.359 men or for women? 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:41.160 Yeah, so that is a very big question. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:45.280 Sorry, when we talk about when we talk about AI skills, 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:47.600 there are kind of a breadth of them that we're 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:48.239 talking about. 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:49.480 To your point, we're. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.720 Talking about people who are just using the technology, which 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:56.080 the foundational skills really are what we need. So things 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.440 like are to the possible? What is generative AI? And 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:01.800 what can you do with it? Because one of the 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:05.800 one of the biggest roadblocks to getting started is really 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.520 understanding how you can use it and thinking differently about 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.680 what you do. So I'm you know, understanding use cases, 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:13.519 places to get started, where to play with it. And 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.480 then the second is exactly what you just said, which 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.160 is what we call prompt engineering how to write good prompts, 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.880 And that's relevant for anyone looking to use the technology, 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:27.200 no matter their role technical non technical alike, if you 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:28.960 don't write a good prompt, you don't get a good 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.840 output from the from the technology, and so that is 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.120 a skill in and of itself. In fact, we offer 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.680 free training online on a to a skill builder. We 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:38.320 can go in and take a course on how to 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:38.640 do that. 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:39.560 Isn't that funny that? 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.360 Like, wait, can we take that course? 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.160 Yes? You can. It's for free. You can go online 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:46.440 and find it. Today. 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.520 Carol's like so excited about learning how to do prompts 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.040 so she can get away from her cohed. 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:52.400 We want to say, no, I don't want to get 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.560 away from you. But I mean everybody has said that 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:56.800 learning how to use it is like learning how to 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:58.240 prompt and ask correct. 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.160 Well, that's why the turn, that's why engineers, that's like 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.920 why it's such an important skill. I think one cool 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.600 thing about this, though, Jenny, is you don't even need 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.640 to be like anyone. Anyone can I've never taken a 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:11.680 course on prompt engineering. I'm not going to pretend that 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.720 I know what I'm doing. But it's such a forgiving 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.640 product where if you don't get the answer you're looking for, 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:21.359 then you change the way you ask the question or 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:23.920 you refine it, and you ultimately get there. 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:25.520 Now it's not like a co host who says that 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:26.360 was a stupid question. 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.960 Never yet, well, I bet I would do that by 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:31.720 the way, it probably would. 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:36.320 I would say yes, and yes, that is very true. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:38.520 And in fact, a big part of using generative AI 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.640 is validating the What you got is what you were 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.040 looking for. The problem comes in if you weren't exactly 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.760 sure what the output should be. So, for example, if 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.960 you're using the tool beyond writing a document for you, 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:54.200 but maybe to do some data analysis and you ask comparison, 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.680 if you don't actually do the right prompt, the results 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.320 of the data analysis you get might not be correct, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:00.800 and unless you a deep. 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.640 Validation, you might not know that. So that's where it 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:04.440 becomes important. 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.920 But part of learning the technology and getting good at 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.960 prompt engineering is to your point, practicing it, doing it 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.320 over and over seeing what kind of results you get, 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:14.000 and constantly refining. 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:18.640 I'm looking at your background. I didn't know you were 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.560 a pilot. That's really pretty cool stuff Like no, I 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:23.320 just you know, I think about how the world has 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.360 evolved and continues to evolve. How are you thinking about 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.680 and kind of all that you've done in your world, 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.680 and like, as we it just feels like we're just 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.200 scratching the service in terms of what generative AI and 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.120 LMS can do for our world. And I know that 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.240 there are a lot of concerns about it going off 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.240 in the wrong direction, and that's all. 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:43.640 You know. 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.120 We could spend hours on that, but I'm just curious 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:49.560 about from your vantage point, what you've done professionally, like 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:51.400 how you are looking at this moment in time. 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.560 So we are actually in the same place everyone else is, 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.320 which is trying to figure out how we do our 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.760 own jobs differently and then using that to then help 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.400 educate people on how to think differently for other roles. 