1
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Andy and Samantha, and welcome to Stephane.

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:19,720
Speaker 1: Never told your protection of iHeart Radio. And today we

3
00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,639
Speaker 1: are continuing are just real slew of technology. So I

4
00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 1: guess we're having a technology mini series and I think

5
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,319
Speaker 1: that's what we just call it. We really are, and

6
00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,720
Speaker 1: we have a lot more planned um which I've had.

7
00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,519
Speaker 1: I've had a good time researching. I mean, there's a

8
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,159
Speaker 1: lot of not great things we're talking about, but I

9
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,080
Speaker 1: don't know. A lot of this is sort of new

10
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,159
Speaker 1: to me, and I'm fascinated with the technology behind it.

11
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,360
Speaker 1: And today we're talking about Twitch, which I have a

12
00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:53,159
Speaker 1: very little experience with. What about you, Samantha, I have

13
00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 1: zero I have zero zero zero, at least with the

14
00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,480
Speaker 1: Reddit episode, I knew I've read it and it's like

15
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 1: I've read post from it, so I can click things,

16
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,759
Speaker 1: people will show me things from it. Would I know

17
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 1: of Twitch? Can I give you my definite, my my

18
00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,000
Speaker 1: understanding of Twitch and then see how badly I mucked

19
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 1: this up. Essentially is a live streaming service for gamers

20
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,520
Speaker 1: who get to cut like have a community, and in

21
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,600
Speaker 1: that community can build a large following that can make

22
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,039
Speaker 1: money and if you're big enough you may be a

23
00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,959
Speaker 1: star and you have these things. Apparently they were I

24
00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,160
Speaker 1: think featured on the Ryan Reynolds movie Free City a

25
00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,520
Speaker 1: few of the larger streamers. Larger streamers, um if you

26
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,960
Speaker 1: look at some of the the cameo, so I'm assuming

27
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,320
Speaker 1: they're from twitch, I understand it's any game, but typically

28
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:55,680
Speaker 1: more from streaming like PCs. Yeah, well, I'll give you

29
00:01:55,720 --> 00:02:01,880
Speaker 1: a solid on that one, but I really passing. I

30
00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,440
Speaker 1: don't give you a C plus. How about okay, thank you,

31
00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,520
Speaker 1: and maybe it's higher. We'll see, but we'll go through

32
00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,080
Speaker 1: together and you can fight me at the end if

33
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 1: you want. I'm taking my sea and running. That's also

34
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,640
Speaker 1: a legitimate reaction. I think you've mostly got it though.

35
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 1: I think you've got the very basic understanding of what

36
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,720
Speaker 1: it is. And all, by the way, apparently my nephew

37
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:32,120
Speaker 1: is somewhat has a large large ish following, not huge,

38
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:33,600
Speaker 1: but hasn't been en to fall in that. I'm not

39
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,079
Speaker 1: really okay. I thought about doing it, and you've heard

40
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,080
Speaker 1: my my I keep wanting to say scheme. It's not

41
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,640
Speaker 1: a scheme, but I was gonna like play the last

42
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,440
Speaker 1: of Us and just do that. It maybe makes some

43
00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,600
Speaker 1: money off of it because I'm just so good at it. Now,

44
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,440
Speaker 1: that's the funny part. I think I've had like five

45
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,839
Speaker 1: for Quiz and I know that's like not a lot,

46
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,840
Speaker 1: but it is for on specific game that's like constantly

47
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:08,079
Speaker 1: less of what endeavor, if not more. And I but

48
00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:09,760
Speaker 1: that's the other thing is I can customize it. I

49
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,639
Speaker 1: always ask like do you want like just the storyline

50
00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,239
Speaker 1: or do you want me to take time and read

51
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 1: the notes? Like how much do you want? So I

52
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,440
Speaker 1: could really do it now, I could offer like a

53
00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:24,320
Speaker 1: lot of experiences. I don't know that that's exactly how

54
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 1: Twitch verks either, to be honest, but that what you

55
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,200
Speaker 1: said was my basic understanding of it as well. Hilariously enough,

56
00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,920
Speaker 1: I have another fan fiction connection with this one because,

57
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,400
Speaker 1: as I said in the Reddit one and it is

58
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,640
Speaker 1: a popular trope to feature technology from our modern day

59
00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 1: and these fan fictions. And there is one about Twitch

60
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,360
Speaker 1: that I very very much enjoy. It's super cute. Um,

61
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,760
Speaker 1: they're like too very popular Twitch streamers and then they

62
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,440
Speaker 1: fall in love. What Okay, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did

63
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,080
Speaker 1: want to put the date on this one just because

64
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,480
Speaker 1: we are talking about an ongoing story and I had

65
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:03,560
Speaker 1: to check the date um it is November three. Uh,

66
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 1: just because yeah, some of these things we're going to

67
00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 1: talk about might have changed by the time this comes out. Um.

68
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,840
Speaker 1: And also, uh, this has kind of become a two

69
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,800
Speaker 1: parter because as much as Samantha and I don't know

70
00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 1: about Twitch, we do have a listener in front of

71
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,760
Speaker 1: the show, Jamie Summers, who does know a lot about Twitch,

72
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,039
Speaker 1: and uh it is streaming a lot. And uh we

73
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,760
Speaker 1: we reached out to Jamie asked if she'd be willing

74
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,640
Speaker 1: to talk to us about it, and she was awesome.

75
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,880
Speaker 1: She she did and that became a much larger conversation.

76
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,800
Speaker 1: So it's going to be its own episode. Oh yeah,

77
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,680
Speaker 1: of course we had a great time. Um. But yeah,

78
00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,320
Speaker 1: look out for that look out. I'm always I'm always hesitant.

79
00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 1: Is it lookout or listen out? It's both. It's coming

80
00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,080
Speaker 1: Uh an interview with Jamie Summers about what it's like

81
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,480
Speaker 1: to be on Twitch that will be coming up next.

82
00:04:54,480 --> 00:05:00,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm excited. M hm sta. That's my contribution. Yes,

83
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,600
Speaker 1: and I hope Jamie, we don't want you down because

84
00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,719
Speaker 1: it's always interesting when you're talking about a topic where

85
00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,039
Speaker 1: mostly you're depending on the research that you find. Um.

86
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,719
Speaker 1: To talk about it. So hopefully we have done it well,

87
00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,520
Speaker 1: but you can let us know if we did it all. Right.

88
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,520
Speaker 1: So we're not going to get too in depth here

89
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 1: about the kind of history of twitch, but let's we're

90
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,160
Speaker 1: gonna start with some basics. So Twitches a live video

91
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,320
Speaker 1: streaming service based out of the US, created by Justin

92
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,560
Speaker 1: kahn Um. It was launched in June eleven, and that

93
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,560
Speaker 1: was not his first venture in the technology realm. He

94
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,800
Speaker 1: had previously founded accompany him and a few others that

95
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,599
Speaker 1: offered an online calendar similar to what Google Calendar is

96
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,479
Speaker 1: now um, but it wasn't profitable, so con and the

97
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,920
Speaker 1: other founders sold it on eBay for about two hundred

98
00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:57,400
Speaker 1: and sixty thousand dollars. Mmm uh. They used that money

99
00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,000
Speaker 1: to make Justin TV in two thousand five, with the

100
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,599
Speaker 1: goal of streaming whatever was going on in their lives

101
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,360
Speaker 1: like Big Brothers style, essentially just broadcasting your life. And

102
00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,120
Speaker 1: since this wasn't two thousand five, people were primed to

103
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,320
Speaker 1: eat it up because this is when webcams were becoming

104
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,560
Speaker 1: more affordable and they were all the rage, and the

105
00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,360
Speaker 1: cost of the Internet was coming down and it was

106
00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,040
Speaker 1: becoming more accessible in most places, not all the places,

107
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,719
Speaker 1: but most places beginning of many horror movies, Tony, but

108
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,520
Speaker 1: he didn't add that any So first the service guarded

109
00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,400
Speaker 1: a mixed response, which even just hearing it that way

110
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 1: basically huh, yeah, this is a good idea. Also naming

111
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,280
Speaker 1: it after yourself, that's interesting. A lot of people were

112
00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:48,560
Speaker 1: annoyed by the reality TV I expect of it to them,

113
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,880
Speaker 1: but they were curious if it could be used for

114
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,080
Speaker 1: different applications, and the platform wasn't without issues then either,

115
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,600
Speaker 1: and some users were the target of the precursors of swatting,

116
00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,760
Speaker 1: which I think we've talked about before, when the police

117
00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 1: raided apartments after pranks implied a shooting or stabbing had

118
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,559
Speaker 1: taken place. They are and eventually, yes, people got murdered.

119
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,080
Speaker 1: Khan himself was the victim of one in two thousand

120
00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,600
Speaker 1: seven and still goes on today. We're going to talk

121
00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 1: about that. Another issue. While things were easier than they

122
00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,880
Speaker 1: had been on the technology side, live streaming still required

123
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 1: a technical know how. Not everyone had in this like

124
00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,600
Speaker 1: early these earlier days, and equipment like microphones, webcams, and

125
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,760
Speaker 1: specific software like getting all those things to work. Because

126
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,880
Speaker 1: of this, one of the first people hired for Justin

127
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 1: TV was a specialist in video games streaming, and from

128
00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,720
Speaker 1: what I gathered, he kind of just helped people set

129
00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,320
Speaker 1: up their video game streams. Was this whole po he

130
00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 1: was part of the geek squad before the geek squatted.

131
00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,040
Speaker 1: Kind of sounds like okay, And that is what solidified

132
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,280
Speaker 1: twitches future as a video game streaming platform specifically, perhaps

133
00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,640
Speaker 1: because they have this person going around who is a

134
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,400
Speaker 1: video game streaming specialists helping people set up video game streams.

135
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,360
Speaker 1: But even though that is a lot of what it

136
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,880
Speaker 1: does and a lot of what people perceive it as,

137
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,880
Speaker 1: that is not the only thing that it does at all. Um.

138
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,080
Speaker 1: There have been streams of things like San Diego Comic Con,

139
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:21,640
Speaker 1: an event around Bob Ross. I saw that huge Yes, yes, um,

140
00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,040
Speaker 1: all kinds of things. On top of that, there are

141
00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,160
Speaker 1: video games and certain content that are banned from streaming,

142
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,960
Speaker 1: which is the source of a lot of arguing and contention.

