1 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Growing up in the Maryland suburbs outside of d C, 2 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: Broadway was just far enough away to seem like another world, 3 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: a magical one. So it's no surprise that some of 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: my fondest memories are of the train trips i'd take 5 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: with my parents to go and see Broadway shows. First 6 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: was the musical Barnum starring Jim Dale. Joined the third 7 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: just like hi Wan when I was a killed. After that, 8 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: I think it was Annie. I don't mean anything by you. 9 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: Both were great shows, but the trip we took in 10 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: February was next level. We were going to see a 11 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: show that was nothing short of an event. I loved 12 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical Cats even before I saw it, 13 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: and not in an ironic way. I played that original 14 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: Broadway cast album until the vinyl almost melted. The song 15 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: memory instantly unforgettable junior Face. My friend Mario and I 16 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: would listen to it over and over on the stereo 17 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: in his family room, and when Betty Buckley would hit 18 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: that big note, I would grab the nearest sofa pello 19 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: and bite it. Look, I was only thirteen years old. 20 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: I honestly didn't know how else to channel the urges 21 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: it tapped into. When I finally saw the show as 22 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: a much more sophisticated four year old, my expectations were 23 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: actually exceeded. That's set, the costumes, and that dancing. My 24 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: parents and I sat in the very last row of 25 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: the balcony, so the cats who came into the audience 26 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: didn't come anywhere near us. But so what, It was 27 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: still impossibly exciting. Afterwards, I went back home to Bethesda, 28 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: Maryland with an official cat's sweatshirt, the one with the 29 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: two yellow cat eyes on the back. I wore that 30 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: sweatshirt to Pile Junior High almost every day for the 31 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: rest of the winter. I ended up writing a letter 32 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: to every member of the cast twice. I only received 33 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: a couple of responses, but I was absolutely thrilled that 34 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: one of them was from Mr Mustaphel's himself, Tim Scott, 35 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: this dancer. When he did twenty four consecutive weets, he 36 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: took my breath away. I didn't know that those wild 37 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: spins were called forwetas, or even how spell the word. 38 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: All I knew was that I was watching someone defy 39 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: the laws of physics. Tim Scott's letter to me was short, 40 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: but gracious. I was just so happy that he answered. 41 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,839 Speaker 1: But back then I had no idea of the offstage 42 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: drama that was quietly building for Tim Scott and for 43 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: many in the cast of Cats, for the Broadway community 44 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: at large, and especially for the gay men who were 45 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: in essential part of that community. AIDS was discovered first 46 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: and young homosexual meant there is no cure and it 47 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: is often fatal. By the fall of two when Cats 48 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: opened on Broadway, AIDS had become a health crisis. By 49 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: the end of the decade, it would claim the lives 50 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: of over one hundred thousand Americans and would devastate the 51 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: arts world. In the original cast of Cats alone, AIDS 52 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: would cut down four dancers at the very top of 53 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: their careers and in peak physical form. The tragedy of 54 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: the whole thing, isn't it. That's a microcosm of the 55 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: big picture. You've got to show that's about youth and vitality, 56 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: and these are people who were taken down in the 57 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: prime of their lives. This is the story of one 58 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: of those dancers. It's a story of talent, beautiful, beautiful dancer. 59 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 1: You can't imagine all of the tricks that he did. 60 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: It was just absolutely incredible. It's a story of dreams 61 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: I'll never begin, he said, you know what, I just 62 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: want to be the best dance so I could possibly 63 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: be and be on Broadway. Most of all, it's a 64 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: love story. One night he turned and looked at me, 65 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: and I looked back at him, and there was this long, 66 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: meaningful moment. So I like to say that I fell 67 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: in love with him when he was dressed as a 68 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: cat from CBS Sunday Morning and I heart I'm Morocca 69 00:04:52,000 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: and this is mobituaries, this moment. Timothy Scott, February eight, 70 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: death of a dancer. My parents splurged and they brought 71 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: me the five dollar souvenir programs and inside there's an 72 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: autograph best Ken page. Oh my goodness, oh wonderful look 73 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: at that. And I had to thank you for stopping 74 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: on Seventh Avenue when it was really cold in February 75 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: signing my souvenir program. Uh, we'll see, we didn't know it, 76 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: but this day was gonna happen. I'm talking to well, 77 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: really gushing over actor Ken Paige, who played the role 78 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: of Old Deuteronomy in the original Broadway cast of Cats. 79 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: When I saw Ken Paige and Cats, I was already 80 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: a fan of his from the musical review ain't misbehaving. 81 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: I'm going right now and write you might know Ken 82 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: Paige best as the voice of the evil Oogie Boogie 83 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: in Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas. It's good book 84 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: and attention now, bogie Man. But I'm talking to Ken 85 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: today because of his connection to CATS co star Timothy Scott. 86 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: You see, Cats wasn't the first time Ken and Tim 87 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: worked together. They both began their professional stage careers as 88 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: teenagers at the legendary St. Louis Municipal Opera Theater commonly 89 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: known as the Muni, the oldest and largest outdoor musical 90 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: theater in North America. He was in the dance ensemble 91 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: and I was in the singing ensemble. He danced. I 92 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: don't say I moved well, and I will never be 93 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: At this day. There's a beautiful fountain between a rehearsal 94 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: space and the backstage, and he was sitting up at 95 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: the top and the water was sort of running through 96 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: his feet and everything. And he said to me, he said, 97 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: you know what, I just want to be the best 98 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: dance so I could possibly be and be on Broadway. 