1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: today's best minds and Republicans are in disarray over herschel 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: Walker's loss, and we have a show of shows today. 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: Rhode Island's pride Senator Sheldon white House will stop by 6 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: to talk to us about a new bill that curbs 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: gas companies price gouging. Then we'll talk to Trump legal 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: trouble expert Bloomberg's Tim O'Brien, who will fill us in 9 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: on the aftermath of the Trump organization being convicted of 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: tax fraud. But first we have Fast Politics, Faith and 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: host of in the Time of Monsters, the nation's g tire. 12 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics. GT here, good to be 13 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: here as always. Well, I'm such a fan of yours. 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: I love having you on the podcast. And now we 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: must talk about very important things like I swear to God, 16 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: I feel like our country is getting stupider. Trump's Jewish 17 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: allies are begging him to condemn Kanye. He's refusing. Yeah, 18 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: but I mean that's not out of the norm. I mean, 19 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: I think one thing that Trump realized early on is 20 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: that apologies for losers and then he would look weak 21 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: if he ever apologizes. Week that is to this, you know, 22 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: the hardcore geop he based that loves them, so like 23 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, like going back to like you know, when 24 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: you insulted John McCain or or did innumerable things, he 25 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: never apologizes, So that's not out of the ordinary. What's 26 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: interesting is Trump's Jewish allies, like you know, that itself 27 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: is a very oxymoronic at best. And it's a really 28 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: great interview with I think the greatest living interviewer, Isaac 29 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: Chutner in the New Yorker, with Morton Klein, the head 30 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: of the Zionist Organization of America, which is like you know, 31 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: unfortunately has some standing among the official Jewish organizations. It's 32 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: part of a national commission, but it actually, you know, 33 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: like it's far to the right and does not really 34 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: represent like, you know, the seventy of American Jews who 35 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: woted for Democrats, and they recently gave the Theatre Herzel 36 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: Prize to Donald Trump, their highest honor. And the interview 37 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: is fascinating because he says, like, you know, I can't 38 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: believe that like Trump would meet with Kanye and with 39 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: Nick fluentez Uh and it's so disillusioning because we just 40 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: gave him this a word a few weeks ago, and 41 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: I know Donald Trump is not an anti Semite. What 42 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, my friend, I'm sorry. He just like you know, 43 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: there's a numerous times are Trump you know, he hasn't said, 44 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: well he's he's yeah. Yeah, I mean going back to 45 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: like Charlotte's vale of you know, good people on both sides. 46 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: And Klein managed to find excuses for all that. And 47 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: I mean his basic thing is, well Trump, you know, 48 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: he loves Israel and he moved the embassy to Jerusalem, 49 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: and one has to think about it as a sort 50 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: of quid pro coal like Trump kind of made this 51 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: overtures to sort of right wing Zionism, was very close 52 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: to net and yahoo um. And for that, you know, 53 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: he was excused a lot of things. But even Trump 54 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: has managed to do stuff that work Incline finds offensive, 55 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: which is amazing because that is who like literally forgive 56 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: almost anything, Like you literally have to have like dinner 57 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: with an outright Holocaust denying Nazi like Nick Fluentez for 58 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: him to get on your case if you support nothing 59 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 1: out um. So so that's kind of so yeah, I 60 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: mean it is. Uh. Yeah, I don't know if the 61 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: world is getting crazier or I think that I actually 62 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: think that there's a sort of interesting fissure that's not 63 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: opening up. I think Trump has gone so far that 64 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: even very right wing Jews are sort of like, I 65 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know, like this is I think 66 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: that's actually very salutary. But I think let's the old joke, 67 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: you know, like the woman who votes for Tiger's clawing 68 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: out people's faces, a surprise that the tiger attacked her. 69 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: You know. I think some people in Trump's coalition are 70 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: realizing that, you know, like Okay, we're next, you know, 71 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: like he's so so Yeah. I think I think that's 72 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: actually quite salutary. I mean, I don't know. I just 73 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: watched a video of Kelly and Conway talking to Larry 74 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: Cudlow about how they wished Trump would disavow white supremacists. 75 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: I was like, did they just don't know him? I 76 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: don't think it's abe that they don't know him, but 77 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: like those people, they're kind of role is to mediate 78 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: between Trump and the more normal Republicans, and even beyond that, 79 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,119 Speaker 1: the more normal you know, parts of the media and 80 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: the centrist world. I mean, like something like Kelly and Conway. 81 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: Like she's you know, pretty close friends with a lot 82 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: of people, say it Saturday the life, you know, which 83 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: has always been very kind to her. So for her, 84 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: it's like a kind of marriage of convenience and and 85 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: Trump is disrupting their ability to have plausible non i ability. 86 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: But I mean, I think she knows Trump very well, 87 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: and I think more to the point, Trump knows Trump 88 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: very well, and Trump knows his base very well, and 89 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: he knows if he ever apologizes, that would actually be 90 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: a real problem for him. I think I think the 91 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: base partially loves him because he refuses to apologize, because 92 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: they think apology is a sign of weakness. It's like 93 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: that's what a sissy does. Excuse the archaic and offensive language. 94 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: But that's what a penzy does, right, And you know, 95 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: you're a real man, you don't apologize. I mean Obama 96 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: went around the world and you know, trying to rebuild 97 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: the alliances that Bush broken and apologize for some of 98 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: the stuff in the war and terror, and that was 99 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: hugely offensive. Like the idea that you know, like you 100 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: would ever apologize for a mistake, right exactly. I mean 101 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,559 Speaker 1: so let's talk about there's a lot of other weird 102 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: ship going on. The January six Committee is going to 103 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: make criminal referrals, but we don't know about Oh yeah, 104 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: I mean do you feel like they should have said 105 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: who they were going to refer about her? Now? Yeah? 106 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: I mean on the whole, I feel like they should 107 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: have been trying to be a bit more open about it. 108 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: And I mean my big concern is, like the Republicans 109 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: are gonna take over the House and they're gonna like, 110 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: you know, use it as a fishing expedition. So I 111 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: wish all this stuff had been you know, done earlier 112 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: and had been wrapped up. I mean, I think there 113 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: were sort of political considerations, and to some degree they 114 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: played good politics. I mean, I think the January six 115 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: like commission was really useful for the Democrats and really 116 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: useful in reminding people how dangerous, uh that you know, 117 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: the Trump Republicans have been. But yeah, I mean I 118 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: wish a lot of this stuff had been done earlier 119 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: and been a little bit more out in the open, 120 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 1: whatever the political cost, because I actually think that like 121 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: there's like, in terms of investigation, like we're going to 122 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: see the GOP takeover and they're going to go on 123 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 1: a fishing expedition to go through to find any little 124 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: mistake to try to discredit what's been done so far. Yeah, 125 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: that does seem very likely, right yeah. Yeah, And so 126 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: it's sort of I don't know. I mean, it's a 127 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: tough call. I understand the timing of why they did 128 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: it when they did, but in some ways it should 129 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: have everything should have been done much earlier. There was 130 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: just are in the Washington Post where it said Trump's 131 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: lawyers found that he you know, vouched that he had 132 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: no classified material. And then immediately after that there was 133 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: a story in the New York Times that show the 134 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: Trump had classified material in in these other storage areas. 135 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: I mean, that's I feel like that's how Trump plays 136 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: it all the time, right, Oh yeah, I know absolutely. 137 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: I mean this goes back to what you said earlier, 138 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: like do we not know Trump? Do we not know that? 139 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: You know, this guy will like lie about anything. And 140 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: I actually to tie you this in with like the 141 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: earlier discussion about the Kanye you know, one of the 142 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: things that came out was that Nick Flentes was able 143 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: to have dinner with Trump because the Secret Service basically, 144 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: let's Trump people run their own security at Mara Lego. 145 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: It's it's a private club, which means that basically anyone 146 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: the Trump like you know, is willing to see can 147 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: go in there. And you know, they have i know, 148 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: the nuclear codes in a closet somewhere like I just 149 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: does not seem a good situation, right for a good 150 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: place to keep classified material. No, absolutely not. And I 151 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: have always thought that this is something that could go somewhere. 152 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: It's gonna be a little bit trickier with like GFP 153 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: control of the House, but still the National security state 154 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: takes all this stuff very seriously, and it does seem 155 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: like on the legal front, like we are start of 156 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: seeing finally some accountability and some like you know, the 157 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: inertia of the legal system being overcome. I mean, we 158 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: saw that with like Cramp organization, and they're sort of 159 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: criminal liabilities that they're now facing. So hopefully this will 160 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: this will actually be I mean I'm using not a 161 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: person to say, you know, we should rely on the 162 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: system to work, because the system doesn't work often. But 163 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: I actually think that this is this stuff is like 164 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: a gravity where even the sort of you know, difference 165 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: that people give to a former President, I think even 166 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: that can be overcome. Yeah, it does seem like their justice, 167 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: whatever that means is is actually kind of grinding along. 168 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: In America. We have a very exciting phenomenon going on 169 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: where people are shooting at the power grounds because we 170 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: don't have enough guns and obviously we need to have 171 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: more bonds. What do you think about this so far? 172 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I saw some stuff indicating that this might 173 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: be related to the right wing terrorism, although I think 174 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: the charges haven't been laid and so there's a lot 175 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: of like serve murkiness in the story. And part of 176 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: the murkiness is that I think, unfortunately, like some of 177 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: the sheriffs in these places might be sympathetic with the 178 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: people doing the shooting. So yeah, I mean, on a 179 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: broader thing, like you know, like we know from the 180 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: f V, I know, the source of right wing terrorism 181 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: is a real thing, and it's a growing threat, and 182 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: it does seem increasingly likely that if Republicans face defeat 183 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: in the ballot boxes, as they you know, basically did 184 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: in the mid terms and in the last election, and 185 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: they have this sort of conspiratorial review to the system 186 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: was rigged against them, you're going to see more and 187 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: more political violence coming from the right, and you're gonna 188 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: see more more of this stuff. I mean, I just 189 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: I just think it's like, you know, having said, you know, 190 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: I want to be careful because charges haven't been laid, right, 191 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: I mean, we don't know what it is, but certainly 192 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: guns are involved. So I don't think it's planned parenthood 193 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: that is going out and shooting the right, like I 194 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: don't think it's the League of Women Borders that are 195 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: but that league of conservation voters you have to keep 196 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: your eye on. We can draw, you know, reasonable differences. 197 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: Are have our suspicions as to who's doing this. And 198 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: I think the broader thing to keep in mind is 199 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: that the radical right is becoming more violent as a 200 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: natural outgrowth of this sort of propaganda that they're being fed, 201 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: they're being told and they're not only in that they 202 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: were robbed, that the political system doesn't work, and that 203 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: you know, they're basically gonna lose their whole way of 204 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: life to these dictatorial democrats. Now, what happens when people 205 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: feel that they can't express themselves politically, you know, they 206 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: turn to violence. And and so the very messaging that 207 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: Trump and a lot of elected Republicans are doing is 208 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: sort of adding fuel to the fire of right wing violence. 209 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: So I think it's a real problem. And I mean, 210 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: all we can do is call them out on this 211 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: and keep you know, saying this language, this politics is 212 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: getting people killed, which it is. Yeah. No, I mean 213 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: I think that's really scary, and it does seem like 214 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: we are just very lucky every day that there isn't violence. Yeah, 215 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: I think it's good to have like a broad perspective 216 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: on this right. So I actually think the number of 217 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: people that are actually willing to go and commit like 218 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 1: these violent acts are not like larger number, and I 219 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: think American society can handle that. The problem is really 220 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: that while they're not larger number, they are a part 221 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: of the GOP base, and Trump is legitimized them as 222 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: a part of the GOP base. And this, you know, 223 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: to circle back to what we were saying earlier about 224 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: him not announcing white supremacy, you know, like that's part 225 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,599 Speaker 1: of the way that Trump made these people feel like 226 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: they're part of the Republican coalition or the mega coalition 227 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: that he denounced them, so, you know, feeling that they have. 228 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: I think the sense that these people have that they 229 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: are powerful people that listen to them, and that these 230 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: powerful people are also telling them that elections don't work 231 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: is feeding into the violence. So we have to have 232 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: like a clear picture of the server the ecosystem of 233 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: violence that we're seeing. Yeah. No, I think it's really 234 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: such an interesting and strange time to be living in America. 235 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: I want to ask you one last question, which is 236 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: do you think American politics is getting better? Actually? I 237 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: mean I'm pretty hopeful right now, just because of not 238 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: just the mid terms, but also the runoff in Georgia. 239 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: You know, like, Okay, I mean, you know, it's a 240 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: class half full, half empty thing. You know, on the 241 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: one hand, you know Warnock one. On the other hand, 242 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: like crushal Walker, who in an ideal world should get 243 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: zero over some of the you ended up with. Like 244 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: you know that to have a candidate that's so clearly 245 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: unfit for Profice, whose own family you know, thinks he's 246 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: unfit for Professe get for you for the vote, I mean, 247 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: that's pretty scary. But I mean I do think that 248 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: there's there's evidence that, you know, the good guys are winning, 249 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: and also that the good guys are learning. I mean, 250 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: I think the Democrats are figuring out how to navigate 251 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: in this new environment and how to you know, win elections. 252 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: Not all of them. I mean in New York obviously 253 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party there that's a lot of trouble, and 254 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: and in Florida as well, but I mean in a 255 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: lot of places, the state Democratic parties are getting pretty 256 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 1: good at figure out what they need to do, and 257 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: they've gotten the message out about how dangerous Republicans are. 258 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: So I went out, like, you know, like you know, 259 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: we're getting near the holiday season, and I want to 260 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: leave people with a little bit of hope that yeah, 261 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's there's ways in which politics 262 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: is getting bigger better. I think that it's in terms of, like, 263 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, the big picture, it's gonna take a couple 264 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: of cycles. Like I think you have to keep losing 265 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: and losing and losing, and it's like you know, bashing 266 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: your head against the wall. If you do it once, okay, twice, Okay, 267 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: if you bash your head against the wall ten times, 268 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: maybe something will get through and they're like, hey, I 269 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: have to stop bashing my head against the wall. So 270 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: I actually think that like if maga Republicans, if you 271 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: know that Trump has hiloritarian right. If they lose let's 272 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: say four or five election cycles in a row, then 273 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: maybe you know, the hope there's will bash your head 274 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: against the wall so much that they realized we should 275 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: stop doing this. And that was actually going to be 276 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: my last question. Do you think that will ever happen? 277 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: Like they clearly people don't like it, right, Certainly swing 278 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: state voters don't like it. They don't like this craziness. 279 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: But it seems like Republicans don't care. Yeah, I mean, 280 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: it's portually a matter that you know, sort of geographical 281 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: sorting that, like there's enough places in red states that 282 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: are so red that like a Marjorie Taylor Green or 283 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: Paul Gostars can get re elected again and again. But 284 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: again I have to say, like over time it does 285 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: have an impact. Like and I go back, I think 286 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: the classic example is a broken party, you know, during 287 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: the age of the New Deal, where they had Herbert 288 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: Hoover and they had a lot of very right doing 289 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: people who from the start we're saying, like the New 290 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: Deal is communism and we have to get rid of 291 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: Social Security. And they lost, and they lost again and 292 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: again and again, and you have like basically five presidential 293 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: elections where they lost and then they realized, Okay, um, 294 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: let's try something different. Let's let's get like Dwight Eisenhower. 295 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: He's a popular general and he doesn't want to get 296 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: rid of Social Security, and he likes unions, and he 297 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: likes high taxes for the rich. And let's try him. 298 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: So I feel like if the Republicans, you think they're 299 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: going to decide that they want jab or something, Yeah, 300 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: if they lose like enough times, then one could imagine 301 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: a more yeah, reasonable Republican getting in there. So I 302 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: think that's the future one can maybe look forward to. 303 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: Like they just keep losing, and that's they keep losing, 304 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: and I mean it's it's the only way they learned, right, 305 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: Like it's it's sad people don't learn except through adversity, right. 306 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: I mean, in this case, it's actually not sad. It's 307 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: good because the candidates right showed the irony of what 308 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: you were saying. But yes, Jeet here, please come back. 309 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: You're always such a delight to have here talking to you. 310 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: Sheldon white House is the junior Senator from Rhode Island. 311 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: So welcome to Fast Politics. Senator white House, thank you, 312 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: great to be with you. We're so excited to have you, 313 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: and I wanted to talk to you about all senators 314 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: pretty cool, congratulations, I mean amazing stuff. It makes more 315 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: than a two percent difference. I'll tell you. Talk to 316 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: me about what, uh, what Democrats can do eight now 317 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: in this lame duck period. Well, it depends on what 318 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: the House will let us do, and it depends on 319 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: what Republicans will let us do. Because there's still the 320 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: sixty vote culture requirement UM in the Senate. I would 321 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: ordinarily say we should be crushing as many nominees through 322 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: as we possibly can UM, but because we held the Senate, 323 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: we actually have the ability to process nominees in the 324 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: next Congress with the same pace as this congress, and 325 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: with Rafael warnox win, actually at a slightly accelerated pace 326 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,959 Speaker 1: because we don't have to worry about discharge petitions. If 327 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: we can get Democrats voting for our own nominees, they 328 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: go straight to the floor and tee up for the 329 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: executive calendar. So I want to talk to you about 330 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: your Windfall Profit Tax Act that you're working on with 331 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: another favorite of this podcast, Representative Rocanna. Talk to us 332 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: about what this would do and what this is the 333 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: oil companies engage in international price manipulation through their cartel, 334 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: so they can jack up their prices pretty high. And 335 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: we saw in the wake of the Putin invasion of Ukraine, 336 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: oil prices get jacked up very high. And the result 337 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: of that, of course, is that oil company profits soared 338 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: and consumers got screwed at the pump. So what we 339 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: would do, because we'd go back to a reasonable baseline 340 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: of profit for these companies, and excess profit above that, 341 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: they'd have to cough up half of it. We'd caught 342 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: back and then distribute that to American consumers to spend, 343 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: you know, where they wish, at the grocery store, at 344 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: the gas pump, at their favorite restaurant, whatever. This seems 345 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: like a very new kind of bell. If it works, 346 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: it would sort of be the beginning of a kind 347 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: of taxation, you know, against corporate greed. It would be 348 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: a deterrent against corporate price gouging. And the Tory Party 349 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 1: over in England the Conservatives have actually passed something rather 350 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: like it. The difference, I think being in England the 351 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: oil companies don't have the same control over the Conservative 352 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: Party as they do over the Republican Party here. They're 353 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: actually genuine conservatives in the UK. And we have fossil 354 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: fuel functionaries here in the American Republican Party clearly fossil 355 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: fuel companies, but they're largely responsible for climate crisis. They 356 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: have a certain amount of the United States politicians sort 357 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: of under their thumbs. I mean, what could what could 358 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: stop this terrible situation. I think it will take public 359 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: pressure on Republican members. I suspect that if Chuck Schumer 360 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: brought this to a vote, we'd get pretty much all 361 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: of the Democratic senators. But that doesn't get you to sixty. 362 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: And so we need some Republicans to come over and 363 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: agree that at least when your price gouging, share the 364 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: wealth with consumers. It's actually a pretty moderate idea. We 365 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: don't even take all the excess profits, we let them 366 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: keep half. And even so, they've absolutely drawn a hard 367 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: line in the sand that we were not going to negotiate. 368 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: We're not going to talk. This is anathema to us 369 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: and we want no part of it. And of course 370 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: we then refused to deliver our Republican fossil fuel functionaries 371 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: with the inequalities the wealth inequalities in this country and 372 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: the kind of corporate mouthfeasance on the part of corporations. 373 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: We really do need the United States government to reign 374 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: in capitalism. I mean, do you think that that can 375 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: happen in our lifetime? I hope. So. I think that 376 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: the Biden administration is moving tentatively in that direction. Well, 377 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: after Representative con and I filed this bill, the White 378 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: House came around and said, actually, we sort liked this 379 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 1: idea of excess profits clawback, and the President started talking 380 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: about price gouging and a bill to clawback excess profits. 381 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: So I think they're moving in that direction. But I 382 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: think there's a lot more that can be done because 383 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: the power of these corporations has gotten completely out of control. 384 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: I think the target should be the dark money operation 385 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: rather than just corporate America. Generally, there are a lot 386 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: of very decent, principled corporations that provide very good service 387 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: to their customers, and then there's this pack of them 388 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: that run a dark money operation to tell the Republican 389 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: Party what to do and to use the US Chamber 390 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: of Commerce as their bludgeon to impose policies that the 391 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: public doesn't want. It's that crew. I think that you 392 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: can spotlight and put a lot of pressure on And 393 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: that's what I've been encouraging the administration to do and 394 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: what I've been doing myself. So let's talk for a 395 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: minute about money. I feel like it's impossible to talk 396 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: about dark money without talking about this very conservative Supreme Court. Yeah, 397 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: the court that dark money built. Yeah. Is there anything 398 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: that we can do? I mean, we have this embolden court. 399 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: They're listening to voting rights. I mean every session that 400 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: this court is, you know, is on the benches is 401 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: a bit scary. Yeah. And the stuff they get up 402 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 1: to is pretty grim. I mean everybody knows, for instance, 403 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: about the Dobbs decision, where they merrily took a constitutional 404 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: right away from half of the American population. But less 405 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: well known is that around the same time that they 406 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: were doing that, they were adding for the big donors 407 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: who got them onto the court, a constitutional right to 408 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: dark money. Can you talk a little more about that? 409 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: And they actually set that up in the Americans for 410 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: Prosperity Foundation case. It was a nasty little case. It 411 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: sat on the Supreme Court's docket waiting to be take 412 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: it up for a long time for years, and um, 413 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: they didn't Budge until they saw that they had Amy 414 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: Conny Barrett to give them a sixth vote, and they 415 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: didn't actually move on it until like two days after 416 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: the January six riot actually took it up on the eighth, 417 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: when the attention of the world was everywhere else but 418 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: what the Supreme Court was up to without a whole 419 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: lot of fuss, but with an enormous armada of right 420 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: wing front groups appearing in front of the court, they 421 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: actually created the court. The dark money built, in turn, 422 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: built a constitutional right to dark money. Is there anything 423 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: that we can do, We could raise a lot of Hell. 424 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: The other thing that we can do is past the 425 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: Disclosed Act so that we maximize our ability to disclose. 426 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: They're a little bit stuck between two things. The plaintiff 427 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: in the dark money constitutional right case was the corporate 428 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: twin of the Koch Brothers biggest political battleship, the Americans 429 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: for Prosperity organization, So that was there was a huge 430 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: political overlay on that. But at the same time they 431 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: also have the Citizens United decision, which acknowledges that dark 432 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: money is corrupting and leaves a lane for Congress to 433 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: required disclosure of dark money spent at least in elections. 434 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: So that's the frontier of these two battles. That you 435 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: can be the appendage of a political operation and protect 436 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: your dark money and then have a completely fake corporate 437 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: veil between the two, a veil you could pierce with 438 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: a banana, and then on the other side have a 439 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: corporate operation that spends money and at least what it 440 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: spends and ads would probably have to be disclosed if 441 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: we passed the law requiring it. Do you think it's 442 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: worth trying to get rid of the filibuster for these laws? 443 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: I would do that in a heartbeat. The only thing 444 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: I'd suggest is that we're actually not getting rid of 445 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: the filibuster. We're actually restoring the filibuster, which is everybody 446 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: gets a chance to talk themselves out, and at the 447 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: end of the day you vote to a simple majority. 448 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: That's what the filibuster was. Then we got is weird 449 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: culture rule. To shortcut it, without touching the culture rule, 450 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: you could actually make the Senate work again by changing 451 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: other rules having to do with quorum calls and things 452 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: like that. For instance, I have nothing against the Republicans 453 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 1: slowing us down when we want to make a big 454 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: change that they oppose for a month, but they need 455 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: to be on the floor making their arguments. They can't 456 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: just shut the sentate down and quorum calls and and 457 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: burn time without actually standing up for the whatever it 458 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: is that they're arguing for. And once they're done with 459 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: their arguments and they become dilatory, then the parliamentarian needs 460 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: to be able to say, Okay, everybody said their piece, 461 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: here we go, now we vote. It seems like the 462 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: American people in this midterm have given that they really 463 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: don't like all of this radical trumps um. Do you 464 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: think Republicans will hear this message or do you think 465 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: they're just going to do something? I mean, it doesn't 466 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: seem to me like there's a whole lot of soul 467 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: searching going on. Well, there are two threads. There's the 468 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: Maga thread with all of its sort of weird overlay 469 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: of racial issues and lack of good temperament and all 470 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: of that. And then there's the really really steady economic 471 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: power being deployed by huge special interests from behind the 472 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 1: screen of the dark money that they used in politics, 473 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: that they used to pack the court, that they used 474 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: to hide their role in front groups around the country, 475 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: and we had a lot of success pointing out the 476 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: mega threat, and I think Americans really saw that that 477 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: was just too much, That was just disgusting and and 478 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: not something independent voters swung our way in this election 479 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: and kind of unprecedented fashion for a midterm. So you know, 480 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,719 Speaker 1: that worked. But we have not done is put enough 481 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 1: attention on the bigger special interest influence operation that goes 482 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: out of its way to work quietly and to obscure 483 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: itself and to run like a covert opera ration. And 484 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: that's where I think we can make the American people 485 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: just as upset as they are with MAGA, only in 486 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: this case they were fooled for a lot longer time. Yeah, 487 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: that's the thing that you know. I mean, when you 488 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: think about John Roberts on the court with the Dobbs decision, 489 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: he didn't want Dobbs decided. He didn't want row overturned 490 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: because he believed that women should have choice. He wanted 491 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: it that way because he knew that these conservative justices 492 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: were giving up the game. Yeah, he wanted to move 493 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: more slowly and obscure the kind of rough handling by 494 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,719 Speaker 1: the far right that was accomplished through Judge Alido in 495 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: that decision. Yeah, we're talking about voter suppression in Georgia. 496 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: Normal voters, I think are more informed of the sort 497 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: of nefarious nous of a lot of the Maga Republican Party. Now, yeah, 498 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: and they they overlap a bit. I mean you mentioned 499 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: voter suppression. To go back to the capture of the 500 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, one of the organizations that did that, called 501 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: the Judicial Crisis Network. They got checks as big as 502 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: fifteen million dollars seventeen million dollars in individual donations without 503 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: revealing who the donor was, spent it on the ads 504 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 1: for the Supreme Court justices, and then they go running 505 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: in through associated groups to argue to the Court that 506 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: they spent money to put on the court without disclosing 507 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: any of that. And the voter suppression group, so called 508 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: Honest Elections Project, is the group that just appeared where 509 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,479 Speaker 1: the arguments happened for mor v. Harper today and in 510 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 1: the list of briefs is the Honest Elections Project, which 511 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: doesn't bother to disclose that it's the corporate sibling of 512 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: the Digital Crisis Network, which spent all this money on 513 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: ads for the judges. The secrecy and the smarminess of 514 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: it is just really very wrong. So for someone listening 515 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: to this right now, what would you tell them are 516 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: the things they can do themselves to help? I think 517 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: the number one thing is to make getting rid of 518 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: dark money and politics a huge, huge priority, not only 519 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: for the individual themselves, but also for groups that they 520 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: mean may be involved with. So, labor unions have a 521 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: huge stake in getting rid of dark money because the 522 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: dark money forces go out and try to crush labor 523 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: in for instance, the Janis decision. The civil rights movement 524 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: has a huge stake in protecting against dark money because 525 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: dark money funds voter suppression. They've admitted it. The environmental 526 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: movement has a huge stake in getting rid of dark 527 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: money because of West Virginia versus e p A and 528 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: the whole fake climate denial establishment that has been propped up. 529 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: And yet you can go through the interests that we 530 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: fight for, and over and over and over again you 531 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: find that the advocacy groups don't look beyond their immediate 532 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: substantive purpose to how do you break the back of 533 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: this group that is coming after us. How do you 534 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: expose to the American public that this is a scam. 535 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: How do you get after their operation. And that's what 536 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,719 Speaker 1: I think all of our democratic leaning advocacy groups need 537 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: to understand. They have a common cause in making sure 538 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: that the public gets what is going on with these 539 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: games that are being played in the dark. And if 540 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: we can do that, I think that builds a lot 541 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: of pressure. I mean, the public already hates this stuff. 542 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: You really can't beat the polling on it. There's nothing 543 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: we need to do to improve how much the public 544 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: hates dark money. We just need to hammer the issue 545 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: until the Republicans yell buncle and give so interesting Sheldon 546 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: white House, Um, we're just at a time, but I 547 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: want to ask you one last question, because you are 548 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: from this state that has been so affected by climate change, 549 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: are you seeing anything that is giving you hope? Tell 550 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: us something good about climate. Bad news is the Biden 551 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: administration hasn't really done much on climate. The good news 552 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,479 Speaker 1: is that gives them a lot left to do. And 553 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: now with the Republican controlled House, there's no point in 554 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: waiting around for legislation. They can move and accomplish a 555 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: lot of executive climate stuff that is out there ready 556 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: to be done. And they started in the methane regulation 557 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: by baking in a pertend social cost of carbon, which 558 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: is a really big deal and in time can be 559 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: propagated through other agencies and other government decision making, and 560 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: that I think will will markedly end up in significant 561 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: emission savings. And another big thing that they could do 562 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: is to align with the European Union on their carbon 563 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: border adjustment, which the EU is going forward with and 564 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,239 Speaker 1: rather than complain and you know, piss and moan about it, 565 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: line up, sign up, join up, and try to build 566 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: a multi economy platform of countries that will charge for 567 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: carbon unfriendly products when they cross borders that there's a 568 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: tariff there. And I think the Biden administration is taking 569 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: a new interest in looking at the carbon border adjustment 570 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: as a as a really positive thing for American business, 571 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: which it is. You put those two things together. You've 572 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: got a big social cost of carbon inside and throughout 573 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: the government, and you've got a carbon border adjustment on 574 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: our on our borders as a tariff, and suddenly things 575 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: start to look a lot better. Thank you so much. 576 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: That was good, good, helpful, hopeful message to end on. 577 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Senator white House. Great to be 578 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: with you, Molly. Thank you so much. Tim O'Brien is 579 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: the opinion editor at Bloomberg. Welcome Too Fast Politics, Tim 580 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: O'Brien Molly. I was excited to have you back on 581 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: because besides being uh, the editor of Bloomberg Opinion and 582 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: very smart writer, you are also the knower of all 583 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: things Trump related for a long long time. And I 584 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,479 Speaker 1: felt that we had to since we are on the 585 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: Yesterday the Trump organization got uh found guilty, and we're 586 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: in a It's been a bad couple days for Donald Trump. 587 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: And and and the second you know, Domino to fall 588 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: for him was herschel Walker losing the Senate race in Georgia, 589 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: a guy that Trump hand picked to carry trump is 590 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: um into the Senate. I think there's more to come 591 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: for the Trump organization that could go well beyond what 592 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: happened with the Manhattander's charges yesterday. It's significant. It's the 593 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: first time the Trump organ has been convicted of a 594 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: criminal fraud charge in a courtroom. It is not financially 595 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: going to debilitate them, you know, the financial penalty is 596 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: relatively modest, but reputationally it's an interesting verdict because Donald 597 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: Trump has spent you know, more than fifty of his 598 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: almost seventy seven years playing with toys that Fred Trump 599 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: built and gave to him, and he has basically flushed 600 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: a lot of that down the toilet through ineptitude and 601 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: selfish is and and the organization now has a criminal 602 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: fraud charge against it. It's a blight on a family 603 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: legacy that was never particularly first class or blue chick, 604 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: even in the Fred era, but it didn't have this 605 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: this taint hanging over over it. But I think I 606 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: think the State Attorney General's case, Letitia James's case, is 607 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: more existentially threatening to the business, and I think the 608 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: Moral Lago investigation for espionage violations and the what might 609 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: come out of the January six hearings are more personally 610 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: dangerous to Trump himself. So what do you think that 611 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: looks like? Well, I mean, you know, this all depends 612 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: on how steely prosecutors want to be. But you know, 613 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: the Moral Lago case, so we're talking about Trump first 614 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: and the Trump or Trump personally. The Moral Lago case 615 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: is a very strong case. It certainly seems like he 616 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: knowingly and willfully violated the law when he took classify 617 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: documents out of the White House, violations of the Espionage 618 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: Act and then he obstructed justice. It would appear he 619 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: and his team once the FBI began taking a closer look, 620 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: that seems to be an open and shut case. So 621 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: I don't know how he gets around that. One. The 622 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: January six cases we've talked about before, Molly is really 623 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: whether or not Garland at the d o J wants 624 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: to crack down, and all indications are he's on that track, 625 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: you know he is. He's appointed a special counsel. That 626 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: special council's a bulldog. That special council is going to 627 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: examine the evidence. On the business side, if the Attorney 628 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: General in New York finds Trump and his children and 629 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: the and the business guilty of the fraud civil fraud 630 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: charges she's brought, they can lose their license to do 631 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: business in New York permanently. Means that the Trump work 632 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: and related entities and Trump and his children can no 633 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: longer do business in the state of New York, which 634 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: is just a I think, an existential blow on the 635 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: business side. Does it seem to you like this whole 636 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: thaying is like Trump is is on his way out 637 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: or do you think we're just I mean, because remember 638 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen he was pulling at one percent. 639 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: So I mean, are we just in another cycle of 640 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: Trump being down and then up or do you think 641 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: this is really the end? Well, I think there's there's 642 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, different categories here on the political side of it. 643 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: I don't think you can count them out. You know, 644 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: he still has a I think a firm hold on 645 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: the hearts and minds of of the Republican electorate, and 646 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: that gives him enormous leverage in primary season and in 647 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: keeping a certain kind of philosophy and candidate in play 648 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 1: within the Republican Party, the pitchfork and torch carrying kind 649 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: of candidate and who's modeled in the image of Donald Trump, 650 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: which is a ignorant person who is a flamethrower. But 651 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: that's not a viable path to a national to national 652 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: victories because independence and moderates and moderate Republicans have all 653 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: decided that they don't like Trump or Trump is um 654 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: and that's been proven now in three national elections in 655 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: a row. So I don't think he's going to go 656 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: away on the political front at all, And I don't 657 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: think he really cares whether or not he can figure 658 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 1: out a way a pout their president presidency for himself. 659 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: He'll be happy just to blow the shop up and 660 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: blow the party up and stay in the in the 661 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: spotlight in the courts. He's got real threats like he's 662 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,720 Speaker 1: never experienced before. And people have often spoken about how 663 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: Donald Trump has always managed to get around the law 664 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 1: and always managed to have a ninth life, But the 665 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: reality is this is the first time in his life 666 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 1: where there's been intense, purposeful law enforcement investigations with him 667 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: in the crosshairs. I mean, you've been dealing with this 668 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 1: trumpy will he get away with the question since the eighties? 669 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: I mean, does he always get away with it? But 670 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: what are we saying that when we say get away 671 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:54,879 Speaker 1: with it? Right? Like in the eighties, he got away 672 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: with being a b S artist, and he got away 673 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: with stretching the boundaries of his own prowess and lying 674 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: about his business achievements and crafting this halo around himself 675 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: as a can do entrepreneur when in fact he was 676 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: an epic con man, grifter and screw up artists and 677 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: bankruptcy artists for that matter. And he parlayed that into 678 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: The Apprentice, which was also pure kabuki, but that didn't 679 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: involve at the time committing or being investigated for let 680 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: me rephrase that, it didn't involve being an investigated for 681 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: major frauds that could land you in an orange jumpsuit. 682 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: You know, that wasn't part of his life then, So 683 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,439 Speaker 1: this is really new. What he's gotten away with most 684 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: of his life is conning people into believing he's was 685 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: something he isn't, which is a super talented businessman and 686 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: a brilliant politician and someone who's out to represent the 687 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: little guy and the little gal. That's just not who 688 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: he is. And he has gotten away with that for 689 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: a long time. I think we're in a different place 690 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: right now. Do you think this is the beginning of 691 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: the end? I think it could be. It could be. 692 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think the issue is what 693 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 1: law enforcement decides to do with what's on its plate. 694 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: Do they really push this through? Do they seek putting 695 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: him in jail? If Donald Trump goes to jail, that's 696 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: certainly the end of a lot of things, including his freedom. 697 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 1: If he gets charged with federal fraud charges and conspiracy 698 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 1: to overthrow the government, etcetera, etcetera. That will be embarrassing 699 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: to most people. Are concerning most people, but baby Hughie 700 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: doesn't get embarrassed. Baby Hue just shakes his rattle more loudly. 701 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: Speaking of narcissistic billionaires, there's another narcissistic billionaire here. He 702 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: wrote about who is really enjoying a trumping news cycle, 703 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: and that narcissistic billionaire is Elon Musk. I tried to 704 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: grapple with this at a piece I wrote yesterday. It 705 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: does seem to me that we in the media are 706 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: sort of primed for these news cycles of these crazy 707 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: narcissists taking as hostage. Well, we're also I think what 708 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: Trump has done is he's made it okay for powerful, 709 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: wealthy white men to peacock and strut their stuff and 710 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,919 Speaker 1: be as an inane or as destructive or as self 711 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 1: absorbed as they want to be without worrying about consequence. 712 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 1: And I think that Trump opened the door to that politically, 713 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: and he's certainly opened the door to it in the 714 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: business community. Would Elon Musk have rolled this way prior 715 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: to I'm not sure he would have. I think there's 716 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: a lot in Musk himself that is about narcissism and 717 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,760 Speaker 1: unhinged behavior that's independent of Trump. But I think Trump 718 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: has also taught people how to basically rule like you're 719 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,879 Speaker 1: in the fountain Head. And we also are in an 720 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: era in which you can win over people and reached 721 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: to people and run a media organization without having an 722 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: old own and old fashioned newspaper, TV station, or radio station. 723 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 1: You could do it on the web. And the web 724 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: has allowed a lot of different powerful people to go 725 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,880 Speaker 1: directly to people without the media interceding. And I think 726 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,240 Speaker 1: there's some upsides to that. The media is not always 727 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: the best gatekeeper, but the downsides are we I do 728 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,400 Speaker 1: think we want some screens for value in our society 729 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,240 Speaker 1: and some gatekeeping, and that's not happening in a meaningful 730 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: way on social Well. It's interesting because I mean it 731 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: does seem like to me that Elan's plan is that 732 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,839 Speaker 1: he's going to you know, he's going to create new 733 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: media that he likes better. That's very wice and mad. Well. 734 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: He can do that for as long as he has 735 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: the funny money to be able to do that, because 736 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,280 Speaker 1: his wealth is predicated on two primary things, the public 737 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,320 Speaker 1: value of Tesla's stock and the private value of SpaceX. 738 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: Those are the two things that fund his shenanigans. And 739 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 1: Tesla's doc has been massively battered over the last year. 740 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: He can't keep pulling from that piggy bank indefinitely. He 741 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 1: bought Twitter for forty four billion dollars, thirteen billion of 742 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 1: it is borrowed from banks. They're not happy that they're 743 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: stuck with Elon's lame m and a deal. And he 744 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: does have to make a profit over time or he's 745 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: not gonna be able to continue to play these kind 746 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: of games. Now. Tesla could continue to be a home 747 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: run and SpaceX has been a, you know, a very 748 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: notable achievement for him, but it's privately held. For him 749 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: to pull money out of that, he'd have to sell 750 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: the stake to the out to an outsider. I don't 751 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: know that he'd want to do that. He does not 752 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: have limitless funds forever to be able to blow tens 753 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: of billions of dollars on a media investment that he 754 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: does not know how to run properly. He's not a 755 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: media manager. He has taken a sledgehammer to the business 756 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:56,240 Speaker 1: foundations of Twitter, apart from the kind of crazy sensationalism 757 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: and racism and anti semitism that's been allowed to flow 758 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 1: back onto the platform. And that's not a viable strategy 759 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 1: for long term success with that business. The one aspect 760 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 1: of Trump is um that el Hahn seems to have 761 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: picked up is this like, we're going to destroy the media. 762 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,719 Speaker 1: We're going to create citizen journalists who will then I mean, 763 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,759 Speaker 1: I say, this is someone who has benefited a lot 764 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: from social media, Well, you're a You're a representation of 765 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,400 Speaker 1: the upside of it. Right. It's like you got discovered 766 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 1: and empowered through social and it's enabled more individuals to 767 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 1: get that kind of visibility with which I think is awesome. 768 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,720 Speaker 1: That's that's the upside. The downside is at their core, 769 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Elon Musk are juvenile delinquents, and they 770 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: are bros who are living in digital frat houses, and 771 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,320 Speaker 1: they are just reveling in b a in being able 772 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: to sit around and make fart jokes or do chugging contests, 773 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: or so you can jump off to the off the 774 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: roof onto the front lawn without breaking their legs. And 775 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,520 Speaker 1: they have no real interest in the betterment of a 776 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: broad swath of Americans, even though they both claim that 777 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: they are. We're going to see this Senate session is 778 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,759 Speaker 1: going to look at tech regulation again. We have a 779 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 1: Republican House, a Democratic Senate, So who knows what that 780 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: looks like, but there certainly is, especially after Crypto, the 781 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: implosion of ft X, there is certainly a feeling that 782 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 1: there's certainly a desire for regulation. I mean, do you 783 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: think that comes and do you think that will have 784 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: an effect on any of this? Well, I do think 785 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 1: this is a place where there might be a bipartisan 786 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: union on regulating tech for entirely different reasons. I think 787 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:49,600 Speaker 1: the GOP doesn't care about bigness and companies being so 788 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,640 Speaker 1: large that they're unrestrained and too powerful. I think they 789 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,880 Speaker 1: care about tech because they see the tech companies as 790 00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 1: stewards of platforms that have a bias against conservatives, so 791 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,920 Speaker 1: they'll be up for like jumping into regulation on that 792 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,800 Speaker 1: side of it. And I think the Dems are concerned 793 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:11,319 Speaker 1: about classic anti trust fears of monopoly power and unfettered might. 794 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 1: But those are different in triests that could wind up 795 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: in a place where there's a compromise bill that both 796 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,200 Speaker 1: sides get a little bit of what they want. So 797 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,279 Speaker 1: that is a threat to the tech industry. It's a 798 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 1: threat to Elon must get, Twitter and Facebook, Google, Amazon, 799 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: They're all threatened by this, and Europe has been very 800 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 1: aggressive on this front. Europe is already talking about whether 801 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: or not they're going to permit Twitter to continue to 802 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,600 Speaker 1: operate over there because what they see is standard violation. Yes, 803 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,920 Speaker 1: so interesting. Thank you so much, Tim O'Brien, Thank you, Molly. 804 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 1: It's always a treat, Molly john Fast, Jesse Cannon. It's 805 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green's party, and she's setting the agenda already. 806 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: She's very obsessed with the idea of impeaching Biden because 807 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,239 Speaker 1: Trump was impeached and she wants to get back at 808 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: Biden somehow for trumping impeached. I think ultimately she feels 809 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: that that's only fair. Marjorie Taylor Green wants to impeach 810 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,560 Speaker 1: Joe Biden for bringing Brittany Grinder home because she's stupid 811 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,359 Speaker 1: and also probably racist. I am just waiting for when 812 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,120 Speaker 1: somebody decides this is a great placement theory because they 813 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,360 Speaker 1: sent a white man back to Russia and brought a 814 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: black woman home. Another reason to impeach Biden, says Marjorie 815 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 1: Taylor Green. The president of the United States treated a 816 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,879 Speaker 1: Russian terrorist arms dealer. By the way, they're like on 817 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 1: the side of Russian terrorists, so you'd think they'd be 818 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,600 Speaker 1: happy Victor Boot left a US marine in Russian jail 819 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 1: and bought home a professional basketball player. How many people 820 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,239 Speaker 1: will Victor Boot kill now? Because Biden said him she 821 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,719 Speaker 1: got the talking points this morning, and she's going to 822 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 1: keep going with them. But let me just say, maybe 823 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,800 Speaker 1: she's just going to be our moment of fuer everything 824 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,759 Speaker 1: does We'll be our moment of AWA from now on. Well, 825 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,920 Speaker 1: she is the leader of the party. She is the 826 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,719 Speaker 1: leader of the House Republican Party. That's it for this 827 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and 828 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,600 Speaker 1: Friday to your the best minds in politics makes sense 829 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, 830 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,960 Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 831 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.