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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, Hello, and welcome to cool people who

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Speaker 1: did cool stuff. You're a weekly reminder that when there's

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Speaker 1: bad things happening, people try to confront those bad things

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Speaker 1: in various ways, lots of various ways. One of the way,

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Speaker 1: not just a person. One of the people who's also

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Speaker 1: on this podcast with me is Robert Evans, my guest.

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Speaker 2: Hi, that's right, I'm Robert Evans, and uh, I'm Robert Evans.

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Speaker 1: That's me. Well, I brought you on because you're an

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Speaker 1: expert about Italy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I know several things about Italians, Margaret

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Speaker 2: number one, number two.

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Speaker 1: Spice, here's where we Italian.

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Speaker 2: Whatever the hat is that they that the that the

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Speaker 2: chefs wear in those kind of racist caricatures. Look, it's fine.

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Speaker 2: We all decided that it's okay with Italians now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, despite the huge trial that we talked about last

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Speaker 1: time about anti ty and prejudice in the United States.

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Speaker 2: Look, if they'd been I have the opposite position of

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Speaker 2: that guy. I'm fine with the murder. If they'd been

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Speaker 2: on trial for being Italian, I would have said, fucking yeah,

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Speaker 2: hanging you know, yeah exactly, hang am I.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe upside down maybe, Uh, that's a dead Mussolini joke,

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Speaker 1: which is which is gonna happen in today's episode. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people are gonna try. Give the old college try.

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Speaker 1: Our producer is Sophie. Hi, Sophie, it's me. I'm Sophie High.

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Speaker 1: I realized when I got my podcast you listened to

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Speaker 1: the most in twenty twenty four that four of them

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Speaker 1: were Sophie podcasts. The loyalties unmatched, unmatched.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: I'm a little bit surprised that that not all five were.

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Speaker 1: But I think the problem was that the Pathfinder podcast

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Speaker 1: I listened to is really long. Episode need one raised

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Speaker 1: like five? Yeah, you need one break for me?

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Speaker 2: We should do a Pathfinder podcast, Margaret.

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Speaker 1: I would love to do a live play podcast.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'll reach out to the guy who created Pathfinder

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Speaker 2: and listens to our podcasts talk to him about that.

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Speaker 1: I would love that guy who created Pathfinder. Y'all are

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Speaker 1: great and your system rules and I play it anyway.

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Speaker 1: So but yeah, no, cools on media needs a live

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Speaker 1: play podcast, That's all I'm saying. And if you listener agree,

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Speaker 1: bug these people on the internet about it. And then,

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Speaker 1: because I needed more podcasts to be on whatever, I

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Speaker 1: don't care.

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Speaker 2: There's a shortage of podcasts. I don't know if you're

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Speaker 2: aware of this. Yeah, but the CDC has said that

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Speaker 2: it's probably the largest threat to our national collective health.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's the only thing that they're trying to put

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Speaker 1: a tariff on that everyone's in favor of, is that

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Speaker 1: they're trying to make it harder for people to make podcasts.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. All podcast mics, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: that actually is good. Most of the podcast mics are

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Speaker 1: probably not made in the US. Whatever I got mine,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea where they make our microphones. Margaret, No, no,

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Speaker 2: I do not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, this is part two on a two part

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Speaker 1: episode about people trying to kill Mussolini. Later, we'll probably

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Speaker 1: talk about the people who've succeeded. It took a whole war,

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Speaker 1: but some people tried to just cut to the chase

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Speaker 1: and circumvent the need for the war. And we've already

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Speaker 1: mentioned several of them, but we're going to talk a

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Speaker 1: lot more of them today. First, we're gonna talk about Rory,

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Speaker 1: who's our audio engineer. Hi Rory, Hi, right, Hy Rory,

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Speaker 1: And that our theme musical was written force by unwoman,

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Speaker 1: and that Gino Lucetti was born working class in the

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Speaker 1: year nineteen hundred in Karra, Tuscany. You ever heard of Carra.

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Speaker 2: I've heard of Tuscany because the Tuscan coast is pretty famous.

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Speaker 2: I've never heard of Carra other than that. It makes

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Speaker 2: me think of that song that goes Tara Ra boom da,

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Speaker 2: which I don't know what that's a reference to.

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Speaker 1: Is that a slur? I have no idea.

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Speaker 2: I should probably look into that song see if there

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Speaker 2: was anything fucked up. It's like celebrating a genocide. That's

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Speaker 2: often the case with old songs. What a lovely tune?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, Well, Carrara is famous for two things.

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Speaker 1: It is famous for its marble quarries. It produces some

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Speaker 1: of the finest marble from which the most iconic buildings

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Speaker 1: and statues in the world are made. There's a whole

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Speaker 1: list of them, and I forgot to write them down.

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Speaker 1: But like, think of an old Italian statue from Rome,

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Speaker 1: Old Rome, and the marble might have come from Carrara.

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Speaker 1: It has like blue veins. I spent way too long

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Speaker 1: reading about this marble.

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Speaker 2: It's good ass marble. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The other thing the Carrara is famous for is anarchism.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay.

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Speaker 1: When my anarchist friends took me through Italy, when we

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Speaker 1: were near Carrara, they pointed out and they were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: that's that place was an anarchist stronghold for a long

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Speaker 1: long time among the Stonemas, and who put that town

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Speaker 1: on the map enough so that I was like double

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Speaker 1: checking this today. I was like, Carrara, that sounds familiar, right,

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Speaker 1: And I was looking at a mainstream tour company's website,

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Speaker 1: Carrara Marble Tour, and they offer an anarchic Carra tour.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, really double dipping? Yeah, I mean, and that's

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Speaker 2: you know, because there's so many it's like you and

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Speaker 2: I always say, Margaret, with so many anarchistsinnar audience, you know,

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Speaker 2: every there's nothing that goes together like anarchism and marble quarries. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: two great tastes that taste great together.

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Speaker 1: You know. That's why.

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Speaker 2: By the way, let's have a word for our sponsor,

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Speaker 2: Big Marble Marble. Maybe we could use it again for

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Speaker 2: some stuff.

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Speaker 1: Marble. One time a statute of limitations ago, I had

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Speaker 1: to empty all the marbles out of my pocket before

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Speaker 1: a mass arrest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, marble, if you use it to make all of

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Speaker 2: your streets and sidewalks like they do in Greece, it

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Speaker 2: makes things incredibly treacherous in the rain, actually horrible, horrible.

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Speaker 1: Material to use the way that they use it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it's pretty though. Yeah. Years and years ago, my

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Speaker 1: dad told me this spooky story that he wrote called

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Speaker 1: the thirty seven Marble Steps, and I was like a kid,

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Speaker 1: so I was just assuming that these were steps with

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Speaker 1: marbles embedded in them. But Gina Lucetti was from Carrara

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Speaker 1: in the early nineteen twenties. There are factory occupations all

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Speaker 1: over Italy. I don't know enough about these yet, but

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Speaker 1: they've come up a bunch of times, and they'll probably

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Speaker 1: be one of their own episodes at one of these points.

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Speaker 1: And I know that in the end of these factory occupations,

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Speaker 1: the socialist parties kind of gave up and gave power

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Speaker 1: back to the bosses, which made an awful lot more

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Speaker 1: anarchists from those socialists who you know, had just seized

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Speaker 1: the means of production and were like, but isn't this

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Speaker 1: our goal. Isn't our goal that the workers control the

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Speaker 1: means of production? Why would we give them back. I

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Speaker 1: don't know enough about the ins and nights out of

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Speaker 1: that struggle, but a lot of people were mad. Gina

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Speaker 1: Lucetti was at these occupations and somewhere along the way

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Speaker 1: he got into a gunfight with the black Shirts. He

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Speaker 1: got a guy in the ear who got him in

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Speaker 1: the neck in return. And okay, this second time we've

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Speaker 1: had an anti fascist get it in the neck and

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Speaker 1: survive on the show. The other one was George Orwell.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's uh. I mean, I'm not gonna say

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Speaker 2: but that that's very lucky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Don't get shot in the neck.

