WEBVTT - 051124 How to Talk to Someone with a Different Opinion (Part 1)

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<v Speaker 1>Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to

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<v Speaker 1>welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our

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<v Speaker 1>mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I'm your host, Rams' job, he.

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<v Speaker 2>Is Rams' jah, I am q war. Do you I

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<v Speaker 2>turned into Civic cyclent.

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<v Speaker 1>Died you are and we're going to need you to

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<v Speaker 1>stick around today. We've been noticing, uh, increasingly noticing that

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<v Speaker 1>we are living in a divided society. We've been noticing

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<v Speaker 1>that for the past four years since we've known the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Drake and Kendrick really do have the country and that

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<v Speaker 2>really stood out to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that too, that too. But in addition to that,

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<v Speaker 1>what we're seeing happening on college campuses really illustrates that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, even something as far away as a war

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<v Speaker 1>in Gaza can have significant locasions here stateside, and there

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<v Speaker 1>are people that feel one way about it and people

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<v Speaker 1>that feel another way about it. On this show, where

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<v Speaker 1>of the persuasion that you know, Palestine needs to be free,

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<v Speaker 1>and we end up having conversations with people who feel like,

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<v Speaker 1>how would I say Israel has a right to defend itself?

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<v Speaker 1>That's probably what they would stand.

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<v Speaker 2>On, right yeah, those those are not inherently conflicting ideals.

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<v Speaker 1>Though, right right, But that's of it is what makes

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<v Speaker 1>the problem. But they would base their they would base

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<v Speaker 1>their argument around that, and we end up having to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to people who have differing opinions. And sometimes we

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<v Speaker 1>are successful and we'd like to share our best practices

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<v Speaker 1>with you when we have those successful ones. And then

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes we learn, and we're going to hopefully be able

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<v Speaker 1>to share with you what we learn when you know,

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<v Speaker 1>those conversations devolve, but you know, hopefully this helps you

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<v Speaker 1>in your activism and in your pursuit of a more

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<v Speaker 1>equitable world for all. But before we get there, it's

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<v Speaker 1>time for some ebony excellence.

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<v Speaker 2>Shall we?

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<v Speaker 1>I think we shall.

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<v Speaker 2>This week's Ebony Excellence is brought to you by Actively Black.

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<v Speaker 2>Visit actively black dot com. There is greatness in our DNA.

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<v Speaker 2>The story comes from twelve news dot com in Tempe, Arizona.

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<v Speaker 2>While most eighteen year olds are trying to choose what

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<v Speaker 2>college to attend, one is wrapping up her college career.

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<v Speaker 2>Dorothy Gene Tilman stands out this graduation season not just

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<v Speaker 2>because of her age, but also her list of accomplishments.

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<v Speaker 2>Tilman a student at Arizona State University. Has earned her

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<v Speaker 2>associate degree at eleven years old, earned her bachelor's degree

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<v Speaker 2>at thirteen, and was just fifteen when she completed the

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<v Speaker 2>master's program. Now eighteen, Tillman has earned her doctorate in

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<v Speaker 2>behavioral health. She says, and I quote, I never really

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<v Speaker 2>thought that this would be like what it turned into,

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<v Speaker 2>she said, once I started, you know, getting into higher education,

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<v Speaker 2>kind of just every time I complete something, I thought like,

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<v Speaker 2>what's next, and now I'm here, wow. End quote. Aside

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<v Speaker 2>from her numerous degrees, Tillman also started a leadership institute

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<v Speaker 2>where she teaches children in Chicago and West Africa about science, technology, engineering, arts,

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<v Speaker 2>and math. She hopes to use all that she has

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<v Speaker 2>learned to change lives. More than twenty thousand Arizona State

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<v Speaker 2>University students graduated Monday night, signaling the end of their

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<v Speaker 2>undergraduate years in college. Seven thousand, including Tillman, received their

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<v Speaker 2>postgraduate degrees Monday morning, the largest graduation in Arizona State

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<v Speaker 2>University history. And that young lady, it was hard for

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<v Speaker 2>me to even finish reading that story from the first

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<v Speaker 2>accomplishment associated we ad eleven years old, froze me. I

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<v Speaker 2>had to push myself to keep reading her that all

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<v Speaker 2>that she's doing, and to have the immediate space in

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<v Speaker 2>her mind to say, I want to give back, I

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<v Speaker 2>want to teach help and mentor others. Salute to her,

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<v Speaker 2>and we will be following her story moving forward.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that's very special, all right. So how to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to someone with a different opinion, different political opinion.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're in this space, as you can imagine, we

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<v Speaker 1>have a radio show with I mean, these shouldn't be

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<v Speaker 1>radical opinions and views, they shouldn't be at all. We

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<v Speaker 1>only pursue equitable treatment for everyone. And sometimes equity means

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<v Speaker 1>these people get a little bit more consideration than these people.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the nature of equity. And we have to appeal

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<v Speaker 1>to people who sometimes feel like equity means that they

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<v Speaker 1>lose something. Equality even means that they lose something or

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<v Speaker 1>otherwise they think that equality solves all of the problems

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<v Speaker 1>when there has indeed been a four hundred year head

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<v Speaker 1>start on their behalf.

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<v Speaker 2>And sadly, even in the case of the latter, even

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<v Speaker 2>those feel like equality is taking too much away from them.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's an interesting starting place where an inequitable reality

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<v Speaker 2>for most has created a reality for a few who

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<v Speaker 2>feel like even less than equity, it's too much for

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<v Speaker 2>them to concede on your behalf because it makes something

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<v Speaker 2>less than it was for.

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<v Speaker 1>Them, exactly exactly. So on our path, we've had to

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<v Speaker 1>have some challenging conversations with people who disagree with us,

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<v Speaker 1>and the reason why we felt confident enough putting this

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<v Speaker 1>segment together. And spoiler alert, we're working on a book

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<v Speaker 1>about Allyship. I'd imagine that'd be out in several months.

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<v Speaker 1>It's going to take us a while to get that

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<v Speaker 1>on the shelves for you. But we're really passionate about

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<v Speaker 1>this work, and we really think that we're capable of more,

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<v Speaker 1>and with your support and your help, we think that

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<v Speaker 1>we can actually make an impact in this world. And

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<v Speaker 1>so that's what we're doing. But in any event, having

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<v Speaker 1>the experience the growth that the show has experienced now

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<v Speaker 1>being on Coast to Coast seventy plus radio stage seventy five,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's stations around the country, We've had many

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<v Speaker 1>conversations with people who feel very differently about what should

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<v Speaker 1>take place politically speaking, and yet and still we have

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<v Speaker 1>earned these people's trust and support, and so today's conversation

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<v Speaker 1>is not an exhaustive list, but we do hope that

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<v Speaker 1>you can learn a little bit from what we've learned

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<v Speaker 1>and the conversations that you do have with people who

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<v Speaker 1>disagree with you, maybe they're in your family, maybe in

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<v Speaker 1>the workplace, that they will penetrate a little bit deeper.

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<v Speaker 1>Before we start, I want to share a tweet that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of inspired this now. Charlotte reposted this on his

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<v Speaker 1>social media charlottne and God or see the God for

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<v Speaker 1>those on Instagram, reposted this. But the tweet was authored

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<v Speaker 1>by a person named Stephen Barlett I believe. I believe

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<v Speaker 1>he's the author, But it says being able to hold

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<v Speaker 1>a strong opinion without having a visceral hatred towards everyone

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<v Speaker 1>else that doesn't hold that opinion seems to be becoming

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<v Speaker 1>increasingly difficult for people on social media. Right. In other words,

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<v Speaker 1>if I have an opinion and you have a different opinion,

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<v Speaker 1>more often is it the case that I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>attack than engage. Right, And before we get into any

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<v Speaker 1>of the meat and potatoes here, let me just say

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<v Speaker 1>full disclosure. I famously, for those that follow us on

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<v Speaker 1>social media, I famously post in ghost I don't interact

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<v Speaker 1>with anybody in the comments. I don't want to hear it.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, and I all the love somehow, I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like in my heart all the love makes its way

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<v Speaker 1>to me, and all the negative nasty comments they don't.

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<v Speaker 1>But the truth is is like I don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>get burnt out on the type of good work that

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<v Speaker 1>I think that we're doing here. And if I listen

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<v Speaker 1>to everyone in the comments, it's very easy for me

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<v Speaker 1>to get burned out. And I think of myself as

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<v Speaker 1>a resilient person. But anyone can succumb to hear seeing

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<v Speaker 1>negative comments about yourself every day. Oh it's his beard, fake,

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<v Speaker 1>he glued his hair on. Even like superficial attacks like

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<v Speaker 1>that they take their toll after a long time. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>But let me tell you, let me make this social

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<v Speaker 1>media story come to life a little bit. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>friend of mine and a friend of this show. His

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<v Speaker 1>name is Amy Horwitz, and he's been on the show

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<v Speaker 1>many times, and he and I have had and Q

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<v Speaker 1>have had some knockdown, drag out agreements. I always say

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<v Speaker 1>that two things are true about Amy. One is that

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<v Speaker 1>he and I agree on almost nothing. Almost nothing I

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<v Speaker 1>would say nothing politically speaking. Number Two, I believe Amy

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<v Speaker 1>is a good man. He loves his mom. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>feel like he has any sort of personal anger toward me.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe that he thinks what he's doing is right,

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<v Speaker 1>and I believe in his human capacity for that to

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<v Speaker 1>evolve as he learns and grows through life. Mine. Everyone

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<v Speaker 1>deserves to be able to learn and grow, and so

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<v Speaker 1>he's not a lost cause.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think he has some very obvious blind spots

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of make it hard to be a great person.

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<v Speaker 2>And not because he does not have the capacity, which

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<v Speaker 2>I think is important that that grace is extended. But

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<v Speaker 2>anybody who at the same time has the capacity to

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<v Speaker 2>view one entire group of people, well that's less than

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<v Speaker 2>for me that that creates a It creates some hesitation

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<v Speaker 2>with regard to how I, how I view you, when

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<v Speaker 2>there's people who, without ever having interacted with them, you'd

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<v Speaker 2>consider less worthy of all that we all look for

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<v Speaker 2>and desire in life for ourselves and those that we

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<v Speaker 2>care about.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, sure, sure, and that's that's that's not unkind. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's fair. I'm just saying that these are two

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<v Speaker 1>things that I say about Ammy. And in full disclosure,

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<v Speaker 1>Amy is planning on coming out here to hang out

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<v Speaker 1>with me, and I think that's beautiful, you know. I

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<v Speaker 1>I think that Amy can learn from me, and maybe

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<v Speaker 1>I'll even learn something from him. Who knows right, And

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<v Speaker 1>Amy is the exact type of person that infuriates me.

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<v Speaker 1>But I actually know this one, right, I like know him.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't. I don't know him knowing, but I know

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<v Speaker 1>his mom. I know you know, it's family and blah

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<v Speaker 1>blah blah. Right. Anyway, now that you know a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit out Amy, if you haven't heard any of his

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<v Speaker 1>episodes where we were yelling at each other on the mic,

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<v Speaker 1>Amy has a post on his social media he went

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<v Speaker 1>to one of the protests and at New York Community

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<v Speaker 1>College something like that, and he says, and he's a

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<v Speaker 1>gorilla journalist, right, So he gets his camera crew and

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<v Speaker 1>goes out there and tries to you know, he's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like a man on the streets type of journalist. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>he goes out there with the American flag and he says,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, hi, I'm Amy Horowitz, and today we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to see what these protesters think when I show up

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<v Speaker 1>with the American flag. Right, And a little bit of background,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're not familiar with these college campus protests. There

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<v Speaker 1>are a lot of pro Palestine protests taking place around

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<v Speaker 1>the country, people creating encampments, barricading themselves into rooms and

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<v Speaker 1>so forth, whatever my kind of party. I love when

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<v Speaker 1>people like direct action. I kind of love that, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And these people who are protesting feel like these universities

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<v Speaker 1>need to stop, to divest from Israel, stop sending money,

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<v Speaker 1>spending money on Israeli businesses, and they're hoping the ripple

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<v Speaker 1>effect will be that the Israeli government will receive pressure

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<v Speaker 1>from the Israeli businesses and the Israeli government will adopt

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<v Speaker 1>a softer position with respect to their bombing campaigns in Gaza.

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<v Speaker 1>These people who are protesting also feel like the United

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<v Speaker 1>States is very very very much culpable, because the United

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<v Speaker 1>States is actually funding the war and sending over the

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<v Speaker 1>bombs that are being used to, you know, blow human

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<v Speaker 1>bodies apart into pieces, the bodies of children and so forth,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is kind of what makes those people's stomach turns.

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<v Speaker 1>So the United States being culpable means that these group

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<v Speaker 1>of protesters are particularly sensitive to the American flag being

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<v Speaker 1>introduced in their decidedly anti Israeli, anti US government stance.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's kind of part of what I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So Ami does this, I'm sure like that to.

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<v Speaker 2>Get that type of reaction intentionally to then ahai you

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<v Speaker 2>and say, see this is how they feel about America.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a very very intellectually and emotionally dishonest thing

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<v Speaker 2>to do.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm glad you said that.

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<v Speaker 2>So that again that gives me some paus Man.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I'm glad you said that because on ami

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<v Speaker 1>social media where he posted this, he was saying, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I went out there and these people they beat me

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<v Speaker 1>up and blah blah blah. And I says, okay, Amy,

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<v Speaker 1>Well and I explained basically what I just explained, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>these people are they feel Israel and the United States

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<v Speaker 1>are responsible for this, So showing up with an American

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<v Speaker 1>flag is like kind of like antagonizing and agitating them.

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<v Speaker 1>And so if you're going there looking for that and

0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 1>then you get it, it doesn't it doesn't feel like

0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:00.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, and a lot of his videos I'm very

0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.120
<v Speaker 1>critical of because it feels like that's kind of the angle.

0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.680
<v Speaker 1>He's just like, let me figure out a way to

0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:11.240
<v Speaker 1>show the people that view my footage what they want

0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.720
<v Speaker 1>to see, not what's really there, you know what I mean.

0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 1>And you know, when you like a counter demonstration of

0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.120
<v Speaker 1>counter protest, normally that it takes place across the street,

0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, somewhere. You know, you don't get in the

0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:25.280
<v Speaker 1>picket line with.

0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Bringing the counter protest to the protest to then point

0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.440
<v Speaker 2>at the protesters as bad people for responding to you. Again,

0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.640
<v Speaker 2>sure and emotionally an intellectually dishonest and manipulative thing to do.

0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 1>So here's what happens. So I says I said that

0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:42.280
<v Speaker 1>on his social media, and man if his people didn't

0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.920
<v Speaker 1>rip me apart. They're like, this is America. You have

0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.080
<v Speaker 1>a right to do. The protesters can wave the Palestinian flags,

0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.320
<v Speaker 1>but army can't wave the American flag. Oh look at

0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.320
<v Speaker 1>this guy, he's a goofy corn blah blah blah blah.

0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Some of them actually saw the page and they're like,

0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:58.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, put some respect on my name because I'm him,

0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:00.280
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. But they still have something

0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.720
<v Speaker 1>to say, right, because they think I'm just a comment. Right,

0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.640
<v Speaker 1>they don't know that I'm I get to hang out

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 1>with q Ward every week, right, So they don't know

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.640
<v Speaker 1>that you actually, they don't know that you're an activist.

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 2>That's the that's the best way to say that you're

0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.480
<v Speaker 2>just a commenter and an ignorant commentar with it that

0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 2>that has nothing invested in what he's talking about, or

0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.480
<v Speaker 2>that is as lacking in the way of being able

0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 2>to support his position as they are.

0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Now here's the other part of it. Whenever I talk

0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:35.720
<v Speaker 1>to Amy and and he's he hit me back with

0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.080
<v Speaker 1>the response and I and I did check that response

0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.080
<v Speaker 1>out because it says it's from Amy and he's he's

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.920
<v Speaker 1>my friend on social or civic Sipher follows Ami Horowitz.

0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 1>We respect him as a journalist, you know, for what

0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 1>that's worth, and we do it's it's it's important to

0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.040
<v Speaker 1>have insight into how people on his side of the

0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.480
<v Speaker 1>coin think. And what I've learned is weird. Does this

0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.920
<v Speaker 1>sounds is? You know? Q always said this to me,

0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:06.120
<v Speaker 1>and I knew he was telling me the truth, and

0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.560
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate you saying this to me, but it didn't

0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.960
<v Speaker 1>really become real until just this past week when I

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:17.600
<v Speaker 1>had this exchange with Amy. We agree on way more

0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.200
<v Speaker 1>stuff than we disagree on, right, and Q was speaking

0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:24.960
<v Speaker 1>I always in a more general sense about you know, Democrats, Republicans, conservative.

0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Liberals, but human beings.

0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Human beings.

0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:27.160
<v Speaker 2>There you go.

0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:32.480
<v Speaker 1>But Amy and I we disagree on everything, every single thing.

0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 1>But that's not really the whole story. And here's what happened.

0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:44.400
<v Speaker 1>Ammy and I ended up getting on the phone together,

0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.280
<v Speaker 1>and uh, because he said, hey, you know in the comments,

0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.040
<v Speaker 1>he's like, hey, these people did beat me up, Ramses.

0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 1>I have bruises all over my body. I can send

0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.080
<v Speaker 1>you the photographs if you want, And I says, yes, Ammy,

0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.720
<v Speaker 1>if you send me those photographs, I'll review them and

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.360
<v Speaker 1>then I can put together a story with journalistic integrity

0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.360
<v Speaker 1>and discuss it, maybe on the Black Information Network, maybe

0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:09.440
<v Speaker 1>on Civic side for the show you're listening to right now.

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.679
<v Speaker 1>And I haven't received those yet. I'm not saying Amy

0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:15.760
<v Speaker 1>is you know, he may not have seen the comment,

0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.439
<v Speaker 1>doesn't matter. But after I sent the comment, and you know,

0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:22.480
<v Speaker 1>people reacted to that comment trying to rip me apart.

0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:25.600
<v Speaker 1>Ammy and I got on the phone and I'll tell

0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.119
<v Speaker 1>the story of why we got on the phone in

0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:29.960
<v Speaker 1>the second half of the show. But we got on

0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.520
<v Speaker 1>the phone and at first I shot him a text

0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:36.960
<v Speaker 1>because he didn't answer the first call, and I was like,

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:41.520
<v Speaker 1>or I facetimed him, and he didn't answer, and I

0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:42.960
<v Speaker 1>shot him a text. I was like, hey man, just

0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:44.679
<v Speaker 1>checking up on you, hoping all is well with you

0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.240
<v Speaker 1>and your family. And that was that. And he called

0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.240
<v Speaker 1>me back thirty minutes something like that, and he's like,

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.160
<v Speaker 1>hey man, you know, I'm in the airport. Now he talks.

0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:54.919
<v Speaker 1>He's like, hey man, I'm in the airport wherever he

0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.760
<v Speaker 1>was at. And he's like, you know, I just didn't

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.280
<v Speaker 1>I didn't hear my phone ringing. I was like, yeah, man,

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.960
<v Speaker 1>you know. And then we got to talking about that

0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:09.840
<v Speaker 1>that video post, and I was able to tell him that,

0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't love that. I do love him.

0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:20.639
<v Speaker 1>I think he's his methods are more antagonistic than I

0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.400
<v Speaker 1>would appreciate. And to be fair, you may not have

0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:28.320
<v Speaker 1>the capacity the patience to be as diplomatic as as me. I.

0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:30.280
<v Speaker 1>The Q always tells me I have like a special

0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:35.000
<v Speaker 1>gift or something. I don't know that I do. I

0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.200
<v Speaker 1>just I'm very committed to if I.

0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Do know that you do, and our listeners can can

0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.960
<v Speaker 2>understand where I'm coming from. You just finish explaining that

0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:50.760
<v Speaker 2>you and Amy disagree on everything, not some things, not

0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.200
<v Speaker 2>most things, all of it, everything, and then you follow

0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:55.719
<v Speaker 2>that up with he's a great man and I love him,

0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.880
<v Speaker 2>and that's my friend good Man. Yeah, that's a special quality, brother,

0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.119
<v Speaker 2>that's not There's no one on this earth that I

0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.479
<v Speaker 2>would disagree with on everything, and then follow that up

0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.040
<v Speaker 2>by telling you how much I love and appreciate them

0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:08.840
<v Speaker 2>as my friend and how great a person they are.

0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Because disagreeing on everything means that there's some fundamental principle.

0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.680
<v Speaker 1>Sure, and that's imposed on that's and that's very important

0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:24.439
<v Speaker 1>to note too, because if if somebody's politics, what they what,

0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.920
<v Speaker 1>they how they're they're oriented politically, how they vote, the

0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:33.480
<v Speaker 1>ideas political ideas they espouse, if those things are centered

0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:40.160
<v Speaker 1>firmly in the dismantling of your community, your identity as

0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.480
<v Speaker 1>a person, your freedoms, et cetera, then it's okay. I'd

0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.800
<v Speaker 1>imagine to escalate things a bit.

0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.680
<v Speaker 2>But what I found our prior president, Yeah, the only

0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.040
<v Speaker 2>time I ever had a problem with people based on

0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:54.480
<v Speaker 2>how they voted was him.

0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.879
<v Speaker 2>My whole life, I had friends, and my mother more specifically,

0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.879
<v Speaker 2>had friends who voted Republican Conservative, you know, people who

0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:03.639
<v Speaker 2>are very very close to me and my children. I

0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:07.880
<v Speaker 2>always voted Republican and conservatives. So that guy was where

0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:09.800
<v Speaker 2>the line was drawn and where things started to get

0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 2>uncomfortable with people that I know and care about, because

0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.440
<v Speaker 2>disagreeing on that is more than just politics.

0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Sure, sure, so watch this. Once you know that there

0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:29.480
<v Speaker 1>is this former president who is kind of move the line,

0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.920
<v Speaker 1>kind of of decency, kind of definitely one and fifty

0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.600
<v Speaker 1>percent moved the line of what would be considered decent

0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.680
<v Speaker 1>clear in terms of how to regard your countrymen and women,

0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:46.960
<v Speaker 1>your country folk. Once you know that, at least once

0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:53.639
<v Speaker 1>I know that, I start to recognize that people are

0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:58.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of following that lead artificially. A great analogy and

0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.240
<v Speaker 1>this is something that I put on social media before us.

0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Once upon a time, Adolf Hitler won an election in Germany,

0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.800
<v Speaker 1>and the people that voted for him started to believe

0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.160
<v Speaker 1>what he was saying. Now, this is an extreme example,

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:20.160
<v Speaker 1>but this shows how human beings work. Okay, And then

0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:25.920
<v Speaker 1>when Hitler wasn't the whatever over there anymore what's the

0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:31.600
<v Speaker 1>word the fewer anymore? The people still had to be people,

0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:33.880
<v Speaker 1>and they had to come to terms with the fact

0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:39.520
<v Speaker 1>that they were wrong, and they had to seek forgiveness, right,

0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:41.880
<v Speaker 1>but they needed a soft place to land, because there's

0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:47.960
<v Speaker 1>still people and we don't want to be like you, right.

0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:50.120
<v Speaker 1>What was that song Hendry put out?

0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:52.840
<v Speaker 2>They not like us right, right?

0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.480
<v Speaker 1>So we don't want to be the worst version of

0:21:55.520 --> 0:22:02.199
<v Speaker 1>what we've seen. And I think that focusing more of

0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:06.080
<v Speaker 1>the conversation on what we connect over. You know, again,

0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.600
<v Speaker 1>Amy asked me about my sons. He asked me about

0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:13.720
<v Speaker 1>the show, this show that exists in political opposition to

0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.960
<v Speaker 1>one of the programming that he creates. How's the show doing.

0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:20.879
<v Speaker 2>I wish some of our countrymen, like the example that

0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:24.640
<v Speaker 2>you use, had moved on from those from that ideology,

0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.600
<v Speaker 2>and instead of moving on, they seem to have doubled down.

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 2>So it's the hopefulness and the example that you use

0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.000
<v Speaker 2>of returning back to humanity and having a soft place

0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:38.440
<v Speaker 2>to land that has to be desired and sought out,

0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:41.080
<v Speaker 2>and that's not what these people are on.

0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.800
<v Speaker 1>No. No, But this is a long road that we're walking,

0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:48.040
<v Speaker 1>and I think that just you know, before we conclude

0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:49.760
<v Speaker 1>this first half, just kind of having a little bit

0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:52.280
<v Speaker 1>of space in your heart to remember I'm talking to

0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.280
<v Speaker 1>someone who is wrong and doesn't yet know it. That

0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:58.120
<v Speaker 1>goes a long way toward keeping the place a soft

0:22:58.119 --> 0:22:59.919
<v Speaker 1>place for them. Land in terms of forgiveness,