Speaker 1: Over the past couple of weeks, we have been talking
Speaker 1: about the novel Rebecca by Daphne Dumourier. It's a story
Speaker 1: about murder, obsession and finding out the person closest to
Speaker 1: you Harbor's and awful secret. Honestly, it already sounds like
Speaker 1: a Hitchcock movie, and so sure enough we're taking in
Speaker 1: some screen time this week with Alfred Hitchcock's film adaptation
Speaker 1: to talk about the charm of the Transatlantic accent and
Speaker 1: how the Master of Suspense diverged from the book when
Speaker 1: he like asked her to marry him. In the book,
Speaker 1: even though what he's saying is like really condescending and mean,
Speaker 1: I like infused it with a softness and like an
Speaker 1: ironic romantic nous. Where in the this movie he like
Speaker 1: is like shouting at her while he's getting in the
Speaker 1: shower and like asking me while he's in the other room. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's rushing his teeth and he says, I'm asking you
Speaker 1: to marry an you idiot. Okay. Welcome back to Popcorn
Speaker 1: Book Club. I'm Danish schwar joined as always by Jennifer Wright,
Speaker 1: Coaramadanqua Tantran and Melissa Hunter, and this week we are
Speaker 1: on screen time. That doesn't really roll off the tongue,
Speaker 1: but I'm committed to it. Uh, we're screen timing. I
Speaker 1: can't turn back. I'll have to figure out what the
Speaker 1: verb form of that is. We are doing end screen
Speaker 1: time about the nineties and forties Alfred Hitchcock adaptation of
Speaker 1: Rebecca in anticipation of the new Netflix adaptation, so we
Speaker 1: can be the intelligent people going into the Netflix adaptation
Speaker 1: comparing it both to the film and the Hitchcock version.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say you're unintelligent. If you didn't
Speaker 1: watch the other movie and also read the book, I
Speaker 1: think that you just don't have time for that. Yes,
Speaker 1: there were dinner parties. Right now, we would be the
Speaker 1: very obnoxious person. It's like, well, did you read the
Speaker 1: book and also did you watch the nine film. I
Speaker 1: would only have a dinner party that everyone did that.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. If you didn't, you would not be invited to.
Speaker 1: You have to do a quiz to get him. You
Speaker 1: have a freshman year reading comprehension quiz swirling wine. Jennifer,
Speaker 1: you were the one who sort of was a proponent
Speaker 1: of this book to begin with. Have you seen the
Speaker 1: original movie? I had seen me retinal movie. I had
Speaker 1: not seen it for many, many years, so I had
Speaker 1: forgotten that the movie diverges from the book in one
Speaker 1: very important regard, which is he does not shoot Rebecca
Speaker 1: in the movie. He pushes her and she like slits
Speaker 1: and dies. She hit her head very much not the
Speaker 1: same as shooting someone. It's like the Staircase documentary. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I read on Wikipedia, so who knows the
Speaker 1: sources that that was like a Hollywood produmption standard code thing,
Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like, well, he can't
Speaker 1: have shot his wife and gotten away with it, so
Speaker 1: he must have just covered up her accidental death and
Speaker 1: gotten way. That doesn't happen, especially not in the forties. Um,
Speaker 1: I think you lose a lot of the impact of
Speaker 1: the second missis de Winter's loyalty. Though if she doesn't
Speaker 1: stand with him when he is clearly committed cold blooded murder,
Speaker 1: it sort of makes it more of a love story
Speaker 1: if you can sort of get on board with this,
Speaker 1: like he was wrongfully. It's still bad what he did,
Speaker 1: but the movie tries to make it see much more
Speaker 1: like gone Girl, Like it was still bad, but yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't murder her In cold blood when thinking she
Speaker 1: was fucking pregnant. Like, that's a little bit different and
Speaker 1: it all. Yeah, and like Jennifer said, it also changes
Speaker 1: the color of the way the unnamed woman or second
Speaker 1: Missus de Winter stands by her man, you know, like
Speaker 1: doing it in that way is a bit more understandable
Speaker 1: and understandable for me. Seeing it on screen made me
Speaker 1: hate Maxim a lot more. Yeah, I found him weird,
Speaker 1: even though even though in the book he committed a murder.
Speaker 1: Just like, fundamentally, I found him more likable in this
Speaker 1: book then in the show. In the movie where he's
Speaker 1: played by Laurence, Yeah, that's wild. I had never seen
Speaker 1: Laurence Olivier out of black face before, so this is
Speaker 1: an experience for me. I'm joking. Obviously I have, but
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get that in there. I think
Speaker 1: my impression is I found him very unlikable because he's
Speaker 1: very mean and very snappy, and he sounds even snappier
Speaker 1: in a Transatlantic accent. He's like you that, what are
Speaker 1: you doing? Get over here? I thought he was perfect,
Speaker 1: Like from the book, I'm like, Maxim is a total
Speaker 1: asshole and speaks condescendingly and patronizing lee to the second
Speaker 1: Mrs de Winter, And when I saw how he was
Speaker 1: playing it Laurence Olivia, I was like, Okay, this is
Speaker 1: exactly how I pictured him. And he's even like more,
Speaker 1: he's not deady murdered baby anymore, not murder, he's not
Speaker 1: murder daddy's any um. But I actually I really liked
Speaker 1: the way he played it. So I'm like looking forward
Speaker 1: to seeing how you know, Armie Hammer does because I
Speaker 1: just don't think I can Can Army do a British accent?
Speaker 1: Do we think? I mean, I could think he's he's
Speaker 1: a dedicated actor. He's going to do the work to
Speaker 1: do the best British accent that he is capable of doing.
Speaker 1: I think we also overestimate like British actors are Americans
Speaker 1: constantly and then it's like an American doing a British accent.
Speaker 1: How But yeah, he's so charming that and warm he
Speaker 1: is such a warmth to him as an actor, and
Speaker 1: that I feel like it'll be interesting. I agree, but
Speaker 1: I agreed to and I feel like we're talking about
Speaker 1: this in the book episode that you know it is
Speaker 1: really interesting that like that it isn't a love story
Speaker 1: it's like the this young woman who is just like
Speaker 1: believes that she's in love, but it's against this very
Speaker 1: cold figure. And I liked seeing that cold figure personified
Speaker 1: because you're reminded it's so easy to like put a
Speaker 1: character onto maxim or like a personality or like a
Speaker 1: someone you fell in love with when you're young that
Speaker 1: was wrong, and I feel like seeing it, it's like, oh, no, girl, run. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like I think when he like asked her to marry
Speaker 1: him in the book, I imagined it with like even
Speaker 1: though what he's saying is like really condescending and mean,
Speaker 1: I like infused it with a softness and like an
Speaker 1: ironic romantic nous. Where in the this movie, he like
Speaker 1: is like shouting at her while he's getting in the
Speaker 1: shower and like asks her to marry while he's in
Speaker 1: the other room. Yeah, he's brushing his teeth and he says,
Speaker 1: I'm asking you to marry an you idiot. And I
Speaker 1: love how she just collapsed, like it's like, oh, the
Speaker 1: most romantic thing. I was very much into the denotation.
Speaker 1: I was like, these are the words he's saying, And
Speaker 1: I think for me, it's easier to look at it
Speaker 1: in a negative light and be like, no, this is
Speaker 1: bad in the writing um in the movie, obviously, it
Speaker 1: was also very objectively bad that I expected it to
Speaker 1: be that, because that's how I read it on the page.
Speaker 1: I was like, nobody should talk to somebody that they
Speaker 1: love this way. Although he never said that he loved her,
Speaker 1: He was just like, do you want to come here?
