1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, what'll welcome back to the show. Happy holiday, Yeah, 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: Happy holidays. I'm Eli, I'm Diana. We're so thrilled to 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: have you on this very cold day. Or we're recording 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: during this cold snap down in Atlanta. But y'all have 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: heard people talking endlessly. I'm sure about the temperature these 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: past few days. Uh. We are here with a special 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: episode today that's like not a Christmas story, but it's 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: based on the guy who wrote the ultimate Christmas story, 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens, Right, Christmas Carol, lovely little story. I don't 10 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,319 Speaker 1: know if you've heard of it, probably not familiar, but 11 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: it's actually a ghost story immortalized by the muppets. I 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: can't wait to watch. That's so good. It's a classic 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: Christmas Eve movie. It's also one of the best movies 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: ever made ever. So it's just that. Don't at me. 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: But there is so much story to tell here today, 16 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: so I say we get right into it. Because last 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: time we learned about Hans Christian Anderson, the lifelong Virgin, who, 18 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: in his heartbreak, wrote some of the most classic stories 19 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: of all time. You know them, The Ugly Duck laying, 20 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: the snow Queen, the Princess and the Pea, The Jerich 21 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: Who Didn't Love Me Back, also known as the Little 22 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: Mermaid um But. One of the most famous stories about 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: Hans Christian Anderson is from the summer of eighteen fifty seven, 24 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: when he spent five long weeks with England's most beloved author, 25 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens. And of course Hans was obsessed with him, 26 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: you know Hans. But like the other objects of Hans 27 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: Christian Anderson's desire, Dickens thought that this guy was maybe 28 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: a bit too much. So let's hear about how Hans 29 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: inserted himself into Charles's life, the extremely British drama that 30 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: he was butting in on, and the scroogey reaction he 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: got in response, Let's do it, hey French, come listen well, 32 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: Elia and Diana gots joys to tell there's no matchmaking, 33 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: all romantic tips. It's just about ridiculous relationship a lover. 34 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: It might be any type of person at all, and 35 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: abstract concept for a concrete wall. But if there's a 36 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 1: story with the second glance ridiculous role that a production 37 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, I do want to throw out 38 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: that this episode was suggested to us by Arvid Gomez 39 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Kiss a Kissmas also had the distinction 40 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,519 Speaker 1: of being um the very first person to ever email 41 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: us started the show. Thank you breaking that. Seal Rvid wrote, 42 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: I had a small suggestion for an episode Hans Christian Anderson, 43 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: the Danish author who terrorized Charles Dickens for weeks when 44 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 1: he invited himself in. He had a very different view 45 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: of love and sexuality too, which might be more the 46 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: point of your podcast really, and of course that has 47 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: been the point of this episode, as we've learned about 48 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,119 Speaker 1: Hans Christian Anderson now moving into two episodes, maybe even three, 49 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: just so much to say about Hans and his feelings 50 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: on love and sex and romance and all this stuff. 51 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: So thank you so much for sending this in. Yes, 52 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: a great suggestion. Yeah, we also have a listener named 53 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: Lundy Jensen or at Randysens, who specifically asked for Dutch 54 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: accents on our Instagram post about our last Hans Anderson 55 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 1: started listening, it was like, I can't wait to hear 56 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: your Dutch accents, and we decidedly did not do them 57 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: in the last time because that is not an accent 58 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: I'm familiar with. But now fine, we're doing you can thank, Yeah, 59 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: you can thank, which is I just learned this her 60 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: in in Dutch. So there we go in Dutch, in Danish, 61 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: in Dutch, Dutchess, the language Danish, the people and they 62 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: all right. There is so much more to say about 63 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: Christian Anderson and his love life. In fact, he had 64 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: many non lovers, amazing people, and we're just gonna have 65 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: to bring you that next week. But right now we 66 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: got to get into the reason for the season here 67 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: and why the Hans Christian Anderson story fell into our 68 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: lap for Christmas. In June of Anderson went to England 69 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: for the first time, and while he was attending an 70 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: aristocratic party there, he met the author Charles Dickens. Anderson 71 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: was not at this point well known in England yet 72 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: because his stories were only just being translated into English 73 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: for the first time, so nobody there had really heard 74 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: much about him. But Dickens, on the other hand, was 75 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: at the height of his career. A Christmas Carol, Oliver 76 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 1: Twist and Nicholas Nickleby had all been published already, and 77 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: he was about to start releasing David Copperfield as a serial. 78 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: Anderson called Dickens quote England's now living writer whom I 79 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: do love the moment, and they had a brief and 80 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: respectful conversation. At this part, um Anderson barely knew any English, 81 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: but they were both known for writing depictions of poor, 82 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: underclass people who were hit hard by the Industrial Revolution, 83 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: so they had plenty to sort of talk about mid things. 84 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: Try real hard, but you know, old Hans Christian Anderson. 85 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: He gets intense fast after this meeting with Dickens. He 86 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: immediately runs back to his place and he writes a 87 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: let her home to his friends, and he's like, oh, 88 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: my god, adjustment. Charles Dickens. He's like everything I ever 89 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: could have dreamed of. He's perfect, he's amazing, he's everything. 90 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: I love this guy. And Charles Dickens, I mean, he 91 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: must have thought that Anderson was a pretty nice guy too, 92 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: because a few weeks after Anderson got home, Charles sent 93 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: him a package of some of his books and a 94 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: little personal note, which Anderson probably immediately like ran and 95 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,559 Speaker 1: hung this note up on the inside of his locker, 96 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: but he could see it every time he went to 97 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: school and opened the door. Oh my friend, Charles Dickens, 98 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: my best friend in the world. We're nailing it. So Anderson, 99 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: of course like very giddy, very childish person as we've 100 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: learned through the last episode. But Charles Dickens, in contrast, 101 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: this guy is like Mr Cool. He's super dushing, and 102 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: he's a bit colorful, and let's not forget that he 103 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: is very very British, extra British. Michelle Dean writes on 104 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: the Rumpus dot net that after nearly ten years of 105 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: Anderson writing letters to Dickens all the time like they 106 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: were now best friends in the whole wide world, quote, 107 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: Dickens embraced the British tradition of passive aggression and sent 108 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: what appears to have been a disingenuous invitation to Anderson 109 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: to come and stay with him, sort of a letter 110 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: of like a hello, if you're ever in the area, 111 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: please stop by. I would love to see you. But 112 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: Dean writes that while some say this letter was written affectionately, 113 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: it quote was written with the kind of flourish that 114 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: signals in since Sarah a tea, okay, so just some 115 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: of that more British, like I'm telling you to come, 116 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: I'd love to see you, but we know that doesn't 117 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: mean come see me, right, A little bit of a hint, 118 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: hint or just formality right, not sincere. I'm thinking about 119 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: this lady who went to Iceland, and she was like, 120 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: by the way, if you're American and you're in Iceland, 121 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: don't say what we say, which is like, hey, we 122 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: should hang out sometime or see you soon, or like 123 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: one of those little things that we just say on 124 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: top hint because they immediately go okay when yeah, oh oh, 125 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: do you want to hang out again? Okay, how about tomorrow? 