1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: I've never told your production of IHI Radio. Before we 3 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: get too deep into this episode, just a quick trigger 4 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: warning that we are going to be talking about some 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: instances of sexual assaults, abuse and things that are related 6 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: to that. So if that is a trigger for you, 7 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: also some violence in these songs. If that is a 8 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: trigger for you, then here's your warning. Just so you know. Samantha, 9 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: were you ever into emo or pop punk music? Oh? Yeah, 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I definitely was that girl who felt all 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: those emo motions. Of course, like you couldn't tell by 12 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: what I would wear. I wasn't that into it, but yeah, 13 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: I definitely had some dashboard confessional and all of these 14 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: such in my repertoire. What about you, Oh oh yes, 15 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: I was so into it. I did wear the clothes, 16 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: I did the eye makeup, I had the studied felt. 17 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: I painted my nails like black and red. For a while, 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: all I wore was pretty much black with like accents 19 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: of red in it. And this was when I was 20 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: in high school. This is when I was super into it, 21 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: and I I remember introducing my very very confused high 22 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: school teacher to the term emo and she was like, 23 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: I guess I'll add that to my dictionary. And I 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: got some autographs. I interviewed Gerard Way of my Chemical Romance, 25 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: but that was I was dressed as when Your Soldier. 26 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: That was much later. Um, I joined an emo band 27 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: of my own, and I still feel very nostalgic for 28 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: a lot of these songs. I've seen them at karaoke. 29 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: I listened to them when I'm sad I need to 30 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: built something out. I still have the band shirts. But yeah, 31 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: since I've gotten older and more and more allegations have 32 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: come out, largely about male members of these bands of 33 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: abuse and grimming sexual assault, it has kind of made 34 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: it harder to listen to some of this music, especially 35 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: if the lyrics are kind of stockery or abusive. And 36 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: it's especially complicated because I did form a lot of 37 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: close bonds with women over this music and over these concerts, 38 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: and I mean we still talk about like all of 39 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,839 Speaker 1: the music vessels we went to and now we've made 40 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: it all these different Green Day concerts, which they're slightly different, 41 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: I will say them what we're talking about here, but 42 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: they had an emo phase. And yeah, now knowing that 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: there is a lot of abuse within this world and 44 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: that has made some of it uncomfortable. And I did 45 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: listen to a lot of songs from my youth for 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: this and it it brought back the memory as it should. Uh. 47 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: My partner and I sat one day and listen to 48 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: a lot of the nineties, uh in early two thousand 49 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: songs that we used to love, including like Coheed and 50 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: Cambria and all of that. And for some reason, a 51 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: lot lot of that led into like Christian alternatives and 52 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: so I have because I grew up as a high 53 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: schooler who was all about Jesus that I had all 54 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: of that music because I was super cool. So I'm 55 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: going to leave it at that. But like that was 56 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: the same thing. And a lot of the things that 57 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: we're talking about about the misogyny was in these little 58 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: Christian punk bands that made me go, what you would 59 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: think that wouldn't be the case. Let's be honest, Like, 60 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: there's a lot of hypocrisy, and we know this, and 61 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: if you've been a part of that culture, you understood that. 62 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: But it still was so disappointing when you read half 63 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: of the things that you're like, yeah, and it's it's 64 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: strange when you because this was a very formative time 65 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: for me, like that I identified with the music so closely, 66 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: and then you listen to it as an adult and 67 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: you're like, wow, this is really violent and hateful towards 68 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: the women, right wow, And I guess I didn't there 69 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: was something at the time heavy quotes romantic about feeling 70 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: that level of emotion. It is and you won't really 71 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: just want to be a big part of it, you know, 72 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: one of the big things, and we're gonna get into 73 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: it more. But I just remembered a moment where one 74 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: of the big bands, which was called Reliant K that's 75 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: come over into the popular contemporary stuff and mainstream stuff. 76 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: And then the woman who was a DJ in Atlanta 77 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: who was engaged to the lead singer and she was 78 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: so excited, was doing a whole segment about wedding planning 79 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: and talking about how it was so romantic. It turned 80 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: out he cheated on her with a fan, and it 81 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: was it just got splashed everywhere, and I was like, oh, dude, 82 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: huge mistake and dating a radio like celebrity who just 83 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: called your out and all of your fans are probably 84 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: beyond disappointed because not only did you take advantage of 85 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: this fan, I think, but you broke this woman's heart 86 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: who talked about how holy your relationship was row But 87 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: that's a whole different story. But it does stuff like 88 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: that that as you're like, yeah, these good guys were 89 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: emotional all right and took advantage of everybody else's emotional stuff. 90 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: Let's go backwards a little bit. Talk about definition, because 91 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: we love a definition. What is emo? Slash pop punk? 92 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: From a twenty fourteen paper by Sam du bois called 93 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: Cheer Up Emo Kid, Rethinking the Crisis of Masculinity and Emo, 94 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: he writes, Emo and abbreviation for emotional is a term 95 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: both used to describe music which places public emphasis on 96 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: introspective displays of emotion, and a pejoritive phrase applied to 97 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: fans for a diverse range of music. It's overwhelmingly male 98 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: dominated in terms of production, and it has been suggested 99 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: that the development of EMO can be flamed with a 100 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,799 Speaker 1: reference to a quote crisis of masculinity. The term first 101 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: originated in the nineteen eighties to describe hardcore emotional punk, 102 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: though we're largely talking about the third wave of EMO 103 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: in the early two thousand's. Yeah, so well, the bands 104 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: we're talking about specifically right now, that's what we're talking about. 