Speaker 1: That is really hard because you are not aware of
Speaker 1: all the things that they had to do to get there.
Speaker 1: You're just on your first six months of your record
Speaker 1: deal contract and you're trying to figure out, like why
Speaker 1: you're not selling out a stadium yet.
Speaker 2: Welcome to episode five oh eight Troy Cartwright. Troy has
Speaker 2: a podcast called ten Year Town. That's how I was
Speaker 2: introduced to him. It's a really good podcast. It's I
Speaker 2: would say, a better version of this show.
Speaker 3: You would say that, yeah, probably.
Speaker 2: Yeah. He's like a legit songwriter. He's a legit artist,
Speaker 2: and we talk a lot about that. But I was
Speaker 2: drawn to his podcast because I was following it on
Speaker 2: TikTok and the clips would come up and now I
Speaker 2: was like, dang. And I went into his podcast and
Speaker 2: I don't think it's as big yet, but I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is a better version of what I do in that.
Speaker 3: While though you see something on TikTok and you think
Speaker 3: it's massive, Like I've been seeing his clip for a
Speaker 3: long time now, and it's weird seeing he's per inspected
Speaker 3: from his side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I really like it. I like him a lot,
Speaker 2: and so we'll talk to him coming up in just
Speaker 2: a second. As we hop in to episode five O eight,
Speaker 2: I was watching Speaking of TikTok, was watching clips from
Speaker 2: your podcast, Mike Movie Mike's Movie Podcast, and I am
Speaker 2: fascinated and have been fascinated with the Oklahoma City bombing.
Speaker 3: I'm like so into That's kind of how I learned
Speaker 3: about it. I just watched the Netflix documentary that just
Speaker 3: came out.
Speaker 2: Oh there is one, yeah, I saw so that's why
Speaker 2: I saw you talking to I didn't know that was
Speaker 2: on Netflix.
Speaker 1: Yeah, director of the documentary, the director of it.
Speaker 3: Because I was too young when it happened. I don't
Speaker 3: really remember it, and watching that documentary is me learning
Speaker 3: all the details for the first time.
Speaker 1: Age Flex, I hear you, age Flex.
Speaker 2: That story is crazy because there's like eight avenues of crazy,
Speaker 2: meaning you could go there out of who really was he?
Speaker 1: Who are they working for? There's all that. There's also
Speaker 1: just how it was caught that's wild.
Speaker 3: It was also crazy that when they didn't know it
Speaker 3: was him, they started accusing other people. They were like, oh,
Speaker 3: we saw Middle Eastern people coming out of that a building.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't it show I mean, and that stuff
Speaker 1: still happening to It just shows like.
Speaker 3: Even back in the nineties, like that was just there.
Speaker 2: And in the nineties there was nobody to speak out
Speaker 2: against it because there wasn't social media or other forms
Speaker 2: of tell or other or eighty networks to go, hey,
Speaker 2: we don't think that's right. There were like three channels,
Speaker 2: four channels. But so the bomb goes off, it's not
Speaker 2: a spoiler because it's a relevant in the history. The
Speaker 2: bomb goes off and the guy who set the bombs
Speaker 2: drives away and his license plate the explosion actually shook
Speaker 2: the car somebody, his license plate fell to the ground
Speaker 2: and that they found the license plate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he was driving like seventy miles from there,
Speaker 3: got pulled over for another for.
Speaker 2: Reason, Yeah, because he had no license plate, not because
Speaker 2: they were like that's the guy they And then he
Speaker 2: had a gun on him and no license plate. So
Speaker 2: they put him in jail, but not because of the bombing.
Speaker 2: And then he's in jail the whole time, and they're
Speaker 2: looking for, like you said, a Middle Eastern guy. They're
Speaker 2: looking for all these fake and he's sitting right there
Speaker 2: in prison. It's a all. It's tragic, it's sad, and
Speaker 2: he almost got ahead of.
Speaker 3: Jail, like he was in court. They were like a
Speaker 3: better let this guy go, Like wait a minute, yep.
Speaker 2: So go check out Movie Mike's Movie podcast. I would
Speaker 2: say if you love movies, it's a great podcast obviously,
Speaker 2: but even if you want to learn more about that,
Speaker 2: because you're talking with the director of that project.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the retired FBI agents who was there
Speaker 3: rescuing people.
Speaker 2: I went to the building across the street because I
Speaker 2: went and toward the whole thing, and so went up
Speaker 2: and there's audio of from the building across the street
Speaker 2: as they're having a city a town hall meeting because
Speaker 2: they record all the town hall meetings, and you hear
Speaker 2: it in the town hall meeting how loud the explosion
Speaker 2: was to the people across the street.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I didn't realize how massive the destruction was too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, and again there are a lot of conspiracy lanes
Speaker 2: to travel down if you choose.
Speaker 1: But that's everything.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you're right, check out that on Movie Mike's
Speaker 2: Movie Podcast. And not so much just a plug about
Speaker 2: Mike's podcast, which is great, but I'm super interested in that.
Speaker 2: I'm super interested in songwriters and especially the viewpoints of songwriters,
Speaker 2: which is what Troy does. He brings on others and
Speaker 2: they have talks, and so this is my talk with him.
Speaker 2: This is Troy Cartwright and again the ten year Town podcast.
Speaker 2: I love it. Here's the episode. Enjoy Troy.
Speaker 1: Good to see you, Good to see you. How you
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's kind of like that, I don't know. Good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, My days I think are layered a bit different
Speaker 2: than yours. Yeah, just from the waking up part, right,
Speaker 2: So I think we're When people ask me that question,
Speaker 2: it's often like how you doing, I'm like, you know,
Speaker 2: I think it's I'm at a different stage of my day,
Speaker 2: so it's relative to what stage of the day you
Speaker 2: know you're in.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say before, I really like you, by
Speaker 2: the way, and we spent time on your podcast, and
Speaker 2: I definitely want to talk about that. Yeah, I didn't
Speaker 2: know you, but i'd seen ten Yuretown on TikTok, saw
Speaker 2: the clips. Yeah, and really had a great time on
Speaker 2: your podcast, and I hope it was well received and
Speaker 2: very You have to say that, so I don't want
Speaker 2: you to say it. You have to say it. It's
Speaker 2: an obligation to say that. But yeah, you do a
Speaker 2: great job. And I left going man, that was fun
Speaker 2: for me because I didn't feel like I had to
Speaker 2: do what I feel like I often have to do,
Speaker 2: which is take controls. So it's not a dude, and
Speaker 2: I'm not right when I do that, but I didn't
Speaker 2: have to do that with you.
Speaker 1: You owned it.
Speaker 2: And I hope people hear this and go, wow, maybe
Speaker 2: if this interview is not terrible, I'll go check out
Speaker 2: Troy's podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, how are you enjoying that? I'm loving it still.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. It's one of those things right where if
Speaker 1: I would have known how hard it was when I started,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I would have done it. That's this
Speaker 1: whole career too.
Speaker 2: I mean that's a microcosm for everything, this whole freaking city.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's been a lot of work, but it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's been really rewarding and I you know,
Speaker 1: I enjoy getting to like to tell the stories, you know,
Speaker 1: and I like talking to people. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think you like what people should like about podcasting
Speaker 2: because I feel like you pay attention, you care, you
Speaker 2: are interested and curious, like you have all the things
Speaker 2: that I think I wish I cared about. Where I'm
Speaker 2: just like, ah, god, it's a lot to say, and
Speaker 2: there's another human in the room, and let's just see
Speaker 2: what happens. Like That's what I liked about, because you're
Speaker 2: very warm. I'll come back to the podcast. I wanted
Speaker 2: to lead with that, though, because I do feel that way,
Speaker 2: and I know we've texted on once. Yeah, once or twice,
Speaker 2: But I wanted to say that at the beginning, so
Speaker 2: I didn't forget.
Speaker 1: But thank you.
Speaker 2: What I didn't know a lot about as far as
Speaker 2: your career was your music.
Speaker 1: You're writing.
Speaker 2: I knew you from doing the podcast, but I knew
Speaker 2: you did the podcast because you were also a writer,
Speaker 2: but I didn't really know what that story was. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm seeing now on TikTok because I'm a psycho super
Speaker 2: fan of yours.
Speaker 1: Are you writing again?
Speaker 2: Are you now writing and making content with what you're writing?
Speaker 1: Because I'm seeing content? Yeah, So where are you in
Speaker 1: that stage? Uh? So I am writing every day? Have
Speaker 1: you always been writing every day? I've been writing every
Speaker 1: day more or less since I moved to Nashville eight
Speaker 1: years ago, almost nine years ago. Now I'm coming up
Speaker 1: on the title of my podcast. You know, so some
Speaker 1: Some's got a break soon.
Speaker 2: You're about to be a millionaire then, because if you
Speaker 2: make it ten years, you're automatically a Millionaire's how it works.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So I'm writing all the time, and I
Speaker 1: have been working towards a new record for my my
Speaker 1: artist project, and you know, in addition to that, I
Speaker 1: am writing songs for other people.
Speaker 2: So is that why I'm seeing you do you in
Speaker 2: music content? Because you're working on you? Yeah, that would
Speaker 2: make sense. Yeah, it's because.
Speaker 1: If you're.
Speaker 2: Writing and you have a publishing deal, you're writing independent
Speaker 2: whatever you're doing, and you're writing for other people or
Speaker 2: you're writing to be pitched, you're probably not putting a
Speaker 2: lot of that content.
Speaker 1: On social media. It makes sense if you're doing your
Speaker 1: own project. Yes, and it is, you know it. It's
Speaker 1: a it's a it's quite a long story and I'm
Speaker 1: happy to go into it if you podcast wants stretch it,
Speaker 1: string it. But it's kind of like what we talked
Speaker 1: about on when you came on my podcast about like
Speaker 1: there's this opportunity with making content, you know, which is
Speaker 1: like the buzzword of the day, where you can really
Speaker 1: get heard, you know, you can get discovered, you can
Speaker 1: reach people, and when you're writing and making songs you're
Speaker 1: trying to you hope that it can mean something to somebody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the environment is very different and also the same
Speaker 2: in the way of what's great about now is the
Speaker 2: finger quote gatekeepers have far less control. Yeah, but the
Speaker 2: finger quote gatekeepers are now an algorithm.
Speaker 1: That right, you don't even know who they are.
Speaker 2: Well, at least you kind of knew the devil you
Speaker 2: were dancing with before. H But the freedom now is
Speaker 2: is that you have it, and it just takes the
Speaker 2: right thing at the right time and the right algorithm
Speaker 2: looking for the.
Speaker 1: Right yeah, for it to hit right. There's something I
Speaker 1: heard one time about like increasing your your luck surface
Speaker 1: area so you you still got it. Like if you
Speaker 1: go if you want to go viral, you know, it
Speaker 1: takes a lot of luck, but can be more tries
Speaker 1: lead to more luck. And that's hard work. And and
Speaker 1: I've had, you know, some stuff go really viral.
Speaker 2: What's really viral to a few reels last few years
Speaker 2: define a number.
Speaker 1: I think when I posted That's why, which was trying
Speaker 1: to think if it was twenty three or twenty two.
Speaker 1: I think it was twenty two. I posted it right
Speaker 1: before Valentine's Day, and I went to bed. It wouldn't post.
Speaker 2: It was weird it like I love. I went to
Speaker 2: bed story and wake up and it was big. It's
Speaker 2: like a Bailey's Donement type days. It was happening for
Speaker 2: so many people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but literally, yeah, I posted this thing and I
Speaker 1: was uncomfortable. I was singing to my camera, you know,
Speaker 1: not really my it's really my vibe. Yeah, it feels
Speaker 1: a little goofy. Yeah. I went to bed. I think
Speaker 1: that one was many hundreds of thousands, if not close
Speaker 1: to a million. The next day. The next day, and
Speaker 1: I had just gotten dropped from my record deal, so
Speaker 1: it was like, okay, here we go. You know, I
Speaker 1: was right, Are you a god guy? Yeah? Yeah, in
Speaker 1: my own way.
Speaker 2: Yes, And and I and I think it's a great
Speaker 2: answer in your own way, yes, because I am in
Speaker 2: my own way as well.
Speaker 1: I think we all are and we have our own.
Speaker 2: Different But did that was that ever part of it
Speaker 2: where it's like something It didn't have to be a
Speaker 2: god thing, something bigger just showed me that whatever I
Speaker 2: lost in that, hey you've now been dropped, that maybe it's.
Speaker 1: Not all lost. What did that happen at all?
Speaker 2: With you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know, there's this. There's this quote I really
Speaker 1: like that says opportunity is a strange beast that frequently
Speaker 1: appears after a loss. And I and that has been
Speaker 1: true for me a lot of times. And it was
Speaker 1: it was an interesting time because I was dealing with
Speaker 1: sort of a little bit of an identity crisis because
Speaker 1: ever since I when I first moved to town, I
Speaker 1: had some momentum coming when I came here from Texas,
Speaker 1: momentum based on what based on some music I had
Speaker 1: put out. And this was very very like, you know,
Speaker 1: comparatively small, but it was there was something bubbling up
Speaker 1: and I was doing something that I think, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody somebody liked, and that your artist.
Speaker 2: You're you're sick because you have different versions of your career. Yes,
Speaker 2: I have performance, got it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yes, I have kind of a songwriting an artist
Speaker 1: and and now a podcast. You gotta do you want to.
Speaker 2: Final like I'm five at times? Okay, So you move
Speaker 2: here with some momentum, yes, based on your performance correct
Speaker 2: performing I had started.
Speaker 1: Up until that point, I was just living in Dallas, writing,
Speaker 1: you know, in in my bedroom basically, and I had
Speaker 1: made a record and I had put part of that
Speaker 1: record out and somebody that worked as like an independent
Speaker 1: radio promoter invited me. They said, you should come to
Speaker 1: Nashville and you should meet some people. So that's how
Speaker 1: I met a publisher named Jake Gear and then he
Speaker 1: set me up on some co writs. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: Like a year later, I moved to Nashville and I
Speaker 1: got on the radar of somebody at the label and
Speaker 1: they signed me. It happened pretty quick, you know, I
Speaker 1: got I got a record deal, and that was that
Speaker 1: was a dream at the time. It was a dream
Speaker 1: come true.
Speaker 2: It happened so quick that you didn't really got the
Speaker 2: eyes and cross the t's and or even understand that
Speaker 2: that was a thing.
Speaker 1: You know, I've been thinking about this a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's it was a perfectly fine deal. Yeah I was.
Speaker 2: I'm not insinuating it was lu Pearlman shady right right right, Uh,
Speaker 2: it was.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things looking back on that I
Speaker 1: wasn't thinking about. Part of that was just like what
Speaker 1: do I want to sound like? What do I want
Speaker 1: to say? How old are you? I was twenty six.
Speaker 2: You're just starting at that age to figure out what
Speaker 2: You're just starting to figure out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you don't even know what you ask
Speaker 1: to that crisis. I understand the cirl. Okay, so what
Speaker 1: happens is you come to town. Here I go from writing.
Speaker 1: I was very rigid with my schedule when I when
Speaker 1: I was writing by myself, I woke up every day,
Speaker 1: I started writing at eleven, and I wrote until two
Speaker 1: or three in the afternoon every day. So when I
Speaker 1: moved to Nashville, Okay, now I'm getting set up on
Speaker 1: these co writes, and I'm writing with people, and now
Speaker 1: there's these things called track guys. So now you're getting
Speaker 1: like these almost basically you're ending the day with a
Speaker 1: song that kind of sounds like a record, but you're
Speaker 1: you're going through you know, maybe one hundred different combinations
Speaker 1: of writers. So so over time, when you don't know
Speaker 1: exactly what you want to say and what you want
Speaker 1: to sound like, you can strangely lose your voice in
Speaker 1: the in that process. Mind me up.