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Speaker 2: The neck is very low on the number of places

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Speaker 2: in your body you would want to get shot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not a good tourniquet spot. It turns out.

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Speaker 2: Hard to turniqit and neck unless you're Google AI, which

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Speaker 2: has told me repeatedly that you can turnikate the neck.

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Speaker 2: Hell yeah, that's just a hanging, folks. You're just strangling

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Speaker 2: someone to death. Oh my god, don't turniquit next.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems self evident, but an AI is not

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Speaker 1: does not have our best interests in heart.

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Speaker 2: No, it just sees well, there's fucking there's fucking arteries there.

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Speaker 1: Turn it, get away. Yeah, yeah, it detaches a limb.

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Speaker 1: If a head is a limb, the appendage, I don't

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Speaker 1: know whatever. Whatever a head is anatomically, I guess it's

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Speaker 1: a head. So he couldn't find a doctor in Italy

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Speaker 1: to get the bullet out. I do not know why.

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Speaker 1: So Comrades smuggled him to France, where he was finally treated,

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Speaker 1: and he was like, you know what, I don't need

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Speaker 1: to be in Italy right now. They are in the

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Speaker 1: middle of a fascism and I am in the middle

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Speaker 1: of just got shot in the neck by a fascist. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There was a large political refugee scene in France at

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Speaker 1: the time. Anarchists, socialists and communists had formed a popular

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Speaker 1: front against fascism there, not only just in general in France,

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Speaker 1: but like specifically the Italian refugees had. They were like,

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Speaker 1: all right, look all that stuff going on in Russia,

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Speaker 1: we're all mad at each other, but right now Italy

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Speaker 1: is being taken over by fascists. We got to do

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Speaker 1: something about that, right, And they all agreed what needed

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Speaker 1: to be done was kilmusse. And this action was intended

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Speaker 1: to be anything but a propaganda of the deed action,

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Speaker 1: which is I think actually a really important point for

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Speaker 1: kind of what we were ended on talking about last week. Right.

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Speaker 1: As a libcom dot org article put it, quote, propaganda

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Speaker 1: of the deed attacks were supposed to inspire the working

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Speaker 1: classes to rise, and in this they were entirely unsuccessful.

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Speaker 1: In this instance, however, the urge to kill Mussolini was

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Speaker 1: the expression of a convergence of opinion among many popularly

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Speaker 1: representative political groupings and was commonly perceived as a necessity

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Speaker 1: at that point in time. So it wasn't like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna spur on the revolution and radicalize people by

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Speaker 1: showing them that, you know, our opponents are made of

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Speaker 1: flesh and blood. It was like, no, Mussolini is basically

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Speaker 1: the enemy war leader that we're in a war against.

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Speaker 1: You know, one word that has never been successfully applied

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Speaker 1: to anarchists is cowardice. Gino agreed to do the deed.

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Speaker 2: And I mean it's the thing that you come across

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Speaker 2: over and over again when you read about like militant

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Speaker 2: movements and like civil wars and where there are anarchist groups,

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Speaker 2: is that the anarchists are always very brave. Not always

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Speaker 2: the best fighters, yeah, but always very brave.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And specifically other groups like putting us in the front. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that's an aspect of it. Yeah. I remember when

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Speaker 1: I first became an anarchist. I was like just going

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Speaker 1: to protest and things twenty seven years ago, and my

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Speaker 1: roommate in college was like, you anarchists, You're just the

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Speaker 1: berserkers of the protest movement. People just throw you in

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Speaker 1: the front to like soak up off the damage. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, he was a little bit right,

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Speaker 1: at least in terms of how people perceive us and

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Speaker 1: use us. So of course, when they're like, who's going

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Speaker 1: to go risk their life to go do this, an

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Speaker 1: anarchists volunteered and twice he returned to Italy to meet

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Speaker 1: with comrades there to plan the assassination. And they met

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Speaker 1: aboard a ship at sea, which is esthetic as fuck

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Speaker 1: off the Tuscany coast, and this time there were no

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Speaker 1: informants among them. He had several co conspirators worth mentioning.

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Speaker 1: Stefano Vadieroni was an anarchist tinsmith from Rome who was

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Speaker 1: the secretary of the library. The fucking librarian was in

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Speaker 1: on this assassination. The secretary of Mussolini's library supplied all

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Speaker 1: of the details including Mussolini's routes by car. Vaderoni funded

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Speaker 1: the thing by selling his family's land near Carrara. Another anarchist,

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Speaker 1: Leandro Sorrio, was a waiter who was planning to finance

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Speaker 1: the group's escape from the country. But then they all decided. Basically,

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Speaker 1: they were like, well, we're actually just all going to

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Speaker 1: get arrested in stand trial. There you go, we want

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Speaker 1: to make a statement. Maltesta, the anarchist guy who's old

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Speaker 1: at this point, was briefed on the plan and signed

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Speaker 1: off on. So this wasn't a like spur of the

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Speaker 1: moment attack. This was a you know, huge conspiracy across

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Speaker 1: borders to try and kill this guy. Our Mangino went

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Speaker 1: back to Italy and he went to Rome. He waited

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Speaker 1: for Mussolini's car and then he threw a pineapple grenade

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Speaker 1: at it. The grenade had been made by his cousin,

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Speaker 1: and he threw it into the windshield. Famously, grenades are

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Speaker 1: on timers, not like pressure sensitive. They like don't explode

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Speaker 1: on impact, no, because.

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Speaker 2: That would be very dangerous. Margaret, I have I told

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Speaker 2: you the story about the Iraqi soldier. We're behind this

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Speaker 2: berm embedded with this unit. Of the Iraqi federal police

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Speaker 2: that are in this very active gunfight with some Isis guys.

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Speaker 2: But they're also kind of showing off because like I'm there,

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Speaker 2: and my photographer's there with the camera.

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Speaker 1: And so I put the dudes.

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Speaker 2: One of the dudes clips into the buttons of his

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Speaker 2: like button up shirt, a grenade over each button. He

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Speaker 2: like sticks the little handle arm of the grenade around

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Speaker 2: and he like runs up and he like fires, and

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Speaker 2: then he leans over to pick up a magazine that's

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Speaker 2: like lying behind the berm, and all of the grenades

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Speaker 2: fall off of his shirt and roll down directly towards me.

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Speaker 1: So thankfully they're not set off by impact. Yeah, fair enough.

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Speaker 1: In this case, it didn't get through the windshield. This

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Speaker 1: is the guy who should have brought a rock. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if Violet Gibson was right, you need to get through

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Speaker 1: the windshield. The grenade bounced a few meters away and exploded.

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Speaker 1: Mussolini's bodyguards caught up with Gino and beat the shit

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Speaker 1: out of him.

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Speaker 2: That sounds about right, Yeah, And.

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Speaker 1: When they arrested him, they found him with a second bomb,

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Speaker 1: a handgun with six hollow points poisoned with muriatic acid,

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Speaker 1: which I don't know anything about.

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Speaker 2: And a dagger isn't myriadic acid the thing in like.

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Speaker 1: Swimming pools, isn't that chlorine? No?

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Speaker 2: No, I mean I think you have mriadic acid for

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Speaker 2: swimming pools too. I remember I've seen like jars one sec.

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Speaker 1: I actually didn't want to google this today. That's what

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Speaker 1: happened to me today is I was like, I wonder

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Speaker 1: what this stuff is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you use mriadic acid to lower like

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Speaker 2: pH in your pool. It's like, I'll let like a shit.

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Speaker 2: Millions of Americans have this shit and like their shed.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I have no idea why you would. I

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Speaker 1: either he was being really extra or like.

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Speaker 2: Or he just thought it and he might have thought

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Speaker 2: it was more sketchy than it was. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like this one's his acid, you know, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when it's really no, I don't know, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know much about it other than that I

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Speaker 2: know I've seen it in people's like backyards because they

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Speaker 2: have pools.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And also like there's so much mythbuilding, both positively

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Speaker 1: and negative about all of these things, you know, so

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Speaker 1: it could have been like oh, he had a dagger

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Speaker 1: and muriatic acid. It actually used the word dumb dumb

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Speaker 1: bullets instead of hollow points, because that's what they called him,

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Speaker 1: a round that expands at the time. You know. So

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Speaker 1: he's tortured, he gives a false name and location, and

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Speaker 1: eventually they get the truth out of him. Lucetti was

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Speaker 1: given thirty years in prison, the waiter got twenty years,

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Speaker 1: and the tin smith got nineteen years and nine months.

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Speaker 1: Thirty years is the mac anyone's allowed to be given

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Speaker 1: in Italy at the time, which again more I mean

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Speaker 1: later they're going to start killing people. But yeah, for

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Speaker 1: three years Lucetti was in solitary and had only a

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Speaker 1: sparrow that would visit at the window for company.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, sure, yeah, his best friend, the sparrow. I

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Speaker 2: mean that's sweet, actually, I know. I bet he was

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Speaker 2: giving it some of his like very very rare bread

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Speaker 2: that he didn't have a whole lot of because he

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Speaker 2: was a nice man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he lived off of I think is just literally

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Speaker 1: soup and bread, and that sounds about right. He died

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Speaker 1: after seventeen years in prison in nineteen forty three. He

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Speaker 1: died during a US air raid. Some claim that he

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Speaker 1: was killed by the shelling, but the man who identified

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Speaker 1: the body said that he had been killed by the

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Speaker 1: occupying Germans during the raid. The Italian Communists tried to

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Speaker 1: claim his legacy. They published that one of his fellow

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Speaker 1: inmates claimed he had become a communist in his later years,

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Speaker 1: but his brother and his fiancee, who kept visiting him

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Speaker 1: until the end of his days, deny this adamantly. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, he was an anarchist. He died an anarchist.

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Speaker 1: During the partisan reclamation of Italy, two different anarchist battalions

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Speaker 1: named themselves after Gino Lucetti. Each was about sixty fighters.

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Speaker 1: I believe, both men and women. I know one of

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Speaker 1: the other anarchist battalions I'm going to talk about later

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Speaker 1: was both men and women, and they helped rid Italy

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Speaker 1: of fascism. So he won in a way after his death.

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Speaker 1: And that is all most of us can hope for.

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Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, definitely. I mean in the long run,

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Speaker 2: it's all any of us can hope for, right because,

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Speaker 2: as we've seen, every struggle worth fighting occurs over a

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Speaker 2: long time frame.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. As for the man who made the bomb,

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Speaker 1: that's a different story. About another Geno because his cousin's

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Speaker 1: name was also Gino. And I want to tell you

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Speaker 1: about that story. But did you know what I want

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Speaker 1: to tell you about? More? Uh?

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Speaker 2: Products?

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Speaker 1: I love products.

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Speaker 2: Services. Maybe I don't know if you'd ever if there'd

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Speaker 2: ever be a service on here.

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Speaker 1: I do like a good service.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, okay, fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, yeah, whatever whatever they pay me to talk about,

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Speaker 1: or whatever they pay someone else to talk about in

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Speaker 1: an insert into my podcast. All right, I'm really excited

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Speaker 1: about here, and we're back.

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Speaker 2: We are.

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Speaker 1: Gina Lucetti had a cousin, Gino Bibby, very serious country.

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Speaker 2: As you said, Yes, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Gino Bibby was from a more middle class background. His

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Speaker 1: father owned a sawmill. Gino Bibby. Did you know what

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Speaker 1: anarchists invented? The missile?

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Speaker 2: No? Was he like a scientist being forced to do

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Speaker 2: stuff by the not So I'm gonna get to it.

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Speaker 2: You know what, that's got to be one of the

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Speaker 2: top anarchism fails.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it didn't work out well in the end. I

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Speaker 1: would say missiles.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's definitely some anarchists, you know, in anarchist

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Speaker 2: related groups that have used missiles and are using them

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Speaker 2: right now. But uh boy, howdie, it's a general rule,

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Speaker 2: not a tool that has reduced state power.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, that's an L.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: It's big L for us. And if you google, I'll

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Speaker 1: talk about a little bit more later when he actually

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Speaker 1: does the inventing, when I get to it. But if

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Speaker 1: you google who invented the missile, you get the Nazis.

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Speaker 1: But he's gonna pull out missiles, guided missiles that go

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Speaker 1: twenty kilometers in the Spanish Civil War, shit missile in

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Speaker 1: this case being a rocket but guided. Yeah yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: And as a teen, this second Geno, Gino Bibby went

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Speaker 1: around on a bicycle and distributed anarchist leaflets until fascists

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Speaker 1: dragged him off his bike, beat him up, burned his motorcycle,

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Speaker 1: and then burned his father's sawmill. Great, because they were

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Speaker 1: a little extra the fascists. This did not make Gino

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Speaker 1: less radical, It just made him more angry. He's going

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Speaker 1: to have the last laugh against fascists in.

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Speaker 2: Italy, as often how things go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. He spent a while in lock up for

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Speaker 1: fighting fascists in the early nineteen twenties, then fled to Spain,

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Speaker 1: where he started learning how to fly in case he

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Speaker 1: needed to assassinate Mussolini from the air, Okay, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of like how I learned a while ago for

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Speaker 1: a prison break episode that an awful lot of the

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Speaker 1: prison breaks in the early aughts were it used.

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Speaker 2: To be a lot easier to get a helicopter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, learned to fly. That's how you

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Speaker 1: get people out of prison back in the day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Come the Spanish Civil War, he worked behind enemy lines,

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Speaker 1: blowing shit up and flying reconnaissance, and then he maybe

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Speaker 1: designed the first missile. If you google right now the

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Speaker 1: first missile, you get Nazi Germany World War two. But

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Speaker 1: Gino designed missiles that went twenty kilometers and the Drudi

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Speaker 1: column fired them at Francoist forces. So it started it

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Speaker 1: off as a good idea, just a very Pandora's box.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty cool. Yeah, you know what else?

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Speaker 1: The anarchist is not a products and services switch? Do

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Speaker 1: you know what else anarchists invented during the Spanish Civil War? No,

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Speaker 1: you ever played foosball?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Is that ours? Did you ever know? An anarchist named

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Speaker 1: Alejandro I forget his last name because it's not my

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Speaker 1: script invented foosball?

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Speaker 2: Alejandro Foos let's call it. Let's say Alan fos cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a again I'm completely off script here

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Speaker 1: and going from memory, but there was a guy who

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Speaker 1: was injured in the Spanish Civil War and he was

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Speaker 1: like an inventor, and he was like, but I want

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Speaker 1: to keep playing soccer, but I can't because I got

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Speaker 1: really badly injured. I'm going to invent table soccer. And

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Speaker 1: other people had invented it, but his invention is the

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Speaker 1: one that people play today.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So fascinating Spanish Civil War.

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Speaker 1: The anarchist gave us missiles and foosball.

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Speaker 2: To the two key cornerstones of the of modern civilization.

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Speaker 2: Missiles and foosball.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Meanwhile, while Gino's inventing missiles and doing specop's missions,

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Speaker 1: the Stalinists murdered his sister. Listen to any of our

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Speaker 1: episodes about the Spanish Civil War for more about how

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Speaker 1: Stalinis betrayed their comrades and started arresting folks that they

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Speaker 1: didn't like and torturing people and killing them. The Stalinists

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Speaker 1: actually arrested Gino two, but the anarchists in the government,

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Speaker 1: which is another odd thing that happened in the spanishivil

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Speaker 1: war were like oh no, fuck no, and the Stalinists

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Speaker 1: were forced to let him out. When the Spanish Republic fell.

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Speaker 1: Like everyone else, he fled into France and was held

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Speaker 1: in a concentration camp, not a Nazi one, but a

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Speaker 1: pre VG France one, where from he escaped and then

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Speaker 1: he moved back to Italy and he joined the Partisans there,

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Speaker 1: and he freed his own fucking hometown from fascists as

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Speaker 1: part of an anarchist partisan unit. I really like this guy,

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Speaker 1: to quote author Nick Heath. He died at the age

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Speaker 1: of one hundred on the eighth of August nineteen ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: He was cremated with a red and black scarf tied

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Speaker 1: around his neck. Ashes were interred in the anarchist corner

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Speaker 1: of the graveyard in Carrara.

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Speaker 2: Man, that's that's dope.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Also nineteen ninety nine great year to kind of clock out. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: miss missed a lot of messiness, got to see most

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Speaker 2: of the good star treks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And uh yeah. Geno Bibe, I got kind of

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Speaker 1: tiary when I was writing about the life of the

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Speaker 1: anarchist spy, pilot, bombmaker, engineer, partisan.

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Speaker 3: An invention spilot, spilot Margaret. Oh, spilot yes, the spilot, Yes,

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Speaker 3: an inventor of the guided missile system, which again not

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Speaker 3: our best move. Later, I'm going to talk about a

431
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 3: military invention, or actually a terrorism invention of the anarchist.

432
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 3: That's even worse.

433
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: Uh oh. The Irish are mostly famous for it, but

434
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 1: it was an Italian anarchist who later became a fascist. Anyway,

435
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: back to our main story, people trying to kill Mussolini.

436
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 1: Only a few months after Gino one through Gino two's

437
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: grenade at Mussolini, another young hero stepped forward to give

438
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: it as all, a really young hero, kind of a

439
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: This is the most heartbreaking part of the story. A

440
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: fifteen year old kid who had just quit the fascist

441
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: youth and become an anarchist.

442
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: That's good for him.

443
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: Antio Zamboni. God damn, I promised you, Zamboni.

444
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 2: Get Jamie Loftus on the horn. She needs to know

445
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: about this name.

446
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: I genuinely thought I was very glad that you were

447
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: my guest until I got to Zamboni, and I was like, ah,

448
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: if I was gonna have anyone else, it would be

449
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus, also more experienced killing me. Never mind, No, no,

450
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to join the bit about trying to

451
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: implicate okay, just checking, no, yeah yeah.

452
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 2: Until the court case is over and the grand jury

453
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 2: rules on the new evidence brought forward in that case,

454
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,360
Speaker 2: we probably should keep our mouths quiet.

455
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 1: By a mysterious person with a bad, fake Boston accent.

456
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: No for anyone who he doesn't know what we're talking about.

457
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: I'm proud of you. Well done. Way to be less

458
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: terminally online. You should listen to Jamie Lobs's podcasts. You should.

459
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: Antio Zamboni was born into a working class political family

460
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 1: in Bologna. His parents were anarchists who became fascists, or

461
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: at least his father had. He was never baptized. His

462
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: parents only had a civil union because they refused to

463
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: let the state or the church have anything to do

464
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: with their marriage before they became fascists. His father, Mamolo Zamboni,

465
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: when he became a fascist, the New York Times called

466
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: it quote disassociating from radical action, because being an anarchist

467
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: is radical, being a fascist is normal. According to the

468
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: New York Times in nineteen twenty six and now, yeah,

469
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: Mamolo called himself quote an anarchist and a fascist, So okay,

470
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: what a guy.

471
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of that too, unfortunately, yet

472
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 2: could look into their I mean, he considered himself and

473
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 2: was very angry about other like people who called themselves

474
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: anarchists because he had a different attitude towards it. But

475
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 2: the guy who wrote A Storm of Steel, Ernst Junger,

476
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: was like called himself an anarch and I guess the

477
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 2: difference is he just believed in anarchism for himself as

478
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 2: like an individual choice, still serving the Nazi state. He

479
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 2: was kind of an incoherent fella politically in my opinion,

480
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 2: but wrote a very good World War One memoir.

481
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: Well, I think that that sounds like approximately half of

482
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: the modern libertarian party that the other half of the

483
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: Libertarian party is very embarrassed about.

484
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

485
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: Antio had two brothers, one of whom was in a

486
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: Fascist militia, the other of whom was in the army.

487
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 1: Antio was a young anarchist with way better politics than

488
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: his dad, and he took a shot at Mussolini while

489
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,719
Speaker 1: the man drove past him in an open car. He missed,

490
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: he pierced the Fascist collar and the crowd killed him.

491
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: Just stab this child to death. Oh, I've you know

492
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old either looks like a kid or

493
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: an adult. Yeah, Antio is a kid. This is a child. Yeah,

494
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: I mean every fifteen year old is a child. But

495
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: the crowd knew they were killing a child. Yeah, yeah,

496
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: they did not.

497
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 2: It was not just like somebody who could have passed

498
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 2: for seventeen or eighteen, Like they were very aware they

499
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 2: were killing a kid.

500
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, he could have passed for twelve.

501
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, gotcha.

502
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: I looked at the I don't normally do this to myself,

503
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: but I looked at the corpse photo because the only

504
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: other photos that anyone has of him is when he's

505
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: like eight, you know. And his coward fascist father tried

506
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: to distance himself from the actions of his son until

507
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 1: after the war. But we'll get to that. The New

508
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: York Times reported the father walked into the police station

509
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: to see the body and said, quote, I knew it

510
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: would happen. It was faded. He was a strange boy

511
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: with strange notions. I had a dreadful premonition that something

512
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: would happen to him. Our doctor said he might go

513
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: mad one day. This is the father trying to save

514
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: his own ass. It's not gonna work. Then, New York

515
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: Times writes a little glowing article about Mussolini playing his

516
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: violin with his wife and kids at home, taking solace

517
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: after the attack. Then they talk about how everyone is

518
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,719
Speaker 1: saying that if Mussolini stays alive, fascism will keep Italy

519
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: normal and peaceful.

520
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: But if he were killed, it seems like what fascism

521
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: will do.

522
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, violent fascists might take over if Mussolini's killed.

523
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 1: And on the exact same page of the New York

524
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: Times from nineteen twenty six, there's a different article about

525
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: fascist black shirts rating anti fascist newspapers at gunpoint. Uh huh,

526
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: but you know, but like in a normal way, you know. Yeah, yeah,

527
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: being a fascist did not protect Mamolo the father. He

528
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: and his sister in law were both sentenced to thirty

529
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: years for being vaguely connected to Antio. Basically, they're like, oh,

530
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: the kid couldn't come up with it. It must have

531
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: been a plot by previously anarchy dad. But by nineteen

532
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: thirty two, the elder Zamboni received a pardon directly from

533
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 1: Mussolini in exchange for becoming an informant for the fascists. Then,

534
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: after the war, Mamlo went one eighty again and started

535
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: writing pamphlets speaking of the courage of his son and

536
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: started publishing anarchist material again. Great, he died in nineteen

537
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: fifty two. And he's not the only anarchist in the

538
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: story who went fascist and then anarchist again. Yeah, this guy,

539
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: I don't like him.

