1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:23,116 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, it's Jacob. Just a quick note that today's 2 00:00:23,156 --> 00:00:26,516 Speaker 1: show is a collaboration with my old friends at Planet Money. 3 00:00:26,916 --> 00:00:29,276 Speaker 1: It's kind of a follow up to last week's episode 4 00:00:29,276 --> 00:00:32,356 Speaker 1: of What's Your Problem. It's about the century long quest 5 00:00:32,476 --> 00:00:35,076 Speaker 1: to mass produce houses in a factory, so it does 6 00:00:35,196 --> 00:00:38,716 Speaker 1: hit on that core What's Your Problem theme using technology 7 00:00:38,876 --> 00:00:41,516 Speaker 1: to try to make things cheaper. I hope you'll like it. 8 00:00:42,196 --> 00:00:44,796 Speaker 1: If you're a new listener who found What's Your Problem 9 00:00:44,836 --> 00:00:47,876 Speaker 1: because of the Planet Money episode, let me say welcome. 10 00:00:48,236 --> 00:00:50,636 Speaker 1: I'm delighted that you're here, and I hope you stick around. 11 00:00:50,796 --> 00:00:53,436 Speaker 1: You can check out our back catalog, which has dozens 12 00:00:53,436 --> 00:00:55,876 Speaker 1: of shows in it, and we'll be back next week 13 00:00:55,996 --> 00:00:59,156 Speaker 1: with a new episode of What's Your Problem. Here's the show. 14 00:01:00,996 --> 00:01:07,276 Speaker 1: This is Planet Money from NPR. Let's talk about houses 15 00:01:07,596 --> 00:01:10,316 Speaker 1: in America. I'm going to go out on a limb 16 00:01:10,676 --> 00:01:14,556 Speaker 1: and I'm going to say houses in America are too expensive. 17 00:01:14,916 --> 00:01:19,756 Speaker 2: Bold words from Jacob Goldstein coming in hot. And there 18 00:01:19,796 --> 00:01:22,156 Speaker 2: are a lot of reasons for this, right, there's the zoning, 19 00:01:22,516 --> 00:01:26,196 Speaker 2: there's land prices. But one reason we do not hear 20 00:01:26,276 --> 00:01:29,316 Speaker 2: much about one of the things driving the cost of housing, 21 00:01:29,796 --> 00:01:33,796 Speaker 2: the process of building houses is just really slow and 22 00:01:33,916 --> 00:01:35,436 Speaker 2: inefficient and expensive. 23 00:01:35,956 --> 00:01:38,556 Speaker 1: There's this thing I heard a while back, years ago 24 00:01:38,996 --> 00:01:42,716 Speaker 1: that really made me realize just how inefficient it is 25 00:01:42,796 --> 00:01:45,876 Speaker 1: to build a house. And it goes like this, Imagine 26 00:01:45,916 --> 00:01:49,596 Speaker 1: we built cars the same way we build houses. You'd 27 00:01:49,716 --> 00:01:51,716 Speaker 1: have a meeting with the car designer where you tell 28 00:01:51,756 --> 00:01:53,796 Speaker 1: them what kind of car you want, and they'd drop 29 00:01:53,836 --> 00:01:56,316 Speaker 1: plans for your special car. Then you'd go to the 30 00:01:56,396 --> 00:01:59,396 Speaker 1: city council, you'd get a permit. Then you'd go around town. 31 00:01:59,436 --> 00:02:02,436 Speaker 1: You'd call different car builders, show them your blueprints, and 32 00:02:02,476 --> 00:02:04,836 Speaker 1: they'd be like, yeah, sure, I can build you your 33 00:02:04,916 --> 00:02:08,836 Speaker 1: special car. It'll cost I don't know, a million dollars 34 00:02:09,276 --> 00:02:11,156 Speaker 1: be ready and say a year and a half. 35 00:02:11,476 --> 00:02:14,116 Speaker 2: I'm sure there are developers who build whatever, like a 36 00:02:14,236 --> 00:02:17,116 Speaker 2: hundred homes at a time, but even building one hundred 37 00:02:17,156 --> 00:02:21,476 Speaker 2: homes at a time is this wildly slow and expensive process. 38 00:02:21,716 --> 00:02:24,236 Speaker 1: It seems like we should be able to do better. 39 00:02:24,716 --> 00:02:27,116 Speaker 1: We know how to make things cheaper. We've been doing 40 00:02:27,116 --> 00:02:30,356 Speaker 1: it for hundreds of years. We make things cheaper by 41 00:02:30,436 --> 00:02:34,156 Speaker 1: mass producing them in factories, just like we do with cars, 42 00:02:34,236 --> 00:02:36,236 Speaker 1: and just like we do with lots of other things. 43 00:02:36,676 --> 00:02:40,756 Speaker 1: So why don't we do that with houses. Hello, and 44 00:02:40,796 --> 00:02:41,676 Speaker 1: welcome to Planet Money. 45 00:02:41,716 --> 00:02:44,916 Speaker 2: I'm Jacob Goldstein's and I'm Nick found Jacob. So good 46 00:02:44,916 --> 00:02:47,116 Speaker 2: to have you back, So good to see you. 47 00:02:47,316 --> 00:02:49,316 Speaker 1: Thanks man, I'm happy to be back at Planet Money. 48 00:02:49,356 --> 00:02:51,876 Speaker 2: We should say you now have another job. You now 49 00:02:51,916 --> 00:02:54,636 Speaker 2: host this great show called What's Your Problem of a 50 00:02:54,636 --> 00:02:58,836 Speaker 2: big fan. It's about people trying to solve problems out 51 00:02:58,876 --> 00:03:01,116 Speaker 2: in the world, oftentimes with technology. 52 00:03:01,276 --> 00:03:04,156 Speaker 1: Very good. Yes, thank you for listening and for What's 53 00:03:04,156 --> 00:03:08,636 Speaker 1: Your Problem. I recently interviewed a homebuilder who is trying 54 00:03:08,676 --> 00:03:11,596 Speaker 1: to do this thing we're talking about on the show today. 55 00:03:11,636 --> 00:03:14,476 Speaker 1: He's trying to figure out how to build houses in 56 00:03:14,516 --> 00:03:17,796 Speaker 1: a factory. And as I was preparing for that interview, 57 00:03:17,996 --> 00:03:20,956 Speaker 1: I realized that there was actually a much bigger story here. 58 00:03:20,996 --> 00:03:22,916 Speaker 1: It's a story that would be great for a Planet Money. 59 00:03:23,236 --> 00:03:26,396 Speaker 1: It's this one hundred year story of people trying to 60 00:03:26,556 --> 00:03:28,956 Speaker 1: do this thing, trying to figure out how to make 61 00:03:28,996 --> 00:03:31,156 Speaker 1: houses cheaper by building them in factories. 62 00:03:31,316 --> 00:03:33,876 Speaker 2: Today on the show, the story of something that should 63 00:03:33,916 --> 00:03:37,796 Speaker 2: have taken off by now. There'll be some flying saucer houses, 64 00:03:37,836 --> 00:03:39,836 Speaker 2: there'll be some double wides. 65 00:03:39,636 --> 00:03:41,796 Speaker 1: And Nick, you get to do one of your favorite things, 66 00:03:42,076 --> 00:03:45,156 Speaker 1: you get to go to a construction site swinging some hammus. 