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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day

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Speaker 1: we're bringing you the latest news from the worlds of

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Speaker 1: business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on

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Speaker 1: in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing

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Speaker 1: the power of Business Week reporters and editors. You can

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Speaker 1: download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com.

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Speaker 1: If you can also listen to our radio show at

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Speaker 1: two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be sure to

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Speaker 1: watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News

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Speaker 1: New York City with checkpoints around the Thanksgiving holiday. We've

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Speaker 1: also heard the World Health Organization come out and say

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Speaker 1: that people will probably have to take precautions against COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteam for the next year as countries continue to vaccinate

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Speaker 1: and UH and and actually needs some time to vaccinate

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Speaker 1: their population. So just some of our headlines on this Tuesday.

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Speaker 1: Let's bring in though, with an interesting perspective on really

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Speaker 1: our whole wellness situation, if you will, against the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Let's bring in Dr Rachel Do. She's Board certified doctor

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Speaker 1: of Natural Medicine and she's also the CEO of Moody house,

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Speaker 1: she joins us on the phone in Los Angeles. Dr Do,

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Speaker 1: nice to have you here with us UM. How are

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Speaker 1: you What is your world been like on the West

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Speaker 1: Coast and and and especially with just some of your patients. Hi, Carol, Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me on UM. It

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Speaker 1: has certainly been UM an interesting season, right, So we

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Speaker 1: are all having to make so many adjustments and transitions,

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Speaker 1: not just in how we care for patients, but also

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Speaker 1: how we care for ourselves in this time. So we're

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of those adjustments and the needs to

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Speaker 1: be more flexible and to really take personal accountability. What

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Speaker 1: does that mean? They'll break it down. So if I'm

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Speaker 1: a patient, I'm listening to that, I'm sitting at home

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Speaker 1: and I've got stresses of working, I've got stresses of

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Speaker 1: taking care of my family. What are you telling me? Absolutely? So, Look,

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Speaker 1: you know this pandemic, we have the concerns around catching

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, we have that, but also the pandemic has

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Speaker 1: really caused an uptick in many other health crisis right

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Speaker 1: from mental health and emotional health to physical health, everything

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Speaker 1: from injuries, illness, and chronic disease. And you know this

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Speaker 1: is really due to patients avoiding in person care due

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Speaker 1: to safety concerns and putting off treatments and things like that. Right,

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Speaker 1: So tele medicine has been providing a solution to meet

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Speaker 1: these concerns, and now Telly Care is really easier and

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Speaker 1: safer to access in order to get that continued care. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing this as a major shift that that we've taken,

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Speaker 1: we've needed to take in order to care for ourselves

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Speaker 1: and also practitioners needing to care for their patients. But

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Speaker 1: what we also see is that the need is greater

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Speaker 1: now more than ever for a whole person care approach,

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Speaker 1: really an integrative approach, and that really includes not only

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Speaker 1: traditional health care prevention, but also well being. Well We're said,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to be quite honest with you, You're

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Speaker 1: you're preaching to the choir, because I'm someone who certainly

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Speaker 1: believes in kind of that holistic approach when it comes

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Speaker 1: to health care, having done yoga for years and you know,

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Speaker 1: believe in meditation and things like that, that you really

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Speaker 1: do need to take care of your whole being. It's

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Speaker 1: just not physically, you know, it's not just about physical ailments,

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Speaker 1: but it's also about mental well being, And I do wonder,

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Speaker 1: you know, is there something about this time of crisis

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Speaker 1: and it's conversations that I've had to be quite honest

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Speaker 1: with a bunch of my guests about are we looking at,

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Speaker 1: you know, our health very differently. Will we come out

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Speaker 1: of it being smarter in terms of preventive health and

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Speaker 1: and thinking about kind of holistic care when it comes

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Speaker 1: to our well being? Absolutely, and I think that that's

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Speaker 1: one of the positive set's coming out of this pandemic

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing. So at Moldi Health, we're the only

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Speaker 1: hell of medicine and hell a wellness integrated platform in industry.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean because there's lots of tele medicine

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Speaker 1: out there. We've been talking about We just off with

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Speaker 1: Susan Lan yesterday. She's a venture capitalist saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things that all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: it has just taken off. So tell me about what

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Speaker 1: that means that integrative platform. Sure. Absolutely so. While there

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Speaker 1: are many telemedicine platforms out there, and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of wellness platforms out there, like health clubs are moving

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Speaker 1: classes and yoga as you mentioned, are moving classes online,

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Speaker 1: there's really no marriage between the two of this holistic

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Speaker 1: care and traditional care. So Moody Health on our integrative platform,

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Speaker 1: we offer access to virtual care with both traditional medical

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Speaker 1: practitioners as well as complementary, alternative and natural and then

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Speaker 1: also wellness things like mental health practitioners, life coaches, fitness instructor, nutritionists,

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Speaker 1: all of those different types of needs under one virtual

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Speaker 1: roof to be accessed. And I think that that's what's

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Speaker 1: critical right now and we're seeing at Moody Health so

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Speaker 1: many people are focusing on wellness and prevention through a

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Speaker 1: more fulistic approach or a whole person approach to help.

