1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,439 Speaker 1: We've seen a lot of legal drama in the country recently, 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: coming off the heels of President Trump being found guilty 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: on thirty four felony counts. Even though that was a 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: witch hunt, we know that that was a sham trial 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: from a judge who literally donated to Joe Biden and 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: a group called Stop Republicans. So he's trying to do 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: just that, Stop Republicans, Stop Donald Trump. 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 2: And now Hudder. 9 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: Biden has been found guilty in all three federal felony 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: gun charges that he was facing. He also has a 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: tax trial beginning on September fifth. He's facing three felony 12 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: tax offenses and six misdemeanors in that one. So where 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: do we go from here as a country? What should 14 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: you know about Hunter Biden being found guilty on those 15 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: federal gun charges. What's next for him? What kind of 16 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: sentencing will he face? Also, what will we find out 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: during this tax trial? Well, Hunter Biden plead guilty to 18 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: try to avoid embarrassing information coming to light about his 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: dad and his own business dealings. What do you need 20 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: to know about that? Also, as we await President Trump's 21 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: sentencing on July eleventh, will Judge Matron try to send 22 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: him to jail. I mean, we've already seen democrats take 23 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: it this far, so what should we expect from that 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: and what does the appeals process look like for President Trump? 25 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: We're going to get into all of that with Andy McCarthy. 26 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: He is a best selling author, contributing editor at the 27 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: National Review, and a fellow at the National Review Institute. 28 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: He's a Fox News contributor, and most importantly, he's a 29 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: former chief Assistant US Attorney. This is someone who's dedicated 30 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 1: his life to the rule of law, dedicated his career 31 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: to it. So what does he think about the justice 32 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: system now? After following the Trump trial so closely and 33 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: following this so closely, we have so much to dig 34 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: into with Andy McCarthy. His analysis is always so smart. 35 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: I learned so much from him. I hope you do 36 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: as well, So stay tuned and named Carthy. 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: Well, Andy, thanks so much for making the time. 38 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: I know you've been really busy with all this legal 39 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: drama in the country, so you always give such great analysis. 40 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: I just really appreciate you making the time for the show. 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 3: Lisa, It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks so much. 42 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: You know so Andy, I assume you probably weren't surprised 43 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: with Hunter Biden being found guilty and all three federal 44 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: felony gun charge accounts. What does a typical sentencing look 45 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 1: for that look like for that. 46 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 3: Well, for this kind of a charge, he's probably an 47 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 3: unusual defendant in that there is no evidence, at least 48 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 3: that I'm aware of, that he was trying to obtain 49 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 3: the gun for criminal purposes. I suspect, given that he 50 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 3: has this bad narcotics issue that you know, he could 51 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 3: very well have decided that he needed to be armed, 52 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 3: given the dangerousness of some of the places that he 53 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: had to purchase drugs from, or that he chose to 54 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 3: purchase drugs from. But I don't think there's any evidence 55 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: of that in the record so far as I understand. 56 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 3: He's an ineligible person. So you start from the premise 57 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 3: that he's not allowed to have the gun. But the 58 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: sentencing guidelines, and I should say, Lisa that the you know, 59 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 3: a lot of the rhetoric in the media always talks 60 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 3: about the statutory range, which is huge. So you keep 61 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 3: reading again and again that Hunter's looking it up to 62 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 3: twenty five years in prison, But real sentencing litigation in 63 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: the federal government is really controlled by the sentencing guidelines, 64 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 3: not the statutes. So the objective of the sentencing guidelines 65 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 3: is to take k which are brought under, say a 66 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 3: statute like the possession statute that Hunter violated, where it's 67 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 3: a where it's a ten year it's actually now a 68 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 3: fifteen year penalty, but in the when he violated it 69 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 3: was a ten year penalty. You know, it's zero to ten. 70 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 3: There's no mandatory minimum, tends to maximum. So you're going 71 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 3: to have a you're going to have a wide range 72 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 3: of defendants, and some should be on the ten side 73 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 3: of the spectrum and some should be on the zero side, right, 74 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 3: So what the sentencing guidelines try to do is bring 75 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 3: a little predictability to that range. So what they look 76 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 3: at is the typical factors that come up in an 77 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 3: offense like this, and then they look at personal factors, 78 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 3: which they call criminal history, so that they can establish 79 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 3: a criminal history category. And that's how you go on. 80 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 3: There's a graph in the sentencing guidelines and it's like 81 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 3: you plot the offense factors against the criminal history and 82 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 3: that's where you come up with the same So he 83 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 3: doesn't have the kind of factors that exacerbate a sentence 84 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 3: like this. For example, he does not have a bunch 85 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: of prior felony convictions from which you would infer that 86 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 3: if he was trying to get a gun, it was 87 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: probably because he was up to no good. He's not 88 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 3: trying to obtain a gun that's extraordinarily destructive or at 89 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 3: least regarded as such under the guidelines. This is a 90 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 3: pretty conventional it's a cult Cobra thirty eight revolver, and 91 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 3: he may fit in the category of people who just 92 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 3: wanted to get the gun for sport and other legal purposes. 93 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 3: So he's going to be pretty low in the offense 94 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 3: category computation. I the way I figure it, he could 95 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 3: be as low as a sentence of zero to six months. 96 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 3: I see other people say, you know, fifteen to twenty 97 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 3: one months. But as you can tell, it's not going 98 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 3: to be very high. And he's in what we call 99 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 3: chrimeminal history category one because he doesn't have any prior 100 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 3: criminal convictions. 101 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 2: You can argue he probably should. 102 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, but but that's not that's different from different 103 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 3: from does you know, like even for example, he should 104 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 3: have gotten a dishonorable discharge from the military. Uh. And 105 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 3: of course somehow he got that job in the in 106 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 3: the Navy's press office even though he was too old, 107 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 3: because his father just happened to be the vice president. 108 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 3: And then after he got booted for cocaine, uh, he 109 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 3: somehow managed not to get a dishonorable discharge while his 110 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 3: father was vice president. God knows how that possibly could 111 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 3: have happened, right. 112 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 2: Weird, weird how that happens. 113 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know the fact is he's not like 114 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 3: a multiple felon. In fact, listening to the evidence, it 115 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 3: occurred to me that, you know, Haley Biden testified that 116 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: he's the one who got her hooked on crack, and 117 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 3: it seems to me that, you know, if you actually 118 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: charged him with what you could charge someone for distributing 119 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: narcotics to another person. You know, it doesn't have to 120 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,239 Speaker 3: be a financial transaction. If I hand you illegal drugs, 121 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 3: I've distributed them. So may you could argue that that's 122 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 3: probably more serious than anything he got convicted of in 123 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 3: terms of what the you know, the punishment structure is 124 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 3: in federal law. But this is a you know, the 125 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 3: three different crimes under the sentencing guidelines, because they're all 126 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 3: related to the same transaction. They would be treated as 127 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 3: one offense, and I think he's going to have very 128 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: low guidelines, anywhere from zero to six range, which would 129 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 3: mean the judge doesn't have to impose a prison sentence 130 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 3: to fifteen to twenty one months. And the only other 131 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 3: thing I'd say about at LISTA is it's important to 132 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: note that judges don't have to follow the sentencing guidelines, 133 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 3: but they tend to at least to approximate it. So 134 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 3: it's a much more reliable barometer for us than the 135 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 3: statutory range, which is very wide. And the other thing is, 136 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 3: in my experience, sentencing is the hardest thing that judges do, 137 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 3: and they tend to and I think this is a 138 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 3: very human thing. I think they tend to come to 139 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 3: it with the idea that just being convicted by a 140 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 3: jury of your peers, or admitting guilt in court, there's 141 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 3: a stigma attached to that that is in and of 142 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: itself punishment, and therefore they tend to sentence at the 143 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 3: low range of whatever the guidelines are. And you can 144 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 3: understand that, you know, sentencing another human being. It's one 145 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 3: thing to say I really disagree with this person politically, 146 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 3: or I really hate what this person did that was 147 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 3: proved in my courtroom. But now it's up to you 148 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,719 Speaker 3: to decide the course of another person's life. And that's 149 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 3: an awesome responsibility. And most of the time the judges are, 150 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 3: you know, reasonably lenient. I'm not saying ridiculously, so although 151 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 3: I've seen some of that too, well. 152 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 2: I assume too. 153 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the judge who blew up the 154 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: Sweetheart deal, so she has demonstrated you know, independence and 155 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: I think fairness. I mean, I would assume being the 156 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: president's son has to play a role in sentencing as well, right, 157 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: I mean that's you know, I mean, I would like 158 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: to think people are unbiased, but I would have to 159 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: imagine that plays a role. 160 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 3: Well, if it didn't, there would be something wrong because 161 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 3: what the law says is that. 162 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 2: They're not with Trump though that's the opposite direction. 163 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well but it's a factor, right. The what 164 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 3: the law says is that a sentencing judge can take 165 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 3: any relevant factor into account in terms of whether it's 166 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 3: something that should make the sentence more severe or less severe. 167 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 3: So you're supposed to be looking at the whole person, 168 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 3: the whole reason for looking at criminal history category. What 169 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 3: we mainly think about when we think about criminal history, 170 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: category is like how many priors does the guy have? 171 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 3: But in truth, what a sentencing judge does is size 172 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 3: up the entire individual. And what you're supposed to be 173 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 3: gauging in any sensible sentencing exercise is what's the likelihood 174 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 3: that in the future this person will recitivate, that he'll 175 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 3: continue to commit crimes, or is the likelihood that, you know, 176 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 3: if he's found the straight and narrow, he'll live a productive, 177 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 3: law abiding life and make a contribution to society. That's 178 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 3: why it's such a it's it's an awesome responsibility for 179 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 3: judges because those are very hard things to gauge, you know. 180 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: And then now he's facing his tax trial next September fifth, 181 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: facing three felony tax offenses and six misdemeanors. Probably got 182 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: lucky with that as well, given you know the scheme 183 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: of what iris whistleblowers have you know, expressed publicly about 184 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: how the doog has thwarted a lot of their attempts 185 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: to dig deeper and dig deeper into the Biden family 186 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: and potentially Joe Biden as well. What do you think 187 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: he's facing at that trial, and based off of the 188 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: evidence known how much trouble is he facing with that one. 189 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 3: Well, he's got serious trouble, which is why he tried 190 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 3: to plead guilty. You know, the gun thing is one thing. 191 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 3: They tried to make that disappear with a diversion arrangement, 192 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 3: even though really into Justice Department rules that offense shouldn't 193 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 3: have been subject to diversion. When I say diversion, that 194 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 3: means they divert the case out of the justice system 195 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: for an alternative resolution other than conviction in a legal proceeding, 196 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 3: so you know, probation or community service or you know, 197 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 3: just keeping your nose clean, that kind of thing. Whereas 198 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 3: the tax charges, he actually was ready to plead guilty 199 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 3: to two of them. Now, obviously he wanted to plead 200 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 3: guilty to them in the form misdemeanors, but the underlying 201 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 3: facts are the same. So the evidence against him is 202 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 3: sufficiently daunting that he himself, even though he doesn't want 203 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 3: to plead guilty to everything, was willing to plead guilty 204 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 3: to this. On the other hand, as you point out, 205 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 3: there's been a strategic delay in this case by the 206 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 3: Biden Justice Department and its trustee quote unquote special counsel 207 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 3: David Weiss, these are cases, you know, the evidence against Hunter, 208 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 3: and the gun case was known completely to law enforcement. 209 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 3: It happened on October twelfth, and they knew about it 210 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 3: by less than two weeks later. And the tax cases, 211 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 3: the tax problems that Hunter has had have been well known, 212 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 3: notorious for years and years, to the point where there 213 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 3: were leans on his house and all kinds of other stuff. 214 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 3: So that's a long winded way of saying. Almost everything 215 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 3: David Weiss needed to know to file charges and convict 216 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 3: in these cases was known in twenty nineteen, and he 217 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 3: intentionally sat on his hands. There's no other way of 218 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 3: interpreting it. And in the tax case, that had the 219 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 3: real effect of chewing up what was available to be 220 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: charged under the Statute of limitations, And I think that 221 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 3: was done deliberately. Some of the worst tax offenses and 222 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 3: potentially other offenses, not just tax, but let's just talk 223 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 3: about tax, because that's what they charged. Some of the 224 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 3: worst of those crimes happened in twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen, 225 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: when Joe Biden was vice president and when Hunter was 226 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 3: raking in millions of dollars from Barismo, which was actually 227 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 3: obviously buying access to Joe Biden. So because of the 228 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: way Weiss handled this case, those charges can't be brought. 229 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 3: He waited till the statute of limitations had passed, and 230 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 3: the way, just so people understand, the way prosecutors stop 231 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 3: the clock on the statute of limitations is you file charges. 232 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 3: So what I'm saying is everything they needed to know 233 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 3: to charge these crimes was known in twenty nineteen. He 234 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 3: sat and did nothing for years, and he was trying 235 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 3: to do nothing in the way of like do nothing 236 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 3: and make the case go away. And then the whistleblower 237 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 3: agents courageously came forward and talk publicly about the Biden 238 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 3: Justice Department interference in the case. At that point it 239 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 3: was politically untenable to make the case just disappear. So 240 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 3: that's when they tried the sweetheart plea deal. And only 241 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 3: when that blew up did Weiss actually file these charges. 242 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 3: But I think, Lisa, in the end, they're going to 243 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 3: win because to the extent that the idea here was 244 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 3: to make these cases go away, if you think about it. 245 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 3: In the gun case, Hunter is not going to be 246 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 3: sentenced till probably August, and and he has an appellate 247 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 3: issue under the Second Amendment that I think the judge 248 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 3: will allow him to have bail pending appeal while he 249 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 3: litigates that, which means any execution of his sentence if 250 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: he gets a prison sentence, will not happen until sometime 251 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 3: next year, meaning after the election. The tax case, I 252 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 3: can't imagine in a million years the Biden, whether it's 253 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 3: Hunter Biden or the White House, are going to want 254 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 3: to have that trial happen in September, in the run 255 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 3: up to the election, when early voting has already started. 256 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 3: I think he's got to plead that case out at 257 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 3: some point, but they will try to structure the plea 258 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 3: and schedule the plea so that he doesn't get sentenced 259 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 3: until after the election. So I think that the goal 260 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 3: here is to push everything past the election. And then 261 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 3: this ridiculous supposed vow that Joe Biden made that he 262 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 3: won't pardon his son. I don't think that will be 263 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 3: operative ten seconds after the polls close on November fifth, 264 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 3: And if Biden wins the election, then he can bide 265 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 3: his time and if Hunter gets a prison sentence, he 266 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 3: can pardon them at that point. If he loses the election, 267 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 3: then sometime between election day and inauguration day, Biden will 268 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 3: pardon his son. But you know the fact that Weiss 269 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 3: has delayed the way that he is delayed, I think 270 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 3: ensures that Hunter is not going to get the kind 271 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 3: of accountability and justice that people expect for people who 272 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 3: are put through the criminal justice system. 