1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 2: my name is Noel. They call me Bed. 7 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 3: We're joined as always with our super producer Alexis code 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 3: name Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. You 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 3: are here that makes this the stuff they don't want 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 3: you to know. It is time, hello, conspiracy realist for 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 3: you to join our show. Would love to give a big, 12 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 3: big thank you to everyone who hears us say stuff 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 3: like this and says, you know what. I Am going 14 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 3: to reach into the void. I Am going to contact 15 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 3: my friends over on stuff they don't want you to know, 16 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 3: via email, via telephonic device, via any number of things, 17 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 3: including walking Widershen's at crossroads. This is where we hear 18 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 3: from you. We are going to learn about witches. We 19 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 3: are going to learn about tragedies. We are going to 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 3: learn about hidden locusts or hidden loci of control throughout 21 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 3: the world, and all of these, in one way or another, 22 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 3: affect all of us directly. Perhaps we start with a 23 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 3: lovely piece of correspondence we received from across the pond 24 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 3: from someone who is what was the name nol Red 25 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 3: Scott Witch. 26 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 4: If I'm not mistaken, let's see or was it Scott's 27 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 4: Red Witch. Hold on a second, let's go right, you 28 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 4: got it? Yeah, yeah, Red Scott Witch here, let's just 29 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 4: get right into it. This definitely was in relation to 30 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 4: By the way, guys, I'm recording from a slightly different look, 31 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 4: and you might hear some siren songs, not the ones 32 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 4: that lure you to your demise, but you know, ones 33 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 4: from ambulances and the like them, kind of on an 34 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 4: exterior window of a building. So forgive that in advance. 35 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 4: But here we go right direct to the email, Red 36 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 4: Scott Witch here. 37 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 5: Huh. 38 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 4: Never thought I'd be sending a bunch of dudes guys 39 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 4: an email about my witchiness. I guess times are changing. 40 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 4: I finally had the courage to listen to how witch 41 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 4: Hunts actually worked, the How witch Hunts actually work podcasts, 42 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 4: and wanted to send a note to say thank you 43 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 4: for shining a light on the power women hold and 44 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 4: the fear it invokes in others. I would consider myself 45 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 4: a reluctant witch, not necessarily wickan pagan, but definitely have 46 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 4: stuff within that scares the out of me. So to 47 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 4: be completely out there, I'm able to connect with dead 48 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 4: people's energy. Yep, I talk to dead people. I didn't 49 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 4: ask for it, I don't necessarily want it, and it 50 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 4: is there and getting stronger as I get older. So 51 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 4: this redheaded Scott despises the word witch because of the 52 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 4: history and negativity surrounding it. Seen a Disney movie lately, 53 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 4: I do not have warts on my face, and when 54 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 4: I enter my Crone era, I am sure I won't 55 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 4: be as hunched over and evil as witches are portrayed 56 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 4: to be conspiracy against women. Once again, I think I 57 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 4: don't recall seeing a wart on Merlin's character. 58 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: It's very true. 59 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 4: Don't get me started. I'm sure you can sense a 60 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 4: bit of rage building. Anyways. I have been a huge 61 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 4: fan of your podcast, and I wonder if part of 62 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 4: it is about surrounding myself with men, guys, dudes, masculinity 63 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 4: where I don't feel like I'll be burned, drowned, or 64 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 4: come after. I am at a time in my life 65 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 4: where I would have been a prime target for the 66 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 4: witch hunts, and maybe there is comfort in knowing there 67 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 4: are humans that don't think being witchy is bad. Weird maybe, 68 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 4: but not bad or dangerous. I also listen to Josh 69 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 4: and Chuck, so it is refreshing to know there are 70 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 4: guys out there that have room for witchiness. If you 71 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 4: see them in the hallway, say hi for me. You bet. 72 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 4: I am not sure if you realized it, but your 73 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 4: podcasts help me feel safe. That's a big deal. My 74 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 4: next challenge is to listen to the Divine Intervention episode 75 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 4: not there yet, as I have lots of fear around 76 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 4: facing my own experiences without feeling shame. I'm a work 77 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 4: in progress. Thanks again for doing what you do best, 78 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 4: Red Scott Witch and Ben you actually you saw this 79 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 4: email as well as we see every email that comes 80 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 4: to us, like we say at the end of every episode, 81 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 4: and you wrote a lovely response back to Red Scott 82 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 4: Witch just about how you and I'm sure we can 83 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 4: all get behind this. It makes us feel really great 84 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 4: to know that in any way we can help contribute 85 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 4: to someone's feelings of safety and in security, or at 86 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 4: the very least be you know, an ally in any way, 87 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 4: shape or form. 88 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 3: Agree Yeah, and you know, I think we are unanimous 89 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 3: in that sentiment. And there's something interesting that happens here 90 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 3: read Scott, which, as we may have mentioned, you're not alone. 