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Speaker 1: And so people that are coming to our platform are

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Speaker 1: really concerned about being as healthy and also as resilient

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Speaker 1: as possible. Well well, who, well, who is your demo?

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Speaker 1: Who comes to your platform? Every person you can possibly imagine.

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Speaker 1: So we have, you know, all different types of care

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Speaker 1: available for people that are younger demographic millennials, we have

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Speaker 1: baby boomers and everything in between. Really, the pandemic has

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Speaker 1: created this massive need to shift and begin using online

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Speaker 1: platforms to access care. So it's really invited people that

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Speaker 1: may not have considered doing that type of care before. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's really invited them into using and experiencing the ease

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Speaker 1: and safety of telecare. UM, I totally get what you

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Speaker 1: guys are doing, and I do think when it comes

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Speaker 1: to health care, we do need to think about kind

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Speaker 1: of top to bottom, you know, all the layers that

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Speaker 1: make up a person's well being, right, And there's different

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Speaker 1: forms of treatment. There's certainly, you know, traditional medicine, there's

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Speaker 1: you know, evolving medicine. There's just different things that are

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Speaker 1: out there, and you really do feel like it's maybe

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Speaker 1: not one person but multiple people who really have to

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Speaker 1: look at someone and say, Okay, here's here's the here's

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Speaker 1: the full picture, right, and here's the different things you

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Speaker 1: can be doing. Having said that, I do feel like

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Speaker 1: kind of newer waves of thinking or newer ways of

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Speaker 1: thinking when it comes to healthcare. Your traditional insurance companies

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Speaker 1: aren't so great to embrace it, at least not so quickly.

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Speaker 1: So where are we on that? Absolutely? I am so

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Speaker 1: glad that you brought this up. It's it's something that

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Speaker 1: I'm hugely passionate about. So we have a unique approach

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Speaker 1: at multi Health since we are founded by practitioners and

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Speaker 1: we really believe that patient care needs to shift. The

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Speaker 1: patient care should be dictated by doctors, not health insurance companies.

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Speaker 1: And right now, most holistic or alternative care, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: is out of talkt which not only limits access, but

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Speaker 1: it really restricts access to those who are unable to

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Speaker 1: afford that kind of care out of talket. So at

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Speaker 1: Motive Health we've addressed that by making consolts more affordable.

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Speaker 1: But as we're shifting and as we are seeing this

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Speaker 1: whole person care approach, and we're seeing so much more

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Speaker 1: research and data that is pointing to the future of health,

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Speaker 1: including that type of full person care. With the future

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Speaker 1: of health insurance reimbursements, there's a huge market demand and

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Speaker 1: that's only going to continue to grow. So insurance companies

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Speaker 1: will eventually need to address this by increasing wellness care

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Speaker 1: and complementary and alternative care coverage and also reimbursement. So

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Speaker 1: we need to shift the focus on people, keeping people

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Speaker 1: well versus just treating health crises and problems once they arrive.

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Speaker 1: So how do we do that? I mean, if anything,

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Speaker 1: the pandemic has an earth uh and laid bare once

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Speaker 1: again is the inequities that are out there right and

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Speaker 1: it's it's easy, maybe for some of us to say, okay,

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Speaker 1: I can focus on well care, right, Uh, wellness care

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Speaker 1: because I've got the time, I've got employers who understand

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Speaker 1: I've got a great health care plan. There are those

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Speaker 1: folks who are just trying to you know, pay the

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Speaker 1: rent and keep food on their table for their families,

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Speaker 1: and you know, health care is often a emergency situation,

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Speaker 1: if you will, and that's really important if we're going

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Speaker 1: to raise the wellness of society. So how do we

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Speaker 1: deal with that which is so important? Right? I mean,

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Speaker 1: we keep doing things that you know, people who are

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Speaker 1: already in a good place get to kind of top into.

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Speaker 1: But it's if we're gonna if we're gonna learn anything

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Speaker 1: from this past year, right, is figuring it out how

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Speaker 1: more people get to benefit from the successes of society.

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Speaker 1: I completely agree with you. It's such a critical point.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're really seeing this shift when it comes

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Speaker 1: to wellness and preventative and alternative care. We're seeing that

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Speaker 1: it's becoming only accessible by the wealthy. So it's becoming,

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Speaker 1: you know, a social level of achievement to be able

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Speaker 1: to access. But we've got to make this type of

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Speaker 1: not only care, but life healthy lifestyle choices and options

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Speaker 1: more affordable and accessible to the masses, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's something we're really passionate about and we

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Speaker 1: worked really hard to a motive health to do, you know,

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Speaker 1: not only by making you know, consoles more affordable to

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Speaker 1: live virtual care, but we've we've come up with some

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Speaker 1: creative solutions and really it's going to take all of

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Speaker 1: us doing you know, putting our minds towards creative we're

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Speaker 1: solving this problem. So you know, what we've done is

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Speaker 1: we've created a health streaming service. So where someone might

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Speaker 1: not be able to afford meeting with a nutritionist or

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Speaker 1: a personal trainer or a health coach for example, um,

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Speaker 1: they might be able to afford a nine dollar you know,

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Speaker 1: a month virtual streaming service that gives them access to

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Speaker 1: all different types of health and wellness classes and health

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Speaker 1: education and fitness classes. So it's really about getting creative

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Speaker 1: in order to solve this, right, which is what it's

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Speaker 1: going to take. You know. It's interesting the Bloomberg New

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Speaker 1: Economy Forum was just held virtually with global leaders and

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Speaker 1: one of the verticals, one of the pillars, is all

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Speaker 1: about health and this whole concept of you know, how

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Speaker 1: do we learn from what happened this year in terms

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Speaker 1: of the virus, But more importantly too, is how do

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Speaker 1: we fix some of those elements, whether it's heart disease,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a lung disease, whether it's cancer that you

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Speaker 1: know certainly has an impact on people generally, but also

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Speaker 1: holds back society from being even more prosperous uh than

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Speaker 1: it could be. So um, these are good conversations to have,

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Speaker 1: Dr Do. Thank you so much, UM, good luck and

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Speaker 1: want to you know, we'd love to hear back from

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Speaker 1: you as you guys can continue to proceed with what

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Speaker 1: you're doing. Dr Rachel Do she is Board certified doctor

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Speaker 1: of Natural Medicine. She is CEO of Moldy Health. Joining

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Speaker 1: us on this Tuesday on the phone from Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: Safe to say, there are many heroes that have stepped

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Speaker 1: up during this global health pandemic, and that includes this

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Speaker 1: really cool story about a small army of data gathering

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Speaker 1: gatherers and most of them are volunteers and they have

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Speaker 1: become perhaps the most trusted source on how the pandemic

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Speaker 1: is unfolding in the US. Let's get into this story

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Speaker 1: with Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Webber. He's on the

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Speaker 1: phone in Brooklyn along with Bloomberg News US Healthcare team

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Speaker 1: leader Drew Armstrong, reporting once again for a Business Week

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Speaker 1: Drew with another incredible story, Joel. Yeah, we like to

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Speaker 1: keep Drew busy. I hope to have many more Drew

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Speaker 1: Armstrong stories in our future. Um. This is one that um,

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Speaker 1: he came to us with and and as we started

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Speaker 1: talking about it, I was like, Wow, this is actually

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Speaker 1: just a great story for the moment because these are

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Speaker 1: basically data heroes, UM. And we're talking about the people

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Speaker 1: behind the COVID tracking project. And at the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the year, we didn't have any data about how many

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Speaker 1: cases there were, and you would have expected the federal

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Speaker 1: government to fill that void, and federal government still not there,

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Speaker 1: and these folks have just kind of kept it going. UM.

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Speaker 1: So Drew, tell us more about who they are, what

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Speaker 1: they do, and and you know, I want to know

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Speaker 1: more because you also did some of this data entry yourself. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was a fascinating story to work on,

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Speaker 1: in part because I think that it really revealed some

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Speaker 1: of the weaknesses with this country. UM. And and its

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Speaker 1: ability to react to an unknown crisis. You look at

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Speaker 1: disease agencies like the CDC, which I have to say

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Speaker 1: are full of very kind, very smart people trying very

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Speaker 1: very hard, but when they were confronted with this kind

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Speaker 1: of new, unknown disease, it showed us how bad we

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Speaker 1: actually were at being able to find out what was

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Speaker 1: going on in the country. And this project was basically

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Speaker 1: an effort to try and answer the question of how

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Speaker 1: hard are we looking for covid um and this was

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Speaker 1: back in early March, and how much of it are

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Speaker 1: we finding? And what they began to discover as they

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Speaker 1: did the really gritty work of just calling around states

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Speaker 1: and scraping state websites and pulling data from states is

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Speaker 1: that we weren't looking for it nearly as hard as

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Speaker 1: we thought we were, and we didn't really have a

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Speaker 1: great grip on how big the outbreak was or wasn't um.

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Speaker 1: It's then evolved into this thing which is a very authoritative,

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Speaker 1: authoritative source of statistics on how covid is spreading, where

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Speaker 1: hospitals are, what's the death count of and things like that.

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Speaker 1: But at the start, it was just fundamentally about asking,

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Speaker 1: you know, what's going on and are and are we

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Speaker 1: finding as much of the stuff is actually there? Well,

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Speaker 1: drewe I gotta say, as we all kind of pat

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Speaker 1: ourselves on our back, you know, enter a couple of

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Speaker 1: journalists and then a really other smart investor. Basically, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, the one thing I will say with these

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Speaker 1: folks UM, and you mentioned there's there's a handful of

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Speaker 1: journalists Alexis Madrigal and Robinson Myra for The Atlantic, who

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Speaker 1: are kind of started a version of this. UM. One

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Speaker 1: of Alexis is college friends with this guy, Jeff Hammerbockers

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Speaker 1: actually started the data team at Facebook, and they teamed

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Speaker 1: up with UM, a woman named Aaron Cassine who essentially

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Speaker 1: is a you know, her job title kind of defies description,

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Speaker 1: but she builds communities and works with tech tools and journalism.

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Speaker 1: And what they eventually pulled together was a a kind

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Speaker 1: of a basically just a Google sheet to go and

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Speaker 1: start answering these questions and cataloging these data. But it

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Speaker 1: took this really unique combination of curious journalists, UM, some

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Speaker 1: serious data and numbers talent, and somebody who could help

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Speaker 1: build the communities they had. And the community is something

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Speaker 1: that they emphasized over and over again. This thing is

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Speaker 1: powered by volunteers, people who show up into their black room,

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Speaker 1: the only place this organization exists, and do the hard

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Speaker 1: work of going to state websites and pulling this data

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Speaker 1: every single day. And it's just a lot of work

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Speaker 1: to be able to pull this together. But they've been

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Speaker 1: doing it for nine months. Um. It's amazing that they

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Speaker 1: built this kind of volunteer powered engine to do this

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Speaker 1: stuff that's basically data gathering, day in, day out, UM,

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Speaker 1: to better understand this pandemic and bring some sense to it. Andrew,

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Speaker 1: you raised your hand to actually help enter some data.

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Speaker 1: How did that go? You know? This was wonderful of them.

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Speaker 1: They really trusted me, and they said, we want you

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Speaker 1: to understand, you know, both what we do, how we

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Speaker 1: do it, and alter the culture that is behind this

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Speaker 1: whole thing in the volunteer effort. So they invited me

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Speaker 1: into their slack. They put me through a data gathering

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Speaker 1: training that they did that everybody else. I was on

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Speaker 1: a zoom call with lots of other people around America,

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Speaker 1: you know, seeing everybody's living room behind their computer camera,

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Speaker 1: just like I was. They taught me how to go

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Speaker 1: through their process and I worked a data gathering shift,

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Speaker 1: um you know, entering everything from the hospitalization data in Maine, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, to what was going on to some other states.

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Speaker 1: One of the things you realize when you do this

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Speaker 1: work is just how just pointed that David gathering system

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Speaker 1: is some states have wonderful portals that has you know,

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Speaker 1: updated every day. The definitions of what counts as a test,

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Speaker 1: as a positive, go, and so forth are very clear.

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Speaker 1: Others are not at all. I mean Hawaii, when I

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Speaker 1: was doing this, the place you had to go to

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Speaker 1: get the number of hospitalizations in the state was the

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Speaker 1: tenant governor's Instagram account, which, when you think about a

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Speaker 1: country and that's been singing like that is not where

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Speaker 1: you should be getting this type of public health data.

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Speaker 1: So do I also, let's just stay on the data

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Speaker 1: for a second, because I think one of the things

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Speaker 1: that they've also sort of done that you you kind

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Speaker 1: of talk about in the story is that they've actually

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Speaker 1: sort of effectively helps standardize what the data is even.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk more about about that element of the

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Speaker 1: story and the effort. Yeah, you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that is really really really important that I think

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Speaker 1: is hard to appreciate until you've tried to make sense

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Speaker 1: of medical data, is that it's vitally important that you

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Speaker 1: have kind of standard definitions for what stuff is, so

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Speaker 1: that a, you know, a test means a certain kind

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Speaker 1: of test, or do you separate out the different types

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Speaker 1: of COVID tests to get run into different categories. And

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Speaker 1: they ran across this problem of you know, states didn't

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Speaker 1: all report the same information. Sometimes they were report things

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Speaker 1: that seemed like they were similar, but in fact we're not.

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Speaker 1: They started to give states great letter grades, basically say okay,

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Speaker 1: this state gets a plus for the type of data

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Speaker 1: of courts. This when gets a D. And the reason

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Speaker 1: for that was they had someone on their advisory board

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Speaker 1: would work in government who said, I know this seems stupid,

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Speaker 1: but government officials really love grades. And you know, when

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Speaker 1: they started giving out these letter grades, one of the

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Speaker 1: things they saw was that the states they're done well.

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Speaker 1: They had public health officials and the governors out there saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: we got an A plus. They gave us an A plus.

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Speaker 1: This prominent website that everybody's looking at. Things were really great.

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Speaker 1: And they began to see other states make efforts to

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Speaker 1: get more transparent, to get better about standardizing their data,

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Speaker 1: their data. They have helped kind of push along the

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Speaker 1: quality of the data to better understand this. Listen, there's

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Speaker 1: many good moving parts in this story. I love where

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Speaker 1: you say the project demonstrate is a demonstration excuse me,

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Speaker 1: a citizen know how and civic dedication at a time

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Speaker 1: when the country feels like it's being pulled apart, right, So,

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Speaker 1: when all else fails and you feel like things aren't

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Speaker 1: working like you see the community come together and we

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Speaker 1: understood that the importance of community, especially when it came

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Speaker 1: to COVID, how important it was, and to see them

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Speaker 1: come together on the COVID tracking project is pretty remarkable

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Speaker 1: and really makes you feel good ahead of this Thanksgiving

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Speaker 1: Day holiday. Um, Drew, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: We'll put this story out on Twitter for everybody. Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business Week editor Joel Webber along with Bloomberg News US

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Speaker 1: Healthcare Team leader Drew Armstrong read everything that Drew puts

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Speaker 1: out at Bloomberg dot com. You're listening to Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: Week with Carol Messer on Bloomberg Radio. All right, So

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Speaker 1: that's caught our attention. It's among the most read stories

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Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg gets a top story on this Tuesday

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Speaker 1: about how Amazon is doling out hiring bonuses as high

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Speaker 1: as three thousand dollars. It's all about making sure it

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Speaker 1: has enough people to get through the busy holiday shopping season.

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Speaker 1: So everyone's happy, right, Not so fast, Let's get more

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Speaker 1: on this story. I go to when it comes to

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Speaker 1: all things Amazon, Spencer Soaper. He's Bluemberg News technology and

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Speaker 1: e commerce reporter follows Amazon really really closely, and he's

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Speaker 1: back with us on the phone in Seattle. Um so, Spencer,

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Speaker 1: good to have you here. So what's going on? Uh? So,

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Speaker 1: I guess we have an example of just how tricky

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Speaker 1: that the job market is right now in terms of

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Speaker 1: employers trying to keep people happy. So yeah, Amazon was

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Speaker 1: you know, it's giving out bonuses of up to three

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars because it's got to get make sure it

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Speaker 1: has enough people to meet this explosive demand in online

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Speaker 1: commerce that just keeps, uh keeps growing, and this is

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Speaker 1: going to be a record busting holiday shopping season. But

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Speaker 1: that that that's angered existing workers who have been toiling

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Speaker 1: all along, and you know, many of them got vouchers

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Speaker 1: for turkeys, you know, as little as ten bucks. So

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Speaker 1: there's this kind of disparity and how Amazon's taking care

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Speaker 1: of existing workers who have been working all through the

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Speaker 1: pandemic and then the new recruits that they just need

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Speaker 1: to get through the holiday shopping season not to be ungrateful, right,

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Speaker 1: And we see this right where people get hired and

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Speaker 1: they come in at one salary and then somebody comes

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Speaker 1: in later and they get a better salary. Like this

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff happens, but it does make you wonder

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Speaker 1: about what Amazon is thinking that they're willing to do

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Speaker 1: this and they know it's going to get out there

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Speaker 1: publicly right about the discrepancies. You know, what were the

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Speaker 1: you know, inside conversations that that they had about this

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Speaker 1: before doing it, knowing that they were going to be

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Speaker 1: workers are like, what they're getting three thousand and I

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Speaker 1: got a fifteen dollar turkey voucher. Yeah, well that's that's

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Speaker 1: a good point. And we don't even know if there

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Speaker 1: were conversations like that because they're just right now, they're

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Speaker 1: just trying to manage to chaos and and and and

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Speaker 1: meet demand and so on. These bonuses they offer bonuses

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Speaker 1: every year, uh, and so they're coming. We just haven't

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Speaker 1: seen them quite this high, this three thousand dollars, and

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Speaker 1: so the UM the significance there and the new tish

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Speaker 1: there is that even a lot of people are out

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Speaker 1: of work, they're still scared of COVID and so having

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Speaker 1: Amazon's having to ratchet up the amount of money it

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Speaker 1: will pay to compel new workers to come in UM,

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Speaker 1: and then that's that's angering the exist the workers that

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Speaker 1: are already there. Well, so how is Amazon, spencer, you know,

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Speaker 1: this company, you talked to a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: are willing to go, you know, tell you what's going

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Speaker 1: on behind the scenes. How is Amazon handling UM workers

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Speaker 1: and making sure that they stay safe amid COVID. Amazon

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Speaker 1: has been pretty public about that in all of these

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Speaker 1: safety measures, you know, they're going to spend more than

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Speaker 1: ten billion dollars this year on a variety of things

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Speaker 1: including you know, masks and UM temperature checks at the

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Speaker 1: facilities and COVID tests of employees and stepped up cleaning.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of that cost is also simply lost productivity.

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Speaker 1: And that's where, because of social distancing, these facilities that

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Speaker 1: Amazon has that are already you know, will be pushing

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Speaker 1: capacity in a normal shopping season. Uh Now, we're just

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Speaker 1: not as productive because they have to space people out,

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Speaker 1: so they're getting less work done in their uh in

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Speaker 1: their normal facilities, and so that's putting an extra strain,

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Speaker 1: you know. So not only did have the higher shopping

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Speaker 1: demand on one end, on the other end, each of

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Speaker 1: their facilities is less productive than it would usually be

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Speaker 1: because of the need for social distancing. Yeah, exactly. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, whenever I think about Amazon and just the

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Speaker 1: amount of workers, especially as they continue to hire, and

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Speaker 1: I mean they hire like I feel like nobody else

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Speaker 1: out there in terms of the size of people that

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Speaker 1: they continue to bring in to meet demand. I do wonder,

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Speaker 1: you know, in terms of unionization, what progress or you know,

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Speaker 1: are there more steps likely to make it maybe a

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Speaker 1: possibility here in the U. S it already I think

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Speaker 1: in your story you point out it. It happens, it

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Speaker 1: is unionized over in Europe. Yeah, they have, they've avoided

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Speaker 1: unions in the In the US, there is a new

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Speaker 1: drive that was just launched in Alabama. Interestingly, Alabama is

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Speaker 1: the worst place where they got ten dollar turkey coupons.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the lowest that we saw that we saw.

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Speaker 1: So there's a there's a new campaign down down there,

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Speaker 1: it's incredibly hard to form a union UM. And and

431
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: there's a lot of tools that that employers can use

432
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 1: to prevent unions from happening UM up to an including

433
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: just simply firing people. Uh. Even though it's supposedly against

434
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: the law, the penalties are very soft. And so what

435
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: you can often see happen is if someone agitates for

436
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: a union, an employer can simply fire them, and then

437
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: that that puts the onus on that worker to fight them.

438
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: And and the only real consequence for the for the

439
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: employers is to pay them back wages and rehire them.

440
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: So I do wonder come I think they report next

441
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: in late January, their next earnings report, And I do wonder, Spencer,

442
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: I'm thinking as an investor, you know how these increased

443
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: costs of you know, paying higher bonuses perhaps to get

444
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: workers and right because Amazon can't can't me demand unless

445
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 1: they get the workers to show up. As you said,

446
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: there's concerns about you know, COVID obviously in social distancing.

447
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: Will these costs, these higher bonus says UM end up

448
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: showing up. Um, They're going to write on the expense

449
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: line when it comes to reporting and I do wonder

450
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: how to impacts the company financially potentially. Yeah, it is

451
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: going to affect them. It is going to put pressure

452
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: on their profits. They've projected that, They've said as much.

453
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: And I think that UM investors are very tolerant as

454
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: long as Amazon still showing the strong growth. If Amazon

455
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: can muscle through this uh and with marginal profits, but

456
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: still take care of its customers and accommodate all of

457
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: this growth, that sends a strong message to investors that

458
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: that this company can you know, it is well run

459
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: and confunction through this, through this pandemic without letting people down.

460
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: It would be much more significant long term to Amazon

461
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: to say, you know what, sorry, folks, we can't bring

462
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: this to you. UM, go go shop somewhere else. You

463
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: know that that would be much more devastating for investors

464
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: than than a high cost holiday quarter. Hey, Spencer, just

465
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: got about forty five seconds here. I mean, what are

466
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: your expectations? What are you hearing about what the holiday

467
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: season will be like for Amazon and will they be

468
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: able to meet the demand. Especially I keep hearing from

469
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: everybody I've already seen it, I'm already doing it. I'm

470
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: ordering online, I've started earlier than before. Um, and that's

471
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: how I'm going to shop this holiday season. Yeah, A

472
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: lot of that's gonna depend on exactly what you said.

473
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: Are our shopper is going to heed the warnings? Are

474
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: they going to shop early? Um? And and a lot

475
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: of that's going to fall in the pain is going

476
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: to fall in the consumer as well. If you're procrastinator

477
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: and you wait till the last minute, you're gonna have

478
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: to pay plenty to get the stuff on time. If

479
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: you if you can get it at all, All right,

480
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna leave it there. Hey, Spencer, thank you so much,

481
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Spencer Souper. He is, of course Blueberg

482
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: News technology and e commerce reporter writing on all things Amazon.

483
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: You can check him out as well on Twitter and

484
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: you can find him at Spencer Souper bro macro a journal. Now,

485
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: but you let me drive? Oh no, no, no please,

486
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 1: I'll do the right I want to dry. Just strive

487
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: the question trends. This is the Drive to the globe.

488
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: Thanks well, un on Bloomberg Radio, it is time for

489
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 1: the Drive to the close and back with us. As

490
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: Hillary Kramer, She's president and chief investment Officer at A

491
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: and G. Capital Research, author of Game Change or Investing,

492
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: How to Profit from Tomorrow's billion dollar Trend. She is

493
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: on the phone in New York City. Hillary, did you

494
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: see the Business Week cover last week? I did. I

495
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: have to tell you, we have quoted you so many times.

496
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: It's all about Chewi the cover story and anybody who's

497
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: been walking around their neighborhoods during the pandemic. I've seen

498
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 1: lots of Chewi boxes on the curb because we know

499
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 1: that these are essential items to make sure pets have

500
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: everything that they need. I mean, you have talked about

501
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: Chewy for a long long time. What's your investment THESI

502
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: still on the company going forward? Of course, we have

503
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: a much older valuation, uh, hovering in the seventy dollar

504
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: range of versus let's say, the first three times I

505
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: spoke about the stock on Bloomberg when it was in

506
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: the low twenties, starting in June two into September two,

507
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: November two thousand nineteen. And I do want to thank

508
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: you Bloomberg, you know, Bloomberg, your analysts, all of you

509
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: who have listened to me, have given me the opportunity

510
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: to explain my thesis and why a company like Chewie

511
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: could give someone a return, and indeed it did. And

512
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: that's why all these investors today have to be so careful,

513
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: because everyone's jumping in head first and they don't realize

514
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: that when they're buying companies like Trade Desk, they don't

515
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: realize that, you know, this was a company that had

516
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 1: one tenth of the stock price, you know, a year ago,

517
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: and they don't realize. And so my thesis on show

518
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: is thrilled to see it. I do think that you

519
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: could go to a hundred dollars to share. I have

520
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: always maintained that there was as uh, this backstop, which

521
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: is that Amazon would probably love to make an acquisition

522
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: of Chewy. It makes all the sense in the world

523
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: to you know, two sirs of Americans own pets. We

524
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: have had this whole humanization of pets, Chewy as a

525
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: customer service. Now, of course, luck is always important that

526
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,719
Speaker 1: they say, I'd rather be lucky than good, and I

527
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: did have some luck there in the in the in

528
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: the sad sense that of course we have had a

529
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: pandemic and then length and our animals have become more

530
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: important than ever. But even still we would have seen

531
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: a company like Chewy Dot com Rise and rise um

532
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: precipitously because um it was very simple and where the

533
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: differentiation came. And I love that Bloomberg article and Chewy.

534
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: The whole point is that yet Amazon is the eight

535
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: pound guerrilla, but there's certain products that people do not

536
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: use Amazon for. And Amazon's amazing growth, so much of

537
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: it comes from the Amazon Web Services. It's not because

538
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: they're selling everyone, you know, their milk blone dog biscuits.

