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Speaker 1: Warning.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode contained spoilers for Captain America, Brave New World,

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Speaker 2: and the Wider mc U cannon in general, so be warned.

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Speaker 2: Hello and name, it's Jason gets UPSI owned Hi, I'm

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Speaker 2: rosday night, and welcome back to x ray Vision, the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Where we dive deep to your favorite shows.

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Speaker 2: Movies, comics and pop culture comedy from Myra podcast where we're.

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Speaker 1: Bringing three episodes a week.

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Speaker 2: Definitely Tuesday and Thursday, also Wednesday and kind of also

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Speaker 2: Saturday for sure Saturday now, so it's four.

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Speaker 3: Really, thanks for listening to the news. We're loving to

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Speaker 3: bring it to you. I'm glad you're enjoying it. In

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Speaker 3: today's episode, we are reacting to the long awaited new

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Speaker 3: Captain America film, which is our first MCU film of

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty five. We will be going over what it's about,

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Speaker 3: what works, what doesn't work, and we'll be tapping in

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Speaker 3: our super producers for a big panel discussion. And before

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Speaker 3: we jump into that very fun discussion, a reminder that

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Speaker 3: we are currently running a listener survey to gather your

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Speaker 3: feedback in ideas for the pod, and make sure that

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Speaker 3: you've read Dead Evil Borne again in time for our

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Speaker 3: upcoming book Club episode on February twenty fourth. Send us

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Speaker 3: questions to our email official XRV pod at gmail dot com,

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Speaker 3: or pop them in the Discord channel where we have

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Speaker 3: a book Club and Dead Evil Born Again channels for you.

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Speaker 2: Just set the stage for the discussion of this film.

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Speaker 2: Here is the timeline of production news as it happened

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Speaker 2: for the movie was announced in twenty twenty one. Captain

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Speaker 2: America four in the works with Falcon in the Winter

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Speaker 2: Soldier showrunner Malcolm Spellman. This is from The Hollywood Reporter

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. August twenty twe and Mackie signs onto

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Speaker 2: the film. July twenty twenty two is announced as Captain

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Speaker 2: America New World Order, with an original release date for

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Speaker 2: May third, twenty twenty four. September twenty twenty two, Marvel

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Speaker 2: announced that the d twenty three Expo that Shirajas is

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Speaker 2: joining the cast as Sabra March twenty twenty three. Production

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Speaker 2: begins at Trillis Studios in Fayetteville. June twenty twenty three

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Speaker 2: more principal photography. But the dual strikes in Hollywood happened.

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Speaker 2: The writer strike and the actors strike happened at once.

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Speaker 2: And so first the release date is pushed back to

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Speaker 2: July twenty six, twenty twenty four. December twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: Matt Worton, who previously worked on Moonnight on Disney Plus,

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Speaker 2: is added as a consulting producer to work on new pages.

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Speaker 2: This is the first inkling that we're getting that they're

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Speaker 2: going to start reworking this film. May twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: g and Coler Esposito is now part of the cast,

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Speaker 2: and twenty two days of reshoots happen, in which his

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Speaker 2: character Sidewinder is basically added to the story as a

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Speaker 2: secondary villain. July twenty twenty four, Ruth formerly Sabra, is

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Speaker 2: included in the new trailer, and there's some news that

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Speaker 2: the character will not be called Sabra and his non

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Speaker 2: AMSAD agent like in the comic books, and is instead

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Speaker 2: a US government official. And then January twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: Anthony Mackie has to walk back the comments that preceded

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Speaker 2: the film, essentially saying I wasn't trying to dishonor the

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Speaker 2: tr troops. I am a proud American. So there's been

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Speaker 2: a lot leading up to this film, multiple delays, multiple reshoots, characters,

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Speaker 2: added character.

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Speaker 4: Changer name Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And that all brings us to February twenty twenty five

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Speaker 2: and the release of After the America Brave New World.

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Speaker 2: We have seen it, Rosie, you and I have seen it.

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Speaker 2: The Expectation crew has seen it, and what are your thoughts?

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Speaker 3: Okay, So to me, I was actually I went into

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Speaker 3: this with low expectations, which I think everybody knows.

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Speaker 4: We were not sure about where this was gonna go.

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Speaker 3: I was kind of surprised. I thought it was a

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Speaker 3: pret tight to our movie. I thought the action was good.

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Speaker 3: I thought that I gian Carlo Esposito as we mentioned

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Speaker 3: a late stage edition as sidewinder. I thought he was

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Speaker 3: a really interesting foil for Mackie. I'm interested to see

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Speaker 3: them do more with that. I thought that the connection

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Speaker 3: between Mackie and the kid who plays Joaquin Torres was

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Speaker 3: really really good. I really enjoyed their fun Danny Ramirez,

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Speaker 3: He's very He kind of has this young.

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Speaker 4: Energy that I think the MCU has been missing.

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Speaker 3: This kind of It's not Tom holl Shit's a little

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Speaker 3: bit more funnier, less quippy. I thought those two had

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Speaker 3: a good relationship. I thought that the character chemistry that

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Speaker 3: they did was actually really interesting.

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Speaker 4: And I also felt like for a movie that has had.

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Speaker 3: Such extensive reshoots, it didn't really feel that disjointed to me,

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Speaker 3: compared to say, are the MCU things that we have seen,

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Speaker 3: Madam Weber, Well, Madam, you know, it definitely is high

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Speaker 3: above the spermuk Sony universe.

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Speaker 4: Definitely.

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Speaker 3: And I'm interested because I did not expect to see

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Speaker 3: the kind of negativity that came out of.

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Speaker 4: The critics screenings.

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Speaker 3: Like there were people who liked it, but a lot

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Speaker 3: of the kind of first reactions have been that it

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Speaker 3: was bad or it was disjointed.

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Speaker 4: I didn't feel that way.

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Speaker 3: I also have a controversial take, which is like, I

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Speaker 3: don't think that this is that different to a lot

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Speaker 3: of MCU movies that people love. In my the military

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Speaker 3: aspects of it, the kind of huge conspiracy that happens

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Speaker 3: and sets people against each other. They echoed kind of

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Speaker 3: Bucky and Steve's relationship here with Anthony Mackie and Sam

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Speaker 3: as Sam Wilson and Carl Lumley as Isaiah Bradley. I

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Speaker 3: thought that Isaiah Bradley's stuff was very, very good. I

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Speaker 3: was a big fan of how they decided to go

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Speaker 3: about that. I liked how they showed his powers. I

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Speaker 3: thought the idea of Sam Wilson not having super serum

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Speaker 3: and that being a constant kind of conversation was interesting.

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Speaker 3: We will tap in super producer Joelle later to talk

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Speaker 3: about why that didn't work for her in the same way.

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Speaker 4: But generally, I think, because one.

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Speaker 3: I'm a comic booklover and I'm just interested to see

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Speaker 3: a Sam Wilson movie, I will be writing, You'll be

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Speaker 3: able to find multiple pieces by me about Sam Wilson.

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Speaker 4: He's a comic book character I have a lot of

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Speaker 4: love for.

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Speaker 3: To me, it kind of just felt like picking up

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Speaker 3: a trade paperback and reading a comic book kind of

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Speaker 3: about you know, Red.

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Speaker 4: Hulk versus Captain America.

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Speaker 3: Like that's what the vibe of it was for me,

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Speaker 3: And I thought for kind of a blockbuster, big movie,

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Speaker 3: and also for what people have been asking for from

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Speaker 3: the MCU, which is a move away from the hard

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Speaker 3: sci fi of Eternals or the you know, volume hued

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Speaker 3: mess of Quantumania. As fun as that may be, this

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Speaker 3: feels like a response to what the audience wants, which

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Speaker 3: is pared down kind of conspiracy thriller, crazy action, and

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Speaker 3: the action is very very well shot.

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Speaker 4: I thought that there was a lot.

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Speaker 3: Of fun use of sam shield here, which is a

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Speaker 3: big part of any Captain America movie, and we've never

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Speaker 3: gotten as much shield play as we do here.

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Speaker 4: I like that he had the kinetic vibranium wings.

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Speaker 3: I thought that led to a lot of fun action

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Speaker 3: in a way we haven't seen before with Captain America

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Speaker 3: or when he was Falcon and we get to see,

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Speaker 3: you know, the younger Falcon who kind of has his

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Speaker 3: own way of fighting.

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Speaker 4: And wants to learn. I just thought that it was

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Speaker 4: you know, it's not definitely not op that with the

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Speaker 4: best of the MCU, but in my opinion, definitely not

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Speaker 4: down there with the worst. How about you, Jason, I.

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Speaker 2: Was definitely because of the pre release buzz it talks

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Speaker 2: about reshoots, the controversy over the inclusion of Sabra, that

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Speaker 2: we were potentially on the road to a full like

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Speaker 2: Sony Verse level.

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Speaker 1: It's Morbon time.

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Speaker 4: I definitely thought, and.

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Speaker 2: While I do think that you could sense the choppiness

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Speaker 2: at times, it definitely was not bad. It's not a

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Speaker 2: bad film. It was described in our group chat as

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Speaker 2: aggressively mid I would agree with that. I think that

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Speaker 2: there are some things that legitimately work really well. Like

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Speaker 2: you mentioned, I think the Isaiah Bradley stuff in the

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Speaker 2: rapport that he has with Mackie, the rapport he has

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Speaker 2: with Sam and Joaquin is legitimately good. Like I love

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Speaker 2: their stuff.

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Speaker 3: I want to see more of them, Like that is

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Speaker 3: something I want to see more of.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I thought that Mackie has a kind of we

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Speaker 2: you know, we had been concerned that Maki doesn't have

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Speaker 2: the juice, and he does have a kind of juice.

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Speaker 1: That I think really works well in these kind of group.

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Speaker 2: Dialogue scenes where there's back and forth. These character moments

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Speaker 2: I think are really wonderful.

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Speaker 1: And on the reshoots, I have a.

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Speaker 2: Conspiracy theory that we've talked about, so like, you know,

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Speaker 2: here's my conspiracy theory with the you know, we talked

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Speaker 2: about how the movie scored really poorly with test audiences

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Speaker 2: and they had to do all these reshoots, including adding

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Speaker 2: side wonder Geane Carlo west Posito of the Serpent Society

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Speaker 2: very late in the game, you know, And here is my.

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Speaker 1: Here's my theory, Rosie.

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Speaker 2: I think the reason the movie scored so poorly isn't

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Speaker 2: because it was a Madam Web level disaster.

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Speaker 1: It was because black hero.

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Speaker 2: White villain, white villain is the president. M why are

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Speaker 2: you why is this black hero beating up the white guy?

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Speaker 2: And why is the white guy so bad and evil?

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Speaker 2: Shouldn't he be better? Can't we redeem him somehow?

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Speaker 1: Which the movie.

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Speaker 2: Does redeem, you know, Ross is essentially redeemed. And when

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Speaker 2: you add in the detail that part of what they

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Speaker 2: did was add gene Carlos Posito. Is this kind of

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Speaker 2: like secondary foil? I think part of the scoring. Again,

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Speaker 2: this is just my conspiracy theory. I'm just theorizing, was

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Speaker 2: like can't can't can't the black hero like have a

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Speaker 2: black or brown villain to beat up?

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Speaker 1: Like why is it always got to be beating?

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Speaker 3: Also, I think has I think you up bringing up something?

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Speaker 3: That one was immediately a talking point after the movie

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Speaker 3: in the cinema, in the screen where I saw it,

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Speaker 3: because everyone was like, wait a minute, why did this

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Speaker 3: score so badly?

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Speaker 4: Like it's not like the world, It's not even thought.

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Speaker 3: I I'm a thought of the dark world, uh kind

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Speaker 3: of truth that.

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of interesting stuff there, But I understand

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Speaker 3: why it did not hit the way that it was

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Speaker 3: supposed to. Which is a big part of also what

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Speaker 3: I think it's funny about the MCU as everyone thinks

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Speaker 3: that everything was like a huge hit, but this movie

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Speaker 3: is tight to our action movie, relatively smoothed over for

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Speaker 3: so many reshoots, Like I was surprised by how whole

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Speaker 3: it felt, but you can tell that by these they.

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Speaker 4: They have to read, they have to redeem.

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Speaker 2: Where you can really feel the reshoots are. The big

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Speaker 2: dialogue scene between Sam and Ross and the Raft was

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Speaker 2: clearly patched together and renowned several times. In fact, I'm

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Speaker 2: guessing to give it that more redemptive tone for Ross,

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Speaker 2: where maybe in a previous version Ross is just a

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Speaker 2: bad guy who takes the fall and then like see

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Speaker 2: you later lock him in the raft.

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Speaker 1: Now it's like he's got this whole.

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Speaker 2: Emotional arc where they bring Betty back, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of you understand that a lot of his emotional drive

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Speaker 2: is he's trying to win his daughter back. He's not

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Speaker 2: He's didn't just imprison Samuel Stearns and use his Gamma

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Speaker 2: powered brain to help him win the White House out

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Speaker 2: of sheer.

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Speaker 1: Lust for power. It's because he loves his daughter.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Okay, and they were torturing people in a black

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Speaker 3: site door, okay.

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Speaker 2: And there were other things, you know, like the other

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Speaker 2: disjointed things.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: Sam Stern shows up at some house like in rural

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Speaker 2: Virginia and kills everybody inside and watches the television and

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Speaker 2: makes a phone call. Am I supposed to know who

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Speaker 2: that person is? I feel like I'm in a previous

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Speaker 2: version of this movie. I probably would have known who

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Speaker 2: was in that house, but now I don't. So there's

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Speaker 2: things like that, Sabra, I feel like, is I feel

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Speaker 2: like they obviously they're trying to make a mini widow

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Speaker 2: here and kind of reassemble Captain America's cast of characters

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Speaker 2: around him with another with Joaquin as another Falcon and

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Speaker 2: with uh uh, Ruth is another because she's not actually

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Speaker 2: Ruth is another black widow. But and so that didn't

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Speaker 2: necessarily work for me.

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Speaker 1: But there are things.

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Speaker 2: But but I was expecting, like truly, like a toxic

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Speaker 2: waste dump, and this is not what that is. This

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Speaker 2: is I, you know, our super decer. Aaron is going

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Speaker 2: to mention not to step on his point that the

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Speaker 2: the the first third act big action scene in which

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Speaker 2: Sam and Joaquin save the world from World War three

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Speaker 2: Sparking between the US and Japan features some absolutely poppy

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Speaker 2: cocks scenes of like shield throwing physics where Sam is

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Speaker 2: throwing but that's what Captain America.

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Speaker 5: I agree, that is what Captain America is.

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Speaker 3: Always throwing his shield at something and stopping something unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: Suspension of disbelief is not not broken by that.

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Speaker 4: But I think that's also because I've been trained that.

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Speaker 2: I do think the Red Hulk, like the Red Hulk

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Speaker 2: fight worked for me as as not just like an

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Speaker 2: action scene, but also something that.

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Speaker 1: Carried some of the character.

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Speaker 2: Story and emotion arc of Sam, which is that like

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Speaker 2: he's genuinely struggling with his ability to live up to

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Speaker 2: people's expectations, to live up to Steve's standards. Steve beat off,

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Speaker 2: you know, like defended the Earth from two different alien

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Speaker 2: invasions and spearheaded the fight against Thanos, and like, what

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Speaker 2: has Sam done? And at the end of that fight,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm saying to myself, well, Sam beat a Hulk.

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Speaker 2: Sam took on a Hulk one v one and won,

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Speaker 2: So I thought that was cool. I think it's a

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Speaker 2: I do think it's a mid movie, but it's I

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Speaker 2: don't think it's bad by any means, Like this is

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Speaker 2: better than Quantumnia, This is a this is a pretty

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Speaker 2: good Marvel film with some very interesting things. And I

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Speaker 2: thought they we'll talk about the post credit scene, but

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Speaker 2: I did feel a little light and open ended, which

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Speaker 2: is probably what.

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Speaker 4: They're the point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And also I would say that I think everybody

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Speaker 3: who has lived through this now almost twenty years of

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Speaker 3: MCU kind of supremacy since the two thousand and eight

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Speaker 3: release of Iron Man, it is easy to only remember

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Speaker 3: the kind of lead up to Infinity War an endgame,

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Speaker 3: where these were the movies everyone had to see, where

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Speaker 3: everybody loved them, and every movie's making a billion dollars

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Speaker 3: and they are like the cinematic experience of you know,

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Speaker 3: a generation for a lot of people.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 4: There were a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of movies that came out in those first three phases,

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Speaker 3: iron Man two, even Captain America, the first Avenger. It

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Speaker 3: was beloved by some but were seen as kind of

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Speaker 3: like a weird diversion as a period piece for others

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Speaker 3: who liked kind of the newer.

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Speaker 4: More grounded stuff.

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Speaker 3: The MCU has never had a consistency of pure quality.

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Speaker 3: It has always dipped and ebbed, and there has always

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Speaker 3: been movies that some people like and some people don't like,

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Speaker 3: as well as the kind of celebrated movies. And I

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Speaker 3: would just say I personally feel like this is going

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Speaker 3: to be one of those movies that maybe flies under

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Speaker 3: the radar critics don't like it. We also know people,

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Speaker 3: certain people in the critical class, they go into these

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Speaker 3: movies like looking to hate them. And I think that

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Speaker 3: in a few years there's gonna be some people who

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Speaker 3: are like, well, this is actually like a pretty sick,

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Speaker 3: straight up action movie, political conspiracy thriller for the MCU.

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Speaker 3: I think it's in hindsight is going to be viewed

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Speaker 3: than how it's being viewed now, which I think is

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Speaker 3: gonna be kind of like, well, it's.

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Speaker 4: Mid but it's not as bad as Quantumnia.

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Speaker 2: I will say that also, I think that there are

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Speaker 2: also structural things that will keep this is not a

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Speaker 2: This is not an easy jumping on point. I think

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Speaker 2: for for folks right who.

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Speaker 1: Have never watched a Marvel.

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Speaker 2: Movie or television program, if you're going to jump on here,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of things you're gonna miss, which like

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Speaker 2: some of the connective tissue from Captain America, which Soldiers.

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Speaker 5: It is essentially incredible Hoole Soldier, but.

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Speaker 4: It's also an incredible Hawk sequel, which I.

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Speaker 2: Think it's an incredible sequel from a movie from eighteen

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Speaker 2: years ago.

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Speaker 3: Like nobody really again for a long time even considered

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Speaker 3: part of the MCU. It was like a very controversial

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Speaker 3: thing because it came out at the same time, you know,

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Speaker 3: in the same year as I Am Man, but it

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Speaker 3: didn't have that same hit.

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Speaker 4: And then obviously we got the change. I was really hoping.

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Speaker 3: If there was one thing I think this movie was missing,

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Speaker 3: the way that they had Betty kind of beyond the

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Speaker 3: outskirts of this movie. I was hoping that the reason

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Speaker 3: that he hadn't seen her was because she was Red

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Speaker 3: Shee Hulk, because that is what happens in the comics,

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Speaker 3: is you kind of have the two characters going on

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Speaker 3: that journey together. I think that would have been really interesting.

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Speaker 3: I think also that I'll tell you what this movie

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Speaker 3: fails at, because Jason, this is me and you, the

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Speaker 3: two people who maybe more than anyone on earth, just

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Speaker 3: loved talking about the X Men, Okay, and we have

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Speaker 3: not even talked about the fact that this is the

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Speaker 3: movie that.

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Speaker 4: Introduces Adam maginam to the MCU.

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Speaker 3: I will say, in my opinion, that is a failing

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Speaker 3: of the movie because I do think to me, if

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Speaker 3: you're talking about reshoots or things that felt like they

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Speaker 3: probably changed during it, that to me did feel like, oh,

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Speaker 3: we need we maybe had something else that we were

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Speaker 3: searching for, We maybe had a different mcguffin, and now

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Speaker 3: we can just put the word adamantium like on this

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Speaker 3: kind of screen that is going to be in front

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Speaker 3: of President Ross before he gets attempted assassinated. So I

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Speaker 3: did think the adamantium thing was a little bit neither

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Speaker 3: here nor there, but it is a big deal. As

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Speaker 3: you will know, that is a huge element in the

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Speaker 3: Marvel comics.

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Speaker 4: It's what created Wolverine. I also am interested.

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Speaker 3: This is probably me reading too much into it, but

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Speaker 3: something else I thought was interesting. I thought it was

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Speaker 3: interesting to have Japan and America fighting over this adamantium

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Speaker 3: source when in the comics Wolverine has so many connections

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Speaker 3: to Japan.

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Speaker 1: I was just.

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Speaker 3: Interested to kind of see if they were going to

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Speaker 3: do something thoughtful.

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Speaker 4: I do with that side of.

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Speaker 2: That was like I thought the the casting of Takahiro

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Speaker 2: Hero as the Prime Minister was interesting to me, and

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Speaker 2: it made me wonder if he has a larger role

365
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Speaker 2: coming in the MCU, because that's a really juicy, great

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Speaker 2: ca and it just leaves you wondering if you're gonna

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Speaker 2: see more. We're gonna take a break and we'll be

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Speaker 2: right back after this. On the X Men front, so

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Speaker 2: we were talking about the post credit scene. The post

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Speaker 2: credit scene is very open ended, clearly strategically open ended,

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Speaker 2: so that it could mean anything, in which, you know,

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Speaker 2: Sam Suarton says, Oh, I've been looking at the probabilities

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Speaker 2: and they're coming. You know, do you think this is

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Speaker 2: the only world? Do you think that you're the only ones?

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Speaker 2: The others are coming. The others could be Fantastic four,

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Speaker 2: could be another version of the Avengers, It could be.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, tell us, so it could be immutant. But I

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Speaker 4: want to hate you.

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Speaker 3: I want to hate you aut theory because you pose

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Speaker 3: it this in the group chat and it's really good.

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Speaker 3: And then I'll come back with the vibe I got

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Speaker 3: from it, which was similar bit different.

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Speaker 2: So you know, we've been talking the whole time about like,

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Speaker 2: how do they introduce the X Men, How do they

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Speaker 2: introduce the X Men? One of the you know, important

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Speaker 2: things about Marvel comics is that the X Men exist

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Speaker 2: in a world in which people are.

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Speaker 1: Hate mutants.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of hatred of mutants and bias against

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Speaker 2: mutants for a variety of reasons, and that doesn't really

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Speaker 2: exist in the MCU, And so how would you create that.

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Speaker 2: So this is what I think that they're going to.

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Speaker 2: This is what a way I think they could go,

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Speaker 2: and I wonder if this post credit scene doesn't lead

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Speaker 2: into it. So I think that there are mutants now

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Speaker 2: as we've seen. We've already seen that there are various

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Speaker 2: mutants throughout the MCU, and they're now calling them that, right, mutations.

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Speaker 2: I think what's going to happen is the others, in part,

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Speaker 2: will be these mutants from the worlds in which, you know,

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Speaker 2: the days of future past worlds in which it's a dystopia,

401
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 2: mutants are agents slaved in the Asia, it's a full

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Speaker 2: like century, you know, sentinel powered genocide against these mutants.

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Speaker 2: I think that they are gonna some of these mutants

404
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 2: from other worlds are going to come to the MCU,

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Speaker 2: and they're going to say to the mutants that are

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Speaker 2: here now and are peaceful and are basically integrated in

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Speaker 2: the superhero mento human community.

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Speaker 3: They're going to.

409
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Speaker 2: Say, yeah, it's like that now, but here's how it's going.

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Speaker 2: Here's where it's going to go because we're from that world.

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Speaker 2: And you just watch watch what they do, watch their actions,

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Speaker 2: not their words, because they're going to start building these

413
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Speaker 2: sentinels and they're going to start hunting you. And it's

414
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 2: going to happen slowly at first, but you watch that's

415
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Speaker 2: where it's going. They're going to put you, they're going

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Speaker 2: to kill you.

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Speaker 1: And I think that the mutants.

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Speaker 2: That exist here, that are already here, are going to

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Speaker 2: slowly be They're going to become militant because of that message,

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Speaker 2: and they're going to see things in the world that

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Speaker 2: are truly leading them that way. And that's going to

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Speaker 2: be the setup for the X Men, and so you

423
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Speaker 2: can actually I think there'll be actually like an Assemble

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Speaker 2: the X Men type of situation.

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Speaker 3: I think I think that you're really onto something there

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Speaker 3: the vibe I got from it, and I do also

427
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Speaker 3: just want to say, I.

428
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Speaker 4: Really like this version of the Leader. I like the

429
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Speaker 4: horrible kind of horror movie.

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Speaker 6: You did like it.

431
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Speaker 3: I also I love how comic book they went with

432
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Speaker 3: him his obsession with probabilities and the ability to see.

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Speaker 4: What is coming next. I think that's very interesting.

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Speaker 3: My gut says, Originally this maybe said something different, like

435
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Speaker 3: it felt like he was kind of warning about Galactus

436
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 3: or the fantastic forecoming and what that would mean. My

437
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 3: gut was similar, though in the way of what the

438
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 3: others meant. It definitely felt to me like maybe some

439
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Speaker 3: kind of grizzled alternate universe heroes who at first you're

440
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Speaker 3: going to think are bad, but are actually good. I

441
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 3: also think one of the biggest interesting takeaways here story

442
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 3: wise is you have a sad I'm Wilson ends this

443
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: movie and he wants to restart the Avengers, which is

444
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 3: something he was inspired to do by Thunderbolt Ross. He

445
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 3: asked Joaquin Torres, so, I think we will have two

446
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 3: Avengers teams by the end of this year. We will

447
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 3: have Sam's Avengers and we'll have the Thunderbolts. So we're

448
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 3: essentially going to be the Dark Avengers. So I think

449
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 3: there's some really interesting stuff seeded here. But let's let's

450
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 3: tap in our Let's tap in our more critical super

451
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 3: producers who have some thoughts about what didn't work in

452
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: the movie.

453
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 4: Aaron and Joel, thank you for joining us.

454
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 7: Welcome to the haters corner. What's up, Aeron, I'm gonna

455
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 7: let you go first.

456
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, you guys.

457
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 6: Discussing the possibility for introducing the X Men just now

458
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 6: in that quick five minutes was more interesting than anything

459
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 6: that happened in this movie.

460
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 4: Kevin Figy, did you hear that? Hire me and Jason,

461
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 4: Hire me and Jason Baby?

462
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 7: I mean, yeah, I definitely do that. A You had

463
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 7: a lot of thoughts.

464
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 3: Aaron, what was your Yeah, well, tell us your you

465
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 3: you saw it first, so just like tell us that's

466
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 3: what your reactions were pre any of us seeing it,

467
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 3: because you got to see it like ten in the

468
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 3: morning in New York.

469
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,479
Speaker 6: As Jason mentioned, I thought Act one was very strong,

470
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 6: and I was excited as I was going through Act one.

471
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 6: You have that opening scene where he's trying to steal

472
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 6: the shipment and the dealer didn't make it, and Gen

473
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 6: carl Esposito is speaking in Spanish and he's very menacing.

474
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 8: It was great.

475
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 6: And then you have the fight where Sam is getting

476
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 6: beat up and he doesn't have the shield and the

477
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,719
Speaker 6: huge guy is fighting him and Sam's quipping back and

478
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 6: forth with him. Loved that, and then you get gen

479
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 6: Carlo Esposito, like attacking him in the car and you know,

480
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 6: shoots through the window, throws.

481
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: The grenade in.

482
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 6: I loved all of that, and then it just starts

483
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 6: to slow down. I felt like, I feel like a

484
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 6: lot of in some ways the movie wasn't sure what

485
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 6: to do action wise, Like we have this character who flies,

486
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 6: and we have Danny Ramirez, let's make top gun. But

487
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 6: also when we're making top Gun, he's got to use

488
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 6: punches and kicks and throw his shield in mid air

489
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 6: and then when they get back down, like the hand

490
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 6: to hand combat stuff. I actually thought they used the

491
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 6: wings pretty well and I really loved.

492
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: Red Hawk the Red Wing.

493
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 6: I love Red Wing. Loved the way that that was

494
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 6: used throughout, like whether it was in the Red Hulk

495
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 6: fight and like kind of doing you know, distraction fire

496
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 6: or whatever. So I thought that stuff was all really good.

497
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 6: But I do think it just it kind of petered

498
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 6: off into act two, and by Act three, I was like, God,

499
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 6: if we get another climactic scene where Sam talks them down,

500
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 6: and it's like another you have to do better, mister President.

501
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 6: I'm going to be disappointed, and of course that's how

502
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 6: it ends. And I was like, okay, wow, here we

503
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 6: are another Like, you know, I know the whole movie

504
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 6: is supposed to be about him coming to terms with

505
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 6: he's not Steve, but he also deserves to be a hero.

506
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 6: And it find message, and a good message. I don't

507
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 6: think they necessarily really delivered it well enough, but I

508
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 6: also didn't need I know why they tried to do that.

509
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 6: He is he's a he's a counselor and this is

510
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 6: this makes it sense for that to be his superpower

511
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 6: and how he kind of gets the job done in

512
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 6: the end. But it just felt so strange to be like,

513
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 6: here's Red Hulk, who's been catastrophically destroying everything, hasn't said anything,

514
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 6: has ripped your wing off, and then you just were like, hey, hey,

515
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 6: turns out Jepanese.

516
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 2: Did not seem like the most realistic part of the

517
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: entire movie was you have this extremely destructive, rage filled

518
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: president who destroyed the White House, has previously destroyed Harlem

519
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: and other fucking things. I'm gonna say and think, and

520
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 2: you gotta redeem this guy, right, He's not bad?

521
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 4: Just how crazy is that?

522
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 2: How crazy as a piece of content that lives in

523
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, in the world that we live in.

524
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 2: I don't like that story, but I also understand why

525
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 2: they did it, and because again back to my conspiracy theory,

526
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: I think people reacted to whatever the first cuts of

527
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: this movie were and were like white president to evil,

528
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 2: make him nicer.

529
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 6: But it's not a good story if you feel backed

530
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 6: into only one way of resolving something, and as the writer,

531
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 6: you have to do that.

532
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 3: I will also say that I just want to point

533
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 3: out here as well. I do think Aaron, you touch

534
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 3: on something that is one of my issues. I wrote

535
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 3: a piece about this for Polygon about this movie, about

536
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 3: this character. I think one of the biggest failings of

537
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 3: that whole like he's a counselor thing is that in

538
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 3: the comics he's actually a social worker and he's not

539
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 3: military and he cares about his community. It's so embedded

540
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 3: into who he is, and Sam is not military. That

541
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 3: is something they added later, and it was also something

542
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 3: that was really focused on in the movies here the

543
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 3: same way that they made it so Rody was a warhawk,

544
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 3: whereas in the makes he is a pacifist because he

545
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: was a veteran, and I do think that that angle

546
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 3: of Sam, they wanted to bring it in here more,

547
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 3: but I don't think they did the work in the

548
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: movies in general, in the mc with his characterization to

549
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 3: make that thing, Whereas I think what works here is

550
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 3: actually Sam's personality and his connection with other characters. Also, Jason,

551
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 3: you make a great point because I do believe that

552
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: you are right about the testing, especially because what has

553
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 3: the trend been for the past few MCU movies. Every

554
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 3: villain is black the Marvels, the villain is black. They

555
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 3: are always bringing in black villains. Obviously, Kill Manger, iconic

556
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 3: black villain like. They are Flag Smasher black villain like.

557
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 3: They have been making a lot of black villains in

558
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 3: these movies Kang obviously black villain like, and they have

559
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 3: been using the idea of like casting diversely to make

560
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,479
Speaker 3: a lot of really kind of big, bombastic black villains.

561
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 3: And I think this is probably the first movie that

562
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 3: tested for a while that had a white villain and

563
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 3: Thunderbolt Ross. I also think that it is kind of

564
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 3: funny to watch this movie in twenty twenty five because

565
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 3: I was thinking, like, oh, if Disney actually goes there

566
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 3: and makes Ross the bad guy.

567
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 4: This will seem like it's making a statement. I don't

568
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 4: think thisy I think that statement.

569
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: I think they were absolutely terrified of making a statement.

570
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 8: I think that's what was clear in this movie. That's veryeah,

571
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 8: can we yeah, Joel.

572
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm gonna zoom out.

573
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 8: A little bit and just try to.

574
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 7: Judge this movie based off itself. And I agree with

575
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 7: you guys that this movie is fine. I think I

576
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 7: wrote aggressively made in the chat.

577
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I.

578
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 4: Think that's a very fair abuse.

579
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 7: And I knew we were in huge trouble when my

580
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 7: audience the only time my audience got rowdy when Bucky

581
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 7: showed up. I said, this is not good. This is

582
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 7: not good because you have moved someone who's been in

583
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 7: a second tier buddy position up to your number one

584
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 7: on the call sheet.

585
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 8: You're your top lead guy.

586
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 7: And then very early or i'll say late in the

587
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 7: first act, you get a statement you need to be

588
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 7: remaking the Avengers.

589
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 8: We need them back.

590
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 7: If you have somebody who's also a second who hasn't

591
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 7: been bummed up to number one, the audience is twenty

592
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 7: times more excited to see that person. You don't have

593
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 7: a leader and you didn't make a story that evolved

594
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 7: him into a leader. And that's really a problem. That's

595
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 7: a huge problem because I don't think general audiences are

596
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 7: going to want to see this version of Sam as

597
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 7: the leader of the Avengers, not because we could throw

598
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 7: race and all this. Yes, throw obviously behaters, that's consistent,

599
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 7: but he doesn't have the gravitas or the Jews, or

600
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 7: really the appealing storyline of let's say, a black panther.

601
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 7: And for me, as a black Marvel fan, this is

602
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 7: a huge This is our first black American character leading

603
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 7: a story period.

604
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: So you don't think that in that You don't think

605
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: in the aftermath of this that guy beat a hulk. No,

606
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: isn't the resume builder for Sam. When they eventually do

607
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: put the.

608
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 7: Ams why you don't get the emotional beat of holy fuck,

609
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 7: how is he gonna do this? You don't get CAP's

610
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 7: arm is broken. They didn't have.

611
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 4: They didn't have the broken moth moment.

612
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 6: They did though he crushed his mask. They rip his

613
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 6: wing off.

614
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: But did it hit? Is what I'm saying. Like, when

615
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 4: you think about the moment of like I will.

616
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 7: Say in Civil War, is more impactful than CAP's wing

617
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 7: being I disagree.

618
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 4: I do want to say, Okay, Jason, well, I just.

619
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 5: Want I think that.

620
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: I think Matthew is good in this, and I think again,

621
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: this is a movie that plays to his strength, which

622
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: is a lot of these dialogue scenes, these two furs

623
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 2: or three four scenes where he is, you know, just

624
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: playing this wonderful banter in chemistry that he has with

625
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 2: the other actress. I don't know that he has the

626
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 2: ability to command the screen on his own, or the problem,

627
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: has the ability to go to the kind of like

628
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: emotional desperation that even that that Roady goes to in

629
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: various parts of the MCU, whether it's when he's injured

630
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: in the post injury or when it's post snap and

631
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: he's trying to organize this like search forthan also and

632
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: other things like he's he conveys this like oh shit,

633
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: like we're fuck. I don't, I don't know what I'm

634
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: this is really hard that I don't know that Mackie

635
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: ever had. I don't know that he has that gear,

636
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: is what I'll say about Mackie, who I again I

637
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: think is good in this, but I don't I think

638
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: you're right in this sense that like he's not his

639
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: juice is a different type of juice, and it's definitely

640
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: not Don't type of juice.

641
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 7: I just think the storyline isn't there for him to

642
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 7: be able to deliver that kind of like for example,

643
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 7: I did not know Sam was a social worker instantly.

644
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 4: That's true. I will never tell you that they don't

645
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 4: want to talk about that. It makes me very mad.

646
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 7: And I think too if you talk if you have

647
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 7: friends that are veterans or family members, a lot of

648
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 7: them have really strong opinions about the military, and we

649
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 7: never much on that. We are still exactly how cinema

650
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 7: and the military works in order to get your military, tanks,

651
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 7: military the script.

652
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 8: It's the whole thing for it.

653
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 4: Disney wants to no, no, no, But I agree with you, Joelle.

654
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 3: I do think it's I think it's one of the

655
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 3: weakest parts of the way that they've treated Falcon and

656
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 3: also Rody and also every black character that they militarize,

657
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 3: which they have done with.

658
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 4: Pretty much every black character.

659
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 3: Also, I would look this is again I think I'm

660
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 3: coming into this with because my expectations were so low.

661
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 3: I think I do have a more generous reading of

662
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 3: the movie. What I will say I don't think it's

663
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 3: intentional to make him feel like he's not going to

664
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 3: lead the Avengers.

665
00:34:58,600 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 4: And I do have to say I thought it.

666
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 3: It's pretty crazy to be in a screening when we

667
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 3: have been in these screenings for years where the moment

668
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 3: that like Victor.

669
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 4: Timily comes on, like someone's cheering.

670
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 3: Was it me yes, to be in a screen where

671
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 3: they say Adamantium and nobody cares. They say we need

672
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 3: a new Avengers team and nobody cares now, but.

673
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 4: That is a franchise problem.

674
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 3: I actually think that what is being set up here

675
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 3: or what could come next if maybe this is not

676
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 3: what they were thinking of. But we are gonna obviously

677
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 3: have two Avengers teams, and I think Bucky and the

678
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 3: Thunderbolts are gonna be the favored team and they are

679
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 3: going to be the actual heroic team. And I think

680
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 3: that Sam's underdog Avengers that.

681
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 4: Is going to be a few different people.

682
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 3: That's going to maybe be more of a kind of

683
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 3: like there was an Avengers team in the comics around

684
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 3: the time of Marvel Now where there was Sam Wilson

685
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 3: Captain America, there was Captain Marvel. There was a different

686
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 3: setup of characters. I think there's gonna be a set,

687
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 3: there's gonna be two teams, and I do think that

688
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 3: Sam's team is gonna end up being the underdog team

689
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 3: compared to the favored government, you know, villain team. So

690
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 3: I think that that is actually to think, oh, does

691
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 3: this man have the power to set up the Avengers.

692
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 3: I actually think is an interesting conflict to introduce, and

693
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 3: that Will could play into it. But I also understand

694
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 3: how I might be looking at it too generously. But

695
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 3: I personally was surprised. I felt like the movie came

696
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 3: together pretty well compared to other chopped up nightmare superhero movies.

697
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 4: You'll see it's n MCU. They haven't been doing great recently.

698
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, to me, the problem is two fronts, and it's

699
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 7: problems we already Disney had. And I think what was

700
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 7: more disappointing is like, it's great that it's not Quantumnia.

701
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 7: I don't know what happened with that film, but it

702
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 7: was god awful and it's literally unwanted.

703
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 8: I can't rewatch it.

704
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 3: But it's the rick and mortification combined with the volume.

705
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 3: It becomes like a very specific experience. This is nice

706
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,479
Speaker 3: to see real cinematography back again.

707
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 6: Wait, this had real so in photography there.

708
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 5: I thought this was shot.

709
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: I thought this was very.

710
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 2: Well Yeah, especially compared to even like Phase one through

711
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 2: three Marvel movies, which color palette I love, those movies

712
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: can be very very bland. This hands like an interesting

713
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 2: This looked like there was an interesting texture to the

714
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 2: shots in this.

715
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 4: Even like Ros, the.

716
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: Color has been nicely saturated at the Oval office was

717
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 3: like really blued.

718
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: Maybe the assassination scene of Ross, like doing this speech

719
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 2: in front of like the world leaders, I thought that

720
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: looked really good.

721
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 7: I thought, like, but this is I guess I'm.

722
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 6: Docking it too much for the very end in the

723
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 6: climactic scene when it looks like, yeah, it looks like

724
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 6: he's standing in front of a tarp.

725
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: In his jackyard.

726
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 6: So like that clearly kind of ruined the video.

727
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 2: But you clearly did that fifty times and over the

728
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 2: course of like three months leading up to the release

729
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: of this film, like can you come back and just

730
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 2: green screen this again again again again?

731
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 3: Like that was That was the one moment where everyone

732
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 3: in my row was like looking at each other like, God, wait,

733
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 3: but I think that finished.

734
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 7: I think the problem is like if you the two

735
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 7: problems isn't he had? Is like one we know their

736
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 7: TV shows weren't connecting with as wide of an audience,

737
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 7: and because they're interconnected, Bucky scene is literally just a

738
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 7: thus fastest recap you could possibly do a Falcon and

739
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:24,439
Speaker 7: Winter Soldier.

740
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 5: It really it was.

741
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 7: It was literally just him being like, if you didn't

742
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 7: se the TV show, don't wry we it's gonna catch

743
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 7: up real quick on what happened and go. And because

744
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 7: of that, I think, and because you don't integrate enough,

745
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 7: Like I would have loved to have seen Sam call

746
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 7: his sister.

747
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 8: I loved his sister in that show. She was like

748
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 8: one of my favorite parts.

749
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 4: But she was not in this movie, not.

750
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 8: Mentioned, not called when he's coming into stress.

751
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 7: These other characters that we have, like if I think

752
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 7: like black Panthers, to me, it's top, it's upper echelons.

753
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 8: It is one of the top MC of course.

754
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 7: And in that film, you have a set of characters

755
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 7: that are family and friends and love interest. You have

756
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 7: a king trying to step into this like new role.

757
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 7: He's coming off of uh A civil war. We has

758
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 7: this great arc of basically going from Brady injured prince

759
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 7: to confident leader.

760
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 8: What is Sam's arc here.

761
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 7: There's no change to this. He doesn't He's not different

762
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 7: from when he started. And the goal of this movie

763
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 7: is Sam understanding that he's different than Steve and being

764
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 7: okay with that was the goal of season one of

765
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 7: Captain America, Win your Soldier, And so if you follow both,

766
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 7: then you're like, what did I watch this movie for?

767
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 4: Okay?

768
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: Let Well one, I would definitely bra watch this movie

769
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 3: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

770
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 4: Are you going to rewatch this movie? Are you going

771
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 4: to rewatch this movie if somebody said.

772
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 2: To, because I'm a sicko and I do watch.

773
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 4: Me too, I rewatch. I'm a sick to I rewatch.

774
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 3: The reason I rewatched this movie is, look, Joel, you

775
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 3: are such a thoughtful cryptic when you come to this

776
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 3: idea of like the narrative of the fight scenes and

777
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 3: like where what does it tell us about the characters?

778
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 3: The truth is, sometimes I do love to think about

779
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 3: things like that, and sometimes I just love to see

780
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 3: somebody like do a sick head kick.

781
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 7: I want two, maybe three great stunts in this film. However,

782
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 7: Anthony Mackie, and again not to dump on Anthony Mackie,

783
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 7: I think you're a fine, actor sir doesn't have the listen.

784
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,479
Speaker 7: We know there's like three ways to film a punch

785
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 7: to make it look impactful. It was like, overall the

786
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,479
Speaker 7: fights weren't giving holy shit.

787
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 4: I don't know, Okay.

788
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 3: I find that very interesting because I personally thought that

789
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 3: the action was like a standout part of this and

790
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 3: something that I thought was really interesting that felt more

791
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 3: like akin to the TV shows and.

792
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 4: The dead evil of it all.

793
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 3: I felt like the action in this felt way more

794
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 3: violent and like I could feel the punches than your

795
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 3: usual MCU movie where I feel like everybody's superpowered, everybody

796
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 3: is like kicking each other and nothing really happens. I

797
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: felt like in this I could I could feel the fights,

798
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 3: I could feel the punches, I could feel the impact

799
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 3: in a way that I think fit into what they

800
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 3: were trying to do with this movie, which is take

801
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 3: it back to that grounded space.

802
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 4: Now, I'm going to ask you guys a question, because

803
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 4: I think this is something we.

804
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: I do agree with you.

805
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 2: I don't think that Mackie, I don't think that Sam

806
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: has I think the arc clearly was intended to be

807
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: Guy doesn't feel like he can lead the Avengers. Guy

808
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 2: now feels like he can lead the Avengers, right, that

809
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: was supposed to be the arc.

810
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: I think.

811
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 2: Again, to take this movie as it is, Sadly, I

812
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 2: do think that it is a sad reflection on our

813
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: culture that they clearly retooled this movie to give.

814
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: Thunderbolt Ross the arc.

815
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 2: Like the arc is Thunderbolt Ross. The arc is a

816
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 2: redemption arc of thunderbul Ross, who's a good man and

817
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 2: you got to find the good in him.

818
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 5: Sadly, Yeah, and sadly.

819
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 2: I think that this movie was clearly significantly retooled so

820
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 2: that Sam would be the vehicle of Ross's redemption rather

821
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 2: than the agent of whatever his transformation he was gonna

822
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 2: go under. And I think that fucking sucks. And I

823
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: think that that significantly, in my eyes, weakens the movie

824
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 2: and makes it like pretty jarring in that sense. But

825
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 2: I also think that it is a pretty accurate reflection

826
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 2: of you know, where we are so in his society

827
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 2: in the year twenty twenty five.

828
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree.

829
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after our.

830
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: Word from our sponsors.

831
00:42:54,040 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 9: Yeah, I want to ask you guys a question because

832
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 9: Sarah is something we haven't talked about here, which is

833
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 9: like the kang of it all, like, this movie is

834
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 9: coming out post what was essentially supposed to be the setup.

835
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 4: For in the wider MCU.

836
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 3: Of this new huge villain of Kang, the conqueror of

837
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 3: all the Kangs, the Council of Kangs. We know that's

838
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 3: not happening now. How much of that do you think

839
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 3: enough this movie or whatever the movie was meant to

840
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 3: be about, because I do think that was probably a

841
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 3: massive change for them, because this would have had to

842
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 3: deal with that post Quantumania.

843
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, and they're making this in the chaos of because

844
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 7: according to like Disney execs and if read the articles

845
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 7: and stuff, they were like shocked that people didn't like

846
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 7: what they thought they had a hit, and they did.

847
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 4: They thought they were doing exact Yeah.

848
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 7: So if you're making a film in the middle of

849
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 7: and and you're like we have a hit and everyone's

850
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 7: like no, we hate You're like shit, everything has to change,

851
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 7: and then you have a legal court case where this

852
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 7: main character, it probably did impact it, but I think

853
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 7: based off the way the MCU is set up.

854
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 8: It shouldn't have impacted it to such a degree.

855
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 7: If because Thunderbolt Ross was always supposed to be like

856
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 7: you're you're big, bad in this movie, right, I don't

857
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 7: think it was originally King, and so if that's the case,

858
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 7: then Kang is a side thing. Maybe there's like a

859
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 7: side element, but most of these movies should be able

860
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 7: to exist as standalone properties. And I think if like

861
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 7: it was, they put back in there exactly like if

862
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 7: Thanos comes in, he does damage when he's there, but

863
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 7: if he's not there, then he should be a secondary thought.

864
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 8: I hope that's not what affected it.

865
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 7: I don't see why it should have been such an

866
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 7: impactful thing.

867
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 3: I just think like they were trying to set up

868
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 3: a new Fanos esque villain. So I think, for example,

869
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 3: post credit scene, probably who the leader was have been

870
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 3: warning about. I think that the world's coming together to

871
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 3: have this kind of treaty may not have been about

872
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 3: Celestial Island if Kang was the threat that we thought

873
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 3: he was going to be, I think that they were

874
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 3: in an unusual situation with this movie. And I will

875
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 3: say I also think that it was pretty clear that

876
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 3: at some point Marvel was not as committed to this

877
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 3: movie as Thunderbolts. There was no it was kind of

878
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 3: crazy that the super Bowl didn't have a spot for

879
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 3: this movie.

880
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 4: I was coming out, you know, a week after.

881
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 2: That.

882
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 3: But also I think what they're doing is I think

883
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 3: what they're doing is which they used to do with

884
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 3: them seeing movies too. I think that they're like, here's

885
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 3: a trailer. If you want to go see the movie,

886
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 3: go see it. Hopefully it will find its audience and

887
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 3: it will become like a bit of a you know,

888
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 3: a word of mouth success, or people will like it

889
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 3: or they won't like it. What I find interesting though,

890
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 3: is I was thinking about this on the way homes.

891
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 3: How much did this movie cost? Because what we've all

892
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 3: wanted is like a smaller, more pulled back MCU little

893
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 3: weird adventures as you do your huge, big movies. I

894
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 3: think this fits into that, though it is definitely more

895
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 3: of like a B grade movie than your best MCU movies.

896
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 3: But if this movie still costs like two hundred and

897
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 3: fifty million dollars, then what are you doing? That's what

898
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 3: I think the big problem is is like can the

899
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 3: MCU make smaller, more intimate.

900
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 4: More kind of whole movies.

901
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 3: And I will say I did think this felt like

902
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 3: a movie where everything was tied up, which becomes an

903
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 3: issue if people want those movies and we've had this

904
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 3: since I mean spider Man, the last spider Man movie,

905
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 3: the last toime olin spider Man movie, everything since then

906
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 3: has felt like it's meant to change the game.

907
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 4: And it all gets tied up within the movie.

908
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 3: And I will say this does that too in a

909
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 3: way that I felt like probably made this a better

910
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,280
Speaker 3: movie rather than trying to set up something much, much bigger.

911
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 3: Obviously Avengers is gonna happen, but I'm interested because it

912
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 3: also probably still costs three hundred million dollars.

913
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 4: So in that case, like.

914
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 3: What's the point of making a smaller movie if you're

915
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 3: still spending all this money on it, and then you're

916
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 3: gonna not do a real kind of massive push publicity wise.

917
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 3: You know, this has been quite a small publicity trail,

918
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 3: and I didn't even know that last night was the

919
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 3: world premiere. Usually those things are very violent. Yeah, last

920
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 3: night was the world premier, that exactly, and that that

921
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 3: is why that's why our screenings were last night, so

922
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 3: the social embargo could drop after the premiere.

923
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 4: And I think there's something I think one they.

924
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 3: Knew because of like as we talked about, like there

925
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 3: is a lot of controversies this movie is people are

926
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 3: calling the.

927
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 4: Boycott this movie.

928
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 3: Like there is a lot going on, So I think

929
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 3: that pushing forward for Thunderbolts, I understand it, But I

930
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 3: just think that there's a muckiness around this movie that

931
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 3: I don't I don't get what they were going for,

932
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 3: like commit either way.

933
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: I just think that they can't.

934
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 2: Like I think that they maybe, you know, the original

935
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 2: whatever previous cuts existed were probably like a little more

936
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 2: whatever progressive, hard hitting something had a more of a message.

937
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,479
Speaker 2: But I think we're just like in an environment now

938
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: where Disney is terrified they just put down a shareholder

939
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,919
Speaker 2: revolt by right will you know, right wing very hard

940
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 2: figures within within their investor base. We're under a administration

941
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 2: that is looking to like attack dog like anything that

942
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 2: they disagree with, and I think they're just trying to like,

943
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 2: let's just get this movie out there and like have

944
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 2: hopefully have no one notice it too much.

945
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 3: That is, I think I think that the feeling is

946
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 3: put this movie out and then maybe it will find

947
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 3: its audience after rule. But I think that the MCU

948
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 3: is in a place, and Disney is in a place,

949
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 3: and the world is in a place where we shouldn't

950
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 3: be doing that with movies. Make the best movie. And

951
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 3: I say that as somebody who did enjoy this movie.

952
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 3: Actually I thought it was I kind of had a

953
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:18,839
Speaker 3: good time watching this movie.

954
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:20,720
Speaker 1: We also live in a world in which, like a major,

955
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: a major.

956
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 2: World spanning tech company renamed the Gulf of Mexico the

957
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 2: Gulf of America because people because kiss the Ring like

958
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 2: this is this.

959
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 5: Is very unfortunately where we are.

960
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 2: I think where we are at, and I think that

961
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 2: this movie, in a lot of subtle ways, is a

962
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 2: reflection of that and maybe the best they could have

963
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 2: done under the circumstance.

964
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 6: Does Marvel wish this came out last year like originally intended?

965
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, absolutely they wish.

966
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 4: I think they wish it came out.

967
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 5: They wish it came out in twenty twenty.

968
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 3: I was gonna say they wish they wish this came Dude,

969
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 3: do you understand how long it took them to have,

970
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 3: Like it took so long for Black Panther to come out,

971
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 3: It took so long for Captain Marvel.

972
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 4: To come out, Like they are still playing catch.

973
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 3: Up on having movies that are not led by white

974
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 3: people and not led by white men, and are.

975
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 2: A waging internal fights with whether or not they should

976
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: do it, like you know again, like the part of

977
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: that investor rebellion was spearheaded by a guy who was like,

978
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 2: we shouldn't do Black Panther.

979
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, he didn't want Black Panther. He didn't want Captain Marvel.

980
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 3: And I think also something that's really funny in that state,

981
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 3: in that part of the conversation is like, even Sam

982
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 3: becoming Captain America in the comics took like fifty years,

983
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 3: even though every single comics person was like, oh, this

984
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 3: is Steve's best friend. Of course when Steve leaves in

985
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 3: the eighties, in the nineties, this is gonna be the

986
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 3: guy who becomes Captain America. People wrote letters about it.

987
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 3: Nick was a big proponent of it. There has always

988
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 3: been this fandom. So even in and that way, Sam

989
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 3: becoming Captain America not until like twenty fourteen in the

990
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 3: Rick Cremmendu Carls Pacheco stuff, which they get a really

991
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 3: interesting thanks actually at the end of the movie that

992
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 3: was a new kind of Marvel thanks about how the

993
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 3: important input that they kind of gave, which was more

994
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 3: about what they took from the comics, But like even

995
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 3: that was so late, and then the next Run of

996
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,800
Speaker 3: the Guy who took it over with Nick Spenser was

997
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 3: very controversial and not even particularly well done. So they're

998
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,439
Speaker 3: playing catch up in the comics and then the movies

999
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 3: are playing catch up, and Jason, I think you really

1000
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 3: summed it up. They wish they this came out in

1001
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen. This is like a Phase two. This is

1002
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 3: like a Phase two mid movie that could have been

1003
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 3: kind of radical if Sam was Captain America back then.

1004
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 3: You know, now we stand in this place where as

1005
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 3: Joelle and Aaron mentioned, like almost like what is the

1006
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,760
Speaker 3: point of a movie like this right now?

1007
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 4: Like is it a great movie? Does it make a statement?

1008
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 4: Is it either one? Like it is a do.

1009
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: Any of that? Trying not to make a statement and

1010
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: to do that just simple yeah.

1011
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. Joe'll go for it.

1012
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 7: I was the inn just fails to be entertaining because

1013
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 7: I agree with you, Rosie. If you're not going to

1014
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 7: go political, that's fine, I get it. I understand your business.

1015
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 7: You gotta keep pushing forward. But then this should be

1016
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 7: the most bombastic, intense fight scenes, like high drama, like

1017
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 7: give Sam a love interest, do wealthing that makes it

1018
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 7: like would have been.

1019
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 3: So please especially because I thought that the woman I

1020
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 3: thought the actress and the character of the presidential Aid Taylor,

1021
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 3: I thought she was so great and was.

1022
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 2: Fingers interactions script about there is a script where they

1023
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 2: do not just that probably tested like I.

1024
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 3: Felt like there was a script as well where she

1025
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 3: knew what Ross was doing or she had some insight

1026
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 3: into it that felt like there was a connection there

1027
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 3: that I would have loved to see explored. And I

1028
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 3: also think another interesting thing about this movie, and I

1029
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 3: think Jason, you really summed it up with What's going

1030
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 3: on in the world, is like what they've really done

1031
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 3: here is they've left the movie open for interpretation, because

1032
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 3: there's a version of this movie where you still have that,

1033
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 3: you know. They definitely felt like they were doing something

1034
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,319
Speaker 3: very radical. And they showed Sam on the other side

1035
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 3: of the bars in the raft, and they showed Thunderbolt

1036
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 3: in the prison like they wanted to say, look at

1037
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 3: how things have changed. Look at this man who was

1038
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 3: one time in here and now he is the one

1039
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 3: who's seeing it. They want you to be able to

1040
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 3: read it that way. They want to have you know,

1041
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 3: Sabra in there, but not ever name her Sabra and

1042
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 3: change her backstory. But there are still like so many

1043
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 3: people who will not watch this movie because of what

1044
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 3: that means. And I personally do not think that they

1045
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 3: needed to keep her in the movie. If you're gonna

1046
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 3: edit out, if you're not going to commit again to

1047
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 3: what that character means, which does have a very racist history,

1048
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 3: is like, then don't put her in the movie. But

1049
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 3: then they keep her in the movie and they kind

1050
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 3: of re interpret her and then also nerf the character,

1051
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 3: like there's no point in the character you can cut

1052
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 3: her out of pretty much.

1053
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 6: Again, only there was some government agent could be female

1054
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 6: that Falcon already had some backstory with. Uh yeah, geez,

1055
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 6: I wonder if there was someone they could have used there, huh.

1056
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 3: I mean, imagine how cool it would have been, like

1057
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 3: if we'd have had Maria, I mean, you know, Monica

1058
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 3: Rambow in this movie. Like, but again, I do think

1059
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 3: that there was a fear of turning this into a

1060
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 3: black movie for.

1061
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 7: Some reason, and I don't know why, and I think

1062
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 7: ironically insanity.

1063
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 3: Don't even get me started. They don't know what they're

1064
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 3: doing over there when.

1065
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 2: It was again in African country, you know what I mean, Like.

1066
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 10: They even mentioned they even say they say, Joel, they say,

1067
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 10: if we should own Adamantium because Wakanda is an isolationist

1068
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 10: like nation that will not you know, that will not

1069
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 10: share it.

1070
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 4: That's why they want to own Adamantium.

1071
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 3: You know.

1072
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 4: So I think that you guys, I love this podcast

1073
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 4: because you mean.

1074
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 3: It's mutually like I went to this movie and I thought,

1075
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 3: you know what, that's the action movie. Cool, it's an

1076
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 3: MCU movie. It's like the MCU. It's not the weird

1077
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 3: stuff that I love. But I but I actually think

1078
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,919
Speaker 3: that we've touched on something very interesting, which is kind

1079
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 3: of like the muddled messaging of this movie and how

1080
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 3: the journey that it's been on has left it without

1081
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 3: any sharp edges that could have potentially I mean, people

1082
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,399
Speaker 3: love Captain America in the Winter Soldia.

1083
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 4: But they love it it's political.

1084
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think the sharp edges are there, it's just

1085
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:43,280
Speaker 2: that you have to actually like look through the matrix

1086
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 2: to see them again. They talk pretty They talked pretty

1087
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 2: openly in this movie about how Thunderbolt Ross destroyed Harlem

1088
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 2: and is a fuck.

1089
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 1: Up and that is now president.

1090
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 6: You know.

1091
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 2: They they they lay into him very very openly, or

1092
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 2: like this guy fucked up a million ways to Sunday,

1093
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 2: destroyed an entire neighborhood in fucking New York, and now

1094
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 2: he's my boss because he's the like they and so

1095
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 2: that's there, Like he has a black ops prison where

1096
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 2: he keeps somebody who keeps he keeps his half and

1097
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 2: the guy who got him like elected president exactly.

1098
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 3: And also the uh the watch the Virginia based secret prison.

1099
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 4: Guess where it was actually Sam Pedro baby they found.

1100
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 4: I was. I saw it. I was like, that's my

1101
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 4: local park.

1102
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 5: I love this for me.

1103
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 3: But yeah, actually this conversation, guys, I'm gonna have to

1104
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 3: go see it again and kind of work out where

1105
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 3: I land on it, because I I do think, Joelle,

1106
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 3: let's go and watch it for the action and just

1107
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 3: go in with that, because I actually think it's I

1108
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 3: think the action is really good, and I think, aside

1109
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 3: from everything else, the chemistry between Joaquin and Sam is

1110
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 3: all so really good.

1111
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:02,280
Speaker 4: I want to see them together again.

1112
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 3: I love Isaiah, but I'm now very interested in.

1113
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 4: How the movie.

1114
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 3: Reflects twenty twenty five as like a piece of cinema

1115
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 3: where you have to where we're living in a world

1116
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 3: where one of the biggest tech companies changed the name

1117
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 3: of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America

1118
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 3: to like for no reason.

1119
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 4: They didn't have to do it, there was no law.

1120
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 3: I think this movie stands in a very interesting place, Jason,

1121
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 3: as you say, as a movie that kind of reflects

1122
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 3: where we're at, where you can make a statement, but

1123
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 3: then you kind of have to walk it back. And

1124
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 3: obviously we actually saw that as we talked about at

1125
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 3: the beginning. But like something I wrote about in my

1126
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 3: piece is like Anthony Mackie understands and understood that Captain

1127
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 3: America is not about representing America. It's about representing the

1128
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 3: best of the people, and it's not always about aligning

1129
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 3: with the government. And when he said that, something that

1130
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 3: is true to the comics and a major part of

1131
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 3: Captain America's history, he had to go on an apology

1132
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 3: tour saying that he loves America and that he was

1133
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 3: against the troops.

1134
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 4: So I think that like this is coming.

1135
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 3: Out just like a completely wild time and the movie

1136
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 3: is a.

1137
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 4: Reflection of that.

1138
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 2: Actually, Well, thank you Joel and Aaron for joining us.

1139
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 2: In the next few episodes of Extra Vision, we're diving

1140
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 2: into the finale of your friendly neighborhood spider Man and

1141
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 2: getting you prepped for Disney Plus's upcoming Garret obleboard hand.

1142
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: That's a for this episode. Thanks for listening.

1143
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 2: Bye x ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepcion and

1144
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 2: Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

1145
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.

1146
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abusafar.

1147
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay wag.

1148
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 2: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

1149
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

1150
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and

1151
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 3: Heidi Our discorded moderate though