WEBVTT - Part Two: All the People Who Tried to Kill Mussolini

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media, Hello, and welcome to cool people who

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<v Speaker 1>did cool stuff. You're a weekly reminder that when there's

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<v Speaker 1>bad things happening, people try to confront those bad things

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<v Speaker 1>in various ways, lots of various ways. One of the way,

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<v Speaker 1>not just a person. One of the people who's also

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<v Speaker 1>on this podcast with me is Robert Evans, my guest.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, that's right, I'm Robert Evans, and uh, I'm Robert Evans.

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<v Speaker 1>That's me. Well, I brought you on because you're an

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<v Speaker 1>expert about Italy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I know several things about Italians, Margaret

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<v Speaker 2>number one, number two.

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<v Speaker 1>Spice, here's where we Italian.

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<v Speaker 2>Whatever the hat is that they that the that the

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<v Speaker 2>chefs wear in those kind of racist caricatures. Look, it's fine.

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<v Speaker 2>We all decided that it's okay with Italians now.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, despite the huge trial that we talked about last

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<v Speaker 1>time about anti ty and prejudice in the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, if they'd been I have the opposite position of

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<v Speaker 2>that guy. I'm fine with the murder. If they'd been

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<v Speaker 2>on trial for being Italian, I would have said, fucking yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>hanging you know, yeah exactly, hang am I.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, maybe upside down maybe, Uh, that's a dead Mussolini joke,

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<v Speaker 1>which is which is gonna happen in today's episode. A

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people are gonna try. Give the old college try.

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<v Speaker 1>Our producer is Sophie. Hi, Sophie, it's me. I'm Sophie High.

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<v Speaker 1>I realized when I got my podcast you listened to

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<v Speaker 1>the most in twenty twenty four that four of them

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<v Speaker 1>were Sophie podcasts. The loyalties unmatched, unmatched.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a little bit surprised that that not all five were.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think the problem was that the Pathfinder podcast

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<v Speaker 1>I listened to is really long. Episode need one raised

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<v Speaker 1>like five? Yeah, you need one break for me?

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<v Speaker 2>We should do a Pathfinder podcast, Margaret.

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<v Speaker 1>I would love to do a live play podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe I'll reach out to the guy who created Pathfinder

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<v Speaker 2>and listens to our podcasts talk to him about that.

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<v Speaker 1>I would love that guy who created Pathfinder. Y'all are

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<v Speaker 1>great and your system rules and I play it anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>So but yeah, no, cools on media needs a live

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<v Speaker 1>play podcast, That's all I'm saying. And if you listener agree,

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<v Speaker 1>bug these people on the internet about it. And then,

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<v Speaker 1>because I needed more podcasts to be on whatever, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't care.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a shortage of podcasts. I don't know if you're

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<v Speaker 2>aware of this. Yeah, but the CDC has said that

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<v Speaker 2>it's probably the largest threat to our national collective health.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's the only thing that they're trying to put

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<v Speaker 1>a tariff on that everyone's in favor of, is that

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<v Speaker 1>they're trying to make it harder for people to make podcasts.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, that's right. All podcast mics, Oh my god,

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<v Speaker 1>that actually is good. Most of the podcast mics are

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<v Speaker 1>probably not made in the US. Whatever I got mine,

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<v Speaker 1>I have no idea.

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<v Speaker 2>I have no idea where they make our microphones. Margaret, No, no,

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<v Speaker 2>I do not.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Anyway, this is part two on a two part

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<v Speaker 1>episode about people trying to kill Mussolini. Later, we'll probably

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<v Speaker 1>talk about the people who've succeeded. It took a whole war,

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<v Speaker 1>but some people tried to just cut to the chase

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<v Speaker 1>and circumvent the need for the war. And we've already

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned several of them, but we're going to talk a

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<v Speaker 1>lot more of them today. First, we're gonna talk about Rory,

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<v Speaker 1>who's our audio engineer. Hi Rory, Hi, right, Hy Rory,

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<v Speaker 1>And that our theme musical was written force by unwoman,

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<v Speaker 1>and that Gino Lucetti was born working class in the

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<v Speaker 1>year nineteen hundred in Karra, Tuscany. You ever heard of Carra.

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<v Speaker 2>I've heard of Tuscany because the Tuscan coast is pretty famous.

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<v Speaker 2>I've never heard of Carra other than that. It makes

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<v Speaker 2>me think of that song that goes Tara Ra boom da,

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<v Speaker 2>which I don't know what that's a reference to.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that a slur? I have no idea.

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<v Speaker 2>I should probably look into that song see if there

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<v Speaker 2>was anything fucked up. It's like celebrating a genocide. That's

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<v Speaker 2>often the case with old songs. What a lovely tune?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, yeah, Well, Carrara is famous for two things.

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<v Speaker 1>It is famous for its marble quarries. It produces some

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<v Speaker 1>of the finest marble from which the most iconic buildings

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<v Speaker 1>and statues in the world are made. There's a whole

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<v Speaker 1>list of them, and I forgot to write them down.

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<v Speaker 1>But like, think of an old Italian statue from Rome,

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<v Speaker 1>Old Rome, and the marble might have come from Carrara.

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<v Speaker 1>It has like blue veins. I spent way too long

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<v Speaker 1>reading about this marble.

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<v Speaker 2>It's good ass marble. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The other thing the Carrara is famous for is anarchism.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay.

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<v Speaker 1>When my anarchist friends took me through Italy, when we

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<v Speaker 1>were near Carrara, they pointed out and they were like, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>that's that place was an anarchist stronghold for a long

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<v Speaker 1>long time among the Stonemas, and who put that town

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<v Speaker 1>on the map enough so that I was like double

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<v Speaker 1>checking this today. I was like, Carrara, that sounds familiar, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And I was looking at a mainstream tour company's website,

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<v Speaker 1>Carrara Marble Tour, and they offer an anarchic Carra tour.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, really double dipping? Yeah, I mean, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because there's so many it's like you and

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<v Speaker 2>I always say, Margaret, with so many anarchistsinnar audience, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>every there's nothing that goes together like anarchism and marble quarries. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>two great tastes that taste great together.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. That's why.

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, let's have a word for our sponsor,

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<v Speaker 2>Big Marble Marble. Maybe we could use it again for

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<v Speaker 2>some stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Marble. One time a statute of limitations ago, I had

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<v Speaker 1>to empty all the marbles out of my pocket before

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<v Speaker 1>a mass arrest.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, marble, if you use it to make all of

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<v Speaker 2>your streets and sidewalks like they do in Greece, it

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<v Speaker 2>makes things incredibly treacherous in the rain, actually horrible, horrible.

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<v Speaker 1>Material to use the way that they use it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's pretty though. Yeah. Years and years ago, my

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<v Speaker 1>dad told me this spooky story that he wrote called

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<v Speaker 1>the thirty seven Marble Steps, and I was like a kid,

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<v Speaker 1>so I was just assuming that these were steps with

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<v Speaker 1>marbles embedded in them. But Gina Lucetti was from Carrara

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<v Speaker 1>in the early nineteen twenties. There are factory occupations all

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<v Speaker 1>over Italy. I don't know enough about these yet, but

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<v Speaker 1>they've come up a bunch of times, and they'll probably

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<v Speaker 1>be one of their own episodes at one of these points.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know that in the end of these factory occupations,

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<v Speaker 1>the socialist parties kind of gave up and gave power

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<v Speaker 1>back to the bosses, which made an awful lot more

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<v Speaker 1>anarchists from those socialists who you know, had just seized

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<v Speaker 1>the means of production and were like, but isn't this

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<v Speaker 1>our goal. Isn't our goal that the workers control the

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<v Speaker 1>means of production? Why would we give them back. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know enough about the ins and nights out of

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<v Speaker 1>that struggle, but a lot of people were mad. Gina

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<v Speaker 1>Lucetti was at these occupations and somewhere along the way

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<v Speaker 1>he got into a gunfight with the black Shirts. He

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<v Speaker 1>got a guy in the ear who got him in

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<v Speaker 1>the neck in return. And okay, this second time we've

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<v Speaker 1>had an anti fascist get it in the neck and

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<v Speaker 1>survive on the show. The other one was George Orwell.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that's uh. I mean, I'm not gonna say

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<v Speaker 2>but that that's very lucky.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. Don't get shot in the neck.

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<v Speaker 2>The neck is very low on the number of places

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<v Speaker 2>in your body you would want to get shot.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not a good tourniquet spot. It turns out.

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<v Speaker 2>Hard to turniqit and neck unless you're Google AI, which

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<v Speaker 2>has told me repeatedly that you can turnikate the neck.

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<v Speaker 2>Hell yeah, that's just a hanging, folks. You're just strangling

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<v Speaker 2>someone to death. Oh my god, don't turniquit next.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it seems self evident, but an AI is not

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<v Speaker 1>does not have our best interests in heart.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it just sees well, there's fucking there's fucking arteries there.

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<v Speaker 1>Turn it, get away. Yeah, yeah, it detaches a limb.

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<v Speaker 1>If a head is a limb, the appendage, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know whatever. Whatever a head is anatomically, I guess it's

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<v Speaker 1>a head. So he couldn't find a doctor in Italy

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<v Speaker 1>to get the bullet out. I do not know why.

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<v Speaker 1>So Comrades smuggled him to France, where he was finally treated,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was like, you know what, I don't need

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<v Speaker 1>to be in Italy right now. They are in the

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<v Speaker 1>middle of a fascism and I am in the middle

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<v Speaker 1>of just got shot in the neck by a fascist. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a large political refugee scene in France at

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<v Speaker 1>the time. Anarchists, socialists and communists had formed a popular

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<v Speaker 1>front against fascism there, not only just in general in France,

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<v Speaker 1>but like specifically the Italian refugees had. They were like,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, look all that stuff going on in Russia,

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<v Speaker 1>we're all mad at each other, but right now Italy

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<v Speaker 1>is being taken over by fascists. We got to do

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<v Speaker 1>something about that, right, And they all agreed what needed

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<v Speaker 1>to be done was kilmusse. And this action was intended

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<v Speaker 1>to be anything but a propaganda of the deed action,

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<v Speaker 1>which is I think actually a really important point for

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<v Speaker 1>kind of what we were ended on talking about last week. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>As a libcom dot org article put it, quote, propaganda

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<v Speaker 1>of the deed attacks were supposed to inspire the working

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<v Speaker 1>classes to rise, and in this they were entirely unsuccessful.

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<v Speaker 1>In this instance, however, the urge to kill Mussolini was

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<v Speaker 1>the expression of a convergence of opinion among many popularly

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<v Speaker 1>representative political groupings and was commonly perceived as a necessity

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<v Speaker 1>at that point in time. So it wasn't like, Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna spur on the revolution and radicalize people by

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<v Speaker 1>showing them that, you know, our opponents are made of

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<v Speaker 1>flesh and blood. It was like, no, Mussolini is basically

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<v Speaker 1>the enemy war leader that we're in a war against.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, one word that has never been successfully applied

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<v Speaker 1>to anarchists is cowardice. Gino agreed to do the deed.

