WEBVTT - Anne Applebaum & Michael Tomasky 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly john Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.400 today's best minds, and a Reuter's IPSOS poll found that 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.520 sixty eight percent of Americans do not believe Donald Trump's 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.279 State of the Union claim that the US economy is booming. 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:20.439 We have such a great show for you today, the 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.759 Atlantics and Applebaum stops by to talk about Trump's attempts 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.720 to tell the American people up is down and down 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.520 is up. Then we'll talk to the New Republics. Mike 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:34.360 tamask you about what Democrats should be doing to continue 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.640 to highlight Trump's ties to Epstein. But first the news. 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:43.120 Smiling, I would say, Mike Johnson's majority is hanging by 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.239 a thread. But a thread might be a little much 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.280 of an exaggeration. Right now, so we have Tony Gonzalez 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.800 who is facing a world of fuckery with his accusations. 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.720 His district office staffer set herself on fire after he 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:01.080 harassed her and had an affair with texted her. 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.080 Truly things that I did not know adults text. Well, 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:06.000 maybe I knew adults text each other, but it really 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.679 was unbecoming anyway. So now we have learned that in 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.240 a room full of GOP donors at a party retreat 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:17.120 that Florida Repneil Done has a terminal diagnosis, but is 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:18.880 going to try to stay in office and make it 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:20.200 to his term send. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.080 The end of his term, which means he would need 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.760 to make it until and if he doesn't. Republicans have 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.479 a one seat majority right now, so there's a world 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.320 in which they lose the House before even the election. 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.440 I think it's unlikely, but it's certainly possible. 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.680 Yeah, And it just seems you know, we saw, we 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.120 discussed Mitch McConnell last week having a senior moment and 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.119 then taking a fall, and it just seems real, real 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.880 grim over in those parts. For these days, they really 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:50.800 are hanging on bio very little. 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:53.800 Yeah, I mean, Mitch mcconnald's in the Senate, but certainly 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.600 there are very old people in the House. Unfortunately, there 0:01:57.600 --> 0:01:59.560 are also very old people in the House on the 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.880 Democratic side. And by the way, in order for Mike 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.160 Johnson to win things, he needs all the votes in 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.040 order to pass things, So they really have a numbers 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.639 problem in the House for Republicans, and it means they're 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:14.240 not going to be able to pass other stuff. And 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:18.200 remember this very scary Save Act, which is this act 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.120 which would make it so that if you're a woman 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.880 who changed your name when you got married, you basically 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.520 can't vote. The only way to pass that is with 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:27.919 sixty votes, and they don't have it. They would need 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.960 to get Democrats or they would need to block the filibuster, 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:32.440 which seems very unlikely. 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:33.040 Yeah. 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:37.880 Okay, so today Bill Clinton testified just as Hillary did yesterday, 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.240 and seemed like they got to see the same Hillary 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.079 we saw when she did testimony. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:44.240 On Big Gazi. 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.840 But now Jamie Roskins says, it's let Nick time, baby. 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.919 Yeah, here's the story about that. And again I think 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.400 it's important to remember James Comer, who's the head of 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.840 the Oversight Committee, is not very smart. You know, he 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.760 thinks that he's doing himself some brilliant churn here having 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.679 Bill and Hillary speak. Conservatives are obsessed with the Clintons, 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:09.440 but realistically, I don't think that normal people care. Right, Like, 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.880 she's not running for president, he's not running for president. 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:17.520 That dynasty is over, so I don't know, Like I 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.760 understand that it's fun for them, and I understand that 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.520 there's like a contingent of people who really hate them, 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:26.720 but they don't have a lot to do with the 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.560 Democratic Party at large. What Comer fails to understand is 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.760 that he's setting a new president here. So if you 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:37.880 can have Bill Clinton testify, that means remember, so much 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.400 of DC is about norms and not laws, right Like, 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.720 you don't go after former presidents in this way. You 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.440 don't have them in congressional hearings because these are norms, 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.520 but it's not against the law. You've had Bill and Hillary, 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.120 and that means that you can have Trump, you can 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:55.600 have Don Junior, you can have all the kids, you 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.200 can have Malania, you can have the whole kit in 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.080 kaboodle because you've set a president, which says, you know, 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.360 Milania is more implicated in the Epstein files. There's that 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:09.080 nice email, this very friendly email she writes to Golane. 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.280 You know Hillary doesn't have that. I mean, I do think, 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.880 by the way, that if Hillary and Bill are culpable 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.280 in any way that for sure they should be held responsible. 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.080 And if they're in if it's found that the money 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:25.640 that Gilaine gave them was involved in starting the Clinton 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:29.640 Global Initiative, that probably should go. So I'm not in 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.440 any way signing off on their involvement here. I'm just 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:38.040 saying it sets a precedent like Lutnik, LATINX wife, LATINOX 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.640 kids like you have opened the door to a lot 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.960 of oversight that I don't think Republicans necessarily. 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.720 Want, Yes, especially after that picture of Howard look they 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.760 looking like a Backstreet Boys video on Epstein Island. But 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:52.720 we do see that Trump said that what Nick is 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.919 a very innocent guy, and Maxwell Frost has a reply 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.520 of that, which is that he is a certain many 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:01.600 times that he knew nothing of Epstein's crimes. How can 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:03.760 you know for sure what Nick's a very innocent guy? 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:08.360 Yes, and even before that, Trump said I've been fully exonerated. 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:10.320 That's his favorite thing to say. He says, I've been 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:15.360 fully exonerated. Lutinx very innocent. Meanwhile, the DOJ pulled a 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:21.440 picture of Lutnik and his kids off the Ebstein files site, 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:26.520 which is not something you do when you're very innocent, 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:28.680 or maybe it is. I mean, that's the thing, is 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:31.479 like the cover up is becoming bigger than the crimes, 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.160 and so it's just the fact that they're behaving in 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:39.039 a way that seems very very very guilty. Strikes me 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.880 as a pretty good sign that there's where there's smoke, 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:42.480 there's fire. 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:43.280 Agreed. 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:48.560 So the Democrats are demanding seventeen hundred dollars tariff ree 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:49.600 funds for Americans. 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.320 Yeah, they're not the only ones. And there are a 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:57.600 lot of companies, like hundreds of companies suing this administration. 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:58.000 Now for tariffs. 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.080 And I'm not sure Trump understood that this is coming, 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.880 but the Supreme Court now said they are illegal, and 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:10.159 now that means that if they're illegal, that means that 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:12.359 you can get that money back. This is all like 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.479 this thing that Trump does with the unintended consequences, which 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.039 is like puts these tariffs down. The Supreme Court says 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.160 they're illegal, that means that money has to go back 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:23.880 to people. So, by the way, it's important to remember 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.120 like Trump has fired huge swaths of the federal government, 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:31.120 so now you have less people working on more stuff, 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:35.279 and he's constantly making more and more stuff for people 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.640 to do. I think that it's just you know, we 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:42.240 saw Pritzker out of the gate being like you owe 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:46.640 each Illinois resident seventeen hundred bucks or whatever. This is 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.120 a good thing for Democrats to run on because it's 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:55.880 so stupid. Here's Trump doing stupid crap, and Democrats have 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:58.839 an opportunity, you know, they can just say it's making 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.440 life more expensive for but which by the way, you know, 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:03.320 I just want to go back to Trump's State of 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:07.479 the Union on Tuesday. There are these dials that people 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.040 turn to measure sentiment. You know, they have a group 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.120 of watchers, and it tends to be more Republican, at 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.280 least for thirty eight percent more republican right they're watching it, 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.840 And when he would say the Golden Age, the sentiment 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.480 would go down. They didn't like the Golden Age. And 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.480 it's hard for me to think of a phrase that 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:30.040 Moore invokes trump Ism. And it's just striking to me 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.720 that that is where people were like, no dice, because 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.000 I think historically, if you looked back on that, that 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.720 phrase has done really well for him. And these changes 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.239 happen slowly and then quickly, and we're in the middle 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:45.960 of watching a big change. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.840 That's a great, great point. So Maya, I will tell you. 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.720 Last night, the news break that Netflix is dropping its 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:57.000 bid for the Warner Brothers deal and Paramount would get it, 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:58.360 giving the Ellison's control. 0:07:58.360 --> 0:07:59.680 I've been dying to know what you think. 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:01.920 But I think it's very interesting that Rob Bunta, the 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.560 attorney general we've had on from California before. 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:06.400 Is the frequent guest of the show. 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:10.280 Yes, it's saying that's so fast their chief. 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.800 Yeah. I mean, look, it would be malpractice for Democrats 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.440 not to be all over this. There are a couple 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.560 of things that I think it's worth just pointing out 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:23.240 about this. First of all, this deal is really expensive. 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.800 The reason that Netflix dropped out of it may have 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.600 been because Trump, you gave them a hard time, but 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:32.000 it's also because it's really expensive and they see that 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.760 the Elesons are over paying here. Now, it's also important 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.560 to realize, like Netflix wasn't even going to buy CNN, 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:42.520 and there CNN has gotten really small. And I know 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.000 that there are a lot of people who think CNN 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:49.600 is really important, and I understand that, and I don't disagree. Look, 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.400 I am a work for MSNBC. I get it. But 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:54.600 I just think there would have been a cheaper way 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.280 to get CNN, which would have been to let Netflix 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.040 buy this and then spin out CNN and buy it 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:03.640 that way. And the fact that they're doing it in 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.760 this wildly expensive way when Larry ellison stock itself is down. 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.559 And I know he's very, very very rich, and he can, 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.400 you know, just like Elon he can you know, throw 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.280 the balls in the air and service the debt. But 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:17.280 if you look at this deal, it has a huge 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.880 amount of debt, like crazy levels of debt. And maybe 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:24.840 I'm wrong, maybe David Ellison is very very smart. There's 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.840 not a lot of evidence to support that, FYI. And 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.760 also last year he was just like running a studio 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.319 no one had ever heard of. So I just think 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.360 Larry has done this before with his kids. He did 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:39.040 this with his daughter. It was a disaster. I'm not 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.080 convinced that this ends well. That said, there's also just 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.079 a ton of regulatory hurdles that can be put up here, 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.040 and they should be because it's a monopoly and there's 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.240 antitrust stuff here up the wazoo. Right, you'll own all 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:55.360 these news networks, they'll own you know, whatever, two studios. 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.640 They'll be a huge amount of jobs lost. Democrats should 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:02.800 put regulatory hurdles in their states, should sue the California 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.480 AG has some jurisdiction. And then the other thing is 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.400 that I think that this is going to take a 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:13.360 long time. So Trump may not be the free wheeling autocrat. 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.440 You know, if the midterms happen the way they're supposed 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:18.839 to happen, Trump may not have the kind of power 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.160 and control he has right now, and so this may 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:26.280 all not go through. So again, who knows. But I 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.439 wouldn't say it's I don't think that people should treat 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:33.400 this like the end of the world. I think it's bad, 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.839 and it's certainly not good, but I also think there 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.679 are there are reasons that may work against it. 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.680 Yeah, and I think it's very interesting that you know, 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:44.559 everybody's saying they're going to take it, see it that 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:46.680 to make it Fox News. It's like, there's not a 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:48.880 market for this. There's a reason these networks sort of 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.000 have it. If the Ellisons try to do that, they're 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:52.120 going to lose a lot of money. 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.600 Yeah. I mean, they're doing it with CBS and they 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.400 don't seem to care. So I'm not convinced that they 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.600 won't do that. I think they might try to do that, 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.760 but I think that like when you see with CBS, 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.120 like they've done that and they're down twenty five percent, 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.960 So you don't have a captive audience and even TikTok 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.480 isn't TitTat down people using TikTok. 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:14.800 Yes, that is correct. 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.120 They won't obviously publicly say what the numbers are, but 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.280 it seems very obvious that they lost a million viewers. 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.080 Yeah, so, I mean that's the thing. It's like, you 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.520 can't necessarily like my Space was a thing until it wasn't. 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.920 And you know, you have certain like with x there's 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.800 a certain amount of stickiness despite the fact that the 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:37.640 algorithm has been so juiced to be conservative and elevate 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.840 Elon Musk. But a lot of these sites don't necessarily 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.600 have that kind of stickiness. I just am not convinced 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.320 that these are. I don't know, We'll see what happens. 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.640 I mean this anything could happen here. I do think 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.560 I was a little bit wrong about Twitter, Like I 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.880 thought he would just kill it, and instead he's sort 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:56.640 of it's you know, because people are still on there, 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:00.600 because politicians are still on there. It has a way. 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:09.440 We have exciting news over at our YouTube channel. The 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:14.160 third episode is out now from our series Project twenty 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:18.280 twenty nine, are reimagining, where we examine what went wrong 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.880 with democrats approach to policy and how we can correct 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:27.280 it and deliver changes for the American people. The first 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:33.800 episodes dove into campaign finance, reform, antitrust, and regulation. Our 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:39.360 newest episode is on how we solidify reproductive rights for women. 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.720 We talk to the smartest names in the field, like 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:47.320 Abortion every Day is Jessica Valenti, The Center for Reproductive Rights, 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:53.000 Nancy Northok UCLA is own Mary Ziegler, and the gout 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:58.079 Macher Institute's Kelly Badden. Republicans were prepared for when they 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.480 got the levers of power. Democrats need to be too. 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.960 So please head over to YouTube and search Molly John 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.560 Fast Project twenty twenty nine or go to the Fast 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:13.280 Politics YouTube channel page and you'll find it there. Help 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.600 us spread the word. And Applebaum is a writer at 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.520 the Atlantic and the author of Autocracy, Inc. The Dictators 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:22.960 who Want to run the World. 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.880 Welcome, Welcome, and Applebaum Greetings. 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.960 I want you to talk about where Europe is in 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:33.480 this moment, because I don't think Americans quite understand what 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.280 it is happening across the Atlantic. 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.559 It's a great question because a lot is happening across 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.400 the Atlantic, and no, Americans don't understand it. So you're 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:47.080 the premise of your question is correct. Look, I think 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.559 that what happened in the last six weeks to not 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:55.200 all Europeans, but certainly northern Europeans was pretty extreme. So 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:59.880 remember what happened in January. The Danish government came to believe, 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.800 both because of things Trump said in public and because 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.920 of other information that they had, that an actual invasion 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:10.160 of Greenland might be imminent. This is their territory, those 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.280 are Danish citizens. They put it in Danish elections, so 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:17.760 they mentally prepared for this. They thought about whether they 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.560 would shoot count American planes, They thought about whether they 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.880 would shoot American soldiers, would American soldiers shoot badic at them? 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.160 What would this do to NATO? What would it do 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.440 to the economy? Same conversation went on in most other 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:30.320 European countries. 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:30.560 I know. 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.600 The Germans were particularly freaked out. They were also aware 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.320 that America might be about to be at war with 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.560 one of their close allies, you know, Denmark, you know, 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:44.080 very integrated into the German economy too, and they went 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.440 through this mental exercise, Okay, that's it, we might really 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.720 be going to war with America. And then of course 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.120 it came to an end. Trump gave a speech at 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.720 Davos in which he sort of threw out the idea 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.120 and he mixed up Greenland and Iceland three times, and 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.080 he rambled on about a lot of other things. But 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.520 I don't think people have recovered. So I've just been 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:07.080 to Copenhagen. I was there last week and I met, 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.680 you know, one person after another who asked me exactly 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.880 the question you just said. Do Americans know what happened? 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:14.880 Do they know how angry that? Or do do they 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.840 care that we're angry? And I had to tell them, no, 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.480 I don't think Americans know. I'm not sure they care, 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.200 and I'm not sure they realized the significance of it. 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.160 I was in both Munich. I was the Munich Security Conference, 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.920 and then I was in Denmark, and in both places 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.600 I heard people talking about how to hedge against America, 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.800 how to disconnect from America. You know, how we need 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.359 to deal with European American technology and American defense technology, 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.640 and how we need to build something different. And none 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.080 of this is going to happen overnight and won't happened quickly, 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:49.160 but a very clear shift has happened. I mean over 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:53.520 the past i'd say two or three months from people saying, well, 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:55.400 you know Trump, we can deal with him. You know, 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.640 whatever he has, he has quirks and it's all a 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.680 little strange, but we can find a modus operande to 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.200 people saying, Okay, this is really serious. This is a 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.200 different kind of country to the one that we thought 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.200 was our Ally, we can't cope with it anymore. 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.640 There's like a truth question here when it comes to Trump, 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:17.080 which I think is incredibly disturbing, which is like, it 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:22.080 does strike me. Remember Iran obviously not people you can 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.760 take to the bank, but they did say that Trump 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:30.560 had maybe lied about what the war sort of what's 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.600 happening with his wanting to go to war, And I 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.520 wonder if you could talk about that's that seems like 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.160 a very I mean, we have certainly had presidents lie 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:44.480 about war before, but we've never had it has never 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:51.360 seemed so possible that Iran might have a point we have. 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.800 So first of all, remember that we have also struck 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.240 Iran before Trump did it last year, and at the time, 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.280 the administration claimed they had destroyed Iran's nuclear program. So 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:04.640 if that was the case, then why are we now 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.760 negotiating with Iran about their nuclear program. Why did we 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.200 just assemble this massive force in the Middle East supposedly 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.080 to deal with Eron's nuclear program? So, I mean, the 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.320 lies are on multiple levels. There was lies about the 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:21.080 last engagement. There lies about this engagement. This one seems 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.639 likely to happen, maybe again in the next few days. 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.560 The administration has given no explanation for it. There is 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.240 no clear goal. We don't know what it's for. Is 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.200 it regime change, is it nuclear? Is it some other goal. 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.840 There's no discussion with the American people. Trump didn't mention it, 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.840 didn't talk about the you know at length about a 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.159 coming war with Iran, and his State of the Union speech. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.840 The Congress hasn't been told. I saw a quote from 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:48.560 some members of Congress today saying, no one's briefed us. 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.399 We don't know what's happening, and we don't know why. 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:52.760 I mean, so there is this There is a massive 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:55.560 amount of American firepower in the Middle East right now, 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.240 and we don't know why. And that's very, very peculiar, 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.320 and I think completely unprecedented and very different even from 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:05.000 two thousand and three when we did go to a 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.679 war in Iraq, but we discussed it in advance. We 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.240 talked to allies. We had allies. Actually, as people have 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:13.200 now kind of forgotten, you know, there were a set 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.119 of reasons why we were doing it. You know, you 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.639 can dispute the reasons or don't dispute them, that they 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.439 were presented in a way that was logical. And this 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.840 is completely different. So we're we're both in both in 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.359 Europe where we almost went to war with Denmark, and 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:28.359 now in the Middle East. We're in just a different 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.880 world where American military power is being used without any 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.600 explanation or justification that we're aware of. 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.920 We still have the president of Venezuela and his wife 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.080 in a Manhattan detention yep. 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.920 And in a way, the weirder thing is that we 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.160 have them in a Manhattan in Hesian. But the regime 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.840 is still in place. And so this very repressive, very 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.200 ugly regime, which was by the end of Maduro's term, 0:18:55.240 --> 0:19:00.119 had been rendered completely illegitimate. They stole an election a 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.920 few some months ago. You know, we haven't changed the regime. 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:04.840 And Trump is saying how marvelous it is to work 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.320 with Delsea Rodriguez. This is the woman who's now running it. 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.159 And so once again, the purpose of even that is 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.679 again strange. I mean, there was an informal justification for 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.600 the kidnapping of Maduro, which is that he was being 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.960 arrested because he was in violation of US law, and 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.080 I think Rubio has said that, you know, on a 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.680 couple of occasions. But then Trump will occasionally talk about 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.080 Venezuelan to say, it's really great, We're taking all the oil. 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.520 And so once again, the purpose of it, the justification 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.359 for it is the what is the utility to America 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:39.160 or to Americans or to American foreign policy? That's unclear. 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.520 I mean, clearly some US companies will benefit some money 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:44.639 from the Venezuelan oil is said to be going to 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.000 an account and cutter. I don't know what happens to 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:52.080 that money. These are almost like Trump's private actions, taken 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:57.159 with us the full force of the strongest military in 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.280 the world and really the strongest and most impressive millitary 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.040 machine in human history, and it's just what he feels 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:05.679 like doing when he wakes up in the morning, and 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.119 it doesn't necessarily have to be part of a strategy. 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.480 It's just wild. I mean, it's also quite scary. I 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:17.480 wonder if you could talk about because they're so little frost. 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:21.080 I mean, clearly the American people don't trust it. And 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:24.960 because Trump has tried has not necessarily tried to sell this, 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:27.639 do you still think it will happen? And also do 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:32.000 you think that like that Europe? I mean, I just 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:34.800 am curious, like you know, sort of your sense of 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.639 who are the bad guys here? Like it seems like 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.200 Marco Rubio went in and gave a sort of more 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:44.800 polite speech at Davos, but it still had the same substance. 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.280 So I mean, those are two different questions. Yeah, about trust. 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:53.479 But so the curious thing about the various speeches is 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:55.680 that there were several things said in Munich. I wasn't 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:57.840 at Davos, but I was in Munich, right, and I 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.520 heard difference. That's right, and I'm sorry, yeah, it's okay. 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.760 I heard different speeches made it by different people. Usually 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.320 the message was we want Europe to defend itself. You know, 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.960 we're telling Europe now that we're not going to come 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:11.960 to your aid anymore. You know, we're not going to 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:15.399 be you know, we're not supplying conventional weapons to you 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.639 and to Ukraine and you have to okay, you know 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.240 Europeans have heard that message they got it. They've been 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.040 spending massively on the military in the last several years, 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.119 actually before Trump. I mean it was really Russia that 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:31.359 made them do it. But simultaneously there is another message, 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:35.560 and the other message is we want Europe to be 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:38.639 run by the kinds of political parties that we like. 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.439 Are right parties who use the same kind of radical 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:44.880 language that we use. These are not conservative parties. There's 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:48.480 europe conservatives already right now run Germany, they run Poland 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:50.960 you know, they but they don't want like those kinds 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.680 of conservatives. They want radicals. And the radical parties with 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.159 they're all a little bit different, but with some with 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:01.000 some exceptions, tend to be pro Russian. They are against 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:05.640 European defense spending, and they are opposed to European unity 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.120 and the European unit itself. They want to break it up, 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.960 you know, and which I which if that were to happen, 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.879 European self defense would become impossible. So we're in a 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.520 very weird moment where there's these these different messages going 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:22.160 out and that means that it's not just a question 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:25.960 of one or you know, Trump not being trustworthy or nobody, 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.840 you know, it's it's you know, literally, US policy makes 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:33.560 no sense. It's it's illogical, you know. And again, you know, 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:37.639 the Danes as they got ready to defend Greenland, you know, 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:41.480 and prepared their people to fight the United States. You know, 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:44.600 only a few days later, when Trump kind of dismissed 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:47.440 the idea, they were being treated as, oh, well, why 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:50.720 did you take all that so seriously? You know, if 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:52.879 you're the prime minister of a country that might be 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:55.840 fighting the United States and you're forced to take it seriously, 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:58.600 and then you're told not to take it seriously, what 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:00.760 do you conclude in the end? You know, you can't 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:03.399 trust anything, you know, you it's not a question of 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:05.720 whether it's Rubyo or Vans or Trump or anybody else. 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:09.000 I mean, the whole thing is seems incoherent to people, 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:11.840 and they are looking for ways out. I mean, it 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:16.359 is not easy to untangle European and American relations, just 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:19.520 like it's not easy to untangle Canadian and American relations. 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:23.160 These are relationships and ties and contacts built up over 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.600 many decades. I think they are the they are the 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:29.520 fundamental basis of American prosperity. You know, the fact that 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.360 we had these big markets, you know, we have allies 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:35.160 who treat us like you know, as if we were 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:38.720 you know, we we you know, always to be trusted 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:41.840 and always to be you know, and reliability to be 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.840 taken for granted, and all of that is now going 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:46.840 to take a long time to pick apart, and there 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:49.639 will be ups and downs, but the process is beginning. 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:52.720 I wonder if you could talk about the midterms, because 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:56.960 they're like looming. I think there's a lot of anxiety. 0:23:57.280 --> 0:23:59.679 I wonder if you could talk about what you're seeing 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:01.600 and and sort of what. 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:06.280 You think is coming there. So I don't, like, I 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:09.400 don't I can't predict the midterms. I mean, the thing 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:13.399 I would I would watch very closely is the administration's 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:19.520 multiple efforts to manipulate or shape the playing field, or 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.879 maybe even something more dramatic. You know, the the effort 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:25.640 to manipulate election is not going to be one thing, 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:27.520 or probably it won't be one thing. It'll be a 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:29.560 lot of little things, and some of them have already happened. 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:32.439 You know, the the pressure from the federal government on 0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:36.280 some states to redistrict even out of out of lying 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:39.119 the census, which has never happened before. When you're entering 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.159 long tradition in America, both parties do it, you know, 0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:44.840 but this is never the the you know, the president 0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:47.399 putting pressure on state legislatures to do it. 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:52.520 Never happened federal government redistrict This really good point. The 0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:56.960 Texas redistricting was completely unprecedented, unprecedented. 0:24:57.000 --> 0:24:59.879 You know, your redistricts usually happen after a census and 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:04.199 has any sensus. So that's you know, that's one. But 0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:08.520 there's also the Department of Justice has been demanding that states, 0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:12.400 some states hand over their voter roles, so there are 0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:16.199 lists of voters with voter information on the bogus. I 0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:18.520 don't even know what the bogus grounds. Something to do 0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:22.320 with immigrants, but immigrants. It is well known and has 0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:25.280 been repeatedly shown that illegal immigrants do not vote, like 0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:27.840 they don't want to vote, you know, it would be 0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:30.600 dangerous for them to vote. There's no evidence that they 0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:33.240 vote at all. I mean maybe once or twice, who knows, 0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:35.879 somebody did it by accident, but there's no there's no 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.000 evidence for it. Nevertheless, they're using this as an excuse 0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:42.040 to demand voter roles. There have been a couple incidents 0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:44.720 in the last few years I did a podcast myself 0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:49.439 about this of people voting and then being subsequently kicked 0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:52.400 off voter rolls. This happened in North Carolina. There may 0:25:52.440 --> 0:25:55.840 be other efforts to keep certain kinds of people from voting, 0:25:55.920 --> 0:25:58.679 you know, to keep categories of people from voting. Trump 0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:03.399 has already has talked about eliminating voting machines, voting early voting. 0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:05.680 You know, they're they're looking to do what they can 0:26:05.880 --> 0:26:08.359 to eliminate voting. And so this I think is going 0:26:08.440 --> 0:26:10.840 to be something that is fought at the state level 0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:14.240 in almost every state. And I think people who care 0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:16.920 about voting and think it's important need to pay attention 0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:20.879 to those arguments and have their voices be heard, because 0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:23.199 there there will be an effort to do this. And 0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:25.760 it's not even it's not it takes. It's not like 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:28.480 conspiratorial to say that they're First of all, they're already 0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:30.919 doing it. The second of all, Trump they tried it before, 0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:34.080 They've said it before, they've tried it before. They tried 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:36.400 it on you know, in January of twenty twenty one, 0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:39.199 so we you know, we know they're going to do it. 0:26:39.280 --> 0:26:41.040 And then the only question is can they succeed and 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:43.600 that I don't know. I mean, there are there are 0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:46.960 lawsuits going on, there are states who are resisting, there 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:50.399 are there's some pushback in Congress against some legislation that 0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:52.439 the Trump administrations I had to pass. You know, we 0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:55.199 now have this same act. You know, we now have 0:26:55.320 --> 0:26:57.639 the exactly we now have the Supreme Court for the 0:26:57.680 --> 0:26:59.920 first time having pushed back on Trump on a really 0:27:00.000 --> 0:27:03.760 important policy, this is tariffs. And so maybe you know, 0:27:03.840 --> 0:27:06.920 maybe we'll get some you know, some some judgments from 0:27:06.960 --> 0:27:10.040 courts you know on this too. But it's a it's 0:27:10.040 --> 0:27:12.680 a serious problem. It's not a joke. It will be 0:27:13.240 --> 0:27:15.280 the theme I think of the next six months. You know, 0:27:15.320 --> 0:27:17.399 we're going to be talking about how will they try 0:27:17.440 --> 0:27:21.640 to steal or rig or shape or manipulate the elections, 0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:26.399 because that's what people like, That's what autocratic populists do. Ye, 0:27:26.800 --> 0:27:28.520 that's what they do when they take power. The way 0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:32.600 you end a democracy is by effectively ending people's right 0:27:32.720 --> 0:27:35.600 to vote according to whatever rules of the system they have. 0:27:35.640 --> 0:27:38.040 And our rules are strange, but there's still our rules, 0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:41.439 and you know, you know, we have the right to 0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:43.840 we have the right to elect our leaders by them. 0:27:44.280 --> 0:27:48.960 Yeah, I mean, it is it's definitely when you look 0:27:49.000 --> 0:27:53.000 at the Save Act, I mean, basically, it's unconstitutional right 0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:55.679 to federalize elections. Our whole thing is that we have 0:27:55.760 --> 0:27:59.320 state the states are responsible for elections. But that doesn't 0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:01.520 mean trump't try No. 0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:03.439 I mean the lesson of the last year is it 0:28:03.560 --> 0:28:06.040 just because something is legal doesn't mean he won't try it. 0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:09.199 I mean, you know, he he does things all the 0:28:09.240 --> 0:28:11.920 time that are illegal. I mean are he And He's 0:28:11.960 --> 0:28:14.840 asked people to do things that are illegal, and when 0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:18.000 you know, when they discover they're illegal, they object and 0:28:18.040 --> 0:28:20.119 then they're fired. I mean, that's we have I have. 0:28:20.320 --> 0:28:22.719 That was another thing that featured in one of some 0:28:22.960 --> 0:28:25.480 project that I did. So there you know, they know 0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:28.640 that and that's their modus OPERANDEA, we know it's legal, 0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:30.760 We're going to do it and then let the courts 0:28:30.840 --> 0:28:31.600 find us later. 0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:36.879 Yeah. I wonder if you could talk about the propaganda, 0:28:37.040 --> 0:28:41.000 because that is the other thing, and now we're in 0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:43.960 a sort of new, brave, new world of propaganda where 0:28:43.960 --> 0:28:47.640 there are deep fakes, and I mean I feel like 0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:50.880 twenty sixteen was the first election where we really had 0:28:51.200 --> 0:28:54.240 this kind of you know, sort of Earth one, Earth 0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:58.240 two phenomenon. And it's only gotten worse. And I'm sure 0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:01.160 the Europeans are a little more sophisticated did about what 0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:06.440 they're seeing, and they have a little more regulation around it. 0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:09.120 But I'm just curious if you could talk talk about 0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:09.560 that from it. 0:29:10.360 --> 0:29:14.880 So the way our the way our information space now 0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:19.600 works is that we mostly communicate, and mostly, especially younger 0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:24.080 people get information about politics from not from journalism of 0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:27.040 any kind, like, not right wing journalism, not left wing journalism, 0:29:27.080 --> 0:29:30.240 not Fox News, not CNN. They mostly get their information 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:35.160 from TikTok, from YouTube videos, from you know, maybe they 0:29:35.280 --> 0:29:39.080 use x maybe they use Facebook, and that's how that's 0:29:39.080 --> 0:29:41.400 how people learn about what's going on in the world. 0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:45.240 And all of those platforms are one way or another 0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:51.160 controlled by algorithms that are not designed to promote information 0:29:51.320 --> 0:29:54.800 that's good or i mean, forget about true, you know, 0:29:54.840 --> 0:29:59.600 but information that's you know, calm and you know, designed 0:29:59.600 --> 0:30:02.600 to you know, make you think or make you join 0:30:02.640 --> 0:30:05.160 an argument on all of them are governed by algorithms 0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:10.280 that push extremism, that push anger, emotion, you know. The 0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:13.520 messages that win on any of these mediums are the 0:30:13.520 --> 0:30:17.560 ones that are emotive and strong and angry and often divisive, 0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:20.960 and they also the other way that the way these 0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:24.040 algorithms work is that they allow people to effectively you 0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:27.280 choose your own world to live in. So it's not 0:30:27.360 --> 0:30:29.840 just Earth one and Earth two. There's many earths. You know, 0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:32.840 the world that you've created because of the things that 0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:35.160 you've clicked on, and then you know, then the algorithm 0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:36.440 shows you more of that. I mean I actually had 0:30:36.480 --> 0:30:38.880 a period last week when all I could see was 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:41.760 ice skating because I watched some of the Olympic ice skating, 0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:45.200 and all my algorithms decided I wanted to see more escating, 0:30:45.520 --> 0:30:46.960 so I had to try and find a way. 0:30:46.840 --> 0:30:47.600 To make it stop. 0:30:47.640 --> 0:30:50.040 You know, I admire and loved the ice skating, it 0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:51.880 was amazing, But I was gonna say the third thing 0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:54.120 is that we also live in a world where we 0:30:54.200 --> 0:30:57.480 have the illusion of free speech. Like you write something 0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:00.360 on Twitter or you write something on Blue Sky, and 0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:02.520 you have the illusion you're saying something and people are 0:31:02.560 --> 0:31:05.480 responding to you and you're having a conversation. I mean, 0:31:05.560 --> 0:31:09.040 actually who sees the thing that you wrote, whether they're 0:31:09.080 --> 0:31:11.920 able to respond to it. All of that is manipulated 0:31:12.040 --> 0:31:16.160 by you know, computers in Silicon Valley, basically so that 0:31:16.560 --> 0:31:19.720 we aren't having a free speech conversation. It's not governed 0:31:19.760 --> 0:31:21.960 by rules that we've all agreed on about who gets 0:31:21.960 --> 0:31:25.160 to talk and when and who has heard yea. Instead, 0:31:25.240 --> 0:31:28.440 we're we're having a conversation that's run by by them, 0:31:28.480 --> 0:31:32.480 and I think the the and they for whatever reasons. 0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:35.040 In some cases it's commercial and in some cases it's political. 0:31:35.160 --> 0:31:38.720 These platforms have decided that, you know, propaganda works for them. 0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:41.640 You know that it travels fast, it gets people to click, 0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:45.800 it gets people, you know, it makes people stay online longer. 0:31:45.960 --> 0:31:47.760 You know, maybe some of them. I think Musk probably 0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:50.920 has a political goal. You know, he wants to convert 0:31:50.960 --> 0:31:54.720 more people into his version of radicalism. And see, you know, 0:31:54.800 --> 0:31:57.920 all of that has made this world that's ideal for 0:31:58.200 --> 0:32:01.320 you know, for the spreading of propagand and of false stories, 0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:04.560 you know, false videos. Now that the federal government does it, 0:32:04.640 --> 0:32:06.680 the White House does it. The White House has published 0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:10.160 doctored photographs of people, The administration puts up kind of 0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:14.120 nazi likely on some of its channels. Now that they're 0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:16.840 doing it too, it's really normalized it and it's now 0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:19.840 available almost everywhere, and you know, I think it's people 0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:21.960 often ask me, how do you know what to read 0:32:22.080 --> 0:32:24.000 or how do you decide what's true? And all I 0:32:24.040 --> 0:32:26.560 can say is, you know, I just based on my experience, 0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:30.120 you know, over many decades, I know who's a responsible 0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:33.160 journalist who's actually gone the work and you know, gone 0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:35.320 to interview people and tried to find things out and 0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:38.120 you know, and told the real story, and who doesn't 0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:40.640 And and you have to, you know, you have to 0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:44.800 you now have to have a personal way of determining 0:32:44.840 --> 0:32:47.120 what's true and what's not true, because you know what 0:32:47.160 --> 0:32:48.400 you read isn't going to do it for you. 0:32:48.680 --> 0:32:52.200 Yeah, and thank you so much, Thank you, thank you. 0:32:52.200 --> 0:32:53.720 You're welcome. Nice to see you again. 0:32:55.640 --> 0:32:58.200 Mike tamask He is editor of The New Republic and 0:32:58.360 --> 0:33:03.840 author of The Middle Out The Rise of Progressive Economics. Welcome, Welcome, 0:33:04.000 --> 0:33:07.680 Mike Demaski. Hi, hi, Hi. I'm so glad to have 0:33:07.760 --> 0:33:12.360 you here because there's so much to talk about. Let's 0:33:12.400 --> 0:33:17.440 start with the weird moment we're in. So we have 0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:21.920 the Epstein story. It is really the rest of the 0:33:21.920 --> 0:33:25.520 world is taking this deadly seriously, which I think is 0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:28.680 such a stark contrast to where we are as a nation. 0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:33.640 We have a Norwegian PM who tried to kill himself. 0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:37.920 We have two members of the British you know, one 0:33:38.280 --> 0:33:43.880 former prince, the other a former ambassador, both being swept 0:33:43.960 --> 0:33:46.840 up by the police. And then we have a Republican 0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:51.520 Party and a Trump cabinet filled with the Epstein class. 0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:53.440 So talk us through what's happening here. 0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:57.440 Yeah, well, some of we are taking this seriously in 0:33:57.520 --> 0:34:00.320 the United States, a lot of we. But we who 0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:03.280 aren't taking it seriously, unfortunately, are the we who have 0:34:03.400 --> 0:34:05.520 the power to do something about it. And that we 0:34:06.120 --> 0:34:09.880 is you know, the Justice Department and Republicans in Congress, 0:34:10.480 --> 0:34:14.200 and you know other conservative commentators. Who's who who the 0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:16.200 White House listens to, who might be able to pressure 0:34:16.280 --> 0:34:19.239 Pam Bondi to do something right on this. You know, 0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:21.640 that's the we that's the problem. You know, the we 0:34:21.880 --> 0:34:24.760 that includes you and me and Rocanna and Tom Massey 0:34:25.040 --> 0:34:26.719 very much wants to get to the bottom of it. 0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:29.600 But there's another we that's that's blocking it. And so 0:34:29.960 --> 0:34:32.279 I'm fascinated to see where this is going to go 0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:36.520 with this revelation, this story that NPR broke Thursday, and 0:34:37.000 --> 0:34:41.279 these missing missing documents, the missing documents that have to 0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:43.600 do with this poor girl who's thirteen at the time, 0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:46.719 and you know what she had to say. I don't 0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:49.920 want to speculate her responsibly, but there could be a 0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:51.719 story there. Let's just put it that way. 0:34:52.400 --> 0:34:57.239 Yes, Usually, when the DOJ withholds huge chunks of three 0:34:57.360 --> 0:35:03.760 yo two's of interviews, when the DOJ holds large chunks 0:35:03.840 --> 0:35:08.160 of evidence from what is supposed to be a massive 0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:12.040 file dump that is supposed to include everything, it certainly 0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:15.640 looks like they're trying to keep the public from reading 0:35:15.640 --> 0:35:19.400 certain things. I want to talk about me too and 0:35:19.640 --> 0:35:23.960 accountability because I have been working on something and reading 0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:26.279 all of the sort of you know what happened in 0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:29.920 twenty eighteen, And one of the things that happens with 0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:34.239 a cultural moment like that, with a sort of sea change, 0:35:34.520 --> 0:35:37.799 is that society sort of makes a contract, that the 0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:40.399 contract sort of changes. And I wonder if you could 0:35:40.480 --> 0:35:44.320 talk about the influence that having someone with so many 0:35:44.400 --> 0:35:49.160 allegations of sexual misconduct mean for the American social contract. 0:35:49.560 --> 0:35:53.400 It has corrupted and corroded the American social contract and 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:57.080 taken us backwards in a lot of ways. I mean, okay, 0:35:57.160 --> 0:36:00.920 with me too, things did seem to change. We seemed 0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:04.359 to agree. We again I say this we although it's 0:36:04.360 --> 0:36:08.399 a very phantom concept this week, but you know, more 0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:13.080 or less, society seemed to agree that women had not 0:36:13.160 --> 0:36:16.560 been taken seriously for a long time or ever when 0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:20.480 they lodged these allegations, which it generally takes a tremendous 0:36:20.480 --> 0:36:24.160 amount of courage to go public with or even to tell, 0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:28.279 you know, tell a superior at work. And so society's 0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:30.920 view changed that, you know, we were going to take 0:36:30.920 --> 0:36:34.359 these things more seriously and default on the side of 0:36:34.800 --> 0:36:37.600 believing women and maybe not, you know, and then there 0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:40.360 was some going overboard. So there was a little correction 0:36:40.440 --> 0:36:43.600 that said, Okay, you know, let's not believe everything that's 0:36:43.640 --> 0:36:46.960 said about every man, because people do deserve the presumption 0:36:47.040 --> 0:36:49.800 of innocence here in the United States. But let's presume 0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:54.040 that these aren't just made up crazy things, and that 0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:57.480 this is a problem that society needs to take seriously 0:36:57.560 --> 0:36:59.759 and deal with. You know, I think a lot of 0:36:59.800 --> 0:37:02.640 us in that we are still in that place. But 0:37:02.880 --> 0:37:06.440 when you have a phenomenon like the Epstein phenomenon, and 0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:08.879 when the President of the United States has how many 0:37:08.920 --> 0:37:13.880 thirty credible allegations surrounding him, and when a whole media 0:37:13.960 --> 0:37:18.440 apparatus is dedicated to the proposition of defending him no 0:37:18.480 --> 0:37:22.200 matter what the allegation is, then society's bound to take 0:37:22.400 --> 0:37:23.840 a pretty big step backwards. 0:37:24.000 --> 0:37:26.880 I think one of the things I think about is Lutnek, 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:30.200 because Lutnik is such a good example of someone who 0:37:30.760 --> 0:37:33.920 didn't have any government experience. There are all sorts of 0:37:34.000 --> 0:37:39.320 questions about what his past business acumen was. He then 0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:44.479 elevated by Trump lies about his relationship with Epstein. Now 0:37:44.520 --> 0:37:47.560 we see CBS reported that he did business with Epstein. 0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:51.520 There's certainly an LLC that he signed with Epstein. You know, 0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:55.480 there was a lot of lies and a lot of obfuscation. 0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:59.160 So Trump clearly made this thought that you know, he 0:37:59.320 --> 0:38:01.240 sort of had an eye that if he the first 0:38:01.239 --> 0:38:03.359 time he fired all these people and it was used 0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:06.399 to undermine him, so this time he would fire no one. 0:38:06.680 --> 0:38:09.880 Do you think that that has been a smart play? 0:38:10.120 --> 0:38:13.319 And talk us through sort of what you think in 0:38:13.360 --> 0:38:14.640 connection with Ebstein. 0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:18.480 I hate to call it smart because it's really disgraceful 0:38:18.560 --> 0:38:21.799 and disgusting and immoral, and I can't call anything like 0:38:21.840 --> 0:38:25.520 that smart, but you know I can at the same time, 0:38:25.600 --> 0:38:28.200 concede that it works in the short term. I mean 0:38:28.360 --> 0:38:31.640 lying works for somebody like Trump in the short term. 0:38:31.680 --> 0:38:35.360 Just deny, deny, deny, and turn the accusations. That often 0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:38.360 when you can turn the accusations around on your accuser 0:38:38.600 --> 0:38:42.400 and say what you're guilty of about them, and that 0:38:42.520 --> 0:38:45.880 muddies things up and that confuses and then the press, 0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:49.080 following the rules of mainstream journalism, has to write, well, 0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:52.200 it's complicated, and that confuses a lot of people in 0:38:52.320 --> 0:38:55.359 LATINX case. By the way, nice to see somebody at 0:38:55.360 --> 0:39:00.400 CBS News doing some reporting. Still, that's that's good. That 0:39:00.719 --> 0:39:03.680 was a good story. I don't think let Nick was 0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:07.360 doing anything, you know, sick. It did take his daughters 0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:09.359 with him, but it was obviously some business thing. 0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:11.840 I guess who knows, right, We don't know. 0:39:12.320 --> 0:39:14.799 Yeah, but yeah, the fact is he did lie. 0:39:15.000 --> 0:39:16.680 He just he lied. 0:39:16.920 --> 0:39:19.840 And when you lie that blatantly, there's usually some reason 0:39:19.840 --> 0:39:20.480 in your life. 0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:24.120 Yeah. The Viten diagram of people in the Trump cabinet 0:39:24.160 --> 0:39:27.360 and people in the Epstein files is not quite a circle, 0:39:27.400 --> 0:39:29.799 but there's quite a lot of overlap. Right now, we're 0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:31.400 in a situation where the rest of the world is 0:39:31.440 --> 0:39:34.400 taking this deadly seriously, when the Trump administration is not 0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:37.879 When you look back at me Too, the original Me Too, 0:39:38.160 --> 0:39:41.840 there wasn't a ton of legal accountability, with the exception 0:39:42.000 --> 0:39:44.600 of Harvey Weinstein, but there was a lot of like 0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:49.760 social accountability. Do you think that stuff gets stopped because 0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:52.400 of the admin or you think that could happen anyway, 0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:55.600 because what we've seen is like corporations which used to 0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:59.319 pretend to be moral have really bought into trump Ism. 0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:02.799 My instinct on that is pretty grim. There's not going 0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:05.080 to be a lot of social accountability as long as 0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:08.960 Trump's in the White House and really advance or whoever 0:40:09.000 --> 0:40:11.800 follows him in the White House, because they're going to 0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:14.759 bottle it up in the legal system and they're going 0:40:14.800 --> 0:40:17.560 to prevent these things from coming out, and there's just 0:40:17.600 --> 0:40:20.840 not going to be any oxygen in the culture for 0:40:21.000 --> 0:40:24.080 us to really discuss these things in a serious way. 0:40:24.360 --> 0:40:28.520 The role of presidential administration molly plays in these kinds 0:40:28.520 --> 0:40:31.880 of social and cultural questions, I think is that, you 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:35.000 know two things. A tone is established by the way 0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:37.880 the president talks and the things the president seems to 0:40:37.920 --> 0:40:41.279 care about not care about. That's number one and number two, 0:40:41.560 --> 0:40:45.960 as I said, legally, a Justice department can keep things 0:40:46.000 --> 0:40:49.040 under wraps and just not let them get out. I 0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:52.759 think on Epstein, you know, if there's a democratic administration 0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:56.800 in twenty twenty nine, I think we'll really get somewhere. 0:40:56.960 --> 0:41:00.200 I'm not sure how we get somewhere before that. It's possible, 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:02.080 you know, there could be some brief people in the 0:41:02.160 --> 0:41:04.360 Justice Department who have stuff that are willing to be 0:41:04.719 --> 0:41:07.360 whistleblowers and are willing to leak things. We've seen a 0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.400 number of whistle blowers already in this first administration or 0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:13.239 in the first year of this administration, and there may 0:41:13.280 --> 0:41:14.040 be well be more. 0:41:14.320 --> 0:41:17.400 That is certainly true. So I want to talk about 0:41:17.480 --> 0:41:20.880 what it looks like you think right now? Because the 0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:24.879 Democrats have an opportunity to sort of claim the moral 0:41:24.960 --> 0:41:28.680 high ground. We've seen that with certain members of party. 0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:31.160 I wonder what you think that might look like. 0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:35.320 You know, on Epstein things, I think they're doing pretty well. Conna, 0:41:35.440 --> 0:41:37.680 I think it has done a terrific job, and others 0:41:37.719 --> 0:41:40.680 like Raskin have pitched in. You know, there's only so 0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:43.760 far they can get until all of those documents are released. 0:41:43.760 --> 0:41:47.279 And I also, you know, we assume they've read a 0:41:47.280 --> 0:41:49.759 lot more than you and I have had access to. 0:41:50.120 --> 0:41:53.239 So they know things, but they just can't say it yet, right, 0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:54.000 don't you think? 0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:57.440 Yes, they know certain things, But then there's also all 0:41:57.520 --> 0:42:00.440 this reaction that wasn't supposed to be there that they 0:42:00.480 --> 0:42:04.320 can't get. So I would say I think the co conspirators, 0:42:04.480 --> 0:42:08.719 Les Wexner, I think there's more certainly, yes, you know, 0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:11.080 and Massey has that list of two hundred and fifty 0:42:11.239 --> 0:42:14.319 names that the survivors gave him. The thing that's so 0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:16.799 insane about this case is you have more than a 0:42:16.840 --> 0:42:21.120 thousand victims, you have huge numbers of them who are 0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:24.960 in contact with legislators, and you have states like New 0:42:25.040 --> 0:42:27.759 York where the statute has been changed. 0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:28.640 Yeah. 0:42:28.880 --> 0:42:31.120 Still though, you know, it takes a lot of courage 0:42:31.280 --> 0:42:33.960 to come forward. And so this woman who was a 0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:37.399 girl at the time, with these Trump allegations that are 0:42:37.480 --> 0:42:40.239 part of the story that NPR broke, you know, who 0:42:40.320 --> 0:42:43.560 is she? Where is she? Is she contemplating coming forward? 0:42:43.800 --> 0:42:46.200 I mean there's a lot, you know, she risks a lot. 0:42:46.520 --> 0:42:48.480 You know, she's going to get death threats and kind 0:42:48.480 --> 0:42:50.200 of all that sort of thing. I could see why 0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:51.560 she wouldn't want to do it. 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:55.320 You know, when I talked to Danny Belski, who's one 0:42:55.400 --> 0:43:01.399 of the most coherent, thoughtful, I want to say, she's 0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:05.640 a person who is an extremely good speaker, besides having 0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:10.879 had her life just completely pillaged by Epstein. And this 0:43:11.120 --> 0:43:14.640 group of survivors, they all have a relationship with each other. 0:43:14.760 --> 0:43:16.919 Not all of them, but many of them are sort 0:43:16.920 --> 0:43:20.600 of a support group for each other, which is incredibly 0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:23.920 wonderful but also incredibly awful that that needs to happen. 0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:27.640 And when you talk to them, you really do see 0:43:27.840 --> 0:43:31.560 they didn't have a relationship until these files, you know, 0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:32.640 until this law was. 0:43:32.640 --> 0:43:35.879 Passed, right, Yeah, I think this law was a really 0:43:35.880 --> 0:43:40.440 important landmark in helping to give that community of people 0:43:40.800 --> 0:43:44.560 some courage and galvanize them hopefully into a sense of 0:43:44.680 --> 0:43:47.399 common action. But it's still a very hard thing to do, 0:43:47.600 --> 0:43:51.680 you know, to come forward against powerful people, especially President 0:43:51.719 --> 0:43:53.920 of the United States, who's as vindictive as we know this 0:43:53.960 --> 0:43:54.360 one to be. 0:43:54.719 --> 0:43:56.759 I talked to a member of Congress who said, one 0:43:56.760 --> 0:43:59.640 of the problems is you can't say you can defend 0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:03.440 people when you maybe can't defend them when you're just 0:44:03.520 --> 0:44:10.000 trying to defend yourself. When people like Eric Swallwow, and 0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:14.399 Mark Kelly or being pursued by this Justice Department for 0:44:14.560 --> 0:44:16.719 you know, Mark Kelly's a great example of someone who 0:44:17.200 --> 0:44:20.160 made an ad that said you don't have to break 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:24.879 the law, and the Trump administration went after him. I mean, 0:44:25.280 --> 0:44:27.600 it's hard to feel safe in that environment. 0:44:27.880 --> 0:44:28.840 Yeah, we don't. 0:44:28.640 --> 0:44:31.200 Need any more evidence that. You know, they'll go after 0:44:31.480 --> 0:44:34.719 political enemies with all the weight prosecutorial weight they have. 0:44:35.280 --> 0:44:39.080 Now these things all get thrown out. So James Comy, Leticia, James, 0:44:39.080 --> 0:44:44.200 et cetera, and their prosecutors are Keystone Cops half the time. 0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:47.680 So you know, it's really in a sense if I were, 0:44:47.840 --> 0:44:50.520 if you're one of those people, it's kind of nothing 0:44:50.520 --> 0:44:52.880 to worry about because it's it's are very strong and 0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:54.880 it's going to get thrown out. But still, you know 0:44:54.920 --> 0:44:56.839 your life's going to be turned upside down and you've 0:44:56.840 --> 0:44:59.160 got to go through your emails and your texts and 0:44:59.440 --> 0:45:02.160 you know, and and just and spend you know, at 0:45:02.239 --> 0:45:05.719 least I would imagine fifty to seventy thousand dollars on 0:45:05.760 --> 0:45:07.560 a lawyer at the very least. 0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:10.560 It's funny because it's like, you know, when you think 0:45:10.640 --> 0:45:16.160 about a DOJ that really just exists to promote Trump 0:45:16.200 --> 0:45:19.640 and trump Ism and protect him. It's hard to imagine 0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:20.640 coming back from that. 0:45:21.200 --> 0:45:24.960 It is, but we live in a very weird universe, Molly. 0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:27.319 It was hard to imagine Donald Trump coming back from 0:45:27.360 --> 0:45:28.319 what he came back from. 0:45:28.640 --> 0:45:31.680 Yeah, it's a good point. So we're in the beginning 0:45:31.719 --> 0:45:35.400 of midterms. We're about to go into a primary season 0:45:35.600 --> 0:45:38.760 which is going to be, I'm sure as crazy as anything. 0:45:39.120 --> 0:45:42.480 What are you watching in the Democratic Party? We're seeing 0:45:42.719 --> 0:45:46.680 crazy donations to candidates, but the starving of the DNC. 0:45:47.320 --> 0:45:49.800 You know, I'm just curious what kind of trends you're seeing. 0:45:50.280 --> 0:45:54.560 I want to see Democratic candidates who you know, fight 0:45:54.800 --> 0:45:59.440 and throw some elbows and not stick to this horrible 0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:03.520 consult playbook of being cautious and just talking about prescription 0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:07.480 drugs or whatever it is, and you know, not talking about, oh, 0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:10.040 don't take on Trump, or don't talk about democracy, or 0:46:10.080 --> 0:46:12.439 don't you know those kinds of things. I mean, one 0:46:12.640 --> 0:46:15.600 the thing that I liked about Abigail Spanberger's response to 0:46:15.640 --> 0:46:18.480 the State of the Union Wednesday night was that she 0:46:18.640 --> 0:46:20.640 did those things, you know. I mean, she talked a 0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:23.640 lot about affordability, but then she talked a lot about Ice. 0:46:23.680 --> 0:46:26.440 She talked a lot about Trump's personal corruption, which I 0:46:26.480 --> 0:46:29.760 thought was great. So I hate this conversation, this internal 0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:32.840 conversation among Democrats that like just stick to these safe 0:46:32.920 --> 0:46:37.040 kitchen table issues or should do you know, don't do demotion, No, 0:46:37.520 --> 0:46:40.440 talk about it all. It's all true, and it's all related, 0:46:40.680 --> 0:46:42.880 talk about it all and attack. So I want to 0:46:42.920 --> 0:46:46.120 see Democratic candidates who will fight an attack. And then 0:46:46.160 --> 0:46:48.400 I guess you know, there are a couple of particularly 0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:52.600 interesting primaries that I know you're watching too. The Texas 0:46:52.640 --> 0:46:55.800 primary election is what next week, I think, So, yeah, 0:46:55.840 --> 0:46:59.600 that's an interesting one between Taller, Rico and Crockett for 0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:00.640 that Senate. 0:47:00.480 --> 0:47:03.000 Nod and the Democrats have I mean that just the 0:47:03.200 --> 0:47:08.160 sheer number of voters. Democrats are at like one hundred 0:47:08.480 --> 0:47:12.719 and two percent of the twenty twenty number, whereas Republicans 0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:14.280 are at like fifty percent. 0:47:14.640 --> 0:47:19.799 Yeah, enrollment's favorite Democrats. Enthusiasm certainly favorites Democrats. So it 0:47:19.880 --> 0:47:22.920 should be a wipeout, you know, assuming the election happens. 0:47:23.280 --> 0:47:28.279 Yes, and we shall assume it happens. Mike TAMASKI, thank you, thank. 0:47:28.040 --> 0:47:32.800 You, thank you. No moment. 0:47:34.920 --> 0:47:39.600 Jesse Cannon Somali the Irs broke the law by disclosing 0:47:39.600 --> 0:47:43.759 confidential information to Ice forty two thousand times. 0:47:44.040 --> 0:47:47.200 I am shocked to hear that Trump's Ice has broken 0:47:47.280 --> 0:47:50.239 the law. It was a really good piece today in 0:47:50.360 --> 0:47:55.280 the Atlantic about this book that's coming out about Christy Nome. 0:47:55.440 --> 0:47:56.479 I don't know if you saw it. 0:47:56.600 --> 0:47:57.279 I did see it. 0:47:57.719 --> 0:48:01.080 Yeah, and Corey and what they're up to. And I 0:48:01.120 --> 0:48:03.880 think we're going to be in the golden age of 0:48:04.080 --> 0:48:10.200 some really good reporting on just how insane what's happening is. 0:48:10.640 --> 0:48:13.400 I think there's going to be a lot of reporting 0:48:13.440 --> 0:48:17.000 about this homeland security. And remember, like we already know 0:48:17.040 --> 0:48:19.920 that Corey wanted to be Christie's truth of staff and 0:48:19.960 --> 0:48:23.680 Trump turned it down. And there's a lot of gossip 0:48:23.880 --> 0:48:27.920 that the reason that they fired the pilot was about 0:48:27.920 --> 0:48:30.440 a bag and maybe there was something in the bag. 0:48:30.480 --> 0:48:34.000 And I just think at this moment, these people are 0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:37.480 really like, it's just a house cards. But yeah, they're 0:48:37.520 --> 0:48:39.640 doing a legal shit. We know they're doing a legal shit. 0:48:39.719 --> 0:48:42.879 They tell us they're doing ilegal shit every day. Yeah, 0:48:43.640 --> 0:48:48.120 that's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:53.760 every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best 0:48:53.840 --> 0:48:58.080 minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If 0:48:58.160 --> 0:49:01.200 you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend 0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:04.880 and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.