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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck,

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Speaker 2: and Jerry's here, too. And this is a good old-fashioned

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Speaker 2: episode of Stuff You Should Know. I guess one that

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Speaker 2: we hope helps people understand things better is the clumsiest

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Speaker 2: way I can put it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty clumsy.

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Speaker 2: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: Nice as... You did well then.

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Speaker 2: Did you already know a lot about cancer before researching this? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like I knew most of this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Oh, really?

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Speaker 1: Generally. Like, obviously, you know, that we're going to go

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Speaker 1: over a lot of statistics and stuff early on. So

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Speaker 1: I wasn't super dialed in.

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Speaker 2: But, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we have cancer in our family on my

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Speaker 1: mom's side. Like, my mom had breast cancer. Her sister

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Speaker 1: had some kind of cancer. My one of her brothers

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Speaker 1: had some kind of cancer. So it's sort of been

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Speaker 1: around and I've lost a couple of friends to cancer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it's popped up here and there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that's more than your fair share

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Speaker 2: based on some of these statistics. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And, you know, I was. I mean, not to spoil anything, but.

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Speaker 1: I did see that only 5% to 10% of all

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Speaker 1: cancer cases could be attributed to genetic defects.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw something like that, too.

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Speaker 1: So that made me feel better as far as, you know,

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Speaker 1: knowing that I'm going to die of heart disease.

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Speaker 2: Right. You know? I mean, that is all American, though,

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Speaker 2: isn't it?

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Speaker 1: Oh, baby, it is.

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Speaker 2: They give you a little American flag to hold in

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Speaker 2: your casket when you die of heart disease.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But, you know, I mean, those are the two

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Speaker 1: leading causes, you know, especially if you're an American. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's one of the two is probably going

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Speaker 1: to take take me out.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing. It sucks to think about this

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Speaker 2: kind of stuff, but you're going to there's 100 percent

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Speaker 2: chance you're going to go somehow some way.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And I think 40 percent of men and

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Speaker 1: women in the United States will get a cancer diagnosis

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Speaker 1: at some point.

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Speaker 2: That's a lot. Yeah, one in every 2.5 Americans.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a sobering stat.

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Speaker 2: And I feel bad for that 0.5 American because they

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Speaker 2: already have it hard enough.

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Speaker 1: Right. I knew you'd find a way to get a

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Speaker 1: little humor in here.

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Speaker 2: So let me kind of tell you what I learned

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Speaker 2: about cancer that I just did not understand.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Which is kind of like the overview of what cancer is.

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Speaker 2: Cancer is not just one disease, which I kind of knew,

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Speaker 2: but I'd heard that I had no idea what people

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Speaker 2: are talking about. What they're talking about is it's actually

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Speaker 2: nowadays an umbrella term for a collection of more than

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Speaker 2: 200 different diseases. Yeah. And they all share two important

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Speaker 2: things in common. One, they come from genetic defects, not

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Speaker 2: just inherited genetic defects like you were talking about. And

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Speaker 2: then two, the mechanism of the disease is uncontrolled cell growth.

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Speaker 2: That's cancer. But the reason it's so insidious and difficult

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Speaker 2: to treat and, you know, kills so many people is

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Speaker 2: because it comes from your own body. It's not like

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Speaker 2: a foreign invader. It's your body doing what it normally does,

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Speaker 2: which is cells divide and they don't do it quite

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Speaker 2: right sometimes and they can turn cancerous. And your body

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Speaker 2: has ways to handle that stuff and get rid of it.

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Speaker 2: But if your body starts to get overwhelmed or your

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Speaker 2: immune system starts to get depleted as you age, then

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Speaker 2: the cancer can take hold and then it goes from

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Speaker 2: a normal byproduct of cell division to disease. I didn't

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Speaker 2: really understand cancer in those terms until I researched this. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's good. I mean, that probably means you haven't

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Speaker 1: faced it a lot in your immediate surroundings.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yubi's brother, her older brother Bobby, has stage 4

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Speaker 2: cancer right now. And he's been hanging in there for

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Speaker 2: a really long time. He's living his best life and everything. But,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's just kind of this constant in our lives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so if 5% to 10% are

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Speaker 1: attributed to genetic defects, then the other 90% to 95%

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Speaker 1: are rooted in environment and lifestyle issues. Obviously, with lifestyle,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about some obvious things like smoking and diet, alcohol,

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Speaker 1: the sun exposure, stuff like that. Stress is one that's

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Speaker 1: kind of scary to think about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Obesity. But then, you know, 15 to whatever, 20 percent

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Speaker 1: are due to stuff like, you know, environmental pollutants and

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Speaker 1: just radiation like. that you can experience maybe in your

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Speaker 1: workplace or your, uh, where you live or something like that.

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Speaker 1: And that's all like super, super sad. It's all sad,

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Speaker 1: but you know, the stuff that like you have no

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Speaker 1: control over, but you live near a thing that's just

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Speaker 1: super scary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, that, that UV radiation also

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Speaker 2: can just come from being out in the sun over

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Speaker 2: the course of your life, which, um, I think is

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Speaker 2: the reason why, uh, skin cancers are the most common

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Speaker 2: type of cancer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. The name cancer is Latin

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Speaker 1: for crab. So, you know, just like the Zodiac sign.

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Speaker 1: So in the early days, doctors describing tumors that had

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Speaker 1: like veins or extensions coming out of them said they

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Speaker 1: were crab like. And the way they said that was

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Speaker 1: they called them cancerous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So there you go. That's the end of the episode.

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Speaker 1: Should we go over some of these other stats?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. This is largely American stats, but we tried to

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Speaker 2: extend them where we could to the U.K., Australia, Canada.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, places where people listen to us.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Just wanted to make sure everybody could share in

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Speaker 2: this depressiveness.

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Speaker 1: No, I agree. At any point, about 17 million Americans

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Speaker 1: are living with cancer, and about 5,800 new cases are

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Speaker 1: diagnosed every day in the U.S., about 1,100 in the U.K.,

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Speaker 1: and just 450 in Australia. 696 in Canada.

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Speaker 2: I saw, too, later.

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Speaker 1: Oh, so 450 to 696? It's a range, I guess?

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Speaker 2: No, no, that's Australia. 696 is Canada's.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's Canada. I thought you said Australia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, uh-uh.

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Speaker 1: And every year, about 600,000 Americans die of cancer, which

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Speaker 1: accounts for about 17% of all deaths in the United States,

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Speaker 1: far and away with lung cancer being the leader there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The UK is flipped. It's number five in Australia, number

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Speaker 2: three in Canada. But it's definitely up there, right? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And lung cancer, not just in the US, but worldwide,

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Speaker 2: is most responsible for deaths from cancer. It's really prevalent

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Speaker 2: because smoking was really prevalent and still is. And you

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Speaker 2: can chalk the vast majority of cancer deaths every year

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Speaker 2: up to smoking, people who smoked. make up the vast

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Speaker 2: majority of people who die from lung cancer. And, um,

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Speaker 2: in the U S it's like 130,000 people every year

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Speaker 2: and something like a hundred thousand of those people smoked.

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Speaker 2: So every decade, a million people die because they smoke cigarettes.

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Speaker 2: And then every year, about 7,300 Americans die from secondhand

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Speaker 2: smoke exposure, which is even worse. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Um, colorectal cancer is number two, uh, at about 55,380 deaths, uh,

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Speaker 1: expected this year in 2026. But, um, sort of the,

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Speaker 1: the sobering part of colorectal cancer is that it's really, really, um,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could even say skyrocketing in young adults. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's up 51% since 1994 and people between 20 and 49,

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Speaker 1: and they don't, um, I mean, you should go get

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Speaker 1: colonoscopies in your 40s and I would even say by

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Speaker 1: the age 40, but your insurance may not cover it.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of work, obviously, in the insurance

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Speaker 1: world when it comes to covering things like this, because

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Speaker 1: as you'll see, getting ahead of the game and cancer

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Speaker 1: is the name of the game with beating cancer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And that is actually a reason why

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Speaker 2: deaths from cancer in the West are on their way

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Speaker 2: down and have declined precipitously in some cases. It depends

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Speaker 2: on the type of cancer. But like cancer death rates

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Speaker 2: for all cancers declined by almost 30 percent in the U.S.

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Speaker 2: over the past 20 years.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing.

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Speaker 2: Right. And the five year survival rate, which, as we'll see,

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Speaker 2: is pretty much for most cancers synonymous with cured, like

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Speaker 2: you're cured of cancer. That's that past 70 percent in 2025.