105 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: And the article goes to examine fears around identity queering 106 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: and the asiminization of mostly young men. And remember the 107 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: whole guideliner panic. And we're still talking about it because 108 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: I still hear people talking about it to this day. Yes, 109 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: and actually people have speculated about the masculine stances and performances. 110 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: So there's like the foul guitar and the wide legs 111 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: stance of so called cock rock a alongside the tight 112 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 1: jeans and unisex hoities and guideliner of so gender bending 113 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: oh somewhat. And what that means the debate is ongoing. 114 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: I mean, this stuff is being talked about right now. Yeah. 115 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: I just remember distinctly having an argument with my brother 116 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: if I liked somebody, I think Jared Leto And this 117 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: was before he became a band, Like he was always 118 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: part of the band. He wasn't big in the music 119 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: yet this was his, uh my so called life, and 120 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: he was kind of that emo kid. He was that emo, 121 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: disenfranchised outsider that I was like, yes, but he definitely 122 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: like had the eyeliner, has some female polished And my 123 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: brother was like, what's wrong with you. He dresses like 124 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: a girl, like he's in touch with his female side. 125 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: You don't know him because I also got to fight 126 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: with somebody about Jared Letto that was kind of similar, 127 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: and I ended up getting his autograph from thirty seconds 128 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: Tomorrow's Days. But let me tell you, I've never frozen 129 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: so hard with the celebrity before where I was like, 130 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: oh my god, what am I doing here? I want 131 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: this moment to end right now. This is so weird. 132 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: I've not gone there, but as we find those moments 133 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: interesting by the way. Pop punk is defined by the 134 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: Cultural Wiki like This. Pop punk, also known as punk pop, 135 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: is a music genre that fuses elements of punk rock 136 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: and pop music. It typically combines fast tempos, loud and 137 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: distorted electric guitars, and power chord changes with pop influenced melodies, 138 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: vocal styles, and lytrical themes, which I believe us at 139 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: you a sample of a we talked about previously. You 140 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: did because one of the reasons we wanted to talk 141 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: about this was because we kind of touched on it 142 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: in our episode on Jennifer's Body, and there's that kind 143 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: of the whole theme of the the Emo Band, and 144 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:37,599 Speaker 1: then sacrificing her for emo fame. And we learned that 145 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: Samantha had some songs with lyrics that she lended to 146 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: them or that we're about her, and she said one 147 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: to me and I listen to it. It absolutely is 148 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: punk rock pop punk. I don't think he would like 149 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: that's how we're defining it, because he wants to be 150 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: kind of outside of that. It is now what we 151 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: would probably regard as indie indie rock, But I learned 152 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: many genres within those, like shoe gazers and all of 153 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: that stuff that I was like, what is happening? Why 154 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: there's so many titles and or related types of things, 155 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: What is happening? So, yeah, you're welcome, Amy. No one 156 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: else will be able to hear those, but you're welcome. Yes, 157 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: if that guy is randomly listening, I was the person 158 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: who listened to it randomly. You got a notification. And 159 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: I do want to say also kind of going along 160 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: with that. EMO while describing a type of music, is 161 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: also used frequently to describe kind of the fans, so 162 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: it can get murky when you're talking about it like that, 163 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: and a lot of people described it in a way 164 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: that I felt targeted by but was absolutely true, which 165 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: is kind of like mall hot topic set, the mall 166 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: hot topics set, and that is what I was. I 167 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: had a hot topic punch card. Oh. I got up 168 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: in the generation that that was the devil oh, and 169 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: I could not go in there really. I mean, my 170 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: parents wouldn't go in there, like you go way up there. 171 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: I would not let me go wow. And then by 172 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: the time I was old enough to do so, I 173 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: was like, no, I'm good. I'll go in occasionally now. 174 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: And it's just such a throwback and it's such a 175 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: like I remember being in here and wanting because I 176 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: couldn't afford a lot of stuff in there. It's expensive. 177 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: But the green day jacket that I wear to this 178 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: stage is from Hot Topic. The zip up forty bucks. 179 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: I saved up for that one and I still wear it. 180 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: She still wears it, y'all, and it's intact like it 181 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: is still a good condition. I like it because as 182 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: pockets and you can zip it and on zip it's nice. 183 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: But that's that reminds me of another funny story where 184 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: I think in high school I dressed as essentially a 185 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: really emo kid, and this we didn't get many trick 186 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: or treaters in my neighborhood. But doorbell rang and I 187 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: answered it, and it was a young mother and her 188 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: like maybe two year old daughter who was dressed as 189 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz, and they both looked 190 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: terrified of me, like I could see immediately. The mother 191 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: was like, this is a mistake. We're gonna leave. And 192 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: then I'm like candy and they're like no. So there 193 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: was kind of that that vibe too, especially in conservative 194 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: areas of it being like, I don't know, risky, risque 195 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: or dangerous or devil related. All these kids wearing all black, 196 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: they're studded belts, studded belts, and the funny thing was 197 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: you had to take off the studded belt to get 198 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: into the concert, and then at the end there'd be 199 