Speaker 1: Welcome to Go ask Ali, a production of Shonda Land
Speaker 1: Audio and partnership with iHeartRadio. I think like vaginas have
Speaker 1: a lot to say. I think we should let them
Speaker 1: stay out of it and they'll just talk. Yes, one
Speaker 1: of the hardest things to absorb for those who are
Speaker 1: new to these kinds of fights. Again, if we want
Speaker 1: all of them, we wouldn't be here. If you see
Speaker 1: a monster, don't try to run away, step right up
Speaker 1: to it and say, what do you have to teach me?
Speaker 1: Why are you? In my mind, I want to be
Speaker 1: the person who has cancer and doesn't run a marathon,
Speaker 1: Like do I have to work that hard? No, it's
Speaker 1: the best excuse not to run a marathon. Welcome to
Speaker 1: go ask Alli. I'm Ali Wentworth Today. My guest is
Speaker 1: Paulina Portzkova, the beautiful Paulina, And when I say beautiful,
Speaker 1: I mean inside and out. Now. I met Paulina about
Speaker 1: thirty years ago. We both did a TV pilot together
Speaker 1: and I instantly clicked with her and remained very close
Speaker 1: friends since she's the godmother of my youngest daughter. She
Speaker 1: held my hand during my pregnancy where I had hyporemesis
Speaker 1: and threw up all the time, we have had quite
Speaker 1: a journey, so Covid was not kind to Paulina Portskova.
Speaker 1: Paulina went through the death of a husband, a change
Speaker 1: of home, and quite a lot of public scrutiny. But
Speaker 1: now having gone through a few very difficult years, she's
Speaker 1: building herself back up. She's starting over, and she's putting
Speaker 1: herself out there into the world, particularly the dating world,
Speaker 1: and seeing if she can find love again. Paulina Portskova
Speaker 1: is a writer, model and actress. A top model in
Speaker 1: the eighties, she was the first Central European woman to
Speaker 1: win the cover of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, and then in nineteen eighty eight she
Speaker 1: became the face of St. Lauder and one of the
Speaker 1: highest paid models in the world. Paulina has since performed
Speaker 1: in dozens of movies and TV shows. She's written two books.
Speaker 1: Her recent one is a memoir called No Filter, which
Speaker 1: explores heartbreak, grief, beauty, aging, and much more. I can't
Speaker 1: believe that I'm talking to you and you look so beautiful,
Speaker 1: and you are surrounded by flowers behind you. Yes, I'm
Speaker 1: surrounded by self help books. So I'm excited to dive
Speaker 1: into this subject with you, because, as you know, I've
Speaker 1: been married for a million years and I missed the
Speaker 1: whole dating app thing. I've missed all of it and
Speaker 1: the only date I ever went on was with my
Speaker 1: now husband, so which I remember, Well, I know you do.
Speaker 1: I was there, I know you were. So I'm first
Speaker 1: of all, I'm just going to clear up what I
Speaker 1: know women that are listening to this podcast are going
Speaker 1: to say, and we're just going to nip it in
Speaker 1: the butt, which is, oh my gosh. If Paulina port
Speaker 1: Skova isn't taken off the market in a few seconds,
Speaker 1: how is there any hope for me? Because Paulina, you're
Speaker 1: a very beautiful woman. Why thank you famously so globally.
Speaker 1: You're also incredibly smart with a great sense of humor.
Speaker 1: The idea that you're single is laughable, but you are.
Speaker 1: You are single, You're dating? I am, I am dating? Correct,
Speaker 1: But yeah, I am. I'm still a single. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about your backstory for those
Speaker 1: people that have been living under a rock, why you
Speaker 1: are single, and then we're going to dive into this
Speaker 1: whole world of which I'm going to vicariously live through
Speaker 1: with you. Oh my god, and you're gonna be so
Speaker 1: happy to be married, even if your marriage was boring
Speaker 1: as shit, You're gonna really appreciate being married. That's a
Speaker 1: good news for all of you who are married. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So what happened was that I was married to somebody
Speaker 1: for a very long time, for thirty years actually, and
Speaker 1: towards the end of our well, the marriage was failing
Speaker 1: and so we were going to get a divorce. We separated,
Speaker 1: and then he died. So yeah, that kind of spit
Speaker 1: me out on a market, pretty bluntly and pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: I was also in a relationship at the time, actually
Speaker 1: with someone who I don't care to name anymore. But
Speaker 1: he walked away right in the middle of COVID the
Speaker 1: day I sold my house because he, I guess, found
Speaker 1: me too difficult to be with. He picked a good
Speaker 1: moment to leave, I have to say. And by the way,
Speaker 1: anybody in that position who isn't being difficult has no
Speaker 1: emotional life. So yeah, one days a little lacking in empathy,
Speaker 1: you know, But so it kind of an end, you know,
Speaker 1: he left with You know, if you're leaving somebody, you're
Speaker 1: going to point out all their flaws. So he made
Speaker 1: me feel very inadequate. I was crazy, and I was old,
Speaker 1: and there was a whole host of things that he
Speaker 1: said old. Yeah, he didn't actually say old. He just
Speaker 1: said thank you for getting me over older women, and
Speaker 1: then promptly went out with somebody much younger. Oh my god. Now,
Speaker 1: if that doesn't make you run to a you know,
Speaker 1: dirm to get a face full of botox and fillers,
Speaker 1: I don't know what does. Yeah. So that was fun. Oh,
Speaker 1: I can imagine what a ride well, but what it
Speaker 1: leaves you with, right is being completely unsure of who
Speaker 1: you are as a woman. Now. So I'm like fifty
Speaker 1: five and I've just been rejected by the two men
Speaker 1: that I've loved, and so I was feeling super insecure
Speaker 1: about myself, about my age, about the way I looked
Speaker 1: about who I was. Apparently I was not only, you know,
Speaker 1: an older woman, but I was also crazy. And as
Speaker 1: the saying goes, the best way to get over somebody
Speaker 1: is to get under somebody else. Oh I've never heard
Speaker 1: that saying, Wow, you've been married too long, alec, I
Speaker 1: love it. It's a good saying unless you're going through
Speaker 1: COVID A COVID pandemic, which shuts down the entire universe.
