1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Pancreatic cancer two words nobody 2 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: wants to hear, especially a nineteen year old girl. So 3 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: how does this story end up on Crime Stories? Just listen. 4 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for 5 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 6 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: one eleven. First of all, take a listen to our 7 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: cut one. I want people to live. I want to live, 8 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, I want I want here. That's Mattie Russo, 9 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: a nineteen year old college student speaking about suffering from cancer. 10 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: Beyound a mess on New Pancreas and I had seized 11 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 1: two pancreatic cancer an eighteen years old. She documented her 12 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: treatment in a series of heartbreaking social media posts and 13 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: basically it's you're hearing this young girl Madison Marie Russo 14 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: speaking to our friends at Inside Edition with me an 15 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: all star panel. But first I want to go to 16 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: a special guest joining us is Stephanie Condon Auldry, founder 17 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: and director of Craig's Cause Pancreatic Cancer Society, and you 18 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: can find that at Craig's Cause dot c A. Stephanie, 19 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, Thank you for having me. 20 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: Nancy Stephanie. To so many people, the two words pancreatic 21 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: cancer is a death sentence. Now I'm just a j D, 22 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: not an MD. But from what I understand, the pancreas 23 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like other organs may feel. When your heart 24 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: is in trouble, you feel it. I've seen my father 25 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: in pain with a heart attack. With other organs, you 26 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: feel it. But a lay person's understanding of this, Your 27 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: pancreas doesn't feel the way other organs do. So it's 28 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: only when cancer of the pancreas metastasizes or goes to 29 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: other organs that you finally feel it. Is that right? Yeah? Absolutely, 30 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: it's a It's often been referred to as a hidden organ, 31 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: and you know it's it's hard for any general practitioner 32 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: as specialist to feel it pancreas. And quite often when 33 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: the symptoms first present to patients either they're a misdiagnosis. 34 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: For instance, my father, they thought he had hepatitis because 35 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: he was presenting as jaundice and he had an upset stomach, 36 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: and he went through several misdiagnoses before actually being diagnosed. 37 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: So often the pancreas symptoms will present as other illnesses. 38 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: Before it starts to advance. So well over fifty percent 39 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: of the patients you know, have a prognosis of three 40 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 1: to four months after a diagnosis if it is if 41 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: it has metastasized, and then you know, you certainly feel 42 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: back pain, and like I said, you'll notice jaundice, white stool, 43 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: dark urine um, fatigue, unexplained weight loss. You might experience 44 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: nuancet diabetes. So there's a lot of different symptoms that 45 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: can present with pancretic cancer, but they're often misdiagnosed in 46 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: the earlier shall we say, stages when they first present, 47 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: until the patient knows for sure there's something serious wrong. 48 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: I'm really sorry about your dad. Thank guys, you're hearing 49 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: the voice of Stephanie Condon Aldrive, the FANO and director 50 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: of Craig's Cause Pancreatic Cancer Society, And it's especially rare 51 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: and a young girl just nineteen years old. Now that 52 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: wasn't her only ailment. To top it all off, take 53 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut thirty. This is Maddie on 54 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: TikTok as Maddie Russel, and this is my story. So 55 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: when my older brother Tyler turned eighteen years old, he 56 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: was diagnosed with type wine diabetes, which is a chronic 57 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: autoimmune disease where the pancreas no longer produces insulin on 58 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: its own. But this being said, I was also tested 59 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 1: to see if I would develop typeline diabetes and see 60 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: if I was positive for any of the anibodies. So 61 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: when the test came back, I ended up being positive 62 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: for all five other five antibodies, and in February twenty twenty, 63 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: I was also diagnosed with Type one A seventeen years 64 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: old and it's because of the diabetes tests that she 65 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: discovers the pancreatic cancer. Take a listen to her one 66 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: more time, asked word to February of twenty twenty two, 67 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: I had nearly lab work done just with my primary 68 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: care provider as a standard checkup and assigned from starting 69 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: to fuel just a little bit off. My lab work 70 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: came back and my white blood cell counts were not 71 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: in normal range. So FOREAR testing was then done and 72 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: on February tenth of twenty twenty two, quite possibly the 73 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: worst day of my life occurred. I got a call 74 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: from my oncologists and the found a mass on my 75 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: pancreas and I had stage two pancreatic cancer at just 76 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: nineteen years old. She describes her fear as a young 77 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: girl with pancreatic cancer in our cut thirty two Scared 78 00:05:53,720 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: in the understatement, I was terrified and I definitely still am. 79 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: But I'm really glad I went to my yearly health 80 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: check because it would have been so easy to just 81 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: skip it and say I'm fine. So please take my 82 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: experience and get regular lab work done, because the sooner 83 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: you catch anything that is wrong, the better chance of 84 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: outcome and survival you would have. And it really could 85 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: save your life like it did mine. So after finding out, 86 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: I started treatment right away, consisting of oral chemo and radiation. 87 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: So far I have completed eight rounds of chemo and 88 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: over fifty rounds of radiation. You know, Stephanie Condon Old 89 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: Dreave joining us from Craig's Cause Paincreatic Cancer Society. I'm 90 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: sure you've talked to so many survivors people and people 91 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:53,679 Speaker 1: that are battling paincreatic cancer, and you know that moment 92 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: when you realize that you could be facing death is 93 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: something that no one ever forgets. I remember, and I 94 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: had a shotgun pulled on me when I was a 95 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: prosecutor and I was knocking on a door to deliver 96 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: a subpoena. I remember when I learned I had a melanoma, 97 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: a very aggressive cancer on my leg, so many years ago. 98 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: It's been treated that moment when you find out that 99 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: something could threaten you and your family forever. Stephanie, I 100 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: know you've heard that a hundred times from people you 101 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: work with. Yeah, absolutely, it's you know, it's a it's 102 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: a devastating diagnosis. It's a scary diagnosis, and quite often 103 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: for the majority of patients, they really don't have time 104 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: to digest everything they're being told before they find themselves 105 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: either going in for what's called the Whipple procedure, which 106 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: is a life altering surgery. They call it the atomic 107 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: Bomb of surgeries, or you know, they're they're facing a 108 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: terminal diagnosis. So not only are they faced with a 109 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: cancer diagnosis, they're faced with a cancer diagnosed that has 110 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: really scary statistics with it. And quite often, you know, 111 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about it, almost or not almost a being 112 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: having a PTSD effect on many of our patients and 113 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: caregivers because it's just a moment in time that they 114 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: know their life is going to change drastically. We're talking 115 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: about a young girl, a teen girl, Mattie Russa, who 116 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: discovers that she has pancreatic cancer. Take a listen to 117 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: Dave Mac at Crime Online. Madison Russo was sitting in 118 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: an accounting class at Saint Ambrose University when she received 119 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: bad news from an oncologist. The nineteen year old has 120 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer leukemia and has a football 121 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: sized tumor on her spine. Russo has an eleven percent 122 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: survival rate for five years after undergoing fifteen rounds of 123 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: chemotherapy and ninety rounds of radiation. She shares her story 124 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: on TikTok to raise awareness. This offers Russo comfort and hope, 125 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: and it's the message that leads to more media coverage 126 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: for Russo. She does interviews with her local press, which 127 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: is picked up by large outlets. This leads to Russo 128 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: discussing her cancer journey as a guest speaker at Saint 129 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: Ambrose University, where she is a student. Despite her illnesses, 130 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: Russo continues attending class with a four point GPA and 131 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: works part time job at John Deere. In her free time, 132 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: Russo enjoys playing golf. Not only did she continue her 133 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: schooling and get a four O GPA, she takes to 134 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: go fund me to spread awareness about pancreatic cancer and 135 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: to raise money for her treatment. Take a listen to 136 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: our friends at Inside Edition. She raised over thirty seven 137 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: thousand dollars on a go fund me page. Louis Frellman 138 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: was so moved by her plight he donated a thousand dollars. 139 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: What struck a chord with you about her story? She 140 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: was a a very young person that appeared to be 141 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: in a serious amount of trouble. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 142 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: let's dig a little deeper. Take a listen to our 143 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: friends at GMA. This week is not a week, It's 144 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: just a radiation week. Authorities alleged Russo spent the past 145 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: year claiming she'd been diagnosed with leukemia, stage two, pancreatic 146 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: cancer and a tumor the size of a football that 147 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: wrapped around her spine, posting dozens of photos and videos 148 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: like this she's since taken down, now reposted on TikTok 149 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: by another user. So it's my week all chemo. Also 150 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: just when doing radiation? So why did she take down 151 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: all the information about pancreat cancer and her battle against 152 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: one of the deadliest cancer is known to man. What 153 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: listen to this? In one interview, Madison Russo claimed doctors 154 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,719 Speaker 1: told her she had an eleven percent chance of survival, 155 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: and people charity's cancer organizations they all donated to help 156 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: her fight cancer. Problem is, according to authority, she doesn't 157 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: have cancer. She never did and that's not just a lie, 158 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: it's a felony. I am too sick from treatment where 159 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: I can't go anywhere, I can't do anything. This morning 160 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: in Iowa, TikTok are accused of faking a cancer diagnosis, 161 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: charge was stealing from people who donated to help her 162 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: battle the disease. Authorities say she doesn't have. Investigators say 163 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: Madison Russo took more than thirty seven thousand dollars from 164 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: Maddie's fight against pancreatic cancer, a gofund me set up 165 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: on her behalf that's now been taken down. I'm so 166 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: mad I could shoot a nail in half right now. 167 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: Kilo Brantley joining me. Investigative reporter Dailymail dot Com Kala 168 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 1: what This is a crazy story, but unfortunately not the 169 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: first time we have seen people deceive the public to 170 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: get some money and especially use go fund me to 171 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: raise funds for something that isn't even real. And the 172 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 1: way that Madison was caught was by her own hand 173 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: by posting on TikTok, by posting photos and videos of 174 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: her medical tubes. And what's so amazing is that it 175 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: was the public who caught on and said something doesn't 176 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: look right there and started commenting and eventually reporting until 177 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: she was caught. Yes, the tubes are in the wrong position, 178 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: and some of the photos she posted joining me. Doctor 179 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the entire state of Florida 180 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: at pathcaremad dot com, lecturer at the University of Florida 181 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: Medical School, host of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference, 182 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: and treated cancer patients as a surgeon. Doctor Gallagher, thank 183 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. I was thrown 184 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: over to start with when I heard she had ninety 185 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: rounds of radiation. Is that normal? That's absolutely abnormal. You know, 186 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: radiation basically what it does to your body is it 187 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: microwaves the tissue, so it actually burns the tissue. So 188 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: if she had rounds of radiation, a lot of her 189 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 1: tissue would be burnt the disease tissue as well as 190 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: a surrounding a live tissue that she still needs, and 191 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: she would suffer the after effects of burning a lot 192 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: of her a viable tissue, her live tissue as well. 193 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: So no, she does not look like anybody who had 194 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: undergone ninety rounds or radiation. And I would really question 195 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: a department that would schedule somebody for ninety rounds of chemotherapy. 196 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 1: I'm sorry of a radiation typically ten, twelve, maybe fifteen, 197 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: but nowhere near ninety. As a matter of fact, my 198 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: dear friend is undergoing radiation for breastcaster right now, and 199 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be over, you know, once a week 200 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: for I don't know, maybe ten weeks or sixteen weeks. 201 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,239 Speaker 1: And when I heard her say she had ninety rounds 202 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: of radiation, but just as a JD and not being 203 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: an m D, I wasn't sure that I was right. 204 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: But I bet you were spinning in your seat, doctor 205 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: Gallagher when you heard that. Not only as she had 206 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: fifteen rounds of chemo ninety rounds of radiation, she still 207 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: was attending class every day, had a four O g PA, 208 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: a job at John Dear and enjoyed golf in her 209 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: free time. You know, when we when we had these 210 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: patients come to the hospital, they are jaundice. I mean 211 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: they're the whites of their eyes are yellow, I mean 212 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: bright yellow, like nuclear yellow. There sheets sometimes are even yellow, 213 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: you know. And in a lot of these photographs, her 214 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: eyes are wide open and they look perfectly white. To me, 215 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: she does not look sick. You know, we had a 216 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: staying at the hospital sick people look sick. When I 217 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: waited a minute, look, I said, I'm not an MD, 218 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: but listen, I did not bring you on crime stories 219 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: to have you spout out something my grandmother could have 220 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: told me. Sick people look sick. It sounds simple, but 221 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: it's true. I'm just giving you a hard time. You're right. 222 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: And you know what else, doctor Gallagher, I know you 223 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: heard our special guests Stephanie cond An oulderif talking about 224 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: how pancretit cancer patients are often treated for other ailments 225 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: because they look jaundiced or yellow looking. That's exactly what 226 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: you're saying. In these photos that you looked at for us, 227 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: she looks perfectly healthy. Now, how would her eye what 228 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: would she would what would she have looked like if 229 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: she had stage two pancreatic cancer, well, she would do, 230 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: meaning her skin would be yellow, and her skin would 231 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: be so yellow that the white part of her eyes 232 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: would also be a very bright, vivid, vivid yellow, you know. 233 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: And I'm looking at these photographs here, and they're not 234 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: people who are jaundiced. They do not have suntan lines 235 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: because their entire skin is now yellow. And I'm looking 236 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: at some of the photographs. They can see around her clothing, 237 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: she has suntan line. So that's how we in the 238 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: clinic would determine if somebody was having pancreatic disease or 239 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: liver disease that was leading to jaundice. We would look 240 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: to see if they had a suntan line. We would 241 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: look in their eyes to see if they were yellow, 242 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: and then we would start the blood tests from there. Now, 243 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: why can't you get a suntan line, Because the yellow 244 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: pigment that is produced by the disease gets absorbed by 245 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: the skin evenly throughout the skin, so your skin is 246 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: the exact same color from the top of your head 247 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: to the bottom of your toes, meaning that any whitish 248 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: area that you would have would also be darkened by 249 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: the yellow pigment. From the disease. Guys, you've got to 250 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: hear our cut four. This is Regid Terry a kW 251 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: QC six. Listen. This search warrant is revealing some new 252 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: details about what led to her arrest and what was 253 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: taken from her apartment. This warren says medical professionals came 254 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: forward to report the inaccuracies of Russo's medical equipment placement 255 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: on her body in the pictures that she shared on 256 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: social media. The warrant also states that the pictures appear 257 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: that she took them from inside her apartment and not 258 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: a medical office. Court documents say those medical professionals who 259 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: came forward are prepared to testify. Yeah, I'm looking at 260 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: one photo. Let me get straight out to you, Kili 261 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: Brantley joining me from dailymail dot com. I'm looking at 262 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,719 Speaker 1: a photo on your article from dailymail dot com, and 263 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: it shows Madison Marie Russo. She looks like she's got 264 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: a glamour pick going on. She's beautiful, white, smile, bright 265 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: white eyes, healthy tan. Her hair is parted over, like 266 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: kind of slung over. The only thing that makes you think, well, 267 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: maybe it's not a glamour shot. You know those shots 268 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: that you can go to the mall and get and 269 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: you know, very very glamorous. Well, is that she has 270 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: a medical bag and she's got her shirt undone a 271 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: good bit not judging, don't care, but that reveals all 272 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: of these tubes taped and it looks like with scotch 273 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: tape to her chest. She has a chief from the 274 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: ear to the nose now and she's holding the tube 275 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: with perfectly manicured hands. That's in your article, Kella, And 276 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: so that's what I keep looking back at. It's the 277 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: Daily Mail article. Jackie is wildly waving a note to 278 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: me that doctor Gallaghers says, if you look at this 279 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: Daily Mail photo, let's see where you guys got the photo. 280 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: TikTok yep, straight from her own TikTok Doctor Gallagher, you 281 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: says something along the lines of, if Jackie is to 282 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: be believed that any first year med stud it could 283 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: tell you that placement is wrong. Tell me, doctor Gallagher 284 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: in depth, what you're talking about. Well, absolutely, if you 285 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: look at if you're looking at the same photographs, she's 286 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: got a tube that's going in her nose to an 287 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: ivy bag, and she's got one tape to the front 288 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: of her chest. The one that's going to her nose. 289 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: The ivy bag is absolutely lower than the tube that 290 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: goes into her nose. So how is that going to 291 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: be gravity fed, you know, into her nose. If it's 292 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: a bag that collects fluid out of her body through 293 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: her nose, then there's no fluid coming out of that 294 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: two going into the bag. Called doctor Gallagher right there. 295 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: I'm coming back to you because you're brilliant, as I 296 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: have said a million times, and I'm dying to go 297 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: to your International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation conference. By the way, 298 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: that sounds like heaven to me. International Forensic met Usine 299 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: Death Investigation. But Kirby Clements, my longtime friend and colleague, 300 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: prosecuted with me in the inner city Fulton County District 301 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: Attorney's office. Still a lawyer, You've managed to hang on 302 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: to your law license. That's pretty good, Kirby and author. 303 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: What how to keep your a money signed money sign 304 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: out of jail? I to wash your mouth out with soap, 305 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: young man, and he is at Clements Lawgroup dot com. 306 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: Kirby Clements, did you just hear Gallagher? Did you hear him? 307 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: Or were you too busy counting your money. I heard 308 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,239 Speaker 1: him go to the Daily Mail article. Please please get 309 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: to this article. He look at this picture. Hey Kirby, 310 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: you heard Gallagher. That's why I don't know if you 311 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: remember this. I would always try to start any homicide 312 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: prosecution off with the medical examine on once side, laid 313 00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:00,239 Speaker 1: a foundation, you know, outside of the jurispresence, because the 314 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: way they tell it, I mean, case closed right there. 315 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: I don't even need to hear the rest of what 316 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: he say when he told me about the bag being 317 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: in the wrong place at all, change together from me. 318 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: That's why I want to Chase Chase. It's all for 319 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: the medical examiner. Oh absolutely, I mean the medical examiner 320 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: just makes it all makes sense. I mean as I 321 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: did the same thing when I was a grosecutor. It's like, hey, 322 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: just come in here and tell us what you need, 323 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: because you're gonna rule out most of the defenses, arguments 324 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: and these photos. Even from my perspective, I'm looking like, 325 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: all right, you don't. First of all, you don't look sick, 326 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: because I've seen people with cancer, and you are the 327 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: healthiest looking to cancer patient I've ever seen. With this 328 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: sheer number of cancers that you claim to have the 329 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: placement all these devices. Again, I'm no doctor, but I 330 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: was like, that doesn't look right to me. Now, were 331 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: you saying something about your wife? Oh no, I'm saying 332 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: my wife was the nurse. And then she went on 333 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: to I've become a prodietress. So I remember, you know, 334 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: her classes and you know, going to you know, I 335 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: go to have lunch with her, and you know, we 336 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: talk about the work that she did, and she would 337 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: always kind of opine on various things. So I know, 338 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: and my mom used to help issue. So I know 339 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: for a fact when I'm looking at that bag, I'm like, 340 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: what is this bag doing? I hope I've just been 341 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: I'm just married to a doctor, and I still know 342 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: enough to know that's wrong. I'm telling you. I agree 343 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: with you, Okay, doctor Gallagher. I just had to go 344 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: to Kirby on that because he seems, you know, amiable 345 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: and friendly. Right now, you put him in a courtroom, 346 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: he turns into a wild animal and wins all his cases, 347 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: which I don't want it because you're a defense attorney. Now, So, 348 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher, another thing. Jackie's now waving another What did 349 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: you just say about the bandage in the port? She 350 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: wants me to ask you about in the same picture 351 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: a port. It looks as if there is a port 352 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 1: in her chest, and what does the bandage have to 353 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: do with that? What does that reveal to you? Right? So, 354 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: sometimes if people have cancer, they'll have a port which 355 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: is a it's a it's a plastic device that goes 356 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: under the skin that you can stick needless to null 357 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: spare your arms and you and your legs, you know, 358 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: from getting ivs in it. So this port is over 359 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: it's almost essential part of her chest, which is where 360 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: a lot of phones would be. And anybody who would 361 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: put this port in this place on this somebody so young, 362 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: should have their medical license taken away from them. The 363 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: lung is over there. You can puncture the lung, you 364 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: can puncture the heart, you can puncture a lot of 365 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: the major blood vessels trying to access that port if 366 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: it was in this location. So there are ports to 367 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,959 Speaker 1: be put on the chest, but this location is not 368 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: where you want it. It's too risky. Let me go 369 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: to Stephanie Condon Aldreve joining US founder director Craigs caused 370 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: Pancreatic Cancer Society, who lived through pancreatic cancer with her father. 371 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: He was a victim. How I don't know, does it 372 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: make you mad or does it make you sick what 373 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: this girl did stealing people's money fortuity she had pancreatic cancer. 374 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: I guess there's a range of feelings. You know, you 375 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: certainly feel sad, you know about where you know, some 376 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: people in our society or are headed, or what they're 377 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: doing to very you know, the people that donated to 378 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: her cause donated to her cause because they wanted to help, 379 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: They wanted to make a difference in her life. They 380 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: wanted to give her hope. And you know, so she 381 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: took advantage of all of those donors, all of those 382 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: supporters that wanted to make a difference in her life. 383 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: But she also just took advantage, you know, she she 384 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: spread incorrect information about pancretic cancer. And for all those donors, 385 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: I imagine, you know, they'd be quite jaded and and 386 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: not trust maybe to to donate to a you know, 387 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: an accredited cause or you know, and to continue to 388 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: make those differences, you know, and that in turn can 389 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: impact you know, many organizations programs because they're dependent on 390 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: donor trust and donors wanting to make a difference. So 391 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: I feel sad that you know that there's people out 392 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: there that do that. I feel, you know, disappointed, you 393 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: know that there's so many donors that were taken advantage of. 394 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: You know, you certainly feel angry from a personal perspective 395 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: because I know my dad lasted eight weeks with pancredit cancer, 396 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: and you know, you never forget that, you know, so 397 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: for someone to pretend that they had such a deadly 398 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: disease and to take to take those feelings and emulate 399 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: them in such a false way is really taking away 400 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: from somebody else's experiences, basically making money off other people's 401 00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: misery and heartache with me also forensic psychology doctor Sherry 402 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: Schwartz and Special Deputy Sheriff Greg Smith. Greg, take a 403 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: listen to our cut thirty three. You haven't heard it 404 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: all yet. Listen to her talking my freemal skin. I 405 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: was in foreign vapid here on my pancreas was shrinking 406 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: and it was responding to treatment. However, it's also spread 407 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: to my blood and is acute them phoblastic leukemia. There 408 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: is a mental health crisis in America right now, and 409 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: I want to touch on the impact of that cancer 410 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: and chronic disease patients can go through. When your life 411 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: changes in an instant and many days are spent vomiting 412 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: and pain and being restricted with what you can do, 413 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,959 Speaker 1: your mind also becomes sick. Her mind was sick, all right, 414 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: because she was ripping off people with a fake pancreatic 415 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: cancer diagnosis and capitalizing on people that are suffering along 416 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: with their families, watching them with this disease that moves 417 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: so swiftly through your body. But that's not all Greg, 418 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: listen to cut thirty four. Yeah, I get a lot 419 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: of questions on my hair if you look so good, 420 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: like how are you keeping your hair? It just comes 421 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: down to you my brand of Kemo, which is oral Kemo. 422 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: I aren't really looking at that. So thank Goodness bears 423 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: process something to be so grateful for. That's what I'm saying. Greg, 424 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: I'm so mad. I wanted you and nail and half wise. 425 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: Her hair looks so great and the Daily Mail picture 426 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: I'm looking at that they took from TikTok because it's healthy. 427 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: She's healthy. I mean Greg Smith as a special deputy 428 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: there in Johnson County, and you can find Greg at 429 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 1: Kelsey's Army dot com. You know, sometimes I feel like 430 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: we've seen it all, but this little girl right here 431 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: has shown me I have not seen at all. There's 432 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: still more ways to irritate and disgust us All. Well, Nancy, 433 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: this is a classic example of what I would call 434 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: the oldest profession in the world, and that's the con job. 435 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: These people that do this have no regard for anybody 436 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: else's feelings. The important thing here is simply to be 437 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 1: able to pull the con off for their own benefit. 438 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: The only person that matters is them. They're very narcissistic, 439 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: they're very empathetic, and that they can pull emotion from 440 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: people in order to get whatever their goal is. But 441 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: when it comes to caring about other people, there's a 442 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: zero of that. People say, oh, well, you know that 443 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: type of crime, it's a victimless crime because nobody's physically heard. 444 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: That's a bunch of bulls. The mental trauma, the emotional 445 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: trauma that people go through, that particularly those in this 446 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: case that have had a loved one go through that 447 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: type of cancer. You know, it's unconscionable what she did. Yeah, 448 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about all the cancer patients that hear about 449 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: Madison Marie Russo basically using them as a way for 450 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: her to siphon Money Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Doctor 451 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz with me along with Greg Smith from Johnson 452 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office. Doctor Sherry Schwartz forensic psychologists who specializes 453 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: and capital mitigation, author of criminal behavior and where law 454 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: and psychology intersect. You know, Doctor Sherry's bringing back in memory. 455 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,959 Speaker 1: My sister was a professor at the Wharton School at 456 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: University of Pennsylvania, and when she was studying there, she 457 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: met her dream man. Brilliant guy, played basketball through high school, 458 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: one scholarships, so smart, and they married and had a 459 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: child us along after that, he was diagnosed with MS 460 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: and it rapidly ravaged his body and it wasn't many 461 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: years after that that he went into a wheelchair. He 462 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: was basically paralyzed from the neck down. And I remember 463 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: being with my sister and Peter and her husband, and 464 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: we would drive somewhere and all the handicapped spots would 465 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: be taken and she would literally and she raised two 466 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: children and worked full time and took care of her husband. 467 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: She would literally lift him up somehow, she's tiny person, 468 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: get him in the wheelchair. And she did this many 469 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: times a day, even holding down a full time job 470 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: and a demanding one at that, mentally demanding anyway, and 471 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: push him into where he was going to go and 472 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: then turn around and a perfectly healthy person would come 473 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: get the spot after my sister had somehow hauled him 474 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: across a huge parking lot to get to the door 475 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: of let's just say, the grocery store. I mean, she, 476 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: because she's so much a better person than I am, 477 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: would take it in stride. I would want to go 478 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: slit their tires. And I'm feeling that same thing here. 479 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: Explain to me what kind of a person does what 480 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: Madison Marie Russo did well? The kind of person that 481 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: really lacks a conscience on some level, definitely lacks empathy 482 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: for others, and it's very self directed in terms of 483 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: what she wants to accomplish. In this case, it appears 484 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: to be that she wanted money by starting to go 485 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: fund me, maybe she was looking for some sympathy. We 486 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: call this, I know you'll know this term nancy. It 487 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: comes up in court a lot. Malingering. It's straight up 488 00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: faking medical or mental health disorders for personal game, whether 489 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: it's getting out of work or very often some sort 490 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: of monetary gain some sort of compensation, as opposed to 491 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: something like Munchhausens, where people might inflict self harm and 492 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: do really horrible things themselves to make them sick with 493 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: no obvious gain other than maybe sympathy for medical workers. 494 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: But in this case, it seems that she was very 495 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: motivated by money and was going to ride that ride 496 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: all the way to the end. Guys, you got to 497 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: hear more of this woman. I've got so much of 498 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: this woman talking about her ailment, while other people like 499 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: you heard our friend Steph Nikond and Oldrieve talking about 500 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: what she went through as her father suffered pancreatic cancer. Okay, 501 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: listen to our cut twenty eight here or she goes again. 502 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: The first word that comes to mind is just ugly. 503 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: You know, it's ugly disease. It's nasty, it's it's very 504 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: just aggressive than you know and wants to just kill everything. 505 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:10,719 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I think I would describe 506 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: it as kind of like like I don't know, like 507 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: ever changing, because it changes you as a person, and 508 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: I guess I'm kind of going into this spiritual side 509 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: of it a little bit, but like, yeah, when I 510 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: can like it truly changes you, Like I feel like 511 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: I'm a whole different person and from when I was, 512 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: you know, the fourth February like this my outlook on 513 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: life and her spiritual side, my rare end her spiritual side. 514 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: That's her speaking to hosts on the Purple podcast. Kill 515 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: A Brantley joining me from dailymail dot com. I don't 516 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: even know what to say about this woman. So somebody 517 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: noticed she had her tubes and her port in the 518 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: wrong place. I'm just thinking about all the people across 519 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: the world that have to have a port where they're 520 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: jabbed so many times. They finally just put in a 521 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 1: semi prominent port so they don't have to have needles 522 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: stuck in them all the time. And here she is 523 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: with her fight port. What is happening with this woman? Well, 524 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: when officers went to her house, I want to take 525 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: you through what was seized from her apartment. There was 526 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: a brown paper bag with medical supplies, an ivy pull 527 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: with a feeding pump that was filled with cotton balls, 528 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: two boxes of transparent medical dressing, a wig, some cash, 529 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: and pills for nausea that were actually in her mother's name, 530 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: not even for her. So she went through all of 531 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: the efforts to get the supplies that made it look 532 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: like she had this disease. And not only that she's 533 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: stole money, but she also stole photos from people who 534 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: suffered from these cancers and posted them as her own 535 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,919 Speaker 1: to pass them off. You know, just when I think 536 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: I've seen it all, Kirbye clements, somebody like this comes along, 537 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: and you and I have seen a lot of bad people, 538 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: and our line of business that's really kind of always see, 539 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: aren't the very worst of society. I've seen killers, rapists, 540 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: child molesters, you name it, drug lords, you have to, 541 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 1: but I gotta tell you, this girl is right up 542 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: there with the worst of the worst, basically taking advantage 543 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 1: of cancer victims. Well, you know, now from the defense perspective, 544 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: I would dear lord, what go ahead. She didn't take 545 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: meat while cancer victims are impacted. I guess incidentally in 546 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: this she didn't actually take money from them. I think 547 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: she capitalized and there are some deep issues that she 548 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: probably had. As a defense lawyer, I mean, you're not 549 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 1: going to argue that she's not guilty. You just kinda 550 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: have to go in there and explain why she did 551 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: which she did and try to help get her on 552 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: the right track. I think there's some mental health issues 553 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: going on there. Maybe she liked the attention, low self esteem? 554 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: Who knows? I mean's not an excuse to cut a crime, 555 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: which is why you'd obviously be encouraging her to take 556 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: a plea. I gotta ask you something, Kirby Clements, who 557 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: killed you? And is wearing your skin? Because you never 558 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 1: would have said that as a prosecutor. What happened to 559 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: Kirby Lord? Where did he go? Bring him back? I 560 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: want to sign a truth, Justice and Freedom now right? 561 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: You know what? I think somebody's going to disagree with you. 562 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: And her name is Stephanie Condon old Rave. So, Stephanie, 563 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: what do you have to say to miss Madison Marie Russo? Oh, 564 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. There's a there's a range of feelings. 565 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: You know, you certainly feel, you know, as a person 566 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: that went through a diagnosis with her dad, you certainly feel, 567 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: you know, angry that she would try to emulate those 568 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,399 Speaker 1: you know, symptoms and tend to be you know, sick 569 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: when she's not. Um, you know from you know, I 570 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: certainly don't have a law degree, but I know um 571 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: from a you know, a charity perspective, we'd certainly want 572 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: to see individuals like that prosecuted because it does so 573 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: much damage just to our donor base, you know. And uh, 574 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, and anyone that that supported her, you know, 575 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: would feel a sense of being taken advantage of. Especially 576 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: you know, when you look at pancretic cancer, the average 577 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: age is about sixty years old, and those are a 578 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: lot of the age groups that are being scammed and targeted. Oh, 579 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: you're so right, and you think about it in that perspective. 580 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,479 Speaker 1: To Calum Brandley, isn't it true that she is soon 581 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: to be arranged? Yeah, she will be arranged in March. 582 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: The beginning of March, she was arrested, got off on 583 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars cash bond was posted on her behalf. 584 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: But she's facing very real charges. This is a crime. Well, 585 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: you know what, when I asked Stephanie Condon Auldrey what 586 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: she had to say to the defendant, she was much 587 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: too polite. But see, I don't have that problem, So 588 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: I think I can speak on behalf of a lot 589 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: of people. Rot in hell, woman, rot in hell, And 590 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: you can count your thirty seven thousand dollars you stole 591 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: from donors with satan over dinner. We wait as justice influence. 592 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 1: A goodbye said