Speaker 2: And it's not exactly the same that quote if you
Speaker 2: don't stand for something, you'll stand for anything, Yeah, And
Speaker 2: it's that you aren't for sure, yeah, And you're around
Speaker 2: a lot of other people who kind of bar for sure,
Speaker 2: and so you're kind of pulled in directions of what
Speaker 2: you think might be the thing that works.
Speaker 1: No doubt, And and what happens is then you get
Speaker 1: a record deal. Well they're geniuses, they know, so I
Speaker 1: want to do what they say. You know, I want
Speaker 1: to be you know, I like, I want to be
Speaker 1: a good artist and well liked and I'm a people pleaser.
Speaker 1: So all of these things. It's nothing, nothing nefarious is happening.
Speaker 1: It's just it start, it starts to slant towards the middle,
Speaker 1: you know, and then I'm making music that sounds like
Speaker 1: the radio, which is cool, but lost your edge though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the things that got you here you no longer
Speaker 2: have one because you're now here and you're trying to
Speaker 2: sound like here, which is very easy to do because yeah,
Speaker 2: same anybody that moves to town and you're around quote
Speaker 2: these geniuses, Yeah they're just us.
Speaker 1: And when they moved here, they saw the geniuses. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's almost a cycle that everybody goes through, and you
Speaker 2: have to do it wrong in order to fully understand
Speaker 2: that no one's ever right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody knows anything. You just you do. Eventually have
Speaker 1: to get back to a place where you go like,
Speaker 1: what do I what do, I want to say, you know,
Speaker 1: and and part of that is just learning the lessons
Speaker 1: of taking the hits, you know. I mean, that's that's
Speaker 1: a big part of it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: To me, it was if I'm going to fail, because
Speaker 2: I've already failed a bunch of times here doing different things,
Speaker 2: at least I want to fail doing it my way,
Speaker 2: because at least that feels like I honestly failed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's something there's a real truth to.
Speaker 2: Success or failure when it's your truth, because you know
Speaker 2: it's genuine either way. Where if I you know, there
Speaker 2: were times my first couple of years here, I was hated.
Speaker 2: I was hated because I was way different. So at
Speaker 2: times I would manipulate or modify and it wouldn't go well.
Speaker 2: And it got to the point where it was, if
Speaker 2: it's not gonna go well, I'd rather it not go
Speaker 2: well with me being exactly me, because then I know
Speaker 2: it's me, it's not whatever I'm chasing.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you were you were modifying yourself
Speaker 1: to like fit into like some mold that you thought
Speaker 1: it was supposed to fit into.
Speaker 2: My situations, as similar as it was to yours, was
Speaker 2: different in that.
Speaker 1: Mine was genuine I hate you.
Speaker 2: The word hatred, it would I would say uneducated hatred
Speaker 2: from the industry because I was so different in the
Speaker 2: industry is a big evil man that doesn't have a face.
Speaker 2: It's like when people can complain about the rady and
Speaker 2: I'm not mister fight for radio either, but it's like
Speaker 2: radio just won't. That's not a thing, right, It's so
Speaker 2: when I say that. So it was an uneducated hatred
Speaker 2: toward me because I was different and I challenged norms
Speaker 2: and norms that felt comfortable then felt threatened, and after
Speaker 2: a long time of it being difficult for me, I thought,
Speaker 2: what can I do to make this not so difficult
Speaker 2: for me? So it wasn't that I was going, I'm
Speaker 2: going to do this to get better because I have
Speaker 2: confidence in that area, but it was this sucks, like
Speaker 2: I'm having articles written that aren't true about me, and
Speaker 2: like local music industry magazines, I'm having four or five
Speaker 2: different type of of of deal and I'm like, you
Speaker 2: know what, I'm just I'm going to lose some of
Speaker 2: my edge, so some of that edge is not given
Speaker 2: back to me. So the parallels are from your story
Speaker 2: of mine are similar, but the same thing it still.
Speaker 1: Didn't go well. Once I changed and got a little softer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, I'm just gonna be me and
Speaker 2: then if I fail, at least the truth is I
Speaker 2: failed because I failed with with who I was totally.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You you almost think it's gonna be easier because
Speaker 1: you give in to what you think you're supposed to do,
Speaker 1: but the you know, the end result is uh. I
Speaker 1: was just I was becoming very dissatisfied. I was waking
Speaker 1: up and looking in the mirror and being like, I'm
Speaker 1: not this feels out of sync.
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor,
Speaker 4: and we're back on the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 1: I bek you're losing yourself. Yeah, because what happens is
Speaker 1: you are surrounded by the system that is holding you
Speaker 1: are constantly standing in comparison to the most successful artists
Speaker 1: on the planet, and that is really hard because you
Speaker 1: are not aware of all the things that they had
Speaker 1: to do to get there. You're just on your first
Speaker 1: six months of your record deal contract and you're trying
Speaker 1: to figure out, like why you're not selling out a
Speaker 1: stadium yet. You know you've got to kind of like, okay,
Speaker 1: well I'm going to reverse engineer this and try and
Speaker 1: sound like this. And it's not even always intentional, it's
Speaker 1: just sort of the way that the like I said,
Speaker 1: the table is slanted towards the middle, so you just
Speaker 1: kind of end up making stuff that is palatable to
Speaker 1: this this middle. But in the in the process, you know,
Speaker 1: I lost me in there, and that is you know,
Speaker 1: it sucked and it was hard, and then it all
Speaker 1: went away and that was hard.
Speaker 2: So and that was my next question. Did it take
Speaker 2: it all going away for you to realize nothing to lose,
Speaker 2: got to get back, got to get back on my track?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So, I mean it was so out of the
Speaker 1: blue to me when they when they dropped you, Oh,
Speaker 1: you had no idea it was coming, no idea I had.
Speaker 1: I had a record coming out. It wasn't even out
Speaker 1: yet when that happened, which which you know, what's the call?
Speaker 1: What's that call? Then?
Speaker 2: Uh, it's it's it's an ep No, no, no, what's
Speaker 2: the call? When they call you or they in your
Speaker 2: oh what's the call? What do they say to you?
Speaker 2: Because that sounds like, yeah, well that's when something is underperforming.
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is that no one ever called me, oh,
Speaker 1: you're still signed. You have no idea, but you're still signed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my my manager, you were never dropped. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: in Yeah. My manager asked me to go to lunch.
Speaker 1: I was not writing that day.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: It was like a Monday or a Tuesday. We went
Speaker 1: over to uh Ed Lee's in twelve South and we
Speaker 1: were sitting outside on the patio and and he was like, look,
Speaker 1: I had to tell you something and it's not good.
Speaker 1: Oh God, And yeah, I mean, you know, I still
Speaker 1: remember it.
Speaker 2: What was his explanation? What was the justification? Because they
Speaker 2: obviously saw something in you? Yeah, and then they didn't.
Speaker 2: So something happened in the middle where Yeah, was there
Speaker 2: a change in any sort of executive.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. And and I've I've since
Speaker 1: seen some of those those people, and and I've I've
Speaker 1: asked the question many times, uh, you know from my manager,
Speaker 1: and I don't know that there ever was like a
Speaker 1: great answer, a great answer or a satisfying answer. Uh.
Speaker 1: And the answer may just be like it came from
Speaker 1: on high that they're spending this many dollars and they
Speaker 1: need to spend this many dollars, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: but but yeah, it just it just it went away,
Speaker 1: you know, And did you lose confidence?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: I had to. I had a really uh high wire
Speaker 1: to walk because my record was still the songs that
Speaker 1: I had done were still planning on coming out, even
Speaker 1: though they had told me that they weren't going to
Speaker 1: that they weren't going to move forward after that, so they.
Speaker 2: Were going to put it out, but they were going
Speaker 2: to put any money into promotion of it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was sort of one of those things where like,
Speaker 1: but maybe, hey, maybe if something happened to catch, then
Speaker 1: maybe we're not going to best anything in it.
