Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics. Well,
Speaker 1: we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's
Speaker 1: best minds.
Speaker 2: Matt and Meg is now hashtagging fifty first state when
Speaker 2: referring to Canada. We have such a great show for
Speaker 2: you today. The Washington Post Dana Millbank stops by to
Speaker 2: talk the obvious turmoil beginning as Trump takes office. Then
Speaker 2: we'll talk to Massachusetts Attorney General Andrea Campbell about how
Speaker 2: ags can protect citizens from Trump's aggressions. But first the news. So, Mali,
Speaker 2: I don't know how mister Trump does it, but somehow
Speaker 2: I'm feeling sympathy for Liz Cheney, and I don't like
Speaker 2: feeling sympathy for Liz Cheney. What are you seeing happening here?
Speaker 3: What's about to happen is really quite scary and terrible.
Speaker 3: Trump has set up a situation where his people, and
Speaker 3: this is Barry Laudermilk, who you may remember from the
Speaker 3: in s Embomama January sixth, represented Laudermil is trying to
Speaker 3: set up a retribution trial for Liz Cheney for her
Speaker 3: trying to.
Speaker 4: Keep the rule of law going. What this is is
Speaker 4: it will be a show trial if it's allowed to happen,
Speaker 4: which it very well might, it will be the beginning
Speaker 4: of undermining all of a rule of law. It will
Speaker 4: flout democratic norms. It will be truly terrifying, and it
Speaker 4: will be the beginning. It is appalling. We have had
Speaker 4: other times in our country that have been this dark.
Speaker 4: But it is just a shocking development. And it's shocking
Speaker 4: but is not surprising. Like so many things we're going
Speaker 4: to see in Trump world, he has people who are
Speaker 4: willing to do the unthinkable to protect him, change the
Speaker 4: rule of law around create fake You know, Liz Chaney's
Speaker 4: crime would be holding Donald Trump accountable for January sixth,
Speaker 4: That would be the crime she would be standing trial for.
Speaker 4: And if you think about this, it is truly terrifying circumstance.
Speaker 4: Now again, it's Trump, so nobody knows if any of
Speaker 4: this will actually happen, and it's Loud or Milk who again,
Speaker 4: you know, none of these people are known as people
Speaker 4: who have their word being their bond. But it still
Speaker 4: is truly just terrifying development. Last night, Connecticut Senator Chris
Speaker 4: Murphy who did about XD about how it's just you know,
Speaker 4: this is the thing we want to protect norms and institutions, right,
Speaker 4: we want them to survive the four years of Trump.
Speaker 4: If we start the Trump's second administration, which showed childs
Speaker 4: of his political enemies, that is setting us up to
Speaker 4: go someplace really dark. So look, there are still people
Speaker 4: who know right from wrong in that administration. The question
Speaker 4: is will they stop him? And the answer is none
Speaker 4: of us.
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I'm hoping that this is about as serious
Speaker 2: as the imagery I get when I say mister Louderbook's
Speaker 2: last name. So, the curvy couch of Fox and Friends
Speaker 2: hosted Speaker of the House Mike Johnson today, and there's
Speaker 2: this big fight over the cr and the budget. Mally,
Speaker 2: I want you to react to the ininsanity that when
Speaker 2: they discussed it with mister Johnson.
Speaker 5: Well, and this is breaking you news you do not know.
Speaker 5: You know who also does not like this. Elon musk
Speaker 5: the world's sitches man, just tweeted this bill should not pass.
Speaker 5: The only way you're going to be able to pass
Speaker 5: it now, mister Speaker, it is with Democrats if you could.
Speaker 5: What's your message to Elon Musk?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 7: I was communicated with Elon last night. Elon and Vivek
Speaker 7: and I are on a text chain together and I
Speaker 7: was explaining to them the background of this, and the
Speaker 7: Veke and I talked last night about almost midnight and
Speaker 7: he said, look, I get it. He said, we understand
Speaker 7: you're in an impossible position. Everybody knows that. Remember, guys,
Speaker 7: we still have just a razor thin margin of Republicans,
Speaker 7: so any bill has to have Democrat votes. They understand
Speaker 7: the situation. They said, it's not directed to you, mister speaker,
Speaker 7: but we don't like the spending. I said, guess what, Fellas,
Speaker 7: I don't either. We got to get this done, because
Speaker 7: here's the key. By doing this, we are clearing the decks,
Speaker 7: and we are setting up for Trump to come in
Speaker 7: rowing back with the America First agenda. That's what we're
Speaker 7: going to run with Gusto beginning January third.
Speaker 4: So later on during the day, we've seen Elon just
Speaker 4: endlessly tweeting against this, saying it should not pass a
Speaker 4: vague two. Look, Mike Johnson is not some gifted politician.
Speaker 4: He's not Paul Ryan tape. Not that Paul Ryan was
Speaker 4: so great, but Paul Ryan at least sort of knew
Speaker 4: how to do stuff. Johnson is really not so good
Speaker 4: at this He just became speaker in the middle of
Speaker 4: the last Congress. He is he was like the tenth choice,
Speaker 4: you know, when nobody else would do it. So he
Speaker 4: has a very small majority, and he has Elon going
Speaker 4: around tweeting about how it shouldn't be passed and how
Speaker 4: they should keep the government shut down till January twentieth.
Speaker 4: This would mean that the government would not be funded
Speaker 4: for Trump's inauguration. That would mean that the government would
Speaker 4: not be funded for the whole month of January. That
Speaker 4: would mean disability checks, that would mean welfare, that would
Speaker 4: mean everything from all not probably all non essential government
Speaker 4: funding would be shut down. It would be bad for Trump,
Speaker 4: it would be bad for the United States economy, and
Speaker 4: also it would just be an insane way to do things.
Speaker 4: I mean, this is the thing. Elon is threatening all
Speaker 4: of these members and trying to get them not to
Speaker 4: go for this bill. By the way, Mike Johnson hasn't
Speaker 4: passed anything without Democratic votes this entire time, So I
Speaker 4: don't know how they think that this is going to work.
Speaker 4: And it's just a totally insane thing to do. And
Speaker 4: they don't even have control of the government and they're
Speaker 4: trying to shut it down already, so I think it's untenable.
Speaker 4: But it does not portend for good things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just to give people the idea of the things
Speaker 2: that Elon's tweeting, He's writing yes to a tweet that says, this,
Speaker 2: just close down the government until January twentieth, defund everything.
Speaker 2: We'll be fine for thirty three days. And it just
Speaker 2: really shows the ignorance of all the people that are around.
Speaker 2: But yet everybody's calling this guy co president.
Speaker 4: Now, well, I don't know how much power Trump has, right,
Speaker 4: because Elon is the richest man in the world, and
Speaker 4: he can primarily anyone, and he can do anything, and
Speaker 4: he has sixty percent of the satellites over this country.
Speaker 4: He owns eggs, he owns this, he owns that. So
Speaker 4: but it's setting up Elon and the federal government on
Speaker 4: a collision course, which you know, maybe again we don't.
Speaker 4: We're not used to the reality of Trump LUs Elon. Right,
Speaker 4: We've always sart of Trump as the really irrational actor.
Speaker 4: Now we have someone who is even louder and even
Speaker 4: more irrational acting and even more powerful, right because Trump
Speaker 4: just is president. Elon is now ational security actor, owns
Speaker 4: the biggest media platform in a way and is also
Speaker 4: just you know, a rational in a way that even
Speaker 4: Donald Trump is not. And then of course everyone is
Speaker 4: addicted to social media. So I mean, what's interesting about it.
Speaker 4: It's all bad and scary, but what's interesting about it is,
Speaker 4: you know, it will show us a little bit of
Speaker 4: how this is going to go when Trump gets in
Speaker 4: all of this.
Speaker 2: SAMAI I have a unexpected pot twist for you here.
Speaker 2: Usually those are terrible, but the House is going to
Speaker 2: release the ethics report on Matt Gates as soon as Thursday, which, uh, well,
Speaker 2: can't wait to read that one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'm surprised that they were going to
Speaker 4: release it, especially because I just didn't think they would.
Speaker 4: But it sounds like they are going to Matt Gates
Speaker 4: is not going to be happy. Remember mac Gates left
Speaker 4: Congress to prevent this from being released, so I don't,
Speaker 4: you know, I guess that we'll read it. I'm sure
Speaker 4: it's pretty gory because he did leave Congress to keep
Speaker 4: it from being released, and I'm shocked that the House
Speaker 4: is doing that. But you know, I guess if it's
Speaker 4: not Donald Trump, then people get to read about it
Speaker 4: that we'll say. I mean, Look, you know, it's worth
Speaker 4: remembering that the reason that Magat's is in this situation
Speaker 4: is because he made a lot of people in the
Speaker 4: United States Congress very very angry. And it's a good
Speaker 4: example of how even though Congress is supposedly a governing body,
Speaker 4: it really does still you know, if people are your friends,
Speaker 4: you do nice things for them. Would by the way,
Speaker 4: I think that's a terrible way to run the government.
Speaker 4: But I'm just saying that's clearly what we're watching here.
Speaker 2: It sounds like the theme of the week here when
Speaker 2: we've been doing this has been it pays to be
Speaker 2: popular in Congress.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Dana Millbank is a columnist the Washington Post and the
Speaker 2: author of Fools on the Hill, The Hooligan, Salvator's Conspiracy Theorists,
Speaker 2: and Dunsays who burned Down the House.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics, Stay in a Millbank.
Speaker 8: Thank you, Molly. It's boys a joy.
Speaker 9: I'm such a fan of yours.
Speaker 1: I really am, and I don't even I sometimes say
Speaker 1: that and I'm not about the person, but I really
Speaker 1: actually am.
Speaker 4: Well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 8: Can you tell me some of the people you've said
Speaker 8: about that you.
Speaker 9: Don't Yes, let's do that. We'll do that in the
Speaker 9: show notes.
Speaker 1: I'm excited about Mike Johnson and the CR because, my man, guy,
Speaker 1: he's got some problems discuss.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, you want to almost say, poor guy.
Speaker 4: But of course he.
Speaker 8: Does this to himself. But like this was the this
Speaker 8: was the easy one, This was the left of just
Speaker 8: like this was just sort of incrementally punting things into March,
Speaker 8: when he's going to have an even slimmer majority and
Speaker 8: when they actually want to do unpopular things. So this
Speaker 8: is him doing a short term punt full of things
Speaker 8: that you know are actually politically popular to do, you know,
Speaker 8: disaster relief and whatever else. And it looks like, I mean, okay,
Speaker 8: they'll get it through, but you know, with a lot
Speaker 8: of Democratic votes. So not only has he pissed off
Speaker 8: the Freedom Caucus, he's pissed off sort of ordinary you know,
Speaker 8: to the extent there are such things as mainstream republic ends.
Speaker 8: It's not clear whether he can get it through the
Speaker 8: House with a rule or if he has to suspend
Speaker 8: the rules or if he has to break his own
Speaker 8: rule for the seventy two hour thing. And I think
Speaker 8: all of this gets at like Democrats are down and out.
Speaker 8: At the moment, the left is feeling sort of thoroughly defeated.
Speaker 8: But I don't think people appreciate the extent to which
Speaker 8: Trump is going to be inaugurated and then go through
Speaker 8: a series of pratfalls.
Speaker 9: It's like he did in season one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 8: And you can say, well, he's more prepared this time,
Speaker 8: but I don't know. I mean, he's used that preparation
Speaker 8: to be like more vindictive this time, or he's going to,
Speaker 8: you know, try to do more ambitious things. But I
Speaker 8: just like, look at these guys, you know, and this
Speaker 8: is with a more size I said, a more sizable majority.
Speaker 8: They just can't walk and chew gum. And I you know,
Speaker 8: just the expectations are absurd that you know, they've set
Speaker 8: this up like, oh, the doge is going to come
Speaker 8: in and cut two trillion dollars you will spending.
Speaker 10: It's not going to happen.
Speaker 8: You know, he's and he's already sort of walked away
Speaker 8: from I don't know, everything from like trans bathrooms. Oh,
Speaker 8: I don't care about that stuff.
Speaker 4: It's not that many people.
Speaker 8: You know, they're rounding up twenty million people. Oh wow,
Speaker 8: you know, we're not going to have any major police actions,
Speaker 8: you know. I mean it's you can already see all
Speaker 8: the backtracking beginning, and then I think he's gonna, you know,
Speaker 8: be whip sawed by the incompetent House of Representatives.
Speaker 1: I mean, they really are sort of staggeringly incompetent, and
Speaker 1: I want to take a moment to talk about that,
Speaker 1: but I also want to talk about this tension. So
Speaker 1: you had Elon very mad about the CR.
Speaker 9: You had vague.
Speaker 1: You have a group here that's learning how the federal
Speaker 1: government works in real time discuss.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, you know, as I think we've discussed before,
Speaker 8: You've got Elon, or more accurately, Elon's mother out there
Speaker 8: saying it's actually going to be easy. Got two trillion
Speaker 8: dollars of federal spending. But what Elon and Vivek are seeing,
Speaker 8: as you point out, is a real time education. On Tuesday,
Speaker 8: I guess it was the Doge Caucus in the House.
Speaker 8: You know what, do they have sixty people get together
Speaker 8: and talk about how much they really want to cut
Speaker 8: government spending and then a few hours later the CR
Speaker 8: comes out, which buss government spending in all kinds of ways.
Speaker 8: Put out there by Mike Johnson and the Republican leadership,
Speaker 8: And yeah, it has democratic priorities in it. That's because
Speaker 8: the Republicans can't pass anything. If they could pass it
Speaker 8: with their own votes, they don't have to listen to
Speaker 8: the Democrats at all, but they can't pass anything. So
Speaker 8: and this is at a point when Trump is at
Speaker 8: sort of his maximum power in the sense that you know,
Speaker 8: he's claiming a mandate, a mandate that doesn't actually exist.
Speaker 8: But this is the moment when he's theoretically at his strongest.
Speaker 8: And I just think you're saying, you know, it's not
Speaker 8: the doze that captures political reality, it's this fiasco with
Speaker 8: the cr Nothing has change.
Speaker 9: I mean, that's a really good point.
Speaker 1: I also think there are so many different promises that
Speaker 1: are made to so many different people because in the end,
Speaker 1: none of this, Like he got elected on this idea
Speaker 1: that he was going to make things cheaper. There's no
Speaker 1: way to make things cheaper except price caps, which you know,
Speaker 1: people don't want to do because they feel like or
Speaker 1: at least Republicans don't want to do it because they
Speaker 1: feel it's anti capitalized.
Speaker 8: Yeah, but this whole notion that we're going to make
Speaker 8: prices go down, like okay, you know, gasoline prices go
Speaker 8: up and down and that sort of thing are for
Speaker 8: isolated food products. But the whole thing is you don't
Speaker 8: want prices to go down. You don't want defla because
Speaker 8: then you're in the nineteen thirties. You know, that's a
Speaker 8: much bigger problem than inflation. People don't even realize what
Speaker 8: they're asking for in this case. I mean, what you
Speaker 8: want after about of inflation is to calm inflation down,
Speaker 8: but have wages continue to go up. That would be ideal,
Speaker 8: so that you know, earning's power goes up. It's not
Speaker 8: about you know, you know, decreasing the nominal prices. That doesn't,
Speaker 8: That doesn't. That's not going to help anything. It's going
Speaker 8: to set us into an even worse cycle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're really it does really feel like we
Speaker 1: are in peak stupid.
Speaker 9: Talk to me about the we have.
Speaker 1: You know, it's still going to be once after the holidays,
Speaker 1: Trump will still not be inaugurated for another or you know,
Speaker 1: practically three weeks, and then he will have these cabinet fights,
Speaker 1: which are going to really set up Republicans because it's
Speaker 1: not like there's one objectionable candidate for the cabinet. There's
Speaker 1: like about four that are really norms crushers.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think you're being conservative in math, but yeah,
Speaker 8: I could. I think the four you're probably talking about, Yeah,
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, my bet is that most, if
Speaker 8: not all of them go through because I think the
Speaker 8: Senate Republicans will buckle under the pressure. And you've seen
Speaker 8: a lot of that already. That doesn't mean though, that
Speaker 8: it won't be embarrassing because you know, all these things
Speaker 8: that have been you know, people are blaming the press
Speaker 8: for bringing up it's you know, people will actually see
Speaker 8: it on their TV screens to the extent anybody's you know,
Speaker 8: following the news or watching things. But you know, some
Speaker 8: of that's going to bubble up and it's you know,
Speaker 8: it's a lot about drinking and the sexual abuse and
Speaker 8: a lot of crazy stuff. So I don't know how
Speaker 8: much of that filters out there. I think what the
Speaker 8: Democrats need to do is pick one or two to
Speaker 8: really make their case, not that they're necessarily going to
Speaker 8: stop them, but to really you know, try to focus
Speaker 8: to the extent they can.
Speaker 9: Who would you pick if it were you, well.
Speaker 8: I mean, heg Seth is the most egregious, I suppose
Speaker 8: in terms of his personal behavior and his extravagant lack
Speaker 8: of experience of competence in the required field, although his
Speaker 8: mother says that being a Fox News post is excellent
Speaker 8: preparation a three million person organization. But then, you know,
Speaker 8: I mean Tulci Gabbard, I mean, do people actually appreciate
Speaker 8: just how zany she is? And you know, and a
Speaker 8: lot of Republicans are going to squirm about her on
Speaker 8: Russia and Syria and everything else. So I mean that
Speaker 8: would be mine, you know. And then you know, RFK Junior,
Speaker 8: that's just that's just nutty heck. But I don't know
Speaker 8: that one's confusing because I'm glad he doesn't want it.
Speaker 8: He wants us to get rid of pesticides. I mean,
Speaker 8: he's not ole nuts.
Speaker 1: Right now, some of this stuff makes sense, which is
Speaker 1: probably even more worrying, right I guess.
Speaker 8: So it's bizarre that we have to say this, but
Speaker 8: Trump comes out in favor of the polio.
Speaker 9: Scene, which is a huge victory.
Speaker 8: For raises the fine work Jonah Salk has been doing,
Speaker 8: getting recognized more and more of these days.
Speaker 9: We laugh to keep from crying.
Speaker 8: But so this passes for news But okay, the polio
Speaker 8: vaccine is safe. But okay, if he wants to reduce
Speaker 8: the standards for fluoride and war, if that might not
Speaker 8: be such a bad idea. Definitely good to get rid
Speaker 8: of pesticides, eliminating childhood vaccines, which would fill thousands or
Speaker 8: millions of kids less attractive.
Speaker 1: I mean, there is this question about just how much
Speaker 1: you could do to the American people before they notice.
Speaker 8: Right, Yeah, But Molly, I wonder do you really think
Speaker 8: any of this is going to happen. I mean, yes,
Speaker 8: certainly he's going to do some things. They're going to
Speaker 8: be outrageous and bad. But you know, as we were
Speaker 8: discussing him all and ago, I'm just not sure how
Speaker 8: much of this he's going to be able to do
Speaker 8: and how much of it is just noise. Like my
Speaker 8: thinking with Trump is what I worry about is why
Speaker 8: he's going to do that he hasn't said. I'm not
Speaker 8: so much worried.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 8: It's like, oh, he said he's going to deport twenty
Speaker 8: million people. I'm not really worried about that because I
Speaker 8: don't think that's even possible to do. He's going to
Speaker 8: start a trade war with Tarris. Well, our experience on
Speaker 8: that is the only thing Donald Trump cares about more
Speaker 8: than Donald Trump is the stock market. So I don't,
Speaker 8: you know, yeah, I could, you know, could be wrong
Speaker 8: and surprise, but I don't think he's going to start
Speaker 8: a trade war. My worry about Trump is he even
Speaker 8: he doesn't know what he's going to do. So it's
Speaker 8: sort of the impulse and the chaos that I think
Speaker 8: the country has to fear more than like there's some
Speaker 8: explicit agenda that he's going to push through Congress, because
Speaker 8: I don't think he's pushing any agenda through Congress.
Speaker 1: This is the big question, right And remember when Trump ran,
Speaker 1: one of the big problems was that voters were like,
Speaker 1: he's not going to actually do any of this stuff.
Speaker 9: He's just saying it.
Speaker 1: And there was a real disconnection between you know, a
Speaker 1: normal candidate people take literally and again it runs back
Speaker 1: to this idea that you should take Trump theoretically and
Speaker 1: not literally or spiritually and not teutonically. I mean, but
Speaker 1: the reality is we're still giving a person who is
Speaker 1: at best very nutty the nuclear codes.
Speaker 8: No, right, absolutely, And I'm not saying that he doesn't
Speaker 8: want to do or he's not even going to try
Speaker 8: to do the things that he talked about doing, So
Speaker 8: I think we should take him seriously, and we should
Speaker 8: take him literally. What I'm saying is he's not going
Speaker 8: to be able to do.
Speaker 9: This stuff right right, And that's the big question is
Speaker 9: will he.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think he's just going to run into one
Speaker 8: buzzsaw after another.
Speaker 9: And that is basically the hope.
Speaker 8: That would be ideal, Or he'd recognize that he's going
Speaker 8: to run into a buzzsaw and he'd just pull back
Speaker 8: from it, which I think is what they're already doing
Speaker 8: on the mass deportation. You see them tiptoeing back from that,
Speaker 8: tiptoeing back on you know, what's he going to do
Speaker 8: with prices? For a guy who does like to exercise.
Speaker 8: He's doing a whole lot of walking back.
Speaker 1: For a guy who doesn't like to exercise. There are
Speaker 1: some new members of the Senate coming in. Some of
Speaker 1: them are really, like Doug Mastriano, pretty wacky.
Speaker 9: Can we talk about that?
Speaker 8: I think my real question with the Senate is are
Speaker 8: they going to toss the filibuster? And I still kind
Speaker 8: of suspect that they will if it's in their interest,
Speaker 8: Like if they can actually get something through the House.