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<v Speaker 2>And I mean it's the thing that you come across

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<v Speaker 2>over and over again when you read about like militant

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<v Speaker 2>movements and like civil wars and where there are anarchist groups,

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<v Speaker 2>is that the anarchists are always very brave. Not always

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<v Speaker 2>the best fighters, yeah, but always very brave.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And specifically other groups like putting us in the front. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because that's an aspect of it. Yeah. I remember when

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<v Speaker 1>I first became an anarchist. I was like just going

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<v Speaker 1>to protest and things twenty seven years ago, and my

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<v Speaker 1>roommate in college was like, you anarchists, You're just the

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<v Speaker 1>berserkers of the protest movement. People just throw you in

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<v Speaker 1>the front to like soak up off the damage. And

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, no, he was a little bit right,

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<v Speaker 1>at least in terms of how people perceive us and

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<v Speaker 1>use us. So of course, when they're like, who's going

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<v Speaker 1>to go risk their life to go do this, an

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<v Speaker 1>anarchists volunteered and twice he returned to Italy to meet

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<v Speaker 1>with comrades there to plan the assassination. And they met

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<v Speaker 1>aboard a ship at sea, which is esthetic as fuck

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<v Speaker 1>off the Tuscany coast, and this time there were no

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<v Speaker 1>informants among them. He had several co conspirators worth mentioning.

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<v Speaker 1>Stefano Vadieroni was an anarchist tinsmith from Rome who was

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<v Speaker 1>the secretary of the library. The fucking librarian was in

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<v Speaker 1>on this assassination. The secretary of Mussolini's library supplied all

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<v Speaker 1>of the details including Mussolini's routes by car. Vaderoni funded

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<v Speaker 1>the thing by selling his family's land near Carrara. Another anarchist,

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<v Speaker 1>Leandro Sorrio, was a waiter who was planning to finance

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<v Speaker 1>the group's escape from the country. But then they all decided. Basically,

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<v Speaker 1>they were like, well, we're actually just all going to

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<v Speaker 1>get arrested in stand trial. There you go, we want

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<v Speaker 1>to make a statement. Maltesta, the anarchist guy who's old

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<v Speaker 1>at this point, was briefed on the plan and signed

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<v Speaker 1>off on. So this wasn't a like spur of the

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<v Speaker 1>moment attack. This was a you know, huge conspiracy across

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<v Speaker 1>borders to try and kill this guy. Our Mangino went

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<v Speaker 1>back to Italy and he went to Rome. He waited

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<v Speaker 1>for Mussolini's car and then he threw a pineapple grenade

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<v Speaker 1>at it. The grenade had been made by his cousin,

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<v Speaker 1>and he threw it into the windshield. Famously, grenades are

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<v Speaker 1>on timers, not like pressure sensitive. They like don't explode

0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.199
<v Speaker 1>on impact, no, because.

0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 2>That would be very dangerous. Margaret, I have I told

0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:34.400
<v Speaker 2>you the story about the Iraqi soldier. We're behind this

0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.760
<v Speaker 2>berm embedded with this unit. Of the Iraqi federal police

0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.000
<v Speaker 2>that are in this very active gunfight with some Isis guys.

0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.800
<v Speaker 2>But they're also kind of showing off because like I'm there,

0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:46.800
<v Speaker 2>and my photographer's there with the camera.

0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:47.640
<v Speaker 1>And so I put the dudes.

0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.520
<v Speaker 2>One of the dudes clips into the buttons of his

0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.880
<v Speaker 2>like button up shirt, a grenade over each button. He

0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.640
<v Speaker 2>like sticks the little handle arm of the grenade around

0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.600
<v Speaker 2>and he like runs up and he like fires, and

0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.400
<v Speaker 2>then he leans over to pick up a magazine that's

0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.400
<v Speaker 2>like lying behind the berm, and all of the grenades

0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.400
<v Speaker 2>fall off of his shirt and roll down directly towards me.

0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:17.319
<v Speaker 1>So thankfully they're not set off by impact. Yeah, fair enough.

0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:22.040
<v Speaker 1>In this case, it didn't get through the windshield. This

0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.440
<v Speaker 1>is the guy who should have brought a rock. Yeah,

0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.080
<v Speaker 1>if Violet Gibson was right, you need to get through

0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:31.400
<v Speaker 1>the windshield. The grenade bounced a few meters away and exploded.

0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Mussolini's bodyguards caught up with Gino and beat the shit

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:35.040
<v Speaker 1>out of him.

0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:37.200
<v Speaker 2>That sounds about right, Yeah, And.

0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.560
<v Speaker 1>When they arrested him, they found him with a second bomb,

0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:43.000
<v Speaker 1>a handgun with six hollow points poisoned with muriatic acid,

0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:44.320
<v Speaker 1>which I don't know anything about.

0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.040
<v Speaker 2>And a dagger isn't myriadic acid the thing in like.

0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.240
<v Speaker 1>Swimming pools, isn't that chlorine? No?

0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:52.959
<v Speaker 2>No, I mean I think you have mriadic acid for

0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.160
<v Speaker 2>swimming pools too. I remember I've seen like jars one sec.

0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.520
<v Speaker 1>I actually didn't want to google this today. That's what

0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.760
<v Speaker 1>happened to me today is I was like, I wonder

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:00.439
<v Speaker 1>what this stuff is.

0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, you use mriadic acid to lower like

0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.880
<v Speaker 2>pH in your pool. It's like, I'll let like a shit.

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Millions of Americans have this shit and like their shed.

0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, I have no idea why you would. I

0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.080
<v Speaker 1>either he was being really extra or like.

0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:17.560
<v Speaker 2>Or he just thought it and he might have thought

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.120
<v Speaker 2>it was more sketchy than it was. I don't know.

0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like this one's his acid, you know, yeah, yeah.

0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, when it's really no, I don't know, I don't know.

0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:25.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't know much about it other than that I

0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.080
<v Speaker 2>know I've seen it in people's like backyards because they

0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:29.560
<v Speaker 2>have pools.

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And also like there's so much mythbuilding, both positively

0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.000
<v Speaker 1>and negative about all of these things, you know, so

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:37.840
<v Speaker 1>it could have been like oh, he had a dagger

0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.800
<v Speaker 1>and muriatic acid. It actually used the word dumb dumb

0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 1>bullets instead of hollow points, because that's what they called him,

0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.400
<v Speaker 1>a round that expands at the time. You know. So

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.560
<v Speaker 1>he's tortured, he gives a false name and location, and

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 1>eventually they get the truth out of him. Lucetti was

0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.520
<v Speaker 1>given thirty years in prison, the waiter got twenty years,

0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.040
<v Speaker 1>and the tin smith got nineteen years and nine months.

0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Thirty years is the mac anyone's allowed to be given

0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.720
<v Speaker 1>in Italy at the time, which again more I mean

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 1>later they're going to start killing people. But yeah, for

0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.600
<v Speaker 1>three years Lucetti was in solitary and had only a

0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.000
<v Speaker 1>sparrow that would visit at the window for company.

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, sure, yeah, his best friend, the sparrow. I

0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.560
<v Speaker 2>mean that's sweet, actually, I know. I bet he was

0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.560
<v Speaker 2>giving it some of his like very very rare bread

0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:28.800
<v Speaker 2>that he didn't have a whole lot of because he

0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:29.520
<v Speaker 2>was a nice man.

0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he lived off of I think is just literally

0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:37.800
<v Speaker 1>soup and bread, and that sounds about right. He died

0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 1>after seventeen years in prison in nineteen forty three. He

0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 1>died during a US air raid. Some claim that he

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.720
<v Speaker 1>was killed by the shelling, but the man who identified

0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:49.360
<v Speaker 1>the body said that he had been killed by the

0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:54.000
<v Speaker 1>occupying Germans during the raid. The Italian Communists tried to

0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.960
<v Speaker 1>claim his legacy. They published that one of his fellow

0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.760
<v Speaker 1>inmates claimed he had become a communist in his later years,

0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.160
<v Speaker 1>but his brother and his fiancee, who kept visiting him

0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.720
<v Speaker 1>until the end of his days, deny this adamantly. And

0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, no, he was an anarchist. He died an anarchist.

0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.200
<v Speaker 1>During the partisan reclamation of Italy, two different anarchist battalions

0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:17.960
<v Speaker 1>named themselves after Gino Lucetti. Each was about sixty fighters.

0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.720
<v Speaker 1>I believe, both men and women. I know one of

0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:22.800
<v Speaker 1>the other anarchist battalions I'm going to talk about later

0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.520
<v Speaker 1>was both men and women, and they helped rid Italy

0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.760
<v Speaker 1>of fascism. So he won in a way after his death.

0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:32.640
<v Speaker 1>And that is all most of us can hope for.

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:37.480
<v Speaker 2>I would say, yeah, definitely. I mean in the long run,

0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 2>it's all any of us can hope for, right because,

0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.760
<v Speaker 2>as we've seen, every struggle worth fighting occurs over a

0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 2>long time frame.

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely. As for the man who made the bomb,

0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:53.120
<v Speaker 1>that's a different story. About another Geno because his cousin's

0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.520
<v Speaker 1>name was also Gino. And I want to tell you

0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:57.080
<v Speaker 1>about that story. But did you know what I want

0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.720
<v Speaker 1>to tell you about? More? Uh?

0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Products?

0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:02.880
<v Speaker 1>I love products.

0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Services. Maybe I don't know if you'd ever if there'd

0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:07.920
<v Speaker 2>ever be a service on here.

0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:09.080
<v Speaker 1>I do like a good service.

0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, yeah, okay, fascinating.

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, yeah, whatever whatever they pay me to talk about,

0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.359
<v Speaker 1>or whatever they pay someone else to talk about in

0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.840
<v Speaker 1>an insert into my podcast. All right, I'm really excited

0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:31.880
<v Speaker 1>about here, and we're back.

0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:32.880
<v Speaker 2>We are.

0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:40.080
<v Speaker 1>Gina Lucetti had a cousin, Gino Bibby, very serious country.

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.160
<v Speaker 2>As you said, Yes, absolutely.

0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Gino Bibby was from a more middle class background. His

0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:50.040
<v Speaker 1>father owned a sawmill. Gino Bibby. Did you know what

0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:51.800
<v Speaker 1>anarchists invented? The missile?

0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.720
<v Speaker 2>No? Was he like a scientist being forced to do

0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.320
<v Speaker 2>stuff by the not So I'm gonna get to it.

0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:02.600
<v Speaker 2>You know what, that's got to be one of the

0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:04.080
<v Speaker 2>top anarchism fails.

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it didn't work out well in the end. I

0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:08.320
<v Speaker 1>would say missiles.

0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's definitely some anarchists, you know, in anarchist

0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.479
<v Speaker 2>related groups that have used missiles and are using them

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.160
<v Speaker 2>right now. But uh boy, howdie, it's a general rule,

0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.359
<v Speaker 2>not a tool that has reduced state power.

0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh, that's an L.

0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:25.080
<v Speaker 2>I know.

0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:30.400
<v Speaker 1>It's big L for us. And if you google, I'll

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.000
<v Speaker 1>talk about a little bit more later when he actually

0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:33.560
<v Speaker 1>does the inventing, when I get to it. But if

0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.880
<v Speaker 1>you google who invented the missile, you get the Nazis.

0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.439
<v Speaker 1>But he's gonna pull out missiles, guided missiles that go

0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:44.040
<v Speaker 1>twenty kilometers in the Spanish Civil War, shit missile in

0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:48.120
<v Speaker 1>this case being a rocket but guided. Yeah yeah yeah.

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:52.480
<v Speaker 1>And as a teen, this second Geno, Gino Bibby went

0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.800
<v Speaker 1>around on a bicycle and distributed anarchist leaflets until fascists

0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.640
<v Speaker 1>dragged him off his bike, beat him up, burned his motorcycle,

0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.199
<v Speaker 1>and then burned his father's sawmill. Great, because they were

0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:08.040
<v Speaker 1>a little extra the fascists. This did not make Gino

0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.919
<v Speaker 1>less radical, It just made him more angry. He's going

0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:12.560
<v Speaker 1>to have the last laugh against fascists in.

0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Italy, as often how things go.