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Speaker 2: So Like the numbers are pretty good. And there's other

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Speaker 2: kinds of cancers that have like eye-poppingly positive survival rates.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, breast cancer for sure is one. One of the

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Speaker 1: highest at about 90.5%. Thyroid is really up there, 98%. Prostate, 96%.

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Speaker 1: Testicular cancer at 95%. And skin cancer at almost 94%.

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Speaker 1: So those are really, really encouraging numbers. It's one of

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Speaker 1: the scariest words I imagine you can hear. from a doctor. But,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you look at the numbers, unless it's

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Speaker 1: just sort of one of those rare worst case scenarios

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Speaker 1: where you get some kind of news that something is,

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Speaker 1: you know, stage four and metastasized.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: And, you know, that just that doesn't happen very often, thankfully.

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Speaker 2: No, typically pancreatic cancer is pointed to as kind of

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Speaker 2: like the poster child for that. Yeah. And the reason

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Speaker 2: why is because you don't show symptoms until it's metastasized.

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Speaker 2: And that means you're diagnosed typically at stage four, which

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Speaker 2: is last stage cancer, which means that I think it

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Speaker 2: has a Five-year survival rate of 11.5% in the United States.

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Speaker 2: Lung cancers is only 22%. So I'm going to get

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Speaker 2: screened hopefully this month because I just turned 50. Oh, good.

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Speaker 2: Which means I'm now eligible for a lung CT because

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Speaker 2: I smoked when I was younger and now I'm 50.

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Speaker 2: So cross your fingers because I don't want cancer.

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Speaker 1: I don't want you to have cancer either, buddy.

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Speaker 2: Thanks, man. That's like maybe the nicest thing you've ever

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Speaker 2: said to me.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, especially when you've done the right thing

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Speaker 1: and improved your health so much. And anytime somebody works

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Speaker 1: really hard to do something really, really hard, like quitting smoking,

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Speaker 1: you hope that there's a real great payoff for that.

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Speaker 1: You know, Emily smoked for a long time, too. So

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Speaker 1: she's she's always just sort of worried and she has

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Speaker 1: cancer in her family. So she has always getting tons

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Speaker 1: of screenings for things.

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Speaker 2: Good. It's smart. Yeah. So I think. One out of

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Speaker 2: every six deaths globally every year are from cancer. And

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Speaker 2: the rates are really boosted by lower income countries because

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Speaker 2: they don't have a lot of access like we do

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Speaker 2: in the West to services, to screenings, even HPV vaccinations. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's a huge preventative for a whole suite of cancers. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And in the United States, it's very prevalent and it

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Speaker 2: can save your sexual partner's life. years down the road.

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Speaker 2: And they don't necessarily have access to that. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, HPV, hepatitis, other viruses that can cause cancer

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Speaker 2: are called oncoviruses, like oncology.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Should we talk about cells for a little while?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't see how we can talk about

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Speaker 2: cancer and not talk about cells. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I think it would help if we talked a

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Speaker 1: little bit about how cell division and healthy cells are

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Speaker 1: supposed to work, which is Cells divide and reproduce and they,

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Speaker 1: you know, they do that when they should generally and

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Speaker 1: they do that where they need to do that generally.

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Speaker 1: And they locate themselves in the body where they're supposed

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Speaker 1: to go after they mature into a specialized cell. So

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Speaker 1: a cell will divide and then once it matures, it

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Speaker 1: gets an assignment basically to go perform a role. And,

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Speaker 1: you know, it generally does that pretty well. And when

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Speaker 1: it gets to the end, it's pretty miraculous when you

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Speaker 1: think of just normal cells. cell life, like how kind

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Speaker 1: of wonderful it is to look at. Like when they

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Speaker 1: get to the end of their life, they know that

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Speaker 1: and they self-destruct and they say, we've done our job.

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Speaker 1: It's time for us to exit the scene. And with cancer,

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Speaker 1: all of that almost is flip-flopped.

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Speaker 2: It is. And again, like cancer are just cells in

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Speaker 2: your body that have become damaged or you inherited them

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Speaker 2: with damage and And like they just happen, but your

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Speaker 2: body has all sorts of defenses to get rid of

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Speaker 2: them as like waste and it handles it. Right. So

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Speaker 2: this isn't just like tumors we're talking about. This actually

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Speaker 2: applies to any kind of cancer cell. They never stop dividing,

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Speaker 2: which is one of the things we said at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Uncontrolled cell division and growth is essentially how you die

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Speaker 2: from cancer. Right. Either. the cells accumulate into a tumor

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Speaker 2: that crowds out the healthy cells and keeps them from

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Speaker 2: doing their thing. So if it's liver cancer, your liver

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Speaker 2: can't filter enough stuff out anymore and that you die

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Speaker 2: from organ or systemic failure because the cancer cells have

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Speaker 2: just crowded out the healthy cells.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So like we said, it's a genetic mutation that's

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Speaker 1: going on and some DNA changes are going to like

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Speaker 1: raise the levels of proteins to keep the cell growing.

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Speaker 1: Others might lower levels of a protein that tells it

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Speaker 1: when to stop growing. Sometimes it'll, you know, the ones

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Speaker 1: that we talked about, it'll not have, and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about the specific protein, I guess, is why we can,

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Speaker 1: why wait? It's p53.

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Speaker 2: That was going to be suspenseful for a second.

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Speaker 1: I know. P53 is the one that basically is like

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Speaker 1: the switch that tells a cell like, hey, we've done

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Speaker 1: our job. It's time to go. So one DNA mutation

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Speaker 1: might not tell that P53 gene to express itself. And

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Speaker 1: they think, scientists think that more than one DNA change

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Speaker 1: has to occur for a healthy cell to turn cancerous.

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Speaker 1: So if you have an inherited genetic related change or something,

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Speaker 1: you might need fewer additional changes to develop that cancer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's not like when you develop a carcinoma,

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Speaker 2: a skin cancer, like that's the first time you've ever

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Speaker 2: developed cancer right there or a potentially cancerous cell. Like,

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Speaker 2: It's not like you were just touched by the sun

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Speaker 2: once and all of a sudden you have cancer. It's

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Speaker 2: just not how it works. Instead, you have those cells

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Speaker 2: happening all the time, but they have built-in mechanisms to

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Speaker 2: reprogram themselves to basically take care of the damaged genes

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Speaker 2: and turn them off or on. Or like you said,

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Speaker 2: the wrong genes are off or on, ones that have

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with a cell turning cancerous. Or again,

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Speaker 2: if it does turn cancerous, the body's immune system can

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Speaker 2: come take care of it. Right. And that's why you

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Speaker 2: why you have to have more than one genetic mutation,

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Speaker 2: because it sells pretty good at repairing itself. And if

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Speaker 2: it's not P53 comes up like a like a boxing

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Speaker 2: manager and like, you know, smacks your face and wants

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Speaker 2: to see if you if they need to throw in

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Speaker 2: the towel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And if you have too many genetic mutations, it's going

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Speaker 2: to throw in the towel for you, and you're going

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Speaker 2: to have to undergo apoptosis.

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Speaker 1: That's right. You know, we talked about tumors. We're going

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Speaker 1: to be talking more about that, obviously. But there's also

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Speaker 1: something like leukemia. There are cancers of the blood where

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Speaker 1: you don't form a tumor. But the blood cells, again,

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Speaker 1: they just replicate such that they crowd out the healthy ones.

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Speaker 1: And it's all doing this because they express– How would

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Speaker 1: you say that? Telomerase?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Okay. And that keeps the telomeres lengthened. The telomere is

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Speaker 1: what allows the cell to divide, and they kind of

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Speaker 1: dwindle down over time. But if they're expressing that telomerase,

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Speaker 1: it's lengthened and it wears out a little more slowly

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Speaker 1: so that tumor can just keep dividing and growing, basically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the other reasons they're so quick to

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Speaker 2: divide is that they don't stick around long enough or

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Speaker 2: they don't wait to divide. long enough to mature. And

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Speaker 2: like you said, healthy cells divide, mature, and then become specialized.

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Speaker 2: They get their assignment. And tumor cells or cancer cells

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Speaker 2: just don't, they just divide too quickly to ever mature.

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Speaker 2: And so as they're doing that, they pick up all

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Speaker 2: sorts of new genetic mutations. So the cells of a

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Speaker 2: tumor can have a bunch of different, genetically different cells

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Speaker 2: because it just starts getting so out of hand. Like

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Speaker 2: I guess- At the very beginning of a tumor, the

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Speaker 2: cells are probably still relatively similar. But by the time

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Speaker 2: you have a big old tumor, it's just this big

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Speaker 2: mass of a bunch of weirdo cells that kind of

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Speaker 2: like multiplicity with Michael Keaton.

