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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: How many serial killers are walking amongst us? How many

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Speaker 2: serial killers yet to be caught? Has a prolific serial

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Speaker 2: killer been caught on tape? And are their more bodies

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Speaker 2: a Nancy Grace, This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us.

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Speaker 1: The search for Samantha Konig leads to a local park

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Speaker 1: as the kidnapper leaves a photo for police. What happened

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Speaker 1: to Samantha?

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Speaker 2: Little did Samantha's father know that photo that was left

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Speaker 2: along with a ransom note. It had Samantha a picture

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Speaker 2: with braids, and her dad immediately knew Samantha never wore

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Speaker 2: her hair like that. Little did her dad know at

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Speaker 2: the time he got the ransom note and he saw

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Speaker 2: the polaroid that Samantha was dead in the photo, her

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Speaker 2: eyes stitched open and makeup artfully applied. How many serial

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Speaker 2: killers are lurking amongst us? This guy is crayl Keys,

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Speaker 2: one of the most prolific serial killers to ever stalk

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Speaker 2: our country. Very rarely is a serial killer caught on tape.

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Speaker 2: But listen to this.

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Speaker 3: Shoes out on the river and it's like a river

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Speaker 3: you can flow down. I think people will do it

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Speaker 3: on inner tewers and so and it's just paint. It's

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Speaker 3: this more remote spot. She was like the last one

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Speaker 3: in her group, grabbing durn Polar shore.

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Speaker 2: He speaks of abducting one of his first victims. So

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Speaker 2: casually you are hearing the voice of a prolific serial

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Speaker 2: killer that's taught our country for so long, and the

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Speaker 2: bodies weren't even connected. Authorities didn't realize one guy is

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Speaker 2: responsible for a murder wave. Joining me an all star

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Speaker 2: panel before I let you hear more of the prolific

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Speaker 2: serial killer Israel Keys. I want to introduce a longtime

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Speaker 2: friend and colleague. As you may know, I was on

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Speaker 2: HLN for many many years and one of our star

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Speaker 2: producers was Andrew Eiden aka Drew Eiden, who joins us tonight.

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Speaker 2: He is now co host of the Deviant podcast. Andrew,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us, Thanks for having men

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Speaker 2: Thissrael Keys. Do you hear how casually he's describing He says,

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Speaker 2: she was out on the river, a river you can

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Speaker 2: float down with enerviews, and she was near the end.

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Speaker 2: It's just like the slowest gazelle, Drew. The slowest gazelle

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Speaker 2: is the one the hyena grabs yep, And that's exactly

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Speaker 2: what he does. I mean, if a hyena could talk,

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Speaker 2: it would be him. And he so casually grabs, like

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Speaker 2: describes grabbing her as the rest of the group goes await,

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Speaker 2: it's like, you know, yeah, drophe McDonald's, I got a

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Speaker 2: diet coke?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Are you surprised? And how casual he is.

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Speaker 4: It's it's really shocking. Honestly, when you listen to when

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Speaker 4: you listen to the hours of his conversations with authorities,

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Speaker 4: the thing that is so mind boggling is the is

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Speaker 4: the callous, cold, detached demeanor with which he outlines all

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Speaker 4: of his car and even some of the crimes that

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Speaker 4: he doesn't really confess to right he What we learned

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Speaker 4: listening to him talk to police is that he loves

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Speaker 4: to walk right up to the edge of a confession

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Speaker 4: and then stop right short of giving them the information

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Speaker 4: they need.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on true aka Andrew Eiden hold on just

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Speaker 2: a moment. We talked about this over and over on

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Speaker 2: the NG Show at Ahlman. Let me go to Daryl

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Speaker 2: Cohen Darryl Cohen, courum superstar, former felony prosecutor, now a

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Speaker 2: defense attorney. You can find him at Cohen Cooper EASTEP

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Speaker 2: and Allen Darryl. How many times did we have I mean,

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Speaker 2: a full fledged criminal, just a bad guy and he,

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Speaker 2: and it's typically a he. People say, why do you

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Speaker 2: hate man? I don't hate man. I just hate men

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Speaker 2: that commit violent crimes. He would go all the way

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Speaker 2: up to the moment and say something like, yeah, we

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Speaker 2: were driving along and I looked out at the wind

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Speaker 2: and I heard a gun shot and at that moment,

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Speaker 2: that one critical moment. As Andrew is describing Leji all

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Speaker 2: the way up to the moment of the murder and

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Speaker 2: then backs off Nancy.

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Speaker 5: So often because most or at least many of those

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Speaker 5: who have committed these enus crimes cannot admit it to themselves.

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Speaker 5: They believe that what they were doing was a story.

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Speaker 5: They were the fairy tale. They were wonderful people. And

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Speaker 5: oh my gosh, I don't know how that happened. The

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Speaker 5: gun went off. I didn't have the gun, did I really? Maybe? Sure?

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Speaker 5: Maybe perhaps these people?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, was that me that pulled the trigger. And you

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Speaker 2: know another thing, and I want to know if you've

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Speaker 2: noticed this. Babi Chacone is joining a special agent FBI.

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Speaker 2: Former special agent now screenwriter for Criminal Minds, and I

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Speaker 2: want to clue you into a new documentary you can find.

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Speaker 2: It's called After the Fall Little Old Did Bobby and

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Speaker 2: I know we were both in New York the day

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Speaker 2: of September eleven, and this is his painstakingly put together

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Speaker 2: documentary about that day. Bobby Chacone also helped fish the

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Speaker 2: body as I recall, dismembered in black plastic trash bags

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Speaker 2: out of an icy lake. It was you there, you

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Speaker 2: go on top of that ice, trying to pull up

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Speaker 2: the body parts of that Alaskan burist to cement the Koenig.

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Speaker 2: That was you, Bobby Chacone. What do you make of

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Speaker 2: what Drew was telling us about how Israel keys the

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Speaker 2: serial killer will go all the way up to the

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Speaker 2: point of the murder and then back off. And you

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Speaker 2: know what I've noticed also, Bobby, as you and I

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Speaker 2: have discussed, they very often want admit that they sexually

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Speaker 2: assaulted a victim, rape, sonomy, the whole thing. They leave

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Speaker 2: that part out. It's like they're more worried about that

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Speaker 2: than they are about the murder.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's really interesting where they draw the lines, right,

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Speaker 6: because they're so irrational when you try to figure out

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Speaker 6: the lines they want to draw. In this particular case,

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Speaker 6: when we were going up there to recover Samantha, we

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Speaker 6: were told that she had been dismembered and she was

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Speaker 6: in five separate pieces weighted down. But we were also

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Speaker 6: told that Keys made a demand that he did not

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Speaker 6: want that part of it leaked. He didn't want the

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Speaker 6: part that she had been dismembered leaked to the press,

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Speaker 6: so we had to be very careful. Normally we recover

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Speaker 6: a victim like this, we would bring each body part

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Speaker 6: up in a separate body bag for the medical examiner.

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Speaker 6: They don't like the commingled when they do their analysis.

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Speaker 6: But in this case we put Samantha oll in one

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Speaker 6: bag and brought it to the surface because the media

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Speaker 6: was at the shorelines with cameras and stuff, and we

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Speaker 6: didn't want to clue them in because Keys made that

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Speaker 6: demand that he didn't mind know that getting out there,

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Speaker 6: that you know, he sexual assaultant and murdered her, but

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Speaker 6: he didn't want his eleven year old daughter to know

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Speaker 6: that he had dismembered her. Really strange line that these

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Speaker 6: guys draw sometimes.

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Speaker 2: In security cam at the coffee shop where she worked.

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Speaker 2: It was a little pop up in the middle of

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Speaker 2: a parking lot. Really there is a shopping center around it,

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Speaker 2: a strip center, but the snow was so high at

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Speaker 2: that time no one within the center saw Keys approach

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Speaker 2: the pop up. These are the last known images of

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Speaker 2: Samantha Koenig, who was thrilled about the possibility of becoming

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Speaker 2: a veterinarian making money there at the coffee shop. I

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Speaker 2: guess he didn't want his daughter or anyone else to

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Speaker 2: know that he dismembered her. As to the sex attack,

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Speaker 2: that he blared loud music so no one inside the

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Speaker 2: home could hear him out in a hut outdoors raping her.

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Speaker 2: No one could hear cement the screaming. And I guess

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Speaker 2: did he not want Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst,

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Speaker 2: author of deal Breaker and star of Paris in Love.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany interesting that he didn't want anyone to know

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Speaker 2: he had dismembered Samantha, and Samantha is one of many.

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Speaker 2: That's how I found out about Israel Keys is through

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Speaker 2: Samantha Koenig investigation, and through Bobby Chicone and now through

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Speaker 2: Andrew Iiden. But it's interesting, doctor Bethany the choices serial

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Speaker 2: killers make about what they want publicized and what they

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Speaker 2: want to keep secret.

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Speaker 7: You know, it makes sense to me, Nancy, the questions

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Speaker 7: you've been asking, because first of all, he starts to

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Speaker 7: tell the story to the investigators and then he backs off.

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Speaker 7: I think he's doing that because he's trying to create

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Speaker 7: some excitement in the room and trying to kind of

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Speaker 7: tease them like cat and mouse. Look, the excitement he

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Speaker 7: had before was raping and killing. This is like small potatoes.

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Speaker 7: It's all he can get, but he's going to get

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Speaker 7: it as much as he he can. In the interview,

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Speaker 7: the fact that he is leaving out the sex assaults

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Speaker 7: is because he's trying to minimize the heinous nature of

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Speaker 7: what he did, and he doesn't want the public to

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Speaker 7: know that he dismembered Samantha Koenig because psychopaths are grandiose.

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Speaker 7: You know, he may feel that he's saying that he

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Speaker 7: doesn't want his daughter to find out, but I think

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Speaker 7: there's an inherent narcissism in psychopaths that's a part of

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Speaker 7: the disorder, and on some level, they sort of feel

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Speaker 7: proud of their acts. They feel they have fantasies that

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Speaker 7: they maybe celebrated, may go down in history, but oh

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Speaker 7: this dismember part doesn't make him look so good. So

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Speaker 7: he's kind trying to prop up his image a little bit.

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Speaker 2: There, going down in history, He's going nowhere but straight

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Speaker 2: to hell.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Back to you, Darryl Cohen talking about this guy trying

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Speaker 2: to build suspense as he tells his story. Normally I

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Speaker 2: would tell somebody that said that, well, you're crazy, because

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Speaker 2: most criminals are really dumb. They're not building suspense, they're

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Speaker 2: just idiots. This guy eluded police for decades. He had

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Speaker 2: killed kits hidden all over the country. He was never caught.

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Speaker 2: He had multiple mos modus operadi method of operation. He

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Speaker 2: would stalk campgrounds, he would stalk RV camps, he would

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Speaker 2: hang out at rivers like the victim we were just

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Speaker 2: hearing about. But then you've got a case like Samantha Koenig.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this guy probably is did lead authorities on

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Speaker 2: as he was telling his story.

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Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, he knew exactly what he was doing. He

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Speaker 5: was both bright, he was cunning, he was intelligent, vicious,

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Speaker 5: and a sociopath, a psychopath. He was all the paths

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Speaker 5: other than a good one, he knew how to elude

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Speaker 5: the police. He also knew how to elude all the

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Speaker 5: other law enforcement agencies. Because he didn't do it every day,

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Speaker 5: every week, every month. There was no pattern to his pattern,

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Speaker 5: if that makes any sense. So he was able to.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you this much. I guarantee you there

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Speaker 2: are more bodies. What can we learn? What can we

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Speaker 2: glean from hearing? You'll have to hold your nose to

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Speaker 2: do it, but listen to Israel.

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Speaker 3: Depends what your definitely said. So the first time you

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Speaker 3: had sex with somebody against their room, No, but that

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Speaker 3: was the first time I answered.

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Speaker 8: That level, like had someone tied up, you know, like

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Speaker 8: I was ready to actually kill.

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Speaker 9: Up to do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, did you hear what he just said? And by

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Speaker 2: the way, he's laughing and snickering during the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: Was this the first time he sex assaulted somebody?

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Speaker 10: Uh?

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Speaker 2: No, but it's the first time I took it to

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Speaker 2: that level, like to kill them. Yeah, to do that.

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Speaker 2: And he's laughing, he's snickering as he is saying that.

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Speaker 2: But let's let's take it back. How long had this

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Speaker 2: guy been committing murders? Listens?

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Speaker 8: Like I said, I got out of the Army, and

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Speaker 8: anytime i'd get to where I had downtime, or you know,

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Speaker 8: if I if I would leave Nia Bay, get out

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Speaker 8: of Nian Bay, and all that stuff was still there.

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Speaker 8: You know, like every time i'd drive and make a

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Speaker 8: drive somewhere, I'd be looking for places, good places to

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Speaker 8: do stuff.

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Speaker 2: I guarantee you to Andrew Iden, now, co host of

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Speaker 2: Deviant Podcast, I guarantee you there are more dead bodies

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Speaker 2: out there we haven't found yet, but the fact that

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Speaker 2: he was in the army. Has he been traced back

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Speaker 2: to wherever he was stationed, and has there been a

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Speaker 2: search for missing women, because it's always occasionally there'll be

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Speaker 2: a murdered man who was with a woman, but he

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Speaker 2: typically prayed on those that were weaker, less powerful, less

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Speaker 2: cunning than he. Andrew, have we heard of any searches

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Speaker 2: in the various places where he was stationed.

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Speaker 4: So what I can tell you is that the FBI

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Speaker 4: and all of the agencies that have been involved in

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Speaker 4: this case from the jump, they've gone to extreme lengths

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Speaker 4: to track down and talk to people that knew keys

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Speaker 4: in the army, So they have infiltrated his entire unit.

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Speaker 4: They've talked to his friends, they've talked to his fellow soldiers,

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Speaker 4: so they've gone into that corner of his life to

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Speaker 4: see if they can flip over some rocks and see

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Speaker 4: if there's anything to find. The other thing that I

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Speaker 4: can tell you is that when you talk to the FBI,

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Speaker 4: you know that video of Israel Keys in that interrogation

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Speaker 4: room that's dated twenty twelve. However, this case is still

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Speaker 4: considered active and open. When you talk to the FBI

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Speaker 4: about it, they are very clear, we need information. Is

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Speaker 4: this a guy that's ever come across your radar. There's

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Speaker 4: so much still that we don't know. So this is

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Speaker 4: not a case that is just in the rear view.

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Speaker 4: This is still very much an active investigator.

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Speaker 2: Samantha Koenig, a beautiful young barista at an Alaska and

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Speaker 2: coffee stand, suddenly goes missing that evening. Her father realizes

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Speaker 2: it's way too late for her to have been gone

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Speaker 2: all day and not spoken to him, and he raises

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Speaker 2: the alarm. Samantha Koenig just one of so so many victims.

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Speaker 2: I'm wanting to hear him speaking about how he finds

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Speaker 2: his victims.

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Speaker 9: I'ms out looking for trouble and that place that there's

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Speaker 9: staked out one actually two or three nights, and then

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Speaker 9: I had a park, a couple of parks here in town.

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Speaker 6: That I could ride my bike too at those staked out.

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Speaker 9: And yeah, there's still a couple downs during on a

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Speaker 9: shovel stashed.

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Speaker 2: Then he's describing one of his many, many kill kits

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Speaker 2: that he had stashed all around the country. Andrew Iden,

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Speaker 2: host of Deviant Podcast, explained.

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Speaker 4: This is a guy that would bury home deboat buckets

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Speaker 4: full of Dreno guns, ropes, chains. He'd bury them in Vermont,

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Speaker 4: he'd bury them in Wisconsin. He buried them in Wyoming.

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Speaker 4: And he would do that years in advance, and so

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Speaker 4: you know, he'd bury these, go back to Alaska, live

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Speaker 4: his life for days, weeks, months, years, and then go

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Speaker 4: back to Vermont, dig up that bucket, take it to Essex, Vermont.

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Speaker 4: And ultimately when he killed the couriers Bill in the rain,

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Speaker 4: you know that was with a kill kit that he

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Speaker 4: had buried years ahead of time. So that's really the

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Speaker 4: crux of this meticulous nature that we talk about.

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Speaker 2: And you know, Bobby Chacone joining us, former special agent

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Speaker 2: with the FBI, screenwriter his new documentary After the Fall,

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Speaker 2: which is an amazing word regarding nine to onein one.

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Speaker 2: He and I'm both in New York the day of

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Speaker 2: September eleven. His story is amazing. After the fall, Bobby

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Speaker 2: talking about what Andrew Iiden is describing, It's hard to

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Speaker 2: catch a guy like this. There's no connection to the victims,

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Speaker 2: which that makes it a n Eela and Haystack start

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Speaker 2: with he is killing people all across the country. There's

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Speaker 2: no region that has been immune to israel keys. And

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Speaker 2: he hunts his prey like a wolf. And then he

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Speaker 2: has these kill kits already created and hidden buried all

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Speaker 2: around the country.

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Speaker 6: Sure, and from an investigator standpoint, think of it because

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Speaker 6: we've seen cases where when you see when we find

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Speaker 6: a victim that's bound with rope or chain or something

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Speaker 6: like that, and we can tell, oh, this might have

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Speaker 6: been bought at a nearby, say home depot or hardware store.

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Speaker 6: We go out and we ask them to look at

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Speaker 6: their video from the last three months, six months, whatever.

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Speaker 6: Think about that. He's actually avoiding that investigative step because

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Speaker 6: these things will purchase probably years in advance and hidden,

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Speaker 6: So he knew not to buy these things locally and

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Speaker 6: not to buy them recently. But because that's what investigators

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Speaker 6: do because often we see, oh, they trace the received

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Speaker 6: or they trace something that was bought at a home depot,

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Speaker 6: and there's the killer on the video in the home

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Speaker 6: depot buying the things that they use it. So he

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Speaker 6: knew to avoid that. When I went to that homicide school,

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Speaker 6: I was working so many mafia cases in New York

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Speaker 6: that they sent me to the NMBD homicide School. You

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Speaker 6: draw a ven diagram. One circle contains the life of

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Speaker 6: the victim and all the people involved in that life,

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Speaker 6: and the other one, the other circle is the geographic

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Speaker 6: location where the victim is found or murdered and where

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Speaker 6: those two overlap. That's where your pool of suspect might

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Speaker 6: come in. Now he's new to stay random to his

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Speaker 6: victim and random to the geographic location. That puts him

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Speaker 6: outside of most In ninety five percent of the investigative

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Speaker 6: avenues that you're going to follow, he's going to be

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Speaker 6: outside of those because he's not related to the victim.

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Speaker 6: He doesn't have what most serial killers have. He doesn't

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Speaker 6: have that victimology and he doesn't have the geographic kill zone.

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Speaker 6: So those two things he knew to avoid and to

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Speaker 6: stay random and that was a big part of his success.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because in many, many cases where we have serial killers,

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Speaker 2: their mo never deviates. They are in the same region.

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Speaker 2: There is a way to connect them to their victims.

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Speaker 2: You know, he's been stalking them. He's the grocery store boy,

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Speaker 2: he delivery guy, the yard man. There is a way,

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Speaker 2: even though tangentle, that you can connect the killer to

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Speaker 2: multiple victims. Not in this case. Speaking of Israel Keys,

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Speaker 2: listen from the horse's mouth.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's not in anything, it's just ropes or something pulldment.

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Speaker 6: Is that the milk jugs? And he said, well that's

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Speaker 6: what the waits for. Milk jokes.

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Speaker 2: How many milk jugs and they're going to move around, no,

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Speaker 2: how many milk chokes.

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Speaker 3: You're talking about it.

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Speaker 6: At least four or five hour tank just for one body.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's Scott Peterson. You didn't have to go

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Speaker 2: to all that trouble making those cement blocks to wait

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Speaker 2: down the body of your wife, Lacy Peterson and her

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Speaker 2: unborn son Connor. You know, take a page out of

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Speaker 2: Israel Key's book. You just use milk jugs. You know,

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Speaker 2: when you think of the callous nature of the planning,

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Speaker 2: the pre planning before your victim has even been murdered,

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Speaker 2: You're already planning to weight down their body in water

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Speaker 2: to hide the body or destroy evidence. What could be

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Speaker 2: more cold, more calculating. Just think about it. As he

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Speaker 2: is spotting these victims, he's already made weights to hold

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Speaker 2: their bodies down underwater. Joining me now a very special guest,

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Speaker 2: a renowned medical examiner, the chief medical examiner at Terrence County.

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Speaker 2: That's fort worth, never a lack of business for him.

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Speaker 2: Also a prestigious lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine

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Speaker 2: at TCU, Doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you

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Speaker 2: for being with us. When a body is weighted down

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Speaker 2: in this manner, as you hear Israel Key say, so deep,

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Speaker 2: the fish don't even go down that far. He has

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Speaker 2: this very well planned. With the body down at the

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Speaker 2: bottom of a body of water, what will that do

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Speaker 2: to the evidence? Over a period of time.

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Speaker 11: In the depths of a lake, the body will continue

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Speaker 11: to decompose. If it's cold, it'll decompose at a slower rate.

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Speaker 11: But you'll also get fish and other aquatic creatures that

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Speaker 11: will eat at the body. So eventually the body will skeletonize.

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Speaker 11: The problem is with weighting the body down. You have

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Speaker 11: to have enough weight to compensate for when the body

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Speaker 11: decomposes and the gas formation begins, the body will bloat

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Speaker 11: or swell up like a balloon, and then will float

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Speaker 11: back up to the top of the surface. I've seen

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Speaker 11: people weighted down with paint cans that still float up,

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Speaker 11: cinder blocks, they'll still float up. Even a gentleman that

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Speaker 11: was wrapped in a carpet and shoved in a trash

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Speaker 11: can that was a duct tape shut. He still bobbed

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Speaker 11: up once he decomposed enough. So you have to have

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Speaker 11: enough weight to compensate for the decomposition, and they'll still

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Speaker 11: float up. But if they're underneath the water for a

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Speaker 11: long enough period of time, they will decompose, skeletonize, and

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Speaker 11: all the evidence will disappear.

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Speaker 10: James Koenig tries to be patient, but by twelve thirty

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Speaker 10: PM he's on the phone with the Anchorage Police Department

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Speaker 10: reporting his eighteen year old daughter, Samantha missing. He tells

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Speaker 10: police his daughter never came home the night before from

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Speaker 10: her job at common Grounds Espresso. Patrol Officers begin asking

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Speaker 10: questions in the area. No signs of a break in,

380
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Speaker 10: no struggle, no blood. Getting a look at surveillance video,

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Speaker 10: police see a masked man jumping through the window of

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Speaker 10: common Grounds and leading Samantha away.

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Speaker 2: Samantha Koenig's case brought a great deal of notoriety to

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Speaker 2: the killer. Little did authorities realize at the time of

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Speaker 2: her disappearance they were dealing with a very cunning serial killer.

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Speaker 10: Listen just before eight pm closing time at common Grounds

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Speaker 10: Coffee in Anchorage, Alaska, Israel, Keys walks up to the

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Speaker 10: parking lot kiosk and orders an Americano coffee. Eighteen year

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Speaker 10: old Samantha Koenig is finishing up her shift and it

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Speaker 10: looks like Keyes might be her last customer. Turning to

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Speaker 10: hand the man his coffee, Samantha Konig sees the gun

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Speaker 10: in his hand. Keys tells her it's robbery. To turn

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Speaker 10: off the lights. Keys reaches in and quickly at zip

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Speaker 10: top Cunning's hands behind her back and climbs through the

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Speaker 10: window into the kiosk.

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Speaker 2: And what is so amazing here? To doctor Bethany Marshall's psychoalyays,

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Speaker 2: joining us out of la is this is brazen There

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Speaker 2: as you can see are parking lights illuminating the area.

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Speaker 2: It's right on a very busy thoroughfare street. There's a

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Speaker 2: huge snowbank about six to twelve feet tall surrounding the

401
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Speaker 2: coffee shop. So many people didn't see what was going on.

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Speaker 2: But that takes a lot of hootspot to go in

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Speaker 2: where people can see you and attack the barista and

404
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Speaker 2: lead her out.

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Speaker 7: Nancy Israel Keys was becoming increasingly emboldened to act out

406
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Speaker 7: his sexual fantasies, his killing fantasies with these victims. So

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Speaker 7: he starts out in the army, you know, just kind

408
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Speaker 7: of trolling around looking for possible sites. But this becomes

409
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Speaker 7: a compulsion that's so deeply baked into his DNA that

410
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Speaker 7: he's thinking about it all the time, and it becomes

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Speaker 7: very ritualized. The search extends to all over the United States,

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Speaker 7: and it's almost as satisfying to search for victims to

413
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Speaker 7: bury the kill kits as it is to actually act

414
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Speaker 7: out the crime. But by the time he gets to

415
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Speaker 7: Samantha Konig, he's graduated. It's where people could see him.

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Speaker 7: He stitches her eyes open, he makes braids with her hair.

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Speaker 7: He does it in a shed right outside his family home.

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Speaker 7: So at this point It's like he's getting not only

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Speaker 7: more and more emboldened, but it's like a sex addict

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Speaker 7: that starts out going to strip clubs and then they

421
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Speaker 7: kind of rape somebody and then pretty much they start

422
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Speaker 7: graduating to children and kitty porn because they need more

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Speaker 7: and more and more in order to excite them. And

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Speaker 7: Nancy these interviews that we're seeing, I think he's talking

425
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Speaker 7: sort of calmly and matter of fact because he imagines

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Speaker 7: he's now the expert on killing. He's the world's leading expert.

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Speaker 7: It's kind of like a car collector who maybe has

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Speaker 7: two hundred cars and he's walking someone around and said,

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Speaker 7: you know, this one is made in nineteen sixty eight

430
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Speaker 7: and this is special stitching, and look at the paint job,

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Speaker 7: and that person knows their stuff. Israel Key feels like

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00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 7: he knows his stuff. So he's going to take time

433
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 7: with his interview so he can kind of educate the world.

434
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 7: Be the celebrity, be at the center of things. Like

435
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 7: I said earlier, go down in history. This is a

436
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 7: part of the ritual, is talking about it.

437
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 2: And let's just cut the chase here to Bobby Chicoh

438
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: and former Special Agent FBI and then to Drew Eiden,

439
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 2: co host of Deviant Bobby Chaconne, you know that as

440
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 2: he is telling his story to authorities, he's getting turned on.

441
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 2: As he's sitting there underneath that table. I don't want

442
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 2: to know what's under that table. I guarantee you. As

443
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 2: he is telling his story, he's reliving the rapes and

444
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: the murders.

445
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 3: Oh sure.

446
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 6: And you know that by his posture and by his attitude,

447
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 6: his language. And I think he's enjoying the fact that

448
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,239
Speaker 6: several of the investigators in the room of women, and

449
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 6: I think he's getting off on that as well. I

450
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 6: think this is his As doctor Bethany mentioned earlier, this

451
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 6: is kind of his last gasp. He knows he's he's no,

452
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 6: he's not getting out, and what little joy he can get,

453
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 6: his psychosexual joy he can get, is going.

454
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: To come in this boy, Bobby, get real from a

455
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 2: place as if you hadn't already been real. How many

456
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 2: times have you sat across from a defendant light Keys?

457
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: Actually I don't know that there is another defendant like Keys,

458
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 2: but a definant similar to Keys. And you know, as

459
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: you're talking to him and he's giving his story, he's

460
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: getting turned on. I don't guess you need your mind

461
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: to go to that extent about exactly what's happening under

462
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 2: that table. But you know it's true. It's oh really

463
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: because you and I know what a murder saying is

464
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 2: really like. It's not like in the movies. It's horrible,

465
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 2: but he likes it.

466
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, and at that point you I mean, you can

467
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 6: see a candy bar that they brought to him, you know,

468
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 6: on the table there. I mean, look, what what they're

469
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 6: doing is they are hyper focused. You know, Nancy, there's

470
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 6: a prosecutor in there that they're hyper focused at getting

471
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 6: him on the record to say things that are going

472
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 6: they're going to be able to use against him at a

473
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 6: court in proceedings. So all of that other stuff is

474
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 6: kind of you have to deal with it, but you

475
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 6: kind of put it aside because you need to get

476
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 6: the admissions, you need to get the confessions, you need

477
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 6: to get the statements he's going to say out of

478
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 6: his mouth. You can't kind of extrapolate it. You have

479
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 6: to get him to say those things. So you ask

480
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 6: him the question eight different times, get him to say

481
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 6: the words I kill them, you know, and that kind

482
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 6: of thing. So they're hyper focused on that and the

483
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 6: rest of that stuff you just have to deal with

484
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 6: kind of on the side in the background, and to

485
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 6: get him.

486
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: To okay, you know what, maybe you can set it aside,

487
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: Bobby checkone. But Andrew Iden, the co host of a

488
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: deviant podcast. Every time you play these caught on tape

489
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: videos and audio, you know that as he is describing

490
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,479
Speaker 2: the rapes and the murders, he's really liiving it in

491
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: his mind, and as doctor Bethany calls it, his arousal

492
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: is full on. So just keep that in mind when

493
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: you're watching him, because that's where he's coming from. That's

494
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: the way his mind works. To rape and murder somebody

495
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: and murder the husband and murder the boyfriend or whoever

496
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: else is around. That's his idea of dinner the mode.

497
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 6: Yeah.

498
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 4: And in fact, you know, when you look at him

499
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 4: having these conversations with law enforcement in the interrogation room,

500
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 4: you can see that. And one of the things we

501
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 4: learned in talking to Jeff Bell, who was a detective

502
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 4: in that room with the Anchorage PD. He told us

503
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 4: in the process of doing this this series is that

504
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 4: the chair that Key sat in there was a there

505
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 4: was a day that they were sitting in a wooden chair,

506
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 4: and he said, Key scratched the wood off of the

507
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 4: arms of the chair while he was retelling the story.

508
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 4: And he said, you could see the hair on his

509
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 4: arms standing up. And so it was apparent to Jeff Bell,

510
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 4: who's writ in that video, that he was seeing this

511
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 4: all unfold while Keys was telling him.

512
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

513
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: Andrew. I I'm totally going to listen to every every

514
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: single episode of Deviant because when you were just describing,

515
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: is your Keys scratching the wood on the chair as

516
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 2: he's telling the story Jackie, you know, Jackie and our

517
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 2: producer actually had to get rid of the shivers are off.

518
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 4: Yes, well, I was gonna say, I think oftentimes when

519
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 4: we talk about these stories, oftentimes there's a lot of

520
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 4: hyperbole involved and about in describing these things. But everything

521
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 4: that Israel Keys is is a real life horror film

522
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 4: from start to finish.

523
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 6: I mean, look at Nancy. If you look at that

524
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 6: video there you see on the left that Joline I

525
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 6: believe that's Jolene the FBI case A check. But you

526
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 6: can look at her posture, look at how she's you

527
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 6: can almost see how how repulse she is by this,

528
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 6: her hands are by her sides, by her sides, or

529
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 6: hands are in her lives. I mean you, as a

530
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 6: normal person, you know, being in the presence of such evil,

531
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 6: you you're affected by you repulse by it.

532
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: Of course, somebody like Israel Keys has to have the

533
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: perfect let me just say, perfectly outfitted vehicle.

534
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 10: Listen, the truck Israel Keys's driving has been temporarily modified.

535
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 10: Before he left the house. He removed the permanent toolbox

536
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 10: from the back and took off both license plates. Keys

537
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 10: demand Samantha Cone give him her ATM card, but she

538
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 10: tells him it's in the truck she shares with her

539
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 10: boyfriend at their house. Keys drives to his house, ties

540
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 10: up Coning in the shed, turns up the radio allows

541
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 10: so nobody can hear her scream, then leaves to retrieve

542
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 10: her ATM card from her truck. As Keys is retrieving

543
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 10: the ATM card, Samantha Cooning's boyfriend sees him and shouts

544
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 10: ducking into the house and get some help.

545
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: He tries to.

546
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 10: Confront the man messing with his truck, but when he

547
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 10: comes out of the house, he's is gone.

548
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 2: A narrow escape. But yes, he does escape, But what

549
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: about Samantha. Listen.

550
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 10: Samantha Coning is tied up in a shed in back

551
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 10: of the home Israel Keys shares with his girlfriend and

552
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 10: her daughter. When Keys arrives back at the shed, he

553
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 10: sexually assaults Samantha Konik twice. Then first thing in the morning,

554
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 10: he strangles her to death and puts her body in

555
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 10: a freezer. Then leaves with his girlfriend for a prebooked

556
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 10: family cruise vacation, leaving out of New Orleans.

557
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: Okay, that's like putting the leftovers from dinner into the

558
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: freezer then heading out on vacation. He did that to

559
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 2: Samantha's body, but he wasn't done yet. Listen.

560
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 10: Returning from his two week family vacation, Israel Keys removes

561
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 10: the now frozen corpse of Samantha Konik, using a hairdryer

562
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 10: to thaw her out. He uses makeup and braids her

563
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 10: hair to take a proof of life photo he's going

564
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 10: to use for the ransom. Taking a picture of Samantha,

565
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 10: Israel Key's arm is seen holding a copy of the

566
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 10: Anchorage Daily News from February twelfth. He places a black

567
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 10: and white copy of the photo in his ziplock baggy

568
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 10: with a ransom demand of thirty thousand dollars deposited into

569
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 10: the account of Samantha Konik and tapes it to a

570
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 10: missing dog poster in Connor's bog part.

571
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: And then Samantha's father is led to that park where

572
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: he sees the ransom photo and the money demand. Okay,

573
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 2: let me understand, is Andrew Iden joining us co host

574
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: of Deviant podcast. He uses a hair dryer to thaw

575
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 2: out her body.

576
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, the details of what he did after he got

577
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 4: back from that Houston that cruise are horrific. And disposing

578
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 4: of her body in the lake after he had pulled

579
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 4: her remains out of that shed, that period after the

580
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 4: cruise for about two weeks is truly some of the

581
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 4: most terrific things that I've ever read and never heard

582
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 4: in covering crime for twenty years.

583
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 2: What aspect are you describing? Are you to which you

584
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 2: are referring Andrew.

585
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 4: Well, it's the process of him dumping her body in

586
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 4: the lake piece by piece and basically making sure that

587
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 4: all of the things that he did are it up.

588
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 4: And it's just it's horrific. I mean, it's a horror film.

589
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 2: Like I mentioned before, Doctor Bethony jump In if.

590
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 7: We think of raping and killing as a part of

591
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 7: a sexual act for him, that the whole ritual is arousing.

592
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 7: I think what happened is that he had to do

593
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 7: it right before the cruise because he know that he

594
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 7: knew that on the cruise he wouldn't be able to

595
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 7: act out his killing homicidal instinct. It's a little bit

596
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 7: like with alcoholics we see sometimes the night before they

597
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 7: go into detox or rehab, they binge. This was like

598
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 7: his binge before appearing with sobriety, and he was probably

599
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 7: thinking about it all throughout the cruise and planning his return.

600
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns, can't you look at a body and

601
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 2: determine whether it has been frozen?

602
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 11: You can look at a body and when someone dies

603
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 11: of hyper hypothermia, you can tell that there are changes

604
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 11: about the body that kind of turn a reddish pink color.

605
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,240
Speaker 11: If a body's been frozen, the lividity or the post

606
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 11: mortem coloration change will be kind of a bright red color.

607
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 11: But beyond that, there is not really any changes that

608
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 11: you can see with a frozen body that are specific

609
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 11: to that.

610
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 10: After getting a confession from Israel Keys, the FBI dive

611
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 10: team is tasked with attempting to recover Samantha Konig's body

612
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 10: from frozen Mattatanuska Lake. Before a search can begin, a

613
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 10: four foot by four foot hole is cut in the

614
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 10: ice with chainsaws. The FBI dive team resorts to using

615
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 10: sonar to guide them in low visibility, and it takes

616
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 10: the team of experts about ten hours to recover the

617
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 10: body of Samantha cone Enter.

618
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 2: A former FBI special agent, Bobby Chacone, now screenwriter for

619
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: Criminal Minds and creator of a new documentary After the Fall,

620
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 2: Bobby described what it was like out there, what you

621
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 2: went through try to retrieve Samantha Koenig's body.

622
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, first of all, it was the brightest, clearest,

623
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 6: most beautiful day. And that was the dichotomy of the situation,

624
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 6: was that we were in this immensely beautiful location with

625
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 6: the mountains and the snow, and we were doing this

626
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 6: horrific mission to recover this poor young woman. You know,

627
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 6: when it was tough. The conditions were tough, but we've

628
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 6: done this before. We certainly dived in tougher conditions. But

629
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 6: it wasn't that deep. It was about forty five feet deep.

630
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 6: The entire dive took about forty five minutes. It wasn't

631
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 6: a It was long to set up. You see, whenever

632
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 6: you're working around ice and a holes, everybody has to

633
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 6: be tethered in somewhere to a hard point so if

634
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 6: you fall in, so there's this safety considerations. But the

635
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 6: dive itself was not that difficult. Everything matched exactly what

636
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 6: Keys told us it was in the location. We saw

637
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 6: the five different parts that he told us about. It

638
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 6: was a torso there was two legs, there was two

639
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 6: arms that were down together as one, and that was

640
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 6: her head. And so those are the five pieces that

641
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 6: showed up on the sonar. We sent a small mini

642
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 6: RV down with a camera to make sure it was

643
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 6: human remains. And then once we did those two methods,

644
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 6: then ice splashed the divers and that dive took about

645
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 6: forty five minutes. Again, like I said, it would have

646
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 6: taken longer, but we were able to put Samantha Aill

647
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 6: into one body bag because of the fact that Keys

648
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 6: had made that demand on us not to tip off

649
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 6: the press that she had been dismembered. But certainly when

650
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 6: I handled Samantha's remains, I could tell that some of

651
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 6: the water had washed off, and I saw the stitching

652
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 6: on her eyelids as I was transferring her to the

653
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 6: possession of the medical examiners investigators who were there taking

654
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 6: possession of her remains.

655
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: And then we find out in a completely different mo

656
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 2: method of operation than murders of Bill and Lorank Courier.

657
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 10: Listen, during a vacation to Vermont, Israel, Keys berries a

658
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 10: five gallon orange bucket filled with zip ties, ammunition guns, silencers,

659
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 10: draino duct tape, and a flashlight in her remote corner

660
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 10: of the woodside natural area off Vermont fifteen. Over the years,

661
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 10: Keys has buried several kill kids in places he's been traveling.

662
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 10: Years later, Keys digs up the kit in Vermont out

663
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 10: the home of Bill and Lorraine Courier. There are no

664
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 10: children in the home and it's within walking distance of

665
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 10: his hotel.

666
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 2: Andrew Iiden, co host of Deviant Podcast, I've got too

667
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: many Keys's victims, and there's still so many other victims

668
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: that we don't know about, haven't found their bodies yet.

669
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 2: But here we see a start dichotomy in the way

670
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,919
Speaker 2: he murdered and dismembered Samantha Koenig and the way he

671
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 2: murdered and left the couriers, explained about the couriers.

672
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Bill and the Rain would lived in Essex, Vermont,

673
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 4: and Israel Keys talked at length about waiting outside their home,

674
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,280
Speaker 4: cutting the phone line to disable the security system, kidnapping

675
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 4: them essentially, and taking them a few miles away to

676
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 4: an abandoned farmhouse, and that's where he sexually assaulted Lorraine,

677
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 4: strangled her, and actually shot Bill in the midst of it.

678
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 4: Kind of a struggle they were having in the house,

679
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 4: and he left their remains there. So you're right, Bill

680
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 4: and the Rain in that crime is everything that Samantha

681
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 4: Koenig was not right. It was two, it was instead

682
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 4: of one. They were older, Samantha was younger. You know,

683
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 4: they were in Vermont, Samantha was in Alaska. So there's

684
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 4: really kind of a dichotomy between these two crimes, as

685
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 4: you mentioned with mo, they're two very different crimes in

686
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 4: a lot of different ways.

687
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: We know of the eleven to which he has admitted,

688
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 2: and we believe there is somewhere that we'll be discovered

689
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 2: at some point somewhere between twenty and thirty bodies Israel

690
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: Keys serial killer. Thank you so much to the guests

691
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 2: joining us today, but especially to you, Nancy Grace signing off,

692
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 2: good night friend,