1 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide? 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: Hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. 3 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories. 4 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. 5 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: These real life journeys inspire, connect and remind you that 6 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower 7 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness 8 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: on wavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health. 9 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the world, 10 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantur. Welcome 11 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. 12 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: This is our special event crafting justice, empowering autism and 13 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: mental health through legislation. Joining us today is Senator Manca Dingra, 14 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: a true advocate for mental health reform. As a Washington 15 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: State Senator and passionate champion for mental health access and equity, 16 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: she has been at the forefront of groundbreaking policies that 17 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: prioritize well being for all, from tackling stigma and pushing 18 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: for systemic change. She's here to share her insights, experiences, 19 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 1: and vision for a healthier future. Thanks for joining us today. 20 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 2: Absolutely my pleasure. 21 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 3: I'm always happy to talk about anything to do with 22 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 3: mental health and accessing health care services in Washington. 23 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so good. We all have to put our 24 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: heads together to help as many as we can. What 25 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: led you on this journey to help those with mental illness? 26 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 3: You know, I have been a senior deputy prosecuting attorney 27 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 3: with King County for twenty years, and you know, when 28 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 3: you start off at the prosperous office, you kind of 29 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 3: do your rotation between District Court and Jubie Court, and 30 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 3: I did a lot of work on genda base violence 31 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 3: and hate crimes. And at that time, I actually became 32 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 3: a supervisor and there was this new thing that was 33 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 3: starting up in the United States of America called mental 34 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 3: health court. So the first one was created in Florida 35 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 3: and in King County we were the second ones to 36 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 3: start a mental health court. And the way it worked 37 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 3: in King County at that time is when you became 38 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: a supervisor, you kind of went and handled this calendar 39 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 3: once a week, and that was my first exposure to 40 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 3: really like a therapeutic court, and I remember going there 41 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 3: and kind of being like, what is this thing? And 42 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 3: the more I learned about it, the more horrified I 43 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 3: was to learn that the largest mental health hospitals in 44 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 3: this country and in the state of Washington are basically 45 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 3: at jails and prisons. And you know, there's something fundamentally 46 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,399 Speaker 3: wrong with the society if our jails and prisons are 47 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 3: our number one mental health institutions. And so I really 48 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 3: started getting involved then on taking a look at individuals 49 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 3: with the diagnoses who are in the criminal justice system. 50 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: And so that is how I got started in this work, 51 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 3: And for the last twenty five years, I've done a 52 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: lot of work around forensic mental health, helping develop the 53 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 3: crisis intervention training for law enforcement, and then really trying 54 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 3: to work upstream in preventative and early intervention early detection issues. 55 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: What are some of the roadblocks that you've hit along 56 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: the way. Anytime that you get into legislation with a 57 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: bill you want to pass, you have good intentions, you 58 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: have good things in it. Then you have other people 59 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: that want to put their things in it. Then you 60 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: have to use that magic word compromise in order to 61 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: get some things done. So have you had to deal 62 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: with any of those hurdles in order to get any 63 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: legislation passed? 64 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 3: You know, I'll just say I have been very fortunate 65 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 3: that since I came into the legislature, my colleagues have 66 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 3: really given me that respect and given me a lot 67 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 3: of deference because I've recognized the expertise I bring to 68 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 3: this role. So I will say I haven't had too 69 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 3: much problems in the actual crafting of bills. 70 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: The biggest problems come out in the implementation that makes sense. 71 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: You know, you can. 72 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 3: Write whatever you want in a bill, but if there 73 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 3: is no appropriate funding, it just becomes a big novel, 74 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 3: a good novel to read. And so I'll tell you 75 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 3: the biggest barrier is appropriate funding. We simply do not 76 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 3: fund services at the level that is needed. And so 77 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: making that shift and really telling people that you have 78 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 3: to have money and you have to be able to 79 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 3: compensate people for things like sitting on a park bench 80 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,679 Speaker 3: and giving someone a sandwich and a cup of coffee 81 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 3: and engaging with them, and that is part of treatment. 82 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 3: It is part of that engagement. And so that mindset 83 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 3: on what the state's responsibility is to pay is one 84 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: of the biggest road blocks, and the second roadblock I'll 85 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 3: tell you is people's definition of individual liberty. 86 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 2: Right. We see this over and over. 87 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 3: Again where when it comes to mental health, there is 88 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 3: this tension on how much you can do to take 89 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 3: care of individuals. And so the analogy I always tell 90 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 3: my colleagues is like, you know, what do we do 91 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 3: if we see someone having a heart attack on the side. 92 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: Of the road. 93 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 3: We call nine one one, an ambulance comes, they stabilize 94 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 3: the person, and then they talk about after care and said, 95 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 3: when we see actively psychotic individuals. 96 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,679 Speaker 2: What do we do? We continue walking? 97 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 3: And so until this parody and how we treat brain 98 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 3: disease versus physical health, I think we're always going to 99 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 3: be running into barriers on what the appropriate treatment or 100 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 3: access to treatment looks like. 101 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: Makes total sense. Do you have an AOT law in 102 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: your state? 103 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: Yes, I worked on that a few years ago, and 104 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 3: I got to tell you it's not being implemented all 105 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: across the state. We have a few counties that are 106 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: doing it and simply not enough. So this is something 107 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: I keep going back to a healthcare authority to say, 108 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: why is it not being implemented? And the number one 109 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 3: reason I get is that the amount that we're paying 110 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 3: to run the program is not enough for the people 111 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 3: to do the contract because when you have court involvement, 112 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: there's a lot more work that doesn't get compensated. 113 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: So we're continuing to work on it. But our AOT program. 114 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 3: When the bill was written, it was written taking into 115 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 3: account some of the best evidence based practices in the country. 116 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 3: It came down to implementation and was simply not able 117 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 3: to implement it effectively. 118 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: It seems the big elephant in the room is the 119 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: word implementation. So with that said, how do we get 120 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: across that bridge. How do you create legislation then once 121 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 1: you've put all the work into it, it gets passed. 122 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: What's the next step that is needed so that once 123 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: it passed, you can start implementing it and it's going 124 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: to help people. 125 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 3: Thank you, You know, that is such a great question. 126 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 3: And I actually have a perfect example for you. Representative 127 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 3: or Walt now Senator or Walt and I worked on 128 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 3: a nine to eight bill for the state of Washington 129 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 3: when this number became available across the nation. We crafted 130 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 3: a bill that actually now is the standard for bills 131 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 3: across the country, and we really took that opportunity to 132 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: tell everyone who is working in the entire spectrum of 133 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 3: care to say, you know what, if your loved one 134 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 3: was in trouble, what would you wish for them? And 135 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 3: let's craft a bill based on what you would want 136 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: your loved one to have access to. And so we 137 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 3: created this bill which was extremely robust, and then it 138 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 3: came down to implementation, because I fundamentally believe if you 139 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: don't follow through with implementation, it can't work. 140 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: Everything you just said makes total sense. So with that said, 141 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: what was the next step to help push things along 142 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: so that they could be implemented. 143 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 3: So we created a very interesting multi level committee. The 144 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 3: big large committee is called Chris Committee Crisis Response. You know, 145 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 3: I'll have to find the exact words for you, but 146 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 3: it is made up of caakeholders from the entire continuum 147 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 3: of hair, including family members and peers, impacted individuals. We 148 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: have rural representation, urban representation, Immigrant representation, LGBTQI representation, and 149 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 3: that group meets monthly. We then have subcommittees that is 150 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 3: made up of people of that group as well as 151 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: others who have expertise. So we had a technology subcommittee, 152 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 3: We had an LGBTQI subcommittee. We had a youth subcommittee, 153 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 3: we had a farmer subcommittee, and so you know, any 154 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 3: issue that we were working on, we created that subcommittee 155 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 3: that would then finnel its work to the Chris Committee. 156 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 3: And then on top of that was an executive committee 157 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: that was made up of a very small number of 158 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 3: people basically the legislators and some of the Governor's office 159 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 3: that would take all the recommendations that came out of 160 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 3: the subcommittees and the Chris and be finally responsible for implementation. 161 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 3: We did that work for three years and that is 162 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 3: what made the biggest difference in implementation. 163 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: That sounds really good. Can you give an example of 164 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: how this helped implementation. 165 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 2: In real time? 166 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 3: We were able to get feedback from the people and 167 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 3: the family members who are using this resource, to the 168 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 3: agencies and the legislature and the governor's office on what 169 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 3: was working well, what wasn't working well, and then making 170 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 3: sure we had those recommendations that we were implementing and 171 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 3: then that follow up. So I think that three year 172 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 3: window was critical in making sure we had a very 173 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 3: intensive group of individuals who were responsible for the implementation. 174 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 2: And that's not easy to do. It takes resources. 175 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 3: It takes people utilizing their time to do this work. 176 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 3: But I have seen this model work really well when 177 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 3: it comes to implementation, and I really wish we had 178 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 3: done that for assisted out patient treatment. 179 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: Now you can have a boatload of money, you can 180 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: then throw the money at it and still get nothing. 181 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: Then you can have some instances where these organizations get 182 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: just a little bit of money, they use it efficiently 183 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: and it goes a long ways to helping those that 184 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: need it. So do you have an oversight committee that 185 00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: watches this? Because ultimately, when you create legislation, you have 186 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: to have money to back it up, and of course 187 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: everyone is always worried about where are we going to 188 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,599 Speaker 1: get that money? And then how are we going to 189 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: budget this? So how do you handle that scenario? 190 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 2: You know, I'll tell you a. 191 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 3: Lot of metrics that the state uses in terms of 192 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: making sure the money is being used efficiently. One of 193 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: the other big hurdles we deal with is actually workforce. 194 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 3: So you know, I am very fond of these intensive 195 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 3: treatment teams, like the PACT model. They used to be 196 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 3: a forensic component of it called fact the sort of 197 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 3: community treatment models where they go in and provide services 198 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 3: in order to do that efficiently and effectively, you have 199 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 3: to have a team that is consistent of everyone that 200 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 3: is needed to provide that level of care, which means 201 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 3: you need a prescriber, right, you deed a substances disorder, 202 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 3: a professional, you're a mental health court professional. You want 203 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 3: to appear on there, you want a case manager on it. 204 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 3: And so anytime you provide this kind of funding for 205 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 3: these groups, they can only be efficient if they're able 206 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 3: to hire the expertise on that team and keep that 207 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 3: team stable. And one of the other things we have found, 208 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 3: especially during COVID and afterward, is a lack of workforce 209 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 3: and so we have to get really creative on trying 210 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 3: to create new credentialing, really create a pathway for more 211 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 3: peers to get in this work. But that is what 212 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 3: some of the problems we have in you know, even 213 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 3: if you provide so I'll tell you the best mental 214 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: health budget we had was twenty twenty. We passed our 215 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 3: budget and you know, I was like, this is my 216 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 3: dream budget for mental health services. 217 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 2: And COVID hit. 218 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: Yes, COVID hurt so many things around the world. 219 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 2: Was sure, all. 220 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 3: That great money that we had made available our agencies 221 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 3: were saying they can't utilize because they did not have 222 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 3: the workforce to do that work, and people were so 223 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 3: exhausted that they couldn't justify adding yet one more program, 224 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 3: even though they knew that program would be helpful. So 225 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 3: there's a lot of things that have to come together 226 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 3: in order to make the system work right. It's not 227 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 3: just the money. It's the money, the implementation, the workforce, 228 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 3: and making sure you have the right resources for the 229 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 3: right to population. 230 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: Yes, that makes total sense. Now. I spoke with a 231 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: state legislator here a few weeks ago, and I'm wondering 232 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: if you have the same issues as they do. They 233 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: have a difficult time getting psychologists, psychiatrists, doctors, etc. To 234 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: stay on so they're trying to implement funding so they 235 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: can help these people get through college. And once they graduate, 236 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: then they give so many years to the state for 237 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: the funding that they put up to help them. Do 238 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: you have the same issue as some of these other states? 239 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 3: Do you know we don't have an issue in keeping 240 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 3: people here. We are fortunate that Washington is a desirable 241 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 3: state for people to come to, but you also have 242 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 3: to make sure that you're attracting that original student population 243 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: to come into the state because we know that once 244 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 3: they graduate with a degree, they're more lucky to say, 245 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 3: stay in the area where they did their education. And 246 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 3: so we had done a big investment in the University 247 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 3: of Washington to create a teaching hospital and this is 248 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 3: supposed to be really the pioneer gold standard for what 249 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 3: a teaching hospital would look like. And you know, it's 250 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 3: up and running, and that is what we're hoping will 251 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 3: attract a lot of the talent and once they're here, 252 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 3: the hope is that they'll stay. And that's where we 253 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 3: have found that people do tend to stay once they 254 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 3: get here. 255 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: The issue really. 256 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 3: Is where are they staying. They're staying in big cosmopolitan areas, 257 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 3: you know, like King County where Seattle is what the 258 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 3: east Side is, but we're not getting people to go 259 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 3: to the rural parts of the state. And so you know, 260 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 3: we've done this public partnership where we are trying to 261 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 3: see whether we can get some scholarship dollars or loan 262 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 3: reimbursement programs if they go to rural areas. But that 263 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 3: is a problem in attracting that kind of talent to 264 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 3: go to areas where they don't want to live. So 265 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 3: We've done a lot around telehealth as well, in making 266 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 3: sure that in areas where they might not have a 267 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 3: psychiatrist or they don't have that expertise, that we have 268 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 3: a line. We actually have one for children with mental 269 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 3: health issues called pad Line, where any of the providers 270 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 3: in the state can actually call and get consultations, especially 271 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 3: on psychiatric issues for children. And so you know, telehealth 272 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 3: is a huge component of it. We actually have jails 273 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 3: in rural areas that will use it if they end 274 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 3: up having someone in. 275 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: Detention with mental health issues. 276 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 3: So we have to get creative in terms of who 277 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 3: doesn't have access to the services. But what we are 278 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 3: finding is if you have good educational institutions, people are 279 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 3: coming to get that education and then are staying on. 280 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: I think that says a lot about your state and 281 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: what you're doing as far as higher education, and then 282 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: of course keeping people there to work and help those 283 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: in need. Now, earlier on, you mentioned about prisons being 284 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: the number one in healthcare and of course hospitalization in 285 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: the country, and of course you're one hundred percent correct. 286 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: I recently spoke with a sheriff in Cape Cod in 287 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: her county. The sheriff takes care of the prison system. 288 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: They don't patrol and only go out on forensic issues 289 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: with crime scenes. It appears that it's a groundbreaking scenario 290 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: with the sheriff and the deputies watch over the inmates 291 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: by making sure that while they're there they are helped, educated, treated, 292 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: so when they are released, there's a very high percentage 293 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: that never come back. From what I understand, it's much 294 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: like the judge down in Florida that created a facility 295 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: that was much the same. They treated them, gave them shelter, 296 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: and by diverting them to this facility again, they never 297 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: showed back up in front of the judge. Does your 298 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: state have anything like this at all? 299 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I mentioned me with a second mental health 300 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 3: court to get started in King County. I then actually, 301 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,239 Speaker 3: as a prosecutor, created the first in the nation therapeutic 302 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 3: Alternative unit at the Prosecutor's office. So we actually have 303 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 3: programs all the way away from initial contact with law 304 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 3: enforcement where they can divert them to resources so they 305 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 3: don't even have to get booked into jails, and we 306 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 3: have crisis centers. Instead of taking them into a hospital 307 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 3: or to a jail, you can actually go and drop 308 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 3: them off there's a twenty three hour crisis centers and 309 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 3: individuals can be dropped off, so you know, it's taking 310 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 3: a look at the entire time when someone comes into 311 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 3: contact with law enforcement, and this is when nine eight 312 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 3: eight plugs in as well. We actually do co location 313 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 3: for nine eight and nine one one because so many 314 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 3: people call nine one one and there are times when 315 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 3: that nine one one call actually should be a nine 316 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 3: eighty eight call. So with the co location, they're able 317 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 3: to easily transfer calls amongst themselves, so that even that 318 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 3: initial response is not law enforcement, it is a behavior 319 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: health response. And then when it comes to our jails, 320 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 3: we actually have a very robust program of identifying individuals 321 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 3: in our jails who do have a mental health diagnosis, 322 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 3: making sure that they. 323 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 2: Are able to stay on their meds, and then we. 324 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 3: Have re entry programs where we ensure that people upon 325 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 3: release are released with thirty days worth of meds, that 326 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 3: they are released to services and support, and there's follow up. 327 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 3: A lot of the programming that we pay for on 328 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 3: the re entry side is actually done with Medicaid, and 329 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 3: so with the cuts of the federal government, we're actually 330 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 3: really greatly concerned about what that might look like for 331 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 3: our re entry programs that we have through our jails 332 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 3: and even through our prisons. 333 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: What about the person that gets caught up in the 334 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: legal system unfortunately winds up incarcerated. Then if they have 335 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: mental illness that has not been diagnosed, they can wind 336 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: up in solitary, which is the worst thing that could happen. 337 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: Does your state have something set in place to where 338 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 1: they can get help right away if they need it. 339 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: I've heard of some states where they have gone up 340 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: to a year without getting any type of medical help, 341 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: and that just seems like it's way too long. 342 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 3: That is absolutely too long. And I think this is 343 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 3: where I will tell you Unfortunately location matters, and so 344 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 3: in our more populated counties, we actually have a psychiatrist 345 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 3: that's associated with the jails, so they do have a 346 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 3: mental health team that will be assessing individuals. And in 347 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 3: our rural areas, obviously they don't have the resources to 348 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 3: have a mental health professional or a psychiatrist on staff. 349 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 3: They may have nurses or peers and other stuff. And 350 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 3: this is where we also do the telehealth so that 351 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 3: they can actually consult with the psychiatrists and get individuals 352 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 3: the care that they need. But Unfortunately, it is also 353 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 3: very dependent on which county you get arrested in and 354 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 3: what the resources are in each of those counties. But 355 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 3: more populated counties do have access to mental health services 356 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 3: and psychiatrists. 357 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: So telehealth is good. Unfortunately, it's not the optimum. How 358 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: do we get to the point of where it doesn't 359 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: matter what county that you're in. You're not the only 360 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: one I've heard that from. I've heard other people in 361 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: other states say that they were told, Oh, it's too 362 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: bad that you didn't live in this county. Have happened 363 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: this way and you wouldn't have had this problem. So 364 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: how do we get to that point to where it 365 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: doesn't matter where you're from. If the person needs help, 366 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: they just get the help, you know. 367 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 3: And that is the vision that we have for the 368 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 3: state of Washington. And you know, I always talk about 369 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 3: that what we want to get in the State of 370 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 3: Washington is that no matter where you live, you get 371 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 3: access to the same level of care all the way 372 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 3: from the top of your head down to your toes. 373 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 3: While that is the vision, as you mentioned, making that 374 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 3: a reality is very challenging. And this is where, you know, 375 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 3: everything that we talked about in terms of money, workforce 376 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 3: implementation all comes into play. We simply don't even have 377 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 3: enough individuals who want to work in our jails with 378 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 3: this current population, because it's so much easier for them 379 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 3: to actually be in private practice, where we have individuals 380 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 3: who actually don't even take insurance but they pay cash 381 00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 3: for their services. 382 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 2: And you know, for a lot of individuals. 383 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 3: It's just so much easier for them if they're dealing 384 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 3: with youth that have depression and anxiety instead of really 385 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 3: dealing with individuals that have active psychosis or schizophrenia. And 386 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 3: so that is something that's really challenging to do, is 387 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 3: to incentivize individuals to do this work. And what I've 388 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 3: found over and over again, especially as a prosecutor who 389 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 3: is working on these issues, you get these really great 390 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 3: young graduates who want to do this work because they're 391 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 3: so passionate about it, and they burn out after three 392 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 3: to five years because they've realized that that peers are 393 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 3: making money, they're able to afford to buy a house, 394 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 3: to buy a car, and these individuals are working with 395 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 3: some of the toughest clients in very tough situations and 396 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 3: are simply not able to have the same quality of life, 397 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 3: So attracting talent and retaining that talent in the forensic 398 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 3: world is really hard because it's so much easier and 399 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 3: better frankly financially to do this work in the non 400 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,959 Speaker 3: forensic sector. So you know, it comes back down to money, 401 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 3: but it also comes down into work conditions and making 402 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 3: sure they aren't burnt out because the stories that they 403 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 3: hear and the people that they encounter. It is very 404 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 3: emotionally dreaming as well, So there's a combination of self 405 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 3: care that we have to do for the providers themselves 406 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 3: in order to get them to continue to do this work. 407 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: Yes, you have some very valid points there. It always 408 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: amazes me how one part of the country might have 409 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: something that's really really successful, and then you look around 410 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: the country to find out if there's any others, and 411 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: there aren't any to be found. One example is there's 412 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: a judge in Las Vegas. This wasn't planned, but after 413 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: everything evolved, it wound up being a court system that 414 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: diverted teenagers that were autistic out of the system so 415 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: that they could learn and grow and hopefully not ever 416 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: return to the system. This became hugely successful, and from 417 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 1: what I understand, there's not another one like it in 418 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: the country. Another example on the mental illness side is 419 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: a judge in Florida started diverting people to a facility 420 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: he found by diverting them getting them the help they needed, 421 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: he wouldn't see them in front of him in his court. Again, 422 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: I'm amazed that this type of process has not expanded 423 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: across the US and other states and counties are doing 424 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: the same. 425 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I'm surprised to hear that if there 426 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 3: is an effective program, that there's only one in the country. 427 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 2: You know. 428 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 3: I started off talking about how mental health courts started, 429 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 3: and I remember I have done trainings all across the 430 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 3: country on starting therapeutic courts. I actually was an advisor 431 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 3: to many of the courts that started up in California 432 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 3: and across this country, and so states normally try to 433 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 3: learn from each other, and I think this is important 434 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 3: that if you do have a successful program, that you 435 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 3: are showing up at conferences and talking about your work 436 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 3: and collecting that data and showing that evidence to get 437 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 3: it done. We went from having two mental health courts 438 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 3: in the country to mental health courts being you know, 439 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 3: in so many states, in so many different areas. Same 440 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 3: thing with in a community courts. I remember first time 441 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 3: hearing about that concept, and now they're all over the country, 442 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 3: and so normally states learn from each other and they 443 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 3: adopt each other's best practices. I mean, that's what we're 444 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 3: seeing with ninety eight. I mentioned the twenty three hour 445 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 3: crisis centers. You know, we got that idea from Arizona 446 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 3: and we had gone there toward their facilities and learned 447 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 3: what works, what doesn't, and implemented that. So I think 448 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 3: there's a responsibility for the people who are running these 449 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 3: programs to make sure that they are talking about their successes, 450 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 3: because everyone wants programs at work, and so if you 451 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 3: are in a position to go to judicial conferences or 452 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 3: therapy courts conferences or mental health conferences, and this is 453 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 3: where like the NAMIS, the National Alliance on Mental Illness 454 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 3: or SAMSA, all of those organizations are really effective in 455 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 3: making sure that message gets across. But we have to 456 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 3: learn from each other. We don't have to reinvent the 457 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 3: wheel every single time. 458 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, what do you think is important for our 459 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: listeners to hear that you are trying to do within 460 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: your state and that you're trying to do for everyone 461 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: that needs the help across the country. 462 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 3: And I think one of the best ways we get 463 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 3: legislation done is when the people who are doing the work, 464 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 3: who are having the problems, are the ones reaching out 465 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 3: to the legislators and proposing those solutions. Because the people 466 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,959 Speaker 3: doing the work actually know where the pitfalls are and 467 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 3: they also have ideas on how to fix it. So 468 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 3: you know, our democracy is not a spectator sport. It 469 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 3: takes each and every one of us to work on 470 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 3: making sure that we're improving the lives of each and 471 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 3: every one of us. And so if people have good ideas, 472 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 3: if they know of a problem and they know of 473 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 3: a solution, I would highly recommend they reach out to 474 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 3: the electeds, they reach out to organizations and talk about it. 475 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 3: And I'll tell you some of the best legislation we 476 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 3: have comes from community who tells us what the problem 477 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 3: and tells us also what they think the solution should be. 478 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,719 Speaker 1: Yes, that's great information. Like they say, an email, a letter, 479 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: a phone call will not be returned unless you take 480 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: the time to make it. Well, this has been great, 481 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: great information, great conversation. I really appreciate you taking the 482 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 1: time to join us today. 483 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I always having to chat about these issues and 484 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 3: good luck to you and feel free to reach out anytime. 485 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: I will. It's been a pleasure to have you here. 486 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: Thanks again. Thanks for taking time out of your busy 487 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: schedule to listen to our show today. We hope you 488 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. 489 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: If you know someone who has a story to share, 490 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: tell them to contact us at whyom dot world. One 491 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: last thing, spread the word about why Not me, our conversations, 492 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: our inspiring guests, the show. You are not alone in 493 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: this world.