WEBVTT - LeBron's China Mistake; One-And-Dones Wind Down; Former Kansas Star Eric Chenowith On Expectations, KU Struggles 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:10.280 Hey, welcome in to All Ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:14.040 to the All Basketball Podcast and the Herd Podcast Network. 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:18.280 My guest this week is my longtime friend in college 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.560 and radio rival, Eric Chenoweth. Of course, EC was the 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:24.079 Center of Kansas for a couple of years and I 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.400 was at local state second round pick of the New 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.440 York Knicks. He's a form McDonald's All American and he 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:33.800 now sells a various allotment of insurance policies to both 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.440 schools and athletes as uh as they get ready to 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.600 either come back and play in college or prepare for 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.559 the NBA NFL Draft. Anyway, EC will join us upcoming. 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.680 Let's talk about the story that that won't go away. 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.360 All right, It's crazy because we're less than a week 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:55.040 away from the NBA season beginning Clippers and Lakers at 0:00:55.040 --> 0:01:00.480 Staples Center. That's the marquee matchup on opening night. Right 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.920 the the new grand theft auto uh font on the 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.640 front of the Clippers jersey. I'm in. I can't wait 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.040 to see this kind of burgeoning rivalry in the City 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:15.440 of Angels. That said, what a disaster week for Lebron James. 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.039 I mean, not good, not good, and I do think 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.480 that some of the things that he said are true. 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.720 Many of the things he said are true, Like I 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.679 don't know if Darryl Morey is truly educated on Hong Kong. 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.480 On what there's a difference in Hong Kong, and then 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:36.280 the practices of the Chinese government there is UM, I 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.759 don't know why he said people could be spiritually harmed. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.600 The idea could be physically harmed financially harmed obviously perked 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.640 everybody's ears. And then the idea that Lebron had to 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:52.440 then have a statement on Instagram, not once, but twice. UM, 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:56.360 So he had two statements on Instagram, and then he 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.040 came out and made another statement a practice and another 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.360 statement of practice, and then he said, I'm not gonna 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.440 talk about anymore because they all kind of went over 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:08.000 the same. He's put himself in a couple of different corners. 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.000 Lebron and many of his cohorts in the NBA who 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:17.800 look up to him have um have criticized politically the 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.720 right wing, not just the president, but also people who 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:26.200 uh don't believe what he believes. And that's fine, Like 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.839 he said, he does have freedom of speech, not free 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.600 of ramification. The problem is that when he takes the 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:38.480 stance that he's perceived to be taking on China, Well, 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:43.000 you spent I don't know, the last four or five 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.120 years pissing off the right, and now you're taking a 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:52.920 crap on the left. So that's a hard one. Um. 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.000 And then here's kind of to me the the the 0:02:56.040 --> 0:03:00.160 biggest hypocrisy is not getting mad because it's her, you 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.000 in your wallet, and the idea that he is in 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:06.959 fact selling out it's um because he's he's not wrong. 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.800 You don't have to comment on everything, like even the 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:11.600 idea of being more than an athlete, Like he didn't 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:15.120 have to comment on everything, Like even in our newscast, 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:17.520 how many times do we see there's a tragic accident 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.080 only five Americans? Five Americans parish. No Americans parish, Like, oh, 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.520 the accident is not that big deal because no Americans parish, Right, 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:25.440 So we won't comment on it, we won't send relief 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.880 effort forward unless it somehow affects us. He's not wrong there, 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:32.440 and he's not wrong that so many are uneducated, um 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.040 on what's going on in Hong Kong. But it hasn't 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.360 stopped him from speaking out on things in the past 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.120 that he might not be all that educated on right. 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.640 I mean, and see a athletes, he didn't play in college. 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.440 What does he know about the college experience? What does 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.160 he know about the value of You know, it goes 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:58.560 actually goes counter to his perceived and preach belief of 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:02.640 the value of education for his I promised school. I 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:08.880 think though, that the biggest issue is um is that 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.920 Lebron James has been a leader to the idea of 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.560 if you're not getting what you want, don't play, leave 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.239 go to somewhere else, right, whether it's in his career 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.000 NFL players Jalen Ramsey, I'm not gonna play, end up 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.680 getting traded like that's great. You're in China. You knew 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:32.599 about the controversy. Don't play, you don't have to play? 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.920 Why not here Lebron James? So look the Lebron thing, 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:43.200 I don't know. You know you uh. He's done an 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:47.960 amazing job his entire life or public life, which is 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.159 like his junior year in high school on of seemingly 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:55.840 saying and doing most of the right things. And of 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.119 course the criticism of when he first left Cleveland was wrong. 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:01.880 You know, I don't know why I needed to donate 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.480 two million dollars to a boys club in Grandwich, Connecticut. 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:07.800 You know, could have done the same to Akron back then. 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.920 But now we're just kind of trying to fly in 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:14.479 flaws with the supermodel. You know, there's been no talk 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:20.000 of drugs, affairs of women. You know, it's been basketball stuff. 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.880 Not liking coaches, some getting some of them fired, not 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:29.400 loving playing certain organizations, and moving on wanting better players 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.120 than he had last year with the Lakers. That's basketball, 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.000 professional stuff, not personal stuff. I'm not saying the guy 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.000 is flawless, but the pr of Lebron has for the 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:42.240 most part, been flawless. But but here's I think what happens, Like, 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:46.280 let's hit the nail on the head. What happens when 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:50.640 you become so big and you keep your circles so 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.719 small and people come in and all they want to 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.160 do is kiss the ring. Nobody tells you you're wrong anymore. 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.640 And they had a weeked, they had an entire week 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:03.480 to figure out. Man, what am I gonna say with 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:07.560 this China thing? Because look, anybody with the brain understands 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:18.919 we're tapped out in the United States, right like Facebook, Google, Apple, Yahoo, 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.880 You know, those are the Those are the companies I'm 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.200 forgetting somebody. Those are the companies that have all the cash. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.760 Everybody else kind of tapped out, and you're looking for 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:34.200 markets where there's growth Turkeys one. The other one is China. 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.320 China has the people. China has the growth. China was 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:39.960 suppressed for years because of how they were old school 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:44.040 cap communists. Now they're like new school capitalist slas s 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.599 last communist and everybody's trying to get in on China. 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.880 They just are. That's why baseball wants to play there 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.200 and football wants to play there. Basketball tready is playing there, 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.560 Like that's it's no secret. It's about the money. It's 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.920 about the people. It's about the financial resources to have 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:05.120 more people have more money. But boy, for a guy 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:09.640 who has done so many things, the right way to 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.960 appear to be about the bottom line. And I don't 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.560 even think it's about his bottom line. Like I don't 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:20.680 think he's that ticked that his appearances were canceled, but 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.760 he's mad. Kyle Kuzma lost a million dollars. But if 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.720 you lose a million dollars for the right reason, right 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:29.280 and by the way, you might lose a man. Now 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:31.320 you might make two. On the back end of it, 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.000 if you do things the right way, Hey, we're not 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.120 gonna We're not gonna play. Where was the where was 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.440 the stance? Where where's the stance of Unless there's some 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.920 improvements of human rights, we're not going to play. If 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.320 you're so bothered by one tweet, then maybe you shouldn't 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.680 have us play basketball in your country because this is 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.040 how we feel, and I do like I feel for 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:54.240 the idea that it's a different country. It's a completely 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:58.560 different government, completely different ideology than the one we grew 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.600 up in or the one we grew up aiming to 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:05.000 have America B. But if you're going to defend it, 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:10.200 especially considering who you've aligned yourself politically with, this is 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.239 what you're gonna be met with. Lebron James is an athlete, 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.320 immensely talented one. But he's not more than an athlete, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:21.480 unless you consider being a capitalist more than athlete. Let 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.760 me just give you this kind of real quick preview 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:29.680 college basketball thought. As we creep creep closer and closer. Two, 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:34.000 when we believe, we believe that high school players will 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.920 be allowed to come out straight to the pros, let's 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:42.360 appreciate the superstar freshman um that are going to be 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.320 playing college basketball like Cole Anthony. Now, I saw Cole 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:50.800 Anthony's Greg Anthony's son, Um, I saw him play several 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:56.160 times in the past three years, and he's uh, he's 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.640 got he's got a little asshole in him, right, And 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.200 I mean that in an endearing quality, Like he's so 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:07.080 tough and so kind of mean and so competitive that 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.200 I feel like, and I know there are there are 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.559 people who will tell you he's not great to play with. 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:13.959 He can be a little selfish, he can be a 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.960 little temperamental, Like yeah, I like I think Roy Williams, 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:23.319 coach Williams will handle that. I just do. I wouldn't 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.640 be surprised at all if he doesn't um when the 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.360 Bob Cuzy Award. Wouldn't be surprised all if he becomes 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.679 a National Player of the Year candidate. He's that talented. 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:36.200 Caroline is pretty good as well. So, but they lose 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.640 so much losing you know, Cam Johnson and and you 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:44.000 know that uh kind of dynamic combination of two uh 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.240 you know, old big guys that can really shoot the 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.880 basketball and Luke may I saw I just got cut. 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.880 But um, the teams that will win, for the most part, 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:54.560 are going to be the older teams the way it is, 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.280 although there's been this massive purge and massive turnover in 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.040 college basketball, so many guys going to pros. But the 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.120 things that we're gonna miss, we're gonna miss these top five, 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.600 top ten high school americans because they'll all go pro. 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:13.200 I think ultimately, if that happens, it'll work out. I 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.720 think ultimately it will work out where too many guys 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:18.880 go pro the first couple of years and then eventually 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:20.840 they figure out, hey, the G League is not a 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:22.960 great place. You're not gonna be a lottery pick if 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:24.720 you're not gonna be on an NBA team, go to 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.880 college for a couple of years. But I do think 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:29.920 for several years we're gonna lose a lot of those 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.560 high school americans. I'm excited about Cole Anthony. He's a 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:38.079 different type of cat in terms of not just pedigree, toughness, fanasty. 