Speaker 8: You know that they couldn't get through reconciliation when you
Speaker 8: only need fifty votes in the Senate. So I think
Speaker 8: they will do it if it serves their interests. But
Speaker 8: you know, I don't think you're going to see much
Speaker 8: of a change in the nature of the Senate. You know. Yes,
Speaker 8: you've got a few more Maga type who have come
Speaker 8: in and built up sort of the Rick Scott, Cruz
Speaker 8: Holly wing of the party. But John Thune is as
Speaker 8: mainstream as they come, you know, a solid guy. You've
Speaker 8: got Curtis and Utah. I mean there will there will
Speaker 8: be others coming in, you know, who can take the
Speaker 8: place of the Romneys. You know, who knows what's going
Speaker 8: to happen with Mitch McConnell. Maybe he'll finally grow a
Speaker 8: pair now that you know he doesn't have anything to lose.
Speaker 8: I'm not betting on it, but it's possible, you know.
Speaker 8: I don't think the Senate is going to go a
Speaker 8: wholesale maga. I think the action is going to continue
Speaker 8: to be in the House, and if somehow, with his
Speaker 8: one vote majority, Mike Johnson can get a major legislation
Speaker 8: through the House. Well, then maybe the Senate scraps the
Speaker 8: filibuster and things change, But I think the place to
Speaker 8: watch is the House still.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they're just going to have a tough
Speaker 1: time legislating. They're already having a tough time legislating. It
Speaker 1: strikes me that the play here is not so much
Speaker 1: legislation but trying to neecap the federal government as much
Speaker 1: as possible through executive orders, yes.
Speaker 8: Or disapproving of regulations, that sort of thing. So yeah,
Speaker 8: I mean, and that we saw a lot of that
Speaker 8: during the first Trump term.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I mean, I don't want any of what I'm saying
Speaker 8: here to sound like, oh, everything's going to be fine.
Speaker 8: I don't think everything's going to be I don't think
Speaker 8: everything's going to be fine at all. I just think
Speaker 8: this is probably the high water mark for.
Speaker 9: Trump approval wise for sure.
Speaker 8: Well. Yeah, and in terms of his power, I just
Speaker 8: don't think he has the ability. Okay, we're talking legislatively, Yes,
Speaker 8: of course, he's going to have four years of naming judges.
Speaker 8: They're going to have four years of taking wax at
Speaker 8: all kinds of regulations. Regulations change depending on the administration.
Speaker 8: So I mean legislation is where you know fundamental long
Speaker 8: term change will take place. So what can be done
Speaker 8: by executive order can be undone by executive order, right.
Speaker 1: And that is a really good point, and that is
Speaker 1: for sure, definitely true. That's the real case of what
Speaker 1: we're going to see here. People are mad about incumbents.
Speaker 1: They were headwinds that were real. I mean part of
Speaker 1: what happened to this election. I mean, any number of
Speaker 1: things happened, but some of it was this reade towards incumbent.
Speaker 1: In the UK, what happened was the Conservative government was
Speaker 1: finally voted out. They voted in a Liberal and they
Speaker 1: became immediately furious with him for any number of reasons,
Speaker 1: real and imagined. Do you think that's what happens here.
Speaker 8: Well, maybe not exactly the same thing, but look, I
Speaker 8: think what you're seeing happening all over the place. Now
Speaker 8: look the government's teetering in Germany, in France, and now
Speaker 8: in Canada. For anybody who thinks there's something exceptional that
Speaker 8: had happened here, that this is some widespread endorsement of
Speaker 8: MAGA policies, you've got to understand that this is in
Speaker 8: a high inflation environment. Voters are unhappy and have turned
Speaker 8: against whoever is in power. And yes, they are going
Speaker 8: to continue to turn against whoever is in power because
Speaker 8: nobody's actually addressing, you know, sort of the fundamental root
Speaker 8: of the problem, and that is, you know, as I
Speaker 8: think we've discussed before that you know, the workers are
Speaker 8: losing ground. Trump exploited that, and now he's going to
Speaker 8: reward those who voted for him by seeking, you know,
Speaker 8: bigger tax cuts for billionaires.
Speaker 9: It seems like the tax cuts are likely going to
Speaker 9: be the first thing that he does.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it seems to be. I mean, they have to
Speaker 8: take action on them before they lapse. I mean that's
Speaker 8: probably the area where you can get the most agreement on.
Speaker 8: But I don't know Art you know so, I mean,
Speaker 8: so the very first thing they're going to do is
Speaker 8: blow blow another a couple of trillion dollar hole in
Speaker 8: the budget and add that to the federal debt. So
Speaker 8: extra work for Doge.
Speaker 9: In the new year. Dana Melbank, will you come back
Speaker 9: and talk to me.
Speaker 8: I am very happy to talk to you. It sure
Speaker 8: beats work on Molly.
Speaker 2: Andrea Campbell is the attorney general in Massachusetts from Too
Speaker 2: Fast Politics.
Speaker 10: Andrea, thank you for having me. I'm delighted to be on.
Speaker 1: You are the attorney general of the state of Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: Probably we are about to head into one of the
Speaker 1: most important moments in American life or Democratic attorneys general.
Speaker 10: Yes, I would agree, And you know the last time.
Speaker 6: It's not lost to me that the last time we connected,
Speaker 6: we were talking about gun violence. And of course we've
Speaker 6: had our horrific our school based shooting in Wisconsin, so
Speaker 6: we still have work to do in that space, along
Speaker 6: with an administration that is already speaking to some horrific
Speaker 6: things and actions they may do come January. And I
Speaker 6: want folks to know that we're prepared and we're going
Speaker 6: to continue to fight not just in Massachusetts but across
Speaker 6: state lines for the civil rights, our rule of law
Speaker 6: to protect them.
Speaker 9: Yeah, how can you do that? How will you do that?
Speaker 10: A whole host of ways.
Speaker 6: One is I feel blessed to work in an office
Speaker 6: where I have institutional knowledge of lawyers and staff who
Speaker 6: were here for Trump one point zero and then new
Speaker 6: lawyers and staff were ready to roll up their sleeves
Speaker 6: and get creative and think outside the box. And that
Speaker 6: means going into court and using our litigation tools to
Speaker 6: file lawsuits at times against the federal government if they're
Speaker 6: pushing forward policies that would threaten with civil liberties and
Speaker 6: civil rights of our constituents. It also may mean that
Speaker 6: we have to fill devoid for actions that they decide
Speaker 6: not to take any more, including in the consumer protection
Speaker 6: context or on issues of gun violence or reproductive justice,
Speaker 6: where many of these issues may be pushed to the
Speaker 6: states to address because the federal government chooses.
Speaker 10: Not to step up. So it's twofold, but I cannot
Speaker 10: discount that our litigation tools are effective and powerful.
Speaker 6: This office has used them in the past to protect
Speaker 6: access to student loan relief, access to reproductive rights, to
Speaker 6: protect folks from.
Speaker 10: An immoral Muslim ban.
Speaker 6: And we do this working in partnership with other ags
Speaker 6: and other states, namely Democratic ags, who are about the
Speaker 6: same values but most importantly protecting the rights of our constituents.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about what that looks like. You just brought
Speaker 1: up the Muslim ban. A lot of Trump's at least
Speaker 1: in one point zero. I think he thinks in two
Speaker 1: point zero it'll be different. But at one point oh
Speaker 1: a lot of the things that he tried to do
Speaker 1: were stopped in the court.
Speaker 6: That's exactly right. And I think you know, folks still
Speaker 6: to this day, the average person, they don't know who
Speaker 6: their AG is usually or what the office does. I
Speaker 6: think in this moment in time, they will suddenly realize
Speaker 6: that the role of an Attorney General is really important
Speaker 6: to their daily life, protecting their very humanity, protecting their communities,
Speaker 6: their environment, the air that they breathe, the water that
Speaker 6: they drink, protecting their children. So the list is long,
Speaker 6: and we are expected not only to be the chief
Speaker 6: law enforcement office and officer of our states and enforcing
Speaker 6: the rule of law, enforcing our laws to protect our residents,
Speaker 6: but also we're a policy shop. We put forth policy
Speaker 6: and legislation and sometimes grants and fund programming to help folks.
Speaker 4: So we have a lot of tools.
Speaker 6: In our toolkit that can protect folks, including going to
Speaker 6: court to ask for injunctions or various remedies that will
Speaker 6: stop a federal government from taking action that we know
Speaker 6: will harm people. And so these tools are significant, should
Speaker 6: not be discounted.
Speaker 10: And obviously we don't know.
Speaker 6: Exactly what they're going to do just yet, but we're
Speaker 6: prepared and have been preparing in case he won. And
Speaker 6: so we're ready to go, and I want folks to
Speaker 6: take that as a bright spot on during a very
Speaker 6: trying time to say the least.
Speaker 9: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: So just talk to us about what sort of different
Speaker 1: plans can be. I mean, they're stopping legislation and then
Speaker 1: there's legislating, right, explain to us.
Speaker 6: In our office we actually have I've asked my team,
Speaker 6: We've done this, I think quite well to really define
Speaker 6: what are our tools? And I view them as four tools.
Speaker 6: One is litigation, so being able to go into court,
Speaker 6: for example, and file a lawsuit against a corporation, for example,
Speaker 6: that might be doing something illegally to harm our constituents.
Speaker 6: And we see this in the context of scams towards
Speaker 6: our elders or towards poor communities, so corporate accountability. Our
Speaker 6: litigation tools allow us to hold folks accountable. We of
Speaker 6: course can sue the federal government if we need to,
Speaker 6: including a president that is going to harm our constituents.
Speaker 6: So that litigation enforcement tool is significant and important, but
Speaker 6: it's not the only tool an AG office has. We
Speaker 6: also have the ability to file legislation, to go into
Speaker 6: our court courts, I should say, into our statehouse and
Speaker 6: protect our people so I'll give you an example in
Speaker 6: the context of reproductive rights and access to reproductive healthcare.
Speaker 6: Our shield laws are important. Chooses was the first state
Speaker 6: to pass the shield law to protect patients and providers
Speaker 6: who are providing access to critical reproductive healthcare, and other states.
Speaker 6: We just saw that the Texas AG sued New York
Speaker 6: for their shield law. That's a legislative tool, the legislative solution.
Speaker 6: And then our two other tools is our grant tools.
Speaker 6: We have the ability to put out money to fund
Speaker 6: programming and individuals. We've done that including immigrant legal organizations.
Speaker 10: And we have our.
Speaker 6: Community engagement tool, so being able to do trainings with
Speaker 6: our people so they know what their rights are. So
Speaker 6: a lot of know your Rights trainings and other ways
Speaker 6: we're showing up. But this robust set of tools is
Speaker 6: significant in an AG's office. Many offices across the country
Speaker 6: have them, and they will be not only useful, but
Speaker 6: as we are in the front lines, they will be
Speaker 6: essential to being able to protect our residents going forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Republican ags have really been on the front line
Speaker 1: of pushing things that they are you know, partisan craziness,
Speaker 1: and I minded of how they overturned row with SBA
Speaker 1: a year before Roe was actually overturned. Do you think
Speaker 1: Democrats have the same stomach to fight back that way.
Speaker 6: I can't speak for all Democrats, but I can tell
Speaker 6: you I do. You know I have reminding folks, I
Speaker 6: know why I do this work where I come from.
Speaker 6: I'm very faith driven to whose I am, and it
Speaker 6: allows me not only to fight for people, especially those
Speaker 6: that have ever felt left out, left behind, or pressed,
Speaker 6: marginalized invisible. I you know, sit here with loved ones
Speaker 6: who are still incarcerated. As you know, a twin brother
Speaker 6: who died while on the custody of the Department of Correction,
Speaker 6: and my family never got any accountability for that. So
Speaker 6: I understand what it means to hold people accountable and
Speaker 6: to truly deliver on that.
Speaker 10: So I see this as.
Speaker 6: A moment in time to not only step up my
Speaker 6: own personal leadership, but to also model what this courageous
Speaker 6: leadership means. In this moment in time, we have nothing
Speaker 6: to lose, only frank an opportunity to demonstrate the power
Speaker 6: of our offices to protect our people, to really do
Speaker 6: it in such a way that everyone feels not only protected,
Speaker 6: but seen and heard that folks in our LGBTQ plus community,
Speaker 6: even in our elder community, in our veteran community, those
Speaker 6: who are poor, those who are incarcerated, anyone who has
Speaker 6: ever just felt like government was not delivering for them,
Speaker 6: to say, government can deliver for you, and who's in
Speaker 6: these offices matter.
Speaker 10: So we will do.
Speaker 6: Just that, And I'll work with my colleagues, mainly Democratic
Speaker 6: ags across the country as a collective with the hopes
Speaker 6: that we all will exercise that courageous leadership. And based
Speaker 6: on my conversations with colleagues, I think and I think
Speaker 6: I actually know they're up for the task, and if
Speaker 6: we do it as a collective, we really can win.
Speaker 6: And I think the Matt Gates nomination, and frankly that
Speaker 6: going away was because of our collective advocacy in pushing
Speaker 6: back on this nomination of someone that was not only
Speaker 6: not qualified for the job but at a very problematic record.
Speaker 6: That collective advocacy I think helped. And so we just
Speaker 6: have to continue to step up because we have no
Speaker 6: time to waste.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think that's really important.
Speaker 1: Are there other ways in which people can push back
Speaker 1: people listening to this, what would be something you would
Speaker 1: say they should be doing?
Speaker 10: One is get to know your AG.
Speaker 6: I even said that before the election, you know who
Speaker 6: is your AG? It matters are they pushing forth the
Speaker 6: policies that you would want to see for yourself.
Speaker 10: For your family, for your community. Start there.
Speaker 6: If it is an AG that you align with, well,
Speaker 6: how can you join their efforts? Every AG I know
Speaker 6: has a website and ways in which to get involved
Speaker 6: and to plug into the work in different ways. And
Speaker 6: if you have an AG that is not actually being
Speaker 6: responsive to what you think that offers should be doing
Speaker 6: to serve you and you and your peers in the constituents,
Speaker 6: you can also hold them accountable in different ways. And
Speaker 6: if you in addition to that gathering of information and
Speaker 6: getting to know who your AG is, each of us
Speaker 6: either works or we're part of something, whether in a
Speaker 6: formal employment context somewhere where we are expected. I hope
Speaker 6: to exercise some type of leadership. This is a moment
Speaker 6: in time to push our respective organizations to also step up,
Speaker 6: so we think about the attacks for example on DEI.
Speaker 6: I have been in a lot of conversations right now
Speaker 6: pushing corporate leaders and business leaders to use their platforms
Speaker 6: to be able to push back on Policyes, that would
Speaker 6: threaten DEI efforts because I know they work not just
Speaker 6: to make a more diverse space and if you have
Speaker 6: that you'll get better solutions, but even to increase a
Speaker 6: company's bottom line.
Speaker 4: We don't need another.
Speaker 6: Report on that. So in our own rights, we're attached
Speaker 6: to organizations where we can also push these organizations that
Speaker 6: may not pee ads courageous to be able to do
Speaker 6: that courageous work. And then, lastly, as individual can we
Speaker 6: treat each other with respect and dignity and kindness. I
Speaker 6: can't understate how important that is in this moment in time,
Speaker 6: as there are folks out there wanting to vilify immigrants
Speaker 6: and make it seem like every immigrant who is here
Speaker 6: is somehow perpetuating crime in the communities, which is total nonsense.
Speaker 6: We have the ability to push back on that narrative
Speaker 6: in our homes, with our children, with our friends, our peers.
Speaker 10: Which is powerful as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, throughout history, the American people have way
Speaker 1: more power than they think.
Speaker 10: That's exactly right.
Speaker 6: I just feel like there's so many documentaries right now
Speaker 6: on World War two and Nazism, and even our lawsuit
Speaker 6: against the Neo Nazi group here in Massachusetts reflecting on leadership,
Speaker 6: and it's not just the leaders, and I'll put some
Speaker 6: quotes at the top, because we are all leaders in
Speaker 6: our own right. The question is do you want to
Speaker 6: exercise leadership? But bystanders right, you had Nazism or even
Speaker 6: those who were enslaved in this country. All of this
Speaker 6: happening because either folks did not exercise leadership or they
Speaker 6: did nothing, which is just as harmful. And so this
Speaker 6: is an opportunity to step up, as you have said,
Speaker 6: to figure out ways in which to push back. And
Speaker 6: there are numerous ways, and I think many AG offices
Speaker 6: right now are defining some of what that looks like
Speaker 6: through various ways in which to do it.
Speaker 1: As a collective, can you explain to our listeners about
Speaker 1: what the case is with the Nazis that you guys
Speaker 1: are working on.
Speaker 6: So we have a neo Nazi group n SC one
Speaker 6: thirty one that sadly was started right here in Massachusetts
Speaker 6: and they have since moved to other neighboring states where
Speaker 6: we're not going after them because of their beliefs and
Speaker 6: their viewpoints, which is that New England should be for
Speaker 6: white people, and even a specific type of white person
Speaker 6: we follow a lawsuit against them because these beliefs have
Speaker 6: now turned into certain action and conduct where they are
Speaker 6: violating the civil rights of constituency here in Massachusetts and
Speaker 6: other neighboring states, blocking folks access to public libraries, for example,
Speaker 6: because they don't like what's happening in those libraries, or
Speaker 6: going around in various communities and patrolling folks communities in
Speaker 6: a very aggressive type of way, which also is conduct
Speaker 6: that violates the civil rights of folks, and not just
Speaker 6: some folks that they're targeting, but it violates the civil
Speaker 6: rights of all of us. So we have sued them.
Speaker 6: My New Hampshire counterpart was actually, who's a Republican ag
Speaker 6: also sued this group for similar conduct in New Hampshire.
Speaker 6: So there's collective work happening, and I will say at
Speaker 6: times even across the political divide, where we are doing
Speaker 6: meaningful work to protect our folks against hatred and bias
Speaker 6: in anything that would threaten their very existence in being
Speaker 6: in the world, which for me, I think is even
Speaker 6: more important than the tangible things we could provide.
Speaker 10: Folks.
Speaker 1: Are you shocked at how regressive everything has gone to.
Speaker 6: A certain extent? I also have been engaging with so
Speaker 6: many folks, and I have in my entire personal and
Speaker 6: professional life, folks that have really been in the trenches
Speaker 6: of combating oppression and pushing for truth and reconciliation, really
Speaker 6: asking this country that we love. And I know I
Speaker 6: would not be the first black woman ag in Massachusetts
Speaker 6: if I didn't have significant resources and a great education,
Speaker 6: all the things you would need to be successful. This
Speaker 6: Commonwealth of Massachusetts didn't provide that. At the same time,
Speaker 6: I'm mindful of a history in this country that we
Speaker 6: often don't want to talk about, that our kids won't
Speaker 6: learn about. I'm a mom of two young boys, a
Speaker 6: five year old and seven year old, concerned about what
Speaker 6: they're learning or not learning, and at some point, in
Speaker 6: order to be able to move past a dark history,
Speaker 6: including where folks were enslaved in this country, the lack
Speaker 6: of accountability for the lives that were lost, that at
Speaker 6: some point you have to face that if you're going
Speaker 6: to get to the other side and to be able
Speaker 6: to create a world in which everyone is only valued
Speaker 6: but can contribute and truly does equal access to opportunity,
Speaker 6: and where the law is applicable to everyone equitably.
Speaker 10: And we know at moments, there.
Speaker 6: Are folks who refuse to either address that history, to
Speaker 6: not only address it, but to even acknowledge the truth
Speaker 6: about that history in this country. And so in this
Speaker 6: dark moment that people are experiencing, I also sees an
Speaker 6: opportunity for us to roll up our sleeves to be
Speaker 6: honest about that history, but at the same time to
Speaker 6: lift up the positive advocacy of so many unnamed folks
Speaker 6: who would make it possible for me and you right
Speaker 6: to be on this podcast enjoying time together, conversing with
Speaker 6: one another without anyone coming to track us down, because
Speaker 6: we are crossing lines in terms of our engagement right
Speaker 6: the women, the people of color, black people who fought
Speaker 6: and died for us, to take our rightful places, to
Speaker 6: give our gifts of service to the world and of
Speaker 6: course to our peers. That also gives me significant hope
Speaker 6: in this moment in time, and we have work to do,
Speaker 6: but I'm excited also at the same time about the
Speaker 6: possibilit is what we can do if we bring truth
Speaker 6: to it. Healing and also action.
Speaker 9: Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much at Campbell.
Speaker 6: Thank you and thank you for always having me. Thank
Speaker 6: you for the space you create look forward to continue
Speaker 6: to engage together and onward and upward. We have work
Speaker 6: to do, and I'm excited about what lizahead in terms
Speaker 6: of our collaboration.
Speaker 4: A moment exactly Jesse Canon, So.
Speaker 2: Molly, this brings me no joy to discuss whatsoever. South
Speaker 2: Carolina has just introduced one of the most extreme and
Speaker 2: disgusting abortion bills we've seen in this country where you
Speaker 2: see gear.
Speaker 4: So this is a maga bill in South Carolina. You
Speaker 4: know the state bills tend to be where a lot
Speaker 4: of these Republican elected experiment with different legislation, and this
Speaker 4: is no different. This is a bill that would mandate
Speaker 4: the death penalty for women who seek an abortion. And
Speaker 4: South Carolina ranks the eighth highest in the nation in
Speaker 4: maternal mortality, and this would mean it's the bill called
Speaker 4: sc H three five three seven, and it's known as
Speaker 4: the South Carolina Prenatal Equal Protection app And it is
Speaker 4: one of the extreme, most extreme pieces of legislation, and
Speaker 4: it would again this is again this idea of fetal personhood.
Speaker 4: The word person would now be applied to an unborn fetus. Right.
Speaker 4: This means that a woman who gets an abortion could
Speaker 4: be charged with a homicide, and a homicide in South
Speaker 4: Carolina can be punished with the death penalty, so it
Speaker 4: would mean that if you had an abortion, you could
Speaker 4: be executed.
Speaker 2: Dark Times, Dark Times.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in
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Speaker 9: Thanks for listening.