99 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, me too. I want to be 100 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: I want to be on Broadway too. You know, I 101 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: was eighteen, so he must have been probably seventeen. As 102 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: it turns out, their dreams of Broadway were not far fetched. 103 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: Timothy Scott Schnell was born on September in Morton Grove, Illinois, 104 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: a suburb of Chicago. Tim had something of a late start. 105 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: A lot of dancers start training as early as four 106 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: years old. Tim Scott didn't start taking dance lessons until 107 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: he was a teenager, but it was clear from the 108 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: get go he was un natural. He went straight from 109 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: high school into show business. After the Muni, Tim Scot 110 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: moved to New York City. Success came quickly. Broadway impressario 111 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: Michael Bennett cast Tim in the first international company of 112 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: a chorus line. Soon after, Tim was touring nationally in 113 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: Bob Fosse's smash musical review Dance Him. We Got Spent 114 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: Sleeps joke Scott Whils another incredible bonny gigs, but I 115 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: am not allowed to mention on television. Tim was what's 116 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: called an ensemble dancer. Back then, they were called gypsies, 117 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: which actress Bonnie Franklin defined at the nine Tony Awards 118 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: maybe I'd better explain to the audience at home and 119 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: that the term gypsy lovingly applies to all danswers in 120 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: the Broadway theater. They were called that because they traveled 121 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: from company to company, from chorus line to chorus line, 122 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: constantly auditioning for their next gig. This was and is 123 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: the life of a dance sir. In Tim toured with 124 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: the popular comedy Mine duo Shields and Yarnell. Yes, and 125 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,599 Speaker 1: this was the time when mimes could be superstars. To 126 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: be a Pepper Pepper all you gotta do. The next year, 127 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: Tim danced on a ceiling in a big Dr Pepper commercial. Yeah. 128 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: Then in came the casting call for Cats. I think 129 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: we all had a sense that it was a really 130 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: big deal. We didn't really know what the show is about, 131 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: you know. I asked my agent, so, what can you 132 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: tell me what it's about? And she goes, Cats, and 133 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, but what's the store And she goes, 134 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: it's about cats. That, my friends, is the one and 135 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: only Betty Buckley, the woman who caused me to bite 136 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: that sofa pillow all those years ago when she hit 137 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: that note, Oh I love that. When I first met 138 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 1: you and you told me that story. I was so 139 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: touched by that. That's amazing to me, so great. She 140 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: was called in for the pivotal role of Grizabella the 141 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: Bedraggle to pass her prime glamour cat. And so I 142 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: went into audition and they told my agent that they 143 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: weren't going to consider me because I radiated health and 144 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: well being and they wanted someone who radiated death and dying. 145 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: Lucky for us, she got the role, joining a cast 146 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: that included Ken Paige and Tim Scott. So the first 147 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: day of Cats, I walked up to him and I said, well, 148 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: I guess you're officially one of the great best dances 149 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: on Broadway, and particularly in that role. That was a very, 150 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: very coveted role. Tim was cast as Mr Mustapheles, the 151 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: conjuring cat. Here he is singing, we can die like 152 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: a flying tuck me. In a show that was focused 153 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: on spectacular musical numbers and not a whole lot on plot, 154 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: Tim's role was one of the most challenging. It required 155 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: a dancer with extraordinary technique, but Tim had something more 156 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: than that. He had presence. He had these amazing eyes. 157 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: His eyes were like blue beans. He also had this 158 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: sort of mysterious nous about him and he was always there. 159 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: The first time I saw him dance, I found it 160 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: un Kenny that I had this rush of joy through 161 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: my body that was completely spontaneous and it was not 162 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: an intellectual experience of like, oh that guy dances really well. 163 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: It was like this kind of breathless, exquisite joy watching 164 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: him and I was like, who's that kid, you know, 165 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: I mean, why is he able to do that? Okay? 166 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: Sidebar Cats is more than anything a dance show for 167 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: the actors who had limited background and dance, like Betty 168 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: Buckley and Ken Paige. Rehearsing for Cats was like Marine 169 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: Corps basic training. The Winter Garden Theater was there Paris Island. 170 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: There were five of us that were like normal people, 171 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, and the rest of them were like amazing. 172 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: Betty and I both had to do the full on 173 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: dance class, you know, and you had to do it. 174 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: I had to do cart wheels across the floor in 175 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: front of this incredible company of dancers and Cats and 176 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: Campaige and I just clung to each other and I 177 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: was like I'm going to die and he was like, 178 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: I'm right with you. And it was like so humiliating 179 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: old Deuteronomy and Chris Sabella are not cartwheeling cats we 180 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: should be clear about. No, that's we should be clear. Well, 181 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: you have no idea now. When the show finally opened 182 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: in October two, it didn't get great reviews, But so 183 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: what reviews are about? The here and now cats? As 184 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: the commercial tagline pointed out, was now and forever. Catch 185 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: now and forever At the Window Garden Theater, it was 186 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: the show to see and be seen at Andy Warhol, 187 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: Diana Ross, Frank Zappa, Carrie Grant, Mary Tyler Moore. Those 188 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: are just a few of the big names who showed up. 189 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: Then it swept the Tony's Betty Buckley one for Best 190 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: Featured Actress in a Musical. I want to thank my 191 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: mom and my dad and my brother no him and 192 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: my other brothers and that brother. She thanked Norman, even 193 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: though he wasn't in the show, his life was about 194 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 1: to be changed by it. Oh. I was very much 195 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: a country boy. I probably still am at heart, you know, 196 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: my most essential self. It was an exciting time for me, 197 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: but I was also a little lost amongst all the hubbub. 198 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: On the other side of the break, Grizabella's younger brother 199 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: and Mr Mustaphile's meat. What was it like having your 200 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: little brother backstage with you at Cats? Well? At first, 201 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: I mean I was really happy that he was there. 202 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: And my brother and I, you know, have been at 203 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: points in our lives very close. That's Betty Buckley talking 204 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: about her little brother, Norman Buckley back in the early 205 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: eighties when she was starring in Cats. Norman was new 206 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: to New York. Sister and brother may have been close, 207 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: but Betty didn't know that Norman was gay. We grew 208 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: up in Texas with a military father, and you know, 209 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't something that was certainly discussed or we even considered. 210 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: So he was staying at my apartment when he first 211 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: came to New York and was coming out as a 212 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: gay person, and I didn't know what was going on. 213 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: So he left some of his journals out for me 214 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: to see, and I read some entries and was shocked, 215 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: was like, what is this? And so there was some 216 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: big confrontations between he and I, and I can freely 217 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: admit that I don't think I handled those very well. 218 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: Norman describes himself as a country boy back then. What 219 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: was he like? Was he innocent? Was he very boyish, 220 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: totally innocent. Oh my god, that's why I was scared, 221 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: wet behind the ears, delicate artistic boy. Yeah, I knew 222 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: he was twenty seven, but still to me, he was 223 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: always my little baby brother who was a vulnerable, sweet kid. Today, 224 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: Norman Buckley is an accomplished TV director, having worked on 225 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: over forty shows, including The o C, Gossip Girl, and 226 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: Pretty Little Liars? Does It Not Really? But the Sluttier 227 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: than Better? Back then, Norman was working as an editing 228 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: room assistant on the movie Easy Money, just across the 229 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: street from the Winter Garden Theater. I would generally, uh, 230 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: just visit with her earn her dressing room until she 231 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: had to go back on stage. Norman's favorite place in 232 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: the theater was the cat walk high above the stage. 233 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: That's where he'd watched the end of the show when 234 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: Grizabella ascends on a giant tire to the heavy side 235 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: layer the equivalent of cat Heaven, at least I think 236 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: that's what it is. That's actually the first time I 237 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: had an encounter with Tim Scott, because that was where 238 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: he would make his big entrance for his big number 239 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: as Mr Mustapoles. He was lowered on a rope from 240 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: that same cat walk. For a long period of time, 241 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: he didn't even register that I was up there with him. 242 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: And then one night he turned and looked at me, 243 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: and I looked back at him, and there was this long, 244 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: meaningful moment. Tim may have been dressed as a cat 245 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: with lots of cat makeup, but Norman was spellbound. He 246 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:04,360 Speaker 1: had very intense eyes. He was kind of otherworldly looking. 247 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: I was much taller than him. Norman was six one, 248 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: Tim seven. We looked a little bit like Mutt and Jeff. 249 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: Some days later, after the show, Norman and his sister 250 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: Betty shared a big Checker taxi cab with Tim. During 251 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: the ride, Norman and Tim experienced another wordless moment of connection. 252 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: This was a much more profound encounter. At that moment, 253 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: I thought, oh, this person is going to be significant 254 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: in your life. You really thought that there very much, 255 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: so I can remember it as though it happened yesterday. 256 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: I looked at him, I took him in, he was 257 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: taking me in, and I thought, this is it. The 258 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: very next night, Norman mustered his courage and stood in 259 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: the doorway of Tim's dressing room at intermission, and I said, 260 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: do you want to have dinner, and he said, yes, 261 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: it was like great, and that was it? Is that 262 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: the kind of thing you could have imagined your self 263 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: doing even six months before. I can't even imagine myself 264 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: doing that now. So it's I think I met him 265 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: the next night on the corner. I still didn't want 266 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: to tell my sister that I was seeing somebody in 267 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: her show. Norman says. The chemistry was instant. Was he funny, 268 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 1: very funny. He had a great sense of humor. I 269 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: laughed a lot his jokes. It's got to be at 270 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: least one laugher in the relationship. But Betty was concerned. 271 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: In New York City, the whole gay scene in the nighties, 272 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, was wild, and I was terrified for him. 273 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: I was just basically scared, and we didn't know what 274 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: AIDS was quite yet. In fact, when AIDS was first reported, 275 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,719 Speaker 1: it wasn't even called AIDS. A mystery disease known as 276 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: the gay plague has become an epidemic unprecedented in the 277 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: history of American medicine. The lifestyle of some male homosexuals 278 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: has triggered an epidemic of a rare form of cancer. 