0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah. He spent a while in lock up for

0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.399
<v Speaker 1>fighting fascists in the early nineteen twenties, then fled to Spain,

0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:22.600
<v Speaker 1>where he started learning how to fly in case he

0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.359
<v Speaker 1>needed to assassinate Mussolini from the air, Okay, which is

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:28.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of like how I learned a while ago for

0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.040
<v Speaker 1>a prison break episode that an awful lot of the

0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:33.760
<v Speaker 1>prison breaks in the early aughts were it used.

0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:35.240
<v Speaker 2>To be a lot easier to get a helicopter.

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, learned to fly. That's how you

0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:40.320
<v Speaker 1>get people out of prison back in the day.

0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:42.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Come the Spanish Civil War, he worked behind enemy lines,

0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.359
<v Speaker 1>blowing shit up and flying reconnaissance, and then he maybe

0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.600
<v Speaker 1>designed the first missile. If you google right now the

0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.080
<v Speaker 1>first missile, you get Nazi Germany World War two. But

0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Gino designed missiles that went twenty kilometers and the Drudi

0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:00.159
<v Speaker 1>column fired them at Francoist forces. So it started it

0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:02.919
<v Speaker 1>off as a good idea, just a very Pandora's box.

0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.120
<v Speaker 2>That's pretty cool. Yeah, you know what else?

0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.359
<v Speaker 1>The anarchist is not a products and services switch? Do

0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.640
<v Speaker 1>you know what else anarchists invented during the Spanish Civil War? No,

0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 1>you ever played foosball?

0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:14.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.120
<v Speaker 1>Is that ours? Did you ever know? An anarchist named

0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:18.919
<v Speaker 1>Alejandro I forget his last name because it's not my

0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:20.360
<v Speaker 1>script invented foosball?

0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:25.760
<v Speaker 2>Alejandro Foos let's call it. Let's say Alan fos cool.

0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:28.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was a again I'm completely off script here

0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 1>and going from memory, but there was a guy who

0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:32.720
<v Speaker 1>was injured in the Spanish Civil War and he was

0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.240
<v Speaker 1>like an inventor, and he was like, but I want

0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:37.200
<v Speaker 1>to keep playing soccer, but I can't because I got

0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.720
<v Speaker 1>really badly injured. I'm going to invent table soccer. And

0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:44.080
<v Speaker 1>other people had invented it, but his invention is the

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:45.280
<v Speaker 1>one that people play today.

0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:48.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So fascinating Spanish Civil War.

0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:52.399
<v Speaker 1>The anarchist gave us missiles and foosball.

0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:57.440
<v Speaker 2>To the two key cornerstones of the of modern civilization.

0:20:57.760 --> 0:20:58.919
<v Speaker 2>Missiles and foosball.

0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Meanwhile, while Gino's inventing missiles and doing specop's missions,

0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.800
<v Speaker 1>the Stalinists murdered his sister. Listen to any of our

0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:10.840
<v Speaker 1>episodes about the Spanish Civil War for more about how

0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.480
<v Speaker 1>Stalinis betrayed their comrades and started arresting folks that they

0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:17.080
<v Speaker 1>didn't like and torturing people and killing them. The Stalinists

0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.320
<v Speaker 1>actually arrested Gino two, but the anarchists in the government,

0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.480
<v Speaker 1>which is another odd thing that happened in the spanishivil

0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:26.480
<v Speaker 1>war were like oh no, fuck no, and the Stalinists

0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:30.040
<v Speaker 1>were forced to let him out. When the Spanish Republic fell.

0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Like everyone else, he fled into France and was held

0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.080
<v Speaker 1>in a concentration camp, not a Nazi one, but a

0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:38.639
<v Speaker 1>pre VG France one, where from he escaped and then

0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.520
<v Speaker 1>he moved back to Italy and he joined the Partisans there,

0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:44.959
<v Speaker 1>and he freed his own fucking hometown from fascists as

0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:48.440
<v Speaker 1>part of an anarchist partisan unit. I really like this guy,

0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.800
<v Speaker 1>to quote author Nick Heath. He died at the age

0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:56.119
<v Speaker 1>of one hundred on the eighth of August nineteen ninety nine.

0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:58.640
<v Speaker 1>He was cremated with a red and black scarf tied

0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:02.359
<v Speaker 1>around his neck. Ashes were interred in the anarchist corner

0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:03.800
<v Speaker 1>of the graveyard in Carrara.

0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Man, that's that's dope.

0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Also nineteen ninety nine great year to kind of clock out. Yeah,

0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:14.840
<v Speaker 2>miss missed a lot of messiness, got to see most

0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:16.240
<v Speaker 2>of the good star treks.

0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And uh yeah. Geno Bibe, I got kind of

0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:26.000
<v Speaker 1>tiary when I was writing about the life of the

0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:28.879
<v Speaker 1>anarchist spy, pilot, bombmaker, engineer, partisan.

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:33.720
<v Speaker 3>An invention spilot, spilot Margaret. Oh, spilot yes, the spilot, Yes,

0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:39.760
<v Speaker 3>an inventor of the guided missile system, which again not

0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:42.320
<v Speaker 3>our best move. Later, I'm going to talk about a

0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:45.160
<v Speaker 3>military invention, or actually a terrorism invention of the anarchist.

0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:45.960
<v Speaker 3>That's even worse.

0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.800
<v Speaker 1>Uh oh. The Irish are mostly famous for it, but

0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.560
<v Speaker 1>it was an Italian anarchist who later became a fascist. Anyway,

0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.280
<v Speaker 1>back to our main story, people trying to kill Mussolini.

0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.639
<v Speaker 1>Only a few months after Gino one through Gino two's

0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:04.760
<v Speaker 1>grenade at Mussolini, another young hero stepped forward to give

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.760
<v Speaker 1>it as all, a really young hero, kind of a

0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.080
<v Speaker 1>This is the most heartbreaking part of the story. A

0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:13.280
<v Speaker 1>fifteen year old kid who had just quit the fascist

0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:14.920
<v Speaker 1>youth and become an anarchist.

0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:16.600
<v Speaker 2>That's good for him.

0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Antio Zamboni. God damn, I promised you, Zamboni.

0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.680
<v Speaker 2>Get Jamie Loftus on the horn. She needs to know

0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:25.520
<v Speaker 2>about this name.

0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:28.280
<v Speaker 1>I genuinely thought I was very glad that you were

0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.560
<v Speaker 1>my guest until I got to Zamboni, and I was like, ah,

0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:33.600
<v Speaker 1>if I was gonna have anyone else, it would be

0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:39.399
<v Speaker 1>Jamie Loftus, also more experienced killing me. Never mind, No, no,

0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:41.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm not allowed to join the bit about trying to

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:45.399
<v Speaker 1>implicate okay, just checking, no, yeah yeah.

0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:48.879
<v Speaker 2>Until the court case is over and the grand jury

0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:51.440
<v Speaker 2>rules on the new evidence brought forward in that case,

0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:53.360
<v Speaker 2>we probably should keep our mouths quiet.

0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:56.159
<v Speaker 1>By a mysterious person with a bad, fake Boston accent.

0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:01.800
<v Speaker 1>No for anyone who he doesn't know what we're talking about.

0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:05.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm proud of you. Well done. Way to be less

0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:10.639
<v Speaker 1>terminally online. You should listen to Jamie Lobs's podcasts. You should.

0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:14.520
<v Speaker 1>Antio Zamboni was born into a working class political family

0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:18.200
<v Speaker 1>in Bologna. His parents were anarchists who became fascists, or

0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:21.480
<v Speaker 1>at least his father had. He was never baptized. His

0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:24.359
<v Speaker 1>parents only had a civil union because they refused to

0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:26.159
<v Speaker 1>let the state or the church have anything to do

0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:32.080
<v Speaker 1>with their marriage before they became fascists. His father, Mamolo Zamboni,

0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:34.920
<v Speaker 1>when he became a fascist, the New York Times called

0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:40.600
<v Speaker 1>it quote disassociating from radical action, because being an anarchist

0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:43.320
<v Speaker 1>is radical, being a fascist is normal. According to the

0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:48.240
<v Speaker 1>New York Times in nineteen twenty six and now, yeah,

0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Mamolo called himself quote an anarchist and a fascist, So okay,

0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:54.480
<v Speaker 1>what a guy.

0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:58.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's a lot of that too, unfortunately, yet

0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:02.639
<v Speaker 2>could look into their I mean, he considered himself and

0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:06.360
<v Speaker 2>was very angry about other like people who called themselves

0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:09.040
<v Speaker 2>anarchists because he had a different attitude towards it. But

0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:13.080
<v Speaker 2>the guy who wrote A Storm of Steel, Ernst Junger,

0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:16.800
<v Speaker 2>was like called himself an anarch and I guess the

0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:20.360
<v Speaker 2>difference is he just believed in anarchism for himself as

0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:25.919
<v Speaker 2>like an individual choice, still serving the Nazi state. He

0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:29.600
<v Speaker 2>was kind of an incoherent fella politically in my opinion,

0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:32.120
<v Speaker 2>but wrote a very good World War One memoir.

0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think that that sounds like approximately half of

0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:37.520
<v Speaker 1>the modern libertarian party that the other half of the

0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Libertarian party is very embarrassed about.

0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:41.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah.

0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Antio had two brothers, one of whom was in a

0:25:43.960 --> 0:25:46.160
<v Speaker 1>Fascist militia, the other of whom was in the army.

0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:49.719
<v Speaker 1>Antio was a young anarchist with way better politics than

0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:53.600
<v Speaker 1>his dad, and he took a shot at Mussolini while

0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:56.719
<v Speaker 1>the man drove past him in an open car. He missed,

0:25:56.840 --> 0:26:01.200
<v Speaker 1>he pierced the Fascist collar and the crowd killed him.

0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Just stab this child to death. Oh, I've you know

0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:09.280
<v Speaker 1>a fifteen year old either looks like a kid or

0:26:09.280 --> 0:26:15.240
<v Speaker 1>an adult. Yeah, Antio is a kid. This is a child. Yeah,

0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:17.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean every fifteen year old is a child. But

0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:20.560
<v Speaker 1>the crowd knew they were killing a child. Yeah, yeah,

0:26:20.560 --> 0:26:21.159
<v Speaker 1>they did not.

0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:23.919
<v Speaker 2>It was not just like somebody who could have passed

0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:26.159
<v Speaker 2>for seventeen or eighteen, Like they were very aware they

0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:27.880
<v Speaker 2>were killing a kid.

0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he could have passed for twelve.

0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, gotcha.

0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:34.240
<v Speaker 1>I looked at the I don't normally do this to myself,

0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:36.080
<v Speaker 1>but I looked at the corpse photo because the only

0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:37.840
<v Speaker 1>other photos that anyone has of him is when he's

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:43.720
<v Speaker 1>like eight, you know. And his coward fascist father tried

0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:46.040
<v Speaker 1>to distance himself from the actions of his son until

0:26:46.080 --> 0:26:48.719
<v Speaker 1>after the war. But we'll get to that. The New

0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:51.399
<v Speaker 1>York Times reported the father walked into the police station

0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:53.800
<v Speaker 1>to see the body and said, quote, I knew it

0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:56.359
<v Speaker 1>would happen. It was faded. He was a strange boy

0:26:56.440 --> 0:26:59.160
<v Speaker 1>with strange notions. I had a dreadful premonition that something

0:26:59.160 --> 0:27:01.480
<v Speaker 1>would happen to him. Our doctor said he might go

0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:05.440
<v Speaker 1>mad one day. This is the father trying to save

0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:09.320
<v Speaker 1>his own ass. It's not gonna work. Then, New York

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:11.960
<v Speaker 1>Times writes a little glowing article about Mussolini playing his

0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:14.560
<v Speaker 1>violin with his wife and kids at home, taking solace

0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:18.119
<v Speaker 1>after the attack. Then they talk about how everyone is

0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:22.719
<v Speaker 1>saying that if Mussolini stays alive, fascism will keep Italy

0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:24.080
<v Speaker 1>normal and peaceful.