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: just like this huge thing of studded belts, so you'd 200 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: like put your initials on your belt so you could 201 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: find it. But we all were it for the way 202 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: to get line, to get in because it was a 203 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: piece of our identity, which is part of the pain 204 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: of why why um we as a lot of us 205 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: as young fans, were taking advantage of And I did 206 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: want to mention before we go on here. This was 207 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: a listener suggestion, so Beck wrote in A topic I 208 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: think would be interesting to cover would be about the 209 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: emo scene music scene from the year's two thousand three 210 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: to two thousand twelvesh This article briefly covers what it 211 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: was like growing up as a girl teen and being 212 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: exupposed to the culture that was essentially ruled by misogynistic men. 213 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 1: A simple lyrics breakdown of popular emo seen songs from 214 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: this era is enough to say that women were treated 215 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: like objects to appease men, especially if they didn't reciprocate 216 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: their feelings for them. Topics of abuse, murder, and the 217 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: copious amount of gas lighting was a common theme. And 218 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: most of the songs from this era and yeah, we're 219 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: we're about to get into some lyrics here in a second, 220 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: but yeah, a lot of these songs focus on boys, 221 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: um are men's bodies, particularly white straight systsmen on their 222 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: fears of rejection or on the actual rejection, on their 223 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: hurt or anger at women, on sexualizing women's bodies, or 224 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 1: blaming their in happiness and or pain on women. People 225 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: who have traced the history of punk, pop, punk and 226 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: emo over the years often point out that email and 227 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: pop punk weren't always this way. The songs used to 228 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,719 Speaker 1: give women's names, and it would give these women autonomy 229 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: and death people who weren't super idealized and on a pedestal, 230 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: which is also part of what we're talking about here 231 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: in these third wave EMO songs. But then something shifted 232 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: in the two thousands and EMAO albums largely became about 233 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: men's heartbreak and the nameless women at the cause of it. 234 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: As the enemy. Women existed in these songs as simply 235 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: an object that messed with men's hearts and lives, as 236 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: either the perfect woman or mused and that's sort of 237 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: like the best uh end of the spectrum, or the 238 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: vessel for their spirm or like hatred part of the 239 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: men's story. That's what they served these women in these songs, 240 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: a possession to be one or lost, blaming women and 241 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: only women for their emotional state, which feels very telling 242 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: of the songwriter's views on women. There's a lot of 243 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: gas lighting and slut shaming in them. Um Email and 244 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: pop punk became another boys club because, as you noticed, 245 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about men writing these songs, and that's because 246 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: that was largely the case, and this boys club was 247 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: one that looked down on the girls and women fans 248 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: who made up their fan base. As Warped Tour, six 249 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: percent of bands featured a single woman in their numbers 250 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: over the band line up. And that's doing anything while 251 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: the crowd was a majority female at fifty m Yes 252 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: a lot. In general, it does. I did go to 253 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: Warped Tour one time and it was so hot. That's 254 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: what I remember was that it was hot and I 255 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: got a really cool shirt. But that's it. I will 256 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: say I didn't go. I don't go to the couse 257 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: hearts much and I still don't. It's too crowded for me. 258 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: Like I knew then that I couldn't handle it and 259 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: I still know today. And also chilling out a lot 260 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: of money for a concert never made sense to me. 261 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: I'm too practical and too cynical, and like, I don't 262 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: want to be in a crowd where I can't see 263 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: somebody and barely hear the music and I'm getting touched 264 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: all the time. I don't. I don't want to. But 265 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: a few times that it did go was because it 266 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: was free or it was convenient, And again it included 267 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: like switch Foot Reliant K I went to see them, 268 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: I think a couple of times. I also went to 269 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: see a Weezer oh yeah, but because they were performing 270 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: in Atlanta for free and we were like just there. 271 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, what's happening? Did you go downtown? 272 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: I think so. I think it was during the it 273 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: was centennial when they were having the free shows essentially, 274 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: and I was at a restaurant and hanging out like. 275 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: It was awesome because we were at a restaurant doing something. 276 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: I think we thought something was happening. We didn't exactly where, 277 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: and then we showed up and we ended up going 278 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: to a restaurant eating and then the show happened and 279 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: we were right to the side of them. Then we 280 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: could see them perfectly. I was like, oh cool, yes, yeah, yeah. 281 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: I went to all of those two. I think also 282 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: all three shows. What if we crossed paths? We did. 283 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: We did these emo shows and I can't remember the 284 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: band I was at. It was a switch Foot concert, 285 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: but they were multiple bands there, and I only remember Switchfoot, 286 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: but they were all Christian bands, and one of them 287 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: was like shouting into the microphone news like it's so 288 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: cool not to have sex and I'm to serve yourself 289 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: for marriage, and we're all like, because he was like 290 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: shouting at a five Iron Frenzy because that was my 291 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: go to band of my high school. Five on Frenzy 292 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: was the ship to me? What was it talk? Was 293 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: it DC talk? I wonder if I could find this 294 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: old line up because it was at North Grgia College 295 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: where my dad taught that. I didn't go to that one. Well, yeah, 296 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: but I wonder if it had a similar right, A 297 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: switch Foot, Reliant, k so Portones, y'all, we're going down 298 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: a path. All of them had like the similar venues 299 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: and would go together. Yes, yes, I'll have to look. 300 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: I've actually really enjoyed. Yeah, I remember Jars with Clay. Yeah, 301 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: I've enjoyed going back down this memory. And even though 302 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: we're talking about like non great stuff right right, we 303 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: wanted to go over some sample song lyrics and these 304 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: are limited. I had to put a time stamp on 305 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: how much time can I spend listening to old songs 306 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: and picking out lyrics that are sexist? But yeah, we 307 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: wanted to choose some to illustrate what we're talking about here. 308 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: This is one of the miss understood songs as well 309 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: like miss spoken songs as in get the lyrics completely wrong, 310 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: and I'm one of those people. So it's the fallout 311 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: a song which goes, I'm just a notch in a 312 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: bed post, but we're just a line in a song, 313 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: which of course is from the two thousand fives were 314 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: Sugar We're going down. Still probably could not sing that 315 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: all the way through, and it would make up my 316 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: own stuff, as most people did in that line. And 317 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: of course there's also I only want sympathy in the 318 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: form of you crawling into bed with me. Also two 319 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: thousand five Dance Dance their other hit, and I still 320 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: probably would not know that lyric either, but y' yeah, yeah, 321 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: And I mean it's it's funny slash sad when you're like, 322 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: not recently obviously, but when you're in the height of 323 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: karaoke and you're like, I know that boy or whatever 324 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: song it is, and you're singing it, and as you're 325 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: singing it, you're like, oh, I feel weird about this now, Okay. 326 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: It's kind of that same way with a semi charme 327 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: kind of life, and you don't know what you're singing 328 00:18:53,960 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: and then you start realizing, oh, oh they and it 329 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: sounds so beat, so beat, so sad. The lyrics are 330 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: not not a beat. Everyone, Oh, speaking of not a 331 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: beat lyrics. So here's a line for Brand News two 332 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: thousand three songs Me Versus May Donna versus Elvis. This 333 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: line is like infamous. I got desperate desires and unamiable plans. 334 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: My tunnel taste of gin and malicious intent bring you 335 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: back to the bar, get you out of the cold. 336 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: My sober straight face gets you out of your clothes. 337 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: I almost feel sorry for what I'm gonna do if 338 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: you let me, If you let me have my way, 339 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: I swear I'll tear you apart. And yes, that is 340 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: about date rate, just straight up us about dates. And 341 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: then the sentences fell two four LP says, so love 342 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: me gently with a chainsaw and take the glass against 343 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: your wrist. You're worth more dead, Okay, I feel loved, Yes, 344 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: so so much love from this emotional music Glass Jaws 345 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: two thousand Pretty Lush has this line, you can lead 346 00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: a horde of water and you can bet she'll drink 347 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: and follow orders. So the band tatars and the song 348 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: the last song I will ever write about women, But 349 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: that didn't happen, which is love is wrong and girls 350 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: are evil. I guess I'll never figure out what woman 351 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: kind is all about. Well mean, at least there, I mean, 352 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: good riddance, goodbye, and then from the US through. I 353 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: also saw in Concerto two is Buried Alive, my foot 354 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: on your neck and I finally have you right where 355 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: I want you. Yeah, and this one was a big 356 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: one and was still talked about today, and we're definitely 357 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: gonna talk about her own comments. They were one of 358 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: the few female led punk slash emo band as well 359 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: as she was a very big Christian girl. Oh yeah, 360 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: I didn't know, yeah, yeah, yeah, so she was. Originally 361 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: this was not I don't think this was a Christian band, 362 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: but she used to be like all about that Christian 363 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: life and then they got big. In two thousand eighteen, 364 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: Hayley Williams of Paramore announced they wouldn't be playing Misery Business, which, yeah, 365 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: I used to love this song and but this lyric 366 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: ruined everything, which features the line once the whore, you're 367 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: nothing more and it's pretty much a woman against woman 368 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: stealing men from each other, which again live for a 369 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,239 Speaker 1: long time, still exists and you still hear it in 370 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: many songs, including uh yeah, main girl types of movies, 371 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: I've seen it featured and they have yet to play 372 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: it again at a show since. And when they announced 373 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: this at a show, the audience shared and applauded. Of course, 374 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: they also got a lot of pushback, being like, you're 375 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: do being too politically correct. Calm down. But Williams has 376 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: been outspoken about the sexism in the email world in 377 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: several interviews. Here's a quote she says, when I've been 378 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: offered female opportunities, it feels like a backhanded compliment. But 379 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: people sometimes think that that's anti feminists that don't want 380 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: to be grouped in with the girls. As a sixteen 381 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 1: year old who had dreams of playing with the big boys, 382 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: it felt like we were being slighted. That summer we 383 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: went out and I'll never forget it. We played in 384 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: Florida and the stage was a truck that had flatbed 385 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: on it. It was so flimsy, it was shake and 386 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: fall apart. There might have been one other female in 387 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: a band on tour, and people were gawking. I don't 388 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: think in a pervy way. They were just confused, like 389 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: what's in this for me? What she's singing about a guy? 390 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: How do I relate? And she also shared the story 391 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: of getting condoms thrown at her while performing and being 392 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: asked about her pussy by a man from another band 393 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: at sixteen years old. And when you look at a 394 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: lot again, this kind of comes back into that same 395 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: conversation of like, yeah, this seems cool and all, but 396 