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.800 I would agree we're at the very early stages. And 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:12.000 that's why the lack of skills in the industry around 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.919 AI are so prevalent, because, like I mentioned, it's not 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.160 only the foundational skills the other areas. We need deep 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.440 technical experts who can build good models, who can build 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.080 good tooling on top of the models, and all of 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.360 that is a work in progress right now. The tooling 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.640 is getting better day by day, but as the tooling 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:32.640 gets better, we need to get better and better at 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.040 how we use it. So I would say we're still 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.560 at the very beginning of figuring out how much this 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:40.719 is going to change the way we work. And I 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.080 take it back to thinking about the Internet. I am 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.200 old enough to remember when the Internet became big and 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.080 we had no idea how much it was going to 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.320 change the way our day to day lives and worked, 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:55.400 and how we looked for things, how we found things, 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.440 how we thought about getting from place to place. We're 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.400 in that same same place. It's AI and generative AI 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.440 is the one thing I can guarantee you is the 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:06.280 way we do things ten years from now will be 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:07.720 very different from the way we. 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:08.200 Do them now. 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:12.520 Yeah, but it's hard to predict exactly how quickly things 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.440 will change or how much they will change. 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.600 I'm with you. I remember doing a premer on what 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.280 is the Internet like early on in my career. 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:20.120 What did you find out? 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:20.480 The answer? 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:24.120 But it wasn't around. 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:24.720 It wasn't around. 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:26.280 No, I want to go back to you being a 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.800 commercial or having a commercial pilot license, Like when you say, 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.600 in ten years from now that you know generative AI 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:35.440 and what we were talking about today is going to 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.320 dramatically change our world, Like do you see AI ultimately 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.960 handling you know, systems like air traffic control? Like how 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.520 far does it go? Or I know it's hard, it's 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:48.880 like who knows where it goes? But I mean, how 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.280 do you think about it? Like on what scale? 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:52.320 Yeah? 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.200 The way we think about it is anything that can 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:59.560 be automated will be. So anything that you can write 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.200 down a word for, if it's not already automated, it 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:07.920 will be. And the beauty of that is the things 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.000 that we can't automate, like our creative thinking, like taking 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.800 that and making connections with other things innovating. That's the 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:18.480 sort of thing that doesn't automate. And so where I 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.520 think it will go is we will all have AI 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:26.640 assistance that will be doing kind of that automated repetitive 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:31.720 work for us. We will be guiding those agents or 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:36.760 those assistants, and we will we will be innovating so 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.760 much faster than we can even imagine because we've never 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:44.200 had a machine in the back end doing all of 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:45.720 the grunt work for us. 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:47.040 That's a down stall. 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:49.880 I think Jennie Diamond, I'm quoting him again, but I 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.680 believe he said our kids are going to live to 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.600 one hundred not have cancer as a result of these 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.760 tools and be working three and a half days a week. 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:00.679 Is that true? 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:03.800 Your guess is as good as mine. 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:06.000 It sounds like a pretty great world. 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.720 Well, I look back before cloud and before the Internet, 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:14.240 and we didn't work less than Yeah, so it's hard 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:15.240 for me to imagine. 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.200 I think some people would say we work more because 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.560 we always have these computer things attached to our hands 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:20.040 always on. 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.720 Might say that, and it's hard for me to imagine, 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.480 just because of human nature, that we will do less 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:28.080 than we did. 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:28.480 In the past. 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.440 But but I do think that we will be able 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.600 to do a whole lot more, a whole lot faster. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:35.920 And that's that's the part that's hard to imagine. I 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.199 have a I have a daughter who's in high school 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.880 and has wanted to be a doctor her whole life. 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.600 And that's an area where you know, it's already using robotics, 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.480 and you can imagine a lot will change it. So 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.960 I question, you know, what is the what is the 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:51.720 place to be there? But there are always going to 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.600 be people needing to guide the machines. 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.679 I think, and yeah, exactly, And I think, I mean, 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.360 I think radiology is one profession. That's certainly right for 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.800 disruption when it comes to AI, but maybe dermatology not 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:03.320 so much. 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.880 Fair Yeah, I think where you have to have kind 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:12.080 of the human intervention, there will always be some level 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.280 of human intervention needed. And the question is how much 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:17.640 better can we be? How much less time do we 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.040 need to spend in a doctor's office because they're able 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:25.080 to solve problems automatically for us? And then how much 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.679 will they be able to accelerate the time, you know, 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.520 spend more time on innovating the solutions for us? 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:32.960 Yeah, I know. 