Speaker 1: You want to go there? And yet in the trailer
Speaker 1: for the Army Hammer one that line which is in
Speaker 1: the trailer, he's like lifting up her chin and gazing
Speaker 1: in her eyes. And here's what I hope happens in
Speaker 1: the movie. And this is just me being like, this
Speaker 1: is what I would do with it? Is it could
Speaker 1: be a real analog for for like an abusive relationship
Speaker 1: where at the beginning is love bombing and it is
Speaker 1: him saying I love you, I love you and being
Speaker 1: perfect and asking her to marry him very suddenly, Like
Speaker 1: that is all like really love bomby behavior from an abuser,
Speaker 1: And so I feel like that would be really interesting
Speaker 1: if it's all perfect on the trip and then when
Speaker 1: they get back he's this cold asshole who yells at
Speaker 1: her from the bathroom. That would be the vision, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I would I would be interested in seeing that version
Speaker 1: because that feels like the modern reason why you would
Speaker 1: do it to be like that. Mm hmm. I would
Speaker 1: be very interested in seeing how they frame the new movie,
Speaker 1: because I found the framing of this nineties one versus
Speaker 1: the book really interesting. We didn't get those first two
Speaker 1: chapters that I hated. We didn't get those at all,
Speaker 1: um which I actually was like, man, Jen was right.
Speaker 1: I kind of wish that I had that scene of seeing,
Speaker 1: like what happens after Mandalai's burned down, so j just
Speaker 1: like board and trapped in the media, just trapped in
Speaker 1: mediocre hotel for the rest of your lives. I wanted
Speaker 1: to see that at the end, though not at the beginning.
Speaker 1: I still wanted that, but I wanted to see, Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: they're not happy and Mrs dampers fucking one. But Karama,
Speaker 1: what if in the modern one, she's very unhappy and
Speaker 1: she it's a freeze frame and then it's a narrator,
Speaker 1: the narrator sing you're probably wondering how I got into
Speaker 1: the situation, and it cuts back with you like that
Speaker 1: that Melissa, that's that is screenwriter record scratching around. I
Speaker 1: think everything should star that way. Yeah, the other you
Speaker 1: see Rose on the door and she's like, you're probably wondering, okay,
Speaker 1: but actually and ironically, yes, I would actually love that.
Speaker 1: I would love to see Kate Winslett narrating the whole
Speaker 1: movie with the Titanic has only just sunk, so she's
Speaker 1: just she's only backtracking from like the last several days.
Speaker 1: While flow on the door, she's going insane, like from
Speaker 1: from being frozen in the water so cold, trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how this happened. The thing that concerns me
Speaker 1: about the new one that I liked about the nineties
Speaker 1: forties one is the age difference. Like Laurence Olivier looked
Speaker 1: much older than Joan Fonte, who like looked like a
Speaker 1: little wisp of a of a girl. She was very good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's really good at it. I mean. One of the
Speaker 1: things that worries me about the new ones is Lily
Speaker 1: James is so beautiful and she's five. They're both like five,
Speaker 1: they're the same age, and they're both in their mid thirties. Yea,
Speaker 1: Joe Fontaine at least seems like she is genuinely very
Speaker 1: insecure when she wears that dress that is just it
Speaker 1: looks really good in the picture in the magazine, but
Speaker 1: it does not look good on her, like human being. Um,
Speaker 1: it just feels like such a sweet, relatable moment, like
Speaker 1: you feel like, oh that poor Ladys would look good
Speaker 1: in a potato set, Like yeah, and then being the
Speaker 1: same age just disrupts, like one of the power differentials
Speaker 1: among which was I feel much more noticeable, like I
Speaker 1: was getting big Leonardo DiCaprio vibes when she was like,
Speaker 1: I wish I was thirty six, dressed in black satin
Speaker 1: and wearing a string of pearls, and he was like
Speaker 1: if I don't want I don't want that. He's like,
Speaker 1: don't ever grow up young, forever push you down the stairs. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like that. That is like Hollywood's version of a
Speaker 1: less tragic version of how the First Wife dies. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he pushed her, so that's better, right. He blacked out
Speaker 1: raged and then she he woke up and she was dead.
Speaker 1: She's still siling, you know, I mean, just black out
Speaker 1: sometimes in rage and then someone across from you is dead.
Speaker 1: You can't imagine. Yeah. I love the classic mean girl
Speaker 1: move that that Beatrice does when she's like I'm paraphrasing,
Speaker 1: but she says something like, I just love how you
Speaker 1: don't care how you look. He's great, just like I
Speaker 1: don't care how you look, it's great. I think she
Speaker 1: specifically said, I can tell by the way that you
Speaker 1: dressed that you don't care quit about what you wear.
Speaker 1: Good in Atlantic, Kama, Yeah, that was good. This is
Speaker 1: like the thing that I do for fun when I'm
Speaker 1: alone in my room. So I'm glad the whole world
Speaker 1: knows this now, Like I just love doing like mid
Speaker 1: Atlantic accents for fun. And one of my favorite things
Speaker 1: in the last season of BoJack Horsemen was Paget Brewster
Speaker 1: playing that pig that worked for the news and just
Speaker 1: was like always like oh and then this, and then
Speaker 1: we're gonna go here and we're gonna do that all
Speaker 1: of that. That's how great would it be if Army
Speaker 1: and Lily did mid Atlantic for this movie, just like
Speaker 1: without any like full commitment, that would be Harris shows up.
Speaker 1: It would be kind of dream of Katherine. Harris showed
Speaker 1: us Mrs Danvers, Mrs dan Verse, and the actor who
Speaker 1: played Mrs Danverse. She was amazing. She was Judith Anderson,
Speaker 1: Francis Margaret Anderson. I still I love the vibe. She
Speaker 1: didn't seem old, but she did sort of have that
Speaker 1: vibe of like in old times when you're now at
Speaker 1: your job, you're like sixteen, you're like, this is your job.
Speaker 1: You're now an old house mistress. That's her job forever.
Speaker 1: Like I think people just aged differently. And Jen, I
Speaker 1: think you were. I think you were the one that
Speaker 1: said that, like the lesbian vibes of movie get like
Speaker 1: really pumped up, get really pumped up in the book,
Speaker 1: and I was like excited for that. And it's that
Speaker 1: moment where she like makes the second Mrs de Winter
Speaker 1: look through the silk closet, yeah fingers, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: the whole like room in the West Wing scene, I
Speaker 1: literally wrote, I think I wrote Mrs Danver's for coat
Speaker 1: gayest ships a moment where she holds the fur coat
Speaker 1: up to her up to her face and rubs it
Speaker 1: on her cheek, and I was like, whoa, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no question had sex many times. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that room was crazy nice though. West wing, yeah beautiful,
Speaker 1: way better than the East Wing room objectively, and better
Speaker 1: than the West Wing of the White House. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like structurally, this is a great time for us to
Speaker 1: take a break. I think we should take a break
Speaker 1: right here. So we're back with Popcorn Book Club for
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. I do wonder if having this version
Speaker 1: for he just accidentally blacks out a number. Beca's dad
Speaker 1: takes away some of Mrs Danfrew's victory at the end.
Speaker 1: Like in the book, it really does feel like a
Speaker 1: victory of you killed this woman who was my daughter,
Speaker 1: slash lover. Now I will burn your house to the ground. Um.
Speaker 1: It feels a little more incomprehensible to me in the
Speaker 1: movie because they've just gotten through a big trial. Everybody's
Speaker 1: established well, nice, sweasy innocent, and it doesn't feel as
Speaker 1: it does to me in the book, like this a
Speaker 1: white man got away with murdering his wife, but Mrs
Speaker 1: Danverse handled that and she enacted justice. Because the movie
Speaker 1: sort of hedges it and makes you believe that he
Speaker 1: kind of didn't kill his wife. Yeah. Yeah, Because I
Speaker 1: was watching and remember reading the book, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: he killed his wife, Like very early as I was
Speaker 1: watching the movie, I was like, it's interesting, how I
Speaker 1: don't get that same vibe here. And then we got
Speaker 1: to the editor was like, oh, that's why. Because They
Speaker 1: literally don't want you to think he killed his wife.
