Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Future production of I Heart Radio. I'm
Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology
Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show Donkeys from
Speaker 1: the domesticated donkey to their wild ask ken donkeys are
Speaker 1: an underestimated animal with a courageous heart. There are many
Speaker 1: varieties of donkeys, but they all have one thing in common,
Speaker 1: a desire to kick ass. Discover this and more as
Speaker 1: we answer the age old question what's the Lamborghini of
Speaker 1: the donkey world? Joining me today to talk about asses
Speaker 1: is TV writer and host of the PODCASTO Is This Racist?
Speaker 1: Andrew T. Welcome, Hi, thanks for having me. I am
Speaker 1: so excited a big fan. I think I read your
Speaker 1: You had a blog like a long time. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like over like about ten years ago. Now it might
Speaker 1: be more. Yeah, I read it. Oh god, I read
Speaker 1: it before it was a podcast, so you know, well,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying thank you. Yeah. It's it's just it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm positive when you think about things you wrote that
Speaker 1: long ago, it's always just like, oh god, but it
Speaker 1: was good. So that's sort of my memory. But also
Speaker 1: I'm just like, who the hell knows, Like no I
Speaker 1: thought it. Well, I read it, so I thought it
Speaker 1: was good. I I really enjoyed it. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: But now you're on my turf, so we are we
Speaker 1: are going to talk about donkeys. So one of the
Speaker 1: reasons I asked you to come on is that I
Speaker 1: can see from perusing your Twitter that you are a
Speaker 1: fan of cute animals. Oh sure, well, yeah, I have
Speaker 1: you can pie see on the zoom window. I have.
Speaker 1: I have my chihuahuas who are forbidden from roaming the
Speaker 1: house because they are, uh, they're not great with not
Speaker 1: peeing on the couch. Um, so they're they're they're locked
Speaker 1: in this office with me basically. Um, And uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty I'm pretty good with animals. I was never
Speaker 1: really like an animal person growing up, not like not
Speaker 1: an animal person, but like we would occasionally. I think
Speaker 1: it's because my parents don't really aren't are definitely not
Speaker 1: like petch people. So we occasionally have like a like
Speaker 1: we had fish for a little while. We had a
Speaker 1: fish tank and like, I think a bird, which was
Speaker 1: a little like I think it's that thing like from
Speaker 1: the like a thing you forget like maybe a birden No,
Speaker 1: it was it was definitely a bird. I know. I
Speaker 1: guess I was trying to remember the story because it
Speaker 1: is probably one of those like this is exactly the
Speaker 1: wrongest way to adopt a bird kind of. I mean,
Speaker 1: for one, I don't think anyone had any sense of
Speaker 1: how long they should live, and so that, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm positive we didn't do the correct job taking care
Speaker 1: of it. Um. Yeah, like a budgy. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: even know if those are different. Yeah, so yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it was just from like the grocery store, like
Speaker 1: so whatever. The pet aisle at the literal grocery store
Speaker 1: was okay. I was thinking, like, because at the grocery store,
Speaker 1: they also have lobsters that you get like to eat,
Speaker 1: So I was thinking, like, do they have birds that
Speaker 1: you just like? Cha? I'm from I am from Michigan,
Speaker 1: so that's not like entirely outside of the rem of possibility.
Speaker 1: But no, it was. It was nothing like that. It was.
Speaker 1: It was just like one of those like Midwest UM
Speaker 1: mega stores UM in the eighties. So they had like
Speaker 1: just literally everything and you know, everything from guns to
Speaker 1: pets to every toy you could possibly really want in
Speaker 1: that era and grocer's It's just I don't know, like
Speaker 1: a Walmart, but shot, get your gun, get your uh
Speaker 1: speaking about the wild West and mules donkeys, So I
Speaker 1: I love donkeys. They seem like a just kind of
Speaker 1: a basic simple animal, just like they're in the background,
Speaker 1: you know, like when you see any kind of movie
Speaker 1: and then there's the nerd who like wears glasses and
Speaker 1: you know, works in the library, and just like you
Speaker 1: don't notice them. But then I want to give these
Speaker 1: donkeys a makeover and so we'll notice them for the beautiful,
Speaker 1: wonderful creatures that they are. I mean, I guess they
Speaker 1: are like pre combustion engine there, like the infrastructure animal.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like kind of like you don't notice
Speaker 1: a truck especially, but a horse is like a personal car.
Speaker 1: They're like the tug boats versus you know, versus the yacht.
Speaker 1: It's they're doing all the work behind the scenes, behind
Speaker 1: the scenes crew doing all the work, and they get
Speaker 1: none of the glory. And I want to change that.
Speaker 1: So donkeys, like I said, they don't get enough love.
Speaker 1: I think like the last time we had a donkey
Speaker 1: as a hero was the classic movie Shrek, and that
Speaker 1: was great donkey representation, I thought, because he was. He
Speaker 1: was smart and brave, which is I think those are
Speaker 1: the two defining characteristics of donkeys. They are intelligent and
Speaker 1: they're very brave. Um. I guess that makes sense because
Speaker 1: it is sort of like the whole conceit of Shrek
Speaker 1: is the overlooked thing or the you know, making a
Speaker 1: hero out of something and having that extent to donkeys
Speaker 1: probably makes makes sense. I will, I should be. I've
Speaker 1: never seen a Shrek movie, Are you kidding? Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I was talking about this at work yesterday because all
Speaker 1: the child actors knew that smash Mouth song and it
Speaker 1: took me like a big second to realize it's because
Speaker 1: they had all grown up with it as infantych Shrek. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I'm mad at you or like confused.
Speaker 1: It's a confused anger right now. I mean, look, you
Speaker 1: you want. I don't like to command people to watch things,
Speaker 1: because like that's not my place to tell you what
Speaker 1: media to consume. But I don't. It's like, I don't
Speaker 1: understand how you've avoided it. It feels like it must
Speaker 1: have taken effort because I know that it was on
Speaker 1: every time. The teacher in our school is like not
Speaker 1: having a good day, you know, how to hangover? Shrek
Speaker 1: was on? Shrek was there to teach us important lessons.
Speaker 1: I think this this is going to just directly aged me. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm just old um because like Shrek came
Speaker 1: out when I was in college, so I just like
Speaker 1: never really professors didn't pop on Shrek hangovers. Yeah it
Speaker 1: makes sense. I like I would have had to like
Speaker 1: see it in the theater, I guess, which seems unlikely, right,
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I mean Shrek hit I think when
Speaker 1: I was in middle school and so that was like
Speaker 1: prime time. Here's a video mrs you know, Gabberson just
Speaker 1: put her head down for an hour. Maybe thank you
Speaker 1: makes sense. I think also to the extent that I
Speaker 1: had an opinion on children's stuff, I think I was
Speaker 1: the kind of like pretentious, like college kid who was like, well,
Speaker 1: I much prefer Pixar. Yeah, but Pixar has never done
Speaker 1: a movie about donkeys, so what do they know. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. There's a room. There's a room in
Speaker 1: the market. So donkeys are far from just beasts of burden.
Speaker 1: They are intelligent, thoughtful, fiercely courageous, adorable, loving, and fascinating creatures.