143
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,040
Speaker 1: This is also why I get confused by these platforms,

144
00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 1: because't like, wait, this is one thing, but it's not

145
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,840
Speaker 1: this one thing. Well, that's a lot of the issue

146
00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,840
Speaker 1: that Twitch has had, and we're going to get into

147
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,760
Speaker 1: that specifically, But Yeah, the platform quickly rose in popularity

148
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,520
Speaker 1: in part because it was fairly easy to use UH

149
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,480
Speaker 1: and it had a lot of tools that were available

150
00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,360
Speaker 1: for free. People in general were becoming more comfortable around

151
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,559
Speaker 1: using the internet and technology. Twitch was acquired by Amazon

152
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:07,480
Speaker 1: or nine D seventy million dollars UH. These days, fifty

153
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,920
Speaker 1: five million or more tune in to watch video game

154
00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,079
Speaker 1: streams on Twitch, and it is up there with Netflix, Google,

155
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,920
Speaker 1: and Apple for Internet traffic. Again that numbers from Feen,

156
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,560
Speaker 1: although I would bet it's gone up during the pandemic.

157
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,560
Speaker 1: A Twitch was getting over one hundred million views per

158
00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 1: month UH and over a fifth of Twitch users spend

159
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 1: around twenty hours a week watching video content on Twitch.

160
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,240
Speaker 1: Newer numbers from indicate that the platform hosted three million

161
00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,960
Speaker 1: broadcasters and fifteen million daily users. So yeah, it did

162
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,040
Speaker 1: see a serge during the pandemic. For some creators, it's

163
00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,320
Speaker 1: a it's a money maker too, with some making upwards

164
00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,720
Speaker 1: of one hundred thousand dollars or more a year. I've

165
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,840
Speaker 1: seen it like way higher, right, And then they have

166
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,560
Speaker 1: these whole things where people can contribute, like they give

167
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,200
Speaker 1: options during the live streams to give money. That's a

168
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 1: interesting take. On it. Yes, so based on my fan fiction,

169
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 1: which I'm going to assume somewhat correct starting this way. Okay, Yes,

170
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,960
Speaker 1: that sometimes you can pay, like depending on how big

171
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,520
Speaker 1: the streamer is a certain amount of money and they'll

172
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,680
Speaker 1: read your comments there. Yes, yes, that's true. I have

173
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,360
Speaker 1: seen that, like if you do certain contributions, they'll do

174
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 1: certain things. Um. I know Jamie is going to talk

175
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,240
Speaker 1: about it up in our interview, but I know people

176
00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,880
Speaker 1: do like specific fundraisers where they'll do a character, they'll

177
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,720
Speaker 1: do a request that you want from This is perfect

178
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,840
Speaker 1: for your last of us. Oh my gosh, I could

179
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,680
Speaker 1: make it a fundraiser. Yeah, I'm just saying this is perfect.

180
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,640
Speaker 1: What are you raising funds for? I have to think

181
00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,880
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, okay, gosh, okay, okay, we're going to

182
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,360
Speaker 1: talk about that in just a second. Um. So this

183
00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,640
Speaker 1: is also around the time that justin TV was rebranded

184
00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,000
Speaker 1: as which Interactive. A crowdsource attempt to play Pokemon red

185
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 1: went viral on the platform, and it was hailed as

186
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,640
Speaker 1: an example of the transformative works of players around video

187
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,839
Speaker 1: games and how video games could be not only entertainment

188
00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,320
Speaker 1: but also possibly a sport but also possibly like when

189
00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,720
Speaker 1: I say entertainment. They are entertainment, but entertainment for people

190
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,280
Speaker 1: watching them and commenting on them and interacting around them,

191
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:27,320
Speaker 1: Like this whole community is getting entertainment around this playing

192
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,080
Speaker 1: of a game. Yeah, so force. Twitch has not been

193
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,600
Speaker 1: without its problems, especially around streamers from marginalized communities. I

194
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,720
Speaker 1: know we've spoken about this previously. As part of that,

195
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:43,000
Speaker 1: Twitch introduced the Safety Advisory Council in May of which

196
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,800
Speaker 1: is concerning that it took that long, but that's a

197
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,439
Speaker 1: whole different conversation. A group of streamers, researchers, and people

198
00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,000
Speaker 1: from think tanks with the goal of coming up with

199
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,079
Speaker 1: guidelines to protect marginalized folks from abuse on the platform.

200
00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 1: They announced three fifty new tags, many of them around

201
00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,520
Speaker 1: things like gender identity, sexual orientation, and disability. To create

202
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,880
Speaker 1: these tags, and they consulted with organizations and groups like

203
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,719
Speaker 1: Trevor Projects, glad Able Gamers, and Special Effect. Yes, and

204
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,200
Speaker 1: Jamie is going to talk about that in our interview.

205
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,440
Speaker 1: These tags. Yeah, um, so, yeah, let's talk about Twitch

206
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,600
Speaker 1: and women specifically, because Twitch is a space largely dominated

207
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,360
Speaker 1: by men no surprise, according to Kataku quote, but the

208
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,000
Speaker 1: highest ranking female streamers are far further down the list

209
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,760
Speaker 1: starting with a valerie streamer Pokemon at thirty ninth place,

210
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,200
Speaker 1: cosplayer amaranths at forty eight, and music streamer Santika at

211
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,600
Speaker 1: seventy feet. Excluding streams that are run by multiple people,

212
00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,800
Speaker 1: such as Critical Role, there are no women in the

213
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,200
Speaker 1: top third of top earning Twitch content creators. In spite

214
00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,800
Speaker 1: of the complaints about the quote hot toab meta titty streamers,

215
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,319
Speaker 1: um and how some male streamers perceive that female streamers

216
00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 1: are stealing views from men. Uh, the numbers shows that

217
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,320
Speaker 1: only a small percentage of women are among the ranks

218
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,480
Speaker 1: of the twitches highest earning content creators. Um. Yeah, I

219
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 1: know we're gonna talk a little bit about that. When

220
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,400
Speaker 1: it comes to users. The Tea stuff found in twenty

221
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,040
Speaker 1: that quote distribution of Twitch users in the United States

222
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 1: as a second quarter was sent male and twenty five

223
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,080
Speaker 1: percent female. Um. And here's another quote. According to the figures,

224
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,559
Speaker 1: twitches top earning streamers are overwhelmingly male. The top spot

225
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,040
Speaker 1: is occupied by Table Top Role Playing Collective with around

226
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,240
Speaker 1: nine point six million in income. I'm guessing that's the

227
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,600
Speaker 1: Critical Role probably, I would think so. I know it's popular.

228
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,920
Speaker 1: I've seen them. I've seen them that's huge, followed by

229
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 1: a male overwatch streamer at around eight point four million million. Y'all.

230
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,840
Speaker 1: These supposed figures do not account for sponsorships and other

231
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,720
Speaker 1: methods through which streamers typically earn revenue, and not on

232
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,960
Speaker 1: the flip side, they put it on other social media,

233
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,559
Speaker 1: like you're saying, because I know critical role as a

234
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,320
Speaker 1: D and D thing on TikTok and they have a

235
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,360
Speaker 1: lot of high views on that's what they're monetizing off

236
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,520
Speaker 1: of that as well. Yeah, yeah, so, I, like I said,

237
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,400
Speaker 1: when we read that other number that was still high

238
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,360
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand. Yeah, I mean when we're looking at this,

239
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:31,280
Speaker 1: that is a million, huge difference. Millions, y'all. Millions. And yeah,

240
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,440
Speaker 1: just before we getting this next section kind of similar

241
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,480
Speaker 1: to the Reddit thing. We're not going to talk to

242
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,360
Speaker 1: in depth about anything, but we are talking about some

243
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:43,280
Speaker 1: grossness on the internet, some harassment, some abuse, So just

244
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,320
Speaker 1: to put that out there because there is a lot

245
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,240
Speaker 1: of that going on um here. So I did want

246
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,080
Speaker 1: to go back to those terms hot tub meta and

247
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,640
Speaker 1: titty streamers because I didn't know what they meant, although

248
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,720
Speaker 1: I had a great for one of them. Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay,

249
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,000
Speaker 1: So the war of women's attire on Twitch has been

250
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,720
Speaker 1: around since the start. It's something that we see pretty

251
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,840
Speaker 1: much everywhere where there are women. UM. Many comments on

252
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 1: women's streams, especially from men, focus on looks and ability.

253
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,720
Speaker 1: The first Google result I got when I typed in

254
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,440
Speaker 1: women on Twitch was hot women on Twitch kind of

255
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:25,080
Speaker 1: corrected and I was like, wow, Okay. Women who emphasize

256
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,200
Speaker 1: their sexuality and body, and even those that don't are

257
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:33,280
Speaker 1: often labeled titty streamers are booby streamers. Um. And there's

258
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,240
Speaker 1: sort of this like almost conspiracy theory that they have

259
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 1: a so called business model of dressing up, wearing makeup

260
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,680
Speaker 1: and maybe I push up bra for people to compliment

261
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,200
Speaker 1: on our insult like that. There's that's their whole purpose.

262
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 1: The vibe is generally that they are asking for this

263
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,080
Speaker 1: type of harassment and if they don't like it, they

264
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 1: can leave. Here's an example tweet. If she doesn't like

265
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,680
Speaker 1: the fact that someone is talking about her, she can

266
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,680
Speaker 1: just quit. By the way, she deserves all of it.

267
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,840
Speaker 1: Here's another one. This girl really thinks people come in

268
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,880
Speaker 1: not to look at her looks. I mean, you're not

269
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,880
Speaker 1: useful for anything else. Um. A streamer once ranted about

270
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 1: quote sluts that are coming into our community, taking the money,

271
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,880
Speaker 1: taking the subs. Twitch suspended him um. The most devoted

272
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,560
Speaker 1: thread on the subreddit live stream fail is women walks

273
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,200
Speaker 1: around in costumes, sells her nudes on YouTube, and claims

274
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,440
Speaker 1: that she is an objectified female. Because of this kind

275
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 1: of attitude, many women have reported feeling pressured to dress

276
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 1: a certain way. Sexualized are completely desexualized, So either you

277
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,120
Speaker 1: have to They feel like they have to either play

278
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 1: it up or just where hoodies All the time. I've

279
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,080
Speaker 1: heard many women talking about the fact that just online

280
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,680
Speaker 1: gaming in itself, but also streaming that they will like

281
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 1: disguise their voice or won't talk and then dual revel.

282
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,520
Speaker 1: And when they revel happens, they immediately the first comment

283
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,720
Speaker 1: and Jamie says it later on, is go back to

284
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,640
Speaker 1: the kitchen and make me a sandwich. Is that? Is

285
00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,960
Speaker 1: that a online game immediate? Like in soul thing, it

286
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,159
Speaker 1: has to be that before you can do other creative insults.

287
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:05,440
Speaker 1: Not that you need to be creative, but you know

288
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:10,720
Speaker 1: what I mean, right right? Kid? Like that line seems

289
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 1: to follow all these immature gamers as the first thing

290
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,879
Speaker 1: that they say and then like talking about trying to

291
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 1: pull them out, and a lot of the times, the

292
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,560
Speaker 1: ones that I've seen, uh again, they come on TikTok, y'all,

293
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 1: I do not this is my my realm apparently is

294
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,359
Speaker 1: oftentimes like these ladies are better than them non bine afros,

295
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,159
Speaker 1: and then they get so mad and then they have

296
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,040
Speaker 1: to be like pushed away. I did see one that

297
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,359
Speaker 1: was super cute where the two discovered I think there

298
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 1: was like four of them. Two of the discovered they

299
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,199
Speaker 1: were both women and they're like and they were they

300
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:44,919
Speaker 1: were the best on the team, and the way they

301
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 1: were like loving each other. I did love that moment.

302
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,480
Speaker 1: There's kind of a famous instance of that. We talked

303
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,240
Speaker 1: about it in our Women in Internet Gaming episode where

304
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 1: it was eight women and yeah it's not World of

305
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,880
Speaker 1: four Craft, but it's a popular online game and they

306
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,719
Speaker 1: were all using gender neutral names and avatires and they

307
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,399
Speaker 1: all found out they were women at the and they

308
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:05,960
Speaker 1: were like the best of the best. I love it,

309
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:07,920
Speaker 1: but I mean I did see a recent thing about

310
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 1: that where the numbers is still I think it's like

311
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,240
Speaker 1: women still use a gender neutral name in avatar because

312
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 1: they don't feel safe and they've perceived so much harassment

313
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 1: and the harassment numbers are so high. But on the

314
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 1: flip side, there's also I read a lot of articles

315
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 1: about trans people and feeling like they can be there

316
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 1: theirselves in a way they don't feel like they can

317
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 1: offline using that. Yeah, so there's a lot to break

318
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 1: down there. But yeah, and a part of this whole

319
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 1: thing is that stereotype that we've talked about before that

320
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 1: women and these women in particular on Twitch aren't quote,

321
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,480
Speaker 1: real gamers. And this whole thing got worse when Twitch

322
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 1: added the I r L category and for non gaming activities,

323
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,680
Speaker 1: and a lot of these dudes saying these things thought, great,

324
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 1: you know, not all these fake gamer women can leave

325
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,400
Speaker 1: and get male attention elsewhere because that's all that they want.

326
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 1: But that is not really what happened, of course. And

327
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 1: on top of that, when women started making money in

328
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,640
Speaker 1: the I r L category, there was a sudden outcry

329
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:14,120
Speaker 1: about these terrible women making money off the kids, the kids.

330
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 1: To that end, in seventeen, Twitch sold some women streamers

331
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,160
Speaker 1: that they couldn't advertise their Patreon accounts on their channels.

332
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 1: It wasn't very transparent at all about why, Yeah, that

333
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,640
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to me, How do you not. Yeah, yeah,

334
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,399
Speaker 1: well allow, how do you gate keep that? I mean again,

335
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 1: I know, as we're talking about hot up women as

336
00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 1: they were titled. I was introduced to this during a

337
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,680
Speaker 1: couple of years ago because I was very confused about

338
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 1: what twitch was. I didn't know what this was until

339
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. I didn't know it existed.

340
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 1: I assumed it was something like Reddit. This is where

341
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 1: I am in life pageant understanding what it was, and

342
00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 1: I was very confused. I was like gaming, okay, okay,

343
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: and and having women who would sit in kiddie pools. Um,

344
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 1: this is what I saw while gaping, and I was like,

345
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 1: I don't I don't get what's happening, and essentially people commenting,

346
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 1: and she didn't seem to acknowledge. And I think it

347
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: was again Amaroth, who has been in the spotlight in

348
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks, uh with some with some controversy.

349
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 1: But I did not understand what was happening. But what

350
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:27,719
Speaker 1: I was told was that she was making a lot

351
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 1: of money. But still it doesn't sound like making it

352
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 1: too much money in comparison to again what she was

353
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,159
Speaker 1: in mid range in the in the statistics of who

354
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 1: was making the most money. Um. But still I was

355
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 1: very confused. I was like, but why, because I was

356
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 1: again I don't understand all of this. Like I will

357
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: watch you play games sometimes because I just want to

358
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 1: hang out with you. I'll watch my partner play games

359
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: sometimes because I just want to hang out with them,

360
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 1: But I don't necessarily want to do that as an

361
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 1: entertainment off my screen. I guess, as I say, this

362
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: is not play phone games. Um. But yeah, there was

363
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 1: a lot of like controversy conversations like continue to be

364
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: mad and though I don't get it, I don't understand it.

365
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: I'm also confused as to why people are mad instead

366
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 1: of just going to a different channel. Oh yeah, well

367
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 1: more on that in a second. But like as I

368
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 1: said in the Reddit episode, a lot of this is

369
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 1: kind of we're jumping around a bit. But Amaranth was

370
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 1: one of the ones who um was penalized by She's

371
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: been penalized by twitish several times without like clearer reason,

372
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,879
Speaker 1: and that's happened to a lot of women. Um okay,

373
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 1: but yeah, since you brought it up and I didn't

374
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: know what it was, talk about hot tub meta Um okay,

375
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,360
Speaker 1: So women streaming and bikinis or bathing suits. It wasn't

376
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 1: necessarily new, but it really blew up in which is

377
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: kind of an accidental pun or when people started buying

378
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 1: easier and more accessible blow up hot tubs. And you

379
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 1: can actually find a lot of breakdown in the history

380
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 1: of this if you would like to learn more. In

381
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 1: several streamers on Twitch started broadcasting in their bathing suits

382
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 1: from hot tubs, and these streams drew so much ire

383
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: claims that they were using on loophole and twitches policies

384
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: and again oh children. In response, Twitter band are demonetized

385
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: some of the channels doing this, claiming that they were

386
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,959
Speaker 1: not advertiser friendly. Um. And this wasn't the most popular

387
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: move so Twitch released a whole article about it to

388
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: clarify that they weren't discriminating against women, but they were

389
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: cracking down on quote, sexually suggestive content. But it also

390
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: came up this line being found to be sexy by

391
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 1: others is not against our rules, and Twitch will not

392
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: take enforcement action against women or anyone on our service

393
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 1: for their perceived attractiveness. So like not, it's not fitting together.

394
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: What they're saying is not mashing um And somebody made

395
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 1: the great point of like you can be sexy but

396
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 1: not sexual, like there's a there's a break down anyway.

397
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: They later penalized yoga videos Twitch did under the same umbrella,

398
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 1: and a lot argue that they, as I said, are

399
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: not transparent or consistent with enforcement of their guidelines, and

400
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 1: eventually Twitch went on to add a category for hot

401
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: tub streams so advertisers could opt out of that if

402
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: they wanted. This same year, after raids against streamers of

403
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: color and queer streamers started happening, a lot of the

404
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 1: hashtag twitched you better started trending. Others have expressed annoyance

405
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: at the idea that women quote have it easy on

406
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: Twitch because of sex appeal and or this sort of

407
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 1: Madonna horde dichotomy that women would either get lewd comments

408
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 1: or backhanded compliments about, Oh, you're a lady, but I

409
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 1: actually like your work outside of your appearance. It's not

410
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: just your looks. I'm here for Many articles I found

411
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: written by women in the space have spoken about how

412
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: they feel they're pitted against other women streamers and how

413
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: they often face questions about their gaming credentials. There's also

414
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: a lot of complicated feelings women have expressed about how

415
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: hot tub meta has essentially exacerbated sexualization for other women

416
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: streamers and altered expectations. Others point out the fact that

417
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: all of these cries about the children and advertisers unwilling

418
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: to advertise hot tub meta, which is often just people

419
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: talking in hot tubs like with friends, maybe shows just

420
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: how much we sexualize women's bodies. That that's immediately like,

421
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: oh god, it's pornography, which is how they're essentially treating it,

422
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: and which is funny because the amount of violence and

423
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: these video games that I've seen, I'm like, but we're

424
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: not talking about that for children, children, Like yeah, what, Yeah,

425
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: they had no problem until women started making money in

426
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: these spaces, and they're like right, and again, still not

427
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: the top tier. Definitely didn't even crack the top twenty.

428
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: What uh what a interesting difference a lot of people

429
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: pointed out is that women creators often have on more

430
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: personal connection with their fans are the people watching, and

431
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: that sometimes those fans, who sometimes are largely women, get

432
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: so discouraged by the toxic comments that they see of

433
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: this person that they like that they leave the platform altogether. Yeah. Yeah,

434
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: so many women and marginalized creators are quote chosen and

435
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: we're putting that in close by in cell groups to

436
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: harass on Twitch and we know how that can go.

437
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: Reddit groups, mostly composed of men, claim to have naked

438
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: photos of women streamers and will slow down clips and

439
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: brag about how often UH they masturbate to them while

440
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 1: often discussing in disturbing detail what they do to the

441
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: women in question their body and digitally inserting them into

442
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: porn um. Many women streamers and know what it is

443
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: to have obsessive male viewers who will do these kinds

444
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: of things. And this is after many women have put

445
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: so much work and just trying to make money UH

446
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: doing what they like streaming games just like anybody else.

447
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: And people, mostly women, have reported vile harassment and even

448
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: physical threats, and have sounded the alarm around the fact

449
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: that Twitch hasn't really faced the me too movement like

450
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: other industries have. Many have reported toxic situations only to

451
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: have their concerns ignored, which has been a big conversation

452
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: for a minute. In twenty twenty, The New York Times

453
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: cited a spreadsheet with over two hundred names called UH

454
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: Survivor Stories of harassment, abuse, assault within the gaming live

455
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: streaming industry. Yeah, and the threats are truly horrific, like

456
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: things like, um, I have your dad tied up and

457
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: I'll slit his throat if you don't show your boobs.

458
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: One woman streamer found a whole network of men sexualizing

459
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: her and shared her feelings of being sexualized against her will,

460
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 1: where her male counterparts wouldn't be based on the content

461
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: that they were producing, like producing pretty much the same

462
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 1: thing writing this type of continent. You're getting missed your

463
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: comment right, um and in A man out of San

464
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: Francisco filed a twenty five million dollar lawsuit against Twitch

465
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: because hot female gamers on Twitch led him to so

466
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: much masturbation he hurt his penis. Has there ever been

467
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: a suit against porn industry for that, because that's ridiculous.

468
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: The pictures featured in the suit, which were dismissed by

469
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: the way, were actually innocuous, like being in a wedding

470
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: gown or a bathing suit or bending over um. The

471
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: laws of further claimed women coulde are only streaming with

472
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: the sole purpose of taking advantage of sexually addicted viewers

473
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: who are enticed to spend money on these women for

474
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: attention and sexual innu window I love how this is

475
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: all blamed on that and not the actual adults, like

476
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: who should be held responsible for themselves. But hey, that's

477
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: too much to ask for, I know. And by the way,

478
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: that that hot female gamers, that's an actual quote. That's

479
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: that's not using that's no no, oh my gosh, oh

480
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: my gosh. So yes, Now we need to touch on

481
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: the recent and ongoing allegations from streamer Caitlin m Ranth

482
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: Sia Goosa, one of the most popular and controversial streamers,

483
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: and someone often bemoaned as the exemplification of all of

484
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: these things wrong with Twitch according to these mostly men,

485
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: but not all, not all men, because some women very

486
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: frustrated with her too. Um. Amaranth is a twitch I

487
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: r L streamer who did streams where she did squats,

488
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: she dressed up in cosplay, some of it was revealing

489
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: she would dance things like that. Um, she did get

490
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: into hot tub meta. There was and is a lot

491
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: of conversation about her content, some in good faith and

492
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: some and not good pay at all, about the problematic

493
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: aspects of her and she's certainly done some things that

494
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: are not a good look. Um. And we can't break

495
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: all of that down today. But briefly, there are a

496
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: lot of quotes from her that read very differently now

497
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: about how she knew she was going to be sexualized,

498
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: so she leaned into it. She was once banned for

499
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: allegedly touching her breast on screen, and that was not

500
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: the only time she was banned at all, and reportedly

501
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: was so often swatted she was on the first name

502
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: basis with local police. The reason I said that these

503
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: things read differently now is that in a recent stream,

504
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: she alleged that her husband was abusing her, threatening to

505
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: kill her dogs. Um, that he controlled her finances and

506
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: was forcing her to continue streaming. She also said he

507
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: coerced her uh not to tell people she was married

508
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: in order to make more money when streaming in the

509
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: hot sub category. UM, so men would think like, oh,

510
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: I have a chance to be with her. Essentially due

511
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: to that, she has also faced her fair share of

512
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: online harassment, including when YouTubers like Beautie Pie called her

513
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: twitch thoughts, which is an insult used against both twitch

514
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: users and sex worshers. Um and yeah, this whole thing

515
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: is ongoing. Yeah, there's the whole thing. Because people men

516
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: came out angry when she revealed that she was being abused,

517
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: and like from what we gather, from what I've gathered,

518
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: being alleging that her husband was forcing her to do

519
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: the streams just for the money. Um, partially like at

520
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: the beginning maybe with her consent, and then towards the

521
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: end maybe not so much, leaking audio clips from conversations

522
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: and such. And then men, instead of being like we're

523
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: so sorry or not even talking, are now mad at

524
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: her and harassing her for lying to them about being

525
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: made And I'm like, I didn't think that was any

526
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: of your business to begin with, Like why does that

527
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: matter in general? But they feel genuinely wronged and have

528
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: been coming after her. That's what I've seen as late. Um.

529
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: Of course, there's all these concerns and people are coming

530
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: to our defense because domestic violence is a huge conversation

531
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: that needs to be had in general. But then that

532
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: that's that's the reaction. Yeah, at the forefront is shocking.

533
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: It was shocking for me, um, as well as the

534
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: fact that I know the name Beauty Pie and I

535
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: know that he's problematic times thirty from what I understand. Yeah, yeah, well,

536
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: and I read a lot of articles for this and

537
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: it was pretty painful. And strange to read the stuff

538
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: written about her before this came out. But even before that,

539
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: people were so suspicious that she had a husband. They

540
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: were all like, oh, I think she's lying about that.

541
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the things that people

542
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: hated about her when she came out was like, yeah,

543
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: I haven't wanted to do some of this stuff and

544
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: I do have a husband. And then they were instead

545
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: of being like, oh, yeah, that's so sorry, they're like,

546
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, you lied about these fronts that they

547
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: already didn't like. Yeah. Yeah. Because of all of these

548
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: things we've been talking about, Twitch has updated their guidelines

549
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: a few times, and some of them we've already talked about,

550
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: like in declared that any content deemed us eateful would

551
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: be suspended from their platform. Um, if you'll notice, as

552
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: we do a bunch of these technology episodes, a lot

553
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: of them happened the same year, and they're usually after

554
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: like this was based on Donald Trump, uh stuff with Trump,

555
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: which I find interesting, But these the same guidelines that

556
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: they introduced these that year also muddied the water around

557
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: sexual content that could be removed because again a lot

558
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: of things they put out aren't very clear, not very

559
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: transparent UM, several women who were streamers spoke out about

560
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: harassment and abuse they'd experienced on the platform. Notably, thanks

561
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: in part to the pandemic Yearship more than doubled that year.

562
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: Twitch assured that they'd cooperate with the law, but many

563
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: felt like they weren't doing enough, and June many users

564
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: and streamers participated in a Twitch blackout day. Later that day,

565
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: at Twitch put several bands in place of those that

566
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: have been accused and promised to send details to law enforcement.

567
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: A few days later, they put a temporary suspension on

568
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: a Donald Trump campaign account, citing a violation of their

569
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: rules around hateful content. A new policy around such content

570
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: went into effect, specifically aiming to protect marginalized users that year.

571
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: UM It also included things like a sliding scale of punishment,

572
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: so a full out band was only one of the

573
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: tools near arsenal. It included a ban on racist emotes

574
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: that weren't specified at the time, and the Confederate flag.

575
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: Words like in cell and virgin were labeled as harassment

576
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: under the right conditions UM. Some words like simple cause, debate,

577
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: and things like blind play through were later removed due

578
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: to ablest connotations, so However, study found that Twitch was

579
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: enabling far right extremists both financially and in terms of

580
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: spreading their hateful rhetoric. Many have also raised concerns about

581
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: double standards when it comes to gender, and here's a

582
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: quote from game rant uh users. She had a Haiku,

583
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: popular Twitch streamer with over twenty thousand followers, tweeted out

584
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: the ability to title a stream I hate men, while

585
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: the alternative I Hate women was struck down by Twitter's

586
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: modern policy. In her latest dream, she highlighted that her

587
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,959
Speaker 1: intention with the tweet was to point out the humor

588
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: behind the double standard. While Twitch streamers have been struck

589
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: down for their sexist rants, she had wu was only

590
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: taking a moment to laugh about the idea that streamers

591
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: could voice their hatred towards one gender but not the other.

592
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: That caused a lot of conversation, especially about miss conversations

593
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: we could have have been having, and it led to

594
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: Twitch updating their guidelines once again. I wonder if that

595
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: I Hate men conversation would have been so much like

596
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: we don't need men versus rape women, Like I don't

597
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: see men as but I mean, I get it, But

598
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: the level of vitriol feels like a little different. Yeah,

599
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: it's it's also just an inherent gender power balance that

600
00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: we're talking about there. Yea, So a lot of that

601
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: was a quote from gay Brant about it, and I

602
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: think that that was sort of the point was we

603
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 1: didn't have the conversation we should have had after this.

604
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: Um I was more like men being mad that Twitch

605
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: didn't take that down. There was a bigger and more

606
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: nuanced conversation we could have been having. I thought so

607
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: many things with the technology and social media, is that

608
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: we are not having the actual root of the problem

609
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: conversation and just putting small band aids. Because if we

610
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: did that and we actually faced what was the problem,

611
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: these platforms may lose a lot of money. Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep.

612
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: And yeah, as we've talked about in so many of

613
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 1: these episodes, many women have reported not feeling supported by

614
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: Twitch when they raised their hand about something, asked for

615
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: something hateful and pornographic to be removed, They're ignored and

616
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: they feel like they're only recourse is to leave. Aren't

617
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: get a new job if it's their job, because again,

618
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: for some people, this is their livelihood and this is

619
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: what they're dealing. But yeah, I uh, as we said

620
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: and read it. We've we've been focusing on a lot

621
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: of the negatives, but there are so many positives about

622
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: twitch right and there is so much community that people

623
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: have found and I've i mean, even in that goofy

624
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: fan fiction, I was like, this is so cool that

625
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: this exists. And I've heard friends who love it and

626
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: they talk about that part. So it is. It is

627
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: a place that can be really beautiful space for finding

628
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: people and connecting. Um, but we do have all of

629
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: these issues still that right did that we need to

630
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: talk about and focus on. I think there's so much

631
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: to be said with new platforms, and then when it

632
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: kind of blends into not longer have been just that

633
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: one little platform, so it's origination expands, like the I

634
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: r L stuff and that you understand, there's lines being blurred.

635
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 1: I am too much of a stickler and that is

636
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: no longer this anymore, So why are we calling it this?

637
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: This is all bleeding over again. I get everything from

638
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 1: to talk, so like I get Twitch streams like clips

639
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 1: that come over to TikTok um, So I'm very confused

640
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: about what I'm watching half the time, but not understanding

641
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: of that, it's not TikTok. Same thing with Instagram. I

642
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: am having a hard time, but in general, like you

643
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: you start wondering, you know, the purpose of it, and

644
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: then what it does expand because the purpose of it

645
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: begins to be about money, not about the community, and

646
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: then you have people who bring it back to that

647
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: community and it's nice to see. But there's just just

648
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: like the variation of when it comes to technology is

649
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: so vast, and it's growing so quickly. It doesn't seem

650
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: like the individual platforms can keep up, and it's always

651
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: a competition to be the next step up. That makes

652
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: sense yea, yeah, And as we talked about with Bridget

653
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: in our episode around her new podcast in Your Net

654
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: Hate Machine, I think there's also like there are people

655
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: marginalized communities on these platforms who love them and want

656
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: to use them, and when they speak up about them

657
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: are ignored. Like I feel like we're seeing that over

658
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: and over again. Right, Hey, here's a problem, and then yeah, nothing.

659
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: Something else we didn't really talk about we kind of

660
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: touched on, but is a positive thing about Twitch is

661
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: they do have a lot of streams that the company

662
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: will match often that are charitable that are for charity,

663
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: and that's something that Jamie is going to talk about

664
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: in our upcoming interview we did with her, so look

665
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: out for that. In the meantime, are there any streamers

666
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: you recommend listeners? Are you on Twitch? What's your experience been?

667
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: Please let us know. I would love to know. Yeah,

668
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: I thought you were asking me and I was like,

669
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: any did we not just go? I haven't been listening

670
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: to you the entire times about the although there is

671
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: someone from YouTube who has a Twitch channel that I

672
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: do like, which is a Girlfriend Reviews, which is this

673
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: play Together, and they are on Twitch and they do

674
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: SPoD things. I like their content. I don't know what

675
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: they looked like on Twitter, but I will recommend that.

676
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: I know that we talked about that with the last

677
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:11,959
Speaker 1: of us. Do lots of trauma? Yes, yes, Well please

678
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: let us know all of your recommendations and your experience.

679
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: If you have any UH you can email us a

680
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: stepping your mom stuff at I heart media dot com.

681
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom stuf, podcasts,

682
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: or Instagram and stuff I've never told you. Thanks as

683
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: always to our super producers, do know, thank you and

684
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening sho Nerturalise, production of I

685
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 1: Heeart Radio. For more podcast on my heart Radio, you

686
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: can check out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast or

687
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:32,479
Speaker 1: where you listen to your favorite shows,