Speaker 1: They just they're like, Nope, he didn't do it. He okay,
Speaker 1: I looked it up. Mrs Danvers at the time was
Speaker 1: played by Judith Anderson at age forty two at the
Speaker 1: time of shooting, so definitely more of a lover than
Speaker 1: a mom vibe one. I don't know. I did read
Speaker 1: that like David O. Selznick. It was so it was
Speaker 1: the first American movie that Hitchcock made, and um, and
Speaker 1: that he's like the first three of Hitgecock's movies were
Speaker 1: under David O. Selznick and they're kind of like known
Speaker 1: to be his weakest films and and it's because they
Speaker 1: fought a lot. And and one of the things that
Speaker 1: David O. Selznick wanted was at the end for the
Speaker 1: smoke to spell an R in the in the s
Speaker 1: and he was like, no, that's too that's too much
Speaker 1: by burning are the like linen or whatever. That's like
Speaker 1: the last American audiences are dumb. You got sell American audience.
Speaker 1: I'm here for it. Yes, yeah, I would have liked
Speaker 1: that spooky are I would have been I like, I
Speaker 1: like the Mitchell and Webb sketch who are British comedians
Speaker 1: where they have a fake Sealsnick and he's like, Hitchcock
Speaker 1: came to me with this book called Rebecca and I said, great,
Speaker 1: who do you want as Rebecca? And then they explained it.
Speaker 1: He's like I told him, if in America, if you
Speaker 1: have a movie called Rebecca, audiences are gonna want to
Speaker 1: see a dame called Rebecca. And then like fake movie
Speaker 1: is that. She's like, she's Rebecca and he's like, uh no,
Speaker 1: that's what the second Mrs de Winter will wear. I
Speaker 1: just flit. I love that, And you know what, I
Speaker 1: do wish I actually kind of do wish we could
Speaker 1: see Rebecca because the thing about film is that we
Speaker 1: have this third person perspective. We're not inside the second
Speaker 1: Mrs de Winter's head, and I would have loved to
Speaker 1: have actually been privy to the scene between them in
Speaker 1: the sex check by the beach and seen that fight
Speaker 1: and seeing like seeing Mrs de Winter coming down the stairs.
Speaker 1: And it's supposed to be that she's haunting this place,
Speaker 1: so I would love to see what it looked like
Speaker 1: when she was in there. And I hope that the
Speaker 1: new one takes advantage of that maybe that's a Nixmas
Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons. What about a Crimson ghost?
Speaker 1: What if we got a Crimson Peak style Rebecca. I mean,
Speaker 1: so when I was in college, that's when I saw
Speaker 1: Rebecca for the first time. And it's because I was
Speaker 1: on this play called Mrs Prudential, which this um guy
Speaker 1: from at school wrote Dennis Webber, very funny, writer, director,
Speaker 1: very talented. You know Dennis from Chicago. Yes, saying so
Speaker 1: he listened since he's your friends. Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: maybe of course we Yeah, we make all of our
Speaker 1: friends listen. Um. So, anyway, it was called it was
Speaker 1: based on it was inspired by Rebecca, and it was
Speaker 1: called Mrs Prudential and Mr Prudential. I was Mrs Prudential
Speaker 1: number two, and there were five Mrs Prudentials and each
Speaker 1: one he murders and puts in the closet and at
Speaker 1: the end they all come back as ghosts and kill
Speaker 1: him and I and I remember reading that and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: Rebecca is going to be so fun. It's going to
Speaker 1: be about ghosts. And then it wasn't any any ghosts.
Speaker 1: Not one goes there's not a ghost in sight. And
Speaker 1: she asked, like, do you believe in ghosts. And she's
Speaker 1: like no, and then she's like, I want a party
Speaker 1: and I want to address and I am in charge now,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, where is the ghost? I wanted the ghost? There?
Speaker 1: There were so many like billow curtains and shadow moments.
Speaker 1: I was like, she's gonna pop up up, She's gonna
Speaker 1: pop up and give me that goes, give me that guy. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like it's really important that
Speaker 1: you never see Rebecca because no matter what, it's not
Speaker 1: going to live up to this vision that the Seconds
Speaker 1: to Winter has in her head. He was a beautiful,
Speaker 1: perfect woman who nobody can ever be as pretty as
Speaker 1: I don't know you can get Rihanna. I know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just want more. I would like more of a
Speaker 1: film Rebecca, just so like I want to see who
Speaker 1: they think Hollywood like, I want to see that casting.
Speaker 1: It's not it's more like a it's more of like
Speaker 1: a personal Hollywood casting moment that I would like. I
Speaker 1: think it would be really fun if there are just
Speaker 1: one picture in the modern movie and it's just like
Speaker 1: Angelina Jolie and everyone's like, oh, Angelina Jolie is gonna
Speaker 1: come and and then she never does. It's just they
Speaker 1: just licensed that one photo. I got hundred dollars off
Speaker 1: of Getty Images and then that was it. Just like
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep and Mama Mia too. Yeah, I sort of
Speaker 1: my my dream Rebecca. It's sort of like Angelina Jolie
Speaker 1: meets Rihanna. What was I saying? Oh Um? I like
Speaker 1: that change in the movie to the TV show that
Speaker 1: she sort of like impetuously wanted the party to prove
Speaker 1: she wants to kind of prove herself. We're in the
Speaker 1: book she sort of passively like hadn't rest upon her
Speaker 1: where in this I did like that little action moment
Speaker 1: where she's like, I could have a party. I could
Speaker 1: be as good as Rebecca. And it was a good
Speaker 1: party and she did it all by herself. So proud
Speaker 1: of her. I hate her, but she did a really
Speaker 1: good job. And I was like, Okay, I could have
Speaker 1: one beer with you. Not to but we're making progress
Speaker 1: because book, Mrs de Winter, I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to just go eat your cold ham and Daria.
Speaker 1: She matures a lot faster in the movie than she
Speaker 1: does in the book, like she very quickly comes into
Speaker 1: her own and is able to make a sort of
Speaker 1: statements and kind of talks to the butler. Is so
Speaker 1: she is a lady of the manner when her husband
Speaker 1: is being dragged away for maybe murder um where she
Speaker 1: gives She gives the butler like very reassuring things about
Speaker 1: like m Mr Winter will appreciate that, thank you for
Speaker 1: your service. Birth uh. And it's very much like the
Speaker 1: behavior of like a thirty year old woman who has
Speaker 1: been running a house for a while. Yeah, she gets
Speaker 1: on board pretty quick. Yeah, which I didn't. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, it's like movie magic and things needed to
Speaker 1: be collapsed in like we lost. We lost that like
Speaker 1: moment of him being terrible at the party to her
Speaker 1: for a very long time, and like the boat happening
Speaker 1: right away. I miss all of that him being terrible
Speaker 1: to her essentially, so that like the end, you're like,
Speaker 1: why does why is she still with him? Like why
Speaker 1: the police? Yeah, why doesn't she? So Like I feel
Speaker 1: like you kind of missed some of that as well
Speaker 1: of just like the extended, prolonged lack of confidence from
Speaker 1: her and like extended prolonged moments of him being a
Speaker 1: total asshole to her. I also missed those moments of
Speaker 1: tension when one after he shuns her from the party,
Speaker 1: Like I felt that in a gut punch in the book,
Speaker 1: and maybe because I already knew what was going to happen,
Speaker 1: I didn't feel the same way in the movie. And
Speaker 1: then those like a weird ride or die moments where
Speaker 1: they're like together and he's talking to her for the
Speaker 1: first time and you're like, oh, it's these two people
Speaker 1: on board. Like in the book, I I kind of
Speaker 1: understood why it was like being writer or did even
Speaker 1: though it was fucked up. I was like, this is weird.