Speaker 2: But if it happens to catch, yeah, so so now
Speaker 2: so now I'm faced with this situation where I'm promoting
Speaker 2: a record.
Speaker 1: I'm my mask right is is full of of confidence
Speaker 1: and and doing like some press stuff, you know. But
Speaker 1: I'm just defeated, and I'm just waking up every morning wondering,
Speaker 1: like what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: I mean, you think it's over, You think you think
Speaker 1: that your dream is dead.
Speaker 2: Did you have some money that to get you through
Speaker 2: for a few months?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a publishing deal. Okay, so you're still
Speaker 1: writing in a pay Yeah, And then I knew that
Speaker 1: when the so I basically didn't tell anyone, even though
Speaker 1: I knew, I didn't tell anybody for like four months.
Speaker 1: So that was very, very lonely because I didn't want
Speaker 1: to say something. And then and then it changed, and
Speaker 1: I wanted. I was worried that people wouldn't want to
Speaker 1: write with me anymore if I wasn't as signed artist.
Speaker 1: So I was like, I'm gonna let this play out
Speaker 1: for as long as I can before I have to
Speaker 1: say something, so you know it. It It went on,
Speaker 1: and then the new year happened. I think this was
Speaker 1: turning into twenty twenty two, and uh, and then by
Speaker 1: publishing deal also went away, you know, and then you're
Speaker 1: really faced with like, oh man, what am I gonna do?
Speaker 1: You know? Somebody has I had this jinga tower and
Speaker 1: somebody somebody kicked it over, you know, and I've got
Speaker 1: to rebuild it. And then I thought I had a
Speaker 1: single on an artist as a writer. I thought I
Speaker 1: had their next single and got a call that that
Speaker 1: wasn't happening. And that day is the day that I thought, well,
Speaker 1: I got absolutely nothing to lose at this point, and
Speaker 1: I sang this song called That's Why into my phone
Speaker 1: and posted it and went to bed, and then you know,
Speaker 1: it blew up and then my and then my life
Speaker 1: changed again.
Speaker 2: You know, the timeline of you being told that's not
Speaker 2: going to be a single, but it's still cut by
Speaker 2: the artist, so it's not gonna be the single. The
Speaker 2: timeline of being told that and recording this was was.
Speaker 1: What the song was recorded?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm trying to figure out when you're
Speaker 2: told it's not the single anymore. And that's crushing because
Speaker 2: that's where the money is. Yeah, So when you record
Speaker 2: a song into your phone, is it same? You say
Speaker 2: the same day, week and week?
Speaker 1: Uh, I'm not. I'm not sure. I'm totally understanding the question.
Speaker 1: Are you talking about this? I'm calling you right now.
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm artist, I'm I'm Jimmy Jams, and we're not
Speaker 2: I'm not cutting your song as a single and you're
Speaker 2: now heartbroken.
Speaker 1: When do you record the song that goes viral? Okay? Gotcha?
Speaker 1: So the song that went viral I had I had
Speaker 1: written just with some friends of mine, so it was
Speaker 1: like it was like a demo. Uh, and I just
Speaker 1: that's what I posted was just it was like a
Speaker 1: piano vocal It wasn't even you singing. It was me singing.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't like the fool. It wasn't a full
Speaker 1: on record, right, I was it that night? Uh? That song?
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was a few months old. No,
Speaker 1: the song, the song had just been sitting with me.
Speaker 2: I'm not asking the question right from being told you're
Speaker 2: not the single to you getting on your phone and
Speaker 2: recording that on TikTok.
Speaker 1: Different songs, correct, Yeah, yeah, but what what's the what's
Speaker 1: the time difference in them going up? This is not
Speaker 1: a single, and you're going, okay, screwed, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: sing on TikTok two hours? That is my point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was exactly what I was leading it up too,
Speaker 2: freaking hours. Yeah, and that's I think that's also why
Speaker 2: I was so confusing, because that's almost like alien abnormal.
Speaker 1: Type stuff totally doesn't make sense, doesn't make sense, doesn't
Speaker 1: make sense.
Speaker 2: So you record it, Yeah, you go to bed, you
Speaker 2: wake up, you're like, well how about that? Well I
Speaker 2: guess like this what happens then? Does anybody like slide
Speaker 2: into the DMS to go, hey, I like your sound,
Speaker 2: or do you let it build for a again?
Speaker 1: Because it doesn't just stop right. So at that point
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, I gotta put this song out. Yea, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's some like logistical things I gotta figure out to
Speaker 1: do that. Maybe maybe three weeks later the song out
Speaker 1: far and away like the biggest release of my career.
Speaker 1: Did it stream dude like crazy? It was like you
Speaker 1: know iTunes downloads, It was on the it was on
Speaker 1: the chart. I mean, it was the thing I'd always
Speaker 1: dreamed of happening, and here it is happening to me
Speaker 1: and I and I owned it all. I mean that
Speaker 1: was that was the craziest part. If this would have
Speaker 1: happened six months earlier, it would have been it still
Speaker 1: would have been life changing, but it was. It was
Speaker 1: life changing to me financially when it happened, because it
Speaker 1: I was, as we've just been over, like, I was
Speaker 1: not necessarily in a great position to uh to uh
Speaker 1: have a career in the music industry at that point,
Speaker 1: What did you think your options were?
Speaker 2: As soon as they said hey, because it feels like
Speaker 2: your last life draft at that time was the single
Speaker 2: that was probably going to be cut by artists, Well,
Speaker 2: what did you think your option were once they said
Speaker 2: that wasn't happening.
Speaker 1: I think I'd gone through the thought work of being
Speaker 1: so low for so long. You have moving home, No,
Speaker 1: I didn't because my wife, I very vividly remember, we
Speaker 1: went out to Utah. We went to like, what's the
Speaker 1: one with the I think it's called Arches. I was
Speaker 1: gonna say the one with the arches, but Arches? And uh,
Speaker 1: you drive from Salt Lake, it's like a four hour drive.
Speaker 1: And I was like, look, I don't know, like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know if I can keep doing this,
Speaker 1: Like I I don't know if I have it in
Speaker 1: me to keep going. And uh. And she told me,
Speaker 1: she was like, look, you're you're too good and you're
Speaker 1: too close to give up. Now you you have to
Speaker 1: keep going.
Speaker 2: What's funny about you saying that is the fact that
Speaker 2: she could see how close you were, but you felt
Speaker 2: so far away at the exact same time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and there have been many times since
Speaker 1: then where you know she's believed in me. You you
Speaker 1: need you need that belief. I'm I'm so lucky to
Speaker 1: have people in my in my life like that, and
Speaker 1: and and ultimately, you know, you gotta believe in yourself
Speaker 1: and that can be the hardest one. That can be
Speaker 1: the hardest one to find of all. I think some
Speaker 1: of it though, is that you look like Jesus. Get
Speaker 1: It's like people are just like, you know what, the
Speaker 1: guy looks like Jesus. Let's say, let's give a song
Speaker 1: a stream. Yeah, I get, I get Jesus and uh
Speaker 1: and diet Ryan heard a lot wish Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's funny. I'm I'm really good friends of Ryan. I
Speaker 2: was text about them last night.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He just put out a record that's really good.
Speaker 1: It's so great. Uh you wrote on did you write
Speaker 1: in that one? I didn't write on that one. I
Speaker 1: wrote in the one before. What'd you write for him before?
Speaker 1: What are you drinking?
Speaker 2: That's a good one too. I'm big Ryan fans, so yeah,
Speaker 2: so same. I know all of ustuff just because we're friends.
Speaker 2: And if I don't, he quiz me and then I'll
Speaker 2: be a loser.
Speaker 1: But that's a great song. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I was looking through some of the cuts Ryan
Speaker 2: Don't don't don't don't tell me, okay, Cody Johnson, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know what was a song?
Speaker 1: Wished it was you. It's some of the record that
Speaker 1: just came out. How so not a single.
