1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's me Josh and for this week's s 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Y s K Select, I've chosen this episode on the 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: history of the Kent State Massacre, somewhat unknown, surprisingly and 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: definitely largely misunderstood moment in American history and kind of 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: a bummer, so prepare, but it's a good one. Enjoy, Enjoy. 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: there's Jerry. And it's snowing outside, which means it's Stuff 10 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: You Should Know Snow Edition. Snow Edition. Yeah, I know 11 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: when we're like, we gotta record and get out of 12 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: here because this is Atlanta and snow kills us. I 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: just mainly don't want to be locked away from the snow. 14 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: I want to be able to like look out the 15 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,639 Speaker 1: window and see it. I can now, but not as 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: well as I'd like to me. It's just a traffic thing. 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: Like people are probably leaving work right now. People have 18 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: already left the office here. Well, maybe everyone will be 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: gone by the time I get out there. Okay, you'll 20 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: just be the lone guy trudging through the snow. That's right, 21 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: like Vigo Mortenson in the road. Yes, although he was 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: not alone and there wasn't any snow. It was just 23 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: nuclear ash. Although there was snow because Charlie's there and 24 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: kills herself by going out into the snow. But that's 25 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: before everything really takes a downward. Spoiler alert retroactive spoiler alert, 26 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: Chuck Yep, are you familiar with Kent State? Yeah? Man, 27 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: I've been singing that Neil Young song all day. How 28 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: can you not? You cannot by having never heard it? 29 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: Like me, shut up? You know that song? Never heard it? 30 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: I've never listened to Neil Young. You've never heard the 31 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: song Ohio? No? I know the Pretender song, but I 32 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: don't think that's about Kent State. I'm shocked, Okay, I 33 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: mean you don't have and Young without Like, how's it 34 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: go humed for him? No, I'm not gonna Maybe I 35 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: have heard it ten Soldiers and Nixon Okay, Yeah, yeah, 36 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: I've heard it. I didn't know that was about Ohio 37 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: four Dead in Ohio yeah, okay. And I had no idea, 38 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 1: all right. I didn't know what that song was about. 39 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, Neil young really Yeah, oh man, 40 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: get ready to hear it. I'm sure alright, I'm used 41 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: to it by now, your bulletproof. Uh. Well, so you're 42 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: familiar with the Kent State shootings May four, Um, four 43 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: students were killed. I believe another eleven were injured, Yeah, 44 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: including one was paralyzed, like some pretty severe injuries. And uh, 45 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: this is a big deal. That would be a big 46 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: deal in and of itself if it was just some 47 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: sort of campus shooting or something like that, Like it 48 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: would be a very big deal these days. But what 49 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: made the Kent State shootings, for those of you who 50 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: aren't familiar with them, such an enormous deal was that 51 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: the shootings were carried out by National guardsmen. They were 52 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: Americans firing on Americans. Um, Americans on one side of 53 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: the equation firing on protesters on the other side. Uh. 54 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: And it was one of the darkest points in American history, 55 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: modern or otherwise. Yeah, it was. I think what's so 56 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: upsetting is it was random. It wasn't you know that 57 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: guy's coming at me with a bottle or a brick, 58 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: shoot him. It was random shooting into a crowd, Right, 59 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: That's the kind of thing that would happen in countries 60 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: under like dictatorships, not here in America. But it did 61 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: happen here in America, and not just at Kent State. 62 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: There was another similar incident just ten days later, um, 63 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: that we'll talk about as well. It gets overlooked, but yeah, 64 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: it was a very dark moment in American history, and 65 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: it came out of the the tensions, um over the 66 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: Vietnam War initially, but I think it was more than that. 67 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: It was also we should say that's the um, kind 68 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: of obvious thing that led to it, but also there 69 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: was a real tension also between the establishment and the 70 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: anti establishment. Yeah, and um, the people in control and 71 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: the people who weren't in control, students, elders, there's just 72 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: a lot of tension between two sides, and the dividing line, 73 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: the obvious dividing line, was the Vietnam War. Yeah, and UM, 74 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: I think if you are not of that generation, you 75 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: may not know the full story. Um. You might know 76 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: that four people were shot in a protest, and that's 77 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: about it. Maybe even if you're from that generation, you 78 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: may not know the full story. But we're about to 79 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: tell you. Okay, let's take it back a little further 80 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: than all right, Vietnam country which had when it's independence 81 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: from France and the fifties. Have you ever seen We 82 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: Were Soldiers. Yes, it's almost like a snuff film. It's 83 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: one of the most graphically violent movies I've ever seen 84 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: in my life. But it's about that transition from France 85 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: leaving Vietnam and America coming in. Yeah, go ahead. Well 86 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: it's just initially serving as advisors and then becoming embroiled 87 