1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: On this episode of Each World, I think one of 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: the great challenges as we consider our national debt of 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: thirty one trillion dollars, is how to rain spending back 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: in across all federal agencies, manage the overall tax structure 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: so that we're creating jobs and supporting a strong economy 6 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: through supply side ideals. We need to work towards getting 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: to a balanced budget, as I once did as Speaker 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: of the House for four consecutive years, the only time 9 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: in our lifetime. But in order to do that, we 10 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: need to start making choices about taxes and spending. And look, 11 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,279 Speaker 1: in addition to that, we have to recognize that a 12 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: great deal of government has to be modernized, that in fact, 13 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: it's not just about money, it's about what the money buys, 14 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: how it's spent, how much waste there is, to what 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: degree the bureaucracies are inherently inefficient. And in that sense, 16 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: every government agency has a challenge of modernization, and the 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: agency with the most complex challenge is the Defense Department. 18 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: That's why I wanted to talk about how we could 19 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: modernize the Defense Department and the federal government. And as 20 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: a result of that process, I believe we'll get both 21 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: a better defense system and a less expensive defense pist. 22 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: The person I'm about to introduce is a real expert. 23 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: She's been right on the firing lines. And that's Lisa Hirschman. 24 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: She is the former Chief Management Officer for the US 25 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: Department of Defense from twenty eighteen through twenty twenty one. 26 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: At DoD, she had direct budgetary management oversight of a 27 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty eight billion dollars budget and one 28 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty two thousand employees of the twenty eight 29 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: defense agencies and field activities. She directed the Armed Service 30 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: as secretaries and the Joint chiefs of Staff with respect 31 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: to business transformation and reform, leading the department and achieving 32 00:01:48,440 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: a record thirty seven billion dollars in savings for operational reforms. Lisa, Welcome, 33 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: and thank you for joining me in news world. Mister speaker. 34 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be with you, and I'm so 35 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: excited that you have taken on this charge because this 36 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: is a very important topic. I think it's important both 37 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: in terms of money, but also in terms of keeping 38 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: up with China. I mean, if we have a slow, cumbersome, 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: inefficient bureaucracy, the Chinese are eventually just simply going to 40 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: pull away and be able to dominate US. So I 41 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: think what you've done and what you're working on is 42 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: central to our national survival, both in military terms and 43 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: in fiscal terms. But I want to start by talking 44 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: about budget numbers just so people understand the enormous scale 45 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: of what you and I are talking about. The fiscal 46 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: year twenty twenty three Department of Defense Appropriations Act provides 47 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: seven hundred and ninety seven point seven billion dollars in 48 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: discretionary spending, an increase of sixty nine point three billion 49 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: above fiscal year twenty twenty two. In addition, the package 50 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: includes twenty seven point nine billion as part of the 51 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: fourth Ukraine Supplemental and one hundred and six point two 52 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: million to repair a Navy, Army Reserve and Army National 53 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: Guard facilities in Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Puerto Rico in Virginia. 54 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: There were damaged by Hurricanes Ian and Fiona. The military 55 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: personnel cost one hundred and seventy two point seven billion dollars, 56 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: operations and maintenance costs two hundred and seventy eight point 57 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: one billion. Procurement is one hundred and sixty two point 58 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: two billion, Research, development, test and evaluation is one hundred 59 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: and thirty six point seven billion, Management funds are one 60 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: point seven billion, and other Department of Defense programs total 61 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: about forty one point eight point When you were looking 62 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: at all that, weren't you almost overwhelmed? It was hard 63 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: to get your head wrapped around those kind of numbers. 64 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: And when I had first started, someone put it in 65 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: context for me, which was very helpful at the time. 66 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: And this is twenty eighteen reference, the Department of Defense 67 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: had the nineteen largest economy in the world, so as 68 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: equivalent to Belgium, So walking in obviously scale mattered. But 69 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: one thing that was commonly misunderstood is DD kept saying 70 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: he can't comparius to any other company. And while that's true, 71 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: portions of it can be compared to other companies and 72 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: the same type of processes apply. And that's why private 73 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: sector comparisons, benchmarking, and even use of an implementation of 74 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: best practices is absolutely appropriate to reform and modernize the department. 75 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: Given that scale, what was your background? How did you 76 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: end up being prepared to look at something on this scale? 77 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: Great question from what I understand and looking at the History. 