WEBVTT - #508 - Troy Cartwright on Questioning Himself After Getting Dropped + Looking Like Jesus & Being the JV Ryan Hurd + Why Songwriting is Like Golfing 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.800 That is really hard because you are not aware of 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:13.440 all the things that they had to do to get there. 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.279 You're just on your first six months of your record 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.400 deal contract and you're trying to figure out, like why 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:21.759 you're not selling out a stadium yet. 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.240 Welcome to episode five oh eight Troy Cartwright. Troy has 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:29.880 a podcast called ten Year Town. That's how I was 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.920 introduced to him. It's a really good podcast. It's I 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:35.320 would say, a better version of this show. 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:37.640 You would say that, yeah, probably. 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:42.000 Yeah. He's like a legit songwriter. He's a legit artist, 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.479 and we talk a lot about that. But I was 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:46.839 drawn to his podcast because I was following it on 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:48.519 TikTok and the clips would come up and now I 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:50.199 was like, dang. And I went into his podcast and 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.840 I don't think it's as big yet, but I was like, yeah, 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:54.160 this is a better version of what I do in that. 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:55.800 While though you see something on TikTok and you think 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:57.560 it's massive, Like I've been seeing his clip for a 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:00.360 long time now, and it's weird seeing he's per inspected 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:01.040 from his side. 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:03.400 Yeah, yeah, I really like it. I like him a lot, 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:05.200 and so we'll talk to him coming up in just 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:07.560 a second. As we hop in to episode five O eight, 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.360 I was watching Speaking of TikTok, was watching clips from 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.800 your podcast, Mike Movie Mike's Movie Podcast, and I am 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.720 fascinated and have been fascinated with the Oklahoma City bombing. 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:18.640 I'm like so into That's kind of how I learned 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.400 about it. I just watched the Netflix documentary that just 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:21.880 came out. 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:23.880 Oh there is one, yeah, I saw so that's why 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:25.160 I saw you talking to I didn't know that was 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:25.759 on Netflix. 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.240 Yeah, director of the documentary, the director of it. 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.160 Because I was too young when it happened. I don't 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:32.600 really remember it, and watching that documentary is me learning 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.000 all the details for the first time. 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:36.600 Age Flex, I hear you, age Flex. 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:41.960 That story is crazy because there's like eight avenues of crazy, 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.720 meaning you could go there out of who really was he? 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:47.840 Who are they working for? There's all that. There's also 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:49.760 just how it was caught that's wild. 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.520 It was also crazy that when they didn't know it 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.680 was him, they started accusing other people. They were like, oh, 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:57.840 we saw Middle Eastern people coming out of that a building. 0:01:57.880 --> 0:01:59.440 Yeah, it doesn't it show I mean, and that stuff 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:01.360 still happening to It just shows like. 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.680 Even back in the nineties, like that was just there. 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.920 And in the nineties there was nobody to speak out 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:09.639 against it because there wasn't social media or other forms 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:13.079 of tell or other or eighty networks to go, hey, 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:14.800 we don't think that's right. There were like three channels, 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:19.320 four channels. But so the bomb goes off, it's not 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:21.200 a spoiler because it's a relevant in the history. The 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.280 bomb goes off and the guy who set the bombs 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:30.560 drives away and his license plate the explosion actually shook 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:32.519 the car somebody, his license plate fell to the ground 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:35.359 and that they found the license plate. 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:37.600 Yeah, and he was driving like seventy miles from there, 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:38.919 got pulled over for another for. 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.680 Reason, Yeah, because he had no license plate, not because 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.440 they were like that's the guy they And then he 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.679 had a gun on him and no license plate. So 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:49.320 they put him in jail, but not because of the bombing. 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:50.639 And then he's in jail the whole time, and they're 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.600 looking for, like you said, a Middle Eastern guy. They're 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:54.840 looking for all these fake and he's sitting right there 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.799 in prison. It's a all. It's tragic, it's sad, and 0:02:57.919 --> 0:02:58.840 he almost got ahead of. 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:00.280 Jail, like he was in court. They were like a 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.080 better let this guy go, Like wait a minute, yep. 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.720 So go check out Movie Mike's Movie podcast. I would 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.840 say if you love movies, it's a great podcast obviously, 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.480 but even if you want to learn more about that, 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.160 because you're talking with the director of that project. 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.399 Yeah, one of the retired FBI agents who was there 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:18.200 rescuing people. 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.360 I went to the building across the street because I 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.639 went and toward the whole thing, and so went up 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:28.960 and there's audio of from the building across the street 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:31.840 as they're having a city a town hall meeting because 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.120 they record all the town hall meetings, and you hear 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.520 it in the town hall meeting how loud the explosion 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:38.840 was to the people across the street. 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:39.080 Yeah. 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.600 I didn't realize how massive the destruction was too. 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:42.280 Yeah. 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:46.120 So, and again there are a lot of conspiracy lanes 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:47.760 to travel down if you choose. 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:49.480 But that's everything. 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.960 But yeah, you're right, check out that on Movie Mike's 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.360 Movie Podcast. And not so much just a plug about 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.960 Mike's podcast, which is great, but I'm super interested in that. 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:02.320 I'm super interested in songwriters and especially the viewpoints of songwriters, 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.560 which is what Troy does. He brings on others and 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.560 they have talks, and so this is my talk with him. 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.600 This is Troy Cartwright and again the ten year Town podcast. 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.560 I love it. Here's the episode. Enjoy Troy. 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.240 Good to see you, Good to see you. How you 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.919 I don't know, it's kind of like that, I don't know. Good. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.719 Yeah, My days I think are layered a bit different 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.120 than yours. Yeah, just from the waking up part, right, 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.880 So I think we're When people ask me that question, 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:32.480 it's often like how you doing, I'm like, you know, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.080 I think it's I'm at a different stage of my day, 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.279 so it's relative to what stage of the day you 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:38.920 know you're in. 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:39.800 Yeah. 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.080 I was gonna say before, I really like you, by 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.560 the way, and we spent time on your podcast, and 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.520 I definitely want to talk about that. Yeah, I didn't 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:52.040 know you, but i'd seen ten Yuretown on TikTok, saw 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.840 the clips. Yeah, and really had a great time on 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:56.760 your podcast, and I hope it was well received and 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:58.800 very You have to say that, so I don't want 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:00.200 you to say it. You have to say it. It's 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:04.920 an obligation to say that. But yeah, you do a 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.599 great job. And I left going man, that was fun 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:11.040 for me because I didn't feel like I had to 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:12.400 do what I feel like I often have to do, 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.960 which is take controls. So it's not a dude, and 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:17.840 I'm not right when I do that, but I didn't 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:18.960 have to do that with you. 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:19.479 You owned it. 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.120 And I hope people hear this and go, wow, maybe 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.040 if this interview is not terrible, I'll go check out 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:25.800 Troy's podcast. 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.920 Yeah, so, how are you enjoying that? I'm loving it still. 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.720 Oh yeah. It's one of those things right where if 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.560 I would have known how hard it was when I started, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.680 I'm not sure I would have done it. That's this 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:38.520 whole career too. 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:41.719 I mean that's a microcosm for everything, this whole freaking city. 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:45.520 Yeah. So it's been a lot of work, but it's 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:50.279 you know, it's been really rewarding and I you know, 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:55.400 I enjoy getting to like to tell the stories, you know, 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:57.839 and I like talking to people. Yeah. 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.760 I think you like what people should like about podcasting 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:06.880 because I feel like you pay attention, you care, you 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.400 are interested and curious, like you have all the things 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.200 that I think I wish I cared about. Where I'm 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:15.840 just like, ah, god, it's a lot to say, and 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:17.640 there's another human in the room, and let's just see 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.719 what happens. Like That's what I liked about, because you're 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.640 very warm. I'll come back to the podcast. I wanted 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:25.160 to lead with that, though, because I do feel that way, 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:29.560 and I know we've texted on once. Yeah, once or twice, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:31.760 But I wanted to say that at the beginning, so 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:32.520 I didn't forget. 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:33.800 But thank you. 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:38.360 What I didn't know a lot about as far as 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.920 your career was your music. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:41.839 You're writing. 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:43.720 I knew you from doing the podcast, but I knew 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:45.440 you did the podcast because you were also a writer, 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.600 but I didn't really know what that story was. Yeah, 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.840 I'm seeing now on TikTok because I'm a psycho super 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:52.520 fan of yours. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:55.240 Are you writing again? 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:59.239 Are you now writing and making content with what you're writing? 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.440 Because I'm seeing content? Yeah, So where are you in 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:07.960 that stage? Uh? So I am writing every day? Have 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.120 you always been writing every day? I've been writing every 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:14.800 day more or less since I moved to Nashville eight 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.640 years ago, almost nine years ago. Now I'm coming up 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.520 on the title of my podcast. You know, so some 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:22.480 Some's got a break soon. 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:24.280 You're about to be a millionaire then, because if you 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.320 make it ten years, you're automatically a Millionaire's how it works. 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:34.160 Yeah. Yeah, So I'm writing all the time, and I 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:40.680 have been working towards a new record for my my 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.680 artist project, and you know, in addition to that, I 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.360 am writing songs for other people. 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:51.360 So is that why I'm seeing you do you in 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.559 music content? Because you're working on you? Yeah, that would 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.040 make sense. Yeah, it's because. 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:57.440 If you're. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:00.920 Writing and you have a publishing deal, you're writing independent 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.720 whatever you're doing, and you're writing for other people or 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:05.600 you're writing to be pitched, you're probably not putting a 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:06.720 lot of that content. 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.840 On social media. It makes sense if you're doing your 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:15.960 own project. Yes, and it is, you know it. It's 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.000 a it's a it's quite a long story and I'm 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:22.480 happy to go into it if you podcast wants stretch it, 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:26.040 string it. But it's kind of like what we talked 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:30.520 about on when you came on my podcast about like 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:36.120 there's this opportunity with making content, you know, which is 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.720 like the buzzword of the day, where you can really 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:45.440 get heard, you know, you can get discovered, you can 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:50.600 reach people, and when you're writing and making songs you're 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.200 trying to you hope that it can mean something to somebody. 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:59.400 Yeah, the environment is very different and also the same 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.320 in the way of what's great about now is the 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:08.400 finger quote gatekeepers have far less control. Yeah, but the 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.720 finger quote gatekeepers are now an algorithm. 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.600 That right, you don't even know who they are. 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.320 Well, at least you kind of knew the devil you 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:22.160 were dancing with before. H But the freedom now is 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.600 is that you have it, and it just takes the 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.320 right thing at the right time and the right algorithm 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:29.880 looking for the. 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:33.120 Right yeah, for it to hit right. There's something I 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.280 heard one time about like increasing your your luck surface 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:38.800 area so you you still got it. Like if you 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.080 go if you want to go viral, you know, it 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.080 takes a lot of luck, but can be more tries 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.720 lead to more luck. And that's hard work. And and 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:52.840 I've had, you know, some stuff go really viral. 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.920 What's really viral to a few reels last few years 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.560 define a number. 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:05.959 I think when I posted That's why, which was trying 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.360 to think if it was twenty three or twenty two. 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.240 I think it was twenty two. I posted it right 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:16.840 before Valentine's Day, and I went to bed. It wouldn't post. 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:18.680 It was weird it like I love. I went to 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:20.280 bed story and wake up and it was big. It's 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.760 like a Bailey's Donement type days. It was happening for 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:24.640 so many people. 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.240 Yeah, but literally, yeah, I posted this thing and I 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.880 was uncomfortable. I was singing to my camera, you know, 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:35.120 not really my it's really my vibe. Yeah, it feels 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.840 a little goofy. Yeah. I went to bed. I think 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:42.160 that one was many hundreds of thousands, if not close 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.200 to a million. The next day. The next day, and 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.640 I had just gotten dropped from my record deal, so 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:55.480 it was like, okay, here we go. You know, I 0:10:55.640 --> 0:11:00.199 was right, Are you a god guy? Yeah? Yeah, in 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:01.160 my own way. 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.440 Yes, And and I and I think it's a great 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.160 answer in your own way, yes, because I am in 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:08.120 my own way as well. 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.320 I think we all are and we have our own. 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.320 Different But did that was that ever part of it 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.400 where it's like something It didn't have to be a 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:23.200 god thing, something bigger just showed me that whatever I 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:28.000 lost in that, hey you've now been dropped, that maybe it's. 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.440 Not all lost. What did that happen at all? 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:30.680 With you? 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.720 Yeah? You know, there's this. There's this quote I really 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.000 like that says opportunity is a strange beast that frequently 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:40.800 appears after a loss. And I and that has been 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.640 true for me a lot of times. And it was 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:49.679 it was an interesting time because I was dealing with 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.360 sort of a little bit of an identity crisis because 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.320 ever since I when I first moved to town, I 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.720 had some momentum coming when I came here from Texas, 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.080 momentum based on what based on some music I had 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.800 put out. And this was very very like, you know, 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.440 comparatively small, but it was there was something bubbling up 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:12.800 and I was doing something that I think, you know, 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.960 somebody somebody liked, and that your artist. 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.400 You're you're sick because you have different versions of your career. Yes, 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.520 I have performance, got it? 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.600 Yeah? Yes, I have kind of a songwriting an artist 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.000 and and now a podcast. You gotta do you want to. 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.640 Final like I'm five at times? Okay, So you move 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:35.000 here with some momentum, yes, based on your performance correct 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.439 performing I had started. 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.199 Up until that point, I was just living in Dallas, writing, 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.000 you know, in in my bedroom basically, and I had 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.480 made a record and I had put part of that 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:52.439 record out and somebody that worked as like an independent 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.480 radio promoter invited me. They said, you should come to 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.800 Nashville and you should meet some people. So that's how 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:03.480 I met a publisher named Jake Gear and then he 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.120 set me up on some co writs. Blah blah blah. 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:12.000 Like a year later, I moved to Nashville and I 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:17.440 got on the radar of somebody at the label and 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.720 they signed me. It happened pretty quick, you know, I 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:22.480 got I got a record deal, and that was that 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.480 was a dream at the time. It was a dream 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:24.880 come true. 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.480 It happened so quick that you didn't really got the 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.520 eyes and cross the t's and or even understand that 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:31.120 that was a thing. 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.760 You know, I've been thinking about this a little bit. 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:39.680 It's it was a perfectly fine deal. Yeah I was. 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:43.160 I'm not insinuating it was lu Pearlman shady right right right, Uh, 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:43.880 it was. 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.960 There's a lot of things looking back on that I 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.839 wasn't thinking about. Part of that was just like what 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.480 do I want to sound like? What do I want 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.920 to say? How old are you? I was twenty six. 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.440 You're just starting at that age to figure out what 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.360 You're just starting to figure out. 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:06.920 Yeah, I mean, you don't even know what you ask 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.200 to that crisis. I understand the cirl. Okay, so what 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:14.120 happens is you come to town. Here I go from writing. 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.760 I was very rigid with my schedule when I when 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.280 I was writing by myself, I woke up every day, 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.640 I started writing at eleven, and I wrote until two 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.280 or three in the afternoon every day. So when I 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.600 moved to Nashville, Okay, now I'm getting set up on 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.560 these co writes, and I'm writing with people, and now 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.560 there's these things called track guys. So now you're getting 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.880 like these almost basically you're ending the day with a 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.640 song that kind of sounds like a record, but you're 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:46.280 you're going through you know, maybe one hundred different combinations 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:50.240 of writers. So so over time, when you don't know 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.160 exactly what you want to say and what you want 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:58.240 to sound like, you can strangely lose your voice in 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.520 the in that process. Mind me up. 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.280 And it's not exactly the same that quote if you 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.720 don't stand for something, you'll stand for anything, Yeah, And 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.720 it's that you aren't for sure, yeah, And you're around 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:10.480 a lot of other people who kind of bar for sure, 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.800 and so you're kind of pulled in directions of what 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.440 you think might be the thing that works. 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.360 No doubt, And and what happens is then you get 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:24.720 a record deal. Well they're geniuses, they know, so I 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.040 want to do what they say. You know, I want 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.960 to be you know, I like, I want to be 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.520 a good artist and well liked and I'm a people pleaser. 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.640 So all of these things. It's nothing, nothing nefarious is happening. 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.920 It's just it start, it starts to slant towards the middle, 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:48.360 you know, and then I'm making music that sounds like 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.480 the radio, which is cool, but lost your edge though. 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.680 Yeah, the things that got you here you no longer 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.280 have one because you're now here and you're trying to 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:01.480 sound like here, which is very easy to do because yeah, 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.080 same anybody that moves to town and you're around quote 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.720 these geniuses, Yeah they're just us. 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:13.200 And when they moved here, they saw the geniuses. Yeah. 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:15.960 It's almost a cycle that everybody goes through, and you 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.400 have to do it wrong in order to fully understand 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:21.120 that no one's ever right. 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:27.560 Yeah, nobody knows anything. You just you do. Eventually have 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:29.720 to get back to a place where you go like, 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.160 what do I what do, I want to say, you know, 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.800 and and part of that is just learning the lessons 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.720 of taking the hits, you know. I mean, that's that's 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.360 a big part of it. Yeah. 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.400 To me, it was if I'm going to fail, because 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.920 I've already failed a bunch of times here doing different things, 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:51.720 at least I want to fail doing it my way, 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.480 because at least that feels like I honestly failed. 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.840 Yeah, and there's something there's a real truth to. 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:04.320 Success or failure when it's your truth, because you know 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.840 it's genuine either way. Where if I you know, there 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.720 were times my first couple of years here, I was hated. 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:10.520 I was hated because I was way different. So at 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:16.800 times I would manipulate or modify and it wouldn't go well. 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.239 And it got to the point where it was, if 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:20.960 it's not gonna go well, I'd rather it not go 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.000 well with me being exactly me, because then I know 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.680 it's me, it's not whatever I'm chasing. 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.359 Do you feel like you were you were modifying yourself 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.000 to like fit into like some mold that you thought 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:34.160 it was supposed to fit into. 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:39.359 My situations, as similar as it was to yours, was 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:40.080 different in that. 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.480 Mine was genuine I hate you. 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.040 The word hatred, it would I would say uneducated hatred 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:52.240 from the industry because I was so different in the 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.520 industry is a big evil man that doesn't have a face. 0:17:55.119 --> 0:18:00.560 It's like when people can complain about the rady and 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.560 I'm not mister fight for radio either, but it's like 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.879 radio just won't. That's not a thing, right, It's so 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.280 when I say that. So it was an uneducated hatred 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:15.080 toward me because I was different and I challenged norms 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:21.040 and norms that felt comfortable then felt threatened, and after 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.400 a long time of it being difficult for me, I thought, 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:24.960 what can I do to make this not so difficult 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:29.159 for me? So it wasn't that I was going, I'm 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.080 going to do this to get better because I have 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.159 confidence in that area, but it was this sucks, like 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.159 I'm having articles written that aren't true about me, and 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:44.480 like local music industry magazines, I'm having four or five 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.320 different type of of of deal and I'm like, you 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.040 know what, I'm just I'm going to lose some of 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.480 my edge, so some of that edge is not given 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:55.879 back to me. So the parallels are from your story 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.960 of mine are similar, but the same thing it still. 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.960 Didn't go well. Once I changed and got a little softer. 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:04.720 Yeah, I was like, I'm just gonna be me and 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:06.399 then if I fail, at least the truth is I 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:12.320 failed because I failed with with who I was totally. 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.640 Yeah. You you almost think it's gonna be easier because 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.520 you give in to what you think you're supposed to do, 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:26.280 but the you know, the end result is uh. I 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:29.240 was just I was becoming very dissatisfied. I was waking 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.120 up and looking in the mirror and being like, I'm 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.160 not this feels out of sync. 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.280 Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor, 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.320 and we're back on the Bobby Cast. 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:55.320 I bek you're losing yourself. Yeah, because what happens is 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:02.879 you are surrounded by the system that is holding you 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:07.240 are constantly standing in comparison to the most successful artists 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:12.639 on the planet, and that is really hard because you 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.640 are not aware of all the things that they had 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.880 to do to get there. You're just on your first 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.320 six months of your record deal contract and you're trying 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.600 to figure out, like why you're not selling out a 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.920 stadium yet. You know you've got to kind of like, okay, 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.000 well I'm going to reverse engineer this and try and 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:35.320 sound like this. And it's not even always intentional, it's 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.240 just sort of the way that the like I said, 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.639 the table is slanted towards the middle, so you just 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:46.480 kind of end up making stuff that is palatable to 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.959