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:43.480 His shooting continues to improve, he defends, he's got size, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:48.559 he's got athleticism, he's really really good. You'll you'll enjoy 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.280 watching him. But let's enjoy watching these talented freshman because 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.160 we won't see as many have as profound an impact 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.280 in the years to come. All right, let's let's welcome 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.880 in my first guest. My guest, he's Air channeli's former 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.800 star at the University of Kansas, former second round draft 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.360 pick of the New York Knicks. Be sure to catch 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.439 the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:14.000 three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.520 and the I Heart Radio app. Let's catch up with 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:22.880 the legend himself. He was McDonald's All American in at 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.880 a Villa Park High School. Um who was in the 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.800 McDonald's All American Game and at nineties seven. Wow, we 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:36.200 had some guys Elton brand lamarrowed um Um, Brendan Haywood, 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:46.120 Chris Burge's, uh Ronald Tests, we had Baron Davis, Collins twins, 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:47.960 a lot of a lot of big I mean West 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.600 Coast big dudes. Right, yeah, Yeah, it was like, I 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.560 think it was kind of the last crop of real, 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.000 you know, big guys. There was obviously the you know, 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.720 Tyson Chandler and a couple of guys after that, but 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.160 since then it's kind of been a lot of wings 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.880 and guards coming out of Southern California, you know, you know, 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.400 you guys got beat badly. Um, you had Britain Johnson, 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.840 Jason Collins, Jaren Collins, you burgess who did my potterly? 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:17.839 And Marcus Griffin and Ryan Humphrey well Man hump uh 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.920 all on the same team and you guys lost. Now 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.640 the other team had other bigs Lamarrow to Melvin Eli 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:28.720 and Brendan Haywood, Marcus Feiser. What do you remember about 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:33.400 the game? Bad coaching obviously, you know, I mean you 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.000 remember our fault. Um, you know, I just I mean 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.280 I was kind of like starstruck the whole time. Just 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:42.520 I was just so honored to be there, to be 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.920 named mcdonalth American and then actually get there and you know, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.400 have a live game on CBS and you know, get 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.440 to play as my future teammate Kenny Gregory. Um, it 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.920 was really I mean I started to pinch myself the 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:58.720 whole time. It was such a great experience. Um, but 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:00.719 the game was kind of a work has just went 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.080 so fast and everything everything was so intense. Now the 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:05.439 game is like a you know, throw it up all 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:07.679 star game. But back then we actually got after it 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.840 and you know, played hard. Uh why did you remind me? 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.400 Why did you pick Kansas because you wanted to go 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.800 there really badly, and coach didn't want to recruit you, 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:20.640 so I thought I'd went up and go there instead. 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.959 So as as so fucked up, I just want you, 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.000 why did you do? Once you point out I wanted 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.160 to go to Duke, but they had taken Woe Joe 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.880 the year before. I did always love Kansas in the 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:37.760 way in which they played, and they took Robertson early. Um, 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.920 they took Robertson Ryan Robertson early, and you know he 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.160 was local and he was he was a McDonald's American 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:49.960 my senior year, which um, I'll never get anyway, but 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.079 but yeah, he didn't. But no, but seriously, why did 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:58.040 why Kansas? I mean, if you'm obviously you've played the 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.560 game there, I mean once you stepped foo him that arena. Uh, 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.640 all the history and the mystique to be to have 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.720 a chance to play there, you know, it's it was 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.160 beyond my further dreams. I remember when I was a kid, 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:11.439 I used to do yard with my dad and we 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.640 listened to games as we did work at the house. 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:15.800 And remember listening to like the A D eight championship 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.000 game over a radio with my dad and like idolizing 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:20.880 Danny Manning and then he went to the Clippers and 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:22.880 I kind of got to know him through some friends 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.280 and it just came it was always Kansas and everybody 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.280 else for me. And then I mean, really honestly, remember 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.800 our Sunday workouts at Tustin High School. We're in high school, 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:33.840 and remember one day you came in and you were like, 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.560 I know, you were eating something and you were like, 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.440 you know, hey, uh in between buys, You're like, oh, 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.280 you're going to Kansas fall down sixteen thou three hundred, 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.000 and I was like, and it's really weird, but I 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.440 think at that moment I kind of like conceptualized that, like, 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:49.920 you know what, I think that is the right spot 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.080 for me. And then I committed early as well. So 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.560 I committed Argust first, which was Coach's birthday. After the 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.320 recruiting period, and I wanted to have a fun senior year, 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.640 not to deal with all the recruiting and stress and 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:01.640 who's going to where I knew where I wanted to go, 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.240 and I went there, and I mean I had great experience, 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:06.480 won a lot of games, and you know, I still 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.240 have really really, did you take the university. Did you 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.560 take a visit there before you committed? I took. Yeah, 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.440 I took unofficial So I did all unofficials. Junior visited. Yeah, 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:22.400 Notre Dame. Yeah, I saw you saw coach McCloud. Uh, 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.240 you know, went to I went to Indiana. Uh, Kansas obviously, 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.440 Uh we did. Duke, I did Utah. I went to 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.800 Majaris's big man camp, So I went there. Um, you 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.400 hit all the big, big white guy spots. That's what 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:40.680 you did, because we like because Duke had like Tamon 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.600 Demzowski's big you know, all those big guys, Mark Acres 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.080 and Laterner right, and then you know Indian always had 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.640 big white guys, and in Notre Dame big white guys 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:51.040 like do you have a big white guy? Sure, I'll 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.320 come visit your campus. That was basically a recruiting philosophy. 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:59.120 Yeah you said it. But yeah, I mean, luckily, my 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.800 you know, my dad could afford to take us on 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:04.000 his unofficial trips because, like I said, I really wanted 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:05.720 to have a care for refunds a year. I didn't 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.520 want to be missing football games on Fridays. I don't 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.800 want to be traveling everywhere. I wanted to just get 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:12.880 it done with and then you know, have my senior 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:16.440 year to myself. So um, but you know, the unofficial 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.560 trips are as great as official trips. Obviously I did 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.880 take an official trip to Kansas, but um, yeah, I'm 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.000 glad I got it done early. Okay, So you show 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:32.280 up at Kansas in the fall of nineteen. Uh, that 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.240 team had Paul Pierce and Raith of friends. What do 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.400 you what do you remember? What was your first impressions 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.800 of being a k on campus playing pickup ball, what 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:45.080 the whole experience was like. I just remember the level 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:49.400 of intensity the step up from high school to college was. 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:50.800 It was it. It was I mean I can't even 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:52.560 think a word to express it. I mean it was 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:56.720 just so much more intense, so much more physical. Um, 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.880 you know, coming in all of SuDS, the McDonald's American Die, 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:01.760 the are gonna go at you to see what you've 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.680 got and and really challenge you remember Race like going 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.000 right at me right away day one and just kind 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:08.600 of letting me know, like, Hey, this is how it's 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.959 gonna be, this is the level we play at. Especially 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.000 you know, even t JP. I'm sure you remember him, 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.480 who was just a you know, really intense player and 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.399 really good defender, and so just day one was like, okay, 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.600 it's on. And then I just remember being in awe 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:25.960 of how good Paul was. I mean, I played against 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.080 Paul in high school. Obviously we did, and we knew him, 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:30.760 and I knew how special he was. But he had 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.520 you know, improved his body and he gotten stronger and 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.800 you know, extended his range. And I just remember he 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.800 would absolutely dominate every single day and take up um, 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:45.040 you know, and then once you know, uh we did 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.320 our conditioning test and all that stuff. It's just you 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.440 didn't have any time to get bored or homesick because 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:53.600 you're so busy just in the grind of everything that 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.480 started literally on day one. When when during this process 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.840 did you fall in love with Dave Matthews Man. I 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.879 always like Dave, even when I was in high school. 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.040 I mean, I want my buddies. We used to you know, 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.440 go see him and in concerts and stuff. And then 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.280 you know, it's unfortunately that story kind of took a 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:14.320 life of its own. It's funny our r s I 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.320 d Dean Bucking, who I'm still friends with, Like every 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.080 time he sees me, he cringes because he feels horrible 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.000 about that story, you know, just taking off and getting 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.399 out of control, because it was funny. I think. I 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:27.719 it was like, you know, what what did you do 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:29.879 in your summer vacation. It's like, well, I you know, 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:31.919 I went, woke up, go to the lift weights, and 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.000 then go play pick up and then go to the beach, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.240 and you know, I saw Dave Matthew's fand and it 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:38.840 was like, oh, you saw Dave, and I'm like you, 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.360 I'm a big fan. And two shows in southern California, 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:45.000 and then I went to my buddies and then you know, 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.000 we road tripped it up, you know to see him 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:48.720 in the Bay. So I saw him up there, and 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:50.320 then they were in Kansas. When I was in Kansas, 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:51.840 I saw him four times last year. And then all 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:55.360 of a sudden it turned into Eric's not focused, he's 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.679 a he's a he's an ex Bill Walton, you know, 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:02.400 Dave Head, you know, just traveling with the band. He's 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:04.720 a groupie. I saw him on the stand. It just 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.800 it turned into its complete, you know, out of control story. 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.960 And it was he coincide with me having a really 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.359 good sophomore year and then going to my junior and 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.680 struggling and then having two really really good players and 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.399 Nicholisman Drew good in coming in the minutes, get you know, share, 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:23.320 and then all of a sudden, you know, I don't 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:26.240 love basketball, and it's you know, Eric Socks and the 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.800 whole deal. It really spouted out of control quickly, and 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.439 you know, we've all had you know, public struggles and 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.200 so you know, and it was funny. I just saw 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.120 Mark Stante was talking about it yet the other day 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.040 on sports about losing your starting position and how painful 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.480 that is, and I remember, I mean it was really 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.720 really hard, you know, losing my starting spot. And then 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.040 you know, obviously it was happening for Nick and Drew 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.040 for succeeding. But I couldn't even listen to Dave Matthews 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.560 then for a while because people kind of asked me 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:57.399 about it. I'm like, dude, it's just a band. I 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.919 like to see him, you know, in the summer with 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.240 I thought, he's you know, it's not like I'm you know, uh, 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.160 you know, loading up in Winni Bay and traveling all 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.800 of all of the country, so uh, you know, it's 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.200 funny like to this day, like I'm still I still 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:14.560 like the music, and uh, you know, I still go 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.679 seeing one they're in town and stuff. But that story, 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.600 you know, just took a life of its own. Um okay, 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.560 so let's let's go back to because you were you 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.520 and and Kenny Gregory with a two freshman that played 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:28.880 a bunch. You had another guy people forget you guys 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.320 had Lesser Earl, who was like as highly talented high 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.000 school player as there ever was. I went to l 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.000 s U and he just freak athlete but just no 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.399 real no, no real position. But you guys had this 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:44.639 unbelievable in terms of name talent, right, like to have 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:50.840 Paul and Rafe to basically NBA All Stars Top five picks, BT, 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.639 Billy Thomas who became an NBA player, just a great shooter. 