279 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: A mysterious, newly discovered disease, which affects mostly homosexual men. 280 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: When did the disease become real to you? Well, you know, 281 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: it's that trajectory that you see so wonderfully portrayed in 282 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: Long Time Companion. It really was the thing where people 283 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: started whispering, and things started popping up from the newspaper, 284 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: and people started making calls saying, did you hear about 285 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: this thing that's going around? That's ken page again. He's 286 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: referring to the nine movie Longtime Companion, directed by Norman Renee, 287 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: who ultimately died from AIDS himself. The film opens on 288 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: the morning of July three. The characters wake up to 289 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: the ominous New York Times article by Lawrence k Altman, 290 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: the first in a mainstream publication to make reference to 291 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: the disease that would be called AIDS. They immediately begin 292 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: phoning each other, Hello, have you seen the paper? Oh? 293 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: I was just shipped to help. Have you got it? Yeah, 294 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: the page, you can't miss it. Did you see the paper? 295 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: I missed that? Oh well, just listen. Rare cants are 296 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: seen in forty one Homosexuals. By the time Cats was 297 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: in rehearsal, concern was burgeoning into a sense of alarm. 298 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: Then you started to hear did you know so? And 299 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: so I heard they're not well, they have they have 300 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: that gay cancer. Right. There was fear everywhere. Ken remembers 301 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: when early in the epidemic he was working in Los 302 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: Angeles and went to pick up a friend at the airport. 303 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: Ken was stunned by the friend's appearance. He was a 304 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: good twenty five pounds lighter and blessing. He was saying, well, 305 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: I got this rash. I want to get in the 306 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: sun so I can get rid of this rash. And 307 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: I feel bad about it to this very day, thinking 308 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: to myself, I don't know do I want him staying 309 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: in my house. He came to me for solace and comfort, 310 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: but I was afraid of what that all meant. And 311 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: I can honestly say that I don't think I handled 312 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: it as well as I could have. But it was 313 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: typical for what everybody was experiencing. Even after the generic 314 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: sounding acronym AIDS Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome was coined in September 315 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: of two, it felt like the full force of blame 316 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: for the disease was being placed squarely on gay men. 317 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: Of course, being gay was already stigmatized. The American Psychiatric 318 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 1: Association had only removed homosexuality from its list of mental 319 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: disorders in ninety three, and in two only one state, Wisconsin, 320 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: had a law on the books making it illegal to 321 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: fire people simply for being gay. Coming out of the closet, 322 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: never easy to begin with, was even scarier when it 323 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: seemed to carry a death sentence for me. Just realizing 324 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: I was gay at the time. I was twelve years 325 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: old when AIDS was first being widely reported, wasn't just fraught, 326 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: it was frightening. I vividly remember a day in eighth 327 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: grade when a teacher finally talked to us about AIDS. 328 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: The girl who sat in front of me turned around, 329 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: looked straight at me, and said, that's what you're going 330 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: to get. Many years later she reached out to me 331 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: on social media to apologize. Of course I forgave her. 332 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: It was junior high. We were all incredibly mean to 333 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: each other. Once Norman and Tim were officially a couple, 334 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: Betty gave her blessing, so I was really relieved in 335 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: so many ways that Tim was his first great love. 336 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: When she did find out about the relationship with Tim, 337 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: she was very approving, I told her, and she hesitated 338 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: for a moment, thought about it, and she said, well, 339 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: you picked the right one. She said, I can see this. 340 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: I loved Tim, and of course I love my brother, 341 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: so ultimately I was like, well, it's not money of 342 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: my business, and I have to say I love them both. 343 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,719 Speaker 1: So there we go. But while Betty may have been relieved, 344 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: Tim Scott him self was increasingly worried. Dates was always 345 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: a specter that kind of hung over our relationship. Tim 346 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: had actually been involved with someone who was one of 347 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: the really early AIDS cases that young man was dying. 348 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: During previews of Cats, Tim would go from the theater 349 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: sometimes to his hospital room and sit with him. Now 350 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: bear in mind, in AIDS test was still three years 351 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: away and any life saving treatment was fourteen years away. 352 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: We had a hair dresser named Paul Lopez who worked 353 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: on eight Misbehavior, and he got sick and he wasn't 354 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: feeling well, like on Wednesday, Mattnee. He wasn't doing well. 355 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: Thursday he came in. They said, you really aren't well. 356 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: You should go home. Friday he went into the hospital Saturday, 357 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: Sunday he was unconscious by Monday, and he died on Tuesday, 358 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: and that was from Wednesday. Not even a week later, 359 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: he was gone. The federal government wasn't slow to act. 360 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: It didn't act at all. On October fifteenth, two, just 361 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: a week after CATS opened, President Reagan's Press Secretary Larry Speaks, 362 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: was asked about AIDS by a reporter named Lester King, Solving. 363 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: Here's how that exchange went. Have any reactions with the 364 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: announce from the Center for Disease Control Atlanta that a 365 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: d S is now an epidemic in six six hundred cases. 366 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: It's known as gay play. Yes, I mean, it's a 367 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: pretty serious thing that one and every three people again 368 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: this have died. And I wondered if the president where 369 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: I don't have it? Are you do you? You don't 370 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: have it? Well, I'm relieved to hear that you don't 371 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: answer my question. How do you know? That's right? Speaks 372 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: and much of the White House Press Corps, we're treating 373 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: AIDS and its victims as a joke. President Reagan himself 374 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: didn't utter the word AIDS, and then only in response 375 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: to a reporter's question, until the fall of over four 376 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: years into the devastation. When Tim's contract with CATS ended 377 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: that same year, the couple decided to move west and 378 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: begin a new chapter in Los Angeles. Not long after 379 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 1: their move, they drove up to Malibu. We went out 380 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 1: to Zuma Beach one day and he said to me, 381 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: very tentatively, I really can't imagine my life without you, 382 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: and I want to stay with you for the rest 383 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: of my life. And I responded, I want to stay 384 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: with you for the rest of my life. It was 385 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: this really solemn moment. I like to think of it 386 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: as a vows. I considered myself married to Tim. There 387 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: was no legal way to do that at the time, 388 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: and it was a commitment. And I'm so happy that 389 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: had happened before he became ill, because there was no 390 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: question but that I would see him through it. And 391 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: I think he felt that on the other side of 392 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: the break. Tim Scott's last show, the Ultimate tribute to 393 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: the dancer What I did doing what we Love. That's 394 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: her anthem, what I did for love. I'm visiting tonight 395 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: at the home of Tim Scott. I'll knock on the 396 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 1: door now, Hello, Hello, would you like to come in? 397 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: I would like to come in. I'm watching home video 398 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: of Norman Buckley and Tim Scott. It's sometime in late 399 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: or early and they're joking around giving a tour of 400 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: their so me two bedroom apartment in West Hollywood. Here 401 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,959 Speaker 1: is Kennedy. Here we meet their cat, who just happens 402 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: to be named more. Look at the cat's eyes. Really 403 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: looked like the eyes on the back of my cat sweatshirt. 404 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: Tim and Norman seem happy. Why shouldn't they be. They're young, 405 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: thirty years old. They make each other laugh, and career wise, 406 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: things are going well for both of them. At the time, 407 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: Norman was working as an assistant editor on a horror 408 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: movie called Trick or Treat starring Gene Simmons of Kiss 409 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: He's a rook and Roll and during this period, Tim 410 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: scored two film gigs. He was cast in the four 411 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: D spectacular Captain Eo, shown exclusively at Disney Parks. This was, 412 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: at the time the most expensive film per minute ever made. 413 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: Tim is part of the enormous On so Bold, dancing 414 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: behind Michael Jackson. Tim was also cast in the movie 415 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: version of the musical A chorus Line. It's a bit part. 416 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: He plays boy with headband. Seriously, that's his screen credit. 417 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: But so what? It was a job on a movie 418 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: up We even get to hear him sing briefly, God, 419 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: I really blew it, I really blew it. What I 420 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: love about it is that it's very brief, but it 421 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: very much captures Tim's spirit. It's a short, lovely cameo. 422 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: And then, ten years after he toured internationally in the 423 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: stage production of A chorus Line, Tim was cast in 424 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: a European tour of the show. Okay, since it's come 425 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: up a couple of times, let's talk for a moment 426 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: about a chorus line. This musical is the ultimate tribute 427 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: to dancers just like Tim, not stars, not household names, 428 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: dancers struggling and auditioning for roles in the chorus, not 429 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: doing it with the expectation of becoming rich and famous, 430 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: but doing it for the love of dancing. Tim was 431 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,959 Speaker 1: cast in the role of Mike, a dancer who's up 432 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: for any challenge. Perfect for Tim. I mean to have 433 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: Tim's technique, his splits and jumps and turns and all 434 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: of that quite spectacular. This is Broadway legend. Bi orch Lee, 435 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: you are in the original King and I Yes, How 436 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: old were you? I was five, by the way, I 437 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: was fired at eight because I outgrew my costume. By 438 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: York went on to play Connie in the original Broadway 439 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: cast of A chorus Line. A good ten, cak what ten? 440 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: That's the story of my life. A chorus Line was 441 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,719 Speaker 1: conceived by the legendary dancer turned director Michael Bennett, who 442 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: would himself die from aids by orc. The keeper of 443 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: the chorus Line Flame has been directing revivals and road 444 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: companies of the show for decades. It is a tribute 445 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: to the dancer. The audience comes in, and what Michael 446 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: wanted to convey was that they were peeking in on 447 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: an audition, because no one has ever seen an audition 448 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: outside of the people who are involved. One song that 449 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: Tim Scott sang many times as part of the ensemble 450 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: of A chorus Line is what I Did for Love. 451 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: It's a song about the short and sometimes painful careers 452 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: of dancers. It pops up towards the end of the 453 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: show after one of the dancers has had a serious 454 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: accident and has to drop out of the industry altogether. 455 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: The director asks the remaining dancers what they would say 456 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: if they learned that they could never dance again. The 457 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: character of Morales starts the song off kiss Today You 458 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: could love The suitetness and the sorrow. Wish me luck 459 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: the same to you. But I can't regret what I 460 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: did for love. What I did for love the message 461 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: of the song. Whatever life throws at these artists, they'll 462 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: face the future with the same bravery and undefeated optimism 463 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: with which they pursued their careers, however short they may be. 464 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: It's about survival, but also doing what we love. That's 465 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: her anthem, what I did for love. To do it 466 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: because you love it. Whether you're dancing, singing, acting, or 467 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: whatever you do, we do it because we love it. 468 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: I think there's something really special about Tim Scott's last 469 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: show being the show that pays tribute to the dancer. Yeah. 470 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: A few weeks into their European tour, by Orc noticed 471 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: that Tim Scott was losing stamina. At the time, I 472 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: did not know that he was ill. I think we 473 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: were in Surich and he wasn't feeling well. He had 474 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: no energy at all. Tim was having holistic medications mailed 475 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: to him on the road. He'd tried crystals, meditation and 476 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: other alternative remedies. They weren't working. He eventually left the tour, 477 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: left the tour and he called me and he said, 478 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to do this anymore. He said, 479 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: I'm too old. I don't want to be the dancer anymore. 480 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: I want to come home. Tim was still only thirty one. 481 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: He went to the doctor and they did an indoscap. 482 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: He had a very light case of pneumacist this pneumonia, 483 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: which was one of the ways that they diagnosed aids 484 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: at the time. And I said, okay, well, we'll take 485 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: it a step at a time. But we essentially knew 486 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: that it was a death sentence. The question was just 487 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: how long we hoped for some type of miraculous cure. 488 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: We hoped something would happen, As with so many terminal conditions, 489 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: though Tim's illness didn't move in a straight line. By December, 490 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: he was experiencing an upswing. On Christmas Eve that year, 491 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: he and Norman, underneath their Christmas tree in their West 492 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: Hollywood apartment, take turns opening Presence. What is it? It's 493 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: a book from from Norma, the Great Towns of California, 494 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: Oh great, Oh, the best American short Stories more Slacks. 495 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: I don't want to sentimentalize it, and I don't want 496 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: to romanticize it, but it was a wonderful period of time. 497 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: It sounds counterintuitive to say that, but it was a 498 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: wonderful period of time because we were so deeply connected 499 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: at that point. The next morning they celebrate at a 500 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: friend's home. Tim teaches the friends three daughters a dance. Okay, there, 501 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: but I have to say, the girls don't seem all 502 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: that focused, and I kind of want to jump into 503 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,919 Speaker 1: the video tape and tell them you're getting a free 504 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: dance lesson from the original broad White. Mr Mustapholes. Pull 505 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: it together. Okay, I'm back now. Not long after that Christmas, 506 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: Tim and Norman took a road trip. We drove across 507 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: the Southwest and we went to the Grand Canyon and 508 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: he went out on this rock. It was very precarious. 509 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, please, don't go out so far. 510 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: I don't go out so far. And he went out 511 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: on the end of this rock and did this pirouet. 512 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: But after returning to Los Angeles and especially virulent case 513 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: of pneumonia sent Tim to the hospital. It was at 514 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: that point I said, we have to tell your parents, 515 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: we have to let them know. And his mother immediately 516 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: flew out. She was this wonderful Italian woman who was 517 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,760 Speaker 1: a wonderful cook. And took care of us. Tim's parents, 518 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,240 Speaker 1: Richard and Rosemary, stayed at a motel nearby. Tim's father, 519 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: Richard Schnell, was still working as a technical writer for Motorola. 520 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: Rosemary Schnell was a homemaker. Tim was their only child. 521 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: When he gave his parents the news about his diagnosis. 522 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: Do you think that his mother suspected in any way 523 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: they knew something was up? They couldn't have been better 524 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: though in their response. They were lovely people, and I 525 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: feel enormous gratitude to them. They accepted me, they loved me. 526 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: They remained close to me for the rest of their lives. 527 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: So many people during that period of time did not 528 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: have the support of their parents. For many people in 529 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: the theater, it was their chosen family, not their biological one, 530 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: that rallied around them. The community had to help themselves. 531 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: Women like bi orch Lee, who had grown up performing 532 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: with so many gay men who were like brothers to her, 533 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: played a special role. He became angels when we started 534 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: hearing about all of these people. We started taking care 535 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: of them, just being with them to go to get 536 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: their medicine or to feed them, helping them. They because 537 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 1: people were afraid these were our friends, and so we 538 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 1: didn't have any fear. My best friends all died of AIDS. 539 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 1: Most of my closest male friends that I met doing 540 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,479 Speaker 1: Guys and Dolls and Pearly and the Whiz and so forth, 541 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: they all died. They all died. This is can Paige again. 542 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: It was devastating, and many many other friends who to 543 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: bury degree. Some went home just disappeared. Others had no 544 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 1: home to go to because their families rejected them. Some 545 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 1: of us as friend group at that time, which is 546 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,720 Speaker 1: something else I'll always treasure those of us who gathered 547 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: and rallied and supported each other, and if someone fell ill, 548 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: you just gathered around them and did whatever you needed 549 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: to do, including burial. Burial became a terrible challenge for 550 00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: the bereaved. Early on in Manhattan, only one funeral home, 551 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: Reddens on Fourteenth Street, was willing to accept the remains 552 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: of the victims of AIDS. Now, it's hard to know 553 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: how many people died during the early years of the epidemic. Families, churches, 554 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,359 Speaker 1: hospitals often lied about the cause of death. That's how 555 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: deep the stigma was. And as David France, author of 556 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: How to Survive a Plague, has reported some gay men, 557 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: when they detected a lesion or another symptom of infection, 558 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: would kill themselves. Many of the dead ended up in 559 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: unmarked Potter's fields like Heart Island off the Bronx, the 560 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: final resting place for the ostracized and abandoned. When Tim 561 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: Scott wasn't in the hospital for an infection, he was 562 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: at home. Betty Buckley was just down the street. I 563 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: don't remember that. I that I was as supportive as 564 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: I aspired to be. There wasn't a lot I could do. Yeah, 565 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: I remember finding this puppy, this beautiful little ducks and 566 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: puppy that I thought would be great to give to Tim. 567 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: I gave him this puppy and he didn't want a puppy, 568 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 1: so I was I thought I was doing something to 569 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: make him feel, you know, really comforted and engaged. But 570 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: it was a wrong choice. I don't know. He had 571 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: lost a lot of weight, but I didn't see that. 572 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: I didn't see that at the time. While I was 573 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: there with him, he was just the person I loved, 574 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: and I never really took in the fact that he 575 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: was vanishing right before my eyes. Finally, on Halloween, while 576 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 1: Norman was driving him home from his latest hospital visit 577 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: for pneumonia. Tim made an announcement and he said, that's it. 578 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to go back to the hospital again. 579 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: Tim would spend his remaining days at home. I've always 580 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: felt that there was a beautiful symmetry to the relationship 581 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: that Tim and I had. We were together for five years, 582 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: and during the first two and a half years, I 583 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,760 Speaker 1: would say that he was the one who was taking 584 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,280 Speaker 1: care of me. He was the one that was helping 585 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: me come into my own and during the second too 586 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 1: and a half years of our relationship, I became the caretaker. 587 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: During those weeks, Norman rarely left Tim side. If you're 588 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 1: going to go through some major life trial, you would 589 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: want to go through with my brother, Norman. It was 590 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: incredibly admirable and inspiring watching him be there for this 591 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: person that he loved so much. In the middle of 592 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,720 Speaker 1: one night, Norman woke up to find Tim sitting bolt 593 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 1: upright in bed, wide awake, staring out into the distance, 594 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: and I said, what's going on. He said nothing. He said, 595 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to measure where we are relative to 596 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 1: that space out there. And I said, well, what space 597 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: you're talking about? And he said, Oh, it's not anything 598 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: I could explain to you. It's just a lot more 599 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,320 Speaker 1: than we know. And I said, well, I'm sure that 600 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: that's so. And he said, so are you ready for 601 00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: your big test? And I said, well, I really know 602 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: what you mean by that, but I guess I'm as 603 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: ready as I ever will be. And he said, okay, 604 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: we'll go back to sleep, and he patted me on 605 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 1: the arm and I went back to sleep. And then 606 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: when I woke up, he was in a coma and 607 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: he never woke up again. That was the last time 608 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 1: I ever spoke to him. As difficult as that period 609 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: of time was, it was also extraordinary. I felt deeply 610 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: loved by him, and I deeply loved him. And it's funny, 611 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: you know, you don't think about these things for a 612 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 1: long time, and then you talk about them and suddenly 613 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: the emotion comes back over you again. What do you 614 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: think he meant by are you ready for your big test? 615 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 1: Are you ready to be on your own? Are you 616 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 1: ready to except that you have to let go of me? 617 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: Who knows? You know? I mean he was also on 618 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: pain killers. You know, there's there's all kinds of possibilities 619 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 1: that maybe he was just hallucinating, but at least he 620 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: was hallucinating in a particularly profound poetic way. Tim's parents 621 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,839 Speaker 1: and friends gathered and took visuals as he remained comatose 622 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: for about ten days. It was Norman who was with 623 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: Tim during his final moments. He took his last breath, 624 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: I could see like his eyes, his eyes were very blue, 625 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, there was just this 626 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: point of life, that swimp. It was almost like I 627 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,839 Speaker 1: saw the life force leave him. And he died at 628 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: six thirty in the morning on February Is it for 629 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,719 Speaker 1: gay men your age particularly difficult that a lot of 630 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: your contemporaries are no longer with us? Died many years ago? Kin, 631 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 1: Paige and I were sitting together sometime years after Timid died, 632 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 1: and I said, Uh, where's all the game in my age? 633 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: And Kin said to me, Norman, they all died. Were 634 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: a small number of survivors, the people our age, they're gone. 635 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,879 Speaker 1: It really hit me like a ton of bricks when 636 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 1: he said that four from the original Broadway cast of 637 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: Cats died from aids. Tim was thirty two, Stephen Guelfer 638 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:24,239 Speaker 1: was thirty nine. Read Jones, who was wonderful in the 639 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: role of Skimble, Shanks was thirty five and Renee Clemente 640 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:33,280 Speaker 1: was thirty eight. As a successful TV director of popular 641 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,440 Speaker 1: shows featuring picture perfect teens and people in their twenties, 642 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 1: Norman Buckley regularly works with young people who have little 643 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,839 Speaker 1: knowledge of the outbreak of the AIDS crisis. It's hard 644 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,960 Speaker 1: to explain to the younger generations just what a hollacious 645 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,600 Speaker 1: period of time that was in terms of the loss. 646 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: I'm very aware that when I talk about my experiences, 647 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,880 Speaker 1: that people can only understand certain things when they've experienced 648 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 1: those things themselves, and I have compassion for that, so 649 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,719 Speaker 1: I try to just be patient. Ken Paige has a 650 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: tougher message for younger generations. What I want to say 651 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: to them is, don't be stupid. It's not gone. There's 652 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,000 Speaker 1: just ways of handling it. Don't be cavalier. Don't take 653 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 1: it for granted that you're well and you're gonna be well, 654 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:26,920 Speaker 1: and there's a pill and as this is that you 655 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 1: can do anything you want. Don't be stupid. People paid 656 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 1: for what you know. People paid for the cocktails and 657 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 1: the pills and the things that you have that make 658 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 1: you able to not worry about how you have sex. 659 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,320 Speaker 1: Someone paid literally their lives for that. Don't forget that. 660 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: Never forget. When Cats returned to Broadway in ken Paige 661 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,319 Speaker 1: was in the audience on opening night, but for him 662 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't as much a revival as it was a remembrance. 663 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: M I went to the opening night. Rosie O'Donnell was 664 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 1: sitting there to night left, and I said, oh god, 665 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,880 Speaker 1: she goes. What's it like for you, she asked me. 666 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: I said, I just see ghosts. I said, there's so 667 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,440 Speaker 1: many people up there with the makeup and all. It 668 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 1: was pretty much the same. I said, I see Renee Clamente, 669 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: I see Read Jones, I see Tim Scott, I see 670 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: Stephen Guelfer right there in front of me on the stage. 671 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,320 Speaker 1: I was happy they were doing it, and I supported 672 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: the revival and on no no, But it was also 673 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: very difficult to sit and watch because you couldn't not 674 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: go through the memory. Tim Scott was cremated. For his 675 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,279 Speaker 1: final resting place, Tim's parents and Norman decided on that 676 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,800 Speaker 1: very spot in Arizona where Tim had once pirouetted, and 677 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 1: so we went out to the Grand Canyon, the five 678 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 1: or six of us, and we went out on the 679 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,720 Speaker 1: end of that rock, which in retrospect is totally crazy, 680 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: is uh. I look at pictures of it now and 681 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,000 Speaker 1: I think, oh my god, we can have all fallen 682 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 1: off and joined him with this episode. I wanted to 683 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,520 Speaker 1: pay tribute to all those artists whose names didn't make 684 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,520 Speaker 1: headlines when they died, and so I wrote to Tom Viola, 685 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: the head of Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS. It's one 686 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,280 Speaker 1: of the oldest and largest groups raising money to support 687 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,880 Speaker 1: artists living with HIV AIDS. I wanted to know what 688 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 1: he might have to say about Tim Scott. I didn't 689 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: know Tim Scott well, he wrote, but with Cats being 690 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,879 Speaker 1: such a smash hit when it opened, and Tim being 691 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,759 Speaker 1: so blazing hot as the original Mr Mustopheles, he was 692 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,320 Speaker 1: one of the eighties most beautiful and popular Broadway dancers. 693 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,759 Speaker 1: Plus he was a very sweet guy. Tim's passing from 694 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,440 Speaker 1: AIDS was truly one of the deaths that galvanized to 695 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,760 Speaker 1: the community into the very early efforts to do something 696 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 1: that culminated in the founding of Equity Fights AIDS and 697 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 1: Broadway Cares. Will let Ken Page the wise old deuteronomy 698 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,239 Speaker 1: of Cats have the final word. Those of us who 699 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,360 Speaker 1: have survived aids this that the other even whatever, just age. 700 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,279 Speaker 1: If we don't tell the story, who does? Because you 701 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 1: can only tell it if you were there. And if 702 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,440 Speaker 1: we are not responsible in telling it and passing it 703 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: on when people ask like you have, then it dies 704 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,800 Speaker 1: literally and it's too valuable a story, whether it's in 705 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,680 Speaker 1: one person named Tim Scott or in any of the 706 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,240 Speaker 1: number of people we named from cats, or the greater 707 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,439 Speaker 1: number that we're in the theater New York at the time, 708 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 1: or the even greater number that was the world population 709 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,520 Speaker 1: that we lost. We who have survived have to tell 710 00:47:46,600 --> 00:48:01,720 Speaker 1: the story. I hope you've enjoyed seas and three of Mobituaries. 711 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: If you were with us the first two seasons, thanks 712 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,680 Speaker 1: for sticking around. If you haven't heard our previous seasons, 713 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,040 Speaker 1: I hope you'll do a little delving. Either way, feel 714 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,399 Speaker 1: free to spread the word about mobids me. I ask 715 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,120 Speaker 1: you to please rate and review this podcast. You can 716 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,799 Speaker 1: also follow Mobituaries on Facebook and Instagram, and you can 717 00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:26,200 Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at morocco and check out Mobituaries. 718 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 1: Great Lives Worth Reliving the New York Times best selling book, 719 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,279 Speaker 1: now available in paperback and audiobook. It includes plenty of 720 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: stories not in the podcast. This episode of Mobituaries was 721 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:44,240 Speaker 1: produced by Francisco Robina. Our team of producers also includes 722 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:49,800 Speaker 1: Aaron Shrink, Wilco, Martinezcaceto, and me Morocca. It was edited 723 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: by Moral Wolves and engineered by Josh Hahn, with fact 724 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,880 Speaker 1: checking by Naomi bar Our production company is Neon Houm Media. 725 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,759 Speaker 1: Our archival produce sir is Jamie Benson. Our theme music 726 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,960 Speaker 1: is written by Daniel Hart. Indispensable support from Craig Swaggler, 727 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 1: Dustin Gervais, Alan Pang, Reggie Basio and everyone at CBS 728 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:18,439 Speaker 1: News Radio. Special thanks to David France, Tom Biola, Bill 729 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:24,440 Speaker 1: Keith Richard, j Alexander, Megan Marcus, Molly Raleigh, Steven Spanbauer, 730 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:29,920 Speaker 1: and Alberto Robina. The Invincible. Aaron Shrank is our senior producer. 731 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:35,360 Speaker 1: Executive producers for Mobituaries include Steve Raizys and Morocca. The 732 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,720 Speaker 1: series is created by Yours Truly and as always, thanks 733 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,800 Speaker 1: to Rant Morrison and John carp for helping breathe life 734 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:45,880 Speaker 1: into Mobituaries