126 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: I have some time? And you're like, oh shoot, I 127 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: was just trying to be polite right now, I got 128 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: a house guest. How are you today? Oh? Well, I 129 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: stopped my tod this morning, and the first time I'll 130 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: ever see my mother since the day since the day 131 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,239 Speaker 1: she left me when I was five years old, is tomorrow. 132 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: And I'm a little nervous about it. And You're like, 133 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: oh my god, I just meant how you're doing it, 134 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: didn't really mean say good how and you So just 135 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: a lot of cultural differences in the communication style there. 136 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: But question, based on everything that we've learned over the 137 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: past hour or so about Hans Christian Anderson, do you 138 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: think that he picked up on the social cues and 139 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: of course he did not. He took this letter completely 140 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: seriously and he was so excited that he didn't even 141 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: know how to respond. So instead of just writing back 142 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: and being like, yes, I'd love to come, Anderson announced 143 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: to the press that he would be traveling back to London. 144 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 1: And by now he had become very well known across 145 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: all across Europe, so this was like big news. Then 146 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: he wrote to Dickens and said, I mean, I only 147 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 1: want to come if you'll really want me to come. 148 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: I will come, but only if you want me to 149 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: And once again the British took over in Dickens and 150 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: he wrote back, probably through gritted teeth, Oh, just of 151 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: course I do. Nothing would make me happy. Uh do 152 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: you soon? I guess. So. When Anderson showed up in 153 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: England for his infamous eighteen fifty seven trip, he didn't 154 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: really get much of a welcome. There wasn't even a 155 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: carriage waiting for him at the station in Kent. He 156 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: had to pay somebody to help him carry his bags 157 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: and walked to Dickenson's estate, Gad's Hill. Now his first 158 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: night there, Anderson found his room extremely cold, and in 159 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: the morning he was offended to find no servant on 160 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: staff to offer him a shave, which he explained was 161 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: a common Danish custom, like, if I'm staying at your house, 162 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: you have someone there to shave me in the morning. 163 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: So instead, Anderson sent off for Charles Dickens's eldest son 164 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: to come do it, which, of course, you know, the 165 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: eldest son of famous author Charles Dickens. Being told come 166 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: shave your house guest is like, I'm sorry. The hell 167 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: do you want me to do? Is this? After that, Dickens, 168 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: of course, finding this extremely strange, booked Anderson a daily 169 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: appointment in town with a bar burr. This is where 170 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: we go. So yes, right now. Charles Dickens, for his part, 171 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: he was really going through it at the time. Actually, 172 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: a friend of his had just died, and Dickens had 173 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: promised this guy on his deathbed that he would help 174 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: out his wife and children, and so as a benefit 175 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: for them, he started producing several performances of his friend 176 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: Wilkie Collins play The Frozen Deep, and Dickens and his 177 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: daughters would act in this performance. Now at the premiere 178 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: in the audience was Queen Victoria, the Prince of Prussia, 179 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: the King of Belgium, and a gangly, awkward fifty two 180 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: year old Gidey children's author who had basically invited himself 181 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: over and during the premiere, Anderson, during Charles dickens death scene, 182 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: burst into tears. He just started bawling in the center 183 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: of the audience, which, of course, to all the royal 184 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: British folks around, was just extremely awkward and uncouth, too 185 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: much emotional express a sales Mr Anderson, I feel like 186 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: as Dickens, I'd be like, I must be acting this ship. 187 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: See this guy is upset. I think more he's just concerned. 188 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: It's like, you're embarrassing me in front of Shut your mouth, Anderson. 189 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: It's not literally not a worse person. You can be 190 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: embarrassing me in front of Now. This was not the 191 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: only time that Hans Christian Anderson awkwardly burst into tears. Apparently, 192 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: while he was at the Dickens of State, he got 193 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: word that his new novel To Be or Not to 194 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: Be had gotten bad reviews, and this made him throw 195 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: himself on the lawn and start sobbing yenz Anderson writes 196 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: in Hans Christian Anderson's biography that Hans's reactions quote, we're 197 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: not the least bit charming. No, I can imagine it's 198 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: always awkward for someone to like burst into tears in 199 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: front of you. Um. And I imagine especially at the 200 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens estate where he's like, yeah, I'm Charles Dickens. 201 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: I've I've had a share of bad reviews. This isn't 202 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: how a dignified men behaves in such instances. Is there 203 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: a good way to respond to a bad review? Really? Yes? Uh? 204 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: You look at a bad review and you go yeah, right, 205 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: and then you walk away. Or honestly, if I'm being 206 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: super honest to me, a bad review is uh, you 207 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: want to look at it, and the first thing you 208 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: want to think is can I learned something from this? Right? 209 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: Do they have a legitimate point? Or even even even 210 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: if even if I'm like, well, I disagree with you, Okay, 211 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: Well you're the person who has to listen to my work, 212 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 1: so I have to decide if you are representative of 213 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: all listeners and I therefore should adapt, you know, because 214 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: you're the ones to have to listen to it. Um 215 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: Or do I say, okay, I don't. I am not 216 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: responding to this. I don't care. It's not going to 217 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: affect me and you move on and it stings a little, 218 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: but screw him. That's how I feel. Very very, very 219 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: few and absurd negative reviews we've gotten on this show. 220 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: I guess that's what I mean, though, It's like, there's 221 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: no way to publicly react to a bad review that 222 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: is not going to make you look kind of silly 223 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: or undignified or like you're taking it too personally or whatever. Sure, 224 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: but throwing yourself down to the ground and having a 225 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: tantrum definitely not the worst option. Now. One time, Hans 226 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: visited the philanthropist Baroness Angela Boudette Coots, who was one 227 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: of the most wealthy women in England, and YenS writes 228 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: that Hans found the servants too elegant and didn't dare 229 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: ask them to put more pillows on this bed, so 230 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: instead he asked the Baroness herself, which is so awkward. Yes, 231 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: First of all, she's like, that's not literally pay people 232 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: to do this. Second of all, you're saying I'm less 233 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: elegant than Like, what are you trying to say now? 234 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens tried to escape Hans as much as he could, 235 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: and he used rehearsals for The Frozen Deep as an 236 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: excuse to stay away, but the estate of Gad's Hill 237 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: was his family's main house. There really wasn't much getting 238 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: away at all. Anderson, you know, he probably did recognize 239 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: the sort of awkward tension that he was creating, and 240 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: of course he's going to work really hard to overcome that, which, 241 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: again in Victorian England, is not what you do. He 242 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: just made things more awkward by trying to cut through 243 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: the tension, and his obsession with Charles Dickens made everyone uncomfortable. 