Speaker 1: But because they're more free willed than other domesticated animals,
Speaker 1: they get a bad rap as being stubborn. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, one of Gordon Ramsey's favorite insults is calling
Speaker 1: you a donkey, Like, but a donkey is actually a
Speaker 1: great thing to beat. Means you're brave and you're smart. Uh,
Speaker 1: And they are actually so donkeys didn't just come out
Speaker 1: of nowhere, right like cows and donkeys. It's not like,
Speaker 1: you know, you build a farm and then suddenly donkeys
Speaker 1: and cows are there, Like the cow was domesticated from
Speaker 1: the wild ox and the chicken from the jungle. Foul
Speaker 1: donkeys were domesticated from the wild ass. Now I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say wild ass a lot on this program, and it
Speaker 1: is the scientific term. Uh. And so you are not
Speaker 1: allowed to derive any enjoyment out of hearing it. That's
Speaker 1: like it is you know, actually I guess it's just
Speaker 1: but because of stubbornness or something. It's like the etymology
Speaker 1: of actual the use ass is I'm not curious enough
Speaker 1: to look it up. I'm never curious enough to look
Speaker 1: it up. But wow, what a weird like journey for
Speaker 1: that word. It really is a strange journey. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't actually, yeah, I guess ass meaning your but must
Speaker 1: come from the term ass for the donkey, right, it
Speaker 1: feels like it must just converge on people that are
Speaker 1: disliked somehow. You know, you are an ass because of
Speaker 1: the donkey, and then you are also called a butt
Speaker 1: from time to time, and that just moved over and
Speaker 1: jackass is the term for the male donkey. Uh so
Speaker 1: so yes, uh Now. Donkeys are also the progenitors of
Speaker 1: the most famous animal hybrid in the world, which is
Speaker 1: the mule. The mule is a male donkey plus a
Speaker 1: female horse. Of course, there are a lot of other
Speaker 1: types of donkey cocktails, such as the hinney, which is
Speaker 1: a female donkey plus a male horse, so same combination
Speaker 1: as the mule, but the sexes are swapped of the parents.
Speaker 1: There's the zebroid a k a. The zonkey, which is
Speaker 1: a female donkey and a male zebra, or the donkra,
Speaker 1: which is a male donkey and a female zebra. So
Speaker 1: you know you got you got some fun and fresh
Speaker 1: mixes there of donkeys and other other horse horses out there.
Speaker 1: I feel like I, yeah, I do, I remember that
Speaker 1: from yeah, I guess it must just be I don't know,
Speaker 1: soft college biology class somewhere, just the page of all
Speaker 1: the that made you dissect a zonkey. God, no, just
Speaker 1: like the hybrids. I guess it's sort of endlessly fascinating
Speaker 1: when you're in that part of college to think about
Speaker 1: hybrids or something, I don't know what you do instead
Speaker 1: of watching Shrek. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, waste of time. Waste
Speaker 1: of time. So, the history of the donkey. They were
Speaker 1: domesticated in Africa around five thousand years ago, probably in Nubia,
Speaker 1: So their original habitat was harsh desert lands, so donkeys
Speaker 1: are quite hardy. Uh. It was domesticated from a wild
Speaker 1: ass species, the African wild donkeys, So we will talk
Speaker 1: more about these wild ancestors later. They have been used
Speaker 1: not only as be suburden, but working farm animals and
Speaker 1: as steeds. They spread across Africa, the Middle East, Europe,
Speaker 1: and Asia, and we're soon just everywhere because they were
Speaker 1: so useful for humans. And when we find an animal
Speaker 1: that we think is useful, we propagate that thing until
Speaker 1: it everywhere. Right, Yeah, yeah, that's like the I mean
Speaker 1: right that that's just another another way that we we
Speaker 1: press evolution or or pressing. That's yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1: Here's another question, is so the word steed, it's just
Speaker 1: quadruped you could ride, I realized said steed. I was like, huh,
Speaker 1: what is the origin of that word. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: most of my questions could be truly answered by a
Speaker 1: quick flip through the dictionary, and I cannot stress that
Speaker 1: I will not be either now or later doing those things.
