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Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shondaland Audio in

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Speaker 1: partnership with iHeartRadio. What I love the most is the drawings,

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Speaker 1: Like on the last page, it's so you and Leslie

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Speaker 1: and Lucy and Abel. What was it like when you

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Speaker 1: showed them the book for the first time.

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Speaker 2: Oh, they loved it. They loved it and they joy

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Speaker 2: was so sweet and added little little Easter eggs in

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Speaker 2: throughout of special things that are to them, like the

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Speaker 2: Lucy's favorite bear is there, Abel's tiger Passy. And they

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Speaker 2: just noticed there were things that were actually theirs.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's did they were? They like, my

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Speaker 1: parents are the coolest? Or do they not get it?

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Speaker 2: No, no, they don't. They don't care about that. But

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Speaker 2: they love that the book was that they loved that

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Speaker 2: they were in the book. And when we went in

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Speaker 2: to record the song, we les and I recorded it first,

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Speaker 2: and then we brought the kids in.

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Speaker 3: Is that who is that the egg? Yeah? The kids?

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Speaker 3: That is not their voices? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Hello, everybody, All your mom's out there today. We

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Speaker 1: have a repeat guest because I just love her so much.

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Speaker 1: And also she just wrote a book, a children's book

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Speaker 1: that is so special, and I was like, we got

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Speaker 1: to talk about how you did that.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: Also, it's not only just a book, there's a song

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Speaker 1: that goes along with it. It's a new children's book

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Speaker 1: called I Love You More Than You'll Ever Know, written

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Speaker 1: by my dear dear friends Nicolette Robinson and Leslie Odom Junior. Also,

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Speaker 1: since she last came on, she was on an episode

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Speaker 1: in season two called Milestones when we were talking about

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Speaker 1: a one year birthday with her daughter Lucy, and guess

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Speaker 1: what now she has a son, Able, so we have

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Speaker 1: a lot to catch up on. She and I were

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Speaker 1: pregnant during COVID together, so I feel like we're bonded

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Speaker 1: for life, and I want to talk to all about

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Speaker 1: raising two children while being in the entertainment business with

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Speaker 1: her incredibly successful self and husband. She's best known as

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Speaker 1: the first black woman to take on the leading role

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Speaker 1: in the Broadway show Waitress that I Got to be

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Speaker 1: there for her Broadway debut. Her husband, Leslie Odom Junior,

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Speaker 1: is best known as the original Aaron Burr and hit

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Speaker 1: musical Hamilton. Nicolette recently partnered with Leslie in this new

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Speaker 1: children's book again, it's called I Love You More than

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Speaker 1: you'll ever know.

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Speaker 3: The two of them have a six year old daughter,

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Speaker 3: Lucille Ruby, and a two year old son, Abel.

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Speaker 1: Finney's Nicolette Welcome Back vibt Nicolette Robinson, I have not.

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Speaker 1: It is a disgusting amount of time that has gone

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Speaker 1: by since I've seen you, and I was. I feel

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Speaker 1: forever connected to you on so many levels. A because

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Speaker 1: I got to be there for your Broadway debut performance,

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Speaker 1: which was.

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Speaker 3: I know it was literal Hi. First of all, Hi,

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: I got to stand next to you for that debut

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't sing any of my parts because I

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Speaker 1: was so.

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Speaker 3: For clemped crying. I literally couldn't.

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Speaker 1: Like we have the openings up song, the first song

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Speaker 1: called opening Up, which is Nicolette doing all this stuff,

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Speaker 1: but then Dawn on one side and Natasha on the

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Speaker 1: other side. We have to do all these harmonies. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: I was not singing. I was just crying.

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Speaker 2: I think we were all crying. That was such a

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Speaker 2: Oh God, that was so special. It was the That

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Speaker 2: was the best year of my entire life for sure.

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Speaker 1: And also what was so crazy about it is that

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Speaker 1: we were making our Broadway debuts. Because I think I yeah,

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Speaker 1: like maybe a few weeks ahead. Yeah, and we both

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Speaker 1: had small children. Oh yeah, how old was Lucy at

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Speaker 1: the time?

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Speaker 2: Lucy was like fifteen months, I feel like, and what

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Speaker 2: I'lbi was like like ninety or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and he turned one when we were doing it.

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Speaker 1: So I started it and he was like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think eight or nine months, and then by the end

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Speaker 1: he was just turning a year.

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Speaker 2: But I feel like Albe's six or seven months younger

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Speaker 2: than Lucy.

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Speaker 3: I think, is she in kindergarten now?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she's in kindergarten.

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Speaker 1: And then what was insane was so we are connected

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Speaker 1: forever A because of Broadway debuts. B because we did

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Speaker 1: Broadway with small children, which is absolutely insane. And then

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Speaker 1: we got pregnant near each other during a global pandemic.

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Speaker 2: That was crazy. We just sinked it all up. We

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Speaker 2: just always sink our lives up and somehow.

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Speaker 1: And now you have two, we both have two. What

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Speaker 1: how is it feeling like? How is it feeling being

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Speaker 1: a mother of two?

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Speaker 2: I think we're finally in a So Lucy is six

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Speaker 2: and Abel is two. They both had just recently had birthdays.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I'm finally in a groove where I'm

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Speaker 2: starting like literally just started feeling like myself again, just

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Speaker 2: started getting my freedom.

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Speaker 1: Guy, are so linked up because I feel the same

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Speaker 1: way like Vias two and a half and Albie's five

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Speaker 1: and a half almost sikes and I finallyish feel better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's insanity. It's insanity what we do, the things

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Speaker 2: that we do as mom.

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Speaker 3: So they're in a good place.

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Speaker 1: You guys are in a groove is able, like it's

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Speaker 1: school or some sort of preschool or there's some sort

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Speaker 1: of care involved.

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Speaker 2: We haven nanny help. We have a lot of help actually,

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Speaker 2: because our that our mothers, both my mom and Leslie's

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Speaker 2: mom also lives in the area, so they get to

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Speaker 2: have some grandparent time and we have two people who

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Speaker 2: like in certain times, can fill in and help with

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Speaker 2: the kids. So it's which is I almost feel crazy

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Speaker 2: saying that because I know that's such a blessing, but

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Speaker 2: it's literally been the only way that les and I

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Speaker 2: can both be traveling at the same time for work.

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Speaker 1: And you guys work a ton a ton, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you both work out of town a ton yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it is a lot to manage. Have you done

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Speaker 1: any trips or jobs where you've taken them both, or

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Speaker 1: is it better and easier for you to just stay

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Speaker 1: at home and your mother. What's so cool about your

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Speaker 1: family unit and family bond is that your mother is

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Speaker 1: so involved, your dad's involved, and Leslie's parents are so involved, waitress,

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Speaker 1: your mom was like living with us, Yeah, living with

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Speaker 1: us and.

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Speaker 3: Taking care over.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So have you taken them to any jobs or have

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Speaker 3: you just or or do they always stay home?

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Speaker 2: I mean we're still kind of navigating that and figuring

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Speaker 2: it out. And I literally just started working again this

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Speaker 2: past year, not even past year, It's been like not

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Speaker 2: even six months. I just shot three movies back to

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Speaker 2: back and it was the most the biggest blessing, and

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Speaker 2: I find it and that's part of why I feel

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Speaker 2: a little bit more like myself again, because I'm actually

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Speaker 2: doing the stuff that I've been just craving and meeting

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Speaker 2: and that I love. Yeah, but that just started in

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Speaker 2: October September, October of last of this past year. We're

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Speaker 2: still figuring all that stuff out. But I know that

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Speaker 2: I would not have been able to do it without

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Speaker 2: the support system that we have. And you know how

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Speaker 2: hard it is to find nanny's that you trust and

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Speaker 2: you love, and it's been a process and we finally

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Speaker 2: feel like we found the best team around us and

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Speaker 2: the best system. It's massive. It's really the only way

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Speaker 2: that I think that's partially why the jobs came my way,

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Speaker 2: because I finally held the space for letting that in,

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Speaker 2: because I was so afraid of leaving the kids and

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Speaker 2: having to go and be busy and not be able

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Speaker 2: to like hold it down. A lot of the times

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Speaker 2: I'll go and just come back my stuff hasn't quite

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Speaker 2: been long enough. Like the longest one. The longest amount

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Speaker 2: of time I've been away was three and a half

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Speaker 2: weeks for one of the films I shot.

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Speaker 1: How was that I had? Yet I am so terrified.

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Speaker 1: Do you see like really sensitive about it?

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Speaker 3: Or is she like pretty? I feel like it depends

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Speaker 3: on the kid.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, my daughter right now, VIA's like okay by mommy,

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Speaker 1: and my son is like he counted the sub nights

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Speaker 1: I was away and then he uses it for weeks

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Speaker 1: up like then if I have to miss in bedtime

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Speaker 1: or something, he'll be.

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Speaker 3: Like, but you were just gone for seven nights.

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Speaker 2: But I, oh my god, I wonder honestly, if it's

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Speaker 2: boy girl thing because Lucy is totally she misses me,

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Speaker 2: but she's for sure a daddy's girl, and so she

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Speaker 2: honestly misses Les Moore when he's gone, and I think.

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Speaker 3: She misses me, but she I was like that growing up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and then Able he is completely a mama's boy.

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Speaker 2: This is his tears that's on my sweatshirt right now.

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Speaker 3: Saying dark mark on a sweatshirt.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I think you have something or

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Speaker 1: maybe it is a cool sweatshirts.

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Speaker 2: That refuse to go away. I don't know why it

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Speaker 2: hasn't dried or what, but I just have his tear

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Speaker 2: marks from when I just came into the back house

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Speaker 2: to do this podcast.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't want me Barnacle.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's mama. You're just a sweet guy.

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Speaker 3: Tell me.

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Speaker 1: Also, Okay, so you finally feel like you're in a groove.

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Speaker 1: You're looking you have a support system.

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Speaker 3: You left them.

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Speaker 1: Lucy deals well with it. Ables struggling, but he'll get

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Speaker 1: on board. Yeah, can you tell me.

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Speaker 3: I know you had a really rough fur.

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Speaker 1: I remember this vaguely, like your labor with Lucy was

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Speaker 1: unmedicated and it was a breastfeeding.

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Speaker 2: Road that was really tough.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I'm curious how Able's birth and his the

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Speaker 1: postpartum experience. Was it vastly different? Did you rectify things

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Speaker 1: that you didn't like the first time around? Talk to

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Speaker 1: me about the two different experiences.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you remember Also that, like, my pregnancy

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Speaker 2: with Lucy was really challenging because Les was shooting a

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Speaker 2: movie in Europe for most of the time and he

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Speaker 2: was like in and out of town constantly, and so

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Speaker 2: I had a huge percentage of my pregnancy the first

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Speaker 2: pregnancy by myself, and emotionally it was. It was so hard.

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Speaker 2: I only feel like I'm at a place where I've

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Speaker 2: moved past it, but it's still is this close to

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Speaker 2: the surface that if I talk too much about it,

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Speaker 2: I could start crying. Yeah, And it was a tough

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Speaker 2: time in our marriage. Honestly, we really went through it,

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Speaker 2: and that was probably one of the hardest times in

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Speaker 2: our marriage.

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Speaker 3: And you guys have been together a long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, fifteen years now, this summer is how long? And

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Speaker 2: we just celebrated our ten year wedding anniversary in December.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Crazy, it's crazy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So you have ups and downs, and you being

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Speaker 1: alone for your first pregnancy and just feeling. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to say the word abandoned, because it's not like

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Speaker 1: he did it on purpose. He booked a great opportunities,

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Speaker 1: but that's hard, and.

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Speaker 2: We were navigating it for the first time. We really

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Speaker 2: didn't know what to expect, and he also was going

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Speaker 2: through his own sort of crisis of becoming a dad

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Speaker 2: for the first time. And I was just like going

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Speaker 2: through all these milestones going to doctor's appointments by myself,

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Speaker 2: and which is now super normal for everybody because we've

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Speaker 2: all dealt with the pandemic, but I know that was

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Speaker 2: a really hard thing for a lot of people to

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Speaker 2: go through, to just go to doctor's appointments by themselves.

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Speaker 2: And then I'd feel the feel her kicking and moving

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Speaker 2: for the first time, and I'd just be in bed

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Speaker 2: by myself. Oh, that was suck. It was awful. It

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Speaker 2: was so awful. The second time around, we did this

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Speaker 2: during the pandemic, and we were just together more than

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Speaker 2: we have ever been in our entire relationship, except for

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Speaker 2: maybe the beginning of our relationship when we were both

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Speaker 2: unemployed actors, just in our West Hollywood tiny apartment, and

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Speaker 2: so that was such a beautiful healing experience. Because we

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Speaker 2: just got to be together for so much of it

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Speaker 2: as a family, and so starting with that, and then

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Speaker 2: also I worked out through most of my pregnancy, which

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Speaker 2: really helped me feel better in my body for the

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Speaker 2: second time, which I didn't do with Lucy. And then

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Speaker 2: also the song was that.

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Speaker 1: For specific reasons like it didn't feel good or you

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Speaker 1: were just not Oh maybe you were just sad, like

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Speaker 1: you were depressed about him being not there and you

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Speaker 1: just didn't have the energy to I think so.

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Speaker 2: And I think also I wasn't working out like regularly

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Speaker 2: in my even before before pregnancy. Yeah, it wasn't really

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Speaker 2: a part of my just like everyday life. And if

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Speaker 2: I was doing a theater thing at the time or

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Speaker 2: training for something, or if we were like we're gonna

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Speaker 2: do P ninety X together, we would do stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: You remember that I haven't heard of P ninety X.

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Speaker 3: Everybody was.

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Speaker 2: I mean that I think I don't know, but I

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Speaker 2: feel like it's still something you could look up on YouTube. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: I loved it and I've been thinking about it.

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Speaker 3: Ninety X. I haven't heard that in I want to

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Speaker 3: say nine ers.

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Speaker 1: Now, there's just like a million, a million ways to

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Speaker 1: work out the first one it really was.

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Speaker 2: It really was. And there was like one other one.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember the name of it, but yeah, that

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Speaker 2: is the funniest I ever heard.

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Speaker 1: So your second pregnancy, you were active, which probably help.

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Speaker 2: It helped so much. I didn't want the bounce back

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Speaker 2: to be so awful. I mean, the first time the

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Speaker 2: bounce back was it was it just felt impossible. It

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Speaker 2: still happened. We still do it, and your body goes

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Speaker 2: back in its own time, even if whether you're exercising

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Speaker 2: or not. But I just didn't want it to feel

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Speaker 2: like torture, and so keeping active really helped my body

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Speaker 2: feel better.

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Speaker 1: You're also such a mover, like as a person like

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Speaker 1: you and Leslie like you're just like because you're such.

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Speaker 3: A performer and like a whole body performer.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it must have felt really weird for you

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Speaker 1: to like be stagnant with your first pregnancy and then

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Speaker 1: try to get back because you like dance and sing

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Speaker 1: and act and do all these things.

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Speaker 2: And then your body just changes and you don't know

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Speaker 2: what the hell is going on. And Lauren Wiseman who

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Speaker 2: Wiseman Sacks, I always say her maide a name, but

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Speaker 2: she's the most amazing. She has this program, this company

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Speaker 2: called Mama Method, and she's just basically like my personal trainer.

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Speaker 2: She just does pilates and yoga and bar with me

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Speaker 2: and she's one of my best friends.

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Speaker 3: I don't know her. The Mama Method it's like workout

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Speaker 3: for pregnancy.

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Speaker 2: For Mama's basically, I mean, because she still trains me

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Speaker 2: now and she's gotten me in some of the best

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Speaker 2: shape I've ever been in my life. Aside from when

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Speaker 2: I did p ninety X, I.

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Speaker 3: Had to look her up.

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Speaker 2: I also did hypno birthing.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I want to hear this about So you did

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Speaker 1: hypno birthing with Abel, not with Lucy?

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Speaker 3: What brought on that decision?

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Speaker 2: So I had, as many people do. I had a

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Speaker 2: lot of trauma after the first labor with Lucy. It

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Speaker 2: just it just scared me. I don't know, I just

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Speaker 2: it's an intense thing that we go through.

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Speaker 3: And you had no epidural with her, right.

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Speaker 2: No epidural?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: What the that's crazy. But it was also a pretty

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Speaker 2: fast labor. I feel like it was like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: six hours total or something. So it was very fast

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Speaker 2: and furious, and medically it was a very safe, very

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Speaker 2: like really textbook text books like birth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, why was it so traumatic for you? You think

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Speaker 1: just because it's so fucking traumatic?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's it. It just took me a really

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Speaker 2: long time to get past the trauma of it, and

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Speaker 2: like the fear that you're like gonna die, but it's

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Speaker 2: actually like, no, the moment you feel like you're gonna

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Speaker 2: die means the baby's about to come out.

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Speaker 1: I read that in an interview when I was doing

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Speaker 1: research on you. Didn't you say that till in the

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Speaker 1: labor you were like, I'm gonna want to die?

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Speaker 2: Oh no. I turned to him and I looked at

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Speaker 2: him and I genuinely asked him, am I gonna die?

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Speaker 2: And he was like he looked to our doula and

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Speaker 2: was like eyebrows raised, No, You're not gonna die.

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Speaker 3: I had epidurals both times, and I'm just like.

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Speaker 2: Oh, and you had the best you had the best experience.

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Speaker 1: Well, both our birds were the best. I loved them

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Speaker 1: so much, but I was heavily medicated.

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Speaker 3: I love drugs.

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Speaker 1: I think it's so impressive that people do it because

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Speaker 1: it sounds so painfull, But women have been doing it

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Speaker 1: since the beginning of time.

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Speaker 2: I've had trauma in my past with with anesthesia. When

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Speaker 2: I was a kid, I got my consoles out when

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Speaker 2: I was like five, and ever since I had those

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Speaker 2: the anesthesia and had I had a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a complication back then, and so ever since then, I

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Speaker 2: have had night terrors throughout my life. And it's always

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Speaker 2: the same sort of thing, but it's very scary, and

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Speaker 2: it usually is triggered when I have a fever and

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Speaker 2: when I have some sort of drowsy medication. Yeah Vicadin

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Speaker 2: or Nike will or Diamond tap back when I was

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Speaker 2: a kid, so I was really nervous about how my

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Speaker 2: body would react to the epidural and how I would

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Speaker 2: feel like out of control of my body. And so

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Speaker 2: my doula, who wasn't my dula the second time round,

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Speaker 2: but she was my dula the first time. Her name

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Speaker 2: is Erica Chitty.

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Speaker 3: She's I love her. She's been on pod, She's been

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Speaker 3: on She's been on Katie's crib.

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Speaker 2: She's so incredible and so knowledgeable. And she stopped doing births,

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Speaker 2: but she just we asked her as a favorite used

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Speaker 2: to become a dear friend. That she trained Leslie for

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Speaker 2: my second berth to help to Basically.

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Speaker 3: No, I know, he's not a train train duel.

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Speaker 2: He's not a doula, but she taught him things that

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Speaker 2: he can do to help my body feel better and

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Speaker 2: all that. But she recommended that because I had such

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Speaker 2: a good experience with the labor the first time around,

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Speaker 2: because a lot of my fear comes from the unknown.

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Speaker 2: I get very nervous when I don't know what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen. And she was like, because you now have

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Speaker 2: an idea of what's going to happen and your body

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Speaker 2: responds so well to it, she was like, I'd recommend

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Speaker 2: you just do it the same way that you did

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Speaker 2: it the first time. And so I opted to not

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Speaker 2: do epidural with the second time around for able.

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Speaker 3: And it was.

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Speaker 2: Fast, right, It was very fast. Yeah. I went into

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Speaker 2: labor with Abel around like three am in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the night, and then and we headed to the

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Speaker 2: hospital around four thirty in the morning. My contraction started

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Speaker 2: picking up and then he was here by nine thirty

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Speaker 2: something in the morning.

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Speaker 3: Did it just feel far more in your control?

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Speaker 2: It did, And a lot of the leading up to it,

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Speaker 2: like even when I was having like deep contractions and

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Speaker 2: we were we made it to the hospital and LEZ

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Speaker 2: was helping me. I had the hypno Birthing app in

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Speaker 2: my headphones and anytime I would have a contraction, I'd

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Speaker 2: push start on it. It would guide me through.

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Speaker 3: This breathing tell us what hypno birthing is exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I found this company that has just a

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Speaker 2: series of videos that teach you like a seminar on

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Speaker 2: hypno birthing, and it's called the Positive Birth Company. I

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Speaker 2: think they're based in the UK. I just bought the

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Speaker 2: series of videos where they in like a handful of hours,

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Speaker 2: they teach you how to do hypno birthing and they

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Speaker 2: teach you about your body and what your body goes

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Speaker 2: through during labor and hypno birthing is basically just getting

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Speaker 2: yourself into a very meditative space so that you can

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Speaker 2: just breathe through the contractions and what could potentially feel traumatic.

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Speaker 2: It really lessens the pain for you in a way.

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Speaker 2: Some people don't feel pain at all. I don't know

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Speaker 2: how that happened.

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Speaker 3: Some people have like orgasms.

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Speaker 2: It's I don't understand it.

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Speaker 3: I don't that is.

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Speaker 2: God bless them, God bless them, God bless them.

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Speaker 3: But wows.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I they have an app that they that

402
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,400
Speaker 2: they you can download and you put your headphones in,

403
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 2: and I just anytime I get a contraction, it would breathe.

404
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 2: It teaches you breathe in two three four whole two

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Speaker 2: three and then the accent or whatever it is, and

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Speaker 2: they like, it's basically just a very meditative and it's

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Speaker 2: like this woman with a British accent and.

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Speaker 1: She's, oh, and you did not do this the first

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Speaker 1: time around. You do this this second time.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, And it really helped me. It really

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Speaker 2: helped me. Now, I will say Abel was a much

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Speaker 2: bigger baby the second time around. He was eight pounds

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Speaker 2: ten ounces when he came out, which we did not know.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, if I had known this baby

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Speaker 2: was that big, I would have opted for the epidural

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Speaker 2: because so it wasn't as traumatic of a labor. But

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Speaker 2: I will say giving birth to him was the hardest

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Speaker 2: thing I've ever done, and I do not need to

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Speaker 2: do it again after that.

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Speaker 3: The pushing was so aggressively hard.

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Speaker 2: The actual pushing was very intense, but I did it

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Speaker 2: and it was not Even though it was the hardest

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Speaker 2: thing that I've ever done in my entire life, I

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Speaker 2: don't feel trauma from it. I don't.

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Speaker 3: Thank God, what a healing opportunity.

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Speaker 1: I have a handful of friends who just had really

427
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Speaker 1: traumatic experiences the first time around, and they did heal

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Speaker 1: themselves through the second opportunity, Like they really just learned

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Speaker 1: a lot from the first time around and learned what

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Speaker 1: they do or don't want and set themselves up. I

431
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 1: feel like for like massive success to sort of heal

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Speaker 1: your relationship. Was your postpartum experience the same or different?

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Speaker 2: Very different? It was so different. Yeah, I definitely had

434
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 2: some version of postpartum depression the first time around, for sure,

435
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 2: and breastfeeding, as we talked about, was so rough for

436
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Speaker 2: me with Lucy. The second time around, I totally took

437
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 2: the pressure off myself because the moment I quit breastfeeding

438
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Speaker 2: with my first baby, I literally felt the clouds parting.

439
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Speaker 2: I could see again.

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Speaker 1: Was it just so much pressure you put on yourself

441
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 1: the first time around that I have to breastfeed, I

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Speaker 1: want to breastfeed and you was so connected to like

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Speaker 1: being a failure or something like that, and it wasn't

444
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: working out and it was just nothing but hard.

445
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was so painful and it was so

446
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 2: scary and it was like, and I just had this

447
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 2: tiny baby, and there's also there's so much anxiety that

448
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 2: comes just with having a tiny human for the first

449
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,239
Speaker 2: time and not knowing, like how do I care for

450
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 2: this person. Eventually you realize that your instincts kick in

451
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 2: and it's all gonna be okay. But I, yeah, it

452
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 2: was just too much the first time around. And I

453
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 2: stopped breastfeeding at five weeks with Lucy the first time around,

454
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 2: and it changed my life. I finally was on a

455
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 2: path to like feeling.

456
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 3: Happiness, yeah, motherhood.

457
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. So the second time around, because I

458
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 2: knew that that was very likely to happen, I took all.

459
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 2: I was like, if tomorrow I decided I want to

460
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: quit breastfeeding, I will quit breastfeeding. My other child was

461
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 2: raised on formula and she is totally healthy and happy

462
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 2: and thriving. And it also allowed for other people to

463
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 2: help me, and so I wasn't completely sleep deprived. Abel

464
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 2: was a bigger baby and his latch was really great,

465
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: and so he did really well. He responded really well

466
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 2: to breastfeeding, and so I ended up breastfeeding him for

467
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 2: like seven and a half weeks, which went much longer

468
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 2: than I even expected, and yeah, it was just in general,

469
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: I had less anxiety. The second time around, I had

470
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 2: more appreciation for the moment. You know how fleeting this

471
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 2: newborn phase is, so I was able to really enjoy it.

472
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 2: And it was still a crazy ride because at the

473
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 2: time I was when I was four weeks postpartum. Les

474
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: was nominated for an Oscar that year and we went

475
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 2: to the Oscars.

476
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 3: I will never forget it.

477
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 1: It's like you were, like, I remember, You're changing into

478
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 1: some like massive dress or something like in the back

479
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: of a car with boob like milk filled boobs.

480
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 2: I I because I had so much issues with breastfeeding

481
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 2: the first time around. I realized that pumping my breasts

482
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: didn't respond to pumping. That's how I would get clog ducts.

483
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: So I was not pumping at all, so I was

484
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 2: solely breastfeeding the baby. So they were so amazing, the

485
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 2: like Leslie's publicists and team and also the people at

486
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 2: the Oscars. We got a Mercedes.

487
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: What's those those huge van show up with the baby,

488
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 1: so she breastfeed.

489
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 2: My mom stayed in the van. My mom we got

490
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: a hotel that was like blocks away. My mom was

491
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 2: in the van with the baby, and anytime it was

492
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 2: time to breastfeed him, I would go in this big

493
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: sprinter van like the ones you could stay in, took

494
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: my dress off, printer I would leave during commercial break

495
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: of the oscars, take my dress off, breastfeed my child

496
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 2: in the van, put the dress back on, get my

497
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 2: mom to like zip me back in. And I was

498
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 2: also wearing three corsets underneath it, and then I'd go

499
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 2: back into the oscars and pictures of me. My boobs

500
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: were ginormous during that time.

501
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: Well, you are very fortunate to have a nice rack

502
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 1: as it is, so I'm sure when.

503
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 2: They're like so, they were massive, massive, But the wh.

504
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: God, Nicolete, I remember seeing pictures and videos of this

505
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: and being like, if this isn't like the greatest motherhood

506
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: like shit that I've ever seen.

507
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 3: It was belie un believable.

508
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you had any of the postpartum

509
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: blues or depression that you had with Lucy?

510
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 3: Did that not happen at all with Abel?

511
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 2: Not as much. There's still the challenges always, and motherhood

512
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: is a shock to the system, especially when you have

513
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 2: small babies. There's a always things that come in anxiety

514
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 2: and this and that, and sometimes like feeling like trapped

515
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 2: because your babies only want you, or sometimes you're the

516
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: only one that can care for the baby, and so

517
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 2: it can be very isolating. But I definitely navigated that

518
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 2: so much easier the second time around. And it was

519
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 2: challenging because Les had to go shoot knives out two

520
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: in Greece when when Abel was two months old.

521
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 3: Oh I remember that too, didn't you guys?

522
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: Go We went for three weeks Abel was like three

523
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 2: months and my mom and my sister and a family

524
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: friend we all traveled together and I took the kids.

525
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 2: But then I had to leave after three weeks because

526
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: my best friend was getting married and we were moving

527
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: out of our house into a new one, and so

528
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: I had to move us out of this house with

529
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: the three month old baby.

530
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: Three month old Oh my god, who was jetlagged, probably from.

531
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 2: All they both were, And Lucy honestly was the worst

532
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: at that time because she was like three or four.

533
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: She was four, and the jet lag made her just

534
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 2: an awful person.

535
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, god, oh my god, she's so cute. Yeah.

536
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 2: And then I did seven weeks straight while Les was

537
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: still in Greece of doing the nights by myself because

538
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: we hadn't sleep trained able yet, and it was just

539
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 2: it was very challenging, but even that was more manageable

540
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 2: than the first time around.

541
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: It goes to show you, like, mental health around this

542
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: whole thing is really the whole game, because you can

543
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: if you like hormonally and chemically and mentally are well

544
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: and supported, like you can get through it. Like you

545
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: can get through it. But if you are miserable, like

546
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: you're the first time with Lucy and you were having

547
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: such a hard time breastfeeding and things like that, were

548
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: you just sobbing uncontrollably, like for no reason, were you

549
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh.

550
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was so sad. I remember the first time

551
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 2: my parents and my sister and my now brother in law,

552
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: they all came over for the first time for dinner

553
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 2: after Lucy was born. And it was like maybe a

554
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 2: week or two weeks after the baby was born. And

555
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: I'm so close with my family and my mom helps

556
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 2: me so much with taking care of babies, but just

557
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 2: having that many people in my house, I had so

558
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: much anxiety and I just sobbed that night, and I

559
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: cried all through dinner, and I was like, I'm okay,

560
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be fine. But I just I felt so overwhelmed,

561
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: even just by my own family members who I'm so

562
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 2: close with being in the house with me. It was

563
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: so wild and I just did not understand.

564
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 3: It's so irrational.

565
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: I look back on some photos so via I had

566
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: November twenty second, and there I can remember New Year's Eve.

567
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: So that's six weeks later when most people if it's

568
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: postpartum blues lifts, but.

569
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I was.

570
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 1: You went through it, but oh my god, I went

571
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: down gus. But I remember New Year's Eve. My family's

572
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: over to my parents, my brother, his wife, who are

573
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 1: again I'm so close with them, like you guys, and

574
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: they're all over for dinner, and during dinner, I'm having

575
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: like quiet panic attacks that I'm trying to hide from everybody.

576
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: And I just excused myself at nine o'clock and literally

577
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 1: sat in my shower, like praying for the panic to stop.

578
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: And why was I feeling so overwhelmed? And I couldn't

579
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: enjoy anybody or this at all like it was. And

580
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: I'd look back at photos, I don't even look like myself,

581
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: Like I look like a shell, Like, yeah, it's so

582
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 1: fucked up.

583
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: I would I had similar moments of just like going

584
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: into my bathroom and just like sitting on the floor

585
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: of my bathroom just crying and being like when am

586
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: I gonna feel okay?

587
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: Like I like this or myself? Why is everything terrible?

588
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

589
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: Why do I feel so unhappy in my life? It

590
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: was really I totally know what you're talking about. And

591
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: it can feel so completely overwhelming, And but I will

592
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: say it really does stop at a certain point, especially

593
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: if you can get that mental health help. It's what

594
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: in whatever way it is, so it feels inescapable, but true,

595
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: really you can escape it. There is way out.

596
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: Did yours just lift over time with Lucy? Like you

597
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: just started to get better? Yeah?

598
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: I mean and I even felt some of that with Able,

599
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 2: like with the two kids, like some of that like

600
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: unhappiness of am I going to feel happy with my

601
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 2: life again? Why do I? Why are there days where

602
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: I hate being a mom? Like I really I and

603
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: I love my kids more than anything, but there were

604
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: days where I was like, I don't like this, I

605
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: don't want to do this, and it just can feel overwhelming.

606
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: I think therapy for me was a big component. Exercise

607
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: was huge for me. The second time around.

608
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 3: That's real.

609
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 2: I swear to you that was my if when I

610
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 2: finally started setting time for myself, which it's so hard

611
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: to carve out that time and it feels almost impossible.

612
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: But when I started to set aside one day a

613
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: week where I could just work out on Zoom with

614
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: my friend, with Lauren who would train me, or whatever

615
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 2: way it is, doing yoga or something, it was the

616
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: ultimate self care for me in that moment.

617
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: That's a huge tip for yea.

618
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 2: Even just one day, even one hour out of your

619
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: entire week just helps you breathe, It helps you feel

620
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: like you're putting time for yourself, and it helps you

621
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: move your body and it really does start to lift

622
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: some It lets you have a way to get some

623
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: of that out of your body which you're carrying so much.

624
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: That was huge for me for sure.

625
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: That's freaking massive, like totally massive. Now we have this

626
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: incredible book called I Love You More Than You'll Ever Know,

627
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: written by Leslie Odom Junior and Nicolette Robinson, illustrated by

628
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: Joy huang Ruiz.

629
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 3: How did this caut It is amazing. The song is ridiculous.

630
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed. How did this happen?

631
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: Whose idea was it, How did you do it? Tell

632
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: me all the things.

633
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: We've always been interested. Ever since we became parents, we've

634
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 2: been just navigating this world step by step, trying to

635
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: figure out how the hell to not screw up your kids,

636
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: how to do this parent thing. And as we were

637
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: doing it, we started to just realize the things that

638
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: we really loved about the children's world and what are

639
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: ways that we would want to contribute. Also, for a while,

640
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: we would be like, let's start a children's clothing line.

641
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: I hate the lady's clothes are made. We got to

642
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: make it easier, and that was always a dream, and

643
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: so then we were like, let's start a little simpler.

644
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: And bedtime is such a huge ritual in our household.

645
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: We always do bathtime and then we read books together,

646
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 2: and then we sing a song together, and then we

647
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: say prayer and we put the kids to bed and

648
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: picking books. There are some times, you know as a parent,

649
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: where your kid is just going to want to read

650
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: the same book over and over again, listen to the

651
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: same songs or whatever it is. And so we yeah,

652
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: we just thought it would be really special to be

653
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: able to add to people's libraries and add to our

654
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: own and so Les had put out a book a

655
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: couple of years a few years ago and had great publishers,

656
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: and at his book release, one of his editors was asking, so,

657
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: do you guys do you ever want to do a book?

658
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 2: And I was like, less and I We've always thought

659
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: about doing a children's book together. A year after that,

660
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: they came to us and they were like, do you

661
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: guys want to do it? Do you want? Should we

662
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 2: just make it happen? And we dove in. It's crazy

663
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: the children's book world. You can take two or three

664
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: years from the start. Really, yes, Wow, it's a big

665
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: long process because also the illustrator needs at least a year.

666
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, was someone like more the writer?

667
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: Someone's more the like, how did you guys work together

668
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: on that? I know because when I work together all

669
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: the time on things, and we have such lanes that

670
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: we stick in, like I'm the talker and the sort

671
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: of overall vision and he's the I'm not very great

672
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: at writing. How do you guys split it up? Or

673
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: is it pretty organic? Like you're having some wine at

674
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: dinner and you're.

675
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 3: Like, here's the first page. How does it work?

676
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 2: We wrote this book during the pandemic. So we would

677
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 2: put Lucy to bed, pour ourselves glasses of wine, and

678
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: sit at our dining room table with our journals out.

679
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 2: And we started just by setting a timer and doing

680
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: like free rights on our own individually and trying to

681
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: figure out even what we wanted to write. And because

682
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: we both are singers and we and music is such

683
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 2: a big component in our lives and in our household,

684
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: we realized that we wanted to make whatever this book

685
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: is something that could be also a song.

686
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: The book is a beautiful book, and all of the

687
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: words of the book are all so the lyrics to

688
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: the song that goes with it, which is I could

689
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: listen to the two of you harmonize on a song.

690
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: Simply forever. It's insane. Oh my gosh.

691
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's a great So that was the idea.

692
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: The idea was whatever we write has to always also

693
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: be lyrics to a song.

694
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: We just approached it as a song. We would just

695
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: each write on our own and we'd finally get something down,

696
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: and we also came up with the melody of it

697
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 2: before we started writing it, so we could figure it

698
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 2: out as a song and we would just have start

699
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 2: building on what we had and it was kind of

700
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 2: just best idea wins we would just write. Yeah, it

701
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 2: was really very organic. It was scary and challenging because

702
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: you're always like afraid to enter this new realm and

703
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 2: also being a writer that feels very intimidating. But it

704
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: happened really organically. It was really a lovely process.

705
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: Would you say the process was like easy or were

706
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: you guys like tearing each other's.

707
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeh, strangely no, I think if we had done the

708
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 2: you know, a few years before, it would have been

709
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 2: a different story. But we've learned to really work well

710
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 2: together and it was just like very lovely. It was

711
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 2: a sweet thing to get to do together. And then

712
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: the process of it once we picked our illustrator and

713
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: she said yes, we just got to get drafts of

714
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: her stuff, which was so amazing. Oh they're so beautiful.

715
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: So beautiful, this illustrator who's she's some CREDI wang ruise.

716
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: Yes.

717
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: And what's so beautiful about the book is it's obviously

718
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: there are so many different looking people in the book,

719
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: which is so incredible.

720
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 3: Was that such a huge important piece here?

721
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 2: That was really like the main thing that we told

722
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 2: Joy when she dove in to start, we recorded a

723
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 2: demo of the song too, Like once the book was written,

724
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: we also recorded the song. We sent it to her

725
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 2: and her process. She said she listened to the song

726
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: over and over again and just started to see what

727
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: images came to her mind, and she we just let

728
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: her do whatever she wanted. She did such a beautiful job,

729
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: like way better than we could have ever imagined. But

730
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 2: we are. One thing was that we wanted it to

731
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 2: be very inclusive. We wanted all the households and the

732
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 2: families and any of the children with whatever adults are

733
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: in their lives, whether it's parents or mentors or grandparents

734
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: or aunties, babysitters, any of that.

735
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 3: It's really beautiful.

736
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: There's so many different colors and ages and white and

737
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: black and with glasses and without glasses, and with it

738
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: there's different kinds of dress and really representative of lots

739
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: and two daddies and I mean, there's just so many

740
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: different people. But what I love the most is the drawings.

741
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: Like on the last page, it's so you and Leslie

742
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: and Lucy and Abel. What was it like when you

743
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: showed them the book for the first time.

744
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 2: Oh, they loved it. They loved it. And they joy

745
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 2: was so sweet and added little little Easter eggs in

746
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: throughout of special things that are to them, like the

747
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: Lucy's favorite bear is they're Abel's tiger Passy. And they

748
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 2: just noticed there were things that were actually theirs.

749
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's did they were?

750
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: They like, my parents are the coolest? Or do they

751
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 3: not get it?

752
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: No, no, they don't. They don't care about that, but

753
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: they love that the book was that. They loved that

754
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: they were in the book. And when we went in

755
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: to record the song, we Les and I recorded it

756
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: first and then we brought the kids in.

757
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: Is that who is that the egg? Yeah? The kids?

758
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: That is not their voices?

759
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they loved it. They even Abel was just

760
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 2: like who barely even was speaking at the time. He

761
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 2: was singing along, just whispering into them the end.

762
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 3: Of the song, which I just listened to before this interview.

763
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: Again, it's suck guys anytime you can listen to Leslie

764
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: and Nicolette sing together. They also have this most beautiful

765
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: duet on Leslie's holiday album that's a Jewish song called.

766
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: What is it called moussor?

767
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, your two voices together are things so gorgeous.

768
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 1: But this song I love you more than you'll ever

769
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: know the end kind of versus our little kids' voices,

770
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, they got professional little kids singers.

771
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, Lucy, and then some of our friends, Lucy's best

772
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 2: friend Maggie saying on it, and then Maggie's parents who

773
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: are also dear friends of ours, and then Able. Yeah,

774
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: it was just they came in one day and they

775
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 2: had a blast. It was so sweet.

776
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 1: May have genetically also been passed down your keen talents combined,

777
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: which will make her the greatest singer on earth.

778
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 2: She certainly loves it. I mean it brings her.

779
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: To such a huge part of your household. I'm sure

780
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: you are singing all the time. This is so like,

781
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: how does it feel being an author?

782
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 2: It's so cool, And you know, it's so crazy. We

783
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 2: made it on the New York Times bestseller list with

784
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 2: this book, so I know it's crazy.

785
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 3: God week, you gotta here, So it's crazy.

786
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 2: It's a very it's a great honor. We did not

787
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: expect that to happen at all. We were just so

788
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: grateful to release it into the world and people have

789
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: been so receptive and kind about it. But it's very cool.

790
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: It's very cool.

791
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 3: My god, Nicolete, So are you going to have a third?

792
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 2: No?

793
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 3: Are you?

794
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? God?

795
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:16,959
Speaker 3: Oh god in hell.

796
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: I just I'm so done. I'm so happy with what

797
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: we I feel very blessed, i feel very grateful. I'm

798
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 2: currently waiting for my period to arrive right now. But

799
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 2: it's it's just always stressful. Why is it always so stressful?

800
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: I'm careful too, but you're still like no, You're like,

801
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: what if the fate something buried with me?

802
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: Is like, I just really hope not, I.

803
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 3: Really, And I'm too scared to get an id.

804
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: Everyone I know that, I know, I've heard. I just

805
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 2: I don't love the idea of it.

806
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 3: I don't either.

807
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,439
Speaker 1: And my friends I have friends who swear by them

808
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: love it greatest thing that ever happened. Yes, friends that

809
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: swear by it love it so much, never feel it,

810
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: and their periods are like down to nothing because of it,

811
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: and they love it so much. I've had a few

812
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: friends do it who said it was the most painful

813
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: experience they've ever had.

814
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it really just depends on the person. And

815
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 2: I also just I hear that you can like feel.

816
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 3: It while you're having sex.

817
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's I don't know. Maybe I'm spreading rumors.

818
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 2: I don't know enough about it.

819
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: I know, I think that's although I do have one

820
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 1: friend where she said things got freaky and she did

821
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: feel it. But I but all my other friends that

822
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: says that's fucking bullshit. They joke on her all the

823
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: time saying that is you're trying to say your sex

824
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: life is the craziest shit of all time, and that

825
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:28,959
Speaker 1: is not true.

826
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 3: You cannot feel it. I don't know.

827
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: But and then I was like, well, Adam should just

828
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: get a asect to me, which like he's down. But

829
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: then I heard and everyone can know this, which, by

830
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: the way, if we ever have Adam Shapiro wan as

831
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: a guest again, which I really want to, I heard

832
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: a rumor that if you're someone that has like really

833
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: and again, I'm gonna spread rumors right now. I heard

834
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: if you're someone who is super sensitive balls that if

835
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: you get a visect to me that they will be

836
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: really sensitive for like the rest of your life. Oh man,

837
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: I don't know if any of them this is true. No,

838
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: we are not doctors on this podcast.

839
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 3: People.

840
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: I do have a friend whose husband, god of a

841
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: sectomy and they're so happy and he's wooh. But I

842
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 2: don't know anything about them, but I definitely love the

843
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 2: idea of it. I'm like, was, why don't you just

844
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: get affair?

845
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: We've been through hell and back, like it just sucks anyway,

846
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: so we're both done. My questions for you that I asked,

847
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: was there anything on your registry for Lucy or Abel

848
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: that you couldn't have lived without.

849
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 2: I loved the Duna car seat stroller. Freaking yeah you

850
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 2: had it that you had the Duna when we were

851
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 2: doing our back chasers COVID vaccine chaser crazy ladies.

852
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: Just okay, I mean, we have to do whatever we

853
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: can do to protect our family. Oh my god, minds

854
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: our fault. We were hormonal. Yeah, the douna it's so expensive,

855
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's weird. I thought it was worth every dollar.

856
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: Especially if you travel and or if you live like

857
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 2: in New York, or if you go to New York

858
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: a lot or a city where you have to take

859
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 2: public transportation or anything like that. It's the Juna was

860
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 2: super super helpful. I ended up using it a lot,

861
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: just as our regular car seat.

862
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 3: Me too, me too.

863
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was great. That's one having a little mini

864
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: fridge in your bedroom. That changed the game. So you

865
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 2: can have the formula like I didn't teach my kids

866
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 2: to care about temperature, like they would drink it cold

867
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 2: room temperature like they did not care and that was

868
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: a huge help for me.

869
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: Interesting, so from this start, you never really warmed it

870
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 1: up right. Never smart. Someone told me that about wipe

871
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 1: warmers once. Someone was like, don't put the wipes in

872
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: the wipe warmer because then they're gonna be like always

873
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: expect the whites to be warm, and like.

874
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 2: I stopped that with Abel. I didn't do with Abel.

875
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 3: Poor guy.

876
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: Do you find in your household that the first child

877
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: in the second child sort of generalizations are true that

878
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: like the first child got all the attention in the

879
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: classes and all this extra things, and you were so careful,

880
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: and then the second kid is just like I don't

881
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: even know where that person is.

882
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: Yes, I can tell you what time Lucy was born,

883
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: and with able, I have to think twice. There's just

884
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: so many things you forget.

885
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't remember Vera's weight, Like yeah, no, idea,

886
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 1: I really remember, and you probably remember he was so big.

887
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 3: Finished this sentence. Parenthood is.

888
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: Mm Parenthood is a journey. It is a journey. Honestly,

889
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 2: Parenthood is a blessing. Parenthood is fucking hard and yeah,

890
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 2: but it is a blessing. Parenthood is a blessing too.

891
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 3: I agree.

892
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 2: We have so much to catch up on. I need

893
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: to come so much to.

894
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 3: Catch up on.

895
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: Come over, have some wine. Seriously, thank you so much

896
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 1: for coming back on Katie's Crib. It is so wonderful

897
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: to catch back up to your life, to hear about

898
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: how it's going as a family of four, as a

899
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 1: mother of two, as a New York Times best selling author.

900
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: Oh you're listening, please check out the book I Love

901
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: You more Than You'll Ever Know, written by Leslie Odom

902
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 1: Junior and Nicolette Robinson, illustrated by Joy huang Ruiz, and

903
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: the song that goes along with it.

904
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 2: You can find that on YouTube if you go to

905
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 2: if you type and I Love You more Than You

906
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 2: Ever Know You'll ever Know on YouTube. It's just for

907
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 2: free right up there. The song.

908
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,720
Speaker 1: Anytime anyone gets a chance to hear your two voices

909
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: independently of each other and also together, is a real

910
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: treat on the senses. Thank you for coming on Katie's

911
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: Crib again. Congratulations on your beautiful family and your beautiful

912
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: career and all of the things.

913
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 3: That are going on in your life.

914
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't all be happening to a better person and family.

915
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 2: Oh I love you.

916
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 3: I love you so much.

917
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 2: I love you.

918
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode.

919
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: I want to hear from you. Let's chat questions, comments, concerns.

920
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 3: Let me know.

921
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: You can always find me at Katiescrib at Shondaland dot com.

922
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: Katie's Crib is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership

923
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the

924
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

925
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: favorite shows.