Speaker 1: So you're thrown into the single world with your heartbroken
Speaker 1: in a million pieces, and you're grieving the death of
Speaker 1: a relationship and the heartbreak of another and now it's COVID,
Speaker 1: so you can't even slip under somebody even to Jesus God,
Speaker 1: thank you for being so empathetic. It was a It
Speaker 1: was a really it was a really, really sad and
Speaker 1: horrible time. So I went through about three months of
Speaker 1: being isolated up in my house in the country, being
Speaker 1: somewhat touicidal kind of, you know, managing to pick myself
Speaker 1: up a little bit enough to start dating apps. Okay,
Speaker 1: so take me through that. Because I don't know anything
Speaker 1: about the dating app, I wouldn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I would swipe the wrong direction. So first
Speaker 1: of all, how did you even start? Did somebody say, Paulino,
Speaker 1: you need to be on an app, Like, how did
Speaker 1: you even get started? Well? I actually got started on
Speaker 1: I downloaded two dating apps when my husband and I
Speaker 1: split up, like when we when we separated, Because again,
Speaker 1: like you, I was gedu. I was just curious. I
Speaker 1: just wanted to know what this thing was like, and
Speaker 1: I would. Course, I went on two dating apps. I
Speaker 1: went on Riyah, which is for that famous people. However,
Speaker 1: there's quite a few dentists and real estate developers these
Speaker 1: days that cool. Maybe they're famous dentists and really, and
Speaker 1: do you have to be accepted on Raya? Like do
Speaker 1: you almost apply to be on the app and then
Speaker 1: they say yea or nay? Yeah Riya. I mean in
Speaker 1: the olden days of like two years ago, I think
Speaker 1: you had to have like a certain amount of Instagram
Speaker 1: followers to get in, and then you had to be
Speaker 1: recommended by one or two other Riya members. And so
Speaker 1: I reached out to a couple that I knew were
Speaker 1: on it, and they recommended me, and so I got
Speaker 1: in fairly quickly. Hinge. I put my name up and
Speaker 1: I immediately got shut down as false account. Why because
Speaker 1: Paulina Proskova obviously would never be using Hinge, therefore I
Speaker 1: was not real. Oh my god, Oh my god. And
Speaker 1: I signed myself up under my nickname with a friend's
Speaker 1: telephone number, and then I just kind of let them
Speaker 1: sit there and I'm this other guy, you know, on
Speaker 1: a on a dinner party. So I I never actually
Speaker 1: like use the apps. I would just kind of go
Speaker 1: on once in a while just because it's fun fun,
Speaker 1: right when like when you have dealt with it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean just like looking at all the guys and
Speaker 1: you go, oh, he's on Rya. Oh he's on Riya.
Speaker 1: Oh you don't say, oh he's on Rya. Oh. Interesting.
Speaker 1: But by the way, that's also happening about you. I'm
Speaker 1: sure there were men going Jesus Christ pauling up Portscoba's
Speaker 1: on a dating app click or swipe or whatever they do. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it depends from app to app. But the funny thing
Speaker 1: is that on on Hinge, most people either didn't know
Speaker 1: who I was or kind of thought it might be me,
Speaker 1: but they weren't short because I was also not on
Speaker 1: there as pauling up Portscoba and on Rya, people assume
Speaker 1: that you are who you are because you are kind
Speaker 1: of verified. But on Rya, the men on Rya are
Speaker 1: not looking for fifty five year olds. There look king
Speaker 1: for women much younger, and there is plenty of pickens
Speaker 1: of hot young things. And so I think I slept
Speaker 1: with the three guys available on Riyah. Oh okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so okay before we before we again slide underneath.
Speaker 1: So walk me through the first date you had off
Speaker 1: of a dating app. Oh well, actually the first date
Speaker 1: I had off of a dating app was Riyah, and
Speaker 1: it was a We started texting as one does. One
Speaker 1: starts texting when you first text through the app, so
Speaker 1: that you don't have each other's phone number until you
Speaker 1: figure out if you trust this person enough. And of
Speaker 1: course it's like middle of COVID, so it's kind of
Speaker 1: hard to me because you can't really go anywhere, and
Speaker 1: also you have to trust this person is going to
Speaker 1: be as isolated as you are, so you don't obviously
Speaker 1: want to go out with somebody that's like COVID doesn't exist,
Speaker 1: I don't care. So that was the first hurdle. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I found this guy who was actually really sweet. We're
Speaker 1: still kind of in contact today as as friends. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he sort of got me out of that headspace
Speaker 1: of feeling vastly unattractive and undesirable and too complicated to want.
Speaker 1: So it was it was a nice, little, fairly short
Speaker 1: lived affair. And so did you meet in a restaurant? Like?
Speaker 1: How did when you first It's like I always imagine
Speaker 1: that people on these apps, and I've had we have
Speaker 1: a mutual friend that was talking to somebody and zooming
Speaker 1: during COVID and playing you know, chesss online and like
Speaker 1: they had this whole relationship during COVID, and then when
Speaker 1: they finally met, she was like, he was not physically
Speaker 1: at all what he appeared to be on zoom, which
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was a hype thing, but she said that she wasn't
Speaker 1: physically atracted to him in person. So I'm curious how
Speaker 1: you have that sort of zoom relationship text relationship and
Speaker 1: then you meet in person. You know what, I never
Speaker 1: actually zoomed with any of my prospective dates. I would
Speaker 1: text with them and if they seemed smart and witty,
Speaker 1: I thought, but that's enough. That's fine with me, because
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not looks and height. I really don't care.
Speaker 1: Like to me, if they can make me laugh and
Speaker 1: if they're really smart, I can find them attractive. It
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter what they look like physically. And the
Speaker 1: guy who I first went out with looked exactly like
Speaker 1: his pictures did on Riyah, so that was good. He
Speaker 1: wasn't pretending to be something else, so it was a
Speaker 1: good first experience off a dating app actually, and then
Speaker 1: oh god, and then I went to Hinge because Rya
Speaker 1: sort of dried up, you know. Like I said, there
Speaker 1: were like three guys that wanted to meet me on Ryah.
Speaker 1: I met them all and then they all just disappeared.
Speaker 1: Then there was no more guys. So I walked over
Speaker 1: to Hinge. Why I swiped over to Hinge an incredible
Speaker 1: amount of photos with men holding up dead fish? What? Why?
Speaker 1: What the hell does that symbolize? I'd like to know
Speaker 1: that too. Do you have any ideas because I am baffled. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't help, but parallel the dick, like
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, look at this twenty
Speaker 1: pounds salmon. This is what my dick looks like. That's
Speaker 1: my only guess. You mean limp and cold? Yeah, awesome, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think the intent is, Look, I can hunt, I
Speaker 1: am a provider. I can feed you. Oh Jesus, look
Speaker 1: I catch my own food. Okay, So you need to
Speaker 1: get yourself in waiters and rubber boots and hold up
Speaker 1: like a great white shark over your head and got
Speaker 1: like I'm fine, thank you. Also a lot of men
Speaker 1: on motorcycles because you know they're oh because they're bad boys.
Speaker 1: They're bad boys. I mean they you know, they can
Speaker 1: take you out on that road. It's the freedom thing.
Speaker 1: And during COVID, unsurprisingly, most of those men did not
Speaker 1: believe in wearing masks or that COVID was a thing.
Speaker 1: So it was a good way to eliminate themselves right
Speaker 1: right off the bat. Gotcha, gotcha? Okay, So with Raya.
Speaker 1: So it's all famous people. Isn't that kind of weird
Speaker 1: because you all kind of know who each other is.
Speaker 1: You can Google each other. You know, they could see
Speaker 1: you in a bikini and Daily Mail. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: all kind of out there. Yes, it feels a little naked,
Speaker 1: you know, well, because you're sort of dipping into the
Speaker 1: pool that you know. I mean, you some of those people.
Speaker 1: You know a lot of the people you know who
Speaker 1: they are. You assume they know you. But actually, weirdly,
Speaker 1: it's easier for a celebrity to be there rather than
Speaker 1: the what some of my girlfriends called the normals. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is not supposed to be demeaning in any way,
Speaker 1: but it says, you know, the guys that are just yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, Because it turns out that once you
Speaker 1: go on at a hinge date where you're not known
Speaker 1: as pulling up for a scova, but somebody has just
Speaker 1: you know, swiped on you. You had a little text threat.
Speaker 1: Oh you know, he seems cute. You set a date
Speaker 1: in a restaurant in January outside. Yeah. I was frostbitten
Speaker 1: on most of my dates. That's how desperate I was.
Speaker 1: I was willing to take the frostbite not to be
Speaker 1: alone protocol. Yeah, And so I would arrive into the
Speaker 1: place wrapped in my big, gigantic Normacmali sleeping back coat,
Speaker 1: which of course makes me look like a tutsie roll.
Speaker 1: And then I would proceed to under the heat lamps,
Speaker 1: take off my Russian fur hat and my mask, and
Speaker 1: the men would sit across a table and go heure Paulina.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, oh, he didn't know. Oh woh
Speaker 1: my god. It's like unwrapping a gift. And were they excited?
Speaker 1: They must have lost their mind. They kind of lost
Speaker 1: their minds. It's the problem. Yeah, they might have been excited,
Speaker 1: but then they weren't able to speak for the rest
Speaker 1: of the dinner. Yeah, I'm sure either. They weren't capable
Speaker 1: of speech. They got so intimidated, or they would just
Speaker 1: need to sort of equalize the tables, the balance between
Speaker 1: us by speaking exclusively about themselves. Oh god, that's sexy.
Speaker 1: But I would imagine that they were also they couldn't
Speaker 1: kind of couldn't believe their luck. And then my next
Speaker 1: question is if you go to bed with them, I mean,
Speaker 1: aren't you worried you could be going to bed with
Speaker 1: a stalker or somebody that had like your sports illustrated
Speaker 1: poster on their wall at some point? Sure, but that's
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, as desperate as I was, I
Speaker 1: wasn't going to bed them on the first night out.
Speaker 1: And I can assure you I feel you know, I'm
Speaker 1: very sex positive. If I really like somebody, you know,
Speaker 1: why not. But those kind of dates were most of
Speaker 1: them were a one time kind of a deal, like
Speaker 1: got it, we got dinner. Sometimes I even paid because
Speaker 1: I felt so sorry for it. Oh my god. I
Speaker 1: mean there's so many stories, and actually, you know what
Speaker 1: the cool thing about really bad dates is it makes
Speaker 1: great stories. Well, I have so many good stories. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think you have a third book in you. If
Speaker 1: I can just say, yeah, I just have to figure
Speaker 1: out how to be gentle to all those souls that
Speaker 1: I would let down or reveal in some way. You
Speaker 1: just change their names. Oh yeah, change their names and
Speaker 1: their physiques. Oh yeah, okay, all right, thanks Ali. I mean, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I've written about old boyfriends in my books, and you know,
Speaker 1: George had to read through them and make sure I
Speaker 1: couldn't get sued. He was like, I don't think you
Speaker 1: should call this person an alcoholic. It's very obvious who
Speaker 1: they are. Like, okay, I'll change it. There's a lot
Speaker 1: more to come after the short break and we're back. Okay.
Speaker 1: So COVID's kind of opened up a little bit. How's
Speaker 1: that dating change for you because people are less cautious
Speaker 1: and precious about it? Well, you know, so, I mean, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the way it happened for me is that when I
Speaker 1: was really desperate to date was to sort of get
Speaker 1: over my heartbreak and to just you know, feel affirmed
Speaker 1: as a woman and that I was still viable and
Speaker 1: that somebody would still want me. And so I was
Speaker 1: kind of rather desperate that first year during COVID the
Speaker 1: worst time. But actually that's the year that I also
Speaker 1: met Aaron Sorkin, and so that was a six month
Speaker 1: little thing which was lovely and was that that wasn't
Speaker 1: from a dating app though, that was not a dating app.
Speaker 1: That was Ashley Banfield actually who introduced us, and that
Speaker 1: was that was a really sweet six months. It was
Speaker 1: a really lovely time and that sort of got me
Speaker 1: over the feeling, you know, unwanted and undesirable because Aaron
Speaker 1: made me feel really good about myself. It's my vacation
Speaker 1: from heartbreak. Yeah, well, which is by the way, those
Speaker 1: people are really important in one's life. You know that
Speaker 1: the fact that I'm just assuming you guys are still friends,
Speaker 1: but that he came in at a time and you know,
Speaker 1: made you feel the way you should feel about yourself.
Speaker 1: And also just as a normal watching you know, I
Speaker 1: saw these pictures of you and him, and you know,
Speaker 1: you just you both looked amazing. You looked like, you know,
Speaker 1: missus Oscar in your gold dressed and you look genuinely happy.
Speaker 1: It looked like, oh, it looks like she's getting a
Speaker 1: little break here. Yeah, that's exactly what it was. I
Speaker 1: got a little break and it was restorative and it
Speaker 1: was lovely. So that sort of tied me over. And
Speaker 1: then after Aaron, I didn't feel so bad about myself,
Speaker 1: and so then I could be a little bit more selective. Ah, exactly. So,
Speaker 1: and then because the world was opening up, I didn't
Speaker 1: have to just rely on the dating apps. I could
Speaker 1: also go out to dinners and go to parties and
Speaker 1: see if i'd meet somebody there. And you know, I've
Speaker 1: met like one or two people just you know, from
Speaker 1: going out. Were people setting you up besides Aaron, where
Speaker 1: other people like I want to introduce you to my brother,
Speaker 1: to my friend. Nope, never got set up with anybody else. Actually,
Speaker 1: I just I just realized, too intimidating, I bet, well
Speaker 1: that's what Aaron said. Aaron said, I was intimidating. Well,
Speaker 1: just you're this whole package of amazing things. I would
Speaker 1: see why that would be intimidating, because I know when
Speaker 1: I was went on this blind date with George, George
Speaker 1: had been he basically dated the island of Manhattan and
Speaker 1: only the cream of the island of Manhattan. Oh no,
Speaker 1: don't make me name names. But he was, you know,
Speaker 1: telling me what dating was like and how you know,
Speaker 1: he had mostly only one dates, Like having a second
Speaker 1: date was like a big leap, and he was sort
Speaker 1: of taking me through this whole dating world. And he
Speaker 1: said at the time he was really open to be
Speaker 1: set up. He said, he told people set me up,
Speaker 1: set me up. And he said if he hadn't, he
Speaker 1: wouldn't have met me, because you know, and he was
Speaker 1: very famous at the time, and you know, he had
Speaker 1: to sort of alie. He kind of still is. He
Speaker 1: still is, but you know, he had to be careful.
Speaker 1: So the only way that he could do it was
Speaker 1: by being set up by somebody else. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: I needed that too. It's just that nobody has anybody
Speaker 1: to set up with women my age. It's like it's bonkers.
Speaker 1: Either people are happily married, which is great because you
Speaker 1: know those are the good ones, and they're friends that
Speaker 1: could be potential setups with you. Like my good girlfriends
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, now you don't want them. I'm like, okay.
Speaker 1: The pickings were pretty slim, I must say. But then
Speaker 1: last year I did a lot less dating because I
Speaker 1: was writing my book and then I was traveling a lot,
Speaker 1: and I was kind of getting my career and my
Speaker 1: life in order, and I didn't feel so shitty about myself,
Speaker 1: and so I didn't feel like I didn't really need
Speaker 1: the validation anymore. And it's amazing how much I grew
Speaker 1: up from the year before that, when I was desperate
Speaker 1: for the validation to last year when I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what, I think I'm pretty cool and one
Speaker 1: day somebody will think that too, and I'm kind of
Speaker 1: willing to wait. I'm not desperable. Well, I think I
Speaker 1: think that that comes from you going out and writing
Speaker 1: your book and sort of taking care of yourself, basically
Speaker 1: being in a love affair with yourself, because no man
Speaker 1: will give you that. That has to come from you.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because you know, yesterday I did the
Speaker 1: view and Joy Behart said to me, because it was
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day, she said, how come you didn't take George's
Speaker 1: last name? And I said, well, because I was sort
Speaker 1: of established and who I was. I don't mean like
Speaker 1: my brand, but you know, I was Ali Wentworth. I didn't.
Speaker 1: It didn't feel right to me at you know, thirty
Speaker 1: five to take his last name, which I thought it
Speaker 1: was such a kind of old fashioned question. But but
Speaker 1: the bigger meeting for me was listen. I had had
Speaker 1: a lot of relationships, I had had a depression, I
Speaker 1: had bought a house, I had finally then been alone
Speaker 1: own and really worked on myself so that I was
Speaker 1: able to be a good partner. You know, when I
Speaker 1: met George, and I think, I think for you, and
Speaker 1: from what I see, you seem to be in a
Speaker 1: much better place and getting stronger every day. And I
Speaker 1: think that's when the door opens and somebody comes in
Speaker 1: and you make the right choice as opposed to the
Speaker 1: guy who said you're crazy and you're old, which wasn't
Speaker 1: the right choice. You know how to pick them well,
Speaker 1: but it makes sense at that time in your life.
Speaker 1: You know whoever you bumped into that was going to
Speaker 1: give you a little attention. You know, it was like
Speaker 1: you were you were in the middle of a desert
Speaker 1: and you had no water, and somebody exactly. I mean,
Speaker 1: you remember this time because we spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time together, and you remember how very very unhappy I
Speaker 1: was in my marriage and how desperate and lonely I
Speaker 1: felt so like literally and I mean I even at
Speaker 1: one point said to my husband, I was like, I
Speaker 1: am so lonely and so desperate. My heart is so
Speaker 1: empty that literally anybody that wants to woo me will
Speaker 1: just get me. Like if the uber driver asks for
Speaker 1: for a date. I'll go out on a date with him.
Speaker 1: Anybody can enter my heart, including you. His response at
Speaker 1: that time was okay, I will woo you, and I thought, fantastic,
Speaker 1: I've gotten through to him. That was the last we
Speaker 1: ever spoke of it. And if his way of wooing
Speaker 1: me was by not paying any attention to me, then
Speaker 1: he did a great job. Do you ever regret not
Speaker 1: leaving him earlier? Do you feel like, oh, if I
Speaker 1: had left him and I was in my forties, I
Speaker 1: you know, maybe i'd be remarried now, or maybe i'd
Speaker 1: be here or there. I kind of did at times,
Speaker 1: and certainly after the whole will fiasco. Yeah, there there
Speaker 1: were moments where I regretted that I hadn't left earlier,
Speaker 1: But now, in red respect, I think, no, I'm glad
Speaker 1: that I stayed for as long as I did because
Speaker 1: I loved him very very much, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: exhaust every single possibility that we couldn't make it together.
Speaker 1: And I did. I mean I did, raping the bottom
Speaker 1: of that barrel. Yeah, and I knew there was like
Speaker 1: the at the point where I called it, there was
Speaker 1: nothing left. There was nowhere else to go, and I
Speaker 1: knew it, and so I feel like I can be
Speaker 1: at peace that I didn't you know that I didn't
Speaker 1: cut things to easily, that I wasn't you know that
Speaker 1: I that I was unreliable in some way, or that
Speaker 1: I could have done more. I could have done more,
Speaker 1: and you know that no, you couldn't have. And you
Speaker 1: can't even second guess yourself. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: You you the sponge was dry. You know there was
Speaker 1: nothing else to squeeze out of that. That is clear.
Speaker 1: And then, and for my listeners, when you bring up
Speaker 1: the will, I'm just going to quickly what that is
Speaker 1: is when her husband died, he cut Paulina out of
Speaker 1: his will and very publicly said that she abandoned him,
Speaker 1: which was not true. So that again is part of
Speaker 1: the horrible heartbreak and the things that she had to
Speaker 1: deal with them with after he died. So, yes, So
Speaker 1: a man comes along and is interested in you, and you,
Speaker 1: of course throw yourself into his arms, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, you want me, You get me? Yeah, yours, yeah,
Speaker 1: I get it. Any I mean, so many people relate
Speaker 1: to that, no matter how old you are, you know,
Speaker 1: And my next question is, so now you're stronger you.
Speaker 1: You know, you've really built some scaffolding around you. You
Speaker 1: have this amazing book, and you're going on dates. Please
Speaker 1: tell me what some of the things you're seeing when
Speaker 1: you date. You have told me one thing, which I
Speaker 1: think is hilarious and scary. But tell me some of
Speaker 1: the trends, as we'll call it, that you've seen dating
Speaker 1: men in your fifties. Well, a really big trend with
Speaker 1: men in their middle age that have been divorced or
Speaker 1: have been through relationships is And of course I always
Speaker 1: ask like, what went wrong in your relationship because I
Speaker 1: would like for them to be a little self aware
Speaker 1: perhaps you know and know what went wrong, so they're
Speaker 1: not going to do it again. Seventy five percent and
Speaker 1: I kid you not will sit down look at me
Speaker 1: and say, well, my wife has order personality disorder. Oh god,
Speaker 1: so the wife is crazy. The wife is crazy. I
Speaker 1: did everything I could and what you know, what could
Speaker 1: I do? I mean she was crazy? Wow? And then
Speaker 1: I would go so was she diagnosed with a borderline disorder?
Speaker 1: And they go, well, you know, my therapist said, he
Speaker 1: totally thought so. And then some will go well I
Speaker 1: read an article where you know, it sounded just like her. Well,
Speaker 1: your yoga teacher set that she totally has it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I can't. Not very many of those wives were actually
Speaker 1: diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. But men there are men
Speaker 1: had them diagnosed like this isn't that crazy? How? I mean,
Speaker 1: talk about how unself aware and blaming and oh they're horrible.
Speaker 1: So I mean, you must leave immediately at seventy five
Speaker 1: percent of the dating pool, which is already tiny because
Speaker 1: men my age will mostly try to date women ten
Speaker 1: or twenty years younger. So the ones that are in
Speaker 1: their fifties or sixties, you know already there's not that
Speaker 1: many of them that are willing to date an older woman,
Speaker 1: it seems. And then so you go into a restaurant
Speaker 1: you get to this part, and from most of the
Speaker 1: dates I've been on, I would just they would say it,
Speaker 1: and I would just go okay, And now I'm just
Speaker 1: going to have to do deep breathing until check arrives
Speaker 1: and then I'm out of here. But I'm very proud
Speaker 1: of myself because the last time this happened, this was
Speaker 1: like right after our cocktails arrived, guy told me his
Speaker 1: wife had border personality disorder, and I just stood up
Speaker 1: and I said, thank you. I hope you find a
Speaker 1: sane woman. You managed to find a sane woman. Goodbye,
Speaker 1: And I just walked out. Good for you. Yes, And
Speaker 1: they don't they don't ever mix it up and say
Speaker 1: like bipolar or schizophrenia. They stay with borderline personality disorder.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of borderline personality disorder because I think
Speaker 1: it's the hardest one to diagnose. Okay, that makes sense,
Speaker 1: and also the one that's technically incurable because you can't
Speaker 1: really drug it. And you know, so there's been a
Speaker 1: couple of you know, I expect my wife is bipolar,
Speaker 1: but no, it's like borderline personality disorder is like the
Speaker 1: catch all. Like every man that doesn't want to take
Speaker 1: responsibility for his shit has an insane wife who can't
Speaker 1: be properly diagnosed or medicated. That is terrifying. Also, by
Speaker 1: the way, it's not a borderline personality disorder. She's crying
Speaker 1: all the time because she's miserable in this exactly, it's
Speaker 1: not a psychosy. She's angry because you you know, you
Speaker 1: didn't bring food home when she asked you. When she's
Speaker 1: like beleaguered by the children and she needs some help Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: you're like you know, in your men k playing video games.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what it is exactly, but watching porn. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, and it's time for a short break. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to go ask Alli. So when you look at
Speaker 1: like Jerry Hall who married Rupert Murdoch, do you go
Speaker 1: oh uh, I guess at a girl? I get it?
Speaker 1: Or do you go, oh my god, Jerry, come on
Speaker 1: now passing zero judgments because after my experiences in the
Speaker 1: dating poll Rupert murdochistan, don't you look pretty good? Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so let's let's let's I'm gonna try a different approach.
Speaker 1: What to you right now? If you had to fill
Speaker 1: out a form, Paulina, really, what are you looking for? What?
Speaker 1: At your age, at your point in your life, what
Speaker 1: seems desirable to you? So and it's actually much less
Speaker 1: complicated than it seems. I just made a post on
Speaker 1: Instagram the other day about I was using this little
Speaker 1: bit from this book by Neil Stevenson where he's talking
Speaker 1: about a fictional Queen of Netherlands who is a small
Speaker 1: plane pilot and she is now she has been widowed,
Speaker 1: and she's now evaluating men through a completely different lens
Speaker 1: and when she was a teenager or when you know
Speaker 1: again like a cool haircut was enough to get you
Speaker 1: into bed with him. So now she's sort of you know,
Speaker 1: she has higher standards, and so she's starting to evaluate
Speaker 1: men through the lens of a small plane pilot, which
Speaker 1: would be the lift and drag ratio of a wing.
Speaker 1: So the drag, you know, being for example, a very
Speaker 1: high drag would be he's married, that's a that's a problem.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of big drag, right. Low drag would be, hey,
Speaker 1: he's available, he's got money, there's like, there's no big
Speaker 1: problems in the way. And then lift, how big is
Speaker 1: the lift? You know, is it a low lift you're
Speaker 1: not really that excited about him. Is it a medium
Speaker 1: lift where you're like, oh, you know, maybe something can
Speaker 1: grow out of this. Or is it a high lift
Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, butterflies, this guy's hot. So I
Speaker 1: would like a medium drag high lift. Those are those
Speaker 1: are the T shirts you should be selling when I
Speaker 1: go to business one. Making yes and for you, a
Speaker 1: sense of humor, like you said earlier, is really important
Speaker 1: to you. Okay, So if we're and then if we're
Speaker 1: talking like really if we're really talking about what does
Speaker 1: Paulina really want? Yeah, we're really talking about that. What
Speaker 1: gives me the high lift? Yeah, what gives me the
Speaker 1: high lift is being really smart. They have to be
Speaker 1: intellectually curious. I think that's you know, that's the the
Speaker 1: number one intellectually curious. They have to be funny. If
Speaker 1: they're not funny, I will wilt at some point and
Speaker 1: just kind of getting disinterested. I do find a man
Speaker 1: with a talent extremely sexy. I find talent so much
Speaker 1: hotter than looks. So if he if he's got talent,
Speaker 1: he's hot to me. And when you say talent, like
Speaker 1: in any arena, Yes, but he's got to be really
Speaker 1: really good at it. Oh, Which doesn't mean that he's
Speaker 1: got to be the number one premier potter in you know,
Speaker 1: the universe, but it means yeah, I mean it's not
Speaker 1: somebody who's like, you know, making like ashtrays, Yeah, as
Speaker 1: a hobby after they come home. No, that that doesn't
Speaker 1: exactly he's got a show in a gallery, I get it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Or he's a fantastic chef or you know whatever. It
Speaker 1: doesn't like what they're really talented at is not that
Speaker 1: important although I do find myself over and over drawn
Speaker 1: to writers, I do like them writers. And of course
Speaker 1: I can't remember was it you who said that your
Speaker 1: shrink said never date somebody who's a comedian or a writer,
Speaker 1: that that's like the the bottom of the poll of satisfaction.
Speaker 1: It wasn't me, because I wasn't dated a lot of comedians.
Speaker 1: Well and see, and then you didn't marry them. Now, no,
Speaker 1: but if George had taken that advice, you wouldn't be
Speaker 1: with me. So yeah, I think it works differently for women. Yeah, anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's unfortunately kind of what I keep being attracted to.
Speaker 1: But self awareness is a must, like serious self aware
Speaker 1: us and a desire to explore the world. And again
Speaker 1: that kind of goes back to being intellectually curious. So
Speaker 1: that's it, right, It's not that much. It's not that
Speaker 1: much that I ask for medium drag. I'll even accept
Speaker 1: medium drag high lift. Yeah, and would you say you're
Speaker 1: pretty optimistic now? I would say that I seriously, honestly,
Speaker 1: And I don't even know why. Maybe it was a
Speaker 1: good horoscope that day. I woke up on January first
Speaker 1: this year and I went, it's gonna happen. It's gonna
Speaker 1: happen now this spring. I feel it, and meaning what's
Speaker 1: gonna happen is like I'm ready. I think the person
Speaker 1: that I need to meet is coming into my life.
Speaker 1: I can feel it. Wow, that's fantastic, that's exciting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I told everybody, I told my therapist. I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like it's my time. I
Speaker 1: feel like this is it. And so well, spring Awakening,
Speaker 1: Spring Awakening. I'm excited to see what happens with Paulina. Well,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to go out to dinner with them.
Speaker 1: I can't. Well, he's got he's got to pass my test.
Speaker 1: But and I'm glad I'm not dating right now because
Speaker 1: it seems really daunting to me. Okay, so this is
Speaker 1: like my take on what it's like to date. This
Speaker 1: is like my little metaphor for dating in middle age.
Speaker 1: It's a breakfast buffet in a hotel towards the very end,
Speaker 1: you know, the breakfast buffet closes at eleven and they
Speaker 1: let in the middle aged women at like ten forty five.
Speaker 1: So the eggs are cold, the sausages are limp, all
Speaker 1: the good stuff is gone. And I thought you know,
Speaker 1: the good for you stuff people don't touch because it's
Speaker 1: not as shiny, and it's not as obvious, and it's
Speaker 1: not as upfront like the brand muffins. Right, you know,
Speaker 1: they're stuck away on the sides, and people are like
Speaker 1: brand muffin, they leave them. I'm totally up for a
Speaker 1: brand muffin. I'm looking for a brand muffin. I love that.
Speaker 1: That is a great metaphor. Thank you. That is a
Speaker 1: great metaphor. All right, all right, So in my podcast,
Speaker 1: I just bombarded you with a million questions. But now
Speaker 1: you can ask me a question about anything. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: we're talking about men, and we were talking about dating,
Speaker 1: and yeah, you have been married for like a hundred years.
Speaker 1: But I used to be married for a hundred years too,
Speaker 1: so you were So here's my question, in case that
Speaker 1: person is coming into my life sometime soon, how do
Speaker 1: you keep up the interest for sex in a long
Speaker 1: term relationship. I think that the interest comes with what
Speaker 1: you were saying before that if you have such off
Speaker 1: for them, if they have a talent that is so
Speaker 1: incredible that that turns you on. You know, George's brain
Speaker 1: turns me on so smart. I mean, for some people,
Speaker 1: maybe it's a scruffy beard or a swagger. For me.
Speaker 1: You know, he starts explaining the GOP in this next term,
Speaker 1: and it's like where I ripped my clothes off. So
Speaker 1: for you, it's the same. It's like the respect for
Speaker 1: your men. Yes, yes, and it's not you know, it's
Speaker 1: not a necessarily a physical thing. Although I'm very attracted
Speaker 1: to him. It's a it's it's bigger than that, and
Speaker 1: it's sort of ethereal, And it's like the person that
Speaker 1: he is I have such respect for, and I'm in
Speaker 1: such awe of that that keeps it going, you know.
Speaker 1: I listen. I think if when people you know, connect
Speaker 1: because they're hot for them because like oh their body
Speaker 1: or their this, or that, it does not sustain itself.
Speaker 1: I've talked to a lot of beautiful people that have
Speaker 1: told me that it doesn't sustain itself, so it has
Speaker 1: to be the other stuff, you know. And I also
Speaker 1: think we're different enough people like for you, I hope
Speaker 1: that this person that's coming into my life tiptoeing through
Speaker 1: the Toolip Simpto is gonna be different enough so that
Speaker 1: you will both sort of enjoy the original people that
Speaker 1: you both are you know what I mean? You don't
Speaker 1: want same same I mean across the board, I don't think.
Speaker 1: I hope not, because I would make me a complete
Speaker 1: and utter narcissist right to just like, no, can you
Speaker 1: just spit out another me so I can fall in
Speaker 1: love with it. That would not bode well for me
Speaker 1: or for anybody. I think. I think that same same
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily translate into a long term relationship. I think
Speaker 1: I think it's so fascinating, though, I hope for you
Speaker 1: it's somebody that makes you laugh really hard, because you
Speaker 1: love to laugh and you're very funny. So I think
Speaker 1: that's why I'm your friend, Yeah, because you make me laugh,
Speaker 1: but yours you like George, you're such a your great audience.
Speaker 1: Also you have, of course your moments of being hilariously funny.
Speaker 1: But there's something about making somebody laugh that is such
Speaker 1: an aphrodisiact from on both sides, I totally agree. I'm
Speaker 1: still actually kind of taking in your response about finding
Speaker 1: George really hot, like being sexually inspired by by him
Speaker 1: knowing something that you don't, by being like you know,
Speaker 1: there's like a it's like a challenging aspect almost. It's
Speaker 1: like being able to look up to somebody a little
Speaker 1: bit and respect, respect being that really, really big thing.
Speaker 1: And in my marriage, I lost respect from my husband
Speaker 1: a fair you know, long before we separated. And I
Speaker 1: think the dude that I fell in love with after,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure they ever had respect for him and
Speaker 1: didn't even know that that was a problem. Now I do. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because when you lose respect, there's there's nothing left. You
Speaker 1: don't want to have sex. There's contempt. Well, yes, there's
Speaker 1: only something left. There's contempt. Contempt is fun to live in. Yeah, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: oh Pee, thank you, You're very welcome. Thank you for
Speaker 1: sharing this journey. It's interesting for me anyway, and I
Speaker 1: know for my listeners that are predominantly women to think
Speaker 1: or to be dating at our age and it's got
Speaker 1: to be a slippery slope. But again, I think the
Speaker 1: biggest takeaway from this conversation is when you found yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, when you wrote your book, when you felt
Speaker 1: steady on your own two legs. Is when you really
Speaker 1: can invite people in that are worthy of your of
Speaker 1: your partnership, that is perfectly set. Because it's when I
Speaker 1: stopped needing the validation that I was still worthy, and
Speaker 1: I found that worth in myself. And it sounds so cliches, allie,
Speaker 1: I kind of I sort of hate the way it sounds,
Speaker 1: but it's nevertheless the truth. It's the true. And sometimes
Speaker 1: cliches or cliches because they're the truth and they've been
Speaker 1: said over and over. I love cliches. Yeah, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: they're the most true things. Yeah. I find myself now
Speaker 1: saying what used to people used to always say to
Speaker 1: me when my kids were little. They'd say, oh, it
Speaker 1: happened so fast, they grow up so fast. And I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, shut up, like you know, trying to
Speaker 1: mix formula. And now I find myself saying that to
Speaker 1: other people who have little kids. Oh it goes by
Speaker 1: so fast. But it's true. It's these are cliches that
Speaker 1: are true, the time tested, time worn, time proven, and
Speaker 1: yes it's the truth. Yea. Yeah, So find your worth
Speaker 1: and then go dating, and then stand up at any
Speaker 1: table where a wife ex wife is diagnosed with any
Speaker 1: sort of mental disease. Yes, stay away from that fish.
Speaker 1: Yes that's my advice. Oh god, so much. Takeaway. Thank you, Paulina.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Ali Fuddy. I think Paulina personifies somebody who
Speaker 1: has taken care of herself inside and out and has
Speaker 1: made herself a priority, and look at all the wisdom
Speaker 1: and growth, and my God, she is more beautiful than ever.
Speaker 1: And the last thing is if you happen to be
Speaker 1: single and you go on a date with somebody who
Speaker 1: says his marriage fell about because the woman had a
Speaker 1: borderline personality disorder, take a clue from Paulina Portskova and
Speaker 1: get up and walk out. We also have a listener question.
Speaker 1: Our listener asked, I'm really interested in Ali's menopause group
Speaker 1: that she mentioned on the February ninth episode. I'd love
Speaker 1: to start one and model it after hers. Do you
Speaker 1: have any more information? Here's the It is really a
Speaker 1: therapy group, but we call it a menopause group because
Speaker 1: basically the therapy is needed because of the menopausal symptoms.
Speaker 1: This is what you do. You get a small group
Speaker 1: of women together who are also going through menopause, and
Speaker 1: you meet once a month at somebody's house. You can
Speaker 1: change it every month, and basically you sit around and
Speaker 1: you have wine or ice tea or ice cream, whatever
Speaker 1: it is, and you bitch about menopause, and you talk
Speaker 1: about symptoms and you talk about heat flashes and whatever
Speaker 1: hormonal cream you're using. You know, obviously it gets into
Speaker 1: marriages and kids and mortality, but you know it starts
Speaker 1: with menopause. For more info and what you've heard in
Speaker 1: this episode, check out our show notes. Be sure to subscribe,
Speaker 1: rate and review, go us Galley, and follow me on
Speaker 1: social media on Instagram at the Real Ali Wentworth Now.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to ask me a question or suggest
Speaker 1: a guest or topic to dig into, I would love
Speaker 1: to hear from you, and there's a bunch of ways
Speaker 1: you can do it. You can call or text to
Speaker 1: me at three two three three six four six three
Speaker 1: five six, or you can email a voice memo right
Speaker 1: from your phone to Go Ask Gali podcast at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. And if you leave a question, you just
Speaker 1: might hear it. I'm go Ask Gali. Go Ask Gali
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