1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,239 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke. 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: I'm your host, coleeen Witt, and today we have a 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: very special guest, comedian, actor, writer, producer, but the godfather 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: of podcasting. As everyone has been like buzzing about, Mark 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: Marin is in the building and I am I'm like nervous, 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: which I never really get nervous. I'm excited. I've been excited. 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: I've been emailing you. And just so you guys know 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: a little backstory. I just walked up on him, did 9 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: my elevator pitch, and he was really really nice. 10 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 2: Guys, So if. 11 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: You want to get a glimpse of who he is, 12 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: like off camera, that's who he was. And I sent 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: you an email. 14 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 3: I know, I didn't know how it was gonna unfold, really, 15 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 3: you know, I said okay, and then I didn't know if. 16 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 4: You were going to email, and then emailed and then 17 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 4: I was like maybe later. Yeah. 18 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 5: He kept on me and okay, yeah, I did a 19 00:00:49,600 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 5: little follow I'm driving out there. 20 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: And then what I loved is that you were like, 21 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: you know, you used to eat meat, right, yeah? 22 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 2: And then you were like I'm vegan, now how do 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: we do this? 24 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: And we went back and forth about that a little bit, 25 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: and guys, before he announces his dish, I just want 26 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: to let you know that I was so excited. I 27 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: got in the kitchen to a little bit on his 28 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: meal and I helped make. 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: One of the ingredients. 30 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 4: I was surprised, that's pretty good. 31 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 3: Well, I just figured that ingredient out, because when I 32 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 3: was coming up early on, I don't even remember what 33 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 3: I ate. 34 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 4: I don't remember cooking. 35 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 3: I don't because I was in New York City and 36 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 3: there was really the kitchen was hardly a kitchen in 37 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 3: the apartment. This is going back to the beginning of 38 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: the career. I can cook now and I cook all 39 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 3: the time, but that back then, I was like, what 40 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 3: did I even eat? And then I started to think 41 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 3: about it today and I still can't remember that well 42 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 3: because I didn't really eat breakfast. I smoked, so it 43 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 3: was like cigarettes and coffee for breakfast. I don't know 44 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 3: what happened at lunch. 45 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 4: Really. I know I didn't cook in New York. 46 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 3: Back and I was there eighty nine like and in 47 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 3: a small apartment on the Lower East Side. But I 48 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: do remember trying to figure out how to eat cheaply 49 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 3: and what me and the other comics would do. So 50 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 3: I had to dig up this restaurant, which is the 51 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 3: one I remember going to a lot and look at 52 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 3: their menu and then figure out what it was that 53 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 3: we used to eat there. And I figured it out. 54 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 3: And it wasn't easy. I mean, it wasn't hard to 55 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: make vegan. 56 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh no, no, it seems pretty simple. 57 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: But why don't you tell our listeners what it is 58 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: you're going to have me eating today? 59 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 3: Okay, Well, the original dish was at a place called Dojo, 60 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 3: which was this sort of kind of almost like hippie 61 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,399 Speaker 3: Asian place on St. Mark's and it was open late, 62 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 3: so we would go. It was do you know Todd 63 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: Berry is to comic like. There was a few guys 64 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 3: that would hang out, but we would eat there a 65 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 3: lot because it was cheap. And what we would get 66 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 3: they had, like, you know, they had a lot of 67 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 3: like noodles and stuff, but they had they had turkey burgers, 68 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 3: and they had these kind. 69 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 4: Of tofu burgers which were kind of weird. 70 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: Because you'd think it was healthy but it was deep 71 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 3: fried and it had like so we. 72 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 4: Would get No. 73 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 3: I don't know how they made it. I remember I 74 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: had like seaweed strands in it somehow. But what we 75 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 3: would get we get a turkey burger, but not a 76 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 3: turkey burger sandwich. Get the turkey burger on brown rice. 77 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: And then they had this this Japanese barbecue sauce, which 78 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 3: wasn't that good, but I forgot to tell you about that, 79 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 3: so I bought one. 80 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 4: We'll see how that goes. 81 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,839 Speaker 3: And then they'd have either a side salad or side 82 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 3: of steam vegetables. And they made this dressing. There's a 83 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 3: few different versions of this dressing in New York. It's 84 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 3: a I think it's a Japanese style dressing, kind of 85 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 3: this carroat ginger thing. But I've tried to make make 86 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 3: it another way, which is more complicated. And then before 87 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 3: I was going to talk to you, I looked up 88 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 3: that recipe because when I went to look at the 89 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 3: dojo menu, it was a carrot ginger tahini recipe. So 90 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 3: I found this and I tried it at home and 91 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 3: I'm like, that's kind of it, and then you and 92 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 3: I sent you the recipe. 93 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 4: So ye did it? 94 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: Did it? I actually did it? 95 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: So basically what we're eating is brown rice with a 96 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 3: patty on top, with the side of the steam vegetables 97 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 3: with the dressing, and I'll put the barbecue sauce on 98 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 3: the patty. 99 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: So there are no buns. 100 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was, well, you can, you can have a 101 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 4: turkey burger on a bun. 102 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 3: But we were I think we were kind of I 103 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 3: don't know if I've always been health conscious, but it 104 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 3: was just it was the way to do it, to 105 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: get more of a full meal for the price. Right, 106 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 3: you can get a burger, but like the rice and 107 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 3: everything else, it was the way to go. 108 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 4: It's like a platter versus just a burger. 109 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it, because you know, you 110 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: go out and you order a burger, You're like, what's 111 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: going on the side of it? 112 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: What can I fill up even more with? 113 00:04:58,760 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 4: Sure? 114 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 3: And a lot of time when you're starting out in 115 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 3: comedy anyways, you kind of figure out, Like once I 116 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 3: got into the comedy cellar, you could just eat there. 117 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: You would figure out ways to eat for free at 118 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 3: the club and that's not always healthy. But the comedy 119 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 3: seller had great food, like great food, but I was 120 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 3: trying to figure out what was I eating and we'd either. 121 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: Go I'm surprised you didn't get like chopped cheese. But 122 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: it sounds like you were more health conscious. 123 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 3: Well it was health conscious, but also like I was 124 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 3: never I don't feel like I was ever so conscious. 125 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 3: Like I would spend money on food and the kitchen. 126 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: Like I said, I didn't have anything in that kitchen. 127 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 3: I remember one time I tried to, like, I gone 128 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 3: out to eat at a Chinese place and they had 129 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 3: this full, like steamed fish with ginger. 130 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 4: It was like really good. I'm like, I'm gonna make 131 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 4: one of those. 132 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 3: So I went down to Chinatown and I bought a 133 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 3: walk and some soy sauce and a whole fish. And 134 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 3: I got back to my kitchen. I'm like, I can't 135 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: even cut this. 136 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 4: It was so sad. It was just me and this 137 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 4: whole fish and. 138 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 2: You didn't have knives or something. 139 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 4: Well I did, but not much. 140 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 3: I didn't know how to, you know, manage a kitchen. 141 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 3: And I'd worked in restaurants my whole life. And that 142 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 3: was the other thing about starting out too, back when 143 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 3: I was in Boston before New York, because I worked 144 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 3: at a restaurant, but it was a coffee place before Starbucks. 145 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 3: It was a real high end coffee place at a 146 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 3: small menu, but still I was just jacked up on 147 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 3: coffee all the time, smoking cigarettes. So there wasn't a 148 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 3: lot of eating going on that I remember. But I 149 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 3: do remember when I lived in New York on the 150 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 3: Lower East Side that like, if I was going to 151 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 3: eat breakfast, it was one of those kind of wrapped 152 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 3: you know that that coffee cake with the cinnamon brown 153 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 3: sugar crumbles. Oh yeah, I love the best, but you 154 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 3: know it's all suit Yeah. Yeah, So I remember eating 155 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 3: those with coffee and smoking, and there was another place 156 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 3: we used to go to. No, but I'm on the 157 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 3: nicotine again. I had a nicotine lost a je I 158 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 3: like nicotine. 159 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 2: What is that like a patch or something. 160 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 3: No, it's literally a candy and you just kind of 161 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 3: put it in your mouth and suck on it for 162 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 3: a minute until you feel the buzz and then you 163 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 3: just kind of stick it in your lip. 164 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 4: I have one in now. Oh wow, I don't know. 165 00:06:58,720 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 4: I was off. 166 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 3: I've gotten on on and off nicotine and forms over 167 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 3: the years. 168 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: I did you feel the buzz from the cigaret? I've 169 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: never really got. I'm never well. I suck at smoking. 170 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like I've tried smoking weed. I tried smoking 171 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: a cigarette once, I just don't think I know how 172 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: to Yeah, well, I know how. 173 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 4: To smoke anything. So you know, drugs are definitely part 174 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 4: of this story. 175 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: I every night, sure, I just do it, and I'm like, 176 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: I have the best sleep. 177 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't do that. I've been sober a long 178 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 3: time twenty four years. 179 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: Wow, that's amazing now. Where you sober back then? 180 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 4: No, I you know that that whole thing. 181 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: But the other place I can tell you about, the 182 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: other place we used to eat was this Polish place 183 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 3: called Kiev, And it was like there was a whole 184 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 3: crew of comics that were around then. So it was me, 185 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 3: Sarah Silverman, Jeff Ross, Louis, Nick Depolo, and Todd Berry 186 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 3: where we'd hang out after these clubs. 187 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 4: But Kiev used to be up. 188 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 3: In twenty four hours, and I didn't want to try 189 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 3: to get You want to try to figure out. 190 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 4: How to make parogi's or borsh it's a process. 191 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 3: But that was like the other cheap place we would 192 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 3: eat drugs and alcohol. I think when I got to 193 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 3: New York, I was out here. I graduated college and 194 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 3: I wanted to do comedy. I came out here to 195 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 3: La Yeah, and I didn't really know my a buddy 196 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 3: of mine who I used to do like comedy skits 197 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: with in college, was a year ahead of me, and 198 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 3: he moved out here and we had written some stuff together. 199 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 3: So I was going to write with him, and he 200 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: lived in Culver City, so I moved to Culver City 201 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 3: in with him. We wrote a script and it was 202 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 3: a nightmare working with him. And I just want to 203 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 3: do comedy. So I had auditioned at the comedy store 204 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 3: and the improv or whatever, and then by coincidence, you know, 205 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 3: I got a PA job on a shoot that Mitzi Shore, 206 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 3: who owned the comedy store, was doing. And then I 207 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 3: was like, do you remember me, I auditioned for you. 208 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 3: She's like, yeah, you can be in paid regular. 209 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 4: So then I got a job as a doorman. 210 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: Okay, that's by the way. 211 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: I think it's so weird that the comedy door makes 212 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: or doesn't make their comics, but you know their comics 213 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: are like dorman. 214 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 4: Well, there was a system, yeah, and it was it 215 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 4: was the way it worked. 216 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 3: It was a singular thing, and all the doormen were comics. 217 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 3: And back then it was before Bringer shows and any 218 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 3: of that crap. 219 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 4: Right, So so when you were a door guy, at 220 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 4: the comedy store. 221 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 3: You were in the system and you'd be and I 222 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 3: loved the place, like and eventually I got pushed out 223 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 3: of the place in Culver City and I moved up 224 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 3: to uh Mitzi owned a house behind the comedy store 225 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 3: that she rent out to comics. So I lived in Crestilla, 226 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 3: And you know, at that time, the big acts or 227 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 3: who was I watching as a door guy became I 228 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 3: was the head door guy because no one wanted to 229 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 3: do it. It was ridiculous because I was doing blow and 230 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 3: I was like drinking. I was living the life, you know. 231 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 3: And then like the big comics at the time, I 232 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 3: was watching Damon in the main room, Cannison, Dice, who 233 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 3: else was like? Who were the big acts around? Like Cannison, 234 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 3: Sam Canison and Dice were of coming up at the 235 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 3: same time and they kind of blew up at that time. 236 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 3: But there were people I liked to watch. Belzer was there. 237 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 3: I used to love watching Damon Wayams, Louis Anderson. But 238 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 3: Damon would always be He'd take chances would be pretty weird, yeah, yeah, 239 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 3: because he would go on, I mean, this is nineteen 240 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 3: eighty seven, and he and I would be like, well, 241 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 3: what kind of are you going to do your act? 242 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 3: He's like, no, I think I'm gonna do a jazz 243 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 3: set tonight. And he would just push it and do 244 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 3: these characters and just push it. 245 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 4: Way over the edge. But Kennison was like that too. 246 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 3: But anyway, so I started hanging around with Cannison kinda 247 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 3: and doing a lot of drugs with that guy. So 248 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 3: the point being is when I left LA in eighty eight, 249 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 3: I was out of my mind from cocaine psychosis and 250 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 3: I was just crazy, like I was, you know, like 251 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 3: hallucinating and like I thought, paranoid and I was way 252 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 3: gone and things fell apart at the comedy. 253 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 4: Store and I just left. 254 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: When you say they fell apart at the comedy store, well. 255 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 4: I mes a door guy. There wasn't much to fall apart. 256 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 3: But I was using my mind from staying up too 257 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 3: much and not sleeping and hanging out with these demons. 258 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 4: These It was insane at that time. It was the 259 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 4: late eighties. 260 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 3: It was insane the people that were hanging around what 261 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 3: was going on there, you know, because there was like 262 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 3: this weird triangle between the roxy which was rock and 263 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 3: roll so and Monday nights at the store back then, 264 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 3: we're open. They were free, all the rooms were free, 265 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 3: so all the freaks would come and that was like 266 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 3: Kennison's big night. He'd show up at like Elevin. He 267 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 3: give me a bunch of money to go set up, 268 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 3: you know, a party at the house that would start 269 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 3: on Monday and go to like Wednesday. 270 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: It was just literally three days. 271 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 272 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 3: Crazy, So I lost my mind and I realized that, 273 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 3: you know, I remember the moment I kind of had 274 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 3: a meltdown in the parking lot because I was just 275 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 3: out of my mind and I had a falling out 276 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 3: with Sam over some weird shit, and I remember asking 277 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 3: the drug dealer. 278 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 6: I'm like, I don't know, man, I don't know what 279 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 6: to do. It's like things are falling apart, you know, 280 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 6: out of the group. And the drug dealer was like, 281 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 6: you got to you gotta leave. You got to go 282 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 6: do your own thing. So if the drug dealers telling 283 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 6: you to leave, wow, it's time to leave. 284 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, because yeah, So I went. 285 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 4: Home to New Mexico. 286 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 3: I got clean for the first time, went to rehab, 287 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 3: and I went back to Boston. 288 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: Wait when you said home to New Mexico. 289 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:20,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, I grew up in Albuqerque. 290 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 2: So you went back there, you got clean. 291 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I checked in and if I if I can 292 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 3: dry it out, and then I went back to Boston. 293 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 2: And how old were you, if you don't mind me asking, 294 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 2: around that time, that. 295 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 3: First time, so that was probably eighty eight, So sixty three, 296 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 3: seventy three, eighty three, I don't know, like twenty four 297 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 3: or twenty five. 298 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: You were young? 299 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 4: You were, Yeah. 300 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 3: I mean I went out there to you know, be 301 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 3: you know, a comedian right after college. But it's all 302 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 3: I wanted to do. So I went back to Boston 303 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 3: where you know, and I got clean, but I wasn't 304 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 3: really doing the thing. So I went back to Boston 305 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 3: and I auditioned for Barry Katz and I started, you know, 306 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 3: kind of trying to do open mics in Boston because 307 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 3: you know, I was I was, you know, I was 308 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 3: a non paid break or at the comedy store, but 309 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 3: you know, you didnt get a lot of stage time. 310 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I had chops, but I had experience. 311 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 3: And I've been hanging out with some you know, big 312 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 3: comics and I'd seen everybody. And I got a job 313 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 3: at that coffee shop, and I was sober I was 314 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 3: doing spots at catch Troizig Star, auditioned for this guy 315 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 3: Barry Katz, who's still a manager. He had a bunch 316 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 3: of rooms. And then like in eighty eight, and like 317 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 3: I guess it was August of eighty eight. I was 318 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 3: in a competition, but I was doing these. 319 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,599 Speaker 4: Horrible one nighters. By the way, like, well that was it. 320 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 2: I mean like you were saying you're bombing when you 321 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 2: say horrible. 322 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 4: No, the way it worked, I mean, if you're interested. 323 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 2: I am. 324 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: So I get back to Boston and I'm just doing 325 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 3: open mics and there's a few clubs. There's a scene 326 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 3: in Boston. It's real. 327 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 4: There's a lot of Boston comics and I'm doing open mics. 328 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 3: And there was a competition in eighty eight called the 329 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 3: WBC on Comedy Riot, and it was like a process 330 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 3: of elimination, and I came in second. 331 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 4: And from like then from. 332 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 3: Eighty eight, late in eighty eight, because I came in 333 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: second the competition. 334 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 4: I started working as a comic in eighty eight. 335 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 3: And the way the work worked in Boston is there 336 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 3: were a few clubs, a few bookers that booked one 337 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 3: night ers. So these were comedy shows that you know discos, hotel, ballrooms, hotel, 338 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 3: you know, conference rooms, small bars like they would just 339 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 3: satellite gigs that would be booked through these agencies and 340 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 3: you'd drive anywhere from like a half hour to three 341 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 3: hours to five hours anywhere in New England to do 342 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 3: these one nighters and you'd go get a map and 343 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 3: you'd usually open for a headliner who came in to 344 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 3: do So that's how I started, is doing those one nighters. 345 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 3: And it was only a matter of time before I 346 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 3: started drinking and doing drugs again, about year and a half. 347 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 4: I was kind of every year and a half or so, 348 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 4: i'd get clean. 349 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 3: I'd go about year and a half without really doing 350 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 3: the work to stay sober, and then I'd ease back 351 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 3: into it. And it kind of went like that throughout 352 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 3: most of it. 353 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: When you say doing the work, like not going to 354 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: like the AA meetings or what have. 355 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 3: You, well I went for a bit, but I never 356 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 3: really got it. You know, if you're gonna do it 357 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 3: that way, you're gonna get it or you're not gonna 358 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 3: get it. The program, the way to use the program 359 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 3: in order to not do the thing that's you know, 360 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 3: making your life bad, Like you can go to meetings 361 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 3: and listen and kind of you know. 362 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 4: Absorb it. 363 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 3: But until I think you start to understand the ideas 364 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 3: for yourself, you don't really have any tools to not 365 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 3: drink like you know you or do drugs. You got 366 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 3: to sort of make phone calls to other people in 367 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 3: the room. 368 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 4: You got to go to the meetings and. 369 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 3: Keep it fresh, and you'll figure out how when you're 370 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 3: gonna use or you're gonna drink, to either go to 371 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 3: a meeting or make a phone call instead of doing 372 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: the drugs. 373 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 374 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 3: So that's tricky because you know you want to do 375 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 3: the drugs. 376 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: Like it's it's a definite pull. And by the way, 377 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to start cooking for us. Did you 378 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: eat breakfast yet today? 379 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: No? I waited too. I'm starving. 380 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 4: It's going to be good. There's no way it's not 381 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 4: gonna be good. 382 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 2: Well almost. You make it simple, just beyond burger. Do 383 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: you need oil when you do it? 384 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah? You want me to turn this off? 385 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: Yep. I want to see you cook. Do you cook 386 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: on electric or no? 387 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 4: I got a guess of yeah, I have you do? Yeah. 388 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 2: But here in the studio, everyone complains about this electric store. 389 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't like electrics are sort of hard to control. 390 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I cook all the time because I I don't well, 391 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 3: not not just because I'm vegan. I've been cooking a 392 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 3: long time anyways, ever since I had a kitchen that 393 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 3: was functional. I cook because, like, if I go to 394 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 3: a restaurant, you don't know what you're gonna get. 395 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 4: Sometimes it's not that good, and I can I have this. 396 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 3: I'm able to cook and I can follow recipes, so 397 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 3: if I can make it better, why not cook? But 398 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 3: the only problem with that is you got to make 399 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 3: room for restaurants because if you cook all the time, 400 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 3: that means you got to clean up all the time. 401 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 3: That means you gotta you know, you know, keep your 402 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 3: kitchen full. There's good reasons. 403 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 4: To go out. 404 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 405 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: I used to always say, like as a single person, 406 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: I always else it was actually cheaper to eat out. 407 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 4: More than That's why I. 408 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 2: Even I think, what was it Thanksgiving? I think the 409 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 2: other day I was like. 410 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: Sometimes, especially now, the groceries are so expensive. Yeah, I'm like, 411 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: is it worth it financially to cook the meal or 412 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: to to get it out? I know for Thanksgiving, I 413 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: just did a seafood platter I just went and got 414 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: crab legs, yeah, lobster and some potatoes and called it 415 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: a day. And it was you know, cooking seafood is 416 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: like nothing, pretty easy. You just boil it and you're done. 417 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. 418 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 3: For Thanksgiving, I usually go to my mother's in Florida 419 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 3: and cook for twenty people. 420 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 2: You cook, I do the whole You do. Oh, I would. 421 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 3: Love like I've got a system, man, Like I did 422 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 3: it this time, this first time I've gone back. Is 423 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 3: a vegan, so I had to figure out how to 424 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 3: do that, you know, for myself. 425 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, but anyone else in the family vegan. 426 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I have a cousin. 427 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,239 Speaker 3: But it was pretty easy because all the sides can 428 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 3: be vegan outside of the turkey and the stuffing and 429 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 3: if you're gonna make turkey gravy. But I actually try 430 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 3: to make a vegan gravy which worked out pretty well, 431 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 3: and all the sides. So I made turkey stuffing, cranberry 432 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 3: sauce that's vegan. I made mashed potatoes with olive oil, rosemary, garlic. 433 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 3: I did stream beans, I did Brussels sprouts, I did yams. 434 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 4: All that can make vegan. 435 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: Now are you are you still comfortable touching me like 436 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: when you had the model. 437 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 3: Care like, I'm not like it wasn't really ethical. The 438 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 3: reason I did. I ate a lot of meat like 439 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 3: I had for years. 440 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 4: I had this. 441 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 3: Smoker that they gave me, and I was smoking briskets 442 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 3: and you know, chickens and just you know, eating a 443 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 3: lot of fish. 444 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 4: And then I don't know, I got smoked the fish 445 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 4: I try. I have smoked fish, Is it good? 446 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 3: It was okay to do, like juice style fish because 447 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 3: you know, I'm Jewish, I. 448 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 4: Grew up with it. 449 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 3: But you know, those smoke like you can smoke sable fish, 450 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 3: which is a black cod. It takes time, and you 451 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 3: know sometimes like there's certain types of food that are 452 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 3: better made by people who know how to do it, 453 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 3: like you know, like Indian food, you know you better 454 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 3: I'll find in a good Indian place and trying to 455 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 3: manage those spices. But I got a good recipe for 456 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 3: china masala that I. 457 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: Make now really, yeah, you call it china massa. I 458 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: love te Tika masala. 459 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 3: Tika masaut well, chaina is the chickpeas so tika is 460 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 3: chicken right, or make it with meat? 461 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 4: The chauina is uh, it's just chickpeas. 462 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 2: Did you make it from scratch? 463 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I like it. I'll cook for 464 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 4: the week, man, I mean I like it. 465 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 3: Like I got brown rice at home right now, and 466 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 3: then like just have that for a base, I get 467 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 3: ko kalifar or whatever. And then you know, for proteins, 468 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 3: I've been air frying tempe which is great. Tempe is 469 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 3: it's like a soy it's made from soy beans from 470 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 3: men and toy beans or these are pretty good. 471 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 4: I'll eat these. 472 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 3: Sometimes I'll do air fried tofu beans and rice some 473 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 3: different kinds, and I'll do uh, you know, I'm kind 474 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 3: of doing a macro thing. These be this restaurant in 475 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 3: New York called Angelica Kitchen, which was really the sort 476 00:19:59,200 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 3: of the. 477 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 4: First kind of macro macro What does that mean. 478 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 3: Well, it's a system of eating a vegan where you know, 479 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 3: you get all these different things to balance your food. 480 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 3: So usually there's a grain, a bean of some kind 481 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 3: a protein, and then there's a vegetable and maybe some 482 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 3: fermented stuff. And she used to, you know, do seaweed 483 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 3: salad too, So like you make a bowl of that, 484 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 3: so you get everything you need. 485 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 2: And then when you say protein like you would just. 486 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 3: Do like a usually for there it was Tempe or 487 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 3: Tofu or something like. There's not a or Satan. There's 488 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 3: not a ton of you know, vegan protein is you 489 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 3: really get it from the vegetables. But you know, Tempe, 490 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 3: Tofu and Satan. 491 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: Left off with you being sober for a year and 492 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: a half and then you took a nose dive back. 493 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so I was in Boston right and you know, 494 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,959 Speaker 3: doing the one nighters and yeah, eventually I started drinking 495 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 3: using drugs again, but then I was going then what happened? 496 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 4: Is? 497 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 2: I just have one question for you. Drinking and doing 498 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 2: the drugs. 499 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: Was it an every day pull or was it something 500 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: bad happened and then you wanted to do it. 501 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 3: No, it's just part of my life, you know, smoking 502 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 3: weed every day, you know, drinking at night and doing 503 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 3: you know blow occasionally. You know, I wasn't a daily blow, dude. 504 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 4: That's a big expense. 505 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 3: But you know, in Boston we used to be able 506 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 3: to drink for free at Catcherizing Star. So you go 507 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 3: do the one nighters and then you race back to 508 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,719 Speaker 3: Boston to get in on you know, the free blooze 509 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 3: at night. 510 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 4: So it was. It was pretty regular. 511 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 3: But in eighty nine, you know, I was you know, 512 00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 3: a lot of the people I started with were starting 513 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 3: to break, you know a little bit, and a lot 514 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 3: of them moved to LA. 515 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 4: Like Dave Cross and that crew. 516 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 3: They were going to do sketch comedy and they came 517 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 3: out here to make Mister Show eventually, and I was like, 518 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not a collaborative person on a comic. 519 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 4: So I moved to New York in eighty nine, and yeah, 520 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 4: I'd gotten sober again. 521 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 3: And I got to New York and I was on 522 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 3: the Lower East Side and I was trying to break 523 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 3: into the clubs and doing, you know, wandering around New 524 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 3: York a lot. And I lived right on a street 525 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 3: I was just full of heroin junkies. 526 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 4: Like it was before New York cleaned up. 527 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 3: And there was a doorway like right next to my 528 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 3: house where these junkies would line up like it was 529 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 3: a movie theater to get dope in the morning. And 530 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 3: it was so sad because I'd see them every day 531 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 3: and I was sober, yeah, and you know, I would 532 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 3: be like, man, that's horrible, what a horrible life. And 533 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 3: that went on for about a year and a half 534 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 3: and something turned in my head. I'm like, wow, I 535 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 3: wonder what it's like. No, yeah, it's right next door, 536 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 3: you know what I mean. 537 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: The heroin junkies in New York when I was a 538 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: little kid in up here, and I'd be like, uh, well, no, 539 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: if I go back now, I see them, but I 540 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: could recognize them more. But when I was a kid, 541 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: my parents would always be like, this what happens if 542 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: you try to smoke cigarettes. 543 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 2: This is where you end up. 544 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: And you'd be like, okay, never do cigarettes. But they'd 545 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: be like that was a doctor and he had a 546 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: family and he lost his whole family. 547 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 4: You'd be like wow, So we just think scared straight. 548 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 2: Scared straight. 549 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: I think my twin out of four kids, was the 550 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: only want to try weed at like maybe seventeen. But 551 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: the rest of us are pretty scared straight from those 552 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: like this person had a whole life and lost it, 553 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: you know, and you see them like kind of you know, 554 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: a little balancing act, and you'd be like. 555 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, there was a lot of the methadone that 556 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 3: was like you'd see him wandering around, yes, well, well. 557 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 4: Thank god, Like when I did it, like in eighty nine, 558 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 4: or wait, what was it? 559 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 2: Did you end up trying it or not? 560 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, I eventually did. Yeah, I wouldn't try it. I didn't. 561 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 4: I didn't shoot or anything. 562 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 3: But it was at that time that was so clean 563 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 3: that a lot of people were snorting it. So I 564 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 3: remember I went over there after a year and a 565 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 3: half of watching these people. 566 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 2: And were you one hundred percent sober at. 567 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 4: The time or yeah, pretty sober? 568 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's your first comeback kind of. 569 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 3: I mean I might have been drinking a little bit, 570 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 3: but I remember buying it and then going in my 571 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 3: house and snorting it and not really know any like, 572 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 3: and I just got sick and I was like sweaty, 573 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 3: and I kind of passed out, fell asleep, and I'm like, 574 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 3: this is not for me, thank. 575 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: God, thank god it was. 576 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 4: I was a go fast guy like coke and booze. 577 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 578 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, the sort of like nodding out thing was not 579 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 3: my not my bag. So he got it didn't stick. Yeah. 580 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: Do you ever think, like what would have happened had 581 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 1: that like geez, your life would have been way different, right. 582 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, there's there's certain I guess miracles or 583 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 3: just you know, good luck. 584 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 4: I always had a fairly healthy fear of drugs. 585 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 3: But there were times in my life, you know, even 586 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 3: when I was doing them, you know, I'd had some 587 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 3: sort of idea because I grew up like idealizing, idolizing druggies, 588 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 3: you know, like Keith Richards and William Burrows, many of 589 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 3: these writers you can be kowski whoever, the beat necks. 590 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 3: I thought that was like how you did it. That's 591 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 3: what being an artist was about. I had romanticize cigarettes, drugs, booze. 592 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 3: But I always was afraid that if I lost my mind, 593 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 3: I would have to like pull out. And when I 594 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 3: was in LA and I lost my mind, I kind 595 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 3: of that was. That was as far out as. 596 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: I really can you say you lost your mind, like 597 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: you had a real meltdown, like where you're like, No. 598 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 3: I had cocaine psychosis. It took like a year and 599 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 3: a half to get rid of it. 600 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 2: Okay, I don't understand what that means. 601 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 3: It just means you like either through lack of sleep 602 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 3: or it's I think it was primarily lack of sleep. 603 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 3: Like people who do meth now lose their mind pretty 604 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 3: for real, pretty quickly with this meth. But with me, 605 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 3: it was just because I was sleep deprived, and eventually 606 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 3: you get a little psychotic, you know, you start you know, 607 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 3: seeing like you know, I, well, I got very mystically. 608 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 4: Paranoid, do you know what I mean? Like I used 609 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 4: to do a joke about hearing voices in your head. 610 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, the joke was like, when you hear voices in 611 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 3: your head, it's never one, it's always And he spent 612 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 3: a lot of time trying to get them to pick 613 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 3: a fucking leader. 614 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 2: I had. 615 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: I had a meltdown when I was thirty and I 616 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: was like hallucinating, like and it was really just sleep deprivation, right, 617 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: But they ended up putting me in a hospital and 618 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: the doctors were like schizophrenic, bipolar PTSD, and I was like, uh, 619 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: let's just try giving me some sleep. 620 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, And it worked, and it worked. 621 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: I did get better and I completely came back to reality. 622 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: But of course, you know, I had to be strong 623 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: enough to you know, tell doctors that no, I'm not 624 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: I'm not going to take whatever drugs you're assigning for 625 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: a temporary. 626 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 3: Well yeah, And the thing about that kind of manic 627 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 3: break or psychotic break is that it does screw your 628 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 3: head up. So like what I realized that I had 629 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 3: created this evil sort of back you know, mystical backstory 630 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 3: to the comedy store, and I thought, you know, people 631 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 3: were like I had, like there was a big, big 632 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 3: ideas in my head. And it took like really a 633 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 3: couple of years to you know, get rid of those 634 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 3: hallucinations or that way of thinking. Yeah, yeah, but you know, 635 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 3: I eventually went back to the store. But anyway, so yeah, 636 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 3: so I tried the heroin and then I realized, like, 637 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 3: you know, I got to get out of here. And 638 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 3: I'd been with a woman for a while and then 639 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 3: we broke up and she moved to San Francisco. So 640 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 3: I just like, not unlike when I left New York. 641 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 4: I was just like, I got to get out of here. 642 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 3: So I gave my bed to the guy across the 643 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 3: hall who was sleeping on the floor, and I gave 644 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 3: my a lot of my stuff to the homeless people 645 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 3: that were selling things on the street down there, and 646 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 3: I just got in. 647 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 4: My car and I drove to San Francisco with no 648 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 4: plan and. 649 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 3: I had I remember, I was like, had a little 650 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 3: bit of that heroin and I was smoking it with 651 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 3: reef with weed. I drove like twenty two hours in 652 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: one stretch and I just showed up on this woman's 653 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 3: doorstep and I'm like, can. 654 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 4: I hang out, you know, and she took me back in. 655 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 3: And then I was in San Francisco and then I 656 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 3: shove it up again, okay, and then you know, I 657 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 3: started doing more comedy there. 658 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 4: That was a big, big change. It was a good 659 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 4: place to do comedy. 660 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 3: They had a very open mind about what you could 661 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 3: do on stage and how it worked. 662 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 4: And then I did a contest there. I did it twice. 663 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 4: I didn't think. 664 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 3: The first one was maybe ninety two or ninety three, 665 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 3: and I came I didn't farewell, and then again I 666 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 3: came in second in like ninety four, and now you know, 667 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 3: I was start in the middle. I started to headline 668 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 3: a little bit, and then I got a job on 669 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 3: television in New York, is all. 670 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: And then I just have one other question, When did 671 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: you realize that comedy was the path you were going 672 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: to choose. 673 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 4: I always wanted to be comic and I didn't see 674 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 4: any other thing to. 675 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 2: Do, Okay, since you like in high school. 676 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, since I was a kid really and I 677 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 3: never really had a plan. 678 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 4: B I never like, by the time I took that 679 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 4: TV gig. 680 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 3: I just I didn't want to do it because it 681 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 3: was not the kind of comedy I was doing. 682 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 4: You know. 683 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 3: I was kind of aggressive and you know, like shocking 684 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 3: and trying to you know, be very angry. 685 00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 4: And then but I was broke, you know, so I 686 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 4: got offered this TV job. 687 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 2: How'd you get offered it? 688 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 7: Like? 689 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 2: What happened? 690 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: Because you're in San France? Did you have an agent 691 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: at the time or something? 692 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 4: Not yet? Really how did that gig happen? I'm trying 693 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 4: to remember. 694 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 3: It was like it was Comedy Central very early on, 695 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 3: you know, and. 696 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 4: It was just it was like a clip show. It 697 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 4: was called Short Attention Spent Theater. 698 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 3: It had been hosted in different forms by John Stewart 699 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 3: and some other people. 700 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 4: And this is sort of the last version of it. 701 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember how the guy picked me, this 702 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 3: guy Robert Small, But it was basically me in this 703 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 3: fake vault where I was like supposedly showing clips of 704 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 3: comics and comic movies, but it's really all driven by 705 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 3: promotional stuff and they just wanted me. 706 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 4: It's like a VJ job, which was it? 707 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 3: Just I was devastated because it didn't serve my voice, 708 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 3: but I didn't see that I had a choice. 709 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was paying well. 710 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 4: I'd never made that kind of money. 711 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 3: So what I was doing for the first six months 712 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 3: of it, I would stay in San Francisco living with 713 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 3: that woman and that would go back to New York 714 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 3: for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and strip the show. 715 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 4: So you would do four shows. 716 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 3: At a time, and I fled back to San Francisco 717 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 3: for like five days and I fly back to New York. 718 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 4: That went on for six months. 719 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 3: They got me a subw at New York and then 720 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 3: eventually I moved back to New York in like the 721 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 3: mid nineties for the rest of that year, and I 722 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,959 Speaker 3: had to fight to get myself a writer. I had 723 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 3: to fight for us to do comedy bits because they 724 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 3: just wanted me to be a talking head. I was 725 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 3: already mad that I was doing this job. I was 726 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 3: a pain in the ass and like some people that 727 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 3: I worked with, you know, I think they thought I 728 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 3: was a complete asshole, and I probably was. I don't 729 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,719 Speaker 3: think I was. I don't remember the drugs being a 730 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 3: deal then. But I learned how to re prompter, I 731 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 3: learned how to be on TV. I got you know, 732 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 3: I got into the Union. You know, I got insurance, 733 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 3: I got all that stuff. But I hated it. I 734 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 3: hated every minute of it. But I knew that there 735 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 3: was a good thing to do it. 736 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, but didn't. 737 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 4: It didn't really take off. Its surfaced the network. 738 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 3: And then after that was done, I was in New 739 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 3: York and just leaning into comedy, and I started to 740 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 3: so I was in ninety four ninety five. And the 741 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 3: other thing about comedy at that time, if it's interesting 742 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 3: to you, is that this looks pretty good, right, it 743 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 3: looks really good. 744 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 4: Sure. 745 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 3: The other thing that was is that, like there was 746 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 3: a lot of basic cable television, right, so we were 747 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 3: all getting these gigs like Evening the Improv, Caroline's Comedy Hour, 748 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 3: Comedy on the Road, MTV half Hours, Like there was 749 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 3: all these little TV opportunities that ultimately didn't mean much, 750 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 3: but they were something. 751 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, So we were doing that stuff. 752 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 3: MTV always had some sort of comedy showcasing, so we. 753 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 4: Were kind of working towards that, trying to get on Letterman. 754 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 3: You know, Conan started in ninety four, and but you know, 755 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 3: I got back into the drugs and that go crazy. 756 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:06,719 Speaker 3: But yeah, like they that's when alternative comedy started, and 757 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 3: you know, we were doing this Lower east Side thing, 758 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 3: and you know, then it became like I started drinking again. 759 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 2: I married that woman, the woman in Sanford. 760 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I met her at my brother's wedding 761 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 3: and she knew I was kind of a wild card. 762 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 4: But we got married. 763 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 3: We you know, we were living down on you know, 764 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 3: Third Avenue and sixteenth and then the all comedy things 765 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 3: started and I started, you know, using coke again and drinking, 766 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 3: but I was trying to hide it and keep it 767 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 3: under control. And we got married and we moved out 768 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 3: to Queens and yeah, I don't know, like it was 769 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 3: grim because I'd done the TV thing, I was doing comedy. 770 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 3: Now married to this woman, she kind of wants to 771 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 3: have kids and stuff and I and I was not sober, 772 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 3: and I really sort of fell into a kind of 773 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 3: bitterness and a kind of resignation, like, all right, well, 774 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 3: I guess I'm not really going to make it in 775 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 3: show business. Maybe I can get a job on a 776 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 3: local TV show here I'd done some segments for and 777 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 3: just write it out in New York as one of 778 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 3: those people that kind of gets by. 779 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 4: And it was pretty devastating. 780 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: Well, like what drove that message to your mind? Was 781 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: it like you you felt like you weren't booking enough 782 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: comedy clubs or were you possibly bombing? Like what made 783 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: you stay? Well, maybe this is. 784 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 3: I wasn't bombing, but I was a specific type of 785 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 3: act and I wasn't really getting much traction. 786 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 4: Like everyone in you know, you know, like other comics 787 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 4: respected me. 788 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 3: People knew who I was, but you know, people thought 789 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 3: that I was doing a character or what. But I 790 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 3: was really angry and kind of like intense and it 791 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 3: wasn't really a character. I don't think I got into 792 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 3: comedy to entertain. I think it was like this is 793 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 3: how I'm going to you know, engage my voice, is 794 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 3: how I'm going to find myself. 795 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 4: How I'm going to say what I want to say. 796 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 3: Because for me, when I was growing up, comics I 797 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 3: always were able to kind of you know, make you know, 798 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 3: kind of make things understandable, disarm things. 799 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, he's year make you see things. 800 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 3: A different way. Like I thought, that's an art, you know, 801 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 3: so I want to do that. And the guys that 802 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 3: I looked up to were kind of, you know, said things. 803 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 3: So it was really like I don't think I ever 804 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 3: thought in terms of entertaining people. I'm not sure I 805 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 3: do now either. But so I wasn't trying to like, 806 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 3: you know, sell arenas or anything. I just thought that eventually, 807 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 3: because I was, you know, doing it my way, that 808 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 3: it would come around. So at that time I wasn't 809 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 3: coming around. And I started doing Conan like I did 810 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 3: Conan like three or four times a year. I became 811 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 3: a popular panel guess. 812 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 2: But at that time you were doubting yourself. 813 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, of course, because I just kept chipping away. 814 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 3: But I couldn't really sell tickets, and you know, I 815 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 3: would do you know, I do club work, but it 816 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 3: was you know, I go do the clubs, but it 817 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 3: would be you know, you weren't making a lot of money, yeah, 818 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 3: because you were an unknown headliner really and unless you 819 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 3: can draw people, which I never understood. I never I 820 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 3: wasn't particularly pleasant to club owners. 821 00:34:58,400 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 4: I never really thought about. 822 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 3: Like, I got to come figure out a way to 823 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 3: come back here. 824 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 4: I got to build these networks. 825 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 3: I was just sort of like, fuck you, I do 826 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 3: it this way, and you know, eventually people get it. 827 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and they just they didn't. 828 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 829 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 4: I mean that's you know, that's. 830 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 3: The long and short of it. But I'm trying to 831 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 3: think what eventually happened? 832 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 2: Did you so? But whereas your marriage going fine at 833 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 2: the time and all of that. 834 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 3: Or what happened was, uh, I'm so sorry here you 835 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 3: want to do that? 836 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 2: I definitely want to do it. 837 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: Sauce it so right now we're just for all the 838 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: listeners in the Japanese barbecue sauce. Mark has plated our 839 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: plates with brown rice vegetables. I just drowned my uh 840 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: beyond burger in Japanese barbecue sauce. 841 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 2: But I'm more excited about the tahini sauce because guys, 842 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 2: guess what. 843 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: I actually made a good job and I was nervous 844 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: about it. 845 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you put. 846 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 4: It on the vegetables, That's what I did. Yeah, I'm 847 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:58,320 Speaker 4: gonna make it. 848 00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 2: I'm gonna put them on. 849 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 4: The side saucy. 850 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 3: Sure sauces are fun. So the marriage. Yeah, So what 851 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 3: happened was in the middle of this sweaty, bitter period 852 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 3: where I'd given up and resigned myself to being you know, 853 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,320 Speaker 3: just an average you know, b room headliner and trying 854 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 3: to make do in New York to service this marriage. 855 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 3: I wasn't happy and woman came up to me at 856 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 3: a comedy club and she's gorgeous and she's like, you know, hey. 857 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 4: You're Mark Maren and I'm like yeah, and she goes, 858 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 4: what happened to you? Like? 859 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 3: And she was like a comic, she was a fan 860 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 3: and I'm like, you know, what are you talking about. 861 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 3: She's like, well, you would call fucked up and I'm like, 862 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 3: I guess and she's like, well, I can help you 863 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 3: gets over if you want to do it. And I'm like, 864 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,879 Speaker 3: what with aa or whatever? She's like yeah, and I'm 865 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 3: like and she's so pretty. So I'm like I just 866 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 3: wanted to do anything she wanted. So I started just 867 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 3: following her around and you know, she started taking me 868 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 3: to meetings and you know, we started having a thing, 869 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 3: and yep, the marriage fell apart, you know, because you know, 870 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 3: you know, I kind of wanted it to. But it 871 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 3: was kind of dramatic because she, you know, my wife 872 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 3: found out about her and I didn't know how it 873 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 3: was all going to go down, but it went down 874 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 3: pretty dramatically, like you know, changing the locks. I had 875 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 3: to find another place to live, I had to stay 876 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 3: sober through all that shit. There was the drama of 877 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 3: like being with this other woman and being like, you know, 878 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 3: I'm all right, my marriage is coming on, glue. 879 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 4: Are you are you in? Are you are we going 880 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 4: to do this or what? And she reluctantly. 881 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 3: She's younger than me, and she was like, I guess, 882 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 3: and so I guess, well that's enough. So yeah, the 883 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 3: marriage fell apart has sublet a place way downtown. It 884 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 3: was like a really chaotic time. But I was going 885 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 3: to meetings like a lot and I and that's when 886 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 3: I kind of like, you know, I was going like 887 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 3: every day at least once a day, and I locked 888 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 3: in with a bunch of people that were just getting 889 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,800 Speaker 3: sober and we're going to meetings all over the on 890 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 3: was taking me in meetings. We were going to meetings together. 891 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 3: And that was like ninety nine, and that's when it's stuck, 892 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 3: you know. So the first time I got sober was 893 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 3: in eighty eight, right, and then when it stuck was 894 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 3: ninety nine. So I was in and out for over 895 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 3: ten years. Wow, And now I got twenty four. But 896 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 3: for whatever happened with that marriage, because I ended up 897 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:19,479 Speaker 3: marrying that. 898 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 2: Girl, Oh my god, this is delicious. Between the Tahiti, 899 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:31,280 Speaker 2: the Barbue, sauce even absolutely delicious. 900 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:49,240 Speaker 4: We do, I get sober. 901 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 3: I'm with this woman who's stunning, and I'm just doing 902 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 3: the comedy. I'm trying, you know. Then I got a deal. 903 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 3: Like there's so many side stories. You know, I was 904 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 3: doing the festivals to Montreal, and I've already been doing 905 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 3: comedy at that point for you know, eighty eight. It 906 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 3: was like ninety ninety nine. So I've been at it 907 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 3: for ten years and I've had a lot of little. 908 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 4: TV appearances and some opportunities. 909 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 3: I got management and an agent because of that TV 910 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 3: show in Comedy Central, and you know, a big manager 911 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 3: and the agent that I was with was very good 912 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 3: at getting people deals. 913 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 4: I'm trying to think with that. I had a few deals. 914 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 2: But during this whole period, you're not taking any side jobs, 915 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 2: any side hustles, not. 916 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 3: Since all show business one way or the other. But 917 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 3: it was lean for a long time. And then when 918 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,720 Speaker 3: I did that TV show, I was making some money. 919 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 3: And then but then you know, I got divorced, so 920 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 3: there goes all that money. I wrote a book, I 921 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 3: did a one man show, you know, and I had 922 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 3: but I was not able to save much money because 923 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 3: it really it comes and goes in this game. I 924 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,839 Speaker 3: didn't get a big amount of money for the book deal, 925 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 3: but I wrote a book on a one man show 926 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 3: I did call Jerusalem Syndrome, and then that book came out. 927 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 3: But it's like a thirty thousand dollars deal, you know, 928 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,240 Speaker 3: with the idea that if it sells, you make more money. 929 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 3: But you know, it didn't really make any more money, 930 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 3: and then taxes takes some and so. But the book 931 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 3: comes out like within weeks or a month or so 932 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,919 Speaker 3: of nine to eleven. So we're I'm in New York, 933 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 3: I'm nine to eleven. I was out in Queen's I 934 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 3: remember seeing it on the computer on the AOL homepage, 935 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 3: you know, and just one of the towers was down 936 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:31,879 Speaker 3: and I went up to the roof and it was 937 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 3: like crazy, man, it was crazy. So you know, I saw, 938 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 3: you know, there was it wasn't a sound in the world, 939 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 3: just you know, I was on the roof. It was 940 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 3: a clear fall day, no cars, no planes, no nothing, 941 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 3: and you just saw the smoke coming off you know, 942 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 3: downtown and then you know, the second tower went down. 943 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 4: And it was it was like completely. 944 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 3: I can't even explain it, you know, entire world change, 945 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 3: and we had to deal with that horrendous attack and catastrophe. 946 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 3: As a city, everything just sort of stopped, you know, 947 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 3: and you couldn't go downtown and that hole was smoking. 948 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 3: Then the signs were going up, you know, missing people everywhere, 949 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 3: and the smell of the burning was in the city 950 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 3: for like what seemed like months. We didn't know when 951 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 3: we were going to start doing comedy again, but we 952 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 3: started not long after down at the comedy cellar a 953 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 3: few weeks, you know, trying to do it and people 954 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 3: were complete shock and they didn't know what to do. 955 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 3: Everyone was walking around totally you know, in trauma. 956 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 4: And you know, we started doing comedy. 957 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 3: It was pretty dicey because I was trying to be 958 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,359 Speaker 3: provocative and talk about the politics of things, and there 959 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 3: was like almost got in a fight with a marine 960 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 3: and the comedy club and it was just a crazy time. 961 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:52,959 Speaker 2: Yeah. 962 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 3: And the woman that I was with, she she that 963 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 3: day was going to work at a job she had downtown. 964 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 4: She got out downtown and it was raining. 965 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 3: Ash and then she had to walk all the way 966 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 3: up and I couldn't get touch with her all day. 967 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 3: But she it just broke her and she was like 968 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,439 Speaker 3: she left New York and she left and went home 969 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,919 Speaker 3: to Seattle, and I was there kind of writing out 970 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 3: the aftermath of nine to eleven. And then when she 971 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 3: finally you know, kind of pulled herself together, She's like, 972 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 3: I can't live in New York anymore and I want 973 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 3: to go to La. So we moved to La and 974 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 3: I had a deal at that time. I'd gotten a 975 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 3: deal with Fox Studios at the Montreal Festival, which was 976 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 3: a development deal. Gave me some money, gave me a cushion. 977 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 3: We moved set up shop here and you know, I 978 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,320 Speaker 3: sort of had to start over again. 979 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 4: The deal didn't really go anywhere. 980 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 3: You know. 981 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 4: I got set up with a writer, and. 982 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 3: I've had a few of those deals where you write 983 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,360 Speaker 3: a pilot script and it doesn't go anywhere, but you 984 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 3: make money on those. 985 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 986 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can bank some like serious cash and 987 00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 3: just like and I'm still weird about money, like I 988 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 3: don't spend I did much. 989 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, well I would imagine in this business, like 990 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 1: I actually I am a firm believer. 991 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 2: I'm living on a budget and I don't go over it. 992 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: You know, if I made one hundred thousand dollars in 993 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: a month, which I've never actually done so, you know, 994 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,600 Speaker 1: but you know, if I were, I would still live 995 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: on my you know, five thousand dollars month budget, and 996 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: I would just can the rest. I wouldn't even I 997 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: would not even be in my sight like that's I'm 998 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: strict with my budgets. 999 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 4: I don't know what it is like. I don't know 1000 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 4: if I was ever in it for the money. I'm 1001 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 4: happy because there were times I. 1002 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 3: Could get up to where we are now, but throughout 1003 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 3: this time, Look, I'm doing comedy. You know, I had 1004 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,440 Speaker 3: some deal money. And now I'm in La and I've 1005 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 3: got to re establish myself in La. I go back 1006 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 3: to the store, which I really haven't been at since 1007 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 3: I lost my mind. 1008 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 4: I get back in there primarily because. 1009 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 3: You know, there was a new booker there and I 1010 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 3: had sort of some sort of the mythic reputation because 1011 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 3: of the book I wrote. There's a chapter in Jerusalem 1012 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 3: Syndrome about the comedy store and about my experience with 1013 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,839 Speaker 3: Sam and about the drugs and everything and the craziness, 1014 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 3: and some young comics had read it and put me 1015 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 3: into this zone of like, yeah, that's you know. 1016 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 2: Maren, When did podcast enter? 1017 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 3: Like I you know, I still wasn't able to sell 1018 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 3: tickets as a comic, you know, but I was a 1019 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:21,879 Speaker 3: known guy. 1020 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 2: Do you say cel tickets like if they book you 1021 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:25,959 Speaker 2: to a club, like no one's showing up. 1022 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:26,919 Speaker 4: No one. 1023 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know I'm not getting door deals, okay, 1024 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 3: you know, I'm getting flat rates to do headlining on 1025 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,239 Speaker 3: weeks where they you know, don't have somebody there that's gonna. 1026 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,280 Speaker 4: You know, sell tickets. 1027 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 3: And you know, after the comedy boom in the eighties, 1028 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 3: there were still a lot of the guys around that 1029 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 3: sold tickets. But I never understood how they made so 1030 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 3: much money until you know, I was able to sell 1031 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,360 Speaker 3: tickets and get door deals. 1032 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,400 Speaker 4: It was very naive about the business. 1033 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,399 Speaker 2: Can you explain a door deal for everyone that doesn't 1034 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 2: know what it is? 1035 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 3: Well, door deals where you you know, you are confident 1036 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 3: that you'll sell out and you do a deal with 1037 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 3: the club where you get eighty percent of the door 1038 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 3: versus a bonus or whatever, and you know they can 1039 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 3: you sell drinks, but which is really the business they're in. 1040 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,200 Speaker 3: So if you're doing four shows at a club that 1041 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 3: sell out, you know, for whatever amount of money the 1042 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,359 Speaker 3: ticket is, and you're getting eighty percent. That's different than 1043 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 3: you know, getting twelve hundred for five shows. 1044 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:14,720 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. 1045 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 3: So you know, once you get to a certain level, 1046 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 3: you can do these door deal structures and make real 1047 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,120 Speaker 3: money in nightclubs if you sell out. 1048 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 4: Yeah. But I wasn't that guy. 1049 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 3: But I was doing comedy all the time, okay, And 1050 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 3: also like I did little parts and movies here and there. 1051 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 3: I did, you know, I was in almost famous for 1052 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,239 Speaker 3: a minute, and you know I was trying. 1053 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 4: To do that work. 1054 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,800 Speaker 3: But I never really had an agent for movies and TV. 1055 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:37,800 Speaker 3: You know, I had you know, there were agents that 1056 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,880 Speaker 3: did favors for my manager, but I never really committed 1057 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,000 Speaker 3: to acting because it's like. 1058 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,000 Speaker 4: Roland, I can't take that kind of rejection. 1059 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 3: Are you kidding me? It's sit in those audition rooms. 1060 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 3: Are you kidding me? There's no way that it just 1061 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 3: was not. I wanted to do it, but there's no 1062 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,120 Speaker 3: way that I could handle all that. 1063 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 2: So when you get when I see you on TV, now, 1064 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:57,320 Speaker 2: is it just like, hey. 1065 00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 4: We want Mark to do sometimes? Yeah? 1066 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 2: Or do you ever auditioned now? 1067 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 4: Well? No, I auditioned for Glow. 1068 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 3: I sent the tape, I mean I did a video 1069 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 3: and they picked me, but like I have some profile, 1070 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 3: like people know, well, that's we'll get to that. So 1071 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 3: two thousand and four, you know, I'm not making a 1072 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 3: living really that well at comedy. You know, I don't, 1073 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 3: you know, I can't. It's just very tentative. I bought 1074 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,200 Speaker 3: a house in Highland Park. I was with the woman, 1075 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 3: and then I get offered this radio job for Air 1076 00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 3: America Radio, the lefty talk radio network. 1077 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 4: And this was, you know, in response to. 1078 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,120 Speaker 3: You know, what was going to be the second term 1079 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 3: for you know, George Bush Junior w the you know, 1080 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,880 Speaker 3: Al Frank and a bunch of people is Wednesday, and 1081 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,720 Speaker 3: you know, they wanted me to be on this network 1082 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 3: out of New York and be on a morning show. 1083 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,360 Speaker 4: And I'd never really done radio. 1084 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1085 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 3: So this was really the sort of kind of cosmic 1086 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 3: choice that led to what became my future. And it 1087 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,399 Speaker 3: was that I got offered this job and it would 1088 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,759 Speaker 3: have been hard, Like I was in LA I would 1089 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 3: have to move to New York. 1090 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:12,800 Speaker 4: I had kept the apartment there, which. 1091 00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 2: Was good, oh the whole time. 1092 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, sublet it okay in Queens, and you know, I was, 1093 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 3: you know, I was with this woman, and it was 1094 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,840 Speaker 3: a difficult relationship because you know, when you get sober. 1095 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,560 Speaker 4: With somebody, you know, you're out of your mind. 1096 00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,279 Speaker 3: And you know, she was, you know, younger than me, 1097 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 3: and it was just a volatile, you know, relationship. But 1098 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,799 Speaker 3: I didn't see any choice but to take the gig 1099 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,400 Speaker 3: because the money was like solid, it was crazy. It 1100 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,359 Speaker 3: was almost like TV money because they had a lot 1101 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,799 Speaker 3: of money. So but it would be me going back 1102 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,840 Speaker 3: to New York, you know, to do morning radio and 1103 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:48,799 Speaker 3: it was political talk radio and we had a crunch 1104 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 3: a lot of news. It was like getting up at 1105 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,840 Speaker 3: three in the morning to get to the studio to 1106 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,279 Speaker 3: be on the air at six from six to nine 1107 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 3: every day. And I didn't really know what that would 1108 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 3: be like or whatever, but I did it. I flew back, 1109 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 3: and obviously we pushed strain on my marriage, but I 1110 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,320 Speaker 3: was getting up and we were doing a lot of 1111 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 3: comedy bits. 1112 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:07,640 Speaker 4: You know. 1113 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 3: It began with three of us, and then eventually one 1114 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,399 Speaker 3: of the people kind of got pushed out. I ended 1115 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 3: up becoming the driver of the show as opposed to 1116 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:18,480 Speaker 3: the comedic sidekick, you know. 1117 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:19,479 Speaker 4: I was sort of the lead. 1118 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 3: And it was it was incredible because it's live, you're 1119 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 3: in it and you know, I was doing my thing, 1120 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,280 Speaker 3: telling stories, throwing the com learned how to do radio 1121 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:30,919 Speaker 3: and I did. 1122 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 4: That for like a year and a half and you 1123 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:33,480 Speaker 4: loved it. 1124 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 3: I loved it, but you know, it became very difficult 1125 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:37,680 Speaker 3: to do stand up because you're, you know, when you're 1126 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,640 Speaker 3: getting up at three in the morning and doing I'm 1127 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 3: going to. 1128 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:41,520 Speaker 1: Say, are you just sleeping during the day, and then 1129 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,360 Speaker 1: doing your comedy going straight from comedy to radio. 1130 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 3: Well, I learned how to like get sleep at different times, 1131 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,720 Speaker 3: Like you know, I try to get four or five 1132 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 3: hours at night and then go to work and then 1133 00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 3: get a nap in during the day and try to 1134 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,400 Speaker 3: do a set or two and I do sets on weekends. 1135 00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,880 Speaker 3: But you're always fucked up when you do morning radio. 1136 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,319 Speaker 3: You like walking around like you've been in a pillow fight. 