WEBVTT - Assaulted by Bill Cosby with Lili Bernard, Part 2 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.760 Last time on Navigating Narcissism, I sat down with Lily Bernard, 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:09.600 who shared never before heard details of her harrowing encounters 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:11.000 with Bill Cosby. 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:16.000 There were three druggings and three sexual assaults, and in 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:20.400 the first one, the betrayal was so profound that was 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:26.920 an Atlantic city and just made absolutely no sense that 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:28.760 I was actually able to block it out. I had 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:31.280 a huge confrontation with him. We were yelling at each 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.280 other in his brownstone. He was telling me that he 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:35.920 would erase me, and I interpreted that that he would 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:36.280 kill me. 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:40.640 This podcast should not be used as a substitute for 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:45.479 medical or mental health advice. Individuals are advised to seek 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:51.160 independent medical advice, counseling, and or therapy from a healthcare 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:56.320 professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issue, 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:03.080 or health inquiry, including matters discussed on this podcast. This 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:07.160 episode discusses abuse, which may be triggering to some people. 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.520 The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:15.360 podcast author or individuals participating in this podcast, and do 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:20.200 not represent the opinions of Red Table Talk productions, iHeartMedia, 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:26.680 or their employees. Here is part two of our conversation. 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:30.720 When Bill Cosby drugged me and raped me in Las Vegas. 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.759 I still didn't understand that he had drugged me. Oh, 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:39.160 I just thought that he accidentally made me drink a 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:40.360 whole glass of champagne. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:40.959 Ah yeah. 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.600 And so afterwards I went back to the studios and 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.080 I confronted him about it. I was like, mister c 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:48.600 was I drunk? And I still couldn't say the word 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:50.200 did you rape me? I couldn't say that because still 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:51.760 in my mind I didn't want to think that he 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.120 would have done that. But I confronted him, did you 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:55.840 give me the wrong glass? And I was hoping that 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:58.680 when I confronted him like that that he would say, oh, yeah, yeah, 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:00.880 and I raped you. Of course he didn't say that, 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.080 but so him not mentioning for me was like fine, 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.600 that it didn't happen. You know, I knew that I 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:07.640 was drugged and rape by Bill Cosby. I told my 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:09.440 agent at the time that it happened. I told my 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.160 best friend, I told therapists at the time. It was 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:16.560 very easy for me to remember Las Vegas that last 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:19.720 time in the apartment, but I kept blocking out Atlantic City. 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:23.000 So back in nineteen ninety two, from the trauma of 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:25.880 the cosby drugging and rape. I was very suicidal and 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.600 I was hospitalized a lot. And then again in twenty 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:33.360 fourteen when this resurgence happened, when Hannibal Buris inspired so 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.720 many survivors to come forward, the same thing happened to me. 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.560 I went through a crisis of PTSD crisis. This is 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.440 December or November twenty fourteen. I'm in the psych word 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.720 with this Russian psychiatrist and he's asking me questions. And 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:47.320 as he was talking to me, all of a sudden, 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:50.400 right there in front of him, all that Atlantic City 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:55.560 trauma just came fulllooding into my hand. I started sobbing. 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.680 It's just amazing how a brain can do block memories 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:01.120 in order to function. 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.720 In order to function, it's a protection our trauma system. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.160 Strangely enough, as much as they impair us and throw 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.519 us off, they're meant to be protective systems. That protection 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.639 is walling stuff off. So the moment it floods out 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.760 of us, it's a tidal wave. It's an absolute tidle wave, 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.560 and it overwhelms us. But you don't know what the 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:23.760 event is that will pull it out. In this case, 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:27.000 it was talking to this particular psychiatrist. You know, it's 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:30.760 not lost on me, Lily, that Atlantic City was so buried. 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.079 It was the first event. At this point, he was 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:38.320 still very firmly a safe person in your life, other 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.560 than the moment in his brownstone where he had grabbed 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.560 your breast and your gas slighting. There was actually quite 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.040 fascinating because and this speaks to all the things that 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.880 even happened in childhood to you. You touched my breast, No, 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.160 you didn't, back and forth, back and forth. So he's 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.920 denying it happened. And then what happens is you're the 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:00.280 one who's saying, what is wrong with me? That's the 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.800 gas slighted piece. But you were doing it to yourself, 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:07.120 which is not uncommon in people who have survived many 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:10.520 years of trauma, especially in systems like families as well. 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.400 I was taught to do that, Romney. My father was 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:18.640 an upstanding man, engineer, former professor of mathematics, a beloved individual, 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.000 and so when he did stuff to me, it just 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.320 didn't happen, you know, like we weren't abused my whole life, 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.679 doctor Romeney. I carried that lie to protect my father. 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.640 It's really weird, as the victim of violence to know 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.080 that this is happening to you, but the people who 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.760 do it and whom you regard highly are telling you 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.760 it didn't happen, so it mustn't happen. So it makes 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.800 your reality really confused. They're telling me it didn't happen, 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:47.880 but I know it happened. But I'm gonna get my 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.320 ass whooped if it does happen. So I'm just gonna 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:52.520 say it didn't happen. You're right, okay, m hm, okay, 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:53.720 mom bop, Okay. 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.200 Bill Cosby, it didn't happen. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.800 It didn't happen, okay, because it makes things easier. 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.120 That betrayal blindness. It does make things easier because and the 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:04.000 relationships can maintain the status quo, and he can remain 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.760 this icon right, all the things that almost make life easier. 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.119 But you now are carrying it all on your back. 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.360 Yeah, and as a black woman, it's a whole added 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:18.440 burden because not only like it was embarrassing and shameful 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.320 to me that I went through all that with Bill Cosby, 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.640 but then also like I can't let the world know 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:26.719 that Bill Cosby's really liked that, because what's that going 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:28.760 to do for the black mail image. Yeah, and you know, 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.359 there were other black celebrities who were who were mentoring 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.440 me concurrently. While Bill Cosby was mentioned me, Spike Lee, 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:39.040 Eric LaSalle, Ving Raims. I would go to their homes 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.159 with them. They would help me on my lines for 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:42.839 a place that I was in for my audition. Not 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:47.000 once did it ever cross the line of professionalism. Not once. 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.520 So this was an anomaly. But I felt like it 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.039 was really huge that the most lauded, the most revered, 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.960 the most beloved Black male in the world at that 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.040 time is a monster. 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.400 What did that pressure feel like to you? Because that 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.120 is pressure. This isn't even just about someone who's an 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:09.599 entertainment icon. This is the experience of a large swath 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.240 of the population who has been waiting for this moment 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.640 for the media to regard black excellence rather than black pathology. 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.360 Like this was more than just Bill Cosby. You felt 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:26.120 the responsibility of your race. How did you manage that? 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.600 It's hard and it still is hard. Yeah, I get 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.800 attacked still by black men, unfortunately kind of a black woman. 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.680 Are you bringing Bill Cosby down? He's an old man. 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.320 Let him rest. It's the past. All these lies that 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.000 are perpetuated. Why'd you go back to Barbara Zivi is 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.560 psychiatrists whom they bought on both in the Cosby trials 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.200 and in the Winstin trials. As an expert witness, really 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.160 edified the jury to understand that over eighty something percent 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.039 of rapes occur through intimate relationships with people whom we trust. 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.440 Whether it's a mentor like Bill Cosby was to me, 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.440 or an uncle or a priest, or a boy Scout teacher, whatever, colleague. 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.600 These are familiar relationships that idea of somebody jumping out 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:09.520 of the bushes is so much less likely, right, And 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.200 this idea, if a person ever has further contact with 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:14.240 that person, it's as though, well then they didn't, right, 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.480 because you went and talked to them again, which is 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.520 absolutely ridiculous. So you're in this trauma. It's happened multiple times. 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:22.800 You've now even said I'm going to confront you, and 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.560 he did something that perpetrators do all the time. You 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.680 say anything, I'm going to destroy you. That's right, it's 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:33.680 the silencing, many people say. Obviously the assault was traumatic, 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:38.360 but the menace that would follow weeks, months, years, that 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.720 was almost worse because you had to carry this within 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.080 you and even wonder who is he going to do 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:44.760 it to next. 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.240 I had already told my agent, and my agent was 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.520 confrontational about it. Nancy Brown. She kept trying to tell me, 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:51.400 go to the police, Go to the police. We have 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:53.280 to go to the police. I said, no, Nancy, we 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:55.800 can't because he threatened some very serious consequences to me. 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.320 I don't want him to ruin your career. I don't 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.480 want to kill you. We cannot do it. And she 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.640 kept trying to convince me, trying to convince me, and 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.400 then she called me and said, hey, you're on. You 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:06.040 know they made that. 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:06.520 Role for you. 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.559 You're gonna work. So I figured that he probably kept 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.480 his word about the job because I was so confrontational 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.640 about it. Maybe he feared that I would go to 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.000 the police. Maybe he went ahead and gave me that 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.560 job to silence me. I don't know. But that week, 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.440 the way the Cosby Show was taped is a tape 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:27.520 on a Thursday, right, and we were arguing that whole 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.560 week on set. I was confronting him about what had happened. 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.360 He was making me have every meal with him in 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.240 his dressing room, like sequestering me. My boyfriend at the 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.560 time was with me on set every day, and he 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.640 was very abusive to me during his stage directions. So 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.480 when I had to say a line, like if he 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.040 wanted me to say milk, he'd make me hit the note. 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.959 He'd say, no, say milk. And now I'm a trained 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:53.600 you know that, you know micromanage, you know a little notes, 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.199 and so I'd say milk. He said no, but not 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.640 I said milk, and he would insult me. And then 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.600 finally at the end of the dresser her so it 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:02.120 was time to go, and he said it's a rap 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.280 and everybody, all the crew started like wrapping up their 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.120 wires and I start heading out. He's going, no, Bernard, 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.280 we're not done. You're not through yet. You're not hitting 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.839 that right note. You're coming to my house and we're 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.760 going to continue rehearsing. Yeah, And I was like, I'm 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.120 not coming to your house, mister C. He's like, yes 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.200 you are. He's like, I'm not coming to your house, 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.080 mister C. So now so now he starts to have 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:25.719 like he was. He was racheful on set. Sometimes he 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.480 would explose in these rages. Interesting, So now everyone, all 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:31.280 the crew is starting to get red faced. I'm like, 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:33.439 I'm not going. He says, you're going to my house. Bernard. 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.040 I'm like, i am not. He's like, why not? It's 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:37.600 because you know what happened last time I went to 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:39.680 your house, mister. See, I'm not going again. So he 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:41.679 starts yelling at me, and in front of everybody, he cused, 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.880 this ain't about me trying to fuck you. Bernard. I 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.080 already hit that you ain't shit, You're ass ain't shit. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:51.120 You're going to my studio right now. So I was like, 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:53.640 I'm not. He's like, well, if you don't go, you're fired. 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.000 So he said you're fired, Bernard. This is the day 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.960 before we're before we're supposed to tape. So he stormed 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:01.960 into his dressing room. I store them out after him, 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:04.920 and we're yelling and screaming. And I was so traumatized 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.640 during that whole that whole week, and I want to say, Okay, 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.560 this is these are details that are embarrassing to talk about. Okay, 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.080 I'm gonna I'm just gonna let it all out. We 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.680 were arguing and he was still saying, you're fired, You're fire. 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:17.400 So I'm like, okay, well, the only way I'll go 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.000 to your house. So still this now, still me, knowing 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:21.360 that I had been raised, I'm still going to take 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.480 the risk to go to his house, right, So I said, 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:26.559 is if I call my boyfriend and let him know 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:28.800 where I am because he had met him. So he's 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.000 like fine. So he gives me the phone and we're 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.000 in his in his dressing room, and I call Franklin 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.200 is his name? I have to go. Mister C says 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.160 that if I don't go to his house and continue rehearsing, 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:40.960 I'm fired. He's like, don't go, don't go. I never 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.280 told the details to my boyfriend about what happened, but 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:45.120 I told him he was a leech. I told him, 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.000 I told that he did some inappropriate things, but never 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:48.679 told me the details. Don't go, don't go. So I 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:50.760 was like, well, here's the phone number, call me when 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.040 i'm there. So Cosby sends a car to his brownstone 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.040 and when I get there, only his butler is there. 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.040 And I'm sitting at the table and I have the 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.480 script and there's cake and a drink, and I'm just 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.720 waiting and waiting, like, oh my god, I have to rehearse, 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:06.520 and this is I'm not gonna drink anything. I'm not 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:09.280 gonna eat anything, but I worked so hard for this role. 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.200 I'm gonna do it. So Cosby comes in a few 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.240 moments later. He sits down at the table and he's like, 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.240 eat Bernard, I'm not eating anything, mister C. Is it drink? 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.440 I'm not drinking anything. Are we gonna rehearse or not? 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.520 So the phone rings and it was my boyfriend in 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:26.920 the kitchen, So mister C goes into the kitchen to 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.600 take the call. He sits back down and I'm like, okay, well, 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.680 are we gonna rehearse? So we open the things and 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:35.880 we start rehearsing. He's like this, literally like this reading 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.320 the life like this, blah blah blah blah. And I'm 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.960 looking at him like this, and I'm like, am I 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.839 doing this or not? He's like, blah blah blah, you're 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:46.760 fire burner. I get your ass out of here. So 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.520 I leave like that. I go home safe. I didn't 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.000 eat anything, I didn't consume anything. And I'm like, I'm fired. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.360 I can't believe this. And I just went home and 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:56.600 I cried, and I spent the whole night just crying. 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:58.440 I wake up in the morning to a phone call 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:00.640 and the car's outside waiting for me to do the job. 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:04.280 So that's how I went into it. Crazy. But you 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.720 see that even in my mind, I felt that I 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:08.720 still want it. Like a dummy, I still went to 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:09.280 his house. 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.040 Okay, I'm gonna call you out on that, Lily. You 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.400 were not a dummy. Okay, that's how people view it. 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.680 You call yourself a dummy. Other people call you a dummy. 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:24.160 You weren't a dummy. You were a person who experienced trauma. 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:29.280 You your brain, all of it was confused. You endured 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:33.000 trauma as a child, and on top of that, you 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:37.360 had spent your entire adult life developing a craft to 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:42.319 be an actor, and you wanted to do this. How 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.360 much of a damn life is someone that has to 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:49.520 keep sacrificing. How many women's careers in media and entertainment 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.920 have been destroyed. So you said, I don't even know 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:54.439 what to do. I don't know which way is up. 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.559 I don't know if I'm responsible. You were not a dummy. 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:01.240 You went in there because you had been through trauma 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:06.000 and simultaneously you were still trying to survive to preserve 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.880 yourself as an artist. There was nothing dumb about that. 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.040 You went back in there, and you held your ground. 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:12.320 I'm not drinking, I'm not eating. 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.520 I did all right, I'm going to didn't drug narrate me. 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.280 That no, And I made to tell my boyfriend I'm 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:17.920 gonna let people know. I'm going to have a plan 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.800 in place. And then on that day, you were no 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:25.319 longer an appealing target anymore. Done tell me more about that, 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:27.439 because you wouldn't drink, you wouldn't eat, you couldn't be broken. 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.280 You see the anger that was coming out up till that. 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.800 It was like, let's celebrate you, Bernard, Let's have a drink, Bernard, 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.080 Let's celebrate your career, Bernard. That was all that right. Well, 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.240 then mister rage is in the house because there's no 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.240 more overpowering you, right, because that's what perpetrators are. That's 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:46.760 what these malignant narcissistic types do. They cannot fully subjugate you, 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:48.959 own you. They don't want anything to do with it. 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.120 Fool you, fool if it wasn't fooled anymore. 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:52.400 Yeah, you weren't fooled anymore. 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:54.960 But I still put myself in that dangerous position. 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.760 I understand that, I understand that I wouldn't get hurt, 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.160 but that's still the trauma. I think that that's the 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.400 piece that people forget, and you know it to this day, 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.720 all of us who are trauma survivors, we still find 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.640 ourselves in these positions and even afterwards just saying why 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:11.880 did I do that? But what we have to break 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.920 out of is that that's not dumb. That is how 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.880 nervous system working the way it does. But unfortunately the 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.440 narrative is then, well you went back that time, right 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.560 and work in this show. We're killing that damn narrative. 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.840 I was used to being treated back to Yeah, I 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.360 like my sense of self worth was so low, Like 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.560 to me, that was all normal. Violence was normal to me, Like, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.040 this is my lot in life. Men whom I love 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:37.520 are just going to treat me like shit and I 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.240 have to navigate that right, right, So try to make 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:41.400 the best out of it, you know. 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:43.240 Try to make the best out of it. And what's 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.840 also striking to me, Lily, I don't even know what 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:47.480 you were channeling to be able to do this, To 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.560 have gone through three incidents of abuse, the amount of 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:56.200 fear that was involved, the amount of vigilance, of anxiety 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.600 of being on edge, to deal with all of that, terror, 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:02.320 and I still have to show up and be a 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.400 performer and actually play a role. How did you do that? 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:07.760 Yeah, that's just as part of my life, you know. 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:09.200 Like there was this one time when I was in 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:11.160 fifth grade and my dad beat the crap out of 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:12.960 me so badly with the belt that I had these 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.800 you shaped bruises all in my legs, right, and so 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:20.880 I had to like lie to myself basically that everything 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.000 is okay and normal. And I remember being in the 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.480 girl's locker room and terrified to take off my pants 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:26.800 and wear the shorts because the kids are going to 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:28.600 know that I'm being abused at home and I want 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.480 to be normal. They ended up sending me to the 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.600 principal's office, and the principal called my mom. You know, 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:35.760 they saw all these bruises, and the Principal's like, what 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:37.920 happened to you? And I was like, I knew what happened, 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.840 but I said, oh, my pony kicked me. And when 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:42.760 I got home, my mom's like, why did you lie 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:44.480 to the principle that you had a pony? You don't 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.480 have a pony. And I couldn't even tell my mom, Well, 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.160 what else was I was supposed to tell her about 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.000 all these bruises, you see, So we kind of lie 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:56.440 to ourselves, yeah, to normalize it and to like destigmatize 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.000 ourself because I don't want anybody to know that Bill 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.360 Cosby drugged me, and I don't want anybody to know 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.440 that I was so vulnerable that I trusted him and 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.600 I ended up being drugged and sexually assaulted by him 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.160 three times. What a dummy, you know, Like, how could 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:10.280 I let that happen? 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.360 You know, let that happen, right, let that happen. I'm 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.640 a dummy. The survivorship shame is huge, and it's real 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.320 when you were talking about the pony kicked me bruises. 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.680 How much the traumatized child is invested in looking normal 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.360 to the world, right. The fantasy for the traumatized child 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.840 is my family is normal, We're happy like other families. 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.920 No one is harming anyone. And Judith Hermann's work on 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.960 trauma really gets at this idea. How much the traumatized 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.239 child has to become this almost like an expert storyteller 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.040 who writes the justifications. And then the child in all 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:45.680 of this is the bad one. The child is the 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.760 one doing things. The child is clumsy, the child is 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.640 getting in the way, the child is listening. That's how 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.720 they internalize it, because the alternative is to believe that 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:55.760 the parent is a monster. 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.080 Wow, it's a really important thing, because that's exactly I 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.280 didn't realize that You've helped me and my siblings understand 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.320 a lot about why we behave the way we do. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.680 But in retrospect now, when I look back, the last 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:07.760 contact I had with him was actually on my birthday, 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:12.320 February of nineteen ninety two. This is after the three 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.879 drugging assaults happened. I went back to the offices. He 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.520 was in his dressing room with some celebrities, and I 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.440 went there because I had picked up a letter of recommendation. 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.000 After I did all my acting gigs, I always got 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.280 letters of recommendations, like any professional would. I'm still thinking, Okay, 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.480 I had that trauma, but okay, I'm still a professional. 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:32.960 He told me I was gonna be in the different world. 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.520 You know. He was sitting on a couch with these celebrities, 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:38.000 and I said, I'm getting ready to go to you know, 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.720 to LA for pilot season. Are you going to introduce 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:42.720 me to the people in different world? And he yelled 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:44.400 at me in front of them. You were done Bernardi's 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:46.800 You're done. You're dead. To me, I don't want to 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:48.440 ever see your face again in front of these people. 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:49.320 In front of these people. 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:50.920 Oh yeah, And so that was it. That was the 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.160 last time I saw Bill Cosby. And to see all 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.760 those people in the studios with whom I had been, 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.920 you know, speaking and talking like. I did not want 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.520 all these actors and producers and directors to know that 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.720 I had gone through this unbelievable trauma. So I wanted 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.240 to maintain a source of normalcy. Yeah, okay, so everyone's 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.600 looking at me. I have to say goodbye to Bill Cosby. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.520 So I wanted to maintain like that sort of functionality 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.960 is like a performance almost, you know, like to perform 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.399 this normalcy just so that I don't know. Part of 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:23.960 it is so I could survive, but also so that 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.080 people wouldn't know, you know, like to protect the perpetrator, 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:28.679 to protect the lie. 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.800 Right to also to avoid the shame, the shame, the 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.200 cast such a cold shadow. The shame is that we're 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.800 not like everyone else, We're not normal in a way. 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:40.719 We all want to be invisible when it comes to that. 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:42.239 No one wants to be the one who sticks out 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.880 in terms of having had a difficult backstory, a shameful, 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.879 bashing story, and that is a huge piece. When you 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:53.040 add additional layers to that, like race, like gender, that 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:54.639 shame gets multiplied. 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.120 Yeah, and it was really shame because I remember feeling 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.600 like I'm stupid. I just remember, I'm so stupid. I'm 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.520 how could I be so dumb to trust its people think? 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.119 How could this have happened three times? You know, like 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.320 I'm dumb, like no one's gonna believe me, and and 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.200 like I'm I just felt like stupid. 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.400