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: a lot of these men were super gross and they 397 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: did go after young girls like Hayley Williams, and it 398 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: was really gross because the relationship of the relationship, like 399 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: how did that happen? Avril Levine was another example of like, 400 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: and I don't think she either one of them would 401 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: say they were victims necessarily and that they would probably 402 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: not look at their relationships. It's a bad thing. But 403 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: it was oftentimes with like way older men and you're 404 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: kind of like, this is uncomfortable, Like there's something off 405 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: about this, and I think we're talking to a lot 406 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: and yeah, again, a majority of the time the girls 407 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: were young in email bands while the mineral old and 408 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: you're like, yes, how did this come about? Yes, And 409 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: that is a power dynamic that has been abused a 410 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: lot because this community wasn't is rife with abuse of women, 411 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: and several articles have written about how the lyrics and 412 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: a lot of these EMAI songs were essentially grooming young women. 413 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: For instance, Jesse Lacey of the band Brand New, which 414 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: we just saying, I didn't sing, I quoted the song 415 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: about date rape UM. Also, they had one of my 416 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: very favorite songs and I was telling at I'm like, 417 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: I guess that's over for me. And this band is 418 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: often credited with kicking off third wave email. They wrote 419 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: another song about how Lacy wished his girlfriend would die 420 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: after she decided to spend a semester abroad. And at 421 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: the same time he's writing and performing these songs, he 422 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: was pressuring underage girls to send him nudes while he 423 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: was masturbating on camera in front of frightened teenage girls, 424 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: and it took ten years before they felt safe enough 425 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: to come out and talk about it. Here's another example. 426 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: Mid two thousand's Australian emo band The Gateway Plans tour 427 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: manager John Zimmerman groomed and raped over fifty five young girls, 428 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: and most of them were fans of the band, and 429 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: he gave a lot of false promises of introducing them 430 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,959 Speaker 1: to band members UM and he was eventually found guilty 431 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: of ninety two charges ranging from rape, possession of child 432 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: porn and sexual penetration of a child under the age 433 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: of sixteen, among other things. He got sixteen years in prison. 434 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: Another Australian pop punk group called With Confidence had to 435 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: withdraw from all touring in twenty twenty after allegations at 436 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: the guitarist was sexting with a fan who was a minor, 437 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: which came about and they're like, okay, never mind, and 438 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: the band fired him and put out a statement supporting 439 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: the victim. However, less than a week later, another woman 440 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: released screenshots of explicit snapchat's message she would save from 441 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: the lead singer when she was underaged, and they released 442 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: another statement and yeah, they stopped touring. Yeah. In late 443 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: a member of Front Porch Step faced multiple sexual harassment 444 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: accusations from underage girls, including sex and solicitations for pornographic photos. 445 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: Several of these girls put together a petition asking the 446 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: founder of Vans Warp Tour to protect young female fans 447 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: by removing Front Porch Steps from their lineup. After looking 448 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: into the allegations, the founder agreed. However, a couple of 449 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: months later they were scheduled on the Warp Tour lineup 450 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: in Nashville, and people were rightfully furious Hayley Williams of 451 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: Paramore treated, I still believe in you've seen demand better, 452 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: because you deserve better. No more excuses for boys just 453 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: being boys. He did end up performing with some girls 454 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: in the front row crying so hard he had to 455 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: stop and address it in mid song. He and the founder, 456 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: when interviewed about this, aimed he was playing as a 457 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:06,479 Speaker 1: quote rehabilitation process um. He had six security guards protecting him. 458 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: Of course the girls had no protection, no security guards 459 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: protecting them, and there really a story after story. It's 460 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking, often with the male artists getting off relatively 461 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: scott free or even suing the accuser for defamation and 462 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: allowed to continue to perform. And these are only cases 463 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: that have been officially reported. Message boards are rife with 464 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: stories of people in these bands or in their orbit 465 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: praying on young girls, many of them fans, a lot 466 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: of them under age, blackmailing them and making them feel ashamed, 467 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: to silence them, so maybe getting photos and then telling 468 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: them like I'll tell your parents what you did, or 469 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: I'll show these photos unless you be quiet and are 470 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: continue this sexual relationship. And it's not only girls and 471 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,239 Speaker 1: women absorbing these messages, but boys and men too. If 472 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: they're observing this success and how girls and women seem 473 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: to enjoy the music and their lyrics the fangirl over 474 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: the band members, then it makes sense that they might 475 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: believe that these lyrics are romantic, that the behavior described 476 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: in the songs will get them the girl. It might 477 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 1: reinforce their feelings of being victimized by women who rejected them, 478 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: justified in their sense of anger, their intense anger, and 479 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: it kind of reminds me, honestly a lot of what 480 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: we talked about in our mass shootings episode. Because these 481 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: songs are full of self pity and the bands are 482 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: loved for it. The source of pain is usually a woman, 483 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: and women at large are the source of contempt, superficial 484 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: and unintelligent. Often not only that being a band member 485 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: makes that even more okay, because these songs teach that 486 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: putting women through pain for art is entirely acceptable, which 487 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 1: again we talked about in Jennifer's Body that if you're 488 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: a nice guy, the whole trope of the nice guy 489 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: and women just don't understand you, and that they owe 490 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: you because you are a nice guy. Articles have pointed 491 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: out what these men seem to want is in fact 492 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: girls and not women. Girls who will agree with them 493 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: on everything, who will do what they want, who will 494 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: idolize them like they think they should be idolized because 495 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: you know their gods apparently, and that this is a 496 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: world created by men to seduce and impress girls while 497 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: also deriding them. It's a dangerous power dynamic. Yeah, And 498 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: like I kind of talked about at the top, it's 499 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: it's been for a lot of women and girls who 500 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: were and our fans of this type of music. It 501 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: has been a real sense of community oftentimes for them, 502 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: and to have that weaponized has been really painful. And 503 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: I've read a lot of articles with where it was 504 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: friendships formed between girls and women because they did make 505 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: up a lot of these audiences and then having this 506 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: kind of realization, oh not great, a lot of misogyny 507 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: and a lot of praying on young girls in this world, right, 508 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: And again, as you were talking about, there's been a 509 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: several instances where women come together and realize we've all 510 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: been victims, okay, And which has been the huge mistake 511 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: of a lot of stars in general, not realizing, hey, 512 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: if you groom several people eventually, if one tells a story. 513 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: They're going to see a pattern, so which has been 514 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: an interesting community in itself, said that it has to happen, 515 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: but encouraging that they are talking, and from Jessica Harper's 516 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: two thousand three essay on the rise of commercial Emo, 517 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: she writes, my deepest concerns about the lingering effects of 518 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: EMO is not so much for myself or for my friends. 519 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: We had refuge in our personal political platforms and did 520 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: created record collections, but rather for the teenage girls I 521 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: see crowding front and center at EMO shows, the ones 522 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: for whom this is their inaugural introduction to the underground, 523 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: the ones who are seeking music out, who are wanting 524 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: to say some claim to punk rock or underground avenue 525 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: for a way out, a way under, to say, the 526 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: seemingly unquenchable nameless need the same need I came to 527 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: punk rock with. So I watched these girl is that 528 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: EMO shows more than I ever do the band. I 529 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: watched them sing along, see what parts they freak out over. 530 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: I wonder if they're being thwarted by the fact that 531 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: there's no presentation of girls as participants, but rather only 532 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,959 Speaker 1: as consumers, or if we reference the songs directly the consumed. 533 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: I wondered if this is where music will begin and 534 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,479 Speaker 1: end for them, if they can be radicalized in spite 535 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: of this, if being denied keys to the clubhouse is 536 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: enough to spur them into action. Yes, and people have 537 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: said that that it seems to be the case because 538 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: things are changing. But basically what Hopper was talking about 539 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: here is young women forming ideas on who makes music 540 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: and what it says about women and internalizing that at 541 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: a young age. Many women, both in bands at the 542 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: time and fans spoke of condescension and entitlement oozing from 543 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: these bands, similar to the fate geek girl thing that 544 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: you know, being told like they don't understand real music, 545 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: that they were only there for sex, um that they 546 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: supported these bands and showed up for these bands, but 547 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: the bands did not want or support them, or just 548 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: for just yeah, condescending of them. And I mean, there's 549 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: a whole conversation we could have to about when we 550 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: sort of talked about this in Fan Girls, where this 551 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: is a time where girls are experiencing they're kind of 552 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: going through these feelings around sexuality for the first time, 553 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: and you're experimenting and that's part of the reason why 554 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: things like fan girls exist. It's because it feels like 555 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: it's a safer way to experience your sexuality or kind 556 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: of get a feel for what you're attracted to or 557 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: all the stuff. And it should be it should be 558 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: a safe space. But this is just showing a lot 559 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: of times it's not. It's which is really unfortunate. Yeah, 560 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: and this is a slap in the face. Again, we 561 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: talked about this in the Fangirls episode. How is a 562 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: slab in the face when a product you're sending out 563 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: so the music is getting the love that you hoped 564 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: it would, but then you're finding that annoying as well 565 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: as not taking it seriously, What a slap in the 566 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: face for those who have bought into what you are selling. 567 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: And you should be proud and you should be thankful. 568 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: You don't have to owe them anything necessarily, but to 569 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: ridicule them and or use them is such a disgrace 570 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: in general. And we've talked about this again with like 571 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: the bigger boy bands when they come out they're like, oh, 572 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: that was me being young and naive and stupid, and 573 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: I hate it. How dare you? Like? These fans are 574 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: the ones who made you and put you in where 575 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: you are and to dismiss Sure, you can do things 576 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: like you know, that was when I was younger. Sure, okay, 577 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: you grow everybody, everything's fine, but that doesn't mean you 578 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: have to ridicule what is that that brought you into 579 00:32:48,000 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: this place? Absolutely? Yes. Another thing that people have written 580 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: about and when they're kind of digging into this whole situation, 581 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: is that why why women, you know and me included, 582 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: Why did we Why were we okay or even like 583 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: these lyrics? Why did they resonate with us when they 584 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: were often so outright hateful towards women. And some people 585 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: think it has to do with internalized misogyny and the 586 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: whole idea of you know, like I'm not like those 587 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: other girls. I'm not like this girl that broke your 588 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: heart in this song. I would never do that to you. 589 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: I can save you, I can fix you, I can 590 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: make you feel better. Whatever you need me to be, 591 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: I can be that for you. Others think that because 592 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: this all coincided with the growth, really rapid growth of 593 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: internet culture and things like blogs and file sharing, that 594 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: that allowed for this culture to spread and solidified very quickly. 595 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: So it was just one of those things where suddenly 596 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 1: it was everywhere and we just all kind of bought 597 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: into it. Yeah, And I guess it was, you know, exciting, 598 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: and I'm trying to think of my own experience because 599 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: I had to. My parents would let me go to 600 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: hot topic, but they were very nervous about concerts. Once 601 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: I started going, I was like, all and I think 602 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: it was almost just like I'm out in the world 603 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: and I'm doing this adult thing and being at a concert, 604 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: and it just felt really new and exciting for me. 605 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: And there was like because I've I've said my very 606 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: embarrassing truth. I wrote a fan fiction, which was a 607 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: very sue fan fiction where I saved the lead singer 608 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,800 Speaker 1: of Green Day's Life, Billy Joe Armstrong, by taking a 609 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: bullet for him. And I I think that's just, you know, 610 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: that's that stage where you are feeling like one of 611 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: these feelings, maybe I am the person, I could be 612 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: that special person that will be what they need. And 613 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,359 Speaker 1: it's not healthy, but I think it's normal. And there's 614 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: a fantasy, whether it's trying to again discover your sexuality, 615 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: understand your own sexuality, understand romance. There's a whole level 616 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: of absolute understanding and this is normal. This is you 617 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: trying to have a fantasy life. Of course, there is 618 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: the unhealthy version when that obsession has becomes something that 619 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: stops you from living your everyday life. But fantasy life 620 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: is not a bad thing. And that's kind of the 621 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: point of having the celebrity crush, the all of those 622 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: things that is a little untouchable in that level, because 623 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: most oftentimes that's better than reality, and that's what you 624 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: want for me. What's so funny in my fantasies, it 625 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: always ended up with heartbreak, like I never like either 626 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: in their death or my death or some horrible breakup, 627 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: cheating like it always in it that way. Mine was 628 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,479 Speaker 1: not necessarily like yeah, he saved the day. So it's 629 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: never that I was envisioned the like worst case scenario 630 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: and read with that. So there's that. But again I 631 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: digress to this is part of the imagination. This is 632 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: part of the process of working some things out that 633 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: you can't do it uh in reality in real life, 634 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: so might as well. And I don't think that's unhealthy 635 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: at all. We all go through that. My sister and 636 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: I still debate about who's better in Sync or Backstreet Boys. 637 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: I go for in Sync, any you're you're weirdly out 638 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,800 Speaker 1: in the of your generation and go for Backstreet Boys. 639 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: But you know, okay, this will be this will be 640 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 1: what finally tears as a part one day in sync 641 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: Backstreet Boys. Right, Yeah, no, I agree, And I think 642 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: it just breaks my heart that this normal process is 643 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: being preyed on might reser men because you do you know, 644 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: you are caught up in idolizing this person, but you 645 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: don't really understand that, you know, they are a person, 646 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: and maybe you don't really understand what relationships look like yet, 647 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: and you just are so excited because it makes you 648 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: feel like you're the special one. If they pay you 649 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: this attention and then it's abusive and you don't know 650 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: what to do about it. It just makes me angry, 651 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: breaks my heart. Other women have wrote about how these 652 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:28,720 Speaker 1: lyrics normalized behavior from boyfriends, maybe even glorifying, glorifying behavior 653 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,720 Speaker 1: like oh my boyfriend is so artistic or emotional thoughts 654 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: like that, And we talked about the romanticizing of emotional 655 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: men that happens a lot. It's kind of like a 656 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: running joke about the difference between men's pornography and women's pornography, 657 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: and that doesn't have to be bad at all, but 658 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 1: if this emotion is harmful, one sided, and toxic, then yes, 659 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: that is bad. It is bad, especially when we think 660 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: about young girls absorbing these messages and internalizing them, believing 661 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: that's what relationships look like. Are even yeah, young boys too, 662 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: um that that's what romance looks like and that's their 663 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: role to play in it. There's also a lot of 664 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: romantization of trashy campaign I find that's common in a 665 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: lot of our media, actually, that we really romanticize this 666 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: idea of like the tragic loner hero often or anti hero, 667 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. So that can be problematic 668 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 1: for people to absorb as this is what romance looks like. Right. Yes, Oh, 669 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 1: and this is a fact I found interesting. Other music 670 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: experts have written that in many cases lead male singers 671 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: have this like nasally quality and these songs that are 672 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: even not so great singing skills that would have been 673 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: critiqued the hell out of anyone that wasn't sis male 674 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: and we're straight that they are benefiting from a privilege 675 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: of being whiny and emotional when women are punished for 676 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: being trill and hysterical. In fact, women who have made 677 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: it in the emo pop punk scene have had to 678 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: be exceptional when it comes to skill of all, and 679 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: one of the articles specifically gave examples of Haley Williams 680 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,760 Speaker 1: and April Lavine was like, they have four range octave, 681 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 1: Like they can do all of this amazing stuff. Meanwhile, 682 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: a lot of email dudes are singing like one octave, 683 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,919 Speaker 1: kind of just like mumble talking into the micro. Mumble core, 684 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: y'all mumblecore that exists. Uh No, it's absolutely true, because 685 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: when you start looking at the newer wave, I guess 686 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: because Panic at the Disco came a little later. He 687 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: actually has a vocal range and it can actually sing 688 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: and hit different rages. But then you hit like Deathcat 689 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 1: for Cutie. He has a kind of operatic falsetto sound, 690 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: doesn't hit many of the cores, and he's very distinctive. 691 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: But if you heard him seeing regularly, it wouldn't be impressive. 692 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: You just kind of stared and be like all right 693 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: and move on. If you hear individual other stuff like that. 694 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: Dash Works Confessional. I can't quite remember. I don't think 695 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,799 Speaker 1: it was all off Coolhan Luke. I don't know if 696 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: you remember who they were. He was Indie and he 697 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: was a little more on the Christian scene. He was 698 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:01,319 Speaker 1: that level too, can s. But he seems so cool 699 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: and his lyrics seems so cool. So the title his 700 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 1: name was good cool and you would appreciate that, but 701 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: it actually comes from the movie. I'm sorry, but all 702 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: of those things are very different in sound, and you're like, 703 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: like that, this doesn't make sense. Not everybody. They just 704 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,399 Speaker 1: have a band and they have some vocals in the background. Great, 705 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: but that's about the end of it. Yeah, I mean, 706 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: what do you think about it? And I don't want 707 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: to if you're listening to that. I loved a lot 708 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: of this music, and I still listen to a lot 709 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: of this music and enjoy it. But if you think 710 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: about it, like a lot of it is pretty you know, 711 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: one kind of range and similar in topic was it? 712 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:42,719 Speaker 1: And they would say that for a lot of pop 713 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 1: to they talked about They make fun of that all 714 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: the time, and typically they make fun of girls pop 715 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,439 Speaker 1: singers who were like they can only sing four notes. 716 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 1: But then if you take them out like Miley Sorus 717 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: is a great example. If you think she's just a 718 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: pop singer and then you hear her sing outside of 719 00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: and she can hold those ranges, and she can hold 720 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: those notes, and she and hit every note without phasing it, 721 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: and you're like, hey, she's a singer, she gets it. 722 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: I can't hit those actors. Stop trying, Samantha, stop trying. 723 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: But there are things like that that you see people 724 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 1: dismiss easily because they seem like a joke, but in 725 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: actuality they have a talent beyond right. And people have 726 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: called down Taylor supposed to say, yeah, I'm a big, 727 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: big believer in you know, pop music has been really 728 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: looked down on, especially because I think the fans are 729 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 1: a lot of women and girls, and the singers often 730 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: are to you and actually quite talented, and we always 731 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: have to ask, like if the song is resonating, then 732 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: we have to ask why something's working right. So, yes, 733 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: admittedly exaggerating our heightening of emotions, it's not unique to 734 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: emo music at all. As the name might suggest. They 735 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: might have gone, you know, above the average, but it 736 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: is it's normal. Some of the bands have addressed their 737 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: past misogynistic lyrics and made changes. I mean, even before 738 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 1: this we were talking about past poetry. A lot of 739 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 1: my past poetry was really emo and like violent and 740 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 1: stuff that was unnecessary, but I was going I was 741 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,360 Speaker 1: working through stuff. My mom found mine and asked me 742 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: if I was okay as a teenager. So yeah, So 743 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it is more emotional and off, 744 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,800 Speaker 1: I'm more violent. But music at large does that a 745 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: lot um and a large swath of music has a 746 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,399 Speaker 1: history of being misogynistic, including rock and pop that Emo 747 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: grew out of. Others have correctly pointed out too that 748 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 1: while hip hop has been called out and sometimes dismissed 749 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: for misogyny for years, Emo and it's softer toxic masculinity, 750 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: as it's called How the Long Escaped It. Yeah, but 751 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about Emo today, so that's the that was 752 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: the target, I mean, And to be fair, one of 753 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: the songs that called out the most was PanAm Moore song, 754 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: which is interesting in itself. Yes, I found that to 755 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: be true as well. But there is hope the Emo 756 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: Revival has a more female artist than ever that's going 757 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: on right now. Um though, yes, we still have a 758 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 1: long long way to go from the band. She heard 759 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: her song killing the Boy Band. Here's some lyrics. So 760 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,480 Speaker 1: you started a band, We'll let me guess who's in it? 761 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: All straight, all white, able bodied systsmen say, you don't 762 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,800 Speaker 1: know many female musicians, why the they want to be 763 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:34,600 Speaker 1: part of a scene with people like you in it? 764 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 1: So yes, yes, and oh my goodness, listeners, if you 765 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 1: have any emo bands or pop punk bands with women 766 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 1: in them that we should be listening to, we want 767 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: those suggestions. I am ready. Christine has got tons of 768 00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: these suggestions, producer, send them our way. You can email us, 769 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: Christina are also just you know, talk to us whatever 770 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: way you're more comfortable with. But listeners of you would 771 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,239 Speaker 1: like to email us, you can or email Stuff Media 772 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: mom Stuff at I Hurt meia dot com. You can 773 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter, app, mom Stuff podcast or on 774 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,240 Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff. I never told you thinks there's always 775 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: to her super producer, Christina, I thought she's really emo. 776 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 1: She got it and thanks to you for this thing. 777 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 1: Stuff on ever told these prodection I Hi Radio for 778 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,399 Speaker 1: more podcast from my Heart Radio is her radio app 779 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows