1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or expecting parent. Are you 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: wondering what can I give them as a gift. Don't 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: give them another onesie, don't give them a plastic toy 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: or god forbid, a toy gun that's just gonna end 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: up in the garage. Give them something that matters, and 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: what matters the most is protecting their child. What do 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: you love most in the world your children? What will 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: you do to protect them anything. I sat down with 9 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: the smartest people I know in the world on matters 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: of child's safety, finding missing children, fighting back against predators, 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: and what I learned is so important, powerful and information 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: so critical. I want you to have it. I want 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 1: them to have it. Go to crime stops here dot 14 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: com for a five part series with action information that 15 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: you can use to change your life and protect your child. 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: Payment starting six. Give that as a gift, not another 17 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: one es. Find out how to protect your child when 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: you're out of the mall or the store, the grocery, 19 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: in the parking lot, at home. Find out about protection 20 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online. I'd rather have that 21 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: any day of the week than a plastic toy our 22 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: God forbid a toy gun, Join Justice Nation, go to 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: crime Stops here dot com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 24 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: Monday morning, November and approximately six am, at Rosewood Mobile 25 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: Home Park located at thirty five elisabat Town Road, Lot 26 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: thirty nine, a witness saw a male's rest in all 27 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,279 Speaker 1: black and we're in a yelled Bandanna approached Miss Hannah 28 00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: Noella Agailor, age thirteen, and forced her into a green 29 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and two Ford expedition and he distubbed Vihre 30 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: Colen's row overway with Miss Angler in the vehicle. Miss 31 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: Angler has been waiting on families to come out of 32 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: the resident to take her to school at the Lumberton 33 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: Junior High School, where she is in the eighth grade. 34 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: Every parent's worst a nightmare has come true in North 35 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: Carolina as the FBI joins in the desperate search for 36 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: a little girl kidnapped outside her home by a man 37 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: wearing a bandana. Witnesses saw her being forced into the 38 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: back of an s u V. Right now, the family 39 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: in anguish, Please help us find Hania. I Meanancy Grace. 40 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 41 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: This is happening. Now take a listen to Lumberton Police 42 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: Chief Michael McNeil. The suspect then drove the two thousand 43 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: and two for the expedition bearing the tag South Carolina 44 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: tag nor we M SAM eight four out of the 45 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: neighborhood and was last seen turning left onto the Elizabethtown Road. 46 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: At this time, the investigators are an interviewer and witnesses 47 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: family and friends, as well as conducting a door to 48 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: door canvas in the neighborhood and check in area of 49 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: surveillances to find out informational ten. As you hear the 50 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: police chief telling us Hanya was forced into a stolen 51 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: green two thousand to suv with South Carolina license plate 52 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: in Nancy W West S South nine eight four, n 53 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: W S nine eight four. To all of you on 54 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: the roads right now, we are looking for a stolen 55 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: green two thousand two SUV with South Carolina license plates 56 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: in Nancy W West s South nine eight four. As 57 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: we all know, every every hour that passes makes it 58 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: less likely Hanya will be found alive. Straight out to 59 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: crime online dot Com investigative reporter John Limley, John, what happened? 60 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: Start at the beginning, otherwise and unremarkable morning for this 61 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: family eighth grader Hanya Aguilar. It's just before seven o'clock, 62 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: about sixty five, and it appears she might have been 63 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: pushing right there, right there. Vincent Hill, cop turned p I, 64 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: author of playbook to Murder on Amazon Creator podcast Fall 65 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: of a Titan. Vincent Hill, you're the former cop. I mean, 66 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: you just don't expect a kidnapping at seven o'clock in 67 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: the morning. Well, Nancy, you and I both know that 68 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: there's no perfect time for a crime. Anything can happen 69 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: at any time, and when you're looking for a young, 70 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: vulnerable victim, that's the perfect time to go out and 71 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: do this because you know, these young people are getting 72 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: ready to go to school. So I think this person 73 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: was lying in wait to do exactly what they did, 74 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: you know. Vincent Hill joining me along with Dr Brian Russell, 75 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: psychologist and lawyer and host of investigation Discoveries hit series 76 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: Fatal Vows Kathleen Murphy. Right now, North Carolina family lawyer 77 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: John Limley reporting with Crime online dot Com. Jackie Howard 78 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: in the studio, Alan Duke joining me in l A. 79 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: You know, uh, Alan, you and I, Jackie, We've all 80 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: gotten children ready for school. It's a mad dash every morning, 81 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: no matter how much she planned out. How often have 82 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: I sent the twins to go get in the minivan 83 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: while I'm finishing up and locking the door and getting 84 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: their jackets or whatever I have to take to the car, 85 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: they send this little girl out, They're coming to get her. 86 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 1: She's waiting for them to come take her to school, 87 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: and this SUV just happens to pull up right then. 88 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, seven o'clock in the morning. Uh, in oh, 89 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: that guy knew her schedule. I guarantee you as somebody 90 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: in that community, Brian Russell, know her schedule. But statistically, 91 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: it is much more likely that the person had known 92 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: or at least had some kind of prior contact with her, 93 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: than that the person was just sort of looking for 94 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: any random girl and happy to see her and thought, Okay, 95 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna abduct this girl. I'm with you on that. 96 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: I agree, Dr Brian Russell. Kathleen Murphy, family lawyer, I 97 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: know where your mind races immediately custodial issues. Is there 98 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: a non custodial parent that would come take the child. 99 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: The answer to that, Kathleen Murphy, because you've dealt with 100 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: it so many times, is no. This is an unknown 101 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: male wearing a bandana and a stolen green two thousand 102 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: two suv with South Carolina plates. Kathleen Murphy, what now, Nancy, 103 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: I think that this child was absolutely stud and kidnapped. 104 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: I don't up. I think that it was a plan 105 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: to pick up which leads me to believe that maybe 106 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: she had contact on the internet once again, and the 107 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: minor child is on the Internet and may have gotten 108 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: into some trouble. We're learning a little bit more, Kathleen Murphy. 109 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: We're learning a little bit more as the minute TikTok. 110 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: We know nothing right now about any connection on the 111 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: internet at all, but Kathleen is right. Police will be 112 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: looking through any and all social media. We know that 113 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: the family sent the little girl out to start a 114 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: relatives suv to go to school. Here's more, We're learning 115 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: more about the vehicle, everybody. We're learning that it is 116 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: a Green Forward Expedition, Green Forward Expedition with South Carolina 117 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: license plate in Nancy W West as south nine eight 118 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: for a Green Forward Expedition. The FBI on the case. 119 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: Back to John Linley, Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter, John, 120 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: what more can you tell us in the search for 121 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: this little girl. There's a fifteen thousand dollar reward. Tipline 122 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: two seven to five, eight seven, one nine zero two 123 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: seven to five, eight seven one or zero six seven 124 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: one three eight four five repeat zero six seven one 125 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: three eight four five. John Limley, what more do we know? Well, 126 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: that vehicle we've been discussing, we're learning actually belonged to 127 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: the ant. That was the car that, uh, the teenager 128 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: Hanya went out to start. And it's interesting the way 129 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: this all unfolded. Uh, Hanya was not actually sent outside. 130 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: It appears she might have been punching her aunt's buttons. 131 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 1: Her aunt was going to drive her to school, and 132 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: Hanya said, I'm going to go start the car. She's 133 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: at that age where probably she's looking for Reginald. I 134 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: can't tell you something, John Lemley. My children actually like 135 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 1: to get to school early. So if I'm not running 136 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: like a maniac to get them there early to do 137 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: their quote morning work, they will start riding me. Mom, Mom, 138 00:08:58,640 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: I want to get there early. I want to get 139 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: their Really, I could just see her going, Okay, Auntie, 140 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out and start in the car. Okay, 141 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: I'm ahead of your five steps ahead of you go ahead, 142 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: and the aunt kept saying no, no, just wait on me. 143 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: But Hanya, being a strong teenager, she grabbed the keys 144 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: and went out and started the vehicle, her aunt's vehicle, 145 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: that green suv we've been talking about. And it's quite possible. 146 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: It appears that the perpetrator just came up on foot 147 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: and actually pushed the team into the passenger side of 148 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: the car and that's when he took off and can 149 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Morgan Norwood at w 150 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: t vd TV. This is senior FBI agent Andy Della Russia. 151 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: The FBI now says a neighbor called nine one one 152 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: once she saw Ana being forced into that drug by 153 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: a man wearing a yellow bandana. The girl's mother, not 154 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: quite ready to talk to media, to David during a 155 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: press conference, the FBI shared this message from her to 156 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: her daughter and her kid never I just want my 157 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: daughter back with me. I'm here waiting for you. I 158 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: love you and only care about you, and I don't 159 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: have anything against whoever did this to you. I just 160 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: want you back. Can you get hold of anything and 161 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: civil any house sitting with it, any right in the 162 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: center the pot to see it. If you're getting hard enough, 163 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: you're knocking out. Find something and hit him with it 164 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: as I can. Can you run in the house and 165 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: got to taken to something. I can't lame that out here. 166 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: It'll take you thirty seconds to run out a game. 167 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: And I need somebody, ma'am. I need you to go 168 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: find him nice immediately. I get right about one here 169 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: and go along the bottoms of neck. He's gonna let go. 170 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: It's gonna release his job most as he won't have 171 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: a toy. Put legad somebody else. Everybody's around to you 172 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: as fast as they can get there. I need you to 173 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: to do anything you can do with that to make 174 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: that dog. Let go to slit the dog's throat. And 175 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: nine one one dispatchers horrific instructions to a young mom 176 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: while her one year old little girl was being mauled 177 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: to death by their pet pit bull. The mom screaming, 178 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: I can't leave her out there, I can't leave her 179 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: here to run in and get a knife, and the 180 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: dispatch going, go, go go. It is your only chance. 181 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: Oh what that mother lived through and now her baby dead, 182 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: lord dead in front of her eyes. I can hardly 183 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: even take that in. I mean as he Grace. This 184 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories, thank you for being with us. We're 185 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: gonna take a look at this case and figure out 186 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: what can we do to stop this from happening again. 187 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: I'm talking about little Trinity Harold, just one year old, 188 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: died in the hospital on Monday, lingering for a week 189 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: after a pitt at quote that in the air, a 190 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: pit pit bull attack. She was just simply playing with 191 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: her family's pit bull when suddenly the dog attacked her. 192 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: Her mother, Miranda's nine one call has emerged and is 193 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: breaking hearts all over the country. She hears the dispatch 194 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: instructing her to slit the dog's throat and beat it 195 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: to death. She grabbed a knife and tried to kill 196 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: the animal, but the blade was not sharp enough to 197 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: have any impact. Well, finally the sheriff's deputies arrived. They 198 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: shot the animal twice before it would let go of 199 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: the baby. Straight out to John Limley, Crime online dot 200 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter. At crime online dot com, you can 201 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: find this story and all other breaking crime injustice kneeds John, 202 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: what happened with baby Trinity? I just don't get it. 203 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: The mom that we heard there, the young mother, Miranda 204 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: Harrold was playing outside with that one year old daughter, Trinity. 205 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: Trinity had just turned one back during this summer back 206 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: in July, also in the yard. As we've heard, their 207 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: family pet a six year old pit bull mix. No 208 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: one is certain what led the dog to attack, but 209 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: what is clear is that it was not going to 210 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: let go of the child on its own, and so distraught. 211 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: I am just so distraught about this. A lot of 212 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: you guys know my dog, fat Boy. He was first Nitro, 213 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: but then he fell asleep in the food bag one 214 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: night and his tummy got so big it just hung 215 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: over to one side, and I told him he was 216 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: a fat boy, and it's stuck fat Boy. They promised 217 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: me at the pound, excuse me and I will rescue uh, 218 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: that he was a Thoroughbred Dockson. Okay, he's not. I 219 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: think he's maybe Doberman from the neck up and Dockson 220 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: from the neck down. With you agree, Jackie, That's yeah, 221 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 1: that's what he looks like. Well, when we take him 222 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: on a walk, he thinks he is a Doberman and 223 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 1: he starts fights with Rott Wilder's or whatever he sees. 224 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: And when in your My point is when in the 225 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: middle of this. You do things you may freeze, or 226 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: you do things that are completely ridiculous. The last time 227 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: he started a fight with two rottweilers, I went over 228 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: there and grabbed him from between the rottwellers he got 229 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: off his leash, that was his last walk in the neighborhood, 230 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: by the way, and pulled him out. I could if 231 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: they had been in my arm or my wrisk, that 232 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: would have been all she wrote, and the twins would 233 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: be raised without a mother right then and there. You know, 234 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: I've got to figure out that this whole dynamic of 235 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: why you would have a dog that would attack people. 236 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: To ask you, Wilcott, you're the juvenile judge, lawyer and 237 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: founder of child crime watch dot com. Ashley, You've got 238 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: a dog and it's precious and it doesn't kill. Well, 239 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: here's the problem. Pet animals are unpredictable, and so the 240 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: best you can do is make sure it has a 241 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: temperament that it can be around kids. But unpredictable things 242 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: can still happen, and you have to be cautious of 243 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: the breed of dog and the way the dog is 244 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: raised and whether or not there's aggressive tendency or they're 245 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: allowed to act aggressively, because if so, they're going to 246 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: act aggressively with a child. In this case, she the 247 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: mom begged a dispatch her to hurry up, hurry up 248 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: and send help. It was for nine minutes, John Linley 249 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: to Joseph's got Morgan, Is that a tiny bit too long? 250 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to blame the SHAREFFUS for 251 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: what happened, but that's kind of a long time to 252 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: beg for help. Yeah, it kind of is, Nancy, But again, 253 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: we have to consider I don't know how isolated this 254 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: family is relative to where what the response time would 255 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: be and where they would be coming from this sort 256 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: of thing. So that's certainly something to take into consideration. 257 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: But nine minutes, Uh, that's that's a moment. That's a moment, 258 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: Tom that uh, you know, this child just languished there 259 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: and eventually got I wonder if fire rescue could have 260 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: gotten there earlier, because I grew up in a very 261 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: rural area and calling police that would have been a 262 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: twenty five minute drive for them going nine mph. Yeah, yeah, 263 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: you're right, and and and lots of times. What will 264 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: happen is that fire rescue and the police will simultaneously 265 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: be activated. So as their rural, you're gonna send you know, 266 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: there might just be a volunteer fire department in that area, 267 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: so you never know, you know. The mom says she 268 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: was hitting the dog in the head and it would 269 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: not let go of the baby. Let's listen to what 270 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: we can learn from that nine one one call. Can 271 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: you get hold of anything and so will anyhow hitting 272 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: with it? If you're getting hard enough, you're knocking my 273 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: own find something and hitting with it. Can you run 274 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: in the house and got stay night and something. I 275 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: can't leave that out here. It'll take you thirty seconds 276 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: to run on, look and grab I need somebody, ma'am. 277 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: I need you to go find a nice immediately. I 278 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: can grab him one here and go along the bottom 279 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: of the neck. He's gonna let go. It's gonna release 280 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: his dog muscle. People have a choice. Cut legat somebody. Now. 281 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: Everybody's around to you as fast as they can get there. 282 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: I need you to do anything you can do with 283 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: that to make that dog let go. The dog's life 284 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: is not confirmed any of the form, but trying to 285 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: figure out what if anything she could have done. Joining 286 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: me right now is animal rights advocate and veteran trial 287 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: lawyer Penny Douglas fur out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Penny, 288 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: let me just frame this the first time I ever 289 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: delivered some legal documents and research to Penny Douglas fur. 290 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: Let's see. I think it was one night we had 291 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: an h LN show and I wanted to give you something. 292 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: I can't even remember what I was delivering. I went 293 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: to your front door. I actually jumped back because when 294 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: I rang the doorbell, the door was attacked by five rottweilers. 295 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: I think it was five. All I could see was 296 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: like saliva dripping from their fangs. Then I found out 297 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: one was named pretty Girl. Okay, so I think I 298 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: know where you're coming from. You let them sleep with you, 299 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: you give them peanut butter bombs for treats. I'll just 300 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: leave it there, Penny Douglas for I guess you're gonna 301 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: say it's not the dog's vault. Well know what I 302 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: was waiting for. The nine one one just operator to 303 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: say is kick him in the testicles. He'll drop anything. 