1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: I would like to bring out onto the stage America's 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: favorite x non skateboard riding house about dwelling, nurturing, sweets, adorable, thoughtful, 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: thought provoking, anti racist comic, Miss Kelly Dunham from a 4 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: Cocoa Punch and I Heeart Radio. This is the Turning 5 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: America Lands. There are still four episodes left this season, 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: but today we have a bonus for you. It's a 7 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: little different. So like most of you, I used to 8 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: be a nun. Uh, very relatable. That's very relatable in 9 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: stand up comedy to get up and starts to talk 10 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: about how you used to be a nun and people 11 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: you know like and sometimes in straight clubs people will 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: be like, oh yeah, whatever, sister Mary bull dyke Uh 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: but um, I used to being on with the outfit 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: and everything. Uh. You know Kelly Dunham from previous episodes, 15 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: she's a former sister who's missed. Has told her she 16 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: walked like her shoulders were angry. But there's so much 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: more to Kelly's story. All these twists and turns. Of 18 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: my happiest childhood memories were learning words. I remember asking 19 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: my mom, what what does that bill? I mean? She goes, well, 20 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: what do you feel like you both love something and 21 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: Nanny don't love it so much? All I want? And 22 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, that's exactly how I 23 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: feel about you. What my mom had plants in here. Yes. 24 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: One of our producers, Emily Foreman, talked with Kelly about 25 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: her life before the Missionaries of Charity and after about 26 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: her faith about her comedy. So, um, I just want 27 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: to go back, back, back, back, back back. Uh, what's 28 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: the first joke you ever told? But mostly about her 29 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: complicated relationship with her mom. So I'm the youngest of seven. Um, 30 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: my mom had had six other kids with as many 31 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: alcoholic husbands, which I think is really impressive to find 32 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: that one or two but another alcoholics. Um, sometimes you 33 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: just have our types, which, uh, you know when you 34 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: think about like, okay, so what the thought process like? 35 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: You know, my last five merriages alcoholics ended in financial ruin. 36 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: But I've got the right alcoholic. So I appreciate my 37 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: mom's level of hope. So that's a rural Wisconsin accent. 38 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: And you hear in Kelly's voice she grew up there 39 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: hard work and not talking about feelings with the family code. 40 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: So is Dale Carnegie, the author of how to win 41 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: friends and influence people. It was an incredibly popular book, 42 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: and Kelly's dad made the books philosophy part of life 43 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: at home. Well, first, my dad would frequently um mornings. 44 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: He would come down. We had to be sitting at 45 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: the table at sixam, and he would slap his hand 46 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: on the table and say, act him through the second 47 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: you'll be enthusiastic, and most people are just about as 48 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: happy as they make up their mind they're going to be, 49 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: which she would attribute to Dale Carnegie and sometimes to 50 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln, although I've since heard that it was Dale 51 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: Carnegie quoting Abraham Lincoln, but doesn't sound like Abraham Lincoln 52 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: because Abraham Lincoln a clinical depression. I bet he did 53 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: not say that most people are just about as happy 54 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 1: as they make up their minds are gonna be in 55 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: the middle of the Civil War. You know, I have 56 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: a feeling that's not true, but it's a good story anyway, 57 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: I can imagine. Kelly says her dad would run Dale 58 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: Carnegie days and if you weren't following the b positive ethos, 59 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: you'd have to go to bed early. She says, there 60 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: are a lot of rules like that. He was strict, 61 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: but the first time Kelly made her dad laugh, she 62 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: knew she'd found an important tool. You could say her 63 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: comedy career started in that moment. Being funny was like 64 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: both a way to deflect things and a way to 65 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: have positive attention. So whose attention were you hoping to capture? 66 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: I mean maybe my mom's. Like hearing my mom laugh 67 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: was really a nice, nice thing, you know. I mean 68 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: also because my mom had a hard life. She had 69 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: all these kids, she had like these useless husbands of 70 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: varying degrees. You know, she had a hard life. So 71 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: I wanted her to I don't know, I wanted her 72 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: to be able to laugh. You know when you were 73 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: a kid, were you aware of life being hard for her? Then? 74 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: Only glimpses of it, especially when I was younger. Um, 75 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: I think her marriage to my dad also deteriorated as 76 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: a as time passed, But she was I really don't 77 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: think I saw her without her makeup till I was 78 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: like in third or fourth grade. Like, she was always 79 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: perfectly made up and perfectly put together. You know, she 80 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: was a person who that was important to her, and 81 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: she really maintained. Um, I don't know if it's a facade. 82 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: She also didn't want us to be like frightened, and 83 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: you know, she wanted us to feel secure. I think so, 84 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: I think that I didn't necessarily know it, I maybe 85 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: felt it somewhere because I was a very sensitive kid. Um. 86 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: So what my parents needed at that time, they needed 87 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: like a cheerful, very midwestern kid, right, what they got 88 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: was me. And I came into the world screaming as 89 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: a fully formed, winding, coastal sensitive queer. I was the 90 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: kind of kid that, um, when it rains, do you 91 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: know what when I was missed the bus when it rained, 92 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: because I would be picking up the worms off the 93 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: pig and putting them back on the grass so they 94 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't get running like in a city. Did you believe 95 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: in God as a little kid, Yeah, very much so. 96 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: In fact, I can remember there's this Bill gaitheror song 97 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: It's God Loves to talk to a little boys while 98 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: they're fishing. It's a very sweet song, and I remember 99 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: my mom used to play it, and I was, you know, 100 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: thought more myself more as a little boy than a 101 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: little girl. But I would go to like one of 102 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: the ponds, you know, and uh like just take a 103 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: stick with a string on it, and like throw it 104 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: in there. And I was like, Okay, now guy's going 105 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: to talk to me. Well, I guess not out loud, okay, 106 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: but um. I have this um memory of my grandmother 107 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: when we were staying with her. She and my grandpa 108 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: built a cottage on towards Lake. This is beautiful lake 109 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: in northern Michigan, has like this crystal blue water. It's 110 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: spring fed anyway. So we'd go and stay with them 111 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: during parts of the summer. And one time I was 112 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: sleeping in the room where my grandma's because you know, 113 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 1: there's a lot of kids there, so we're all like 114 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: kind of doubled up. And I was sleeping in the 115 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 1: room my grandma, and I guess she couldn't sleep, and 116 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: so she was praying aloud about all of us. And 117 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: then I remember she came to me and I was like, oh, 118 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: I gotta lay really still, and you know, she was 119 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: praying for me, like, oh, you know, helped Kelly to 120 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: know how much Kelly Sue my family calls me, helped 121 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: Kelly Sue, do you know how much you love her? 122 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: And some other stuff too. I don't remember this, but 123 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: I was like, whatever happens my grandmother's really praying for me, 124 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: so maybe I'll be okay. You know. I was like 125 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: probably when I was intern, Um, were you worried you 126 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: weren't going to be okay? Well, I think there was, 127 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: like obviously I didn't fit in with my family, right. 128 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: I was like my parents really tried hard with the 129 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: gender stuff, like I was so clearly like a little 130 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: boy growing up, you know. Um, and they tried really hard. 131 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: But also like the world was against that. You know, 132 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: even now the world is against that. So doing better? 133 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, and also they were worried for me, Like 134 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: I think they thought that the world was going to 135 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: crush me, you know, but they just didn't know what 136 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: to do. It was like who gave it? You know? 137 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: It was like somebody gave them a wolverine too, you know, 138 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: to raise What do we need a wolverine? We don't know? 139 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: And so, um, so you moved from Wisconsin to Florida. 140 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: Um and at this time, what's what's your faith situation? 141 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: So my mom um wasn't you know, when we were little, 142 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: was not a Christian, but she became a born again Christian. 143 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: And then when we moved to Florida, I went to 144 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: my mom sent us to a Christian school um, and 145 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: everyone was like, oh, okay, like this is a queer 146 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: kid in the making, Let's see what we can do. 147 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: And I got actually really involved in my church, and 148 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: you know, I would say that I was interested in 149 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: what God wanted for me in my life. And I 150 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: felt like, oh, well, there there's a God. There must 151 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: be some reason for me. You know, I don't really 152 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: know what it is, but there must be, like some 153 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: reason that I exist, and there's something I'm supposed to do. 154 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: When I was in high school and most of my 155 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 1: peers were drinking seema it was eight and giving each 156 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: other when I now know to be was horrible blow jobs, 157 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: I was attending church three times a week, wearing a 158 00:08:55,679 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: no Surfing in Hell t shirt and asking complete strangers, 159 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: excuse me, have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior. 160 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: I was a big bananas born again Christian and my 161 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: mom was a big bananas born again Christians, so that 162 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: made her really happy, except for I was also a big, huge, 163 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: lifelong tomboy, and that made her very sad. One day, 164 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: Kelly came home and found a note from her mom. 165 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: It said, this sounds like something you would love and 166 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 1: there was a Glassie brochure for a missionary training program, 167 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: the Lord's boot Camp. Kelly looked at all the pictures 168 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: of smiling teenagers and thought, oh my god, this looks 169 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,599 Speaker 1: like something I would love. When I arrived at the 170 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: Lord's boot Camp, it was essentially an unimproved Florida wetlands 171 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: and there was we washed our clothes by hand in 172 00:09:55,520 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: sulfur water we pumped. And also the place that we 173 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: were supposed to like wash up, they called it God's Bathtub, 174 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: was just this little area of the swamp that was 175 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: attached to another area of the swamp with this tiny 176 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: little drainage ditch, and in the other area of the 177 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: swamp were two alligators. When we questioned our leaders about it, 178 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: they were like, now, do you really think that an alligator? 179 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: Those alligators are gonna eat five hundred teenagers? And I 180 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: don't really think any of us thought they were gonna 181 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: eat five hundred teenagers, But doesn't even one seem like 182 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: a lot. One of the main features of the camp 183 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: was an obstacle course. They'd run it at five am 184 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: every morning. There is a series of physical challenges based 185 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: on biblical themes, all designed to help them become better disciples. 186 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: The last obstacle in the obstacle course was just called 187 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: the wall, and it was a series of walls, uh, 188 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: and they each were painted with something we would have 189 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: to get over in order to effectively serve Jesus. It 190 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: started with lust, and then pride, and then gluttony, and 191 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: the last wall with sexual confusion. When they weren't running 192 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: an obstacle course, they took classes in how to tie steel, 193 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: lay bricks, run power tools, even mixed concrete by hand, 194 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: all in the service of learning how to build God's kingdom. 195 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: I was having a fantastic time. It was an entire 196 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: summer of being a tomboy, and I returned home with 197 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: this newfound zeal, also with a new haircut. I had 198 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: a spiral perm and I had also attempted to bleach 199 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: my hair surfer blonde with actual bleach, which meant by 200 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: the end of the summer I couldn't even get a 201 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: comb through it. So one of my fault team members 202 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: took a razor and himed off almost all the hair 203 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: on the sides and a lot of the hair on top, 204 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: which of course leaving me a rat tail and back. 205 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: And I looked fantastic. When I walked onto my mom's 206 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: front porch dragging my stinky backpack, I said, Mom, don't 207 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: I look like a new person in Christ And she said, 208 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 1: you look a lot the same. So the teen missions 209 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: thing is like a general evangelical thing, but it was 210 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: being used as like a de facto conversion camp, like 211 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: my mom had hoped that I would come home, you know, changed. 212 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: I mean, they had these classes on uh, like from 213 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: Grubby to Grace and God's Gentlemen, which now I realized 214 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: were like gender appropriateness classes. It was like, you know, 215 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: just like the world's toughest summer camp. It was like 216 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: it was like if the missionaries of charity around a 217 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: fucking summer camp. That's what it was like. So who 218 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: did she want you to be? I don't know, maybe her, 219 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: you know, I think he was worried. She never thought 220 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: of me as like a maskline female. She thought of 221 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: me as like an ugly female, right. And my mom 222 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: was a very beautiful person. She was a very attractive person, 223 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,839 Speaker 1: and that helped her in life. She knew how to 224 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: use it. She knew how to use that attractiveness, and 225 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: it was the kind of also her kind of her stick. 226 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: You know. See, I can remember watching my mom put 227 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: on her makeup her whole life. Like I've watched her 228 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: put on her makeup and talked to her while she 229 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: put on her makeup. I mean, even the smell of 230 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: makeup makes me think of my mom, you know. And 231 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: so what were you searching for then joining the MCS? 232 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: Like you know, I was looking for a life that 233 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: made sense. And what did your mom think of you joining? Um? 234 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: I think you know, she wanted me to have health insurance, 235 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: you know, Like, so she was a little bit like, okay, 236 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, so you already know Kelly joined the m 237 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: CS and it didn't work out, But what did her 238 00:13:51,960 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: life look like after she left? Kelly was incredibly impressed 239 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: by the Missionaries of Charity when she first encountered them. 240 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: She admired their hard work, and she thought she'd found 241 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: her community. She converted to Catholicism, joined the Order, but 242 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: found she wasn't welcomed like other sisters. Maybe some of 243 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: it was her sense of humor, maybe it was her 244 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: appearance or her angry shoulders. Once sister described her as 245 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: scary and in the end, not fitting in took a 246 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: toll on her physically. She left flunked out, as she 247 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: puts it, Yeah, I was so sad when I left, 248 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: you know, because I was like, all right, well, do 249 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: you guys think this is working out? And they're like, 250 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: let us think about it. No. I mean like everyone 251 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: else that left, they were like begging them to stay. 252 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: Not me, They're like by and um, I remember where 253 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: my mom was with my sister. When she took me up, 254 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: she was like, you seem like you're grieving, like that 255 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: was the word she used. And I was like, well, 256 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: first of all, it's like this big germanic goodbye. I'm 257 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: off to marry Jesus. Goodbye. Oh hi, I'm back now, 258 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, um, so first it 259 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: was like kind of anticlimactic, but it wasn't even just that. 260 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: It was just like it just felt like it just 261 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: felt like you're here, oh here, Jesus, here is my life. 262 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: I give it to you, and Jesus is like smack. 263 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: Everybody wants your dumb gift of your dumb life, you know. 264 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: After she left the m c S. She started nursing school, 265 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: joined a softball team, and spent time with the Catholic 266 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: Worker Movement, a progressive faith based group, and she was 267 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: talking to a friend there one day and she was like, Kelly, like, 268 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: I know people who are um trying to suppress their 269 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: sexual orientation, and I watched them not be able to 270 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: love the people around them the way they should because 271 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: that's where all their energies going. And I was like, 272 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: you know what, that's true, and I've seen that a lot, 273 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: and that's not what I want. Like, if I really 274 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: believe in love, if I really think that love is 275 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: something that changes lives and helps people, then I just 276 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: have to be myself. Oh yeah. So I was raised 277 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: a strict evangelical Christian and when I came out to 278 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: my mom, she ripped up my birth certificate and sent 279 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: it to me. Yeah, and I was complaining about it 280 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: to my therapist. So I'm like, oh, that was so 281 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: past aggressive, and she's like, no, Kelly, that was aggressive. 282 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: So I take it to the countercler's office and he 283 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: looked at me and then looked at the pieces and 284 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: looked at me and then looked at the pieces and 285 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: he thought for a minute. He said, we get a 286 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: lot of this from people who looked like you, which 287 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: tells you my mom was not as original as she thought. 288 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: She was my mom would say that that is not 289 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: what happened. Uh, different narrative. Um, my mom was a 290 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: dramatic person. It was a very dramatic reaction, like okay. 291 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: Also even when she sent it to me, so I 292 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: was like, this doesn't you can send me my birth 293 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: certificate all you want. It doesn't make me not your kid, 294 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like, that's not how that works. Uh, 295 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: you know. And we didn't really have a relationship for 296 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: a long time, Like I went long periods of time 297 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: without seeing her. Um. I think it didn't really even 298 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: become comedy early in my comedy career because it was 299 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: still so unresolved. I think it was still to raw 300 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: and me for other people to laugh at it. Kelly 301 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: met Heather at the Newark Airport Hotel during a queer conference. 302 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 1: They both went to Christian High school. They both knew 303 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: all of the words to the chorus of the Trumpet 304 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: of Jesus, and that was that. They started dating long distance. 305 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: At the time, Heather wasn't remissioned from ovarian cancer. Within 306 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: the first six months of their dating, it came back. 307 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: Heather would call Kelly to get through the night to 308 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: keep her distracted with stories and jokes until she could 309 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: take her next dose of a heavy painkiller. It became 310 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: clear that she was going to die, you know, maybe 311 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: not right away, but eventually. Like this wasn't a long 312 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: term relationship, you know. And Heather struggle at first, like 313 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: she was like, well, who starts a relationship when they're 314 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: so late in life? You know, Um, it just doesn't 315 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: seem like it follows the rule book, like she you know, 316 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: I think she didn't know if I was going to 317 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: be able to stick it into the end. I knew 318 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: I was going to be able to stick into the end. 319 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: I knew what I've been through, you know. Um, but 320 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: there was something really beautiful about being able to be 321 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: the right person at the right time. That was in 322 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: the same way that like the mission and the charity 323 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,239 Speaker 1: just felt like, oh, I'm like, oh, this is what 324 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be doing, this is this is I'm 325 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: answering this call. I felt like I was answering the call. 326 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: We kind of try to have sense of humor about 327 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: it or in the house. I mean, I'm a stand 328 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: of comic. And she was a total smartass, so able 329 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: to the two of us. For example, one day when 330 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: she was really she had been on keyboard for a 331 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: one time. She wasn't feeling that well, and I called 332 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 1: her from the supermarket. I said, um, is there anything 333 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: I can bring you? And there is a long silence 334 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: and she said, yeah, how about a quarter pounds of 335 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: a Will to Live? Oh God fine. So I was like, 336 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: well she's going there. I'm gonna go there too. And 337 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, honey, you know how it isn't 338 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: a trigger. Jose and Billy had organic and now I 339 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: don't get it all out, so just already that she 340 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: came back, She's like, huh damn. Kelly calls the day 341 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,239 Speaker 1: how they died, Pudding Day, how they chose to end 342 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: her life surrounded by chosen family with a lethal dose 343 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: of medication mixed into a pudding cup. All this time 344 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: through the real relationship Head There's Illness Nursing School comedy sets, 345 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: Kelly's relationship with her mom remainstreamed until her stepfather's dementia 346 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: became worse and she flew home to help. He was 347 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: a retired army colonel and everyone still called him the colonel, 348 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,239 Speaker 1: and so lost of people when they developed dementia, they 349 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: forget the names of their kids or where they live, 350 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: or you know, they're most fond childhood memories. That is 351 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: not what happened to the colonel. The colonel forgot. He 352 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: was a jerk, I think, because he forgot where the 353 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: scotch was. So I went to my mom's home and 354 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: helped her set up hospice. And the colonel was lovely 355 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: to me, was like, oh color, and I just I 356 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: love your I love your haircutt Soldier. I love the 357 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: ultimate compliment, I love your haircuts Soldier. That's oh Ron, 358 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: That's fantastic all. And we thought that he might not 359 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 1: make it until Christmas. And he was really so you know, 360 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: cognitively impaired at that point that he couldn't even follow sitcom. 361 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: So my mom loved the christ his tree, and he 362 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: asked her just to turn off the lights and he 363 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: just watched the tree, and every so often he would say, 364 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: that's a heck of a tree, and ants, that's a 365 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: heck of a tree. And so I would sit with 366 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: my mom, watch her as she would put on makeup, 367 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,959 Speaker 1: and I wanted to tell her it was gonna be okay, 368 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: but I knew it wasn't that, so I just sat 369 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: with her. I don't know. Something really changed that year. 370 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: We just talked about our lives and you know, kind 371 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: of what was important in life and what wasn't and 372 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: not having any regrets and um, and it healed in 373 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: a way that I had never thought was possible. So 374 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: the colonel died a few days before Christmas. And when 375 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: people came to drop off food and UM saying, you know, 376 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: send their condolen says. My Mom's response was, this is 377 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: my daughter, Kelly. She's also a widow. She lost her 378 00:21:49,520 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: spouse as well. What's a moment that happened that you 379 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: would have never expected to came? Um, she came to 380 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: watch me perform at the Stonewall Inn in June. The 381 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: story of Kelly's mom at the historic Stonewall Inn in 382 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 1: a moment. All right, so my mom. Nine years I've 383 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: been performing, she has never seen me perform. You know 384 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: where My mom wanted to come see me perform in 385 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: the middle of June on the anniversary of Stonewall at 386 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: the Stonewall Inn. The gayest thing ever, Right, it's the 387 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: gayest thing I've ever done. Guess who I was opening for? 388 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: Lenny Breedlove. Who Lenny Breed Love Performance Artists queer performance artist. Now, 389 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: you remember Lenny's last show where Lenny like had a 390 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: little stuffed animals like Hi, I identify as an elephant. 391 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: HI identifies a teddy bear, right, very cute, very tame. 392 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: I thought that that's the show that Lenny would be doing. No, 393 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: oh no, in the show, my mom came to Lenny 394 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: walked on the stage wearing nothing but a dick, and also, 395 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: for no apparent reason that I could figure out, there 396 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: was twenty minutes of Lenny peeing into a bucket on stage. Now, 397 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: if you've ever been upstairs at the Stone Wall, you 398 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: know that the stage is maybe two or three feet 399 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: from the front row where my mom was sitting. So 400 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: I'm sitting in the audience thinking my mom and Lindy 401 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: breed Love are having a golden shower scene. And then 402 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: I said the words I have not said before or since. 403 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: I turned her friend, and I said, would you please 404 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: get my mom some more wine? So, um, we got 405 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: through that incident more or less okay, But oh the 406 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: questions the next day at breakfast, so she's like trying 407 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: to figure things out, right, So she's like, so there 408 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: is a woman a man, no, a woman, No, a 409 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: woman dressed like a man sitting on the lap of 410 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: the woman. The man, No, the woman dressed like a man. 411 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: Is that the way it always is? By this time, 412 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: Kelly had met her partner, Cheryl, a writer into poet. 413 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: Cheryl was at the stone Wall performance too, and Kelly 414 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: introduced her to her mom. She was like, she's beautiful 415 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, I know, she's um. Yeah. 416 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: She was like, Kelly, UM, in your subculture? And I 417 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: was like, I didn't even know she knew the word subculture. Uh, 418 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: in your subculture? Are you considered attractive? And I was like, yeah, 419 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: I'm actually in my subculture, I am considered attractive. There's 420 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: like some women that want to date a masculine female. Ah. 421 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: And she was like, oh, I didn't have any idea. 422 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: And that actually just made her so relieved, you know. 423 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: And I think she started thinking me as more her 424 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: son than her daughter, and I think that helped to um. Wow. Yeah. 425 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: I was curious at that moment at stone Wall, at 426 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: that performance, if like seeing your mom there and your 427 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 1: friends there and your girlfriend they're like all hanging out 428 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: having this time. Does that sort of like I mean, 429 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: when I think back of like you as a teen 430 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: having these questions about your purpose. You know, that moment 431 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: where you sort of done in your searching and did 432 00:25:54,680 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 1: you have answers? I felt happy for sure. I mean 433 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: I think, you know, I don't know if anyone's ever 434 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: done and they're searching, you know. Um, it was a 435 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: moment who that it felt like a lot of people 436 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: worked really hard to get to that moment helped me 437 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: get to that moment, you know, like my mom's gay hairdresser. 438 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: You know, my mom had been watching Ellen for a 439 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: long time, you know, Lenny even who like when they 440 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: saw my mom just gave my mom a big hug, 441 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: like they've been waiting their whole lives to hug each other. 442 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: You know. Um, it seemed like there was some people 443 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: who are interested in me and her being happy and 444 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: me and her being friends, and that's really nice, you know. 445 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: And also that she got to experience it, you know, 446 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: she got to experience what it feels like to be 447 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: to be loved by chosen family mhm. And then unbelievably, 448 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: Cheryl was diagnosed with Hodgkins lymphoma. And how did your 449 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: mom and Cheryl get along? My My mom loves Cheryl. Um. Yeah, 450 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,719 Speaker 1: like when Cheryl started chemo. My mom bought her bunny 451 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: slippers and like fussed over her, and like my mom 452 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,479 Speaker 1: triked really hard to like give a Cheryl some mom energy. 453 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: And Cheryl really appreciated that, and I appreciate it. And 454 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: my sister was like, weren't you jealous? And I was 455 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: like no, in a way, that's like perfect because I 456 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: get to observe that love towards somebody I love, and 457 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: it's not complicated the way it would be between us, 458 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: you know, so I actually really appreciate that. Kelly says 459 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: that whenever there's a tragedy in her life, she does 460 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: a show. When Cheryl died, she booked a whole Southern 461 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: comedy tour. I don't know how people get through stuff 462 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: without having an outlet of writing about it and performing 463 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: by it and trying to make it funny. I don't 464 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: really know. It just seems like, wow, I it seems brave. 465 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: I want things. I'm being involved with someone who has 466 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: to see yoursellness, and I really like it gives you 467 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: a perspective. Um It definitely lenges the assumptions that the 468 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: universe is a good place right, definitely challenges those assumptions, like, 469 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: you know, like those bumper stickers and say God is 470 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: good all the time. I'm like, well, by the God 471 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 1: is good, but about the all the time part, right, 472 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: because some kids getting nukedia and some kid's getta pooy. 473 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: That's okay, you can laugh at my therapist totally does. 474 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: Kelly lives in Brooklyn in an apartment she affectionately calls 475 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: Queer study Hall. There's always a revolving door of friends 476 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: coming through. She's a community school director and she works 477 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,719 Speaker 1: part time as a nurse, and she's developing a new 478 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: comedy tour fifty churches in fifty states ask for her faith. 479 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: Kelly stopped going to church after her time in the 480 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: Missionaries of Charity. Actually, if you look at the world, 481 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: it does seem like there is a God, but it 482 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: seems like God hates us, right, That's what it really 483 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: looks like. You know, um, the Haiti earthquake and then 484 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: a color epidemic, you know, like come on. But after 485 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: a while she discovered it was actually harder not to 486 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: be involved in a spiritual practice than it was to 487 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: do it. Why fight it? So she found a church 488 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: in New York, a very open church. In fact, she says, 489 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: the pastor once said that even atheists are welcome, and 490 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: I was like, I think this is my church, the 491 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: church where they don't care what you believe in. But 492 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: that almost in a sense doesn't matter. What matters is 493 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: like the community and the connection and trying to find meaning. 494 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: You know, the meaning is like for me, the meaning 495 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: is the spirituality, like trying to find meaning in like 496 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: whatever I experience, like try and convert whatever difficulty it 497 00:29:45,520 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: is into something that can help other people. Did you 498 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: talk about um, your mom's death with her? Did you 499 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: talk about death with her? Oh? All the time. It's 500 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: like her favorite subject for the last five years. Kelly's 501 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: mom died at the end of April after a year 502 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: and assisted living and then hospice. She had a form 503 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: of blood cancer. Kelly flew to Florida to be with her. 504 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: Her mom didn't ask her to come because, as Kelly says, 505 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: she's not a complainer, but Kelly went anyway. When we 506 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: were kids, like I remember being like, don't put me 507 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: on a machine, and we're like, Mom, we're just going 508 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: through the McDonald's drive through right now, but okay, don't 509 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: put on a machine. Got it? And she always said, 510 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of um, I'm 511 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: afraid of suffering, and I'm afraid of being alone. Every 512 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: conversation for the last year, she said, they shoot horses, 513 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: don't they. She really was like she's I think it 514 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: made her really, you know, she had a very honest relationship, 515 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: I think with God. But she always said, like, I 516 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: just keep asking why am I still here. Kelly talked 517 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: to the staff at the assist at living facility, and 518 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: they'd say things like I love your mom's laugh, and 519 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: I just want to tell you this great thing your 520 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: mom did for me. At one point, even the director 521 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: of the facility was in tears talking about Kelly's mom. 522 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: So Kelly had an answer to her mom's question. I 523 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: came back and I was like, Mom, like, I I 524 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: can't tell you why you were here, but I can 525 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: tell you, like why God gave you this extra year 526 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: that you has been so difficult, But I can tell 527 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: you that you made people's lives. People at a assisted 528 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: living facility in Florida, in the middle of a pandemic, 529 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: the epicenter right, you made their lives easier and some 530 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: of the like the hardest times they will ever imagine. 531 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: I was like you change, like you brought light in 532 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: this like terrible difficult year. Um, you know, and I 533 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: was holding her hand when she died, so she got 534 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: she got what she wanted, you know, So she wasn't 535 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: and she wasn't suffering. So do you think that your 536 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: time with the Missionaries of Charity, all this sitting in 537 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: silence with others helped you be there for your mom? 538 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: I mean sure, you know, we spend years doing that. 539 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: You develop that capacity, and you develop also that it's 540 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: not an uncomfortable thing, like we could be quiet, you know. Um. 541 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: Even like one of the hospice doctors was like, yeah, 542 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: usually when you come into her room, people are just 543 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: like and there's an unconsciousnation. People are just chattering at 544 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: them or talking around them, you know, even though we 545 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,239 Speaker 1: know the hearing is the last to go. And I 546 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: was like, well I don't there's not some secret I 547 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: need to tell my mom now, Like we've known she 548 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: was going to die for a long time and and she, uh, 549 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: like we've said what we needed to say, Like what 550 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: else am I going to say now? You know? Um? 551 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: But I think like the comfort with silence is I 552 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: guess the two things are like you know, being a nun, 553 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: and also stand up comedy, because definitely stand up comedy. 554 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: You know, you have to when you have to wait 555 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: for the laugh. That silence feels like a really long time, 556 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: but if you can hold the silence, you'll get a 557 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: bigger laugh. So I talk about that, And so now 558 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: people ask me where I am theologically um, And I 559 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: don't really worry so much about the afterlife, except for 560 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: maybe that it just sounds exhausting, like another life after 561 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: this one. I only want that if I can sit 562 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: on a couch and watch HBO documentaries. Otherwise I'm out. 563 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: But uh, you know, there was an attraction of like, 564 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, baby butch nuns and priests and drag and 565 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: groovy smelling incense. But also there was like the wonder 566 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: of like thinking you knew all the answers, then that 567 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: if everyone thought like you, the world would just be fine. 568 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: There was a lot of power in that um. And 569 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: sometimes even now, I'll I'll hear like him being sung 570 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: and Catholic church as I walked by, and I'll get 571 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: kind of nostalgic, and I was think, oh well, and 572 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: then remember, you know, I was married to that guy, 573 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: and he was a little bit of a Jerk. I'm 574 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: Kelly Dunham. Thank you. M m m hm. This episode 575 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: was written and produced by Emily Foreman. Our editor is 576 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: Rob Rosenthal, Andrea Swah is our digital producer. Special thanks 577 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 1: to Amy Gaines, Sarah oh Lender, Bethan Macaluso, Travis Dunlap, 578 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: and consulting producer Mary Johnson. Her memoir and Unquenchable Thirst 579 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: provided inspiration for this series. Our executive producers are Jessica 580 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: Alpert and John Parati at Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvelle 581 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: at iHeart Radio. For photos and more details on this series, 582 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Rococo Punch. You can reach 583 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: out via emailed to the Turning at for Coco Punch 584 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: dot com. I'm America Lance, thanks for listening. M m 585 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: m m m m mmmmm