Speaker 1: What's going on? Everyone? Welcome back to the Fantasy Rose
Speaker 1: Football Podcast. Today. I'm your host Derek Brown and with
Speaker 1: me as Andrew Erickson. We're recording live from the NFL Combine.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be giving you these microcasts today and tomorrows.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned to the feed today. For this episode, we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the tight end position and what
Speaker 1: these guys did and didn't do at the NFL Combine
Speaker 1: on Friday night. And before I get Andrew in here,
Speaker 1: who talk about a disappointing night. I mean it was bad.
Speaker 1: You had guys running slow forties. You had guys that
Speaker 1: were tweeters. We're gonna talk about you soon here, Fan
Speaker 1: and Junior, and guys that really really face planted didn't
Speaker 1: help their NFL draft stock. But we are going to
Speaker 1: talk about a few guys that might be rising at
Speaker 1: the board ericson. I'm gonna get you in here, man.
Speaker 1: I mean, look it, I know we both kind of
Speaker 1: were sending in the stands and we felt like overall
Speaker 1: it was a disappointing night. Before we get into players'
Speaker 1: specific takes here and talk about writers and follers, what
Speaker 1: were your overall thoughts of Friday Night's NFL combine for
Speaker 1: the tight end position.
Speaker 2: Overall, thoughts were pretty underwhelming to say the least. You know,
Speaker 2: we were thinking that we would get a really fast
Speaker 2: four yard dash time from hail Fan and Junior. That
Speaker 2: ended up not being the case whatsoever. We figured, Okay,
Speaker 2: this guy can break at least four seven and run
Speaker 2: into low four to sixes, but that ended up not
Speaker 2: being the reality. So however, we did get one surprising
Speaker 2: guy that kind of popped off that will break down
Speaker 2: a Oregon duck, so someone that Bonix used to throw
Speaker 2: the football to. So he was a really surprise and
Speaker 2: kind of a pleasant surprise in that aspect. But the
Speaker 2: main three guys that were kind of most excited about
Speaker 2: for fantasy football purposes, between Royo, Loveland and Warren, none
Speaker 2: of those guys tested, and those are gonna be the
Speaker 2: first three tight ends drafted, and the guys are going
Speaker 2: to probably be most fantasy relevant. So disappointed that they
Speaker 2: didn't get a chance to really show, okay is what
Speaker 2: they can do, but they were wise and Spirin Oleven
Speaker 2: was in a sling, so there was no chance he
Speaker 2: was going to be testing or I was also dealing
Speaker 2: with something as well, but looking forward to chopping out though.
Speaker 1: Without further ado. Man, let's jump into this. Terrence Ferguson
Speaker 1: tight End out of Oregon. We got to talk about
Speaker 1: him because he blazed some really impressive combine numbers. I
Speaker 1: know you haven't gotten to his film yet. I wrote
Speaker 1: him up already. I'm gonna go back and amend some
Speaker 1: of my write up, but talk about Terrence Ferguson what
Speaker 1: he did and what do you think this did to
Speaker 1: his NFL draft talk.
Speaker 2: Well, he's going to probably be drafted, I would say
Speaker 2: on day two. Now. He was kind of on the fringe.
Speaker 2: You've looked at mock draft database in terms of them
Speaker 2: aggregating all of the consensus big boards. He was a
Speaker 2: player that was constantly going inside the top one hundred picks,
Speaker 2: but it was on the fringe. And I think that
Speaker 2: he's at least solidified himself, if not, you know, in
Speaker 2: early round four selection, but someone that can be drafted
Speaker 2: in the beginning or middle of round three. You know,
Speaker 2: you look at the measurables that he posted. Basically, he
Speaker 2: led all tight end in four yard dash time, he
Speaker 2: was first in the vertical jump. He had a great
Speaker 2: ten yard split in the ninety first percentile. So we've
Speaker 2: written this all up in our article if people want
Speaker 2: to go check out every single metric in terms of
Speaker 2: how he performed. But he was fantastic and he really
Speaker 2: showed that he could be above his athleticism. And I
Speaker 2: think it's interesting to bring up one of the comps
Speaker 2: that you had Debro before the NFL combine. You comped
Speaker 2: him to Kate Aughton. So Awton isn't really noticed as
Speaker 2: a player that's like over the athletic, like he kind
Speaker 2: of does what's asked of him as a tight end,
Speaker 2: and it's like, are we getting a potential juiced up
Speaker 2: Kate Auton with Terrence Ferguson. It's like okay, like like
Speaker 2: a we can potentially work with that. So yeah, he's
Speaker 2: someone that I'm excited to kind of go back and see, Okay,
Speaker 2: is this athleticism on his tape as well? You know?
Speaker 2: Is he making it in part of the Oregon offense.
Speaker 2: So someone that we need to take a looker deep
Speaker 2: at because he has those efficiency marks too, fourteenth in
Speaker 2: your arts out run fourteen and PFF for steven grade
Speaker 2: thirty yards after the Cats per perception, So he's really
Speaker 2: checking off every single box that you're looking for. Where
Speaker 2: the analytics are there, Yes, the raw counting stats weren't
Speaker 2: really there, but everything else, Ferguson is looking like a
Speaker 2: nice sleeper tight end prospect.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I mean I agree with everything you outline there,
Speaker 1: and I think like to add on to this and
Speaker 1: just looking at the overall landscape of the tight end
Speaker 1: position in this class. Now we're maybe talking about Terrence
Speaker 1: Ferguson considering some of the guys we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about in the followers section that honestly face planted, Terrence
Speaker 1: Ferguson might be the tight end four when it's all
Speaker 1: said and done in this class where he goes in
Speaker 1: the NFL Draft and where teams are going to rank
Speaker 1: him and move him around their boards considering what he
Speaker 1: did and what other players didn't do at the NFL
Speaker 1: Combine on Friday night, and I want to zoom out
Speaker 1: just thousand foot view on this NFL draft class. We
Speaker 1: discussed this in the Riser Follower article depending on when
Speaker 1: you're listening to this on fantasypros dot Com right now,
Speaker 1: but the overall thoughts of this class, I think that
Speaker 1: Friday night, before we get into our second riser. I
Speaker 1: just got to talk about, man like, these top three
Speaker 1: tight ends and specifically talking about Tyler Warren tight end
Speaker 1: out of Penn State, Colston Loveland tight end out of Michigan,
Speaker 1: and Elijah Royo tight end out of Miami. They pretty
Speaker 1: much distanced themselves as the top three tight ends in
Speaker 1: this class without even testing. Man Like, they're probably gonna
Speaker 1: be athletic if they test okay, if they test good,
Speaker 1: they're gonna hold their stock. And the divide between those
Speaker 1: top three guys and the rest of this class probably widened.
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was gonna be that wide, but again,
Speaker 1: you had the guys in that second tier. Gunner Helm's
Speaker 1: a name we're gonna talk about here in a little bit.
Speaker 1: Harold Fannin Junior another guy we're going to discuss in
Speaker 1: a little bit. But those guys were in that tight
Speaker 1: end three need a tight end five kind of conversation.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you look at do you see this
Speaker 1: any different ericson where it's like, do you think that
Speaker 1: this is a wider divide now or do you think
Speaker 1: these guys can still be bunched up or maybe Terrence
Speaker 1: Ferguson can put himself inject himself into that conversation as
Speaker 1: we move along.
Speaker 2: I think, if anything, he maybe just cement himself atop
Speaker 2: the next tier, or maybe now he's not someone that
Speaker 2: we're just totally writing off, but now okay, he is
Speaker 2: in that next tier with Harold Fannin. It's interesting because Fannin,
Speaker 2: I think had the most to gain from a strong
Speaker 2: forty yard dash time where he would be cementing himself
Speaker 2: within that top tier with those three other guys, like
Speaker 2: he had a chance. If he had run out gone
Speaker 2: with a four to six or something along those lines,
Speaker 2: well we would be talking about him. Oh, he is
Speaker 2: that fourth tight end in that tier one. But because
Speaker 2: of how he tested, which again relative to the other
Speaker 2: tight ends that also tested like he was actually pretty good.
Speaker 2: But comparing him to the top of the class, well,
Speaker 2: don't think it's going to shake out that way. And
Speaker 2: obviously we'll dive int him a little bit more specifically
Speaker 2: when we're talking about some of the folloers.
Speaker 1: I agree with everything he laid out there. And the
Speaker 1: next guy we got to bring up here, the last
Speaker 1: riser for the tight end position for Friday's NFL combine,
Speaker 1: has to be Joshua Simon tight End out of South Carolina,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to keep this a bug, dude. I'm
Speaker 1: going to be transparent here. I have not gotten to
Speaker 1: Simon's film. I hadn't even looked at his analytics. And
Speaker 1: so after Friday, this dude went out and put on
Speaker 1: a show Eric sent for a guy that, like, you
Speaker 1: look at expected draft positions, you go to mock draft
Speaker 1: database and.
Speaker 3: You're like, this dude is sitting get tight End twenty two.
Speaker 3: You got to scroll down for a while before you
Speaker 3: get to his name. I wasn't familiar with his name.
Speaker 3: It's like the Shack gift for the meme where it's like,
Speaker 3: excuse me, I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with your game, sir.
Speaker 1: But looking at Joshua Simon and what he did on
Speaker 1: Friday night, like we got to talk about him, dude,
Speaker 1: because again other guys face planting and guys that we're
Speaker 1: seeing that maybe hoped in the ranks and on some
Speaker 1: draft boards depending on this testing, Joshua Simon has put
Speaker 1: himself in the mix for a Day three pick for
Speaker 1: a player that he went out ran a forty yard
Speaker 1: dash at four point sixty five, seventy eighth percentile, his
Speaker 1: vert was ninety third percentile. Also his broad jump ninety
Speaker 1: first percentile, ten yards split eighty six percent percentile, eighty
Speaker 1: six percentile. Excuse me, I mean check, check, check, just
Speaker 1: all the boxes are being checked. And then when I
Speaker 1: pulled up his analytics as we go to like research
Speaker 1: and write the article for the site, I'm like, ooh,
Speaker 1: this dude's also was twenty fifth in yards per out
Speaker 1: run against all FBS tight ends with twenty or more
Speaker 1: targets last year, and ericson he was seventh best in
Speaker 1: YAK per reception. Dude, my spider sense is tangling with
Speaker 1: this guy. I mean, just based off the analytics, the testing,
Speaker 1: I hadn't gotten into the film. So unless the film
Speaker 1: is just terrible, I love this guy like he jumped
Speaker 1: out the freaking gym and put himself on the map.
Speaker 1: So if you're sitting in dynasty rookie drafts, especially in
Speaker 1: tight end premium formats, maybe this is a guy you're
Speaker 1: ear marking for that fourth round pick. Assuming that he
Speaker 1: goes somewhere say round four, round five, I even ge
Speaker 1: him round five draft capital, you need to consider him
Speaker 1: and keep him ear marked in your queue when he
Speaker 1: gets the Dynasty rookie draft season, Eric's and anybody anything
Speaker 1: else to add on Simon?
Speaker 2: Well, like you, I had not really had much exposure
Speaker 2: to Joshua Simon, did not know much about him. And
Speaker 2: it's now, okay, we've seen him test. He has this
Speaker 2: athleticism to him. What are we missing here? You know,
Speaker 2: why haven't we been talking about him enough? And is
Speaker 2: this enough to get start talking about him? And I'm
Speaker 2: just looking at some of his career numbers here, looking
Speaker 2: at some of the raw stuff where you know, South
Speaker 2: Carolina in these past two seasons and you know, caught
Speaker 2: Dyne touchdown like this past year over five hundred receiving yards,
Speaker 2: seven touchdowns, forty catches, So clear the guy, you know,
Speaker 2: can go out and catch the football. But he's been
Speaker 2: in college for six years, so he's he's been he
Speaker 2: started Western Kentucky in twenty nineteen. So this isn't a
Speaker 2: player that, oh, well, you know, we'll give him some time.
Speaker 2: He's had time. So that is one concern. You know,
Speaker 2: how does he do as an older player? But we've
Speaker 2: kind of seen these work both ways, where players that
Speaker 2: are older and more experienced. So I'd come in and
Speaker 2: kind of hit the ground running. You know, I don't
Speaker 2: think that he is this like ugem necessary with a
Speaker 2: amazing talent per se and like how high is his ceiling,
Speaker 2: But given how experienced he is, well he can probably
Speaker 2: pick up an NFL off. It's a little bit faster
Speaker 2: than some of these more younger, younger tight ends that
Speaker 2: are relying more a little bit on skill, where Simon
Speaker 2: has a lag up with the experience and obviously now
Speaker 2: the athleticism to kind of help that along.
Speaker 1: And just to bookend this, Joshua Simon right now, at
Speaker 1: least the ages that I can find, he's only twenty
Speaker 1: four years old, so he's not the Tyler Shuck of
Speaker 1: tight ends. Let's just throw that out there, guy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have to throw that out there, just because we
Speaker 1: are talking about how long he was in college for
Speaker 1: getting off the olds and getting into the new of
Speaker 1: We got to talk about followers here, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: lead this off Ericson because this is my pain train,
Speaker 1: this is my anti love letter. This is a guy
Speaker 1: that based off of the film and based off the analytics,
Speaker 1: I was really considering to push him into tight end three.
Speaker 1: Like my first set of rankings that came out on
Speaker 1: fantasypros dot com. He was my tight end three in
Speaker 1: the battle based off the day. It could be a Royo,
Speaker 1: it could have been gunner Helm. Dude. It was a
Speaker 1: painful day. Pet Friday was pain, all pain, all the time.
Speaker 1: We're sitting in the stands and we got there a
Speaker 1: little bit late, just just to let people know how
Speaker 1: this all unfolded. We got a little bit late to
Speaker 1: the stadium. Gunner Helm had already run his first forty.
Speaker 1: I get a text from friend of the show, Brett Whitefield,
Speaker 1: and he said, oh dear, You're not gonna be happy,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what what happened? Oh gosh, what happened?
Speaker 1: Gunner Helm goes out and he runs a four to
Speaker 1: nine to three. Yes you heard me, correct people, a
Speaker 1: four nine three forty in his first attempt. Didn't get
Speaker 1: much better in his second attempt because he couldn't clear
Speaker 1: four eight, and he decided after those two bad attempts
Speaker 1: he did not want to run a third time. This
Speaker 1: this is me working this out ericson. I'm working out
Speaker 1: pain here right on the show. And it was it
Speaker 1: was tough to watch this because I'm running this through
Speaker 1: my head and I'm watching him and put up these numbers.
Speaker 1: And all I'm screaming inside of my head and to
Speaker 1: anybody that would listen to the sands, was why why
Speaker 1: is he running? Why is he testing? Why is his
Speaker 1: agent not saying do this? You should be doing this.
Speaker 1: This is bad, don't do this. But it happened, so
Speaker 1: we got to discuss it. And I'll say this, and
Speaker 1: this is exactly what I put in the article, and
Speaker 1: I stand by it. Four point eight or higher and
Speaker 1: a forty yard dash is a coffin nail for fantasy.
Speaker 1: You can name the guys on one hand over the
Speaker 1: last ten to fifteen years that will put up productive
Speaker 1: fantasy seasons. That list gets even shorter if you talk
Speaker 1: about multiple productive fantasy seasons. Basically, it's Kyle Rudolph and
Speaker 1: there's nobody else. It's end of list. And now, if
Speaker 1: gunner Helm somehow becomes a productive asset for fantasy, he
Speaker 1: will be one of the most massive outlier of outliers.
Speaker 1: And it makes me so sad because I loved this film,
Speaker 1: was really high on him entering this process, but now
Speaker 1: ericson like he's basically undraftable unless we get just massively
Speaker 1: different numbers, or we get some kind of news that
Speaker 1: comes out that gunner Helm was running with one hamstring.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's gonna change it, but something would
Speaker 1: have to change it for him to become a draftable
Speaker 1: player in Dynasty and Redraft after these testing numbers. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna turn this over to you because and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go get some ice for all these wounds and
Speaker 1: some band aids.
Speaker 2: Right now, I think to answer your first question, why
Speaker 2: did he run well? Dude, haven't you been paying attention
Speaker 2: to all these Texas receive everyone's breaking in the forty
Speaker 2: yard dash time. We just wanted to get it on
Speaker 2: the fun Isaiah Bond talks about he's going to break
Speaker 2: the Ford that way Xavier Worthy set last year, Jaden Blue,
Speaker 2: he's going to run four to two, and gunner Helm,
Speaker 2: I get another Texas guy. Just wanted to get him
Speaker 2: on the funy and you want to be left out.
Speaker 2: And now he's going to be remembered for all the
Speaker 2: wrong reasons by running basically the worst time and being
Speaker 2: the least athletic tight end that tested during the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five NFL scouting combine. So we'll always have that
Speaker 2: and if anything, now I have one less tight end
Speaker 2: that I have to watch because I know that Gunner
Speaker 2: Helm is not going to be someone that we're going
Speaker 2: to draft for fantasy football purposes.
Speaker 1: So sorry man. And just because I talked about his
Speaker 1: forty yard dash before we move move on to Harold
Speaker 1: Fanning Junior, just so everybody can contextualize this. Gunner Helm
Speaker 1: forty yard dash four point eighty four, thirty third percentile,
Speaker 1: his vert thirty inches seventeenth percentile, his three cone fifteenth percentile,
Speaker 1: his ten yards split twenty twenty fourth percentile. There's nothing
Speaker 1: good to see here. So with that, we are going
Speaker 1: to turn this over to Harold Fanning Junior. And Fana
Speaker 1: Junior was a guy that I thought had a solid,
Speaker 1: not spectacular mobile. I talked about this on previous shows
Speaker 1: with Seth on the NFL Draft Show. If you're listening
Speaker 1: to this, you need to be subscribed to the Dynasty
Speaker 1: podcast feed and tuning into the NFL Draft Show. The
Speaker 1: entire the entirety of the NFL Draft process, we are
Speaker 1: going through everything with magical guests. But Fana Junior, I
Speaker 1: was worried about could he how was he going to
Speaker 1: come out here and test ericson for a player on
Speaker 1: film that it was like, Okay, the short area is there,
Speaker 1: the short area of quickness is there. But considering his size,
Speaker 1: because he did weigh in here at the combine at
Speaker 1: two forty one, I'm here to tell people that does
Speaker 1: not freaking matter. Because he was two thirty eight at
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl. The three pound difference does not matter. If
Speaker 1: you've ever weighed yourself in the morning and gone back
Speaker 1: and weighed yourself in the afternoon, you can bury five
Speaker 1: to six pounds. Who knows. So I don't care that
Speaker 1: he weighed in a little bit heavier here at the combine.
Speaker 1: He's still the same height. He's still the same archetype player,
Speaker 1: which is a tweeter. I know. In our conversations here
Speaker 1: at the combine I evoked the name Jaheim bel a
Speaker 1: Ton because I am worried. Although the testing wasn't as
Speaker 1: terrible as maybe I was worried about, it also wasn't amazing.
Speaker 1: Erickson and I know you're gonna run through all of this,
Speaker 1: but tell me what are your thoughts about Fan and Junior.
Speaker 1: I'm worried after and you're gonna lay this all out.
Speaker 1: I'm worried after this. NFL combine showing with the archetype
Speaker 1: of player that he is. He's not an inline guy.
Speaker 1: He's coming from a smaller school. Now you add in
Speaker 1: the testing help me feel a little bit better about
Speaker 1: Fan and Junior and the fact that maybe he doesn't
Speaker 1: fall into the back end of round on four, maybe
Speaker 1: round five taugh me off the ledge here.
Speaker 2: I think that the issue with with Fan and again,
Speaker 2: he's already a very polarizing player where you know, he
Speaker 2: didn't play in line a lot. At the college level,
Speaker 2: he's going to have to be used more as a
Speaker 2: receiving tight end. That's going to be his primary focus.
Speaker 2: That's kind of where he is at the tweeener. But
Speaker 2: we've seen this with players a lot of the time
Speaker 2: where they're not big enough to be a full time
Speaker 2: tight end, but they're too big to be a wide receiver.
Speaker 2: So it gets confusing based on what type of usage,
Speaker 2: and you're just hoping that, oh, he goes to a
Speaker 2: team that knows how to take care of him and
Speaker 2: use him the right way. So I think that just
Speaker 2: based on because overall, his his vertical jumps broad jump
Speaker 2: both in the sixty fifth percent diles ten yard split
Speaker 2: was actually really good one point five six eighty nine
Speaker 2: percent dile. It was the forty yard dash that kind
Speaker 2: of was a little bit eye eyebrow raising where sixty
Speaker 2: fifth percentile four seven to one and leading up to
Speaker 2: his forty yard dash, I mean, we were hearing things
Speaker 2: that this guy is gonna be running in the four sixes,
Speaker 2: like he was clocked with one of the fastest times
Speaker 2: at the Senior Bowl that obviously did not translate on Friday,
Speaker 2: and you brought up the point where he says fastest
Speaker 2: at the jump, and then he continued to slow down
Speaker 2: as he was going. Maybe he was not used to
Speaker 2: carrying all this weight on his body that he magically
Speaker 2: got just in time for the for the weigh ins.
Speaker 2: I think that it's not all lost on Fannin because
Speaker 2: I think that if he doesn't with a creative schemer,
Speaker 2: I know, we talked about Denver Broncos, like their team
Speaker 2: that wants to draft the tight end, whether it is
Speaker 2: Fannin now that he falls, I mean we talked about
Speaker 2: who could be you know, this year's Troy Franklin. Well,
Speaker 2: maybe it's Aryl Fannin and he ends up falling today
Speaker 2: three and who would end up taking him a team
Speaker 2: like the Denver Broncos who took Troy Franklin and then
Speaker 2: so those are kind of some of the scenarios I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about with Fannin.
Speaker 1: You have much more of a glass half full approach
Speaker 1: than me. For Fanning right now, I'm going to leave
Speaker 1: the light on for him ericson. I don't know if
Speaker 1: Fannin's gonna answer the call, but we'll see. Man, I'll
Speaker 1: maintain some sliver of hope. But so with all of that,
Speaker 1: we got risers, we got followers, we got testing for
Speaker 1: tight ends on Friday night. Don't worry, We're not going anywhere, people,
Speaker 1: We're gonna be back here with the quarterbacks, running backs,
Speaker 1: and wide receiver testing with another micro cast here for
Speaker 1: the show. You gotta stay locked in as well as
Speaker 1: if you haven't heard, we're on Twitch. Baby, we got
Speaker 1: to Twitch live stream. We're gonna be live nine to
Speaker 1: thirty pm Eastern on Twitch for Fantasy pros as well
Speaker 1: as a ton more content. We got updated Dynasty rankings.
Speaker 1: The Dynasty trade value chart will be out of the
Speaker 1: first of the month, as well as risers and folloers
Speaker 1: article on the site for quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers.
Speaker 1: So for Ericson and myself right now, we are out
Speaker 1: of here. Stay locked in. We're gonna bring you home
Speaker 1: for the NFL Draft all the time on Fantasy.
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