1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:00,720 Speaker 1: Don't know. 2 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 2: Every day a waygo click up the Breakfast Club. 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Finish, y'all done? 4 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 2: Morning. 5 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 3: Everybody is DJ Envy Jess Hilarious, Chelamage the guy. We 6 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 3: are to breakfast Club, law l the Roses here as well, 7 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 3: and we got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed, 8 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 3: he has a new book, Retribution from Donald Trump and 9 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 3: the Campaign that changed America. 10 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: John Call, Ladies and gentlemen. 11 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for having me. 12 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 2: How would you fail? 13 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 4: How are you? 14 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: I'm doing it all right, I'm doing it right, crazy times. 15 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 4: This is your fourth book on Trump? 16 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you like jobbing yourself crazy? 17 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 4: Huh? 18 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: Oh my god. I I wrote one almost six years ago, 19 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: and I thought that would be the only one. But 20 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: this is fifteen hundred pages on this stuff. But you know, 21 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: I mean I felt like I was watching history unfold 22 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: and I saw people trying to rewrite the history as 23 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: it was happening. And that's why I've you know, I've 24 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: poured my heart and soul into these books. 25 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 5: Well feels different about this, this this face, this era 26 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 5: of Trump. 27 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: If anything, if it does feel different, I mean it does. 28 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I think what's what we're seeing now is 29 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: as suggested by the subtitle of this book, It's changing 30 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: in America. His first term was chaotic. I mean, the 31 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: attention of the world was on the White House. There 32 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: was all this controversy swirling. But you know, he left 33 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: and it was done. I mean there was nothing, no 34 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: real lasting impact. I mean, now look what he's doing. 35 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: And symbolically you could look at like tearing down the 36 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: East Wing, you know, changing paving over the Rose Garden. 37 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: He's changing the physical layout of the White House. But 38 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: what our country is changing, I mean the use of 39 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: executive power. You have a president that's shown you can 40 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: just basically ignore Congress, get into the precipice of ignoring 41 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: the courts. We're in a totally different phase, I think. 42 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 3: I think the first term was more of to see 43 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 3: how far or what he could get away with. 44 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: And then when he came back, he just started. 45 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 3: I mean he started at first day desk signing all 46 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 3: types of part is, signing things into play immediately. 47 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: So I think the first time was let me see 48 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: what I can get away with. 49 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, he he had all these people 50 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: around him in the in the first firm, who had credentials. 51 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: You know, he felt like he almost like trophies on 52 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: a wall his cabinet. You had the four star marine generals, 53 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: you had the CEO of Excellent Mobile, you had the 54 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: retired judge and senator he put in charge of the 55 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: of the Justice Department, and every one of those people. 56 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: You know, you could say, well, you know, Trump has 57 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: no experience in the government, but they do. And he 58 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: felt betrayed by all of them. They all tried to 59 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: keep him, to a degree in line. And now that 60 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: they're all gone, they're all gone. 61 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 5: You know, you begin the book with an admission, you 62 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 5: say you believe that Donald trump come back was highly unlikely. 63 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 5: Like what was the moment or series of moments in 64 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 5: your reporting when you're when you're thinking shifted. 65 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: You know, the It wasn't really until pretty close to 66 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: the election, when I saw how the Kamala Harris campaign 67 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 1: was approaching it, and I saw their almost desperation to 68 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: have another debate with Donald Trump. I saw her go 69 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: on Fox News after resisting all kinds of interviews, something 70 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,559 Speaker 1: you had said she should have done a long time ago. 71 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: And I report in the book how she actually her 72 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: campaign actually approached Fox and asked them if they would 73 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: host a debate. This is in the end, you know, 74 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: in October and Trump and Fox said sure, but Trump 75 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: had no interest in doing it again. And that's where 76 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: I saw. She wouldn't have been doing that if they 77 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: didn't see that she was likely to lose. 78 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 5: When you realized that not only was the comeback possible, 79 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 5: but that the campaign was built around this idea of 80 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 5: retrobution in a structural way, when did you realize that? 81 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: Really early on? I mean I I was there in 82 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: mar A Lago when he announced his campaign shortly after 83 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: the midterms in twenty twenty two. It puttered along, It 84 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: was nothing. It was you know, Ron DeSantis was leading 85 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: in the polls, if you remember, double digits by the 86 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: end of twenty twenty two. And then he gave this 87 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: speech at Sea Pack where he used that line. You know, 88 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: he said, I told you I am your voice in 89 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Now I tell you I am your retribution. 90 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: And that gave his his campaign this energy. And then 91 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: you had the the the indictments coming in. You had 92 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: he started his campaign. The first rally of his campaign 93 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: was it Waco, Texas. I mean, I wrote a book 94 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,679 Speaker 1: like thirty years ago this December, I wrote a book 95 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: called The Right to bear arms, the rise of America's 96 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: new militias, about the right wing militia groups, Timothy McVeigh 97 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: and all of that, and you know, the Waco, Texas 98 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: was the rallying cry for those people. It was as 99 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: the symbol of like the government out of control and 100 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: coming after you. And now Trump is going to Waco. 101 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: So I saw and then sitting through that trial in 102 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: New York, the hush money trial, and I could just 103 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: see the seething resentment that he had that he had 104 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: to go to that court room every day, four days 105 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: a week. You've been down, there's one hundred centers. He 106 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: is a dingy dark you know, dirty. I mean I 107 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: described when I because I went down and sat through 108 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: several days down there, and you go through the front 109 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: door of the courthouse. The first thing I notice is 110 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: this big rat traps inside, you know, I mean, And 111 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: and he's got to be there, and he can't leave 112 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: even like during the lunch breaks. He's got to be 113 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: there in some dark, cold room. And he just you 114 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: could see he was plotting, I am going to get 115 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: even with all of these people if I get back 116 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: into power. 117 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 6: Do you feel like there will ever actually be like 118 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 6: retribution that he thinks because there's always something new that 119 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 6: he feels like he has to like get back. I mean, 120 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 6: he's getting people back, but like, is there a place 121 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 6: where it stops, Like where he gets to the point 122 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 6: where he's like, yo, I didn't got yaut and did enough? 123 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: No? No, no, I mean you think, first of all, 124 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: you would think that the guy he got back to 125 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: the White House and he won, you would think that 126 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: maybe at that point you'd be like, Okay, you know, 127 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: I've proved everybody wrong. I'm here, I'm in power again. No, 128 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: he's going to keep going. And here's the thing. It's 129 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: not just political opponents. It's not just the Democrats, it's 130 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: not just the prosecutors. It's not just the people that 131 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: literally went after him. I think that the thing that 132 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: motivates him the most is getting back at Republicans who 133 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: he believes didn't sufficiently support him. Really yeah, I mean yeah. 134 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: The other day Steve Bannon said something. Steve Bannon said 135 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: that that Bill Barr belongs in prison. Bill Barr. I mean, 136 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: this is like, you know, and his bars sin was 137 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 1: that he didn't back Trump on the efforts to overthrow 138 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election. And you know, I mean, so 139 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: his first motivation, that the beginning of the retribution campaign 140 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,559 Speaker 1: actually begins in the days after he leaves the White House, 141 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: he goes to mar A Lago. He's really seen as 142 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: a pria even by most of the Republican leadership. He's 143 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: banned on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and all of that. 144 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: Corporations are saying they're not going to give money to 145 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: Republicans that backed him in overturning the election. And he's 146 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: in a very dark place. I mean, I described this, 147 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: you know, pretty graphically in my previous book about his 148 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: exile down there. But what is the first project he has? 149 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: His polster gives him a membo that shows him that 150 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: Liz Cheney can be beat in Wyoming, Liz Cheney who 151 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: voted to impeach him, and that is the beginning. He 152 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: is now focused on, first time, going to go after 153 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: those damn those ten Republicans that voted to impeach me 154 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,239 Speaker 1: in the House. They're gone, and he defeats Liz Cheney. 155 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: So he you know, I mean, he expects Democrats to 156 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: be his opponents. He knows prosecutors do what prosecutors do. 157 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: It's those Republicans So. 158 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 5: Is that to put fear in the team that's around 159 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 5: him now, to let y'all know, y'all better always go 160 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 5: along with me, because if y'all get out of line, 161 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 5: then it'll be retribution against y'all too. 162 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: That's a huge factor, and it's pretty damn effective. I mean, 163 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: this is the other thing to talk about. What's different 164 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: from the first time. The first time you had Paul 165 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: Ryan and Mitch McConnell as the leaders in the Congress, 166 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: neither one of them had any loyalty whatsoever personal loyalty 167 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: to Trump, and in fact had opposed him strongly in 168 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: the case actually in both cases in twenty sixteen in 169 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: the Republican primary. And now you have I mean, Fune 170 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: has a degree of independence. But like I mean, like Johnson, 171 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: the Speaker of the House, he's almost behaves like he's 172 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: a member of the of the Trump's staff. I mean 173 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: that the House is there to do the will of 174 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: the White House. 175 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 3: I mean, you didn't have that before when you were 176 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 3: writing this book and you spoke to a lot of people. 177 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 3: Would do in this book was did anybody not want 178 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 3: to do it or was scared to talk with you? 179 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 4: Speak with you? 180 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 2: Because they said he might come back for me. 181 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: You definitely, It's always always and yet you know, and 182 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: what I really tried to do with this book was 183 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: to get people who would talk to me on the record. 184 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: And I succeeded in some of the big you know, 185 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: some of the key players I mentioned Steve Bannon, I 186 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: mean hours of conversations with this guy. Bobby Kennedy was 187 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,599 Speaker 1: somebody I was talking to throughout the campaign. On the 188 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: other side, Hunter Biden like really opened up to me. 189 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: And what I did with with with some of these 190 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: people is I said, Okay, talk to me, tell me 191 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: the story. I am not this is for a book. 192 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: It's not going to affect anything. Just talk to me, 193 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: and it's for history. And that kind of draws them out. 194 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: But there are and then there were some people that 195 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: just didn't want to don't want to be seen with 196 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: me or with a reporter because then they might be like, aha, 197 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: he saw this. Like you know, there was a Todd 198 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: blanche you know now obviously at the Justice Department, but 199 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: was the lead on his defense cases during the transition. 200 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: Somebody took a picture of him meeting with a CNN 201 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: reporter and like put it all out of one of 202 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: the is if this was like proof he's not sufficiently 203 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: on the team. 204 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 6: I saw Hunter Biden told you that he was really 205 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 6: upset when Obama led Biden off the state in that 206 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 6: viral video. So when you are talking to people about 207 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 6: these moments, that will bring these moments back up again, 208 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 6: Like he's upset it when viral in the first place, 209 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 6: He's upset Obama did it. But then he sits down 210 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 6: and talks to you, which brings it back. 211 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: Up again, right, exactly what is. 212 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 6: The conversation I guess after the book comes out and 213 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 6: people pick that up because that was the main folks 214 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 6: of the news conversation. 215 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: Now you're seeing it again exactly. 216 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 6: So does Hunter Biden then call you back and be 217 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 6: like we need to do another interview where like how 218 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 6: do you handle the not the backlash, but the conversation 219 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 6: that comes back up because of your book from these 220 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 6: people that you sit down with. 221 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: By the way, that was such an interesting conversation with 222 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden. So I talked to him over the phone 223 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: a lot during the course of the campaign, including when 224 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: you know there was that big effort to get his 225 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: father to drop out, and he was like one of 226 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: the few people actually talking to President Biden every day. 227 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: I mean even like his top aides were, you know, 228 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: many of them were isolated. I mean the chief of staff, 229 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: Jeff Science. When Biden had the final meeting where he 230 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: decides he's not going on again, the chief of Staff's 231 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: not even there. He's not even part of the meeting. 232 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: He gets called later, by the way, I decided I'm 233 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: not going to run. But Hunter was so passionate in 234 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: his anger towards Obama. He said he was there at 235 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: that fundraiser, went for that viral moment, and he wanted 236 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: to jump up on the stage and say, you don't 237 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: touch the President of the United States. And then he 238 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: also is angry about the George Clooney op ed, which 239 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: he blames Obama for. He's also saying, I guess we 240 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: just have it. We Biden's have a different idea of 241 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: what it means to be a friend. 242 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 5: So you're mad at George Clooney for telling the truth, 243 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 5: shouldn't you be kind of mad at your father for 244 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 5: running again for a second term. He probably wasn't gonna 245 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 5: be in the best condition to. 246 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 6: And then throws Obama in the mix. 247 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 2: Obama's not Obama. 248 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Obama, who's not didn't write the thing. 249 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 4: So Obamas, you just got him wandering around the stage. 250 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean it is first of all, a 251 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: few of those people really close and tight around Obama 252 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: are I mean Biden are still absolutely convinced that he 253 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: could have won and that this was a tragedy that 254 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: the Democrats forced him out. 255 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 5: I mean, we should never talk through those people that 256 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 5: I'm not even joking. We should leave those people in 257 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 5: the past like they should be out the pastors. 258 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: Just like, here's the thing, I this sometimes the biggest 259 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: news and is what didn't happen. The most consequential decision 260 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: of Joe Biden's life professional life was the decision to 261 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: run again. I mean it the race is virtually everything 262 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: that he did as president. And they never had a 263 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: meeting on it. They never sat down and said, what 264 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: are the pros and cons running again? Not running again? 265 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: What does it look like? I mean, Hunter himself said, 266 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: the machinery just went. We never really discussed should we 267 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: And then that's that is the biggest decision. 268 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 5: That's one of the biggest you know, that's one of 269 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 5: the most glaring things from the Vice President's BOK one 270 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 5: hundred and seven days that. 271 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 4: I feel like people didn't discuss enough. 272 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 5: When she said that the Bidy shouldn't have been able 273 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 5: to make that decision alone. 274 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 4: I think I'm para for them a little bit. 275 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 5: It was reckless for him to make that decision on 276 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 5: his own, And I'm like, why would that ever be 277 00:12:59,520 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 5: a decision? 278 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 4: Let him make one? 279 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and all the you know, it's not just the 280 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: it's not just the party. It's not just the White 281 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: House leadership, the vice president. It's the whole democratic apparatus. 282 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: I mean, nobody going in and saying, wait a minute, 283 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: let's think about this. 284 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I you know, that's to me, that's a 285 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 5: whole other book. But at some point somebody's gonna have 286 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 5: to sit down and talk about how that decision and 287 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 5: the decision to hire Merrit Garland is why we ended 288 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 5: up where we currently. 289 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 4: Are right now. 290 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. 291 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 5: And in the book, you describe how a new team 292 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 5: was formed around Trump with the goal of a of 293 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 5: a new world order. 294 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 4: Can you walk us. 295 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 5: Through like one or two behind the scenes organizational, our 296 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 5: strategic decisions that reveal how his team, how this team 297 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 5: operated differently than previous politically. 298 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: Well, I spent a great deal of time describing what 299 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: was actually happening at mar A Lago. And if you remember, 300 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: there was some political commentary at the time saying, man, Trump, 301 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: this time arounds got it more together. There's less drama 302 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: surrounding the transition. They're putting out their nominees and a 303 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: quicker pace. It I mean no, uh, it was. It 304 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: was total chaos. Yes, you had, you had you, I 305 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: mean you had. The campaign transition office was actually a 306 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: couple miles away in West Palm Beach where the campaign 307 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: it was the old campaign office became the transition office. 308 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: Mar A Lague was actually a pretty small place. There's 309 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: only one office, which is Trump's office. And but so 310 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: you had you had all these transition people working two 311 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: miles away, but none of it mattered. They were preparing 312 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: lists and interviewing potential candidates and and doing their vetting. 313 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: And then it was like Trump deciding on his own 314 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: and surprising the people that were running his transition. So 315 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, Pete Hegseth I described the mar A Laga. 316 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: There's a place called the living room. It's really the lobby, 317 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: and people would go and wait for their their meetings, 318 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: either with Lutnik and the transition team or upstairs to 319 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: go and have their big meeting with Trump. And there's 320 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: a scene where there's a candidate for attorney general sitting 321 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: on the couch next to a candidate for for Energy secretary. 322 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: You know, Matt Gates is running around. He's not even 323 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: considered an attorney general candidate. He's just considered, you know, 324 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: a guy that's helping out. And Pete Hegseth shows up 325 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: and they all think he's there to interview Trump because 326 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: he's the Fox weekend guy. And so Trump didn't even 327 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: like talk to his like people about this. It was like, 328 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: Pete's the man, We'll just do him. So, you know, 329 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: it's it's really the way it was all centered around 330 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: Trump and and and and his whim and what he wanted. 331 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: It was, you know, you didn't have anybody and actually, 332 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: let me let me back up a second. The one 333 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: thing that is very different is that, first of all, 334 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: he knew his way around, so he didn't think he 335 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: needed to rely on anybody for advice. But you also 336 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: had some of the people that had been with him 337 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: all along had been preparing for what they would do 338 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: if he got back into office. Stephen Miller started a 339 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: group called America First Legal, and they'd worked for three 340 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: plus years thinking about executive orders that they would do 341 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: if Trump got back in preparing drafts. 342 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 4: One of these things. 343 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: This even this predates Project twenty twenty five, but yeah, 344 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: absolutely project twenty twenty five. So they were ready with 345 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: an agenda, and it's ultimately Trump's agenda, but they were 346 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: ready with here's the roadmap. Here is how you're really 347 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: going to do it. 348 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 5: What surprises you most about how I guess American presidential 349 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 5: campaigns and governance, Yeah, are changing. 350 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: It's the absolute power that we're seeing vested in the executive. 351 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: I mean, we have a system of checks and balances 352 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: in this country. You know, it's I mean, that's the idea. 353 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a great question. Do we still have that? 354 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: It is very much putter. I mean, the House of 355 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: Representatives has just been out of session for fifty four 356 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: days and did it matter? 357 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 4: Nope? 358 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: I mean, was there anything different? To quote Bannon again, 359 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: he called and I don't know if he was being 360 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: complimentary or not, he called the Congress the equivalent of 361 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: the Russian Duma, which is just like, I mean, not 362 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 1: even a rubber stamp. You don't even need to be stamped. 363 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: So Trump this flurry of executive orders tariffs, I mean, 364 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court case will be the most interesting thing 365 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: to watch in this term of the Supreme Court. I 366 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: mean the fact that the idea that a president can 367 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: come out and impose tariffs on virtually every country in 368 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: the world. The Constitution makes it clear that Congress controls 369 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,719 Speaker 1: the power to tax and imposed duties. And I mean, 370 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: I think about my life covering politics. The debates over 371 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: trade are big debates. You know, NAFTA, the US Mexico 372 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: Free Trade Agreement TPP, all these things that are negotiated 373 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: and then Congress needs to ratify them and if they don't, 374 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: they don't go into effect. And Trump just holds a 375 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: press conference in the Rose Garden and suddenly you have 376 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: these mass tariffs. So we'll see if that gets knocked down. 377 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: I mean, the Supreme Court seemed pretty damn skeptical of it, 378 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: but you know, he has I mean pushed. It's not 379 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: enough to say push the bounds of the power of 380 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: the executive, but beyond anything we've ever seen, why do. 381 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 5: We even still believe in the Supreme Court, Like the 382 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 5: Supreme Court had not been a legitimate institution for a 383 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 5: long time. 384 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: Well let's see what they do on this. 385 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 5: We say that about every single time, but they have 386 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 5: proven where their loyalty lies. 387 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean there's no question 388 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: that that conservative majority has served Trump very well, especially 389 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: in terms of knocking down or freezing the rulings of 390 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: all those low courts. 391 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 5: And I think it's ridiculous when people say things about 392 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 5: Trump and they'd be like, you know, he's committing crimes. 393 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 5: Actually he's not because of the Supreme Court presidential immunity. 394 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: I mean, this was the amazing thing about this election 395 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: is that for Trump himself, he faced like two possible outcomes. 396 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: He loses and he might go to prison. I mean, 397 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: there's a really decent chance he's gonna go to prison, 398 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: or he's gonna spend the rest of his life fighting 399 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: to stay out of prison. Or he wins. He doesn't 400 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: just become president again, he becomes the most powerful president 401 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: of our time because the Supreme Court says, basically, you 402 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: can do anything you want as long as it's tied 403 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: in some way to your job. You have immunity. So 404 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: the one place that the Supreme Court did defy him, 405 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: and there have been a couple of instances, but one 406 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: big one in recent years was he really thought the 407 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: Supreme Court was going to ride to the rescue and 408 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: nullify the election in twenty twenty, and they refused. So 409 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: we'll see. I think the tariffs thing will be a 410 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: big test because you know, you talk to conservatives, judicial conservatives. 411 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way that a president has the 412 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: power to unilaterally impose tax you know, tariff's taxes on 413 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 1: the rest of the world. So what do they do 414 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: on this? And Trump is trying to pressure on them, 415 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 1: me saying if we don't, you know, if they rule 416 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: the wrong way, we want to have a country anymore, 417 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. But let's see. I actually think 418 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: that they're going to slap them down on this. 419 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 5: But we'll say, what legacy do you think this will 420 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 5: have on like future campaigns, future governance, because I feel 421 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 5: like this this only. 422 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 4: Works for Trump. 423 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean there's no Republican that I can 424 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,919 Speaker 1: see that would just suddenly inherit the movement and everybody 425 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: would do what they've done for him, which is total 426 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: loyalty even when they disagree with him. Well, we don't 427 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: disagree with him anymore. I mean J. D. Vance doesn't 428 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: command that kind of power. Marco Rubio doesn't command that 429 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: kind of power. But I do think that the rules 430 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: of the game have changed, and I think the next 431 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: Democrat president. I mean, you see what Gavin Newsom did 432 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,239 Speaker 1: on the on the redistricting, and he's quite clear about it. 433 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: It's like we can sit here and talk about our 434 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: good government stuff that we but no, they've they've fought 435 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: dirty and basically saying we have to fight dirty back. 436 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: So this, this governing by executive order, you know, is 437 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: something and we'll see how much of it gets knocked down. 438 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: But I mean, I think this is part of the 439 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: part of what's going to happen now. So you don't 440 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: see a third term. You don't see him trying for what. 441 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 5: I don't even like that conversation. Yeah, like we shouldn't 442 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 5: even be having that conversation. 443 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: Twenty second Amendment says it is. It just can't happen. 444 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many things that they said that can't 445 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 3: happen that he does that happens. 446 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: You know. I had a conversation with John Kelly shortly 447 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: after he left the White House as chief of Staff. 448 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: So Trump was still in power, and I was having 449 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: its kind of it's amazing to think back at it, 450 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: but I was. I was just wondering. I was beginning 451 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: to write my very first book on all of this, 452 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: and I was just what happens if Trump doesn't leave office? 453 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: This is first term, you know, way before January sixth 454 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: and all that, and I was just like, what what happens? 455 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: So I asked Kelly this again, retired four star marine general, 456 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: you know, a guy who's seen a lot. And he said, 457 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: oh no, no, he's gonna leave. Trust me, he's going 458 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: to leave. And and and then he paused and he said, 459 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: and you know, and if he doesn't want to, he 460 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: could chain himself to the resolute desk and there will 461 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: be people will quietly go into the Oval office and 462 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: cut the chains and take him out. So, you know, 463 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's you know, I thought there 464 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: was just such a vivid image that we do have 465 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: a system. But you know, he has he has installed 466 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: loyalists everywhere, and I think it's going to be very 467 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: hard for him to leave office. But he can't run again. 468 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: According unless you make our constitution doesn't mean anything. 469 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, they kind of treating like I 470 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 4: don't mean anything. 471 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: Now. 472 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 5: I want to ask you, did you talk to any 473 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 5: of those generals and admirals who went to that meeting 474 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 5: a couple months ago where they basically was trying to 475 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,360 Speaker 5: get them the pledge allegiance to them. 476 00:22:58,440 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 4: That's what it felt like to me. 477 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 5: It felt like they were trying to get th old 478 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 5: general and the pledget leaders to them and not the Constitutes. 479 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 4: Did you talk to anybody? 480 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've I've I've kept in touch with a number 481 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: of our senior military leaders who will privately say that 482 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: they were horrified by what happened and horrified what happened 483 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: earlier in the year at Fort Bragg. Do you remember 484 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: this one when Trump went to give a speech at 485 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: Fort Bragg and they actually somebody brought in onto the base, Uh, 486 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: these these tents to sell merchandise, Trump campaign merchandise. The 487 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: troops cheered him on as he gave a very political speech, 488 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: attacking Gavin Newsom, attacking the mayor of Los Angeles, attacking 489 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,719 Speaker 1: the Democrats in the Senate, and it looked like a 490 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: campaign rally, and there was a It turned out that 491 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: there was a memo that they went out to some 492 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: of the troops at Fort Bragg saying basically saying, if 493 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: you don't you agree with Trump, you don't have to 494 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: come to this and have people that are going to 495 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: be fully supportive. And you know, the military is a 496 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,479 Speaker 1: is a non partisan institution. It has to be. It 497 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: has to be for our country to you know, for 498 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 1: our democracy to mean anything. And and those senior military 499 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: officers for the most part take that really seriously. And 500 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: that's why I think when you know, when hegseeth brings 501 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: them in to do that and gives that speech and 502 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: you see them not respond. They weren't clapping and cheering. 503 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: They were, you know, there they have to follow the orders, 504 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: and they come and they look, but they were not 505 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: going to be political props. 506 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 4: That's good, That's refreshing. 507 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 508 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 6: Okay, let's talk about the media side of it, right, 509 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 6: because we all know that Trump has his thing with 510 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 6: the media that he likes and he dislikes. So there 511 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 6: was the question that you asked him about the hate speech. Yeah, 512 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 6: after Charlie Kirk's death right, and he verbatim said to you, 513 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 6: you asked, what will happen you? 514 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: I asked him, I said, Pam Bond. He says she's 515 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: going to go after hate speech. Some of your own 516 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: allies say, hate speech is free speech. 517 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 6: Yes, And he says that she'll probably go after people 518 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 6: like you because you treat me so unfairly, you have 519 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 6: a lot of hate in your heart. Maybe they'll come 520 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 6: after ABC. ABC paid me sixteen million dollars recently for 521 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 6: a form of hate speech. Your company paid me sixteen 522 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 6: million for a form of hate speech. You'll maybe they'll 523 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 6: have to go after you. Yeah, direct back and forth 524 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 6: like that. Yeah, you're still out here asking these questions 525 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 6: and covering. People are very scared at their jobs right 526 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 6: now in the media space, behind the scenes. What's the 527 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 6: feeling of like, what does media even look like six 528 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 6: months from now if Trump is able to do and 529 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 6: say things like this and then we actually see action. 530 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: How do you feel after he said that? Well, I'll 531 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: tell you that was that was intense because I was 532 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: you know, you don't get surprised much anymore of anything, 533 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: he says. But when he said that, maybe she'll go 534 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: after people like you, like personally, and then he goes 535 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: on and he says, you know, because you've been unfair 536 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: to me, So you're saying that the First Amendment doesn't 537 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: apply to a journalist who the president thinks hasn't been fair. 538 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: I mean, that was that was intense as matter. He said, 539 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: you have a lot of hate in your heart. I 540 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: have to tell you that this is a strange thing. 541 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: I was so taken aback by the notion that the 542 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: President the United States was suggesting that it would because 543 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: hate speech is one He's actually going way further than 544 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: what Pam BONDI said. He's saying, you know, maybe the 545 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: Justice Department will go after reporters who I don't think 546 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: are fair. To me that I didn't even like process. 547 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: The next thing he said, which you have a lot 548 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: of hate in your heart, I didn't even like. I 549 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: don't know something. It's just it just I mean he did. 550 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 2: He's saying, as you next. 551 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it went by me. So when when the whole 552 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: thing ended, one of the photographers behind me said, man, 553 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: do you have hate in your heart? I didn't know 554 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: what he was talking about. I look almost like so, 555 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: I you know, he's he says, he's look, he's taunted. 556 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: He's uh, he attacks journalists. Uh, he attacks journalists. And 557 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: then he takes phone calls from reporters. You know, I 558 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: mean at shortly after he said that it was actually 559 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: in response to the same question, because he went on 560 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: and on and on. He started going off about how Washington, 561 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: d C. Is safe again now that we have the 562 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: National Guard, and you should take your beautiful wife out 563 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,719 Speaker 1: to dinner tonight after you just told me I might, 564 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: maybe I should go next. Yeah, And later in the 565 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: day he he had an event in the Oval Office 566 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: and he turned it into one of these like long 567 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: press conferences, and I continued my questioning about free speech, 568 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: and he got very irritated with me, and he said, uh, 569 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: you know, and you you you think you're a wonderful person. 570 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: You're not a wonderful person. You are a terrible reporter. 571 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: You know it, I know it. Everybody knows it. And 572 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: he goes on and again, this is the President of 573 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: the United States is a reporter. You're not usually in 574 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: a you don't think you're gonna you're gonna have this 575 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: kind of a situation. I what I've done, what I've 576 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: always done, is is I ignore the taunts because it 577 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. I don't want to make it about me, 578 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 1: so I don't. I just don't. I just get back 579 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: to you know, the subject, free speech. But when when 580 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: it ended and they tell the press to get out 581 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: of the Oval office because the photo op is over, 582 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: he motioned to me to come towards the resolute desk 583 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: and he motioned like this, and he said, ye know, 584 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: we're okay, We're okay. And I was like, you were 585 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: you were tough there, and he's like, no, no, you 586 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,239 Speaker 1: were tough. And he starts laughing and then says thank you, 587 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,360 Speaker 1: thank you. As I'm walking out, thank you, John, thank 588 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: you John. So it's like it's like a it's a 589 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: it's a performance. But so and I my one of 590 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: my daughters, uh as I'm get this book's coming out 591 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: and uh just did a quick little I guess at 592 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: Google search. But but to compile some of the things 593 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: that Trump has said about me over the years, it's 594 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: a really long list. But you know, I I to me, 595 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: it's like, I don't care, it doesn't matter, and just 596 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: do my job. And I don't now if he follows 597 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: through with that, and I like, you know, he starts, 598 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: you know, jailing reporters or trying to jail reporters because 599 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: he doesn't like the reporting. You know, we're in a 600 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: whole different place. But you know, to me, A lot 601 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: of it is He's just it's a bit of a game. 602 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: And he does get angry and he does get pissed off. 603 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: He thinks that everybody should be talking about how wonderful 604 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: he is at all times. But you know, I mean, 605 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do that. And I'm also not going 606 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: to sit there and get like my backup because he 607 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: calls me a name. 608 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 6: So no real fear, there's no I'm asking. I mean, 609 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 6: is there real fear that people have because we on 610 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 6: this side it looks like and it feels like. 611 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that some for some people, yes, 612 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: But I can just speak for myself and for my colleagues. 613 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: I mean, another one of my colleagues, Rachel Scott, has 614 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: come under withering attacks from Donald Trump. I mean just 615 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: just relentless. Uh. And she's and by the way, she's 616 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: like ridiculously young. And I don't know where the the 617 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: poise and the you know, I mean, I've been true 618 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: so much of this, but Rachel has got I mean, 619 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: her heartbeat doesn't rise. She just keeps focused on the issue. 620 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: And you know, I mean, does it bother people? Yeah, 621 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: But you do what Rachel does or what I've tried 622 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: to do, which is just stay focused on what you're 623 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: trying to ask and you can't be intimidated. 624 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, there is a normalization that I feel continues to 625 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 5: happen with Trump, not just from the media, but from 626 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 5: like other politicians, especially Democrats. It's like people for some 627 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 5: reason continue to act like this is just politics as usual. 628 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not. 629 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 4: No, And I even saw that with the government shut down. 630 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 5: I'm like, why are y'all talking like y'all can actually 631 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 5: negotiate with MAGA on this issue? Like they got everything 632 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 5: they want in the big beautiful bility. They have no 633 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 5: reason to make concessions when you continue to act like 634 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 5: these are the reasonable politicians who are going to say, 635 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 5: you know what we do care about you know, people's 636 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 5: health care benefits, Like now you know they're not, so 637 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 5: why do you keep acting like that and even trying 638 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 5: to sell that to the people. 639 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: You know that this was the shutdown? I mean, my god. 640 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: So the Democrats realized they had zero leverage except for 641 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: being able to, you know, withhold their votes for keeping 642 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: the government open, and that's the only leverage they had. 643 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: Otherwise the Republicans can just you know, push all this 644 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: even with I mean, the Republican majority is really small, 645 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: It's tiny. I mean it's like it's incredible what's what's 646 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: gone through the House when you consider that, you know, 647 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: they have this this majority that it's almost tied. I mean, 648 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: they can only lose a couple of votes on a 649 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: couple of Republicans on any one issue. But look, they 650 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,239 Speaker 1: so they use the leverage, and you know, in a 651 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: normal world you would think, yeah, I mean, like there's 652 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: so much pain. Look at the Look what's happening to 653 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: the airports. Look what's happening. 654 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 7: Funeral workers that haven't been paid in forty yeah, yeah, 655 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 7: forty million plus people you know, rely on these snap benefits, 656 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 7: and not only are they not as the White House 657 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 7: not doesn't seem concerned about that, they. 658 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: Actually fight efforts by the court, by by by the 659 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: States YEA to continue funding the the snap benefits and 660 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: take it all the way to the Supreme Court, for 661 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: God's sake to try to stop it. So I think 662 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: what what the Democrats saw quite vividly is the pressure 663 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: is not going to work this because when when you're 664 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: playing with somebody that doesn't care. 665 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 4: Well, why did they think it would to begin with? 666 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 5: It's like we've been watching ten years in so right, Yeah, 667 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 5: like what made them think it would work to begin with? 668 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 5: That's what I mean when I say the normalization of it, 669 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 5: because but whatever reason, people haven't adjusted their brains to 670 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 5: realize this. Ain't your grandparents Republicans, Joe. Yeah, if you 671 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 5: can't use words like authoritarian and fascism and not treat 672 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 5: them as such. 673 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so what they will. The way the Democrats 674 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: think that this is ultimately played out is they didn't 675 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: succeed obviously in dealing with the health with healthcare, you know, 676 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: the Obamaca. They'll get their vote, it's not going to 677 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: succeed even if it succeeds in the center. They're not 678 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: going to vote on it in the House. Even if 679 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: they somehow voted on in the House. Trump's not going 680 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: to sign it into law. I mean, there's they're not 681 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,959 Speaker 1: going to get it. They're just not going to get it. 682 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: But what they believe that they have done is they 683 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: have succeeded in making it vividly clear to the world, 684 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: to the country that he is going to do nothing 685 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: for the twenty plus million Americans that are going to 686 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: see their health insurance skyrocket on January first, that he 687 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: would do nothing to help the forty plus million who 688 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: were losing access to snap benefits that make it possible 689 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: to feed their families. 690 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 4: To go create. 691 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: So, I mean, they've been promising a healthcare bill for 692 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: what is it, like eight eight plus year I mean 693 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: a healthcare plan. It's a secret plan, Like it's like 694 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: Nixon's a secret plan to the Vietnam War. 695 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 5: What do you see as the greatest risk to American 696 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 5: democratic institutions in the coming years. 697 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: I think that the greatest risk to our institutions is 698 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: the erosion of the idea of truth. I think this 699 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: is more beyond any single policy thing, beyond even Trump himself. 700 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: Is we now live in a world where you know, 701 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: you can ask someone are you gonna believe me? Or 702 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: your own lion eyes? And it's unclear what they're going 703 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: to believe. It's if you can't agree on what the 704 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: facts are, how do you overcome divisions? How do you 705 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: get anything done? And you know it's Trump has accelerated this. 706 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: He didn't start it. He has accelerated this. And now 707 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: throw into the mix artificial intelligence. I mean it's like 708 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: we are in an we are in a crazy land. 709 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: And by the way, I see it on the left 710 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: as well, where you know the crazy conspiracy theories you know, 711 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: of late have been the province of the of the right, 712 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: all the wacky conspiracy theories around twenty twenty and you 713 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: know Sydney Powell saying the dead Venezuelans rigged voting machines, 714 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: or voting machines were controlled by spy satellites. I mean, 715 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 1: the crazy, crazy stuff. And now I mean I can't 716 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: tell you many people, I'll come and tell you that 717 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: you know, Trump brigged the twenty twenty four election, and 718 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: it was Elon Musk and it was Starlink and they 719 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: controlled the voting sheets. It's like the same conspiracies. It's like, 720 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: can we just try to establish facts? And that's the 721 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: business that I am in, and I'm desperately trying. That's 722 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: why I wanted to write these books again because I 723 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: wanted to. First of all, I felt I had the 724 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: access and I had the vantage point I to be 725 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: able to shed new light on the events that were 726 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: going through. But I also wanted to make sure that 727 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: people don't rewrite it and pretend things that happened that 728 00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:57,959 Speaker 1: didn't happen. 729 00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 5: Yeah, right, So that means all your books are getting banned, 730 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 5: so yeah, soon whether they're done. If you were looking back, 731 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 5: this is my last question, if you were looking back 732 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 5: in ten to twenty years at this campaign, what will 733 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 5: historians say it did to the Republican Party, What would 734 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 5: they say it did. 735 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 4: To the presidency and the media. 736 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 5: And what do you hope your legacy will be as 737 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 5: a chronicler of this era. 738 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,919 Speaker 1: I think that it utterly it completed the utter transformation 739 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: of the Republican Party from the Republican Party to the 740 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 1: Trump Party. It started before the campaign, but it was 741 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: absolutely solidified. This is not Reagan's Republican Party. It's not 742 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: Bush's Republican Party. It's not Paul Ryan's, it's not Mitt Romney's. 743 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: This is an entirely different Republican Party, both substantly, substantly 744 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 1: in terms of policy and just in terms of the 745 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: the force of the personality of Trump. How long that lasts, 746 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,959 Speaker 1: what it means after there is no longer a Donald 747 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: Trump remains to be seen. But I don't think you 748 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: suddenly go back to the old Republican Party that's gone 749 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: the country. I think it it just solidified that division 750 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: in our country. That is not going to be overcome 751 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: after Trump is gone. I mean, we are in a 752 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: we are in a place where we have a we 753 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: have a political and cultural divide in the country that 754 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: I don't think is going to go away. And you know, 755 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: in terms of my legacy on this or I don't 756 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: know if I even look at it that way. But 757 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: what I hope people will say is, look, fifty years 758 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: from now, one hundred years from now, people are going 759 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: to want to ask what the hell was that all about? 760 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: And I hope that these books, especially this one, somebody 761 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: can say, read this and you'll get a sense of 762 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: what it was like and how it happened. 763 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 3: All right, get it before his ban j'all's resolution down 764 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 3: Trump in the campaign that changed America. 765 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 2: Jonathan Coll Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us. 766 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: Hey, it's awesome to be with the Breakfast Club. Thank you. 767 00:37:58,360 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 2: It's this club. 768 00:37:59,280 --> 00:37:59,720 Speaker 1: Good morning. 769 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,760 Speaker 5: Hold up every day I wake up, click your glass 770 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 5: up the breakfast clubs. 771 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 4: You're dumb, h