244 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: One time at dinner, Charles held out his arm to 245 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: a visiting lady, who escort her into the room, and 246 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: Hans Christian Anderson swooped in between them and grabbed his 247 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: arm for himself, and as charles son Henry Rowe to 248 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: quote leading father triumphantly into the dining room. Oh lord, 249 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens is like me, and Muggen is deaditely like 250 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: look at mind his shoulder, like rolling his eyes. He 251 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: did he just do? Yeah, And of course everyone is 252 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: like teasing Charles Dickens for this, you know, when you've 253 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: got that embarrassing friend. Yeah, but that is really just 254 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: the beginning of Hans Christian Andersen's ridiculous antics at Charles 255 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: dickens house. His awkward behavior drove Dickens absolutely nuts, but 256 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: that might have been because Dickens was secretly having some 257 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: marital problems in the background, and Anderson had no idea 258 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: that he was making things a lot worse. So we 259 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: will hear more about that right after these words, welcome 260 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: back everybody now. Charles Dickens had ten children with his 261 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: wife Catherine, and they mostly did not like Hans Christian 262 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: Andersen either, probably especially that oldest son who's like I 263 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: Ain shaven, another grown man. Charles daughter Kate called him 264 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: quote a bony boar who stayed on and on. But 265 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: he did connect a little with Charles's youngest son, five 266 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: year old Edward, who was affectionately called Plorne. The first 267 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: night Anderson was there, Clorine told him quote, I'll shove 268 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: you out the window. I not only want you to leave, 269 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: I want you to possibly hurt yourself or die. But 270 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: Anderson won him over with his silly antics. Florin loved 271 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: hearing Anderson speak in Danish because Hans is English was 272 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: still pretty bad. It was maybe even worse than it 273 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: was before the ten years ago when he was at 274 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: that party. So every time Lauren heard a Danish word 275 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: that kind of sounded like an English word, he would say, 276 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: I understand Danish. It's just so close cute. I love 277 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: a five girl being like no I I I understood that. 278 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: YenS writes that later, when Anderson asked if Florin liked him, 279 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: Florin gave a big smile and said yes, and now 280 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: he would like to shove Anderson in the window. One time, 281 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: Hans Christian Anderson made a big old daisy wreath and 282 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: he wrapped it around the playwright Wilkie Collins top hat 283 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: without him knowing. Wilkie was a friend of Charles Dickens. 284 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: He was the one who wrote The Frozen Deep, And 285 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: as they walked through town together, everybody was like pointing 286 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: and laughing at Wilkie Collins. Of course, he had no 287 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: idea why, and Charles Dickens kids were kind of like, okay, 288 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: that's kind of funny, sort of like that like a 289 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: kick me sign on. But Collins did get back at 290 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: Anderson later though. He wrote a short story about a 291 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: famous German writer named Harold von Wuff who stayed at 292 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: the home of his English colleague Sir John and har 293 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: Von is portrayed as quote a sentimental catture, a glutton, 294 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: and an unhappy foreign bachelor. According to Yenz Anderson's biography, 295 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: so very clearly this is meant to be Hans Christian 296 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: Anderson and Colin Story says quote, there was no harm 297 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: in hair von muf as for poor sir John. He 298 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: suffered more than any of us for her. Von muff 299 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,479 Speaker 1: was always trying to kiss him. So they're really just 300 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: you know, teasing Anderson about how obsessed with Charles Dickens 301 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: he was. You know, I don't think he ever really 302 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: tried to kiss him. There's definitely a few people that 303 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: are like, maybe he felt romantically about Charles Dickens, but 304 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: mostly he just like idolized him and worshiped him in 305 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: the most annoying way. It's like a fanboy situation. Yeah. Now. 306 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: Dickens also wrote letters to friends where he relentlessly teased 307 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: Anderson and regularly made fun of him for being afraid 308 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: of pickpocketers, because London kind of freaked Anderson out. This 309 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: is a big, bustling city, and he apparently kept all 310 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: his belongings in his boots when he traveled the city, which, 311 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: to be fair, is pretty funny because this included a watch, money, 312 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: a train schedule, a pocket book, a pair of scissors, 313 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: a pen knife, and two small books. What kind of 314 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,479 Speaker 1: boots are you wearing? Just like stretched out around his legs. 315 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: I always buy boots two slices. But when I go 316 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: to London, like I'm imagining, you know, if you have 317 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: a giant purse and you can't find anything, but that's 318 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: his boots. He's like, I have got some chipstick in 319 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 1: here somewhere. He's trying to pay for get his train schedule. 320 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: It's like, oh no, it's the penknife again. He misses 321 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: three trains because he can't get the schedule of his boot. 322 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: He's got to like dump it all out in the 323 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: middle of the station. Mary Poppins boots he's wearing. It's 324 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: got like a reading lamp. He pulls out of him. 325 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 1: Oh my god, amazing, Oh good hand sand of bitch. 326 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: I made I know this would come in empty. I 327 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: correcked myself up. But Dickens also shipped on Anderson's writing 328 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: abilities and marked him for quote not being able to 329 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: pronounce the name of his own book, The Improvisa Torre 330 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: in Italian. He said, Anderson quote spoke French like Peter 331 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: the wild Boy, and English like the deaf and dumb school. 332 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: Yet Anderson wrote in his diary the quote Dickens says, 333 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: I speak better not only day by day, but hour 334 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: by hour. That's so rude. I mean, like Dickens out 335 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 1: here like talking insane ship. He's like writing the rudest 336 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: things about him to all of his friends. And then 337 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: Anderson is like, wow, when we meet up, he's so 338 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: friendly to me, He's so nice. So he's just a real, 339 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: you know, back talking piece of shit. That's some British 340 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: ship to do as well, to be like, I'm going 341 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: to be rude as fucked you, but I'm going to 342 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: hide behind my polite manners. That's why I'm being rude. 343 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: It's because I can't be honest. What is that? And 344 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: especially Victorian England, Yeah that's you, but not you your ancestors, 345 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, but yeah, no exactly where It's like he 346 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: can't be straightforward to someone's face, that wouldn't be proper. 347 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: But it's okay for me to talk mad ship about 348 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: him behind his back, right, So I don't know, it's 349 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: not like sad because you know, Anderson's expecting way more 350 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: straight dealing, it seems, or needs to be told very clearly, 351 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: you know how you feel, what you're thinking, because maybe 352 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,959 Speaker 1: he's like missing, maybe you know, he had some kind 353 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: of autism spectrum type thing where he's like, I really 354 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: can't like I need a very literal person yea, because 355 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: because either way, uh, you know, in addition to being 356 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: a foreigner and having totally different customs, Hans Christian Anderson 357 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,959 Speaker 1: we have seen is kind of like a child in 358 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: so many ways, and his communication I think it reflects that. 359 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: And he does sort of take things literally and expect 360 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: you to say what you're saying. Yeah. Um, So there's 361 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: definitely a communication barrier here. But to be fair, Hans 362 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: Kristan Anderson did invite himself there to begin with, and 363 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: was supposed to stay for two weeks and ended up 364 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: staying for five. So you know, it's not like Dickens 365 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: isn't rightfully piste off at this guy. Now, it's unclear 366 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: exactly what brought this lengthy visit to an end. Some 367 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: accounts say that Dickens finally got fed up and asked 368 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: or told him to leave. Others say that Anderson just 369 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: finally felt that he was unwelcome, and he left in tears. 370 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: In either case, he did seem to know that he 371 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: hadn't been the best guest, because he wrote to Dickens, quote, 372 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: kindly forget the unfavorable aspect which our life together may 373 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: have shown you of me. And Dickens barely responded to 374 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: this in a letter where he just kind of described 375 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: how the countryside had changed since Anderson left. Yes, since 376 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: you left, the leaves of fallen off the trees and 377 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: the fields are now brown. And then he never wrote 378 00:22:55,240 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: or spoke to Anderson again out Yes, Dickens, in a 379 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: hugely petty move, had a little sign made up that 380 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: he placed on the mantle of the fireplace in the 381 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: guest room where Anderson had stayed, and it said, quote 382 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: Hans Anderson slept in this room for five weeks, which 383 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: seemed to the family ages. What a plaque that's so rude, 384 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: Olivia Retiguliano writes on lid hub quote This interlude does 385 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: remind us that while sometimes you can meet your heroes, 386 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: maybe just don't let your fans live with you in 387 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: your house. Great advice. It can be easy to blame 388 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: Hans Christian Anderson for his outrageous behavior here, and like 389 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: we said, he's not blameless. I mean, he did invite himself, 390 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: he stayed too long, he's throwing tantrums, he expecting things 391 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: that he maybe shouldn't have expected. And Retigliano also calls 392 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: Anderson quote insensitively sensitive, which can be real frustrating. I mean, 393 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: you know, he does seem like he's very wrapped up 394 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: in his own emotions and it can't see how they 395 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: affect other people. Maybe, but if we look a little 396 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: closer and examined Charles Dickens's own behavior, it really seems 397 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: like there was a lot more going on than just 398 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: a bad house guest. Jens Anderson writes in Hans's biography 399 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: that quote the Dickens family had always represented something of 400 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: a Victorian ideal that became known around the world. I mean, 401 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: this guy had a serious reputation, right. This is Charles Dickens. 402 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: He infected Christmas. Is the guy who gave us Bob 403 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: Cratchett and Oliver Twist and Nicholas Nickleby. I mean, these 404 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: are pretty relatable and virtuous heroes. By in Marge and 405 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: everybody saw Charles Dickens as Mr Perfect. You know, he 406 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: was a reflection of his work. But during Anderson's stay 407 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: there in eighteen fifty seven, there was actually a lot 408 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: of family drama going on in the background. Things weren't 409 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: so perfect after all. You see. Charles Dickens had met 410 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: his wife Catherine in eighteen thirty four, and they married 411 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: quickly and for a while they were a super happy couple. 412 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: Dickens wrote during period of their early marriage that even 413 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: if he became rich and famous, he would never be 414 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: as happy as he was with his wife in their 415 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: small flat in Bloomsbury. Oh, Bloomsbury, can we capture the 416 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: magic game? You go back again and have a co 417 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 1: back to blooms three. But over the years, Charles started 418 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: to resent Catherine and her lack of energy, and he 419 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: found her to be an incompetent mother and housekeeper. He 420 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: even blamed her for their ten children, saying he wanted 421 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 1: to stop after four. I'm sorry, Dickens. Why to keep 422 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: your dick into yourself if you don't want any more kids? 423 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: You know how it works. I gotta maybe a little 424 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: education for Charles Dickens on how he ended up with 425 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: ten kids. Okay, also her lack of energy. She had 426 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: ten kids. University of York says that letters were recently 427 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: discovered that suggested Dickens actually tried to bend the law 428 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: to have Catherine committed to a lunatic asylum to get 429 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: her out of his hair. Unbelievable move from Charles missed 430 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: perfect Dickens. Fortunately, a doctor named Thomas Took found that 431 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: there was no evidence that she suffered from a mental disorder, 432 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: and Dickens was so powerful at the time that Professor 433 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: John Bowen says, it was really courageous of two to 434 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: stand up for Catherine and say no, your wife is 435 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: not insane, because this is Unfortunately, I don't think it 436 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: was common, but it was certainly something that was done 437 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: more than once. Yeah, he mentioned. Yeah, he mentions that 438 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: the laws were ambiguous enough that this could happen. And honestly, 439 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: the fact that Charles couldn't get it done was owed 440 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: almost entirely to Took by stepping in and saying, I 441 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 1: just I just can't let this one slide. Well, this 442 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: is how you get those funny Well they're funny today, 443 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: they're really not funny in context, but those funny lists 444 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: of how reasons people were put in asylums from back 445 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: in their women specifically and it's stuff like, I mean, 446 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: like she's tired, or like she had an orgasm once 447 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: or whatever. Like it's just like the most ridiculous ship. 448 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: She told me she had a bad day once, outrageous. 449 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: Something must be terribly wrong with her brain now. Professor 450 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: John Bowen writes, quote, it's a gas lighting story, manipulating 451 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: someone into doubting their own sanity. And it's also a 452 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: story about professionals standing up against the rich and powerful. 453 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,959 Speaker 1: Big ups to Thomas too. Yeah, all of this drama 454 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: between them was reaching ahead in eighteen fifty seven when Mr. 455 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,719 Speaker 1: Fairy Tales showed up on Dickens doorstep. Charles at this 456 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: point was already trying to scheme his way out of 457 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: his own marriage. Plus he had just gotten a bunch 458 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: of bad reviews on his serial Little Dorit, and money 459 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: was actually kind of tight for them, which he also 460 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: blamed his wife for sounds a lot like throwing a 461 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 1: little temper tangion. But in addition to those personal problems, 462 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: he was also dealing with this recently deceased friend of 463 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: his and the play that he was putting on in 464 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: his honor. Then, to make matters worse, there was an 465 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: actress in that play. Her name was Nellie Turning, and 466 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: of course Dickens fell head over heels in love with 467 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 1: this girl. I mean, he was forty five and rich 468 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: and powerful and producing a play, and she was an 469 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: eighteen year old actress. So you know, Taylor as old 470 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: as plays. I guess now it's Victorian England and divorce. 471 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: Obviously there's a crazy idea, especially for someone as prominent 472 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: as Charles Dickens. Right, so he wasn't quite sure how 473 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: to get away from his wife that he could hang 474 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: out with his actress instead without it being a whole 475 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: big scandal, but he was definitely trying to. He wrote 476 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: in a letter to a friend of his at the time, quote, Paul, 477 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: Catherine and I are not made for each other. What 478 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: is now befalling? I have seen steadily coming every year 479 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: she gets older. I don't know why she's no longer 480 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: made for me. Ever since I noticed she wasn't a 481 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: teenager anymore, I've seen this coming. I just couldn't bring 482 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,239 Speaker 1: myself to touch her body. I love that that like 483 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: I've been seeing the steadily coming. Like you know, maybe 484 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: no one else expected it. When I have repeated several 485 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: times that I want her out of love my life 486 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: and tried to have it committed to an insane asylum. 487 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: But actually, I think this has been coming for a 488 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: while now. Surprisingly enough, that's somehow speculated that there was 489 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: an affair between Dickens and Nelly at this time, like 490 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: physical affair, but if there was, it was kept very quiet, 491 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: right right, Uh, speculation station. I mean, Hans Christian Anderson 492 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: is hanging out with them, and Dickens is probably worried 493 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: that he's going to blow the whole thing up, right, 494 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,479 Speaker 1: I don't know. Something about your nonsense is gonna end up. 495 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: A curtain is gonna get pulled down, and I'm going 496 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: to be caught red handed with my something somehow. I 497 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: know you're going to ruin this for me. Where's the 498 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: Dickens fars? He could have written out of this at 499 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: any rate. Anderson seemed to be totally oblivious to this 500 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: Dickens family feud while he was there in eighteen fifty seven, 501 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: and only seemed to learn about their situation a year 502 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: after he stayed with them. But the fallout would hit 503 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: the obliviously sweet Danish author pretty hard, and we will 504 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: hear more about that right after this. Welcome back to 505 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: the show everybody. Now, Over the years after Anderson's visit, 506 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: he had sent Dickens a few more packages, you know, 507 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: copies of his books with heartwarming handwritten dedications inside, but 508 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: Dickens neither read them nor responded. Do you think he 509 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: just got him and threw him in a fire, like 510 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: he didn't even open them? That would be sad. Anderson 511 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: Yen's rights was quite simply frozen out, and despite knowing 512 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: his behavior was not the best, Hans was really surprised 513 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: to be completely ignored by this guy that he thought 514 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: of as a hero and a friend. But as we said, 515 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: Dickens was going through his own stuff at the time. 516 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: Um he did separate from his wife Katherine officially, although 517 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: it was kept quiet and while the exact causes unknown, 518 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: rumors swirled around Victorian England about who and what and why, 519 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: and lots of people had their own version of the story. 520 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: It's almost as if all these Victorian British folks were 521 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: like wound up so tight and can't share anything or 522 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: say anything, are desperately thirsty for rumors to spread around 523 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: and will go absolutely insane, like it's a drop of 524 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: blood and a shark tank. They hear the slightest thing 525 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: they go running into Mary. Did you hear Charles had 526 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: an emotion today? By God call the Queen. It's all 527 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: over the papers. Well way back in the day when 528 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: Charles and Catherine were first courting each other before they marriage, 529 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: Catherine's little sister, Mary Hogarth was always hanging around with them, 530 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: and when Charles and Catherine got married, Mary came to 531 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: live with them. This is super strange in Victorian England 532 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: for a young single teenage girl to come live with 533 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: a newlywed couple, like kind of cramped their style. That 534 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: wasn't good for anyone, kind of strange. But she really 535 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: helped out around the house. They both loved having her there, 536 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: especially when Catherine got pregnant for the first time and 537 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens really took a shine to young Mary. He 538 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: called her quote an intimate friend, a privileged sister, and 539 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: a domestic companion. Philip Allingham of lake Head University says 540 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: that Dickens was truly obsessed with her and used her 541 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: as inspiration for some of his characters, such as Rosemaylie 542 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: and Oliver Twist, Kate and Nicholas Nickleby, and Agnes In 543 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: David Copperfield, which are all, you know, some of his 544 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: strongest female characters his works. Dickens even trusted Mary's opinion 545 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: of his writing more than his wife Katherine's, as ailing him, 546 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: writes quote, trusting that her observations and reactions represented those 547 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: of the common reader, unlike Catherine, who was just my wife, 548 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: just so lazy, sitting around having six more kids. And 549 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: I asked for I mean, but maybe that wasn't really 550 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: a dig. Like maybe he's like, well, you're your classy 551 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: lady or whatever. Mary's like younger, she's you know, you know, 552 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: represents the regular folk or something. But when Mary was 553 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: only seventeen, and after living with them for only a year, 554 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: she died suddenly from unknown causes, probably heart failure stroke. 555 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: Dickens wrote, quote, she died in my arms, and the 556 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: very last words she whispered were of me. He took 557 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: a ring from her finger, and he wore it for 558 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: the rest of his life. He visited her graves so 559 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: often that other visitors in the cemetery thought he was 560 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: her actual brother. There is tons of research out there 561 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: on just how big of an impact Mary Hogarth had 562 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: on dickens writings and characters throughout his life because she 563 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: was definitely a number one influence on him going forward. Man. Yeah, 564 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: they even named their first daughter Mary, apparently at his insistence. Yeah. Um, 565 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: I also like that, you know, she died in my arms. 566 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: In her very last words she whispered aware of me, 567 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: which you know according to him. But also I think 568 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: Ailingham writes like, given Charles Dickens kind of ego centric city, 569 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be surprising if her last words were of him, 570 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: because he probably made every conversation about himself, even with 571 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: someone who's dying, And he said, Mary, don't leave me. 572 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: Don't you know what that would do to me? She's like, 573 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: You'll be all right, Mary, Mary, are you okay? Can 574 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: you tell me what you think of this paragraph here 575 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: before you go quick of it? And look Throughout dickens life, 576 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: it was very off and young women that intrigued him 577 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: and ended up being the model for characters in his books. 578 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: We won't get into all of them, but there was 579 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: a number of teenage girls that he kind of had 580 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 1: obsessions with, no matter how much older he got. Very um, 581 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,240 Speaker 1: very Matthew McConaughey confused, Right, That's what I love about 582 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: influences on my work, I keep getting older, they stay 583 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,280 Speaker 1: the same age. But historian Michael Slater writes that dickens 584 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: own wife, Catherine, the woman he loved, the woman he married, 585 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: the woman who birthed ten children with him, the woman 586 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: he lived with for twenty two years. Quote, appears to 587 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: have had less impact on his deepest imagination and art 588 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: than any of the other women who hold an important 589 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: place in his emotional history. So she's just not not 590 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: worthy of inspiring him somehow. Kind of wonder what then 591 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: got them together or if it was just the very 592 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: fact that she was his wife that made him think, 593 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: you know, oh, well, no, you're not that kind of special, 594 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: You're not that kind of woman. You're just a wife. Yes, 595 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: I was about to say, a wife and mother, not mysterious, 596 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: not exciting maybe, or that like he liked these attachments 597 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: that couldn't lead to something necessarily like this, like his 598 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: wife's sister or something. It gave him maybe that energy 599 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: or something, and made him imagine things that weren't real. 600 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: You know, where's Catherine's real? She's right there. He can 601 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: sleep at her any time, like there's no mystery to 602 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: her for him, which says to me that he doesn't. 603 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: Maybe didn't explore her very much because I bet she 604 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 1: had more going on her brain than he was given 605 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: her credit for. But who knows, Maybe she's a big dummy. 606 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, at some point they fell 607 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: in love right and got right. She had something going 608 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: for maybe her worst, the worst thing she could have done, 609 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: and say yes. If she had never said yes, he 610 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: would be obsessed with his whole life. Maybe. But we 611 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: can see that pattern continue because twenty years after Mary's death, 612 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,839 Speaker 1: this eighteen year old actress Nellie turn In was now 613 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens new focus and inspiration, and his attention drifted 614 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,240 Speaker 1: even further from his wife at this point. In eighteen 615 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 1: fifty eight, the year after Anderson left Gad's Hill in tears, 616 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 1: Charles and Katherine Dickens separated. Now we don't know exactly why, 617 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: but the main rumor is that one day Katherine got 618 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: a little package in the mail and she opened it 619 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: up and what was inside but a beautiful bracelet thank 620 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 1: you so much, with a note for the teenage actress 621 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: Nellie Turning what the jeweler had accidentally delivered it to 622 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: the wrong lady Oopsie doodle, which I mean in the 623 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 1: jeweler's defense, Charles Dickens says, I bought this beautiful bracelet 624 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: send it to my to my lover. He's like, oh yeah, 625 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: I know her. I'll bring it by. Everyone knows Katherine. 626 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: Isn't this a plot in love? Actually? Oh god, I 627 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: supposedly this is just the nail in the coffin for Katherine, 628 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: who like just couldn't take it anymore. You know, you 629 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: could try to put me in an asylum, but this 630 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: is too far, sir. Bracelet bracelet, how dare you throw out? Also, 631 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: Catherine Dickens uh famously had this badass snake bracelet. It's 632 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: like in a museum in England somewhere. I saw some 633 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 1: pictures of it. But it's awesome, nice. Yeah, obviously it's 634 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: Victorian England. Their separation was kept as quiet as possible, 635 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,800 Speaker 1: but rumors started to circulate the Dickens and turn in 636 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: We're having an affair, which Dickens ardently denied, saying, quote, 637 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: all the lately whispered rumors are abominably false. Whosoever repeats 638 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: them after this denial will lie as wilfully as foully 639 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: as it is possible for any false witness to lie 640 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: before heaven enough, what a claim is this some of 641 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: that flourish that means insincerity that we heard about earlier, 642 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: because that's what it sounds like to me. He's a 643 00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: little a little too upset. It is just to come 644 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: out and say it didn't happen. And now that I've 645 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: said that, if you say it did happen, you're obviously 646 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: lying because I already said it didn't. Oh well, it's 647 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: not the full proof defense. Thanking everybody. You're definitely the 648 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: most reliable narrator of your own life. Now, this drama 649 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 1: persisted for years because, of course things moved more slowly 650 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,320 Speaker 1: back then. It took a couple of weeks to reach 651 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: a publication, right. But meanwhile, in eighteen sixties, so just 652 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:31,240 Speaker 1: about two years after the separation, sele old Hans Christian 653 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: Anderson published a book in Germany about his travels, and 654 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: it was called from de Heart and the World and Duped. 655 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: And this book included a little story titled a Visit 656 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: with Charles Dickens. Biographer YenS Anderson calls the writing quote 657 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: a naive and sentimental portrait of his visit with Charles 658 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: Dickens that was just about oh that the happy time 659 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: that he had with all this big, happy family and 660 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 1: jolly old England. But it's hard to say if Hans 661 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: was just, you know, obliviously naive about his time there, 662 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: or if he had deliberately fictionalized this story as sort 663 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: of like a name droppy tale about how he and 664 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: one of the world's most famous authors spent a lovely 665 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,399 Speaker 1: summer together and he laughed at my jokes, yes, and 666 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 1: he loved me. One time he took me into dinner 667 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: on his arm, right handsome. So it's just kind of 668 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: weird behavior from Hans to publish this story again. Is 669 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: he making it all up? Or is he just oblivious? 670 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 1: And it's not unlike Hans to completely miss the point 671 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: that he was the one who made Charles Dickens hate 672 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: him right, I mean again, we know that he doesn't 673 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: exactly pick up on social cues, but he also spent 674 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: the rest of his life really confused as to why 675 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: Dickens never talked to him again. Well, the story about 676 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: his time at Dickens house went far and wide, and 677 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: the European press and by now even the Americans we're 678 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: all drooling over this selacious Dickens drama of his affair 679 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: with a young actress. So when this hunky dory story 680 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,800 Speaker 1: about the idyllic time Anderson had with the beautiful Dickens 681 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: family who never argued how a single problem when anyone 682 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: came out, it just kind of added fuel to the fire. 683 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: The contrast between these two stories, right, yeah, yeah, it 684 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,720 Speaker 1: was like this, like, oh, perfect time with a perfect family, 685 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: and everyone's like comparing, contrasting with the next column over, 686 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: which is like Dickens found too in Nellie's arms. Now, 687 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: what's weirder still is that Hans Anderson definitely knew by 688 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 1: this point that things were not going great for the 689 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,439 Speaker 1: Dickens family. In fact, some had even tried to pin 690 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 1: the blame on him for the Dickens marriage falling apart. 691 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,919 Speaker 1: The novelist bs Ingeman wrote, quote, I suppose I ought 692 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: not to say this, but Dickens and his wife lived 693 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: together just fine until Anderson came to visit. Anderson is 694 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: supposed to be so harmless, yet he's quite awful. He's 695 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 1: caused thousands of troubles with women. Whenever he stays here, 696 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,759 Speaker 1: I fear for my wife. It will end with her 697 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 1: running off with him. Come here, Lucy, let me hold 698 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: onto you this mc sweeney's article, Christian Anderson like these 699 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: were mostly silly accusations. I mean that the timing was 700 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: kind of odd. But as soon as Anderson left this 701 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: this famous visit, Dickens marriage fall fell apart. But either way, 702 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: the association between Anderson and their separation was just locked in. 703 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: Everyone thought those two things happened concurrently, right, But Anderson 704 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,240 Speaker 1: clearly must have been aware that there was some drama 705 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 1: going on while he was there, because later his publisher 706 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 1: even wrote him a letter in which he says that 707 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens head grated himself with this alleged affair. And 708 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,760 Speaker 1: Hans himself wrote a letter to his old buddy Edward 709 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: Colin we learned about in the previous episode, and he 710 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: told him quote, I have much to tell you and 711 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: your wife about Dickens and his family life. I don't 712 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: care to put what is holy private on paper. You 713 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: never know what might be printed over the course of time. 714 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: So he straight up knew there was some dirty details 715 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,359 Speaker 1: going around, and to that point, Charles Dickens himself was 716 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:34,840 Speaker 1: extremely private. In fact, he notoriously burned all of his letters. 717 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: On the other hand, Hans Christian Anderson actually specifically requested 718 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: that all of his letters be published after he died, 719 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: so a very different approaches to what you know privacy 720 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 1: meant to the two of them. Right, So, not only 721 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: had Hans Christian Andersen barged in on dickens home and 722 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: disrupted his family at a very difficult time, he then 723 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: went back and like put his whole family unblast in 724 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: this like weird idealized fiction about his time there. So 725 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 1: obviously Charles Dickens was extremely offended, like about this, He's like, 726 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: you can't just go out and talk about your time 727 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: in my personal private home. Published that, I mean, like literally, 728 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: this story was huge and royals were reading it in 729 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,280 Speaker 1: different countries all over Europe. So that kind of explains 730 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 1: to me why Dickens never wanted to talk to him again. 731 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,400 Speaker 1: I could see that. I could see that, and he's like, 732 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: that was not anybody's business. But also Anderson wrote the 733 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: most lovely things about Katherine Dickens. He said she had 734 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: quote big gentle eyes and a good natured smile, and 735 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 1: he repeatedly compared her to dickens best female characters in 736 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 1: his novels, like Agnes in David Copperfield, which we know 737 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,840 Speaker 1: Dickens based on Katherine's little sister Mary and not Katherine herself. 738 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 1: That must have really got under his skin. No, not her, 739 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 1: so is I didn't piss Charles off enough. It also 740 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,959 Speaker 1: screwed up his divorce proceedings because he's in court trying 741 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,320 Speaker 1: to paint Katherine as this incompetent wife and mother I 742 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 1: meeting while there's a story going around, Oh, she's just 743 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:18,520 Speaker 1: the loveliest lady, her kids lover, everything's great. Damn, Dickens 744 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: was already cutting his actual friends out of his life 745 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: for siding with Katherine and his separation. So it's really 746 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,880 Speaker 1: no wonder that he spent the rest of his life 747 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:32,120 Speaker 1: completely ignoring the Danish children's author that he never really 748 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,200 Speaker 1: wanted to get to know in the first place. You 749 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: wonder if Katherine's lawyers loved that piece be published. It 750 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,840 Speaker 1: was like, oh, she's an incompetent mother hall well Hans 751 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,560 Speaker 1: Christian Anderson says, she's the bomb exhibit A. Yes. Now, 752 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,480 Speaker 1: the English themselves were so thirsty for this drama that 753 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: Anderson's book was, as Youngs calls it, quote like manna 754 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,359 Speaker 1: from heaven, Like, oh my god, you couldn't have asked 755 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 1: for a better book. Drop during this wars right his 756 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: Dickens family story was published in the magazine Bent Liz 757 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 1: Miscellany with an editorial attach that basically was saying, like, 758 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,319 Speaker 1: oh wow, very bizarre that Dickens says his wife is 759 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 1: such a monster, while Anderson is out here saying what 760 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,720 Speaker 1: a lovely family they are. But they also said, well, also, 761 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: Hans Christian Anderson sucks because how dare he spilled the 762 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,799 Speaker 1: tea on this family's private life? Now we have no 763 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,919 Speaker 1: choice but to publish. I love that, Like, oh look 764 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: at all these dirty details, and how dare you share 765 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,360 Speaker 1: them with us? Christian Anderson? Anyway, here they are published 766 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,000 Speaker 1: in our magazine across the world. You're running five thousand 767 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,839 Speaker 1: copies of them right now. It's almost like that meme 768 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,800 Speaker 1: with Mac from Always Sunny. He's like, oh my god, 769 00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:52,120 Speaker 1: that's disgusting. Where where Hans Christian Anderson? How dare you 770 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,840 Speaker 1: say these things? Can we get that in writing? Please? Well? 771 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: During a five month trip across Switzerland and Germany, Anderson 772 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,520 Speaker 1: spoke about and did readings from a visit with Charles Dickens. 773 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,960 Speaker 1: But he was also really moby around this time. He 774 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: wrote quote, I am dejected. I wish to die and 775 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,279 Speaker 1: yet to live. I have no desire to be here 776 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: at home, and yet I don't feel happy anywhere else. 777 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,799 Speaker 1: I feel as if I had thrown myself into the 778 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: sea to let the waves carry me once again. They 779 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: have carried me back to my own shores. Why I 780 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,120 Speaker 1: feel that that is so relatable. That's one of my 781 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,280 Speaker 1: favorite quotes of his. He's just like, I'm not happy 782 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,399 Speaker 1: at home, but I don't want to leave. I want 783 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,359 Speaker 1: to die, but I don't want to be dead, right, 784 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: I just want to be dead for like a couple 785 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: of days. I definitely feel that like we should have 786 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,719 Speaker 1: a day, or we could just be suspended in like 787 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 1: an another dimension or something, or nothing we do or 788 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: same matters and nothing has any effect on us. We 789 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: have effect on nothing. Yeah, if only there was like 790 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,280 Speaker 1: a one to two year period where no one required 791 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,439 Speaker 1: anything of me and I could just stay at home, 792 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: um and not associate with anyone, Surely I'd get a 793 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,439 Speaker 1: lot of work done in that time. Right, I don't 794 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: count it because I feel like we were still had 795 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,399 Speaker 1: a lot of effectations and that was very stressful time. 796 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,480 Speaker 1: It was not a free time. Then, Nellie turn In 797 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: and Charles Dickens never married, nor were they public about 798 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: their affair, but she served as inspiration for characters like 799 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: Lucy Manette in A Tale of Two Cities and a 800 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 1: Stell Havisham in Great Expectations. There's not much evidence of 801 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 1: their affair, as they were both careful not to document it, 802 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,879 Speaker 1: and like we said, Dickens was a notorious letter burner, 803 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,840 Speaker 1: so if he did write or anything got consigned to 804 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,960 Speaker 1: the flame. But when he died in eighteen seventy, Dickens 805 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,720 Speaker 1: left Nellie turn In one thousand pounds, which is worth 806 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:56,840 Speaker 1: about a hundred and seventy thousand U S. Dollars today, 807 00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,560 Speaker 1: not shabby. He also gave her a trust fund income 808 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,880 Speaker 1: to ensure that she would never have to work again. 809 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,560 Speaker 1: Can I please have a short affair with a guy 810 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,480 Speaker 1: who decides to set me up on the line. But 811 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 1: Charles dickens death was even harder on Hans Christian Anderson. 812 00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,200 Speaker 1: He wrote in his diary quote on the evening of 813 00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:25,560 Speaker 1: the ninth Charles Dickens died, as I read in tonight's newspaper. 814 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,879 Speaker 1: So we will never meet again on this earth, nor 815 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,319 Speaker 1: speak to each other. I won't receive an explanation from 816 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,320 Speaker 1: him as to why he never answered my later letters, 817 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,120 Speaker 1: which again is kind of weird that Charles Dickens died 818 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,719 Speaker 1: and Hans Christian Andersen's first thing is like, well, now 819 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:48,600 Speaker 1: he's never going to answer my question. They definitely are. 820 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,799 Speaker 1: That's what's so weird about these two. I mean, I 821 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,600 Speaker 1: really think there should be like, uh Will Ferrell John 822 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,000 Speaker 1: c Riley comedy about the two of them, because there's 823 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,680 Speaker 1: such an odd or it feels like Tommy Boy or 824 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 1: something where you've got this like sweet dope and this 825 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:11,240 Speaker 1: like kind of hardened intellectual that just can't get along. 826 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,480 Speaker 1: But the dope is so like loving. He's like I 827 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,520 Speaker 1: just want us to be best friends forever, and the 828 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,360 Speaker 1: other guys like I don't have time for you. I'm busy, 829 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,000 Speaker 1: I have work, you know. Uh, there's just such a 830 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,320 Speaker 1: story there. But yeah, no, it's not like cons Christian 831 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,000 Speaker 1: Anderson wasn't the most annoying guy in the world during 832 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 1: all this. I think it would be very hard to 833 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,880 Speaker 1: be friends with. Yeah, yeah, I mean look at the 834 00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,320 Speaker 1: last story, like he's just his emotions are so intense 835 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:42,839 Speaker 1: and he doesn't understand them himself. So if he likes you, 836 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,759 Speaker 1: I don't think he knows the difference between like and love. 837 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,600 Speaker 1: You know, I think it once he like really feels 838 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,720 Speaker 1: feelings for someone in any way. He's like, oh my god, 839 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 1: I need this all the time. Never leave my side. 840 00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,680 Speaker 1: We're destined to be together forever. And you're like, well, 841 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:01,839 Speaker 1: how about we're we just like each other and we're 842 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,320 Speaker 1: just friends. We just have a good time, right or 843 00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,000 Speaker 1: all right, fine, do you want to have sex? And 844 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,000 Speaker 1: he's like, disgusting, how dare you suggest such a thing? 845 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to go home and plus uh so super 846 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,120 Speaker 1: just just a weird, bizarre relationship between the two of them. 847 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you can see the insensitively sensitive is a 848 00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,600 Speaker 1: good description because he was just so wrapped up in 849 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,439 Speaker 1: his own feeling and he's like, doesn't seem to care 850 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,839 Speaker 1: how they affect other people or like I you know, 851 00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:38,719 Speaker 1: he's not self reflective enough to say, oh, I am 852 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:43,360 Speaker 1: imposing my sensitivities onto people in places where it's not 853 00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,960 Speaker 1: appropriate and I need to learn how to like rein 854 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,480 Speaker 1: it in save it for a friend or a private 855 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,520 Speaker 1: space or whatever, because it's just not it's just like 856 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,920 Speaker 1: ricocheting off other people and having problems. It's the perfect 857 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:02,080 Speaker 1: storm of incompatibilities because obviously Dick in this Victorian British 858 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:07,560 Speaker 1: society is really bad being direct and um thinks that, well, 859 00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,120 Speaker 1: obviously you're going to pick up on my very subtle 860 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:15,239 Speaker 1: suggestions and gestures. Right. And on the other hand, you've 861 00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:19,240 Speaker 1: got a guy who's, like we said, very childish, needs 862 00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:20,879 Speaker 1: things kind of spelled out for and to begin with, 863 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,840 Speaker 1: but also always seems to kind of have his fingers 864 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:26,879 Speaker 1: in his ears, like la la la, I didn't hear 865 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,479 Speaker 1: the part that I should have heard. So between those 866 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,919 Speaker 1: two things, there was never going to be a clear 867 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,880 Speaker 1: line of communication between the two of them, right, and 868 00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:40,239 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens, he was just too cool, you know. In 869 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,600 Speaker 1: Hans eyes, he's like, I have to be around you 870 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,319 Speaker 1: all the time, um, to the point where he even 871 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,440 Speaker 1: ignored the fact that this guy was a dick was 872 00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,879 Speaker 1: an asshole. He's being a jerk. Yeah, because see why 873 00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,600 Speaker 1: Jenny lynd was maybe the most successful because she is 874 00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,799 Speaker 1: very like, you're my brother, we are as simples. I 875 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:06,800 Speaker 1: love you like a brother, hey, brother. She really hammered 876 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,920 Speaker 1: at home for him, true boy, Yeah, I mean Jenny 877 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,480 Speaker 1: Lynde Edward Collins and even some stories we'll get into 878 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,480 Speaker 1: in the next Hans Christian Anderson episode, a lot of 879 00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,240 Speaker 1: them just very indirect with him. Um, but he seemed 880 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,560 Speaker 1: like a guy that it was hard to be direct with. Yeah, 881 00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,600 Speaker 1: I see that. So I'm gonna quickly say another thank 882 00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,160 Speaker 1: you to Arvid Gomez for this suggestion because it was awesome. 883 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,680 Speaker 1: But also when he reached out about it, he mentioned 884 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,840 Speaker 1: this like game that someone had made about Hans Christian Anderson. 885 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:38,279 Speaker 1: And what was so funny about that is that I 886 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,320 Speaker 1: had already seen that on my Twitter and I saved 887 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,560 Speaker 1: it so to play one day maybe, um, And so 888 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,759 Speaker 1: if you're interested in playing this game, please check it out. Um. 889 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,920 Speaker 1: It's someone on Twitter named Oliver dark sheer at Death 890 00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:56,239 Speaker 1: by Badger. He made a like a tabletop RPG, like 891 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,680 Speaker 1: a Dungeons and Dragons kind of game where you trit 892 00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,720 Speaker 1: your Charles Dickens and you're trying desperately to get Hans 893 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,960 Speaker 1: Christian Anderson out of your house. And it is so funny, 894 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,600 Speaker 1: like the options are great. So anyway, check that out. 895 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:12,160 Speaker 1: It's super super fun. Now. Look, like we said before, 896 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,840 Speaker 1: there's just so much more to tell about Hans Christian Anderson. 897 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,719 Speaker 1: I mean, I never dreamed in a million years that 898 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,719 Speaker 1: we look into this story and find so many love 899 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,840 Speaker 1: stories for a guy who never even had sex his 900 00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,040 Speaker 1: whole life. But we've got to come back to it 901 00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,640 Speaker 1: because like, for example, this guy was paraded around Paris 902 00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:33,520 Speaker 1: by authors like Balzac and Alexandre Dumat and even Victor Hugo, 903 00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:35,680 Speaker 1: and all these guys were out there just trying to 904 00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,319 Speaker 1: get him laid. Amazing Victor Hugoes like, you've never done 905 00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:43,120 Speaker 1: what I've done it eighteen times today when we talked 906 00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,959 Speaker 1: in our show before about how these this era, these 907 00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,799 Speaker 1: authors were like up to their faces in boobies, right, 908 00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:54,000 Speaker 1: like they were always getting laid. So Hans Christian Anderson 909 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,200 Speaker 1: definitely the standout here. Uh. He also fell in love 910 00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,960 Speaker 1: with the sister of a friend of his who fell 911 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,799 Speaker 1: in love back with him, but she was already engaged, 912 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,320 Speaker 1: so that wasn't gonna work out. And then he also 913 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,280 Speaker 1: loved this grand duke. They had a really passionate story 914 00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,960 Speaker 1: together that ended in war, basically is what separated them. 915 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,880 Speaker 1: He also fell in love with this dancer who maybe 916 00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,719 Speaker 1: loved him back, We're not really sure. And then a 917 00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,040 Speaker 1: young friend of his who had a very similar end 918 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,480 Speaker 1: to Edward Colin as where you know, he just never 919 00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,560 Speaker 1: really was straightforward with Hans that I don't like you 920 00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,319 Speaker 1: like that, but I love you as a friend. So 921 00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,480 Speaker 1: there's just so much more to tell. Of course, Hans 922 00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,920 Speaker 1: was totally Hans about it every single time. We're just 923 00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,080 Speaker 1: gonna have to get into all that in our next episode. 924 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,720 Speaker 1: Just gonna have to get a hanstall on all that. Wow, 925 00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,879 Speaker 1: I tried. I don't think you did. It was an 926 00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:53,520 Speaker 1: attempt like if we were Hans, Hansta like a hand 927 00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,160 Speaker 1: like we're trying to get a handle on that. We're 928 00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,759 Speaker 1: going to get a handle on that. Okay, if we 929 00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:01,040 Speaker 1: were doing the composer handel, damn, it would be great. 930 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,280 Speaker 1: All right. I'll save it for if there's any story 931 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,680 Speaker 1: in Handle's now. But I'm super excited to get more 932 00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,440 Speaker 1: into Hans Christian Anderson. Thank you again, Arvid for sending 933 00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,080 Speaker 1: him our way, because clearly a rich will to draw from. 934 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,400 Speaker 1: I know, I saw a lifelong virgin and thought there 935 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't be much to say, and we've got three episodes 936 00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:24,120 Speaker 1: that it's so stay tuned. I hope everyone enjoys their holidays, 937 00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,440 Speaker 1: but could just go forth and be merry whatever you're 938 00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,000 Speaker 1: doing this week? Yeah, and We hope you enjoyed this episode, 939 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,799 Speaker 1: as we always do, we love hearing from you. Reach 940 00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,759 Speaker 1: out to us ridick Romance at gmail dot com. That's right. 941 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,240 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter and Instagram. I myself 942 00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:42,800 Speaker 1: am at Oh great, it's Eli. I'm at Dianamite Boom 943 00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,200 Speaker 1: and the show is at ridic Romance and we will 944 00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:50,040 Speaker 1: see you next time. Love you five, so long, friends, 945 00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,800 Speaker 1: It's time to go. Thanks so listening to our show, 946 00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,480 Speaker 1: tell your friend's names, uncle's and this to listen to 947 00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,000 Speaker 1: a show ridiculous. Well this