540
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, again, a lot of It's just like a lot

541
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 2: of people are more drip, will always be a decent

542
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: number of people, sizable minority, always mostly just driven by

543
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: whatever's pissing them off in the moment, you know, as

544
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: opposed to principles totally.

545
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: I'm just so mad at him for turning his back

546
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: on his kid and trying to throw this dead kid

547
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: under the bus to save his own ass.

548
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: And it sounds like a guy who sucks. Yeah, sounds

549
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: like a guy a bastard that maybe so one should

550
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 2: get behind.

551
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: I know, I was kind of a little weird guy too, Like, yeah,

552
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: after Antio's attempts on Mussolini, all other political parties were outlawed,

553
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: but they already didn't have any power, and Mussolini was

554
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: going to do that anyhow, was my argument. This more

555
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: or less ends open anarchist organizing in Italy, as I

556
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: understand it, and Mussolini brings back the death penalty now

557
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: for anyone trying to kill him or the king. That

558
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: didn't stop people from trying to kill him. No one

559
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: tries to kill a dictator thinking it's a safe thing

560
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: to do. Nope.

561
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody's ever killed a dictator. Being like this is

562
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: this is more relaxing than staying home at night and

563
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: reading the newspaper.

564
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna get away from this just fine.

565
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, although later the.

566
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: People who do kill Missolini do.

567
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's a different time. That's really not an assassination.

568
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: No. No. The next attempt we're going to talk about

569
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: was a man who, like Atano bread She before him,

570
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: abandoned the safety of the United States and kind of

571
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: abandoned his family there to return to Italy to try

572
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: and do what was right. His name was Mikela Shiu Okay,

573
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: which to me looks like it's spelled Michelle if anyone's curious,

574
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: But it's like the French, but it's not. It's Italian,

575
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: so it's Macla Miclay. Shiro was born in eighteen ninety

576
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: nine on Sardinia, which is an Italian island. His father

577
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: had already emigrated to the US and Michaelay was raised

578
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,719
Speaker 1: by his mother. He was twice arrested in demonstrations as

579
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: a kid. He was conscripted into World War One, and

580
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: like a lot of anarchists at the time, he was

581
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: hoping the war would turn into a war of liberation.

582
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: It did not.

583
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: Famously, it's a bummer, yeah.

584
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: Mckelay became convinced of anarchism after the Communist Party, he

585
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: felt sold out the factory occupations and let the bosses

586
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: back in. He eventually moves to Manhattan. He starts fighting

587
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: Italian fascists in the streets. He worked as a mechanic

588
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: and then he became a banana wholesaler in the Bronx.

589
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: He married an Irish American woman named Minnie. He had

590
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: two kids. I think he had a son and a daughter.

591
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: But he was watching Italy fall to fascism and he

592
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: couldn't handle it. He was like, someone's got to do something.

593
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: I'm someone. I'm gonna do something. He went first to

594
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: France and then likely coordinated with anarchists there, but he

595
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: kept his mouth shut about it, so we never know.

596
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: We'll never know, like who else was involved because they

597
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: were never arrested. He went up to Belgium, and he

598
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: worked in an anarchist bomb making workshop. I don't know,

599
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: there's like a like fly you go to like the

600
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: punk show and there's a flyer. It's like, hey, come

601
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: to the anarchist bomb making workshop this Saturday. Yeah, but

602
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: he made himself two bombs and then he traveled to

603
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: Rome in January nineteen thirty one. We've only got his

604
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: confession under duress to work from, so we don't. You know,

605
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: famously not always the most.

606
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: Honest and not a great source.

607
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but ogonal plan he said was that he was

608
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: going to use the bombs in Paris against the Soviet

609
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: embassy in revenge for the murder of anarchists in the USSR.

610
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: But then he decided to kill Mussolini himself. I think

611
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: that that was his backup plan. I think that he

612
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: went to I think he went back to Europe to

613
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: try and kill Mssolini. But in Rome he rented two

614
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: hotel rooms, one for himself and one for his bombs.

615
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: Because bombs need privacy too, you know.

616
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: Of course, yes, that's actually my primary political issue, yeah,

617
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: is extending privacy rights to modern military explosives. You know,

618
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: nobody needs to know what a couple of jade ams

619
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 2: get up to in their spare time. That's between them

620
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: and God and whatever village they're hitting.

621
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: While he was there, he was either shacking up with

622
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: or conspiring with a Hungarian dancer named Anna Lukowski. If

623
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: I were writing the story, it would be both. Also,

624
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: everyone writes sex work out of history, so I would

625
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: put money that she was a sex worker, but that

626
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: doesn't make her less or more likely to have been

627
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: one of the conspirators. And there is reason to believe

628
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: that he is part of a broader conspiracy working, but

629
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: he never rats them out. And the reason that we

630
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: think this is that he spent money really freely while

631
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: he was there. He was renting two hotel rooms, but

632
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: he had no money on him when he was arrested,

633
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: and there was like no money in any of the

634
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: rooms or whatever. Right, So he was probably working with

635
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: a bunch of people who wanted Mussolini dead. A lot

636
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: of people wanted Mussolini dead.

637
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, for some reason, his.

638
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: Plan was really simple. One of his hotel rooms overlooked

639
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: a common route for Mussolini's car. He was going to

640
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: wait and drop a bomb on Mussolini, but he wanted

641
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: to do it when there was no bystanders around, of course,

642
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: And this is the thing that has come up a

643
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: bunch of times in the show, but has left out

644
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: a lot of the sensationless stuff about bomb assassinations, as

645
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 1: all of the bystanders who get killed. There have been

646
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: so so many times in history, and there's gonna be

647
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: two in this episode where people don't do it because

648
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: they can't find a way to do it without hurting people.

649
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: He's there for like three weeks and he can't find

650
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 1: a way to not hurt anyone else. He had all

651
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: but given up, and he was figuring he'd go back

652
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: to Paris and attack the Soviets instead. When he was

653
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: stopped on the street by cops on February third, nineteen

654
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: thirty one. And I think he was just like stopped

655
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: for being a sketchy guy because it's a fascist state,

656
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: you know, and they take him to a holding cell

657
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: for investigation. There were three cops in the room. He

658
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: pulled a gun and shot all three cops. Wow, and

659
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: then he shouted, long live anarchy and put the gun

660
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: in his own mouth and pulled the trigger. Well, okay,

661
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: all four men survived. Oh my god.

662
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, I mean that does have to win my

663
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 2: award for worst with a gun of anyone on this podcast.

664
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: To shoot four people in pluting yourself and have them

665
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 2: all live is a real yeah. Honestly though, I got

666
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 2: to say, given the time, something that probably just goes

667
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 2: down to how much worse ammunition was back then. You know,

668
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 2: powder loads were less reliable. He may have loaded himself,

669
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 2: you know.

670
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I think he like he seriously injured one

671
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: of the cops in himself, Jesus Christ. He was like

672
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: rushed to emergency surgery, and they, you know, wanted him

673
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: fit to stand trial.

674
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: Right, stand trial for killing no one.

675
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,959
Speaker 1: That's actually part of the thing. I was reading newspapers

676
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: at the time, and they were like, look, shooting cops

677
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: didn't carry the death penalty, so it actually was against

678
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: their own laws to try and give him the death penalty.

679
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: But he admitted that he was there to kill Missolini.

680
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: In fact, he pretty much they were like, what are

681
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: you doing. He was like, I'm here to kill Missolini.

682
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: Uh.

683
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: He tried to write his wife, and his wife tried

684
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: to write him while he was in jail, but their

685
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: letters were confiscated. He wrote to his father to the

686
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: same effect in May nineteen thirty one, he was tried

687
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: by a fascist judge with no jury, and all the

688
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 1: lawyers and witnesses had to be put before a special

689
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: tribunal before they could come in. His defense was basically,

690
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: I came here to blow out Mussolini. During the trial,

691
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: he decried both fascism and communism. They told him he

692
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: would be executed, shot in the back. He didn't say

693
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: a word as the sentence came down. When he was

694
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: asked if he had anything to add, he shrugged his shoulders.

695
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 1: At two thirty am the next morning, they came into

696
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: his cell and told him he would be killed at sunrise.

697
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: He said he did not need a priest, and he

698
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: was shot in the back by a firing squad of

699
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: twenty four fascists, folks from his home of Sardinia, who

700
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: had volunteered specifically to kill him.

701
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 2: Well, I guess that's a nice at least you.

702
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: No, it's your guys.

703
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 2: You went to high school with murdering. Yeah, totally, Actually

704
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: sounds much worse.

705
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. His wife, Minnie lived to nineteen eighty seven, dying

706
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: at eighty three. Their son Spartaco, died in two thousand

707
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: and five. I found an article I couldn't get access

708
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: to behind an academic wall of Spartaco writing about his father,

709
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: And I'm kind of sad I couldn't get it. But

710
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: here's an assassin who didn't go through with his actions

711
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: because he couldn't do it without hurting anyone else. Now

712
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: let's talk about the opposite sure, but before that, let's

713
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: talk about the other opposite products and services.

714
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: Ah, I love products and services.

715
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: Well, someone's going to get hurt.

716
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 2: Mh's that's the promise we make.

717
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: Here they are.

718
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: And we're burke.

719
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: We are burt. Now I'm going to talk about my

720
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: least favorite anarchist in history.

721
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: Oh, there's a couple of jokes. There's a couple of

722
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: jokes I could make.

723
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: We know, but yeah, no, my least favorite anarchist I've

724
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,479
Speaker 1: never met. You don't stay in a political scene without

725
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: making a few. Let's go with frenemies. Yeah. So, there's

726
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: a long list of things anarchists have invented which can

727
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: be used for good or evil. The carriage mounted machine gun,

728
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: missiles apparently, the getaway car, foosball, steampunk, free bike programs, signal,

729
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: the messaging app. One thing that you can say was

730
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: probably invented by someone who called themselves an anarchist at

731
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: the time. Was the car bomb? Uh?

732
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, look, I've seen a couple of car bombs.

733
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 2: I've even seen one kill people and not a fan

734
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,439
Speaker 2: of car bombs. No, well, it was a vbied, which

735
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 2: I guess is like an it's in that line of descent.

736
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm still sorry you to see anyone die.

737
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 2: It's okay, I mostly I mean they were far enough

738
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 2: away that I just kind of saw them turned into smoke.

739
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, no, I'm sure that doesn't have any effects

740
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: on yourself. No, not at all, not at all. Yeah.

741
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: Before the Oklahoma City bombing, the deadliest terrorist attack in

742
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: US history was the Wall Street bombing of September sixteenth,

743
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty.

744
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 2: Oh.

745
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: I have heard of this. Yeah, someone it is not

746
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: certain who used a horse drawn wagon as the first

747
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: car bomb. And every time I say the first in

748
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: any show, it's like, you know, I don't know the

749
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 1: first that I know about, Right, there's a whole book

750
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: about the history of the car bomb called Buddhas Wagon,

751
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: because we're going to get to ooh, that's how it

752
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: was probably Mario Buddha. Yeah, in this car bomb, I

753
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: thought there were talk.

754
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 2: I was hoping there were some Buddhist history with car

755
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,439
Speaker 2: bombs that I hadn't heard. But okay, that makes sense.

756
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: No, I mean maybe I don't, no, but yes, in

757
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 1: this carriage was one hundred pounds of dynamite five hundred

758
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: pounds of cast iron weights for shrapnel, and they rode

759
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: the horse up and then the driver got out and

760
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: left and blew up on Wall Street, not in one

761
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: of the buildings. It killed forty people, and then like injure,

762
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: hundreds of people and almost everyone that killed were like

763
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: fucking kids that worked as messengers and like clerks and shit.

764
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: Again, this is like the problem of like just this

765
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: thing you get on Twitter whenever stuff happens where it's

766
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 2: like somebody has attacked this group of people that like

767
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: leftists broadly dislike, and it's like, I don't know, wait

768
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 2: a minute to see if that's who they hit. Yeah,

769
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not talking about you know, the recent thing,

770
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 2: but like it happens often where it's like yeah, it

771
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: turns out like oh no, no, that's not that's not

772
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: who got hurt. Yeah, because that's you know, with bombs,

773
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 2: very hard to be It's the same thing like it's

774
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: not just a leftist thing. Like it's mostly not a

775
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 2: leftist thing. It's a thing that I grew up watching

776
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 2: all of the adults around me celebrate as like bombs

777
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: got dropped in places that I now know because I

778
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 2: understand more about bombs and talk to people who were

779
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: in those places when they were being bombed, were largely

780
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 2: killing civilians, because precision bombing is mostly a myth.

781
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

782
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 2: It's just like people love explosions.

783
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: And the guy who had recently just tried to kill

784
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: MUSSLINI earlier on the story didn't do it because it

785
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: wasn't a good buy chance. Yep.

786
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: And don't make bombs. I shouldn't need to say that.

787
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: Don't be making bombs, don't do bombs. Bombs. Bomb's bad.

788
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 2: You will not be the one who figures out how

789
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: to use bombs ethically, no one ever has been.

790
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this wasn't some kids who died as collateral damage,

791
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: but we killed some big shots. This was all collateral damage,

792
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: no regular damage.

793
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 2: Cool really put the fear of God into those people

794
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: who didn't get hurt.

795
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:01,720
Speaker 1: Yep. And I would argue that of every major political

796
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: ideology of the last two hundred years. Anarchism probably is

797
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: the least innocent blood on its hands.

798
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, in part because we generally don't wind

799
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: up in power. Yeah totally, which is you know, I

800
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 2: mean is part of the goal. But yeah, yeah totally.

801
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 2: But the Wall Street bombing is a decent chunk of

802
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 2: the innocent blood on our hands.

803
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: Of the anatist movement.

804
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 2: That's a bad one.

805
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: The most likely suspect is an Italian anarchist named Mario Buddha,

806
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: who was actually probably with Sacho when they robbed and

807
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: killed those people in the Sacho and Vanzetti case. Mario

808
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: Budda is like a mystery man in history and there's

809
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: a lot of like takes on him, and he was

810
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: like kind of almost everywhere that like violence was happening.

811
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: Mario Buddha went on to almost certainly become a fascist

812
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: infemant in Italy. Cool, yeah, and almost certainly foil another

813
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: anarchist attempt on Mussolini's life. He is the worst.

814
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, that is as shitty as you can

815
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:08,919
Speaker 2: possibly be as an anarchist militant. I know, honestly, I'm mad.

816
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 2: I'm mad, but I am a little impressed. Yeah, Like

817
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 2: if I was making up an anarchist for you to

818
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 2: get mad at. I couldn't do better than this.

819
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: Absolutely. After murdering a bunch of kids and shit in

820
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: the name of anarchy, he made his way back to Italy,

821
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: got caught up in the hubbub.

822
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: Yeah it stopped someone from killing Musolini.

823
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Jesus. By nineteen thirty three, it seems likely

824
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: that he is cooperating with police and informing on anarchists,

825
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: and a lot of like people who are really into

826
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: anarchist history are skeptical of this because for a while,

827
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: the only information that anyone had about this was that

828
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 1: a communist newspaper accused him of this. At the time, yeah,

829
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: and a lot of people, even anarchists listened and were like, oh,

830
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: we don't trust this guy anymore. But other people were like, oh,

831
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: that's the communist plain sectarian politics. And then later you

832
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: can see historians have done the work of being like

833
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: here's where Mario Budo was dropped off the list of

834
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: dangerous anarchists to keep an eye out for, and like

835
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: here's you know, he's basically like the fascist took him

836
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: under their wing. And even if half of what they

837
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: say about Mario Buddha is true. I don't like him

838
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: at all. I don't like blowing up kids on Wall Street.