Speaker 2: But how does Cody's albums, he's a big artist do well. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And it's hard to make money if your song is
Speaker 2: not a single. But are you are you seeing anything
Speaker 2: off of that not being a single?
Speaker 1: But because of Cody and Heed does stream so well,
Speaker 1: I think I will. It's it's like for those people
Speaker 1: that that don't know that there's a there's a long
Speaker 1: there's a pretty a lot of lag time in between
Speaker 1: when a song comes out. I think that record came
Speaker 1: out in the fall, and so I haven't even seen
Speaker 1: you know it had It'll be whatever June quarter is
Speaker 1: before I see any other not Creed Nickelback, Nickelback, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty crazy. That was a weird one. Please uh
Speaker 1: long story short? I want I want long story mid
Speaker 1: at least. Yeah. So I I my publisher at the time,
Speaker 1: This guy named will Overton uh he uh was over
Speaker 1: at Warner Chapel and he got an email from somebody
Speaker 1: who was working with Nickelback and they were looking for songs.
Speaker 1: I don't even remember what the prompt was. What the
Speaker 1: prompt was was not what the song was about.
Speaker 2: So you didn't have this song already to give them
Speaker 2: they gave you the prompt for something they were looking
Speaker 2: to have, so you went and wrote it.
Speaker 1: No, the song was written. Somebody reached out to my
Speaker 1: publisher and said, we're looking for songs like this, do
Speaker 1: you have anything got it? So my publisher put together
Speaker 1: a link of like I think it was a six
Speaker 1: songs and just send it over. And this happens all
Speaker 1: the time, and it never works. Never. It's like an audition.
Speaker 1: It never happened. You never get the audition and projecting
Speaker 1: because I never get the audition. Yeah, yeah, uh. And
Speaker 1: I think it was probably six weeks later he gets
Speaker 1: an email or a call and it says, hey, this song,
Speaker 1: this is Chad's favorite song. He loves this song. And
Speaker 1: so Will called me and told me that, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: like what what does this even mean? He's like, I
Speaker 1: have no idea. Oh that was it.
Speaker 2: There was no no other It was just his favorite song.
Speaker 2: It's not like, hey, he's.
Speaker 1: Gonna cut it. Hey Ha's cutting Yeah. I mean at
Speaker 1: that point you're like, I think he's going to cut it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's just right now, just he likes it. He
Speaker 1: likes it. Yeah, So all right, we're dancing we're at
Speaker 1: the dance. It's a good spot to be. Two and
Speaker 1: a half years ago, by holy so, I think I'm
Speaker 1: you know, I've moved on. You know. I had this
Speaker 1: this like jet ski in my mind that I was
Speaker 1: going to buy with that money and and uh and uh,
Speaker 1: you know that dream had died and then uh it
Speaker 1: was Yeah, it was like after I was on the road.
Speaker 1: I was driving back from a show in Houston, I think,
Speaker 1: you know then like a Walmart and like, uh, little
Speaker 1: rock or something, and I could just get a text
Speaker 1: and it's the song the File Bady cut and they
Speaker 1: sat the file had cut it, and then and he
Speaker 1: and and Chad came in and like he he had
Speaker 1: like tweaked a couple of things and uh and yeah
Speaker 1: and then that was the song. And it was like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was crazy because uh, Nickelback's Silver Side
Speaker 1: Up was the second record I ever bought, you know,
Speaker 1: when I was twelve, and everybody had it. It was
Speaker 1: it's a great record.
Speaker 3: It's a great record.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have great songs.
Speaker 2: And I am a hater of Nickelback haters.
Speaker 1: You don't have to be Nickelback lover, but there's no
Speaker 1: reason to being a Nickelback hater. It's just because they
Speaker 1: make good freaking music. Dude, people hate stuff it's popular,
Speaker 1: you know. I think that's all it is. I just
Speaker 1: had I was just talking to h to a chief
Speaker 1: who's who's was was their manager and is now their
Speaker 1: manager again, and uh, and yeah, it's just it's just
Speaker 1: one of those things. You know. Every everybody hated FGL
Speaker 1: for a while for for some reason, you know, and
Speaker 1: my personal reasons. But yes, I understood that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Coldplay, if you get so big, you get corny,
Speaker 2: even if you're not.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My question has been and I've asked that a couple
Speaker 2: of times to friends and even on this podcast, Like
Speaker 2: I'm waiting for Morgan Wallen to get corny, even if
Speaker 2: nothing changes with what he does. You reach a level
Speaker 2: of popularity where it doesn't matter how great you can be,
Speaker 2: sustained greatness. But once you hit this level of so
Speaker 2: many people love you, then it's corny to also be
Speaker 2: one of the people that loves you. Yeah, and so
Speaker 2: it's I wonder when Morgan Walling gets corny And he's
Speaker 2: not there yet. But if you it's just a popular
Speaker 2: When you get so popular, yeah, you get a bit
Speaker 2: corny only because you're so popular.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it becomes the It almost like the potency
Speaker 1: of what you're doing almost gets deluded because so many
Speaker 1: people start doing it as well. I mean you see
Speaker 1: you see it happening right now with Morgan, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people are chasing that sound
Speaker 1: and it's a great sound. So so I understand it.
Speaker 5: The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the
Speaker 5: Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2: And I could even understand why people would go out, Well,
Speaker 2: that doesn't feel nice, like you're saying Morgan Wallan's corny. No,
Speaker 2: I'm saying I'm using Morgan Wallen as the standard of
Speaker 2: when you look at massive acts, Yeah, who got so
Speaker 2: big and so many people love them that it was
Speaker 2: no longer cool to be one of the people that
Speaker 2: love them because so many people love them that you're
Speaker 2: just part of the herd, and nobody wants to be
Speaker 2: part of the herd. Yeah, And so it's cool to
Speaker 2: see Morgan. It's cool to see like Zach Bryan. It's
Speaker 2: cool to see Luke Combs not be corny yet and
Speaker 2: be able to do stadiums. Yeah, because that's about the
Speaker 2: time when you become so popular people feel like I
Speaker 2: don't want to be a fan anymore because everybody loves them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of hard to imagine, Like, was Tom
Speaker 1: Petty corny at some point? Did that happen?
Speaker 2: It's dude, First of all, I love Tom Petty like
Speaker 2: that is like my favorite. I was watching a TikTok
Speaker 2: last night because I'm on Tom Petty TikTok like I
Speaker 2: used to be.
Speaker 1: It's one of the best places to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so, oh, we're gonna side really on this
Speaker 2: one for a second. So Tom Petty to me top
Speaker 2: three Grace American rock artists of all time. I say
Speaker 2: American because you can go through the debate. I did
Speaker 2: have Ringo Star here a few weeks ago. It was awesome.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I hit with everybody rub that in there.
Speaker 2: So Tom Petty was talking about how if he went
Speaker 2: to watch Ray Charles, he would want to hear Ray Charles.
Speaker 1: Do.
Speaker 2: I forget what song he said specifically, but what I said,
Speaker 2: whatever song it was, Yeah, and he said, I know
Speaker 2: he started playing that thing after fifty years, but if
Speaker 2: he doesn't play it, I'm disappointed. Yeah, And he said,
Speaker 2: I have three songs that I feel that way about.
Speaker 2: And so I paused it because I'm insane in my head,
Speaker 2: and so I played a trivia game with myself. We're
Speaker 2: the only person that could win or lose with me,
Speaker 2: and so I tried to guess the three songs that
Speaker 2: Tom Petty was about to say that they expect him
Speaker 2: to play at every show, And before he even said
Speaker 2: the songs, he said, I played them at every show.
Speaker 2: I don't mess a lot with the melodies, but I
Speaker 2: try to put them in places that excites me, and
Speaker 2: I try to put them up as a part of
Speaker 2: things that can still excite me because I don't get
Speaker 2: excited about playing them because I've played him so many times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he wasn't the second.
Speaker 2: They weren't great, and I can understand that. On like
Speaker 2: the radio side, we do a segment. It's called tell
Speaker 2: Me something Good. We've done our fifteen years, we'd it
Speaker 2: four times a day. I can never do it again
Speaker 2: to be the happiest person ever in my life. But
Speaker 2: it tests so well, it researches so well. I go
Speaker 2: places and people sing the jingle to me, and so
Speaker 2: I owe it if people like it, to keep doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: So I'm not Tom Petty close, No, not at all,
Speaker 2: But I can understand in that way where it's like
Speaker 2: one of the things that people say the most to
Speaker 2: me and that they love the most. I don't really
Speaker 2: like doing yeah, but I used to love doing it,
Speaker 2: and I understand why people like it, and repetition is
Speaker 2: going to warm me out. So with Tom Petty, what
Speaker 2: do you think that three songs are?
Speaker 1: Uh, American Girl, free fall In, and I'm gonna guess
Speaker 1: won't back down all three? I would have said, probably
Speaker 1: because he has so many songs. Yeah. The three that
Speaker 1: he said were.
Speaker 2: Last Dance, Mary Jane, Yeah, free Falling and Renegade Renegade,
Speaker 2: and he said he just had no interest in playing
Speaker 2: them anymore, and he thought they were great when he
Speaker 2: wrote them, but when they would show up, people are like,
Speaker 2: oh my god.
Speaker 1: So we had to find ways to make it, could
Speaker 1: keep it interesting, to keep it interesting to him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there would be times too.
Speaker 2: By the way, this is why I enjoy you over
Speaker 2: here because I feel like we can just talk music,
Speaker 2: which is nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Also because you're like a savant like Berkeley, and then
Speaker 2: you're like super genius and I'm not near smartest you,
Speaker 2: so I can ask you things and get smarter like
Speaker 2: I like being around.
Speaker 1: People like that.
Speaker 2: So there are artists that I love and have been
Speaker 2: to their shows, and as similar thing has happened when
Speaker 2: they've played a song so many times where they start
Speaker 2: messing with the melodies and changing.
Speaker 1: The words a little bit. I don't like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I understand that.
Speaker 2: And you can do like Creep from Radiohead, when they
Speaker 2: just stop playing it for a decade.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you get tired of it.
Speaker 2: For sure, But it's to have the awareness like Tom
Speaker 2: Petty's awareness of I'm so tired of this. But let
Speaker 2: me put myself as a fan, and if I were
Speaker 2: at a Ray Charles show, I would want to hear
Speaker 2: that song even though I know he feels how I feel,
Speaker 2: so he kept playing it.
Speaker 1: Garth does the same thing. Yeah, Garth plays all the hits. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know he's tired of it. You know as an artist,
Speaker 1: you being an artist, you want to play new, fun, creative, fulfilling,
Speaker 1: exciting things. You want to go where that excitement is.
Speaker 1: But but you think the thing that that that I
Speaker 1: always try and remember with with That's why, for example,
Speaker 1: I played that song so many times, but I know
Speaker 1: I know that it means a lot to people. And
Speaker 1: I know, I know that there are people coming to
Speaker 1: that to my show because it was their first dance
Speaker 1: at their wedding or or it was playing for you know,
Speaker 1: when they got engaged or whatever that is. It's it's
Speaker 1: their songs. So I know that I I, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm super grateful for the opportunity to like have created
Speaker 1: something meaningful.
Speaker 2: I to remind myself to be grateful because I think
Speaker 2: it's easy for me to forget. And it's not like
Speaker 2: I'm working at the mill like my stepdad, But it's
Speaker 2: easy to forget because we're in our own little world.
Speaker 2: We're trying to create ten thousand things at once. And
Speaker 2: is this good as as bad? Where all of our
Speaker 2: insecurity security is based on the feedback of people by consuming.
Speaker 2: It's a nutty world, right, Like a screw's got to
Speaker 2: be off for us to do this.
Speaker 1: Hopefully it's the right screw. And so the fact that.
Speaker 2: Tom Petty had the awareness to make him a fan,
Speaker 2: to keep him from being good to his fans was
Speaker 2: so freaking cool to me because he is He's at
Speaker 2: the top of the mountain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, same man, I mean, he's he's the guy you know,
Speaker 1: and like reading, uh, conversations with Tom Petty. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've you've ever picked that up, but it's
Speaker 1: it's just a collection of things he said in interviews,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's it's it's it's inspiring to read,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, he's just a guy like everybody else,
Speaker 1: but he he was tapped into something.
Speaker 2: R be hypocritical wrophin am when Bob Dylan went acoustic
Speaker 2: to electric, Yeah, it's exact opposite, right.
Speaker 1: Well, I was I was going to bring that up,
Speaker 1: you know, you think about like, uh, somebody like a
Speaker 1: uh like a like a Bob Dylan or and Neil
Speaker 1: Young that just they're playing shows and they don't care,
Speaker 1: and they're they're changing their songs completely. They're kind of
Speaker 1: I think. I think a lot of creativity is just
Speaker 1: sort of chasing, chasing this undefinable and attainable thing. And
Speaker 1: maybe that's what they got to do to keep to
Speaker 1: keep doing it. And uh, and that's that's what they've
Speaker 1: chosen to do.
Speaker 2: It's a courage and a confidence. Yeah, because I saw
Speaker 2: Arim once. They never played a hit. It was the
Speaker 2: worst experience in my life. And I love r Em. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they played an entire new record. I hated that show.
Speaker 2: I respect that show. Yeah, because they knew everybody was
Speaker 2: gonna hate it.
Speaker 1: That's tough. They had to do it, I guess.
Speaker 2: But if Michael Stipe got famous, because again he has
Speaker 2: a couple of screws loose, they're the right screws rim
Speaker 2: you know, very late seventies, eighties, you know, in early
Speaker 2: nineties were massive. Yeah, for a reason they were different.
Speaker 2: I was pissed. I was like, this sucks. And it
Speaker 2: still pisses me off that I saw a band that
Speaker 2: I love not play a single song that I know.
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean I also can't respect the courage
Speaker 2: and the confidence that.
Speaker 1: It took to do that. Yeah, well they're u. It's
Speaker 1: it's a fine line to walk. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes I just think of like Bob Dylan, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: that is a that is a very free man. He
Speaker 1: is he's walking through life playing only by the rules
Speaker 1: that he wants to play at and uh, and it's
Speaker 1: very tempting to want to do that. That's somebody who
Speaker 1: knows who they are, and I'm jealous of that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a very uh you have you have
Speaker 1: to have a very strong sense of self to be
Speaker 1: able to operate that way, and you gotta be wildly irrational. Uh,
Speaker 1: just all this business, well, I mean that is that
Speaker 1: is the absurdity of life. You have to be so irrational.
Speaker 2: Think about just even you thinking that you're good enough
Speaker 2: to be able to record something and people will spend
Speaker 2: three minutes of their day which they have limited time listenings,
Speaker 2: or or spending a few bucks to come watch a
Speaker 2: show that you're gonna play at, or like me thinking
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go to a theater and people are gonna
Speaker 2: buy a ticket or spend fifteen minutes or an hour.
Speaker 1: That is such interrational.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a balance of I'm wildly insecure, yet I
Speaker 2: still think everybody needs to listen to everything that I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think what you're just what you're talking
Speaker 1: about is are you familiar with this this idea of
Speaker 1: like the absurd? Yes, So, like you know, like Albert Camus,
Speaker 1: like the universe doesn't care about you, and the only
Speaker 1: the way that we create value as a human being
Speaker 1: is to like do it anyway, you know, And I
Speaker 1: and I think exactly what you're describing, You're going to
Speaker 1: show up to a theater and like, you know, hope
Speaker 1: that people show up, which is it's absurd.
Speaker 2: It's absurd that people would spend Yes, it's absurd to
Speaker 2: think that I think I'm good enough for people to
Speaker 2: dedicate their time and money to kind of do it.
Speaker 1: But don't you feel like doing it? Do you feel
Speaker 1: like that gives your life? Yeah?
Speaker 2: At the same time, it's it's the dichotomy of all dichotomies. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that I am a wildly insecure person. At the same time,
Speaker 2: I can still have a massive ego m that I
Speaker 2: think I manage healthily eighty eight percent of the time.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's an odd business, especially when you start
Speaker 2: to diversifying two different things like you've done from being
Speaker 2: an artist, yeah, being a songwriter.
Speaker 1: Doing the podcast I did see.
Speaker 2: I mean I didn't love it, but you know, I
Speaker 2: got followed by two better podcasts, which was you had
Speaker 2: Kip on you had Craig Wiseman, and I was like, god, dang,
Speaker 2: if people forgot about me so quick on the A
Speaker 2: ten Year Town podcast, that's a little bit, that's right,
Speaker 2: you know, that was the opening act. You know, I
Speaker 2: was a baby I was a baby act on theodcast.
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed our conversation out there.
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.
Speaker 1: M HM, and we're back on the Bobby Cast. Wait
Speaker 1: you think about Kip. I love Kip. I think Kip
Speaker 1: is a is a is a real artist.
Speaker 2: I think we talked about Bob Dylan like for different reasons.
Speaker 2: I think Kip in the same way that Kip just
Speaker 2: does his own freaking thing. And I think for a minute,
Speaker 2: Kip would probably admit that. For a while he was like,
Speaker 2: you know, I'll make kids, and finally he was like,
Speaker 2: screw it, I'm just gonna do what I do.
Speaker 1: Ki.
Speaker 2: Kip and I got into a big fight once, and
Speaker 2: it's the only artist I've ever done this with. And
Speaker 2: I've been in many fights with many people just because
Speaker 2: I say stuff, and I say stuff for five hours
Speaker 2: a day, and sometimes I say stuff that's accurate, inaccurate,
Speaker 2: overly opinionated, unfair, fair numbers, game right, right, And Kip
Speaker 2: and I got into it pretty good about some stuff
Speaker 2: that I said about him personally. Yeah, I actually think
Speaker 2: it was about a parody of one of his songs
Speaker 2: that I was doing just be funny, But it wasn't
Speaker 2: about him and keeps a serious guy when it comes
Speaker 2: to music in his art, and he deserves to be
Speaker 2: And so he was upset, and so I was like,
Speaker 2: screw it, I don't give a crap. I'll do it again.
Speaker 2: And Kep was like, hey, will you meet me for breakfast? Like,
Speaker 2: oh man, I don't want I want to do that.
Speaker 2: I don't do anybody. I don't like hanging out with anybody,
Speaker 2: not because I don't like people.
Speaker 1: I just awkward.
Speaker 2: I'm not This is the only place I thrive is
Speaker 2: with a microphone. Like if I were to see you,
Speaker 2: I'd be like, dude, it's so good to see you. Okay,
Speaker 2: I want to like I'm not good as a human.
Speaker 2: That's not my strength.
Speaker 1: I relate to that.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I did not want to do this.
Speaker 2: And Kep when I set at a restaurant, I just
Speaker 2: talked it out for like half an hour, and like
Speaker 2: I respected that process with him because he asked for it,
Speaker 2: expected it, and delivered his fairness to it. And I
Speaker 2: love Kip because of that. Kip and I are not
Speaker 2: alike in a lot of ways. We have our birthdays
Speaker 2: one day apart. It's pretty cool, But I love Kip
Speaker 2: and if people were like, hey, dude, can you come
Speaker 2: pick me up six hours away? I will get in the
Speaker 2: car and go get him. Yeah, but are we going
Speaker 2: to hang out? Probably not because he like does muscle stuff.
Speaker 2: He like climbs stuff and does man stuff. Craig Wiseman.
Speaker 2: And you should go listen to the episode that you
Speaker 2: did with Craig. Like the guy has done, seen and
Speaker 2: worn it all.
Speaker 1: He's done a lot of different stuff. Yeah, and he Uh,
Speaker 1: it's still I think the most inspiring part of it
Speaker 1: to me is with Craig. You know, it still comes
Speaker 1: from this desire to be close to that, to that thing,
Speaker 1: you know, to to where to Like we just want
Speaker 1: to get as close as we can to like where
Speaker 1: the magic is happening. Can you get to the magic? Though?
Speaker 2: Because I don't feel like you actually can. I feel
Speaker 2: like I can't. I'll never get to this place that
Speaker 2: I am suing. That doesn't mean I've stopped or tried
Speaker 2: anything less. I just don't know if that place exists.
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean it's not true. Can you get
Speaker 2: to Is there a magic place that you can get
Speaker 2: to and be fully fulfilled?
Speaker 1: Uh? You have to ex For me, I can only
Speaker 1: speak for my own self. I think you have to
Speaker 1: fall in love with what the process is and not
Speaker 1: what the result is. And so there's a there's a
Speaker 1: moment that that there's a place that you can go
Speaker 1: to when you were making when you were writing a song,
Speaker 1: where you are Craig talked about it a little bit
Speaker 1: on ten Year Town. But where it's like it's called
Speaker 1: like a thin place where you are in the presence
Speaker 1: of something of of like you know, the creator or
Speaker 1: the universe, whatever you want to call it. And and
Speaker 1: I have, I have been there a few times. Do
Speaker 1: you know you're there when you're there a little bit?
Speaker 1: But but but you it's kind of like, uh, you
Speaker 1: don't want to think about it too much. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's very surreal, and it's it's a very very hard
Speaker 1: place to get to. It doesn't happen very often. But
Speaker 1: I mean I think, uh, like I'm not a good golfer,
Speaker 1: but I'll play a few times a year, and every
Speaker 1: now and then you just you just hit one. You're like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I could go pro And it's songwritings.
Speaker 1: It's it's similar. Man. It's just some days you you
Speaker 1: know you're in the presence of something really powerful, and
Speaker 1: that is uh, that is like worthy of for me,
Speaker 1: It's worthy of like dedicating my life to chase.
Speaker 2: My analogy would be playing crabs. M you ever play
Speaker 2: craps at all? Because you know I love playing craps.
Speaker 2: If I I'm writing for whatever book jokes, yeah, if
Speaker 2: I'm just.
Speaker 1: Live on the air of feeling it killing it.
Speaker 2: If I'm at a table and I'm I'm just throwing
Speaker 2: and I'm hitting points, I'm not crapping out. I'm not
Speaker 2: in my head. I'm not going well, I wonder what
Speaker 2: I'm gonna crap out. I wonder how long this isn't
Speaker 2: gonna go. I'm I'm just in it, not thinking about
Speaker 2: it too much because I think if I think about it,
Speaker 2: it's gonna end. But then when it's over, I'm like,
Speaker 2: holy crap, Like I was. We went forty minutes. I
Speaker 2: didn't crap out for forty minutes. When I get in
Speaker 2: those spaces, it feels like I had a great run
Speaker 2: at the crab's table, and like I can't.
Speaker 1: I can slightly.
Speaker 2: Acknowledge it's happening, but I don't want to do it
Speaker 2: too much because then I'm gonna roll freaking seven right, right.
Speaker 1: You're you're you're in the I think what happens is
Speaker 1: you're you're very, very present. And so when you're in
Speaker 1: that creative place where with the crabs table, you're so
Speaker 1: in the moment, there's a there's it's almost like a
Speaker 1: like a bubble, right, You just don't something's gonna you know,
Speaker 1: someone's gonna come along and pop the bubble. You just
Speaker 1: trying not to think about it.
Speaker 2: The bubble's never live forever, No, but the bubble's pretty
Speaker 2: awesome to be in, and it's rare to get in it.
Speaker 2: So when you get in it, you really want to
Speaker 2: try to experience it without me having a complete inner
Speaker 2: monologue of why I'm experiencing what I'm experiencing, what's this
Speaker 2: experience going to end?
Speaker 1: Is there ever gonna happen again? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I run from that, Yeah, and just and just try
Speaker 2: to live in it. But dude, it's so cool to
Speaker 2: just see what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 2: I said that to you during the podcast, but then
Speaker 2: even after, like, I enjoy talking with you afterwards too
Speaker 2: because I was just like, hey, whatever you need, Like,
Speaker 2: I see what you're doing and keep doing it, and
Speaker 2: it sucks but so does everything else that's awesome. Like
Speaker 2: everything that's awesome sucks because it's supposed to suck or
Speaker 2: everybody will be doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard, but it's rewarding.
Speaker 2: Yeah, both and two things can be true. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: can suck and be awesome at the same time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and sometimes not the exact same time. But sometimes things
Speaker 2: can suck until they get awesome, until they suck again,
Speaker 2: until they get awesome again. Yeah, and podcast is great.
Speaker 2: What have you learned from the podcast?
Speaker 1: Mmm? I think I've learned a lot about how much
Speaker 1: everyone's journey is. When I think about all the twists
Speaker 1: and turns in mind, I feel like an alien a
Speaker 1: little bit, you know. I think I've always felt that
Speaker 1: way my whole life, Like I'm a little bit of
Speaker 1: an alien on the outside looking in. And so getting
Speaker 1: getting to hear other people's stories, you start to understand likes.
Speaker 1: That's kind of part of it, that's part of life.
Speaker 1: I've learned a lot from that, and I've gained a
Speaker 1: lot of inspiration from hearing other people's stories.
Speaker 2: Other people's stories have made me not feel as alone
Speaker 2: in my group of aliens. Yeah, there are there are
Speaker 2: other aliens, like me use the I'll use alien too.
Speaker 2: I didn't think there were. I didn't think there were
Speaker 2: and no other aliens exactly like me. But there are,
Speaker 2: there are other aliens like me. They go through the
Speaker 2: same struggles, mental struggles, uh, imposter syndrome struggles, totally success struggles,
Speaker 2: comparison struggles.
Speaker 1: All of that's happening to all of us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but since we're not talking about it, we're not
Speaker 2: seeing It's very a much social media culture as well,
Speaker 2: right too. Like you cae only see the good stuff,
Speaker 2: you don't only see the bad, so then you think, well,
Speaker 2: my life's note as good as theirs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a there's a disconnect. I think that happens
Speaker 1: on sometimes can happen on social media where it does
Speaker 1: all look good, you know, And I think, uh, I
Speaker 1: think there's a real opportunity right now, just like we're
Speaker 1: having right now, for for for honest conversations and and
Speaker 1: authenticity and and I'm you know, I'm I'm obviously like
Speaker 1: trying to figure out figure it out as I go
Speaker 1: and just trying to figure out how how all of
Speaker 1: this stuff goes together, you know, And the beauteo is
Speaker 1: you will.
Speaker 2: Never figure it out it doesn't go together probably, I mean,
Speaker 2: that's it. It doesn't go together and we'll never figure
Speaker 2: it out. But that's what that's what's about it. Before
Speaker 2: you came in, we talked about the podcast and what
Speaker 2: do you want to say about about your music that's
Speaker 2: coming out?
Speaker 1: We talked a bit about it, but what do you
Speaker 1: want to say? I think I'm just I I have.
Speaker 1: We we went into it a little bit about that's why,
Speaker 1: and you know, doing all of that music independently allowed
Speaker 1: me a lot of latitude to with with income and
Speaker 1: resources to like create some stuff that I've always dreamed
Speaker 1: about making. The podcast is one of those that that
Speaker 1: is an offshoot of of my successes as a recording artist,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to make the record that I've always
Speaker 1: wanted to make without any kind of, you know, stipulations
Speaker 1: on what it needed to sound like, or it needed
Speaker 1: to have this this hit or that hit or whatever.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make something that that I've worked
Speaker 1: could work hard on and be very proud of and
Speaker 1: be excited to like put out into the world that
Speaker 1: I felt feel like is reflective of of of who
Speaker 1: I am. You make any money on the podcast? Getting there,
Speaker 1: I had, I had a lot. I had. You really
Speaker 1: inspired me.
Speaker 2: Actually, I actually asked you that question on your podcast
Speaker 2: here and.
Speaker 1: I said, and I said, I think I said no,
Speaker 1: which was true.
Speaker 2: But that's all I mean, it's it's impossible. But yes,
Speaker 2: that's why I asked. I really wanted to know.
Speaker 1: Well, you told me. I don't know if you remember this. Uh,
Speaker 1: we were talking afterwards and you said, uh, you were
Speaker 1: telling me about cold emailing people. And I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: well he's doing he's doing it. Why can't I like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel awkward, but I'm just going to
Speaker 1: do it. And I, yeah, I did. I literally just
Speaker 1: copied you. I I went on LinkedIn and I found
Speaker 1: some people that I thought might be a good fit.
Speaker 1: And I and I did some combinations to figure out
Speaker 1: this company's email format of this person's names so that
Speaker 1: I could get into their inbox and uh, and it worked.
Speaker 1: It's crazy.
Speaker 2: It's actually not crazy, but it's crazy. It's crazy because
Speaker 2: it's so simple. Yeah, and but it was awkward. It's
Speaker 2: but so was recording that song. So was recording your
Speaker 2: song after your single had been said, No, it was
Speaker 2: awkward to put the phone up and sing a song.
Speaker 2: Into a freaking camera. Yeah, and then it goes viral. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You just do it anyway. You do it when you're uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Dude.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm a big fan, you know. I was looking
Speaker 2: forward to seeing you again. I'm rooting for you. I watched,
Speaker 2: you know, watch your stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. It's pretty cool. I don't even know
Speaker 1: you as the artist. It's what's crazy.
Speaker 2: That's it's weird because sometimes people will be like, I
Speaker 2: don't really they don't listen to the radio show though
Speaker 2: I've watched Idol.
Speaker 1: For years or whatever it was. I'll know me for
Speaker 1: these weird things.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, I don't really think that that's funny.
Speaker 2: Is that disorienting at all? It's I wouldn't say disorienting.
Speaker 2: There's just no orientation to.
Speaker 1: It at all. Yeah, to any of it. It's just
Speaker 1: all the.
Speaker 2: It's all yeah, and it's awesome. It's great unless they
Speaker 2: try to stab you. Otherwise it's it's great. And I'm famous,
Speaker 2: so fractured mm hmm. Nobody's famous yet everybody's famous, and yeah,
Speaker 2: boy like and like you said, there's a chance for
Speaker 2: if you just do it enough. There are no gatekeepers
Speaker 2: actual human form gatekeepers. There's an algorithm we can't figure out,
Speaker 2: but it's a different gatekeeper, but it's at least it's
Speaker 2: not one that is going to get you know, canceled
Speaker 2: for doing inappropriate things in an office, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just it's it's pulled out under
Speaker 1: beyond understanding algorithm.
Speaker 2: Everybody has a chance though, yeah, and everybody didn't always
Speaker 2: have a chance, right, and everybody has a chance now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's an exciting time. Well, I'm a big fan.
Speaker 2: We put all your information down in the notes as well,
Speaker 2: and check out the podcast, and I'm going to go
Speaker 2: in what Nickelback song was that.
Speaker 1: I want to horizon? Okay, check it out.
Speaker 2: That's my favorite Nickelback song ever. I know I don't
Speaker 2: know what it is, but I wanna those do that.
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: I believe you when you said it you got a skill.
Speaker 1: There's no way I believe that.
Speaker 2: But that's pretty cool to hear like somebody, like a
Speaker 2: familiar voice singing something that you created in your brain regardless.
Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah, Like the feeling of when I just
Speaker 1: press played the first time in the and the guitars
Speaker 1: are playing, that's cool. Yeah, it's crazy. It doesn't you know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense, but but it did happen.
Speaker 2: Check out ten Year Time podcast and everything else is
Speaker 2: down in the notes. Good to see you, Troy, and
Speaker 2: let's do this again soon, all
Speaker 5: Right, Thank you for having me, Thanks for listening to
Speaker 5: a Bobby Cast production