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.800 And people talk about drug discovery right, being able to 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.080 kind of go through a lot of information and figure 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:38.559 out things. 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:40.480 What hey, Jenny, before we let you go, since you 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.480 are in aviation, Also, do you think we'll in our 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:48.200 lifetimes we'll see commercial aircraft with just one pilot rather 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:48.600 than two. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.360 You know, I can't predict the future, but I don't know. 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.600 Why not, whereas like maybe on the ground they're doing 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.920 some of the controlling or even. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:04.200 Already have so much unmanned in the military, unmanned spacecraft 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.720 or sorry, aircraft spacecraft too, But I don't know why 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.880 we would continue to need as much on the plane 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.680 with the exception of the backup factor. Something happens to 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.800 one pilot, you definitely don't want to have nobody. 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:22.200 Yeah, yeah, that's true. Or they can control it on 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:22.920 the ground, who knows. 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.160 I guess I don't know, like a remote yeah, like 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.240 a like a drone or something, right, exactly, exactly. 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.120 Listen, this was what I saw my car drive for me, 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:33.360 as though, to be fair, I'm. 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:33.760 Not ready for that. 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:34.640 I'm ready. 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:36.400 Oh my gosh, you got to get in one of 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:37.160 these waymouth things. 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.400 They're amazing. It was awesome. 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:39.839 Jenny. 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:40.120 Thanks. 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.680 Jenny Troutman, director of Training and Certification at AWS, Amazon 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.720 Web Services, joining us on this Monday from Houston, Texas. 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:47.079 Well. 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.080 The Trump family is set to launch a bitcoin mining 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.480 focused venture with HUT eight. It's the latest expansion of 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.480 the US President's ties to the cryptocurrency sector. HUT eight 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.320 is launching the American Bitcoin Corp. As a major already 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:04.120 owned a subsidiary focus exclusively on bitcoin mining and quote 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.360 strategic bitcoin reserve development this company. The company said this 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:09.680 in a statement today. For more, let's go to Fred 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.240 Tealey's chairman and CEO of the four billion dollar market 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:18.360 cap bitcoin minor Mara holdings. He joins us from Miami today. Fred, 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.640 good to have you back with us. I want to 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.880 talk the market, bitcoin mining, the health of the industry 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:25.679 as you see at big changes. But first I want 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.400 to get your reaction to this news that the Trump 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.880 family is teaming up with hot eight. What do you 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:32.319 make of it? 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.679 Oh, I think obviously the president and his family are 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.319 very positively inclined to bitcoin. So bitcoin mining is a 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.880 key part of anybody's crypto strategy if you're looking at 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.839 the industry overall. So I think that the fact that 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:53.600 they're interested is a good sign. Obviously, I think there 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:55.640 could have been a better choice for partner for them, 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:57.439 but that's just me being biased. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.959 I understand. But do you think that there's a concern 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.560 that he's a little too close in the sense of, well, 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:11.320 if his firm is partnering up and picking partners, then 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:13.000 he can pick winners and losers. 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.080 I'm listening. I'm a big believer in free competition and 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:24.319 open competition in the marketplaces, and you know, my expectation 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.800 is that you know, there won't be any preferences played 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.120 in this marketplace. You know, the great thing about bitcoin 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:36.400 mining is it's really a business where we all compete 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.520 with our compute and our hash rate, and I think that, 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:45.000 you know, we'll just have to see if this company 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.880 has given preferential treatment. Then I think I'm sure the 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.840 media industry will cover that and in its a typical 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.240 way and bring that to light, and that point it'll 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:55.720 be up to the public to kind of deal with it. 0:13:55.760 --> 0:14:00.400 And do you think the president should be in this business? 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.560 Yeah, I'm not going to pine on that. I think 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:13.040 the what you know, members of government do and don't do. 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.080 I think it is up for the government to police 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.760 and make determinations on that. You know, there's so many 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.800 people who have been in very high offices that have 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:31.200 had financial dealings big businesses, and even though the rules 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.239 call for you to kind of step away from those businesses, 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.000 are they really stepping away? I mean, I think you 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.240 can go back over history and see that this wouldn't 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.120 be the first time that, you know, members of high 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:47.080 office have fingers in businesses and influenced businesses. 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:48.960 So let's go bigger picture here and just talk a 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:53.240 little bit about how you view the administration with regard 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:54.120 to crypto. 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:55.760 If we were to. 0:14:55.760 --> 0:15:00.320 Speak a few months ago, maybe we'd see the eyes 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.800 in the price of bitcoin and talk about the optimism 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:08.760 that the industry had for a Trump administration. Are you 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.720 seeing that promise fulfilled at this point? 