Speaker 1: It's not a love story, but you aren't committed to
Speaker 1: each other, where I think trying to turn it into
Speaker 1: a traditional love story flattened it. Yeah, and you that
Speaker 1: gut punch of that party too, because I feel like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have all experiences, but like
Speaker 1: throwing a party that doesn't when you're fighting with your
Speaker 1: partner is like the worst fucking thing. Like to try
Speaker 1: to try my ex girlfriend and I we had like
Speaker 1: an event, she gotten, we gotten a fight and like
Speaker 1: the rest of the party is just the absolute To
Speaker 1: be in a fight at a party is like the
Speaker 1: ultimate like public couple bullshit thing. That you're trying to
Speaker 1: like push through and I miss that too, Like I
Speaker 1: really I really need to see that. And I also
Speaker 1: feel that feels very common because it's like you're both
Speaker 1: stressed trying to put something together and you have different
Speaker 1: expectations of it, and then all of a sudden you
Speaker 1: get into a fight right before the right does the
Speaker 1: guess is walking in. You're like, and then you have
Speaker 1: to I have a question because as we all know,
Speaker 1: I didn't finish the book blah blah blah. So the
Speaker 1: guy that was at the sex shock Ben, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: was he in the book? Yeah? Yes, yeah, okay, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't recall him in the person I read in
Speaker 1: the book Jack Come it thinks he's his ace in
Speaker 1: the hole, and he's like, hey'll tell you that they
Speaker 1: were at the shed and like they go and get
Speaker 1: Ben and then yeah, Ben's like no, not what, No,
Speaker 1: I don't remember because I told him that she will
Speaker 1: institutionalize hit me. He ever goes around telling people that
Speaker 1: she has her lovers over to the shed. That was
Speaker 1: hard to watch, like classic old movie Hitchcock, Like using
Speaker 1: Ben as like a spooky scary element is so able
Speaker 1: as it's like I was like, oh god, this is
Speaker 1: hard to watch. I didn't get that sense from him
Speaker 1: in the book really like he's not spooky, he's not scary.
Speaker 1: He just like he's he's down by the shore. And
Speaker 1: second Mrs de Winter talks to him and he shares
Speaker 1: some of these things, but like they in the first
Speaker 1: couple of times you meet him, I mean, Hitchcock really
Speaker 1: is like this person is scary. I think what I actually,
Speaker 1: I think the nuance in the book was interesting to me,
Speaker 1: where it was like the Mrs de Winter wasn't afraid
Speaker 1: of of him, but the men Frank and Mr de
Speaker 1: Winter were like, oh, don't be scared of him, Like
Speaker 1: he I know he's scary, but don't be scared. Like
Speaker 1: they thought she would be scared of him, and they
Speaker 1: put that sort of prejudice onto him, but she wasn't frightened,
Speaker 1: and so it felt like a differentiation between them. M
Speaker 1: I like that, Yeah, that she just like because she's
Speaker 1: not he's like elitist person. She just likes he's a
Speaker 1: firstman as a person. Yeah, I I think you're tan.
Speaker 1: Going back to like party moment, there is so much
Speaker 1: awkward and comedic potential in that, especially because Mr de
Speaker 1: Winter Maxim doesn't dress up for the costume party, which
Speaker 1: is a peak asshole move, such a good detail. Well,
Speaker 1: I love the ash don't dress up. He's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I get to do this because I'm the host, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, you didn't do shit. Literally, you did nothing.
Speaker 1: It's at your house that you share with your wife.
Speaker 1: If you were too mysteriously disappear, as I think he should,
Speaker 1: then she would get the house, so it's her house too.
Speaker 1: But like he just decides, I don't want to wear
Speaker 1: a costume, which okay, fine, but don't require everyone else
Speaker 1: to wear a costume. Make it costume optional. It's a
Speaker 1: little fun costume party, or don't throw it costumes the
Speaker 1: costume party, just have a black tie dinner party. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really interesting for you to refer to it as
Speaker 1: his hestity shares with his wife that she would definitely
Speaker 1: inherent if something happened to him. Is there ever a
Speaker 1: version of this where the second Mr Winter could have
Speaker 1: just teamed up with Mrs Dancer. That's what I was just. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought that because in the movie he disappears when
Speaker 1: the ship comes in and she's like, oh where are you? Oh,
Speaker 1: Maxim where are you, Maxim? Maxim, Oh, I've lost him?
Speaker 1: And then um, I'm like, what if you stop looking
Speaker 1: down in my notes? I'm like, you don't look for him,
Speaker 1: stop looking baby at the house. I had the very
Speaker 1: wrong prediction when reading it that that's what would happen,
Speaker 1: or that she would end up alone with the house
Speaker 1: and having to be like the lady of the house
Speaker 1: as as a widow, sort of like almost becoming the
Speaker 1: new Maxim to Winter like she now is like the
Speaker 1: the mysterious widow. That's what I would want. I love
Speaker 1: a mysterious widow. I know that miss Havisham is kind
Speaker 1: of like not a widow technically, but like I want
Speaker 1: like a crazy old lady that's wearing the same dress,
Speaker 1: has a rotting that nobody gets to eat. I love it.
Speaker 1: I just want a version of this where she goes
Speaker 1: to Mrs Dancrews and says, hey, So it turns out
Speaker 1: Maximum murdered Rebecca. You liked her, right, you too, seem close.
Speaker 1: So I was thinking maybe he should go to jail
Speaker 1: and you can keep running the house. But for me
Speaker 1: in Rebecca's memory, so we're friends now. Yeah, it looks
Speaker 1: like a very happy ending to me, keep running the
Speaker 1: house beautiful though I Rebecca would have wanted it. I'll
Speaker 1: just hang out with the dogs and the painting Rebecca
Speaker 1: in the foy. It'll be a nice little momento. Maybe
Speaker 1: Mrs the Second Mrs de Winter falls in love with
Speaker 1: Mrs dan Verse vice versa, and they run this beautiful
Speaker 1: list together. Oh, I turned into a bed breakfast with
Speaker 1: a Myer's kitchen. Have any of you seen the film
Speaker 1: The Handmaiden. I don't want to spoil anything because there
Speaker 1: are plot twists, but there are. There are is like
Speaker 1: sort of made to countess love affair things going on.
Speaker 1: It's based on a really good book called Fingersmith by
Speaker 1: Sarah Waters, and it's very fun and very gay. Okay,
Speaker 1: I might add that actually I haven't picked my book yet.
Speaker 1: There it is, I would. I mean, I love the movie.
Speaker 1: I would love to read. I've never read the book.
Speaker 1: The movie is spectacular, Okay, I'm excited, Okay, excellent. I'm
Speaker 1: like kind of very blah about this movie. I also
Speaker 1: don't like a lot of old films from like pre
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. I have very little interest in a lot
Speaker 1: of black and white films from the classic film era,
Speaker 1: and I've seen like my fair amount of Hitchcock. I've
Speaker 1: seen the Birds, I've seen Rear Window, I've seen Marnie,
Speaker 1: which is like one of those deep cuts for a
Speaker 1: lot of people. I think Marnie was super weird, and
Speaker 1: that's the one I think I liked the most. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just kind of was like, this is not even
Speaker 1: the book in a way that makes sense to me,
Speaker 1: And they took out all of the really interesting things,
Speaker 1: like because we are seeing it from this third person
Speaker 1: perspective and we're not inside of her head, we're missing
Speaker 1: so much And um, I really missed kind of the
Speaker 1: weird symbiotic relationship that she had with Mrs van Hopper,
Speaker 1: who is probably my favorite character. I love Miss van Hopper.
Speaker 1: So she was also right. She was I can't wait
Speaker 1: for the and out Mrs van Hopper of every fiber
Speaker 1: of my being. I agree. I'm I am a big
Speaker 1: Hitchcock fan, like but I do. I watched it in college.
Speaker 1: I didn't really remember Rebecca. I feel like I wanted
Speaker 1: to like it so much because I was in college
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, Hitchcock, you know. But now
Speaker 1: when I watched the second time, it just doesn't. It's
Speaker 1: his first American film, it's one of his early films,
Speaker 1: and I feel like he just his later films get
Speaker 1: really into the character's heads so much more and get
Speaker 1: so much more intimate, which this the book and why
Speaker 1: I loved it was it did feel so you did
Speaker 1: feel so intimate with the protagonist or with Mrs de Winter,
Speaker 1: and and you get really in her head and you
Speaker 1: see why she's doing the things she does, even if
Speaker 1: you don't agree with them. And this just felt so cold,
Speaker 1: you know, it didn't feel very connected in that way.
Speaker 1: Isn't you kind of weird? Sorry? I was just saying,
Speaker 1: isn't it weird that it won Best Picture? I didn't
Speaker 1: really the Academy Award for Let's See. I'm sorry that
Speaker 1: like was super shady, but like I just it did.
Speaker 1: I mean, there were fewer people making fewer films back then,
Speaker 1: but it just doesn't feel remarkable to me. Here here
Speaker 1: are the nomineesh Best Picture nominees. Rebecca one Um, The
Speaker 1: Grapes of Oh, A Lot of Movies, The Grapes of Wrath,
Speaker 1: Foreign Correspondent, All This and Heaven to Our Town, The
Speaker 1: Long Voyage Home, Philadelphia Story, The Great Dictator. No, the
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Story, The Great Dictator, Kitty Foyle and the letter
Speaker 1: Wait the Great Dictator came out that you were didn't Wait,
Speaker 1: Yeah I really should have won. Yeah that's crazy. This yeah,
Speaker 1: this is I was watching it knowing that it won
Speaker 1: Best Picture and I was like, really, it's not that impressive.
Speaker 1: It's it's good, like I like the Performer, but as
Speaker 1: it's a little film, it didn't like me. I want.
Speaker 1: I also wonder if, like it is Hitchcock's first American film,
Speaker 1: and maybe it is that like we've seen as a fan,
Speaker 1: like I've seen his older stuff and then going back
Speaker 1: to this, I'm like, oh, this isn't that great, but
Speaker 1: maybe it has some of the specialness of him as
Speaker 1: a director that you kind of when you're comparing against
Speaker 1: a person. I don't know, like you see the Academy.
Speaker 1: It was like maybe the Academy was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's his first one here to give him a good
Speaker 1: that he feels good. Yeah. Also, Laurence Olivier, I assume
Speaker 1: was a big deal. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Joan Joan
Speaker 1: Fontane I'm reading now was the little sister of Olivia
Speaker 1: de Haveland. Oh. I think also as we know, the
Speaker 1: Academy Awards now always get it right. So you know
Speaker 1: it is Ruin's favorite film from Crash. You know what though,
Speaker 1: I was a Crash defender for a very long time,
Speaker 1: and then I watched it again like two years ago,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, this is garbage. Somebody should
Speaker 1: have slapped me. It's real bad. It's not good. It's
Speaker 1: sort of but didn't feel racism. I thought that was
Speaker 1: the year. Yeah, yeah, we're done. Now we did it.
Speaker 1: It's all over, it's all good. I just got a
Speaker 1: note from how I Would producer David o' sales Nick,
Speaker 1: and he says, we have to do an ad break
Speaker 1: right now. Nice, nice, nice, Okay, we're back with Popcorn
Speaker 1: book Club. Okay. One of the things that I think
Speaker 1: it was really likable about the main character, the second
Speaker 1: Misses de Winter, is that she's very funny, like she's
Speaker 1: a quiet humor and she's not making jokes with anybody,
Speaker 1: but of when you get to be pretty to her
Speaker 1: in her world, she's a very very funny person and
Speaker 1: you do not get any of that in the moment.
Speaker 1: She's a wet paper towel. She will she she is
Speaker 1: a little bit she's very timid, and then suddenly she's
Speaker 1: good at running the house, and that's nice for her,
Speaker 1: But you never see any of the right observations that
Speaker 1: you get in the book, and it makes it really
Speaker 1: hard to relate to her. I have a question for
Speaker 1: all of you. I posted a link to the poster
Speaker 1: in the chat, so if you could click the poster,
Speaker 1: is that supposed to be Rebecca? To the bottom left?
Speaker 1: Do we think? Isn't that weird? She looks like a
Speaker 1: statue also porcelain doll. Concerning why Mrs de Winter's head
Speaker 1: is coming out of a book? Like, is that supposed
Speaker 1: to be Daphne Dumourrier's book? Rebecca? Like? What the book? Rebecca?
Speaker 1: It's to remind you that this is a book you
Speaker 1: liked and now it's a movie. If it were the
Speaker 1: Great Gatsby, I'll be like, the book represents the American dream,
Speaker 1: the book represents the British upper class, the landed gentry
Speaker 1: of England. Oh, speaking of books, I really did miss
Speaker 1: the fact that he was like, oh, do you want
Speaker 1: this book? And she got to like get to know
Speaker 1: Rebecca's handwriting, And I think that that was supposed to
Speaker 1: be hinted at because when she was like stalling for
Speaker 1: time and trying to get Maxim on the phone, she
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, I'm going to go into my room
Speaker 1: and see if I've left my book there. Uh, just
Speaker 1: I'll call down to the desk to give them a
Speaker 1: forwarding address in case someone finds my book. And I
Speaker 1: was just like, wait, is this the book that he
Speaker 1: gave you in the car that never happened on screen?
Speaker 1: So we're just like, why are you fucking crazy crazy
Speaker 1: about this book? And I very much just was disappointed
Speaker 1: in her, like not being haunted by the physical details
Speaker 1: of Rebecca still being at the house, like the letter boxes,
Speaker 1: Like there are tons of like little details that I
Speaker 1: not to be like male filmmaker men aren't good at
Speaker 1: making movies. They aren't aren't either. There's so many people
Speaker 1: that aren't making movies. But there isn't there something like
Speaker 1: about being a woman and like feeling threatened by your
Speaker 1: spouses are sechnficant other's X and like they're those physical
Speaker 1: details like the handkerchief in the pocket and the handwriting
Speaker 1: and the letters, and like I didn't get that she
Speaker 1: was haunted by him when she was like, you don't
Speaker 1: have to love me. It's fine. I was like, whoa girl?
Speaker 1: Where are you having this? She gets from zero to
Speaker 1: sixty very quickly. Yeah, he's also major crying basically every
Speaker 1: scene she's seen. It's it's a very terrible relationship in
Speaker 1: the movie, maybe worse so than the book, because at
Speaker 1: least in the books you can kind of put some
Speaker 1: of it off on her being paranoid, like she's convinced
Speaker 1: that everybody in the village is talking about her very
Speaker 1: badly and speculating about like why did he marry this woman?
Speaker 1: And in the movie they actually are like Beatrice and
Speaker 1: her husband are actually saying, I bet she's a showgirl
Speaker 1: from the south of France. But you're you're totally right,
Speaker 1: like not to be like male filmmakers. But what is
Speaker 1: interesting is that Rebecca, the first Mrs de Winter and
Speaker 1: second Mrs de Winter are these like very full characters,
Speaker 1: and they feel really flattened out in this book in
Speaker 1: this movie adaptation, like like you don't get those hints
Speaker 1: of her first Mrs de Winter and how she's what
Speaker 1: she's what Rebecca is like, and like how how how
Speaker 1: like much of a huge person she was in this
Speaker 1: house that you get in the book. So, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I agree with you on that that you miss all
Speaker 1: of those like very small moments that are actually huge
Speaker 1: and I do, but and I do think it is
Speaker 1: of the era too, of like there, It's really I
Speaker 1: feel like back in the forties filmmaking was kind of
Speaker 1: like Gone with the Wind and all of these big epics,
Speaker 1: and I feel like they really struggled with having kind
Speaker 1: of the language of intimate internal feelings and details. And
Speaker 1: you know, we have so many devices now in filmmaking
Speaker 1: that we use that just not not technical devices, but
Speaker 1: like film storytelling devices that just didn't exist back then. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: why can't movies from eighty years ago be as good
Speaker 1: as movies today? Why doesn't Winter have a Twitter feed?
Speaker 1: So I know how anxious she feels actually more like
Speaker 1: Emily in Paris? Yet should I watch me? Okay? Watch it.
Speaker 1: It's not good. It's everything. I watched all of it
Speaker 1: in the course of one week. I watched it one
Speaker 1: single day. It is awful. It is indefensible, and I
Speaker 1: can't wait for season two. Okay, back to Jennifer, what
Speaker 1: you were saying that moment of the maids being snippy
Speaker 1: to her, You're totally right under. I didn't even realize
Speaker 1: at the time because she's being paranoid, like everyone probably
Speaker 1: hates me, and it's like, oh ship, they do hate you,
Speaker 1: and where it is so much more powerful if she's
Speaker 1: so insecure and everyone's just like yeah, whatever, because that's
Speaker 1: kind of what real life is like most of the times,
Speaker 1: where you're like everyone hates me, Oh my god, everyone's
Speaker 1: just like, oh yeah, would you have for lunch? Like
Speaker 1: no one really can. It's the whole therapy thing of
Speaker 1: like no one is thinking about you as much as
Speaker 1: you are thinking about you, and so these like imagined.
Speaker 1: I loved the imagined conversations in the book. It felt
Speaker 1: and she it goes so far like she spends it.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm like, wait, is this really happening, And then
Speaker 1: I have to go back to pages of being like,
Speaker 1: oh no, she's still imagining this scenario. Um. And I
Speaker 1: think that is so relatable to like being a young
Speaker 1: person that's insecure and having a lot of anxiety. And
Speaker 1: I really hope that the new movie really digs into that.
Speaker 1: I also think that a way that if I were
Speaker 1: picking this up, I would have there's this great detail
Speaker 1: that they opened the house to the villagers once a week,
Speaker 1: every week, and we never see that happen. And I
Speaker 1: think that that's such a great opportunity to have people
Speaker 1: be talking about her and have her be able to
Speaker 1: build on this sort of like oh God, like I
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm doing situation, like to have people
Speaker 1: be like, oh, this isn't what it used to be,
Speaker 1: like you know, and I just feel like there's that
Speaker 1: really great detail and I think it is right for like,
Speaker 1: inviting people into your home is not a thing that
Speaker 1: most of us do, Like strangers straight up people can
Speaker 1: just walk into your house like it's a museum. And
Speaker 1: I would love to see how that affects her and
Speaker 1: how that affects her like sanity. I'm disappointed that it
Speaker 1: didn't feel in the book running a major estate seemed very,
Speaker 1: very hard, and I'm mad that like the details like
Speaker 1: the food, like all the food and the waste, and like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's so many little things that now
Speaker 1: I obviously movies, you know, you have to cut for time,
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, there were a lot of little things
Speaker 1: that I missed that weren't replaced by like new visual
Speaker 1: details to you know what. I'm sorry it does very
Speaker 1: well like it feels. It just sort of reminded me
Speaker 1: of a modern pieces The Great. Have you guys watched
Speaker 1: The Great? I love it so much, and it is
Speaker 1: it does have kind of a Rebecca feel where it's
Speaker 1: this young woman that gets married off to the Czar
Speaker 1: of Russia and she goes in not knowing how to
Speaker 1: do anything, and it does feel like they show the
Speaker 1: excess and the gluttony and all of I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: it's a very different tone, but it I do feel
Speaker 1: like Danny, You're right, is missing And it was such
Speaker 1: a fun exploration of that sort of thing because it
Speaker 1: was a job, I mean, like running a man or house,
Speaker 1: just like that's a real fucking thing even now, and
Speaker 1: I do feel like it is such a relatable feeling
Speaker 1: of being out of your depths, whether it's you know, okay,
Speaker 1: I was like having to run a giant manner. I
Speaker 1: hate having to run a giant manner. So exhausting when
Speaker 1: I marry a mysterious widow every time. No, but of
Speaker 1: just like going into a circumstance where a like you're,
Speaker 1: you know, with a bunch of wealthy people and you
Speaker 1: don't know how you're supposed to act or talk or
Speaker 1: like in a new job that you and have no
Speaker 1: idea how to do, Like I feel like it is
Speaker 1: such a feeling that I really connected to in the book,
Speaker 1: and it ye didn't feel like it was there in
Speaker 1: this movie that Grandma besides spontane being just so anxious,
Speaker 1: the Grandma wasn't there being like where's Rebecca? I love Rebecca.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Grandma, I forgot about Grandma. That was funny.
Speaker 1: You were all right, though, Favel. It was hotter than
Speaker 1: I had pictured him. He's super hot and not that drunk. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was totally tim this movie version of him. I
Speaker 1: was like, he seems okay, and he said, I got it.
Speaker 1: Rebecca would do that. Yeah. Might be cousins, but they
Speaker 1: both can get it, you know, but but made of California,
Speaker 1: it is legal to marry your first cousin. Okay. You
Speaker 1: wanted him to be you want him to be hot,
Speaker 1: and then looked like he spent the last eight months
Speaker 1: drunk out of his mind. And this guy was just
Speaker 1: kind of hot. He was just hot. There was there
Speaker 1: was no he was like grief missed. There was like
Speaker 1: no grief roughness to him, which I wanted. If we
Speaker 1: really want Madman, Don Draper drunk. That's what I feel like.
Speaker 1: George Saunders is terrible casting for fulfill And I'm saying
Speaker 1: that as someone who was only allowed to watch black
Speaker 1: and white movies growing up. So George Sanders was one
Speaker 1: of my childhood crushes. I have follow up questions. One
Speaker 1: what to why my parents really hated cartoons? But all
Speaker 1: old movies are g rated and they wouldn't like sit
Speaker 1: and watch I don't know what cartoons are, like Porky
Speaker 1: the Porcupine. Um, well it was a good and we
Speaker 1: all agree on that. But but everything on Turner Classic
Speaker 1: Louis is de rated because of the HASE codes. So
Speaker 1: they would just watch like an in definite series of
Speaker 1: old black and white movies with me. So I love
Speaker 1: George Sanders. He's amazing, He's great, But a lot of
Speaker 1: his term is that he's like this why cosmopolitan man
Speaker 1: who like is always making Martini's and uh wants to
Speaker 1: engage in like some banter with young women. Um, and
Speaker 1: I think that's true in this as well. Like GEAREDE.
Speaker 1: Sanders seems like himself, he seems like he'd be fun.
Speaker 1: He does not seem like the dissipated alcoholic, like former
Speaker 1: president of his fraternity. The Rebecca was having sex was
Speaker 1: frank play. When I think of that, I think of
Speaker 1: Ernie Hammrick, like make his eyes bloodshot and like let
Speaker 1: him gain twenty pounds and he's he's Favel. The important
Speaker 1: thing with Favel in the plot of the book is
Speaker 1: the police chief is on Maxim side because Favel represents
Speaker 1: a different part of society where even the second Mr Winter,
Speaker 1: who like is not accustomed to high society. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's weird that Rebecca would have been friends with a
Speaker 1: guy like that. And then the police chief when he
Speaker 1: comes is like Max, you and me, we get it,
Speaker 1: We're not. This guy is right, but he's crazy, you know,
Speaker 1: like you know who I am? Yeah for modern casting
Speaker 1: is what's his name? The brother from Got Out, Caleb
Speaker 1: l Andrew Jones perfect very greasy, like dirty, and he
Speaker 1: just looks like a little slam it. Yeah, he's greasy,
Speaker 1: you get it. But you're like, he's greasy and he
Speaker 1: would leave a film if you had sex with And
Speaker 1: it's like you're a little scared of him. He's but
Speaker 1: it's fine. Yeah, I feel like in more ways than
Speaker 1: one he would leave a film if you had sex
Speaker 1: with him, like he would have filmed me without your consent,
Speaker 1: And I don't I see that. I see the potential
Speaker 1: of that in him. I'm not saying it's a good thing.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that's the vibe, and I'm sure it's
Speaker 1: a lovely person casting vibe fifteen casting. Thank you so much?
Speaker 1: Are we He's good. I'm looking at his face right
Speaker 1: now and he's he's creeping me out. Just make another
Speaker 1: remak of Rebecca. It seems like we have to. I
Speaker 1: feel like we should make a modern remake. There are
Speaker 1: still rich people modern yet you can still cast him.
Speaker 1: He has have a lot more options. I think that's
Speaker 1: one of the ways Rebecca would be really really different
Speaker 1: if it happened some Yeah, I think women in this
Speaker 1: class have a lot of options that are not but
Speaker 1: you have to get married and orphans orphans who are
Speaker 1: working is like personal assistance to very rich women. I
Speaker 1: still be fine. She doesn't have to marry somebody who's
Speaker 1: a murderer, but it's still feels an emotional draw in
Speaker 1: that feels real. And also, you know, if she's a
Speaker 1: gig worker, minimum way just still seven fifty an hour.
Speaker 1: You know, and you meet like a you know, text magnet,
Speaker 1: you meet like whose really means you? Women date men
Speaker 1: like that without the money, right, Like you're doing it
Speaker 1: right now. I have too loving parents, and I have
Speaker 1: fallen in love with people who treat me very badly. Yea,
Speaker 1: and yeah they're not they don't have a manner and
Speaker 1: aren't the like talk of the town. Yeah, I've done
Speaker 1: it for a way uglier, way worse real estate. Hey
Speaker 1: we all learn, you know, Yeah, only only some people
Speaker 1: are judging you. I'm joking. Day, just like the young
Speaker 1: second Mrs de Winter, you grow up and then you
Speaker 1: wear a black dress and pearls. Yeah, she never gets
Speaker 1: a to do that because she has to take care
Speaker 1: of her decaying husband to murderer forever. Most people, most
Speaker 1: people do get to do that. Yeah, I do love that,
Speaker 1: a bitter sweet, tragic ending where both people kind of
Speaker 1: get what they deserve, and they deserve to be in
Speaker 1: a mediocre hotel room reading about wildfowl forever. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: basically what the guys on Supernatural do. Like, that's what
Speaker 1: they do for fifteen seasons. They're in shitty motels and
Speaker 1: like reading. Okay, so that has a TV show adaptation
Speaker 1: that follows the end of the book where they're in
Speaker 1: their hotel rooms and someone comes back, like, you know
Speaker 1: what we should read and watch? I know what you
Speaker 1: did last summer book. I did not know that. I've
Speaker 1: read the book. Actually read a lot of books by
Speaker 1: the author too. I went through a weird phase. Who's
Speaker 1: the author? Twenty nine years um, I can't remember her
Speaker 1: name off the top of my head. I'll look it up.
Speaker 1: I was saying, did you see those photos today? It's
Speaker 1: a woman though of the New Shonda Rhymes, Yeah, Lois Duncan.
Speaker 1: She has a bunch of books. There's like one where
Speaker 1: a bunch of kids like kill their English teacher by
Speaker 1: accident and she just does like a lot of like murdering.
Speaker 1: Was it detected into teaching? Mrs Tingle? Oh these covers?
Speaker 1: Because what did you say? Young young adult books from
Speaker 1: like the thirties, right from the thirties. I was like reading.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, this is fun. Sorry, Oh I
Speaker 1: didn't read the date, but still seven and three. Then
Speaker 1: I was looking at I looked at the first day
Speaker 1: I saw was when she was born, and I was like,
Speaker 1: there's one that ero called Daughters of Eve, and I
Speaker 1: have no idea what it's about, but the cover is
Speaker 1: in Yeah, I love Lows, Duncan. I'm down to read.
Speaker 1: I know what you did last summer, and I don't
Speaker 1: think a lot of people know that was a buck.
Speaker 1: It's like really low key. Um. This one is about
Speaker 1: a group of young women who become convinced to punish
Speaker 1: their fathers by a charismatic feminist teacher. That fun was, Duncan,
Speaker 1: is the reason I am the way I am. That
Speaker 1: sounds awesome, and you just murder him It's fine? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I call the police on your husband and take his money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sorry. Yes, Well doesn't the second my
Speaker 1: sister Winter do that. I know, because she's a love.
Speaker 1: But but the thing is, Jennifer, you're not any better
Speaker 1: because you said that if Dan killed somebody, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: call the police on him and take his money. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the coveya was that? Like, you know, if only you
Speaker 1: had been dating for like three four yeah, yeah, dating
Speaker 1: and married for a long time, if you many years,
Speaker 1: if you and Daniel had only been married and yeah
Speaker 1: for three months, for half of that he was mean
Speaker 1: to you, and he was so mean to me. I'm
Speaker 1: just crying all the time on the suicide because this
Speaker 1: marriage was going so badly, I would probably feel very differently.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I mean a lot of my um and
Speaker 1: I cannot reiterate and enough the fact that I will
Speaker 1: be helping Daniel escape the country when he does, he's
Speaker 1: inefftable murdering a lot of that his face. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is gonna be like evidence is going to be in
Speaker 1: evidence for a court case. For a court case. It
Speaker 1: becomes like a Netflix true crime moment, like this audio
Speaker 1: will be like and there will be a man and
Speaker 1: like a tweet jacket talking about how like his wife
Speaker 1: was constantly saying she would help him escape when he
Speaker 1: murdered someone. And if you've met Daniel, you know he
Speaker 1: is just a moment away from murder. No, but it's
Speaker 1: it's based upon the fact that I have known him
Speaker 1: for so long and I know that he is such
Speaker 1: a kind, loving, giving person. That have you guys known
Speaker 1: each other or when did you start? For six years? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've been heard for three years. We've known each other
Speaker 1: for six so you know that. Yeah, but you know
Speaker 1: the murder would be justified at anybody. So I assume
Speaker 1: if he murdered someone, they probably really had it coming
Speaker 1: right right again, a thing that will be used at
Speaker 1: the court case Againstumation. I will I'm going to play
Speaker 1: the fifth th just okay, quick change of subject. So
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the Rebecca film Wikipedia page and there's
Speaker 1: a line about production and one of them is the
Speaker 1: Breen Office. Hollywood Censorship Board specifically prohibited prohibited any outright
Speaker 1: hint of a lesbian infatuation or relationship between Mrs Danvers
Speaker 1: and Rebecca, though the film clearly does dwell on Danver's
Speaker 1: obsessed with memories for late mistress. Yeah, they not stop
Speaker 1: everybody from reading matt lesbian relationship. Yeah no, so that
Speaker 1: would be that the minimum game they could do. That
Speaker 1: was like my biggoted, like my biggest Grandma's coming over
Speaker 1: the Thanksgiving Keep it low key. Yeah, we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to do some major reshoots. This is the least gay
Speaker 1: we can get it in the attit. Yeah yeah, I
Speaker 1: love it. I love thinking like the the studio having
Speaker 1: that last sigh. It feels a little tood we linger
Speaker 1: on the sheer fabric on her hand for just wants
Speaker 1: to feel again, she just likes fabric for your hand.
Speaker 1: I mean they say that that she that the author
Speaker 1: Daphne de Maurier, like there's questions about her sexuality, that
Speaker 1: she had affairs with women, and that she was quote
Speaker 1: a tomboy, which and that she wanted to wish that
Speaker 1: she had been born a boy. They say that she
Speaker 1: was like maybe bisexual, but this is all speculation. Oh wait,
Speaker 1: she also wrote a memoir like she's been pretty proud
Speaker 1: about the fact that. Here's my thing about all of
Speaker 1: the I feel like a lot of people born in
Speaker 1: like the late eighteen hundreds, in early nineteen hundred, people
Speaker 1: are like, oh, and you know, she wished that she
Speaker 1: were born a man, And I'm like, why wouldn't you, right, Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: that's not a signifier of gainus. That's a signifier of
Speaker 1: wanting basic human decency. Yeah, I mean, I think it's
Speaker 1: interesting that the way that Daphne more is described is
Speaker 1: the way Rebecca is described in the book. That people
Speaker 1: are always talking about how Rebecca should have been born
Speaker 1: a boy. She was fearless, she was fucking her cousin,
Speaker 1: which again Daphne to Maria was doing and wrote in
Speaker 1: her memoir that she loved fucking her cousin us. So yeah,
Speaker 1: clearly they're both fine with it, and again, in the
Speaker 1: state of California, people still do it. Consent, Yeah, but
Speaker 1: a lot. It seems like it would make for like
Speaker 1: really awkward Thanksgiving dinners the family at the very least.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's interesting to read this book
Speaker 1: assuming that Daphne to Murray did not necessarily see herself
Speaker 1: as the second Missister Winter, she might very well have
Speaker 1: seen herself as Rebecca. Mm hmm, yeah I was. That's
Speaker 1: why it's called Rebecca. I love that move. I think
Speaker 1: that's such like a modern baller touched to name your
Speaker 1: book Rebecca and to not have Rebecca in it, and
Speaker 1: then to never give your main character a name. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just like, oh, what an idea that's like, I'm
Speaker 1: that makes me mad, how smart it is and how cool.