839
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: I don't like cooperating a fascists, and I don't like

840
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,439
Speaker 1: Foilian an attempt on Musolini's life. Yeah again, I uh yeah really.

841
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 2: One of my very few lines is you probably should

842
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 2: don't go don't be killing kids.

843
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:25,720
Speaker 1: dB kk.

844
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 2: That's my little like, what would Jesus do? Bracelet in

845
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 2: case you ever need to kill cat? Yeah, look at

846
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 2: a bracelet. Oh no, you know what, I shouldn't kill kids?

847
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

848
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 2: Also, if you need to look at a bracelet to

849
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: remind you not to kill kids, I would. Maybe there's

850
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 2: a lot of things you probably need to do therapy.

851
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Meanwhile, back to a regular anarchist when I like,

852
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: who doesn't become a fascist? Sure, there's a blacksmith named Umberto.

853
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: I promise you another Mberto Thomasini. Mberto got involved in

854
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: politics when he was thirteen. He joined the nineteen oh

855
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: nine General Strike in response to the murder of the

856
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: Spanish anarchists. Educator and veteran of the Pod francisc Ferrar.

857
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: He went on to fight in World War One. He

858
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: won a Cross for valor, but according to his own take.

859
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: What happened is he got to the war because he

860
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: was conscripted and he just shot into the air and

861
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: he was like trying not to kill anyone.

862
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's actually I mean, there's some evidence, although

863
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: the studies around it have been to a degree, there's

864
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,280
Speaker 2: a lot of critiques about them, but like some evidence

865
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 2: that that was more the norm than not with combat soldiers.

866
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 1: And I bet especially when you're talking about like trenches

867
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: and stuff, where you're like, yes, yes, go shoot that

868
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: dot on the horizon, whereas like if someone's like running

869
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: through a trench trying to kill me, I'm like, I'm

870
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: gonna shoot that man, even if we have the same

871
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: political ideology. If I was trying to kill you with that,

872
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: I just don't want to get shot. Yeah, but yeah, no, totally.

873
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: And he he spent some time as a pow during

874
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: the war, and then he returned home to return to

875
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 1: work as a blacksmith, and he more formally committed to anarchism,

876
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: aside his brothers, who, like all everyone else, they left

877
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: the Socialist Party in nineteen twenty one after the Socialists

878
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 1: sold out the movement. Again. I don't know as much

879
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: about that, but that is what Umberto felt, and his

880
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: brothers felt. Umberto's life could easily be his own episode.

881
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: He helped get the bombs from one Gino to the

882
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: other Gino in nineteen twenty six, then spent six years

883
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: in prison during the crackdown on it. Like after Musolin

884
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: he came to power, he sent a whole bunch of

885
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: the anarchists to prison. Right during those six years he

886
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,280
Speaker 1: met an anarchist in prison named Mario Buddha. Then Umberto

887
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: fled Italy on foot to Yugoslavia. Then he went to Paris,

888
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: where he met his partner Anna and had his son Renee.

889
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty six, Spain was under attack and so

890
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: Umberto left the then safety of Paris to go to

891
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: the front lines teaching anarchists about trench warfare. And then

892
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: he became an anarchist specops guy and he went off

893
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 1: to go mine franco as ships.

894
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: Oh, cool I is the opposite of the guy who

895
00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 2: just killed children and saved Mussoliti.

896
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly, and he shouldn't have been friends with

897
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 1: that guy. He was arrested by Stalinists and prevented from

898
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: attacking the fascist while he was off to go mind

899
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: these ships. He broke out of Stalinis's prison, and then

900
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: he returned back to the prison he'd just broken out

901
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: of alongside anarchists from the government to negotiate everyone's release.

902
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,879
Speaker 1: I think this is the same situation as the last man,

903
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: the missile inventor man. But this might have just happened

904
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: a bunch of times, yeah, because I read about these

905
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: in different sources. Then in nineteen thirty seven, he goes

906
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: back to France so he can plot how to kill Mussolini.

907
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: One problem, one of his co conspirators, a man who

908
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: has absolute trust for is Mario Budda, whom he had

909
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: met in prison. Mario leaked the plan to the Italian police,

910
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 1: who foiled it. After the war, Mario Budda went back

911
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 1: to the anarchist movement.

912
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 2: Hooray, great, he sounds trustworthy.

913
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure.

914
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, really worked on things.

915
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, don't want to cancel him just for

916
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: saving Mussolini's life and murdering children. I can't find much

917
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: about this particular assassination attempt that he foiled. Mostly I

918
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: found a lot of ins and outs about the informant.

919
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: But to follow umberto he like so many other anarchists

920
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: wound up in a non Nazi concentration camp in France.

921
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: Then he was turned over to the Italian police, where

922
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: he was imprisoned until the end of the war. Finally

923
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,439
Speaker 1: he's freed. He returns to his wife and his son

924
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: and his work as a blacksmith, and to anarchist organizing.

925
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 1: When the spirit of sixty eight swings through, he starts

926
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 1: organizing again. He's like about seventy years old, and he's

927
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: like organizing with a bunch of twenty year old kids, right,

928
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: because it's the it's nineteen sixty eight.

929
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's who there's going to be to organize with.

930
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's Coole as shit. He kept publishing

931
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: shit that would send him back to jail. I think

932
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: he was sent back to jail like multiple times, just

933
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: for continuing to publish anarchist literature. And then he died

934
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty. He wrote an autobiography, but I don't

935
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: believe it's been translated, And there's a documentary about him

936
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,439
Speaker 1: called An Anarchist Life from twenty thirteen that I haven't

937
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: seen yet that I want to see. And he was

938
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: real cool, but I don't know what he did to

939
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: try and kill Mussolini. I just know he made the

940
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 1: wrong friend.

941
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we all do sometimes.

942
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

943
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 2: For example, I mean there was one summer that Benita

944
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 2: Mussolini and I were inseparable. I mean we would spend

945
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 2: just hours on the beach, telling each other's secrets, having

946
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 2: pig nicks. You know. There was that one wine drenched night,

947
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 2: and then I found out he'd been the dictator of

948
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: Italy this whole time. I had no idea, Margaret, I

949
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: had no idea.

950
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: I know. I mean, what's funny is that pre him

951
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: becoming Mussolini. That is the story that a lot of

952
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 1: people tell. People do have that story, like the woman Lita,

953
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: who is probably his lover, who is an anarchist, who

954
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: was like later she was like I misjudged his character.

955
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, he booms amongst us. Hasn't been friends

956
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 1: with the inventor of fascism?

957
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 2: Well Cohen, I mean, let's we've got there was another

958
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 2: Italian who might deserve that title a little more. But

959
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 2: we talked about him on Behind the Bastards. Wait which one, Oh,

960
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 2: the guy who wore a banana hammock one sec.

961
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: Wait, what does he invent the banana Hammick. No, no, no,

962
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: but he uh, I don't.

963
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 2: Remember this person's name either.

964
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: We definitely talked about it though.

965
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 2: Gabriel Banunzio, Yes, Gabriel Danunzio, who was a big influence

966
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: on Mussolini and was like is often credited as the

967
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 2: inventor of fascism. He never called himself a fascist. He's

968
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 2: like partially right, there's not just one guy, but he

969
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 2: is earlier in the chain of the development of fascist

970
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 2: mess a concept than Mussolini and an influence on Benito. Yeah.

971
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 2: Oh h yeah, Gabriel Dnunzio. You can listen to our

972
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 2: two parter on him, very much worth it. He is

973
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 2: the guy who in fume as an in dependent city.

974
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 2: He's a guy who marches into fume and takes it

975
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 2: over as like, oh, along with a bunch of there

976
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 2: were anarchists and communists and fascists all kind of together

977
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 2: because they were all very much anti just all of

978
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 2: the things that are going on right now, but those

979
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 2: ideologies hadn't really hardened into the in the concrete way

980
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 2: they would a couple of years later. Fascinating time, kind

981
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 2: of like how a lot of our most prominent right

982
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 2: wing fas a lot of them are prominent fascist media

983
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 2: ideologues today. Were part of occupy.

984
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, God, Actually the occupy versus fume thing is actually

985
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: makes a lot of really specific sense. That's the thing

986
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 1: that's like it's so hard to talk about, is that

987
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: in a certain way, fascism is the red Brown alliance

988
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: because it is taking ideas from leftism but applying into

989
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 1: right wing ideology.

990
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: Yes.

991
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: Well, two more people at least tried to kill Mussolini.

992
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: One of them don't know much about. Isn't even on

993
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: the list of people who tried to kill Mussolini Wikipedia.

994
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: His name is Domenico Bavone and he was a Republican.

995
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: He's the republican on our list. He tried to build

996
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: bombs to kill Mussolini, but he didn't go to the

997
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: bomb making workshop for the punk show Flyer told him

998
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: about in Brussels.

999
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: That's a shame.

1000
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: So he failed at making the bombs properly, and he

1001
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 1: blew up his own house on September fifth, nineteen thirty one,

1002
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: killing his own mother.

1003
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 2: Well, bad job, bro, that's about That's about his bad

1004
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: I mean, and again, don't build bombs. There are so many.

1005
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 2: By far, the most normal story in what political radical

1006
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 2: tries to make a bomb? Is political radical kills themselves,

1007
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 2: their friends or their family.

1008
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, don't make bombs. Yeah, they're very indiscriminate. And

1009
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: under interrogation he admitted he was trying to kill Mussolini

1010
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: and he was shot in the back by a firing squad.

1011
00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: And then there is Angelo Pellegrono Sabbard Aletto. Angelo was

1012
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 1: born in nineteen oh seven in mel Italy, and he

1013
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: was the fifth of eleven children, which means I do

1014
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 1: not need to tell you he was from a Catholic family,

1015
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 1: but he was. His family was poor as hell. The

1016
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: article I read specifically indicated they were poor as hell

1017
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 1: because they had eleven children. But you know, whatever you do,

1018
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 1: you people can make their own decisions on how many

1019
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: kids to have. They fled poverty to France, then Luxembourg,

1020
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,800
Speaker 1: then Belgium. Angelo was a miner and a machine hand.

1021
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: He became an anarchist as a teenager, talking to other

1022
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: immigrant workers who were mostly political refugees. Soon enough he

1023
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,959
Speaker 1: was on lists of dangerous extremists and draft dodgers and shit.

1024
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: And he was inspired by Mikelo Sheirou and he met

1025
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: almost the exact same fate. In nineteen thirty two, he

1026
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 1: went to Rome to kill Mussolini, but like maclay before him,

1027
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: he couldn't find a moment when he could bomb Mussolini

1028
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: without hurting anyone else. He spent months trying, just bought

1029
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:00,919
Speaker 1: a gun and should have bought a gun.

1030
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 2: I mean whatever, I don't know how hard it was

1031
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 2: to buy guns in Mussolini's Italy, fair enough, Yeah.

1032
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: But you know, he spent months trying, and he was

1033
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: on the verge of giving up when, like mcklay, he

1034
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: was arrested seemingly by happenstance on a train station, just

1035
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: like some cops were like, Eh, you're suspicious, We're going

1036
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: to search you. Which is you know, fascism. Also, the

1037
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: same thing happens in New York City subways, but you

1038
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 1: know whatever. Yeah, when he was searched, he had a

1039
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: Swiss passport, a pistol. Oh, he had a fucking gun.

1040
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 2: Well, okay, I guess not that hard, yeah, question answered yeah,

1041
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,760
Speaker 2: and two bombs and he was tortured, and under torture

1042
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 2: he said he was there to avenge mckelay Shiro.

1043
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,280
Speaker 1: He'd written a letter previously that year that said, quote,

1044
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: I have no choice to be free. Tyranny must be beaten.

1045
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 1: To build tomorrow a new order in which all can

1046
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 1: enjoy the fruits of their labor and freely express their thoughts.

1047
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: We must destroy today all the injustices which render this impossible.

1048
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,240
Speaker 1: His trial was a show trial. It was two days long.

1049
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: Journalists decried him as surly and sinister and would like

1050
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: literally make stuff up about how he looked. They were

1051
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: like he had a low forehead, you know, which he didn't.

1052
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: But even if he did, fuck you, you know. His

1053
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: lawyer asked him to write Mussolini for clemency. He refused.

1054
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: He shouted long Live anarchy when he was shot in

1055
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: the back. After he was killed, the Fascist government decided

1056
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: to hide forever his burial site. No one knows where

1057
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: his body is. A biographer for Mussolini said that he

1058
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 1: would have pardoned the anarchists if they had asked, because

1059
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 1: he lauded their courage. I mean, considering a lot of

1060
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: his fucking people were former anarchists. Yep, I don't know.

1061
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: Maybe you would have, but fuck that, I mean whatever.

1062
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be mad if anyone was like, oh, please

1063
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: don't kill me, mister Missolini. At whatever, I would be

1064
00:55:58,480 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 1: like you weakling.

1065
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 2: Give uh yeah Mussolini, I hardly know. Ye, yeah, did

1066
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 2: I already do that joke? It just occurred to me.

1067
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: So yeah. Originally I was going to talk about the

1068
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:14,879
Speaker 1: Partisans who finally did him in, but I think we've

1069
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: covered a lot of trying to kill Mussolini. There are

1070
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: too many cool people I didn't want to skim pass.

1071
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: You got a Socialist, a Catholic, or Republican, at least

1072
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: five anarchists who tried to do him in, but it

1073
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 1: took a whole ass war. We got him in the end, though, And.

1074
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 2: You know what, folks, what I'll say right now is

1075
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 2: you can still try to take a shot at Mussolini,

1076
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 2: and he's a lot easier to hit now. I assume

1077
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 2: he's buried somewhere.

1078
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: Probably I feel like, yeah, go dig him up, yeah

1079
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,879
Speaker 1: and take a shot. Take a shot. Yeah I had

1080
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: have miss that way. Yeah, gender neutral shooting range, that's

1081
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: what they say, take a shot with.

1082
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 2: You know, it could just be with the tool that

1083
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 2: you have on hand, so to speak. That was a

1084
00:56:57,880 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 2: penis joke.

1085
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, we know. I could have been a p joke

1086
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: because you can have a tool on hand without a

1087
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: penis You're right.

1088
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 2: You could use you can use a shi wi for example.

1089
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 2: You know there's all sorts of grat or just you

1090
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 2: cut the bottom of a water bottle out and then

1091
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 2: like cut the top to widen it and you kind

1092
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 2: of jam it in there.

1093
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: It sort of works. And I can't believe that's the

1094
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: note we're ending on, but that's where we're at. Everyone, Uh,

1095
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: go kill Mussolini, but only Mussolini.

1096
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 2: We're talking about the past, yes, only in the past.

1097
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: And if you want to know more about the knock

1098
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: on effects of various types of violence, listen to this

1099
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: entire show's history because it is full of knock on effects,

1100
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: many of which are negative.

1101
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 2: And in terms of things I will continue to say

1102
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 2: for the modern era, don't make bombs.

1103
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: Don't make bombs. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is

1104
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media.

1105
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 2: For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website

1106
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 2: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

1107
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.