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: in the war. I forgot all about that movie, yeah, 88 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: you know, and Apocalypse Now there are some deleted scenes 89 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: of the meeting up with a French family in Vietnam 90 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: and like having dinner. Really yeah, and I remember when 91 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: I heard about that, I was like, what why were 92 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: they French? And then I did a little more homework 93 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,119 Speaker 1: on it. Oh oh yeah, if you eat Vietnamese food, 94 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: like it's very clearly like, yeah, French influenced, well, all 95 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: most food is. But yeah sure, um so anyway, uh, 96 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: in the fifties they split between communists North and non 97 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: communist South. Vietnam and America didn't want communism spreading throughout Asia. 98 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: We had a policy of containment. Yeah, and so Richard Nixon, 99 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: um when he won the sixty eight election. Um. Part 100 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: of his promise was something called Vietnamization. It's kind of 101 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: an awkward word, and that meant to transfer the combat 102 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: duties from our soldiers to the South Vietnamese. That sounds familiar, 103 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: isn't it? It does? But um, what what happened was 104 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: at some point he said, you know what in nineteen 105 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: seventy in April, he said, I want to send our 106 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: soldiers in the Cambodia. And that caused sort of a 107 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: firestorm because it was a bit of a reversal of 108 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: what he said he was gonna do, and it, you know, 109 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: really embroiled us in the kind of the middle of things. Well, yeah, 110 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: he he escalated the war in Vietnam, which was already 111 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: a very um contentious issue, and that it was a war, 112 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: but also as a war that Congress never openly declared war. 113 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: So that's why, historically speaking, it's referred to as the 114 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: Vietnam conflict. Um. And so Nixon gets elected partially because 115 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: he's saying, I'm gonna get our boys out of there. Yeah, 116 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: we're not gonna like let the communists when we're gonna 117 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: prop up the Vietnamese, but um, we're gonna get out 118 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: of there. Instead, he escalates things by invading Cambodia, where 119 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: the Vietcong we're stationed, and that led to immediate protests. 120 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: That was April thirtieth, nineteen seventy, that he announced that 121 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: we had invaded Cambodia, and the next day is when 122 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: the first protest takes place at Kent State. Yeah, and 123 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: Kent the The article points out that it was not 124 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: the most likely place because it was a little more 125 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: blue collar than like say, Ohio State nearby, the Ohio 126 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: State University and um man, I'm sorry that is so stupid. 127 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: Sorry os U alums and fans and students, but it 128 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: is stupid, and everyone outside of Ohio State thinks it's stupid. 129 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: They take a lot of pride in that. The I know, 130 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: which I think just kind of fans the flames of 131 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: um derision. Yeah, you know, I can just start saying 132 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: the University of Georgia. That makes a little more sense, 133 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: does it. Yeah, what's the difference the Ohio State University 134 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: the University of Georgia. It's just it was the University 135 00:07:58,160 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: of Ohio State that would make more sense. Yeah, a 136 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: litt more to my ear, I got you my ear right, 137 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: there you see it. That's very nice, thank you. Um. 138 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: At any rate, uh, I can't say it was a 139 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: little more blue collar and you wouldn't think there would 140 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: be like protesting, but there was protesting at schools all 141 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: over the country. There were and you can read between 142 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: the lines here. Kent State had a lower hippie population 143 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: than Ohio State. Can we just come up right out 144 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: and say it, right, But there were protests there. Um, 145 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: there's a protest on May one, and it was a 146 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: standard uh war protests three days before the shootings, and 147 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: it's kind of when things got kicked off, right, But 148 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: these kids were still pretty good. They were at school 149 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: holding a protest in the commons, I believe, um, which 150 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: was the a k a. The quad or like the 151 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: big grassy area between in the middle of campus. Um. 152 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: And they said, you know what, this went pretty well. 153 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: Let's take the weekend off and we'll meet back here 154 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: one day and have another anti war protest because we're 155 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: really steamed about this. And everyone said, okay, let's do that, 156 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: and for tonight, let's go out and hit the bars 157 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: and it. Yeah, this is what they did. The first one. 158 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: They buried the constitution as a symbolic gesture. And the 159 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: second one they got drunk, right, not at the protest 160 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: but later that night. Right, so that Friday protests is 161 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: when they buried the constitution. Yes, this is like a 162 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: real protest, not just walking around. There's like stuff going 163 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: on and like you know, there's symbolic acts. It was 164 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: a real protest. Yeah. And if you combine alcohol and protesting, 165 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: things might get a little rowdy. So bonfires broke out, 166 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: they start throwing bottles at police cars, breaking windows. It's 167 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: more the little rowdy. I mean, that's pretty that's a riot. 168 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: When you said like bomb