273 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: We've got more with Anny McCarthy, but first, since the 274 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: terror attacks in October seventh, anti Semitism has been on 275 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: the rise, not just in Israel but here in the 276 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: US and around the world. That's why I have partnered 277 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, and today 278 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: I'm coming to you, my audience, to ask that you 279 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: stand with us and IFCJ to raise your voice, just 280 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: as Oscar Schindler and Corey ten Boom did. This pledge 281 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: is asking Christians to stand with their Jewish brothers and sisters, 282 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: to never be silent, to show the Jewish people that 283 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: they are not alone, they have God and Christians on 284 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: their side. For the month of June, we are asking 285 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: Christians to sign this pledge, which will be delivered to 286 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: the President of Israel, to show that Christians in America 287 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: are not only standing in solidarity, but they're speaking up too. 288 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: Let's take a stand today with the International Fellowship of 289 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: Christians and Jews to let the Jewish people know that 290 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 1: they're not alone. To sign the pledge, go to support 291 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: IFCJ dot org, support IFCJ dot org to take a 292 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: stand today. Do you think that if Hunter did not 293 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: if he does not reach a plea deal, which I 294 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: think what you're saying makes a lot of sense, that 295 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: he would want to do that for political reasons, to 296 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: protect his dad, who has obviously protected him to a 297 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: great extent throughout his life and shielded him from, you know, 298 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: probably a lot of consequences that he should have been facing. 299 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: But if he did not reach a plea deal, would 300 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: Joe Biden be exposed? 301 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 2: And what we would learn from the tax trial? Do 302 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 2: you think? 303 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is why I don't think they can let 304 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 3: it go to trial. So Weiss, as I said to 305 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 3: somebody this morning, Weiss is the best defense lawyer that 306 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: Hunter has ever had. But his main objective in this investigation, 307 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 3: and the Biden Justice Department's objective has always been to 308 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 3: protect the president. That's first and foremost. They tried to 309 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 3: protect the president and bring Hunter along for the ride, 310 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 3: but that became politically undoable once the whistleblowers came forward. 311 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,239 Speaker 3: So even in prosecuting Hunter, they've kept the objective of 312 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 3: protecting the president front and center. So, for example, Weiss 313 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 3: writes finally a fifty six page indictment on the tax case, 314 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 3: it doesn't mention President Biden, even though what the tax 315 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 3: case is about is the invasion of tax on income 316 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 3: that Hunter earned by peddling Joe Biden's political influence. So 317 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 3: Joe Biden is a central figure to the case, but 318 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 3: he's not discussed in the indictment. The other thing, Lisa, 319 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 3: that Weiss did here that I think people are going 320 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 3: to be reminded of, even though it escaped a lot 321 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 3: of people's attention at the time. Do you remember that 322 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 3: the Sweetheart plea deal had a statement of facts in it. Yes, 323 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 3: So I'm convinced, having read that a few times, that 324 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 3: this never happens with federal prosecutors by the way they 325 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 3: control the plea process, including what the defendant is going 326 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 3: to say. If you're giving somebody a plea deal, you 327 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 3: tell them this is what we expect you to admit to, 328 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 3: and if you don't admit to it, there's no deal, 329 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 3: and we'll go to trial. So in this process, it 330 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 3: seems to me that Weiss allowed Hunter's lawyers to write 331 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 3: the statement of effect, which the government then stipulated to, 332 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,199 Speaker 3: meaning they agreed that that would be the statement of 333 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 3: facts that was presented to the court in connection with 334 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 3: the case. If you read that statement of facts, what 335 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 3: they say is that Hunter earned a lot of money 336 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 3: from these overseas associates and deals because he was a 337 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 3: high end lawyer and businessman. You don't get any sense 338 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 3: reading it that he earned it because he was a 339 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 3: ne'er do well drug addle failure who was cashing in 340 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 3: on his father's political influence, which is a lot closer 341 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 3: to the truth. So the defense is going to try 342 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 3: to say that Weiss is stuck with that version of 343 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 3: events because he already agreed to it in connection with 344 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 3: the POLA. But one way or the other, I don't 345 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 3: think the Biden people can afford in the run up 346 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 3: to the election to have a trial that's about Hunter 347 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 3: basically monetizing his father's political influence and then not paying 348 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 3: his fair share on that right. So I don't think 349 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 3: he'll I don't think he'll go to trial. And when 350 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 3: you say if they can't strike a plea deal. This 351 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 3: is how this is how cynical I've become about this. 352 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 2: I'm right there with you. 353 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 3: Why don't they try If he's going to be pardoned 354 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 3: anyway at the end of the rainbow, and he's never 355 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 3: really going to do a day in jail on this, 356 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 3: why not write before the election, or reasonably before the election, 357 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 3: like August September, announce a plea deal where Hunter is 358 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 3: going to plead guilty to two felonies, and the Biden 359 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 3: Justice Department, like they've done the last twenty four hours, 360 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 3: can run around, beat their chest and say, see, we 361 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 3: prosecuted the president's son without fear or favor. In the meantime, 362 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 3: they delayed it so long that he won't get sentenced 363 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 3: until after the election, and then his father will pardon them. 364 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 3: But at least before the election, they'll try to make 365 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 3: it look like this was a real serious, you know, 366 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 3: hard ass prosecution, and it'll all be play acting. 367 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: I think that is probably one hundred percent what's going 368 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: to happen. Unfortunately, you know, I think we've realized that 369 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: justice is not equal in America these days. I also 370 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you President Trump is facing his sentencing 371 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: on July eleventh. I am very concerned that he will 372 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: either get thrown in prison or under house arrest, that 373 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: they're going to use this to try to sideline him 374 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: from the campaign trail. 375 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 2: What are your. 376 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: Thoughts on that, and then also what does his appeals 377 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: process look like and are there any ways for him 378 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 1: to expedite that in a meaningful way ahead of the election. 379 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 3: So I think he's going to get a prison sentence, 380 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 3: but he's not going to be sent to prison. I 381 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 3: think that he will get bail pending appeal. In New York, 382 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 3: it's a non violent crime, you know. I mean, it's 383 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 3: when I say it's a crime, I'm you know, I'm 384 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 3: just reading off like a judgment docket. In terms of 385 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 3: whether it's really a crime. I think if you asked 386 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 3: any twenty people randomly on the street what he was 387 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 3: convicted of, they wouldn't be able to tell you. But 388 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 3: let's assume like we have a crime that he turned 389 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 3: into thirty four crimes and he's going to be sentenced. 390 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 3: I think that Merchan, who has shown himself to be 391 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 3: like a progressive performance artist on this case, notwithstanding that 392 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 3: it's against the code of ethics in New York to 393 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 3: sit on a case if you've given political contrib they're 394 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 3: not supposed to give political contributions at all. 395 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: So to group Stop Republicans, I mean, that's the group 396 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: that's one of the politically stop Republicans and Joe Biden, 397 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: it's like that tells the story, you know. 398 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: But yeah, all right, Agres. 399 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 3: And no, you're right. And even if his even if 400 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 3: his daughter wasn't making a very lucrative living as a 401 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 3: progressive political activist who does election work for Democrats who 402 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 3: defined themselves by the loathing of Trump, I mean, you 403 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 3: wouldn't even have to get into that. Just to judge, 404 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 3: his own contribution should have been enough to have him 405 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 3: off this case. So I think we know what we're 406 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 3: dealing with this judge in New York. Under these circumstances, 407 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 3: Trump should get bail pending appeal because he's got very 408 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 3: profound appellate issues in this case. So I think that 409 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 3: Merchon knows he's going to impose sentence, but that the 410 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 3: consequence of the sentence he imposes is not going to 411 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 3: have Trump actually going to jail. And to my mind, 412 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 3: and again, this is the cynicism we're left with after 413 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 3: watching this process unfold. I think that increases Merchon's incentive 414 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 3: to impose a prison sentence on Trump because he knows 415 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 3: it's not really going to have that effect, so why 416 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 3: not pose as a hero. That's what he's tried to 417 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 3: do all along. So I think he will give Trump 418 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 3: a prison sentence, but it won't be executed. Trump will 419 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 3: at bail pending appeal whether he and by the way, 420 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 3: Trump should not get a prison sentence for that crime. 421 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 3: In New York. We're talking about New York, where Alvin 422 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 3: Bragg is like the paragon progressive prosecutor. Don't ask me 423 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 3: to say that ten times fast, but he You know, 424 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 3: in New York, we have felonies that get pled down 425 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 3: to misdemeanors if they get prosecuted at all. We have 426 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 3: a district attorney whose default position is that you don't prosecute. 427 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 3: And yet in this case, he turned something that I 428 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 3: don't even think is a misdemeanor into thirty four felonies 429 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 3: with one hundred and thirty six years of prison exposure. 430 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 3: And I'm now doing the same thing I criticized a 431 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 3: second ago. Right, I'm highlighting the statutory exposure. But I 432 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 3: think the reason I'm doing it is because that's why 433 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 3: they did it. They wanted to say that, you know, 434 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 3: Trump's crimes were so serious that this would be what 435 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 3: he'd be facing. So this whole thing is just his theater. 436 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 3: And consistent with that, I think march On will impose 437 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 3: a prison sentence even though he shouldn't. It's a non 438 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 3: violent crime and it's a bookkeeping offense, which wouldn't even 439 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 3: normally be prosecuted in New York. So the thought that 440 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 3: anyone does five minutes in jail for this is laughable. 441 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 3: But the important thing with that, Lisa, is there's the 442 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,479 Speaker 3: charge that the grand jury brought, or the charges that 443 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 3: the grand jury brought, and then there's the charge that 444 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 3: Alvin Bragg told them was the center of the case, 445 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 3: which isn't in the indictment. So the indictment just has 446 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:47,239 Speaker 3: like thirty four falsification of business records, which is a 447 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 3: misdemeanor in New York, becomes a felony if you're trying 448 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 3: to conceal or commit another crime. But Bragg won't tell 449 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,719 Speaker 3: him in the indictment what the the felony is, and 450 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 3: in the meantime, Bragg, at the same time, the grand 451 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 3: jury indictment comes out issues to statement of facts, which 452 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 3: is his, not the grand juries in which he does. 453 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 3: This sort of fabulous recitation of a conspiracy to steal 454 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 3: the twenty seventeen twenty sixteen election. And it's amazing that 455 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 3: you could steal the twenty sixteen election by crimes that 456 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 3: you don't commit until twenty seventeen. But nobody should think 457 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 3: that logic has anything to do with what we saw 458 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 3: for the last six or eight weeks while that case 459 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 3: was going on. But when the New York prosecutors opened 460 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 3: to the jury, the first thing they said to them 461 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 3: was that this is a case about a conspiracy to 462 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 3: subvert the twenty sixteen election. The whole idea of business 463 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 3: records offenses was a complete afterthought. This case was presented 464 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 3: to the jury and to the judge as a successful 465 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 3: conspiracy to steal the election. To deprive the fraud here. 466 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 3: If you can believe this is because I keep asking, 467 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 3: what's the where is the beyond the reasonable doubt proof 468 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 3: of an intent to defraud? Who was defrauded here? And 469 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 3: Bragg's theory is the people of the United States were 470 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 3: defrauded out of the Hillary Clinton presidency. There's no you know, 471 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: there's no financial nobody. Uh, the state got every penny 472 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 3: of taxes that it was supposed to get and probably more. 473 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 3: There's no victim of fraud here. And I mentioned fraud 474 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 3: because you're supposed to The crime here, if that matters, 475 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 3: is falsification of business records with intent to defraud. And 476 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 3: the intent to defraud is supposed to include the concealment 477 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 3: of another crime. But you have to prove intent to 478 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 3: defraud beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't see it. But 479 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 3: Bragg's theory was the country was defrauded out of the 480 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 3: Hillary presidency. That would have happened if Trump hadn't concealed 481 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 3: these trusts that he had with these women by what 482 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 3: Bragg says were violations of the federal campaign finance laws. 483 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 3: But this is a long winded way of saying the 484 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 3: case is, it's presented to Judge march On, who will 485 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 3: impose sentence. Is not a penny anti business records fraud case. 486 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 3: They have described the worst conspiracy in the history of 487 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 3: the United States, a successful conspiracy to steal the presidency, 488 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 3: which they say worked. If that's the way they tee 489 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 3: it up for the judge, how does he not impose 490 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:40,479 Speaker 3: a prison sentence. 491 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: I guess what I'm worried about is he's going to 492 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: reach the same fate in the appeals process in liberal 493 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: New York that has it out from them in the 494 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: same way that Judge Majahn has as well. Is there 495 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: Do you agree with that? And then if so, how 496 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: can he expect to the Supreme Court? 497 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think two things about that. First of all, 498 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 3: the quality of justice in the trial courts in New 499 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 3: York is appalling, and that's largely because there are a 500 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 3: lot of them are political appointees. A lot of them 501 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,959 Speaker 3: are elected. I mean, the system is pervaded with politics. 502 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 3: So a lot of the trial judges, like Judge and 503 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 3: Goern is an elected judge, right, Judge merch On is 504 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 3: an appointed judge. But they're appointed by Club Democrats and 505 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 3: Democratic officials. So the whole thing in the trial section is, 506 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 3: you know, it's elected lawyers and appointed lawyers who are 507 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,959 Speaker 3: good Club Democrat lawyers who if they do the right 508 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 3: thing for the party long enough, they get on the 509 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 3: bench either through a an unopposed slot in the election 510 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 3: or they managed to get themselves appointed. And we get 511 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 3: a lot of stuff from the trial courts, that's awful. 512 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 3: As you go up in the New York system, the 513 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: quality gets better. The appellate division is significantly better than 514 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 3: the trial courts, and the Court of Appeals, which is 515 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 3: the highest court in New York, is better than the 516 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,479 Speaker 3: appellate division. And I think that's shown for example Lisa 517 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 3: by Harvey Weinstein, who is a very very unpopular figure, 518 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 3: like you could say that about Trump as well in 519 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 3: New York. And yet it took three or four years, 520 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 3: but they threw out his conviction because the trial was 521 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 3: utterly completely unfair. So it's just as delayed, but eventually 522 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 3: they came out to the right result. I think with Trump, 523 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 3: the thing is the appeals process is going to stretch 524 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 3: into years from now. By the time it gets decided, 525 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 3: Trump will either have lost the twenty twenty four election, 526 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 3: in which case they won't care about him that much anymore, 527 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 3: or he'll have won the twenty twenty four election, and 528 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 3: that'll mean everything in New York will probably be frozen 529 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 3: until after he'st of office, at which point they won't 530 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 3: care about him that much anymore. So I think what 531 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 3: the Democrats did this for the whole timing of it 532 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 3: was so that they could have a talking point going 533 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 3: into the election that Trump is a convicted felon, a 534 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 3: thirty four time convicted felon, and they've accomplished that, so 535 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 3: that can't be unwrung. But I think down the line 536 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 3: he will get better quality of justice in the appellate process. 537 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 3: That's already been evident by the way in the in 538 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 3: the civil fraud case where the Court of Appeal or 539 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 3: the Appellate Division in New York reversed anger On on 540 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,479 Speaker 3: a number of things he did during the trial and 541 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 3: then cut the bond that Trump had to post in 542 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 3: order to have his appeal. So you can see, you 543 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 3: get he's done better already in the appellate division than 544 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 3: he did in the trial court. And I expect that 545 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 3: to continue. 546 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 2: Can get your Supreme Court for that. 547 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: Is there any means to try to get the Supreme 548 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: Court to take it up given the significance to the country. 549 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 3: So this is a great question, and I know a 550 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 3: lot of people that we both know are trying to 551 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 3: brainstorm to do that. Here's the problem I think with 552 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 3: that that people are overlooking This case has already been 553 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 3: in federal court. You know, we're so riveted to what's 554 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 3: happened in the state court, because it was so egregious 555 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 3: that I think some people are forgetting some of the 556 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 3: important procedural history in the case. But if you remember, 557 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 3: Trump gets indicted I think in April of twenty twenty three, 558 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 3: and one of the first things he does is he 559 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 3: tries to remove the case to federal court. And his 560 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 3: theory there was that he had federal defenses because Bragg 561 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 3: was trying to enforce the campaign finance laws and a 562 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 3: lot of the activity happened while he was president. So 563 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 3: he goes into the Southern District of New York, my 564 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 3: old courthouse in Manhattan, and unfortunately for them, but for Trump, 565 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 3: the draw he gets is Judge Alvin Hellerstein, who is 566 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 3: a ninety year old senior judge Clinton appointee, and basically, 567 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 3: Hellerstein blesses everything that Bragg wanted to do, including to 568 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 3: enforce the federal campaign finance laws. Now, it was a 569 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 3: terrible decision, but it is a decision. So for like 570 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 3: these people who keep saying, we got to get this 571 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 3: case into federal court, what New York's going to come 572 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 3: back and say is this case was already in federal court. 573 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 3: We had to give Judge Hellerstein all of our theories 574 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,959 Speaker 3: for what we were prosecuting here, what the crimes were. 575 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 3: We had to give discovery to Trump about what the 576 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 3: other crime was that that we were alleging he concealed 577 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 3: by the business records fraud. So what they're going to 578 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 3: say is this has already got played out in federal court, 579 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 3: and because it did, it's going to make it much 580 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 3: more difficult for Trump at this point to try to 581 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 3: get out of the regular state appellate process and jump 582 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 3: into federal court on a theory that like the federal 583 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 3: courts have to intervene here because the state is gone rogue. 584 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 3: What the state's going to say is, we already ran 585 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 3: this past a federal court. That's how we got to 586 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 3: be able to do the case. 587 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: We've got to take a quick commercial break more with 588 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:41,959 Speaker 1: any McCarthy. On the other side, Alvin Bragg is going 589 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: to face the House Judiciary Committee on July twelfth, the 590 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: day after the sentencing. 591 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 2: Now, could anything. 592 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 1: That he says during this hearing help President Trump's appeal process, Like, 593 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: could anything come to light during that that could then 594 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: be used, uh, you know, evidence of bias or you 595 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: know what have you. 596 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,359 Speaker 3: I'm really surprised he's agreed to testify. Frankly, you know this. 597 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 3: This came up once before they tried to They tried 598 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 3: to make him come after the indictment, and he told 599 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 3: them to pound sand I was kind of expecting, uh, 600 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 3: he do that again. So I'm I'll be interested to 601 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 3: see if he if he says anything of note. I think, 602 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 3: you know, he's a clever enough guy that you know 603 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 3: he'll answer what he does when he wants to answer, 604 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 3: and then he won't answer anything that he doesn't want 605 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 3: to answer. Because the New York state system is not 606 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 3: under the supervision of Congress. And I must say, if 607 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 3: I was a state district attorney, and this is like 608 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 3: completely set apart from how I feel about Bragg or 609 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 3: any other state official. But if Congress, if I was 610 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:01,439 Speaker 3: a state district attorney and Congress subpoened me to come 611 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 3: and explain my charging decisions as a state official, I 612 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 3: tell him to screw themselves. I wouldn't. I wouldn't come, 613 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 3: I wouldn't testify. I'd let him. I'd say, you know, 614 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 3: good luck try and forcing it in court. 615 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 2: Is it a victory lap then? For him? Is that? 616 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: Do you think he's doing it as a to be spiteful, 617 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: you know, kind of a middle finger to Republicans kind 618 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: of thing. 619 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 3: No, No, I don't, well, I think there's a lot 620 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 3: of that, But you know, I think Democrats are very 621 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 3: good at playing this game. So I'm sure that Bragg 622 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 3: is coordinating with Jamie Raskin and like all the all 623 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 3: the kids who are on that committee, and they'll have 624 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 3: a very well orchestrated performance, and Bragg will look appropriately 625 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 3: combative when like whether it's Jim Jordan or Jamie Comer, 626 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 3: who else goes after him, And then he'll have a 627 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 3: whole they'll have a whole scripted performance with the Democrats 628 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 3: on the committee, and I'm sure he'll come off looking 629 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 3: pretty effective. But he won't tell them anything. I mean, 630 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 3: he doesn't have to tell them anything. He's a he's 631 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 3: he's an executive official who was elected by you know, 632 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,399 Speaker 3: all the you know, the big problems that we have 633 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 3: in this country are not legal problems. They're cultural problems. 634 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 3: You know. We have we have a situation where in 635 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 3: big blue states and cities, people now campaign on the 636 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 3: idea of elect me and I will use the powers 637 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 3: of our office against our political enemies. When I was 638 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 3: a young prosecutor in the eighties and Bob Morgenthal was 639 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 3: the state prosecutor there, that would have been disqualifying to 640 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 3: make an argument like that, And he got elected for 641 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 3: twenty five years because he would never in a million 642 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 3: years have done something like that. Now, these people like 643 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 3: Letitia James and Alvin Bragg campaign this way and they 644 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 3: get elected comfortably. So I think, you know, that's a 645 00:38:54,040 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 3: big problem. But he is an elected state official. He 646 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,240 Speaker 3: doesn't owe any answers to Congress. What I keep hearing 647 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 3: is that, well, they take federal money. You know, Congress 648 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 3: appropriates federal Well maybe they can ask him about how 649 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 3: he is using the federal money that he gets appropriated. 650 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 3: But I don't think he has to answer any questions 651 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 3: about his charging decisions. I wouldn't. 652 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: You know before we go, I'm really interested in hearing 653 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: your perspective on the justice system in America. You know, 654 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 1: you're someone who's really dedicated your life, your career to 655 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: the rule of law. I know it's something you take 656 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: very seriously. So after following the Trump case, what's your 657 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 1: viewpoint on America's justice system today? 658 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 3: So I wrote a piece for National Review that was 659 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,360 Speaker 3: called in Memory of Justice. I think it was a 660 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 3: day or two after this all ended, and it was 661 00:39:53,800 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 3: kind of a despondent essay. But I was covering the 662 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 3: trial with and speaking to a lot of people who, 663 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 3: like me, had their roots in the justice system. And 664 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 3: a lot of the people I would talk was talking 665 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 3: to have absolutely no use for Donald Trump. You know, 666 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,280 Speaker 3: they won't vote for him, their hostile to them, et cetera. 667 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 3: Not all of the people I'm talking to, but a 668 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 3: lot of them. You know, this was New York after all, 669 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 3: and yet those people were despondent as well, and it 670 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 3: was kind of I've referred to it as a as 671 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 3: a kind of they know not what they do moment, 672 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 3: because if you take Trump out of this, you can't 673 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 3: have a strong republic, a free republic, a flourishing, profitable, 674 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 3: rich society without the rule of law. And it's an 675 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 3: a essential building block. You know. Look every Western movie 676 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 3: that anyone's ever seen in America about like the country 677 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 3: as the you know, as the Frontier was expanding. The 678 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 3: first thing they do when they move into town, well, 679 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 3: the first thing they do is construct a saloon. But 680 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 3: the second thing they do is they have law enforcement right, 681 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 3: they have the sheriff, they have the whole. But that's 682 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 3: because everybody understands that if you don't have the rule 683 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,800 Speaker 3: of law, then you have the law of the jungle. 684 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 3: There's no you know, there's no middle ground. And the 685 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 3: essential building block of the rule of law is that 686 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 3: everybody believes that they get a fair shape. That is 687 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 3: that our first guiding principle is equal protection under the law. 688 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 3: That the bar of justice. To speak of it in 689 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 3: the kind of emotive tones that we often use in 690 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,240 Speaker 3: legal protection, but the bar of justice is where everybody 691 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 3: comes to get a fair shake and where the smallest, 692 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 3: most helpless citizen stands as an equal with the most 693 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 3: powerful government. If you lose that, you lose everything. And 694 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 3: what I don't think democrats and progressives realize is that 695 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 3: by turning this essential building block of a free and 696 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 3: prosperous society into a political weapon, they are threatening. They 697 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 3: may be beyond just threatening. They are threatening the legitimacy 698 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,800 Speaker 3: of it in the sense that people accept its outcomes 699 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,360 Speaker 3: as fair and just. And if you lose that, we 700 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 3: lose the system. And if we lose the system, we 701 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 3: lose the United States. So I don't think this is 702 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 3: about Trump. I think Trump is like, you know, he 703 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 3: shines a spotlight, as he often does, you know, I mean, 704 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 3: he shines a spotlight on a serious problem. But the 705 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 3: problem is not about Trump. The problem is about the 706 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 3: fact that culturally it's become acceptable to use the justice 707 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,720 Speaker 3: system that way. And the thing I worry most about, Lisa, 708 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 3: in terms of the country is that we're like two 709 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 3: ships passing in the night, in the sense that on 710 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 3: our side we're saying, you're using the justice system as 711 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,319 Speaker 3: a political weapon, where the process is the penalty, and 712 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 3: instead of saying nowhere not, the other side is saying, 713 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 3: you're damn right, we are. That's what we do, you know. 714 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 3: And in too many big cities in America where too 715 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,399 Speaker 3: many you know, look, millions and millions of people live 716 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 3: in these places, and they drive, they drive popular opinion 717 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 3: in the culture, but they think it's just peachy to 718 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 3: use the processes of the system in a punitive way 719 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,959 Speaker 3: against their political enemies. And anybody who thinks like there's 720 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,319 Speaker 3: a suy generous Trump law law where this is all 721 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 3: going to be cabin for Trump and it's only ever 722 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 3: going to be applied to Trump, and that the precedents 723 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 3: that they're setting in going after one political enemy won't 724 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 3: be used again and again and again against other political enemies. 725 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 3: As if Trump is their only political enemy. You're crazy 726 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 3: if that's what you think. 727 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 1: I totally agree, Annie McCarthy. I'm praying that you know, 728 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,320 Speaker 1: Americans are awake and we can turn this all around 729 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: in November and they realize that, you know, there's this 730 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 1: is so much more than just a political election. It 731 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: really is about the survival of the republic in my opinion. 732 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,360 Speaker 1: But you know, I hope people realize what you're saying. 733 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: You're You're not a partisan guy. You're just someone who 734 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: cares about the law. So I really hope people are 735 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,400 Speaker 1: paying attention to what you just said. Always appreciate you 736 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 1: coming on the show. 737 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,439 Speaker 3: It's always a pleasure, Lisa, Thanks so much. 738 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 2: It was Anny McCarthy. 739 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: I swear I always learned so much from him when 740 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: he comes on the show. Always just super interesting analysis 741 00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: and he is able to just really dig in and 742 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: let us know what's really going on. So appreciate so 743 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: much for him making the time. Appreciate you guys at 744 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 1: home for listening every Monday and Thursday. But of course 745 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: you can listen throughout the week. I want to think 746 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,440 Speaker 1: John Cassio and my producer for putting the show together 747 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:11,359 Speaker 1: Until next time.