67 00:03:53,796 --> 00:03:55,916 Speaker 1: Just a quick heads up, there is a mention of 68 00:03:56,036 --> 00:03:57,476 Speaker 1: suicide in today's show. 69 00:03:58,796 --> 00:04:02,956 Speaker 2: This dream of using factories, using mass production to make 70 00:04:02,996 --> 00:04:06,716 Speaker 2: houses cheaper and better goes back about one hundred years now, 71 00:04:07,076 --> 00:04:10,596 Speaker 2: and in those hundred years there have been some spectacular 72 00:04:10,716 --> 00:04:14,036 Speaker 2: failures and at least one surprising boom along the way. 73 00:04:14,396 --> 00:04:16,756 Speaker 1: So what we're gonna do on today's show is talk 74 00:04:16,796 --> 00:04:21,836 Speaker 1: about three key people. There's an impractical genius, a very 75 00:04:21,956 --> 00:04:26,076 Speaker 1: practical small businessman, and someone who is trying again right now, 76 00:04:26,316 --> 00:04:27,996 Speaker 1: to mass produce houses in factories. 77 00:04:28,476 --> 00:04:31,676 Speaker 2: The star of chapter one, that impractical genius is a 78 00:04:31,676 --> 00:04:35,956 Speaker 2: man named Buckminster Fuller Bucky to his friends. Bucky was 79 00:04:35,996 --> 00:04:39,116 Speaker 2: this famous weirdo. He was a designer, he was a futurist. 80 00:04:39,516 --> 00:04:43,236 Speaker 2: He was beloved by Steve Jobs and other hippie adjacent 81 00:04:43,276 --> 00:04:46,676 Speaker 2: tech types. Fortunately for us, someone just published a book 82 00:04:46,676 --> 00:04:47,156 Speaker 2: about him. 83 00:04:47,276 --> 00:04:50,476 Speaker 3: My name is alec Nevilla Lee, and the book is 84 00:04:50,556 --> 00:04:53,756 Speaker 3: Inventor of the Future, The Visionary Life of Buckminster Fuller. 85 00:04:53,876 --> 00:04:56,876 Speaker 1: And do you, by chance have any close connections to 86 00:04:57,076 --> 00:04:59,516 Speaker 1: any of the current or former staff of Planet Money 87 00:04:59,596 --> 00:05:00,236 Speaker 1: or the Indicator. 88 00:05:00,796 --> 00:05:02,596 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Well, we should make this very clear that 89 00:05:02,596 --> 00:05:05,356 Speaker 3: this is not a NEPO situation that you were not 90 00:05:05,396 --> 00:05:08,476 Speaker 3: aware that I was married to Indicator reporter and co 91 00:05:08,556 --> 00:05:11,876 Speaker 3: host Whalen until after you began looking into buckminster Fuller. 92 00:05:11,996 --> 00:05:16,116 Speaker 2: It's true. Alex Has Buckminster Fuller's dream of making houses 93 00:05:16,156 --> 00:05:19,956 Speaker 2: and factories starts in nineteen twenty seven. He's not famous yet. 94 00:05:19,956 --> 00:05:22,356 Speaker 2: He's in his early thirties, living with his wife and 95 00:05:22,436 --> 00:05:25,596 Speaker 2: his baby daughter in Chicago, and he's working for this 96 00:05:25,636 --> 00:05:29,116 Speaker 2: company that sells construction materials. But then he gets fired. 97 00:05:29,156 --> 00:05:32,356 Speaker 2: He's in a really bad place, and in the middle 98 00:05:32,356 --> 00:05:35,396 Speaker 2: of all this, he walks to the edge of Lake 99 00:05:35,516 --> 00:05:37,916 Speaker 2: Michigan and consider suicide. 100 00:05:38,476 --> 00:05:41,116 Speaker 3: He is going through this crisis, and the story is 101 00:05:41,156 --> 00:05:43,076 Speaker 3: that while he's looking out of the water, he starts 102 00:05:43,116 --> 00:05:45,956 Speaker 3: to ask himself a series of questions, starting with, you know, 103 00:05:46,036 --> 00:05:47,916 Speaker 3: is there a God? Does God have a plan for me? 104 00:05:48,036 --> 00:05:49,876 Speaker 3: You know, do I know what this plan is? And 105 00:05:49,916 --> 00:05:53,156 Speaker 3: then he has this kind of blinding worship insight that says, 106 00:05:53,716 --> 00:05:56,196 Speaker 3: you do not belong to yourself, You belong to the universe, 107 00:05:56,356 --> 00:05:58,236 Speaker 3: and you know it is for you to figure out 108 00:05:58,236 --> 00:06:00,596 Speaker 3: how you can be a benefit to all of mankind. 109 00:06:01,036 --> 00:06:04,276 Speaker 1: And you know what Buckminster Fuller, vessel of the universe, 110 00:06:04,356 --> 00:06:07,316 Speaker 1: decides to do to devote himself to the betterment of 111 00:06:07,356 --> 00:06:11,276 Speaker 1: all mankind. It's the mass produced houses in a factory. 112 00:06:11,516 --> 00:06:13,236 Speaker 3: So the next day, you know, he starts to focus 113 00:06:13,476 --> 00:06:16,556 Speaker 3: very seriously on this housing idea. Okay, because that's his background. 114 00:06:16,556 --> 00:06:19,396 Speaker 3: He's someone who has spent years in construction. You know, 115 00:06:19,676 --> 00:06:22,076 Speaker 3: his father in law is a famous architect, and so 116 00:06:22,196 --> 00:06:23,796 Speaker 3: you know, for him to make an impact, the obvious 117 00:06:23,836 --> 00:06:24,956 Speaker 3: places start is housing. 118 00:06:25,196 --> 00:06:27,756 Speaker 2: And it wasn't just his background. Bucky thinks the time 119 00:06:27,916 --> 00:06:30,836 Speaker 2: is right for this idea. It's after World War One. 120 00:06:31,236 --> 00:06:34,756 Speaker 2: Construction costs are really high, and like today, it was 121 00:06:34,916 --> 00:06:37,636 Speaker 2: really hard back then for a working class family to 122 00:06:37,716 --> 00:06:39,836 Speaker 2: buy a house. And this was a. 123 00:06:39,756 --> 00:06:44,276 Speaker 1: Time when people really believed that technological progress could make 124 00:06:44,356 --> 00:06:47,676 Speaker 1: life better. Radio is new. It's the dawn of mass 125 00:06:47,676 --> 00:06:51,396 Speaker 1: consumer goods. People are starting to get things like refrigerators 126 00:06:51,396 --> 00:06:53,076 Speaker 1: and washing machines and cars. 127 00:06:53,196 --> 00:06:56,476 Speaker 2: Right this is about twenty years after Henry Ford had 128 00:06:56,596 --> 00:06:59,436 Speaker 2: rolled out the Model T that was the first car 129 00:06:59,556 --> 00:07:02,596 Speaker 2: that was affordable to the masses, and the reason it 130 00:07:02,636 --> 00:07:05,956 Speaker 2: was affordable was because it was mass produced on the 131 00:07:05,996 --> 00:07:07,036 Speaker 2: assembly line. 132 00:07:07,116 --> 00:07:10,476 Speaker 1: The car was a really important stot for Bucky. That 133 00:07:10,636 --> 00:07:12,356 Speaker 1: thing I did at the top of the show about 134 00:07:12,396 --> 00:07:14,956 Speaker 1: you know, imagine we built cars the way we build houses. 135 00:07:15,196 --> 00:07:17,276 Speaker 1: I got that from him. I got that from Bucky. 136 00:07:17,436 --> 00:07:20,636 Speaker 2: Shout out to Bucky. So Bucky decides, I'm gonna build 137 00:07:20,676 --> 00:07:23,516 Speaker 2: houses the way we build cars. And crucially, this means 138 00:07:23,516 --> 00:07:26,516 Speaker 2: not just building regular style houses in a factory. It 139 00:07:26,556 --> 00:07:29,796 Speaker 2: means rethinking from scratch what it means to build a house. 140 00:07:30,156 --> 00:07:32,356 Speaker 1: So he has this big idea and he goes out 141 00:07:32,356 --> 00:07:35,996 Speaker 1: and he starts pitching it. He calls it the Dimaxian House, 142 00:07:36,516 --> 00:07:39,916 Speaker 1: and he starts to get popular as this sort of visionary, 143 00:07:39,996 --> 00:07:43,276 Speaker 1: big idea guy. He's given lectures. If you were around today, 144 00:07:43,316 --> 00:07:46,436 Speaker 1: he would definitely be big into ted talks. But one 145 00:07:46,436 --> 00:07:51,196 Speaker 1: thing he is not doing building houses because to build 146 00:07:51,196 --> 00:07:54,676 Speaker 1: these factory built houses, he needs a factory and he 147 00:07:54,716 --> 00:07:55,436 Speaker 1: doesn't have one. 148 00:07:55,516 --> 00:07:59,276 Speaker 2: And then finally, fifteen years after he first comes up 149 00:07:59,316 --> 00:08:02,396 Speaker 2: with the idea, he gets his big chance. It's nineteen 150 00:08:02,476 --> 00:08:05,796 Speaker 2: forty four. US factories have been churning out planes and 151 00:08:05,796 --> 00:08:08,876 Speaker 2: ships and jeeps to fight World War Two, but now 152 00:08:09,196 --> 00:08:11,556 Speaker 2: the war is starting to wind down. 153 00:08:11,676 --> 00:08:14,636 Speaker 3: And one of the questions as the war starts to 154 00:08:14,676 --> 00:08:16,596 Speaker 3: wind down, is what are we going to do with 155 00:08:16,636 --> 00:08:19,916 Speaker 3: all of this industrial capacity that we've built up. And Fuller, 156 00:08:19,956 --> 00:08:22,116 Speaker 3: who's kind of in the right place at the right time, says, well, 157 00:08:22,156 --> 00:08:25,236 Speaker 3: you know, I have this idea for industrialized housing, and 158 00:08:25,316 --> 00:08:26,876 Speaker 3: it makes a lot of sense for us just to 159 00:08:26,876 --> 00:08:30,716 Speaker 3: convert to these aircraft plans to building houses because it 160 00:08:30,756 --> 00:08:33,876 Speaker 3: will keep the plants operational, people will keep their jobs, 161 00:08:33,956 --> 00:08:35,956 Speaker 3: and in theory, we're going to have a huge demand 162 00:08:36,076 --> 00:08:38,916 Speaker 3: for post war housing after all these veterans come home. 163 00:08:39,156 --> 00:08:42,916 Speaker 1: So Bucky convinces this airplane company in Kansas to let 164 00:08:42,996 --> 00:08:45,996 Speaker 1: him use their factory to build a prototype of the 165 00:08:46,036 --> 00:08:49,036 Speaker 1: house he's been dreaming of for years, And an airplane 166 00:08:49,036 --> 00:08:51,756 Speaker 1: factory was actually a pretty good place to do it 167 00:08:51,796 --> 00:08:56,836 Speaker 1: because his factory optimized house was nothing like a regular house. 168 00:08:57,116 --> 00:08:59,316 Speaker 3: So it looks like a flying saucer, all right, it's 169 00:08:59,356 --> 00:09:01,876 Speaker 3: kind of the best way to describe it. It's, you know, 170 00:09:01,956 --> 00:09:07,356 Speaker 3: bare aluminum, so it's this shiny metal house and there's 171 00:09:07,356 --> 00:09:09,276 Speaker 3: a ring of glass windows. 172 00:09:09,316 --> 00:09:11,676 Speaker 2: To be clear, this is a round house. 173 00:09:12,116 --> 00:09:15,236 Speaker 3: And you go inside and the floor is very springy 174 00:09:15,876 --> 00:09:18,516 Speaker 3: because of the way the house is engineered. All these 175 00:09:18,596 --> 00:09:21,516 Speaker 3: rooms are kind of like wedge shaped, and you know, 176 00:09:21,556 --> 00:09:24,276 Speaker 3: he has these what he calls evolving shelves, which are 177 00:09:24,276 --> 00:09:26,716 Speaker 3: shelves that are built into the walls that rotate the 178 00:09:26,756 --> 00:09:27,196 Speaker 3: touch of. 179 00:09:27,076 --> 00:09:28,956 Speaker 1: Buttons, basically the Jetson's house. 180 00:09:29,356 --> 00:09:29,556 Speaker 2: Yeah. 181 00:09:29,636 --> 00:09:31,716 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's funny because it was always like 182 00:09:31,756 --> 00:09:33,636 Speaker 3: the House of the future, right, Like, even from early on, 183 00:09:33,676 --> 00:09:35,636 Speaker 3: people are saying, oh, you know, Fuller is designing the 184 00:09:35,676 --> 00:09:37,516 Speaker 3: House of the future, which I think kind of annoyed 185 00:09:37,596 --> 00:09:39,516 Speaker 3: him at first because he was trying to do it 186 00:09:39,556 --> 00:09:39,956 Speaker 3: for real. 187 00:09:40,116 --> 00:09:43,436 Speaker 1: In the present, Bucky finally has a factory. He makes 188 00:09:43,476 --> 00:09:46,476 Speaker 1: these prototypes. World War Two is over, the gis are 189 00:09:46,516 --> 00:09:48,716 Speaker 1: coming home. So what happens next? 190 00:09:49,196 --> 00:09:52,356 Speaker 3: So nothing ever happens, right, The company does not go 191 00:09:52,396 --> 00:09:53,156 Speaker 3: into mass production. 192 00:09:53,396 --> 00:09:56,396 Speaker 2: Yeah, Bucky's dream, the dream of the mass produced factory 193 00:09:56,436 --> 00:09:59,716 Speaker 2: house does not come true. And Alex says there are 194 00:09:59,756 --> 00:10:02,756 Speaker 2: a few reasons for this. For one, Bucky was just 195 00:10:02,956 --> 00:10:04,996 Speaker 2: kind of a pain to work with, not a great 196 00:10:05,036 --> 00:10:06,516 Speaker 2: guy to run a big company. 197 00:10:06,676 --> 00:10:10,036 Speaker 1: Another reason, Bucky came up with this idea back in 198 00:10:10,076 --> 00:10:13,556 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties. But now it's the mid nineteen forties, 199 00:10:13,756 --> 00:10:17,236 Speaker 1: and unusually in American history, This is a time when 200 00:10:17,316 --> 00:10:20,716 Speaker 1: a lot of working class people actually could afford houses. 201 00:10:21,076 --> 00:10:25,716 Speaker 1: Congress subsidized mortgages for returning troops, and developers were starting 202 00:10:25,716 --> 00:10:27,796 Speaker 1: to build these cheap housing developments. 203 00:10:28,156 --> 00:10:31,356 Speaker 2: And the last reason Bucky's factory built homes went nowhere 204 00:10:31,756 --> 00:10:35,636 Speaker 2: maybe the most obvious, but it's worth pointing out. People 205 00:10:35,796 --> 00:10:38,476 Speaker 2: do not want to live in a spaceship. These were 206 00:10:38,636 --> 00:10:40,556 Speaker 2: weird ass round metal houses. 207 00:10:40,756 --> 00:10:43,476 Speaker 3: This is kind of the tickaway here. It's like Fuller 208 00:10:43,596 --> 00:10:45,996 Speaker 3: really said, you know, people will like what I tell 209 00:10:46,036 --> 00:10:48,756 Speaker 3: them to like. He expects people to kind of change 210 00:10:48,796 --> 00:10:52,756 Speaker 3: their lifestyle to fit this idealized house design that he 211 00:10:52,796 --> 00:10:53,396 Speaker 3: has come up. 212 00:10:53,276 --> 00:10:55,436 Speaker 1: With, and people didn't want to do that. 213 00:10:55,956 --> 00:10:58,716 Speaker 2: Side note, we actually haven't mentioned the thing that Bucky 214 00:10:58,916 --> 00:11:03,076 Speaker 2: is best known for today, the geodesic dome like Spaceship 215 00:11:03,116 --> 00:11:06,276 Speaker 2: Earth at Epcot at disney World, and also the dome 216 00:11:06,316 --> 00:11:08,316 Speaker 2: house that my hippie friends in the Santa Cruz Mountains 217 00:11:08,396 --> 00:11:08,876 Speaker 2: used to live in. 218 00:11:09,316 --> 00:11:11,756 Speaker 1: Everybody has hippie friends who live in a domehouse in 219 00:11:11,796 --> 00:11:15,636 Speaker 1: the Santa Cruz Mountains. Anyway, you didn't need a factory 220 00:11:15,716 --> 00:11:17,356 Speaker 1: to make one of these domes. It was a really 221 00:11:17,396 --> 00:11:21,596 Speaker 1: simple design, very DIY friendly, but it didn't work that well. 222 00:11:21,756 --> 00:11:24,036 Speaker 3: So Fill actually lived in a dome house and it 223 00:11:24,076 --> 00:11:26,436 Speaker 3: was so leaky that apparently, you know, people would see 224 00:11:26,476 --> 00:11:30,276 Speaker 3: him at home like reading the newspaper with an umbrella 225 00:11:30,356 --> 00:11:33,596 Speaker 3: over his head and like a flashlight clutch between his teeth. 226 00:11:35,436 --> 00:11:38,156 Speaker 3: You know, the you know, there's a reason why we 227 00:11:38,156 --> 00:11:39,716 Speaker 3: don't mostly live in domes today. 228 00:11:39,956 --> 00:11:43,796 Speaker 1: Final recap from Bucky timing is everything. Don't launch your 229 00:11:43,836 --> 00:11:46,796 Speaker 1: factory built house at the one moment when working class 230 00:11:46,836 --> 00:11:50,836 Speaker 1: people can afford traditional houses. And if you're gonna build 231 00:11:50,876 --> 00:11:53,996 Speaker 1: houses in a factory, don't make them too weird. Make 232 00:11:54,036 --> 00:11:56,356 Speaker 1: them like normal houses that people want to live in. 233 00:11:56,676 --> 00:11:58,316 Speaker 2: Which brings us to chapter two. 234 00:11:58,476 --> 00:12:00,756 Speaker 1: Okay, for the title of this chapter, I'm going to 235 00:12:00,836 --> 00:12:02,836 Speaker 1: count to three, and we're both going to say our 236 00:12:02,836 --> 00:12:07,996 Speaker 1: favorite name for the chapter one two three Stuck inside 237 00:12:07,996 --> 00:12:11,516 Speaker 1: a mobile home field advantage with the zoning blues again 238 00:12:12,196 --> 00:12:14,476 Speaker 1: is a Dylan reference this section. Yes, the section is 239 00:12:14,516 --> 00:12:17,796 Speaker 1: about mobile homes and the mobile homes story, which is 240 00:12:17,836 --> 00:12:21,236 Speaker 1: the next big moment for factory built homes. It doesn't 241 00:12:21,316 --> 00:12:26,076 Speaker 1: happen through some grandiose, weirdo vision like the one Bucky had. 242 00:12:26,196 --> 00:12:28,356 Speaker 1: It builds gradually and it comes sort of from the 243 00:12:28,396 --> 00:12:28,996 Speaker 1: bottom up. 244 00:12:29,156 --> 00:12:32,316 Speaker 2: Yeah. Our guide to this chapter is Brian Potter. He 245 00:12:32,396 --> 00:12:35,716 Speaker 2: actually worked for a factory built construction company that had 246 00:12:35,756 --> 00:12:36,756 Speaker 2: its own boom and bust. 247 00:12:37,076 --> 00:12:39,676 Speaker 4: They raised several billion dollars in venture capital and then 248 00:12:39,716 --> 00:12:40,516 Speaker 4: went bankrupt. 249 00:12:40,956 --> 00:12:43,236 Speaker 2: Now he writes a newsletter that we love. It's called 250 00:12:43,396 --> 00:12:46,356 Speaker 2: Construction Physics, and it's all about this thing that we're 251 00:12:46,396 --> 00:12:49,676 Speaker 2: talking about in the show today. It's about productivity and construction. 252 00:12:50,036 --> 00:12:52,676 Speaker 1: Brian has spent a long time looking back at the 253 00:12:52,716 --> 00:12:55,356 Speaker 1: history of factory built homes, and he told us about 254 00:12:55,356 --> 00:12:59,476 Speaker 1: this guy, Elmer Frye, kind of the anti Bucky, not 255 00:12:59,516 --> 00:13:02,956 Speaker 1: a visionary, not touring the country giving lectures. He had 256 00:13:02,996 --> 00:13:05,516 Speaker 1: a company that made camping trailers. There were a bunch 257 00:13:05,556 --> 00:13:08,076 Speaker 1: of companies that made these, and some people did live 258 00:13:08,116 --> 00:13:10,836 Speaker 1: in them, but mostly they were for towing around. And 259 00:13:10,876 --> 00:13:14,276 Speaker 1: then one day, in the early nineteen fifties, Elmer heard 260 00:13:14,276 --> 00:13:15,396 Speaker 1: from one of his customers. 261 00:13:15,596 --> 00:13:18,116 Speaker 4: One day he got a request from somebody who wanted 262 00:13:18,156 --> 00:13:21,076 Speaker 4: a ten foot wide trailer, and fry said, well, that's 263 00:13:21,076 --> 00:13:23,516 Speaker 4: two wide to legally go on the roads. And the 264 00:13:23,556 --> 00:13:25,436 Speaker 4: guy said, oh, that's okay, I'm not going to move 265 00:13:25,436 --> 00:13:27,316 Speaker 4: it once I have it. I'll just call it a 266 00:13:27,516 --> 00:13:30,436 Speaker 4: construction trailer and permit it like that, and Fry said okay, 267 00:13:30,476 --> 00:13:32,516 Speaker 4: and then built it for him, and then he started 268 00:13:32,556 --> 00:13:34,676 Speaker 4: building more of them, and they just turned out to 269 00:13:34,716 --> 00:13:36,556 Speaker 4: be incredibly popular. 270 00:13:36,116 --> 00:13:37,556 Speaker 2: And then the rest was history. 271 00:13:37,636 --> 00:13:39,836 Speaker 4: The rest was history. The increase in width and mobile 272 00:13:39,836 --> 00:13:40,836 Speaker 4: homes went on from there. 273 00:13:41,156 --> 00:13:45,036 Speaker 2: People loved it. Pretty Soon everybody was ordering these extra 274 00:13:45,076 --> 00:13:48,276 Speaker 2: wide trailers a few feet at a time. Those trailers 275 00:13:48,316 --> 00:13:51,756 Speaker 2: people towed behind their car were becoming the mobile homes 276 00:13:51,796 --> 00:13:52,636 Speaker 2: that we know today. 277 00:13:52,796 --> 00:13:55,276 Speaker 4: Pretty soon, after the ten wide, you have the twelve wide, 278 00:13:55,316 --> 00:13:58,236 Speaker 4: and then the fourteen wide, and then yeah, the double wide, 279 00:13:58,236 --> 00:14:00,476 Speaker 4: which is two modules that get stuck together. 280 00:14:00,556 --> 00:14:00,756 Speaker 2: Yeah. 281 00:14:00,756 --> 00:14:02,756 Speaker 4: So right in the fifties, that's pretty much when that 282 00:14:02,876 --> 00:14:03,836 Speaker 4: shift started. 283 00:14:04,156 --> 00:14:06,916 Speaker 1: They were not building weird round spaceship houses of the 284 00:14:06,916 --> 00:14:12,476 Speaker 1: future with push buttonshelves. They were building rectangular, cheap houses. Also, 285 00:14:12,996 --> 00:14:15,756 Speaker 1: the timing was better that post World War two moment 286 00:14:15,796 --> 00:14:19,716 Speaker 1: when so many ordinary people could afford traditional houses. That 287 00:14:19,796 --> 00:14:23,516 Speaker 1: moment passed, so lots of people started buying these new, 288 00:14:23,836 --> 00:14:27,316 Speaker 1: cheaper mobile homes. There was a mobile home boom. 289 00:14:27,476 --> 00:14:31,956 Speaker 2: And companies also started building bigger, full sized houses and factories. 290 00:14:32,156 --> 00:14:35,036 Speaker 2: By nineteen seventy mobile homes and those other factory built 291 00:14:35,076 --> 00:14:38,076 Speaker 2: homes made up roughly half of newly built single family 292 00:14:38,076 --> 00:14:38,836 Speaker 2: homes in America. 293 00:14:39,316 --> 00:14:41,756 Speaker 1: Found and I'm going to say that again because it 294 00:14:41,836 --> 00:14:43,996 Speaker 1: was so surprising to me when I learned it. It 295 00:14:44,036 --> 00:14:46,396 Speaker 1: was why I wanted to do this whole chapter. In 296 00:14:46,476 --> 00:14:50,836 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one in two newly built single family homes 297 00:14:50,836 --> 00:14:53,116 Speaker 1: in America was built in a factory. 298 00:14:53,316 --> 00:14:57,076 Speaker 4: The industry is so large and expanding so rapidly that 299 00:14:57,116 --> 00:14:59,676 Speaker 4: at one point in the late sixties or early seventies, 300 00:14:59,716 --> 00:15:02,196 Speaker 4: I think you know, three of the top ten most 301 00:15:02,276 --> 00:15:06,156 Speaker 4: profitable companies in the US were mobile home companies. Uh, 302 00:15:06,796 --> 00:15:10,356 Speaker 4: the largest home builder in the US is a mobile 303 00:15:10,356 --> 00:15:11,356 Speaker 4: home company. 304 00:15:12,196 --> 00:15:12,436 Speaker 1: Yeah. 305 00:15:12,476 --> 00:15:16,116 Speaker 4: It becomes just an enormous industry relatively quickly. 306 00:15:16,436 --> 00:15:18,996 Speaker 2: This was it. This was the moment when lots of 307 00:15:19,036 --> 00:15:21,436 Speaker 2: affordable homes were made in factories. 308 00:15:22,036 --> 00:15:24,876 Speaker 1: But it didn't last. There was a recession that started 309 00:15:24,876 --> 00:15:27,116 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, and a bunch of the mobile 310 00:15:27,116 --> 00:15:30,756 Speaker 1: home manufacturers went out of business. After that, the industry 311 00:15:30,796 --> 00:15:32,756 Speaker 1: never really got back to where it had been in 312 00:15:32,756 --> 00:15:36,356 Speaker 1: the early seventies. Today, only around ten percent of new 313 00:15:36,396 --> 00:15:38,476 Speaker 1: single family homes are made in factories. 314 00:15:38,756 --> 00:15:42,796 Speaker 2: So the question is why what happened? Brian points to 315 00:15:42,796 --> 00:15:45,916 Speaker 2: a few things. For one, middle class homeowners, the classic 316 00:15:46,156 --> 00:15:49,556 Speaker 2: villains of affordable housing stories didn't want mobile homes in 317 00:15:49,556 --> 00:15:53,116 Speaker 2: their neighborhoods. Mobile homes were targeted at low income people. 318 00:15:53,316 --> 00:15:55,876 Speaker 2: There was a stigma attached to the way mobile homes looked, 319 00:15:56,436 --> 00:15:58,956 Speaker 2: and so as a result, there was this wave of 320 00:15:59,116 --> 00:16:02,156 Speaker 2: zoning rules that forced mobile homes out of town and 321 00:16:02,316 --> 00:16:03,476 Speaker 2: into mobile home parks. 322 00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:06,116 Speaker 1: But it wasn't just zoning, and in fact, Brian thinks 323 00:16:06,196 --> 00:16:08,516 Speaker 1: there was a deeper problem, a problem that goes to 324 00:16:08,556 --> 00:16:11,356 Speaker 1: the big law, long term question, why don't we build 325 00:16:11,476 --> 00:16:15,516 Speaker 1: more houses and factories? Brian says, building houses in factories 326 00:16:15,636 --> 00:16:19,676 Speaker 1: is just a fundamentally hard business. For one thing, home 327 00:16:19,716 --> 00:16:24,276 Speaker 1: construction is very cyclical, and traditional contractors can deal with 328 00:16:24,356 --> 00:16:28,596 Speaker 1: cyclical downturns by laying off workers, riding things out, and 329 00:16:28,636 --> 00:16:31,196 Speaker 1: then hiring people back and starting to build again when 330 00:16:31,196 --> 00:16:32,356 Speaker 1: the economy comes back. 331 00:16:32,916 --> 00:16:36,916 Speaker 2: But companies building homes and factories they have this big 332 00:16:37,236 --> 00:16:40,716 Speaker 2: fixed cost. They have the factory where they build the homes, 333 00:16:40,996 --> 00:16:43,276 Speaker 2: and they have to pay for those factories. Whether the 334 00:16:43,316 --> 00:16:46,036 Speaker 2: housing market is booming or crashing. 335 00:16:45,956 --> 00:16:48,316 Speaker 4: So factory built housing tends to have a tough time 336 00:16:48,596 --> 00:16:51,516 Speaker 4: in downturns. You see a lot of these operations just 337 00:16:51,636 --> 00:16:52,436 Speaker 4: go out of business. 338 00:16:52,716 --> 00:16:54,636 Speaker 1: This makes sense as far as it goes. But when 339 00:16:54,636 --> 00:16:57,796 Speaker 1: Brian told us this, I asked him, what about all 340 00:16:57,836 --> 00:17:00,916 Speaker 1: the other industries that have to keep factories open and downturns. 341 00:17:00,996 --> 00:17:04,196 Speaker 1: It's not like, say, car companies go bankrupt every time 342 00:17:04,236 --> 00:17:05,036 Speaker 1: there's a recession. 343 00:17:05,236 --> 00:17:07,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, Brian said, In the car business, doing mass production 344 00:17:07,956 --> 00:17:10,836 Speaker 2: in a factory is it's just so much more efficient 345 00:17:10,876 --> 00:17:14,196 Speaker 2: than the alternative. Think of Henry Ford's assembly line. It 346 00:17:14,316 --> 00:17:17,556 Speaker 2: was so much better than building bespoke cars one by 347 00:17:17,556 --> 00:17:18,676 Speaker 2: one in some workshop. 348 00:17:19,156 --> 00:17:23,076 Speaker 1: On the other hand, building mobile homes in factories, yeah 349 00:17:23,116 --> 00:17:25,916 Speaker 1: it was more efficient than building houses on site. But 350 00:17:25,996 --> 00:17:29,756 Speaker 1: it wasn't that much more efficient. It wasn't enough more 351 00:17:29,796 --> 00:17:34,356 Speaker 1: efficient to ride out the inevitable downturns in housing. Brian says, 352 00:17:34,596 --> 00:17:36,956 Speaker 1: once you paid to attach the mobile home to the 353 00:17:36,996 --> 00:17:38,996 Speaker 1: back of a truck and haul it down the highway 354 00:17:38,996 --> 00:17:40,996 Speaker 1: to wherever it was going and got it all set up, 355 00:17:41,396 --> 00:17:43,996 Speaker 1: you lost a lot of the gains you got from 356 00:17:44,036 --> 00:17:46,116 Speaker 1: building it in the factory in the first place. 357 00:17:46,516 --> 00:17:48,996 Speaker 2: This is a really hard problem that in the end, 358 00:17:49,036 --> 00:17:53,116 Speaker 2: mobile homes couldn't entirely solve. And for that matter, no 359 00:17:53,156 --> 00:17:55,956 Speaker 2: one in this whole history of factory built housing has 360 00:17:55,996 --> 00:17:56,796 Speaker 2: been able to crack. 361 00:17:57,316 --> 00:18:00,676 Speaker 4: It is very, very hard to be the Henry Ford 362 00:18:00,756 --> 00:18:03,116 Speaker 4: of housing, to be able to produce things in a 363 00:18:03,156 --> 00:18:05,796 Speaker 4: factory that's so much cheaper that it just completely changes 364 00:18:05,836 --> 00:18:07,916 Speaker 4: the way we build it and the way. You can't 365 00:18:07,916 --> 00:18:10,676 Speaker 4: go back to the previous way. That is very hard 366 00:18:10,676 --> 00:18:12,516 Speaker 4: to do, and nobody has managed to do it yet. 367 00:18:14,356 --> 00:18:17,956 Speaker 1: Nobody has managed to do it yet yet. Yes, they 368 00:18:17,956 --> 00:18:20,596 Speaker 1: are still trying, and we'll hear about that after the break. 369 00:18:31,316 --> 00:18:33,996 Speaker 2: I grew up spending a lot of time on construction sites. 370 00:18:34,156 --> 00:18:37,396 Speaker 2: My dad was a contractor, mostly remodeling kitchens and bathrooms. 371 00:18:37,716 --> 00:18:39,676 Speaker 2: I used to work at a cabinet factory. It helped 372 00:18:39,676 --> 00:18:42,396 Speaker 2: with a lot of kitchen installs. I am the reigning 373 00:18:42,716 --> 00:18:46,276 Speaker 2: world champion of Belt Sander Racing Modified Division. Don't try 374 00:18:46,276 --> 00:18:49,396 Speaker 2: this at home, it's pretty dangerous. And so it was 375 00:18:49,436 --> 00:18:51,516 Speaker 2: a great delight that for this story I got to 376 00:18:51,556 --> 00:18:53,836 Speaker 2: do something that's very familiar to me that I love. 377 00:18:54,116 --> 00:18:56,436 Speaker 2: I got to go visit a job site and put 378 00:18:56,476 --> 00:18:58,756 Speaker 2: my microphone very close to power Tools. 379 00:19:00,196 --> 00:19:04,236 Speaker 1: Final chapter, Chapter three, working title, The work goes on, 380 00:19:04,556 --> 00:19:07,876 Speaker 1: the cause endurers, the hope still lives, and the dream 381 00:19:07,996 --> 00:19:09,236 Speaker 1: shall never die. 382 00:19:09,916 --> 00:19:11,996 Speaker 2: So there are a few companies out there right now 383 00:19:12,156 --> 00:19:15,556 Speaker 2: trying new ways to solve the factory built house problem. 384 00:19:15,756 --> 00:19:18,676 Speaker 1: One of them is called Cover. I interviewed the founder, 385 00:19:18,756 --> 00:19:21,796 Speaker 1: Alexis Revas, for this podcast I host What's Your Problem? 386 00:19:22,116 --> 00:19:23,996 Speaker 1: And Nick, you got to go meet him at a 387 00:19:24,076 --> 00:19:26,476 Speaker 1: job site in La where they were putting together one 388 00:19:26,516 --> 00:19:27,316 Speaker 1: of these houses. 389 00:19:27,916 --> 00:19:31,116 Speaker 2: Hey, guys, how's it good? Alexis niet. 390 00:19:31,396 --> 00:19:33,516 Speaker 1: Alexis is trying to figure out how to have the 391 00:19:33,596 --> 00:19:36,196 Speaker 1: kind of success that the mobile home companies had back 392 00:19:36,236 --> 00:19:39,356 Speaker 1: in the early seventies, but without running into the same problems. 393 00:19:39,516 --> 00:19:42,396 Speaker 1: And there are some big differences between what he's doing 394 00:19:42,436 --> 00:19:44,916 Speaker 1: and what the mobile home companies were doing. For one, 395 00:19:45,036 --> 00:19:47,596 Speaker 1: he is not building cheap homes, not at all. They're 396 00:19:47,676 --> 00:19:49,516 Speaker 1: really expensive, at least for now. 397 00:19:49,996 --> 00:19:52,316 Speaker 2: All right, So what are we looking at here? So 398 00:19:52,316 --> 00:19:55,396 Speaker 2: this is a living area, kitchen area, a nice open 399 00:19:55,716 --> 00:19:57,716 Speaker 2: kitchen area, kitchen. 400 00:19:57,436 --> 00:20:03,276 Speaker 5: With a wide Florida ceiling window sliding. 401 00:20:03,516 --> 00:20:06,636 Speaker 1: Alexis studied architecture in college and he fell in love 402 00:20:06,676 --> 00:20:09,796 Speaker 1: with this big idea of building houses in factory, and 403 00:20:09,836 --> 00:20:13,156 Speaker 1: he discovered that there is this relatively small industry that 404 00:20:13,236 --> 00:20:17,316 Speaker 1: is building homes in factories, not mobile homes, full size houses. 405 00:20:17,636 --> 00:20:20,356 Speaker 2: So Alexis went to intern for one of those companies, 406 00:20:20,756 --> 00:20:23,356 Speaker 2: and what he saw there was that they're basically just 407 00:20:23,476 --> 00:20:27,276 Speaker 2: building traditional homes in the factory, then moving them on 408 00:20:27,356 --> 00:20:30,436 Speaker 2: these giant flatbed trucks and lifting them into place with 409 00:20:30,676 --> 00:20:33,556 Speaker 2: giant cranes, and then doing lots of work to finish 410 00:20:33,556 --> 00:20:36,476 Speaker 2: them on site. And he realized the same thing Brian 411 00:20:36,516 --> 00:20:39,556 Speaker 2: Potter realized. When you do all that, the house doesn't 412 00:20:39,556 --> 00:20:42,876 Speaker 2: wind up being that much cheaper than a traditional house. 413 00:20:42,956 --> 00:20:46,636 Speaker 2: You don't get those sweet sweet productivity gains from factory 414 00:20:46,636 --> 00:20:47,636 Speaker 2: based mass production. 415 00:20:48,036 --> 00:20:51,156 Speaker 1: So Alexis starts this new company and their whole thing 416 00:20:51,276 --> 00:20:54,556 Speaker 1: is sort of trying to do what Buckminster Fuller tried 417 00:20:54,556 --> 00:20:57,276 Speaker 1: to do one hundred years ago. They want to rethink 418 00:20:57,316 --> 00:20:59,116 Speaker 1: factory construction from the ground up. 419 00:20:59,356 --> 00:21:01,516 Speaker 2: And I could see this at the job site. It 420 00:21:01,556 --> 00:21:04,036 Speaker 2: was very different from the many that I'd been on 421 00:21:04,116 --> 00:21:07,676 Speaker 2: in my life. One difference there's no wood framing, it's 422 00:21:07,676 --> 00:21:11,996 Speaker 2: all steel studs, and also the ceiling is steel. I've 423 00:21:12,036 --> 00:21:14,836 Speaker 2: never seen that on a job site before steel ceiling. Yeah, 424 00:21:14,916 --> 00:21:16,036 Speaker 2: people people who. 425 00:21:15,956 --> 00:21:18,316 Speaker 5: Are familiar with conventional construction, they kind of they kind 426 00:21:18,316 --> 00:21:19,596 Speaker 5: of walk into here and they're like, this is this 427 00:21:19,636 --> 00:21:25,436 Speaker 5: is some you know, alien alien system. Yeah, it's very unusual. 428 00:21:25,916 --> 00:21:28,076 Speaker 2: To be clear, this is gonna look like a nice house. 429 00:21:28,116 --> 00:21:31,036 Speaker 2: It's gonna look like something you'd see in an architectural magazine. 430 00:21:31,396 --> 00:21:34,836 Speaker 2: But it isn't built like most houses. It's built mostly 431 00:21:34,956 --> 00:21:37,756 Speaker 2: in the factory, one panel at a time. 432 00:21:38,036 --> 00:21:40,996 Speaker 5: As wall panels, floor panels, ceiling panels, so you can 433 00:21:40,996 --> 00:21:43,356 Speaker 5: think of it like life sized Lego blocks. And then 434 00:21:43,396 --> 00:21:45,596 Speaker 5: we take those panels, we deliver them to site on 435 00:21:45,636 --> 00:21:48,596 Speaker 5: a regular truck, no big crane, no big equipment, and 436 00:21:48,596 --> 00:21:49,716 Speaker 5: then we assemble them into the. 437 00:21:49,636 --> 00:21:53,156 Speaker 1: Homes those panels or flat It's not like shipping you know, 438 00:21:53,596 --> 00:21:55,196 Speaker 1: half a house that you have to put on the 439 00:21:55,236 --> 00:21:57,516 Speaker 1: back of a truck and install with the crane. So 440 00:21:57,716 --> 00:22:00,956 Speaker 1: they solve a lot of that expensive to ship transportation 441 00:22:01,156 --> 00:22:03,156 Speaker 1: problem that other factory built houses have. 442 00:22:03,516 --> 00:22:07,196 Speaker 2: Alexis's company isn't the first to build houses with prefab panels, 443 00:22:07,356 --> 00:22:10,436 Speaker 2: but they're trying to build a lot into those panels 444 00:22:10,476 --> 00:22:13,756 Speaker 2: before they leave the factory. Alexis gets down on his 445 00:22:13,836 --> 00:22:17,276 Speaker 2: knee and shows me an interior panel that already has 446 00:22:17,396 --> 00:22:18,476 Speaker 2: wiring built into it. 447 00:22:18,556 --> 00:22:21,356 Speaker 5: Is that you've got the Uh, you know what I'm 448 00:22:21,396 --> 00:22:25,076 Speaker 5: doing here is I'm pulling out one of the electrical connections. 449 00:22:25,076 --> 00:22:26,836 Speaker 5: But you can see here there's an electrical connection. This 450 00:22:26,916 --> 00:22:28,756 Speaker 5: comes pre wired from the factory, and then there's this 451 00:22:28,836 --> 00:22:31,596 Speaker 5: quick connect that you just plug in, uh, and then 452 00:22:31,596 --> 00:22:32,876 Speaker 5: that makes the electrical connection. 453 00:22:33,236 --> 00:22:35,596 Speaker 2: So this is one way they're trying to make home 454 00:22:35,636 --> 00:22:38,716 Speaker 2: building more efficient. Rather than spend a few days wiring 455 00:22:38,796 --> 00:22:41,516 Speaker 2: up the house on site, they pre cut the wires 456 00:22:41,596 --> 00:22:44,156 Speaker 2: at the factory to the right legs, They put connectors 457 00:22:44,156 --> 00:22:46,636 Speaker 2: on them, and they install them in some of the panels, 458 00:22:46,996 --> 00:22:48,836 Speaker 2: and then when they get to the site, they just 459 00:22:48,956 --> 00:22:52,156 Speaker 2: click the connectors together. Yep, I've never heard of that before. 460 00:22:52,236 --> 00:22:54,436 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean the idea is and this is so 461 00:22:54,636 --> 00:22:57,356 Speaker 5: it's very unusual to do this kind of thing in construction. 462 00:22:58,396 --> 00:23:00,756 Speaker 5: But in the automotive world, for example, right, it's called 463 00:23:00,756 --> 00:23:03,316 Speaker 5: an electrical harness. You've got you've got the you know, 464 00:23:03,676 --> 00:23:06,476 Speaker 5: there's there's hundreds of sensors in a car, right, and 465 00:23:06,516 --> 00:23:08,676 Speaker 5: they have these these all these wires pre made in 466 00:23:08,676 --> 00:23:11,916 Speaker 5: a factory shipped to you know, the main line and 467 00:23:11,956 --> 00:23:13,716 Speaker 5: they have these connectors on the end, and then you know, 468 00:23:13,756 --> 00:23:15,996 Speaker 5: you just plug it all together. So it's taking kind 469 00:23:16,036 --> 00:23:18,596 Speaker 5: of an automotive approach to electrical and bringing that to 470 00:23:18,876 --> 00:23:19,716 Speaker 5: home building. 471 00:23:19,876 --> 00:23:23,436 Speaker 1: Again with the automotive industry, but this time it's not 472 00:23:23,636 --> 00:23:27,796 Speaker 1: just a metaphor. Alexis company hired people from Tesla and 473 00:23:27,876 --> 00:23:31,116 Speaker 1: other car companies to help them figure out mass production, 474 00:23:31,596 --> 00:23:34,836 Speaker 1: but they have not really figured it out yet. They're 475 00:23:34,836 --> 00:23:37,516 Speaker 1: still making houses one by one, which is part of 476 00:23:37,516 --> 00:23:40,356 Speaker 1: the reason the houses they're selling cost a lot. 477 00:23:40,676 --> 00:23:42,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, the house I saw being built is a two bad, 478 00:23:42,876 --> 00:23:47,116 Speaker 2: two bath, fancy house with high end appliances, and it's 479 00:23:47,116 --> 00:23:49,636 Speaker 2: going to cost more than four hundred thousand dollars, a 480 00:23:49,636 --> 00:23:50,276 Speaker 2: lot of money. 481 00:23:50,476 --> 00:23:55,236 Speaker 1: They are not solving the housing affordability crisis with this house. 482 00:24:00,716 --> 00:24:04,156 Speaker 2: The classic home depot bucket, you haven't innovated on that yet. 483 00:24:04,636 --> 00:24:08,716 Speaker 5: No, We've got to prioritize my bucket. 484 00:24:09,836 --> 00:24:12,036 Speaker 2: What shouldname? My name is? Gus? When I was on 485 00:24:12,076 --> 00:24:13,556 Speaker 2: the job site, I got to spend a little time 486 00:24:13,596 --> 00:24:15,796 Speaker 2: with Gus Contreras. What's your title? 487 00:24:17,756 --> 00:24:18,316 Speaker 4: Is my title? 488 00:24:18,356 --> 00:24:18,476 Speaker 5: Now? 489 00:24:19,516 --> 00:24:21,956 Speaker 2: Are are you like the everything is my title? 490 00:24:22,356 --> 00:24:22,756 Speaker 1: Magician? 491 00:24:23,116 --> 00:24:26,236 Speaker 2: Gus was installing the bathroom, and talking with him helped 492 00:24:26,236 --> 00:24:29,796 Speaker 2: me understand how this company might possibly be able to 493 00:24:29,796 --> 00:24:32,756 Speaker 2: bring down the still very high costs of their houses. 494 00:24:33,116 --> 00:24:35,716 Speaker 2: Four minutes and you guys already have the shower installed. 495 00:24:35,876 --> 00:24:41,316 Speaker 6: Yeah, four minutes was fast, but it still takes Gus 496 00:24:41,356 --> 00:24:45,156 Speaker 6: and five other experienced construction workers about a month to 497 00:24:45,236 --> 00:24:47,636 Speaker 6: put the house together on site, and that month of 498 00:24:47,676 --> 00:24:49,716 Speaker 6: skilled work makes the house cost more. 499 00:24:50,036 --> 00:24:53,196 Speaker 2: So maybe the most important part of Gus's job is 500 00:24:53,236 --> 00:24:55,956 Speaker 2: figuring out how to make it faster and easier to 501 00:24:55,996 --> 00:24:59,276 Speaker 2: put together these houses. Gus says, plumbing the bathroom used 502 00:24:59,276 --> 00:25:02,516 Speaker 2: to take like a whole day. Now it's just thirty minutes. 503 00:25:02,876 --> 00:25:05,716 Speaker 2: And that's because Gus and his coworkers were constantly sending 504 00:25:05,716 --> 00:25:09,356 Speaker 2: feedback to engineers at HQ, saying, Hey, try tweaking this 505 00:25:09,396 --> 00:25:12,716 Speaker 2: one little thing at the factory before you ship it 506 00:25:12,756 --> 00:25:17,276 Speaker 2: to us. Are you taking meetings from inside these these buildings? 507 00:25:17,436 --> 00:25:21,436 Speaker 1: Baby zoom zoom, Google Meet or whatever I can log into. 508 00:25:21,476 --> 00:25:22,636 Speaker 5: Do you know what I mean, We'll do it. 509 00:25:23,996 --> 00:25:27,276 Speaker 2: That's that's pretty rare for the construction industry, being on 510 00:25:27,356 --> 00:25:28,356 Speaker 2: a zoom at a job site. 511 00:25:28,436 --> 00:25:29,716 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I used to get yell that from 512 00:25:29,716 --> 00:25:30,956 Speaker 3: being on my phone on praise for it. 513 00:25:30,956 --> 00:25:34,996 Speaker 1: So, I mean, this is it. One zoom call from 514 00:25:35,076 --> 00:25:38,716 Speaker 1: Gus at a time. This is the thing happening. They're 515 00:25:38,716 --> 00:25:43,076 Speaker 1: trying to reduce the need for expensive, time consuming skilled 516 00:25:43,156 --> 00:25:46,556 Speaker 1: labor of people like Gus, trying to mass produce the 517 00:25:46,596 --> 00:25:49,396 Speaker 1: panels in the factory so that when those panels get 518 00:25:49,396 --> 00:25:51,796 Speaker 1: to the job site, it doesn't take a team of 519 00:25:51,836 --> 00:25:55,396 Speaker 1: skilled workers a month to put it all together. The 520 00:25:55,436 --> 00:25:58,796 Speaker 1: goal is to make it so easy that almost anybody 521 00:25:58,836 --> 00:26:01,356 Speaker 1: can put together a house in a few weeks. Think 522 00:26:01,356 --> 00:26:03,956 Speaker 1: of it like a really big piece of Ikea furniture. 523 00:26:04,436 --> 00:26:08,996 Speaker 1: Not quite that easy and somewhat fancier, but ikia s 524 00:26:09,916 --> 00:26:11,636 Speaker 1: that is the dream anyway. 525 00:26:12,276 --> 00:26:14,516 Speaker 2: This is the way we make things cheaper in the world. 526 00:26:14,796 --> 00:26:17,196 Speaker 2: We figure out how to mass produce them in factories. 527 00:26:17,356 --> 00:26:20,276 Speaker 2: We've done it over and over again for a long 528 00:26:20,316 --> 00:26:23,436 Speaker 2: time now, and yet after one hundred years of trying, 529 00:26:23,716 --> 00:26:37,076 Speaker 2: we still can't do it with houses and Jacob I 530 00:26:37,156 --> 00:26:39,996 Speaker 2: have listened to the whole Alexis interview. There is a 531 00:26:40,036 --> 00:26:43,476 Speaker 2: lot more about his backstory and the nitty gritty of 532 00:26:43,716 --> 00:26:46,676 Speaker 2: what he needs to figure out to make own instruction 533 00:26:46,836 --> 00:26:49,716 Speaker 2: really cheap. His goal, it's a great interview. It's a 534 00:26:49,756 --> 00:26:52,756 Speaker 2: great show. It's called What's Your Problem with Jacob golds 535 00:26:52,836 --> 00:26:55,436 Speaker 2: And you can find it where you can. 536 00:26:55,316 --> 00:26:58,436 Speaker 1: Find it wherever. Thanks for the shout out, Mick. We'd 537 00:26:58,436 --> 00:27:00,996 Speaker 1: like to thank James Schmidt's of the Minneapolis Fed, who 538 00:27:01,036 --> 00:27:04,156 Speaker 1: talked to us about mobile homes. Also the late Ted Kennedy. 539 00:27:04,556 --> 00:27:06,476 Speaker 1: I poached a line from one of his speeches for 540 00:27:06,556 --> 00:27:10,636 Speaker 1: the title of chapter three. Thanks also to Emma Peasley 541 00:27:10,716 --> 00:27:14,116 Speaker 1: for producing today's show, Molly Messick for editing the show, 542 00:27:14,516 --> 00:27:18,716 Speaker 1: Sierra Juadez for fact checking it, and Brian Jarbo for engineering. 543 00:27:18,876 --> 00:27:21,436 Speaker 2: If you or someone you know might be considering suicide 544 00:27:21,556 --> 00:27:23,756 Speaker 2: or is in a crisis, you can call or text 545 00:27:23,916 --> 00:27:27,996 Speaker 2: nine to eight eight to reach the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. 546 00:27:27,996 --> 00:27:32,036 Speaker 2: That's nine eight eight. I'm Nick Fountain, I'm Jacob Goldstein. 547 00:27:32,276 --> 00:27:33,316 Speaker 2: This is NPR. 548 00:27:33,756 --> 00:27:34,436 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.