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Speaker 1: Right. That's right. And this is I mean, cancer can

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Speaker 1: really be insidious when you think about what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Cancer cells can also recruit normal normal cells near a tumor.

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Speaker 1: to like develop new blood vessels and stuff to help

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Speaker 1: keep the tumor alive and like help it kind of

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Speaker 1: thrive and help it grow. It's like, hey, here's more

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Speaker 1: oxygen and more nutrients because cancer cells are recruiting other

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Speaker 1: cells and like turning them to the dark side.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's one other thing that they found recently

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Speaker 2: is not only can they recruit cells to create new

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Speaker 2: blood vessels for them, they can recruit neurons nearby and

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Speaker 2: they send phony messages to the brain which then in

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Speaker 2: turn sends out this, I can't remember the name of it,

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Speaker 2: but it's an immune cell whose job is to basically

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Speaker 2: tell all the other immune cells like, hey, you can

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Speaker 2: just relax. Everything's all clear. So the brain sends those

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Speaker 2: to where the tumor is and the tumor recruits them

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Speaker 2: and surrounds itself with a bunch of immune cells that

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Speaker 2: tell the body nothing to see here. Keep moving on.

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Speaker 2: That's what cancer cells do. That's insane that like something

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Speaker 2: can evolve and adapt that quickly because we're talking about

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Speaker 2: it doing this on the order of like months or

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Speaker 2: a few years, maybe. It's just crazy what cancer is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. All right. I think maybe we should

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Speaker 1: take a break.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm starting to get worked up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a good table setting. And we'll come

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Speaker 1: back and talk about types of cancer right after this.

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Speaker 1: All right, so we're back to talk about types of cancer.

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Speaker 1: Like you mentioned from the jump, there are more than

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Speaker 1: 200 types of cancer because there are more than 200

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Speaker 1: types of cells in the body, and that's no coincidence, obviously.

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Speaker 1: They're basically classified according to where they start in the body.

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Speaker 1: But that also means that, you know, you can get

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Speaker 1: cancer of almost anything anywhere in the body.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And again, I said the most common one is

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Speaker 2: a carcinoma. I think 85% of all cancers are carcinomas,

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Speaker 2: and those start with epithelial tissue or cells, which or

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Speaker 2: like the outside layer of your organs, they make up tissue,

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Speaker 2: the skin. And again, it's just because all of us

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Speaker 2: are exposed to the sun over the course of our lifetimes.

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Speaker 2: And eventually, I guess it's just a game of odds

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Speaker 2: that can, you know, some of those cancer cells can

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Speaker 2: just overwhelm the immune system as we get older because

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Speaker 2: our immune system declines, which is one of the joys

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Speaker 2: of aging, it turns out.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Lymphoma makes up about 5% of cases. That starts, obviously,

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Speaker 1: in the lymph glands. uh, in the lymphatic system and

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Speaker 1: the lymphatic system obviously runs throughout your entire body. So

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Speaker 1: a lymphoma can start almost anywhere. Um, if you've ever

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Speaker 1: heard of a non Hodgkin lymphoma, which is the most

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Speaker 1: common or Hodgkin lymphoma, which is Hodgkin's disease. Uh, those

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Speaker 1: are the two major subtypes of lymphoma. And, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: there is some irony here for sure, because the lymph systems, um,

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Speaker 1: clears out cancerous cells from your body as waste. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: That's definitely a cruel one.

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Speaker 2: There's also leukemia, which is cancer of white blood cells

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Speaker 2: that begins in the bone marrow. And that's where white

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Speaker 2: blood cells are formed along with red blood cells. And strangely,

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Speaker 2: no one has any idea why, but this is the

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Speaker 2: most common type of cancer in children. Adults can get

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Speaker 2: it too. But if you are a child with cancer,

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Speaker 2: it's most likely leukemia, and they just don't understand what

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Speaker 2: the problem is there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Brain and spinal cord cancer is probably one of

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Speaker 1: the scariest kinds when you just sort of hear those words,

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Speaker 1: like brain tumor. But, you know, I have known people

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Speaker 1: who have had brain tumors who are doing just fine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They are central nervous system cancers. And then at, I

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Speaker 1: think that's 3% of all cancers, right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then what do we have at 1%?

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Speaker 2: Myeloma is another one that starts in the bone marrow.

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Speaker 2: This is plasma cells, which make up the liquid part

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Speaker 2: of your blood. But it's also a type of white

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Speaker 2: blood cell. So it's created in the bone marrow. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, wait, that's two types of bone marrow cancers.

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Speaker 2: And it turns out the bone marrow is called a

393
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Speaker 2: metastatic niche cancer. Because it's a magnet for some types

394
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Speaker 2: of cancer cells that go to the bone marrow and

395
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Speaker 2: just set up shop there. This is like an embarrassment

396
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Speaker 2: of riches for all the stuff the cancer can use

397
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Speaker 2: to recruit and protect itself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And then also 1%, we have sarcoma. That begins

399
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Speaker 1: in the connective tissue or the supportive tissue, like maybe

400
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Speaker 1: in your muscle and your blood vessels and your fat

401
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Speaker 1: or cartilage or even bone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Chuck, because there's so many different kinds of cancers

403
00:22:54,660 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 2: and they do all sorts of different stuff, I've read

404
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Speaker 2: that essentially every case of cancer is totally unique because

405
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 2: every person's body is totally unique. And so they stage them.

406
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Speaker 2: They basically describe them in different terms. And the two

407
00:23:09,859 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: things that they base the descriptions on most are size

408
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Speaker 2: and growth. And the whole thing starts with stage zero cancer.

409
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,290
Speaker 2: It goes from stage zero to stage four. And stage

410
00:23:19,330 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: zero is like you technically don't have cancer. It can

411
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Speaker 2: be precancerous cells. You just have a spot that's acting

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Speaker 2: a little weird. And it's mostly curable because the cancer

413
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Speaker 2: hasn't undergone one of the things that makes cancer so

414
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Speaker 2: hard to treat. It hasn't spread to the surrounding tissues.

415
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Speaker 2: So you can just go in, cut out the little growth,

416
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Speaker 2: and you just got all the cancer. You're not leaving

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Speaker 2: anything behind. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Here at Stuff You Should Know, we love stage zero cancer.

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Speaker 2: It's our favorite kind of cancer.

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Speaker 1: As far as cancers go, this is the one we're behind.

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00:23:54,990 --> 00:23:55,449
Speaker 2: For sure.

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Speaker 1: We're not afraid to say it.

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Speaker 2: For sure. It even looks pretty. It's got that nice

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Speaker 2: round O in the middle.

425
00:24:00,090 --> 00:24:02,370
Speaker 1: Yeah, but nothing in the center of that thing. Right.

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Speaker 1: Of course, you have stage one next. They go stage one, two, three,

427
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,980
Speaker 1: and four. Stage one is, you know, it's a little

428
00:24:10,020 --> 00:24:14,500
Speaker 1: bit more cancer. It's smaller, obviously not smaller than zero,

429
00:24:14,540 --> 00:24:17,620
Speaker 1: but smaller than two. It's contained to one area, has

430
00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:21,790
Speaker 1: not spread to the lymph nodes or other areas. which

431
00:24:21,869 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: is basically where you get to in stage two is

432
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Speaker 1: the tumor is going to be larger and it may

433
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Speaker 1: have spread to the lymph nodes at this point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's almost certainly spread to the surrounding tissue too,

435
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 2: but it's kind of invisible. The tumor is quite obvious,

436
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: but the spread around the tumor is not quite visible.

437
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,790
Speaker 2: So it makes it harder to get rid of through surgery.

438
00:24:45,869 --> 00:24:50,229
Speaker 2: Stage three, it's grown larger. even bigger and into deeper

439
00:24:50,430 --> 00:24:54,619
Speaker 2: into the surrounding tissues. And it also has probably spread

440
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,620
Speaker 2: to nearby lymph nodes. And then once it spreads, once

441
00:24:58,700 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: it metastasizes, what it's called, you have entered stage four.

442
00:25:04,030 --> 00:25:08,270
Speaker 1: That's right. That means it's definitely spread outside its original place,

443
00:25:09,070 --> 00:25:12,470
Speaker 1: probably to other organs or anywhere in your body, really.

444
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:15,710
Speaker 1: And that is metastatic cancer. You may also hear a

445
00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:19,260
Speaker 1: letter sometimes in a diagnosis like stage 2A, and the

446
00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:22,860
Speaker 1: letter will describe an aggressiveness with A being the least

447
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,219
Speaker 1: aggressive all the way up to D being the most aggressive.

448
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,010
Speaker 2: Right. And then words like remission and cure are also used.

449
00:25:32,290 --> 00:25:36,190
Speaker 2: Remission is where the cancer is. It basically describes how

450
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:39,250
Speaker 2: the cancer is responding to the treatment, right? if the

451
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:42,210
Speaker 2: cancer is on its heels and it's shrinking and it's

452
00:25:42,270 --> 00:25:45,490
Speaker 2: doing all the stuff you want it to do through treatment,

453
00:25:45,910 --> 00:25:50,380
Speaker 2: it's in remission. That would be partial remission. Complete remission

454
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 2: is where you've treated the cancer and it can no

455
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,899
Speaker 2: longer be detected in the body. But that doesn't mean

456
00:25:57,100 --> 00:26:01,139
Speaker 2: that it's cured. That's like a whole different term. Yeah.

457
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,420
Speaker 1: I mean, cure is a sort of a dicey word

458
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: when it comes to cancer. Um, That's basically complete remission,

459
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:11,500
Speaker 1: meaning there's no evidence of the disease. And even though

460
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,790
Speaker 1: there may be a risk of reoccurrence if you're cured,

461
00:26:16,550 --> 00:26:18,630
Speaker 1: basically like five years is what you said. If you're

462
00:26:18,690 --> 00:26:21,470
Speaker 1: in complete remission for five years, you can kind of

463
00:26:22,170 --> 00:26:24,730
Speaker 1: stamp that cure on your forehead proudly.

464
00:26:25,310 --> 00:26:30,250
Speaker 2: I think that doctors are kind of like, I don't

465
00:26:30,290 --> 00:26:32,369
Speaker 2: like to use that word. They're just nervous about it

466
00:26:32,430 --> 00:26:34,250
Speaker 2: coming back, you know? Yeah.

467
00:26:34,730 --> 00:26:37,109
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know any doctors. Well, I do

468
00:26:37,130 --> 00:26:40,630
Speaker 1: know some doctors actually, but I haven't asked them like

469
00:26:41,210 --> 00:26:43,390
Speaker 1: how they feel about the language around it, you know?

470
00:26:43,609 --> 00:26:45,830
Speaker 2: Yeah. We'll wait if you want to get in touch

471
00:26:45,850 --> 00:26:46,050
Speaker 2: with them.

472
00:26:46,670 --> 00:26:49,690
Speaker 1: No, but we'll hear from doctors, I'm sure.

473
00:26:49,710 --> 00:26:50,929
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope so.

474
00:26:51,050 --> 00:26:54,270
Speaker 1: And patients. I'm looking forward to getting emails from all

475
00:26:54,290 --> 00:26:55,090
Speaker 1: kinds of people on this.

476
00:26:55,369 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: For sure.

477
00:26:56,340 --> 00:26:58,820
Speaker 1: So the history is, you know, we're not going to

478
00:26:58,859 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: get too in the weeds because it's basically a situation

479
00:27:02,619 --> 00:27:07,410
Speaker 1: where They thought black bile was what, you know, caused

480
00:27:07,490 --> 00:27:10,650
Speaker 1: death and disease for many hundreds of years, probably thousands.

481
00:27:11,550 --> 00:27:14,190
Speaker 1: And then there was a Dutch scientist, the father of anatomy,

482
00:27:14,690 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: Andreas Vesalius, who finally said, you know what? I've looked

483
00:27:20,580 --> 00:27:22,340
Speaker 1: at a lot of dead bodies. I even stole some

484
00:27:22,380 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: corpses to make it happen. And guess what, everyone? There's

485
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,860
Speaker 1: no black bile in the body. And everyone was like, well,

486
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,380
Speaker 1: why are people dying? That took a little bit longer,

487
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: I think. In 1793, there was an anatomist in London

488
00:27:37,180 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: named Matthew Bailey.

489
00:27:39,580 --> 00:27:40,340
Speaker 2: That's what I'm going with.

490
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, who was like, all right, here's real proof, everyone,

491
00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:48,420
Speaker 1: that cancer isn't black bile. It's, you know, we found

492
00:27:48,460 --> 00:27:50,810
Speaker 1: out that tumors can grow in the body really fast.

493
00:27:51,010 --> 00:27:54,410
Speaker 1: And for a long, long time, it was let's let's

494
00:27:54,650 --> 00:27:57,129
Speaker 1: cut that stuff out of the body and see what happens.

495
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, because surgeons were like, oh, it's a tumor. We

496
00:27:59,859 --> 00:28:02,180
Speaker 2: can get rid of that. And I think at first

497
00:28:02,260 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: they thought this is around 1850 when it really kicked off.

498
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:09,540
Speaker 2: They initially thought, like, we can totally take care of

499
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,379
Speaker 2: cancer from now on. But what they figured out over time,

500
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,250
Speaker 2: because some of their patients that they treated would come

501
00:28:16,330 --> 00:28:18,830
Speaker 2: down with cancer again, like a year later or something

502
00:28:18,869 --> 00:28:22,230
Speaker 2: like that, was that that cancer would spread kind of

503
00:28:22,350 --> 00:28:25,629
Speaker 2: invisibly deeper into the tissue later. And that just getting

504
00:28:25,690 --> 00:28:28,060
Speaker 2: rid of the tumor wasn't enough because it left too

505
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: much of the cancerous cells to reproliferate and grow again.

506
00:28:32,260 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. And, you know, very sadly, they were like, you know,

507
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,340
Speaker 1: because I think they were so thrilled by the advent

508
00:28:39,380 --> 00:28:43,470
Speaker 1: of successful surgery that they were a little scalpel happy

509
00:28:43,710 --> 00:28:46,750
Speaker 1: and were like, we'll just keep removing stuff then because

510
00:28:46,790 --> 00:28:50,330
Speaker 1: that's how you cure this thing. And that left, you know,

511
00:28:50,370 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: some disfiguration a lot of times when they just kept

512
00:28:54,540 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: getting rid of pieces of your body. And it took

513
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: a long time. It took decades before they finally figured

514
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: out that it was a systemic thing and finally understood

515
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: what metastasization is. And then they came up with better treatments,

516
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,100
Speaker 1: starting with x-rays in 1895, right? Mm-hmm.

517
00:29:15,220 --> 00:29:18,410
Speaker 2: That's where they were discovered. And as little as a

518
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:24,050
Speaker 2: year later, an American medical student named Emil Gruber he

519
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:26,350
Speaker 2: was like, I'm going to try to use those to

520
00:29:26,410 --> 00:29:30,230
Speaker 2: treat cancer. And he was successful. He successfully treated a

521
00:29:30,270 --> 00:29:33,810
Speaker 2: patient with breast cancer using x-rays. So now you've got radiation,

522
00:29:33,870 --> 00:29:36,710
Speaker 2: which you can go in and cut the tumor out,

523
00:29:36,810 --> 00:29:39,950
Speaker 2: and then you can irradiate what's left. And now things

524
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:40,770
Speaker 2: are starting to cook.

525
00:29:41,210 --> 00:29:43,910
Speaker 1: Yeah, things are starting to cook a little bit. Chemotherapy

526
00:29:44,030 --> 00:29:47,450
Speaker 1: enters the scene, thanks to kind of a weird story.

527
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: But in the U.S. Army, doctors were conducting autopsies on

528
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,140
Speaker 1: soldiers who died from mustard gas exposure And they're like, hey,

529
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: this gas is attacking white blood cells. So they developed

530
00:30:01,060 --> 00:30:05,790
Speaker 1: a derivative of mustard gas called mechlorethamine. And that became

531
00:30:05,810 --> 00:30:09,010
Speaker 1: the first chemo drug in the 1940s. And they still

532
00:30:09,250 --> 00:30:12,110
Speaker 1: use that sometimes for some types of lymphoma, I think.

533
00:30:12,530 --> 00:30:15,110
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's a disease of your white blood cells, right?

534
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:16,330
Speaker 1: Yeah.

535
00:30:16,450 --> 00:30:20,020
Speaker 2: There's a guy who is basically synonymous with chemotherapy. His

536
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:25,030
Speaker 2: name is Sidney Farber. The Dana-Farber Cancer Institute is named

537
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:29,060
Speaker 2: after him, and it is world-renowned. And it's also, I found,

538
00:30:29,100 --> 00:30:33,020
Speaker 2: a really great resource for info, really understandable but detailed

539
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,219
Speaker 2: info on cancer. Yeah. He came up with a cancer

540
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: drug for treating leukemia in children, aminopterin, I think is

541
00:30:41,740 --> 00:30:44,580
Speaker 2: what it was called. And that was back in 1947.

542
00:30:44,580 --> 00:30:48,990
Speaker 2: So if you see photos of him after 1947, he

543
00:30:49,070 --> 00:30:51,010
Speaker 2: usually has a little halo over his head.

544
00:30:51,290 --> 00:30:51,430
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

545
00:30:52,860 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: The thing is, and we're going to see this after

546
00:30:55,100 --> 00:31:01,530
Speaker 2: we take a break, but chemotherapy is a very blunt instrument, right?

547
00:31:02,170 --> 00:31:07,010
Speaker 2: I've heard a kind of an oncological gallows humor before

548
00:31:07,050 --> 00:31:11,030
Speaker 2: that basically says, with chemotherapy, you're trying to kill the

549
00:31:11,090 --> 00:31:13,940
Speaker 2: tumor before you kill the patient. Yeah. Because it just

550
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 2: goes in and it wipes out so much stuff that

551
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: you don't want to wipe out. It's just not very targeted. Yeah.

552
00:31:23,050 --> 00:31:26,330
Speaker 2: But again, as we'll see, it's gotten a lot better

553
00:31:26,810 --> 00:31:27,350
Speaker 2: over time.

554
00:31:27,810 --> 00:31:31,730
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot better to take thanks to some

555
00:31:31,770 --> 00:31:35,550
Speaker 1: great new nausea drugs because nausea and fatigue are two

556
00:31:35,570 --> 00:31:37,580
Speaker 1: of the biggest rough parts of chemotherapy.

557
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard that for sure.

558
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:42,620
Speaker 1: All right, should we take our second break?

559
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:43,700
Speaker 2: Yes, please.

560
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,780
Speaker 1: All right, we're going to come back and we're going

561
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,100
Speaker 1: to talk about treatment because there's a lot of great

562
00:31:48,140 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: stuff going on, you guys. We'll be right back.

563
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,990
Speaker 2: So, Chuck, two things. The first one is I've always

564
00:32:21,030 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: wondered if cancer was actually a relatively recent thing, like

565
00:32:24,220 --> 00:32:27,250
Speaker 2: maybe from... the industrial revolution on.

566
00:32:27,310 --> 00:32:28,730
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. I used to wonder that too.

567
00:32:29,050 --> 00:32:33,970
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. I mean, I think Imhotep described it 4,700

568
00:32:33,970 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: years ago, breast cancer. So it's been around a really

569
00:32:37,980 --> 00:32:41,060
Speaker 2: long time. The reason it's only kind of recently come

570
00:32:41,220 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: under investigation and study is because we used to die

571
00:32:45,660 --> 00:32:48,780
Speaker 2: from a bunch of other stuff, mostly communicable diseases and

572
00:32:49,930 --> 00:32:52,530
Speaker 2: rather than cancer. It was pretty low on the list.

573
00:32:52,570 --> 00:32:54,270
Speaker 2: And then as we started to take care of those

574
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:59,050
Speaker 2: other communicable diseases, then cancer suddenly became a much bigger

575
00:32:59,090 --> 00:33:00,530
Speaker 2: problem than it had been before.

576
00:33:01,270 --> 00:33:04,860
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And the reason that we haven't, you know,

577
00:33:05,780 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: developed like a complete just cure-all for cancer is because

578
00:33:09,380 --> 00:33:12,780
Speaker 1: that no two cancers are the same. They all develop

579
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,700
Speaker 1: in different ways. And they're doing a lot of research

580
00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:19,090
Speaker 1: You know, we'll talk about some of the like more

581
00:33:19,130 --> 00:33:22,930
Speaker 1: breakthrough stuff they're doing. But right now, what the standard

582
00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: practice kind of still is, if you have a malignant tumor,

583
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: is to shrink that tumor with targeted radiation and then

584
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,140
Speaker 1: remove that tumor and then prescribe a course of chemotherapy,

585
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,030
Speaker 1: which is probably like more than one chemotherapy drug to

586
00:33:39,230 --> 00:33:43,090
Speaker 1: eradicate what cancer is remaining in your body and to

587
00:33:43,310 --> 00:33:46,510
Speaker 1: hopefully stave off metastasis. Yeah.

588
00:33:47,670 --> 00:33:52,260
Speaker 2: And you'll do that round of chemotherapy, wait a little while,

589
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,500
Speaker 2: and then they'll test you and see what effects it had.

590
00:33:54,940 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: And then if it's still there, you do another round,

591
00:33:56,740 --> 00:34:00,460
Speaker 2: another round and test after each time until eventually they're like,

592
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,850
Speaker 2: we can't detect cancer anymore. And now you're in full remission,

593
00:34:04,330 --> 00:34:05,230
Speaker 2: hopefully forever.

594
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:09,390
Speaker 1: Yeah. If you don't have a tumor, like you said earlier,

595
00:34:09,410 --> 00:34:12,630
Speaker 1: if it's like a cancer of the blood, chemotherapy is

596
00:34:12,650 --> 00:34:18,630
Speaker 1: your main defense there. and probably radiation as well. And also,

597
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:21,450
Speaker 1: you've probably heard of like a bone marrow transplant or

598
00:34:21,510 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: stem cell transplant.

599
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

600
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,660
Speaker 1: That's also used in cases like leukemia.

601
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,300
Speaker 2: I was looking into that, and it's apparently not nearly

602
00:34:28,340 --> 00:34:31,020
Speaker 2: as bad as it's been made out to be. Everyone's like,

603
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: it's the most painful thing you could possibly do. And also,

604
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 2: apparently only 10% of people who apply to be donors

605
00:34:37,420 --> 00:34:40,669
Speaker 2: actually end up donating marrow. Most of the others, their

606
00:34:40,770 --> 00:34:44,710
Speaker 2: plasma will do instead. So you end up basically donating blood.

607
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: Uh, chemotherapy, like I mentioned before the break is, um,

608
00:34:50,180 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: a lot better than it was even like 10 or

609
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,270
Speaker 1: 15 years ago because this, uh, serotonin antagonist, which is

610
00:34:56,310 --> 00:35:00,049
Speaker 1: a new class of anti-nausea drugs really can help block, uh,

611
00:35:00,110 --> 00:35:01,610
Speaker 1: block the nausea receptors in the brain.

612
00:35:01,730 --> 00:35:01,950
Speaker 2: Right.

613
00:35:02,730 --> 00:35:04,779
Speaker 1: And I know, you know, just from like family and

614
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,210
Speaker 1: stuff that that's, That was one of the worst parts.

615
00:35:08,250 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: And I'm sure it's still no picnic, but those have

616
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:10,980
Speaker 1: really helped.

617
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,620
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, just what a horrible thing going in

618
00:35:14,660 --> 00:35:17,300
Speaker 2: to get chemotherapy, knowing that you're going to get horribly

619
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,260
Speaker 2: nauseated for a while. The dread has to be really serious,

620
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 2: you know? Yeah.

621
00:35:23,780 --> 00:35:28,770
Speaker 1: I mean, one of our friends of you and me

622
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:34,420
Speaker 1: have recently underwent cancer, the jaw surgery. And Boy, the

623
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: way he described just the pain of that surgery and

624
00:35:38,060 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: what he felt like the next day was was brutal.

625
00:35:43,020 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: I don't think I have the exact words here on

626
00:35:44,540 --> 00:35:46,060
Speaker 1: my on my text. I don't know if I'd read

627
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,259
Speaker 1: him anyway, but he basically was like he felt like

628
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,049
Speaker 1: he'd gotten run over by a truck. And that was

629
00:35:51,110 --> 00:35:52,790
Speaker 1: just like post post-op.

630
00:35:53,150 --> 00:35:56,049
Speaker 2: I mean, geez, that was just after the surgery, you say?

631
00:35:56,830 --> 00:35:59,230
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. But he's doing great.

632
00:35:59,570 --> 00:35:59,770
Speaker 2: Good.

633
00:36:00,310 --> 00:36:00,590
Speaker 1: Good.

634
00:36:00,630 --> 00:36:04,910
Speaker 2: I'm glad. So, yeah, surgery is a big part of it.

635
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:09,009
Speaker 2: If it's a tumor, obviously, if it's a cancer of

636
00:36:09,030 --> 00:36:10,730
Speaker 2: the blood and there's no tumor, they're not doing that,

637
00:36:10,750 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 2: like you said. But you promised cutting edge stuff, right?

638
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,339
Speaker 2: And something that is still, you can kind of call

639
00:36:18,380 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 2: it cutting edge just because it's so gee whiz, but

640
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,410
Speaker 2: it's starting to become much more prevalent and available throughout

641
00:36:25,489 --> 00:36:29,690
Speaker 2: the West. It's a form of immunotherapy, right? which is

642
00:36:29,730 --> 00:36:34,489
Speaker 2: basically training your immune system to target cancer cells in

643
00:36:34,530 --> 00:36:38,089
Speaker 2: the same way that it targets foreign invaders. Because again,

644
00:36:38,130 --> 00:36:41,740
Speaker 2: cancer is not a foreign invader, and it's very, very

645
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 2: clever at using the body's own immune system to prevent

646
00:36:46,540 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 2: it from being attacked, right? I was thinking about this, Chuck.

647
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,620
Speaker 2: Cancer is like one of those rogue agents in a

648
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 2: movie that was trained by the very agency that now.

649
00:36:57,300 --> 00:37:00,690
Speaker 1: Seeks to kill it. Yeah, it's a good metaphor.

650
00:37:01,710 --> 00:37:03,629
Speaker 2: Thanks, man. I've been working on it for a couple

651
00:37:03,650 --> 00:37:04,210
Speaker 2: of weeks now.

652
00:37:05,630 --> 00:37:08,410
Speaker 1: So, yeah, you know, your body generally does a pretty

653
00:37:08,430 --> 00:37:10,089
Speaker 1: good job of doing that kind of thing, but not

654
00:37:10,110 --> 00:37:12,549
Speaker 1: in the case of cancer. So they're working on therapies that,

655
00:37:12,690 --> 00:37:15,390
Speaker 1: like you said, can train your body to do that.

656
00:37:16,030 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: And I guess the leading or I guess one of

657
00:37:18,260 --> 00:37:22,859
Speaker 1: the leading methods is called CAR T-cell therapy. In this case,

658
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,980
Speaker 1: the CAR stands for chimeric antigen receptor, which is a

659
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,439
Speaker 1: targeted receptor for for the type of cancer cells that

660
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:31,460
Speaker 1: invade your body.

661
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 2: Right. So they basically just take some of your blood,

662
00:37:34,860 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 2: they separate the T cells, your immune cells, out of it,

663
00:37:38,380 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 2: and they use CRISPR. Did we do a whole episode

664
00:37:41,700 --> 00:37:44,339
Speaker 2: on CRISPR, the gene editing technology? I feel like we did.

665
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: It was either a whole episode or it came up

666
00:37:46,900 --> 00:37:48,980
Speaker 1: pretty heavily in more than one back in the day.

667
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:52,969
Speaker 2: Okay. But it's a tool for basically you use a

668
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:55,569
Speaker 2: virus that has the genes you want in it, and

669
00:37:55,590 --> 00:37:58,989
Speaker 2: the virus is... whatever disease it spreads is turned off.

670
00:37:59,350 --> 00:38:02,819
Speaker 2: And you insert that into like a T cell. And

671
00:38:02,890 --> 00:38:05,219
Speaker 2: now the T cell has the genes you want. And

672
00:38:05,260 --> 00:38:09,299
Speaker 2: those genes get the T cell to express the same

673
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,540
Speaker 2: proteins that are in that kind of cancer So now

674
00:38:12,580 --> 00:38:14,580
Speaker 2: you put the T cells back in you after you

675
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: proliferate them for a while. And there's a bunch of

676
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,550
Speaker 2: T cells running around telling the rest of your immune system,

677
00:38:19,610 --> 00:38:21,989
Speaker 2: look for this. Do you see this protein right here?

678
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:24,830
Speaker 2: This is what we're looking for. And in other cases,

679
00:38:25,170 --> 00:38:27,910
Speaker 2: it can cause T cells to grow the kind of

680
00:38:27,969 --> 00:38:32,090
Speaker 2: receptors that it needs to attack and latch on to cancer,

681
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:35,510
Speaker 2: just like it would any foreign invader. So I have

682
00:38:35,780 --> 00:38:39,100
Speaker 2: a neighbor friend who underwent CAR T cell therapy.

683
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,010
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing. Some other gene therapy techniques that are,

684
00:38:44,340 --> 00:38:47,810
Speaker 1: I guess, still in the testing stage, we mentioned that

685
00:38:47,850 --> 00:38:51,890
Speaker 1: p53 protein. That's the one that says, like, hey, we've

686
00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:54,730
Speaker 1: done our job. It's time to self-destruct. And that's the

687
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:57,950
Speaker 1: one cancer cells don't have. So some gene therapy techniques

688
00:38:58,469 --> 00:39:02,750
Speaker 1: include turning on that p53 protein in cancer cells so

689
00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:05,110
Speaker 1: they either self-destruct or at least stop dividing.

690
00:39:06,010 --> 00:39:06,170
Speaker 2: Right.

691
00:39:06,580 --> 00:39:07,020
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

692
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's others that there's genes that basically turn the

693
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,430
Speaker 2: cells into magnets for immune cells. And then I saw

694
00:39:14,469 --> 00:39:18,209
Speaker 2: another one where they can turn the they can make

695
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:24,469
Speaker 2: the cancer cell mature finally. Right. And so they.

696
00:39:23,890 --> 00:39:26,530
Speaker 1: Will have a job basically.

697
00:39:26,890 --> 00:39:29,210
Speaker 2: And get this. They found that the vast majority of

698
00:39:29,250 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 2: those cells. basically pull the plug. They undergo apoptosis, they self-destruct.

699
00:39:36,739 --> 00:39:39,300
Speaker 2: So they'd rather die than have a job, the cancer

700
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,580
Speaker 2: cells would. Isn't that crazy?

701
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: Cancer cells are Gen X, in other words.

702
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:45,550
Speaker 2: Pretty much.

703
00:39:46,770 --> 00:39:49,150
Speaker 1: Wow, that's that's incredible. I didn't know about that one.

704
00:39:49,830 --> 00:39:53,750
Speaker 1: They also have on the horizon personalized cancer vaccines. Right.

705
00:39:54,530 --> 00:39:58,010
Speaker 1: That's a new treatment designed to basically prime your immune

706
00:39:58,050 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: system to target cancer cells to reduce recurrence risk. And,

707
00:40:04,140 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: you know, obviously, hopefully like kind of fewer side effects

708
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: than something like chemotherapy.

709
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's not good that they use the word

710
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,779
Speaker 2: vaccines because it suggests that you can go get the

711
00:40:12,820 --> 00:40:14,910
Speaker 2: vaccine before you have cancer and they'll keep you from

712
00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: having cancer. And that's not the case. It's vaccine in

713
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,950
Speaker 2: the sense that it primes your immune system to fight

714
00:40:19,989 --> 00:40:24,090
Speaker 2: cancer better, but it's personalized, right? So they take your

715
00:40:24,670 --> 00:40:29,950
Speaker 2: cancer and examine it and then figure out what treatment

716
00:40:30,850 --> 00:40:34,390
Speaker 2: will best defeat your specific cancer. And that's part of

717
00:40:34,430 --> 00:40:36,910
Speaker 2: a larger kind of push that's going on now. It's

718
00:40:36,930 --> 00:40:42,350
Speaker 2: called precision oncology, which is you're studying the individual patient's

719
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:47,739
Speaker 2: cancer to defeat it. Now that we have genomic... scans

720
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,859
Speaker 2: that you can really kind of go through the DNA

721
00:40:50,910 --> 00:40:53,690
Speaker 2: of a cell pretty quickly and find the mutations and

722
00:40:53,710 --> 00:40:56,910
Speaker 2: then figure out how to use those mutations against the cancer. That's,

723
00:40:57,170 --> 00:41:00,750
Speaker 2: I mean, this is, it's a really great frontier that

724
00:41:00,770 --> 00:41:02,790
Speaker 2: we're on right now. It's very hopeful.

725
00:41:03,550 --> 00:41:05,950
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. You know, we do have done a

726
00:41:05,969 --> 00:41:08,700
Speaker 1: lot of AI poo-pooing on the show, but one of

727
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: the great benefits of AI is that it's already kind

728
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: of stepped up in cancer treatment and And sort of

729
00:41:16,420 --> 00:41:20,770
Speaker 1: cancer diagnoses, it seems like, like maybe having, along with

730
00:41:20,830 --> 00:41:25,270
Speaker 1: a human radiologist, having AI looking at radiology scans to

731
00:41:25,330 --> 00:41:30,250
Speaker 1: detect tumors that maybe a radiologist doesn't notice. Maybe also

732
00:41:30,310 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: to help predict risk. I know there's an AI MIT

733
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,700
Speaker 1: model that's able to predict a person's risk of developing

734
00:41:37,219 --> 00:41:41,339
Speaker 1: lung cancer six years in advance. And that's amazing because,

735
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,180
Speaker 1: you know, as we've kind of hammered home already, Like

736
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: the whole trick to cancer is getting an early diagnosis

737
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 1: and start going at it right away.

738
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the big money part right there is

739
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:59,739
Speaker 2: detecting it early. And because of things like screening and

740
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,060
Speaker 2: other kinds of detection that we have and routinely use

741
00:42:03,100 --> 00:42:06,450
Speaker 2: in the West, that's why cancer rates are going down.

742
00:42:06,930 --> 00:42:10,430
Speaker 2: But like I said before, the developing world is pushing

743
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:13,339
Speaker 2: cancer rates up So much so that the World Health

744
00:42:13,420 --> 00:42:18,850
Speaker 2: Organization is expecting cancer diagnoses to increase 77% by 2050

745
00:42:18,850 --> 00:42:27,690
Speaker 2: over 2023. So in just over 25 years, almost 100% increase.

746
00:42:27,730 --> 00:42:30,410
Speaker 2: I'm just going to say it. 77% is close enough

747
00:42:30,450 --> 00:42:33,530
Speaker 2: to 100% when we're talking about that level of increase

748
00:42:33,570 --> 00:42:34,830
Speaker 2: of cancer diagnoses.

749
00:42:35,730 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. You know, we talked a little bit

750
00:42:38,300 --> 00:42:43,450
Speaker 1: about risk factors already. things that you can control like alcohol, obesity,

751
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:48,580
Speaker 1: certainly tobacco and sun exposure, things like that. There is

752
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:54,859
Speaker 1: an interesting emerging field called psychoneuroimmunology, which is a branch

753
00:42:54,900 --> 00:42:58,020
Speaker 1: of Western medicine that acknowledges the effect of the brain

754
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,300
Speaker 1: or your mind really on the systems of the body.

755
00:43:01,620 --> 00:43:07,380
Speaker 1: And I don't think it's like a woo-woo stuff to

756
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: say that a real person real deep will to live

757
00:43:12,660 --> 00:43:17,430
Speaker 1: can make a difference if you're, you know, up against cancer.

758
00:43:18,350 --> 00:43:19,930
Speaker 1: And it can work the other way too. And I've

759
00:43:19,969 --> 00:43:22,330
Speaker 1: seen this as well when someone is like, you know what,

760
00:43:23,110 --> 00:43:26,689
Speaker 1: this isn't the life I want and I'm done because

761
00:43:26,730 --> 00:43:29,390
Speaker 1: it's just, it's time for me. And I've seen people

762
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:32,450
Speaker 1: go very quickly after someone has sort of made that decision.

763
00:43:32,530 --> 00:43:34,660
Speaker 1: So there's something to it for sure.

764
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,900
Speaker 2: Yeah, they definitely started to research that more and more.

765
00:43:37,940 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 2: It seems... kind of thin, the amount of it that's

766
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,739
Speaker 2: out now. But this investigation into what the will to

767
00:43:43,780 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 2: live is and then, yeah, like how to prime it

768
00:43:46,180 --> 00:43:50,890
Speaker 2: in people is it's definitely being investigated now. And it

769
00:43:50,930 --> 00:43:53,350
Speaker 2: does seem to be a thing for sure. Yeah.

770
00:43:53,570 --> 00:43:57,350
Speaker 1: And, you know, on that sort of last note around

771
00:43:57,370 --> 00:44:01,450
Speaker 1: the language, when someone has chosen to not continue treatment,

772
00:44:02,530 --> 00:44:04,670
Speaker 1: the way people talk about it is changing, I think,

773
00:44:04,969 --> 00:44:08,770
Speaker 1: probably for the better, because You know, you shouldn't say

774
00:44:08,810 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: like someone has given up the fight because it indicates

775
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: that they're like quitting something or surrendering. And that, in fact,

776
00:44:18,739 --> 00:44:21,660
Speaker 1: is like one of the bravest things you can do,

777
00:44:21,739 --> 00:44:22,030
Speaker 1: I think.

778
00:44:22,469 --> 00:44:26,930
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah. I mean, it's definitely because you're just

779
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:29,330
Speaker 2: saying like, OK, I'm accepting my fate. And that is

780
00:44:29,969 --> 00:44:34,069
Speaker 2: incredibly brave. Um, yeah. And not just saying like giving

781
00:44:34,130 --> 00:44:38,340
Speaker 2: up the battle with cancer, just using framing, cancer treatment

782
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 2: and cancer disease in terms of fighting and battling implies

783
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,940
Speaker 2: things like that, that, you know, you don't have the

784
00:44:45,980 --> 00:44:49,470
Speaker 2: guts to keep fighting, you know, or you're, you're quitting

785
00:44:49,530 --> 00:44:52,390
Speaker 2: or you're surrendering is another way to put it. Um,

786
00:44:52,590 --> 00:44:56,730
Speaker 2: and for some people, yes, like battle fighting, it definitely

787
00:44:56,770 --> 00:44:59,629
Speaker 2: inspires them. So no one's saying like, don't use those

788
00:44:59,670 --> 00:45:02,810
Speaker 2: terms anymore. It's just that for other people, they're like,

789
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:05,730
Speaker 2: I don't like this is making me feel bad. Like

790
00:45:05,810 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 2: I'm responsible for my own death. Those people, they're like,

791
00:45:10,620 --> 00:45:14,060
Speaker 2: you know, call it your journey with cancer, living with cancer,

792
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: treating your cancer, more neutral terms, less fighty terms. And

793
00:45:19,980 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 2: they just say, researchers say, follow the patient's lead on

794
00:45:24,860 --> 00:45:28,350
Speaker 2: which way, like how you frame the terms of cancer,

795
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:31,260
Speaker 2: living with cancer and treating cancer. And I mean, that's

796
00:45:31,469 --> 00:45:33,299
Speaker 2: super valid. For sure.

797
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,529
Speaker 1: And, and if you know someone in your life that is, is, uh,

798
00:45:37,170 --> 00:45:41,089
Speaker 1: accepted that it's, it's time for them, like that's when

799
00:45:41,110 --> 00:45:44,870
Speaker 1: they need like your, your support and love more than ever.

800
00:45:44,969 --> 00:45:48,150
Speaker 1: I think it's in, um, I mean, I would just

801
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:52,739
Speaker 1: recommend to not, uh, Not like be devastated in front

802
00:45:52,780 --> 00:45:53,460
Speaker 1: of them, at least.

803
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:53,899
Speaker 2: Right.

804
00:45:54,140 --> 00:45:56,910
Speaker 1: And to try and try and support that decision, you know,

805
00:45:56,930 --> 00:45:58,890
Speaker 1: because that's a that's a brave thing to accept.

806
00:45:59,070 --> 00:46:01,670
Speaker 2: That's got to be tough for a kid to understand

807
00:46:02,030 --> 00:46:03,230
Speaker 2: and accept, too, you know?

808
00:46:03,810 --> 00:46:04,049
Speaker 1: Yeah.

809
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:08,069
Speaker 2: There was a member that that episode of The Pit

810
00:46:08,210 --> 00:46:09,549
Speaker 2: that really dealt with that.

811
00:46:10,730 --> 00:46:12,790
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. That was Lord gut wrenching.

812
00:46:14,410 --> 00:46:17,130
Speaker 2: I've got one quick soapbox PSA. That's OK.

813
00:46:17,989 --> 00:46:18,529
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it.

814
00:46:18,700 --> 00:46:24,140
Speaker 2: So in the United States, mammograms are covered by insurance.

815
00:46:24,180 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 2: The problem is, is that you very often need a

816
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:33,450
Speaker 2: follow-up because they're like, this mammogram's good enough, but not quite.

817
00:46:33,489 --> 00:46:35,469
Speaker 2: There's this thing in here I want to see closer.

818
00:46:35,790 --> 00:46:38,810
Speaker 2: Let's take a look. And it's probably nothing. In most cases,

819
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:41,370
Speaker 2: it is nothing. But they do that because they're like,

820
00:46:41,390 --> 00:46:44,430
Speaker 2: we don't want to miss something that's really important. The

821
00:46:44,610 --> 00:46:48,739
Speaker 2: follow-up is, imaging is not covered by insurance. So there's

822
00:46:49,620 --> 00:46:51,700
Speaker 2: plenty of women out there who are like, I don't

823
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 2: have the money to pay out of pocket for a

824
00:46:54,020 --> 00:46:57,100
Speaker 2: CT scan. So I'm just not going to go get

825
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 2: the follow-up imaging and cross my fingers. So there's bills

826
00:47:00,500 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 2: floating around there, basically like insurance companies, you have to

827
00:47:03,660 --> 00:47:07,419
Speaker 2: cover all follow-up imaging as well. Like you can't just

828
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,939
Speaker 2: do the bare minimum. It's just not going to work

829
00:47:10,980 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 2: for people anymore, hopefully.

830
00:47:13,700 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. And mammograms suck. It's an awful process that's like

831
00:47:18,860 --> 00:47:23,140
Speaker 1: already there's an incentive to avoid something like that. So

832
00:47:24,140 --> 00:47:27,939
Speaker 1: insurance companies, we've ranted before, but they need to step

833
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:29,340
Speaker 1: it up in a lot of ways. That's certainly one

834
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: of them. And also, as we mentioned before, with the

835
00:47:32,940 --> 00:47:37,540
Speaker 1: increased rate of colorectal cancer in younger adults, make them

836
00:47:37,900 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: available to be covered in your 30s. There's probably not

837
00:47:41,980 --> 00:47:43,940
Speaker 1: a lot of 30-year-olds that have the gumption to be like,

838
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,569
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to go ahead and get

839
00:47:45,690 --> 00:47:49,550
Speaker 1: a colonoscopy at 35 years old. But if they want to,

840
00:47:50,590 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: then it should well be covered.

841
00:47:51,980 --> 00:47:56,700
Speaker 2: Totally. For sure. Wow. That was a good one, Chuck.

842
00:47:57,219 --> 00:48:00,380
Speaker 2: Nicely done. We made it. I would say, do you

843
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,259
Speaker 2: have anything else about cancer? But I know you do.

844
00:48:02,420 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 2: So we're just going to say this one's wrapped up.

845
00:48:05,739 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 1: That's right.

846
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,180
Speaker 2: Since we just wrapped this episode on cancer up, that

847
00:48:09,219 --> 00:48:11,010
Speaker 2: means it's time for listener mail, of course.

848
00:48:13,590 --> 00:48:16,190
Speaker 1: That's right. I'm going to finish with a very heartwarming story,

849
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:18,230
Speaker 1: which is a good way to end this one.

850
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:19,570
Speaker 2: Awesome.

851
00:48:19,770 --> 00:48:23,110
Speaker 1: This was from our phone books short stuff when we

852
00:48:23,150 --> 00:48:25,390
Speaker 1: talked about sort of randomly calling the wrong person with

853
00:48:25,410 --> 00:48:28,090
Speaker 1: the same name. Hey, guys, when I was 15, I

854
00:48:28,110 --> 00:48:29,890
Speaker 1: tried to call someone in our friend group. I looked

855
00:48:29,910 --> 00:48:32,110
Speaker 1: up the last name, found a long list of entries

856
00:48:32,130 --> 00:48:33,850
Speaker 1: and put a small dot and pin next to each

857
00:48:34,270 --> 00:48:36,950
Speaker 1: name of someone I thought lived in our school district.

858
00:48:37,010 --> 00:48:39,469
Speaker 1: I still have that phone book with the markings and

859
00:48:39,489 --> 00:48:42,100
Speaker 1: you'll see why. Thankfully, two towns in our area had

860
00:48:42,140 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 1: similar names, but went to different school districts. I didn't

861
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:46,700
Speaker 1: know that at the time, so I called over a

862
00:48:46,739 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: dozen numbers asking for my friend, who I never found.

863
00:48:50,180 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: But one guy answered. And when I asked, can I

864
00:48:52,390 --> 00:48:56,310
Speaker 1: please speak to name redacted? He answered, well, he isn't here,

865
00:48:56,410 --> 00:48:59,549
Speaker 1: but this is that name. And I answered, well, this

866
00:48:59,610 --> 00:49:02,350
Speaker 1: is Amanda, which is actually a fake name, guys, because

867
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:05,110
Speaker 1: the Boston song Amanda was out at the time. And

868
00:49:05,130 --> 00:49:06,370
Speaker 1: it was all I could think of on the spot.

869
00:49:07,130 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: The story's getting good. I think you see where it's headed.

870
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,140
Speaker 1: We spoke for 30 minutes on the phone about the

871
00:49:13,180 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: Mets who had just won the World Series and hung up.

872
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,670
Speaker 1: I then called back that guy once a week for

873
00:49:17,710 --> 00:49:21,850
Speaker 1: five months and we eventually decided to meet under a

874
00:49:21,930 --> 00:49:26,350
Speaker 1: streetlight on the corner. And dudes, we've been married for

875
00:49:26,350 --> 00:49:26,910
Speaker 1: 33 years.

876
00:49:27,570 --> 00:49:27,930
Speaker 2: Awesome.

877
00:49:28,910 --> 00:49:32,730
Speaker 1: Together for 39. And in December, our daughter is going

878
00:49:32,750 --> 00:49:36,330
Speaker 1: to get married. He is my person, my soulmate, my everything.

879
00:49:36,450 --> 00:49:38,189
Speaker 1: I'm a weirdo and he gets me and always has.

880
00:49:38,330 --> 00:49:39,509
Speaker 1: All because of a phone book.

881
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:41,339
Speaker 2: That is so great, man.

882
00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: To answer your question, yes, the other guy knows the

883
00:49:44,060 --> 00:49:45,700
Speaker 1: story and that he is the reason that I found

884
00:49:45,739 --> 00:49:47,469
Speaker 1: my husband. I don't think he could believe it. And

885
00:49:47,489 --> 00:49:50,089
Speaker 1: I sort of still can't really believe it myself after

886
00:49:50,130 --> 00:49:52,110
Speaker 1: all these years. Nowadays, it would be so unlikely to

887
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:54,830
Speaker 1: even pick up a call from an unknown number. So

888
00:49:54,910 --> 00:49:59,469
Speaker 1: thank you again for consistently creating such polished elite entertainment. Polished?

889
00:49:59,910 --> 00:50:00,280
Speaker 2: I know.

890
00:50:00,510 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 1: Elite?

891
00:50:01,540 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 2: Wow.

892
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,339
Speaker 1: Not two words we usually associate with ourselves.

893
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,900
Speaker 2: No, I think she's talking about the daily.

894
00:50:07,020 --> 00:50:08,919
Speaker 1: I think so. But that is from Laura, and Laura

895
00:50:08,940 --> 00:50:13,430
Speaker 1: sent pics of her and her huds in 1987, 1993,

896
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:15,989
Speaker 1: and one from this year. And it is adorable. He

897
00:50:16,030 --> 00:50:17,690
Speaker 1: had quite the mustache.

898
00:50:18,370 --> 00:50:20,850
Speaker 2: I saw that subject line. I haven't looked at the

899
00:50:20,930 --> 00:50:23,170
Speaker 2: email yet, so I have to run over and do that.

900
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:24,969
Speaker 2: What a great story, man.

901
00:50:25,110 --> 00:50:25,790
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it.

902
00:50:26,469 --> 00:50:27,130
Speaker 2: That was Laura?

903
00:50:27,310 --> 00:50:27,830
Speaker 1: That was Laura.

904
00:50:28,370 --> 00:50:31,570
Speaker 2: Thank you, Laura. That was... I don't know. That's a

905
00:50:31,620 --> 00:50:33,610
Speaker 2: contender for number one, maybe.

906
00:50:33,630 --> 00:50:37,330
Speaker 1: That's right. You and name-redacted husband. I'm so glad you're

907
00:50:37,350 --> 00:50:37,810
Speaker 1: still together.

908
00:50:38,430 --> 00:50:40,710
Speaker 2: Seriously, one of the best ever. So thank you for

909
00:50:40,750 --> 00:50:43,330
Speaker 2: sending that email, Laura. And if you want to take

910
00:50:43,370 --> 00:50:46,669
Speaker 2: your shot at the number one email spot, we love that.

911
00:50:47,110 --> 00:50:50,830
Speaker 2: You can send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.

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00:50:54,150 --> 00:50:56,989
Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

913
00:50:57,010 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts,

914
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,060
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.