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.440 Absolutely? You know, I spend a lot of time in 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.480 Washington these days. I was at the White House Crypto 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.680 Summit as the only bitcoin minor representing the industry. I 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:28.480 think as we look at the things President Trump laid 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.440 out in his kind of campaign promises at the Bitcoin 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:39.000 Nashville conference, you know, obviously changes at the sec Bitcoin 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.800 Strategic Reserve. You know, more bitcoin mining should be done 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.840 in the US. You know, a lot of those things 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.080 have come to pass. I think we're going to see 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.840 market Structure Bill be introduced here shortly. We're going to 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:56.920 start seeing further process progress on the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:02.520 We'll see a variety of other things around stable coin 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.600 legislation as well. So I think you're going to see 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:09.120 a lot of progress to make up for the years 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.640 during the Biden administration when nothing happened in the industry 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.760 was attacked. So you've got to think about it. We're 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.480 not even one hundred days into his administration at this point, right, 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.120 So no, that's fair. A lot has already happened. 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.120 Hey, Fred broad Now just remind our world. I mean, 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.360 you're publicly held, you're almost a four billion dollar market 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.800 cap company. Remind our world exactly what your business is. 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:35.400 So we're in the business of transforming energy into digital gold. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.280 We consider ourselves really a digital energy company. So we 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:43.680 take energy which otherwise isn't necessarily being used. So if 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.000 you think about a lot of renewable energy assets like 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:50.520 wind farms, a lot of the time that energy can't 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:53.360 be sold into the marketplace because either there is too 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.800 much supply and so the market is flooded, or there's 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:01.360 not enough transmission capacity and it's called congestion. And you know, 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.600 the renewable energy boom that happened in this country over 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:10.640 the past decade has created an oversupply in certain geographies. 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.600 And what happens is that supply can't get to market 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.280 and so it sits idle. So we can go in 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.960 and take that excess energy and move demand to where 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:25.960 supply is. Energy consumption is not a constant flat amount 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.600 all day long, so the energy companies can just plan 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.359 to have a flat amount of energy. It varies all 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.399 day long. From the morning it goes up and then 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.160 it goes bottoms out midday, and then it peaks around 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.760 nine o'clock at night and then drops again. And while 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:43.000 you can plan for those flows, what you can't plan 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.879 for is the weather because that affects solar farms, it 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.400 affects wind farms, and that intermittent type of energy generation 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.640 is very challenging to plan for. And so the only 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:59.040 energy that really is consistent and constant is nuclear, coal, 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:03.960 natural gas. But all of the renewable energy forms really 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.920 are what's called intermittent, and so our industry supplies what's 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:12.359 called flexible load. And Duke University just put out a 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.080 study a few weeks ago where basically, the whole AI 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:18.040 industry in this country needs about forty eight gigawatts of 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.399 power over the next few years, and yet our grid 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:26.719 has seventy three gigawatts, nearly double what the AI industry needs. 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.359 But it's only available if the load is flexible. And 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.560 we're flexible because we can shut our operations down at 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:37.239 a moment's notice when the grid needs the energy. The 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.160 AI industry has a harder time doing that. So we're 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.399 a kind of a unique animal in that, but we 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.840 play a very vital role in balancing the grid. 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.600 So do you have a good do you feel like 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:49.679 tell us about your vantage point when it comes to 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.520 data centers and AI demand, because I do think there 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.199 has been a bit of a reset this year. So 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.639 what are you seeing? What can you tell us with 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:02.480 clarity about that demand? And certainly it's you know, draw 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:06.040 down on energy. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:10.480 So we've spoken number of times in our earnings calls 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:14.680 and interviews about the fact that we believe that this 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:19.119 first phase of the AI data center build out is 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:22.000 very similar to the pattern that occurred at the buildout 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.560 of the original Internet. Go back to ninety the period 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.520 nineteen ninety five to two thousand and two. What happened 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.680 we were building data centers. It was like every company 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:32.399 has to be an Internet company and you have to 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.520 have a dot com after your name, and a lot 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.760 of capital flowed into these businesses, and what ended up 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.960 happening was that the cost initially to build websites was 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.760 millions of dollars. You had to have unique machines by 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.560 Sun Microsystems, You had to write all the code yourself, 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.840 and then very quickly tools came out, Things came out 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.679 that lowered the cost dramatically and lowered the amount of 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.720 infrastructure you had to have to do this, and so 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.560 all this infrastructure that got built was superfluous for a while. 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:07.280