0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:26.760
<v Speaker 2>But if he were killed, it seems like what fascism

0:27:26.840 --> 0:27:27.080
<v Speaker 2>will do.

0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:32.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, violent fascists might take over if Mussolini's killed.

0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:36.360
<v Speaker 1>And on the exact same page of the New York

0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:39.240
<v Speaker 1>Times from nineteen twenty six, there's a different article about

0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:43.960
<v Speaker 1>fascist black shirts rating anti fascist newspapers at gunpoint. Uh huh,

0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:50.080
<v Speaker 1>but you know, but like in a normal way, you know. Yeah, yeah,

0:27:50.119 --> 0:27:53.560
<v Speaker 1>being a fascist did not protect Mamolo the father. He

0:27:53.640 --> 0:27:56.159
<v Speaker 1>and his sister in law were both sentenced to thirty

0:27:56.240 --> 0:27:59.040
<v Speaker 1>years for being vaguely connected to Antio. Basically, they're like, oh,

0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:01.080
<v Speaker 1>the kid couldn't come up with it. It must have

0:28:01.119 --> 0:28:05.160
<v Speaker 1>been a plot by previously anarchy dad. But by nineteen

0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:08.800
<v Speaker 1>thirty two, the elder Zamboni received a pardon directly from

0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:14.399
<v Speaker 1>Mussolini in exchange for becoming an informant for the fascists. Then,

0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:18.639
<v Speaker 1>after the war, Mamlo went one eighty again and started

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:21.080
<v Speaker 1>writing pamphlets speaking of the courage of his son and

0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:24.639
<v Speaker 1>started publishing anarchist material again. Great, he died in nineteen

0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:27.439
<v Speaker 1>fifty two. And he's not the only anarchist in the

0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:32.359
<v Speaker 1>story who went fascist and then anarchist again. Yeah, this guy,

0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:33.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't like him.

0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, again, a lot of It's just like a lot

0:28:37.000 --> 0:28:39.720
<v Speaker 2>of people are more drip, will always be a decent

0:28:39.800 --> 0:28:43.240
<v Speaker 2>number of people, sizable minority, always mostly just driven by

0:28:43.240 --> 0:28:45.720
<v Speaker 2>whatever's pissing them off in the moment, you know, as

0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:47.960
<v Speaker 2>opposed to principles totally.

0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:50.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm just so mad at him for turning his back

0:28:50.760 --> 0:28:53.080
<v Speaker 1>on his kid and trying to throw this dead kid

0:28:53.160 --> 0:28:54.560
<v Speaker 1>under the bus to save his own ass.

0:28:54.680 --> 0:28:57.760
<v Speaker 2>And it sounds like a guy who sucks. Yeah, sounds

0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:00.440
<v Speaker 2>like a guy a bastard that maybe so one should

0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:00.960
<v Speaker 2>get behind.

0:29:01.600 --> 0:29:06.640
<v Speaker 1>I know, I was kind of a little weird guy too, Like, yeah,

0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:11.280
<v Speaker 1>after Antio's attempts on Mussolini, all other political parties were outlawed,

0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:14.080
<v Speaker 1>but they already didn't have any power, and Mussolini was

0:29:14.080 --> 0:29:17.200
<v Speaker 1>going to do that anyhow, was my argument. This more

0:29:17.320 --> 0:29:20.160
<v Speaker 1>or less ends open anarchist organizing in Italy, as I

0:29:20.240 --> 0:29:23.600
<v Speaker 1>understand it, and Mussolini brings back the death penalty now

0:29:23.640 --> 0:29:26.880
<v Speaker 1>for anyone trying to kill him or the king. That

0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:30.640
<v Speaker 1>didn't stop people from trying to kill him. No one

0:29:30.680 --> 0:29:32.920
<v Speaker 1>tries to kill a dictator thinking it's a safe thing

0:29:33.000 --> 0:29:35.000
<v Speaker 1>to do. Nope.

0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:38.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, nobody's ever killed a dictator. Being like this is

0:29:38.800 --> 0:29:41.640
<v Speaker 2>this is more relaxing than staying home at night and

0:29:42.240 --> 0:29:43.280
<v Speaker 2>reading the newspaper.

0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm gonna get away from this just fine.

0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:48.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, although later the.

0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:49.760
<v Speaker 1>People who do kill Missolini do.

0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:53.800
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, that's a different time. That's really not an assassination.

0:29:54.320 --> 0:29:58.400
<v Speaker 1>No. No. The next attempt we're going to talk about

0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:00.800
<v Speaker 1>was a man who, like Atano bread She before him,

0:30:00.920 --> 0:30:03.880
<v Speaker 1>abandoned the safety of the United States and kind of

0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:07.040
<v Speaker 1>abandoned his family there to return to Italy to try

0:30:07.040 --> 0:30:12.760
<v Speaker 1>and do what was right. His name was Mikela Shiu Okay,

0:30:13.280 --> 0:30:16.880
<v Speaker 1>which to me looks like it's spelled Michelle if anyone's curious,

0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:20.040
<v Speaker 1>But it's like the French, but it's not. It's Italian,

0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:23.760
<v Speaker 1>so it's Macla Miclay. Shiro was born in eighteen ninety

0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:27.560
<v Speaker 1>nine on Sardinia, which is an Italian island. His father

0:30:27.640 --> 0:30:30.800
<v Speaker 1>had already emigrated to the US and Michaelay was raised

0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:33.719
<v Speaker 1>by his mother. He was twice arrested in demonstrations as

0:30:33.760 --> 0:30:37.360
<v Speaker 1>a kid. He was conscripted into World War One, and

0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:38.960
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of anarchists at the time, he was

0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:41.040
<v Speaker 1>hoping the war would turn into a war of liberation.

0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:43.000
<v Speaker 1>It did not.

0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:46.360
<v Speaker 2>Famously, it's a bummer, yeah.

0:30:46.640 --> 0:30:49.520
<v Speaker 1>Mckelay became convinced of anarchism after the Communist Party, he

0:30:49.520 --> 0:30:52.280
<v Speaker 1>felt sold out the factory occupations and let the bosses

0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:55.880
<v Speaker 1>back in. He eventually moves to Manhattan. He starts fighting

0:30:56.000 --> 0:30:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Italian fascists in the streets. He worked as a mechanic

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:03.040
<v Speaker 1>and then he became a banana wholesaler in the Bronx.

0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:07.360
<v Speaker 1>He married an Irish American woman named Minnie. He had

0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:09.600
<v Speaker 1>two kids. I think he had a son and a daughter.

0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:13.280
<v Speaker 1>But he was watching Italy fall to fascism and he

0:31:13.280 --> 0:31:17.000
<v Speaker 1>couldn't handle it. He was like, someone's got to do something.

0:31:17.720 --> 0:31:21.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm someone. I'm gonna do something. He went first to

0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:25.080
<v Speaker 1>France and then likely coordinated with anarchists there, but he

0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:27.560
<v Speaker 1>kept his mouth shut about it, so we never know.

0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:30.560
<v Speaker 1>We'll never know, like who else was involved because they

0:31:30.560 --> 0:31:33.840
<v Speaker 1>were never arrested. He went up to Belgium, and he

0:31:33.880 --> 0:31:36.200
<v Speaker 1>worked in an anarchist bomb making workshop. I don't know,

0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:37.720
<v Speaker 1>there's like a like fly you go to like the

0:31:37.720 --> 0:31:39.480
<v Speaker 1>punk show and there's a flyer. It's like, hey, come

0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:43.200
<v Speaker 1>to the anarchist bomb making workshop this Saturday. Yeah, but

0:31:43.240 --> 0:31:45.640
<v Speaker 1>he made himself two bombs and then he traveled to

0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:49.800
<v Speaker 1>Rome in January nineteen thirty one. We've only got his

0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:53.320
<v Speaker 1>confession under duress to work from, so we don't. You know,

0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:55.840
<v Speaker 1>famously not always the most.

0:31:55.600 --> 0:31:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Honest and not a great source.

0:31:58.080 --> 0:32:01.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but ogonal plan he said was that he was

0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:03.920
<v Speaker 1>going to use the bombs in Paris against the Soviet

0:32:03.960 --> 0:32:07.000
<v Speaker 1>embassy in revenge for the murder of anarchists in the USSR.

0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:11.760
<v Speaker 1>But then he decided to kill Mussolini himself. I think

0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:14.360
<v Speaker 1>that that was his backup plan. I think that he

0:32:14.400 --> 0:32:16.840
<v Speaker 1>went to I think he went back to Europe to

0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:21.480
<v Speaker 1>try and kill Mssolini. But in Rome he rented two

0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:24.280
<v Speaker 1>hotel rooms, one for himself and one for his bombs.

0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:27.280
<v Speaker 1>Because bombs need privacy too, you know.

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:32.520
<v Speaker 2>Of course, yes, that's actually my primary political issue, yeah,

0:32:32.680 --> 0:32:36.600
<v Speaker 2>is extending privacy rights to modern military explosives. You know,

0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:39.800
<v Speaker 2>nobody needs to know what a couple of jade ams

0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:42.720
<v Speaker 2>get up to in their spare time. That's between them

0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:45.440
<v Speaker 2>and God and whatever village they're hitting.

0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:51.000
<v Speaker 1>While he was there, he was either shacking up with

0:32:51.200 --> 0:32:55.400
<v Speaker 1>or conspiring with a Hungarian dancer named Anna Lukowski. If

0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:57.880
<v Speaker 1>I were writing the story, it would be both. Also,

0:32:58.280 --> 0:33:01.960
<v Speaker 1>everyone writes sex work out of history, so I would

0:33:02.000 --> 0:33:03.440
<v Speaker 1>put money that she was a sex worker, but that

0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:05.560
<v Speaker 1>doesn't make her less or more likely to have been

0:33:05.560 --> 0:33:09.440
<v Speaker 1>one of the conspirators. And there is reason to believe

0:33:09.680 --> 0:33:12.520
<v Speaker 1>that he is part of a broader conspiracy working, but

0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:14.480
<v Speaker 1>he never rats them out. And the reason that we

0:33:14.560 --> 0:33:18.800
<v Speaker 1>think this is that he spent money really freely while

0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:21.840
<v Speaker 1>he was there. He was renting two hotel rooms, but

0:33:21.920 --> 0:33:24.160
<v Speaker 1>he had no money on him when he was arrested,

0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:25.840
<v Speaker 1>and there was like no money in any of the

0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:29.280
<v Speaker 1>rooms or whatever. Right, So he was probably working with

0:33:29.400 --> 0:33:31.600
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of people who wanted Mussolini dead. A lot

0:33:31.680 --> 0:33:33.120
<v Speaker 1>of people wanted Mussolini dead.

0:33:33.680 --> 0:33:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for some reason, his.

0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Plan was really simple. One of his hotel rooms overlooked

0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:41.640
<v Speaker 1>a common route for Mussolini's car. He was going to

0:33:41.680 --> 0:33:46.120
<v Speaker 1>wait and drop a bomb on Mussolini, but he wanted

0:33:46.120 --> 0:33:48.800
<v Speaker 1>to do it when there was no bystanders around, of course,

0:33:48.880 --> 0:33:50.680
<v Speaker 1>And this is the thing that has come up a

0:33:50.720 --> 0:33:52.480
<v Speaker 1>bunch of times in the show, but has left out

0:33:52.520 --> 0:33:57.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the sensationless stuff about bomb assassinations, as

0:33:57.080 --> 0:33:59.719
<v Speaker 1>all of the bystanders who get killed. There have been

0:33:59.800 --> 0:34:01.600
<v Speaker 1>so so many times in history, and there's gonna be

0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:05.520
<v Speaker 1>two in this episode where people don't do it because

0:34:05.560 --> 0:34:07.800
<v Speaker 1>they can't find a way to do it without hurting people.

0:34:09.880 --> 0:34:12.640
<v Speaker 1>He's there for like three weeks and he can't find

0:34:12.680 --> 0:34:15.399
<v Speaker 1>a way to not hurt anyone else. He had all

0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:17.560
<v Speaker 1>but given up, and he was figuring he'd go back

0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:21.719
<v Speaker 1>to Paris and attack the Soviets instead. When he was

0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:25.120
<v Speaker 1>stopped on the street by cops on February third, nineteen

0:34:25.160 --> 0:34:27.880
<v Speaker 1>thirty one. And I think he was just like stopped

0:34:27.880 --> 0:34:30.640
<v Speaker 1>for being a sketchy guy because it's a fascist state,

0:34:30.800 --> 0:34:33.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, and they take him to a holding cell

0:34:33.400 --> 0:34:37.960
<v Speaker 1>for investigation. There were three cops in the room. He

0:34:38.040 --> 0:34:42.319
<v Speaker 1>pulled a gun and shot all three cops. Wow, and

0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:45.080
<v Speaker 1>then he shouted, long live anarchy and put the gun

0:34:45.080 --> 0:34:48.640
<v Speaker 1>in his own mouth and pulled the trigger. Well, okay,

0:34:48.920 --> 0:34:51.680
<v Speaker 1>all four men survived. Oh my god.

0:34:52.280 --> 0:34:55.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, wow, I mean that does have to win my

0:34:55.160 --> 0:34:58.400
<v Speaker 2>award for worst with a gun of anyone on this podcast.

0:34:58.480 --> 0:35:01.759
<v Speaker 2>To shoot four people in pluting yourself and have them

0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:05.680
<v Speaker 2>all live is a real yeah. Honestly though, I got

0:35:05.800 --> 0:35:07.440
<v Speaker 2>to say, given the time, something that probably just goes

0:35:07.480 --> 0:35:10.279
<v Speaker 2>down to how much worse ammunition was back then. You know,

0:35:10.360 --> 0:35:13.480
<v Speaker 2>powder loads were less reliable. He may have loaded himself,

0:35:13.600 --> 0:35:13.799
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:17.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like I think he like he seriously injured one

0:35:17.480 --> 0:35:20.440
<v Speaker 1>of the cops in himself, Jesus Christ. He was like

0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:25.319
<v Speaker 1>rushed to emergency surgery, and they, you know, wanted him

0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:26.719
<v Speaker 1>fit to stand trial.

0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Right, stand trial for killing no one.

0:35:30.760 --> 0:35:34.959
<v Speaker 1>That's actually part of the thing. I was reading newspapers

0:35:35.000 --> 0:35:37.880
<v Speaker 1>at the time, and they were like, look, shooting cops

0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:40.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't carry the death penalty, so it actually was against

0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:44.600
<v Speaker 1>their own laws to try and give him the death penalty.

0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:48.360
<v Speaker 1>But he admitted that he was there to kill Missolini.

0:35:49.080 --> 0:35:50.960
<v Speaker 1>In fact, he pretty much they were like, what are

0:35:50.960 --> 0:35:52.759
<v Speaker 1>you doing. He was like, I'm here to kill Missolini.

0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:53.759
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

0:35:54.800 --> 0:35:57.200
<v Speaker 1>He tried to write his wife, and his wife tried

0:35:57.239 --> 0:35:58.879
<v Speaker 1>to write him while he was in jail, but their

0:35:58.920 --> 0:36:01.520
<v Speaker 1>letters were confiscated. He wrote to his father to the

0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:05.520
<v Speaker 1>same effect in May nineteen thirty one, he was tried

0:36:05.560 --> 0:36:08.520
<v Speaker 1>by a fascist judge with no jury, and all the

0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:10.760
<v Speaker 1>lawyers and witnesses had to be put before a special

0:36:10.760 --> 0:36:14.759
<v Speaker 1>tribunal before they could come in. His defense was basically,

0:36:15.640 --> 0:36:18.920
<v Speaker 1>I came here to blow out Mussolini. During the trial,

0:36:18.960 --> 0:36:22.320
<v Speaker 1>he decried both fascism and communism. They told him he

0:36:22.360 --> 0:36:25.040
<v Speaker 1>would be executed, shot in the back. He didn't say

0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:27.719
<v Speaker 1>a word as the sentence came down. When he was

0:36:27.760 --> 0:36:30.880
<v Speaker 1>asked if he had anything to add, he shrugged his shoulders.

0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:35.320
<v Speaker 1>At two thirty am the next morning, they came into

0:36:35.320 --> 0:36:37.560
<v Speaker 1>his cell and told him he would be killed at sunrise.

0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:40.440
<v Speaker 1>He said he did not need a priest, and he

0:36:40.480 --> 0:36:42.440
<v Speaker 1>was shot in the back by a firing squad of

0:36:42.480 --> 0:36:46.880
<v Speaker 1>twenty four fascists, folks from his home of Sardinia, who

0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:49.840
<v Speaker 1>had volunteered specifically to kill him.

0:36:50.200 --> 0:36:53.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, I guess that's a nice at least you.

0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:55.960
<v Speaker 1>No, it's your guys.

0:36:55.960 --> 0:36:59.400
<v Speaker 2>You went to high school with murdering. Yeah, totally, Actually

0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:00.560
<v Speaker 2>sounds much worse.

0:37:00.840 --> 0:37:05.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. His wife, Minnie lived to nineteen eighty seven, dying

0:37:05.280 --> 0:37:09.160
<v Speaker 1>at eighty three. Their son Spartaco, died in two thousand

0:37:09.200 --> 0:37:11.680
<v Speaker 1>and five. I found an article I couldn't get access

0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:16.520
<v Speaker 1>to behind an academic wall of Spartaco writing about his father,

0:37:16.560 --> 0:37:19.440
<v Speaker 1>And I'm kind of sad I couldn't get it. But

0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:23.680
<v Speaker 1>here's an assassin who didn't go through with his actions

0:37:23.760 --> 0:37:28.400
<v Speaker 1>because he couldn't do it without hurting anyone else. Now

0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:33.120
<v Speaker 1>let's talk about the opposite sure, but before that, let's

0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:36.320
<v Speaker 1>talk about the other opposite products and services.

0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Ah, I love products and services.

0:37:39.040 --> 0:37:40.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, someone's going to get hurt.

0:37:41.040 --> 0:37:43.759
<v Speaker 2>Mh's that's the promise we make.

0:37:46.760 --> 0:37:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Here they are.

0:37:56.680 --> 0:37:58.000
<v Speaker 2>And we're burke.

0:37:58.719 --> 0:38:01.840
<v Speaker 1>We are burt. Now I'm going to talk about my

0:38:01.920 --> 0:38:03.400
<v Speaker 1>least favorite anarchist in history.

0:38:04.080 --> 0:38:07.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh, there's a couple of jokes. There's a couple of

0:38:07.840 --> 0:38:08.680
<v Speaker 2>jokes I could make.

0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:16.080
<v Speaker 1>We know, but yeah, no, my least favorite anarchist I've

0:38:16.080 --> 0:38:19.479
<v Speaker 1>never met. You don't stay in a political scene without

0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:24.279
<v Speaker 1>making a few. Let's go with frenemies. Yeah. So, there's

0:38:24.280 --> 0:38:26.759
<v Speaker 1>a long list of things anarchists have invented which can

0:38:26.840 --> 0:38:29.880
<v Speaker 1>be used for good or evil. The carriage mounted machine gun,

0:38:30.560 --> 0:38:38.440
<v Speaker 1>missiles apparently, the getaway car, foosball, steampunk, free bike programs, signal,

0:38:38.560 --> 0:38:42.319
<v Speaker 1>the messaging app. One thing that you can say was

0:38:42.440 --> 0:38:45.080
<v Speaker 1>probably invented by someone who called themselves an anarchist at

0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:48.880
<v Speaker 1>the time. Was the car bomb? Uh?

0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:52.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, look, I've seen a couple of car bombs.

0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:55.439
<v Speaker 2>I've even seen one kill people and not a fan

0:38:55.520 --> 0:38:58.439
<v Speaker 2>of car bombs. No, well, it was a vbied, which

0:38:58.480 --> 0:39:01.920
<v Speaker 2>I guess is like an it's in that line of descent.

0:39:02.200 --> 0:39:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm still sorry you to see anyone die.

0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:08.799
<v Speaker 2>It's okay, I mostly I mean they were far enough

0:39:08.800 --> 0:39:11.240
<v Speaker 2>away that I just kind of saw them turned into smoke.

0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, no, I'm sure that doesn't have any effects

0:39:13.920 --> 0:39:19.040
<v Speaker 1>on yourself. No, not at all, not at all. Yeah.

0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:23.120
<v Speaker 1>Before the Oklahoma City bombing, the deadliest terrorist attack in

0:39:23.280 --> 0:39:27.080
<v Speaker 1>US history was the Wall Street bombing of September sixteenth,

0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:28.040
<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenty.

0:39:28.120 --> 0:39:28.279
<v Speaker 2>Oh.

0:39:28.320 --> 0:39:31.719
<v Speaker 1>I have heard of this. Yeah, someone it is not

0:39:32.000 --> 0:39:36.400
<v Speaker 1>certain who used a horse drawn wagon as the first

0:39:36.400 --> 0:39:39.239
<v Speaker 1>car bomb. And every time I say the first in

0:39:39.280 --> 0:39:42.040
<v Speaker 1>any show, it's like, you know, I don't know the

0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:45.359
<v Speaker 1>first that I know about, Right, there's a whole book

0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:47.040
<v Speaker 1>about the history of the car bomb called Buddhas Wagon,

0:39:47.080 --> 0:39:48.799
<v Speaker 1>because we're going to get to ooh, that's how it

0:39:48.840 --> 0:39:52.640
<v Speaker 1>was probably Mario Buddha. Yeah, in this car bomb, I

0:39:52.680 --> 0:39:53.359
<v Speaker 1>thought there were talk.

0:39:54.200 --> 0:39:56.239
<v Speaker 2>I was hoping there were some Buddhist history with car

0:39:56.320 --> 0:39:58.439
<v Speaker 2>bombs that I hadn't heard. But okay, that makes sense.

0:39:58.520 --> 0:40:02.000
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean maybe I don't, no, but yes, in

0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:04.800
<v Speaker 1>this carriage was one hundred pounds of dynamite five hundred

0:40:04.800 --> 0:40:08.960
<v Speaker 1>pounds of cast iron weights for shrapnel, and they rode

0:40:09.000 --> 0:40:10.759
<v Speaker 1>the horse up and then the driver got out and

0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:14.200
<v Speaker 1>left and blew up on Wall Street, not in one

0:40:14.200 --> 0:40:17.320
<v Speaker 1>of the buildings. It killed forty people, and then like injure,

0:40:17.400 --> 0:40:21.239
<v Speaker 1>hundreds of people and almost everyone that killed were like

0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:24.600
<v Speaker 1>fucking kids that worked as messengers and like clerks and shit.

0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:30.080
<v Speaker 2>Again, this is like the problem of like just this

0:40:30.120 --> 0:40:33.480
<v Speaker 2>thing you get on Twitter whenever stuff happens where it's

0:40:33.520 --> 0:40:36.239
<v Speaker 2>like somebody has attacked this group of people that like

0:40:36.360 --> 0:40:39.120
<v Speaker 2>leftists broadly dislike, and it's like, I don't know, wait

0:40:39.160 --> 0:40:41.439
<v Speaker 2>a minute to see if that's who they hit. Yeah,

0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:43.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm not talking about you know, the recent thing,

0:40:43.960 --> 0:40:46.880
<v Speaker 2>but like it happens often where it's like yeah, it

0:40:46.880 --> 0:40:49.120
<v Speaker 2>turns out like oh no, no, that's not that's not

0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:52.719
<v Speaker 2>who got hurt. Yeah, because that's you know, with bombs,

0:40:52.840 --> 0:40:55.680
<v Speaker 2>very hard to be It's the same thing like it's

0:40:55.680 --> 0:40:58.200
<v Speaker 2>not just a leftist thing. Like it's mostly not a

0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:00.760
<v Speaker 2>leftist thing. It's a thing that I grew up watching

0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:03.440
<v Speaker 2>all of the adults around me celebrate as like bombs

0:41:03.480 --> 0:41:06.960
<v Speaker 2>got dropped in places that I now know because I

0:41:07.040 --> 0:41:09.359
<v Speaker 2>understand more about bombs and talk to people who were

0:41:09.400 --> 0:41:11.680
<v Speaker 2>in those places when they were being bombed, were largely

0:41:11.760 --> 0:41:14.680
<v Speaker 2>killing civilians, because precision bombing is mostly a myth.

0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:16.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally.

0:41:16.920 --> 0:41:18.799
<v Speaker 2>It's just like people love explosions.

0:41:19.920 --> 0:41:22.120
<v Speaker 1>And the guy who had recently just tried to kill

0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:25.279
<v Speaker 1>MUSSLINI earlier on the story didn't do it because it

0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:27.840
<v Speaker 1>wasn't a good buy chance. Yep.

0:41:28.480 --> 0:41:31.200
<v Speaker 2>And don't make bombs. I shouldn't need to say that.

0:41:31.239 --> 0:41:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Don't be making bombs, don't do bombs. Bombs. Bomb's bad.

0:41:35.239 --> 0:41:37.160
<v Speaker 2>You will not be the one who figures out how

0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:41.520
<v Speaker 2>to use bombs ethically, no one ever has been.

0:41:42.400 --> 0:41:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and this wasn't some kids who died as collateral damage,

0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:49.640
<v Speaker 1>but we killed some big shots. This was all collateral damage,

0:41:49.880 --> 0:41:51.120
<v Speaker 1>no regular damage.

0:41:51.480 --> 0:41:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Cool really put the fear of God into those people

0:41:54.960 --> 0:41:56.640
<v Speaker 2>who didn't get hurt.

0:41:57.160 --> 0:42:01.720
<v Speaker 1>Yep. And I would argue that of every major political

0:42:01.760 --> 0:42:04.160
<v Speaker 1>ideology of the last two hundred years. Anarchism probably is

0:42:04.160 --> 0:42:05.880
<v Speaker 1>the least innocent blood on its hands.

0:42:06.120 --> 0:42:09.399
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, in part because we generally don't wind

0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:12.880
<v Speaker 2>up in power. Yeah totally, which is you know, I

0:42:12.880 --> 0:42:16.240
<v Speaker 2>mean is part of the goal. But yeah, yeah totally.

0:42:17.320 --> 0:42:20.160
<v Speaker 2>But the Wall Street bombing is a decent chunk of

0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:21.879
<v Speaker 2>the innocent blood on our hands.

0:42:21.600 --> 0:42:22.600
<v Speaker 1>Of the anatist movement.

0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:23.920
<v Speaker 2>That's a bad one.

0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:28.160
<v Speaker 1>The most likely suspect is an Italian anarchist named Mario Buddha,

0:42:28.840 --> 0:42:32.560
<v Speaker 1>who was actually probably with Sacho when they robbed and

0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:35.680
<v Speaker 1>killed those people in the Sacho and Vanzetti case. Mario

0:42:35.760 --> 0:42:39.279
<v Speaker 1>Budda is like a mystery man in history and there's

0:42:39.280 --> 0:42:40.719
<v Speaker 1>a lot of like takes on him, and he was

0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:43.520
<v Speaker 1>like kind of almost everywhere that like violence was happening.

0:42:45.040 --> 0:42:49.880
<v Speaker 1>Mario Buddha went on to almost certainly become a fascist

0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:56.840
<v Speaker 1>infemant in Italy. Cool, yeah, and almost certainly foil another

0:42:56.920 --> 0:43:00.719
<v Speaker 1>anarchist attempt on Mussolini's life. He is the worst.

0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:03.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're right, that is as shitty as you can

0:43:03.560 --> 0:43:08.919
<v Speaker 2>possibly be as an anarchist militant. I know, honestly, I'm mad.

0:43:09.080 --> 0:43:12.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm mad, but I am a little impressed. Yeah, Like

0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:14.799
<v Speaker 2>if I was making up an anarchist for you to

0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:16.759
<v Speaker 2>get mad at. I couldn't do better than this.

0:43:17.640 --> 0:43:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. After murdering a bunch of kids and shit in

0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:22.080
<v Speaker 1>the name of anarchy, he made his way back to Italy,

0:43:22.120 --> 0:43:23.200
<v Speaker 1>got caught up in the hubbub.

0:43:23.360 --> 0:43:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah it stopped someone from killing Musolini.

0:43:27.040 --> 0:43:32.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Jesus. By nineteen thirty three, it seems likely

0:43:32.080 --> 0:43:34.440
<v Speaker 1>that he is cooperating with police and informing on anarchists,

0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:36.759
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of like people who are really into

0:43:36.800 --> 0:43:39.960
<v Speaker 1>anarchist history are skeptical of this because for a while,

0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:42.440
<v Speaker 1>the only information that anyone had about this was that

0:43:43.120 --> 0:43:46.800
<v Speaker 1>a communist newspaper accused him of this. At the time, yeah,

0:43:46.840 --> 0:43:48.880
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of people, even anarchists listened and were like, oh,

0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:51.160
<v Speaker 1>we don't trust this guy anymore. But other people were like, oh,

0:43:51.200 --> 0:43:54.759
<v Speaker 1>that's the communist plain sectarian politics. And then later you

0:43:54.800 --> 0:43:56.880
<v Speaker 1>can see historians have done the work of being like

0:43:57.280 --> 0:43:59.799
<v Speaker 1>here's where Mario Budo was dropped off the list of

0:43:59.840 --> 0:44:02.560
<v Speaker 1>dangerous anarchists to keep an eye out for, and like

0:44:02.600 --> 0:44:05.440
<v Speaker 1>here's you know, he's basically like the fascist took him

0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:09.640
<v Speaker 1>under their wing. And even if half of what they

0:44:09.640 --> 0:44:12.040
<v Speaker 1>say about Mario Buddha is true. I don't like him

0:44:12.040 --> 0:44:14.040
<v Speaker 1>at all. I don't like blowing up kids on Wall Street.

0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:15.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't like cooperating a fascists, and I don't like

0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:19.439
<v Speaker 1>Foilian an attempt on Musolini's life. Yeah again, I uh yeah really.

0:44:19.480 --> 0:44:22.240
<v Speaker 2>One of my very few lines is you probably should

0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:23.960
<v Speaker 2>don't go don't be killing kids.

0:44:24.680 --> 0:44:25.720
<v Speaker 1>dB kk.

0:44:26.000 --> 0:44:29.080
<v Speaker 2>That's my little like, what would Jesus do? Bracelet in

0:44:29.120 --> 0:44:31.600
<v Speaker 2>case you ever need to kill cat? Yeah, look at

0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:34.840
<v Speaker 2>a bracelet. Oh no, you know what, I shouldn't kill kids?

0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:44:36.800 --> 0:44:38.640
<v Speaker 2>Also, if you need to look at a bracelet to

0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:43.640
<v Speaker 2>remind you not to kill kids, I would. Maybe there's

0:44:43.680 --> 0:44:46.239
<v Speaker 2>a lot of things you probably need to do therapy.

0:44:46.520 --> 0:44:51.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Meanwhile, back to a regular anarchist when I like,

0:44:51.440 --> 0:44:54.880
<v Speaker 1>who doesn't become a fascist? Sure, there's a blacksmith named Umberto.

0:44:54.960 --> 0:44:59.440
<v Speaker 1>I promise you another Mberto Thomasini. Mberto got involved in

0:44:59.480 --> 0:45:02.080
<v Speaker 1>politics when he was thirteen. He joined the nineteen oh

0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:04.160
<v Speaker 1>nine General Strike in response to the murder of the

0:45:04.160 --> 0:45:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Spanish anarchists. Educator and veteran of the Pod francisc Ferrar.

0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:09.600
<v Speaker 1>He went on to fight in World War One. He

0:45:09.640 --> 0:45:13.080
<v Speaker 1>won a Cross for valor, but according to his own take.

0:45:13.120 --> 0:45:14.680
<v Speaker 1>What happened is he got to the war because he

0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:16.960
<v Speaker 1>was conscripted and he just shot into the air and

0:45:17.000 --> 0:45:18.440
<v Speaker 1>he was like trying not to kill anyone.

0:45:19.160 --> 0:45:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, that's actually I mean, there's some evidence, although

0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:25.680
<v Speaker 2>the studies around it have been to a degree, there's

0:45:25.680 --> 0:45:28.280
<v Speaker 2>a lot of critiques about them, but like some evidence

0:45:28.320 --> 0:45:31.880
<v Speaker 2>that that was more the norm than not with combat soldiers.

0:45:32.080 --> 0:45:34.320
<v Speaker 1>And I bet especially when you're talking about like trenches

0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:37.080
<v Speaker 1>and stuff, where you're like, yes, yes, go shoot that

0:45:37.200 --> 0:45:39.560
<v Speaker 1>dot on the horizon, whereas like if someone's like running

0:45:39.600 --> 0:45:42.000
<v Speaker 1>through a trench trying to kill me, I'm like, I'm

0:45:42.000 --> 0:45:44.440
<v Speaker 1>gonna shoot that man, even if we have the same

0:45:44.640 --> 0:45:46.920
<v Speaker 1>political ideology. If I was trying to kill you with that,

0:45:47.120 --> 0:45:50.840
<v Speaker 1>I just don't want to get shot. Yeah, but yeah, no, totally.

0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:54.480
<v Speaker 1>And he he spent some time as a pow during

0:45:54.520 --> 0:45:56.600
<v Speaker 1>the war, and then he returned home to return to

0:45:56.640 --> 0:45:59.760
<v Speaker 1>work as a blacksmith, and he more formally committed to anarchism,

0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:03.080
<v Speaker 1>aside his brothers, who, like all everyone else, they left

0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:05.920
<v Speaker 1>the Socialist Party in nineteen twenty one after the Socialists

0:46:05.920 --> 0:46:09.239
<v Speaker 1>sold out the movement. Again. I don't know as much

0:46:09.280 --> 0:46:11.759
<v Speaker 1>about that, but that is what Umberto felt, and his

0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:15.600
<v Speaker 1>brothers felt. Umberto's life could easily be his own episode.

0:46:15.920 --> 0:46:18.080
<v Speaker 1>He helped get the bombs from one Gino to the

0:46:18.080 --> 0:46:20.719
<v Speaker 1>other Gino in nineteen twenty six, then spent six years

0:46:20.719 --> 0:46:23.840
<v Speaker 1>in prison during the crackdown on it. Like after Musolin

0:46:23.880 --> 0:46:25.200
<v Speaker 1>he came to power, he sent a whole bunch of

0:46:25.200 --> 0:46:29.000
<v Speaker 1>the anarchists to prison. Right during those six years he

0:46:29.080 --> 0:46:33.280
<v Speaker 1>met an anarchist in prison named Mario Buddha. Then Umberto

0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:36.680
<v Speaker 1>fled Italy on foot to Yugoslavia. Then he went to Paris,

0:46:36.880 --> 0:46:39.320
<v Speaker 1>where he met his partner Anna and had his son Renee.

0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:42.680
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen thirty six, Spain was under attack and so

0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:45.600
<v Speaker 1>Umberto left the then safety of Paris to go to

0:46:45.640 --> 0:46:49.880
<v Speaker 1>the front lines teaching anarchists about trench warfare. And then

0:46:49.920 --> 0:46:52.359
<v Speaker 1>he became an anarchist specops guy and he went off

0:46:52.360 --> 0:46:54.320
<v Speaker 1>to go mine franco as ships.

0:46:54.480 --> 0:46:57.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh, cool I is the opposite of the guy who

0:46:57.719 --> 0:46:59.560
<v Speaker 2>just killed children and saved Mussoliti.

0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:03.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, exactly, and he shouldn't have been friends with

0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:07.799
<v Speaker 1>that guy. He was arrested by Stalinists and prevented from

0:47:07.840 --> 0:47:09.719
<v Speaker 1>attacking the fascist while he was off to go mind

0:47:09.760 --> 0:47:13.080
<v Speaker 1>these ships. He broke out of Stalinis's prison, and then

0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:15.319
<v Speaker 1>he returned back to the prison he'd just broken out

0:47:15.320 --> 0:47:19.080
<v Speaker 1>of alongside anarchists from the government to negotiate everyone's release.

0:47:19.440 --> 0:47:23.879
<v Speaker 1>I think this is the same situation as the last man,

0:47:24.000 --> 0:47:27.440
<v Speaker 1>the missile inventor man. But this might have just happened

0:47:27.440 --> 0:47:29.600
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of times, yeah, because I read about these

0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:34.160
<v Speaker 1>in different sources. Then in nineteen thirty seven, he goes

0:47:34.200 --> 0:47:37.080
<v Speaker 1>back to France so he can plot how to kill Mussolini.

0:47:38.280 --> 0:47:41.560
<v Speaker 1>One problem, one of his co conspirators, a man who

0:47:41.640 --> 0:47:45.400
<v Speaker 1>has absolute trust for is Mario Budda, whom he had

0:47:45.440 --> 0:47:49.240
<v Speaker 1>met in prison. Mario leaked the plan to the Italian police,

0:47:49.480 --> 0:47:53.839
<v Speaker 1>who foiled it. After the war, Mario Budda went back

0:47:53.840 --> 0:47:54.880
<v Speaker 1>to the anarchist movement.

0:47:55.040 --> 0:47:59.400
<v Speaker 2>Hooray, great, he sounds trustworthy.

0:47:59.520 --> 0:48:00.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure.

0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, really worked on things.

0:48:03.080 --> 0:48:06.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, don't want to cancel him just for

0:48:07.440 --> 0:48:12.560
<v Speaker 1>saving Mussolini's life and murdering children. I can't find much

0:48:12.560 --> 0:48:16.160
<v Speaker 1>about this particular assassination attempt that he foiled. Mostly I

0:48:16.200 --> 0:48:18.520
<v Speaker 1>found a lot of ins and outs about the informant.

0:48:19.480 --> 0:48:23.120
<v Speaker 1>But to follow umberto he like so many other anarchists

0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:25.680
<v Speaker 1>wound up in a non Nazi concentration camp in France.

0:48:26.080 --> 0:48:28.080
<v Speaker 1>Then he was turned over to the Italian police, where

0:48:28.120 --> 0:48:31.040
<v Speaker 1>he was imprisoned until the end of the war. Finally

0:48:31.080 --> 0:48:33.439
<v Speaker 1>he's freed. He returns to his wife and his son

0:48:33.480 --> 0:48:35.960
<v Speaker 1>and his work as a blacksmith, and to anarchist organizing.

0:48:36.680 --> 0:48:39.400
<v Speaker 1>When the spirit of sixty eight swings through, he starts

0:48:39.480 --> 0:48:43.359
<v Speaker 1>organizing again. He's like about seventy years old, and he's

0:48:43.360 --> 0:48:45.440
<v Speaker 1>like organizing with a bunch of twenty year old kids, right,

0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:47.400
<v Speaker 1>because it's the it's nineteen sixty eight.

0:48:47.760 --> 0:48:50.600
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, that's who there's going to be to organize with.

0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it's Coole as shit. He kept publishing

0:48:53.960 --> 0:48:55.719
<v Speaker 1>shit that would send him back to jail. I think

0:48:55.719 --> 0:48:57.759
<v Speaker 1>he was sent back to jail like multiple times, just

0:48:57.800 --> 0:49:01.520
<v Speaker 1>for continuing to publish anarchist literature. And then he died

0:49:01.560 --> 0:49:04.480
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen eighty. He wrote an autobiography, but I don't

0:49:04.520 --> 0:49:07.160
<v Speaker 1>believe it's been translated, And there's a documentary about him

0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:09.439
<v Speaker 1>called An Anarchist Life from twenty thirteen that I haven't

0:49:09.480 --> 0:49:12.759
<v Speaker 1>seen yet that I want to see. And he was

0:49:12.800 --> 0:49:15.360
<v Speaker 1>real cool, but I don't know what he did to

0:49:15.400 --> 0:49:17.239
<v Speaker 1>try and kill Mussolini. I just know he made the

0:49:17.239 --> 0:49:17.840
<v Speaker 1>wrong friend.

0:49:18.680 --> 0:49:20.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well we all do sometimes.

0:49:20.840 --> 0:49:21.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:49:21.080 --> 0:49:23.840
<v Speaker 2>For example, I mean there was one summer that Benita

0:49:23.880 --> 0:49:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Mussolini and I were inseparable. I mean we would spend

0:49:26.760 --> 0:49:30.080
<v Speaker 2>just hours on the beach, telling each other's secrets, having

0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:34.000
<v Speaker 2>pig nicks. You know. There was that one wine drenched night,

0:49:34.160 --> 0:49:36.759
<v Speaker 2>and then I found out he'd been the dictator of

0:49:36.840 --> 0:49:39.680
<v Speaker 2>Italy this whole time. I had no idea, Margaret, I

0:49:39.680 --> 0:49:41.120
<v Speaker 2>had no idea.

0:49:40.920 --> 0:49:43.839
<v Speaker 1>I know. I mean, what's funny is that pre him

0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:46.719
<v Speaker 1>becoming Mussolini. That is the story that a lot of

0:49:46.760 --> 0:49:50.879
<v Speaker 1>people tell. People do have that story, like the woman Lita,

0:49:50.920 --> 0:49:53.040
<v Speaker 1>who is probably his lover, who is an anarchist, who

0:49:53.280 --> 0:49:56.400
<v Speaker 1>was like later she was like I misjudged his character.

0:49:57.560 --> 0:50:02.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, Yeah, he booms amongst us. Hasn't been friends

0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:04.800
<v Speaker 1>with the inventor of fascism?

0:50:05.080 --> 0:50:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Well Cohen, I mean, let's we've got there was another

0:50:08.520 --> 0:50:10.880
<v Speaker 2>Italian who might deserve that title a little more. But

0:50:11.680 --> 0:50:15.319
<v Speaker 2>we talked about him on Behind the Bastards. Wait which one, Oh,

0:50:15.360 --> 0:50:17.920
<v Speaker 2>the guy who wore a banana hammock one sec.

0:50:17.800 --> 0:50:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Wait, what does he invent the banana Hammick. No, no, no,

0:50:22.280 --> 0:50:24.040
<v Speaker 1>but he uh, I don't.

0:50:23.880 --> 0:50:25.239
<v Speaker 2>Remember this person's name either.

0:50:25.680 --> 0:50:27.160
<v Speaker 1>We definitely talked about it though.

0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Gabriel Banunzio, Yes, Gabriel Danunzio, who was a big influence

0:50:33.360 --> 0:50:38.160
<v Speaker 2>on Mussolini and was like is often credited as the

0:50:38.200 --> 0:50:42.719
<v Speaker 2>inventor of fascism. He never called himself a fascist. He's

0:50:42.760 --> 0:50:46.080
<v Speaker 2>like partially right, there's not just one guy, but he

0:50:46.480 --> 0:50:49.800
<v Speaker 2>is earlier in the chain of the development of fascist

0:50:49.800 --> 0:50:53.640
<v Speaker 2>mess a concept than Mussolini and an influence on Benito. Yeah.

0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh h yeah, Gabriel Dnunzio. You can listen to our

0:50:56.200 --> 0:50:58.560
<v Speaker 2>two parter on him, very much worth it. He is

0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:00.600
<v Speaker 2>the guy who in fume as an in dependent city.

0:51:00.640 --> 0:51:02.880
<v Speaker 2>He's a guy who marches into fume and takes it

0:51:02.960 --> 0:51:06.799
<v Speaker 2>over as like, oh, along with a bunch of there

0:51:06.800 --> 0:51:10.400
<v Speaker 2>were anarchists and communists and fascists all kind of together

0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:13.719
<v Speaker 2>because they were all very much anti just all of

0:51:13.719 --> 0:51:16.160
<v Speaker 2>the things that are going on right now, but those

0:51:16.200 --> 0:51:20.120
<v Speaker 2>ideologies hadn't really hardened into the in the concrete way

0:51:20.160 --> 0:51:23.319
<v Speaker 2>they would a couple of years later. Fascinating time, kind

0:51:23.360 --> 0:51:25.839
<v Speaker 2>of like how a lot of our most prominent right

0:51:25.840 --> 0:51:28.160
<v Speaker 2>wing fas a lot of them are prominent fascist media

0:51:28.239 --> 0:51:31.080
<v Speaker 2>ideologues today. Were part of occupy.

0:51:31.640 --> 0:51:35.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, God, Actually the occupy versus fume thing is actually

0:51:36.040 --> 0:51:38.640
<v Speaker 1>makes a lot of really specific sense. That's the thing

0:51:38.680 --> 0:51:40.799
<v Speaker 1>that's like it's so hard to talk about, is that

0:51:41.320 --> 0:51:44.239
<v Speaker 1>in a certain way, fascism is the red Brown alliance

0:51:44.680 --> 0:51:48.880
<v Speaker 1>because it is taking ideas from leftism but applying into

0:51:48.960 --> 0:51:50.280
<v Speaker 1>right wing ideology.

0:51:50.880 --> 0:51:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:51:52.480 --> 0:51:55.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, two more people at least tried to kill Mussolini.

0:51:56.680 --> 0:51:59.640
<v Speaker 1>One of them don't know much about. Isn't even on

0:51:59.680 --> 0:52:02.560
<v Speaker 1>the list of people who tried to kill Mussolini Wikipedia.

0:52:03.239 --> 0:52:07.400
<v Speaker 1>His name is Domenico Bavone and he was a Republican.

0:52:07.440 --> 0:52:10.520
<v Speaker 1>He's the republican on our list. He tried to build

0:52:10.560 --> 0:52:13.319
<v Speaker 1>bombs to kill Mussolini, but he didn't go to the

0:52:13.360 --> 0:52:16.319
<v Speaker 1>bomb making workshop for the punk show Flyer told him

0:52:16.320 --> 0:52:17.239
<v Speaker 1>about in Brussels.

0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:18.480
<v Speaker 2>That's a shame.

0:52:18.640 --> 0:52:21.799
<v Speaker 1>So he failed at making the bombs properly, and he

0:52:21.840 --> 0:52:24.239
<v Speaker 1>blew up his own house on September fifth, nineteen thirty one,

0:52:24.320 --> 0:52:25.120
<v Speaker 1>killing his own mother.

0:52:25.680 --> 0:52:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, bad job, bro, that's about That's about his bad

0:52:29.160 --> 0:52:33.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and again, don't build bombs. There are so many.

0:52:33.239 --> 0:52:37.240
<v Speaker 2>By far, the most normal story in what political radical

0:52:37.320 --> 0:52:40.799
<v Speaker 2>tries to make a bomb? Is political radical kills themselves,

0:52:40.800 --> 0:52:42.080
<v Speaker 2>their friends or their family.

0:52:42.520 --> 0:52:48.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, don't make bombs. Yeah, they're very indiscriminate. And

0:52:48.360 --> 0:52:52.360
<v Speaker 1>under interrogation he admitted he was trying to kill Mussolini

0:52:52.840 --> 0:52:55.000
<v Speaker 1>and he was shot in the back by a firing squad.

0:52:56.320 --> 0:53:03.360
<v Speaker 1>And then there is Angelo Pellegrono Sabbard Aletto. Angelo was

0:53:03.400 --> 0:53:06.239
<v Speaker 1>born in nineteen oh seven in mel Italy, and he

0:53:06.280 --> 0:53:08.520
<v Speaker 1>was the fifth of eleven children, which means I do

0:53:08.560 --> 0:53:10.440
<v Speaker 1>not need to tell you he was from a Catholic family,

0:53:10.600 --> 0:53:14.319
<v Speaker 1>but he was. His family was poor as hell. The

0:53:14.440 --> 0:53:16.880
<v Speaker 1>article I read specifically indicated they were poor as hell

0:53:16.880 --> 0:53:19.880
<v Speaker 1>because they had eleven children. But you know, whatever you do,

0:53:19.960 --> 0:53:21.839
<v Speaker 1>you people can make their own decisions on how many

0:53:21.880 --> 0:53:25.759
<v Speaker 1>kids to have. They fled poverty to France, then Luxembourg,

0:53:25.800 --> 0:53:29.800
<v Speaker 1>then Belgium. Angelo was a miner and a machine hand.

0:53:30.040 --> 0:53:32.680
<v Speaker 1>He became an anarchist as a teenager, talking to other

0:53:32.719 --> 0:53:36.560
<v Speaker 1>immigrant workers who were mostly political refugees. Soon enough he

0:53:36.640 --> 0:53:39.959
<v Speaker 1>was on lists of dangerous extremists and draft dodgers and shit.

0:53:41.000 --> 0:53:44.040
<v Speaker 1>And he was inspired by Mikelo Sheirou and he met

0:53:44.600 --> 0:53:48.279
<v Speaker 1>almost the exact same fate. In nineteen thirty two, he

0:53:48.320 --> 0:53:51.880
<v Speaker 1>went to Rome to kill Mussolini, but like maclay before him,

0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:54.400
<v Speaker 1>he couldn't find a moment when he could bomb Mussolini

0:53:54.400 --> 0:53:59.160
<v Speaker 1>without hurting anyone else. He spent months trying, just bought

0:53:59.200 --> 0:54:00.919
<v Speaker 1>a gun and should have bought a gun.

0:54:02.880 --> 0:54:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean whatever, I don't know how hard it was

0:54:04.880 --> 0:54:09.840
<v Speaker 2>to buy guns in Mussolini's Italy, fair enough, Yeah.

0:54:08.880 --> 0:54:12.759
<v Speaker 1>But you know, he spent months trying, and he was

0:54:12.760 --> 0:54:15.080
<v Speaker 1>on the verge of giving up when, like mcklay, he

0:54:15.120 --> 0:54:18.920
<v Speaker 1>was arrested seemingly by happenstance on a train station, just

0:54:18.920 --> 0:54:21.160
<v Speaker 1>like some cops were like, Eh, you're suspicious, We're going

0:54:21.239 --> 0:54:25.560
<v Speaker 1>to search you. Which is you know, fascism. Also, the

0:54:25.600 --> 0:54:27.560
<v Speaker 1>same thing happens in New York City subways, but you

0:54:27.600 --> 0:54:31.480
<v Speaker 1>know whatever. Yeah, when he was searched, he had a

0:54:31.480 --> 0:54:34.560
<v Speaker 1>Swiss passport, a pistol. Oh, he had a fucking gun.

0:54:35.880 --> 0:54:41.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, I guess not that hard, yeah, question answered yeah,

0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:44.760
<v Speaker 2>and two bombs and he was tortured, and under torture

0:54:44.800 --> 0:54:46.840
<v Speaker 2>he said he was there to avenge mckelay Shiro.

0:54:48.320 --> 0:54:51.280
<v Speaker 1>He'd written a letter previously that year that said, quote,

0:54:52.239 --> 0:54:55.400
<v Speaker 1>I have no choice to be free. Tyranny must be beaten.

0:54:55.800 --> 0:54:57.920
<v Speaker 1>To build tomorrow a new order in which all can

0:54:58.000 --> 0:55:00.800
<v Speaker 1>enjoy the fruits of their labor and freely express their thoughts.

0:55:01.280 --> 0:55:05.080
<v Speaker 1>We must destroy today all the injustices which render this impossible.

0:55:06.480 --> 0:55:09.240
<v Speaker 1>His trial was a show trial. It was two days long.

0:55:09.560 --> 0:55:12.600
<v Speaker 1>Journalists decried him as surly and sinister and would like

0:55:12.680 --> 0:55:14.920
<v Speaker 1>literally make stuff up about how he looked. They were

0:55:14.920 --> 0:55:19.120
<v Speaker 1>like he had a low forehead, you know, which he didn't.

0:55:19.280 --> 0:55:23.040
<v Speaker 1>But even if he did, fuck you, you know. His

0:55:23.120 --> 0:55:26.000
<v Speaker 1>lawyer asked him to write Mussolini for clemency. He refused.

0:55:26.040 --> 0:55:28.040
<v Speaker 1>He shouted long Live anarchy when he was shot in

0:55:28.080 --> 0:55:31.960
<v Speaker 1>the back. After he was killed, the Fascist government decided

0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:35.560
<v Speaker 1>to hide forever his burial site. No one knows where

0:55:35.600 --> 0:55:40.040
<v Speaker 1>his body is. A biographer for Mussolini said that he

0:55:40.080 --> 0:55:43.120
<v Speaker 1>would have pardoned the anarchists if they had asked, because

0:55:43.120 --> 0:55:46.400
<v Speaker 1>he lauded their courage. I mean, considering a lot of

0:55:46.400 --> 0:55:49.640
<v Speaker 1>his fucking people were former anarchists. Yep, I don't know.

0:55:50.280 --> 0:55:54.040
<v Speaker 1>Maybe you would have, but fuck that, I mean whatever.

0:55:54.040 --> 0:55:56.160
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't be mad if anyone was like, oh, please

0:55:56.200 --> 0:55:58.440
<v Speaker 1>don't kill me, mister Missolini. At whatever, I would be

0:55:58.480 --> 0:55:59.640
<v Speaker 1>like you weakling.

0:55:59.600 --> 0:56:04.839
<v Speaker 2>Give uh yeah Mussolini, I hardly know. Ye, yeah, did

0:56:04.880 --> 0:56:06.839
<v Speaker 2>I already do that joke? It just occurred to me.

0:56:09.800 --> 0:56:12.680
<v Speaker 1>So yeah. Originally I was going to talk about the

0:56:12.680 --> 0:56:14.879
<v Speaker 1>Partisans who finally did him in, but I think we've

0:56:14.920 --> 0:56:18.520
<v Speaker 1>covered a lot of trying to kill Mussolini. There are

0:56:18.560 --> 0:56:20.279
<v Speaker 1>too many cool people I didn't want to skim pass.

0:56:20.320 --> 0:56:22.520
<v Speaker 1>You got a Socialist, a Catholic, or Republican, at least

0:56:22.560 --> 0:56:24.640
<v Speaker 1>five anarchists who tried to do him in, but it

0:56:24.680 --> 0:56:27.759
<v Speaker 1>took a whole ass war. We got him in the end, though, And.

0:56:27.760 --> 0:56:30.080
<v Speaker 2>You know what, folks, what I'll say right now is

0:56:30.400 --> 0:56:33.080
<v Speaker 2>you can still try to take a shot at Mussolini,

0:56:33.080 --> 0:56:35.000
<v Speaker 2>and he's a lot easier to hit now. I assume

0:56:35.040 --> 0:56:36.120
<v Speaker 2>he's buried somewhere.

0:56:36.760 --> 0:56:40.120
<v Speaker 1>Probably I feel like, yeah, go dig him up, yeah

0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:43.879
<v Speaker 1>and take a shot. Take a shot. Yeah I had

0:56:43.960 --> 0:56:47.560
<v Speaker 1>have miss that way. Yeah, gender neutral shooting range, that's

0:56:47.560 --> 0:56:51.120
<v Speaker 1>what they say, take a shot with.

0:56:51.280 --> 0:56:54.319
<v Speaker 2>You know, it could just be with the tool that

0:56:54.360 --> 0:56:57.840
<v Speaker 2>you have on hand, so to speak. That was a

0:56:57.880 --> 0:56:58.600
<v Speaker 2>penis joke.

0:56:59.360 --> 0:57:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we know. I could have been a p joke

0:57:02.040 --> 0:57:03.719
<v Speaker 1>because you can have a tool on hand without a

0:57:03.719 --> 0:57:04.680
<v Speaker 1>penis You're right.

0:57:04.520 --> 0:57:06.719
<v Speaker 2>You could use you can use a shi wi for example.

0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:08.600
<v Speaker 2>You know there's all sorts of grat or just you

0:57:08.680 --> 0:57:11.520
<v Speaker 2>cut the bottom of a water bottle out and then

0:57:11.600 --> 0:57:13.799
<v Speaker 2>like cut the top to widen it and you kind

0:57:13.800 --> 0:57:14.719
<v Speaker 2>of jam it in there.

0:57:15.200 --> 0:57:18.000
<v Speaker 1>It sort of works. And I can't believe that's the

0:57:18.040 --> 0:57:21.040
<v Speaker 1>note we're ending on, but that's where we're at. Everyone, Uh,

0:57:21.880 --> 0:57:24.680
<v Speaker 1>go kill Mussolini, but only Mussolini.

0:57:24.760 --> 0:57:27.800
<v Speaker 2>We're talking about the past, yes, only in the past.

0:57:28.520 --> 0:57:30.520
<v Speaker 1>And if you want to know more about the knock

0:57:30.600 --> 0:57:32.960
<v Speaker 1>on effects of various types of violence, listen to this

0:57:33.160 --> 0:57:36.320
<v Speaker 1>entire show's history because it is full of knock on effects,

0:57:36.480 --> 0:57:37.520
<v Speaker 1>many of which are negative.

0:57:37.720 --> 0:57:39.840
<v Speaker 2>And in terms of things I will continue to say

0:57:39.840 --> 0:57:41.640
<v Speaker 2>for the modern era, don't make bombs.

0:57:42.640 --> 0:57:50.840
<v Speaker 1>Don't make bombs. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is

0:57:50.880 --> 0:57:52.520
<v Speaker 1>a production of cool Zone Media.

0:57:52.840 --> 0:57:55.720
<v Speaker 2>For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website

0:57:55.800 --> 0:57:58.480
<v Speaker 2>Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

0:57:58.600 --> 0:58:02.360
<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio app, podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.