WEBVTT - MARC MARON -The Maronated Burger 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.239 Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.880 I'm your host, coleeen Witt, and today we have a 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:11.680 very special guest, comedian, actor, writer, producer, but the godfather 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.200 of podcasting. As everyone has been like buzzing about, Mark 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:19.040 Marin is in the building and I am I'm like nervous, 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:23.840 which I never really get nervous. I'm excited. I've been excited. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.720 I've been emailing you. And just so you guys know 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.000 a little backstory. I just walked up on him, did 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:32.000 my elevator pitch, and he was really really nice. 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:33.240 Guys, So if. 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.559 You want to get a glimpse of who he is, 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.440 like off camera, that's who he was. And I sent 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:39.159 you an email. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.920 I know, I didn't know how it was gonna unfold, really, 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:43.879 you know, I said okay, and then I didn't know if. 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:45.599 You were going to email, and then emailed and then 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.440 I was like maybe later. Yeah. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:49.560 He kept on me and okay, yeah, I did a 0:00:49.600 --> 0:01:01.400 little follow I'm driving out there. 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.600 And then what I loved is that you were like, 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:23.360 you know, you used to eat meat, right, yeah? 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:25.399 And then you were like I'm vegan, now how do 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:25.920 we do this? 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.080 And we went back and forth about that a little bit, 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.640 and guys, before he announces his dish, I just want 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:34.720 to let you know that I was so excited. I 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:36.440 got in the kitchen to a little bit on his 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:38.120 meal and I helped make. 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:38.800 One of the ingredients. 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:40.400 I was surprised, that's pretty good. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.240 Well, I just figured that ingredient out, because when I 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.200 was coming up early on, I don't even remember what 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:47.560 I ate. 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:48.680 I don't remember cooking. 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.280 I don't because I was in New York City and 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.360 there was really the kitchen was hardly a kitchen in 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.200 the apartment. This is going back to the beginning of 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.280 the career. I can cook now and I cook all 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:01.680 the time, but that back then, I was like, what 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:03.400 did I even eat? And then I started to think 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.960 about it today and I still can't remember that well 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:10.040 because I didn't really eat breakfast. I smoked, so it 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.400 was like cigarettes and coffee for breakfast. I don't know 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:14.359 what happened at lunch. 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:16.519 Really. I know I didn't cook in New York. 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.200 Back and I was there eighty nine like and in 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.120 a small apartment on the Lower East Side. But I 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:27.560 do remember trying to figure out how to eat cheaply 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.600 and what me and the other comics would do. So 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.000 I had to dig up this restaurant, which is the 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.040 one I remember going to a lot and look at 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.640 their menu and then figure out what it was that 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:40.679 we used to eat there. And I figured it out. 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:43.520 And it wasn't easy. I mean, it wasn't hard to 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:44.160 make vegan. 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:46.800 Yeah, oh no, no, it seems pretty simple. 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.200 But why don't you tell our listeners what it is 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:51.680 you're going to have me eating today? 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.600 Okay, Well, the original dish was at a place called Dojo, 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.480 which was this sort of kind of almost like hippie 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.399 Asian place on St. Mark's and it was open late, 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:03.520 so we would go. It was do you know Todd 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:05.880 Berry is to comic like. There was a few guys 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:07.560 that would hang out, but we would eat there a 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.120 lot because it was cheap. And what we would get 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.320 they had, like, you know, they had a lot of 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:16.040 like noodles and stuff, but they had they had turkey burgers, 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:19.240 and they had these kind. 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.840 Of tofu burgers which were kind of weird. 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:23.560 Because you'd think it was healthy but it was deep 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.560 fried and it had like so we. 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:28.440 Would get No. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.480 I don't know how they made it. I remember I 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.600 had like seaweed strands in it somehow. But what we 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:35.400 would get we get a turkey burger, but not a 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.920 turkey burger sandwich. Get the turkey burger on brown rice. 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.840 And then they had this this Japanese barbecue sauce, which 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.120 wasn't that good, but I forgot to tell you about that, 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:45.840 so I bought one. 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:47.000 We'll see how that goes. 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:49.839 And then they'd have either a side salad or side 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.600 of steam vegetables. And they made this dressing. There's a 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.240 few different versions of this dressing in New York. It's 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:57.680 a I think it's a Japanese style dressing, kind of 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.160 this carroat ginger thing. But I've tried to make make 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.400 it another way, which is more complicated. And then before 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.280 I was going to talk to you, I looked up 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:06.800 that recipe because when I went to look at the 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.480 dojo menu, it was a carrot ginger tahini recipe. So 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:13.040 I found this and I tried it at home and 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.440 I'm like, that's kind of it, and then you and 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:16.840 I sent you the recipe. 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:17.160 So ye did it? 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:18.560 Did it? I actually did it? 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.080 So basically what we're eating is brown rice with a 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:24.240 patty on top, with the side of the steam vegetables 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:28.080 with the dressing, and I'll put the barbecue sauce on 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:29.960 the patty. 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:31.320 So there are no buns. 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.680 Yeah, I was, well, you can, you can have a 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:34.960 turkey burger on a bun. 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.000 But we were I think we were kind of I 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.000 don't know if I've always been health conscious, but it 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:40.880 was just it was the way to do it, to 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.400 get more of a full meal for the price. Right, 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:46.599 you can get a burger, but like the rice and 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:47.839 everything else, it was the way to go. 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.520 It's like a platter versus just a burger. 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:52.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it, because you know, you 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.400 go out and you order a burger, You're like, what's 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:56.440 going on the side of it? 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:58.400 What can I fill up even more with? 0:04:58.760 --> 0:04:59.039 Sure? 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:01.279 And a lot of time when you're starting out in 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:05.000 comedy anyways, you kind of figure out, Like once I 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.080 got into the comedy cellar, you could just eat there. 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.640 You would figure out ways to eat for free at 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.040 the club and that's not always healthy. But the comedy 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.760 seller had great food, like great food, but I was 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.680 trying to figure out what was I eating and we'd either. 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.080 Go I'm surprised you didn't get like chopped cheese. But 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:21.880 it sounds like you were more health conscious. 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:23.880 Well it was health conscious, but also like I was 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.360 never I don't feel like I was ever so conscious. 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.800 Like I would spend money on food and the kitchen. 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:32.760 Like I said, I didn't have anything in that kitchen. 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.479 I remember one time I tried to, like, I gone 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.560 out to eat at a Chinese place and they had 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.599 this full, like steamed fish with ginger. 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:42.280 It was like really good. I'm like, I'm gonna make 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:42.760 one of those. 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:44.800 So I went down to Chinatown and I bought a 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.800 walk and some soy sauce and a whole fish. And 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:49.560 I got back to my kitchen. I'm like, I can't 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:50.320 even cut this. 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.040 It was so sad. It was just me and this 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:54.440 whole fish and. 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:56.159 You didn't have knives or something. 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:57.480 Well I did, but not much. 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:02.080 I didn't know how to, you know, manage a kitchen. 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.520 And I'd worked in restaurants my whole life. And that 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.080 was the other thing about starting out too, back when 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.479 I was in Boston before New York, because I worked 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.520 at a restaurant, but it was a coffee place before Starbucks. 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:14.479 It was a real high end coffee place at a 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:16.599 small menu, but still I was just jacked up on 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.200 coffee all the time, smoking cigarettes. So there wasn't a 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.360 lot of eating going on that I remember. But I 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:24.240 do remember when I lived in New York on the 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.000 Lower East Side that like, if I was going to 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.240 eat breakfast, it was one of those kind of wrapped 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.159 you know that that coffee cake with the cinnamon brown 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.760 sugar crumbles. Oh yeah, I love the best, but you 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.040 know it's all suit Yeah. Yeah, So I remember eating 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.760 those with coffee and smoking, and there was another place 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:43.800 we used to go to. No, but I'm on the 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.479 nicotine again. I had a nicotine lost a je I 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:47.200 like nicotine. 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:48.760 What is that like a patch or something. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.360 No, it's literally a candy and you just kind of 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:52.800 put it in your mouth and suck on it for 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:54.479 a minute until you feel the buzz and then you 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:55.880 just kind of stick it in your lip. 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:58.719 I have one in now. Oh wow, I don't know. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:06:59.080 I was off. 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.080 I've gotten on on and off nicotine and forms over 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:03.440 the years. 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.760 I did you feel the buzz from the cigaret? I've 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.320 never really got. I'm never well. I suck at smoking. 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.360 Yeah, yeah, like I've tried smoking weed. I tried smoking 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.120 a cigarette once, I just don't think I know how 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:15.720 to Yeah, well, I know how. 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.920 To smoke anything. So you know, drugs are definitely part 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:20.400 of this story. 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.280 I every night, sure, I just do it, and I'm like, 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:25.480 I have the best sleep. 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.040 Yeah, I can't do that. I've been sober a long 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:29.720 time twenty four years. 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.040 Wow, that's amazing now. Where you sober back then? 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.240 No, I you know that that whole thing. 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:37.800 But the other place I can tell you about, the 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.480 other place we used to eat was this Polish place 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.280 called Kiev, And it was like there was a whole 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.880 crew of comics that were around then. So it was me, 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:53.480 Sarah Silverman, Jeff Ross, Louis, Nick Depolo, and Todd Berry 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:55.800 where we'd hang out after these clubs. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:57.000 But Kiev used to be up. 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:58.880 In twenty four hours, and I didn't want to try 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:00.520 to get You want to try to figure out. 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.240 How to make parogi's or borsh it's a process. 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.120 But that was like the other cheap place we would 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:09.560 eat drugs and alcohol. I think when I got to 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:14.200 New York, I was out here. I graduated college and 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.520 I wanted to do comedy. I came out here to 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.200 La Yeah, and I didn't really know my a buddy 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.520 of mine who I used to do like comedy skits 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:23.720 with in college, was a year ahead of me, and 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.920 he moved out here and we had written some stuff together. 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:28.480 So I was going to write with him, and he 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.200 lived in Culver City, so I moved to Culver City 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:33.680 in with him. We wrote a script and it was 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.400 a nightmare working with him. And I just want to 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.720 do comedy. So I had auditioned at the comedy store 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:43.240 and the improv or whatever, and then by coincidence, you know, 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.079 I got a PA job on a shoot that Mitzi Shore, 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:51.120 who owned the comedy store, was doing. And then I 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:52.839 was like, do you remember me, I auditioned for you. 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.000 She's like, yeah, you can be in paid regular. 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.120 So then I got a job as a doorman. 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:58.600 Okay, that's by the way. 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.800 I think it's so weird that the comedy door makes 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.280 or doesn't make their comics, but you know their comics 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:05.000 are like dorman. 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.679 Well, there was a system, yeah, and it was it 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:09.640 was the way it worked. 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:13.360 It was a singular thing, and all the doormen were comics. 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.760 And back then it was before Bringer shows and any 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:16.360 of that crap. 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.720 Right, So so when you were a door guy, at 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:19.480 the comedy store. 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.720 You were in the system and you'd be and I 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.160 loved the place, like and eventually I got pushed out 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:27.400 of the place in Culver City and I moved up 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.160 to uh Mitzi owned a house behind the comedy store 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.120 that she rent out to comics. So I lived in Crestilla, 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:36.760 And you know, at that time, the big acts or 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.080 who was I watching as a door guy became I 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:40.720 was the head door guy because no one wanted to 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.640 do it. It was ridiculous because I was doing blow and 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.520 I was like drinking. I was living the life, you know. 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.200 And then like the big comics at the time, I 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:55.400 was watching Damon in the main room, Cannison, Dice, who 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.280 else was like? Who were the big acts around? Like Cannison, 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.080 Sam Canison and Dice were of coming up at the 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.079 same time and they kind of blew up at that time. 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.000 But there were people I liked to watch. Belzer was there. 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.080 I used to love watching Damon Wayams, Louis Anderson. But 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:15.120 Damon would always be He'd take chances would be pretty weird, yeah, yeah, 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.680 because he would go on, I mean, this is nineteen 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:23.000 eighty seven, and he and I would be like, well, 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:24.560 what kind of are you going to do your act? 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.079 He's like, no, I think I'm gonna do a jazz 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:27.800 set tonight. And he would just push it and do 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:29.480 these characters and just push it. 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.880 Way over the edge. But Kennison was like that too. 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.400 But anyway, so I started hanging around with Cannison kinda 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.360 and doing a lot of drugs with that guy. So 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.560 the point being is when I left LA in eighty eight, 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:46.000 I was out of my mind from cocaine psychosis and 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.480 I was just crazy, like I was, you know, like 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.960 hallucinating and like I thought, paranoid and I was way 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.080 gone and things fell apart at the comedy. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:55.680 Store and I just left. 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:57.920 When you say they fell apart at the comedy store, well. 0:10:57.840 --> 0:10:59.680 I mes a door guy. There wasn't much to fall apart. 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:01.760 But I was using my mind from staying up too 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.959 much and not sleeping and hanging out with these demons. 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.439 These It was insane at that time. It was the 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:08.040 late eighties. 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.640 It was insane the people that were hanging around what 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.080 was going on there, you know, because there was like 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.319 this weird triangle between the roxy which was rock and 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.360 roll so and Monday nights at the store back then, 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:21.880 we're open. They were free, all the rooms were free, 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.440 so all the freaks would come and that was like 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.120 Kennison's big night. He'd show up at like Elevin. He 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:29.640 give me a bunch of money to go set up, 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.319 you know, a party at the house that would start 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.319 on Monday and go to like Wednesday. 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.440 It was just literally three days. 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:36.800 Yeah. 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.319 Crazy, So I lost my mind and I realized that, 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.880 you know, I remember the moment I kind of had 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.640 a meltdown in the parking lot because I was just 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.160 out of my mind and I had a falling out 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.520 with Sam over some weird shit, and I remember asking 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:55.240 the drug dealer. 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:56.640 I'm like, I don't know, man, I don't know what 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.920 to do. It's like things are falling apart, you know, 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.760 out of the group. And the drug dealer was like, 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:04.520 you got to you gotta leave. You got to go 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.560 do your own thing. So if the drug dealers telling 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:08.440 you to leave, wow, it's time to leave. 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.679 Yeah. So yeah, because yeah, So I went. 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:12.880 Home to New Mexico. 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.520 I got clean for the first time, went to rehab, 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:17.000 and I went back to Boston. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.160 Wait when you said home to New Mexico. 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:20.359 Yeah, I grew up in Albuqerque. 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:22.839 So you went back there, you got clean. 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.000 Yeah, I checked in and if I if I can 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.880 dry it out, and then I went back to Boston. 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:30.640 And how old were you, if you don't mind me asking, 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:31.600 around that time, that. 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.760 First time, so that was probably eighty eight, So sixty three, 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.480 seventy three, eighty three, I don't know, like twenty four 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:38.120 or twenty five. 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:38.920 You were young? 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:39.800 You were, Yeah. 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:41.640 I mean I went out there to you know, be 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:43.520 you know, a comedian right after college. But it's all 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.560 I wanted to do. So I went back to Boston 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.920 where you know, and I got clean, but I wasn't 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:50.960 really doing the thing. So I went back to Boston 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.200 and I auditioned for Barry Katz and I started, you know, 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.960 kind of trying to do open mics in Boston because 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.240 you know, I was I was, you know, I was 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.000 a non paid break or at the comedy store, but 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:02.600 you know, you didnt get a lot of stage time. 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.000 I wouldn't say I had chops, but I had experience. 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.160 And I've been hanging out with some you know, big 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:11.400 comics and I'd seen everybody. And I got a job 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.680 at that coffee shop, and I was sober I was 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.840 doing spots at catch Troizig Star, auditioned for this guy 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.520 Barry Katz, who's still a manager. He had a bunch 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.480 of rooms. And then like in eighty eight, and like 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.120 I guess it was August of eighty eight. I was 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.200 in a competition, but I was doing these. 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.599 Horrible one nighters. By the way, like, well that was it. 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:31.520 I mean like you were saying you're bombing when you 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:32.360 say horrible. 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.960 No, the way it worked, I mean, if you're interested. 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:37.439 I am. 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.000 So I get back to Boston and I'm just doing 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.319 open mics and there's a few clubs. There's a scene 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:44.280 in Boston. It's real. 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.600 There's a lot of Boston comics and I'm doing open mics. 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.920 And there was a competition in eighty eight called the 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.040 WBC on Comedy Riot, and it was like a process 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.200 of elimination, and I came in second. 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.360 And from like then from. 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.320 Eighty eight, late in eighty eight, because I came in 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:02.160 second the competition. 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:05.000 I started working as a comic in eighty eight. 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:09.960 And the way the work worked in Boston is there 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.559 were a few clubs, a few bookers that booked one 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:19.240 night ers. So these were comedy shows that you know discos, hotel, ballrooms, hotel, 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.440 you know, conference rooms, small bars like they would just 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.280 satellite gigs that would be booked through these agencies and 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.160 you'd drive anywhere from like a half hour to three 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.680 hours to five hours anywhere in New England to do 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.360 these one nighters and you'd go get a map and 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.920 you'd usually open for a headliner who came in to 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.440 do So that's how I started, is doing those one nighters. 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:41.960 And it was only a matter of time before I 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.680 started drinking and doing drugs again, about year and a half. 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:46.240 I was kind of every year and a half or so, 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:46.800 i'd get clean. 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:48.720 I'd go about year and a half without really doing 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.360 the work to stay sober, and then I'd ease back 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:53.640 into it. And it kind of went like that throughout 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:54.120 most of it. 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.480 When you say doing the work, like not going to 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:58.720 like the AA meetings or what have. 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:00.760 You, well I went for a bit, but I never 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:02.600 really got it. You know, if you're gonna do it 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.520 that way, you're gonna get it or you're not gonna 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:10.600 get it. The program, the way to use the program 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.800 in order to not do the thing that's you know, 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.280 making your life bad, Like you can go to meetings 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:18.960 and listen and kind of you know. 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:19.680 Absorb it. 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:24.440 But until I think you start to understand the ideas 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.960 for yourself, you don't really have any tools to not 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.000 drink like you know you or do drugs. You got 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.360 to sort of make phone calls to other people in 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:33.680 the room. 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:35.000 You got to go to the meetings and. 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:39.560 Keep it fresh, and you'll figure out how when you're 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.160 gonna use or you're gonna drink, to either go to 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.400 a meeting or make a phone call instead of doing 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:45.960 the drugs. 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:46.320 Yeah. 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.200 So that's tricky because you know you want to do 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:51.600 the drugs. 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.560 Like it's it's a definite pull. And by the way, 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.200 you're gonna have to start cooking for us. Did you 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:57.320 eat breakfast yet today? 0:15:57.440 --> 0:15:59.800 No? I waited too. I'm starving. 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:01.720 It's going to be good. There's no way it's not 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:02.240 gonna be good. 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.800 Well almost. You make it simple, just beyond burger. Do 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:06.000 you need oil when you do it? 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.280 Yeah? Yeah? You want me to turn this off? 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.400 Yep. I want to see you cook. Do you cook 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:11.640 on electric or no? 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:16.280 I got a guess of yeah, I have you do? Yeah. 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.400 But here in the studio, everyone complains about this electric store. 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.680 Yeah, I don't like electrics are sort of hard to control. 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.880 Yeah, I cook all the time because I I don't well, 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.240 not not just because I'm vegan. I've been cooking a 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.120 long time anyways, ever since I had a kitchen that 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.640 was functional. I cook because, like, if I go to 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.520 a restaurant, you don't know what you're gonna get. 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.080 Sometimes it's not that good, and I can I have this. 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.600 I'm able to cook and I can follow recipes, so 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.160 if I can make it better, why not cook? But 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.240 the only problem with that is you got to make 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:48.520 room for restaurants because if you cook all the time, 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:50.040 that means you got to clean up all the time. 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.840 That means you gotta you know, you know, keep your 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.920 kitchen full. There's good reasons. 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:56.040 To go out. 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:56.600 Yeah. 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.320 I used to always say, like as a single person, 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.240 I always else it was actually cheaper to eat out. 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:03.520 More than That's why I. 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.560 Even I think, what was it Thanksgiving? I think the 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:08.240 other day I was like. 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.720 Sometimes, especially now, the groceries are so expensive. Yeah, I'm like, 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.800 is it worth it financially to cook the meal or 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.119 to to get it out? I know for Thanksgiving, I 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:19.840 just did a seafood platter I just went and got 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:24.480 crab legs, yeah, lobster and some potatoes and called it 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:28.040 a day. And it was you know, cooking seafood is 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.920 like nothing, pretty easy. You just boil it and you're done. 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:31.440 Yeah. 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.919 For Thanksgiving, I usually go to my mother's in Florida 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:35.720 and cook for twenty people. 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.440 You cook, I do the whole You do. Oh, I would. 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:43.560 Love like I've got a system, man, Like I did 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:45.359 it this time, this first time I've gone back. Is 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:47.119 a vegan, so I had to figure out how to 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.040 do that, you know, for myself. 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.160 Yeah, but anyone else in the family vegan. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:52.000 Yeah, I have a cousin. 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:54.239 But it was pretty easy because all the sides can 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:58.119 be vegan outside of the turkey and the stuffing and 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.760 if you're gonna make turkey gravy. But I actually try 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.240 to make a vegan gravy which worked out pretty well, 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.680 and all the sides. So I made turkey stuffing, cranberry 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:11.160 sauce that's vegan. I made mashed potatoes with olive oil, rosemary, garlic. 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:16.040 I did stream beans, I did Brussels sprouts, I did yams. 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:17.400 All that can make vegan. 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:19.840 Now are you are you still comfortable touching me like 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:20.840 when you had the model. 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.919 Care like, I'm not like it wasn't really ethical. The 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.600 reason I did. I ate a lot of meat like 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:28.080 I had for years. 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:28.520 I had this. 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.480 Smoker that they gave me, and I was smoking briskets 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:33.639 and you know, chickens and just you know, eating a 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:34.320 lot of fish. 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.240 And then I don't know, I got smoked the fish 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.280 I try. I have smoked fish, Is it good? 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.680 It was okay to do, like juice style fish because 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:44.600 you know, I'm Jewish, I. 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:45.200 Grew up with it. 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.160 But you know, those smoke like you can smoke sable fish, 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.840 which is a black cod. It takes time, and you 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.800 know sometimes like there's certain types of food that are 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.240 better made by people who know how to do it, 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:01.360 like you know, like Indian food, you know you better 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.080 I'll find in a good Indian place and trying to 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.679 manage those spices. But I got a good recipe for 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:07.840 china masala that I. 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.840 Make now really, yeah, you call it china massa. I 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:12.480 love te Tika masala. 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.960 Tika masaut well, chaina is the chickpeas so tika is 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.400 chicken right, or make it with meat? 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.760 The chauina is uh, it's just chickpeas. 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:23.320 Did you make it from scratch? 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.280 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I like it. I'll cook for 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:27.720 the week, man, I mean I like it. 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.119 Like I got brown rice at home right now, and 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.040 then like just have that for a base, I get 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.240 ko kalifar or whatever. And then you know, for proteins, 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:39.800 I've been air frying tempe which is great. Tempe is 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.159 it's like a soy it's made from soy beans from 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.480 men and toy beans or these are pretty good. 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:46.320 I'll eat these. 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:50.040 Sometimes I'll do air fried tofu beans and rice some 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.720 different kinds, and I'll do uh, you know, I'm kind 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.080 of doing a macro thing. These be this restaurant in 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.160 New York called Angelica Kitchen, which was really the sort 0:19:59.200 --> 0:19:59.639 of the. 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:03.480 First kind of macro macro What does that mean. 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:07.639 Well, it's a system of eating a vegan where you know, 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.480 you get all these different things to balance your food. 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:14.960 So usually there's a grain, a bean of some kind 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:20.080 a protein, and then there's a vegetable and maybe some 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.480 fermented stuff. And she used to, you know, do seaweed 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:25.840 salad too, So like you make a bowl of that, 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:27.520 so you get everything you need. 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.240 And then when you say protein like you would just. 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:32.919 Do like a usually for there it was Tempe or 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.800 Tofu or something like. There's not a or Satan. There's 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:40.080 not a ton of you know, vegan protein is you 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:42.640 really get it from the vegetables. But you know, Tempe, 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:44.760 Tofu and Satan. 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.720 Left off with you being sober for a year and 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:03.800 a half and then you took a nose dive back. 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.679 Oh yeah, so I was in Boston right and you know, 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:11.959 doing the one nighters and yeah, eventually I started drinking 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:15.960 using drugs again, but then I was going then what happened? 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:16.160 Is? 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:18.360 I just have one question for you. Drinking and doing 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:18.760 the drugs. 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:20.520 Was it an every day pull or was it something 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.200 bad happened and then you wanted to do it. 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.159 No, it's just part of my life, you know, smoking 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:31.119 weed every day, you know, drinking at night and doing 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:36.240 you know blow occasionally. You know, I wasn't a daily blow, dude. 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.440 That's a big expense. 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.400 But you know, in Boston we used to be able 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.840 to drink for free at Catcherizing Star. So you go 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.560 do the one nighters and then you race back to 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.719 Boston to get in on you know, the free blooze 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:51.160 at night. 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.360 So it was. It was pretty regular. 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:58.359 But in eighty nine, you know, I was you know, 0:21:58.400 --> 0:21:59.840 a lot of the people I started with were starting 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:01.639 to break, you know a little bit, and a lot 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:02.879 of them moved to LA. 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:06.280 Like Dave Cross and that crew. 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:08.560 They were going to do sketch comedy and they came 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:12.280 out here to make Mister Show eventually, and I was like, 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:14.680 I'm not I'm not a collaborative person on a comic. 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:19.760 So I moved to New York in eighty nine, and yeah, 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:20.960 I'd gotten sober again. 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:22.480 And I got to New York and I was on 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:24.000 the Lower East Side and I was trying to break 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:26.280 into the clubs and doing, you know, wandering around New 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:30.159 York a lot. And I lived right on a street 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:32.399 I was just full of heroin junkies. 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:33.600 Like it was before New York cleaned up. 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:35.960 And there was a doorway like right next to my 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.800 house where these junkies would line up like it was 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:41.399 a movie theater to get dope in the morning. And 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:43.360 it was so sad because I'd see them every day 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:47.120 and I was sober, yeah, and you know, I would 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:49.720 be like, man, that's horrible, what a horrible life. And 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:51.080 that went on for about a year and a half 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:53.280 and something turned in my head. I'm like, wow, I 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:56.720 wonder what it's like. No, yeah, it's right next door, 0:22:57.200 --> 0:22:57.760 you know what I mean. 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:00.320 The heroin junkies in New York when I was a 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.000 little kid in up here, and I'd be like, uh, well, no, 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:04.639 if I go back now, I see them, but I 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:06.400 could recognize them more. But when I was a kid, 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:08.720 my parents would always be like, this what happens if 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:10.119 you try to smoke cigarettes. 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:11.159 This is where you end up. 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:13.720 And you'd be like, okay, never do cigarettes. But they'd 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:15.080 be like that was a doctor and he had a 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:16.480 family and he lost his whole family. 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:19.560 You'd be like wow, So we just think scared straight. 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:20.680 Scared straight. 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:24.040 I think my twin out of four kids, was the 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:27.360 only want to try weed at like maybe seventeen. But 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:30.720 the rest of us are pretty scared straight from those 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:33.600 like this person had a whole life and lost it, 0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:35.399 you know, and you see them like kind of you know, 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:37.680 a little balancing act, and you'd be like. 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:40.399 Oh, yeah, there was a lot of the methadone that 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:43.800 was like you'd see him wandering around, yes, well, well. 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.680 Thank god, Like when I did it, like in eighty nine, 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:47.679 or wait, what was it? 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:49.399 Did you end up trying it or not? 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:52.080 Yeah, I eventually did. Yeah, I wouldn't try it. I didn't. 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:53.120 I didn't shoot or anything. 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:55.680 But it was at that time that was so clean 0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:57.199 that a lot of people were snorting it. So I 0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:59.320 remember I went over there after a year and a 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:00.920 half of watching these people. 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:02.359 And were you one hundred percent sober at. 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:03.640 The time or yeah, pretty sober? 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:06.320 Yeah, and that's your first comeback kind of. 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:08.399 I mean I might have been drinking a little bit, 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:10.159 but I remember buying it and then going in my 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:12.359 house and snorting it and not really know any like, 0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:15.320 and I just got sick and I was like sweaty, 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:18.359 and I kind of passed out, fell asleep, and I'm like, 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:20.840 this is not for me, thank. 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:22.600 God, thank god it was. 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:25.240 I was a go fast guy like coke and booze. 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:25.520 Yeah. 0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:27.800 Yeah, the sort of like nodding out thing was not 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:32.440 my not my bag. So he got it didn't stick. Yeah. 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:35.000 Do you ever think, like what would have happened had 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:38.439 that like geez, your life would have been way different, right. 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:43.000 Yeah, you know, there's there's certain I guess miracles or 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:44.560 just you know, good luck. 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:49.200 I always had a fairly healthy fear of drugs. 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:51.280 But there were times in my life, you know, even 0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:52.840 when I was doing them, you know, I'd had some 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:57.399 sort of idea because I grew up like idealizing, idolizing druggies, 0:24:57.440 --> 0:25:00.480 you know, like Keith Richards and William Burrows, many of 0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:03.720 these writers you can be kowski whoever, the beat necks. 0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:06.520 I thought that was like how you did it. That's 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:11.760 what being an artist was about. I had romanticize cigarettes, drugs, booze. 0:25:12.600 --> 0:25:14.879 But I always was afraid that if I lost my mind, 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:16.600 I would have to like pull out. And when I 0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:19.320 was in LA and I lost my mind, I kind 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:21.320 of that was. That was as far out as. 0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:22.800 I really can you say you lost your mind, like 0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:25.280 you had a real meltdown, like where you're like, No. 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:27.560 I had cocaine psychosis. It took like a year and 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:28.640 a half to get rid of it. 0:25:28.720 --> 0:25:30.400 Okay, I don't understand what that means. 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:32.719 It just means you like either through lack of sleep 0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:36.000 or it's I think it was primarily lack of sleep. 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:38.320 Like people who do meth now lose their mind pretty 0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:42.040 for real, pretty quickly with this meth. But with me, 0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:44.480 it was just because I was sleep deprived, and eventually 0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:47.199 you get a little psychotic, you know, you start you know, 0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:51.800 seeing like you know, I, well, I got very mystically. 0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:53.760 Paranoid, do you know what I mean? Like I used 0:25:53.800 --> 0:25:56.200 to do a joke about hearing voices in your head. 0:25:56.320 --> 0:25:58.480 Yeah, the joke was like, when you hear voices in 0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:00.880 your head, it's never one, it's always And he spent 0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:02.680 a lot of time trying to get them to pick 0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:03.840 a fucking leader. 0:26:06.119 --> 0:26:06.920 I had. 0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:09.600 I had a meltdown when I was thirty and I 0:26:09.640 --> 0:26:13.320 was like hallucinating, like and it was really just sleep deprivation, right, 0:26:13.480 --> 0:26:15.439 But they ended up putting me in a hospital and 0:26:15.520 --> 0:26:19.080 the doctors were like schizophrenic, bipolar PTSD, and I was like, uh, 0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:21.159 let's just try giving me some sleep. 0:26:21.320 --> 0:26:22.800 Yeah, And it worked, and it worked. 0:26:23.160 --> 0:26:26.280 I did get better and I completely came back to reality. 0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:29.800 But of course, you know, I had to be strong 0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:32.399 enough to you know, tell doctors that no, I'm not 0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:35.240 I'm not going to take whatever drugs you're assigning for 0:26:35.400 --> 0:26:36.760 a temporary. 0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:40.080 Well yeah, And the thing about that kind of manic 0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:43.880 break or psychotic break is that it does screw your 0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:46.560 head up. So like what I realized that I had 0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:49.800 created this evil sort of back you know, mystical backstory 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:51.560 to the comedy store, and I thought, you know, people 0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:54.320 were like I had, like there was a big, big 0:26:54.359 --> 0:26:58.080 ideas in my head. And it took like really a 0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:02.480 couple of years to you know, get rid of those 0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:06.399 hallucinations or that way of thinking. Yeah, yeah, but you know, 0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:10.000 I eventually went back to the store. But anyway, so yeah, 0:27:10.080 --> 0:27:12.520 so I tried the heroin and then I realized, like, 0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:14.399 you know, I got to get out of here. And 0:27:14.440 --> 0:27:16.040 I'd been with a woman for a while and then 0:27:16.040 --> 0:27:17.960 we broke up and she moved to San Francisco. So 0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:21.080 I just like, not unlike when I left New York. 0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:22.640 I was just like, I got to get out of here. 0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:24.639 So I gave my bed to the guy across the 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:27.680 hall who was sleeping on the floor, and I gave 0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:29.600 my a lot of my stuff to the homeless people 0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:32.320 that were selling things on the street down there, and 0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:32.960 I just got in. 0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:36.480 My car and I drove to San Francisco with no 0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:37.760 plan and. 0:27:37.680 --> 0:27:39.480 I had I remember, I was like, had a little 0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:41.199 bit of that heroin and I was smoking it with 0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:44.720 reef with weed. I drove like twenty two hours in 0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:46.600 one stretch and I just showed up on this woman's 0:27:46.600 --> 0:27:48.240 doorstep and I'm like, can. 0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:51.160 I hang out, you know, and she took me back in. 0:27:52.160 --> 0:27:54.560 And then I was in San Francisco and then I 0:27:54.600 --> 0:27:57.199 shove it up again, okay, and then you know, I 0:27:57.240 --> 0:27:58.480 started doing more comedy there. 0:27:58.480 --> 0:28:01.320 That was a big, big change. It was a good 0:28:01.359 --> 0:28:02.240 place to do comedy. 0:28:02.280 --> 0:28:04.760 They had a very open mind about what you could 0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:06.159 do on stage and how it worked. 0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:08.920 And then I did a contest there. I did it twice. 0:28:08.960 --> 0:28:09.520 I didn't think. 0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:12.240 The first one was maybe ninety two or ninety three, 0:28:12.280 --> 0:28:14.879 and I came I didn't farewell, and then again I 0:28:15.240 --> 0:28:18.280 came in second in like ninety four, and now you know, 0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:20.000 I was start in the middle. I started to headline 0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:21.600 a little bit, and then I got a job on 0:28:21.680 --> 0:28:25.199 television in New York, is all. 0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:28.440 And then I just have one other question, When did 0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:31.520 you realize that comedy was the path you were going 0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:31.920 to choose. 0:28:32.040 --> 0:28:33.960 I always wanted to be comic and I didn't see 0:28:34.000 --> 0:28:34.800 any other thing to. 0:28:34.800 --> 0:28:38.240 Do, Okay, since you like in high school. 0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:42.120 Yeah, yeah, since I was a kid really and I 0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:43.160 never really had a plan. 0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:45.600 B I never like, by the time I took that 0:28:45.680 --> 0:28:46.320 TV gig. 0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:48.520 I just I didn't want to do it because it 0:28:48.560 --> 0:28:50.160 was not the kind of comedy I was doing. 0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:50.760 You know. 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:54.360 I was kind of aggressive and you know, like shocking 0:28:54.480 --> 0:28:57.200 and trying to you know, be very angry. 0:28:57.880 --> 0:28:59.840 And then but I was broke, you know, so I 0:28:59.840 --> 0:29:01.160 got offered this TV job. 0:29:01.920 --> 0:29:03.080 How'd you get offered it? 0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:03.240 Like? 0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:04.240 What happened? 0:29:05.440 --> 0:29:07.280 Because you're in San France? Did you have an agent 0:29:07.360 --> 0:29:08.400 at the time or something? 0:29:08.880 --> 0:29:14.840 Not yet? Really how did that gig happen? I'm trying 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:15.280 to remember. 0:29:15.440 --> 0:29:19.000 It was like it was Comedy Central very early on, 0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:22.080 you know, and. 0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:30.160 It was just it was like a clip show. It 0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:31.640 was called Short Attention Spent Theater. 0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:33.920 It had been hosted in different forms by John Stewart 0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:34.560 and some other people. 0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:36.200 And this is sort of the last version of it. 0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:39.160 I'm trying to remember how the guy picked me, this 0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:43.960 guy Robert Small, But it was basically me in this 0:29:44.040 --> 0:29:47.920 fake vault where I was like supposedly showing clips of 0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:50.440 comics and comic movies, but it's really all driven by 0:29:50.440 --> 0:29:52.240 promotional stuff and they just wanted me. 0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:54.280 It's like a VJ job, which was it? 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:58.000 Just I was devastated because it didn't serve my voice, 0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:00.000 but I didn't see that I had a choice. 0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:02.200 Yeah, but it was paying well. 0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:04.160 I'd never made that kind of money. 0:30:04.240 --> 0:30:08.360 So what I was doing for the first six months 0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:11.080 of it, I would stay in San Francisco living with 0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:13.760 that woman and that would go back to New York 0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:16.880 for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and strip the show. 0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:18.720 So you would do four shows. 0:30:19.160 --> 0:30:21.640 At a time, and I fled back to San Francisco 0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:23.960 for like five days and I fly back to New York. 0:30:24.000 --> 0:30:24.920 That went on for six months. 0:30:24.960 --> 0:30:27.040 They got me a subw at New York and then 0:30:27.120 --> 0:30:29.080 eventually I moved back to New York in like the 0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:32.160 mid nineties for the rest of that year, and I 0:30:32.200 --> 0:30:33.959 had to fight to get myself a writer. I had 0:30:33.960 --> 0:30:36.200 to fight for us to do comedy bits because they 0:30:36.200 --> 0:30:38.120 just wanted me to be a talking head. I was 0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:40.320 already mad that I was doing this job. I was 0:30:40.320 --> 0:30:42.880 a pain in the ass and like some people that 0:30:42.960 --> 0:30:45.280 I worked with, you know, I think they thought I 0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:47.880 was a complete asshole, and I probably was. I don't 0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:50.719 think I was. I don't remember the drugs being a 0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:53.480 deal then. But I learned how to re prompter, I 0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:55.480 learned how to be on TV. I got you know, 0:30:55.520 --> 0:30:58.440 I got into the Union. You know, I got insurance, 0:30:58.520 --> 0:31:01.400 I got all that stuff. But I hated it. I 0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:03.320 hated every minute of it. But I knew that there 0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:05.280 was a good thing to do it. 0:31:05.360 --> 0:31:06.160 Yeah, but didn't. 0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:08.200 It didn't really take off. Its surfaced the network. 0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:10.040 And then after that was done, I was in New 0:31:10.120 --> 0:31:13.240 York and just leaning into comedy, and I started to 0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:16.240 so I was in ninety four ninety five. And the 0:31:16.280 --> 0:31:19.280 other thing about comedy at that time, if it's interesting 0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:23.280 to you, is that this looks pretty good, right, it 0:31:23.320 --> 0:31:25.440 looks really good. 0:31:26.640 --> 0:31:27.200 Sure. 0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:30.120 The other thing that was is that, like there was 0:31:30.160 --> 0:31:33.640 a lot of basic cable television, right, so we were 0:31:33.680 --> 0:31:37.080 all getting these gigs like Evening the Improv, Caroline's Comedy Hour, 0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:40.520 Comedy on the Road, MTV half Hours, Like there was 0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:43.680 all these little TV opportunities that ultimately didn't mean much, 0:31:43.880 --> 0:31:44.719 but they were something. 0:31:44.880 --> 0:31:48.120 Yeah, So we were doing that stuff. 0:31:48.200 --> 0:31:51.880 MTV always had some sort of comedy showcasing, so we. 0:31:51.840 --> 0:31:54.080 Were kind of working towards that, trying to get on Letterman. 0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:59.240 You know, Conan started in ninety four, and but you know, 0:31:59.280 --> 0:32:01.320 I got back into the drugs and that go crazy. 0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:06.719 But yeah, like they that's when alternative comedy started, and 0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:09.040 you know, we were doing this Lower east Side thing, 0:32:10.120 --> 0:32:13.880 and you know, then it became like I started drinking again. 0:32:13.920 --> 0:32:16.920 I married that woman, the woman in Sanford. 0:32:17.920 --> 0:32:20.040 Yeah, you know, I met her at my brother's wedding 0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:21.840 and she knew I was kind of a wild card. 0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:23.200 But we got married. 0:32:23.320 --> 0:32:26.320 We you know, we were living down on you know, 0:32:26.400 --> 0:32:28.960 Third Avenue and sixteenth and then the all comedy things 0:32:29.000 --> 0:32:32.680 started and I started, you know, using coke again and drinking, 0:32:32.680 --> 0:32:34.840 but I was trying to hide it and keep it 0:32:35.120 --> 0:32:37.640 under control. And we got married and we moved out 0:32:37.640 --> 0:32:41.840 to Queens and yeah, I don't know, like it was 0:32:41.920 --> 0:32:45.240 grim because I'd done the TV thing, I was doing comedy. 0:32:45.320 --> 0:32:47.760 Now married to this woman, she kind of wants to 0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:51.120 have kids and stuff and I and I was not sober, 0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:53.840 and I really sort of fell into a kind of 0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:56.960 bitterness and a kind of resignation, like, all right, well, 0:32:56.960 --> 0:32:58.680 I guess I'm not really going to make it in 0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:01.400 show business. Maybe I can get a job on a 0:33:01.480 --> 0:33:04.880 local TV show here I'd done some segments for and 0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:06.680 just write it out in New York as one of 0:33:06.720 --> 0:33:08.520 those people that kind of gets by. 0:33:09.120 --> 0:33:11.280 And it was pretty devastating. 0:33:10.720 --> 0:33:14.680 Well, like what drove that message to your mind? Was 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:17.560 it like you you felt like you weren't booking enough 0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:21.080 comedy clubs or were you possibly bombing? Like what made 0:33:21.080 --> 0:33:22.600 you stay? Well, maybe this is. 0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:25.240 I wasn't bombing, but I was a specific type of 0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:27.760 act and I wasn't really getting much traction. 0:33:28.360 --> 0:33:31.280 Like everyone in you know, you know, like other comics 0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:31.840 respected me. 0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:34.320 People knew who I was, but you know, people thought 0:33:34.360 --> 0:33:36.360 that I was doing a character or what. But I 0:33:36.400 --> 0:33:39.560 was really angry and kind of like intense and it 0:33:39.600 --> 0:33:41.480 wasn't really a character. I don't think I got into 0:33:41.520 --> 0:33:44.160 comedy to entertain. I think it was like this is 0:33:44.200 --> 0:33:48.160 how I'm going to you know, engage my voice, is 0:33:48.160 --> 0:33:50.000 how I'm going to find myself. 0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:51.640 How I'm going to say what I want to say. 0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:53.560 Because for me, when I was growing up, comics I 0:33:53.560 --> 0:33:56.640 always were able to kind of you know, make you know, 0:33:56.960 --> 0:33:59.120 kind of make things understandable, disarm things. 0:33:59.200 --> 0:34:01.960 Yeah, he's year make you see things. 0:34:01.760 --> 0:34:03.800 A different way. Like I thought, that's an art, you know, 0:34:03.880 --> 0:34:05.880 so I want to do that. And the guys that 0:34:05.960 --> 0:34:09.520 I looked up to were kind of, you know, said things. 0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:11.680 So it was really like I don't think I ever 0:34:11.680 --> 0:34:14.319 thought in terms of entertaining people. I'm not sure I 0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:17.160 do now either. But so I wasn't trying to like, 0:34:17.800 --> 0:34:20.600 you know, sell arenas or anything. I just thought that eventually, 0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:23.640 because I was, you know, doing it my way, that 0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:26.920 it would come around. So at that time I wasn't 0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:29.239 coming around. And I started doing Conan like I did 0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:31.080 Conan like three or four times a year. I became 0:34:31.560 --> 0:34:32.960 a popular panel guess. 0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:35.640 But at that time you were doubting yourself. 0:34:36.280 --> 0:34:38.800 Well, yeah, of course, because I just kept chipping away. 0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:42.319 But I couldn't really sell tickets, and you know, I 0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:44.200 would do you know, I do club work, but it 0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:46.640 was you know, I go do the clubs, but it 0:34:46.680 --> 0:34:49.160 would be you know, you weren't making a lot of money, yeah, 0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:51.920 because you were an unknown headliner really and unless you 0:34:51.920 --> 0:34:55.239 can draw people, which I never understood. I never I 0:34:55.280 --> 0:34:58.360 wasn't particularly pleasant to club owners. 0:34:58.400 --> 0:34:59.680 I never really thought about. 0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:01.080 Like, I got to come figure out a way to 0:35:01.080 --> 0:35:01.719 come back here. 0:35:01.840 --> 0:35:03.200 I got to build these networks. 0:35:03.200 --> 0:35:05.040 I was just sort of like, fuck you, I do 0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:07.440 it this way, and you know, eventually people get it. 0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:09.200 Yeah, yeah, and they just they didn't. 0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:10.240 Yeah. 0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:13.800 I mean that's you know, that's. 0:35:12.640 --> 0:35:15.800 The long and short of it. But I'm trying to 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:17.800 think what eventually happened? 0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:22.000 Did you so? But whereas your marriage going fine at 0:35:22.000 --> 0:35:23.319 the time and all of that. 0:35:23.360 --> 0:35:28.719 Or what happened was, uh, I'm so sorry here you 0:35:28.719 --> 0:35:29.200 want to do that? 0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:30.239 I definitely want to do it. 0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:32.360 Sauce it so right now we're just for all the 0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:37.000 listeners in the Japanese barbecue sauce. Mark has plated our 0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:42.080 plates with brown rice vegetables. I just drowned my uh 0:35:42.320 --> 0:35:45.560 beyond burger in Japanese barbecue sauce. 0:35:45.800 --> 0:35:48.000 But I'm more excited about the tahini sauce because guys, 0:35:48.040 --> 0:35:48.440 guess what. 0:35:48.800 --> 0:35:52.200 I actually made a good job and I was nervous 0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:52.640 about it. 0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:55.840 Yeah, so you put. 0:35:55.680 --> 0:35:57.920 It on the vegetables, That's what I did. Yeah, I'm 0:35:57.920 --> 0:35:58.320 gonna make it. 0:35:58.400 --> 0:35:59.239 I'm gonna put them on. 0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:00.400 The side saucy. 0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:05.520 Sure sauces are fun. So the marriage. Yeah, So what 0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:09.600 happened was in the middle of this sweaty, bitter period 0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:14.160 where I'd given up and resigned myself to being you know, 0:36:14.920 --> 0:36:18.320 just an average you know, b room headliner and trying 0:36:18.320 --> 0:36:20.680 to make do in New York to service this marriage. 0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:23.799 I wasn't happy and woman came up to me at 0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:29.320 a comedy club and she's gorgeous and she's like, you know, hey. 0:36:29.120 --> 0:36:31.319 You're Mark Maren and I'm like yeah, and she goes, 0:36:31.440 --> 0:36:33.319 what happened to you? Like? 0:36:33.440 --> 0:36:36.560 And she was like a comic, she was a fan 0:36:37.120 --> 0:36:38.560 and I'm like, you know, what are you talking about. 0:36:38.640 --> 0:36:41.920 She's like, well, you would call fucked up and I'm like, 0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:44.200 I guess and she's like, well, I can help you 0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:46.360 gets over if you want to do it. And I'm like, 0:36:46.400 --> 0:36:48.879 what with aa or whatever? She's like yeah, and I'm 0:36:48.920 --> 0:36:50.840 like and she's so pretty. So I'm like I just 0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:55.880 wanted to do anything she wanted. So I started just 0:36:55.920 --> 0:36:59.279 following her around and you know, she started taking me 0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:04.560 to meetings and you know, we started having a thing, 0:37:05.360 --> 0:37:09.000 and yep, the marriage fell apart, you know, because you know, 0:37:09.400 --> 0:37:11.000 you know, I kind of wanted it to. But it 0:37:11.040 --> 0:37:13.840 was kind of dramatic because she, you know, my wife 0:37:13.840 --> 0:37:16.920 found out about her and I didn't know how it 0:37:16.960 --> 0:37:18.759 was all going to go down, but it went down 0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:21.839 pretty dramatically, like you know, changing the locks. I had 0:37:21.840 --> 0:37:23.799 to find another place to live, I had to stay 0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:26.440 sober through all that shit. There was the drama of 0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:28.680 like being with this other woman and being like, you know, 0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:31.640 I'm all right, my marriage is coming on, glue. 0:37:31.320 --> 0:37:33.359 Are you are you in? Are you are we going 0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:36.200 to do this or what? And she reluctantly. 0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:38.120 She's younger than me, and she was like, I guess, 0:37:38.280 --> 0:37:41.000 and so I guess, well that's enough. So yeah, the 0:37:41.040 --> 0:37:44.839 marriage fell apart has sublet a place way downtown. It 0:37:44.880 --> 0:37:48.759 was like a really chaotic time. But I was going 0:37:48.760 --> 0:37:51.359 to meetings like a lot and I and that's when 0:37:51.400 --> 0:37:53.880 I kind of like, you know, I was going like 0:37:53.960 --> 0:37:55.960 every day at least once a day, and I locked 0:37:55.960 --> 0:37:57.680 in with a bunch of people that were just getting 0:37:57.680 --> 0:37:59.800 sober and we're going to meetings all over the on 0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:02.520 was taking me in meetings. We were going to meetings together. 0:38:03.000 --> 0:38:05.560 And that was like ninety nine, and that's when it's stuck, 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:07.640 you know. So the first time I got sober was 0:38:07.640 --> 0:38:10.880 in eighty eight, right, and then when it stuck was 0:38:11.120 --> 0:38:12.960 ninety nine. So I was in and out for over 0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:15.680 ten years. Wow, And now I got twenty four. But 0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:18.839 for whatever happened with that marriage, because I ended up 0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:19.479 marrying that. 0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:24.880 Girl, Oh my god, this is delicious. Between the Tahiti, 0:38:25.320 --> 0:38:31.280 the Barbue, sauce even absolutely delicious. 0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:49.240 We do, I get sober. 0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:53.000 I'm with this woman who's stunning, and I'm just doing 0:38:53.000 --> 0:38:55.360 the comedy. I'm trying, you know. Then I got a deal. 0:38:56.520 --> 0:38:58.560 Like there's so many side stories. You know, I was 0:38:58.600 --> 0:39:04.000 doing the festivals to Montreal, and I've already been doing 0:39:04.040 --> 0:39:08.680 comedy at that point for you know, eighty eight. It 0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:13.200 was like ninety ninety nine. So I've been at it 0:39:13.200 --> 0:39:15.960 for ten years and I've had a lot of little. 0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:18.040 TV appearances and some opportunities. 0:39:18.040 --> 0:39:20.759 I got management and an agent because of that TV 0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:24.520 show in Comedy Central, and you know, a big manager 0:39:24.680 --> 0:39:26.400 and the agent that I was with was very good 0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:27.719 at getting people deals. 0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:32.160 I'm trying to think with that. I had a few deals. 0:39:31.960 --> 0:39:34.360 But during this whole period, you're not taking any side jobs, 0:39:34.400 --> 0:39:36.360 any side hustles, not. 0:39:36.200 --> 0:39:38.799 Since all show business one way or the other. But 0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:40.759 it was lean for a long time. And then when 0:39:40.760 --> 0:39:42.720 I did that TV show, I was making some money. 0:39:43.680 --> 0:39:45.480 And then but then you know, I got divorced, so 0:39:45.520 --> 0:39:47.200 there goes all that money. I wrote a book, I 0:39:47.200 --> 0:39:49.640 did a one man show, you know, and I had 0:39:49.840 --> 0:39:52.359 but I was not able to save much money because 0:39:52.400 --> 0:39:55.640 it really it comes and goes in this game. I 0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:57.839 didn't get a big amount of money for the book deal, 0:39:59.160 --> 0:40:00.759 but I wrote a book on a one man show 0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:04.160 I did call Jerusalem Syndrome, and then that book came out. 0:40:04.320 --> 0:40:07.719 But it's like a thirty thousand dollars deal, you know, 0:40:08.120 --> 0:40:10.240 with the idea that if it sells, you make more money. 0:40:10.280 --> 0:40:12.000 But you know, it didn't really make any more money, 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:15.120 and then taxes takes some and so. But the book 0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:17.960 comes out like within weeks or a month or so 0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:20.919 of nine to eleven. So we're I'm in New York, 0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:23.759 I'm nine to eleven. I was out in Queen's I 0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:27.000 remember seeing it on the computer on the AOL homepage, 0:40:27.120 --> 0:40:30.200 you know, and just one of the towers was down 0:40:30.280 --> 0:40:31.879 and I went up to the roof and it was 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:38.200 like crazy, man, it was crazy. So you know, I saw, 0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:40.960 you know, there was it wasn't a sound in the world, 0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:43.719 just you know, I was on the roof. It was 0:40:43.760 --> 0:40:47.120 a clear fall day, no cars, no planes, no nothing, 0:40:47.160 --> 0:40:49.319 and you just saw the smoke coming off you know, 0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:52.920 downtown and then you know, the second tower went down. 0:40:52.719 --> 0:40:56.680 And it was it was like completely. 0:40:57.880 --> 0:41:03.520 I can't even explain it, you know, entire world change, 0:41:03.680 --> 0:41:09.440 and we had to deal with that horrendous attack and catastrophe. 0:41:09.640 --> 0:41:12.880 As a city, everything just sort of stopped, you know, 0:41:12.920 --> 0:41:15.360 and you couldn't go downtown and that hole was smoking. 0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:18.160 Then the signs were going up, you know, missing people everywhere, 0:41:18.200 --> 0:41:21.120 and the smell of the burning was in the city 0:41:21.160 --> 0:41:23.759 for like what seemed like months. We didn't know when 0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:26.040 we were going to start doing comedy again, but we 0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:28.880 started not long after down at the comedy cellar a 0:41:28.920 --> 0:41:31.360 few weeks, you know, trying to do it and people 0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:34.319 were complete shock and they didn't know what to do. 0:41:34.400 --> 0:41:39.000 Everyone was walking around totally you know, in trauma. 0:41:40.080 --> 0:41:41.560 And you know, we started doing comedy. 0:41:41.560 --> 0:41:43.719 It was pretty dicey because I was trying to be 0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:46.359 provocative and talk about the politics of things, and there 0:41:46.440 --> 0:41:49.600 was like almost got in a fight with a marine 0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:52.120 and the comedy club and it was just a crazy time. 0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:52.959 Yeah. 0:41:53.040 --> 0:41:56.160 And the woman that I was with, she she that 0:41:56.320 --> 0:41:59.200 day was going to work at a job she had downtown. 0:41:59.320 --> 0:42:02.040 She got out downtown and it was raining. 0:42:01.719 --> 0:42:03.960 Ash and then she had to walk all the way 0:42:04.040 --> 0:42:05.600 up and I couldn't get touch with her all day. 0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:08.239 But she it just broke her and she was like 0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:11.439 she left New York and she left and went home 0:42:11.480 --> 0:42:14.919 to Seattle, and I was there kind of writing out 0:42:14.960 --> 0:42:17.480 the aftermath of nine to eleven. And then when she 0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:20.040 finally you know, kind of pulled herself together, She's like, 0:42:20.080 --> 0:42:22.040 I can't live in New York anymore and I want 0:42:22.080 --> 0:42:26.120 to go to La. So we moved to La and 0:42:26.719 --> 0:42:29.000 I had a deal at that time. I'd gotten a 0:42:29.040 --> 0:42:35.920 deal with Fox Studios at the Montreal Festival, which was 0:42:35.960 --> 0:42:38.840 a development deal. Gave me some money, gave me a cushion. 0:42:39.320 --> 0:42:43.000 We moved set up shop here and you know, I 0:42:43.000 --> 0:42:44.320 sort of had to start over again. 0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:46.520 The deal didn't really go anywhere. 0:42:46.600 --> 0:42:46.799 You know. 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:48.360 I got set up with a writer, and. 0:42:49.960 --> 0:42:51.560 I've had a few of those deals where you write 0:42:51.560 --> 0:42:53.360 a pilot script and it doesn't go anywhere, but you 0:42:53.400 --> 0:42:54.239 make money on those. 0:42:54.440 --> 0:42:55.120 Yeah. 0:42:54.640 --> 0:42:57.520 Yeah, so you can bank some like serious cash and 0:42:57.719 --> 0:42:59.520 just like and I'm still weird about money, like I 0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:00.640 don't spend I did much. 0:43:01.680 --> 0:43:03.759 Well, yeah, well I would imagine in this business, like 0:43:04.320 --> 0:43:06.240 I actually I am a firm believer. 0:43:06.280 --> 0:43:08.960 I'm living on a budget and I don't go over it. 0:43:09.640 --> 0:43:13.200 You know, if I made one hundred thousand dollars in 0:43:13.239 --> 0:43:15.239 a month, which I've never actually done so, you know, 0:43:15.600 --> 0:43:17.600 but you know, if I were, I would still live 0:43:17.640 --> 0:43:21.160 on my you know, five thousand dollars month budget, and 0:43:21.280 --> 0:43:23.520 I would just can the rest. I wouldn't even I 0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:27.080 would not even be in my sight like that's I'm 0:43:27.120 --> 0:43:28.160 strict with my budgets. 0:43:28.280 --> 0:43:30.560 I don't know what it is like. I don't know 0:43:30.600 --> 0:43:32.239 if I was ever in it for the money. I'm 0:43:32.239 --> 0:43:35.480 happy because there were times I. 0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:39.640 Could get up to where we are now, but throughout 0:43:39.640 --> 0:43:43.000 this time, Look, I'm doing comedy. You know, I had 0:43:43.000 --> 0:43:45.440 some deal money. And now I'm in La and I've 0:43:45.480 --> 0:43:47.680 got to re establish myself in La. I go back 0:43:47.680 --> 0:43:49.759 to the store, which I really haven't been at since 0:43:49.840 --> 0:43:50.920 I lost my mind. 0:43:52.680 --> 0:43:56.040 I get back in there primarily because. 0:43:55.880 --> 0:43:58.200 You know, there was a new booker there and I 0:43:58.280 --> 0:44:03.040 had sort of some sort of the mythic reputation because 0:44:03.080 --> 0:44:04.960 of the book I wrote. There's a chapter in Jerusalem 0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:07.400 Syndrome about the comedy store and about my experience with 0:44:07.480 --> 0:44:09.839 Sam and about the drugs and everything and the craziness, 0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:12.000 and some young comics had read it and put me 0:44:12.040 --> 0:44:14.120 into this zone of like, yeah, that's you know. 0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:16.120 Maren, When did podcast enter? 0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:19.080 Like I you know, I still wasn't able to sell 0:44:19.080 --> 0:44:21.279 tickets as a comic, you know, but I was a 0:44:21.360 --> 0:44:21.879 known guy. 0:44:22.520 --> 0:44:24.239 Do you say cel tickets like if they book you 0:44:24.280 --> 0:44:25.959 to a club, like no one's showing up. 0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:26.919 No one. 0:44:27.080 --> 0:44:29.680 Yeah, but you know I'm not getting door deals, okay, 0:44:29.680 --> 0:44:32.200 you know, I'm getting flat rates to do headlining on 0:44:32.320 --> 0:44:35.239 weeks where they you know, don't have somebody there that's gonna. 0:44:35.000 --> 0:44:36.280 You know, sell tickets. 0:44:36.760 --> 0:44:38.319 And you know, after the comedy boom in the eighties, 0:44:38.360 --> 0:44:39.680 there were still a lot of the guys around that 0:44:39.760 --> 0:44:41.520 sold tickets. But I never understood how they made so 0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:43.759 much money until you know, I was able to sell 0:44:43.800 --> 0:44:45.360 tickets and get door deals. 0:44:45.400 --> 0:44:47.400 It was very naive about the business. 0:44:47.480 --> 0:44:49.399 Can you explain a door deal for everyone that doesn't 0:44:49.440 --> 0:44:50.040 know what it is? 0:44:50.480 --> 0:44:53.480 Well, door deals where you you know, you are confident 0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:55.480 that you'll sell out and you do a deal with 0:44:55.560 --> 0:44:57.520 the club where you get eighty percent of the door 0:44:57.640 --> 0:45:00.239 versus a bonus or whatever, and you know they can 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:03.960 you sell drinks, but which is really the business they're in. 0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:06.200 So if you're doing four shows at a club that 0:45:06.280 --> 0:45:08.560 sell out, you know, for whatever amount of money the 0:45:08.600 --> 0:45:11.359 ticket is, and you're getting eighty percent. That's different than 0:45:11.440 --> 0:45:13.480 you know, getting twelve hundred for five shows. 0:45:13.560 --> 0:45:14.720 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:45:14.760 --> 0:45:16.600 So you know, once you get to a certain level, 0:45:16.640 --> 0:45:19.040 you can do these door deal structures and make real 0:45:19.080 --> 0:45:22.120 money in nightclubs if you sell out. 0:45:22.440 --> 0:45:23.640 Yeah. But I wasn't that guy. 0:45:24.120 --> 0:45:26.640 But I was doing comedy all the time, okay, And 0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:28.799 also like I did little parts and movies here and there. 0:45:28.840 --> 0:45:30.600 I did, you know, I was in almost famous for 0:45:30.640 --> 0:45:32.239 a minute, and you know I was trying. 0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:32.560 To do that work. 0:45:32.600 --> 0:45:35.800 But I never really had an agent for movies and TV. 0:45:36.440 --> 0:45:37.800 You know, I had you know, there were agents that 0:45:37.880 --> 0:45:40.880 did favors for my manager, but I never really committed 0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:43.000 to acting because it's like. 0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:45.000 Roland, I can't take that kind of rejection. 0:45:45.200 --> 0:45:47.520 Are you kidding me? It's sit in those audition rooms. 0:45:47.520 --> 0:45:50.160 Are you kidding me? There's no way that it just 0:45:50.280 --> 0:45:52.080 was not. I wanted to do it, but there's no 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:54.120 way that I could handle all that. 0:45:54.239 --> 0:45:56.200 So when you get when I see you on TV, now, 0:45:56.360 --> 0:45:57.320 is it just like, hey. 0:45:57.239 --> 0:45:59.160 We want Mark to do sometimes? Yeah? 0:45:59.280 --> 0:46:00.920 Or do you ever auditioned now? 0:46:01.040 --> 0:46:02.360 Well? No, I auditioned for Glow. 0:46:03.239 --> 0:46:05.120 I sent the tape, I mean I did a video 0:46:05.760 --> 0:46:07.920 and they picked me, but like I have some profile, 0:46:08.280 --> 0:46:10.680 like people know, well, that's we'll get to that. So 0:46:10.800 --> 0:46:14.160 two thousand and four, you know, I'm not making a 0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:17.960 living really that well at comedy. You know, I don't, 0:46:18.000 --> 0:46:21.640 you know, I can't. It's just very tentative. I bought 0:46:21.640 --> 0:46:25.200 a house in Highland Park. I was with the woman, 0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:28.200 and then I get offered this radio job for Air 0:46:28.239 --> 0:46:31.080 America Radio, the lefty talk radio network. 0:46:31.320 --> 0:46:33.480 And this was, you know, in response to. 0:46:35.520 --> 0:46:39.120 You know, what was going to be the second term 0:46:39.320 --> 0:46:43.560 for you know, George Bush Junior w the you know, 0:46:43.600 --> 0:46:45.880 Al Frank and a bunch of people is Wednesday, and 0:46:45.960 --> 0:46:48.720 you know, they wanted me to be on this network 0:46:48.719 --> 0:46:51.680 out of New York and be on a morning show. 0:46:52.080 --> 0:46:53.360 And I'd never really done radio. 0:46:53.680 --> 0:46:54.160 Yeah. 0:46:54.200 --> 0:46:58.040 So this was really the sort of kind of cosmic 0:46:59.040 --> 0:47:05.000 choice that led to what became my future. And it 0:47:05.080 --> 0:47:07.399 was that I got offered this job and it would 0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:09.759 have been hard, Like I was in LA I would 0:47:09.800 --> 0:47:10.719 have to move to New York. 0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:12.800 I had kept the apartment there, which. 0:47:12.600 --> 0:47:13.600 Was good, oh the whole time. 0:47:13.880 --> 0:47:18.799 Yeah, sublet it okay in Queens, and you know, I was, 0:47:19.000 --> 0:47:20.640 you know, I was with this woman, and it was 0:47:20.719 --> 0:47:23.840 a difficult relationship because you know, when you get sober. 0:47:23.480 --> 0:47:25.560 With somebody, you know, you're out of your mind. 0:47:25.640 --> 0:47:28.279 And you know, she was, you know, younger than me, 0:47:28.360 --> 0:47:32.680 and it was just a volatile, you know, relationship. But 0:47:32.719 --> 0:47:34.799 I didn't see any choice but to take the gig 0:47:34.840 --> 0:47:38.400 because the money was like solid, it was crazy. It 0:47:38.400 --> 0:47:40.359 was almost like TV money because they had a lot 0:47:40.400 --> 0:47:43.799 of money. So but it would be me going back 0:47:43.840 --> 0:47:46.840 to New York, you know, to do morning radio and 0:47:46.880 --> 0:47:48.799 it was political talk radio and we had a crunch 0:47:48.840 --> 0:47:50.200 a lot of news. It was like getting up at 0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:52.840 three in the morning to get to the studio to 0:47:52.880 --> 0:47:55.279 be on the air at six from six to nine 0:47:56.160 --> 0:47:59.040 every day. And I didn't really know what that would 0:47:59.040 --> 0:48:02.080 be like or whatever, but I did it. I flew back, 0:48:02.239 --> 0:48:04.719 and obviously we pushed strain on my marriage, but I 0:48:04.760 --> 0:48:06.320 was getting up and we were doing a lot of 0:48:06.400 --> 0:48:07.160 comedy bits. 0:48:07.480 --> 0:48:07.640 You know. 0:48:07.719 --> 0:48:10.759 It began with three of us, and then eventually one 0:48:10.800 --> 0:48:13.399 of the people kind of got pushed out. I ended 0:48:13.480 --> 0:48:17.120 up becoming the driver of the show as opposed to 0:48:17.160 --> 0:48:18.480 the comedic sidekick, you know. 0:48:18.520 --> 0:48:19.479 I was sort of the lead. 0:48:20.239 --> 0:48:24.080 And it was it was incredible because it's live, you're 0:48:24.080 --> 0:48:26.719 in it and you know, I was doing my thing, 0:48:26.800 --> 0:48:29.280 telling stories, throwing the com learned how to do radio 0:48:29.800 --> 0:48:30.919 and I did. 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:32.960 That for like a year and a half and you 0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:33.480 loved it. 0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:36.120 I loved it, but you know, it became very difficult 0:48:36.120 --> 0:48:37.680 to do stand up because you're, you know, when you're 0:48:37.719 --> 0:48:39.640 getting up at three in the morning and doing I'm 0:48:39.680 --> 0:48:39.960 going to. 0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:41.520 Say, are you just sleeping during the day, and then 0:48:41.560 --> 0:48:44.360 doing your comedy going straight from comedy to radio. 0:48:44.520 --> 0:48:47.680 Well, I learned how to like get sleep at different times, 0:48:48.120 --> 0:48:49.720 Like you know, I try to get four or five 0:48:50.040 --> 0:48:52.200 hours at night and then go to work and then 0:48:52.239 --> 0:48:54.319 get a nap in during the day and try to 0:48:54.360 --> 0:48:56.400 do a set or two and I do sets on weekends. 0:48:56.480 --> 0:48:58.880 But you're always fucked up when you do morning radio. 0:48:59.000 --> 0:49:01.319 You like walking around like you've been in a pillow fight. 0:49:01.400 --> 0:49:04.000 You're just like it's fuzzy and like, you know, you 0:49:04.080 --> 0:49:07.680 can't quite you know, like reality it was. 0:49:07.719 --> 0:49:09.920 It was fucked up. It's like you feel kind of 0:49:09.960 --> 0:49:10.840 sick all the time. 0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:13.200 But I did it for a year and a half, 0:49:13.239 --> 0:49:16.239 and you know, it strained the marriage, and then I, 0:49:16.320 --> 0:49:18.520 you know, I got fired from Air America because they 0:49:18.560 --> 0:49:20.920 were going in a different direction. That's a whole other story. 0:49:21.040 --> 0:49:24.399 That network and what happened there. It's crazy. But they 0:49:24.400 --> 0:49:28.680 pushed us out and I came back to LA and 0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:30.440 they were going to you know, someone was going to 0:49:30.640 --> 0:49:32.440 try to get me an evening show, which they did 0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:32.799 for a while. 0:49:32.800 --> 0:49:36.839 But I get back and you know, my wife leaves me. 0:49:37.400 --> 0:49:40.319 Like I went out and did some shows on the 0:49:40.400 --> 0:49:43.000 road with Henry Rollins and Jenia Groothel. I came back 0:49:43.000 --> 0:49:44.239 with my wife, so like, you know, I want a 0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:47.959 trial separation, and I think she'd start up with another dude, 0:49:48.080 --> 0:49:48.680 and you know. 0:49:48.719 --> 0:49:50.480 I was like, oh no, you know, I couldn't even 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:50.960 fathom it. 0:49:51.040 --> 0:49:54.000 So she leaves, and you know, trial separation is not 0:49:54.040 --> 0:49:56.759 really a trial separation. So I was doing everything I 0:49:56.800 --> 0:49:59.080 could to make myself better, to go to you know, 0:49:59.200 --> 0:50:02.200 anger management all this shit. But she was out and 0:50:02.239 --> 0:50:06.080 that fucking leveled me. That like talk about hitting a 0:50:06.120 --> 0:50:09.680 bottom in sobriety. So here I am, I'm off you know, 0:50:09.800 --> 0:50:14.160 the radio. She leaves me and just hires these lawyers. 0:50:14.160 --> 0:50:15.719 I don't even we don't even have kids, but she 0:50:15.880 --> 0:50:19.719 just thought that she deserved the house and it was 0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:22.760 in my name, and like she just like the lawyers 0:50:22.840 --> 0:50:26.279 just put me through hell and just basically almost bankrupted me. 0:50:27.040 --> 0:50:30.520 And and then the whole time you're stay. 0:50:31.080 --> 0:50:34.960 Yeah, I did stay sober, and you know, comedy was 0:50:35.000 --> 0:50:36.120 here and there, and. 0:50:36.080 --> 0:50:40.720 Like did you end up keeping the house? 0:50:41.360 --> 0:50:42.560 Yeah? 0:50:42.840 --> 0:50:49.000 But I didn't really understand what divorce was when you 0:50:49.040 --> 0:50:50.920 have money because I'd made money with the radio thing, 0:50:51.160 --> 0:50:56.600 unshaved it and and she just. 0:50:58.560 --> 0:51:00.920 Was killing me there. 0:51:01.200 --> 0:51:02.799 You know, you have to do that whole thing where 0:51:02.800 --> 0:51:07.280 you what do you call it that process to disclosure process? 0:51:08.840 --> 0:51:11.760 Did you like disclose all your money that assets the homes? 0:51:11.920 --> 0:51:12.080 Right? 0:51:12.080 --> 0:51:15.960 But it's a it's a racket because divorces don't end 0:51:16.000 --> 0:51:20.919 until somebody gives up unless it's like, you know, it's 0:51:21.040 --> 0:51:25.040 a state where you just split it, right, which California is. 0:51:25.640 --> 0:51:27.040 But there's all these whoopholes. 0:51:27.560 --> 0:51:31.080 And she hired a real animal to come after me, 0:51:31.200 --> 0:51:33.600 and I hired this little scrappy lawyer that a friend. 0:51:33.440 --> 0:51:33.960 Of mine, knude. 0:51:35.719 --> 0:51:39.200 But whoever, it's all right, whoever got the money, they're 0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:41.680 going to finance everything. You're going to pay for their lawyer, 0:51:42.880 --> 0:51:46.239 You're going to pay you know whatever, Like was. 0:51:46.239 --> 0:51:47.920 She making any money at the time or were you not? 0:51:47.960 --> 0:51:50.960 Really she's doing comedy and doing this and that, and 0:51:51.040 --> 0:51:52.680 she used to be a model, but like she wasn't 0:51:52.680 --> 0:51:55.040 really making any money, and that was fine. 0:51:55.040 --> 0:52:00.000 I didn't mind, you know, uh, you know, supporting the situation. 0:52:00.760 --> 0:52:03.080 I helped her produce a one person show and she 0:52:03.120 --> 0:52:06.440 eventually wrote a book. But the deal was is it 0:52:06.480 --> 0:52:11.240 got very heated and bad, and it really broke my spirit, 0:52:11.480 --> 0:52:15.120 like entirely, Like I was heartbroken, and I couldn't understand 0:52:15.440 --> 0:52:18.440 why we couldn't do it fairly. And you know, in retrospect, 0:52:18.440 --> 0:52:20.600 she just had her mind on the house. She thought 0:52:20.880 --> 0:52:22.960 that she deserved the house. She made it a house, 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:26.400 and in retrospect, I think she was right, and I 0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:28.680 could if I had understood things better, because I thought, like, 0:52:28.719 --> 0:52:29.560 you get half, I get half. 0:52:29.600 --> 0:52:30.520 That should be enough, right. 0:52:30.560 --> 0:52:33.000 But her lawyer then there like I didn't know about 0:52:33.000 --> 0:52:35.880 spousal support. I didn't know about like you know, that 0:52:35.920 --> 0:52:38.120 whole thing. And then her lawyer was trying to get 0:52:38.120 --> 0:52:40.839 the spousal support number up to where it wasn't it 0:52:40.920 --> 0:52:43.759 usually is about the last year of marriage, what you made. 0:52:43.920 --> 0:52:46.520 But her lawyer was like, because of my job, they 0:52:46.520 --> 0:52:48.920 wanted to make it, you know, ark over five years, 0:52:49.000 --> 0:52:51.080 you know, including their America years, which would have mean 0:52:51.239 --> 0:52:54.080 I would have been into her for like like eight 0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:57.239 nine thousand a month, which I didn't have, and we 0:52:57.320 --> 0:52:58.800 ended up in court for no reason. 0:52:58.840 --> 0:53:01.320 And that's it was a nightmare. 0:53:02.520 --> 0:53:04.520 But so I'm broke and I'm about to lose the 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:08.280 house because I'm trying to, you know, win this divorce 0:53:08.400 --> 0:53:09.520 or at least make it fair. 0:53:09.600 --> 0:53:11.960 But you know, all my money's paying for a lawyer. 0:53:12.080 --> 0:53:14.240 It's paying for her lawyer. It's all my money. 0:53:16.120 --> 0:53:20.560 And then like what happened was air America kind of 0:53:20.719 --> 0:53:23.640 resurfaced and there was somebody within a America that was like, 0:53:23.719 --> 0:53:25.759 you know, we want to try a streaming video show, 0:53:25.800 --> 0:53:29.200 which is before streaming. It was like before anybody the 0:53:29.239 --> 0:53:33.080 technology wasn't there. And I'm like, I don't care what 0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:35.960 it is. If you can give me what I was 0:53:36.000 --> 0:53:39.319 making before and give me like sixty K upfront so 0:53:39.360 --> 0:53:41.399 I can give it to this woman and stop this shit, 0:53:42.160 --> 0:53:45.520 I'll take the job. And they were like okay, So 0:53:45.560 --> 0:53:47.480 they gave me sixty K and I gave it to 0:53:47.640 --> 0:53:51.320 her and I'm like we done, and she's like okay, yeah, 0:53:51.360 --> 0:53:53.880 we're done. And then I got back on my feet 0:53:54.120 --> 0:53:59.279 and that streaming job that nobody watched break Room Live 0:53:59.400 --> 0:54:01.920 that last year, and I was barely able to function 0:54:01.960 --> 0:54:05.239 because I was so shattered from the divorce. But you know, 0:54:05.239 --> 0:54:06.520 it got me back on my feet. And then I 0:54:06.560 --> 0:54:09.680 got back to LA and this was two thousand and 0:54:09.719 --> 0:54:14.880 what eight, and I'm like, you know, just barely solvent, 0:54:15.719 --> 0:54:17.840 and I didn't know how to Like I still wasn't 0:54:17.920 --> 0:54:20.080 a big comic, and I didn't know what I was 0:54:20.080 --> 0:54:23.000 going to do, and I was pretty depressed, and I 0:54:23.040 --> 0:54:26.400 didn't I had no idea, you know, what we're going 0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:30.120 to do. But I actually had happened a little before that, 0:54:30.280 --> 0:54:33.439 like when they fired us at Air America, they didn't 0:54:33.520 --> 0:54:35.000 kick us out of the building because I had three 0:54:35.000 --> 0:54:37.040 months on my contract. So me and my producer were like, 0:54:37.080 --> 0:54:41.120 there were people doing podcasts, basically just Corolla and like 0:54:41.400 --> 0:54:43.880 Doug maybe Doug Benson and a few others, but it 0:54:43.920 --> 0:54:46.600 wasn't a thing I said, can we figure this out? 0:54:47.360 --> 0:54:50.080 So at the beginning, you know, we were just like 0:54:50.200 --> 0:54:53.399 going into the studio at Air America after hours because 0:54:53.400 --> 0:54:55.880 we knew the tech, we'd let guests and you know, 0:54:55.960 --> 0:54:58.160 on the freight elevator. And so we did the first 0:54:58.360 --> 0:55:02.520 dozen or so like that wow in secret and we 0:55:02.719 --> 0:55:05.560 you know, Apple was looking for people who had some 0:55:05.640 --> 0:55:09.160 kind of profile and they got behind it. So there 0:55:09.200 --> 0:55:10.960 was some banners, and you know, I had to figure 0:55:10.960 --> 0:55:13.000 out how to get more Twitter followers and like this 0:55:13.080 --> 0:55:16.320 was all happening. That's why we were there at the beginning. 0:55:16.400 --> 0:55:18.240 So I had to figure out how to get Twitter 0:55:18.280 --> 0:55:19.480 followers and how to get attention. 0:55:20.040 --> 0:55:20.800 So I was booking. 0:55:20.920 --> 0:55:23.200 You know, it wasn't the show that it is now, 0:55:23.760 --> 0:55:25.359 but guests would come on and some of them would 0:55:25.360 --> 0:55:27.200 get press, and then it started to sort of build 0:55:27.280 --> 0:55:30.640 like that. And then I got back out to LA 0:55:30.760 --> 0:55:32.080 and I'm like, well, what are we going to do? 0:55:32.200 --> 0:55:34.200 I got to figure out how to do it here. 0:55:34.239 --> 0:55:36.239 So I reached out to Jesse Thorn, who was a 0:55:36.800 --> 0:55:41.440 pretty early adapter to podcasting. He was a radio gut too, 0:55:41.480 --> 0:55:43.399 and he told me which MIC's to get and how 0:55:43.400 --> 0:55:45.600 to hook him up. And I stole a mixer from 0:55:45.640 --> 0:55:48.920 Air America, like this little blue mixer, you know, and 0:55:49.360 --> 0:55:51.120 I set that up in my garage and I was 0:55:51.400 --> 0:55:53.960 running the mics through the mixer right into my laptop 0:55:54.480 --> 0:55:56.839 and I just had and the garage wasn't even a thing, 0:55:56.840 --> 0:56:00.400 which is literally garbage in there and a table, and 0:56:00.440 --> 0:56:04.200 I started talking to comics. So the whole beginning of 0:56:04.239 --> 0:56:07.759 the show is me basically bringing people in, you know, 0:56:07.880 --> 0:56:11.040 to you know, apologize for being an asshole. 0:56:11.960 --> 0:56:12.280 Wow. 0:56:12.600 --> 0:56:14.920 So the entire style of what I do is based 0:56:14.960 --> 0:56:32.319 on me having people over to talk about me. And 0:56:32.400 --> 0:56:34.719 at first there was like a third act but me 0:56:34.800 --> 0:56:37.040 and my producer Brenda McDonald, who is a brilliant guy 0:56:37.200 --> 0:56:39.600 and still with me, and he had to do the 0:56:39.640 --> 0:56:41.680 show on the SI for years because he had another 0:56:41.760 --> 0:56:44.000 job where he made money. We couldn't make money at 0:56:44.000 --> 0:56:46.319 the beginning. We had we had to put together like 0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:50.440 a donor thing. This is before Patreon. There was no Patreon, 0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:53.160 There was no Patreon, So we had to set up like, 0:56:53.200 --> 0:56:56.480 you know, if people like our show, you know, you know, 0:56:56.160 --> 0:56:59.760 if you give us this monthly payment of like ten five, 0:57:00.320 --> 0:57:02.719 twenty five, we'll send you some T shirts or whatever. 0:57:02.719 --> 0:57:05.200 So I was in my house with five hundred envelopes. 0:57:05.480 --> 0:57:07.360 I had a roommate at the time because I couldn't 0:57:07.360 --> 0:57:11.080 really at my own house. We're stuff in envelopes and 0:57:11.080 --> 0:57:13.000 we're trying to get this thing, trying to get like 0:57:13.320 --> 0:57:16.520 some income coming in and it was all pretty crazy. 0:57:17.160 --> 0:57:20.080 Then we started doing live ones. We created a pay site. 0:57:20.160 --> 0:57:22.200 We thought, well maybe if we do live ones and 0:57:22.200 --> 0:57:24.400 then offer them for sale, So we were doing that. 0:57:24.440 --> 0:57:26.600 There was no way to make money in podcasts. Yeah, 0:57:26.680 --> 0:57:28.880 if you wanted to keep building your audience. Yeah, because 0:57:28.880 --> 0:57:30.960 if you put a paywall up, then that's a real gamble. 0:57:30.960 --> 0:57:33.280 How are you going to get new peoplewall? 0:57:33.400 --> 0:57:35.640 Well you could do, you know, in order to listen 0:57:35.640 --> 0:57:36.240 to the whole show. 0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:39.440 Okay, yeah, but there was only a handful of podcasters. 0:57:40.640 --> 0:57:43.920 So what happens is, you know, I'm doing in my garage, 0:57:44.040 --> 0:57:45.640 and there used to be a third act, which was 0:57:45.680 --> 0:57:48.440 a comedy act, and then it became just me talking 0:57:48.480 --> 0:57:49.720 up front and then doing guests. 0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:51.080 We had one or two sponsors. 0:57:51.120 --> 0:57:53.880 It was like, you know, Adam and Eve Sex Toys 0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:56.160 and this coffee sponsor out of Wisconsin. 0:57:56.200 --> 0:57:57.520 And how did you get the sponsors? 0:57:57.800 --> 0:57:59.760 Well, I don't know at that time, I don't remember 0:57:59.800 --> 0:58:02.080 how we got those first two. The coffee sponsor was 0:58:02.120 --> 0:58:04.520 somebody who sponsored were the only sponsors for my streaming 0:58:04.560 --> 0:58:06.920 show that nobody watched, So I just carried them over 0:58:06.960 --> 0:58:09.160 as a favor. They weren't paying me hardly anything. But 0:58:09.200 --> 0:58:11.520 they were sending me free coffee. Then Adam and Eve 0:58:11.920 --> 0:58:13.880 had done a few podcasts. They were also I think 0:58:13.960 --> 0:58:15.920 a radio advertiser. There was a time at the beginning 0:58:15.960 --> 0:58:19.360 where when it started to happen podcasts, like radio ad 0:58:19.440 --> 0:58:22.760 consultants were selling the podcasts. So we had audible sex toys, 0:58:22.760 --> 0:58:24.720 Adam and Eve. We had the coffee sponsor. But that 0:58:24.840 --> 0:58:27.360 was really it, and it wasn't enough to make it real, 0:58:27.520 --> 0:58:29.640 you know, kitting and the numbers were what they were, 0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:31.600 and no one knew about podcasts. 0:58:32.200 --> 0:58:34.120 So there was just a small crew of us, and 0:58:34.160 --> 0:58:35.920 we were all sort of in touch, you know. 0:58:36.080 --> 0:58:38.760 Rogan came a little after me, the nerdous Chris hardwickers 0:58:38.800 --> 0:58:44.120 around Corolla. Jay Moore had a show, Jimmy Pardo, Kevin 0:58:44.200 --> 0:58:48.680 Smith had his network at the time, Jimmy Dore. There 0:58:48.760 --> 0:58:51.040 was like a handful of cats who were like, you know, 0:58:51.360 --> 0:58:54.200 chipping away at it. And then it kind of like, 0:58:54.280 --> 0:58:56.560 you know, I started to get more press for the podcast, 0:58:56.720 --> 0:58:58.680 and you know, because of guests and a lot of 0:58:58.800 --> 0:59:00.240 the kind of entertain. 0:59:01.560 --> 0:59:03.840 Journalism, I was doing their job for them. 0:59:03.960 --> 0:59:06.200 So they'd always refer to what Guess would say on 0:59:06.320 --> 0:59:09.320 my show, and you know, and articles about it, and 0:59:09.360 --> 0:59:11.240 then the profile of the guests started to get bigger. 0:59:11.560 --> 0:59:14.800 Robin Williams, you know, Ben Stiller, Conan, these people were 0:59:14.840 --> 0:59:15.480 coming to my house. 0:59:15.520 --> 0:59:17.640 But that's what I was gonna I wanted to know, like, 0:59:17.840 --> 0:59:20.840 these people are coming to your house, like yeah, and 0:59:21.520 --> 0:59:24.080 you were just like, this is it like Barack Obama 0:59:24.200 --> 0:59:25.280 sitting in your garage? 0:59:25.400 --> 0:59:27.960 Like by that time, the garage was pretty cool, you. 0:59:27.960 --> 0:59:29.720 Know, like it was like I want to see it 0:59:29.800 --> 0:59:30.120 so bad. 0:59:30.280 --> 0:59:33.040 Okay, well that one that garage is gone. I'm in 0:59:33.120 --> 0:59:34.240 a new place, okay. 0:59:35.240 --> 0:59:37.560 But it was full of my whole life books, you know, 0:59:37.800 --> 0:59:41.360 art things, guitar like it was this beautiful like, you know, 0:59:41.520 --> 0:59:43.640 kind of like it was. I wouldn't call it a 0:59:43.760 --> 0:59:46.520 man cave, but it looked more like like a library 0:59:46.640 --> 0:59:49.640 in a museum. It was crazy by that point. But 0:59:49.680 --> 0:59:52.800 at the beginning, Brendan and I our only commitment was, 0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:54.800 you know, we're going to do a new show every 0:59:54.840 --> 0:59:57.520 Monday and Thursday, no matter what. And we've done that 0:59:58.200 --> 1:00:02.840 since two thousand and nine. Wow, and uh, you know, 1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:05.640 it's been crazy. So it started to build up steam, 1:00:05.680 --> 1:00:07.960 and then podcasts started to get more attention, and then 1:00:08.000 --> 1:00:09.960 more people started getting into it, and then you know, 1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:12.920 networks were starting, and then a guy Jeff Ulrich created 1:00:12.960 --> 1:00:18.280 a a advertising interface that would link advertisers with podcasts. 1:00:18.680 --> 1:00:20.520 So some of the you know, and then the radio 1:00:20.640 --> 1:00:23.240 people who were kind of glimbing on podcasts, they kind 1:00:23.280 --> 1:00:24.680 of fell back a little bit. 1:00:24.760 --> 1:00:26.560 And then all of a sudden, you know, there was 1:00:26.640 --> 1:00:28.640 a real game to it, you know, and then there. 1:00:28.680 --> 1:00:32.400 Was became a little higher profile, and we all were 1:00:32.520 --> 1:00:35.320 kind of a community at the beginning, and then it 1:00:35.480 --> 1:00:37.000 just kind of now, look at it. 1:00:37.160 --> 1:00:39.520 You know, we were there. You know, people say like, 1:00:39.600 --> 1:00:41.480 look what you did. I'm like, it's good and bad. 1:00:41.560 --> 1:00:43.360 I guess you know, why did you say bad? 1:00:44.240 --> 1:00:46.600 Well, it became like this thing. It became sort of 1:00:47.040 --> 1:00:47.880 like anything else. 1:00:47.920 --> 1:00:50.320 So like everybody thought, you know, I really think that 1:00:50.400 --> 1:00:52.440 I enabled people to think like, oh that guy could 1:00:52.480 --> 1:00:52.640 do it. 1:00:52.720 --> 1:00:54.880 I could do it. Yeah, you know, and and then 1:00:54.920 --> 1:00:55.400 it came it. 1:00:55.440 --> 1:00:57.800 Became very glutted and everybody who was trying them and 1:00:57.840 --> 1:01:00.000 then you know, people would last a week or two weeks, 1:01:00.240 --> 1:01:02.280 and then then there was like you know, kind of 1:01:03.400 --> 1:01:07.600 predatory uh kind of what do you trade shows where 1:01:07.640 --> 1:01:10.360 they you know, they asked me to speak at one. 1:01:10.360 --> 1:01:11.840 I didn't really wasn't realize what it was. 1:01:11.920 --> 1:01:14.560 But it was a radio consultant who realized that podcasting 1:01:14.680 --> 1:01:16.320 was a racket and they could convince a bunch of 1:01:16.360 --> 1:01:18.560 people that they could sell him the equipment, they could 1:01:18.560 --> 1:01:20.360 show me how to do that. So like they kind 1:01:20.360 --> 1:01:23.400 of bring people in in almost like a motivational speaker way, 1:01:23.480 --> 1:01:24.360 like anybody can. 1:01:24.320 --> 1:01:26.920 Do this, get in it, you know, and it kind 1:01:26.960 --> 1:01:28.760 of it kind of blew up. I mean no, in 1:01:28.880 --> 1:01:30.840 a bad way in that like eventually. 1:01:32.160 --> 1:01:34.080 Brendan and I, because of what we do and how 1:01:34.120 --> 1:01:38.000 we do it, are very kind of you know, we're workaholics, 1:01:38.080 --> 1:01:41.360 and he's very sort of specific about how he does audio. 1:01:41.520 --> 1:01:45.480 He's an audio producer and we're still only audio and 1:01:46.040 --> 1:01:47.400 that was what we set out to do. And he 1:01:47.440 --> 1:01:48.720 spends a lot of time doing what he does. 1:01:48.800 --> 1:01:49.440 I do what I do. 1:01:50.280 --> 1:01:54.400 But as the businessess kind of grew, it's only a 1:01:54.440 --> 1:01:56.840 bad thing in that, you know, everyone has a podcast. 1:01:56.920 --> 1:01:57.720 It's like a joke. 1:01:58.000 --> 1:02:01.360 Yeah, and you know, and then the bigger enterprises. 1:02:00.840 --> 1:02:05.240 Got involved and now you know there's yeah, you know, Amazon, 1:02:05.760 --> 1:02:08.480 you know, Spotify, all these It just became this huge 1:02:08.600 --> 1:02:12.440 business where before it was just, you know, pretty scrappy. 1:02:12.640 --> 1:02:16.320 Yeah, and I think people, you know, yeah, people really 1:02:16.480 --> 1:02:19.440 like this, even if you look at social media, like 1:02:19.480 --> 1:02:23.000 I've talked to influencers, like, I think people or the 1:02:23.080 --> 1:02:27.480 audience really liked the scrappy underground versus the commercialized. And 1:02:27.560 --> 1:02:31.439 I could see what you're saying with podcasts becoming so commercialized. 1:02:31.520 --> 1:02:31.760 Yeah. 1:02:31.840 --> 1:02:34.200 But even also like when you see someone like yourself 1:02:34.320 --> 1:02:37.400 of me being a new podcaster, it's like I have 1:02:37.560 --> 1:02:40.160 to be reminded continually all the time, like do you 1:02:40.240 --> 1:02:42.720 know how long this person has been doing this? Like 1:02:43.280 --> 1:02:47.280 I was with the president of iHeart Radio and he 1:02:47.480 --> 1:02:49.640 was like, my number one podcast has been around for 1:02:49.800 --> 1:02:52.400 like thirty years, Colleen, And I'm like what He's like, 1:02:52.840 --> 1:02:55.960 remember this always it's gonna take a long time. And 1:02:56.080 --> 1:02:59.440 I like that you talk about it because in our 1:02:59.560 --> 1:03:02.640 ages like, oh, you could become a famous person, you 1:03:02.680 --> 1:03:04.840 could have a lot of money overnight, and it's really 1:03:04.960 --> 1:03:06.200 just a marketing gimmick. 1:03:06.320 --> 1:03:08.480 But the reality is it took work. 1:03:09.880 --> 1:03:11.560 And also it was never like that for me. I 1:03:11.760 --> 1:03:13.480 don't know how these people do it now. 1:03:13.880 --> 1:03:17.320 I can't live in that world. In terms of being 1:03:19.440 --> 1:03:22.320 a content provider looking for clips you know, and playing 1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:24.600 that game where you're just like these guys who are 1:03:24.680 --> 1:03:28.360 just dumping stuff three four times a day, trying to build, 1:03:28.880 --> 1:03:31.680 you know, an empire based on you know, whatever it 1:03:31.800 --> 1:03:32.760 is their racket is. 1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:34.680 You know, I get all that, but we're kind of 1:03:34.720 --> 1:03:36.240 at school and that. 1:03:38.080 --> 1:03:40.040 Yeah, we've been doing it a long time, but we 1:03:40.160 --> 1:03:43.120 were fortunate in that my cosmic timing and my particular 1:03:43.200 --> 1:03:47.240 skill set, you know, enabled me to seize this moment 1:03:47.320 --> 1:03:49.160 without having any real plan in place. 1:03:49.360 --> 1:03:51.600 There was no way to make money at the beginning. 1:03:51.880 --> 1:03:54.320 Yeah, this just wasn't It seems like all of your 1:03:54.880 --> 1:03:59.360 choices though never from what I understand outside of the 1:03:59.440 --> 1:04:04.160 divorce situation, never really Money wasn't really a driving motivator 1:04:04.240 --> 1:04:04.400 for you. 1:04:04.560 --> 1:04:06.200 It seems like you're no, like it was. 1:04:06.320 --> 1:04:06.680 Yeah, it was. 1:04:06.920 --> 1:04:08.880 I don't know what it was, but it was a 1:04:09.040 --> 1:04:12.040 sort of persistence and passion to do stand ups. So like, 1:04:12.160 --> 1:04:14.360 and I've had to deal with that too, Like I 1:04:14.520 --> 1:04:16.560 was an established stand up when I started the podcast, 1:04:16.600 --> 1:04:19.680 and now this podcast blows up and nobody really knows 1:04:19.760 --> 1:04:22.040 me as a stand up, And so we get people 1:04:22.080 --> 1:04:23.760 coming to the shows like we're here to support you. 1:04:23.800 --> 1:04:27.440 And I'm like, I know how to do this. You know, 1:04:27.520 --> 1:04:31.280 I'm glad you're here exactly right, right. So I had 1:04:31.280 --> 1:04:31.840 a real hard. 1:04:31.720 --> 1:04:34.000 Time with that being known as an interviewer versus a 1:04:34.040 --> 1:04:35.600 stand up, because I always want to be a stand up. 1:04:35.720 --> 1:04:38.080 Yeah, so that was like a dicey. 1:04:38.720 --> 1:04:41.560 It was hard for me in my brain to realize 1:04:41.560 --> 1:04:45.760 that I was becoming this interview guy or this conversation guy, 1:04:45.800 --> 1:04:48.520 which was great because you know, no one really does 1:04:48.600 --> 1:04:51.600 it like me, and I was developing something and now 1:04:51.640 --> 1:04:55.200 it's kind of established. But at the beginning, I'm like, 1:04:55.280 --> 1:04:57.960 I'm a comic. I'm just doing this, you know, because 1:04:58.000 --> 1:04:59.840 this is what you know. It's working out, you know, 1:05:00.520 --> 1:05:03.120 but I love it. I mean, I you know, it's 1:05:03.160 --> 1:05:06.200 also good for recovery in a way, you know, like 1:05:06.280 --> 1:05:09.600 the whole premise of of AA was one alcoholic talking 1:05:09.680 --> 1:05:12.080 to another to get you out of your head. So, like, 1:05:12.360 --> 1:05:14.960 you know, interviewing people is a big part of my 1:05:15.040 --> 1:05:18.760 social life is having these conversations. Yeah, with these people 1:05:18.800 --> 1:05:21.000 who I don't know, and they're fairly intimate and kind 1:05:21.040 --> 1:05:23.200 of very focused, and you know, I'm kind of all 1:05:23.280 --> 1:05:26.080 in and I'm just as nervous and anxious about doing 1:05:26.120 --> 1:05:28.560 them as I always was you know, this is like whatever, 1:05:28.640 --> 1:05:30.200 thirteen years in or however long. 1:05:30.800 --> 1:05:33.760 But I think that the timing of it was fortuitous 1:05:33.880 --> 1:05:38.080 and that you know, the business grew around us. 1:05:38.400 --> 1:05:40.840 There was a core community of podcasters and we all 1:05:40.960 --> 1:05:43.960 evolved together and we took you know, we you know, 1:05:44.040 --> 1:05:47.400 there was an issue with a patent troll that was 1:05:47.440 --> 1:05:49.880 a very complicated thing, that was a threat to podcasting, 1:05:49.960 --> 1:05:51.800 and we you know, I remember, we had a big 1:05:51.880 --> 1:05:54.680 meeting about how to deal with it. So once the 1:05:54.760 --> 1:05:57.600 business started to expand and everyone found their footing, it 1:05:57.680 --> 1:06:00.320 all happened simultaneously. You know, I was there at the 1:06:00.400 --> 1:06:03.040 beginning of I guess what would be modern podcasting. There 1:06:03.040 --> 1:06:06.040 were a few before it was kind of a thing, 1:06:06.120 --> 1:06:08.560 but it wasn't you know, a cultural phenomenon. 1:06:09.120 --> 1:06:10.200 So I came up with it. 1:06:10.320 --> 1:06:11.840 It built it, you know, I was one of the 1:06:13.240 --> 1:06:15.240 you know, I don't know if OG is you know, 1:06:15.280 --> 1:06:16.960 I don't want to take any real credit, but I 1:06:17.680 --> 1:06:21.960 found the the conversation space at that time. In the 1:06:22.040 --> 1:06:24.720 way I did it was unique, so and it became 1:06:24.880 --> 1:06:27.760 kind of one of the pillars of modern podcasting. And 1:06:27.960 --> 1:06:32.200 I don't mind saying that, but it was all coincidental, 1:06:32.720 --> 1:06:35.360 but the quality remains, and you know, it really becomes 1:06:35.360 --> 1:06:36.880 about like, well when are we going to stop? 1:06:36.960 --> 1:06:37.240 Dude? 1:06:37.720 --> 1:06:40.000 You know, like, oh yeah, keep going. But I do 1:06:40.200 --> 1:06:40.840 have one question. 1:06:40.920 --> 1:06:44.800 Were there any moments where there was just like almost 1:06:44.880 --> 1:06:48.720 like an aha, or I can't believe that I you know, 1:06:48.880 --> 1:06:51.440 like I like, there are certain interviews where. 1:06:51.280 --> 1:06:54.520 I would be like, holy sh I can't believe this 1:06:54.720 --> 1:06:57.720 is me. You know what were those moments? 1:06:58.640 --> 1:07:03.640 Well, a sitting president was pretty bad. 1:07:03.680 --> 1:07:05.120 Yeah, I was going to say, how did you land that? 1:07:07.120 --> 1:07:09.520 But even before that, you know, because of my business, 1:07:09.560 --> 1:07:12.120 you know, talking to people like you know, Robin Williams 1:07:12.240 --> 1:07:14.560 and people like you know, big actors like and people 1:07:14.560 --> 1:07:15.720 would come to my house and be like, where the 1:07:15.760 --> 1:07:17.920 fuck am I kind of like here, I don't know 1:07:17.960 --> 1:07:20.160 where I am. I don't know how you found the studio. 1:07:21.240 --> 1:07:24.960 But but there were a lot of big performers. I 1:07:25.040 --> 1:07:27.120 was talking to some old guys. Sometimes I'd go to 1:07:27.160 --> 1:07:28.480 people's houses and do it. 1:07:28.560 --> 1:07:30.080 I was like, I'm all in. 1:07:30.480 --> 1:07:32.120 So I talked to a lot of people that I 1:07:32.240 --> 1:07:37.200 thought were pretty impressive. But when when the president became. 1:07:36.960 --> 1:07:39.880 A thing that was crazy. 1:07:40.440 --> 1:07:42.360 I just want to know, like what that day was 1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:44.920 like it was like like I just I want you 1:07:45.040 --> 1:07:47.440 to paint me that picture of even also getting the 1:07:47.560 --> 1:07:48.480 interview that. 1:07:48.560 --> 1:07:49.600 Was like seven years in. 1:07:49.760 --> 1:07:54.200 Well, ultimately what happened was, you know, there was conversation 1:07:55.520 --> 1:07:57.840 earlier on this was it was in his last term, 1:07:57.880 --> 1:08:01.200 and there was some conversation in in the beginning of 1:08:01.240 --> 1:08:03.560 that term that maybe as vice president that Biden might 1:08:03.600 --> 1:08:04.080 want to do it. 1:08:04.200 --> 1:08:06.720 And you know, but we weren't really a political show. 1:08:06.760 --> 1:08:07.240 That's one thing. 1:08:07.320 --> 1:08:09.240 Coming out of political radio, which both me and my 1:08:09.320 --> 1:08:12.480 producer did, we were like, no politics, I'm not going 1:08:12.560 --> 1:08:15.200 to do it. So we detached from it completely and 1:08:15.320 --> 1:08:18.400 became this other show. You know, I've talked politics since 1:08:18.439 --> 1:08:21.879 then because when Trump was president, I'm was profoundly concerned 1:08:22.280 --> 1:08:25.840 and I'm still concerned, but it's difficult. It's primarily not 1:08:26.520 --> 1:08:31.839 that kind of dialogue. But someone in the president's office, 1:08:32.000 --> 1:08:35.320 someone in Obama's crew, thought it would be a good 1:08:35.439 --> 1:08:38.560 thing for him to do the podcast because it was 1:08:38.680 --> 1:08:39.559 his last term. 1:08:40.000 --> 1:08:41.000 It was the last year. 1:08:41.680 --> 1:08:43.320 You know, you don't want to be a lame duck. 1:08:43.360 --> 1:08:45.560 You know, he wanted to be relevant, and you know, 1:08:45.760 --> 1:08:49.200 they reached out and said let's do it, and you know, 1:08:49.320 --> 1:08:53.200 my producer, who's like, you know, a straight shooter, decent guy, 1:08:53.360 --> 1:08:56.680 real political dude. Like it's funny because the date they 1:08:56.800 --> 1:08:59.680 had wanted him to come, I was supposed to be 1:09:00.400 --> 1:09:02.920 on vacation. So I literally told my producer, I'm like, 1:09:02.960 --> 1:09:04.240 I don't know, man, I don't know if if I 1:09:04.240 --> 1:09:07.080 can do it. I'm supposed to be on vacation, freaking. 1:09:08.439 --> 1:09:08.559 Right. 1:09:08.720 --> 1:09:10.640 And then it turns out, like you know, it was 1:09:10.720 --> 1:09:12.800 booked like for the day that I got back, or 1:09:12.840 --> 1:09:15.519 the day or two days after I got back, and. 1:09:15.600 --> 1:09:17.640 I and I remember my producers are telling me, it's like, 1:09:17.760 --> 1:09:18.880 you know, I wouldn't. 1:09:18.520 --> 1:09:22.439 Have let you go, yeah, yeah, out of here. But 1:09:22.560 --> 1:09:23.240 you know, you talk to. 1:09:23.280 --> 1:09:26.240 Famous people enough, and I granted it's the President, but 1:09:27.080 --> 1:09:28.680 you know, people were just people, and you get a 1:09:28.760 --> 1:09:30.680 sense of people. I mean, I've done fifteen hundred of 1:09:30.720 --> 1:09:31.080 these things. 1:09:31.200 --> 1:09:32.800 Yeah have you really? 1:09:33.080 --> 1:09:35.840 Yeah, we're coming up on fifteen hundreds, and you know, 1:09:35.880 --> 1:09:37.559 I've talked to a lot of different kinds of people, 1:09:37.560 --> 1:09:38.519 but the President was a big deal. 1:09:38.560 --> 1:09:40.920 But the trick of it was, look, a lot of things. 1:09:40.840 --> 1:09:44.479 Had to happen for it to happen, but we were 1:09:44.520 --> 1:09:46.959 fairly specific that that It wasn't going to be political 1:09:47.080 --> 1:09:48.600 in the sense that, you know, this is going to 1:09:48.640 --> 1:09:50.440 be what we do. It's going to be a conversation 1:09:50.560 --> 1:09:51.240 about life. 1:09:51.560 --> 1:09:51.760 Yeah. 1:09:52.600 --> 1:09:53.759 So I was down in Hawaii. 1:09:53.800 --> 1:09:55.679 I read his book, and I wasn't really as nervous 1:09:55.920 --> 1:10:00.160 as you would think, you know. But but this my 1:10:00.240 --> 1:10:04.800 producer was brilliant in it all because, you know, he 1:10:04.920 --> 1:10:07.040 had to go out to my house. He lives in Brooklyn, 1:10:07.439 --> 1:10:08.920 So he flew out to the house so the Secret 1:10:08.960 --> 1:10:10.519 Service could do a sweet They had to figure out 1:10:10.520 --> 1:10:11.680 they had to come and figure out how to set 1:10:11.760 --> 1:10:13.840 up a parameter, how to get the president of the 1:10:13.960 --> 1:10:17.280 United States into this little neighborhood, into Highland Park, and. 1:10:17.400 --> 1:10:18.240 How to do it safely. 1:10:19.320 --> 1:10:21.160 So Brendan was there for that, and they were trying 1:10:21.160 --> 1:10:23.160 to figure out where they could put snipers and you know, 1:10:23.280 --> 1:10:28.320 how to make a perimeter, and and you know, the 1:10:28.439 --> 1:10:30.280 roof of the garage was not strong enough to. 1:10:30.240 --> 1:10:30.919 Hold the snipers. 1:10:30.920 --> 1:10:32.640 So we had to ask my neighbor Dennis, if we 1:10:32.680 --> 1:10:34.000 could put snipers on his roof. 1:10:34.240 --> 1:10:34.920 And he was thrilled. 1:10:36.360 --> 1:10:40.600 Yeah, he's retired, he's excited. And then they you know, 1:10:40.680 --> 1:10:44.960 they built they tented my driveway, so the motorcake park 1:10:45.000 --> 1:10:48.160 and they could come up, you know, without any sight 1:10:48.240 --> 1:10:50.400 lines and then walk into the back and come into 1:10:50.400 --> 1:10:54.040 the garage. And they'd set up this like like about 1:10:54.080 --> 1:10:56.879 a week before, they put this box in my spare bedroom, 1:10:57.160 --> 1:10:59.920 which was like hooked up to a special phone line, 1:11:00.320 --> 1:11:04.120 like in case all communications went down, they'd have communications. 1:11:04.520 --> 1:11:06.559 So that thing humming along was that was the most 1:11:06.880 --> 1:11:08.200 menacing part of the whole thing. 1:11:11.080 --> 1:11:14.439 And you know, so day of we'd set up a 1:11:14.520 --> 1:11:19.120 bunch of listening stations on the deck for people, like 1:11:19.200 --> 1:11:20.439 for his people to be out there. 1:11:20.920 --> 1:11:26.519 He didn't. He didn't he didn't uh need a pre interview. 1:11:26.560 --> 1:11:29.120 He didn't. He let us do whatever questions we wanted. 1:11:29.360 --> 1:11:29.679 He didn't. 1:11:30.400 --> 1:11:32.000 He didn't do like restrictions or anything. 1:11:32.200 --> 1:11:36.240 No what's the word I want? There was no screening 1:11:36.720 --> 1:11:37.760 of what we of the question? 1:11:38.560 --> 1:11:39.680 Do you ever let people do that? 1:11:40.640 --> 1:11:43.120 But it's the president, you know, but we we were 1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:46.000 kind of held on line. But like he was a 1:11:47.400 --> 1:11:48.280 intellectual guy. 1:11:48.680 --> 1:11:51.639 He carried himself. He wasn't like, you know, some whack job. 1:11:52.240 --> 1:11:54.719 You know those guys the presidents are pretty well managed, 1:11:55.240 --> 1:11:58.680 especially with press, but you know, Obama was like, you 1:11:58.760 --> 1:12:01.920 know whatever, and it was kind. 1:12:01.800 --> 1:12:03.800 Of intense, you know, because there was a lot of 1:12:03.840 --> 1:12:04.559 people around. 1:12:05.640 --> 1:12:08.760 You know, we're waiting for the president and like, look 1:12:08.880 --> 1:12:11.759 man like he had gone to school at Occidental briefly, 1:12:11.880 --> 1:12:14.040 so there was that connection. But there was also news 1:12:14.080 --> 1:12:17.719 that had broken, like literally within the last within that week, 1:12:18.360 --> 1:12:22.200 that guy shot all those people at that church, all 1:12:22.240 --> 1:12:25.400 those black people got shot by that little lunatic, racist 1:12:25.439 --> 1:12:27.880 white kid, and that was big, big thing. So we 1:12:27.920 --> 1:12:30.160 didn't even know if he was going to come, which 1:12:30.240 --> 1:12:33.400 we would have understood, yeah, but he was going to come. 1:12:34.320 --> 1:12:36.000 So we had to figure out how to talk about that. 1:12:36.160 --> 1:12:38.680 There was some you know, Supreme Court stuff coming down. 1:12:38.720 --> 1:12:42.680 There was a little bit of business that was unfolding 1:12:43.080 --> 1:12:46.720 that we needed to address politically and culturally, but the 1:12:46.800 --> 1:12:48.360 rest was going to be personal. And we had a 1:12:48.400 --> 1:12:50.920 strict we had an hour, so Brendan, you know, he 1:12:51.040 --> 1:12:52.760 had to like we had to figure it out. Usually 1:12:52.840 --> 1:12:54.519 I do, like you you know, I kind of wing it, 1:12:54.800 --> 1:12:56.360 but we had we had a tight hour and there 1:12:56.400 --> 1:12:58.200 was shit we need to get to. So he we 1:12:58.320 --> 1:13:00.920 made a structure so we would get to it. And 1:13:01.000 --> 1:13:02.920 we're all waiting around and you know, me and Brendan, 1:13:02.960 --> 1:13:03.679 I'm in the house. 1:13:03.760 --> 1:13:05.920 You know. Secret Service was funny because they came. 1:13:05.800 --> 1:13:08.120 By earlier with the dogs, the bomb dogs, and I 1:13:08.200 --> 1:13:10.519 got three cats, and I was like, look, man, you 1:13:10.600 --> 1:13:13.839 know I got these cats and they're in the bedroom. 1:13:14.600 --> 1:13:16.240 Is there any way you know, can you trust me 1:13:16.320 --> 1:13:19.559 on the bedroom because I want to die. I want 1:13:19.560 --> 1:13:22.439 the bomb dogs fuck with the cats. Did they Yeah? 1:13:22.760 --> 1:13:29.120 They did. So we're all waiting Secret Services. 1:13:29.160 --> 1:13:32.519 There's like fifteen people about and they're around, and they're 1:13:32.760 --> 1:13:35.400 on the perimeter. The snipers there watching the snipers walk up. 1:13:35.400 --> 1:13:37.559 They had closed off the streets. All the cars were. 1:13:37.520 --> 1:13:38.200 Off the streets. 1:13:38.320 --> 1:13:40.920 Streets well just but you know, they but just my. 1:13:41.040 --> 1:13:43.680 Street, the neighborhood. There couldn't be any park cars on 1:13:43.720 --> 1:13:46.000 the street. It's a little street on a little hill 1:13:46.080 --> 1:13:48.920 in Highland Park. But to his benefit, he didn't he 1:13:49.000 --> 1:13:51.000 was staying in Beverly Hills and he didn't take the 1:13:51.080 --> 1:13:55.040 motorcade through the city, which would have like fucked everything up. Yeah, 1:13:55.360 --> 1:13:58.240 but he was going to fly in on the helicopter, 1:13:58.880 --> 1:14:01.000 like on the Air Force two or whatever it is. 1:14:01.760 --> 1:14:04.400 And you know, I'm standing around, We're all standing around, 1:14:04.520 --> 1:14:05.960 and you know. 1:14:05.960 --> 1:14:07.759 I'm like, you know, let me know when he's close. 1:14:08.000 --> 1:14:09.519 And they're like, yeah, well, you know when he's twenty 1:14:09.560 --> 1:14:12.160 minutes out. And then we saw the helicopter, like the 1:14:12.240 --> 1:14:15.040 presidential helicopter with the Ospreys in front of it, and 1:14:15.120 --> 1:14:17.120 they were going to land at the Rose Bowl, which 1:14:17.200 --> 1:14:19.519 is like ten minutes away, and we saw him in 1:14:19.520 --> 1:14:19.720 the air. 1:14:19.720 --> 1:14:23.320 I'm like, all right, so he's he's close, you know. 1:14:24.400 --> 1:14:25.599 And then it was just nuts. Man. 1:14:25.680 --> 1:14:29.439 It was like, you know, the motorcades coming up and 1:14:29.520 --> 1:14:32.320 they come up my street, they park, and there's all 1:14:32.400 --> 1:14:35.560 these people coming up that like that tented thing, you know, 1:14:35.880 --> 1:14:38.519 his entourage, and I don't even see him and they're 1:14:38.560 --> 1:14:40.439 coming up to driving and now I just see all 1:14:40.439 --> 1:14:42.479 of a sudden, I see handle Mark and it's. 1:14:42.400 --> 1:14:44.280 Like Obama and I'm like, hey, mister president. 1:14:46.400 --> 1:14:51.120 And you know, that hadn't been a surreal moment totally. 1:14:51.400 --> 1:14:54.080 And my my, my, my producer. 1:14:54.160 --> 1:14:55.840 He's in a well, he's in a suit, and we're 1:14:56.560 --> 1:14:58.320 you know, it's just we're just hanging out waiting for 1:14:58.400 --> 1:15:01.639 the president and and uh, you know, I shake his hand, 1:15:01.720 --> 1:15:04.280 I say, I say, he goes to we We're gonna 1:15:04.320 --> 1:15:05.760 have a good time, I hope, so, you know. 1:15:05.840 --> 1:15:08.760 And we go in there and it was like it 1:15:08.840 --> 1:15:09.559 was intense. Man. 1:15:09.600 --> 1:15:11.400 You know, I had one Secret Service guy in there 1:15:12.000 --> 1:15:13.639 and he was behind me, so I didn't see him 1:15:13.640 --> 1:15:14.960 as Obama was there. 1:15:15.840 --> 1:15:17.600 I remember I asked him to nervous about this, and 1:15:17.680 --> 1:15:19.439 he said, if I was nervous about this, we'd all 1:15:19.479 --> 1:15:20.000 be in trouble. 1:15:21.240 --> 1:15:21.360 Oh. 1:15:21.400 --> 1:15:23.080 Bombay has like a cool sense of humor. 1:15:23.120 --> 1:15:26.559 But I love his poise, Like I love the way 1:15:26.640 --> 1:15:29.479 and I feel like he really processes his answers. 1:15:29.840 --> 1:15:31.000 Oh yeah, very deliberate. 1:15:31.240 --> 1:15:33.439 Yeah, it's almost like you've got to like I had 1:15:33.439 --> 1:15:35.320 to keep it moving because he can, you know, get 1:15:35.479 --> 1:15:37.679 he can talk, you know, and you gotta be careful, 1:15:37.680 --> 1:15:39.559 you on getting the weeds with politics because he can 1:15:39.720 --> 1:15:40.800 very deliberate. 1:15:40.600 --> 1:15:41.920 But he'll he'll go on for a while. 1:15:41.920 --> 1:15:44.000 And we only had an hour, so I keep it going, 1:15:44.120 --> 1:15:46.519 you know, and then we got you know, we got 1:15:46.560 --> 1:15:50.519 into the stuff that we needed to talk about. We 1:15:50.640 --> 1:15:53.720 talked about his life and you know, it got it 1:15:53.920 --> 1:15:56.400 was kind of blew up, not just because he was president, 1:15:57.040 --> 1:16:01.080 but because he used the N word, know, and like 1:16:01.200 --> 1:16:02.960 he made an example on. 1:16:03.040 --> 1:16:04.720 The podcast, like you know, racism. 1:16:05.200 --> 1:16:08.639 Racism isn't over just because people don't use the N word, 1:16:08.840 --> 1:16:11.519 but he said it and it was like, well, I 1:16:11.600 --> 1:16:13.880 didn't really notice it because you know, it's like as 1:16:13.920 --> 1:16:15.200 a comic, you hear a lot of things, but it 1:16:15.240 --> 1:16:16.320 didn't register to me. 1:16:16.479 --> 1:16:18.720 It's like, oh, this is going to be a huge deal. 1:16:19.280 --> 1:16:21.439 But my producer was like, this is going to be 1:16:21.560 --> 1:16:24.240 a huge like this is going to be crazy, and 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:25.320 I'm like, what are you talking about? 1:16:26.280 --> 1:16:29.960 And you know, we only did a. 1:16:29.960 --> 1:16:32.840 Couple of interviews afterwards, my producer who was working for 1:16:32.920 --> 1:16:35.840 Chris Hayes on MSNBC at the time as well. We 1:16:35.960 --> 1:16:38.599 did an interview with Chris and I did Terry Gross 1:16:38.960 --> 1:16:41.320 on MPR. Those were the only two interviews because once 1:16:41.400 --> 1:16:44.519 we released it with that word in there, it blew up, 1:16:45.360 --> 1:16:48.320 like it was like global news, Like they were parked 1:16:48.320 --> 1:16:49.920 in front of my house, you know, how do you 1:16:49.960 --> 1:16:51.960 feel about you know, they want to know how I 1:16:52.040 --> 1:16:52.600 felt about it. 1:16:53.040 --> 1:16:55.680 It just became news. The right was like why does 1:16:55.720 --> 1:16:57.320 he get to use it? You know, all the shit. 1:16:57.960 --> 1:17:02.760 It was crazy, but my he managed it, like God 1:17:02.880 --> 1:17:05.640 damn Champ. He did the two interviews and no one 1:17:05.680 --> 1:17:07.960 else got near us, and that was it. They were 1:17:08.000 --> 1:17:09.519 in my driveway and I didn't deal with them. 1:17:09.960 --> 1:17:11.519 Wow, the news people. 1:17:11.680 --> 1:17:12.200 Yeah, wow. 1:17:13.040 --> 1:17:15.400 When you when you look back at your we're about 1:17:15.479 --> 1:17:18.080 to close up unfortunately, but when you look back at 1:17:18.120 --> 1:17:25.559 your life story, what would you say was your Well, 1:17:25.680 --> 1:17:27.320 I think you covered it, but what was that one 1:17:27.640 --> 1:17:30.280 milestone where you were like, I don't know if I. 1:17:30.280 --> 1:17:30.680 Could go on. 1:17:30.840 --> 1:17:33.400 I think we covered it, but just it happened all 1:17:33.400 --> 1:17:33.680 the time. 1:17:33.800 --> 1:17:34.720 It happened all the time. 1:17:35.240 --> 1:17:37.840 Yeah, because with comedy I saw my friends getting successful 1:17:37.840 --> 1:17:39.479 and I wasn't you know what am I doing? But 1:17:40.200 --> 1:17:43.240 it got to a certain point where you know, you 1:17:43.280 --> 1:17:45.519 don't really have a plan B, Like I never had 1:17:45.560 --> 1:17:46.000 a plan B. 1:17:46.479 --> 1:17:48.040 And it gets further and further away. 1:17:48.320 --> 1:17:49.880 You think you have a plan B, but what is it? 1:17:50.120 --> 1:17:51.760 What Am I going to go back to cocon at 1:17:51.800 --> 1:17:53.720 a restaurant? What am I going to teach? Am I 1:17:53.760 --> 1:17:54.759 going to go back to school? 1:17:55.080 --> 1:17:56.880 You know, the further way that shit gets and what 1:17:57.000 --> 1:17:59.160 am I qualified to do? Like you know, I used 1:17:59.200 --> 1:17:59.920 to do a joke about it. 1:18:00.080 --> 1:18:01.840 It's like you get to a certain point where things 1:18:01.880 --> 1:18:05.439 aren't working out but you know there's no plan being place. 1:18:05.520 --> 1:18:07.360 Then your brain sort of goes like, hey, well I 1:18:07.400 --> 1:18:10.240 don't have to do this because I could always oh shit, 1:18:10.600 --> 1:18:11.599 there used to be something. 1:18:11.800 --> 1:18:11.960 You know. 1:18:12.160 --> 1:18:14.519 Well, sometimes when I get really stressed, I'll make a 1:18:14.600 --> 1:18:17.320 joke and I'm like, sometimes I just think about moving 1:18:17.400 --> 1:18:19.200 to a small town and working. 1:18:19.000 --> 1:18:21.360 At Walmart and sure like disappearing. 1:18:21.560 --> 1:18:23.960 Yeah, just like disappearing and working a regular job and 1:18:24.000 --> 1:18:27.040 living a regular life where I'm not competing against my 1:18:27.120 --> 1:18:31.280 invisible self, because sometimes I feel like I have, you know, 1:18:31.520 --> 1:18:34.719 these things that I'm aspiring to be. But when stress 1:18:34.800 --> 1:18:37.639 levels get too high, I'm like, I can totally work 1:18:37.680 --> 1:18:41.000 at Walmart. And then in my brain it's like, yeah, 1:18:41.360 --> 1:18:43.280 how long do you think you can last? Like you know, 1:18:43.520 --> 1:18:46.000 like I don't know what that'd be my that's literally 1:18:46.080 --> 1:18:47.800 my plan B is like I moved to a small town. 1:18:48.280 --> 1:18:50.519 I live in a little house, and I like, you know, 1:18:51.560 --> 1:18:53.120 a register at a deli or something. 1:18:53.160 --> 1:18:54.040 You know, if you go can. 1:18:54.000 --> 1:18:56.760 Handle that, that's it's a nice place to go in 1:18:56.840 --> 1:18:58.640 your brain, if that makes you feel better, Like I, 1:18:58.880 --> 1:18:59.519 you know, I would. 1:19:00.439 --> 1:19:00.760 I don't know. 1:19:00.880 --> 1:19:02.880 I just kept pressing along, you know, and I kept 1:19:02.880 --> 1:19:04.640 pushing and pushing, and you know, I could you know, 1:19:04.760 --> 1:19:08.560 I was still in the game in a way, you know, 1:19:08.680 --> 1:19:10.640 like I would do cone and I do TV, I 1:19:10.720 --> 1:19:12.920 do radio. Like, you know, there was always I'd get 1:19:12.960 --> 1:19:15.160 a deal here and there, so there was always something 1:19:15.280 --> 1:19:16.400 which isn't always great. 1:19:16.920 --> 1:19:19.160 That was you know, encouraging me to keep going. 1:19:19.640 --> 1:19:22.400 And you know I wasn't again selling tickets as a comic, 1:19:22.439 --> 1:19:23.880 but you know, I knew people who knew me, and 1:19:23.960 --> 1:19:24.880 I could you know, I would go. 1:19:25.000 --> 1:19:27.080 Do the job and I could get on stage and everything. 1:19:27.640 --> 1:19:30.120 But there were just like sometimes you get indulged or 1:19:30.200 --> 1:19:32.479 you get you keep getting little paychecks here and there, 1:19:32.840 --> 1:19:34.960 and you probably you might you should quit. 1:19:35.640 --> 1:19:36.960 There's I've seen you know, I've been. 1:19:36.880 --> 1:19:39.920 In this game a long time, right, so almost almost 1:19:40.000 --> 1:19:43.280 forty years. You know, people come and go, some people disappear. 1:19:43.400 --> 1:19:45.680 You don't know how people survive. You know, you have 1:19:45.760 --> 1:19:47.719 no idea what people are up to. You see comics, 1:19:48.120 --> 1:19:50.320 you know, you know, see him for ten years, You're like, well, 1:19:50.400 --> 1:19:53.599 you've been doing. Some guys get out altogether. Some guys 1:19:53.680 --> 1:19:55.800 go into writing, they go into radio, they go into 1:19:56.000 --> 1:19:58.000 you know, producing whatever it is, or they get out. 1:19:58.200 --> 1:20:01.479 But but there's something when you're the one in charge 1:20:02.000 --> 1:20:06.240 of deciding when you're done, you know, delusion could certainly 1:20:06.520 --> 1:20:09.479 feed into that, and you kind of have to be 1:20:09.560 --> 1:20:13.760 delusional to make it go with this game, you have 1:20:13.960 --> 1:20:17.280 to be. But and also, like I've grown to realize that, 1:20:17.479 --> 1:20:19.840 like there were people in the past where I'd seen 1:20:19.880 --> 1:20:22.080 them like, what's this guy thinking, this guy's never gonna 1:20:22.680 --> 1:20:23.960 do it, and they do it. 1:20:24.800 --> 1:20:26.200 They figure it out, they. 1:20:26.160 --> 1:20:31.519 Figure out something, so I don't really judge. And also delusion, 1:20:31.600 --> 1:20:35.040 being a delusional to a certain degree is necessary to 1:20:35.240 --> 1:20:36.920 do this. Yeah, but you do it innately because you 1:20:37.000 --> 1:20:39.200 want to do this. You don't plan on being delusional, 1:20:39.800 --> 1:20:40.400 but you have to. 1:20:40.560 --> 1:20:41.439 You are to be. 1:20:41.680 --> 1:20:45.120 Of course, I think any time you're pursuing your dreams, 1:20:45.280 --> 1:20:49.320 especially like you know, there's no resume to get to 1:20:49.520 --> 1:20:51.880 like I didn't work a million places to. 1:20:51.920 --> 1:20:53.559 Get to this point. I just had a vision. 1:20:53.760 --> 1:20:55.400 Or you have a vision and you're like, I'm gonna 1:20:55.840 --> 1:20:57.360 kind of like what I was saying, I was, I 1:20:57.479 --> 1:20:59.800 had a vision and then just I take one step 1:21:00.000 --> 1:21:00.439 at a time. 1:21:00.479 --> 1:21:03.240 And I actually think that kind of works if you 1:21:03.280 --> 1:21:05.439 don't talk about your vision too much and you don't 1:21:05.439 --> 1:21:10.120 smoke too much weed. But but yeah, there's been definitely 1:21:10.200 --> 1:21:10.880 pivotal points. 1:21:11.080 --> 1:21:12.920 Why do you think if you talk about it too much, 1:21:13.160 --> 1:21:18.519 it's because you just you know, it's like if you like, 1:21:18.680 --> 1:21:20.599 there's some things I want to do, and I stick 1:21:20.640 --> 1:21:23.960 them in my brain, and you know, I don't sit 1:21:24.040 --> 1:21:26.360 there and meditate on them, but like, I know I 1:21:26.439 --> 1:21:26.920 want to do it. 1:21:27.000 --> 1:21:29.240 There's there's not there's a small menu of things I 1:21:29.439 --> 1:21:32.439 want to do. So I put in my brain that 1:21:32.439 --> 1:21:34.559 I want to do it, and then at some point, 1:21:34.880 --> 1:21:37.560 you know, the opportunity reveals itself and I do it. 1:21:38.240 --> 1:21:40.120 And I don't know if it's magic or what. But 1:21:41.000 --> 1:21:44.080 the thing about how it happened for me in that 1:21:44.439 --> 1:21:47.880 you know that the podcast happened and my timing was right, 1:21:48.000 --> 1:21:50.880 is that the one thing I knew is that a 1:21:50.920 --> 1:21:53.960 lot of opportunities came from the podcast, you know, book opportunities, 1:21:54.040 --> 1:21:56.360 acting opportunities. I did my own show and I have 1:21:56.479 --> 1:21:59.760 c stand up became a real business for me. I 1:21:59.800 --> 1:22:01.960 got following, but that all came out of the podcast. 1:22:02.840 --> 1:22:04.080 But the one thing I knew when I did that 1:22:04.200 --> 1:22:08.639 podcast was that, you know, I was ready to do whatever. 1:22:09.280 --> 1:22:11.479 You know, I'd been in the game, like that was 1:22:11.720 --> 1:22:14.479 in my forties, right. So the podcast starts two thousand 1:22:14.479 --> 1:22:16.599 and nine, sixty three, seventy three, eighty three, ninety three, 1:22:16.680 --> 1:22:19.559 two thousand and three, so I'm forty five man. 1:22:20.120 --> 1:22:25.800 Yeah, so when you started Yeah, so look you. 1:22:25.840 --> 1:22:29.639 Know or was that it? Yeah, something like that, not older. 1:22:29.800 --> 1:22:32.160 Yeah, when I started the podcast, but I've been doing 1:22:32.200 --> 1:22:33.240 comedy since eighty eight. 1:22:33.360 --> 1:22:35.599 Yeah. So I had chops. 1:22:36.000 --> 1:22:38.080 I had radio chops that had stand up chops, and 1:22:38.120 --> 1:22:40.000 I had some acting chops, and I you know, I 1:22:40.640 --> 1:22:44.800 definitely had put my you know, ten thousand hours in right, 1:22:44.960 --> 1:22:47.880 so by the time the other opportunities happened, you know, 1:22:47.960 --> 1:22:50.720 it was gravy man, like, yeah, I'll try that. Yeah, 1:22:50.760 --> 1:22:53.080 I don't give a shit. Yeah, you know, even without money. 1:22:53.120 --> 1:22:55.040 It's like, here come the opportunities. When I was younger, 1:22:55.080 --> 1:22:57.080 I get opportunities. I wasn't ready, but I was so 1:22:57.640 --> 1:23:00.599 hungry for them. I'd take them anyways, and then they 1:23:00.640 --> 1:23:03.639 don't work out because it's hard to know when you're ready. 1:23:03.800 --> 1:23:06.080 It's one thing to be delusional and committed and persistent 1:23:06.160 --> 1:23:08.800 to doing something, but if you get an opportunity that 1:23:08.920 --> 1:23:12.600 you may not make yourself, you better be ready to 1:23:12.680 --> 1:23:12.920 do it. 1:23:13.920 --> 1:23:14.519 Do you know what I mean? 1:23:14.800 --> 1:23:16.600 Like, because what I'm saying like, yeah, the podcast, I 1:23:16.680 --> 1:23:19.640 made that myself, acting and you know, doing stand up 1:23:19.720 --> 1:23:22.800 and movie options like if I get a deal, if 1:23:22.840 --> 1:23:25.559 someone goes, we want you to do this for our networker. Ready, 1:23:25.880 --> 1:23:27.120 Like back in the day, I'd be like, yeah, of 1:23:27.120 --> 1:23:31.120 course I wouldn't ready. But now, like I knew after 1:23:31.200 --> 1:23:33.760 the podcast after a few years, like I can do anything. 1:23:34.160 --> 1:23:35.040 I put the work in. 1:23:35.240 --> 1:23:38.679 Yeah, I can show up for that gig with full confidence, 1:23:39.040 --> 1:23:41.000 in a full, self actualized way. 1:23:41.400 --> 1:23:44.720 And did you ever this will be my last? Did 1:23:44.800 --> 1:23:49.400 you ever focus on your age too? Because when I was. 1:23:49.400 --> 1:23:50.840 Young, I would be like, by the time I'm twenty four, 1:23:50.880 --> 1:23:52.479 I want to be a millionaire. But I don't know 1:23:52.479 --> 1:23:54.640 if it's because I came from being poor, you know, 1:23:54.720 --> 1:23:58.200 where money was like always a issue, you know. 1:23:58.800 --> 1:24:02.280 I guess I did a little little bit, but I don't. 1:24:02.320 --> 1:24:04.880 I don't remember, like I always thought, like, well I 1:24:05.000 --> 1:24:05.200 used to. 1:24:05.600 --> 1:24:07.640 There's to be this idea that you know, as you 1:24:07.720 --> 1:24:11.439 get older, the heroes that you wanted to emulate or 1:24:11.520 --> 1:24:14.680 be like they, you know, the age goes up, you know, 1:24:14.760 --> 1:24:16.880 like at first, like I want to be like you know, 1:24:16.960 --> 1:24:19.160 Richard pry or whatever. Yeah, but then like you know, 1:24:19.240 --> 1:24:21.040 you pass a certain line of agent. It's like, well, 1:24:21.120 --> 1:24:22.400 Rodney Dangerfield didn't. 1:24:22.200 --> 1:24:25.080 Make it really till it was like sixty, like that's 1:24:25.120 --> 1:24:25.679 the new guy. 1:24:25.800 --> 1:24:26.000 Yeah. 1:24:26.760 --> 1:24:28.639 Yeah. That was the thing I always try to remind 1:24:28.680 --> 1:24:32.360 myself of the founder of KFC. Did you hear his 1:24:32.439 --> 1:24:34.800 story about how he like he was like living in 1:24:34.840 --> 1:24:36.920 his car he was trying to sell his recipe off 1:24:37.000 --> 1:24:38.120 and he didn't make it till he was like it 1:24:38.240 --> 1:24:38.719 is sixties. 1:24:38.840 --> 1:24:39.720 Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. 1:24:39.800 --> 1:24:41.920 I get those, and I'm always like, yo, does he 1:24:42.200 --> 1:24:44.000 make it? So he was like, sixty, you got time? 1:24:44.080 --> 1:24:46.240 Yeah, you know that helps you yeah, yeah, yeah. 1:24:46.280 --> 1:24:50.000 But like it ultimately, whether you backloaded or not, it 1:24:50.320 --> 1:24:54.800 is a process, and you don't you don't really know 1:24:55.000 --> 1:24:57.320 how it's going to work out in this business. Like 1:24:57.400 --> 1:25:00.120 I had no anticipation. And by the time I or 1:25:00.160 --> 1:25:03.040 the podcast, I was pretty bleak, pretty depressed. I was 1:25:03.080 --> 1:25:05.760 looking at, you know, a lifetime of you know, being 1:25:05.880 --> 1:25:08.479 like a b headliner in a way, you know, or 1:25:08.680 --> 1:25:11.559 just kind of hammering it out, and you know, it's 1:25:11.560 --> 1:25:15.160 almost suicidal, really, and because I didn't know what else 1:25:15.240 --> 1:25:15.439 to do. 1:25:16.320 --> 1:25:18.439 But at least you were, but you were you were 1:25:18.520 --> 1:25:20.960 almost suicidal, but you did not cave in sobriety. 1:25:21.640 --> 1:25:22.400 No, I didn't drink. 1:25:22.960 --> 1:25:23.920 Yeah, that's amazing. 1:25:24.640 --> 1:25:25.240 Yeah, well that's it. 1:25:25.400 --> 1:25:27.800 Like, well, if you work that first step, man, you 1:25:27.840 --> 1:25:31.479 know you do know, you know that if you understand 1:25:31.560 --> 1:25:35.160 what powerless means, you know, like if if the idea 1:25:35.240 --> 1:25:38.559 is like you were powerless over whatever, and your life 1:25:38.600 --> 1:25:42.320 has become unmanageable, you realize that what that means is 1:25:42.360 --> 1:25:45.160 that I have no ability to control my drinking or 1:25:45.280 --> 1:25:48.439 drug use. And that's I've proven that to myself again 1:25:48.520 --> 1:25:51.840 and again that I can't control it. So if you 1:25:51.920 --> 1:25:54.240 get that in your head deep enough, you know that 1:25:54.479 --> 1:25:56.439 taking a drug or taking a drink is only going 1:25:56.479 --> 1:25:58.120 to lead to more drugs and more drinks is not 1:25:58.200 --> 1:26:01.800 going to give you anything but that. Okay, So once 1:26:01.880 --> 1:26:05.639 you understand that, like because like as an attic person, 1:26:06.320 --> 1:26:09.320 it's like, if you're honest with yourself, you don't the 1:26:09.439 --> 1:26:10.920 idea is like I can drink regular. 1:26:11.040 --> 1:26:13.280 It's like, no, you can't. You never did. So you 1:26:13.400 --> 1:26:14.880 got to get into your mind that like, if I'm 1:26:14.880 --> 1:26:16.040 gonna drink, that's what I'm gonna do. 1:26:16.400 --> 1:26:19.000 Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna be every day, and it's 1:26:19.040 --> 1:26:21.960 gonna be for real. Yeah, Like there's all this legal 1:26:22.000 --> 1:26:24.160 weed around. I used to love weed, but I know that, 1:26:24.320 --> 1:26:27.040 like if I start doing a gummy or smoking a 1:26:27.040 --> 1:26:27.839 little weed. 1:26:27.960 --> 1:26:30.439 It's gonna be every day. It'd be every day within 1:26:30.560 --> 1:26:32.720 two weeks. Wow, it's to the nature of the game. 1:26:33.160 --> 1:26:35.479 But the first step is to recognize that you're powerless. 1:26:35.680 --> 1:26:35.880 Yeah. 1:26:37.000 --> 1:26:38.000 Wow, that's the heavy one. 1:26:38.200 --> 1:26:41.000 I think save that for myself. 1:26:41.080 --> 1:26:42.320 Well, you're well, the weird. 1:26:42.200 --> 1:26:45.000 Thing is powerlessness as a position. You realize that, if 1:26:45.000 --> 1:26:48.240 you really think about it, you're powerless over most things. 1:26:49.160 --> 1:26:52.760 Yeah, I've been starting I had a tough year this year, 1:26:52.800 --> 1:26:56.040 and so I've been starting to realize that. Slowly. 1:26:56.400 --> 1:26:57.840 It took me like hit in my head. You know, 1:26:57.960 --> 1:27:00.679 you repeat the same actions, you just the same results, 1:27:00.720 --> 1:27:04.280 and I'm like, you know what, you gotta admit this 1:27:04.400 --> 1:27:08.040 one right here. This is you have lit hit insanity. 1:27:08.160 --> 1:27:10.240 And I think in that you realize that you're powerless. 1:27:10.400 --> 1:27:11.719 Well that's yeah, that's the equation. 1:27:12.160 --> 1:27:12.920 Yeah, that's right. 1:27:13.080 --> 1:27:13.280 Yeah. 1:27:13.840 --> 1:27:15.639 Yeah, Well, I just want to say it's a pleasure 1:27:15.720 --> 1:27:19.000 having you. Your meal was a ten out of a ten. 1:27:19.160 --> 1:27:23.519 Okay, and uh, the last couple of episodes, my guess 1:27:23.560 --> 1:27:26.760 we'll know. I've been like it will never happen again. 1:27:26.920 --> 1:27:30.479 I for sure will go home. I'm keeping the tahini sauce. 1:27:30.840 --> 1:27:35.240 Did you want it? Okay, sa the I won't even 1:27:35.320 --> 1:27:38.639 have that? I will? Are you sure I was gonna say? 1:27:38.680 --> 1:27:41.559 I'm definitely gonna get shout outs to the Japanese barbecue 1:27:41.560 --> 1:27:46.880 sauce and the tin sauce. Yeah yeah, let me just 1:27:46.920 --> 1:27:51.040 tell you, guys, that sauce rice the beyond burger. 1:27:51.200 --> 1:27:54.599 I think the beyond burger's texture and flavor than you thought. 1:27:54.680 --> 1:27:56.760 Right, Yeah, well, I've had Beyond burgers. I do have 1:27:56.880 --> 1:27:58.720 one question. How do you cook a beyond burger and 1:27:58.760 --> 1:27:59.360 know it's cooked? 1:28:00.040 --> 1:28:01.880 Brown it on both sides. I don't think there's anything 1:28:01.960 --> 1:28:05.240 in there like raw meat. I think it's all plant stuff. Anyways, Okay, 1:28:05.320 --> 1:28:06.880 we just cook it like a burger, but you don't 1:28:06.920 --> 1:28:09.200 you know, you know, you know, don't dry it out, 1:28:09.400 --> 1:28:09.560 you know. 1:28:10.760 --> 1:28:13.160 I definitely one hundred percent will make this meal at 1:28:13.200 --> 1:28:16.800 home for me and my minion. But yeah, thank you 1:28:16.880 --> 1:28:18.720 so much for taking time out of your schedule. How 1:28:18.800 --> 1:28:21.640 can fans keep up with you? It's oh, you know, 1:28:21.800 --> 1:28:23.639 you guys know how to keep up with Mark Merret 1:28:23.760 --> 1:28:24.000 Come on. 1:28:24.479 --> 1:28:27.519 Wtfpod dot com is the website for the podcast at 1:28:27.600 --> 1:28:30.200 Mark Maren on Instagram. 1:28:29.840 --> 1:28:31.880 And do you still have a Patreon and all that. 1:28:32.040 --> 1:28:34.680 I never had a Patreon, Oh, you know, because. 1:28:34.400 --> 1:28:37.519 You were before it ever. A lot of podcasts that 1:28:37.600 --> 1:28:39.360 I know are doing it and know. 1:28:39.360 --> 1:28:43.519 What it is. I'm not really that tech savvy. You know. 1:28:43.760 --> 1:28:46.120 I've got a TikTok too, but I'm not that. I 1:28:46.400 --> 1:28:49.840 have a guy that just puts stuff up there Instagram. Occasionally, 1:28:49.840 --> 1:28:52.040 if you follow me on Instagram, I'll do a live 1:28:52.280 --> 1:28:55.160 and they'll be long, and they usually happen the day 1:28:55.200 --> 1:28:57.360 that I have to record for the podcast the next day, 1:28:57.600 --> 1:29:01.559 every Sunday and third and Wednesday. You know, I've got 1:29:01.640 --> 1:29:03.720 to do the ads and the intros for the for 1:29:03.840 --> 1:29:06.479 the interview. And sometimes before I do that, I'll go 1:29:06.600 --> 1:29:08.600 on Instagram live for like hour an hour and a 1:29:08.640 --> 1:29:10.479 half and just walk. 1:29:10.320 --> 1:29:12.960 Through my life, talk to my cats, play guitar. Yeah, 1:29:13.000 --> 1:29:13.240 I did it. 1:29:13.360 --> 1:29:16.200 I started doing it during the pandemic, just to stay 1:29:16.240 --> 1:29:18.559 staying and stay connected to an audience. 1:29:19.840 --> 1:29:21.479 And I would do almost like a morning show. 1:29:21.760 --> 1:29:24.000 You went through a lot during the pandemic, Yeah. 1:29:24.120 --> 1:29:28.120 Yes, yeah I did. My girlfriend passed away and. 1:29:29.360 --> 1:29:34.200 And you again, you stayed strong, like sobriety if. 1:29:33.360 --> 1:29:35.280 I stay strong. I went through a lot of pain, 1:29:35.360 --> 1:29:37.639 but I did not. Yeah, yeah you didn't stay it's sober. 1:29:37.760 --> 1:29:38.519 Yeah, you stayed sober. 1:29:39.120 --> 1:29:41.200 The only reason why I say that is because typically 1:29:42.200 --> 1:29:44.040 from the little bit that I know about addiction is 1:29:44.080 --> 1:29:47.439 like when those things happen, you find those ways to cope. 1:29:47.560 --> 1:29:49.160 Yeah, but you'll But what. 1:29:49.240 --> 1:29:51.519 You know when you get enough sobriety is that you 1:29:51.680 --> 1:29:54.120 adding drugs or drink that this ain't gonna help nothing, 1:29:55.200 --> 1:29:57.320 and you know it could just lead to more drugs 1:29:57.360 --> 1:29:59.479 and drink, because you know, coping is one thing, but 1:29:59.600 --> 1:30:02.360 you know you're built to cope no matter what. You 1:30:02.560 --> 1:30:04.960 just have to feel the feelings, like because drugs and 1:30:05.080 --> 1:30:08.519 drink is not really coping. Self medicating is not really coping, 1:30:08.600 --> 1:30:11.320 especially if you have a problem, because then that becomes 1:30:11.360 --> 1:30:11.880 the problem. 1:30:12.760 --> 1:30:14.280 The thing is is like you know, you have the 1:30:14.320 --> 1:30:17.080 feelings and you know eventually it'll get better, you know. 1:30:17.360 --> 1:30:19.640 I was had a conversation with my little brother the 1:30:19.680 --> 1:30:22.360 other day and he said something that I felt was 1:30:22.439 --> 1:30:24.680 so remarkable. On a group text with our family. He 1:30:24.800 --> 1:30:27.080 said something like he was depressed, and I'm like, I've 1:30:27.240 --> 1:30:29.519 never heard my brother use this term. So I reached 1:30:29.520 --> 1:30:31.000 out to him, like, what's going on He's like, don't 1:30:31.040 --> 1:30:31.479 worry about it. 1:30:31.479 --> 1:30:32.439 I was like, why he. 1:30:32.520 --> 1:30:36.240 Goes depression is like a cold. He's like, eventually, you know, 1:30:36.640 --> 1:30:38.400 in a couple of days, it's going to ease up. 1:30:38.720 --> 1:30:39.519 You just go through it. 1:30:40.080 --> 1:30:42.680 And I never thought of it like that, but just 1:30:42.800 --> 1:30:45.360 the thought of thinking of, Okay, I'm in this sad state. 1:30:45.439 --> 1:30:47.080 It's going to be a moment in time and then 1:30:47.080 --> 1:30:50.320 I'm going to come through it, and you know, shout 1:30:50.320 --> 1:30:51.880 out to my little brother. But I thought that was 1:30:52.000 --> 1:30:55.360 one of the most unique ways of dealing with pain. 1:30:55.439 --> 1:30:58.160 It's just like in a couple of days, in a week, 1:30:58.360 --> 1:30:58.960 I'll be fine. 1:30:59.000 --> 1:30:59.479 It's a cold. 1:30:59.520 --> 1:31:02.280 Well that's the Yeah, Like that's a there's a little 1:31:02.320 --> 1:31:04.240 saying that called feelings aren't facts. 1:31:05.200 --> 1:31:09.519 Yeah, you know, like you know eventually though, yeah, but yeah, 1:31:09.800 --> 1:31:11.760 be careful with the depression. If you got it, you know, 1:31:11.800 --> 1:31:12.600 if you really got it. 1:31:13.240 --> 1:31:13.400 Yeah. 1:31:13.439 --> 1:31:16.280 Yeah. Sadness is sadness. 1:31:16.560 --> 1:31:18.400 This is sadness. But thank you so much. 1:31:18.640 --> 1:31:21.519 I enjoyed our meal, and thanks for sharing your story 1:31:21.600 --> 1:31:23.120 and being very transparent with me. 1:31:23.360 --> 1:31:24.600 You're welcome, Thanks for having me. 1:31:24.840 --> 1:31:47.400 Yeah, thank you, all right, peace out guys for more 1:31:47.479 --> 1:31:50.280 eating while broke from iHeart radio and the Black Effect. 1:31:50.479 --> 1:31:54.040 Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen 1:31:54.080 --> 1:31:55.200 to your favorite shows.