78 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: Congress spent about fifteen years trying to develop and implement 79 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: this role, and I'll tell you what they did incredibly 80 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: well is they looked at the level of authority that 81 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: was necessary for the role to be successful, and they 82 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: made it the number three position in the department, meaning 83 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: for business operations and transformation purposes, the role could overrule 84 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: Secretary of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Chairman of the 85 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: Joint Staff, etc. So they put the authority in place. Now, 86 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: the requirements were unique as well in that they required 87 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: the person filling the position to have a minimum of 88 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: seven years of experience in large scale reform, specifically from 89 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: the private sector. So they were conscientious and deliberate about saying, 90 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: I don't want anybody in here with government thinking and 91 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: fully understanding and only accustomed to the way government approaches 92 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: reform and modernization. They absolutely wanted an injection of private 93 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: sector practices. And that's how I spent my career in 94 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:02,559 Speaker 1: the private sector and time mostly in operations, but also 95 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: in the transformation world. I worked in the tech sector 96 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: and for one tech company, I ran transformation in seventy 97 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: two countries, and it was the basis of my book Faster, 98 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: Cheaper Better that talks about scaling and transformation and how 99 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: to modernize your organization. When you wrote Faster, Cheaper Better, 100 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: did you have any notion of applying it to the government. 101 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: Not at the time, although I did have some engagement 102 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: with portions of the Army and the portions of the 103 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: Defense Logistics Agency because it was recommended to them to 104 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: use my book to prepare for audit and looking at 105 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: their processes in their business systems. Differently, so, some of 106 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: the consulting firms were recommending they use my book and 107 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: as a result they would reach out on occasion for 108 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: some engagement and training of their senior executives. I spend 109 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: about ninety hours and a tutorial with Edwards Deming a 110 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: long time ago. As you know, Deming had was in 111 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: the sense the original pioneer of quality work and the 112 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: award in Japan for the best managed companies, the Demi Wood. 113 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: How would your work compare and to what doing we are? 114 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: There a parallel in the search for doing things right 115 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: the first time. There are a lot of synergies surrounding 116 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: what doctor Deming had written about and made a career 117 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: of in that you want to look at outcomes and 118 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: design your organization around, not around siloed departments that you 119 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: see on an org chart, but look more across horizontally 120 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: end to end and look at how work flows and 121 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: how you accomplish an outcome. And so starting with that 122 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: outcome and working backwards and then looking at how do 123 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: you inspect it, review it, etc. Along the way to 124 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: ensure and remove the risk from having an adverse outcome 125 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: and actually achieving the outcome that you'd like. So certainly, 126 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: and I spent a lot of my career also in 127 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: the quality arena when I was first starting out, so 128 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: very familiar with the practices, and so there are a 129 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: lot of synergies and a lot of his principles, along 130 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: with folks like Peter Drucker that are used for a 131 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: wholesale review of management practices. I urge every group I 132 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: talked to to buy Drucker's The Effective Executive. Buy it 133 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: and paperback, underline it, go back and reread it regularly 134 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: from your standpoint. Some day on the road, you may 135 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: be in that same league and will be reading your 136 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: book as the basic introduction because you've had a wild 137 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: range of experiences and the last really big one you're literally, 138 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: we're dealing with seventy two different countries. You have some 139 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: idea of complexity, not only complexity, but what's necessary to 140 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: scale properly, but also the nuances of culture and how 141 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: that plays a role in successful implementation and an adoption. 142 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: Looking at many of the different countries in which I 143 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: had the privilege to work a very different approaches to 144 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: business and taking that into consideration was enormously helpful towards 145 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: achieving great outcomes. There should never be a cookie cutter template. 146 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: You should look at the culture of the organization, their 147 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: capacity for change, etc. And that actually helps you with 148 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: your approach and your implementation. The Pentagon is not an 149 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: eager place to have a chief management officer who has 150 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: power over the career uniforms. When you agreed to take it, 151 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: you became the highest ranking woman ever confirmed by the 152 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: US Senate to a Pentagon position, and during your work 153 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: you received the highest civilian honor, a ordered by the 154 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: Defense Department. That's a a remarkable achievement. What was your 155 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: first reaction when you were approached about going to the 156 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: Pentagon A bit of disbelief. So when I got the call, 157 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: as many people do, and say I'm calling from the 158 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: White House. Your first reaction is sure you are. So 159 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: it was a little bit overwhelming, but very exciting. I 160 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: never saw myself in government, but I always thought, if 161 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: there's a way to serve my country by using my 162 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: background and my experiences, especially in business operations, I would 163 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: be more than honored to have the opportunity to do that. 164 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: And when we were applying, my husband was actually he's 165 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: the one that's spent time in government most of his career, 166 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: and he said to me, if I find a role 167 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: for you in government, would you consider taking it. And 168 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: I said, I'd be happy to under one condition, and 169 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: that is no name dropping about who we know. I said, 170 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: and this is a non negotiable to get there on 171 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: my own merits and my own accomplishments. So my credentials, 172 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: my resume, etc. Were entered into the website, just like 173 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: probably thousands of other people. And I thought, if it's 174 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,479 Speaker 1: meant to happen, and if I truly do meet the requirements, 175 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: then I trust that it will happen. And that's exactly 176 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: what happened. That's amazing. Now I'm curious again. As a 177 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: former congressman, it's clear to me that the Congress was 178 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: extraordinarily frustrated with the inability of the Pentagon to fix itself, 179 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: and so they actually grew this role into being the 180 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: third ranking official at DoD. In a sense, you have 181 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: the authority to overrule the secretaries of the Army, Navy, 182 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: Air Force, the chair of the Joint Chiefs. I assume 183 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: now the Space Force would be included. That's an enormously 184 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: powerful role and must at one level, I would think, 185 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: lead to an extraordinary resistance by the bureaucracy. It did, 186 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: and a few things that I learned, and Congress, by 187 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: the way, did this with some study. They had tried 188 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: the role as a deputy Chief Management Officer, and that 189 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: was a ten year initiative that did not produce much 190 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: in the way of results. And I give them credit 191 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: for trying, and I also give them enormous credit for 192 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: looking at what worked and what didn't work and trying 193 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: to change it. And that role did not have the 194 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: level of authority necessary to overrule and make some tough 195 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: decisions and implement some things that were very difficult. And 196 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: by the way, those who held those positions were actually 197 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: quite supportive, and any time that there was a disagreement, 198 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: I was reluctant to use I'm sorry, but I'm overruling you. 199 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: I usually would sit down with them and say, how 200 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: do you get to yes? And I found them quite receptive. 201 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: Where I found the greatest amount of pushback was more 202 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: in the rank and file and those that fell that 203 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: reform was going to threaten budgets, head count, etc. And 204 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 1: I learned a hard way that using the term reform 205 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: is incredibly off putting in government, especially at the Department 206 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: of Defense. I was interested in modernizing, upgrading the systems 207 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: and how we conducted business. But when the word reform 208 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: is used at DoD, there is only one word that 209 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: comes to mind, and that's cuts. So the threat was 210 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: about what am I going to lose rather than what 211 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: can we do better? Differently? How do we improve? And 212 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: that was a very very difficult hurdle to overcome. The 213 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: second year, back was turned. They got the Congress to 214 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: abolish the job they did. There were quite a few 215 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: folks internally that lobbied against it. I'm sure this will 216 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: be no shock to you, but some of the government 217 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: agencies are wrought with politics, and some people really were 218 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: threatened by the role, threatened by either the level of 219 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: authority or the perception that cuts were coming, and several 220 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: felt that part of their domain was taken away from 221 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: them to create this role, and there was a lot 222 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: of the unknown, and that level of uncertainty was incredibly 223 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: uncomfortable for folks. Were we making changes, you bet? Were 224 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: we doing so thoughtfully? Absolutely? In fact, the day I 225 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: left the role, as you mentioned, we did save thirty 226 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: seven billion dollars, there was another six point two billion 227 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: waiting for signature to be implemented. That six point two 228 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: billion didn't touch Army, Navier, Air Force. It all came 229 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: from the fourth Estate, all the agencies and field activities, 230 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: and four point nine billion of that didn't include a 231 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: single cut. It was simply modernizing, reducing duplication, etc. But 232 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: the perceptions were so strong that it was a threat. 233 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: And it wasn't just the people in the building. There 234 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: were others. I'd give you a great example when we 235 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: looked at commissaries and exchanges. For example, they manage one 236 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: point four million item numbers. Man just by comparison, Costco 237 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: manages eight thousand, but the commissaries have one point four million, 238 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: and of that number, one million of those items don't 239 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: produce more than a thousand dollars of revenue per year. 240 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: So when you're carrying twenty plus brands of apple juice 241 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: and only seven of them produce ninety six percent of 242 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: the revenue, certainly you're looking to reduce the number of 243 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: brands that you're carrying. Well, that infuriates the apple juice producers, 244 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: and they of course have their lobbying arm, and they 245 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: go to their members of Congress, and suddenly we have 246 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: to put a stop to it. So I won't say 247 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: it was just the people in the building. It was 248 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: the supply chain and others that may have been affected 249 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: that were really uncomfortable with the changes that we were promoting. 250 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: I'm familiar with the obligation to have extraordinary congressional pressure 251 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: to get any kind of serious changes. In the eighteen nineties, 252 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: the Navy committees of both the House and Senate were 253 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: chaired by people from Maine, and all of the major 254 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: Navy repairs took place in Maine. And the term sosments 255 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: Save our Ship because they would keep ships in doc 256 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: to work on for years and years and years, and 257 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: the Navy had a fairly big budget, probably the thirteenth 258 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: or fourteenth most effective Navy in the world because they 259 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: couldn't modernize. And Bessemer Steel came along with Theodore Roosevelt 260 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: and Henry Cabot Lodge and created the Navy League and 261 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: fought for modernization. In a decade later, we had a 262 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: steel Navy that did not need to go to Maine 263 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: for long periods of reform. It was a huge fight. Similarly, 264 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: when we pass Goldwater Nickels, which I participated in, every 265 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 1: active four star was opposed to it. President Reagan was 266 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: opposed to it, and Secretary Weinberger was opposed to it. 267 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: And today virtually everybody in the military will tell you 268 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: that jointness coming out of Goldwater Nikels was central to 269 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: how we operate. So my hunch is that to modernize 270 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: the Pentagon will require Congress deciding how to impose modernity 271 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: in a way that will initially be resisted, and then 272 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: later people will look at and say, well, of course 273 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: that's what we have to do. But you had your 274 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: own experiences where you looked at, how do we in 275 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: a sense quit crippling ourselves. Because, for example, the way 276 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: the Pentagon asked for people to bid, I had the 277 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: largest manufacturer of the trucks that are used to carry 278 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: baggaged airplanes they sold all over the world. Aeroflot platform 279 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: they've sold over the world. They would not bid on 280 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: air Force contracts because they thought that they would be 281 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 1: corrupted by the procedures and lose their cutting edge. And 282 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: they said, we could sell four times as many baggage 283 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: carts per dollar as the Air Force is currently buy, 284 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: but we can't match all of the different requirements the 285 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: air forces built in I was just an example of this. 286 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,479 Speaker 1: You want to talk to us for a little bit 287 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: about the kind of changes you did that led to 288 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 1: a better, more effective American defense system. First of all, 289 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: we looked at duplication, and the amount of duplication add 290 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: is really quite staggering. For instance, there are sixty four 291 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: CIOs and this again, let me just remind your audience 292 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: that this is numbers from when I was there and 293 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: I left two years ago, so things may have changed, 294 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: but they had sixty four CIOs, three hundred and fifty 295 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: five separate cloud initiatives. The procurement alone is a hot 296 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: bet of opportunity for reform. There are forty five thousand 297 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: contracting officers and twenty five hundred contracting offices. So what 298 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: that means is you don't have a central repository where 299 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: all of your contracts are managed, kept and available for 300 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: people to view. As a result, we ended up with 301 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: eighteen unique contracts to purchase two by fours from two vendors. 302 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: We were buying batteries that you could go down to 303 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: your local pharmacy, grocery stored hardware store and buy them, 304 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: and we have multiple contracts for that same battery that 305 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: ranged in unit price from thirteen cents to twenty five 306 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: dollars per battery. I mentioned commissaries and changes. One of 307 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: the biggest misses that we had there was an opportunity 308 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:11,719 Speaker 1: to implement online procurement where you could shop online and 309 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: then go to the commissary and pick up your items, 310 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: which was increasing the basket value from approximately sixty eight 311 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: to sixty nine dollars to just south of four hundred dollars. 312 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: So the opportunities were there, but we were very limited 313 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: in what we were able to do. However, we did 314 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: look at procurement and reducing the duplication and that's what 315 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: led us to the thirty seven billion dollars. And I 316 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: will say that and this was very important to me 317 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: that we had validated that every dime that was saved 318 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: went to higher priorities such as hypersonic missile research. We 319 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: were on a hundred billion dollars in five year pace 320 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: of savings. We also looked at regulations and we were 321 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: able to reduce our eliminate or modify over two hundred 322 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: and forty seven. So that's taking some of the handcuffs 323 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,479 Speaker 1: off and becoming a little bit easier to do business with. 324 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: So we looked at procarement and along with all of 325 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: these changes, by the way we were training the people internally, 326 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: we were investing in the resources so that they had 327 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: the skills and the tools to equip them to manage differently. 328 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: Let me give you an example. In the contracts alone, 329 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: we discovered as we dug into the details of contracts 330 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: that much of our pricing was based on a first 331 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: piece approval. So when the first piece comes off the line, 332 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: which of course you can imagine would require a tremendous 333 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: amount of inspection, we would bake that cost into the 334 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: contract rather than looking at a full scale production of 335 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: that piece, which would lower the cost dramatically. That's the 336 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: level of detail that we were training people to look 337 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: at when negotiating contracts and where there was wiggle room. 338 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: Certainly we didn't want to deny anyone a fair profit, 339 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: but we would also find that in certain vehicles, for instance, 340 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: all the major components were properly priced, and some of 341 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: the accessory components were a forty percent markup. So these 342 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: are the things that we taught people. We taught them 343 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: how to renegotiate, and we renegotiated contracts that were not 344 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: only saving money, but we were also looking at time savings. 345 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: One of the initiatives that I was so proud of 346 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: was that we were looking for next generation systems for 347 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: better battlefield view for our warfighter, and we were able 348 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: to shave somewhere between two and four years off of 349 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,719 Speaker 1: implementation times so that our warfighters were getting better tools 350 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: and equipment much earlier. We did simple things. We were 351 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: storing maps, and we were storing commodities such as batteries 352 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: and light bulbs, and we decided not to order those 353 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: on contract. We would order the batteries and light bulbs 354 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: or get them when we needed them through commodity procurement, 355 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: and we stopped housing maps, got rid of them, started 356 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: to print the map when we needed it on demand, 357 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: and we saved the equivalent of warehouse space equivalent to 358 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: the center of the Pentagon in the courtyard five of those, 359 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: and that warehouse space was them freed up for us 360 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: to bring important equipment out of the environment and protect 361 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: it for longer use. So hopefully that gives you a 362 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: little bit of smattering of what you're able to do. 363 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: There are two that I noticed I just have to 364 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: ask you about. One is that there's a southern military 365 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 1: base with twenty two contracts for cutting grass. Yes, that's correct. 366 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: Is that a small business initiative? No, that's having multiple 367 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,959 Speaker 1: people that have the authority to contract with those that 368 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: are grass mowing, and not necessarily having the view that 369 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: if I'm looking at a contract, I have no idea 370 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: that twenty one other ones exists. That's hysterical. Okay. Second, 371 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: you talked about an agency wide information technology system that 372 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,959 Speaker 1: under the DoD model would cost one point three billion 373 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: and take eighteen years, and a similar size company in 374 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: the private sector could do it for eight hundred and 375 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: three and a half years. It's actually an eight hundred 376 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 1: million Okay, it's still in the neighborhood of significantly less. 377 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: But the real kicker in that example is, can you 378 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: imagine implementing a modern IT system and you say it'll 379 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: be ready to go in eighteen years, that's only about 380 00:24:54,000 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 1: six cycles of it. Exactly. It's obsolete the day you 381 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: turn the switch on. And I honestly thought that someone 382 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: else made a typo when they presented that to me. 383 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: And I actually said to the agency, please don't present 384 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: this to the Secretary of Defense because I don't want 385 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: you to walk into a trap and get shot down. 386 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: And much to my chagrin, and this was coming about 387 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: when I was leaving office, they started phase one of 388 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: the implementation and funded one hundred million dollars to stand 389 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: up the program office. The other one I have to 390 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: ask you about because if this is true, I'm going 391 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: to get a copy. The Navy has a fifty four 392 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: page procurement document for a common pipe wrench you can 393 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: buy at home depot. That's correct. I want to get 394 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: a copy of it. I might be able to help 395 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: you out with that. I'm in the show and tell. 396 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: Here's what's really frustrating. The suppliers that wanted a bid 397 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: on that had a hard time finding the specs for 398 00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: the pipe wrench. It was riddled with packaging requirements and 399 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: the requirement to use sustaining materials. And I'm not saying 400 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: that those initiatives aren't laudable and noble and necessary, but 401 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: we end up taking something that you could literally go 402 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: down the street and buy, and we flood our requirements 403 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: to the point where you can't even find what is 404 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: it that they want us to bid on and what 405 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: are the specs because it is just immersed in all 406 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: of this other requirements, and it's grown over the years, 407 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: and nobody takes requirements away. They just keep adding on 408 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: and adding on, which also means you have the cost 409 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: of the staff who spent all that time writing the requirements. 410 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: Oh not only that, but then reporting on them. If 411 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: I was tempted to take a photograph of one year 412 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: worth of reports that I had to submit, it would 413 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: be taller than I am. And the amount of staff 414 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 1: work and time to do those reports generating a status 415 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: update on how we're doing on all these requirements is 416 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: stunning just studying. I know one department when I was 417 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: there that actually hired contractors to take care of all 418 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: the reporting requirements. I'm curious, as somebody who grew up 419 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: in the army, the commissaries actually provide less expensive food 420 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: than Costgo or Walmart. Certainly, I didn't go through all 421 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: of the costs, but from what I saw that, yes, 422 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: they were very favorably competitive with some of the neighboring locations. 423 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: They were. The other thing that I've been fascinated by. 424 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: We have been trying for years to get an audit 425 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: of the Pentagon. Apparently so far has been impossible. Why 426 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: is that so? I will say that this is from 427 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: a periphery view. I did not run the audit, but 428 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: I was involved in some of the report outs. I 429 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: was there when the attempts were made, and there was 430 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: lots of audit activity happening. It is so incredible complex 431 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: that I remember sitting in a report out of audit 432 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: findings and they talked about we could not locate buildings, 433 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: and I honestly thought that they were kidding. And when 434 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 1: I saw that no one in the room was grinning 435 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: except for me, I realized it. It's not the amount 436 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: of items that we buy, the amount of assets that 437 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: we own, and the fact that we don't have centralized 438 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: tracking systems and repositories to put all that and to 439 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: enter in all of that data makes it a very 440 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: very very complicated endeavor to do an audit. Let me 441 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: say first of all, I thank you as a citizen 442 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: for having been willing to go into the government and 443 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: for the intensity and the integrity you put into this. 444 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: And I really want to thank you for joining me 445 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: in news world. I look forward to working with you 446 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: to see if we can't find ways to modernize the 447 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: system so we both have a better ability to compete 448 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: with China and we have a less expensive system, just 449 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: because there's enough ways there that you can run a 450 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: better pentagon and a better military at lower costs. If 451 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: you modernize it, then you're a key person understanding it, 452 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: actually having done it, and I hope that you will 453 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: continue to be active. And I just want to thank 454 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: you for taking the time to help educate us well, 455 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: mister speaker, Thank you. It was an honor to serve 456 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: my country and I really enjoyed it. I learned a lot, 457 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: and thank you again for taking up this very important topic. 458 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: And I still hold out a great deal of hope 459 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: that we can make significant improvements. And I was delighted 460 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: to join you, so thank you for asking me. Thank 461 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: you to my guest Lisa Hirshman. You can read more 462 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: about cost saving measures and modernization on our show page 463 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: at newtsworld dot com. News World is produced by Gangwich 464 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: Sweet sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan, 465 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: O is Rebecca Hall, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 466 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. 467 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Gingwich three sixty. If 468 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple 469 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give 470 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about. 471 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of news World can sign up for 472 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: my three free weekly columns at gingwis sixty dot com 473 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is news World.