91 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 3: You're one of several folks who have written into us 92 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 3: and said, Hey, I was skeptical or I was hesitant 93 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 3: or trepidacious perhaps about tuning into a certain episode, right, 94 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 3: How which hunts actually worked, how divine intervention actually works, 95 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 3: things like that, And we do our level best as 96 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 3: a group to make sure that we're not falling prey 97 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 3: to the romanticization that so often occurs with some of 98 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 3: these things. And we endeavor, we endeavor in all things 99 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 3: to be objective, to be reasoned, and I think we 100 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 3: do an all right job overall. Right, Like we're not 101 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 3: dunking on things we don't understand, We're trying to understand them. 102 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 3: Is that fair? 103 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 4: Oh? One hundred percent. I think I've mentioned before on 104 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 4: the podcast there are people that are very close to 105 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 4: me in my life who consider themselves to be witchy 106 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 4: or witch adjacent for various reasons. And you know, have 107 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 4: very strong connections with the dead and with energy fields 108 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 4: and you know the like, and I you know, try 109 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 4: very hard to never be judge or to think about like, 110 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 4: oh is this true? Is this real? Because it's not 111 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 4: for me to say honestly, you know, I really have 112 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 4: gotten to a place in my old age, I guess 113 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 4: advancing age, that I just don't have room for that anymore. 114 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 4: And I really really try, outside of maybe the occasional 115 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 4: judgment towards people who are just plain hateful or use 116 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 4: beliefs in ways that divide people, I try never to 117 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 4: ever have any judgment when it comes to people's beliefs 118 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 4: as long as it's something that is just personal to 119 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 4: them and they aren't using it in any kind of 120 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 4: negative or mean spirited way. So and we talk about 121 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 4: it a lot too. In the Divine Intervention episode, I 122 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 4: think Red Scott, which pointing out their connection with the dead. 123 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 4: This to me feels very adjacent to the Divine Intervention, Slash, 124 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 4: Hearing Voices, slash, the witch hunt stuff, all of those. 125 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 4: I think we're kind of a triple threat, and they 126 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 4: have elements that really support and kind of enhance each 127 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 4: other in terms of how a lot of these things 128 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 4: sort of played with historical figures and folks that were 129 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 4: seen as being a threat. And I do think a 130 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 4: big part of what we were talking about was about 131 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 4: how this was just used as a tool to oppress women. 132 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 4: And recently I did a video update, you know, on 133 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 4: our YouTube channel or maybe on Instagram just about how 134 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 4: modern witch hunts, which was referencing something we talked about 135 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 4: in that very episode that this stuff is not just 136 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 4: relegated to the past. You know, there are parts of 137 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 4: the world that still do use these tactics as tools 138 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 4: of oppression, you know, to keep women subjugated and to 139 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 4: take their land and to take their prosperity. 140 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 3: And to further add because this has been an obsession 141 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 3: mind for some time, to further at the people who 142 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 3: are persecuted in these things that we call witch hunts. 143 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 3: If you do, if you do some diligent research, what 144 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 3: you find is it is historically, yes, women and female 145 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 3: identifying people are overwhelmingly targeted. However, there will also be, 146 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 3: especially in trying socioeconomic times, there will also be a 147 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 3: number of other demographic indicators that are targeted. Right now, 148 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 3: you can see various horrifying cases of people with albinism 149 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 3: targeted in countries across Sub Saharan Africa actually in different 150 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 3: parts of the continent overall, and these accusations, these moral panics. 151 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 3: They never occur because someone genuinely thought there was an insidious, 152 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 3: infernal conspiracy. They occur because people are having a terrible 153 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 3: time and they want someone to blame that they can 154 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 3: also harm. 155 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 4: Yeah or rob or deprive of their legacy, their heritage, 156 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 4: their belongings. 157 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 3: Shout out devil in the shape of a woman. 158 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 2: I've got a question for Red Scott Witch and anybody 159 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: else who's listening right now. And I'm asking this from 160 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: a genuine position of curiosity because I've had some weird 161 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: stuff mid meditation and dream sequence. What is the sensation 162 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: when you are communicating with dead people's energy? What are 163 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 2: the sites, the sounds, the all other sensory input. What 164 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 2: is that experience like for you? I think we'd all 165 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 2: be interested in the mechanisms, maybe like how it functions 166 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 2: for you. Again, that doesn't mean that's how it functions 167 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: for everybody. Sure, that's how you experience it. 168 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 4: And it made me think of the hearing voices stuff, 169 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 4: because you gotta wonder. We even on that episode talked 170 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 4: about what would that feel like? The idea of hearing 171 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 4: voices seems like you're describing a very objective thing like 172 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 4: there's a voice audible in your mind. But we talked 173 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 4: about how it's different folks that could be experienced very differently. 174 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 4: Your internal voice isn't necessarily a sound, you know, it's 175 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 4: like a psychic sound. Kind that's weird. 176 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 3: And there's so many people who do not have an 177 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 3: internal monologue, at least as they identify it, which I 178 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 3: think baffled a lot of us listening along that evening. 179 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 3: I love this question because your mileage may vary when 180 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 3: you're having these experiences. It may be multipolar. There are 181 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 3: in the historical record there are depictions of all of 182 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 3: the senses. Right. There are people who say I can 183 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 3: see dead people, and that's not a sixth sense reference. 184 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 3: There are people who will say, oh, I can hear someone, 185 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 3: or I feel something, or a memory springs to mind, 186 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 3: or one of the One of the very interesting ones 187 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 3: is the idea of a smell. Right, all of a sudden, 188 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 3: I have smell held this smell that I always associated 189 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 3: with my grandfather, right, or with a relative who was 190 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 3: passed on. So, if I agree with you, Matt, it 191 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 3: would be absolutely fascinating to hear more people's individual experiences 192 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 3: with this phenomenon. 193 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 4: Well, with that, I think it's time to take a 194 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 4: quick break, hear a word from our sponsor, and then 195 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 4: come back with more listener mail, and thank you again 196 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 4: to Red Scott Witch. 197 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: We're right back, and we're back. We're jumping to the 198 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 2: phone lines. Everybody to hear a message from Kitty. Just 199 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: minor warning here. The things Kitty is discussing then, what 200 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: we'll be discussing after I have to do with a 201 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 2: mass shooting event that occurred this year in Maine. You've 202 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 2: likely heard about it. It was a big deal and 203 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: a tragedy and a horrible thing, and we're going to 204 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 2: examine it a little bit. So if you don't want 205 00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 2: to hear about that, or if that's going to be triggering, 206 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 2: you go ahead and skip forward about fifteen minutes. We'll 207 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: see you then, or continue listening. Here's the message from Kitty. 208 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 5: Hi, my name is Kat, you can call me Pitty. 209 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 5: Uh So, I lived in Lewiston, Maine, which recently, as 210 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 5: you may know, made national headlines for there being one 211 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 5: of the deadliest mass shootings in history, the deadliest this 212 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 5: year and certainly the only one that mate has ever had. However, 213 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 5: something that came out of this is you know, and 214 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 5: looking at the suspect, he had cochlear implants recently put 215 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 5: in and you know, according to you know, the media, 216 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 5: which you knows, but he was like perfectly normal before 217 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 5: these cochlear implants were given to him and then started experiencing, 218 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 5: you know, auditory hallucinations of that were very humiliating and dehumanizing, 219 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 5: and that for of led him down this spiral of 220 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 5: you know, sort of psychosis. So I just thought it 221 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 5: was something that's interesting. Maybe you guys could look into 222 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 5: it or talk about it or maybe not, But to me, 223 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 5: it was fascinating because there is some literature. I'm a 224 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 5: doctorate student in social work and so I have access 225 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 5: to some peer reviewed stuff, and it does look like 226 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 5: there's some evidence that cochlear implants can lead to auditory 227 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 5: hallucinations and psychosis. So I just, you know, it's just 228 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 5: kind of fascinating. There's obviously plenty of conversation to be 229 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 5: had about the shooting in terms of politics and what 230 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 5: could have been done. Certainly its own beasts of the 231 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 5: topic and one that is certainly being debated in me 232 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 5: right now, particularly in my field. But I thought the 233 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 5: cochlear implant that was kind of fascinating. You know, why 234 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 5: why would that be, I guess? And in what are 235 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 5: we doing to help protect these sulks when they get 236 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 5: these implants? You know, how are we screening people who 237 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 5: are getting these how are making sure that they'll be okay? 238 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 5: And who's following up to make sure that these folks, 239 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 5: you know, have to support any if they do experience that. 240 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 5: So anyway, I love the show, longtime listener, and you know, 241 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 5: thank you guys for getting me through not only a 242 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 5: tough time in my community, but many years of tough 243 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 5: time in my field. So I look forward to it 244 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 5: every week. Thank you guys for all you do. Goodbye. 245 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: Well. As we said at the top, here we're talking 246 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 2: about a mass shooting that happened in Lewiston, Maine, where 247 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: Kitty hails from. This is a really interesting point that 248 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: somehow I completely missed when reading about this story. I 249 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 2: think personally maybe because it was yet another mass shooting 250 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: story that I felt I didn't want to explore too 251 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: much unless I had to just for literally literally for 252 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 2: my own mental health and stability. 253 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 4: Just how frequently these happens to the point where you 254 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 4: do have to almost self select. Yeah, because it's just overwhelming. 255 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, but this concept of cochlear implants in particular, or 256 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: hearing aids, any kind of sound amplification, inner ear amplification, 257 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 2: any technology like that, and then that association with potentially 258 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 2: musical ear or hearing voices or you know, anything to 259 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: where there's potentially an auditory hallucination occurring musically or syndrome, Yeah, exactly, musically, 260 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 2: or syndrome where sounds are coming in and those tones 261 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 2: are forming human vocalizations in your mind, right right in 262 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 2: your the transition between what that sound vibration actually is 263 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 2: to how your brain is taking in that information. It 264 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 2: does appear from a lot of reporting out of Newsweek 265 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: and New York Post and The Daily Beast. Even CBS 266 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: News picked up on it that there was something going 267 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: on with the suspect in that case, Robert Card, an 268 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: Army reservist who pretty shortly before this event, had visited 269 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 2: a psychiatric facility and he had stated to them, at 270 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: least according to the reporting, that he had been hearing voices. 271 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 2: He also had suffered some pretty severe hearing loss fairly 272 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: recently before this event to where he did need to 273 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 2: use some kind of hearing aids. I have not seen 274 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: the phrase cochlear implant used in any of that reporting. 275 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 2: I have seen high powered hearing aids, which those are 276 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 2: two very different things, right, So I don't know is. 277 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 4: The hypothesis that this is causing auditory hallucinations that are 278 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 4: being interpreted as voices of some kinds. 279 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: The hallucination would be changing grouping of sounds and tones, 280 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: or translating a group of tones into human speech as 281 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 2: you're hearing them, right, that would be the hallucination. 282 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it'd be very similar to and I'm cloud 283 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 3: we're bringing this up. First, I want to say, Kittie, 284 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 3: thank you for fighting the good fight and pursuing your 285 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 3: higher education in a way that betters society overall. The 286 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 3: point you're bringing up, Matt, if we look at it 287 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 3: through comparison, another example would be, imagine the last time 288 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 3: you looked at clouds, right, and you saw shapes in 289 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 3: the clouds, And you know, that's a very safe thing 290 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 3: for people to do, because we're exercising the brain's pattern 291 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 3: recognition tendency. In this case, there's the idea that having 292 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 3: this technological intervention which changes the things that you can 293 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 3: consciously hear, may in some way function in a code 294 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 3: morbid method with perhaps other mental conditions right, such that 295 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 3: your pattern identification goes a little bit beyond your conscious control. 296 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 3: And now you are hearing things that you could not 297 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 3: have heard before without this technological intervention. But your brain 298 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 3: doesn't quite know what to do with them. And if 299 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 3: there are a couple of preexisting sort of circumstances, then 300 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 3: it may interpret these things to your point in a 301 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: very damaging, a very damaging manner. Does that make sense? 302 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: Oh? 303 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does well. And also you have to put 304 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 2: yourself in a position of imagining the all all of 305 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 2: the sounds around you are being amplified way more than 306 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 2: they ever have been. Right now, imagine you're in a 307 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 2: crowded place like a bowling alley or a bar. If 308 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 2: you are that person sitting in that bar, you were 309 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 2: probably hearing a lot more conversation, a lot more clearly 310 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 2: than you would if you were just sitting there across 311 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 2: from somebody talking to them. Right, And then there's that susserus, 312 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 2: the murmur that's going on within the bar space or 313 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 2: the you know, large open bowling alley. I do imagine 314 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 2: it's probably a combination of that thing you're describing ben 315 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 2: and just actually hearing conversations out of context, but a 316 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: bunch of them at once, so that words become out 317 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 2: of context and phrases, and you know, the subjects and 318 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 2: the objects are all intermingling. 319 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 3: And your brain is prioritizing, maybe without your conscious consent. 320 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 3: I mean, it's similar in some ways, and not to 321 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 3: be glib at all, it's similar in some ways to 322 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 3: the depictions we see in fiction where someone discovers telepathy, right, 323 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, the world is too much 324 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 3: with us. Oh yeah, that that can happen. And if 325 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 3: you've ever had you're listening today and you've ever had 326 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 3: some sort of surgery like ear oh what was it like? 327 00:19:58,440 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 4: Ear? 328 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 3: Canal surgery? Things like that used to be quite common 329 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 3: once upon a time. Then you realize that the world 330 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 3: does seem to fundamentally change based on your ability to 331 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 3: experience it. So all of a sudden, you're hearing these 332 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:19,959 Speaker 3: new sounds and your brain is the unreliable narrator of 333 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 3: all this new information. 334 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, or if you're applying all of it to yourself, right, 335 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 2: So we do that as humans a lot. We will 336 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 2: kind of apply things have nothing to do with this 337 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 2: to ourselves. That's just another trait that many humans have. 338 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 2: I'm one of them, putting my hand up self identifying 339 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 2: with stuff that has none to do this. This is 340 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: very interesting because all of this is occurring very shortly. 341 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 2: This person, Robert Carter, is in these places we're describing, 342 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 2: hearing some of these things. He is reporting to his 343 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 2: family members, at least according to his sister in law, Katie, 344 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 2: who is either named last name Card or O'Neill, just 345 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 2: depending on which reporting you're believing, either Newsweek or New 346 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 2: York Post. Assuming he's probably Card, he was reporting to 347 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 2: his family that he was hearing voices and people in 348 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 2: these locations were speaking ill of him, saying things directly 349 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: about him, and he would tell his family that and 350 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 2: they didn't It wasn't that they didn't believe him. Here's 351 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 2: some quotations from Katie from the reporting this coming out 352 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 2: of New York Post. In the lead up to the shooting, 353 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 2: Card started using these high powered hearing aids. He truly 354 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 2: believed he was hearing people say things, and this all 355 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 2: happened just within the last few months. He would get 356 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 2: mad and claim we didn't believe him. We tried to 357 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 2: listen to him and tell him that nobody was talking 358 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 2: about him. When she goes on to say in the newsweek, 359 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 2: he basically he would just get very frustrated when trying 360 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 2: to express that he's hearing these things, these very specific things. 361 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 2: But his close family members were expressing that he's not 362 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 2: actually hearing that, and he's okay. You know, who knows 363 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 2: what led to what and why this terrible shooting occurred, 364 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 2: the worst mass shooting in Main's history. But the connection 365 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 2: between these like hearing aid devices no matter what they are, 366 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 2: and auditory hallucination, I think is something we we need 367 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 2: to look into even further. 368 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 3: Agreed it should be a follow up to our previous 369 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 3: episode on on hearing voices, because this is I mean, Kitty, 370 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 3: One of the best questions you ask is why there 371 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 3: is not some sort of check in or evaluation for 372 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 3: the for the application of hearing a technology in this 373 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 3: way right, Because I don't know. I agree with you, Matt, 374 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 3: I think this is something that bears much further investigation. Again, 375 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 3: it seems as if the technological intervention to improve this 376 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 3: shooter's hearing coincided with pre existing mental conditions, and if 377 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 3: you read through the publicly available information, about about his 378 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,479 Speaker 3: life leading up to this disaster, which I believe is 379 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 3: the tenth deadliest mass shooting in US history. Is that correct? 380 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: That's what I've seen in the reporting. Yeah. 381 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you read about this, then what you see 382 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 3: is that this was not a person who was feeling 383 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 3: completely one hundred percent on the up and up before 384 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 3: they got this technological intervention. 385 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 386 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 2: So let's just really quickly jump to something from WBZ 387 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: News that is a CBS affiliate out of Boston. They 388 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 2: were reporting all on October twenty sixth that he was 389 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 2: behaving erratically on July sixteenth while training at the United 390 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 2: States Military Academy and quote, out of concern for his safety, 391 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 2: the unit requested law enforcement be contacted. New York State 392 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: Police responded and transported him to the Keller Army Community 393 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 2: Hospital in the US Military Academy for medical evaluation. So 394 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 2: that I mean he went through something in July and 395 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 2: then the shooting occurred in October, so not a long 396 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 2: span between some kind of mental health crisis and this 397 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 2: mass shooting. It's tough because it becomes so politicized, just 398 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 2: as Kitty said, and we don't want that to occur 399 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 2: as much as possible, but looking at the science, I 400 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 2: think can't hurt anyone or anything. 401 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 3: It can only helped. 402 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 2: So thanks so much Kitty for sending us that message. 403 00:24:54,320 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 2: We will be right back with more messages from you. 404 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 3: And we have returned this one. Is This one may 405 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 3: seem somewhat dry and academic, but we promise you it 406 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 3: does matter. First off, what do you guys think about lithium? 407 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 4: Lithium the drug or the the rare earth metal. Yes, yeah, 408 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 4: the rare you know. Honestly, I don't think I know 409 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 4: too much about it, Ben, but I'm excited to learn. 410 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: Me too. Man. 411 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 4: Unrelated to the medication, right, they just happen to share 412 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 4: the same name, or is there I've always wondered is 413 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 4: there a crossover? 414 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 2: Is it not a metal just a metal substance. 415 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 4: Isn't it kind of a brittle like white metal that 416 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 4: can that can kind of crumble almost into a powder. 417 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 3: So lithium compounds, lithium salts, they're called, are what are 418 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 3: used as the psychiatric medicine or medication. Lithium itself the 419 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 3: soft metal, right, Lithium itself, the element is a soft 420 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 3: and a silvery white metal. If you saw it, you'd 421 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 3: probably think that looks like tinfoil, but lithium does, in 422 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 3: a very real way, in a very weird way, make 423 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 3: the world go round. Let's go to Jbird. Jaybird, you 424 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 3: recently wrote us the following. We'll read this long, we'll 425 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 3: explore it together, just like Rock City, and then we'll 426 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 3: stop along the way. So Jay Bird, you say, hey, guys, 427 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 3: I enjoy the show and thought this ongoid multi national 428 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 3: saga would be right up your ally. Beware it's a 429 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 3: can of worms. We'll also accept bag of badgers. JB. 430 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,719 Speaker 3: J Bird says, this story is a tangled web of 431 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 3: epic proportions. I'll try to provide a general outline. You 432 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 3: can dive as deep as you wish. The stories about 433 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 3: a lithium deposit and the Democratic Republic of Congo called Manono, 434 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 3: an Australian junior mineral exploration company called AVS, and to 435 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 3: all the government's crooks and individuals trying to steal or 436 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 3: otherwise personally capitalize upon it. The AVZ, says Jabert, their 437 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 3: managing director is a Tasmanian geologist who's worked on the 438 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 3: African continent fairly extensively. They got the permits they drilled 439 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 3: to prove their resource. Then they created a feasibility study 440 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 3: and turned out that this site they found in Minono 441 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 3: was one of the largest and purest lithium deposits on Earth. 442 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 3: We're talking in estimated value of twenty four trillion dollars 443 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 3: or something absurd like that. And we're going to paraphrase 444 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 3: a little bit here, folks. With this this proven study, 445 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 3: they did a IPO in initial public offering, They signed 446 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 3: an agreement with the world's largest battery manufacturer, then they 447 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 3: applied for a mining license and so on and so on, 448 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 3: and Jabert says, full disclosure. I bought some stock in 449 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 3: this Australian company because the research they had done showed 450 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 3: it was going to be one of the most ecologically 451 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 3: friendly mining operations. Okay, lot, I love your face there. 452 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 3: So ecologically friendly mining operations. That's a lot like the 453 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 3: most illiterate essayist at the Nobel You know, it seems paradoxical, 454 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 3: but Jay Bird says they were ecologically friendly because they 455 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 3: had hydrogen powered machinery. The electricity came from a nearby 456 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 3: hydro electric plant, and because they were publicly treated, this 457 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 3: company in Australia would have to be transparent so they 458 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 3: would minimize bribery, corruption, child labor, nasty stuff like that. 459 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 3: And then they got an approval from the high muckety 460 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 3: MUCKs in the government in this country, and they were 461 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 3: supposed to get a tax for what are called surface rights. 462 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 3: Then they get a permit, and then they could begin 463 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 3: actually building this mine that they had, Like millions of 464 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 3: dollars have already moved to and fro across the table here. 465 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 4: And Ben maybe silly question in terms of like the 466 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 4: value of the stuff and the way it affects our economy. 467 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 4: This is the same stuff that maybe goes into like 468 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 4: phone batteries, lithium ion, right. 469 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, lithium ion batteries, lithium metal batteries. It's used 470 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 3: to make steel and aluminium. It's used to make ceramics, 471 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 3: heat resistant glass, something called lithium grease lubricants, which I 472 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 3: don't I don't pretend to know much about, but it 473 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 3: does sound just cartoon experts. It just yeah, I'm not 474 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 3: a lithium lubricant expert, but this sounds specific enough to 475 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 3: be real. Matt, I see your headshake. We're working live. 476 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 4: I do also, I think I'm remembering from like my 477 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 4: early studies of the periodic table. Lithium in its raw 478 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 4: form is high reactive and can be dangerous, you know, 479 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 4: if they like I think, it reacts very violently with 480 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 4: water and can cause expensive reactions. 481 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 3: Super flammable too. Also learned a fun trick with a 482 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 3: little bit of aluminum and mercury recently. It's cool stuff. Uh, anyway, 483 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 3: hopefully that never comes in handy. But if we're ever 484 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 3: locked up in the wrong place. 485 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 4: Let's just cookbook type stuff. 486 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 3: Ben, Yeah, just remember, just remind me we got to 487 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 3: break the thermometer if they have aca there, and then 488 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 3: we're we're off to the races. It's so cool, I'll 489 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 3: send it to you guys later. So, with all this 490 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 3: stuff and our little anarchist cookbook level tip, if you 491 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 3: ever find yourself in an escapable situation, let's go back 492 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 3: to Jaybird. So j Bird says that there is a 493 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,959 Speaker 3: heck of a lot of corruption going on with a 494 00:30:54,120 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 3: state owned mining company called Comigner or Comygner, and they 495 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 3: are in an agreement with this Australian company. One of them, 496 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 3: the state owned company, has a twenty five percent stake 497 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 3: and then like it gets into the weeds pretty hard 498 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 3: here Jaber. This is perfect for a future episode. But 499 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 3: the problem is these folks started illegally selling shares to 500 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 3: a Chinese owned company named Zizhen, and they sold it 501 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 3: very off the books. Only a fraction of the value 502 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 3: got accounted for, and it was spent on. Get this, 503 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 3: This is a quote from Jaybird. Clemiennier illegally sold shares 504 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 3: to a Chinese owned company named Zizhen out from under 505 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 3: a VZ for a fraction of its value, with none 506 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 3: of the money accounted for. It was allegedly spent on 507 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 3: consulting fees and snacks. Snacks, snacks, dude, hopefully jolly ranchers, 508 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 3: you know, mountain dew dang. 509 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 2: I wonder how much that fifteen percent actually equals, Right, 510 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: that's probably a lot of money. 511 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 3: And it's still speculative money too, right, because you don't 512 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 3: get the money until you sell the lithium and process 513 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 3: it and all those other things. Uh. To make a 514 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 3: long story short, says Jabird. The situation has devolved into 515 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 3: several court cases at the ICC in Paris. And what 516 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 3: do we say in the United States about the International 517 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 3: Criminal Court? 518 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 2: Eh? 519 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 3: No way, not today, death, not today, will storm the Hague? 520 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: Go out and find out. 521 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 3: So there's a There are a couple of other international 522 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 3: entities that have been sucked into this, and j Bird says, 523 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 3: by the way, this Chinese company, Zishen, has one of 524 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 3: the worst human rights records in the world and has 525 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 3: been repeatedly trying to steal this lithium mining project from 526 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 3: this Australian company. They funded a compag to try and 527 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 3: overturn the company's board of directors and a hostile takeover. 528 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 3: They paid off journalists, they've bribed officials and judges in 529 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 3: the DRC, and they have infiltrated stock forums to try 530 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 3: to do some like fifty cent army kind of internet 531 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 3: trolling and astroturfing and so on. 532 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: Wow, I just want to know where you're getting all 533 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 2: this information, jabird. 534 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 3: Ja Bert says, Basically, whomever controls this mind controls the 535 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 3: global lithium market. It doesn't get a lot of media 536 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 3: attention because it's confused and because people don't really want 537 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 3: you to talk about it. That's us editorializing here. And 538 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 3: to your question, Matt, let's again we're paraphrasing a lot 539 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 3: because we're saving some of this for an episode. Let's 540 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 3: go to Jaybird's very last line, please don't state anything 541 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 3: I've written as fact, as I wrote this from memory 542 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 3: off the top of my head. Have fun, Jaybird, what 543 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 3: I don't know for off the dome. You got a 544 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 3: lot of facts, man. 545 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you're making up facts, j Bert, what 546 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 2: are we supposed to do about it? 547 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 3: Oh gosh, we haven't even mentioned lithium's use in nuclear physics. 548 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 3: What we'll leave the cat in? So he was like, yeah, 549 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 3: nuclear physics. So we've talked a little bit in the past, 550 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 3: you guys about the invisible, often invisible, cutthroat market of 551 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 3: rare earth metals and how much of the world depends 552 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 3: on them. My question at the top is do these 553 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 3: kind of machinations Do they feel like just the regular 554 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 3: dirty game of international business or is there something more 555 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,919 Speaker 3: at play? Is this a resource war? 556 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 2: If it was a resource war, it would feel more 557 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 2: like security services getting involved rather than stuff happening in 558 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 2: the boardroom. But I guess if you're doing it smart, 559 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 2: you know, like resource extractions, smart and wars in that way, 560 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 2: you would do it in the boardroom rather than on 561 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 2: the field. I'm just looking up some of the reporting 562 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 2: that you can find in Reuters and other places specifically 563 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 2: about AVZ Minerals that is being mentioned here. Yep, there is. 564 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,240 Speaker 2: There's some definite stuff going on, and it's talking about 565 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 2: these specific companies Xijian Mining. 566 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 3: Yibentanye and so on. 567 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's in here. 568 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely No, it's definitely real. I would also 569 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 3: point out while we're playing the f N game here 570 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 3: that right before Russia invaded Ukraine this time around, the 571 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 3: lithium resources of Ukraine were drawing huge global attention from 572 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 3: you guessed it, Chinese and Australia mining investors. I know, 573 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 3: I don't want to be Charlie Day about it, but coincidence. 574 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 2: It's important stuff. You like batteries, you like things that 575 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 2: run on batteries. 576 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,479 Speaker 4: About magnets, how do they work? 577 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:12,879 Speaker 5: How? 578 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 3: Also? 579 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 4: You know what? 580 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 3: Fine, I'll say it again, Noel, I'm sorry you have 581 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 3: to hear this again, But the problem with the ICP 582 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 3: song about where they mentioned magnets is that Shaggy too 583 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 3: Dope says magnets, how do they work? I don't want 584 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 3: to talk to a scientist. Your mothers be lying and 585 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 3: getting me pissed. 586 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 4: So in this Sun's a good rhyme, though, scientist with 587 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 4: lying and getting me pissed who saw it? 588 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 3: But at the same time that he is saying he 589 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 3: has no idea how magnets might work, which honestly, I 590 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 3: don't think we're all one hundred percent on. Then he 591 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 3: in the same line he acknowledges that there are people 592 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 3: who know, and he refuses to speak to them. 593 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're called sorcerers, ben duh magno sorcerer. 594 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 4: The very least alchemist at the very least. 595 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:01,839 Speaker 5: Yes. 596 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 3: Yes, maybe it's so weird that we haven't played D 597 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 3: and D together, But this is important because lithium is 598 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,439 Speaker 3: part of the rush to clean energy, right, and it's 599 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,919 Speaker 3: all well and good, I think for us to talk 600 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 3: about a future that is not reliant on fossil fuels. 601 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 3: But something that often gets missed and all the feel 602 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 3: good ted talkie arguments about this is those technologies that 603 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,879 Speaker 3: create this so called clean energy. They often come from 604 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,280 Speaker 3: dirty places, right, Like if you get an electric car 605 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 3: and you power that car on a coal powered energy grid, 606 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 3: what are you really doing. 607 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 2: It's true that that's one of the major what points 608 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 2: against the electrification of our vehicles. I don't know. 609 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 4: I love Lorn Michaels. 610 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 3: Electrification of our vehicle in my day, you push the. 611 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 2: Pop it's dirty energy no matter where it comes from. 612 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 3: H dirty. I don't wait, No, that's the wrong that's 613 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 3: the wrong accent. I did the wrong accent. 614 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:09,720 Speaker 4: Very hard to place accent. 615 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 3: This is a shout out Elave Musk, right, But this 616 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 3: is uh, this is something that I think we could 617 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 3: investigate further chambered in this specific case, we see a 618 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 3: microcosm a larger thing happening now. To Matt's point, is 619 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 3: it a resource war? Not yet? Not quite yet, however, 620 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 3: and I guess I should also say we are all 621 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 3: proponents of cleaning energy. As people who are not working 622 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 3: in that industry, we keep a pretty close eye on 623 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 3: these different alternatives the way they will shake out in 624 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 3: the world. So we are pro those improvements. However, it 625 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,799 Speaker 3: seems like there's a lot of stuff happening behind the 626 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 3: curtain regarding who controls this stuff, how they use it, 627 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 3: and where they use it. And so it's important to 628 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 3: keep your eye on because right now, for the global public, 629 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 3: that is the stuff they don't want you to know. 630 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 3: And with that, speaking of segues, we are going to 631 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 3: call it an evening Dodd approaches, which means we must 632 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,759 Speaker 3: enter torpor. We would like to hear from you. Let 633 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 3: us know what's on your mind, let us know what 634 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:25,879 Speaker 3: you think. Folks. We have come across multiple stories here 635 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 3: that will be episodes in the future, and we want 636 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 3: more of them. 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