fires in the streets and 169 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: like throw bottles at at police cars, that you have 170 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: just basically said we've drawn a line in the sand. 171 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: Where are you gonna do, cops? That is one way 172 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: to look at it, for sure. Uh. The mayor, Leroy 173 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: Satram said, this is an emergency situation people. I need 174 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: to call the governor James Rhodes. We need some help. 175 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to close the bar, which you know isn't 176 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: gonna make anyone very happy. No, And it had an 177 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: exacerbating effect apparently because that meant all the people who 178 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,599 Speaker 1: weren't riding in the streets who were busy drinking in 179 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: the bars were now suddenly in the streets too and 180 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: joined the protests and the a k A. The riots, right, Uh, 181 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: that's right. And the police were called in. They used 182 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: tear gas and said go back to your dorm rooms, 183 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: basically get back on campus. And that was Friday. Now 184 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: we move on to Saturday. Yeah, and the Mayor's is 185 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: obviously a little jumpy. He's hearing rumors circulating that there's 186 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: gonna be another the scene from the night before is 187 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: going to happen all over again on Saturday. So he 188 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: calls the governor of Ohio and UM, here enters the 189 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: person who, in my opinion, is single handedly responsible for 190 00:10:51,679 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: what happened at Kent State. So the National Guard arrives. Um, 191 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: there were about a thousand protesters. Um that actually burned 192 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: down an r OTC building on campus, which is pretty 193 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: bold move. And UM, they didn't find out who did 194 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: that exactly, but they did cut fire hoses so they 195 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: couldn't put out the fire and basically burned it to 196 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: the ground. Yeah, the protesters set it on fire and 197 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: then cut the fire hoses like they wanted that building burned. 198 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: And apparently, UM, that's when the National Guard shows up 199 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: a couple like an hour or so later, right, Yeah, 200 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: and they, you know, broke everything up obviously. And then 201 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: Uh comes Sunday. You've got about a thousand National guardsman 202 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: and you've got Governor Rhodes arriving, uh and holding a 203 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: press conference and kind of flaming the fire again by 204 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: calling the protesters the worst type of people that we 205 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: harbor in America. Yeah, he compared to the brown Shirts, 206 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: Mussolini's brown Shirts, UM, the communists, UM, pretty much anybody 207 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: he could think of that was that would be disparaging. 208 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: That's who publicly at this press conference compared him to UM. 209 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: And you mentioned that the on Sunday morning, the UM 210 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: National Guard was on campus kind of keeping order and everything. 211 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: But apparently like the relations between the guardsmen and the 212 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: students were pretty amicable, Like people were chatting friendly, Like 213 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: there was no tension. It was just kind of like, hey, 214 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: I'm nineteen, Hey i'm nineteen, I'm a student at Kent State, 215 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: I'm in the National Guard. Let's hang out. And it 216 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 1: wasn't until the governor showed up and held this press 217 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: conference that things took a very sudden turn for the worse, 218 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: and it wasn't just the brown shirts calling him the 219 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: brown Shirts of the worst element that America harbor, but 220 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: also saying I may also declare martial law. Yeah, and 221 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: that I may message never quite got through in those 222 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: confusion as to whether or not that actually happened. And basically, 223 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: the National Guard believed that that had happened, and they 224 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,599 Speaker 1: took control of the campus and said we're running the 225 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: show now. And that's just the National Guard. But the 226 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: university officials to the people running the university said, oh, well, 227 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: martial laws declared. And they knew that there was a 228 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: protest scheduled for the following day, Monday, so they printed 229 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: a bunch of flyers and pamphlets saying, hey, your constitutional 230 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: rights have been suspended because the universities under martial law, 231 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: so all assemblies banned, so don't protest, And that kind 232 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: of fell on deaf ears. I guess you could say, 233 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: come Monday morning, because the students showed up to protest. Yeah, 234 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: that definitely didn't work. Um, by noon, there was about 235 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: three thousand people, about five hundred actively protesting, another thousand 236 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: just there to be supportive. And um, and it cuts 237 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: it's a college campus. About people just checking it out. Yeah, 238 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: stopping on their way to class or whatever, you like, 239 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: what's going on. I would have done the same thing probably, 240 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: And we should say also are our buddy stuff they 241 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: don't want you to know? UM host and sometimes producer 242 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: Matt Frederick his parents were students at Kent stay and 243 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: they stay at home that day. They were like, there's 244 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: some bad stuff that's going to go down, and they 245 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: were right. Uh So, the article points out at was 246 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: less an anti war protest at this point and more 247 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: of a protest of the draconian occupation of their campus 248 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: martial law by the army and UM which is not 249 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: even real, which is just a misunderstanding. Yeah, pretty much. 250 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: So the general UM Canterbury says, you know what this 251 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: rally is over drive me around in a jeep, give 252 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: me that bullhorn, let me tell everyone to go home, 253 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: because that'll work. Yeah, I mean, let's go back to 254 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: this where these tensions came from. In the first it's 255 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: establishment versus anti establishment, and establishment is the type to 256 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: stand in a jeep and be driven around with the 257 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: bullhorn telling people to disperse. I don't know if there's 258 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: ever been a message relayed via bullhorn that doesn't fall 259 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: on deaf ears. Yeah, you know, it has the opposite effect, unless, 260 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: like I guess, in like a female situations, if you're 261 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: trying to like organize people and stuff, that helps. But 262 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: I always think of bullhorns is stuff like this, the 263 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: general riding around the jeep yelling at people to go home, 264 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: and people saying, no, you don understand why we're here 265 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: in the first place. So they started throwing rocks at 266 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: the jeep, not surprisingly and um not well think you 267 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: know tensions at this point this was day four. Yeah, 268 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: I I think though, though I'm not justifying, I'm just no, no, 269 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: I know you're not at all. But I think it's 270 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: really easy to to um to to kind of choose 271 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: one side or the other, especially once you know the outcome. 272 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: But I don't think it should be overlooked that, like 273 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: people are throwing rocks at this dude while he's driving 274 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: around in the jeep. People have burned down a building 275 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: full of rioted in the streets of the town, the 276 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: college town. I mean, like these are real huge events 277 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: that scared the pants off of the people who were 278 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: running the town, the state, the country. And I mean 279 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: to say that they were unprovoked as historically inaccurate. Yeah, 280 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: I totally agree with not justifying. But I think a 281 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: lot of people might think the story is people got 282 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: together to protest and the army came in and shot him, right, 283 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: or yeah, and and it was either the protests of fault. 284 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: They shouldn't have been protest, they shouldn't have burned down 285 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: that building, or you know, it was entirely the National 286 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: Guards fault. And you whatever historical event you're looking at, 287 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: it's never just one side or the other. Usually there's 288 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: all it's always great, and you have blinders on. If 289 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: you think otherwise, you should write a history book called 290 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: It's Always Great Josh Clark's History of America. I'd buy that, 291 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: thanks man. Um. Alright, so where are we? They were 292 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: throwing rocks at the General. He at this point ordered 293 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: his troops to load their weapons, get the tear gas going. 294 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: He said, they threw rocks, and you guys, load your weapons. 295 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 1: That's basically what happened. Um, not because his feelings were hurt. Yeah, 296 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: although imagine they were. I guess no matter who you are, 297 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure if people throw rocks and you're like I 298 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: I take that personally. So the National Guard came in. 299 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: They pushed them back past the Commons, over a steep 300 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: called Blanket Hill and into the parking lot of Prentice 301 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: Hall in a practice football field. Then basically the guardsmen 302 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: found themselves cornered by a fence, retreated back up the hill. 303 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: When they got to the top, out of the seventy 304 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: turned and began firing their guns into the crowd. Yeah. So, well, 305 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 1: not all of them into the crowd, we should point out, 306 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: most into the air or the ground. Actually, although some 307 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: fired directly in the crowd, they all would have fired 308 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: directly in the crowd. That would have been a much 309 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: higher blood count or body count. Oh yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. Um. 310 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: And I mean the the protesters were about a football 311 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: field away from them, um. And the fact that they 312 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: started to walk up the hill and then turn and 313 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: shot made it not just an attack of Americans on Americans, 314 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: but a surprise attack of Americans on Americans. Yeah. I 315 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: would say the students were definitely did not expect bullet retaliation. 316 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 1: Took about thirteen seconds. Um. Four students were killed. Alison Krauss, 317 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: not the Allison Krause obviously, Jeffrey Miller, Sandra Sure and 318 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: William Schroeder, and uh, it's all tragic, but even more 319 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: tragically Sure and Schroeder were just walking to class. Yeah, 320 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: they weren't even part of this protest. They were in 321 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: the wrong place at the wrong time, and like I said, 322 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: nine people were wounded in one Dean collar was paralyzed. 323 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: And yeah, so those shots they shot into the air 324 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: and into the ground, but also into the crowd, and 325 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 1: over about thirteen seconds, they fired between sixty one and 326 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: sixty seven shots. I think that could be categorized as 327 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: a hail of gunfire. Yeah, thirteen seconds, sixties shots, But 328 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: is that that's like a lot of shots a second, 329 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: you know, and just from twenty eight guns. And apparently 330 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: there was a professor named Glenn Frank who did a 331 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: lot to quell the crowd and did talk them into, uh, 332 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: not escalating this thing any further. Right, So this article 333 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: really kind of glances over this guy's role. And it 334 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: wasn't just him, but he was the head of the 335 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: faculty marshals, who whose job it was was to basically 336 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: keep an eye on the protests. They were like the 337 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: university's liaison between the university and the students the protesters, 338 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: and this guy and his crew basically single handedly prevented 339 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: like a massacre because they saw very quickly that if 340 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: they didn't insinuate themselves, but between the guardsmen and the students, 341 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: the students were gonna be like, Holy, Holy God, they 342 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: just fired live ammunition on us, and they're standing right there, 343 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: let's get them. They would have attacked. The consensus is 344 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: the students would have attacked out of anger, and that 345 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: the guardsmen most definitely would have fired again when being attacked. 346 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: UM and these this this faculty member and his team 347 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: saw what was about to happen and slid in and 348 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: was like wait. So they first they spoke to the 349 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: guardsman and said, stop firing, we have to go talk 350 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: to the students. Then they went and spoke to the 351 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: students for twenty minutes and got him to calm down 352 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: enough to to to stop provoking or did not provoker, 353 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: advance on the guardsman in retaliation, and saved a lot 354 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: of lives. Probably. I wonder if there's a Glenn Frank 355 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: statue on campus, there should be agree. Uh. So they 356 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: closed school not for the day or the weekend, but 357 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: for the rest of the semester, and UM a lot 358 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: of colleges did the same. As far as shutting down, well, 359 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: because a lot of students went on strike. Yeah, and 360 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: like they were forced to the universities were forced to 361 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: shut down. Uh. In the following weekend, UM a hundred 362 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: thousand people went to d c UM to protest. Neil 363 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: Young News to Josh wrote a song about it. M Okay, 364 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: so the the shooting has just happened, that the crowd 365 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: has been quelled, the dead and Moon would have been 366 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: taken away an ambulances and now we've reached the aftermath 367 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: that's immediate and otherwise. Yeah, Um, President Nixon wasn't super compassionate. 368 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: He had earlier been overheard calling them bums. This wasn't 369 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: in his press release, obviously, but it definitely got out 370 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: in the press. Did not bode well for his reputation. 371 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: And um, he said, when dissent turns to violence, it 372 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: invites tragedy. That was the official line. That was the 373 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: official line, which is pretty cold. That's the president like, yeah, 374 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: you get what you what you pay for. Yeah, very much. 375 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: His vice president, um Agnew said it was predictable. UM 376 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: also not super compassionate, considering this these were Americans were 377 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: shot and killed Uh, two of which were just walking 378 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: to class. Uh. He called them a bunch of scared 379 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: kids with guns. The National guardsman. That was very priced 380 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 1: the speechwriter for Nixon. Yeah, which is true. Yeah, but 381 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: so basically the whole the whole kids, it's gray, you know. 382 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: It is like they probably were scared for sure, and 383 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: uh and yeah, I think that's fair. I think also 384 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: though it's it's one sided too, like he's he's not 385 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: saying and then also the other side, we're a bunch 386 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: of scared, angry kids with rocks. Yeah, like the only 387 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: way and you can't even remove the gray, but you'd 388 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: have to find out each person who shot and what 389 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: their motive was, because some were probably scared out of 390 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: their mind and reacted. There has been some people later 391 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: on that said that they some got together and decided 392 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: to do this, some of the guardsmen, right, so, when 393 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: they had been pushing the crowd back onto the UM 394 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: practice football field, apparently while they were loitering there. There 395 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: have been allegations that a couple of the guardsmen said, Hey, 396 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: when we marched back up the hill, we're going to 397 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: turn and fire. It's never been proven, um, but a 398 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: few more than a couple of historians have leveled that accusation. Um. 399 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: There was also immediate word that the guardsman said that 400 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: they were acting in self defense because they there was 401 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: a sniper on one of the rooftops and that they 402 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: were being fired on. They found out that there were 403 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: audio recordings of this, and UM, that was quickly changed 404 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: to well, it was self defense because these people we're 405 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: throwing rocks at us. There was a presidential commission obviously, UM, 406 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: and they concluded it was quote unnecessary, unwarranted, and inexcusable. 407 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: And then in UH, an FBI investigation found that the 408 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: guardsman fabricated their defense and that they were not in 409 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: true danger. Right. That was FBI. So the presidential commission 410 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: and the FBI investigation both said, like, this shouldn't have happened, 411 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 1: and like it's on the guardsman. But that wasn't the 412 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: mood of the nation for the most part. There was 413 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: a gallop pole that was conducted shortly after, and UM, 414 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: the majority of Americans said that it was the protester's 415 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: fault for protesting. Yeah, I mean it went to trial too. 416 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: It wasn't just like, oh, well this happened and it's 417 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: super sad. Uh. And in federal trial, it was dismissed 418 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: because of what was called a weak case by the guardsman, 419 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: and then the grand jury in Ohio put the blame 420 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: on the university officials and the protesters and not the guardsman. 421 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: And then there was a civil trial in nineteen seventy 422 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: nine settled out of court where the victims and families 423 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: got a collective sum of six d seventy dollars ah 424 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: collective some meaning I guess that was for all of them, right, yeah, yeah, 425 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: they all split that and no apology was apology was 426 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 1: ever issued. Um, they did issue a sign statement expressing regret. 427 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: Do you want to hear it? Yeah, So this is 428 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: the sign statement that the that was that came out 429 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: of the civil trial that the Ohio National Guard released 430 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: to the families of the victims. In retrospect, the tragedy 431 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: of May fourth, nineteen seventies should not have occurred. The 432 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: students may have believed that they were right in continuing 433 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: their mass protests in response to the Cambodian invasion, even 434 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: though this protest followed the posting and reading by the 435 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: university of an order to ban rallies and in order 436 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: to disperse These orders have since been determined by the 437 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals to have been lawful. Some 438 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: of the guardsmen on Blanket Hill, fearful and anxious from 439 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: prior events, may have believed their own, in their own minds, 440 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: that their lives were in danger. Hindsight suggests that another 441 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: method would have resolved the confrontation. Better ways must be 442 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: found to deal with such a confrontation. We devoutly wish 443 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: that a means had been found to avoid the May 444 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: fourth events culminating in the guard shootings and the irreversible 445 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: deaths and injuries. We deeply regret those events and are 446 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: profoundly saddened by the deaths of four students and the 447 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: wounding of nine others which resulted. We hope that the 448 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: agreement to end the litigation will help to asswadge the 449 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: tragic memories regarding that sad day. I don't apology, no 450 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: sort of like we regret, hindsight being we might have 451 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: shaid have done something differently right saying we regret instead 452 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: of I'm sorry. Is that's a big flashing light. It's 453 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: a big death. Uh. And for many years they um 454 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: the university itself wasn't quite sure how to handle moving 455 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: forward in memoriam and otherwise. UM. In the seventies, they 456 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: the officials at Kent State failed. They tried to, but 457 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: they tried to commemorate it just once every five years 458 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: instead of every year. And everybody who held the visuals like, 459 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: well then you have nothing to do with this. And 460 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: they kept showing up every year, right like what are 461 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: you gonna do? Calling the National Guard and remove us? 462 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 1: And they went. Uh. In nineteen seventy nine, there were 463 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: hundreds of arrest because the university tried to bulldoze the 464 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: place where it happened to build a gym that didn't happen. Uh. 465 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: And it took all the way up until to keep 466 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: cars from driving over the spots in the parking lot 467 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: where the students were killed. Right. And then finally in 468 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: the mid two thousand's, UM, the university is finally reverse 469 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: this position and just kind of goes with the flow. 470 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: And in two thirteen they opened a visitors center that 471 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: is all about commemorating this event as a historical event. 472 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: But also I get the impression from the the descriptions 473 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: of the visitors center a UM kind of the spiritual 474 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: aspect of it. The spiritual aspect of tragedy and is 475 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: that just last year? Uh. Now the university UM, they say, 476 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: as a nation's leader in UH courses of non violence 477 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: and democracy and peace studies and conflict resolution classes were 478 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: all established, so they, you know, are trying to lead 479 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: the way forward and at least being a symbol of uh, 480 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: you know, peaceful protest, right. And people are still trying 481 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: to figure out what happened. There's still lots of debate. UM. 482 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: Oliver Stone unsurprisingly favors the theory that the government placed 483 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: a sniper UM in these protests and that there were 484 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: government plant agitators who pushed the protests over the line. UM. 485 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: And this idea is supported by the fact that there 486 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: were policies by governors and the president to crack down 487 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: on dissent on student anti war protests. So there definitely 488 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,239 Speaker 1: was a policy that was like, if you want to 489 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: get dirty, we'll we'll we'll send our goons to beat 490 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: you up. UM. But a lot of people think that 491 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: the presence of a snipers totally unsupported. UM. But then 492 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: a cassette emerged UH fairly recently that that's an actual 493 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: audio recording of that day that says supposedly you can 494 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: hear um the phrases get, set, point, and fire, which 495 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: means that this wasn't a surprise knee jerk shooting. That 496 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: there was an officer commanding the guardsman to shoot. Yeah. 497 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: And it also, um, you know what, with modern analysis, 498 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: they think that there may have been shots fired before 499 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: uh full I think seventy seconds before the guardsmen fired. 500 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: There's a a Kin State student named Terry Norman UM 501 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: who was a photographer on campus taking pictures, and he 502 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: also had a handgun, a loaded handgun, and he denied 503 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: that he discharged it. But um, he has been accused 504 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: of triggering this by firing shots. And I think they 505 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: found evidence, audio evidence that there were shots fired, and 506 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: they think it maybe have been Terry Norman. Wow, that 507 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: kicked it all off. And can you imagine carrying that around? No? 508 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: I could not. And then chuck um. This is a 509 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: lot of people say that that Kent State was the 510 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: beginning of the um slide towards Watergate. For Nixon, this 511 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: is like the beginning of the end for him. Um. 512 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: And then we should also talk about what happened at 513 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: Jackson State because race relations of this country are so 514 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: messed up that everybody talks about Kent State where four 515 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: white students died, and no one talks about Jackson State, 516 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: which happened ten days later and two black people died, 517 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: black students. Yeah, and could have been a lot worse. 518 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: Like they basically riddled a dormitory with a hail of 519 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: gun fire. So ten days after Kent State UM, at 520 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: Jackson State University UM in Mississippi, UH, they were also 521 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: carrying out anti war protests, but they were also UM 522 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: protests based on racism as well. UM. And when these 523 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: students were doing a lot of the similar stuff, a 524 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: lot of the same stuff that was happening or had 525 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: happened at Kent State, they were UM riding. They had 526 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: burned a building on campus down and UM. When firefighters 527 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: came out to put out the flames, they started to 528 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: get worried that these protesters were going to harm them, 529 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: so they called the cops. Well, the cops came out, 530 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: tried to disperse the crowd. The crowd didn't disperse, so 531 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: they opened fire, and like you said, they riddled the 532 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: building that served as the backdrop to this protest with bullets. 533 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: Something like four hundred and sixty rounds hit the building, alone. 534 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: There's no telling how manyone on the sides or anything 535 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: like that. The four hundred and sixty rounds, they said 536 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: every window was akin on every floor with bullet fire 537 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: on the on a crowd of crowd of students. Um, 538 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: and amazingly only two people died. Yeah, Philip Gibbs, he 539 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: was a pre law major and a father of an 540 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: eighteen monthly son. And James Green. He was seventeen years 541 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: old and he was a high school student walking home 542 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: from his job at the grocery store. Which again, the 543 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: fact that he's not involved in anyway and still died 544 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: makes it so much worse. Yeah. And this one, also, 545 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: I don't think we pointed out started out because of misinformation. 546 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: There was um a rumor that the mayor, Mayor Charles 547 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: Evers and his wife had been shot and killed, assassinated 548 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: basically it was not true. A relative of Mega Evers, right, Yeah, 549 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: he was his brother, and so that's kind of what 550 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: sparked everything. In addition to like the anti war protests, 551 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: and uh, it was very much about black and white. 552 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean like there there. Yeah, so um, 553 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: this is a historically black call edge. The cops had 554 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: just opened fire on a bunch of students. Twelve people 555 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: were hit by injured by gunfire. Two were killed, and 556 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: the ambulances weren't called until the police picked up all 557 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: of their showcasings and left, and then the National Guard 558 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: came in. Yeah, and then after that the police denied 559 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: they even took part. Um. I'm not sure how that 560 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,479 Speaker 1: panned out. How can you deny that he shot up 561 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: a building? So it was Mississippi in and historically black college. 562 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: And you probably never heard of Jackson State for NT 563 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: until we started researching this. I didn't. I hadn't heard 564 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: of it either, and there was only one source we 565 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: used that made reference to it. That's how I heard 566 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: about it. So that's great. It's just fantastic. That's what 567 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: happened against state in Jackson State, in Jackson State. Um, 568 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: you got anything else? I got nothing else. Just gotta 569 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: be a better ending of this than this. I mean, 570 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: these things happened, but there there has to have been 571 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: some lesson learned. I think. So it hasn't happened since. Yeah, 572 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 1: that's true. I wonder at least on a campus. Yeah, 573 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: we should do one on the Battle for Seattle. Did 574 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: they didn't fire live rounds at that though, did they 575 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure they didn't, but that, Yeah, we should 576 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: do one on that as well. Yeah, my friend John 577 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: was there agitating is he a black shirt? Now? He 578 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: had these funny protest lines about that references Simpsons. I 579 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: can't remember her black block, that's where they got the pictures. Yeah, Um, 580 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: well I have to interview him then. I don't know 581 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: that it would yield much information. Fine, I think he 582 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: was just cooping around. Um, all right, Well, if you 583 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: want to learn more about Kent State, you can type 584 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: in uh that name into the search bar how stuff 585 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: works dot com. And we also encourage you to go 586 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: look up Jackson State as well. Um. And let's see, 587 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: since I said search bar you it's time for listener mail, right, Yes, sir, 588 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: gonna call this. Prison guard wrote in, Hey guys, Um, 589 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: For the most part, I found the episode on capital 590 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: Punishment pretty even handed and interesting. However, I couldn't help 591 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: but notice a bit of venom in your voices whenever 592 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: you mentioned prison guards, especially in instance of an inmate 593 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: taking his own life with a razor blade while he 594 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: was being off observed on deathwatch. The implication was that 595 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: the guard on duty negligently gave the inmate a razor 596 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: in order to encourage him to take his own life. 597 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: I don't think we implied that, did we. Um, No, 598 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: it wasn't implied. It was more just like what kind 599 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: of thing? Like why why did that happen? As a 600 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: former prison guard that worked on death row, I have 601 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: to tell you, UM, that couldn't be further from the truth. 602 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 1: It's a civil right for inmates to have access to 603 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: razor blades for hygienic purposes. I was required to allow 604 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: an inmate on death row to keep the disposable razor 605 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: for thirty minutes, despite the fact that he had nearly 606 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: killed another inmate and murdered a prison official with a 607 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: razor blade while serving his senates. I'd imagine an inmate, 608 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: even on deathwatch, would have similar rights, but I can't 609 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: confirm through experience. UM. Guards that worked on death row 610 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: weren't allowed to serve on death watch. This is because 611 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: it was feared that we'd form an emotional bond to 612 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: the inmates set for execution. I might cause a scene. 613 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: So yes, prison guards have feelings and can have empathy 614 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: for others. Pop culture and nearly always portrays guards as 615 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: heavy as and villains and even smart portrayals of prison 616 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: life like Orange is the New Black, as every prison 617 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: official character as a comic book mustache twirling villain or 618 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,879 Speaker 1: a mouth breathing idiot. It's a hard job and should 619 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: be respected as much as other high risk civil servant careers. Um. 620 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: A little disappointed you guys continue this trend, but I'm 621 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,800 Speaker 1: used to it, so don't sweat it. So that is 622 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: from Craig, and he let us off easy, even though 623 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 1: he feels like we insulted his job. Well thanks, Craig. 624 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: I think he did exactly what we were kind of 625 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:03,919 Speaker 1: searching for right then. We were just um ah, disgustedly confused. 626 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: We're disgustedly ignorant one of the two. Yeah. I will 627 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: say that he is probably right on the money. As 628 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: far as movie portrayals, it's pretty one note if you're 629 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: a prison guard in a movie in general, unless it's 630 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: The Green Mile and that movie has problems of its 631 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: own or OZ. I never watched Oz. What that was 632 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: the first? That Odds is the show that kicked off 633 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: all of the shows you love and binge watched. Now, 634 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: the idea of binge watching a show began with a 635 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: show like Oz because there was nothing like it ever 636 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: created before. It was. It all started with Oz, the Wire, 637 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: the shield, Um, House of Cards. Orange is a new 638 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: black Everything, every breaking bad, all of them. Can thank Oz. 639 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: You can thank Oz. You should go watch oz Man. 640 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: Thank you Oz. It's good, great man. This one was. 641 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,479 Speaker 1: This is something I feel drained a little bit. Yeah, yeah, 642 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: emotionally exhausted. I'm still not happy with the ending. I 643 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: feel like we could have ended a lot better. But um, 644 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: I'll have to think on it all right. Uh. If 645 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with me and Chuck, 646 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: you can tweet to us at s y s K podcast. 647 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: You can hang out on our Facebook page, Facebook dot com, 648 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: slash Stuff you Should Know. Um. You can send us 649 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: an email to Stuff podcast at how stuff Works dot 650 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 1: com and has always joined us at our home on 651 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: the web. Stuff you Should Know dot Com. Stuff you 652 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: Should Know is a production of iHeart Radios. How Stuff 653 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 1: Works for more podcasts for my Heart Radio because at 654 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 655 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.