Speaker 1: Though I'm very much though a fan of that sketch
Speaker 1: where it's like American audiences are gonna want to see
Speaker 1: a damn named Rebecca, because I feel like that's so true,
Speaker 1: Like wait, is she Rebecca? Like when I read it,
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, no one is named Rebeccah, Okay,
Speaker 1: I got it. I am there now, And like I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm a fairly hair you died, you know,
Speaker 1: like well read well like open minded personels, So like,
Speaker 1: why isn't this Basin and Rebetta? I mean, okay, does
Speaker 1: does daph need more? Then? Have contempt for this character
Speaker 1: because she never gets to establish an identity outside of
Speaker 1: her husband, like and she really never does. Like it
Speaker 1: does not end with her inheriting this beautiful mansion. It
Speaker 1: ends with her reading to him in a city hotel
Speaker 1: and I imagine me in a wheelchair. I know he's not,
Speaker 1: but it seems like he's heading in the direction where
Speaker 1: she's going to be pushing him around the ground. I
Speaker 1: think she has empathy for her. I think there would
Speaker 1: be no way to write this character like as funny
Speaker 1: and relatable as it is, or she didn't have empathy
Speaker 1: for her. But I also think that like she is
Speaker 1: doomed to her own small little life. Yeah, I feel sorry,
Speaker 1: Well I do feel like i've there are there They
Speaker 1: are such extremes, right, But I do think there are
Speaker 1: people who start as an unnamed Mrs de Winter and
Speaker 1: become a Rebecca. So maybe maybe Daphne was as at
Speaker 1: nineteen more like the current Mrs de Winter and then
Speaker 1: became the Rebecca. So the second will never get to
Speaker 1: do that though. She doesn't get to be thirty six
Speaker 1: and wear a black dress. Now she doesn't, well maybe
Speaker 1: at his funeral. Um, So go on a journey with
Speaker 1: me for a second. Right, you know the musical by
Speaker 1: canderin Ebb Cabaret right of course, about a nightclub. Nazis
Speaker 1: all sorts of fun things. Um. So I'm not saying
Speaker 1: Nazis are fun. That was ironic. I just I feel
Speaker 1: like just with the world where I have to say
Speaker 1: I don't think Nazis are fun. But anyway, there's that
Speaker 1: whole song where she sings the titular song cabaret um,
Speaker 1: and she talks about her friend Elsie and how everybody
Speaker 1: was like, oh Elsie's a how and you know, but
Speaker 1: when she was laid out, when she died, she was
Speaker 1: the happiest court she'd ever seen. I feel that is
Speaker 1: like Rebecca, And this story is a look Rebecca died,
Speaker 1: she got murdered by somebody who couldn't handle her ship.
Speaker 1: But look at the woman who can handle this guy's ship, Like,
Speaker 1: don't be that woman, Rebecca, Like, don't don't let somebody
Speaker 1: steal your shine. And also it's very much like at
Speaker 1: the end of that song Cabaret. She's like, I made
Speaker 1: my mind up back in Chelsea when I go, I'm
Speaker 1: going like Elsie and I feel like Daphne de Morier
Speaker 1: is like I am sucking my cousin and no one
Speaker 1: can stop me, and that's okay. And Rebecca, Rebecca had cancer.
Speaker 1: She did not want to die a slow death, and
Speaker 1: she died on her terms, and she made her husband miserable.
Speaker 1: In a funny break at the end, I like that
Speaker 1: you regret this is a funny PreK was she classic
Speaker 1: George Frank with a smile on her face, right, because
Speaker 1: she's like Frank you she was about to say Franked alright.
Speaker 1: Final final thoughts before we dip out of the nineteen
Speaker 1: forties black and white Transatlantic Rebecca, Well, I just think
Speaker 1: it's a swell film. I really wish that they had
Speaker 1: written not just the R but Rebecca her actual full name.
Speaker 1: I really wish it was the full name. I am
Speaker 1: haunting you. This is my away from my house, replace
Speaker 1: my porcelain angel. Bit that the Ava Lingoria film Over
Speaker 1: My Dead Body is a modern day remake of Rebecca.
Speaker 1: I like that movie. It's better than this for me.
Speaker 1: Who is the man in that movie unimportant. I don't
Speaker 1: even know the movie you're talking about. People Longoria is
Speaker 1: a ghost who haunts her ex fiance as he's starting
Speaker 1: to date a new woman. It's hilarious, it's amazing, incredible,
Speaker 1: it's better than this copy. Oh my god, you'll never
Speaker 1: get I mean you will, yeah, wow, Okay, oh my god.
Speaker 1: What a Casto was a different time, so less Rebecca's
Speaker 1: more Over My Bodies. That's my final thought. Well, actually,
Speaker 1: just in a real like actual coaching thought. I think
Speaker 1: that there is humor in the book and I did
Speaker 1: think that I liked the book better than this movie,
Speaker 1: which is funny because I was like, I hate this book,
Speaker 1: but it made me appreciate the book more and it
Speaker 1: made me appreciate the perspective that Daphnew Dumourier had more.
Speaker 1: And I think that one of the reasons I like
Speaker 1: Over My Dead Body so much more than Rebecca is
Speaker 1: because it is funny and it is a similar concept
Speaker 1: in terms of the haunting, although this it is quite
Speaker 1: literally is a ghost. You can see the ghost, but
Speaker 1: there's a lot of humor. And I think that one
Speaker 1: of the things for me that makes horror so great
Speaker 1: is a balance between horror and humor, which is why
Speaker 1: I really like movies like Cabin in the Woods and
Speaker 1: I really like Scream and I really like to get
Speaker 1: out because you kind of have to laugh so you're
Speaker 1: not terrified. And I think that this is one of
Speaker 1: those situations where if you laugh, it makes you less
Speaker 1: terrified that you're with this totally abusive man. Maybe you
Speaker 1: should have gone to New York. This maide is is
Speaker 1: like obsessed with his ex wife who is disappeared and drowned,
Speaker 1: even though she was super good at sailing. Everything's a
Speaker 1: little sketchy, so it's just kind of like people are
Speaker 1: talking about me. I guess I'm gonna throw a mask ball.
Speaker 1: I think I would like to see a sequel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would love to see a sequel about Mrs dan Cruise.
Speaker 1: That's that's my entire final thought. I hope she's okay. Um.
Speaker 1: I hope she feels scared about her actions um. And
Speaker 1: I hope she's happily employed someplace else where she doesn't
Speaker 1: constantly have to be reminded of her dead love her
Speaker 1: a slash child figure. At the very least, we know
Speaker 1: Mrs Danvers is really good at her job, so good yeah. Yeah. Also,
Speaker 1: burning down a house that big would take a lot
Speaker 1: of work. She's effective's yeah, she's good at she knows
Speaker 1: how to do stuff. Yeah, you know how you burn
Speaker 1: down a house that big? Little fires everywhere. Okay, I
Speaker 1: think that's a good place to stand it. That's our
Speaker 1: show for the week. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: I'm Danis Schwartz and you can find me on Twitter
Speaker 1: at Danish Wart with three z's. You can follow Jennifer
Speaker 1: Wright at jen Ashley Wright Karama, Donqua is at Karama Drama,
Speaker 1: Melissa Hunter is at Melissa f tw and Tian Tran
Speaker 1: is smart enough to have gotten off Twitter, but she
Speaker 1: is on Insta at Hank Tina. Our executive producer is
Speaker 1: Christopher Hessiotes and were produced and edited by Mike John's
Speaker 1: Special thanks to David Wasserman. Next week, we are jumping
Speaker 1: into the present. Well, it's still a period piece, but
Speaker 1: the Netflix adaptation of Rebecca with Armie Hammer and Lily James. Oh,
Speaker 1: we have thoughts. Stay tuned. Popcorn book Club is a
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio