1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: In February of nineteen ninety five, on the East side 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: of Cleveland, sixteen year old William Marshall survived in arm robbery. 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: Rumors swirled about a usual suspect named Reggie Lewis. On 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety five, the victim's cousins, Willie 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: and Ashante Smith, ran into Reggie, who denied involvement, offering 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: to go with them to their cousins and clear his name. 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 2: Over a week. 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: Later, Reggie Lewis's body was found in a wooded area, 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: and eventually William Marshall blamed Willie and Ashante. 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: But this is wrongful conviction. 11 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: Wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison, 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us 13 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: at eight three three two o seven four and tell 14 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: us how these stories make you feel and what you've 15 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: done to help the cause, even if it's something as 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: simple as telling a friend or sharing on social media, 17 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: and you might just hear yourself in a future episode. 18 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 1: Call us A three three two seven four six sixty six. 19 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction, where we have a Cleveland 20 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: family that was ripped apart, literally ripped apart by the 21 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: wrongful conviction of Ashante and Willie Smith. But before we 22 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: introduce them, I want to welcome back their appella, attorney 23 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: Kim Carral, thank you for having me, and of course 24 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: the two men who continue to endure the effects of 25 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: their own cousins lie, both of whom are calling in 26 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: from correctional facilities in Ohio. First, the younger of the two, 27 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: Ashante Smith, thank you for having me. And his older 28 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: brother Willie, thank you guys both. 29 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: For joining us. 30 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 3: Absolutely no problem. 31 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: And this goes back to mid nineties nineteen ninety five, 32 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: when so called tough on crime politicians had been elected 33 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: around the country to prosecute the war on drugs, which 34 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: was really just a war on people, the American people, 35 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: when what we had was a humanitarian crisis which became 36 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: known as the crack epidemic. 37 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 4: Not only were we talking about tough on crime politicians 38 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 4: in the nineties, but we were talking about like these 39 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 4: super criminals, particularly juveniles, and so that kind of sets 40 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 4: a tone for this case. Because Willy and a Shanty 41 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 4: were fifteen and nineteen. And when I say that, as 42 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,839 Speaker 4: Shanty was like, there're a fifteen year old who looked 43 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 4: like adults and fifteen year old who look like ten 44 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 4: year olds. That's how I would describe as shanty at 45 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 4: that time. I mean he was fifteen, but he was 46 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 4: very young. 47 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 5: I was furteen years old when I left, so I 48 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 5: didn't experience much like My mother was a single parent, 49 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 5: grady four children. My parents divorced when I was I 50 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 5: was just about four or five years old. 51 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 3: My father, he was kind of a fusive dude. We 52 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 3: would be eating at the table and he might come 53 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 3: in and just flip the whole God damn playball, you 54 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. Food everywhere. And my mother eventually divorced. 55 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: We were living on Kingsmen when I stayed across from 56 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: my grandmother. That's before the divorce, and we were moved 57 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 3: down to the projects project. 58 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 5: Housing called Longwood Estates and they basically got settled on 59 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,399 Speaker 5: East time of the Firs Street. In you, it's fourth 60 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 5: of us. I was a third child. My second brother 61 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 5: is right. She and my sister Satan. 62 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 3: And where I'm the oldest of three other siblings. My 63 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: mother comes from a big family, so she had her 64 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: sisters Andretta kid Agatha and one of her sisters who 65 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 3: was murdered collect Marshall, being you had her brother who 66 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 3: had committed suicide back before I was born. 67 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 4: My understanding is Lucretia Ashantine, Willie's mom. She basically was 68 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 4: the one to find him and that further solidified her 69 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 4: position as I the black sheep in the family. So 70 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 4: Lucretia and her sisters all have children, but really her 71 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 4: children are other than some of the other cousins. And 72 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 4: when one of Lucretia's sisters dies, Grandma takes that child in. 73 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 4: That's William Marshall. 74 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 3: There was always a different type of treatment towards us 75 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: being sneels versus how my other cousins was treated by 76 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 3: my grandmother. 77 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 4: But William Marshall really is the golden boy in this 78 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 4: group of cousins to Grandma. 79 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 5: And our cousins came around, you know, we spent time 80 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 5: with them, and we're all relatively in the same age bracket. 81 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 5: My one cousin, William, one year older than me, and 82 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 5: then my older cousin Laney, is a few years older 83 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 5: than my. 84 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: Brother, Sean Laney, and his mother and Dretta William Marshall 85 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: and his grandma Sarah Marshall, and then Kit Laster who 86 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: married Don laster. They all lived close to each other, 87 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: while the Smiths lived about five miles away near the 88 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: victim in this case, Reggie Lewis. 89 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 5: I didn't know. I've seen you around the neighborhood. He 90 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 5: was definitely a reputation because at around his time, guys 91 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 5: in the neighborhoods with robbing people, stars jackets, Chicago bulls, jackets, raiders, jackets, 92 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 5: or they were robbing and shooting and killing people for him. So, 93 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 5: mister Lewis, he was grappling with a drug addiction, which 94 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 5: I believe that led him out into the streets to 95 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 5: rob people to feed his addiction. 96 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 3: Have you ever seen a wire? 97 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? 98 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 3: Not trying to, you know, disparage him, but I would 99 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 3: describe Reggie as being like what Omar was. He was 100 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 3: a terror. 101 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 5: He was on drugs and he. 102 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 3: Was calls in habit, making a lot of enemies and 103 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 3: doing a lot. 104 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: Then in February nineteen ninety five, William Marshall was in 105 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 1: the Smith's neighborhood when a masked gunman attacked. 106 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 4: I believe it was over like a Mooney Tunes jacket. 107 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 5: He got shot in his back and I think he 108 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 5: came out his neck. He went through surgery. It was serious. 109 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 5: He almost lost his life. 110 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 4: And so a kid gets rob a gunpoint. No one's 111 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 4: trying to figure out who did it or what happened, 112 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 4: except for the other members of the family, the sort 113 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 4: of cousin group who's trying to protect their own. 114 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 3: The Knight of William shooting Sean. Ronnie Johnson, the friend 115 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 3: of Sean Laney and a few other guys went through 116 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: my neighborhood and they jumped out on a few guys 117 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 3: in rough house a little bit, and they came up 118 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 3: with Reggie Lewis name. 119 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: And then on March twenty eighth, nineteen eighty five, Willie 120 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: and Ashante were driving around with their friends Rasheen Bledsoe 121 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: and Clarence Brown, and they ran into Reggie in front 122 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: of their friend Chanel Owens' house. 123 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 3: Chanela Owens comes to the car and basically expresses that 124 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 3: another drug addict named Scott lad Rocket had just jumped 125 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 3: on Reggie beat him up a little bit, and she 126 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 3: was like, I want Reggie Lewis by my jar and 127 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 3: he won't leave. Everybody jumped out the car, but I 128 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 3: remember the name. I said, ain't you the one supposed 129 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 3: to be? And he says, I didn't shoot nobody. You 130 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 3: got me le fed up and we got to fighting. 131 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 3: And then the course of us fighting, he basically like, 132 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 3: I didn't do it, but I know who did. And 133 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 3: base vlase you could take me to your cousin. He 134 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 3: is seated. I ain't the one that shot in. I 135 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 3: don't know why everybody put my name in that shit. 136 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: I ain't had nothing to do with it. It was somebody else. 137 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 3: So I'm like, okay, well let's go. So we get 138 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 3: it to the car. He's not being restrained, he's not 139 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: being pushed into the no damn car, none of that. 140 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 4: And we roll out and Chanelle Owen's immediate statement to 141 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 4: the police is that he goes Willingly with Willie and 142 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 4: Ashanti and their two friends. Later, she testifies that they 143 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 4: all get into a fight and they kidnap him. 144 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: It was doing today. So I'm assuming that William is 145 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: at school or wherever the hell he's supposed to be, 146 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 3: but he's nowhere around. I go to the van various 147 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: station Warrensville to go run down on my cousin Sean. 148 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 3: He walks up to the car. He said, that's Reggie. 149 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 3: I say it's Reggie, right, here. He said, he didn't 150 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 3: have nothing to do with that. Why is y'all putting 151 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 3: his name in it? And he basically like, oh right, well, look, 152 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: we're gonna find out ben. So he gets in the 153 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 3: car and we all go to my uncle's house, Donald 154 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 3: Lasser's house in Kid Marshall's house down the street from 155 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 3: my grandmother's house, Sarah Marshall. So we rolled up in there, 156 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 3: me and the chante and Sean proceeded to my aunt's house. 157 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 3: You know, he wasn't gonna walk up in there with 158 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 3: all these people. She had a fit. And as soon 159 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 3: as we get up in the house, the whole tone 160 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 3: changed with Sean like, that's the dude, who did it? 161 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 3: Why did you bring you down? Now? He no where 162 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 3: our aunt's day. My aunt chimes in. Kid laughs and 163 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 3: chimes in at the time like yeah, if he shoot him, 164 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 3: he has shoot us. And you know, I'm saying, hold on, man, 165 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 3: the man said he didn't do it, So you know 166 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 3: what I'm saying, I'm not about to do nothing to 167 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 3: this duty. And I asked him, I say, look, man, 168 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 3: go and check it out with Williams. If he didn't 169 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 3: do it, he cool. Sean says, well, I'll take care 170 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 3: of her from here. 171 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 5: Man and Missus Lewis got the car with Sean Leney, 172 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 5: Missus Johnson's the food truck, my brother, myself and our 173 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 5: two friends. We left. We didn't see what it. We 174 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 5: didn't even see them leave, and so. 175 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 4: That is the end of their engagement with what turns 176 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 4: out to be a murder. 177 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to Romful Conviction. You can listen to this 178 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early 179 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: and ed free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 180 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:36,359 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. 181 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 5: Of Horse we ate my grandmother. My brother and I 182 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 5: did see her at a hall restore around three thirty 183 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 5: four o'clock of the evening with our two friends, to say, 184 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 5: two frands, the same white car. We dripped driving these 185 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 5: all day. 186 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 4: Actually she saw them on the other side of town before. 187 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: She goes home, which corroborated Willie and Chante's version of events. 188 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: They saw their grandmother shortly after leaving Reggie Lewis with 189 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: their cousins. Meanwhile, as that day turned into the next, 190 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: Reggie's mother began to wonder where her son was. 191 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 5: His mother said at trial that we need to hear 192 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 5: from me clawed down to the police department and found 193 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 5: police before and he said a few days later the 194 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 5: body was recovering. 195 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 4: It's April eighth, nineteen ninety five. A kindergarten class is 196 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 4: walking through a public park in Warrensville, which is about 197 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 4: twenty minutes from where the crime occurred, and in the 198 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 4: ravine they find a pretty decomposed human body. Kindergarteners and 199 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 4: so this gets a ton of attention. So once they're 200 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 4: able to identify that it's Reggie Lewis, they start like 201 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 4: a backwards investigation of like, who doesn't like Reggie Lewis, 202 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 4: And they become aware that he's in a fight in 203 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 4: Chanelle Owen's yard. And when they first talked to Shanelle Owens, 204 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 4: she says, yes, he was in a fight in my 205 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 4: yard with this person. And then he was in a 206 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 4: fight my yard with Willie Nashanti Smith and their two friends, 207 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 4: and he got in the car with that and then 208 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 4: they drove off. 209 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: On April nineteenth, nineteen eighty five, despite Chanelle's initial statement 210 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: that Reggie had gotten into the car Willingly, both Willie 211 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: and Ashante were arrested for kidnapping and had an additional 212 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: assault charge attacked on. 213 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 5: The kick during about six thirty seven o'clock in the morning. 214 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 5: Our team ran in the house and masked on machine guns. 215 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 5: Was terrified and told me and my brother was were arrested. 216 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 5: Our questions and I was fifteen years old at the time, 217 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 5: but they questioned me anyway before my mother even got there. 218 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 5: But I didn't have that to offer other than the 219 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 5: fact that he got in a fight and we dropped 220 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 5: the guy off, and that was the truth. 221 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 3: I walked through the door. The interrogation wrong that check 222 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 3: this Spira says, slid out. We know you didn't kill him, 223 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 3: we know you just dropped him off. The first one 224 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 3: to talk is this one to get the deal. So 225 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 3: what are you saying? If I don't talk, you're going 226 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 3: to put a case on me. 227 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 5: We didn't completely come out and say who we dropped 228 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 5: him off to. That's true. We didn't do that, And 229 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 5: maybe we should have said we saw mister Lewis leave 230 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 5: with our cousin and his friend and become a listen 231 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 5: and dead. You know one plus two equals what it does, right. 232 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: I told them, I said, well, shit, it seemed like 233 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 3: you already know everything. So if you know I dropped 234 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 3: him off. Then you know he was alive, and well, 235 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 3: then what am I here for? You talking to the 236 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 3: wrong dude, And it was like, well that's not like 237 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 3: hot his words, And my mother and my grandfather on 238 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 3: my father's side of the family happened to come in 239 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: and sit down and see seeing where it was going, 240 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 3: and told me not to say another word. And I 241 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 3: have not said another word into this interview today. 242 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 4: Now they do a search in a Chante's room. They 243 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 4: find a gun, but it doesn't match the bullets that 244 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 4: shot Reggie. 245 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 3: At that time, Me and a Chante are only charged 246 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 3: with kidnapping it, and Shant has an additional charge of assault. 247 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 5: I was you and now out of county jail. They 248 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 5: had me the most their adultter height once until they 249 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 5: found out I was you and now and a salemate 250 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 5: who was about will was about like twenty eight years old. 251 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 3: William Marshall has not been involved or picked up or 252 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:10,479 Speaker 3: charged yet. 253 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: An alleged anonymous tip led Detective Sparra to William Marshall. 254 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 5: Whoever made the tip said that they witnessed the murder 255 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 5: in the basement of William's homes that he lived with 256 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 5: from a grandmother and he identified to Sean Laney, William 257 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 5: Marshall and my uncle's and this would led them to 258 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 5: execute the warrant at the home. 259 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 4: They searched William Marshall's house and find blood bullets. I mean, 260 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 4: the house has been cleaned, but there's still remnants of 261 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 4: blood all over the basement, all over. 262 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: A nine millimeter bullet was collected and the prology came 263 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: back consistent with Reggie Lewis's blood, leading to William Marshall's arrest, 264 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: as well as a renewed offer to a Chante and 265 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: Willie catcha Sparah. 266 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 5: Was told me he had told my mother that he 267 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 5: knew that me and my brother did not commit this crime. 268 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 5: He said he knew that we were not there, but 269 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 5: he told me he could not help us if we 270 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 5: could not help him. He implied to me that if 271 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 5: I put myself there and say I saw what happened, 272 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 5: he could help me and my brother. But neither I 273 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 5: nor my brother was willing to put ourselves in that 274 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 5: basement and say that we saw something that we didn't see. 275 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 5: WILLI was willing to do it. 276 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 4: And they basically tell William Marshall they think it had 277 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 4: to have been William Ashanti and they tell William Marshall, 278 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 4: you are going to get raped in prison. Your asshole 279 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 4: will be the size of a grapefruit. We cannot protect 280 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 4: you in adult prison. If you agree to this one 281 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 4: year deal in the juvenile detention center and testify against 282 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 4: your cousins, you can be done with this. And there's 283 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 4: like the family dynamic here. Grandma wants to protect William Marshall, 284 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 4: who she is raising. Meanwhile, we sort of have black 285 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 4: sheep Lucretia's two sons, and his grandma tells him take 286 00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 4: the deal. 287 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 3: Donald Last and Sarah Marshall were having visits with him, 288 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 3: and we're not having visits with a chante, and they 289 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 3: were prepping him on what to say and what not 290 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 3: to say, and they were getting ready to put the 291 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 3: screws and fuck us all the way around. 292 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: And the statement was carefully crafted to kind of make 293 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: William into a passive observer. That Willy and a Shante 294 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: dragged Reggie Lewis into their grandma's basement, ordered William to 295 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: find some twine. William then gave them phone court and 296 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: then went upstairs to be a lookout. They tied Reggie up, 297 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: shot him, ordered William to get some sheets to wrap 298 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: the body, and then Willie and a shunte dragged the 299 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: body out to the trunk of a car and William 300 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: cleaned up the basement that day. 301 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 3: I had never ever saw William Marshall. William Marshall never 302 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 3: saw me. The only person that saw me that day 303 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: was Sean Lanny, Ronnie Johnson hit Laster, and my grandmother, 304 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 3: Sarah Marshall, who saw us for when she was coming 305 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 3: out of the hardware store, which inadvertently solidify my alibi. 306 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 3: I feel because if you saw us with these two guys, 307 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 3: and my aunt saw us at her house with these 308 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 3: two guys, that was with us when we dropped this 309 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 3: man off alive, and well, why am I going to trial? 310 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 4: Willie is tried first, And that's largely because Willy is 311 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 4: an adult and ashunty first had to go through the 312 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 4: bindover program. He'd be bound over from juvenile court to 313 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 4: adult court. William Marshall, because he takes this deal, never 314 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 4: gets bound over. He gets a one year sentence for 315 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 4: his role in a murder and then he's done. But 316 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 4: unfortunately for Willie, he didn't have much of a defense. 317 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: Oh No, the streets and the other suspects. Was getting 318 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 3: teed that I was convicted of his crime by making 319 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 3: sure that nobody, no witnesses, came up at my trial. 320 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 3: I was naive to believe that you got a subpoena. 321 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 3: Ay no, not come in the court. Oh excuse me, shit, 322 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 3: because I said, subpoenas out to kid laughter Raa Sheen Blasso, 323 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 3: Clarence Brown. In my mind, it was time to list 324 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 3: ey voice to sing, and you know, nobody showed. 325 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: Up without an alibi. William Marshall's statement went unchallenged. Rather, 326 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: it was supported by Chanelle Owens, who had changed her 327 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: story to say that Reggie had not gone with the 328 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: Smiths willingly. So Willie was convicted in September nineteen ninety five. 329 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 3: You got to put yourself at the time when all 330 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: this is going on too. So it was a little 331 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 3: bit of hostility going on because of the oj situation, 332 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 3: you know, and his verdict that it just transpired three 333 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 3: days prior to my verdict. You got you know, CEOs 334 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 3: Deputy Shares making comments, even got the judge chiming in 335 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 3: about that. Basically everybody felt like he got away with something. 336 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 3: So I'm hearing, you know, with this one won't you 337 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 3: know when the jury came back and said that I 338 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 3: was guilty of kidnapping, I knew that it was a lie. 339 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 3: When they said I was not guilty of the first 340 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 3: kind of aggravated murder, I was relieved. And then when 341 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 3: he went to the third kind of aggravated murder and 342 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 3: said I was not guilty of prior calculation and design, 343 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 3: not guilty of the gun specification, and not guilty of 344 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,959 Speaker 3: being the principal offender, I was like, whoa hold on, 345 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 3: that's a lot of not guilty. And then they turned 346 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 3: around and went to having a weapon under disability charge 347 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 3: and found me not guilty as that as well, and 348 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 3: an argument ensued with my attorneys with the judge. They 349 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 3: was like, hold on, the state's theory was that this 350 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 3: guy was executed by this guy, and the jury just 351 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 3: said that he didn't have a gun. He's not the 352 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 3: main guy. Did I did not commit this crime with 353 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 3: prior calculation of design, but yet I ended up with 354 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 3: a thirty the life sentence. I ended up going to 355 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 3: jail for a crime that I didn't commit, and that 356 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 3: basically a jury of my peers took the gun out 357 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 3: of my hand. That William Marshall was so willing to put. 358 00:18:59,520 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: In my hand. 359 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: It sounds like there was a conflict among jurors who 360 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: reached a compromise. But hell of a compromise it was. 361 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: The result was still thirty the life. And then Ashante 362 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: went to trial the following spring of nineteen ninety six. 363 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 5: I was petrified, but I got to be honest with you. 364 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 5: I was going to lie and trying to take a deal. 365 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 5: I was thinking about doing it just to save myself, 366 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 5: because people do this every single day in this system, 367 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 5: just to save themselves. This is how cool the system is. Well, 368 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 5: I went to trial for my brother to know that 369 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 5: the truth can get out because I was thinking I 370 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 5: was under disillusion that if you told the truth and 371 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 5: it's staying. 372 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: By the time Ashante went to trial, his family and 373 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: other alibi witnesses were now willing to testify. 374 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 4: Maybe they thought Willy would be fine because he didn't 375 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 4: do it and they didn't need to put themselves out there, 376 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 4: and so they didn't show up for him. But then 377 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 4: when Willy was convicted, they were like, Oh, this is 378 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 4: our come to Jesus moment. We need to show up 379 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 4: for a Shanti. I don't know what happened but could 380 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 4: be attributable to like more time went by and the 381 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 4: family had some time to process what was happening. But 382 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 4: by the time as Shunty goes to trial, he has 383 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 4: uncle don Kit has all of these people coming in 384 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 4: to testify that Shunty and Willie were with Reggie Lewis, 385 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 4: but that they laughed. 386 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, both of our friends was with us the entire time. 387 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 5: They testified to this. At my trial, they testified that 388 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 5: they witnessed mister Lewis get out of the white car 389 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 5: and get into the Booch truck with our cousin and 390 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 5: his friend. I'm thinking to myself that okay, if the 391 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 5: truth is here, they have to see it now. I'm 392 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 5: going to be found not guilty, and I'm thinking that 393 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 5: they would have some positive ramification for my brother as 394 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 5: well too. Though the opposite happened. The prosecutor played it 395 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 5: as they said, if our two friends. This is seeming 396 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 5: to the bar imagination, despite the fact that six additional 397 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 5: witnesses is saying the same thing that testified at the trial. 398 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 4: And Grandma trying to play the middle ground. She did 399 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 4: if actually she saw them on the other side of 400 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 4: town before she goes home. She testifies she sees him 401 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 4: on the other side of town, so it couldn't have 402 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 4: been them. But the state comes in with their star witness, 403 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 4: William Marshall, who has been given the sweetheart deal of 404 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 4: a lifetime. 405 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 5: He gets upon the stand and he tells a story 406 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 5: that makes absolutely no sense. 407 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 4: William Marshall testifies that he and Willian Ashanti brought Reggie 408 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 4: Lewis over to his grandma's house, took him into the basement, 409 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 4: tied him up, shot him, killed him, and then took 410 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 4: his body to Warrensville. Now, how that all was feasible, 411 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 4: how it all went down, There's a thousand gaps and 412 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 4: holes in his testimony. 413 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 5: There was no physical evidence that links me and my 414 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 5: brother to that basement or two victims. We get to the 415 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 5: victim's clothes and the victim's body, no hair fiber, no 416 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 5: finger prints in nothing, But. 417 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 4: It was just treated as true. William and Shunty were 418 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 4: convicted and it's essentially been thirty years. 419 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 5: Did you come back in and they say guiltill no charges? 420 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 5: And I heard my mother and I heard my sister 421 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 5: behind me, and they were stopping. I heard house. My 422 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 5: mother kept saying it's not there. It's not there. It's 423 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 5: just not there. And then I had to kick me. 424 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 5: When I knew that my life was a value, I 425 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 5: knew that the system did not care at all. 426 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 3: I knew the truth. 427 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 5: But it's not necessary. Ain't thinking about a conviction? Who 428 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 5: get it in that. 429 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 3: I'm sitting in the Lorraine Correctional Institution, which is reception 430 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 3: when you come to prison. I'm waiting to be classed 431 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 3: and see what prison I'm gonna go to. And then 432 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 3: you know, they woke me up in the middle of 433 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 3: the night and told me I was going to s OCF. 434 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 3: And I've seen all the older guys ship their head 435 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 3: from undercovers because they knew where that was the time. 436 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 2: That's Lucasville. 437 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 3: So I'm I'm going maximum security, and you know, you 438 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 3: gotta do what you gotta do to survive. You know, 439 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 3: my brother he had to go to Madison because I 440 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 3: think that was where they was housing the juveniles at 441 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 3: the time. 442 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 5: I stayed in to Madison until I was eighteen years old, 443 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 5: and then they sent me to Lucas Hill. 444 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 3: I guess after they gave him enough milk, it was 445 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 3: time to send him to the big house too. 446 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 5: I wat to a place that was petrifying, sir. I'm 447 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 5: talking about I walked to the place that looked like 448 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 5: it was just one of those old if you look 449 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 5: at yourself on PEV with the bars and the towers 450 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 5: and the mean faceguards and then you know, with the 451 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 5: glee clubs in the hand, and you know, don't talk, 452 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 5: don't say nothing, you just keep the high forty they speak, 453 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 5: you don't speak in I just that's that's what. That's 454 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 5: what was my first in its. 455 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 3: Experience, we saw each other. And I'm so proud of 456 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 3: my brother because I saw a lot of guys his 457 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 3: age come in and be destroyed, you know, basically lose 458 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 3: their mind. And my brother, you know, he educated hisself 459 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 3: and he basically became the man that he is today. 460 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 3: And you know, I mean, in a situation like this, 461 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 3: I hate to be in it with anybody, but if 462 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 3: I had to go through it, I'd ready to go 463 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 3: through it with one of the strongest people I know. 464 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: But Shunte has even written a book. 465 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 5: Well the book is called A Life Portrayed and it's 466 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 5: about me and my brother, and it chroniclizes so my 467 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 5: childhood and my early experiences in the home is just 468 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 5: growing up the neighborhood and going to school, my struggles 469 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 5: at school, and my discoveries about myself as far as 470 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 5: his case went forward, and how I went to prison. 471 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 5: I taught myself how to read and tap myself how 472 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 5: to write, and began to read books. I became a 473 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 5: voracious reader and began to write and study. Found my voice. 474 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 5: And that's what book is about. And I've been trying 475 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 5: to rEFInd it a little bit, to get it together 476 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 5: in the manuscript form so I can get it out 477 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 5: here to the puppet. 478 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: If anyone would like to help in that process. We're 479 00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: going to have ways to reach a Shante linked in 480 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: the description. And you know, there's even more to their 481 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: story that we have time to cover while getting the 482 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: word out about their innocence, which of course they've been 483 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: fighting to do that ever since their initial appeals about 484 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: the insufficiency of the evidence, which is almost impossibly high bar. 485 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: After a jury's verdict and they were denied, then Willie 486 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: had the opportunity to get the alibi witnesses available to 487 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 1: a Shunte on the record. But it appears kit Laster 488 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: had even more to say. 489 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 3: I was calling home and my mother was confiding to 490 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 3: me that her sister's kit Laster was having nightmares and 491 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 3: could not get a good night's sleep knowing everything that 492 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 3: had just happened. It destroyed the family any trust or 493 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 3: any love for each other. But she did have a 494 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 3: conscious where a lot of people did not have a 495 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 3: conscious in this situation. And it was to the point 496 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 3: where she kept calling my mother and she's like, I 497 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 3: got to do something. This shit ain't right. My mother 498 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 3: was basically well, order Alfa David, come forward, tell them 499 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 3: what you know, and she did, and she even convinced 500 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 3: her husband to come forward. 501 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 4: So in nineteen ninety nine, Willie files a post conviction. 502 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 4: He got a hearing on it. 503 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 3: My evidentiary hearing that happened in January third of two thousand. 504 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 3: Alpha Davis were presented from Lachine and Clarence basically attested 505 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 3: today was threatened and you know that's why they didn't 506 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 3: come to court. They came down there and admitted who 507 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 3: threatened them. Kit Laster testified to the fact that the 508 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 3: knight of the murder that her husband Don Laster, had 509 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 3: confided in her and told her that Residad Lewis was 510 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 3: in fact dead. When they hadn't solved the body and 511 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 3: said April. 512 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: An open court, you have testimony of witness tampering and 513 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: that Don Laster knew about Reggie's death before the body 514 00:26:59,040 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: was discovered. 515 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 3: It's kind of like in that situation, but it's like 516 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 3: a fark. Once you throw it in the room, you 517 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 3: can't act like you don't smell it. 518 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 4: And then it was denied. The quick summary of it is, 519 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 4: it wasn't enough to change the outcome of a Shanty's 520 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 4: case when it was available to him, So you can't 521 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 4: show here that it would be enough to change outcome 522 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 4: of your. 523 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: Case, even though that evidence far exceeded what was available 524 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 1: to a Shunta a trial. And then, unfortunately and unsurprisingly, 525 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: that hearing was the last positive thing to happen in 526 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: this story for quite some time. After twenty one years, 527 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: Willie was flopped at the parole board for another eight 528 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: long years, and then Kim signed on to help a 529 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: Shuntay with his parole. 530 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 4: So in twenty eighteen, a Shanty started to reach out 531 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 4: to me to do a parole packet for him. And 532 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 4: he is a profoundly impressive person who went into the 533 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 4: system at age fifteen. He could barely read and write, 534 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 4: but now he's written for the Call and post for 535 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 4: the Plane Dsler. He has developed and initiated and promoted 536 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 4: and produced programs within the prison system. If there were 537 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 4: a person who exhibited and arguably he didn't need rehabilitation 538 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 4: because he was innocent of this crime, but who has 539 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 4: exhibited the rehability function of prison, it would be a shunty. 540 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 4: I didn't even lead with their innocent because the Pearl 541 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 4: board never wants to hear that I talked about. They 542 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 4: deny involvement, and there's the lack of evidentce your support 543 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 4: of their involvement, but they do take responsibility for what 544 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 4: role he did play in terms of the fight and 545 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 4: thinking there's zero chances man is not getting parole. And 546 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 4: then they were basically like, well, you admitted to beating 547 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 4: up and kidnapping that man, and now you're denying that 548 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 4: you did this. 549 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 2: Even though they never admitted the kidnapping. 550 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 4: They think the States theories the kidnapping happens on Chanelle 551 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 4: Owen's lawn. 552 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: Even though their statements and Chanell Owens' initial statement all 553 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: said that Reggie Lewis went with them willingly anyway. 554 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 4: Pearl denied, but by then I had sunk in my 555 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 4: teeth into the case and I couldn't let it go. 556 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 4: It took some time to really develop family relationships, get 557 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 4: to understand how this all works together, and William Marshall 558 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 4: eventually came forward. 559 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 3: Sean's mother died and that's when William had saw my 560 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 3: mother for the first time since the trials and broke 561 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 3: down and started crying and sobbed and what have you. 562 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 3: After that, he I guess he probably couldn't sleep, and 563 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 3: that's when he came forward. 564 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 4: William Marshall wrote an AffA David telling us the truth that 565 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 4: he had always known as Shanty and Willie weren't involved, 566 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 4: that they didn't come with him back to his grandmother's 567 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 4: house with Reggie Lewis, and that he had been bullied 568 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 4: and pressured into saying it was them, because basically the 569 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 4: police were like, you will be gang raped every day, 570 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 4: best of luck to you. We're not going to protect 571 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 4: you from that. They use the term your asshole will 572 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 4: be as big as a grapefruit, and this was something 573 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 4: that as a child he was terrified of. Then he 574 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 4: had family members coming and saying, like his grandmother, you 575 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 4: need to take that deal to protect yourself. So he 576 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 4: lied against Ashanti and Willie, which I think is obvious 577 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 4: without him admitting it, But now with him admitting it, 578 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 4: that's the new evidence you need to go forward. 579 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: He added that was Uncle Don's brother Al who ultimately 580 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: shot Reggie Lewis. It's not lost on us that he 581 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: was lying back then, and what would stop him from 582 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: lying again now? The point is he never was credible, 583 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: but there's one big difference this time his word was 584 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: corroborated by everyone else. 585 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 4: And so we filed that. I filed it for a Shanty, 586 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 4: and the state came back and there were a couple 587 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 4: of defenses, all of them equally preposterous. Well, this affidavit 588 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 4: is not believable one because it's possible William Marshall is 589 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 4: involved in the murder. Therefore he's not credible. He was 590 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 4: credible when he was being bought with his life, which 591 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 4: is nowhere in their whole response. They say Willie and 592 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 4: a Shanty are responsible for the murder, which to me 593 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 4: is the point we should just win on that. If 594 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 4: the state is not confident writing that down, then they 595 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 4: know what we know, which is that they're innocent. Number two, 596 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 4: they said this Affidavid's not believable because there's another defendant 597 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 4: in this case, Willy Smith, and he didn't file this 598 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 4: APPA David, which means it's not believable. I respond and say, 599 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 4: Willi Smith doesn't have counsel. I will happily represent him. 600 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 4: I sent a letter to Willie Smith saying do you 601 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 4: mind if I represent you in your innocent's claim. Of 602 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 4: course he is no, I do not mind. Thank you, 603 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 4: thank you, thank you, And we start to represent him, 604 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 4: and then the state suddenly is you have a conflict. 605 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 4: You can't represent both of these people and called us 606 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 4: in like literally, this prosecutor gets in my face about 607 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 4: this conflict, and I'm like, it's not your conflict to raise. 608 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 4: You don't have standing to raise it. I don't know 609 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 4: why we're here in court. I don't know what your 610 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 4: point is, but you don't have standing to raise it. 611 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 4: Willy can raise it a shunt, he can raise it. 612 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 4: But they didn't. They waived it, and here we are. 613 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,959 Speaker 4: And so both of them were denied without a reason, 614 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 4: just flat out denied by the court, and we took 615 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 4: it to the Court of Appeals, and one that appeal 616 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 4: we were all doing quite literally a happy dance in 617 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 4: our office. When we got to call them both, the 618 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 4: state filed for reconsideration, those were dismissed, and now we're 619 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 4: looking forward to having our day in court and bringing 620 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 4: these guys home. 621 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: The state still needs to exhaust all of their appeals 622 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: in order to have a hearing in which the state's 623 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: only evidence is no longer available. 624 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 4: How these prosecutors could literally read a case where the 625 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 4: only evidence is now being recanted and say it doesn't 626 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 4: even warrant a two hour hearing. 627 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: Right unless they persist in continuing to disingenuously posit that 628 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: these men admitted to kidnapping Reggie Lewis on Janelle Owens's lawn, 629 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: which they simply did not do. So with that, we're 630 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: going to go to closing arguments, where, first of all, 631 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm just going to tell you guys, I appreciate you 632 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: so much for sharing this story. I know it's not 633 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: easy and we're all just hoping for justice in this case. 634 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: And now I'm going to turn my microphone off and 635 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: kick back in my chair and just listen anything else 636 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,719 Speaker 1: you want to say. Kim, let's kick it off with 637 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: you and then a shunte and Willie, if you could 638 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: take us off into the sunset. 639 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 4: My final thoughts on the matter are that we're getting 640 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 4: our day in court. Finally, we would love to fill 641 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 4: the court room with support. Hit me up on my 642 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 4: Instagram at Kim Law Krim Law if you have any 643 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 4: information about this, if you want to show support in 644 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 4: some way. But it's important that we engage the community 645 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,479 Speaker 4: so that we can let these elected officials know that 646 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 4: we both are entitled to and expect that justice and 647 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 4: due process be served. 648 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 5: I have to say that this has been taxing, sir. 649 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 5: Never in my wowdest imagination what I ever thought I 650 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 5: would be in a situation like this. Also, to have 651 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 5: my relatives to be the people that will be inspired, 652 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 5: they get the system. You know, it's heart wrenching, truly 653 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 5: was it is. And I'm telling you to be in here, 654 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 5: thrown away since I was fifteen years old in this place, 655 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 5: this experience has tried to strip me of everything sacred, 656 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 5: which is my humanity, which is my decency, which is 657 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 5: my self respect. And I watch every day people lose that. 658 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 5: I watch the men and lose themselves every single day. 659 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 5: And I've been fighting and resisting it. And I'm tired, 660 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 5: and my brother's tired, and my mother's tired, and it's 661 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 5: time for justice. Time for truth and justice. That's what 662 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 5: we're fighting for. That's what we're striving for, the truth 663 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 5: and justice. I will pray and hope that anyone that 664 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 5: is decent and kind and that wants to live in 665 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 5: a society that's just an equitable, fair, who wants to 666 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 5: participate in this process to help me and my brother. 667 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 5: We claim our freedom because it's just our right. We 668 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 5: should have never lost it to begin with. That's all 669 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 5: I have to say for to day. 670 00:34:54,560 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 3: Well, I guess I'm gonna quote Doctor King injustice anyway. 671 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 5: Where is a threat to justice everywhere. 672 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 3: A huge injustice is taking place in this case between 673 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 3: me and my brother, and you know, I know it's 674 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 3: covered in shit. Somebody got to be brave enough to 675 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 3: work to shovel. And I'll leave you with that. 676 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to. 677 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: This and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week 678 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus. 679 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 2: On Apple Podcasts. 680 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: I want to thank our production team, Connor Hall and 681 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 1: Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, 682 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: Kevin Wartis and Jeff Clibern. The music in this production 683 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. 684 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us across all social media platforms 685 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can 686 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: also follow me on Instagram at it's Jason Flamm. Wrongful 687 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: Conviction is a production of Life Ober for Good Podcasts 688 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one