539
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: It's because if you have all of these software companies,

540
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: you know, like z Scalers, which you know are are

541
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: are doing so well, that are using Amazon Web Services

542
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: because nobody none of these companies want to put their

543
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: software onto their actual um you know, they don't want

544
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: to download it. They want everything to be cloud based

545
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: UM and which which reminds me, you know, usually only

546
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: speak positively, but if you take a look at HP enterprises,

547
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: there's a reason why that stocks you know, trades around

548
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: ten dollars of shares because no one is buying software.

549
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: Everything is this annuity base model now, which is you know,

550
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: you pay by the month, and uh you you access

551
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: all the software, including cybersecurity software you know offline. Is

552
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: it a you know, on a day when we're expecting

553
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: earnings from HP. The old HP UM. You know that

554
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: that was the company everyone thought, Okay, that's the old one,

555
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: that's the boring one. We're not excited. HP is what

556
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: we're all excited about. HP is actually up on the year,

557
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: not so for HP. Right And and that's as simple

558
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: as that, because we have seen such a dramatic change

559
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: in the way that businesses utilize software, download what they

560
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: used in terms of that whole kind of cloud based

561
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: the cloud based UM, the cloud based lifestyle that we

562
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: have now. And it's as a matter of its human

563
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: resources stocks as I just said, cybersecurity stocks, or you know,

564
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: every kind of integration salesforce. That's the where we go.

565
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: All right, So Hillary Kramer, what's the next Chewie? In

566
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: your view? I have boring Chewies, but it'll make you money.

567
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: We go everywhere looking for stocks, and anyone who really

568
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: wants to try to make money out out there, you've

569
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: got to go for some of these smaller UM insurance companies.

570
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: Companies We love UM Safety Insurance s a f t

571
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: F four point nine percent dividing yield. It's a small

572
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: cap at one point one billion dollar market cap, here

573
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: pent institutional owners ship, and it's every kind of insurance.

574
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: It's a whether it's umbrella insurance, title homeowners This is

575
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: the direction where you're going to get a cheap stock

576
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: are other one that we love is Old Republic O

577
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: R I that in particular specializes, amongst other some funky insurances,

578
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: specializes in UH title insurance. So O R I the

579
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: book value eighteen dollars and the stock of O R

580
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: I Old Republic Insurance is at twenty one dollars, and

581
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: you have a four point six percent divid in yield.

582
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,719
Speaker 1: And so get the title insurance, get the aeronautical aerospace insurance,

583
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: and that is where the money will be made. Because

584
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: we just mean, look this word software. Okay, I have

585
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: to say, Carol, remember Groucho Marx and you had that

586
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: show and everyone looks for the word what was that word?

587
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: You said the word a toy duck would like come down.

588
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: That looked like Groucho And anything today that you say

589
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: the word software, cloud based, soft, where that's what it is,

590
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: it just gets brought up and uh and and and

591
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: of course you know I do have a growth portfolio,

592
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: and I have investors that want to see growth names

593
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: and so what do you do. You hold your nose

594
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: and you do what you can, and I just try

595
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: to take them out as quick as I can once

596
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: we get those uh once once we make the number

597
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: and we get some return. But these are these are

598
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: no nose bleed stocks right now, they really are, and

599
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,959
Speaker 1: that's why we're seeing a rotation. Let's say, you know

600
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: the Doubt, What an amazing day on the Doubt. But

601
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: you also have to look and realize. Now, you know

602
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: the Dow has bowing in it these days, right, so

603
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: Boeing had to you know, finally went back over two

604
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a year. This month. You have Apple in

605
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: there in Microsoft and JP Morgant and Goldman Sacks. So

606
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: everything is changing as we know it. But we all

607
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: have to realize that these are these are very precarious

608
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: times we're in. Everyone needs to be careful. I have

609
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: rose colored glasses, Carol. You know, I'm like bool bool

610
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: bool bye bye bye, but just how I am. But

611
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: now I want to say we all have to be

612
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: careful and just just just just wait until we see

613
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: what kind of um you know changes. We're going to

614
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: have an all right, yeah, got it? Yeah, No, you're

615
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: absolutely right, like and we all know when it comes

616
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: to something like a vaccine, that's still going to take

617
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: a little while to get to the other side of this.

618
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: Hillary Kramer, thank you so much, President and chief investment

619
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: Officer at A and G Capital Research, joining us on

620
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: the phone in New York City. Thanks so much for

621
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud,

622
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: or at Bloomberg dot com, and be sure to check

623
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: out our daily radio show at two pm Eastern on

624
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio, and be sure to watch us too on

625
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News