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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast, and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and Republicans have moved on from blaming

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Speaker 1: doors for school shootings to wanting to arm teachers. We

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Speaker 1: have a show that will blow your mind. Former White

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Speaker 1: House Press Secretary Jen Psaki, host of MSNBC's Inside with Jensaki,

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Speaker 1: stops by to talk about her pivot from member of

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Speaker 1: the White House to member of the media. Then the circuses,

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Speaker 1: John Heilman will join us to talk Trump's Waco, Texas

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Speaker 1: rallies symbolism. But first we have the host of the

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Speaker 1: Enemy's List, the one, the Only, the Lincoln Projects, Rick Wilson,

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Speaker 1: Rick Wilson, Molly John Fast. I am here with you. Hey,

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Speaker 1: you're back. I am everywhere I surround the world. You're

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Speaker 1: back from wherever it was he were led undisclosed West

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Speaker 1: Coast locations, various disclosed locations. To talk about the thirty

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Speaker 1: six counts. There's thirty four counts of indictment that he

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Speaker 1: or incitement as Trump likes to call it, all caps

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Speaker 1: that Alvin Bragg has dropped today discuss President Capslock was

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Speaker 1: having a terrible evening. But I must say I think

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Speaker 1: he's probably there's a part of Trump that is absolutely

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Speaker 1: in fucking heaven right now. He knows there will be

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Speaker 1: no other story on cable news for the next several days,

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Speaker 1: possibly including CNN, which may notice somehow that they have

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Speaker 1: to report on this and not cover things like the

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Speaker 1: crisis of Bolivian flute manufacturing. He knows he's going to

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Speaker 1: be in the spotlight. He knows that the charges will

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Speaker 1: never be heard before the election of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: He knows that even if he gets one asshole on

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Speaker 1: the jury, he walks away and you know what, Manhattan

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Speaker 1: maybe eighty five percent Democrat, but he'll find an asshole

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Speaker 1: on that journey. So I have been saying, look, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad it happened. I'm glad that there was a sign

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Speaker 1: that the rule of law in this country, even at

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Speaker 1: the state level, was going to be upheld, and not say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what, Trump gets a pass. You know, look,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think anything we've seen tonight

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Speaker 1: changes the position Trump has in the political culture. He

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Speaker 1: is still the center of every bit of the MAGA universe.

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Speaker 1: You saw every single Republican so far that I've seen,

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Speaker 1: and I don't grant you. I haven't seen anything from

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Speaker 1: Christy or Romney yet tonight, so I'll leave those on

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Speaker 1: the table for now. But every single elected Republican or

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Speaker 1: Republican president will want to be is route there, stumbling

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Speaker 1: over themselves, racing to be the one who says no, no,

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Speaker 1: not only do well, I defend Trump. I'll serve your time,

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Speaker 1: mister President. They're all sucking up at a level you

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Speaker 1: know that is now should now be the expected mode

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Speaker 1: for these people. It's the law, doesn't matter. Trump is

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Speaker 1: innocent no matter what. It's only the deep state. It's

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Speaker 1: just the evil Jewish black conspiracy of Soros and his

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Speaker 1: quote unquote animal day so I was on my way

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Speaker 1: home from a dinner or night, was listening to a

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Speaker 1: Twitter space that like broke in the middle, and in

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Speaker 1: it some one Trumper was explaining to someone else, a

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Speaker 1: non Trumper, how this was all about Soros. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And look, let's not put too fine a point on it.

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Speaker 1: The quiet part is way out loud these days, as

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Speaker 1: we both know, the anti Semitic trope of the Jewish

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Speaker 1: mastermind controlling everything from behind the scenes. It probably sounded

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Speaker 1: better in the original German. But it's here we are now,

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Speaker 1: and they're gonna blame Soros for this. Every single one

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Speaker 1: of these Republicans de Santis and Young Ken and a

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Speaker 1: bunch of others I've seen so far, they always mentioned

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Speaker 1: the Soros controlled prosecutor. He's an animal, yes, calling calling

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Speaker 1: George Sorrows a crafty, devious manipulator behind the scenes, and

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Speaker 1: calling Alvin Bragg a savage animal. Those aren't that that dog?

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Speaker 1: I can barely hear that dog whistle, it's true. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I just don't think that's the most convincing case against Alvin.

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Speaker 1: There's there's a lot of arguments that there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of arguments that this is overcharging and and those are

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Speaker 1: also the tax cases was a better case than And

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Speaker 1: did Syvance fuck this all up by not moving the

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Speaker 1: bigger cases sooner? And is there some sense of like

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Speaker 1: trying to relieve pressure in the system. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: But but look, we've never had an American president, not one,

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Speaker 1: not ever, not even Richard fucking Nixon. Get perp walked

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Speaker 1: into a building, stood in front of a camera, fingerprinted

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Speaker 1: right read in indicted. Maybe he's in handcuffs, Maybe the

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Speaker 1: Secret Service doesn't allow it. Who knows, I don't. I

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Speaker 1: certainly don't. No, but Donald Trump is about to enter

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Speaker 1: a whole new realm of notoriety that he never expected

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Speaker 1: to be in. And that new role of notoriety is

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Speaker 1: going to be the first president with a mug shot.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't think I'm selling the living fuck

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Speaker 1: out of Trump indictment mugs, I mean that ship looking

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Speaker 1: project store. Folks, you get you trust me on this one.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna you're gonna see that. You're gonna see that

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Speaker 1: merch we got. We're gonna have a hardcore merch action.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's funny because today was the day that

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Speaker 1: Gwyneth got off right, thank God. I mean all I

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Speaker 1: could think of today was justice for Gwyneth, Justice for Gwyneth.

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Speaker 1: What's in the box now, asshole? I stole an Andy tweet,

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Speaker 1: but it's a brilliant one, because remember, Gwyneth Paltrow was

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Speaker 1: in seven. But I do want to I just want

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Speaker 1: to roll it back here for a minute to not

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Speaker 1: distract us from Gwyneth Paltrow and just say the few

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Speaker 1: people in the Republican Party who still believed that DeSantis

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Speaker 1: would save them are so pissed tonight. Let me tell

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Speaker 1: you I actually heard from one of his I heard

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Speaker 1: from the donor advisor to one of his gigantic superstar

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Speaker 1: Wall Street Prizes, one of the guys he's been walking

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Speaker 1: around swinging his dick around in politics like I've got exit.

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Speaker 1: I took him from Donald because I'm a Harvard's man.

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Speaker 1: I'm a jail man, right. The donor advisor, this person

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Speaker 1: called me tonight and he's like, I don't think I

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Speaker 1: can change my boss's mind yet. But god damn, that

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Speaker 1: was fucking embarrassing because putting that tweet out basically said

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Speaker 1: that Rhnda Santis is a gigantic and I will use

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Speaker 1: the technical term the alt right is so familiar with Kuck.

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Speaker 1: He basically said, Oh yes, Donald, I'm willing as a

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Speaker 1: governor to say that I will obstruct justice and obstruct

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Speaker 1: the law to protect you politically so that I can

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Speaker 1: then run against you in a Republican primary. It's the

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Speaker 1: most nonsensical, amateur, our, jokey, fucking bullshit I've ever heard

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Speaker 1: in my life. I've always said this, I've said this

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Speaker 1: a year ago, started saying this. Ron De Santis is

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Speaker 1: an overpriced political stock. He is not good with people

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Speaker 1: and folks. I'm making a lot of air quotes right now,

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Speaker 1: Like my hands are going to be sore from all

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Speaker 1: the air quotes I'm making. He's not comfortable, yes, with humans,

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, I am not paying attention to the camera,

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Speaker 1: young lady. He's not comfortable with humans. He doesn't like

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Speaker 1: people contact. There's something off putting about him, as if

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Speaker 1: he's the last thing you see when you're being shoved

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Speaker 1: into a trunk from a car to go to his layer. No. Look,

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Speaker 1: you knew this guy would suck it up eventually, because tonight.

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Speaker 1: So for the last let's say two weeks, there's been

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Speaker 1: this little sprit scene between de Santas and Trump. And

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Speaker 1: DeSantis he tried in the most lame, fucking passive, aggressive,

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Speaker 1: like pussy footing way, I don't know anythink about paying

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Speaker 1: a stare. And so Trump is immediately like, oh, comes

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Speaker 1: out like run to Santa said sex with men and

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Speaker 1: women and he's a groomer. Yeah, guarns he did, because

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Speaker 1: that's how Trump works. Once you hit Trump. First off,

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Speaker 1: you can't like slap fight Trump. You can't like pop

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Speaker 1: him and then run away. You can't do what Marco

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Speaker 1: and Jeb and the rest of the idiots in twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen thought, well, my focus group has come up with

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Speaker 1: a heck of a one liner, and I'm gonna whom

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Speaker 1: it out and get him on the stage and the

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Speaker 1: New York Times will salute my wit. Yeah. No, once

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Speaker 1: you start fighting with Trump, you've got to kick that

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Speaker 1: motherfucker in the balls. You gotta knock him down, you

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Speaker 1: gotta break teeth out. You gotta keep hitting him and

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Speaker 1: hitting him and hitting him. Right. I mean, you fought

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Speaker 1: with Trump for years and years and years, right, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like one of the only people. And I've got

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Speaker 1: a lot of scar tissue, but I'm like one of

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Speaker 1: the only people that no matter what he kept saying

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Speaker 1: about me, I kept getting back in his fucking head

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Speaker 1: and beating him more. Yeah. But for these politicians, they're

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Speaker 1: so afraid of this balancing act. And right now DeSantis

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Speaker 1: has trying to play this very clever it's clever in

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Speaker 1: his head, which they have this very clever construct that

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Speaker 1: he thinks is going to work, which is to go

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Speaker 1: into billionaire donors, you know, like Ken Griffith and Mary

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Speaker 1: Madelson and all those and the people say, I'm a

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Speaker 1: normal person. Now I have to give those rooms a

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Speaker 1: little bit of boom bait. I have to throw them

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Speaker 1: some red meat. But I'll be a regular Republican president.

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Speaker 1: Would you like your tax cut in a large or

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Speaker 1: extra large? And would you like that in a loafer

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Speaker 1: or a pump. But he's been trying to play that game.

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Speaker 1: But the reality of the Republican primarily has always been

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Speaker 1: that why do you want diet Trump? Because as you

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Speaker 1: may have noticed, people at MAGA rallies are not exactly

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Speaker 1: here for the diet version of anything. They're here for

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Speaker 1: the full fat, high salt, high caffeine monster energy drink

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Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. And Trump is um And so this

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Speaker 1: idea of DeSantis plying trying to play up the middle,

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Speaker 1: it was always doomed to fail. And tonight when he

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Speaker 1: puts that tweet out out and basically says, I'll throw

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Speaker 1: my body in front of them. I will not let

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Speaker 1: the law enforcement come to my state to offend, to

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Speaker 1: offend your sacred flesh, Donald, it was pathetic. It was feudal.

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Speaker 1: Because Trump's going to turn himself in because he wants

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Speaker 1: to wants to do the purple Yeah, He's gonna go

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Speaker 1: out there and put the fist in the air, and

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Speaker 1: he's gonna do the whole the whole thing. And the

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Speaker 1: fact the matter is this is a net positive for Trump.

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Speaker 1: None of these other candidates are out there right now saying, see,

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Speaker 1: this is the proof that Donald Trump should never ever,

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Speaker 1: ever be within a billion j jillion miles of any

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Speaker 1: political office ever again. He is a criminal and a scumbag. Instead,

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Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham is on Fox tonight literally weeping like I mean.

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Speaker 1: And Don Junior of course, and as I as I

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Speaker 1: queeted today, Don Junior's comparing Alvin Bragg to Mao and

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Speaker 1: pol Pot And as I said, you know, his his

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Speaker 1: his his his context of history is full of holes.

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Speaker 1: Is his septum. This is a guy. These people are

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Speaker 1: losing their fucking minds over this stuff. And Trump himself, though,

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Speaker 1: is in a more secure position than he has been

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Speaker 1: politically in a very long time. Right now, this was

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Speaker 1: a good Apparently I will also receive the text while

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Speaker 1: we were doing doing this. Apparently Q and On is

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Speaker 1: back tonight saying that this is all part of the plan.

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Speaker 1: Trust l ros is panicking when it is Trump going

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Speaker 1: to go inside prison so he could discover the pedophile rings.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just unbelievable. I mean, yeah, good for him.

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Speaker 1: You don't see that enough, You really don't, really, you

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Speaker 1: really don't. And there's a sense of there's a sense

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Speaker 1: in my mind of of why bother with the Republican

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Speaker 1: primary when all your opponents basically are are asking you, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, can I can I give you another foot massage? Sir? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think ultimately that is what it is, right,

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Speaker 1: the fear of Trump, the fear of the mob, the

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Speaker 1: fear of the base. And look, Fox News for every

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Speaker 1: bit of Rupert's bullshit, I'm gonna brank him. Trump will

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Speaker 1: be a non person when I've done with him, He'll

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Speaker 1: be like a small, desiccated chunk of lizard shit in

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Speaker 1: the a back. Sorry, I'm just doing my worst Australian accent,

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Speaker 1: supposed to my best Australian accent, which is the same one.

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Speaker 1: But look, they're they're back twenty four seven on Trump.

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Speaker 1: Now they found a villain. It's Alvin Bragg. He happens

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Speaker 1: to be a black guy who they're going to say

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Speaker 1: a hundred billion times in the next week or two.

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Speaker 1: The black guy controlled by the Jewish mastermind because their

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Speaker 1: audience is so sophisticated about these things, they need to

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Speaker 1: have it laid out to them in simpler terms. And again,

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Speaker 1: it was always more clear and disturber in the nineteen thirties.

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Speaker 1: But you know, Sean Handy's German is awful. Rick Wilson,

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Speaker 1: We're so punchy and tired, but I came off the

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Speaker 1: Red Eye. I've had about one hour asleep in the

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Speaker 1: last thirty six and damn I'm punching. Jen Saki is

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Speaker 1: the host of MSNBC's Inside with Jensaki on Sundays at

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Speaker 1: twelve pm Eastern, and the former White House Press Secretary

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Speaker 1: for President Joe Biden. Welcome to Fast Politics. Jen, It's

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Speaker 1: great to be here on Fast Politics. Should be Molly,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Delighted to have you. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about what's going on, but I

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Speaker 1: also want to talk to you about how completely in

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Speaker 1: saying everything is. First, well, let's just talk about your show.

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Speaker 1: You have a new show. It is huge, huge success. Yes,

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Speaker 1: thank you. They're going to let us do a third

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Speaker 1: show and a fourth show, I hope. So that's exciting.

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Speaker 1: You're coming from the administration to the media. I mean

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Speaker 1: that's actually a pretty big deal. Yeah, I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: definitely been some adjustments. One I had worked, which is

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Speaker 1: a funny thing to say as this is coming out

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Speaker 1: of my mouth, but I had worked in the White

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Speaker 1: House longer than anywhere else in my life. I knew

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Speaker 1: the security guards, I knew what to order at the

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Speaker 1: lunch counter. I knew where all the secret bathrooms were. Right.

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Speaker 1: So part of my adjustment was coming into a new

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Speaker 1: place and the big company like NBC and MSNBC, which

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Speaker 1: is a huge opportunity because there's so many things going

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Speaker 1: on on any given day. But that was part of

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Speaker 1: my adjustment. Smaller parts of it has been just learning

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Speaker 1: the mechanics of television news. I could probably talk about Russia, Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: democratic politics, the debt limit until somebody stops me from talking.

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Speaker 1: But I'm still learning about things like hues and commercials

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Speaker 1: and timing, and so I've been working with great people

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Speaker 1: who've been doing this a long time to teach me

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Speaker 1: all the ins and outs we're finding ourselves in this

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Speaker 1: weird period of Biden has really overperformed in all of

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Speaker 1: these elections, maybe because he's a genius, maybe because the

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Speaker 1: circumstances have been incredibly good for him in turn ways,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of an unprecedented time and democratic politics. It's

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Speaker 1: an unprecedented time in politics, or I think we can say,

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Speaker 1: and that impacts democratic politics. The thing about President Biden

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Speaker 1: is that he's pretty used to being underestimated. I saw

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Speaker 1: this when I was working for him for a year

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Speaker 1: and a half as the White House Press secretary, but

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Speaker 1: even when he was the Vice president. And sometimes people

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Speaker 1: forget that the guy's been around the political world for

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Speaker 1: fifty plus years and well, he may not always be

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Speaker 1: trending on Twitter in the right way, he has kind

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Speaker 1: of a connection with what people need, what they care about,

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Speaker 1: how to speak to people in their communities who may

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Speaker 1: not be paying attention to every single ebb and flow

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Speaker 1: of whatever debate or craziness Kevin McCarthy's up to, if

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Speaker 1: that makes sense, right people in their communities. But I

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Speaker 1: also think it's a really exciting time in democratic politics

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Speaker 1: because there are so many new and interesting voices out there.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, is one of the things we want

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Speaker 1: to do on the show is I lift some of

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Speaker 1: those people up and introduced them to the country. But

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Speaker 1: as much as it seems pretty clear at this point,

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Speaker 1: it would be more shocking if he didn't run than

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Speaker 1: if he did at this point, Joe Biden, and it

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like at this point that there's a long

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Speaker 1: way to go, of course, that he's going to have

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Speaker 1: a big primary challenge. So as much as that seems

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Speaker 1: to be where the presidential race is headed, there's also

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Speaker 1: all sorts of like interesting, different compelling voices in democratic

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Speaker 1: politics speaking out against everything from Trump's crazy antics to

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Speaker 1: the need for gun reforms to all sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: And that's an exciting time, I think exciting part of

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Speaker 1: what's happening. Right He's definitely going to run again, he

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Speaker 1: hasn't announced yet. There's definitely an anxiety there, you mean

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Speaker 1: among the public. Yeah, yeah, Look, if you're in the

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Speaker 1: White House right now, you are certainly aware of the

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Speaker 1: fact that Joe Biden is eighty years old, right, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, Trump is seventy six. So you know

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Speaker 1: there's that I think that if Trump runs against Biden,

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be an issue. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: no world in which anyone is like that. You know,

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Speaker 1: that is not the issue. The but and I don't

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Speaker 1: think there's a world where you could look at Biden

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Speaker 1: and say he won three elections. He has his story.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this Mittrum was a crazy election, right, they

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Speaker 1: barely lost the House. You can't say to that president,

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Speaker 1: oh no, you don't run again because you're too old.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that would be like political malpractice. But in

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Speaker 1: the same sense you have to have that anxiety. I mean,

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Speaker 1: just actual ely, what is true is that one of

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Speaker 1: the most effective attacks that has come from the right

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Speaker 1: and the barrels of the internets and wherever it comes from,

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Speaker 1: is this notion or question of whether President Biden is

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Speaker 1: up to the job because he is the oldest president

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Speaker 1: in history, right, I mean, as I got to state

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Speaker 1: what it is. Right. At the same time, what's also

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Speaker 1: true is that, you know, during the transition, which I

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Speaker 1: worked on and I didn't work on the campaign, as

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Speaker 1: you know, but I worked on the transition, there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of skepticism from progressives in the party and

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Speaker 1: from others who cared about a range of issues, from

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Speaker 1: addressing the climate crisis to doing more on guns, to

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Speaker 1: whatever the issue may have been, that he would actually

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Speaker 1: push for big change, and he did, right. So what's

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Speaker 1: working I think for him and them is that fact

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Speaker 1: he actually has a record to run on. Now, as

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Speaker 1: you and I both know, the totality of winning a

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Speaker 1: presidential election is not just about your record. Part of

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Speaker 1: it is about that and should be about that. It's

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Speaker 1: about what contrast you are with the other side. And

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Speaker 1: for him, you know, he always uses the saying, which

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Speaker 1: he's not the first to use, don't compare me to

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Speaker 1: the almighty, compare me to the alternative, right, which is

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Speaker 1: basically what a politics is. Right. You know, politics is

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Speaker 1: not about this is the perfect person with the perfect candidacy,

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Speaker 1: who has the perfect resume and perfect background. One, those

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Speaker 1: people are boring and they never make their way through

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Speaker 1: the political world. But two, it's about are you a

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Speaker 1: better alternative? And you know it's interesting because I think

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Speaker 1: back in the fall, if you would have asked me

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Speaker 1: if we're having this conversation then, and we'd have asked me, well,

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Speaker 1: when do you think he would announce? I would have

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Speaker 1: said at the time, like, oh gosh, early in the year, right,

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Speaker 1: But now it seems actually pretty clear if you're sitting

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Speaker 1: in the White House right now, why you haven't yet

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Speaker 1: because the other side is like self combusting against each

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Speaker 1: other right there. You know you have Ron de Santists

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Speaker 1: and Donald Trump, who at this moment are the two

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Speaker 1: leading candidates for the Republican nomination, right, who are throwing

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Speaker 1: so much different spaghetti up against the wall at each

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Speaker 1: other just to try to take the other person out. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's happening. All you really need to do if you're

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden is like be president and be kind of

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Speaker 1: like staying and stable and me with foreign leaders and

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Speaker 1: try to push policy through and be frankly presidential and

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Speaker 1: above politics in some ways. And so that's and also

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Speaker 1: kind of inform the public in different communities about what

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Speaker 1: you've actually done. That's sort of this stage. Obviously, if

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Speaker 1: and when he gets into the race, the gloves come

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Speaker 1: off from his end to I mean, I have this

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Speaker 1: theory that he's actually a better president than he might

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Speaker 1: have been in his younger days, and that part of

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Speaker 1: I mean, again, this is just like a theory, and

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Speaker 1: it's a crazy theory. It's one of these theories that

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Speaker 1: I think about. But you know that he's actually much

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Speaker 1: better than he would have been twenty years ago because

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Speaker 1: he sort of has a kind of humility towards him,

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Speaker 1: and he also tends to be kind of a consensus

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Speaker 1: builder in a way that you might not see a younger.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's sort of like you would be hard

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Speaker 1: pressed to find. And again the Democratic Party, right, it's

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Speaker 1: an organized party. It's a huge group of people. We're

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Speaker 1: not all against democracy or something, but you'd be hard

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Speaker 1: pressed to find a group that's really not Hant. He

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Speaker 1: hasn't sort of done something for that they had, that

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Speaker 1: was sort of on their list that they wanted. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's such an interesting point in Molly that like he's

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Speaker 1: a better president now. I mean part of that is

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Speaker 1: also that it's like what president do you need in

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Speaker 1: the moment? Right? There are other moments where he's run

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Speaker 1: where he would have done a great job but maybe

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Speaker 1: wasn't exactly what the country maybe needed in the moment.

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Speaker 1: And there are aspects of his background. If you look

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Speaker 1: at Ukraine and sort of his background in foreign policy,

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Speaker 1: and it's the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. It's

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Speaker 1: not that every president would have spent hours and hours

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Speaker 1: of time on the phone with European leaders in advance

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Speaker 1: of even an invasion happening, right, But he did that

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Speaker 1: because he'd been working in the foreign policy world for decades.

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Speaker 1: Even things like I remember meeting with him about the

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Speaker 1: Press secretary job. And it's funny because before I met

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Speaker 1: with him, I was thinking, like I needed to just

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Speaker 1: study up and know everything about every issue in the world.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, That's why what I thought as if

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Speaker 1: he was going to like grill me on the South

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Speaker 1: China see in our conversation, I just didn't know. But

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Speaker 1: what we talked about a lot was needing to kind

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Speaker 1: of heal the nerves of the public. Right. And to

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Speaker 1: your point, I mean, part of what his superpower is

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Speaker 1: is that at his core he is a consensus builder

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Speaker 1: and is drawn to that right, he is an empathizer

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Speaker 1: in chief, you know, I mean like when people have loss,

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Speaker 1: when they are when they are hurting, and the country

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Speaker 1: was very much hurting, right, So in that sense he

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Speaker 1: had a lot of the qualities of what people needed

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Speaker 1: in the moment, right. I also think there was a

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Speaker 1: certain sense in which he just was very elexable candidate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you know, sometimes it's like, what does that mean? Right?

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Speaker 1: What means they get elected? Right? Because it can mean

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Speaker 1: all sorts of things. But I think there was probably

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Speaker 1: during the primary process, and I'm guilty of this too.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't working on the campaign, kind of an underestimation

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Speaker 1: of his political power, right, and political effectiveness. It's like,

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Speaker 1: I remember being in Iowa during the primary, and it

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Speaker 1: didn't I mean, he got fourth or fifth or whenever

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Speaker 1: place he got there during the caucus. It didn't really

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Speaker 1: feel like he was barreling toward the nomination to anyone, right,

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Speaker 1: But you know, and then it was like, well, and

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Speaker 1: he also doesn't have a good social media game or

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Speaker 1: whatever the manny ranges of critiques were at the time.

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Speaker 1: But then the reality is that where he won was

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Speaker 1: by winning over what is essentially still the base of

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Speaker 1: the party, which is like African American voters in South

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Speaker 1: Carolina and other part and other I was gonna say

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Speaker 1: March madness. It kind of is March madness, but basketball

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Speaker 1: other primaries in March, right. It's sometimes to me when

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Speaker 1: I look back at that, it's it's like a lesson

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Speaker 1: and a reminder. I mean, I've lived in DC on

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Speaker 1: and off for twenty years, so like, I think DC's

426
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: a great place, but it's easy to get kind of

427
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 1: stuck in this echo chamber fear right, which is not

428
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 1: how people actually talk, think about things, consume information, and

429
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: he has had a connection with the world outside of DC,

430
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: which I think has helped him politically and helped him

431
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 1: kind of overcome people's underestimation of his political capacity. You're

432
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: like such a beloved press secretary, and you know, you

433
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 1: definitely had Fox news man who shall not be named

434
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,719
Speaker 1: like yelling at you, but you really didn't have the

435
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: same kind of I mean, I think that people are

436
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're harder on her exactly, but

437
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: it definitely feels like your predecessor has been really attacked

438
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: in a way. It's a really really hard job, and

439
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: only the people who have stood there and done it

440
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: know it. That's like, and I think it's a small

441
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: collection of people, regardless of your party, maybe with some

442
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: exceptions from the Trump era, who know that. Right. It's

443
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: even harder when you're in a place where there's very

444
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: little you can say that is less to do with

445
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: the person than the moment in times sometimes, you know,

446
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: I mean, and I think the couple of months where

447
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: it was like every day it was about documents and

448
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: what was known or wasn't known. That's hard for anybody

449
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 1: in that job to be doing that and to be

450
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: in a position where there's not a lot you can

451
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: say or add or share. It's also true that being

452
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: the press secretary during a presidential campaign or a potential

453
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: one is also hard because there is something called the

454
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: Hatch Act, of which I violated, and I got a

455
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: sternly written letter. Wait when did you violate the Hatch Act?

456
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: At some point when I was the Press secretary? I

457
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 1: can't even remember what I said. It was something so innocuous.

458
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: It was like about the president supporting someone or campaigning

459
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,719
Speaker 1: for someone. I don't remember what it was. I mean,

460
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: let's remember Trump literally did the convention on the South Lawn,

461
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: So like, right, I was going to say, it's all relative.

462
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: But my point is that there is a limitation to

463
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 1: what you can say and how much you can talk

464
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: about politics, and so that limits even more what information

465
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: you can provide. So I think it's that's really tough.

466
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 1: I worked with Kream closely. She's like a person who

467
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: wants She's like a fantastic human being, and she's a person.

468
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: Yeah she's been on this podcast. She's wonderful. She's wonderful,

469
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: she's a fantastic to human being. She cares deeply, she

470
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: believes in like defending democracy and in public service and

471
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 1: in what the president is trying to do. And I

472
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: was fortunate to work with her for a year and

473
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: a half. So but I would just say that it's hard, Molly,

474
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: because sometimes it doesn't mean you're always deligned in there, right,

475
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: Reporters are doing their job when they're asking for more information,

476
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: even when they get heated about it, and when they're

477
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: asking tough questions about it. When you don't have information

478
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: you can provide for whatever reason, that makes your job

479
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: nearly impossible. And so she knows that. And I think

480
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: she's also like a super tough cookie and people should

481
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: know that about her too. I mean you have to

482
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: be to do that job right, yes, because I mean

483
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: even if they like you, they still don't like you ultimately. Right,

484
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: there's still at tension there, yeah, of course, and there's

485
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: meant to be. I mean, you know, the truth is

486
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: the briefing room as a place where reporters are pushing

487
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: and asking a question ten times and pushing for more

488
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: information and asking for press conferences with the president. That

489
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 1: is what they're supposed to do, right, And when you're

490
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: the press secretary, you're supposed to provide as much information

491
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: as you can humanly provide about whatever the issue is,

492
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: to help shed light on what's happening in the mind

493
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: of the president in the administration and their work on

494
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: behalf of the American public. There's a shared desire I

495
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: think by most reporters and by most press secretaries to

496
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: be a part of what is essential in art and

497
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: a democracy, which is like a fully functioning journalism sector. Right.

498
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that your approaches are always aligned, right,

499
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: Because it's if you're the White House Press secretary and

500
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: you said, every time somebody asked for an interview, yes,

501
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 1: that's like that's a disservice right to the president and

502
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: the government. But every reporter should be asking for that

503
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: every day. So in that sense, even not through mal intent,

504
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: it can be conflicting. Tell us what's happening on the

505
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: show this week. One of the insane reactions from many

506
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: Republicans to the shooting in Nashville was to attack the

507
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: trans community. Trans terrorism was actually trending the other day,

508
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: which is horrible and crazy. And I spent the afternoon

509
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: the other day with dani Ka Rome, who is the

510
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: first transgender person elected in Virginia, and we talked about

511
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: that we talked about her growing up. We also talked about,

512
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, what she wanted to do. She's running for

513
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: state senate. She's a delegate currently, and I think there's

514
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: so many misconceptions about so many people, but certainly people

515
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: in the trans community feel this every day. While she

516
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: is a very vocal advocate for trans rights and equality,

517
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: as she should be, and many people know here because

518
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: of that, she also is somebody who wants to fix

519
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: roads and make sure kids have food in schools and things,

520
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: and I think sometimes people miss that. So I spend

521
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: time with her. We're also going to be talking a

522
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: lot about guns and gun violence and the absurdity of

523
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: that debate. We're working on cooking up a couple of

524
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: interesting guests. So that's where we are noon on Sunday. Fantastic,

525
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you, Molly. Great talking with you.

526
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: John Heileman is the host of Showtimes the Circus. Welcome

527
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, John Heileman, I'm back, I'm back, and

528
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: the politics over here is it used to be fast?

529
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: You should be called faster politics. I think you know

530
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: it keeps getting faster, faster, faster. Well, if only it

531
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: would be faster. We have never been a country where

532
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: I mean Nixon didn't go to jail. Yes, we've never

533
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: been a country where finished the thoughts, where there's been

534
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: a lot of accountability for our electeds. There are many

535
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: people who would say, Molly, that one of the strengths

536
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: of the American system is that we did not historically

537
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: criminalize political stuff. That we kept political accountability in the

538
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: political realm, and we kept legal accountability in the legal realm,

539
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: and we tried not to We hope that rarely the

540
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: twin would meet, right, We didn't want criminal presidents who

541
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: are constantly you didn't want people indicting presidents left right

542
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: in center or trying to jail sitting presidents of the

543
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: United States. That kind of a horrible country, Mike, or

544
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: you are constantly had the opposing party of either side

545
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: constantly trying to throw the president in jail on what

546
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: would almost certainly be in many cases, I'm not talking

547
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: about Trump, but in many games would be spurious reasons.

548
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: So I think it's the fact that the country is

549
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: not historically thrown a lot of presidents in jail or

550
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: ex presidents jail. That's a good thing, Like we should

551
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: be happy about that, right, But but I think it is.

552
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: It does speak to the way our system was design

553
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: was not to rely on the courts to seek accountability

554
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: from presidents and ex presidents. And so now we're in

555
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: a situation that is unprecedented for all the reasons that

556
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: you and I and everybody knows. Donald Trump is not

557
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: like any other president who's ever been president United States,

558
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: even compared to you know, Nixon did a lot of

559
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: bad shit, but ultimately Nixon looked up and said, yeah, Okay,

560
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: they got me. I'm gonna quit now and go hide

561
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: out in San Clementi and write books and try to

562
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: rehabilitate my reputation. Trump is, you know, the absolute opposite

563
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: of that. And it's funny. I found myself arguing somebody

564
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: the other day that Trump is like, in some ways,

565
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: if he could actually read, and I'm not I'm not

566
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: convinced that he is literate, but if he could read,

567
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: and then if he could read at a high level,

568
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: I would say, like, Trump behaves like he's a follower

569
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: of like Fuko. You know, he's like people are like

570
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: well with Norm's standards, shame, and he looks at these

571
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: and goes, you know, those are just words, right, They're

572
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: just words like you all have attached to meaning to

573
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: and their historically contingent. They mean nothing to me. You've

574
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,239
Speaker 1: all decided that these things mean something, but you know

575
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: that intrinsically they mean nothing thing. And if you just

576
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: decide they don't mean anything, you can get away with

577
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: a lot of shit. We've never had a present like

578
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: that before. Yeah, No, fundamentally, I mean that is I

579
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: think the real difference, and I think it's hard for

580
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: people to sort of make peace with the fact that

581
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: he will never say this is too much. The man

582
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: last week engaged in an open, totally racist, totally asemitic

583
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: campaign of intimidation, desabilization against an elected DA here in

584
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: New York, Alvin Bragg, and really against the grand Jury itself.

585
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it's true, it's clear what Trump was doing

586
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: last week. It was like what he's done all all

587
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: throughout his political career, which is lightest stick of dynamite,

588
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: roll it into whatever venue he's going to play, and

589
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: watch the rubble blow up in the air and see

590
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: where it falls, and then kind of be like, I'm

591
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: more comfortable in that environment amid the rubble, and you know,

592
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: the smoldering fires in the burning building than I am

593
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: in the kind of realms that every other politician is

594
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: more comfortable in, which is like not amid blown up

595
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: buildings and and and fires. Right, But it's an amazing thing,

596
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: And on some level you go, well, it's not surprising

597
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: at all. Trump. That's a Trump's done all along racist, sure,

598
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: any Semitic, Sure, no respect for established authority, law, precedent. Sure,

599
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: he's done all those things. But even so, and maybe

600
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: I'm just a baby or whatever, but like I still

601
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: found it shocking, you know, to see you know, Oh,

602
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: sure I'll retweet or read whatever the fucking they called

603
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: those They refused to call them truths. I refused to

604
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: call them truths, whatever that thing on Pruce Socialist. I'll

605
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: retruth some post that has me holding a baseball bat

606
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: at Alden Bragg's head. Sure I'll do that. And then,

607
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: of course, you know, I'll go and do all of it,

608
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: culminating with this fucking crazy rally in Waco, where I went, Oh,

609
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: did you go to Waco? So yes I did, and

610
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: watched him stand there, you know, amid people who are

611
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: like comparing him favorably to David Koresh, as If Koresh

612
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: you know, child rapist and a cult leader and a

613
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: violent criminal who like set fire to a compound where

614
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: he killed all of his followers. That guy's like, yeah,

615
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: dam of course that guy was great. And the government

616
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: was really tear in Waco man jack booted thugs who

617
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: took that guy down, and your Trump's just like that.

618
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: There was a siege at Waco, and there was a

619
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: siege at Marlago, and Trump's just like that. And then

620
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: he walks out on stage and plays the J six choir,

621
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: you know, just calls them to the content choir and

622
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 1: stands there with his hand over his heart and basically

623
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: is now in the process of essentially you're going to

624
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: see that at a lot of Trump rallies in the

625
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 1: Coortless next year. It's like Trump basically saying, not, hey,

626
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: January sixth wasn't as bad as people said. It wasn't

627
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: really an insurrection and it was really this or that.

628
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: He's like not saying it wasn't as bad as you

629
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: as people say. He's saying, it was a great and

630
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: glorious day. And the patriots have been imprisoned. They are

631
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: political prisoners. And that's like now his like out front

632
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: handover his heart, Molly hand over his heart. I mean,

633
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: it's fucking crazy, is it that Trump has not read enough?

634
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: Like did he read the first sentence about David Koresh

635
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: and then not read the rest? I mean do you

636
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: think he was like, yeah, yeah, David Koresh. I mean, like,

637
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: do you think he knows like slept with the underage girls?

638
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: Let A called or now? I had no idea. I

639
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: really can't. I mean I don't. I can't. Again, I'd

640
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 1: not convinced Trump has read anything. There's a few things

641
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: on TV now about Waco, with this being the thirty

642
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: year anniversary, so maybe maybe he's watched I mean, did

643
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: he watch all three hours of the new Netflix dot that?

644
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: You know? There's no there's no topless women in that documentary.

645
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: So I didn't watched that. I don't think so. But

646
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: I mean, look, Roger Stone dedicated to one of his books,

647
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: to the Branch Davidians right. Roger Stone knows, you know,

648
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: as Roger Stone ever talked to Donald Trump about what

649
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: Waco means. Alex Jones was an unknown right wing radio

650
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: host in Austin until Waco, and he used Waco to

651
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: become what we now know. Alex Jones is to stand

652
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: band and know the history of Wacoste band and knows

653
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: the history of Waco, like a lot of people around

654
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: Trump know what the history of this is, and they

655
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: know that it became, you know, after a first Ruby Ridge,

656
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: then Waco and then Oklahoma City. It became kind of

657
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: this potemic, you know, touchstone for the far extreme right,

658
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: the militia movements and all those people. So does Trump

659
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: no know any of that history. I never want to

660
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: impute knowledge to Trump, right, It's like, it's not I

661
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: don't think he knows anything. It seems unfair. Yeah, but

662
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 1: I think he knows that people who love him think

663
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: Waco is is special in some way. And so again

664
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to excuse him. I'm just saying, like

665
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: I would never want to say, oh, Trump, Trump has

666
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: a great command of this history. I don't you know,

667
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: that seems ridiculous, But the people around him do. There

668
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: are a lot of accidents. People make a lot of

669
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: mistakes in politics, but there aren't coincidences. You know, you

670
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: don't hold a rally in the middle of the anniversary

671
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: of Waco in Waco while you're mounting an increasingly avid

672
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: anti campaign of Camp have attacks on the legal system

673
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: in which you are portraying yourself as a martyr. That

674
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: doesn't happen by accident, Right, That's that's the one thing

675
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: I could say. It's like, oh, yeah, hey, we picked

676
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,760
Speaker 1: Waco because it was very central to all the airports

677
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: in Texas. What a fucking what a load up ship

678
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: that was. So that's all that's all I know. Yeah,

679
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it certainly does feel like he's

680
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: priming the pump for anti government. I don't want to

681
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: say violence, because but it certainly feels like that's what

682
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: he's doing. If it weren't for what happened on January sixth,

683
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 1: you would kind of set one to say, well, the

684
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: suggestion that Trump is encouraging a violent protests against the government,

685
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: let's give him the benefit that if Trump wouldn't go

686
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 1: that far, if it work for January sixth, you might

687
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: you might be like, Okay, let's you know, just let's

688
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: force ourselves to not think that he's doing the worst

689
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: possible thing you can imagine. But you know, and the

690
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,959
Speaker 1: context of what he did in the run ups January sixth,

691
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: like it's now you have a reasonable expectation why he

692
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: did it. Once, so why wouldn't you do it again? Yeah,

693
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: I mean I think that's sort of amazing. So I

694
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: want to ask you about this. There's a little bit

695
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: of discourse in the like maybe it won't be De Santists,

696
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 1: maybe it will be Glen Yunkin. I don't know how

697
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: any of these people went against Trump when Trump owns

698
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: the base. I mean, it's it's a formidable challenge to

699
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: be as popular as Trump is with as large chunk.

700
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: And I have to say it over and over again

701
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 1: for people who don't really understand I guess how politics works.

702
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,240
Speaker 1: It's like no one is saying that Donald Trump has

703
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: a coalition that we look at his coalition and say

704
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: that is a formidable general election coalition. Now it's not.

705
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: But in our politics, it's a two part thing. You

706
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: can't run in the general election until you win the nomination.

707
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: So the first thing that every politician, not just Trump

708
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: but everybody, the first thing you're focused on is how

709
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: do I get the nomination? Then you look and focus

710
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: on what you know what you're going to do in

711
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: the general election. Now, Trump has a lot of problems

712
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: in a general election, but he also has a lot

713
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: of strengths in the nomination process, and frankly, if you're

714
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: worried about I mean a you know everybody who We've

715
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: seen Trump's weaknesses not just played out. We saw him

716
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen to some extent though he won. We

717
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: saw them in twenty eighteen, twenty twenty two. We know

718
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: what he can't, what he doesn't have the capacity to do.

719
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: But we also know that we have this weird system

720
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: that's based on the electoral college and not based on

721
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 1: the popular vote. We know that, you know, crazy shit

722
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: happens all the time in America now, and we know that,

723
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: like even if you said Trump isn't even a fifty

724
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: fifty chants in a general election, he's going to get

725
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: forty six, forty seven percent of the vote. Naturally, he's

726
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: gonna win a every red state that we know that's

727
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: a hardcore red state. And so like, the guy stands

728
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 1: up what you want to call it, a forty percent

729
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: chance of being president, that's a pretty that's like more

730
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: than I'm comfortable with, Like, yeah, it's you four and

731
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: ten times yeah. And so it doesn't give me comfort

732
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: to say, you know, Trump is going to be a

733
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: sper He is obviously the candidate that Biden would like

734
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: to run against, not just because of some personal thing,

735
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: but because you know of the weaknesses that have been

736
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: on display electorally, but in the nomination fight, the thing

737
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: that gets him into the position where he has somewhere

738
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: between a forty and forty eight percent chance of being president.

739
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: He's very strong, and you look at you know there

740
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: is that The appeal of De Santis is a head appeal.

741
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: It's like it's these people at the Club for Growth

742
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: and the Carl Row people who are sitting around going

743
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: they understand it's the elite, and it's people who would

744
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: like the Republican Party. Two, they understand the Trump's a

745
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,479
Speaker 1: loser and he's an optrosse and he hurts the party

746
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: down ballot, and they look at they say, how do

747
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: we get out of this. We're not gonna get out

748
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: of this with Chris Christie. We're not going to get

749
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: out of this with Governor Hogan from Maryland. We need

750
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: someone who is like Mitt Romney, but who has just

751
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: enough MAGA credentials. And here's a guy who's fought these

752
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: culture wars in Florida based loves these culture wars. They

753
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 1: love to watch people punching trans kids in the face.

754
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: And so they look at De Santis and he's like

755
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: the Frankenstein. He's like, you know, he's a lab created thing.

756
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: It's like a mend it's a project. It's like, here's

757
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: the guy who basically we like in his establishment Republican

758
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: except he's he's done these things that have worked for

759
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: him in Florida manifestly, I mean, very impressive reelection there.

760
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: And they say, Okay, that's the guy who might be

761
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: able to, you know, one on one against Trump, who

762
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: might be able to take him down. And then you

763
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: just look at like what it would actually look like.

764
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: And you know, I said this this morning on Morning Joe.

765
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: It's like, has anybody seen the Rond de Santas debate

766
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: against Charlie Christ, Yeah, he's terrible. Has anybody seen the

767
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 1: Rond de Santas debate against against meth Head Andrew Gillham?

768
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 1: Like he got taken apart by two. I mean Andrew

769
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: Gilham was at at times a pretty talented performer, right

770
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: Troley Chris has never been a talented performer. And and

771
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: and in both of them, though Decans looked like a

772
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: deer in the headlights, and both of those of these

773
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: major debates he's had to do. They shield him from

774
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: the press on the ground in Florida because they know

775
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: that he's brittle, yea, and they think that he could

776
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: go off the rails if he was ever had to

777
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: take a lot of tough questions from reporters. They're worried

778
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: about these debates and Trump is going to you know,

779
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: he's a human, he's a human threshing machine. He's you know,

780
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: I look at that and go, man, if I'm sure,

781
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: if I'm if, I'm to sans a people. I think,

782
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: as a practical matter, how's this actually going to work?

783
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: Like in practice? All of Trump's support with the base

784
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: And again, whatever you think about Trump, he has a

785
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: very very well demonstrated history of ripping other Republicans into

786
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: tiny little pieces into like confetti and blowing them and

787
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: shooting them out of his confetti gun like a a

788
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 1: halftime of an NBA game. Like, I don't I don't

789
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 1: see like how that's gonna work. I think Trump will

790
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: call him tiny d and tower over him and that

791
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: will be the end of it. Yes, I just think

792
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: that I think that that, you know, it's an interesting

793
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: thing in the Republican base right now, because you do

794
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: here even you know, down in Florida, we were down

795
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: there for the circus and we went down there and

796
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 1: talk to you have rounded a lot of people in Florida.

797
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: Republicans in Florida who say, we love run to Santas,

798
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: but we really would like him to stay here for

799
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 1: another four years and let Donald Trump be reelected president

800
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: because he had that taken away from him and he

801
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 1: needs to finish the job. And so does round to Santas.

802
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: He needs to stay here and finish the job. Santis

803
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: in twenty eight sounds great to us. And that's another

804
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: problem to Santas has even like there are a lot

805
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: of people who are like, they don't want to see

806
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: to Santas and Trump fighting. They like, actually kind of

807
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: they want they don't like it when Trump attacks to

808
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: Santas and they don't like it went to Santas attacks Trump.

809
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: They're kind of like they're, you know, the Republican bases

810
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: like can we all please just I mean a funny

811
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: way on on our team. They would rather see the

812
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: two of them like working together, like let's just have

813
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 1: this be orderly, you know, let's let's Trump, let's have

814
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 1: Trump for run in twenty twenty four. He'll win. This

815
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: is their view right there, and then let's then let's

816
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: have me give me to Santas pick up the baton

817
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: after he's fixed Florida. I put quotes around air quotes

818
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: after he's finished fixing Florida. And apparently, you know, shipping

819
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: off all the truth. Anybody who's who's uh, who's any

820
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,439
Speaker 1: trans kid, anybody who you know an anybody who stands

821
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: doesn't like, you know, exiled them. But but then that's

822
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: what they're looking forward to. And then they say, you know, uh,

823
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: then just Santas can pr nomine in twenty twenty eight.

824
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: We'll get behind him. I've seen in the course of

825
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: my time covering politics a lot of heralded candidates who

826
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: were like Pete Wilson people forget back in nineteen eighty six.

827
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: It was like people say, Governor California had like the

828
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: sharp end of the spear on any immigration policies in

829
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 1: America back then, Pete Wilson Governor California or a publican

830
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: governor California, tough on immigrants, tough un weelfare, He's going

831
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: to be formidable. The guy was like an awful presidential terrible,

832
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, and you've seen this a million times. These

833
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: people who are big state governors, Rick Perry, big state

834
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: governors who are like on paper, you're like Scott Walker,

835
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: Scott Walker. And then they got act there in the

836
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: arena on the national stage, which is just different even

837
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: when Trump wasn't around, and they just were terrible. Um

838
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: so we'll see. I mean, but I'm not I'm not

839
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: in the camp yet of like, Wow, Randos understand as

840
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: as a juggernaut and he could really take down Trump.

841
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not where I'd be betting my mortgage

842
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 1: money if I had to bet. Thank you, John so great.

843
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you. Molly, You're just the best. Molly

844
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: drunk fast Jesse Cannon. Now, when you're a pregnant woman,

845
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: you can be a criminal if you cross state lines

846
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: in Idaho. Yes, Idaho went from states rights to no

847
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: rights pretty fucking fast. Idaho doesn't want you going to

848
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: get abortion pills. They don't want you going out of

849
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: state to get an abortion. I love that they're also

850
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: apparently basing some of these laws off of slave laws

851
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: about crossing up to the north. That's really nice. Fugitive

852
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 1: slave laws is what we should be modeling our modern

853
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: legislation off of it. It's just disgusting and I'm disappointed

854
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: but not surprised. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.

855
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: June in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to your the

856
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos.

857
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to

858
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks

859
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: for listening.