1137 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,000 Speaker 3: You're just like it's fuzzy and like, you know, you 1138 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,680 Speaker 3: can't quite you know, like reality it was. 1139 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,920 Speaker 4: It was fucked up. It's like you feel kind of 1140 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:10,840 Speaker 4: sick all the time. 1141 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 3: But I did it for a year and a half, 1142 00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,239 Speaker 3: and you know, it strained the marriage, and then I, 1143 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 3: you know, I got fired from Air America because they 1144 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 3: were going in a different direction. That's a whole other story. 1145 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,399 Speaker 3: That network and what happened there. It's crazy. But they 1146 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,680 Speaker 3: pushed us out and I came back to LA and 1147 00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 3: they were going to you know, someone was going to 1148 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,440 Speaker 3: try to get me an evening show, which they did 1149 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:32,799 Speaker 3: for a while. 1150 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,839 Speaker 4: But I get back and you know, my wife leaves me. 1151 00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,319 Speaker 3: Like I went out and did some shows on the 1152 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,000 Speaker 3: road with Henry Rollins and Jenia Groothel. I came back 1153 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:44,239 Speaker 3: with my wife, so like, you know, I want a 1154 00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,959 Speaker 3: trial separation, and I think she'd start up with another dude, 1155 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:48,680 Speaker 3: and you know. 1156 00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,480 Speaker 4: I was like, oh no, you know, I couldn't even 1157 00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:50,960 Speaker 4: fathom it. 1158 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,000 Speaker 3: So she leaves, and you know, trial separation is not 1159 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,759 Speaker 3: really a trial separation. So I was doing everything I 1160 00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,080 Speaker 3: could to make myself better, to go to you know, 1161 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 3: anger management all this shit. But she was out and 1162 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 3: that fucking leveled me. That like talk about hitting a 1163 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,680 Speaker 3: bottom in sobriety. So here I am, I'm off you know, 1164 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:14,160 Speaker 3: the radio. She leaves me and just hires these lawyers. 1165 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:15,719 Speaker 3: I don't even we don't even have kids, but she 1166 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,719 Speaker 3: just thought that she deserved the house and it was 1167 00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,760 Speaker 3: in my name, and like she just like the lawyers 1168 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,279 Speaker 3: just put me through hell and just basically almost bankrupted me. 1169 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,520 Speaker 1: And and then the whole time you're stay. 1170 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I did stay sober, and you know, comedy was 1171 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,120 Speaker 3: here and there, and. 1172 00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:40,720 Speaker 2: Like did you end up keeping the house? 1173 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 4: Yeah? 1174 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:49,000 Speaker 3: But I didn't really understand what divorce was when you 1175 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:50,920 Speaker 3: have money because I'd made money with the radio thing, 1176 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:56,600 Speaker 3: unshaved it and and she just. 1177 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,920 Speaker 4: Was killing me there. 1178 00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:02,799 Speaker 3: You know, you have to do that whole thing where 1179 00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:07,280 Speaker 3: you what do you call it that process to disclosure process? 1180 00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,760 Speaker 2: Did you like disclose all your money that assets the homes? 1181 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:12,080 Speaker 4: Right? 1182 00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 3: But it's a it's a racket because divorces don't end 1183 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,919 Speaker 3: until somebody gives up unless it's like, you know, it's 1184 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,040 Speaker 3: a state where you just split it, right, which California is. 1185 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:27,040 Speaker 4: But there's all these whoopholes. 1186 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,080 Speaker 3: And she hired a real animal to come after me, 1187 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 3: and I hired this little scrappy lawyer that a friend. 1188 00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:33,960 Speaker 4: Of mine, knude. 1189 00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,200 Speaker 3: But whoever, it's all right, whoever got the money, they're 1190 00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 3: going to finance everything. You're going to pay for their lawyer, 1191 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,239 Speaker 3: You're going to pay you know whatever, Like was. 1192 00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:47,920 Speaker 2: She making any money at the time or were you not? 1193 00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,960 Speaker 3: Really she's doing comedy and doing this and that, and 1194 00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 3: she used to be a model, but like she wasn't 1195 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,040 Speaker 3: really making any money, and that was fine. 1196 00:51:55,040 --> 00:52:00,000 Speaker 4: I didn't mind, you know, uh, you know, supporting the situation. 1197 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,080 Speaker 3: I helped her produce a one person show and she 1198 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,440 Speaker 3: eventually wrote a book. But the deal was is it 1199 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:11,240 Speaker 3: got very heated and bad, and it really broke my spirit, 1200 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:15,120 Speaker 3: like entirely, Like I was heartbroken, and I couldn't understand 1201 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,440 Speaker 3: why we couldn't do it fairly. And you know, in retrospect, 1202 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 3: she just had her mind on the house. She thought 1203 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,960 Speaker 3: that she deserved the house. She made it a house, 1204 00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,400 Speaker 3: and in retrospect, I think she was right, and I 1205 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,680 Speaker 3: could if I had understood things better, because I thought, like, 1206 00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:29,560 Speaker 3: you get half, I get half. 1207 00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:30,520 Speaker 4: That should be enough, right. 1208 00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,000 Speaker 3: But her lawyer then there like I didn't know about 1209 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,880 Speaker 3: spousal support. I didn't know about like you know, that 1210 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,120 Speaker 3: whole thing. And then her lawyer was trying to get 1211 00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,839 Speaker 3: the spousal support number up to where it wasn't it 1212 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,759 Speaker 3: usually is about the last year of marriage, what you made. 1213 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 3: But her lawyer was like, because of my job, they 1214 00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,920 Speaker 3: wanted to make it, you know, ark over five years, 1215 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,080 Speaker 3: you know, including their America years, which would have mean 1216 00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,080 Speaker 3: I would have been into her for like like eight 1217 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,239 Speaker 3: nine thousand a month, which I didn't have, and we 1218 00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:58,800 Speaker 3: ended up in court for no reason. 1219 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,320 Speaker 4: And that's it was a nightmare. 1220 00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,520 Speaker 3: But so I'm broke and I'm about to lose the 1221 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:08,280 Speaker 3: house because I'm trying to, you know, win this divorce 1222 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:09,520 Speaker 3: or at least make it fair. 1223 00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,960 Speaker 4: But you know, all my money's paying for a lawyer. 1224 00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,240 Speaker 4: It's paying for her lawyer. It's all my money. 1225 00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,560 Speaker 3: And then like what happened was air America kind of 1226 00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,640 Speaker 3: resurfaced and there was somebody within a America that was like, 1227 00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,759 Speaker 3: you know, we want to try a streaming video show, 1228 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,200 Speaker 3: which is before streaming. It was like before anybody the 1229 00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:33,080 Speaker 3: technology wasn't there. And I'm like, I don't care what 1230 00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,960 Speaker 3: it is. If you can give me what I was 1231 00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,319 Speaker 3: making before and give me like sixty K upfront so 1232 00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,399 Speaker 3: I can give it to this woman and stop this shit, 1233 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,520 Speaker 3: I'll take the job. And they were like okay, So 1234 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,480 Speaker 3: they gave me sixty K and I gave it to 1235 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:51,320 Speaker 3: her and I'm like we done, and she's like okay, yeah, 1236 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,880 Speaker 3: we're done. And then I got back on my feet 1237 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:59,279 Speaker 3: and that streaming job that nobody watched break Room Live 1238 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,920 Speaker 3: that last year, and I was barely able to function 1239 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:05,239 Speaker 3: because I was so shattered from the divorce. But you know, 1240 00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:06,520 Speaker 3: it got me back on my feet. And then I 1241 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,680 Speaker 3: got back to LA and this was two thousand and 1242 00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:14,880 Speaker 3: what eight, and I'm like, you know, just barely solvent, 1243 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,840 Speaker 3: and I didn't know how to Like I still wasn't 1244 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,080 Speaker 3: a big comic, and I didn't know what I was 1245 00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,000 Speaker 3: going to do, and I was pretty depressed, and I 1246 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,400 Speaker 3: didn't I had no idea, you know, what we're going 1247 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,120 Speaker 3: to do. But I actually had happened a little before that, 1248 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,439 Speaker 3: like when they fired us at Air America, they didn't 1249 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,000 Speaker 3: kick us out of the building because I had three 1250 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,040 Speaker 3: months on my contract. So me and my producer were like, 1251 00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:41,120 Speaker 3: there were people doing podcasts, basically just Corolla and like 1252 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,880 Speaker 3: Doug maybe Doug Benson and a few others, but it 1253 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,600 Speaker 3: wasn't a thing I said, can we figure this out? 1254 00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,080 Speaker 3: So at the beginning, you know, we were just like 1255 00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,399 Speaker 3: going into the studio at Air America after hours because 1256 00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,880 Speaker 3: we knew the tech, we'd let guests and you know, 1257 00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,160 Speaker 3: on the freight elevator. And so we did the first 1258 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,520 Speaker 3: dozen or so like that wow in secret and we 1259 00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,560 Speaker 3: you know, Apple was looking for people who had some 1260 00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:09,160 Speaker 3: kind of profile and they got behind it. So there 1261 00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:10,960 Speaker 3: was some banners, and you know, I had to figure 1262 00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,000 Speaker 3: out how to get more Twitter followers and like this 1263 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,320 Speaker 3: was all happening. That's why we were there at the beginning. 1264 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,240 Speaker 3: So I had to figure out how to get Twitter 1265 00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:19,480 Speaker 3: followers and how to get attention. 1266 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:20,800 Speaker 4: So I was booking. 1267 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,200 Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't the show that it is now, 1268 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,359 Speaker 3: but guests would come on and some of them would 1269 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,200 Speaker 3: get press, and then it started to sort of build 1270 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,640 Speaker 3: like that. And then I got back out to LA 1271 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:32,080 Speaker 3: and I'm like, well, what are we going to do? 1272 00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,200 Speaker 3: I got to figure out how to do it here. 1273 00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,239 Speaker 3: So I reached out to Jesse Thorn, who was a 1274 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:41,440 Speaker 3: pretty early adapter to podcasting. He was a radio gut too, 1275 00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,399 Speaker 3: and he told me which MIC's to get and how 1276 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,600 Speaker 3: to hook him up. And I stole a mixer from 1277 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,920 Speaker 3: Air America, like this little blue mixer, you know, and 1278 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,120 Speaker 3: I set that up in my garage and I was 1279 00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:53,960 Speaker 3: running the mics through the mixer right into my laptop 1280 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,839 Speaker 3: and I just had and the garage wasn't even a thing, 1281 00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,400 Speaker 3: which is literally garbage in there and a table, and 1282 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,200 Speaker 3: I started talking to comics. So the whole beginning of 1283 00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,759 Speaker 3: the show is me basically bringing people in, you know, 1284 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,040 Speaker 3: to you know, apologize for being an asshole. 1285 00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:12,280 Speaker 2: Wow. 1286 00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,920 Speaker 3: So the entire style of what I do is based 1287 00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:32,319 Speaker 3: on me having people over to talk about me. And 1288 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,719 Speaker 3: at first there was like a third act but me 1289 00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,040 Speaker 3: and my producer Brenda McDonald, who is a brilliant guy 1290 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,600 Speaker 3: and still with me, and he had to do the 1291 00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,680 Speaker 3: show on the SI for years because he had another 1292 00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,000 Speaker 3: job where he made money. We couldn't make money at 1293 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,319 Speaker 3: the beginning. We had we had to put together like 1294 00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,440 Speaker 3: a donor thing. This is before Patreon. There was no Patreon, 1295 00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,160 Speaker 3: There was no Patreon, So we had to set up like, 1296 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,480 Speaker 3: you know, if people like our show, you know, you know, 1297 00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,760 Speaker 3: if you give us this monthly payment of like ten five, 1298 00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,719 Speaker 3: twenty five, we'll send you some T shirts or whatever. 1299 00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,200 Speaker 4: So I was in my house with five hundred envelopes. 1300 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,360 Speaker 3: I had a roommate at the time because I couldn't 1301 00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:11,080 Speaker 3: really at my own house. We're stuff in envelopes and 1302 00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,000 Speaker 3: we're trying to get this thing, trying to get like 1303 00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,520 Speaker 3: some income coming in and it was all pretty crazy. 1304 00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,080 Speaker 3: Then we started doing live ones. We created a pay site. 1305 00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:22,200 Speaker 3: We thought, well maybe if we do live ones and 1306 00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,400 Speaker 3: then offer them for sale, So we were doing that. 1307 00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:26,600 Speaker 3: There was no way to make money in podcasts. Yeah, 1308 00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:28,880 Speaker 3: if you wanted to keep building your audience. Yeah, because 1309 00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:30,960 Speaker 3: if you put a paywall up, then that's a real gamble. 1310 00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,280 Speaker 2: How are you going to get new peoplewall? 1311 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,640 Speaker 4: Well you could do, you know, in order to listen 1312 00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:36,240 Speaker 4: to the whole show. 1313 00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,440 Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, but there was only a handful of podcasters. 1314 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,920 Speaker 3: So what happens is, you know, I'm doing in my garage, 1315 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:45,640 Speaker 3: and there used to be a third act, which was 1316 00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,440 Speaker 3: a comedy act, and then it became just me talking 1317 00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:49,720 Speaker 3: up front and then doing guests. 1318 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,080 Speaker 4: We had one or two sponsors. 1319 00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,880 Speaker 3: It was like, you know, Adam and Eve Sex Toys 1320 00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,160 Speaker 3: and this coffee sponsor out of Wisconsin. 1321 00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:57,520 Speaker 2: And how did you get the sponsors? 1322 00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,760 Speaker 3: Well, I don't know at that time, I don't remember 1323 00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,080 Speaker 3: how we got those first two. The coffee sponsor was 1324 00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,520 Speaker 3: somebody who sponsored were the only sponsors for my streaming 1325 00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:06,920 Speaker 3: show that nobody watched, So I just carried them over 1326 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,160 Speaker 3: as a favor. They weren't paying me hardly anything. But 1327 00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,520 Speaker 3: they were sending me free coffee. Then Adam and Eve 1328 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,880 Speaker 3: had done a few podcasts. They were also I think 1329 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:15,920 Speaker 3: a radio advertiser. There was a time at the beginning 1330 00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,360 Speaker 3: where when it started to happen podcasts, like radio ad 1331 00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,760 Speaker 3: consultants were selling the podcasts. So we had audible sex toys, 1332 00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:24,720 Speaker 3: Adam and Eve. We had the coffee sponsor. But that 1333 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,360 Speaker 3: was really it, and it wasn't enough to make it real, 1334 00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:29,640 Speaker 3: you know, kitting and the numbers were what they were, 1335 00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:31,600 Speaker 3: and no one knew about podcasts. 1336 00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,120 Speaker 4: So there was just a small crew of us, and 1337 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,920 Speaker 4: we were all sort of in touch, you know. 1338 00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,760 Speaker 3: Rogan came a little after me, the nerdous Chris hardwickers 1339 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:44,120 Speaker 3: around Corolla. Jay Moore had a show, Jimmy Pardo, Kevin 1340 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:48,680 Speaker 3: Smith had his network at the time, Jimmy Dore. There 1341 00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,040 Speaker 3: was like a handful of cats who were like, you know, 1342 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,200 Speaker 3: chipping away at it. And then it kind of like, 1343 00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,560 Speaker 3: you know, I started to get more press for the podcast, 1344 00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:58,680 Speaker 3: and you know, because of guests and a lot of 1345 00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:00,240 Speaker 3: the kind of entertain. 1346 00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,840 Speaker 4: Journalism, I was doing their job for them. 1347 00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,200 Speaker 3: So they'd always refer to what Guess would say on 1348 00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:09,320 Speaker 3: my show, and you know, and articles about it, and 1349 00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,240 Speaker 3: then the profile of the guests started to get bigger. 1350 00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,800 Speaker 3: Robin Williams, you know, Ben Stiller, Conan, these people were 1351 00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:15,480 Speaker 3: coming to my house. 1352 00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,640 Speaker 1: But that's what I was gonna I wanted to know, like, 1353 00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,840 Speaker 1: these people are coming to your house, like yeah, and 1354 00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,080 Speaker 1: you were just like, this is it like Barack Obama 1355 00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:25,280 Speaker 1: sitting in your garage? 1356 00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,960 Speaker 4: Like by that time, the garage was pretty cool, you. 1357 00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:29,720 Speaker 2: Know, like it was like I want to see it 1358 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:30,120 Speaker 2: so bad. 1359 00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,040 Speaker 4: Okay, well that one that garage is gone. I'm in 1360 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:34,240 Speaker 4: a new place, okay. 1361 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,560 Speaker 3: But it was full of my whole life books, you know, 1362 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:41,360 Speaker 3: art things, guitar like it was this beautiful like, you know, 1363 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,640 Speaker 3: kind of like it was. I wouldn't call it a 1364 00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,520 Speaker 3: man cave, but it looked more like like a library 1365 00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,640 Speaker 3: in a museum. It was crazy by that point. But 1366 00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,800 Speaker 3: at the beginning, Brendan and I our only commitment was, 1367 00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:54,800 Speaker 3: you know, we're going to do a new show every 1368 00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,520 Speaker 3: Monday and Thursday, no matter what. And we've done that 1369 00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:02,840 Speaker 3: since two thousand and nine. Wow, and uh, you know, 1370 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,640 Speaker 3: it's been crazy. So it started to build up steam, 1371 01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,960 Speaker 3: and then podcasts started to get more attention, and then 1372 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:09,960 Speaker 3: more people started getting into it, and then you know, 1373 01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,920 Speaker 3: networks were starting, and then a guy Jeff Ulrich created 1374 01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:18,280 Speaker 3: a a advertising interface that would link advertisers with podcasts. 1375 01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:20,520 Speaker 3: So some of the you know, and then the radio 1376 01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,240 Speaker 3: people who were kind of glimbing on podcasts, they kind 1377 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:24,680 Speaker 3: of fell back a little bit. 1378 01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:26,560 Speaker 4: And then all of a sudden, you know, there was 1379 01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,640 Speaker 4: a real game to it, you know, and then there. 1380 01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:32,400 Speaker 3: Was became a little higher profile, and we all were 1381 01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,320 Speaker 3: kind of a community at the beginning, and then it 1382 01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,000 Speaker 3: just kind of now, look at it. 1383 01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,520 Speaker 4: You know, we were there. You know, people say like, 1384 01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,480 Speaker 4: look what you did. I'm like, it's good and bad. 1385 01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,360 Speaker 2: I guess you know, why did you say bad? 1386 01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,600 Speaker 4: Well, it became like this thing. It became sort of 1387 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:47,880 Speaker 4: like anything else. 1388 01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,320 Speaker 3: So like everybody thought, you know, I really think that 1389 01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,440 Speaker 3: I enabled people to think like, oh that guy could 1390 01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:52,640 Speaker 3: do it. 1391 01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:54,880 Speaker 4: I could do it. Yeah, you know, and and then 1392 01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:55,400 Speaker 4: it came it. 1393 01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,800 Speaker 3: Became very glutted and everybody who was trying them and 1394 01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,000 Speaker 3: then you know, people would last a week or two weeks, 1395 01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,280 Speaker 3: and then then there was like you know, kind of 1396 01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:07,600 Speaker 3: predatory uh kind of what do you trade shows where 1397 01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,360 Speaker 3: they you know, they asked me to speak at one. 1398 01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:11,840 Speaker 4: I didn't really wasn't realize what it was. 1399 01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,560 Speaker 3: But it was a radio consultant who realized that podcasting 1400 01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:16,320 Speaker 3: was a racket and they could convince a bunch of 1401 01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:18,560 Speaker 3: people that they could sell him the equipment, they could 1402 01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,360 Speaker 3: show me how to do that. So like they kind 1403 01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,400 Speaker 3: of bring people in in almost like a motivational speaker way, 1404 01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:24,360 Speaker 3: like anybody can. 1405 01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,920 Speaker 4: Do this, get in it, you know, and it kind 1406 01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:28,760 Speaker 4: of it kind of blew up. I mean no, in 1407 01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:30,840 Speaker 4: a bad way in that like eventually. 1408 01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,080 Speaker 3: Brendan and I, because of what we do and how 1409 01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:38,000 Speaker 3: we do it, are very kind of you know, we're workaholics, 1410 01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,360 Speaker 3: and he's very sort of specific about how he does audio. 1411 01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,480 Speaker 3: He's an audio producer and we're still only audio and 1412 01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:47,400 Speaker 3: that was what we set out to do. And he 1413 01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:48,720 Speaker 3: spends a lot of time doing what he does. 1414 01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:49,440 Speaker 4: I do what I do. 1415 01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:54,400 Speaker 3: But as the businessess kind of grew, it's only a 1416 01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:56,840 Speaker 3: bad thing in that, you know, everyone has a podcast. 1417 01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:57,720 Speaker 2: It's like a joke. 1418 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, and then the bigger enterprises. 1419 01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:05,240 Speaker 3: Got involved and now you know there's yeah, you know, Amazon, 1420 01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:08,480 Speaker 3: you know, Spotify, all these It just became this huge 1421 01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:12,440 Speaker 3: business where before it was just, you know, pretty scrappy. 1422 01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think people, you know, yeah, people really 1423 01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:19,440 Speaker 1: like this, even if you look at social media, like 1424 01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:23,000 Speaker 1: I've talked to influencers, like, I think people or the 1425 01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:27,480 Speaker 1: audience really liked the scrappy underground versus the commercialized. And 1426 01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:31,439 Speaker 1: I could see what you're saying with podcasts becoming so commercialized. 1427 01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:31,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. 1428 01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,200 Speaker 1: But even also like when you see someone like yourself 1429 01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,400 Speaker 1: of me being a new podcaster, it's like I have 1430 01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,160 Speaker 1: to be reminded continually all the time, like do you 1431 01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:42,720 Speaker 1: know how long this person has been doing this? Like 1432 01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:47,280 Speaker 1: I was with the president of iHeart Radio and he 1433 01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:49,640 Speaker 1: was like, my number one podcast has been around for 1434 01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,400 Speaker 1: like thirty years, Colleen, And I'm like what He's like, 1435 01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,960 Speaker 1: remember this always it's gonna take a long time. And 1436 01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,440 Speaker 1: I like that you talk about it because in our 1437 01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:02,640 Speaker 1: ages like, oh, you could become a famous person, you 1438 01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:04,840 Speaker 1: could have a lot of money overnight, and it's really 1439 01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:06,200 Speaker 1: just a marketing gimmick. 1440 01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,480 Speaker 2: But the reality is it took work. 1441 01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:11,560 Speaker 4: And also it was never like that for me. I 1442 01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,480 Speaker 4: don't know how these people do it now. 1443 01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,320 Speaker 3: I can't live in that world. In terms of being 1444 01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,320 Speaker 3: a content provider looking for clips you know, and playing 1445 01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,600 Speaker 3: that game where you're just like these guys who are 1446 01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,360 Speaker 3: just dumping stuff three four times a day, trying to build, 1447 01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,680 Speaker 3: you know, an empire based on you know, whatever it 1448 01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:32,760 Speaker 3: is their racket is. 1449 01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:34,680 Speaker 4: You know, I get all that, but we're kind of 1450 01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:36,240 Speaker 4: at school and that. 1451 01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, we've been doing it a long time, but we 1452 01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:43,120 Speaker 3: were fortunate in that my cosmic timing and my particular 1453 01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:47,240 Speaker 3: skill set, you know, enabled me to seize this moment 1454 01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,160 Speaker 3: without having any real plan in place. 1455 01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,600 Speaker 4: There was no way to make money at the beginning. 1456 01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, this just wasn't It seems like all of your 1457 01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:59,360 Speaker 1: choices though never from what I understand outside of the 1458 01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:04,160 Speaker 1: divorce situation, never really Money wasn't really a driving motivator 1459 01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:04,400 Speaker 1: for you. 1460 01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:06,200 Speaker 2: It seems like you're no, like it was. 1461 01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:06,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. 1462 01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:08,880 Speaker 3: I don't know what it was, but it was a 1463 01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:12,040 Speaker 3: sort of persistence and passion to do stand ups. So like, 1464 01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:14,360 Speaker 3: and I've had to deal with that too, Like I 1465 01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:16,560 Speaker 3: was an established stand up when I started the podcast, 1466 01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,680 Speaker 3: and now this podcast blows up and nobody really knows 1467 01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,040 Speaker 3: me as a stand up, And so we get people 1468 01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:23,760 Speaker 3: coming to the shows like we're here to support you. 1469 01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,440 Speaker 4: And I'm like, I know how to do this. You know, 1470 01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:31,280 Speaker 4: I'm glad you're here exactly right, right. So I had 1471 01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:31,840 Speaker 4: a real hard. 1472 01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:34,000 Speaker 3: Time with that being known as an interviewer versus a 1473 01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:35,600 Speaker 3: stand up, because I always want to be a stand up. 1474 01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, so that was like a dicey. 1475 01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:41,560 Speaker 3: It was hard for me in my brain to realize 1476 01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:45,760 Speaker 3: that I was becoming this interview guy or this conversation guy, 1477 01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,520 Speaker 3: which was great because you know, no one really does 1478 01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,600 Speaker 3: it like me, and I was developing something and now 1479 01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,200 Speaker 3: it's kind of established. But at the beginning, I'm like, 1480 01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,960 Speaker 3: I'm a comic. I'm just doing this, you know, because 1481 01:04:58,000 --> 01:04:59,840 Speaker 3: this is what you know. It's working out, you know, 1482 01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,120 Speaker 3: but I love it. I mean, I you know, it's 1483 01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,200 Speaker 3: also good for recovery in a way, you know, like 1484 01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:09,600 Speaker 3: the whole premise of of AA was one alcoholic talking 1485 01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:12,080 Speaker 3: to another to get you out of your head. So, like, 1486 01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,960 Speaker 3: you know, interviewing people is a big part of my 1487 01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,760 Speaker 3: social life is having these conversations. Yeah, with these people 1488 01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,000 Speaker 3: who I don't know, and they're fairly intimate and kind 1489 01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,200 Speaker 3: of very focused, and you know, I'm kind of all 1490 01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,080 Speaker 3: in and I'm just as nervous and anxious about doing 1491 01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,560 Speaker 3: them as I always was you know, this is like whatever, 1492 01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:30,200 Speaker 3: thirteen years in or however long. 1493 01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,760 Speaker 4: But I think that the timing of it was fortuitous 1494 01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:38,080 Speaker 4: and that you know, the business grew around us. 1495 01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:40,840 Speaker 3: There was a core community of podcasters and we all 1496 01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:43,960 Speaker 3: evolved together and we took you know, we you know, 1497 01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:47,400 Speaker 3: there was an issue with a patent troll that was 1498 01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:49,880 Speaker 3: a very complicated thing, that was a threat to podcasting, 1499 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:51,800 Speaker 3: and we you know, I remember, we had a big 1500 01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,680 Speaker 3: meeting about how to deal with it. So once the 1501 01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:57,600 Speaker 3: business started to expand and everyone found their footing, it 1502 01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,320 Speaker 3: all happened simultaneously. You know, I was there at the 1503 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,040 Speaker 3: beginning of I guess what would be modern podcasting. There 1504 01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:06,040 Speaker 3: were a few before it was kind of a thing, 1505 01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,560 Speaker 3: but it wasn't you know, a cultural phenomenon. 1506 01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:10,200 Speaker 4: So I came up with it. 1507 01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:11,840 Speaker 3: It built it, you know, I was one of the 1508 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:15,240 Speaker 3: you know, I don't know if OG is you know, 1509 01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:16,960 Speaker 3: I don't want to take any real credit, but I 1510 01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:21,960 Speaker 3: found the the conversation space at that time. In the 1511 01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,720 Speaker 3: way I did it was unique, so and it became 1512 01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,760 Speaker 3: kind of one of the pillars of modern podcasting. And 1513 01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:32,200 Speaker 3: I don't mind saying that, but it was all coincidental, 1514 01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:35,360 Speaker 3: but the quality remains, and you know, it really becomes 1515 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:36,880 Speaker 3: about like, well when are we going to stop? 1516 01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:37,240 Speaker 4: Dude? 1517 01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,000 Speaker 2: You know, like, oh yeah, keep going. But I do 1518 01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:40,840 Speaker 2: have one question. 1519 01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:44,800 Speaker 1: Were there any moments where there was just like almost 1520 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:48,720 Speaker 1: like an aha, or I can't believe that I you know, 1521 01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,440 Speaker 1: like I like, there are certain interviews where. 1522 01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:54,520 Speaker 2: I would be like, holy sh I can't believe this 1523 01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:57,720 Speaker 2: is me. You know what were those moments? 1524 01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:03,640 Speaker 4: Well, a sitting president was pretty bad. 1525 01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:05,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, how did you land that? 1526 01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,520 Speaker 3: But even before that, you know, because of my business, 1527 01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:12,120 Speaker 3: you know, talking to people like you know, Robin Williams 1528 01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:14,560 Speaker 3: and people like you know, big actors like and people 1529 01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:15,720 Speaker 3: would come to my house and be like, where the 1530 01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:17,920 Speaker 3: fuck am I kind of like here, I don't know 1531 01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,160 Speaker 3: where I am. I don't know how you found the studio. 1532 01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,960 Speaker 3: But but there were a lot of big performers. I 1533 01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,120 Speaker 3: was talking to some old guys. Sometimes I'd go to 1534 01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:28,480 Speaker 3: people's houses and do it. 1535 01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:30,080 Speaker 4: I was like, I'm all in. 1536 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:32,120 Speaker 3: So I talked to a lot of people that I 1537 01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:37,200 Speaker 3: thought were pretty impressive. But when when the president became. 1538 01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:39,880 Speaker 4: A thing that was crazy. 1539 01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:42,360 Speaker 1: I just want to know, like what that day was 1540 01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:44,920 Speaker 1: like it was like like I just I want you 1541 01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,440 Speaker 1: to paint me that picture of even also getting the 1542 01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:48,480 Speaker 1: interview that. 1543 01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:49,600 Speaker 4: Was like seven years in. 1544 01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:54,200 Speaker 3: Well, ultimately what happened was, you know, there was conversation 1545 01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:57,840 Speaker 3: earlier on this was it was in his last term, 1546 01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:01,200 Speaker 3: and there was some conversation in in the beginning of 1547 01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:03,560 Speaker 3: that term that maybe as vice president that Biden might 1548 01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:04,080 Speaker 3: want to do it. 1549 01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:06,720 Speaker 4: And you know, but we weren't really a political show. 1550 01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:07,240 Speaker 4: That's one thing. 1551 01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:09,240 Speaker 3: Coming out of political radio, which both me and my 1552 01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,480 Speaker 3: producer did, we were like, no politics, I'm not going 1553 01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,200 Speaker 3: to do it. So we detached from it completely and 1554 01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:18,400 Speaker 3: became this other show. You know, I've talked politics since 1555 01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,879 Speaker 3: then because when Trump was president, I'm was profoundly concerned 1556 01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:25,840 Speaker 3: and I'm still concerned, but it's difficult. It's primarily not 1557 01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:31,839 Speaker 3: that kind of dialogue. But someone in the president's office, 1558 01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:35,320 Speaker 3: someone in Obama's crew, thought it would be a good 1559 01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:38,560 Speaker 3: thing for him to do the podcast because it was 1560 01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:39,559 Speaker 3: his last term. 1561 01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:41,000 Speaker 4: It was the last year. 1562 01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:43,320 Speaker 3: You know, you don't want to be a lame duck. 1563 01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:45,560 Speaker 3: You know, he wanted to be relevant, and you know, 1564 01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:49,200 Speaker 3: they reached out and said let's do it, and you know, 1565 01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:53,200 Speaker 3: my producer, who's like, you know, a straight shooter, decent guy, 1566 01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:56,680 Speaker 3: real political dude. Like it's funny because the date they 1567 01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:59,680 Speaker 3: had wanted him to come, I was supposed to be 1568 01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,920 Speaker 3: on vacation. So I literally told my producer, I'm like, 1569 01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:04,240 Speaker 3: I don't know, man, I don't know if if I 1570 01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:07,080 Speaker 3: can do it. I'm supposed to be on vacation, freaking. 1571 01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:08,559 Speaker 2: Right. 1572 01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:10,640 Speaker 3: And then it turns out, like you know, it was 1573 01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:12,800 Speaker 3: booked like for the day that I got back, or 1574 01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,519 Speaker 3: the day or two days after I got back, and. 1575 01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,640 Speaker 4: I and I remember my producers are telling me, it's like, 1576 01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:18,880 Speaker 4: you know, I wouldn't. 1577 01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:22,439 Speaker 2: Have let you go, yeah, yeah, out of here. But 1578 01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:23,240 Speaker 2: you know, you talk to. 1579 01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:26,240 Speaker 3: Famous people enough, and I granted it's the President, but 1580 01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:28,680 Speaker 3: you know, people were just people, and you get a 1581 01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:30,680 Speaker 3: sense of people. I mean, I've done fifteen hundred of 1582 01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:31,080 Speaker 3: these things. 1583 01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:32,800 Speaker 2: Yeah have you really? 1584 01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:35,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're coming up on fifteen hundreds, and you know, 1585 01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:37,559 Speaker 3: I've talked to a lot of different kinds of people, 1586 01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:38,519 Speaker 3: but the President was a big deal. 1587 01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:40,920 Speaker 4: But the trick of it was, look, a lot of things. 1588 01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:44,479 Speaker 3: Had to happen for it to happen, but we were 1589 01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,959 Speaker 3: fairly specific that that It wasn't going to be political 1590 01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:48,600 Speaker 3: in the sense that, you know, this is going to 1591 01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,440 Speaker 3: be what we do. It's going to be a conversation 1592 01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:51,240 Speaker 3: about life. 1593 01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:51,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1594 01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:53,759 Speaker 4: So I was down in Hawaii. 1595 01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:55,679 Speaker 3: I read his book, and I wasn't really as nervous 1596 01:09:55,920 --> 01:10:00,160 Speaker 3: as you would think, you know. But but this my 1597 01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:04,800 Speaker 3: producer was brilliant in it all because, you know, he 1598 01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,040 Speaker 3: had to go out to my house. He lives in Brooklyn, 1599 01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:08,920 Speaker 3: So he flew out to the house so the Secret 1600 01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:10,519 Speaker 3: Service could do a sweet They had to figure out 1601 01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:11,680 Speaker 3: they had to come and figure out how to set 1602 01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:13,840 Speaker 3: up a parameter, how to get the president of the 1603 01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:17,280 Speaker 3: United States into this little neighborhood, into Highland Park, and. 1604 01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:18,240 Speaker 4: How to do it safely. 1605 01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:21,160 Speaker 3: So Brendan was there for that, and they were trying 1606 01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:23,160 Speaker 3: to figure out where they could put snipers and you know, 1607 01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:28,320 Speaker 3: how to make a perimeter, and and you know, the 1608 01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:30,280 Speaker 3: roof of the garage was not strong enough to. 1609 01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:30,919 Speaker 4: Hold the snipers. 1610 01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:32,640 Speaker 3: So we had to ask my neighbor Dennis, if we 1611 01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:34,000 Speaker 3: could put snipers on his roof. 1612 01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:34,920 Speaker 4: And he was thrilled. 1613 01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:40,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's retired, he's excited. And then they you know, 1614 01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:44,960 Speaker 3: they built they tented my driveway, so the motorcake park 1615 01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,160 Speaker 3: and they could come up, you know, without any sight 1616 01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:50,400 Speaker 3: lines and then walk into the back and come into 1617 01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:54,040 Speaker 3: the garage. And they'd set up this like like about 1618 01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,879 Speaker 3: a week before, they put this box in my spare bedroom, 1619 01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:59,920 Speaker 3: which was like hooked up to a special phone line, 1620 01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:04,120 Speaker 3: like in case all communications went down, they'd have communications. 1621 01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:06,559 Speaker 4: So that thing humming along was that was the most 1622 01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:08,200 Speaker 4: menacing part of the whole thing. 1623 01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:14,439 Speaker 3: And you know, so day of we'd set up a 1624 01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:19,120 Speaker 3: bunch of listening stations on the deck for people, like 1625 01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:20,439 Speaker 3: for his people to be out there. 1626 01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:26,519 Speaker 4: He didn't. He didn't he didn't uh need a pre interview. 1627 01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:29,120 Speaker 4: He didn't. He let us do whatever questions we wanted. 1628 01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:29,679 Speaker 4: He didn't. 1629 01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,000 Speaker 2: He didn't do like restrictions or anything. 1630 01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,240 Speaker 4: No what's the word I want? There was no screening 1631 01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:37,760 Speaker 4: of what we of the question? 1632 01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:39,680 Speaker 2: Do you ever let people do that? 1633 01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,120 Speaker 3: But it's the president, you know, but we we were 1634 01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:46,000 Speaker 3: kind of held on line. But like he was a 1635 01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:48,280 Speaker 3: intellectual guy. 1636 01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,639 Speaker 4: He carried himself. He wasn't like, you know, some whack job. 1637 01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:54,719 Speaker 3: You know those guys the presidents are pretty well managed, 1638 01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:58,680 Speaker 3: especially with press, but you know, Obama was like, you 1639 01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,920 Speaker 3: know whatever, and it was kind. 1640 01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:03,800 Speaker 4: Of intense, you know, because there was a lot of 1641 01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:04,559 Speaker 4: people around. 1642 01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,760 Speaker 3: You know, we're waiting for the president and like, look 1643 01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:11,759 Speaker 3: man like he had gone to school at Occidental briefly, 1644 01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:14,040 Speaker 3: so there was that connection. But there was also news 1645 01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:17,719 Speaker 3: that had broken, like literally within the last within that week, 1646 01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:22,200 Speaker 3: that guy shot all those people at that church, all 1647 01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,400 Speaker 3: those black people got shot by that little lunatic, racist 1648 01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:27,880 Speaker 3: white kid, and that was big, big thing. So we 1649 01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,160 Speaker 3: didn't even know if he was going to come, which 1650 01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:33,400 Speaker 3: we would have understood, yeah, but he was going to come. 1651 01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:36,000 Speaker 3: So we had to figure out how to talk about that. 1652 01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,680 Speaker 3: There was some you know, Supreme Court stuff coming down. 1653 01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,680 Speaker 3: There was a little bit of business that was unfolding 1654 01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:46,720 Speaker 3: that we needed to address politically and culturally, but the 1655 01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:48,360 Speaker 3: rest was going to be personal. And we had a 1656 01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,920 Speaker 3: strict we had an hour, so Brendan, you know, he 1657 01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:52,760 Speaker 3: had to like we had to figure it out. Usually 1658 01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:54,519 Speaker 3: I do, like you you know, I kind of wing it, 1659 01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,360 Speaker 3: but we had we had a tight hour and there 1660 01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:58,200 Speaker 3: was shit we need to get to. So he we 1661 01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:00,920 Speaker 3: made a structure so we would get to it. And 1662 01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:02,920 Speaker 3: we're all waiting around and you know, me and Brendan, 1663 01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:03,679 Speaker 3: I'm in the house. 1664 01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:05,920 Speaker 4: You know. Secret Service was funny because they came. 1665 01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,120 Speaker 3: By earlier with the dogs, the bomb dogs, and I 1666 01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:10,519 Speaker 3: got three cats, and I was like, look, man, you 1667 01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:13,839 Speaker 3: know I got these cats and they're in the bedroom. 1668 01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:16,240 Speaker 4: Is there any way you know, can you trust me 1669 01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:19,559 Speaker 4: on the bedroom because I want to die. I want 1670 01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,439 Speaker 4: the bomb dogs fuck with the cats. Did they Yeah? 1671 01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:29,120 Speaker 4: They did. So we're all waiting Secret Services. 1672 01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:32,519 Speaker 3: There's like fifteen people about and they're around, and they're 1673 01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:35,400 Speaker 3: on the perimeter. The snipers there watching the snipers walk up. 1674 01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:37,559 Speaker 3: They had closed off the streets. All the cars were. 1675 01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:38,200 Speaker 4: Off the streets. 1676 01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:40,920 Speaker 2: Streets well just but you know, they but just my. 1677 01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:43,680 Speaker 3: Street, the neighborhood. There couldn't be any park cars on 1678 01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,000 Speaker 3: the street. It's a little street on a little hill 1679 01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:48,920 Speaker 3: in Highland Park. But to his benefit, he didn't he 1680 01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,000 Speaker 3: was staying in Beverly Hills and he didn't take the 1681 01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:55,040 Speaker 3: motorcade through the city, which would have like fucked everything up. Yeah, 1682 01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:58,240 Speaker 3: but he was going to fly in on the helicopter, 1683 01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:01,000 Speaker 3: like on the Air Force two or whatever it is. 1684 01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:04,400 Speaker 3: And you know, I'm standing around, We're all standing around, 1685 01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:05,960 Speaker 3: and you know. 1686 01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:07,759 Speaker 4: I'm like, you know, let me know when he's close. 1687 01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:09,519 Speaker 3: And they're like, yeah, well, you know when he's twenty 1688 01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,160 Speaker 3: minutes out. And then we saw the helicopter, like the 1689 01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:15,040 Speaker 3: presidential helicopter with the Ospreys in front of it, and 1690 01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:17,120 Speaker 3: they were going to land at the Rose Bowl, which 1691 01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:19,519 Speaker 3: is like ten minutes away, and we saw him in 1692 01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:19,720 Speaker 3: the air. 1693 01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:23,320 Speaker 4: I'm like, all right, so he's he's close, you know. 1694 01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:25,599 Speaker 4: And then it was just nuts. Man. 1695 01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:29,439 Speaker 3: It was like, you know, the motorcades coming up and 1696 01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,320 Speaker 3: they come up my street, they park, and there's all 1697 01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:35,560 Speaker 3: these people coming up that like that tented thing, you know, 1698 01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:38,519 Speaker 3: his entourage, and I don't even see him and they're 1699 01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:40,439 Speaker 3: coming up to driving and now I just see all 1700 01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:42,479 Speaker 3: of a sudden, I see handle Mark and it's. 1701 01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:44,280 Speaker 4: Like Obama and I'm like, hey, mister president. 1702 01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:51,120 Speaker 2: And you know, that hadn't been a surreal moment totally. 1703 01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:54,080 Speaker 4: And my my, my, my producer. 1704 01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:55,840 Speaker 3: He's in a well, he's in a suit, and we're 1705 01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:58,320 Speaker 3: you know, it's just we're just hanging out waiting for 1706 01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:01,639 Speaker 3: the president and and uh, you know, I shake his hand, 1707 01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:04,280 Speaker 3: I say, I say, he goes to we We're gonna 1708 01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:05,760 Speaker 3: have a good time, I hope, so, you know. 1709 01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:08,760 Speaker 4: And we go in there and it was like it 1710 01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:09,559 Speaker 4: was intense. Man. 1711 01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,400 Speaker 3: You know, I had one Secret Service guy in there 1712 01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:13,639 Speaker 3: and he was behind me, so I didn't see him 1713 01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:14,960 Speaker 3: as Obama was there. 1714 01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:17,600 Speaker 4: I remember I asked him to nervous about this, and 1715 01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:19,439 Speaker 4: he said, if I was nervous about this, we'd all 1716 01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:20,000 Speaker 4: be in trouble. 1717 01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:21,360 Speaker 3: Oh. 1718 01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:23,080 Speaker 2: Bombay has like a cool sense of humor. 1719 01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:26,559 Speaker 1: But I love his poise, Like I love the way 1720 01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:29,479 Speaker 1: and I feel like he really processes his answers. 1721 01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:31,000 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, very deliberate. 1722 01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:33,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost like you've got to like I had 1723 01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,320 Speaker 3: to keep it moving because he can, you know, get 1724 01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:37,679 Speaker 3: he can talk, you know, and you gotta be careful, 1725 01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:39,559 Speaker 3: you on getting the weeds with politics because he can 1726 01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:40,800 Speaker 3: very deliberate. 1727 01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:41,920 Speaker 4: But he'll he'll go on for a while. 1728 01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:44,000 Speaker 3: And we only had an hour, so I keep it going, 1729 01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:46,519 Speaker 3: you know, and then we got you know, we got 1730 01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:50,519 Speaker 3: into the stuff that we needed to talk about. We 1731 01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:53,720 Speaker 3: talked about his life and you know, it got it 1732 01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:56,400 Speaker 3: was kind of blew up, not just because he was president, 1733 01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:01,080 Speaker 3: but because he used the N word, know, and like 1734 01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:02,960 Speaker 3: he made an example on. 1735 01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:04,720 Speaker 4: The podcast, like you know, racism. 1736 01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:08,639 Speaker 3: Racism isn't over just because people don't use the N word, 1737 01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:11,519 Speaker 3: but he said it and it was like, well, I 1738 01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:13,880 Speaker 3: didn't really notice it because you know, it's like as 1739 01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:15,200 Speaker 3: a comic, you hear a lot of things, but it 1740 01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:16,320 Speaker 3: didn't register to me. 1741 01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:18,720 Speaker 4: It's like, oh, this is going to be a huge deal. 1742 01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:21,439 Speaker 3: But my producer was like, this is going to be 1743 01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:24,240 Speaker 3: a huge like this is going to be crazy, and 1744 01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:25,320 Speaker 3: I'm like, what are you talking about? 1745 01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:29,960 Speaker 4: And you know, we only did a. 1746 01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:32,840 Speaker 3: Couple of interviews afterwards, my producer who was working for 1747 01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:35,840 Speaker 3: Chris Hayes on MSNBC at the time as well. We 1748 01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:38,599 Speaker 3: did an interview with Chris and I did Terry Gross 1749 01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:41,320 Speaker 3: on MPR. Those were the only two interviews because once 1750 01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:44,519 Speaker 3: we released it with that word in there, it blew up, 1751 01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:48,320 Speaker 3: like it was like global news, Like they were parked 1752 01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:49,920 Speaker 3: in front of my house, you know, how do you 1753 01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:51,960 Speaker 3: feel about you know, they want to know how I 1754 01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:52,600 Speaker 3: felt about it. 1755 01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:55,680 Speaker 4: It just became news. The right was like why does 1756 01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:57,320 Speaker 4: he get to use it? You know, all the shit. 1757 01:16:57,960 --> 01:17:02,760 Speaker 3: It was crazy, but my he managed it, like God 1758 01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:05,640 Speaker 3: damn Champ. He did the two interviews and no one 1759 01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:07,960 Speaker 3: else got near us, and that was it. They were 1760 01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,519 Speaker 3: in my driveway and I didn't deal with them. 1761 01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:11,519 Speaker 2: Wow, the news people. 1762 01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:12,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, wow. 1763 01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:15,400 Speaker 1: When you when you look back at your we're about 1764 01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:18,080 Speaker 1: to close up unfortunately, but when you look back at 1765 01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:25,559 Speaker 1: your life story, what would you say was your Well, 1766 01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:27,320 Speaker 1: I think you covered it, but what was that one 1767 01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:30,280 Speaker 1: milestone where you were like, I don't know if I. 1768 01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:30,680 Speaker 2: Could go on. 1769 01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:33,400 Speaker 4: I think we covered it, but just it happened all 1770 01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:33,680 Speaker 4: the time. 1771 01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:34,720 Speaker 2: It happened all the time. 1772 01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:37,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, because with comedy I saw my friends getting successful 1773 01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:39,479 Speaker 3: and I wasn't you know what am I doing? But 1774 01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:43,240 Speaker 3: it got to a certain point where you know, you 1775 01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:45,519 Speaker 3: don't really have a plan B, Like I never had 1776 01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:46,000 Speaker 3: a plan B. 1777 01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:48,040 Speaker 4: And it gets further and further away. 1778 01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:49,880 Speaker 3: You think you have a plan B, but what is it? 1779 01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:51,760 Speaker 3: What Am I going to go back to cocon at 1780 01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,720 Speaker 3: a restaurant? What am I going to teach? Am I 1781 01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:54,759 Speaker 3: going to go back to school? 1782 01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:56,880 Speaker 4: You know, the further way that shit gets and what 1783 01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:59,160 Speaker 4: am I qualified to do? Like you know, I used 1784 01:17:59,200 --> 01:17:59,920 Speaker 4: to do a joke about it. 1785 01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:01,840 Speaker 3: It's like you get to a certain point where things 1786 01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:05,439 Speaker 3: aren't working out but you know there's no plan being place. 1787 01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:07,360 Speaker 3: Then your brain sort of goes like, hey, well I 1788 01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,240 Speaker 3: don't have to do this because I could always oh shit, 1789 01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:11,599 Speaker 3: there used to be something. 1790 01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:11,960 Speaker 5: You know. 1791 01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:14,519 Speaker 1: Well, sometimes when I get really stressed, I'll make a 1792 01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:17,320 Speaker 1: joke and I'm like, sometimes I just think about moving 1793 01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:19,200 Speaker 1: to a small town and working. 1794 01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,360 Speaker 2: At Walmart and sure like disappearing. 1795 01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:23,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, just like disappearing and working a regular job and 1796 01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:27,040 Speaker 1: living a regular life where I'm not competing against my 1797 01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:31,280 Speaker 1: invisible self, because sometimes I feel like I have, you know, 1798 01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:34,719 Speaker 1: these things that I'm aspiring to be. But when stress 1799 01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:37,639 Speaker 1: levels get too high, I'm like, I can totally work 1800 01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:41,000 Speaker 1: at Walmart. And then in my brain it's like, yeah, 1801 01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:43,280 Speaker 1: how long do you think you can last? Like you know, 1802 01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:46,000 Speaker 1: like I don't know what that'd be my that's literally 1803 01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:47,800 Speaker 1: my plan B is like I moved to a small town. 1804 01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:50,519 Speaker 1: I live in a little house, and I like, you know, 1805 01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:53,120 Speaker 1: a register at a deli or something. 1806 01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:54,040 Speaker 4: You know, if you go can. 1807 01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:56,760 Speaker 3: Handle that, that's it's a nice place to go in 1808 01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:58,640 Speaker 3: your brain, if that makes you feel better, Like I, 1809 01:18:58,880 --> 01:18:59,519 Speaker 3: you know, I would. 1810 01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:00,760 Speaker 4: I don't know. 1811 01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:02,880 Speaker 3: I just kept pressing along, you know, and I kept 1812 01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:04,640 Speaker 3: pushing and pushing, and you know, I could you know, 1813 01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,560 Speaker 3: I was still in the game in a way, you know, 1814 01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:10,640 Speaker 3: like I would do cone and I do TV, I 1815 01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:12,920 Speaker 3: do radio. Like, you know, there was always I'd get 1816 01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:15,160 Speaker 3: a deal here and there, so there was always something 1817 01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:16,400 Speaker 3: which isn't always great. 1818 01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:19,160 Speaker 4: That was you know, encouraging me to keep going. 1819 01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:22,400 Speaker 3: And you know I wasn't again selling tickets as a comic, 1820 01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:23,880 Speaker 3: but you know, I knew people who knew me, and 1821 01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:24,880 Speaker 3: I could you know, I would go. 1822 01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:27,080 Speaker 4: Do the job and I could get on stage and everything. 1823 01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:30,120 Speaker 3: But there were just like sometimes you get indulged or 1824 01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:32,479 Speaker 3: you get you keep getting little paychecks here and there, 1825 01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:34,960 Speaker 3: and you probably you might you should quit. 1826 01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:36,960 Speaker 4: There's I've seen you know, I've been. 1827 01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:39,920 Speaker 3: In this game a long time, right, so almost almost 1828 01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:43,280 Speaker 3: forty years. You know, people come and go, some people disappear. 1829 01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:45,680 Speaker 3: You don't know how people survive. You know, you have 1830 01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:47,719 Speaker 3: no idea what people are up to. You see comics, 1831 01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,320 Speaker 3: you know, you know, see him for ten years, You're like, well, 1832 01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:53,599 Speaker 3: you've been doing. Some guys get out altogether. Some guys 1833 01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:55,800 Speaker 3: go into writing, they go into radio, they go into 1834 01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,000 Speaker 3: you know, producing whatever it is, or they get out. 1835 01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:01,479 Speaker 3: But but there's something when you're the one in charge 1836 01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:06,240 Speaker 3: of deciding when you're done, you know, delusion could certainly 1837 01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:09,479 Speaker 3: feed into that, and you kind of have to be 1838 01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:13,760 Speaker 3: delusional to make it go with this game, you have 1839 01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:17,280 Speaker 3: to be. But and also, like I've grown to realize that, 1840 01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:19,840 Speaker 3: like there were people in the past where I'd seen 1841 01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:22,080 Speaker 3: them like, what's this guy thinking, this guy's never gonna 1842 01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:23,960 Speaker 3: do it, and they do it. 1843 01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:26,200 Speaker 4: They figure it out, they. 1844 01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:31,519 Speaker 3: Figure out something, so I don't really judge. And also delusion, 1845 01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:35,040 Speaker 3: being a delusional to a certain degree is necessary to 1846 01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:36,920 Speaker 3: do this. Yeah, but you do it innately because you 1847 01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:39,200 Speaker 3: want to do this. You don't plan on being delusional, 1848 01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:40,400 Speaker 3: but you have to. 1849 01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:41,439 Speaker 4: You are to be. 1850 01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:45,120 Speaker 1: Of course, I think any time you're pursuing your dreams, 1851 01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:49,320 Speaker 1: especially like you know, there's no resume to get to 1852 01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:51,880 Speaker 1: like I didn't work a million places to. 1853 01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:53,559 Speaker 2: Get to this point. I just had a vision. 1854 01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:55,400 Speaker 1: Or you have a vision and you're like, I'm gonna 1855 01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:57,360 Speaker 1: kind of like what I was saying, I was, I 1856 01:20:57,479 --> 01:20:59,800 Speaker 1: had a vision and then just I take one step 1857 01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:00,439 Speaker 1: at a time. 1858 01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:03,240 Speaker 3: And I actually think that kind of works if you 1859 01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:05,439 Speaker 3: don't talk about your vision too much and you don't 1860 01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:10,120 Speaker 3: smoke too much weed. But but yeah, there's been definitely 1861 01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:10,880 Speaker 3: pivotal points. 1862 01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:12,920 Speaker 7: Why do you think if you talk about it too much, 1863 01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:18,519 Speaker 7: it's because you just you know, it's like if you like, 1864 01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:20,599 Speaker 7: there's some things I want to do, and I stick 1865 01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:23,960 Speaker 7: them in my brain, and you know, I don't sit 1866 01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:26,360 Speaker 7: there and meditate on them, but like, I know I 1867 01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:26,920 Speaker 7: want to do it. 1868 01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:29,240 Speaker 3: There's there's not there's a small menu of things I 1869 01:21:29,439 --> 01:21:32,439 Speaker 3: want to do. So I put in my brain that 1870 01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:34,559 Speaker 3: I want to do it, and then at some point, 1871 01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:37,560 Speaker 3: you know, the opportunity reveals itself and I do it. 1872 01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:40,120 Speaker 3: And I don't know if it's magic or what. But 1873 01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:44,080 Speaker 3: the thing about how it happened for me in that 1874 01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:47,880 Speaker 3: you know that the podcast happened and my timing was right, 1875 01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:50,880 Speaker 3: is that the one thing I knew is that a 1876 01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:53,960 Speaker 3: lot of opportunities came from the podcast, you know, book opportunities, 1877 01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:56,360 Speaker 3: acting opportunities. I did my own show and I have 1878 01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:59,760 Speaker 3: c stand up became a real business for me. I 1879 01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:01,960 Speaker 3: got following, but that all came out of the podcast. 1880 01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:04,080 Speaker 3: But the one thing I knew when I did that 1881 01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:08,639 Speaker 3: podcast was that, you know, I was ready to do whatever. 1882 01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:11,479 Speaker 3: You know, I'd been in the game, like that was 1883 01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:14,479 Speaker 3: in my forties, right. So the podcast starts two thousand 1884 01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:16,599 Speaker 3: and nine, sixty three, seventy three, eighty three, ninety three, 1885 01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:19,559 Speaker 3: two thousand and three, so I'm forty five man. 1886 01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:25,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, so when you started Yeah, so look you. 1887 01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:29,639 Speaker 4: Know or was that it? Yeah, something like that, not older. 1888 01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:32,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, when I started the podcast, but I've been doing 1889 01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:33,240 Speaker 3: comedy since eighty eight. 1890 01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,599 Speaker 4: Yeah. So I had chops. 1891 01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:38,080 Speaker 3: I had radio chops that had stand up chops, and 1892 01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:40,000 Speaker 3: I had some acting chops, and I you know, I 1893 01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:44,800 Speaker 3: definitely had put my you know, ten thousand hours in right, 1894 01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,880 Speaker 3: so by the time the other opportunities happened, you know, 1895 01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:50,720 Speaker 3: it was gravy man, like, yeah, I'll try that. Yeah, 1896 01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,080 Speaker 3: I don't give a shit. Yeah, you know, even without money. 1897 01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:55,040 Speaker 3: It's like, here come the opportunities. When I was younger, 1898 01:22:55,080 --> 01:22:57,080 Speaker 3: I get opportunities. I wasn't ready, but I was so 1899 01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:00,599 Speaker 3: hungry for them. I'd take them anyways, and then they 1900 01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:03,639 Speaker 3: don't work out because it's hard to know when you're ready. 1901 01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:06,080 Speaker 3: It's one thing to be delusional and committed and persistent 1902 01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:08,800 Speaker 3: to doing something, but if you get an opportunity that 1903 01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:12,600 Speaker 3: you may not make yourself, you better be ready to 1904 01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:12,920 Speaker 3: do it. 1905 01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:14,519 Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean? 1906 01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:16,600 Speaker 3: Like, because what I'm saying like, yeah, the podcast, I 1907 01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:19,640 Speaker 3: made that myself, acting and you know, doing stand up 1908 01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:22,800 Speaker 3: and movie options like if I get a deal, if 1909 01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:25,559 Speaker 3: someone goes, we want you to do this for our networker. Ready, 1910 01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:27,120 Speaker 3: Like back in the day, I'd be like, yeah, of 1911 01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:31,120 Speaker 3: course I wouldn't ready. But now, like I knew after 1912 01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:33,760 Speaker 3: the podcast after a few years, like I can do anything. 1913 01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:35,040 Speaker 4: I put the work in. 1914 01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:38,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, I can show up for that gig with full confidence, 1915 01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:41,000 Speaker 3: in a full, self actualized way. 1916 01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:44,720 Speaker 2: And did you ever this will be my last? Did 1917 01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:49,400 Speaker 2: you ever focus on your age too? Because when I was. 1918 01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:50,840 Speaker 1: Young, I would be like, by the time I'm twenty four, 1919 01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:52,479 Speaker 1: I want to be a millionaire. But I don't know 1920 01:23:52,479 --> 01:23:54,640 Speaker 1: if it's because I came from being poor, you know, 1921 01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:58,200 Speaker 1: where money was like always a issue, you know. 1922 01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:02,280 Speaker 4: I guess I did a little little bit, but I don't. 1923 01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:04,880 Speaker 4: I don't remember, like I always thought, like, well I 1924 01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:05,200 Speaker 4: used to. 1925 01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:07,640 Speaker 3: There's to be this idea that you know, as you 1926 01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:11,439 Speaker 3: get older, the heroes that you wanted to emulate or 1927 01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:14,680 Speaker 3: be like they, you know, the age goes up, you know, 1928 01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:16,880 Speaker 3: like at first, like I want to be like you know, 1929 01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:19,160 Speaker 3: Richard pry or whatever. Yeah, but then like you know, 1930 01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:21,040 Speaker 3: you pass a certain line of agent. It's like, well, 1931 01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:22,400 Speaker 3: Rodney Dangerfield didn't. 1932 01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:25,080 Speaker 4: Make it really till it was like sixty, like that's 1933 01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:25,679 Speaker 4: the new guy. 1934 01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:26,000 Speaker 5: Yeah. 1935 01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:28,639 Speaker 1: Yeah. That was the thing I always try to remind 1936 01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:32,360 Speaker 1: myself of the founder of KFC. Did you hear his 1937 01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:34,800 Speaker 1: story about how he like he was like living in 1938 01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:36,920 Speaker 1: his car he was trying to sell his recipe off 1939 01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:38,120 Speaker 1: and he didn't make it till he was like it 1940 01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:38,719 Speaker 1: is sixties. 1941 01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:39,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. 1942 01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:41,920 Speaker 2: I get those, and I'm always like, yo, does he 1943 01:24:42,200 --> 01:24:44,000 Speaker 2: make it? So he was like, sixty, you got time? 1944 01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:46,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know that helps you yeah, yeah, yeah. 1945 01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:50,000 Speaker 3: But like it ultimately, whether you backloaded or not, it 1946 01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:54,800 Speaker 3: is a process, and you don't you don't really know 1947 01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:57,320 Speaker 3: how it's going to work out in this business. Like 1948 01:24:57,400 --> 01:25:00,120 Speaker 3: I had no anticipation. And by the time I or 1949 01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:03,040 Speaker 3: the podcast, I was pretty bleak, pretty depressed. I was 1950 01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:05,760 Speaker 3: looking at, you know, a lifetime of you know, being 1951 01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:08,479 Speaker 3: like a b headliner in a way, you know, or 1952 01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:11,559 Speaker 3: just kind of hammering it out, and you know, it's 1953 01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:15,160 Speaker 3: almost suicidal, really, and because I didn't know what else 1954 01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:15,439 Speaker 3: to do. 1955 01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:18,439 Speaker 1: But at least you were, but you were you were 1956 01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:20,960 Speaker 1: almost suicidal, but you did not cave in sobriety. 1957 01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:22,400 Speaker 4: No, I didn't drink. 1958 01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:23,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing. 1959 01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:25,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's it. 1960 01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:27,800 Speaker 3: Like, well, if you work that first step, man, you 1961 01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:31,479 Speaker 3: know you do know, you know that if you understand 1962 01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:35,160 Speaker 3: what powerless means, you know, like if if the idea 1963 01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:38,559 Speaker 3: is like you were powerless over whatever, and your life 1964 01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:42,320 Speaker 3: has become unmanageable, you realize that what that means is 1965 01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:45,160 Speaker 3: that I have no ability to control my drinking or 1966 01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:48,439 Speaker 3: drug use. And that's I've proven that to myself again 1967 01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:51,840 Speaker 3: and again that I can't control it. So if you 1968 01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:54,240 Speaker 3: get that in your head deep enough, you know that 1969 01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:56,439 Speaker 3: taking a drug or taking a drink is only going 1970 01:25:56,479 --> 01:25:58,120 Speaker 3: to lead to more drugs and more drinks is not 1971 01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:01,800 Speaker 3: going to give you anything but that. Okay, So once 1972 01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:05,639 Speaker 3: you understand that, like because like as an attic person, 1973 01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:09,320 Speaker 3: it's like, if you're honest with yourself, you don't the 1974 01:26:09,439 --> 01:26:10,920 Speaker 3: idea is like I can drink regular. 1975 01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,280 Speaker 4: It's like, no, you can't. You never did. So you 1976 01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:14,880 Speaker 4: got to get into your mind that like, if I'm 1977 01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:16,040 Speaker 4: gonna drink, that's what I'm gonna do. 1978 01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:19,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna be every day, and it's 1979 01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:21,960 Speaker 3: gonna be for real. Yeah, Like there's all this legal 1980 01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:24,160 Speaker 3: weed around. I used to love weed, but I know that, 1981 01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:27,040 Speaker 3: like if I start doing a gummy or smoking a 1982 01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:27,839 Speaker 3: little weed. 1983 01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:30,439 Speaker 4: It's gonna be every day. It'd be every day within 1984 01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:32,720 Speaker 4: two weeks. Wow, it's to the nature of the game. 1985 01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:35,479 Speaker 2: But the first step is to recognize that you're powerless. 1986 01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:35,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1987 01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:38,000 Speaker 4: Wow, that's the heavy one. 1988 01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:41,000 Speaker 2: I think save that for myself. 1989 01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:42,320 Speaker 4: Well, you're well, the weird. 1990 01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:45,000 Speaker 3: Thing is powerlessness as a position. You realize that, if 1991 01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:48,240 Speaker 3: you really think about it, you're powerless over most things. 1992 01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:52,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been starting I had a tough year this year, 1993 01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:56,040 Speaker 2: and so I've been starting to realize that. Slowly. 1994 01:26:56,400 --> 01:26:57,840 Speaker 1: It took me like hit in my head. You know, 1995 01:26:57,960 --> 01:27:00,679 Speaker 1: you repeat the same actions, you just the same results, 1996 01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:04,280 Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know what, you gotta admit this 1997 01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:08,040 Speaker 1: one right here. This is you have lit hit insanity. 1998 01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:10,240 Speaker 1: And I think in that you realize that you're powerless. 1999 01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:11,719 Speaker 4: Well that's yeah, that's the equation. 2000 01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:12,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. 2001 01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:13,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. 2002 01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:15,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I just want to say it's a pleasure 2003 01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:19,000 Speaker 2: having you. Your meal was a ten out of a ten. 2004 01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:23,519 Speaker 1: Okay, and uh, the last couple of episodes, my guess 2005 01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:26,760 Speaker 1: we'll know. I've been like it will never happen again. 2006 01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:30,479 Speaker 1: I for sure will go home. I'm keeping the tahini sauce. 2007 01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:35,240 Speaker 2: Did you want it? Okay, sa the I won't even 2008 01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:38,639 Speaker 2: have that? I will? Are you sure I was gonna say? 2009 01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:41,559 Speaker 1: I'm definitely gonna get shout outs to the Japanese barbecue 2010 01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:46,880 Speaker 1: sauce and the tin sauce. Yeah yeah, let me just 2011 01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:51,040 Speaker 1: tell you, guys, that sauce rice the beyond burger. 2012 01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:54,599 Speaker 2: I think the beyond burger's texture and flavor than you thought. 2013 01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:56,760 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, well, I've had Beyond burgers. I do have 2014 01:27:56,880 --> 01:27:58,720 Speaker 1: one question. How do you cook a beyond burger and 2015 01:27:58,760 --> 01:27:59,360 Speaker 1: know it's cooked? 2016 01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:01,880 Speaker 3: Brown it on both sides. I don't think there's anything 2017 01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:05,240 Speaker 3: in there like raw meat. I think it's all plant stuff. Anyways, Okay, 2018 01:28:05,320 --> 01:28:06,880 Speaker 3: we just cook it like a burger, but you don't 2019 01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:09,200 Speaker 3: you know, you know, you know, don't dry it out, 2020 01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:09,560 Speaker 3: you know. 2021 01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,160 Speaker 1: I definitely one hundred percent will make this meal at 2022 01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:16,800 Speaker 1: home for me and my minion. But yeah, thank you 2023 01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:18,720 Speaker 1: so much for taking time out of your schedule. How 2024 01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:21,640 Speaker 1: can fans keep up with you? It's oh, you know, 2025 01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:23,639 Speaker 1: you guys know how to keep up with Mark Merret 2026 01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:24,000 Speaker 1: Come on. 2027 01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:27,519 Speaker 3: Wtfpod dot com is the website for the podcast at 2028 01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:30,200 Speaker 3: Mark Maren on Instagram. 2029 01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:31,880 Speaker 2: And do you still have a Patreon and all that. 2030 01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:34,680 Speaker 4: I never had a Patreon, Oh, you know, because. 2031 01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:37,519 Speaker 2: You were before it ever. A lot of podcasts that 2032 01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:39,360 Speaker 2: I know are doing it and know. 2033 01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:43,519 Speaker 4: What it is. I'm not really that tech savvy. You know. 2034 01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:46,120 Speaker 3: I've got a TikTok too, but I'm not that. I 2035 01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:49,840 Speaker 3: have a guy that just puts stuff up there Instagram. Occasionally, 2036 01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:52,040 Speaker 3: if you follow me on Instagram, I'll do a live 2037 01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:55,160 Speaker 3: and they'll be long, and they usually happen the day 2038 01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:57,360 Speaker 3: that I have to record for the podcast the next day, 2039 01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:01,559 Speaker 3: every Sunday and third and Wednesday. You know, I've got 2040 01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:03,720 Speaker 3: to do the ads and the intros for the for 2041 01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:06,479 Speaker 3: the interview. And sometimes before I do that, I'll go 2042 01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:08,600 Speaker 3: on Instagram live for like hour an hour and a 2043 01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:10,479 Speaker 3: half and just walk. 2044 01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:12,960 Speaker 4: Through my life, talk to my cats, play guitar. Yeah, 2045 01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:13,240 Speaker 4: I did it. 2046 01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:16,200 Speaker 3: I started doing it during the pandemic, just to stay 2047 01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:18,559 Speaker 3: staying and stay connected to an audience. 2048 01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:21,479 Speaker 4: And I would do almost like a morning show. 2049 01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:24,000 Speaker 2: You went through a lot during the pandemic, Yeah. 2050 01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:28,120 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah I did. My girlfriend passed away and. 2051 01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:34,200 Speaker 1: And you again, you stayed strong, like sobriety if. 2052 01:29:33,360 --> 01:29:35,280 Speaker 4: I stay strong. I went through a lot of pain, 2053 01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:37,639 Speaker 4: but I did not. Yeah, yeah you didn't stay it's sober. 2054 01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:38,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, you stayed sober. 2055 01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:41,200 Speaker 1: The only reason why I say that is because typically 2056 01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:44,040 Speaker 1: from the little bit that I know about addiction is 2057 01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:47,439 Speaker 1: like when those things happen, you find those ways to cope. 2058 01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:49,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you'll But what. 2059 01:29:49,240 --> 01:29:51,519 Speaker 3: You know when you get enough sobriety is that you 2060 01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:54,120 Speaker 3: adding drugs or drink that this ain't gonna help nothing, 2061 01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:57,320 Speaker 3: and you know it could just lead to more drugs 2062 01:29:57,360 --> 01:29:59,479 Speaker 3: and drink, because you know, coping is one thing, but 2063 01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:02,360 Speaker 3: you know you're built to cope no matter what. You 2064 01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:04,960 Speaker 3: just have to feel the feelings, like because drugs and 2065 01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:08,519 Speaker 3: drink is not really coping. Self medicating is not really coping, 2066 01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:11,320 Speaker 3: especially if you have a problem, because then that becomes 2067 01:30:11,360 --> 01:30:11,880 Speaker 3: the problem. 2068 01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:14,280 Speaker 4: The thing is is like you know, you have the 2069 01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:17,080 Speaker 4: feelings and you know eventually it'll get better, you know. 2070 01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:19,640 Speaker 1: I was had a conversation with my little brother the 2071 01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:22,360 Speaker 1: other day and he said something that I felt was 2072 01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:24,680 Speaker 1: so remarkable. On a group text with our family. He 2073 01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:27,080 Speaker 1: said something like he was depressed, and I'm like, I've 2074 01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:29,519 Speaker 1: never heard my brother use this term. So I reached 2075 01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:31,000 Speaker 1: out to him, like, what's going on He's like, don't 2076 01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:31,479 Speaker 1: worry about it. 2077 01:30:31,479 --> 01:30:32,439 Speaker 2: I was like, why he. 2078 01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:36,240 Speaker 1: Goes depression is like a cold. He's like, eventually, you know, 2079 01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:38,400 Speaker 1: in a couple of days, it's going to ease up. 2080 01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:39,519 Speaker 2: You just go through it. 2081 01:30:40,080 --> 01:30:42,680 Speaker 1: And I never thought of it like that, but just 2082 01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:45,360 Speaker 1: the thought of thinking of, Okay, I'm in this sad state. 2083 01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:47,080 Speaker 1: It's going to be a moment in time and then 2084 01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:50,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to come through it, and you know, shout 2085 01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:51,880 Speaker 1: out to my little brother. But I thought that was 2086 01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:55,360 Speaker 1: one of the most unique ways of dealing with pain. 2087 01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:58,160 Speaker 1: It's just like in a couple of days, in a week, 2088 01:30:58,360 --> 01:30:58,960 Speaker 1: I'll be fine. 2089 01:30:59,000 --> 01:30:59,479 Speaker 2: It's a cold. 2090 01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:02,280 Speaker 3: Well that's the Yeah, Like that's a there's a little 2091 01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:04,240 Speaker 3: saying that called feelings aren't facts. 2092 01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:09,519 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, like you know eventually though, yeah, but yeah, 2093 01:31:09,800 --> 01:31:11,760 Speaker 4: be careful with the depression. If you got it, you know, 2094 01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:12,600 Speaker 4: if you really got it. 2095 01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:13,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 2096 01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:16,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. Sadness is sadness. 2097 01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:18,400 Speaker 2: This is sadness. But thank you so much. 2098 01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:21,519 Speaker 1: I enjoyed our meal, and thanks for sharing your story 2099 01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:23,120 Speaker 1: and being very transparent with me. 2100 01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:24,600 Speaker 4: You're welcome, Thanks for having me. 2101 01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:47,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, all right, peace out guys for more 2102 01:31:47,479 --> 01:31:50,280 Speaker 2: eating while broke from iHeart radio and the Black Effect. 2103 01:31:50,479 --> 01:31:54,040 Speaker 1: Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen 2104 01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:55,200 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.