304 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: If you'd just gone behind him and kicked him in 305 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: the testicles, he would have let that baby go. And 306 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: another thing, Nancy, this dog is not a pit bull. 307 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: And there's the problem now, because they have these backyard breeders, 308 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: which we need to get rid of. And they tried 309 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: to breed these dogs that have pit in them, but 310 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: they're bigger and more powerful. From the pictures I've seen, 311 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: this is not a pit bull. This is one of 312 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: those bigger, more aggressive dogs. And let me ask you 313 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: a question, Penny Douglas, for not to confuse anyone with 314 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: the facts, but do you have any sintilla of evidence 315 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: to suggest this is not a pit bull? Because the 316 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: police and journalists and the family all say it's a 317 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: pit bull, you are the only one that says it's 318 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: not a pit bull. Now they said it's a pit 319 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 1: bull mix. They didn't say it, So your defense says 320 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: it's not a thoroughbred pit ball. Okay. Them line is, Nancy, 321 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: you cannot leave these animals with little children. And what 322 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: these backyard breeders do, which a genuine good breeder would 323 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: never do, is if they get a male and a 324 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: female who are both very aggressive, a good breeder would 325 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: immediately nooter and spay those dogs because they do not 326 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: want that in their bloodline. So if they get a 327 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: dog that's crazy and aggressive, they fixed the dog. If 328 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: you have one of these backyard dog fighting breeders, when 329 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: they see aggressive dogs, they immediately made them to hope 330 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: they get puppies that are more aggressive, and that has 331 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: to be stocked. You know, Penny, I hear you making 332 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: the very fine distinction that it wasn't a thoroughbred pit bull, 333 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: but even you not on the scene must admit it 334 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: was a pit ball mix at the very least. Let's 335 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: just question why this breed. Pit Balls have been banned 336 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: in twelve countries around the world New Zealand, Brazil, Belgium, Canada, France, Finland, Denmark, Poland, 337 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: Norway and Puerto Rico. Think about that. Window treatments is 338 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: one of those terms for something necessary but boring. Your 339 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: blinds you don't even think about them unless you move 340 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: or they break. Well. When they're right, everything in your 341 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: home looks better, But when they're wrong, everything in your 342 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: home looks tacky. But let's be honest, taking the time 343 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: and the effort to pick out and buy blind sounds 344 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: expensive boring, and then think of installing them yourself. Who 345 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: wants to do that? But blinds dot Com makes it 346 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: really easy for you. I'm not sure what you want 347 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: or even more. To start with blinds dot Com, you 348 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: get a free online design consultation, send them pictures of 349 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: your home. 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There's 358 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: no excuse to leave up mangled blinds to make your 359 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: whole home look cheap and tacky. Don't do it. Go 360 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: to blinds dot com and now, for a limited time, 361 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 1: get twenty off everything at blinds dot Com when you 362 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: use promo code Nancy. Repeat off everything at blinds dot Com. 363 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: If you use the promo code Nancy. That's blinds dot 364 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: Com promo code Nancy for off everything foe wood, blinds, 365 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: cellular shades, roller shades, everything blinds dot Com Promo code Nancy. 366 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: Rules and restrictions do apply. The Davis family was home 367 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: at the time one year old Trinity Herald was attacked 368 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: by a dog. Sean Davis tells us he couldn't quite 369 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: figure out where the screams were coming from. A baby 370 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: crabb all through time and not at the fourth time. 371 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: One year old Trinity Harold died after fighting for her 372 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: life at UNC Children's Hospital. The child was attacked by 373 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: the family six year old piple a week ago. The 374 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: Edgecom County Sheriff's Office responded shooting the dog so it 375 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: would release baby Trinity. They shouted out like three times 376 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: and then when I got over there to the fence, 377 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: the police and everyone will run into the bag and 378 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: then about the baby out on the mulance and everybody 379 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: was crying. Oh my stars, that hurts me to even 380 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: hear it. That's our friend at w r A LTV 381 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: case the Cunningham interviewing neighbors of Trinity Harold. That was 382 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: Sean Davis and others. Senia Horne describing the scene what 383 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: happened when the baby was mauled dead to Dr Daniel Bober, 384 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist, Well, you know, Dr Boba, before I go 385 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: to you, John Linley, for those just joining us here, 386 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: at crime stories. Give me a recap about what happened 387 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: to the baby. The mother, Miranda Harold, her daughter Trinity, 388 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: that's the toddler who had just turned one, were in 389 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: the backyard playing with a six year old pit bull mix, 390 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, from the mother's account, the 391 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: dog lunges and grabs the daughter with its with its jaws, 392 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: and no matter what the mother did, even after being 393 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: guided by a operator to go through various steps to 394 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: get the dog to let go, nothing will do the 395 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: trick until a deputy arrives and shoots the dog. You 396 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: know one thing, have you heard of a break stick? 397 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: A break stick is a device inserted into the mouth 398 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: of a fi pit bull behind the mull ors to 399 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: make them release their grip on another dog. Now here's 400 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: the thing. Why would you even want a pit that 401 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: you have to stick something in its mouth to make 402 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: it let go of another dog or a baby? To 403 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Bober joining me forensic psychiatrists, now, pit bulls 404 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 1: and rottweilers are associated with crime. They're associated with crime 405 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: because dopers, drug lords, thugs of all sorts have them 406 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: and are frequently seen with them. That's a bad look. 407 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: Dr Bobera. Why would a regular family have a dog 408 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: whose reputation is for violence? Nancy, This is this is 409 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: a no brainer. In two thousand nine, the Children's Hospital 410 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: of Philadelphia did his study and looking at dog bite injuries. 411 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: They look at over thirty breeds and what they found 412 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: was that over half of those injuries we're from pit bulls, 413 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: and then nine percent were from Rottweilers, and then six 414 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: percent were from a breed of a pit bull and 415 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: the roight waterer. So the pitfalls are responsible for an 416 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: overwhelming majority of these injuries. And they are an aggressive breed. 417 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: And you you know, as Ashley said, dogs are unpredictable anyway, 418 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: but when you have an aggressive breed like this, you're 419 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 1: just asking for trouble. I believe it was in the 420 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: Journal of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery and he done with 421 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: us for our animal rights advocate and lawyer go ahead. 422 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: It is very true that with a lot of these 423 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: large breeds, they don't bite any more than your little 424 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: dobe what dobe dogs that you have, but when they 425 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: do bite, they can cause a lot more damage dogs 426 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: and I would and so they're no different than he is. 427 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: But because they're big, powerful, hasn't killed anybody, hasn't killed anybody. 428 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: They're big and strong, they can cause a lot more damage. 429 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: So I speak to people who were getting roy Wallers, 430 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: who were getting any of these very large breeds, that 431 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: they have to be guarded and they have to protect 432 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: their dogs. They have to protect the public, they have 433 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: to protect their children. They have to be extremely careful 434 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: if they want one of these breeds of dogs. And 435 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: would you why do you want to live like that? 436 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: Why do you have to why would you want to 437 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: worry about that all the time? Is a lot of 438 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: people dogs. I love big dogs, and but I'm very 439 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: careful with mine. Might have never heard anybody mine are 440 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: very careful, Monita, Wait a minute, Wait a minute, whoa 441 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: penny Douglas? Fur? Though you keep yours a lot in 442 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: the house all day and then until you personally can 443 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: take them out, they don't really have a chance to 444 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: attack anybody. They don't and they never will because I'm 445 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: protecting the public and I'm protecting my dogs, and that 446 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: will never happen with my dogs. Well, I'm glad you are, 447 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: but not the the whole world doesn't know the realities. 448 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 1: Um what happens when you have a dog like this 449 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: just got Morgan explain to me what happened to baby 450 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: Trinity exactly. Joe Scott Morgan is a professor of forensics 451 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State University, a longtime death investigator, author of 452 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: a brand new book, Blood Beneath My Feet, which is 453 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: available on Amazon dot com. Joe Scott helped me out. Yeah. 454 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: My My thought is, Nancy, is that this child sustained 455 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 1: severe crushing injuries. The fact that the child lingered as 456 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: long as long as as as she did is is, 457 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: you know, is a is a miracle in and of itself. 458 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: And I think that one of the things here that 459 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: you have to think about is that when these dogs engage, uh, 460 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: the target that they're after. Uh. The reason this woman 461 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: is having a difficult time getting this child, getting this 462 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: dog to disengage from this child is that the strength 463 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: of these jaws, it's it's very prohibitive, uh to be 464 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: able to get them to turn loose. This isn't a 465 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 1: light little nip or something like that. They're going for blood. 466 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: At this moment time. They perceived this child to be 467 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: a threat, and maybe the child pinched the dog in 468 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: some way initiated this this is a one year old child. 469 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: God only knows. We have many parents in the air 470 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: with us right now. God only knows what a one 471 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: year old child might do to a dog to frighten 472 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: the dog. And if the dog is already at a 473 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: heightened state of alert has a proclivity for biting that 474 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: sort of thing, the child is going to clamp down. 475 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: I would like to hear what Penny would have to 476 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: say relative to how many footpounds of pressure the jaws 477 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: of this dog can exhibit, because um, you know you 478 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: can't get this this and and the child, the child itself, 479 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: one year old, Nancy, one year old, this, this child 480 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: is not fully you know, the bones are not completely 481 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: ossified at this point moment time either. So structurally the 482 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: child is going to be very, very vulnerable. Guys, we 483 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,479 Speaker 1: are talking about a beautiful baby girl, one year old, 484 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: her mother out in the front yard with her playing. 485 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: The family dog is there. Suddenly the dog attacks John Linley. 486 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: Very often you will hear people say, oh, it's not 487 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: the dog's fault. The child did X, Y or Z, 488 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: threw a rock, pulled its hair. This that there is 489 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: no but when it comes to blaming a one year 490 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: old child, John Linley, has there been any suggestion that 491 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: it was quote, the child's fault. We have no insight 492 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: into exactly what was happening other than the fact that 493 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: the mom and the child were playing in the backyard 494 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: and the dog was nearby. That's all we know as 495 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: far as the moments leading up to the attack. Tell 496 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: me more about what you know about the family, about 497 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: the home, Had there been any other incidents of violence, 498 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: any any problem within that home that we don't know about. 499 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: The last report we had from Edgecomb County Deputies, and 500 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: this was one of the initial press conferences, was that 501 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: they were going back to review their records when it 502 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: came to uh the dog and any child's safety issues. 503 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: They have yet to report back on those findings, if 504 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: there were any. We are talking about a beautiful little 505 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: Earle now dead after her family pet attacks and kills her, 506 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: with the mob standing by screaming calling nine one one. 507 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: But our friend Jim Ray and Inside Edition is spoken 508 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: with one of the world's top leading vets that how's 509 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: the suggestion listen if little Trinity was rushed to the 510 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: hospital but didn't make it. Veterinarian Brett Levitsky says there's 511 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: a way to stop a dog attack that not many 512 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: people know about. If you pick them up by the 513 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: hind legs, they're all balanced. Their first reaction maybe to 514 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: let go and then turn around. I've never heard that. 515 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: I did not know that. To Penny Douglas for our 516 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: animal rights advocate and Atlante trial lawyer, Penny, I didn't 517 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: know that you picked them up by the hind legs. 518 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: I've never heard that. Oh absolutely, That's why I said 519 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: kicking in the testicles. They protect that area and if 520 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: you're going for that area, they will immediately turn to 521 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: see what's going on and they will let go. So 522 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,719 Speaker 1: that's a very good way to get them to logo. 523 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: To Ashley Willcott, Atlanta juvenile judge, lawyer and founder of 524 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: child I'm watch dot com. Ashley, I'm gonna put it 525 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: out there. Uh, nobody wants to touch it with a 526 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: tin foot pole. And I'm not saying yes or no. 527 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: But where does this leave the parents when you have 528 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: a dangerous dog around your children and the dog attacks, 529 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: so you know legally first bite tree. I hate that expression, 530 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: but what it means is if you have a dog 531 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: who bites legally, you may not be responsible or liable 532 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: or criminally liable. But if it happens again, if there's 533 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: been an aggressive incident where the dog has bitten someone 534 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: and it happens again, then I think these parents could 535 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: be subject to civil and criminal liability for allowing this 536 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: child to excuse me, this dog to live and maul 537 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: the child to death. And do you, John Limy, Crime 538 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, That's what I was getting at. 539 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: Whether there had been previous complaints about the dog within 540 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: the neighborhood, within other around other children, or really at all, 541 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: because that is the status of the law, John Limley 542 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: in many states one bite free. In other words, the 543 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: owners may not know the dog has a propensity to bite, 544 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: but then once it does buy it's on the owner. 545 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: That's absolutely true. In fact, that one of the press conferences, 546 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: one of the reporters there uh point blank asked the 547 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: sheriff there in Edgecombe County uh if there were charges pending, 548 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: if there was any history of of trouble with the dog, 549 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: if one had ever been called from that residence before 550 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: concerning the dog the child both, And he said that 551 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: they were investigating that, and they have yet to come 552 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: back with word on that what happened to the family dog. 553 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: After the one call was placed, it was about nine 554 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: ten minutes before deputy has arrived, and one of the 555 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: first detectives to arrive was not even on call at 556 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: the moment. He had just heard the dispatch and was 557 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: not far away and he was able to arrive there. 558 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: First he saw that the dog was shaking, uh the 559 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: little child like a baby doll, and he didn't think 560 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: twice he got out his gun and it took two shots, 561 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: but was able to kill the dog. You know, to 562 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist Dr Daniel Bober, what is it on another 563 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: note amongst criminals that I think it looks cool to 564 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: have Rottweilers and pit bulls all around them. What is 565 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: that thinking? I think it's an image, Nancy, right. I 566 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: think they want to be feared, they want to be admired, 567 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: they want to be the bad boy, and I think 568 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: that the dog just completes the whole picture. And then 569 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: that leads me to the next question to Ashley Wilcott 570 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: found her child crimewatch dot com. When a dog, I 571 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: know this sounds crazy, but a dog breed has a 572 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: reputation to be the chosen dog for thugs and criminals 573 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: and dopers. Why would you want that around your child? Yeah, 574 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: and here's the problem. A lot of the reasons that 575 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: those criminals have those dogs is those dogs can are 576 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,959 Speaker 1: huge dogs, powerful dog can be trained to be very aggressive, 577 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: and so a lot of people have them, quite frankly, 578 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: as protection, to protect their things and because people are 579 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: scared of them for a reason. So if you're gonna 580 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: have one of those dogs, you sure as heck better 581 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: not adopted because you don't know how they've been trained, 582 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: and you sure as heck better have professional help training 583 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: one of those dogs to ensure they're not aggressive. I 584 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't have one of those dogs at all because of 585 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: the aggressive nature. But that's just me. I want to 586 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: make it very clear. The mother and the father in 587 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: this scenario are not criminals at all. They're loving parents 588 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: and their baby Trinity was the joy of their life. 589 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: Why they get a pit bull, I don't know. Maybe 590 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: they didn't know it had a reputation for violence. Maybe 591 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: they got it for that reputation, to protect the baby 592 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: or to protect the home. But again, this is not 593 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: the parents fault. In fact, the mother risked her own 594 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: life and jumped in and tried to stab the dogs. 595 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: She didn't stand back and oh no, somebody helped me. 596 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: She begged for help. That she went and she got 597 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: a knife, and she tried to kill the dog herself. 598 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: She put her own life in jeopardy to try to 599 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: save her save her little one year old child. Penny 600 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 1: Douglas for her emial rights advocate Atlantel lawyer something else. 601 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: She said how she will cut very interesting. Don't get 602 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: a dog of this breed that may have been mistreated 603 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,880 Speaker 1: by others, because you don't know how it's going to 604 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: react after it's been mistreated. Nancy, I have a very 605 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: good dog trainer, and if I have a Rottweiler or 606 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: a pit I would send the dog to Mr. Story. 607 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: His name is Mark's Story. He also works with police departments. 608 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: And I say, Mark, if there's a problem with this dog, 609 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: you tell me and we'll use the Knight as the dog. 610 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: I will have Mark worked with the dog for a 611 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: few weeks, and if he says it's a great dog, 612 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: it's fine, then then it would go to the family. 613 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: As I've write it now, Penny Douglas, for no charges 614 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: have been filed. I'm gonna circle back to that. My 615 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 1: question do you, Penny, is do you believe that we 616 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: or many people have an undeserved fear of this breed. 617 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: I think that you're looking at that You have to 618 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: look at the dog individually and not just at the breed. 619 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: I think the reason this dog has gotten this reputation 620 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: is because we have dangerous breeders who are breeding aggressive 621 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: dogs to aggressive dogs. Then you get more. I don't 622 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: think there's a problem with a pit bull. That's a 623 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 1: treat pit bull, as she will caught. You're a dog lover. 624 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: There's a reputation for a reason. Actually, there is a 625 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: reputation for a reason, and I think that those dogs 626 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: can be trained to be very aggressive in the aggressive 627 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: aggressive tendencies can be encouraged or promoted by the owner, 628 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: and that's what's happened, and so they have this reputation 629 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,280 Speaker 1: because they can be that way depending on how they're treating. 630 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: Authorities have confirmed Little Trinity did pass away. She was 631 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: at UNC Children's Hospital in Chapel Hill. The little girl 632 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: was attacked when Edgecombe County Deputy say that the mommy Miranda, 633 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: and her daughter were playing on the back porch uh 634 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: there their Highway forty three home and Suddenly, the six 635 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: year old pit bull mix attacked Trinity. The mom risked 636 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 1: her own life trying to jump into the fray and 637 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: stop the attack, even trying to stab the dog. Now 638 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: there was a sheriff Klee. Atkinson said when the first 639 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: deputies arrived, the dog was shaking the baby like it 640 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: was she was a baby doll, back and forth to 641 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensics at Jacksonville 642 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: State Joe scot what were the injuries to Trinity? The 643 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 1: injuries were crushing injuries. Uh, Nancy, And you know when 644 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: you you hear about how they really highlighted a second 645 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: ago how the baby was being thrashed about. Essentially, Uh, 646 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: this is the way, uh primintily that a an animal 647 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: like this would kill something, say, small vermin, this sort 648 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: of thing kind of shake it to death. Um. And 649 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: and that's what's going on with It's it's replicating this 650 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: this uh, this this behavior by shaking this child. So 651 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: you'd have the crushing injuries. Uh, and that's gonna be 652 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: compounded with severe head injuries as well. Uh, this kind 653 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: of concussive event that's going on. Um, it's it's a 654 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: very sad, tragic way. Uh. For this this family to 655 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: have to live with this for the rest of their lives, 656 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: this mom and dad and all of the friends that 657 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 1: we've heard from on the air today, I think that, 658 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, coming away from this, uh, I view dogs 659 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: in in a in a kind of a different way. 660 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,879 Speaker 1: I'm i'm, i'm I love firearms, that sort of thing, 661 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: but I have a lot of respect for firearms, and 662 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: I assume that every single weapon that I come across 663 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,720 Speaker 1: is in fact loaded with this particular breed of dogs. 664 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: They are bred for a specific reason, and you really 665 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: have to look at that when you're gonna have them 666 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: around small children. My assumption is working. Assumption is always 667 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: that there's a potential and they could do great harm, 668 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,479 Speaker 1: and unfortunately, in this case, they did to this little 669 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: No charges are penning against this family who are suffering 670 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: so so much. On Monday morning, November and approximately six am, 671 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: at Rosewood Mobile Home Park located at thirty five twenty 672 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,760 Speaker 1: five he Losable Town Road, Lot thirty nine, a witness 673 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: saw a male suckdressed in all black and we're in 674 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: a yelled Bandanna approached Miss Hannah Noella agailor a thirteen 675 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 1: and forced her into a green two thousand and two 676 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: Ford expedition, and he distubbed a vehicle and throw over 677 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 1: way with Miss Angler in the vehicle. Miss Angler has 678 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 1: been waiting on families to come out of the resident 679 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: to take her to school at the Lumberton Junior High School, 680 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 1: where she is in the eighth grade. Every parent's worst 681 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: a nightmare has come true in North Carolina as the 682 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: FBI joins in the desperate search for a little girl 683 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: kidnapped outside her home by a man wearing a bandana. 684 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: Witnesses saw her being forced into the back of an 685 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 1: s u V. Right now, the family in anguish. Please 686 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: help us find Hania I Meancy Grace. This is crime stories. 687 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. This is happening now 688 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: take a listen to Lumberton Police Chief Michael McNeil. The 689 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 1: suspect then drove the two thousand and two for the 690 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:49,280 Speaker 1: expedition bearing the tag South Carolina tag nor William Sam 691 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: four out of the neighborhood and was last seen turning 692 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: left onto the Elizabethtown Room. At this time, the investigators 693 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 1: are an interviewing witnesses, family and friends, as well as 694 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: conducting a door to door canvas in the neighborhood and 695 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: check in area of surveillances to find out any information 696 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: with ten as you hear the police chief telling us 697 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 1: Hanya was fortune to a stolen green two thousand to 698 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,800 Speaker 1: suv with South Carolina license plate in Nancy W West 699 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: s South nine eight four in w S nine eight four. 700 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: To all of you on the roads right now, we 701 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: are looking for a stolen green two thousand two suv 702 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: with South Carolina license plates in Nancy, W West s 703 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 1: South nine eight four. As we all know, every hour 704 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: that passes makes it less likely Hanya will be found alive. 705 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: Straight out to crime online dot Com investigate reporter John Limley, John, 706 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: what happened? Start at the beginning, otherwise and unremarkable morning 707 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:12,720 Speaker 1: for this family. Eighth grader Hanya Aguilar. It's just before 708 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: seven o'clock, about sixty five, and it appears she might 709 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:22,800 Speaker 1: have been right there right there. Vincent Hill, cop turned 710 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: p I, author of playbook to Murder on Amazon, creator 711 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: podcast Fall of a Titan. Vincent Hill, you're the former cop. 712 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 1: I mean, you just don't expect a kidnapping at seven 713 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,959 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. Well, Nancy, you and I both 714 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 1: know that there's no perfect time for a crime. Anything 715 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 1: can happen at any time, and when you're looking for 716 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,399 Speaker 1: a young, vulnerable victim, that's the perfect time to go 717 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,320 Speaker 1: out and do this, because you know, these young people 718 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: are getting ready to go to school. So I think 719 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: this person was lying in wait to do exactly what 720 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: they did, you know. Vincent Hill joining me along with 721 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,400 Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, psychologist and lawyer and host of investigation 722 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: Discoveries hit series Fatal Vows. Kathleen Murphy, renown North Carolina 723 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,919 Speaker 1: family lawyer John Limley reporting with Crime online dot Com. 724 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: Jackie Howard in the studio. Alan Duke joining me in 725 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: l A. You know, Alan, you and I Jackie, we've 726 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: all gotten children ready for school. It's a mad dash 727 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 1: every morning, no matter how much you plan it out. 728 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: How often have I sent the twins to go get 729 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: in the minivan While I'm finishing up and locking the 730 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: door and getting their jackets or whatever I have to 731 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 1: take to the car. They send this little girl out. 732 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,799 Speaker 1: They're coming to get her. She's waiting for them to 733 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 1: come take her to school, and this suv just happens 734 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 1: to pull up right then. Dr Brian Russell seven o'clock 735 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:54,800 Speaker 1: in the morning. Uh in Oh, that guy knew her schedule. 736 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: I guarantee you, as somebody in that community. Brian Russell 737 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,399 Speaker 1: not only did her schedule, but statistically, it is much 738 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: more likely that the person had known or at least 739 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 1: had some kind of prior contact with her, than that 740 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: the person was just sort of looking for any random 741 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: girl and happy to see her and thought, Okay, I'm 742 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 1: gonna abduct this girl. I'm with you on that. I agree, 743 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell. Kathleen Murphy, family lawyer, I know where 744 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: your mind races immediately custodial issues. Is there a non 745 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,280 Speaker 1: custodial parent that would come take the child? The answer 746 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,919 Speaker 1: to that, Kathleen Murphy, because you've dealt with it so 747 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: many times, is no. This is an unknown male wearing 748 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 1: a bandana and a stolen green two thousand two suv 749 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 1: with South Carolina plates. Kathleen Murphy, what now, Nancy. I 750 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: think that this child was absolutely stoked and kidnapped. I 751 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: don't pick up. I think that it was a plan 752 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: to pick up, which leads me to believe that maybe 753 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: she had contact on the internet with one figure and 754 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,840 Speaker 1: the minor child is on the Internet and may have 755 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: gotten into some trouble. We're learning a little bit more 756 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,439 Speaker 1: as the minute tick talk. We know nothing right now 757 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,960 Speaker 1: about any connection on the Internet at all, but Kathleen 758 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,879 Speaker 1: is right. Police will be looking through any and all 759 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 1: social media. We know that the family sent the little 760 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,800 Speaker 1: girl out to start a relatives suv to go to school. 761 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: Here's more, we're learning more about the vehicle. Everybody, Uh, 762 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:37,800 Speaker 1: we're we're learning that it is a Green Forward Expedition, 763 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 1: Green Forward Expedition with South Carolina license plate in Nancy, 764 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: W West as south nine eight for a Green Forward Expedition. 765 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: The FBI on the case. Back to John Linley, Crime 766 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, John, what more can you 767 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,839 Speaker 1: tell us in the search for this little girl? There's 768 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: a fifty thousand dollar reward tipline zero two seven to 769 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: five eight seven one nine zero two seven to five 770 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: eight seven one or nine zero six seven one three 771 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:19,880 Speaker 1: eight four five repeat zero six seven one three eight 772 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,480 Speaker 1: four five, John Limley, what more do we know? Well, 773 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:28,120 Speaker 1: that vehicle we've been discussing, we're learning actually belonged to 774 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 1: the ant. That was the car that uh, the teenager 775 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,439 Speaker 1: Hanya went out to start and It's interesting the way 776 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:40,000 Speaker 1: this all unfolded. Uh Hanya was not actually sent outside. 777 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,359 Speaker 1: It appears she might have been punching her aunt's buttons. 778 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 1: Her aunt was going to drive her to school, and 779 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,239 Speaker 1: Hanya said, I'm gonna go start the car. She's at 780 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,080 Speaker 1: that age where probably she's looking for Reginald. I can't 781 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,120 Speaker 1: tell you something, John Lemley. My children actually like to 782 00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 1: get to school early. So if I'm not running like 783 00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,040 Speaker 1: a any act to get them there early to do 784 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:06,160 Speaker 1: their quote morning work, they will start riding me. MoMA. 785 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:07,440 Speaker 1: I want to get there early. I want to get 786 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,799 Speaker 1: there early. I could just see it going Okay, Auntie, 787 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to go out and start in the car. Okay, 788 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,960 Speaker 1: I'm ahead of your five steps ahead of you. Go ahead, 789 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 1: and the aunt kept saying no, no, just wait on me. 790 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,359 Speaker 1: But Hanya, being a strong teenager, she grabbed the the 791 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,640 Speaker 1: keys and went out and started the vehicle, her aunt's vehicle, 792 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:31,200 Speaker 1: that green suv we've been talking about, And it's quite possible. 793 00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 1: It appears that the perpetrator just came up on foot 794 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: and he actually pushed the team Uh into the passenger 795 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: side of the car and that's when he took off 796 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,400 Speaker 1: and kidnapped her. Take a listen to our friend Morgan 797 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:51,360 Speaker 1: Norwood at w t vd TV. This is senior FBI 798 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,720 Speaker 1: agent Andy Della Rotcha. The FBI now says a neighbor 799 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,360 Speaker 1: called nine one one once she saw any being forced 800 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,239 Speaker 1: into that drug by a man wearing a yellow bandy Anna, 801 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,080 Speaker 1: the girl's mother, not quite ready to talk to media today, 802 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 1: but during a press conference, the FBI shared this message 803 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:11,359 Speaker 1: from her to her daughter and her kidnapper. I just 804 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 1: want my daughter back with me. I'm here waiting for you. 805 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,960 Speaker 1: I love you and only care about you, and I 806 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: don't have anything against whoever did this to you. I 807 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:28,359 Speaker 1: just want you back. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off, 808 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:29,720 Speaker 1: good bye, friend,