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.600 Ryan Robertson McDonald's All American who became an NBA player 0:20:57.640 --> 0:20:59.480 who was a junior that year, right, he wasn't young. 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.840 You had you and Lester Earl and t J. Pugh 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:07.720 and Nick Bradford and Kenny Gregory. How the fund did 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:12.200 you guys not get to a final four? Katina Mobile 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:16.159 and Tyson Wheeler. I mean literally we only lost, you know, 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.800 we were thirty found four that year, we lost at Maryland. 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:22.000 I remember early, Um, we just didn't play well. And 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.320 then we lost at Missouri, which is always tough to 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:30.439 play at. And then um, you know, just I don't know, 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.480 they just can I can, I can? I tell you, 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:34.280 I don't know if this happened in the Rhode Island game. 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:36.119 But let me tell you about our game. So we 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:38.000 played you guys only once that year. You guys won. 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:40.600 The league has won thirty five games. Guys want but 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:42.879 the league back then was separating the North and South, 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:45.160 and we tied to in the South or whatever we 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:48.800 picked lasting the South. Anyway, so you guys play, Um, 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:51.080 we're getting ready to play it. It's the last game 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:55.000 of the year. It's on ABC, and coach that swear 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:59.880 to God. He walks and he goes, listen, Kansas come 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:05.520 in here with lester Row, Kenny Gregory and Ryan Robertson 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:09.520 and t J. Pugh and Channing with brother they're good now. 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:13.320 When they got Paul Pierce and rape the friends on 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.719 the court. At the same time, there betterness about eight 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.320 to ten points betterness. It's like, but you know, our 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:24.560 coach against Royal a long time and he ain't gonna 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:26.840 take one of them out. He's gonna take both of 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:31.040 them out at the same time. And brother without rape. 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:34.520 The friends and Paul Pierson that court were better to them, 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.320 and basically our game plass where to got. Our game 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:41.399 plan was like, hey, let's just stay close, just stay close, 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:45.119 and then at some point and both of those two 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:47.439 big motherfucker's are gonna come out of the game, and 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:49.800 that's when we go. If you go back and watch 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:51.520 the tay, we lost that game by four points. You 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:53.600 guys were probably twenty points better than. Part of it 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:56.359 was we started my boy time and we started the 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:58.760 seniors on Senior Day, which is stupid, right, It's like 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:01.200 one of those that's great to do when you're when 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:03.919 you're playing, you know, yeah, but it come out at 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:05.960 the first dead ball, dude, we were down like, we 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:07.800 were down like eight nothing like we don't need to 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:11.399 spot Kansas eight points, all right, We don't need to 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:13.440 We don't need to spot Kansas a points. That is 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:18.040 not a good idea. It's just don't remember you you 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:19.800 know our place better than we did, I think, and 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:23.040 we were running secondary break and you turned your head 0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:25.479 to bait me to swing it and then you popped 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:27.840 back out and stole the swing path. I'll never forget that, 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:30.639 you guys do. Here's a camp so I know all 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:34.160 the Kansas ship because we we loved it. So um 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:37.160 you with that box set that goes into like still shuffle. Yeah, 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:43.120 that's one. Yeah, one that the cutters come across. It's 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:45.760 a steal every time because you guys are like robots, right, 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:48.360 because the big guys pop out and then the big 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:51.199 guy and then you know, the point guard passes and 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:53.480 then screens away for the other big guy becomes a 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:56.600 shuffle cut into a post up, right, And I mean 0:23:57.280 --> 0:23:59.480 it was a layup, but yes I do. I didn't 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:01.440 know what's called you one, but thank you. I'll drop 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:05.679 that down. B one, B two, B three Okay, So 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:07.920 which one is the one? And then then you fake 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:10.680 that right, you fake the pass, trouble to the middle, 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:13.680 reverse dribble and dug it duck into the big guy. 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:16.840 That's B three three? Yeah. So B one is the 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:19.879 standard scoring cut where you know rape would come through 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:22.679 and get it lay up every time, which Carolina ran 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:26.119 really well with U with Tyler, you know, on that 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:29.040 championship team and whatever year it was. And then B 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.320 two is a backdoor double basically fake it and backdoor 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:34.000 the one guy and then Billy Thomas comes off the 0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:35.680 double screen the other side, and then B three is 0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:39.560 where you dribble um. You known you reverse pivot and 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:43.280 that's when the backcutter hooks is defended. Anyway, you stole 0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:45.520 the ball, and I remember you got a breakaway and 0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:48.239 I found you pretty hard because obviously you can't sto 0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:50.560 creato to save your life. And we went it was 0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:51.919 just like get the ball back. It was just a 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:53.920 waste time. It was a turnover on me, a steal 0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:55.200 for you, and then we just got the ball back. 0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:57.840 I think I made one or two, but I don't remember. Actually, 0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:00.320 my the next year might ordered the two years Sally, 0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:04.080 my senior year, uh, when we kicked the dog shit 0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:06.600 out of you guys that I made. The guys started 0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:09.199 found me early and I started making making all of 0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:12.040 my making, all my free throat. Do you remember what 0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:13.800 the locker room was like when you lost to land 0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:20.400 oh Man, that was bleak because you remember the year 0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:24.040 before they got upset by Arizona. And in my opinion, 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:28.040 I thought that nineties seven team was one of the 0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:31.400 best teams in college basketball history that never won. They 0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:33.800 had that team gone through won the championship, they had 0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:36.119 have been forty and one, and I would hang my 0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:38.960 have them staying they're the best team in college basketball history. 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:41.359 I mean, I could really honestly say that lose the 0:25:41.400 --> 0:25:43.200 Arizona So there was a ton of pressure on us, 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:45.960 and then you know we're a one seed rode on 0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:48.879 into an eight seed, and I remember like in the 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:52.000 second half it kind of set in. We're like, we're 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:55.720 in a game here, worked down four or five. This 0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:58.800 is not going well. Coach starts freaking out in time out. 0:25:59.000 --> 0:26:01.520 He's getting on his hands and begging Ryan Robertson to 0:26:02.119 --> 0:26:05.840 change the sides of the court bringing the ball up. Um, 0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:09.080 It's just stuff was rapidly out of control. Then Katino 0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:13.840 and Entyson wore on fire, so like you thought, coming 0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:15.720 to the the last couple of minutes, and then when it's 0:26:15.760 --> 0:26:18.080 over to get the locker room, it was just going 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:20.960 through those emotions again. I mean I was close to 0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.000 the team as the high school. Seeing like now being 0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:25.960 in the locker room, it was like, God, this sucks. 0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:28.520 You know, I knew Race was done obviously he's a senior, 0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:30.639 and we knew Paul was going to go and it 0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:34.800 was just I'm her. Remember Matt already being just piste off. 0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:37.399 It wasn't like we were he was said, I remember 0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:40.960 our managers were like falling in tears. I mean I 0:26:41.000 --> 0:26:43.439 was kind of in shock. I looked over inside my 0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:45.080 locker was next to CB. I looked at the CB 0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:47.119 and I was he was just like on the ground 0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:51.560 with his head down. It was like I told people 0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:53.600 this a lot like if you you played a program 0:26:53.600 --> 0:26:57.000 like Kansas, if you don't win the Nation Championship, your seat, 0:26:57.080 --> 0:26:59.400 your complete season as a failure. And I don't care 0:26:59.440 --> 0:27:02.080 if you go if you go to the final four, Okay, cool, 0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:04.280 that's fine. We get a banner, we get a ring, gray, 0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:06.400 But like, what if you don't win the championship, it's 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:08.880 a complete failure, it really is. And that's the standard 0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:12.120 that Kansas has set, you know. And so it's it's 0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:14.600 a lot of pressure. It's too much pressure a lot 0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:18.040 of times for the players. And there's a few programs 0:27:18.080 --> 0:27:21.280 like that, do Kentucky, Kansas. You know, if you don't 0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:23.880 win it, it's it's a total failure, you know. So 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:27.280 but that's the that's the goals that we set, and 0:27:27.280 --> 0:27:29.159 that's the pressure we put upon ourselves. But I just 0:27:29.200 --> 0:27:31.960 remember how horrible that locker room was. It was. It 0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:35.480 was nowhere you wanted to be. It was awful. So 0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:38.520 you had a very good sophomore year in your junior year, 0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:45.840 and that's when Gooden Collison Heinrich, I'll show up, Um, 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:47.960 why why why did you lose your start in in 0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:51.240 like and like Roy is gonna cut you out the family? Now, 0:27:51.520 --> 0:27:56.640 why did you lose your starting spot? I mean part 0:27:56.640 --> 0:27:58.359 of it I think was like a self pulphion and 0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:00.639 prophecy for him. I mean, I really think it was 0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:04.960 like I, you know, I was the preseason all everything guy. 0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:08.800 I had come back, and you know, I'd gotten on 0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:10.800 as nervous about a few things. And I remember like 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:14.200 practice starting and and Nick and Drew really good, and 0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:17.240 I was doing my thing and we're doing fine. And 0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:20.800 then all of a sudden, like I remember, coach Holiday 0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:23.520 was gone for a practice or two, and I was like, 0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:25.840 as coach, I mean, w's Coach Holiday. He's like, oh, 0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:29.760 he's he's going to uh watch Cincinnati's practice and coach 0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:32.200 Huggins for a couple of days because he's learning how 0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:34.040 to we're gonna implement a press and I'm like, what 0:28:34.080 --> 0:28:36.720 are you talking about it? Because well, yeah, we're gonna start. 0:28:36.960 --> 0:28:38.840 You know, we're gonna speed up tempo. We've got so 0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:41.920 many guys are so deep. We're gonna just you know, uh, 0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:44.600 we're gonna press and change our style. And I remember 0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:48.320 thinking to myself, like, that's not what I kind of 0:28:48.360 --> 0:28:50.480 signed up for to come back for whatever. And then, 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:52.840 like I said, it just spiled out of control. There 0:28:52.920 --> 0:28:55.240 was you know, there was a lot of I mean, 0:28:55.760 --> 0:28:58.400 Kampus has five beat writers, like the Yankees have five 0:28:58.400 --> 0:29:01.560 beat writers. Like you know, every article was you know, 0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:04.760 channel with stocks and then it was you know, Jason 0:29:04.760 --> 0:29:06.960 Whitlaw's out there saying you got a bench channel. I mean, 0:29:06.960 --> 0:29:09.680 it just it was public, it was private. It just 0:29:10.120 --> 0:29:12.560 and then and I'll tell you what it is like 0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:17.760 in every player knows this, Like confidence is is everything 0:29:17.880 --> 0:29:19.880 in sports. I don't care who you are, what sport 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:23.000 you play. If you have confidence and you believe you 0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:25.640 can get something done, you can get it done. Like 0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:28.000 what John Wooden said, what do you whether you believe 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:30.680 you can do you can't, You're probably right right. I 0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:33.600 lost my confidence. I mean I just I didn't coach, 0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:36.720 don't believe me anymore. And and so I mean, it's 0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:39.280 really go ahead, No, what do you think happen to me? 0:29:39.440 --> 0:29:41.239 Like you and I grew up together, Like I can 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:43.920 shoot a basketball right, and then you get you get 0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:46.400 to this and you work all offseason and you're like, 0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:47.840 all right, I got this, I got this ship. I 0:29:47.840 --> 0:29:50.720 got this ship right, and then you know, and then 0:29:50.720 --> 0:29:52.480 you're in practice and you take one shot in your 0:29:52.520 --> 0:29:54.440 coach like no, no, no no, Like I remember with no Dame. 0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:57.800 And when I was in high school, we played kind 0:29:57.840 --> 0:29:59.880 of how people play now right, a lot outside and 0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:03.360 eyeball screen, come down, shooting, transition, come off a ball 0:30:03.400 --> 0:30:05.600 screen and shoot, or get get to the basket to score, 0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:08.440 get to the basket, kick off. And he was like, 0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:11.080 now you have to develop a mid range game. We 0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:13.880 had no secondary break. There was no transition threes like 0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:16.040 he took I made a transition three. He took me 0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:18.760 out late in the season, and you just start to 0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:20.719 go like, funck, he doesn't think I can make it. 0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:23.360 And then and for me, I think my problem would 0:30:23.360 --> 0:30:25.440 be I would work my ass off in the off 0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:27.880 season and really work, work, work, work, and then I 0:30:27.880 --> 0:30:30.840 get in the regular season, and it was so it 0:30:30.920 --> 0:30:34.840 was so emotionally and mentally taxing to go through practices 0:30:34.880 --> 0:30:37.239 and everything that I got beat up a little bit 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:39.120 in terms of how much I would work regular season, 0:30:39.120 --> 0:30:41.440 and so it would become kind of like first I 0:30:41.480 --> 0:30:43.719 would miss, I'd have a bad practice, miss some shots. 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:46.360 He'd say something about me trying to prove to everybody 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:48.920 I could shoot. I get down on myself. I would 0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:51.320 work a little bit less, and the less I worked, 0:30:51.560 --> 0:30:53.880 obviously the results weren't is good. And it it just 0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:56.720 kind of snowball, right, So I totally get it, like 0:30:57.240 --> 0:30:59.320 it's it's really kind of amazing thing. And I think 0:30:59.360 --> 0:31:02.520 the other thing that's interesting is both you and I, 0:31:02.640 --> 0:31:04.680 like we're kind of ship talkers, right. We grew up 0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:07.040 and we talked shot on each other on on Rome 0:31:07.080 --> 0:31:11.000 Show back in the day. I don't I don't know 0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:14.120 if our coaches, because I do think that Eddie said 0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:15.800 and he would tell me, like you're my whipping boy, 0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:19.160 You'll be my boy to day you finish you right, Like, hey, 0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:21.400 that's actually not the way to coach me in terms 0:31:21.400 --> 0:31:24.320 of my offensive game, right, Like I actually when you 0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:27.240 when you yeah, and when you learned that it's too late, 0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:28.920 like you learned that late in the season or late 0:31:28.920 --> 0:31:30.920 in your career. It's like because like I played for 0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:33.360 a really really good high Storming, a great high school 0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:36.640 coach who wrote me and you know, m asked me, 0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:39.080 I'll be down the court and everything. But but at 0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:40.720 the end of the day, like I played every minute 0:31:40.760 --> 0:31:42.719 and then he had he had confidenced me to get 0:31:42.760 --> 0:31:44.760 the job done. And so it was it was a 0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:48.040 two way street, whereas at the next level it's different 0:31:48.080 --> 0:31:50.920 because and I'll tell you this, you said, what point 0:31:51.360 --> 0:31:54.120 did things are wrong? I remember it was like two 0:31:54.200 --> 0:31:56.080 or three games into the season, and coach always made 0:31:56.120 --> 0:31:59.360 us run after practice and we were doing sprints, and 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:01.280 like I didn't make us one time because we had 0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:02.600 a two and a half hour practice and then we're 0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:05.920 doing thirty threes and he just singled me out and 0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:07.840 made me wrong until I threw up in everything. And 0:32:07.880 --> 0:32:09.800 I remember you stood over me one time when I was, 0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:12.840 you know, puking in a garbage trand and he said 0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:15.560 it very clearly and very loud that he said, Eric, 0:32:16.000 --> 0:32:18.920 we don't need you, you need us. And when he 0:32:19.080 --> 0:32:22.760 said that, you know, now, looking back, I probably should 0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:25.400 have had a conversation with my dad and say, hey, 0:32:25.520 --> 0:32:28.680 you know what I need to like hire an agent, 0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:31.640 go to the draft or transfer or something, because this 0:32:31.720 --> 0:32:33.960 is him clearly saying that we've moved on from you, 0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:36.760 you know, and that obviously when you're nine team playing 0:32:36.760 --> 0:32:39.320 a KU and having a blast, like you don't want 0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:41.640 to leave that program. But that's now looking back at 0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:44.080 something I probably could have done and should have done. Yeah, 0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:46.400 I actually actually here it would be my Here would 0:32:46.400 --> 0:32:48.720 be my as I look back at my own because 0:32:48.880 --> 0:32:51.080 because coach hapth me like, you can't trans because back 0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:53.040 then you couldn't transfer twice, you know, like I could 0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:56.160 have graduated early in transferred night after my junior year, 0:32:56.560 --> 0:32:59.160 I let the country and assist playing only twenty eight 0:32:59.160 --> 0:33:00.800 minutes a game because I was bench for like eight 0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:06.480 games um and and barely played anyway, the transferring would 0:33:06.480 --> 0:33:08.880 have been. But honestly, if I could go back, I 0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:11.280 would have just had an honest conversation with him, right like, 0:33:11.320 --> 0:33:12.560 and I don't know if you were able to have 0:33:12.640 --> 0:33:14.720 that with with Coach Williams, but just the idea of 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:17.840 going to coach set and like, look like again I 0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:20.280 have these imaginary conversation with coach Sutton had I just 0:33:20.320 --> 0:33:22.800 walked in and gone like, hey, listen, man, if you 0:33:22.840 --> 0:33:26.680 will just let me fire up six or seven threes 0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:29.920 a game, I'll make a couple. I'll make a couple 0:33:30.000 --> 0:33:32.400 like right, and and just not take Promise me you're 0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:34.680 not gonna take me out. I'll take good shots because 0:33:34.680 --> 0:33:37.400 they're all good shots, because nobody's sucking guarding me. Right Like, 0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:40.120 you just let me take a couple, everything else will 0:33:40.120 --> 0:33:41.560 open up. Like I know how to play back. You 0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:43.440 don't have to tell me. You can yell at me 0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:46.040 all you want, just don't. I I just hated coming out. 0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:48.880 I felt like I'd never get back in. And we 0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:52.240 had other guys on our team, Joe Atkins and Adrian 0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:54.400 Peterson be like, funk, I'm taking have to take me out. 0:33:54.400 --> 0:33:56.000 You can't win without me, and they come back in 0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:58.120 fire it. I just mentally couldn't do it, so I 0:33:58.120 --> 0:34:00.560 would shut down a little bit, and it was just 0:34:00.640 --> 0:34:04.160 kind of snowball I got. I'll remember clear as day. 0:34:04.320 --> 0:34:09.440 We played North Texas my senior year and all through preseason. 0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:11.960 I'm going against Victor Williams, a kid who was really 0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:14.200 good player. After I finished, he read he transferred his 0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:16.440 red shooting from Illinois State, and he was, I mean, 0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:18.640 he was hard for me. He was. He's quick as ship. 0:34:18.840 --> 0:34:21.759 He's a AU coach workout guru in Kansas City now, 0:34:22.760 --> 0:34:26.879 and I'm I had a really good preseason shooting the ball, 0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:28.880 but I was the only guy going against the legit 0:34:29.400 --> 0:34:31.279 high level D one player was guarding me because we 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:33.680 didn't we we played. We didn't even up the sides 0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:37.279 when we played in because coach didn't anyway. So we 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:40.520 come out, We're playing North Texas and they're like not 0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:42.520 guarding me at all. Guy at at the free throwing. 0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:44.239 So I'm like, funk it, I'm gonna shoot every time. 0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:48.000 I'm I understand, And I hit a couple against you guys, 0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:50.120 and and so and and slow he started guarding so. 0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:52.960 But this is early in the year, so they're playing 0:34:52.960 --> 0:34:56.000 off me. I take eighteen shots, I make six. Now 0:34:56.040 --> 0:34:58.680 I come in the locker room, and now I should 0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:03.239 point out, I had, uh eighteen assists or something in 0:35:03.320 --> 0:35:06.480 like something crazy in the game like I had. I'm 0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:11.239 gonna say, like fifteen points and sixteen assists and like 0:35:11.360 --> 0:35:14.759 two turnovers or whatever. So I come in and I've 0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:17.239 always grabbed a stat statuet as soon as I come in, 0:35:17.800 --> 0:35:21.759 because like, my brain is, what's everybody else doing? You know, 0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:23.960 I do want to see my numbers, but anybody who 0:35:23.960 --> 0:35:26.120 plays basketball at a high level usually knew you know 0:35:26.160 --> 0:35:28.000 your own numbers for the most part. Right, You're like, 0:35:28.040 --> 0:35:30.839 I know what I shot from you. So he just 0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:34.400 rips the ship out of me and says, you know, 0:35:34.520 --> 0:35:37.080 all you care about your status and as sists and 0:35:37.200 --> 0:35:42.000 points and you sixteen or I don't know, eighteen shots. 0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:44.040 Are you kidding me? I've never had a point guard 0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:46.239 in my life take eighteen shots, right, So it's like 0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:48.920 ringing in my head, like, look, they were all good shots. 0:35:49.360 --> 0:35:52.120 I was open, you know, and like his whole thing 0:35:52.160 --> 0:35:53.719 is like, don't take anything you can't prove to me. 0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:55.880 You can make seven or eight or ten unguarded in 0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:57.759 the gym, and I would like I'd make these shots 0:35:57.800 --> 0:36:00.439 in the gym. Anyway. We play which to a state 0:36:00.480 --> 0:36:02.839 the next game, and I'm so petrified to shoot and 0:36:02.880 --> 0:36:05.480 now they're like not guarding me at all, and it 0:36:05.600 --> 0:36:08.239 just made life really So I totally feel for you 0:36:08.280 --> 0:36:12.080 with the confidencing, you know, you just kind of lost 0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:14.360 your confidence, Like how bad was it for you, like 0:36:14.400 --> 0:36:18.399 what was what was what was that? Like? How bad 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:19.960 was it for me? I think it was about as 0:36:20.000 --> 0:36:23.400 bad as you get. You know, um, you know the 0:36:23.480 --> 0:36:26.160 blood don't damage starts setting in because I was, you know, 0:36:26.200 --> 0:36:27.920 projecting to be like a lot of a pick and 0:36:28.719 --> 0:36:31.600 all those different things and that was instantly taken away. 0:36:31.680 --> 0:36:34.280 So you see that go away with all the potential 0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:36.480 millions of dollars, which you know, you even know about 0:36:36.520 --> 0:36:39.680 when you're a young kid in college. It was just 0:36:40.320 --> 0:36:43.520 it was a really tough time. I remember, like losing weight. 0:36:43.600 --> 0:36:46.200 I remember we were on a losing streak and we 0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:49.880 all rallied together to shave our heads and solidarity, and 0:36:49.920 --> 0:36:54.000 so I looked, I looked gaunt, and I'm just awful. 0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:57.239 I mean, it's just a really really bad time in 0:36:57.280 --> 0:37:00.799 my life, I remember. And so yeah, and so I 0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:03.279 just remember after the season we are we lost to 0:37:04.760 --> 0:37:07.959 we lost to do UM in Puston, Salem, and after 0:37:07.960 --> 0:37:10.440 the game, coach was addressing the team and he singled 0:37:10.480 --> 0:37:13.680 me out and called me out and said, you know, basically, 0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:16.880 you know there's still a player there and you have 0:37:17.040 --> 0:37:19.960 a chance to redeem yourself, and I'm gonna challenge you 0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:23.440 to take it upon yourself too, you know, have a 0:37:23.480 --> 0:37:26.680 summer where you can become the player you were once 0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:30.200 before and and you know, come haven't come back. And 0:37:30.480 --> 0:37:32.160 it really inspired me. And I had one of the 0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:35.040 best summers anybody had in the history of summer workouts. 0:37:35.080 --> 0:37:38.600 Remember j Billis did an article on my summer workouts 0:37:38.600 --> 0:37:39.759 and I was, you know, I was working out with 0:37:39.800 --> 0:37:43.000 Tim Gurgerich and in Bob Thornton and at U c 0:37:43.080 --> 0:37:45.880 l a Men's Jim. I mean, I had a personal trainer. 0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:48.400 I did everything I could do to get back to 0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:50.959 where I was. But you get back there, you played 0:37:51.000 --> 0:37:53.160 ten games and then things, you know, the damage is 0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:55.600 obviously still done. So I then obviously slipped to the 0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:57.839 second round draft of the Mixed and started my professional career. 0:37:57.880 --> 0:38:01.800 But that that will call infidences is the most valuable 0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:04.640 thing any athlete could you ever have. I'll tell you. 0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:08.479 I mean, help number one and confidence number two. Yeah, 0:38:08.520 --> 0:38:14.640 it's it's interesting, it's um I think that in real sports, 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:22.000 especially in basketball, confidence and and maybe conditioning um uh, 0:38:22.040 --> 0:38:24.040 and and kind of culture kind of all those are 0:38:24.080 --> 0:38:29.560 three cs that I don't think in broadcasting or in 0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:33.879 fandom people understand, right, They just they don't get it. 0:38:34.560 --> 0:38:38.279 And you know that that there are times where you know, 0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:40.799 guys just you just run out of gas. Your coach 0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:42.799 may have. And I wanted to ask you about coach 0:38:42.840 --> 0:38:46.040 Williams in terms of practices in a second um where 0:38:46.080 --> 0:38:47.719 you you leave your you know, you leave your game 0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:50.880 on the practice floor or your confidence. You know, sometimes 0:38:50.920 --> 0:38:53.520 coaches just don't know how to coach kids. Sometimes kids 0:38:53.520 --> 0:38:56.440 go through these swings and confidence. Some kids are are 0:38:56.520 --> 0:38:59.480 not that good, but they believe they are that good, 0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:02.120 and some they just make shots to be like. That 0:39:02.200 --> 0:39:04.879 was Desert Mason's thing his senior year was coach would 0:39:04.920 --> 0:39:07.480 just feel him full of confidence and talk about how 0:39:07.480 --> 0:39:09.480 great he was now hard he played and like that 0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:11.920 dude can't shoot, and damn if he didn't make shots. 0:39:12.040 --> 0:39:15.640 And he became a great shooter just because he believed 0:39:15.640 --> 0:39:17.800 he and he and he would work more because it 0:39:17.840 --> 0:39:19.799 were as some of the rest of us we got 0:39:19.840 --> 0:39:23.880 beaten down because he was. He never praised us, like 0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:29.560 literally never. Um uh okay, I got a funny. It 0:39:29.680 --> 0:39:31.960 wasn't I'm sure funny from your perspective, but let me 0:39:31.960 --> 0:39:35.319 shouldn't share my perspective. So my senior year this is 0:39:35.360 --> 0:39:39.239 your junior year right where you're suffering through I think, 0:39:39.480 --> 0:39:41.920 or sophomore you're suffering through the malah It was your 0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:45.759 your junior year. You're suffering through the malaise. We were 0:39:45.760 --> 0:39:47.440 only a year apart, but in high school we were 0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:50.200 four years a part of huge thought out and transferred 0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:55.600 and red shirted and repeated, no, no, what year? What 0:39:55.680 --> 0:39:57.600 year did you? What year did you graduate high school? 0:39:57.640 --> 0:40:05.600 Ninety seven? Kay, that's not four years? Should yeah no, yeah, sure, yes, 0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:08.040 but but you said in high school we were four years. Differently, 0:40:08.080 --> 0:40:10.239 in high school, we weren't in eighth grade. We would 0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:12.759 have been eighth grade. Light Look, dude, when I was 0:40:12.760 --> 0:40:14.920 in eighth grade, this trustow when I was eighth grade. 0:40:14.960 --> 0:40:17.879 I finished eighth grade at Santiago Middle School. Okay, I 0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:23.000 was five ft tall one and five pounds, so so 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:25.839 my and my dad had told me, like, you're not ready. 0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:29.399 I wasn't emotionally, physically anything ready for high school. So 0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:33.480 during during that year, okay, during the fifteen months between 0:40:34.560 --> 0:40:40.040 June of whatever that was nineteen ninety and September of 0:40:40.239 --> 0:40:43.960 nineteen nine, one game, fifteen months when I entered high 0:40:43.960 --> 0:40:48.960 school at Tustin High School, uh in n. I was 0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:53.759 roughly like five nine five nine and a half a 0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:58.160 hundred in like twenty five pounds, right, that's like how 0:40:58.239 --> 0:41:01.200 much I had grown during that time period. And that 0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:06.400 year was a total total wash, like athletically everything, like 0:41:06.560 --> 0:41:09.719 I I understand that, like red shirting, and it's it's 0:41:09.760 --> 0:41:12.040 gotten to the point of being ridiculous. And we copied 0:41:12.080 --> 0:41:15.400 kind of the Mirnovich model a little bit um but 0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:19.040 but there will actually what when you graduated high school? Yeah, 0:41:19.080 --> 0:41:23.439 so anyway, so we're anyway, so so my my senior year, 0:41:24.000 --> 0:41:26.480 so my junior year, we lose to you guys. The 0:41:26.480 --> 0:41:29.279 only time I played a fog and that was the 0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:32.160 short time backwards game. But what people don't know about 0:41:32.160 --> 0:41:34.560 that game was a couple of things like one, I 0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:37.400 had a couple open shots in the last possession that 0:41:37.440 --> 0:41:39.600 I turned down and we end up kind of getting 0:41:39.640 --> 0:41:41.880 no shot and Fred Johncey didn't missed the front of 0:41:41.960 --> 0:41:44.000 like we should have beaten you in regulation, we didn't 0:41:44.600 --> 0:41:47.560 and coached never one up there and then and then 0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:52.880 we lost. Uncle Rico comments, we beat you. Hold on, dude, 0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:57.240 Robertson catches the ball in overtime him he got fouled. 0:41:58.239 --> 0:42:00.680 He did, he did not foul. I mean, we can 0:42:00.680 --> 0:42:04.719 put the video out. It is. It's one of them. 0:42:04.760 --> 0:42:09.080 I mean, like when when vital who you know, it's all. 0:42:09.239 --> 0:42:12.160 It's one of the most calls of sued anyway. So 0:42:12.320 --> 0:42:15.400 this is junior year. We lose up in in Lawrence 0:42:15.920 --> 0:42:18.520 and later and we have to stay overnight in Lawrence, 0:42:18.960 --> 0:42:20.880 and so we go out to the village in to 0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:24.080 get something to eat. And who's there but Ryan Ryan Robertson, 0:42:24.160 --> 0:42:27.439 who I'm jealous of because he's the starting point guard 0:42:27.440 --> 0:42:29.239 in Kansas and that's one of the places I wanted 0:42:29.239 --> 0:42:32.080 to go. Plus he gets his fucking bullshit call on 0:42:32.200 --> 0:42:34.640 senior night to save him because he didn't play well. 0:42:34.680 --> 0:42:37.520 Plus he didn't like me because in Sports Illustrated, I said, 0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:40.319 Kansas is really good except for their guards, right, And 0:42:40.400 --> 0:42:42.719 it's true. Our guards were better than your guards. I mean, 0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:46.120 you know, Bush's a good, good dude and a good coach, 0:42:46.160 --> 0:42:49.640 and he as good as Joe Atkins, and nobody was 0:42:49.640 --> 0:42:52.640 as good as Adrian Peterson and Desi Mason technically as 0:42:52.680 --> 0:42:55.640 a garden and you know, I thought I was better 0:42:55.680 --> 0:42:58.160 than Ryan. So like, like Louie had some dudes in 0:42:58.200 --> 0:43:00.960 the backcourt anyway. So I go up to Ryan. I 0:43:01.000 --> 0:43:03.560 was like, hey, man, congrats, but god, that was a 0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:07.080 bullshit called h bullshit way to end a great game. 0:43:07.520 --> 0:43:09.720 And he's like, what are you talking about? It's sucking 0:43:09.760 --> 0:43:12.360 foul were you talking like? He was so defensive about 0:43:12.400 --> 0:43:16.320 it that it was so fast forward to my senior 0:43:16.400 --> 0:43:19.560 year and we don't play you guys until I think 0:43:19.680 --> 0:43:22.640 later in the year. You're you're not playing very much. 0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:26.239 He's going with the younger dudes with Heinrich and Collinson 0:43:26.719 --> 0:43:31.520 and Gooding, and we kick the fucking dog shit out 0:43:31.560 --> 0:43:33.759 of you guys. We're up so many points in the 0:43:33.800 --> 0:43:36.440 second half. We went to delay game. We just started 0:43:36.480 --> 0:43:38.920 running our delay game stuff. Coach calls the time. I 0:43:38.920 --> 0:43:41.000 was like, Hey, I gotta go to Lawrence next year. 0:43:41.080 --> 0:43:43.600 Take it easy. We're not no fast breaks to take 0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:46.720 it easy anyway. So here's the here's the big question. 0:43:47.640 --> 0:43:51.120 So we're up, like we're seriously up forty and coaches, 0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:55.040 you know, doing everything he can to like actually it 0:43:55.120 --> 0:43:57.759 was eighteen in the first half and Bosh hits like 0:43:57.800 --> 0:44:02.000 an NBA three before break, like deep three. Somebody doesn't 0:44:02.000 --> 0:44:05.960 guard him, and we come in and guys are screaming 0:44:05.960 --> 0:44:07.920 at each other like who the funk left him open? 0:44:08.239 --> 0:44:10.600 Or you and coaches like I'm don't you're there coming brother? 0:44:11.239 --> 0:44:13.239 At that three, like we were so petrified that all 0:44:13.239 --> 0:44:16.600 of a sudden, you guys wake up and and you know, 0:44:16.680 --> 0:44:19.440 second half starts and Desmond goes crazy and I make 0:44:19.480 --> 0:44:21.360 a couple of shots and like when I make shots 0:44:21.360 --> 0:44:23.560 that the ship is over. I made free throws that night, 0:44:24.280 --> 0:44:28.520 and so we're in delayed, so it's probably I'm again 0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:30.560 my memory is really good, but this part I don't remember. 0:44:30.600 --> 0:44:32.600 It felt like it was like eight minutes to go 0:44:32.640 --> 0:44:35.960 in the game, and you guys start fouling me right 0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:38.520 to get to to get to the bonus to make 0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:41.520 me shoot free throws and Bowshee fouls me, gets his 0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:45.160 fourth foul and the this the staff turns up, sums up. 0:44:45.160 --> 0:44:47.759 It's like, don't foul you have four. The ball comes 0:44:47.760 --> 0:44:50.000 in bounds the very next play and he fouls again 0:44:50.120 --> 0:44:53.319 and he's like fuck this and he goes and sits down, 0:44:53.480 --> 0:44:56.680 and Coach Williams didn't stand up. Okay, so do do 0:44:56.719 --> 0:44:59.160 you guys, like there is a lot of pumbling wins 0:44:59.200 --> 0:45:02.080 you guys have. Do you remember it felt like it 0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:07.160 felt like you guys gave up. Well I didn't give up. 0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:09.640 I remember my minutes were really short at that time, 0:45:09.680 --> 0:45:11.880 so I wasn't I didn't really have a chance to 0:45:11.920 --> 0:45:14.440 contribute to do much. But I remember that game was 0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:16.560 over before it started. It was like within the for 0:45:16.680 --> 0:45:18.960 the first TV time out, it was like we were 0:45:18.960 --> 0:45:21.919 down twelve. And like I said, that was a part 0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:25.839 of the season where you know, we hated practices, we 0:45:25.840 --> 0:45:29.279 were you know, losing games. It was I mean we 0:45:29.360 --> 0:45:31.400 lost ten games that year and so and I don't know, 0:45:31.560 --> 0:45:32.960 that was towards end of the season, so we had 0:45:33.000 --> 0:45:35.000 lost you know, eight or seven games something like that, 0:45:35.080 --> 0:45:38.960 and coach had tried everything. He canceled practice and we 0:45:39.040 --> 0:45:41.920 go bowling. He he ran us he, I mean, we 0:45:41.960 --> 0:45:44.960 did everything, and it just we just couldn't. We just 0:45:45.000 --> 0:45:47.520 wouldn't click, you know, just I don't know, you know, 0:45:47.560 --> 0:45:50.279 there was that that was just a tough time of 0:45:50.280 --> 0:45:52.960 the year. So that was one of those situations where 0:45:54.080 --> 0:45:56.160 I've never given up, but it was just I mean 0:45:56.200 --> 0:46:00.680 I remember I vividly remember you know, Jeff can foul 0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:02.399 and kind of walking up the court and I'm tucking 0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:05.959 his shirt and like plopping down. I remember that, but like, yeah, 0:46:06.120 --> 0:46:07.560 that was not a fun night. I'm sure it was 0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:10.239 for you guys. Actually, actually, go ahead, good tell me 0:46:10.280 --> 0:46:11.560 a funny story. I have one to go ahead. But 0:46:11.960 --> 0:46:14.239 my my parents had seen a million games that I 0:46:14.320 --> 0:46:16.239 was good out, so they were like, hey, we want 0:46:16.239 --> 0:46:19.200 to start going seeing games like in these other big 0:46:19.239 --> 0:46:21.239 twelve towns. So my parents were that game and I 0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:24.960 remember I don't if you remember this, but I think 0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:27.239 it was my actually my senior we were playing there, 0:46:27.239 --> 0:46:30.360 but my mother was no senior. You didn't play there. 0:46:30.560 --> 0:46:32.200 Senior didn't play there. Okay, well then it was my 0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:36.080 junior or my mother was battling cancer and um, and 0:46:36.239 --> 0:46:38.759 she you know, she was stage three, but she was 0:46:38.880 --> 0:46:42.839 she was gonna make it. And I remember, um, you know, 0:46:43.320 --> 0:46:46.040 your fans there was a section right behind our bench 0:46:46.680 --> 0:46:48.799 and they would chirp at us, which is fine, but 0:46:48.840 --> 0:46:51.799 then one guy said something like, yeah, go home and 0:46:51.840 --> 0:46:56.320 cry to your Mommy channel with and so the subject 0:46:56.320 --> 0:46:58.400 of my mother was so delicate at the time. And 0:46:58.440 --> 0:47:00.640 you know, my dad us the ex college football players 0:47:00.680 --> 0:47:04.080 six to you know, three bills at the time. I 0:47:04.160 --> 0:47:06.520 looked back and all I saw was my dad going 0:47:06.680 --> 0:47:10.959 straight forward this guy and I was like, oh shit, 0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:14.040 you know this is gonna be national news. This is 0:47:14.719 --> 0:47:18.560 like and luckily, uh there was a state trooper that 0:47:18.640 --> 0:47:20.319 we had behind the bench and he heard and saw 0:47:20.360 --> 0:47:23.760 the whole thing and grabbed my dad and basically said, 0:47:24.160 --> 0:47:26.680 don't do this. This isn't worth it. They kicked the 0:47:26.680 --> 0:47:29.719 guy out, and now is it. But I remember, like 0:47:30.200 --> 0:47:33.240 just one thing after another. That was just a horrible, 0:47:33.320 --> 0:47:35.520 horrible year, horrible time. My mom was dick, I was 0:47:35.600 --> 0:47:38.600 losing my my you know, my draft spot, and I 0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:40.640 was falling in second round. We were losing games. It 0:47:40.760 --> 0:47:43.720 was I mean, I lost one of my best friends 0:47:44.000 --> 0:47:47.680 um at home and passed away, you know, in a 0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:51.000 motorcycle accident in the summer. It was the pits. It 0:47:51.120 --> 0:47:54.959 was awful and so um you know, just talking about 0:47:54.960 --> 0:47:59.000 it now brings back all those emotions, I know. But 0:47:59.080 --> 0:48:01.680 you know what the good news is my mother, uh 0:48:01.719 --> 0:48:05.360 you know, she's twenty years passed. She's made it through, um, 0:48:05.400 --> 0:48:07.479 you know, and and I ended up getting to play 0:48:07.520 --> 0:48:09.919 pro and things are going well now. So we made 0:48:09.920 --> 0:48:11.879 it through. But it was it was a really dark 0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:15.000 tough time. Yeah, I mean, like I get my junior 0:48:15.160 --> 0:48:17.200 was crazy dark too, like I led to leave the 0:48:17.320 --> 0:48:19.439 country and assists. But I went through this thing where 0:48:19.480 --> 0:48:22.520 I got I got thrown out of I got a 0:48:22.600 --> 0:48:24.520 tea and we lost to Florida Atlantic, and I got 0:48:24.560 --> 0:48:29.200 a bad tea and and we lost this game to 0:48:29.239 --> 0:48:32.440 a shitty team. I actually played had eighteen assists and 0:48:32.560 --> 0:48:36.000 played well, and and then and then and then we 0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:38.560 played U C l A at the Pond and I 0:48:38.600 --> 0:48:40.359 get two teas in the first half and we lose 0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:43.080 by three, and so I'm like, and then Glenn Alexander 0:48:43.080 --> 0:48:45.600 gets eligible, so I'm I'm the odd man out and 0:48:45.640 --> 0:48:48.480 he benches me for like eight games. You know, I'm 0:48:48.520 --> 0:48:51.160 petrified to shoot to do anything other than like be 0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:55.359 a robot out there. And and we massively under a tea. 0:48:55.400 --> 0:48:57.680 We were a top. I mean, if we would have 0:48:57.719 --> 0:49:00.160 played all our small guys and played small all the 0:49:00.160 --> 0:49:02.200 way that we played small before everybody else played small 0:49:02.200 --> 0:49:04.480 with Mason at the four. We played Mason at the 0:49:04.520 --> 0:49:06.879 five one time against Texas and came back and made 0:49:06.880 --> 0:49:08.719 it a close game, but he just wouldn't do it 0:49:09.080 --> 0:49:10.840 like we. We could have won the whole thing playing 0:49:10.880 --> 0:49:13.560 small anyway. My point is, like my junior was the 0:49:13.640 --> 0:49:18.480 ships too, like it was. It's really really hard, and um, 0:49:18.560 --> 0:49:22.360 I can't imagine, like one of the great things about 0:49:22.400 --> 0:49:24.960 being me, I look in still Water, I was a 0:49:24.960 --> 0:49:27.120 pretty big thing. Whatever. But I'm still a six ft 0:49:27.120 --> 0:49:28.880 white guy who can throw on a hat and a 0:49:28.920 --> 0:49:34.840 hoodie and disappear like you're a seven footer. At Kansas 0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:39.520 and anywhere you go, everybody knows you. What is What's 0:49:39.560 --> 0:49:43.040 that I've always wondered, like, what's that existence? Like when 0:49:43.160 --> 0:49:47.080 you literally cannot hide? It was awful, man. And I remember, 0:49:47.200 --> 0:49:50.520 like there's some the KU has a school paper of 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:53.680 the ud K, and you know, they pile it on 0:49:53.680 --> 0:49:56.360 the campus, so everybody reads the sting and in the 0:49:56.480 --> 0:49:59.760 in the u d K, the University Daily Cancer, there's 0:49:59.760 --> 0:50:02.160 a actually called the Free for All and you can 0:50:02.239 --> 0:50:04.719 call into an eight hunter number and say whatever you 0:50:04.760 --> 0:50:07.200 want and they will print it in the free for 0:50:07.239 --> 0:50:10.759 All section of the ud K. And so literally, for 0:50:11.040 --> 0:50:14.960 about two months straight, every every time, the first comment 0:50:15.120 --> 0:50:18.760 was Chenowa sucks, and then it was I mean literally, 0:50:19.200 --> 0:50:22.319 these are drunk frat boys or whatever calling in and 0:50:22.360 --> 0:50:25.319 they would print this. And so you know, obviously all 0:50:25.360 --> 0:50:27.480 school papers have the crossbrod puzzles. You always want to 0:50:27.520 --> 0:50:30.839 get to that. But like I remember, just I grab 0:50:30.880 --> 0:50:34.200 it every day, sit down and boom, it's right there. 0:50:34.320 --> 0:50:36.880 And then you look around and you're in a classroom 0:50:36.880 --> 0:50:39.080 with maybe it's the lecture hall there's two hundred people 0:50:39.080 --> 0:50:40.600 and there people are kind of looking back at you. 0:50:40.680 --> 0:50:43.040 And then maybe you're in a smaller class there's forty 0:50:43.040 --> 0:50:44.759 people and they're reading it and looking up at you. 0:50:44.800 --> 0:50:48.600 It's like you cannot escape it. In Lawrence, Cansas, there's 0:50:48.600 --> 0:50:52.240 a hundred thousands people in the city. There's students everywhere 0:50:52.239 --> 0:50:54.400 you go, every you walk, and it was it was 0:50:54.520 --> 0:50:58.960 really really odd, really awful time. The one saving grace 0:50:59.040 --> 0:51:02.319 was my groommate and teammage, Jeff Carry, who became one 0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:04.560 of my best friends in the whole world. And we 0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:07.840 would you know, he was just incredibly supportive of me 0:51:07.880 --> 0:51:10.080 and such a good friend and we I don't know 0:51:10.120 --> 0:51:11.840 what I would have done without him because he was 0:51:11.880 --> 0:51:13.840 a big guy, and so we'd go through practice together 0:51:13.920 --> 0:51:16.040 and he saw all the stuff that was going on, 0:51:16.120 --> 0:51:19.319 he saw me loose, support from every different angle, and 0:51:19.440 --> 0:51:21.400 he was really incredible. And I had I had a 0:51:21.440 --> 0:51:25.000 really nice girlfriend of time. She was she was really 0:51:25.000 --> 0:51:27.680 helpful to but like if it wasn't for those two people, 0:51:27.840 --> 0:51:32.040 like I don't, I can't explain. It was really dark times, 0:51:32.040 --> 0:51:34.439 it was really really hard. So if you could, if 0:51:34.480 --> 0:51:37.680 you if you could go back and do it again, 0:51:38.400 --> 0:51:41.000 you would have left after your left when he kind 0:51:41.000 --> 0:51:44.480 of when I would have left after my sophomore year. 0:51:44.920 --> 0:51:47.600 So I listen to this. So my sophomore year, I 0:51:47.640 --> 0:51:49.880 was the third player in Kansas basketball history at the 0:51:49.880 --> 0:51:53.120 average a double double in conference play, will Chamberlain, race 0:51:53.200 --> 0:51:55.960 La Friends Eric chenwith the only three players at that time. 0:51:55.960 --> 0:51:58.560 There's been players to do it since, but in that time, 0:51:58.560 --> 0:52:00.800 it's only three players in Can history to average a 0:52:00.800 --> 0:52:03.520 double double and conference play. And then I think I 0:52:03.560 --> 0:52:06.279 averaged like fourteen and ten or something like that. Had 0:52:06.320 --> 0:52:08.200 a really good year. I mean I showed all my 0:52:08.239 --> 0:52:11.359 strengths and all those different things. And I remember, like 0:52:11.520 --> 0:52:14.400 I when when you get recruited they go to Kansas, 0:52:14.600 --> 0:52:17.360 they coach gives you this like four year plan. Okay, 0:52:17.600 --> 0:52:21.160 freshman year, you're all freshman set. You know, Alvera mentioned 0:52:21.200 --> 0:52:24.320 all conference, and then sophomore year you're gonna be all conference, 0:52:24.400 --> 0:52:26.759 and then and then junior or you're all American and 0:52:26.760 --> 0:52:29.040 the Senior Player of the Year, and and so you 0:52:29.080 --> 0:52:31.160 had all these different goals that set out that you 0:52:31.160 --> 0:52:33.560 wanted to attain. And I saw Rape stay all four years. 0:52:33.600 --> 0:52:35.520 I saw Scott Polit's day for all four years. I 0:52:35.560 --> 0:52:39.000 saw Paul's day three years back there, guys just didn't 0:52:39.400 --> 0:52:42.160 leave that early. Remember Elton brand left and it was like, wow, 0:52:42.640 --> 0:52:45.200 you know he's only a sophomore. Well, so I had 0:52:45.200 --> 0:52:47.279 a meeting with coach and he was like, yeah, Eric, 0:52:47.320 --> 0:52:49.319 you know, you can go out and be a top 0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:51.080 fifteen pick, but you can come back and be a 0:52:51.160 --> 0:52:53.200 number one pick, you know. And I'm like, yeah, Coach, 0:52:53.239 --> 0:52:57.040 I'm gonna come back and be a number one pick. Well, people, 0:52:57.120 --> 0:52:58.759 what I what I know now, and especially when I 0:52:58.800 --> 0:53:00.719 do for a living now, A window to get in 0:53:00.719 --> 0:53:04.719 the NBA is very very very small, very small. And 0:53:04.800 --> 0:53:07.799 some guys can trick the system and sneak in the 0:53:07.800 --> 0:53:09.440 first round and get four years in the league and 0:53:09.480 --> 0:53:13.400 wash out. Some guys, you know, can can can have 0:53:13.480 --> 0:53:15.160 a different path to get to the n b A. 0:53:15.760 --> 0:53:18.480 But but for the most part, your window to get 0:53:18.480 --> 0:53:21.600 there is very small. So if anybody ever tells you, hey, 0:53:21.640 --> 0:53:24.680 you're the top fifteen pick, you have to go. You 0:53:24.680 --> 0:53:26.040 can buy all the insurance in the world, you can 0:53:26.080 --> 0:53:29.440 do everything you want, but there's too many different variables 0:53:29.520 --> 0:53:31.920 that can happen when you come back. And so and 0:53:31.960 --> 0:53:36.120 think about this when you come back or the combine 0:53:36.160 --> 0:53:38.759 or whatever, it's a devaluation period. When you're playing in 0:53:38.800 --> 0:53:40.879 the games, you're playing well, you're doing things supposed to do. 0:53:41.120 --> 0:53:43.560 It's an evaluation period. So when you come back after 0:53:43.600 --> 0:53:46.600 a really good year, all scouts are gonna do is 0:53:46.640 --> 0:53:49.560 try to pick apart what you can't do. Right. So 0:53:50.160 --> 0:53:52.560 I remember talking about it. I don't know if that's 0:53:52.600 --> 0:53:54.239 I don't know if I totally agree with that. I'll 0:53:54.280 --> 0:53:56.480 give you a give example. And look, this is a discussion. 0:53:56.520 --> 0:53:57.960 This is not we're not we don't have to go 0:53:57.960 --> 0:54:00.719 into you feel free to hop in. Okay, but you 0:54:00.800 --> 0:54:06.640 take I remember Harrison Barnes, okay, and um he got 0:54:06.640 --> 0:54:08.399 to the Warriors and didn't how to play. I talked 0:54:08.440 --> 0:54:10.840 to the people of the Warriors and they're like, yeah, 0:54:10.920 --> 0:54:13.160 he doesn't know how to play. I understand, but but 0:54:14.680 --> 0:54:17.080 but wait, you're you're you're telling me, but you're you're 0:54:17.120 --> 0:54:19.160 saying what you're telling me? What saying one thing and 0:54:19.160 --> 0:54:23.160 then saying the opposite, Right, you're saying that Harrison Barnes 0:54:23.360 --> 0:54:28.719 should leave, should leave after his freshman year. Um, but 0:54:28.840 --> 0:54:31.960 he didn't know how to play, right, So it's like 0:54:33.520 --> 0:54:36.080 from though, that's different, like he well, well here, let 0:54:36.120 --> 0:54:38.080 me let me share with my my perspective here. Okay, 0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:41.319 So again, and I don't I don't echo everything that 0:54:41.400 --> 0:54:46.440 every NBA scout says, um, because everybody has a different 0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:50.319 system of evaluation. Right. But but for me, you know, 0:54:50.400 --> 0:54:53.000 I watched him. He played two years at North Carolina, 0:54:53.320 --> 0:54:55.759 and obviously the second year he average like a point 0:54:55.800 --> 0:54:59.359 a half more UM. He shot roughly, he shot like 0:54:59.400 --> 0:55:03.720 two percent points higher from from the field. He shot 0:55:04.520 --> 0:55:07.759 I think one percent or two percentage points higher from 0:55:08.000 --> 0:55:12.560 three Okay, but the game was much easier. But like, look, 0:55:12.840 --> 0:55:16.400 he I thought he got better. Now he would have 0:55:16.440 --> 0:55:18.319 been a top ten pick if he came out his 0:55:18.360 --> 0:55:19.920 first year, he would have been top ten pick came 0:55:19.920 --> 0:55:23.880 out a second year. But there's the this do you improve? 0:55:23.920 --> 0:55:27.279 Do you like? My? I I understand the idea that 0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:30.040 all they do is pick you apart. All they do 0:55:30.080 --> 0:55:32.919 is pick you apart. My my thing is I try 0:55:32.920 --> 0:55:35.440 and pick apart, like, hey, has he improved? Is he 0:55:35.480 --> 0:55:38.440 getting better it? What's his body? Like? I think, honestly, 0:55:38.480 --> 0:55:42.279 you need two years of college because one, I want 0:55:42.280 --> 0:55:44.640 to see you the second year when you're more comfortable 0:55:44.640 --> 0:55:47.520 in the system, because, as you said earlier in the party, 0:55:47.640 --> 0:55:50.520 like your first year, ships moving so fast and you're 0:55:50.560 --> 0:55:52.640 just a robot and you're just and they're not really 0:55:52.719 --> 0:55:54.880 you know, look, we did this at Okahoma State, like 0:55:54.920 --> 0:55:57.080 my first year, even as a transfer, Like, they don't 0:55:57.080 --> 0:55:58.680 really coach you the first half of the year because 0:55:58.680 --> 0:56:00.359 they don't want to freak you out and they don't 0:56:00.360 --> 0:56:02.400 want and then all of a sudden, like January comes 0:56:02.640 --> 0:56:04.520 and they start streaming at you and film like what 0:56:04.560 --> 0:56:06.560 the funk are you doing here? You're like, well, sorry, 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:09.480 you didn't yell at me last week. What happened? Um? 0:56:09.560 --> 0:56:13.080 Whereas you're like your second year, now you the road 0:56:13.120 --> 0:56:15.480 games don't bother you, coaching doesn't bother you. You can 0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:17.399 just kind of be like your second and third years 0:56:17.400 --> 0:56:19.440 when you kind of find your your and and I 0:56:19.480 --> 0:56:22.080 think for scouts, you need that second year to see, 0:56:22.120 --> 0:56:24.520 all right, has this guy figured out Kenny running offense? 0:56:24.920 --> 0:56:27.640 Canny figure out scatter reports? Has he improved from your 0:56:27.680 --> 0:56:29.839 one year two. What's his body look like? Because guy's 0:56:29.920 --> 0:56:35.200 bodies changed dramatically between eighteen and and twenty one. UM, 0:56:35.280 --> 0:56:40.120 And so like you're you're kind of you're kind of saying, hey, 0:56:40.160 --> 0:56:41.719 you should go right away, but then saying, like a 0:56:41.719 --> 0:56:43.719 Harrison Barnes, like he got there and he didn't know 0:56:43.719 --> 0:56:47.480 how to play basketball. You didn't know if my NBA basketball. 0:56:47.480 --> 0:56:48.920 That's what I'm saying. That he didn't know how to 0:56:48.960 --> 0:56:52.280 play in the NBA type system, in the Carolina system, 0:56:52.320 --> 0:56:54.520 which you know, secondary break, the one, D two, B three, 0:56:54.560 --> 0:56:56.160 which we discussed and all these different things. But he 0:56:56.200 --> 0:56:58.879 didn't I'll not go to name the name, but someone 0:56:58.920 --> 0:57:00.719 from the Warrior said he did not know how to play. 0:57:01.239 --> 0:57:04.080 You know how to play and so but now, no, 0:57:04.600 --> 0:57:07.800 there's no exact formula across the board. Every situation is different, 0:57:07.800 --> 0:57:11.239 and I'm just saying in my situation, I played two years, yeah, 0:57:11.360 --> 0:57:13.359 and I remember and I know Mark working team very well. 0:57:13.360 --> 0:57:16.080 I've known him forever and I've known since I was 0:57:16.360 --> 0:57:19.240 fifth sixth grade. He told me. I remember two years 0:57:19.280 --> 0:57:21.400 later I saw him. He said, Eric, we were gonna 0:57:21.440 --> 0:57:23.080 he was in Portland's time. He said, we were gonna 0:57:23.080 --> 0:57:25.640 trade up to get the six team to pick you. 0:57:25.760 --> 0:57:27.560 He said, there's no way in hell you would have 0:57:27.640 --> 0:57:30.280 Philip past sixteen. And if you look at that draft, 0:57:30.720 --> 0:57:33.240 the first big guy drafted was Elton Branded. I don't 0:57:33.240 --> 0:57:35.880 know what he went with. It was high. The second 0:57:36.040 --> 0:57:39.520 seven quarter picked wasn't. It was a European who was 0:57:39.560 --> 0:57:43.000 playing on a juco in Kansas, who went twelve, who 0:57:43.040 --> 0:57:44.840 never played in the NBA ever. I don't know the 0:57:44.880 --> 0:57:47.280 guy's name. I got to look it up, but I was. 0:57:47.360 --> 0:57:49.480 I remember sitting that watching the draft, and I was like, 0:57:50.520 --> 0:57:53.800 what the like? I was? I was? I had known 0:57:53.840 --> 0:57:55.960 at that point I made the wrong decision. I probably 0:57:55.960 --> 0:57:58.680 should have gone because you could get there. But on 0:57:58.720 --> 0:58:01.360 the on the flip side, I have goals of getting 0:58:01.400 --> 0:58:03.200 to a Final Four, being an All American, all those 0:58:03.240 --> 0:58:06.200 different things. So and I'll tell you what, Doug. I 0:58:06.200 --> 0:58:08.600 don't know when the trend started of one and done. 0:58:09.040 --> 0:58:12.400 But unless for Earls and other examples less, Earl should 0:58:12.400 --> 0:58:14.600 have never gone to college. He should have gone straight 0:58:14.600 --> 0:58:17.040 to the NBA out of high school and he would 0:58:17.080 --> 0:58:19.760 have played the league for ten plus years. He went 0:58:19.840 --> 0:58:22.280 to college. He transferred from Ellis, who sat out and 0:58:22.400 --> 0:58:25.840 kneeds knee issues, bad medical care, and then all of 0:58:25.920 --> 0:58:29.560 a sudden he's done and now he's, you know, starting 0:58:29.560 --> 0:58:32.000 a new life doing something, not playing basketball. When you 0:58:32.040 --> 0:58:34.800 look at the pass and decisions that people take and 0:58:34.840 --> 0:58:36.280 if they have the right guy and to make the 0:58:36.320 --> 0:58:39.160 right decision, it's amazing what can happen in your life 0:58:39.160 --> 0:58:42.080 and your career at such a young age. So here's 0:58:42.080 --> 0:58:44.160 the question about less Earle. Okay, there's a question about 0:58:44.200 --> 0:58:46.920 less Earle. I'm gonna disagree with you in terms of 0:58:47.080 --> 0:58:49.640 he might have. Yeah, like I that you talked about 0:58:49.640 --> 0:58:53.680 foll by the way, was Alexander Radovitch from Barton New 0:58:53.680 --> 0:58:57.520 Community College. Yeah. Uh. And then and then Cal Bold 0:58:57.880 --> 0:59:02.240 played bad caw caw Boulder went seventeen to Atlanta out 0:59:02.280 --> 0:59:05.480 of O d U. He played three years in the league. Man, 0:59:05.560 --> 0:59:08.120 it is a bad big guy draft, bad bad big 0:59:08.200 --> 0:59:11.200 guy draft. So that's the window. That's what I'm talking about. Right. 0:59:11.280 --> 0:59:13.160 So so even if I wasn't ready, at least you 0:59:13.240 --> 0:59:15.160 get there and you get washed out or whatever, least 0:59:15.200 --> 0:59:16.520 you make it. You know what I mean. And that's 0:59:16.600 --> 0:59:22.120 the right I would say though that it's like I 0:59:22.240 --> 0:59:24.760 think for the NBA, I think it's a mistake to 0:59:24.960 --> 0:59:26.840 take the guys out of high school because you can't tell. 0:59:27.360 --> 0:59:31.080 Like I remember, I remember Sebastian Telfare that was at 0:59:31.080 --> 0:59:34.040 oh four whatever the big or oh five whatever the big. 0:59:34.280 --> 0:59:36.760 Maybe it's so five the big. The last big high 0:59:36.800 --> 0:59:40.560 school draft was Dwight Howard was in and the McDonald's 0:59:40.560 --> 0:59:43.240 American Game was in Oklahoma City and I was broadcasting 0:59:43.280 --> 0:59:46.880 it for ESPN, and you know, you watch the workouts 0:59:46.960 --> 0:59:48.840 and every night we go to Beers, the place that 0:59:48.960 --> 0:59:52.320 became Durant's Bar, with some some other bar there. And 0:59:52.360 --> 0:59:54.160 I remember sitting around with a bunch of these guys, 0:59:54.280 --> 0:59:56.200 was like, which one of you guys is gonna lose 0:59:56.240 --> 0:59:58.920 your job over Sebastian Telfare, Like what do you mean? 0:59:59.000 --> 1:00:01.840 I was like, he can't play fucking basketball. Like he 1:00:01.920 --> 1:00:04.600 can't play. They're like, what do you mean? I was like, look, 1:00:04.840 --> 1:00:08.680 he can make the passes and but he he can't shoot. 1:00:08.760 --> 1:00:10.840 He doesn't know when to do what he just knows 1:00:10.960 --> 1:00:12.880 like if I get the ball, every time I get 1:00:12.920 --> 1:00:14.840 the ball, my job is to try and break the 1:00:14.920 --> 1:00:17.240 guy down, get to the get to the rim, and 1:00:17.320 --> 1:00:21.960 if help comes, kick off for a dunk like that's it. Yeah, right, 1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:23.720 But it's not even just get buckets. It's just like 1:00:23.960 --> 1:00:27.200 every and that's not how you play basketball, Like you 1:00:27.280 --> 1:00:29.680 got to move sometimes the best play is just to 1:00:29.760 --> 1:00:31.880 pass the ball and and get the funk out of 1:00:31.920 --> 1:00:34.280 the way. And he like he had no idea how 1:00:34.360 --> 1:00:37.160 to play, and you could see in his interactions like 1:00:37.280 --> 1:00:41.600 he didn't really understand how to be a leader. Even 1:00:41.680 --> 1:00:45.800 though guys looked up to him, he was so interested 1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:48.360 in being Bassie that he wasn't like you just watched 1:00:48.400 --> 1:00:50.560 you like this is a disaster, this is bad. That 1:00:50.680 --> 1:00:53.160 kid needs college. He needs a coach, motherfucking for a 1:00:53.200 --> 1:00:56.000 couple of years. For every example like that, there's another 1:00:56.040 --> 1:00:59.160 example of someone who didn't make the right decision by 1:00:59.360 --> 1:01:03.320 going early or what happened. And so for him, I mean, 1:01:03.440 --> 1:01:05.320 his older brother played in the NBA, and he was 1:01:05.920 --> 1:01:08.520 he was, but his being to who he matched out 1:01:08.920 --> 1:01:11.800 at a young age, and Melvin Mel his brother mel 1:01:12.120 --> 1:01:14.240 he had a half brother step brother play the NA. 1:01:14.960 --> 1:01:18.520 Mean you mean Jamal Jamal Thomas. I don't think. I 1:01:18.560 --> 1:01:20.920 don't think Jamal ever played in the NBA. But I 1:01:21.000 --> 1:01:23.240 played with him in the A B A. Yeah, I 1:01:23.360 --> 1:01:25.800 played with him in Nick Summerwick, So I know he's 1:01:25.800 --> 1:01:27.680 a great guy. By the way, he is a great guy. 1:01:27.800 --> 1:01:31.760 But yeah, but I just I mean and a and 1:01:31.840 --> 1:01:34.080 a good player. And he went by five. He I 1:01:34.200 --> 1:01:36.560 wasn't allowed to come, so he played this true story. 1:01:36.600 --> 1:01:38.560 I played with Phoenix with him in the A B 1:01:38.760 --> 1:01:42.120 A UM. I think we were Actually this is a 1:01:42.160 --> 1:01:46.040 true story. I didn't even know until a couple of 1:01:46.040 --> 1:01:50.280 weeks ago that our nickname was the Eclipse, the Phoenix Eclipse. 1:01:50.560 --> 1:01:52.640 I played for a deem and I didn't know, and 1:01:52.800 --> 1:01:57.360 Mas track was my coach. How about that? So so 1:01:57.520 --> 1:02:00.400 Mass my coach and he goes and I just got 1:02:00.440 --> 1:02:02.160 the plane from Israel. I left my team in Israel 1:02:02.160 --> 1:02:04.439 to come play from mas and for the Phoenix team 1:02:04.800 --> 1:02:08.520 and they had um and and Jamal was there. And 1:02:08.560 --> 1:02:10.640 I played against Jamel in college at that Notre Dame, 1:02:11.160 --> 1:02:13.160 and I was like, I was like, what up, Mel, 1:02:13.240 --> 1:02:15.840 He's like, don't call me that. I was excuse me, 1:02:16.120 --> 1:02:19.520 Like I go by five, Like like Jamal is my 1:02:19.640 --> 1:02:23.360 government name. He was in this like that's my government name, 1:02:23.680 --> 1:02:26.560 and call me call me five, Okay, So I remember 1:02:26.600 --> 1:02:29.120 we're go ahead. Yeah. I was summarily with the Knicks 1:02:29.160 --> 1:02:34.200 and and uh Cliff and Tibbs and Jeff and the 1:02:34.320 --> 1:02:36.520 only called him out. They did. And I don't think 1:02:36.520 --> 1:02:37.960 it's gonna tell the coach now to call him oult 1:02:37.960 --> 1:02:40.880 what we call him out. Okay, So you get drafted 1:02:41.000 --> 1:02:46.040 in the second round the NBA draft. Okay, Um, what happened? 1:02:46.080 --> 1:02:51.280 Then immediately on a flight out to New York. Um 1:02:51.840 --> 1:02:55.120 you staying at the Marriott resident in on Parker Avenue 1:02:55.120 --> 1:02:58.240 and White Plains, New York. Uh. And then I was 1:02:58.360 --> 1:03:00.520 it was me. They drafted Michael Wright God rest his 1:03:00.600 --> 1:03:03.400 soul um after me, two picks after me, and so 1:03:03.480 --> 1:03:06.760 it was me and him, Steve Clifford, Tom Thibodeau and 1:03:07.440 --> 1:03:10.520 at Sunny purchased every day for six hours. I mean 1:03:10.600 --> 1:03:14.600 it was literally it was hot gym no A C. 1:03:15.440 --> 1:03:19.000 And we would do you know, workout starts at nine, 1:03:19.040 --> 1:03:20.959 so you get there at eight thirty or so, get dress, 1:03:21.040 --> 1:03:24.400 get out there, you stretched, loosen up. We do two 1:03:24.520 --> 1:03:29.480 hours literally two hours of spot shooting, shooting drills, ball, 1:03:29.560 --> 1:03:34.000 having different drills, whatever, um break, get launch, go back, 1:03:34.640 --> 1:03:37.280 lift weights for an hour, cardio for an hour. And 1:03:37.560 --> 1:03:40.240 mind you, this is in New York in the summer, 1:03:40.400 --> 1:03:42.040 which you lived up there, you know how it is 1:03:42.200 --> 1:03:46.000 it's brutal, but every day all the way leading up 1:03:46.040 --> 1:03:51.040 to camp, and I remember, um, you know, then obviously 1:03:51.120 --> 1:03:53.840 I was you know, I did on September eleven, Um, 1:03:54.520 --> 1:03:57.760 I had an appearance with fives of Pharmaceuticals were doing 1:03:57.760 --> 1:04:00.439 a healthy living promotion. So I was on a second 1:04:00.440 --> 1:04:02.760 and second at the part of the pharmaceuticals building doing 1:04:02.800 --> 1:04:06.440 a promotion there. When the two planes hit, I had 1:04:06.480 --> 1:04:09.200 to obviously walk up to the Upper East Side and 1:04:09.280 --> 1:04:10.680 take a train out of the city back up the 1:04:10.720 --> 1:04:15.120 white planes. But I remember, you know, going through that summer, 1:04:15.760 --> 1:04:19.040 going through that that event on September eleven, and then 1:04:19.280 --> 1:04:21.240 kind of feeling like I earned my stripes. You know, 1:04:21.440 --> 1:04:23.880 I thought, Okay, I have a chance to make this roster. 1:04:24.000 --> 1:04:27.560 And I remember, like a week before camp, Jeff van 1:04:27.600 --> 1:04:29.640 Gundy pulls me in his office and he goes, hey, hey, Eric, 1:04:30.480 --> 1:04:32.960 I just want you know that you're not gonna make 1:04:33.000 --> 1:04:35.880 this team, so um, do whatever you gotta do. It's 1:04:35.920 --> 1:04:38.520 something of the sort like that. And so I was, 1:04:38.640 --> 1:04:42.680 like it was it was pretty hard pill to swallow, 1:04:42.800 --> 1:04:45.360 just because you know, I've worked so hard, I've been 1:04:45.440 --> 1:04:48.840 through so much. I was developing relationships with the guys 1:04:48.880 --> 1:04:50.960 on the team. And then all of a sudden, at 1:04:51.000 --> 1:04:54.280 the eleventh hour, when all camp spots are full, I 1:04:54.360 --> 1:04:56.280 get the rug pulled out and I now got to 1:04:56.280 --> 1:04:59.080 scramble to find a place to go, and so um 1:04:59.320 --> 1:05:01.480 and I and I later on I heard the backstory 1:05:01.520 --> 1:05:05.240 behind this where Scott Layden really liked me and wanted 1:05:05.280 --> 1:05:07.400 to pick me. Um. And so they're in the war 1:05:07.520 --> 1:05:09.919 room a draft night, and I guess guys were throwing 1:05:09.960 --> 1:05:12.760 out names and Scott Leyden kind of pounded the table 1:05:12.760 --> 1:05:14.960 and said, up, we're picking Channel with and everybody half 1:05:14.960 --> 1:05:17.640 the room was good with it. Half was like, oh God, 1:05:17.680 --> 1:05:21.400 here we go, and so um. It just obviously they 1:05:21.520 --> 1:05:23.880 kept Michael right until the very last second and cut 1:05:23.960 --> 1:05:26.200 him with forty hours left on the waiver line, and 1:05:26.280 --> 1:05:29.439 so um, you know it was it was a really 1:05:30.000 --> 1:05:31.880 I don't making excuses, it was at it. You know. 1:05:31.920 --> 1:05:34.600 I gave me an opportunity, which I appreciate, but it 1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:36.760 was a really difficult situation for me. I went to 1:05:36.840 --> 1:05:39.120 Camp A Sacramento, theready have picked in the guaranteed spots, 1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:41.960 basically went there to get a pair of socks whatever 1:05:42.120 --> 1:05:43.760 and go to camp, get the field and then it 1:05:43.840 --> 1:05:46.080 was off the D League and overseas, and my journey 1:05:46.120 --> 1:05:49.320 and career started from there. But um, I do remember 1:05:49.600 --> 1:05:51.960 being drafted and how good of a feeling that was 1:05:52.120 --> 1:05:54.600 and how exciting it was, and it was a really 1:05:54.680 --> 1:05:57.080 nice moment to share with my family and especially my 1:05:57.160 --> 1:06:00.760 mom who had just beaten cancer, and so um it was. 1:06:01.480 --> 1:06:03.560 It was, you know, a sign of a comeback, not 1:06:03.680 --> 1:06:05.200 a full comeback. Obviously I wish I had gone in 1:06:05.240 --> 1:06:08.200 the first round, but it was. That was actually a 1:06:08.240 --> 1:06:11.920 really good time in my life, opposed to two years before. 1:06:12.200 --> 1:06:17.000 You know, um uh okay, then you one year you 1:06:17.080 --> 1:06:18.760 had a I thought you were going to make the 1:06:18.880 --> 1:06:22.880 Lakers Like that one made sense to me. Yeah, yeah, 1:06:22.960 --> 1:06:25.960 that was interesting. So I remember I went to camp 1:06:26.040 --> 1:06:27.400 with like I said, it went with it. It was 1:06:27.480 --> 1:06:29.160 the Knicks, and then went to the Sacramento for camping 1:06:29.240 --> 1:06:30.760 D League and then in O two I went to 1:06:30.800 --> 1:06:32.400 camp with Seattle, got cut there and went to the 1:06:32.480 --> 1:06:35.920 D League, and um, I remember I was playing the 1:06:36.000 --> 1:06:38.640 D League and I got no members. Valentine's Day of 1:06:38.920 --> 1:06:42.480 two three, the coach he cut me on the tarmac. 1:06:42.560 --> 1:06:44.000 He's like, Eric, this isn't working out. We're gonna go 1:06:44.080 --> 1:06:46.320 lect you go and I said, okay. So Ajan called 1:06:46.360 --> 1:06:48.560 me with a bunch of different opportunities overseas and whatever, 1:06:48.640 --> 1:06:50.120 and I said, you know what, I need to get 1:06:50.160 --> 1:06:52.200 back to the drawing board. And I remember I came home. 1:06:52.720 --> 1:06:54.520 I hired a guy named Todd Norman as a trainer, 1:06:54.920 --> 1:06:56.640 the Cutting Edge here in Orange County. So I just 1:06:56.960 --> 1:07:01.760 dedicated myself to improving my body, getting mentally, you know, strong, 1:07:01.880 --> 1:07:04.160 physically strong, rols, different things. I started working out with 1:07:04.400 --> 1:07:06.760 an individual coach named Jody Gardner, who's out here is 1:07:06.760 --> 1:07:08.800 a really good individual guy. And then when all the 1:07:08.960 --> 1:07:11.000 NBA guys came back for the summer, Shaan ro Shawn 1:07:11.040 --> 1:07:13.880 Marks and all those guys. You know, I just dedicated 1:07:13.920 --> 1:07:17.760 myself to getting becoming a better athlete, becoming a better player. 1:07:18.400 --> 1:07:22.600 And I remember the Lakers, um you know, invited me 1:07:22.680 --> 1:07:24.720 to the summer league team and I played really well 1:07:24.800 --> 1:07:27.320 on that team, and then they invited me to camp, 1:07:27.440 --> 1:07:30.880 and I remember, you know Phil, I felt like Phil 1:07:30.960 --> 1:07:34.040 liked me because Coach Jackson liked me because I, you know, 1:07:34.200 --> 1:07:36.120 challenged shack. At the time, I'd gotten up to two 1:07:37.000 --> 1:07:40.280 pounds and I was I was pretty well put together 1:07:40.320 --> 1:07:42.640 at the time because before I had been the little 1:07:42.680 --> 1:07:44.800 skinny and so I put my you know, I was 1:07:44.840 --> 1:07:47.320 benching three thirty pounds of squatting four hunder pounds, and 1:07:47.400 --> 1:07:49.360 I wasn't really really good ship and I was really strong, 1:07:49.560 --> 1:07:52.400 and so Phil like the fact that I could challenge 1:07:52.400 --> 1:07:55.120 shack and practice and so you know, I had that 1:07:55.400 --> 1:07:58.200 entire summer every day at the facility working out and 1:07:58.840 --> 1:08:02.040 um and then working out with coach Rambis and the 1:08:02.120 --> 1:08:05.080 whole staff there was fantastic. And so we get to 1:08:05.200 --> 1:08:08.360 camp and actually Phil started me in a couple of games, 1:08:08.400 --> 1:08:10.520 which was pretty crazy. We only we had a T 1:08:10.720 --> 1:08:14.480 and T game at at Staples Center and Phil wrote 1:08:14.520 --> 1:08:15.920 up on the board chennow with and I'm like I 1:08:16.040 --> 1:08:18.240 looked around and I was like, this is a shoot around. 1:08:18.960 --> 1:08:21.400 And so I knew all day I was started for 1:08:21.479 --> 1:08:24.400 the Lakers. And I'll never forget Gennaro Pargo. We were 1:08:24.400 --> 1:08:27.160 walking through our cars and He's like, damn, and you 1:08:27.280 --> 1:08:29.799 started with the Lakers man, And he was like teasing 1:08:29.800 --> 1:08:32.200 me about it, and Kareem Rush was and Luke Walton 1:08:32.200 --> 1:08:34.200 and Brian Cook all those guys were like hey, like 1:08:34.840 --> 1:08:37.080 and I first split second thought, I was like, I'm 1:08:37.080 --> 1:08:40.400 gonna make this team. This is crazy. And then I 1:08:40.439 --> 1:08:43.200 remember Steve Kirk, who I was, you know, a buddy 1:08:43.240 --> 1:08:45.800 and I really respect him. He was like, you know, 1:08:45.960 --> 1:08:48.679 I've been monitoring Eric for his you know, short career 1:08:48.760 --> 1:08:50.360 so far, and I think he's good enough to make it. 1:08:50.479 --> 1:08:52.040 And I think Eric's gonna make this roster. And I 1:08:52.080 --> 1:08:55.240 remember my dad hearing that. I mean, everything was aligned 1:08:55.400 --> 1:08:59.240 to make the team. And then right towards the Brian 1:08:59.320 --> 1:09:04.920 Russell Uh hurt his knee and um he required surgery. 1:09:04.960 --> 1:09:06.960 He was gonna about for two months, and so Mitch 1:09:07.080 --> 1:09:09.160 called me in and said, Eric, we cannot cut someone 1:09:09.240 --> 1:09:12.240 if they're not healthy. You have to pass your as 1:09:12.360 --> 1:09:16.960 exit physical in order to be released. Well, he cracked 1:09:17.000 --> 1:09:19.000 his knee and had surgery whatever, and he says, we 1:09:19.080 --> 1:09:24.040 can't cut him, so we're gonna cut you. And that 1:09:24.280 --> 1:09:27.760 one really really stung because I've done so much to 1:09:27.840 --> 1:09:30.639 get to that point. I'd really developed a relationship with Shaq, 1:09:31.840 --> 1:09:34.000 Kobe even respected me. I felt like a little bit. 1:09:34.120 --> 1:09:36.760 We did the King's Drill where there's four big men 1:09:36.880 --> 1:09:38.639 of one on one on the post was me, Shaq 1:09:38.720 --> 1:09:45.519 car Malone, um Um Uh Sampson and another big guy 1:09:45.600 --> 1:09:48.439 Kimeron who was horse Grant one on one of the 1:09:48.479 --> 1:09:52.280 post to five and it Shack car all these names 1:09:52.320 --> 1:09:54.840 and I won the first one to five. I won it. 1:09:54.920 --> 1:09:56.800 It's called the King's Game. And when we came back 1:09:56.840 --> 1:10:00.280 to the center in like Phil was like one and 1:10:00.280 --> 1:10:01.960 and I didn't say anything. I just stood there with 1:10:02.000 --> 1:10:04.040 a mouth shut in Shack was like the other big 1:10:04.160 --> 1:10:07.040 order women. And Kobe looked at me and I gave 1:10:07.080 --> 1:10:08.680 me like a punch on the chest, like all right, 1:10:08.720 --> 1:10:10.360 o se because he comes from March kind of call. 1:10:11.280 --> 1:10:13.200 And that was like a feeling of like wow, I'm 1:10:13.240 --> 1:10:16.040 like I'm gonna make it anyway. And then Brian Russell. 1:10:16.520 --> 1:10:18.600 Fast forward two years later, I was in camp with 1:10:18.720 --> 1:10:21.040 the Nuggets. The same thing happened there too. I had 1:10:21.080 --> 1:10:22.840 a really good chance of making the team and he 1:10:22.960 --> 1:10:26.760 got hurt again and U and they had to keep him. 1:10:26.840 --> 1:10:29.360 So that was my fortune and that's how it goes. 1:10:29.439 --> 1:10:32.880 But that's you know. But still that month with the 1:10:32.960 --> 1:10:36.080 Lakers in camp was the best experience I've ever had 1:10:36.280 --> 1:10:38.559 in my life in any level. It was so funny, 1:10:38.560 --> 1:10:40.800 so that the thing I liked about and I was 1:10:40.880 --> 1:10:44.360 at the Lakers three different times in I did the 1:10:44.439 --> 1:10:48.000 I did Summer league? Was it oh one summer league? 1:10:48.040 --> 1:10:49.800 Oh one Summer league? This is when you were at 1:10:49.800 --> 1:10:52.880 the Knicks um and I played in the Summer league team, 1:10:52.880 --> 1:10:56.280 and the all three years I did, uh like they 1:10:56.280 --> 1:10:59.680 had a vet minicamp before you went to Hawaii and 1:10:59.800 --> 1:11:03.080 like the first the first year, I I literally flew 1:11:03.120 --> 1:11:05.000 back from Italy. I was, I was with the team 1:11:05.040 --> 1:11:07.720 in Italy, and I thought I had this shot to 1:11:07.880 --> 1:11:10.240 it was me and Mike Pemberty, and I did everything 1:11:10.400 --> 1:11:14.320 better than Mike Pemberty except that dude could fucking shoot, like, 1:11:15.520 --> 1:11:17.600 I mean, he could just fun he coaches with him now, 1:11:17.600 --> 1:11:20.040 I mean, he can fucking just shoot the fucking ball. 1:11:20.720 --> 1:11:23.479 And and I didn't really and like triangles a bad 1:11:23.560 --> 1:11:25.519 offense for me, but you know, Tex helped me get 1:11:25.600 --> 1:11:27.479 in there, and then they liked me and they're like, hey, 1:11:27.920 --> 1:11:29.880 you know, go play overseas and come back. So I 1:11:30.000 --> 1:11:32.840 came back from Russia and now I was good. But 1:11:32.960 --> 1:11:35.840 they had also brought in Pemberthy and Joe Crispin, who 1:11:35.880 --> 1:11:38.800 can also fucking shoot, and both those dudes made it 1:11:39.040 --> 1:11:42.120 and I didn't. Then the third year, those guys, I 1:11:42.360 --> 1:11:43.920 think the third year those guys were both kind of 1:11:43.960 --> 1:11:47.519 embedded in the roster, and by then I was like 1:11:47.840 --> 1:11:50.320 I was good, Like I could hoop and I had 1:11:50.360 --> 1:11:52.400 gotten rid of some of the mental ship and I 1:11:52.560 --> 1:11:55.840 understood the offense. But you know, it's like, look, you 1:11:56.240 --> 1:11:59.960 like a limited shooter, as no matter how good athletically 1:12:00.040 --> 1:12:01.759 year off pick and roll, you are in that offense 1:12:01.880 --> 1:12:04.160 as a third point guard, like they don't really fucking 1:12:04.200 --> 1:12:07.680 need you. But what I loved about the Lakers was, um, 1:12:07.960 --> 1:12:10.360 they treat every dude like I even when I knew 1:12:10.360 --> 1:12:12.679 I wasn't gonna make it like I'd come in, I'd 1:12:12.680 --> 1:12:14.880 get massages, I work out like. They treat you just 1:12:14.960 --> 1:12:17.080 like you're on the team. But there is something too 1:12:17.120 --> 1:12:19.040 that when you walk down that when we walk down, 1:12:19.120 --> 1:12:20.680 as you know, you check, you walk in, you say 1:12:20.760 --> 1:12:22.920 hi to the receptionists, you walk and then you see 1:12:22.960 --> 1:12:25.439 these pictures of all these incredible Lakers, like funk I 1:12:25.479 --> 1:12:27.960 could be on the Lakers. I'm like this close, and 1:12:28.040 --> 1:12:30.080 then Mitch comes in, He's like, hey man, we think 1:12:30.120 --> 1:12:32.759 you're great. You should really think about the D League 1:12:33.240 --> 1:12:35.200 and we'd think about calling you up. And when I'm like, 1:12:35.280 --> 1:12:37.760 wait that that I was just walking down thinking I 1:12:37.840 --> 1:12:41.280 was making the team anyway. Okay, so so what you 1:12:41.439 --> 1:12:47.080 do now is you have you insure you insure uh, 1:12:47.680 --> 1:12:49.479 some of the great athletes in college. Like how did 1:12:49.560 --> 1:12:52.719 you get into this and what do you actually do? Yeah? 1:12:53.120 --> 1:12:56.519 Thank good questions. So obviously retired away got in the 1:12:56.560 --> 1:13:00.000 coaching for a couple of years. Made no sense. So umo, folks, 1:13:00.160 --> 1:13:01.760 job was finding a job and I almost took a 1:13:01.840 --> 1:13:04.920 job at a d g um Philip and Shoots is 1:13:05.000 --> 1:13:06.400 that you know? K you guys? So you fought to 1:13:06.479 --> 1:13:08.479 a resume and almost did something there and right before 1:13:08.520 --> 1:13:11.280 I did it? Wait wait wait, Philip and Shoots is 1:13:11.320 --> 1:13:12.560 a K you guy. I want to make sure that 1:13:12.600 --> 1:13:16.479 people understand this. Okay, this this is really really this 1:13:16.600 --> 1:13:18.560 is a big This is my big thing. Okay. And 1:13:18.640 --> 1:13:20.800 I understand what you're saying about going straight at a 1:13:20.880 --> 1:13:23.559 high school to to to to the pros if you can. 1:13:24.120 --> 1:13:26.479 The problem with it, by my estimation, is there'll be 1:13:26.560 --> 1:13:28.360 so many kids that go they'll end up in the 1:13:28.439 --> 1:13:30.800 G league. They don't understand. Everyone talks about the value 1:13:30.800 --> 1:13:32.880 of college and I pisses me off, and there's no 1:13:32.960 --> 1:13:35.760 value to college. First, like, there's lots of jobs you 1:13:35.800 --> 1:13:37.720 can't have without a degree. But the big thing you 1:13:37.800 --> 1:13:40.439 get in college is like you're part of that school 1:13:40.600 --> 1:13:44.040 and basketball programs family. And here's the perfect example if 1:13:44.080 --> 1:13:46.639 you wanted to get into coaching, I'm guessing coach Williams 1:13:46.720 --> 1:13:51.280 Carolina family. There's there's you could find NBA or college. 1:13:51.479 --> 1:13:55.280 Somebody would find a chair for you. Correct a very 1:13:55.400 --> 1:13:59.120 very small chair, grinder chair, but at least the chair, guys. 1:14:00.080 --> 1:14:01.920 Job offers I got was like thirty grand as a 1:14:02.040 --> 1:14:04.720 video coordinator in X Y Z, right, But but like 1:14:04.840 --> 1:14:07.040 but like look c b CB started there and look 1:14:07.080 --> 1:14:08.880 where he is now, and look at it like that's 1:14:09.160 --> 1:14:12.920 I mean, like I understand the coach Jared had I 1:14:13.000 --> 1:14:14.880 mean that's that's I mean, look, Coach Williams started as 1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:17.880 a manager and now he's you know, he's arguably the 1:14:17.920 --> 1:14:20.920 most successful coach you know, in the history of the sport. 1:14:21.080 --> 1:14:25.400 So um okay. The other part is like like you said, 1:14:25.439 --> 1:14:28.080 like Philip Manchew's can make a call for you because 1:14:28.120 --> 1:14:31.240 he's a Kansas guy. And I don't know if enough 1:14:31.320 --> 1:14:33.519 people understand like this is really the way it works. 1:14:33.640 --> 1:14:36.360 Is what you need college force? When should I needed? 1:14:36.560 --> 1:14:39.920 Like before Boone Pickens died and I didn't have I 1:14:39.960 --> 1:14:41.720 didn't I knew him. I didn't. We weren't like best 1:14:41.760 --> 1:14:44.800 friends or whatever. But if I really legitimately needed a job, 1:14:45.000 --> 1:14:46.640 I would have called Boone and said, hey, can you 1:14:46.720 --> 1:14:48.200 help me out? And he would have said, tell me 1:14:48.240 --> 1:14:50.080 who to call and I'll figure it out. Right. That's 1:14:50.360 --> 1:14:53.920 that is There is a value to that. And I 1:14:54.000 --> 1:14:55.519 talked about this all the time too. We can talk 1:14:55.560 --> 1:14:58.240 about you know, a million different things with the name 1:14:58.600 --> 1:15:01.240 image like the stuff, but network that I've tapped into 1:15:01.360 --> 1:15:05.000 and worked on a daily basis with KU has changed 1:15:05.040 --> 1:15:07.920 my life. So think about KU, which is an amazing institution. 1:15:07.960 --> 1:15:09.679 It's a great place to go to school and people 1:15:09.720 --> 1:15:11.320 to work with. I think if you went to like 1:15:11.479 --> 1:15:14.400 Stanford or I Presage School, like the value and those 1:15:14.520 --> 1:15:17.200 relationships with all those people in Silicon Valley about different things. 1:15:17.840 --> 1:15:21.479 That is dismissed so much and it's ridiculous and so 1:15:22.479 --> 1:15:24.519 really quick. So, like I, my full time job was 1:15:24.560 --> 1:15:26.719 finding a job. So I reached out to and Shoots 1:15:26.840 --> 1:15:28.479 as secretary, and he got to him and I said, 1:15:28.479 --> 1:15:31.719 here's my resume, and and I along with that resume 1:15:32.000 --> 1:15:35.360 was data Anderson who was the president and chairman of 1:15:35.400 --> 1:15:37.040 the board of the Main Switch Corporation, which is a 1:15:37.960 --> 1:15:41.760 massive uh strip mall company that he was chairman of 1:15:41.840 --> 1:15:43.880 board on who is a huge donor for KU, who 1:15:43.960 --> 1:15:46.799 helped me with the resume, helped me prepare for interviews, 1:15:46.800 --> 1:15:49.320 all those different things, you know, guiding me along, who 1:15:49.400 --> 1:15:52.679 was amazing in my you know, transition out of basketball 1:15:52.720 --> 1:15:55.080 into the professional world. You know, he said, here's you 1:15:55.120 --> 1:15:56.280 got a call to get to fill up, and so 1:15:56.320 --> 1:15:58.559 I got to fill up. So still literally said I'll 1:15:58.600 --> 1:16:01.320 float your resume. And that's all was is. This is 1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:05.200 coming down from the man and actually stud Heathcote, who 1:16:05.240 --> 1:16:08.120 you might know I was a reebok eye. You see 1:16:08.240 --> 1:16:10.360 that guy, he's now Global Partnership has picked it up 1:16:10.760 --> 1:16:12.880 and got me an interview, and he was gonna find 1:16:12.880 --> 1:16:14.200 out a way to get me in there, you know. 1:16:14.360 --> 1:16:17.320 And that's all because of the A and A E G. 1:16:17.600 --> 1:16:20.320 It really is. So that's what people need to think about. 1:16:20.400 --> 1:16:24.320 So and we can talk about how valuable colleges you know, 1:16:24.479 --> 1:16:27.720 down later. But but so I got so I was 1:16:27.760 --> 1:16:29.680 going to take a job there. And I grew up 1:16:29.720 --> 1:16:32.240 with the Boone family, Aaron and Matt. Matt's my best friend, 1:16:32.280 --> 1:16:35.880 my son's godfather, and so uh, Aaron's best friend is 1:16:36.680 --> 1:16:39.320 his partners A partner at a firm called Parker Visors 1:16:39.360 --> 1:16:42.040 in Beverly Hills, Ryan Straungswag, and so they were like, hey, 1:16:42.040 --> 1:16:43.519 before you take the job, you shoul gonna meet these 1:16:43.520 --> 1:16:45.439 guys in Beverly Hills. They do insurance for athletes. And 1:16:45.479 --> 1:16:47.800 I was like, oh, well, I had a policy when 1:16:47.800 --> 1:16:49.360 I played at Kansas. I know how this works as 1:16:49.400 --> 1:16:51.960 a consumer. Let's figure this out. So we had a 1:16:52.000 --> 1:16:53.400 two hour meeting and they kind of hired you on 1:16:53.439 --> 1:16:55.800 the spot into this gal. So that was in two 1:16:57.920 --> 1:16:59.880 or September twelve is when I joined this firm. And 1:17:00.040 --> 1:17:02.360 so what I what was great for me was I 1:17:02.479 --> 1:17:05.160 was digging job coach for jobs for three years and 1:17:05.360 --> 1:17:07.240 immediately turned my hat and said, listening to coach, I'm 1:17:07.240 --> 1:17:10.240 not gonna bug you about you know, um, you know, 1:17:10.400 --> 1:17:12.280 getting a job. Here's what I do. Now, here's I 1:17:12.360 --> 1:17:14.240 can help you. And every coach came back and said, 1:17:14.240 --> 1:17:17.519 oh my god, I don't understand this stuff. I know you, 1:17:17.680 --> 1:17:20.080 I trust you like you're our guy. And so I 1:17:20.200 --> 1:17:24.040 was immediately plugged into you know, Carolina, Kansas, Well, Kansas 1:17:24.080 --> 1:17:27.960 took some time obviously, um but which is a side story, 1:17:28.040 --> 1:17:31.679 but uh, it was immediately I was like, here's your opportunity, 1:17:31.720 --> 1:17:34.120 like you know whatever, coaches recruiting me twenty years from ago, 1:17:34.200 --> 1:17:36.080 we're now saying hey, I got this guy, what did 1:17:36.080 --> 1:17:37.519 you qualify for? What should we do here? And my 1:17:37.600 --> 1:17:40.360 business model was simple and that I called coaches and 1:17:40.439 --> 1:17:43.000 I called compliance officers because I remember when coach, when 1:17:43.040 --> 1:17:45.160 I was a KU I had coached, My dad said, 1:17:45.200 --> 1:17:47.880 er kia policy, I want to talk to coach. Coach, Yeah, 1:17:47.920 --> 1:17:50.080 go to talk to Richard Conson down the home. Compliance 1:17:50.120 --> 1:17:52.479 was taken from there, so I knew all I'm gonna 1:17:52.479 --> 1:17:55.080 do is call compliance directors and developed willerships with them 1:17:55.200 --> 1:17:58.240 and so um so as soon as so. Now fast 1:17:58.280 --> 1:18:00.160 forward eight years later on my own firm now out 1:18:00.720 --> 1:18:03.760 and basically what happens is I monitor all the draft 1:18:03.840 --> 1:18:07.000 boards for college football, baseball, basketball, hockey, and as soon 1:18:07.040 --> 1:18:09.360 as guys have rolling school, I'm reaching out to the 1:18:09.360 --> 1:18:11.840 school saying, hey, here's the student app that just enrolled, 1:18:11.880 --> 1:18:14.040 here's what the qualified sports, what we can do for him, 1:18:14.479 --> 1:18:16.920 and then we go from there. If they utilize my services, great, 1:18:16.960 --> 1:18:19.960 If not, you know, it's fine, too. But what really 1:18:20.040 --> 1:18:22.040 took off in my career, which was crazy, was when 1:18:22.080 --> 1:18:23.280 I was like I had to get a loan and 1:18:23.360 --> 1:18:25.479 pay off a loan once it turned pro to pay 1:18:25.560 --> 1:18:29.479 for the insurance. Well, my second year in doing the 1:18:29.800 --> 1:18:32.360 in the business, the n c A changed the rules 1:18:32.439 --> 1:18:34.840 with the Student Assistance Fund, allowing them to have the 1:18:34.880 --> 1:18:37.640 schools have full autonomy on the s a F. So 1:18:38.640 --> 1:18:42.560 saf's designed for emergency revisit bills, you know, diapers and 1:18:42.640 --> 1:18:45.760 a player has has a child, you know, flights home 1:18:45.800 --> 1:18:48.639 for funeral suits, if you travel, things like that. Well, 1:18:48.720 --> 1:18:50.840 once they came full autonomy, Texas A and M said, 1:18:50.880 --> 1:18:54.479 well we got a big offensive alignment and head policy. 1:18:54.520 --> 1:18:56.720 We're gonna spend fifty grand on his his policy and 1:18:56.840 --> 1:19:00.479 so it's a copycat everything. And so it kind of 1:19:00.520 --> 1:19:03.760 took off like wildfire, where two years I was helping 1:19:03.760 --> 1:19:06.080 these kids get loans to buy the insurance. Now was hey, 1:19:06.479 --> 1:19:08.160 we're gonna do this and we're gonna pay for it. 1:19:08.280 --> 1:19:11.200 And so it really took off from there. The schools 1:19:11.439 --> 1:19:14.800 schools can pay for these policies now correct correct yes, 1:19:14.880 --> 1:19:16.200 and they can pay for it out of what's called 1:19:16.240 --> 1:19:19.360 the Student Systems Fund based on U, cost of attendance, 1:19:19.400 --> 1:19:21.280 costs of living, a couple of factors. Each school gets 1:19:21.320 --> 1:19:23.640 to check from the n c a A for approximately 1:19:23.640 --> 1:19:25.720 two hifty three hundred thousand dollars that they can use 1:19:25.800 --> 1:19:28.160 for whatever they want. Some schools use the whole thing 1:19:28.200 --> 1:19:31.519 for insurance. Some schools used don't use it. But I'm 1:19:31.840 --> 1:19:33.600 you know, at a sixty schools I work with, I 1:19:33.640 --> 1:19:37.479 would say about use it is a portion of it 1:19:37.600 --> 1:19:40.240 for insurance and so and I'll talk about how great 1:19:40.280 --> 1:19:41.800 college is because of what it can do for you 1:19:41.880 --> 1:19:43.840 later in life. I want this. I have a client 1:19:43.960 --> 1:19:46.000 on a team in the big private school in the 1:19:46.040 --> 1:19:48.960 big Tent. So he's getting a scholarship. There's only one 1:19:49.000 --> 1:19:51.920 private school in the big ten. I hate to be well, 1:19:54.120 --> 1:19:56.519 actually no, it's not private now that I think about it. So, 1:19:57.160 --> 1:19:59.439 but it costs about forty five thousand dollars. You're gonna 1:19:59.439 --> 1:20:02.520 go there, Okay. So he's got a forty five scholarship 1:20:02.760 --> 1:20:04.960 between pale, grant, grant made all these different things. You 1:20:05.000 --> 1:20:07.519 get to check for five hundred dollars, which you can 1:20:07.640 --> 1:20:10.360 use it as a discretion for whatever he wants. And 1:20:10.560 --> 1:20:13.800 he's got a two million dollar policies of his career end. Um, 1:20:14.240 --> 1:20:16.120 he collects two million dollars to start in your life with. 1:20:16.640 --> 1:20:19.000 That's a pretty good life, if you ask me. I mean, 1:20:19.080 --> 1:20:22.120 I think that's a that's better than playing in the 1:20:22.240 --> 1:20:25.840 D League. That's better than you know, I don't know 1:20:25.880 --> 1:20:27.519 how good it is a life of it's being on 1:20:27.560 --> 1:20:30.320 a practice squad in the NFL or the miners in 1:20:30.479 --> 1:20:33.400 NHL or the miners in Major League Baseball. That's pretty 1:20:33.400 --> 1:20:36.040 amazing to have for three or four years while you're 1:20:36.080 --> 1:20:38.160 on campus, and then to go to the next level, 1:20:38.200 --> 1:20:40.160 which kind of goes back to another composition. I'm sure 1:20:40.200 --> 1:20:42.760 we'll get too. So so yeah, so that's what I do. 1:20:42.880 --> 1:20:44.640 I work with you know, college athletes all over the 1:20:44.680 --> 1:20:47.240 country once they turned pro. I work in conjunction with 1:20:47.320 --> 1:20:50.519 their financial advisor or agent. If I'm really busy with 1:20:50.600 --> 1:20:53.719 it right now, because guys are in NBA training camp 1:20:54.280 --> 1:20:56.960 and um, they may have you know, a hundred and 1:20:57.000 --> 1:20:59.280 fifty million on the table, but they want won seventy 1:20:59.360 --> 1:21:01.960 six or whatever they want over four or five years. 1:21:02.000 --> 1:21:05.120 So we'll bind them in a million dollar, fifty million 1:21:05.120 --> 1:21:08.320 dollar policy whatever they need uh to cover their firtual 1:21:08.360 --> 1:21:10.680 future earnings until they sign. Once they signed. Obviously the 1:21:11.000 --> 1:21:14.479 insurance has done its job, and then I follow up 1:21:14.520 --> 1:21:16.599 to sell them life insurance for a state planning purposes. 1:21:16.680 --> 1:21:19.880 So um, yeah, so that's all I do. I just 1:21:20.000 --> 1:21:22.360 do insurance. I don't do investments or tax prep or 1:21:22.360 --> 1:21:25.040 anything like that. I just do insurance, which allows me 1:21:25.160 --> 1:21:28.599 to work with college and professional athletes and so doing 1:21:28.640 --> 1:21:31.040 many years and it's um, I love it and I'll 1:21:31.160 --> 1:21:35.599 do it forever. So that's what I'm doing now. Okay, Uh, last, last, 1:21:36.000 --> 1:21:39.360 I get to two quick ones. One. Has anybody actually 1:21:39.400 --> 1:21:45.360 ever executed one of these policies you being collected on? One? Yeah, 1:21:45.479 --> 1:21:47.920 I've had several claims plaid. I had a I've had 1:21:47.920 --> 1:21:50.439 a college football loss of value claim paid. I've had 1:21:50.479 --> 1:21:54.720 an NBA basketball player loss of value claim paid, and 1:21:54.760 --> 1:21:59.320 I've had a college football PTV claim paid. I don't 1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:01.960 name names, don't I'm not that guy that brokers out 1:22:01.960 --> 1:22:04.200 there that'll tweet allow that stuff. I keep it confidential. 1:22:04.320 --> 1:22:07.719 But so there's three products you get. There's permanently disability, 1:22:07.720 --> 1:22:09.680 which is career and in coverage whether you know you 1:22:09.760 --> 1:22:12.000 can't play your sport over again, you collect on PtD 1:22:12.479 --> 1:22:15.120 due to an injury or illness right, there's loss of value. 1:22:15.200 --> 1:22:19.120 We assess your your your draft spot, and we assess, okay, 1:22:19.160 --> 1:22:21.960 you're projected tent in the draft. We're gonna set a 1:22:22.000 --> 1:22:23.439 threshold at the end of the first round. If you 1:22:23.479 --> 1:22:25.880 get hurt or have an injury an illness, you fall 1:22:25.880 --> 1:22:27.880 out of the first round, you'll start collecting each pick 1:22:27.920 --> 1:22:30.519 you fall. That's loss of value in the nutshell. And 1:22:30.600 --> 1:22:32.760 then there's a new product called critical injury, which is 1:22:32.800 --> 1:22:35.760 two categories of injury. So if you category one being 1:22:35.800 --> 1:22:37.640 a major injury such as a torn a c l 1:22:37.680 --> 1:22:40.880 achilles uh, you know, rotator cup, Tommy John. If you're 1:22:40.880 --> 1:22:44.360 a picture um loss of cider cancer, you collect two 1:22:44.479 --> 1:22:47.160 or fifty thousand dollars. In the category too, would be 1:22:47.240 --> 1:22:50.120 a major muscle group tear so torn growing by sept 1:22:50.120 --> 1:22:53.120 tries to hamstring quads, your quadratp. You get a hunt 1:22:53.120 --> 1:22:55.720 of that not benefits. So those are uh. You start 1:22:55.760 --> 1:22:58.040 with the PtD and you add loss of value or 1:22:58.120 --> 1:23:00.600 critical injury. As a writer, law of eyes kind of 1:23:00.640 --> 1:23:02.519 going away. There's been a ton of claims paid on it, 1:23:02.560 --> 1:23:04.280 so they're only doing it for the top top guys, 1:23:04.840 --> 1:23:07.080 but most guys that they're a solid player are going 1:23:07.120 --> 1:23:09.880 to qualify for the critical injury. Um the writer that 1:23:09.920 --> 1:23:12.280 they can add to the p TWD policy. Um okay. 1:23:12.400 --> 1:23:14.240 And then and here's the last thing I'll get. I'll 1:23:14.320 --> 1:23:16.720 kind of give you the floor. But I mean, like, look, 1:23:16.760 --> 1:23:19.800 people know that I I value the college system for 1:23:20.120 --> 1:23:22.559 among the things that we've said. But but the name 1:23:22.600 --> 1:23:25.639 and likeness fight, which to me, it's gonna be pay 1:23:25.760 --> 1:23:28.680 for play, right, Like, guys don't really have and and 1:23:28.920 --> 1:23:31.160 and in fairness, I I when I tweet out that 1:23:31.240 --> 1:23:34.120 guys don't have a value, they don't have a huge value. 1:23:34.200 --> 1:23:36.160 But what you do is you pull together all your values. 1:23:36.439 --> 1:23:39.400 And that's how the coaches and the athletice departments had 1:23:39.439 --> 1:23:43.080 these local sponsorship deals, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. I feel like 1:23:43.640 --> 1:23:46.960 people were we're operating on old news in terms of 1:23:47.040 --> 1:23:49.240 like you pointed out kid having twenty seven thousand dollars 1:23:49.280 --> 1:23:53.000 to spended his discretion tax free, you know, for a 1:23:53.120 --> 1:23:57.080 year to play in college. Like I don't like we've 1:23:57.120 --> 1:23:59.760 gotten this point to which like, look, we're good enough, 1:24:00.040 --> 1:24:03.040 is in fact enough And part of being in colleges 1:24:03.040 --> 1:24:05.320 you've got to manage whatever finances you have. You have 1:24:05.400 --> 1:24:08.600 to learn and you're never gonna starve because now you 1:24:08.680 --> 1:24:11.080 have unlimited meals and things like that. What's your take 1:24:11.160 --> 1:24:15.000 on the name and likeness, Well, it's I mean, obviously 1:24:15.080 --> 1:24:16.960 governors are signing it left and right, so it's gonna 1:24:17.000 --> 1:24:19.479 have to be something that's gonna be addressed before three. 1:24:19.600 --> 1:24:23.280 But um, you know, personally, like I think the perfect 1:24:23.320 --> 1:24:25.960 example is, like, you know, Zion Wing was a good example. 1:24:26.040 --> 1:24:30.120 So hoo this it was like last June or something 1:24:30.200 --> 1:24:33.479 like last may or June. I had a couple uh 1:24:35.160 --> 1:24:39.240 apparel companies reach out for quotes um for Zion because 1:24:39.960 --> 1:24:43.200 Zion had an offer from an apparel company for about 1:24:43.240 --> 1:24:45.360 forty million dollars on the table, right, So they're gonna 1:24:45.400 --> 1:24:49.000 say take this money and uh just work were out 1:24:49.040 --> 1:24:50.960 with the Cones and you go to the draft and 1:24:51.040 --> 1:24:53.639 then you know, we'll see what what what happens from there. 1:24:53.640 --> 1:24:55.960 So he's gonna get forty million dollars signed an apparel company. 1:24:56.240 --> 1:24:57.920 And so he wanted to buy Hi an assurance policy. 1:24:57.960 --> 1:25:00.680 And so I remember talking to on Gavanni, who I 1:25:00.760 --> 1:25:03.000 talked to a lot about you know, players and different things, 1:25:03.040 --> 1:25:05.080 and he and that we were like, well, if he 1:25:05.080 --> 1:25:07.840 doesn't play this year, he's not gonna prove himself. John 1:25:07.960 --> 1:25:09.479 was kind of like, you know, I don't want to 1:25:09.560 --> 1:25:11.000 quote John or speak for him, but he was like, well, 1:25:11.400 --> 1:25:12.960 if he does that, he's gonna want you know, he'll 1:25:12.960 --> 1:25:15.479 probably fall to like the twelve to twenty range because 1:25:15.520 --> 1:25:16.680 we don't know who he is. I mean, he can 1:25:17.080 --> 1:25:19.439 he can dunk on these small kids in South Carolina, 1:25:19.520 --> 1:25:22.240 but like, can he play? You know? And so, so 1:25:22.320 --> 1:25:24.599 you got forty million dollars from the Parel company, you're 1:25:24.600 --> 1:25:27.360 probably a twelve to twenty pick. Well, he made the 1:25:27.439 --> 1:25:29.880 right decision and went to college to play for Duke, 1:25:30.000 --> 1:25:33.479 which is probably one of the best three platforms in 1:25:33.600 --> 1:25:35.920 college to be on. So I had a great year, 1:25:36.000 --> 1:25:37.920 Player of the Year, Goes has a good run in 1:25:37.960 --> 1:25:40.160 the in the in the tournament, and then what's he do. 1:25:40.560 --> 1:25:43.559 He signs a near hundred million dollar deal with Jordan Brand. 1:25:43.760 --> 1:25:45.600 He's the number one pick in the draft signing for 1:25:45.800 --> 1:25:49.680 it's gonna be forty million over four years. And to 1:25:49.720 --> 1:25:52.160 look at it, he tripled his market value by going 1:25:52.280 --> 1:25:55.439 to college and having one year there and he and 1:25:56.640 --> 1:25:59.600 he's the he's the one percent where the rest of 1:25:59.680 --> 1:26:02.439 the kid have don't don't even have those offers. You 1:26:02.479 --> 1:26:04.800 know what I means like correct and which so I 1:26:04.920 --> 1:26:07.400 feel like you you you run the risk of destroying 1:26:07.439 --> 1:26:09.800 the entire system for a guy like Zion, and a 1:26:09.880 --> 1:26:13.040 guy like Zion ends up benefiting from every moment that 1:26:13.120 --> 1:26:16.200 he plays in college. Perfect. And I'm gonna add to 1:26:16.280 --> 1:26:17.640 this one more thing too. And you know this as 1:26:17.640 --> 1:26:21.080 a former student athlete. There's a sports we called non 1:26:21.160 --> 1:26:24.080 revenues track and field. You know, all these different sports 1:26:24.120 --> 1:26:27.000 that you know, wrestling would have you steams when they wrestling, 1:26:27.080 --> 1:26:30.680 but but they don't, you know, generate any income. All 1:26:30.720 --> 1:26:33.559 those sports are going to go away if they completely 1:26:33.640 --> 1:26:35.920 change the model and it's a full pay for play system. 1:26:36.360 --> 1:26:39.040 And that really bothers me because I had so many 1:26:39.160 --> 1:26:41.559 friends in college and I know about stories of people 1:26:42.200 --> 1:26:46.360 in horrible economic backgrounds and systems where they have their 1:26:46.439 --> 1:26:48.720 only chance to get out of what situation they're in 1:26:48.880 --> 1:26:51.479 is to get a scholarship playing a sport, to go 1:26:51.600 --> 1:26:53.640 to a school to get a degree, to better their 1:26:53.720 --> 1:26:56.759 life and move on into the workforce. And that vehicle 1:26:56.920 --> 1:26:59.800 is playing a non revenue sport at whatever school that 1:27:00.000 --> 1:27:02.240 is gonna go away. And that's what really makes me sad. 1:27:02.360 --> 1:27:06.040 Because just there's so many there's so many kids out 1:27:06.080 --> 1:27:08.639 there that I don't care what sport it it's golf 1:27:08.880 --> 1:27:11.880 or tracking or whatever, that those opportunities are gonna be 1:27:11.960 --> 1:27:14.160 gone because all the money's gonna be going too. The 1:27:14.200 --> 1:27:17.760 players that people say, by rights earn it because people 1:27:17.800 --> 1:27:20.360 are turning on the TV to see them, but the 1:27:20.560 --> 1:27:22.320 turn of TV see them because they're playing at Duke 1:27:22.439 --> 1:27:24.840 or Kansas, U c l A or Arizona or whatever. 1:27:25.760 --> 1:27:28.160 Nobody watches daily games like I played the dealing. It's 1:27:28.160 --> 1:27:31.479 a waist line of broken dreams the better players, but 1:27:31.600 --> 1:27:35.360 it's worst basketball. And it's like, you know, I think 1:27:35.400 --> 1:27:37.960 there needs to be some kind of common ground where 1:27:38.040 --> 1:27:40.599 they are compensated something. We've got to figure that out. 1:27:41.120 --> 1:27:44.240 But it can't just be you can market yourself, because 1:27:44.280 --> 1:27:46.800 then all the big schools are gonna have you know, 1:27:46.840 --> 1:27:49.880 I'm gonna get a million dollars from Longo to to 1:27:49.880 --> 1:27:51.800 play basketball at U c l A. And it's just 1:27:51.960 --> 1:27:55.200 that's just what's gonna happen, and so you can't regulate it. 1:27:55.360 --> 1:27:58.439 So they've got to just find out something that all 1:27:59.280 --> 1:28:04.400 parties can coexist. And with this beautiful thing of college basketball. 1:28:04.439 --> 1:28:09.000 College athletics isn't just wiped away or changed or or 1:28:09.640 --> 1:28:15.040 you know, unrecognizable after That's just my humble opinion. Hey man, 1:28:15.280 --> 1:28:18.000 I'm really happy that all the stuff that you went 1:28:18.040 --> 1:28:20.360 through as a player as a human being, now your 1:28:20.479 --> 1:28:24.200 dad a husband and you're making in life and glad 1:28:24.240 --> 1:28:26.720 to call your friend. I appreciate you join us. We 1:28:26.840 --> 1:28:28.280 gotta do this again. We gotta we gotta do the 1:28:28.400 --> 1:28:30.400 room at some point, we have to do the room discussion. 1:28:30.600 --> 1:28:33.840 We'll do some work, some hips discussion as well, but 1:28:34.840 --> 1:28:37.639 in the with time as the as the essence. Thanks 1:28:37.640 --> 1:28:40.479 for joining us, of course, appreciate it, Dog, Thank you. 1:28:41.400 --> 1:28:43.639 Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug 1:28:43.720 --> 1:28:47.720 god Leap Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific. Well, 1:28:47.760 --> 1:28:50.000 I hope you enjoyed that great conversation. We've been long 1:28:50.080 --> 1:28:53.439 time kind of friends, uh no friends, long time friends, 1:28:53.560 --> 1:28:55.519 and we live close to each other. We'll do it again. 1:28:56.080 --> 1:28:58.080 Able to talk some ball after a big Kansas game 1:28:58.160 --> 1:29:00.560 or something like that. Um. You can listen to The 1:29:00.640 --> 1:29:04.280 Doug Gottlieb Show every day three to sixty Eastern twelve 1:29:04.360 --> 1:29:06.640 to three Pacific on Fox Sport trade of the I 1:29:06.760 --> 1:29:10.040 Heart Radio app um or you can download that podcast 1:29:10.080 --> 1:29:12.439 if you'd like. In the meantime, thanks so much for listening. 1:29:12.439 --> 1:29:15.320 Don't forget to download, subscribe rate tell a friend tweeted 1:29:15.360 --> 1:29:18.120 out whatever. Next week, I think what we'll do is 1:29:18.160 --> 1:29:21.360 we'll probably have a special guest in preview the NBA 1:29:21.400 --> 1:29:23.360 because the season gets on away on Thursday, but we'll 1:29:23.400 --> 1:29:25.960 preview kind of the whole league. Um some trends, some 1:29:26.040 --> 1:29:28.880 things to look at, and so on. So far. In 1:29:28.920 --> 1:29:32.000 the meantime, thanks for listening. I'm Doug Gollip. This is 1:29:32.080 --> 1:29:32.439 all ball