Speaker 1: I don't know the etymology of steed, but as far
Speaker 1: as I understand it, it is any kind of thing
Speaker 1: you ride. I don't even know if it needs to
Speaker 1: be a quadruped like get a writable biped like I
Speaker 1: think writeable, I writable ostrich still would be a steed, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's back as a steed. Actually, that's clear, that's yeah, inarguable.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, right exactly. So. They were first introduced
Speaker 1: to South America by invading Spanish ships, and they were
Speaker 1: later introduced to North America via Mexico. They became incredibly
Speaker 1: popular in North America during the gold Rush, used as
Speaker 1: a beast of burden by miners, but when the mining
Speaker 1: boom ended, many of these donkeys were either abandoned or
Speaker 1: escaped and formed a feral population of wild donkeys a
Speaker 1: k a. Wild burrows. Most of them live in Arizona
Speaker 1: and they're still there, living their best free lives. That
Speaker 1: makes sense. Like, yeah, so it's wow, what a what
Speaker 1: a odd journey, but it right. I guess it's like
Speaker 1: the desert, the desert ish area is just sort of
Speaker 1: an ecosystem. Yeah, you can just like find Huh. The
Speaker 1: super ignorant thing of me that I'm about to say
Speaker 1: is that I would, I guess assume like this is
Speaker 1: just can't be correct. That like the desert is like
Speaker 1: less bio diverse than like say a forest or rainforest
Speaker 1: or whatever type thing. Anyway, I guess what I mean
Speaker 1: is like because rocks is rocks and sand of sand,
Speaker 1: So like the African desert more similar to the Arizona
Speaker 1: Desert than say an African forest as to a you know,
Speaker 1: American forest north or south or whatever. Um. And I'm
Speaker 1: just like, as I'm saying, I'm like, that can't be right.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not that's not a bad idea. I
Speaker 1: mean I think that in general, when you have a
Speaker 1: harsher environment that is more sparse in terms of water
Speaker 1: and nutrients, I do think that bio in terms of
Speaker 1: bio diversity of uh sort of the of like larger animals. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that is. Yeah, there's less substrate to be
Speaker 1: diverse among, right, Like the moon and the Mars and
Speaker 1: Mars have the same biodiversity, so right, I mean there
Speaker 1: is a surprising amount of biodiversity when you look at deserts,
Speaker 1: especially when you include things like insects and vegetation and
Speaker 1: the smaller, less notable animals. But yeah, it is true.
Speaker 1: It is a hard it's a harder lifestyle, so you
Speaker 1: need there's more competition for scarce resources, so it's a
Speaker 1: little harder to have, you know, you basically it's a
Speaker 1: thunder dome. Whereas something like while a rainforest may have
Speaker 1: its challenges, certainly you also have a lot of other
Speaker 1: opportunities for animals to find little niches, and then like
Speaker 1: by finding these niches, you have more biodiversity, right, there's
Speaker 1: just more like carbon and water around. I guess yeah.
Speaker 1: I think like the Amazon rainforest has its run of
Speaker 1: the areas where you have like the most like a huge,
Speaker 1: disproportionately huge number of different species there, and I guess
Speaker 1: it would have been like probably in Arizona before the
Speaker 1: the wild asses outcomputed. It probably like buffalo or something
Speaker 1: like that around I guess, or bison or something like that. Yeah, bison, Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And so actually there are feral donkeys in other parts
Speaker 1: of the world as well, not just Arizona. There's a
Speaker 1: group of feral donkeys in Italy called the Assinara donkey
Speaker 1: who live on the island of Assinara off the coast
Speaker 1: of Sardinia. So fascinatingly, the entire population is albino. So
Speaker 1: their ancestors were domesticated donkeys that were abandoned on the
Speaker 1: island when it was turned into a penal colony in
Speaker 1: eight five, and the locals were forced to evacuate and
Speaker 1: leave so they could build this penal colony. And then
Speaker 1: it's thought that the white coat the albinos of these
Speaker 1: donkeys was due to the fact that the original donkeys
Speaker 1: had been imported from a special breed from Egypt by
Speaker 1: the duke who once lived on the island that just
Speaker 1: had very particular tastes, like hey, I like these albino donkeys.
Speaker 1: Just get them on this island. And then when the
Speaker 1: island was turned into a penal colony and everyone had
Speaker 1: to leave. Uh, these donkeys were just left there and
Speaker 1: then they formed their own feral population. And now it's
Speaker 1: no longer a penal colony, which is great, and the
Speaker 1: prison is abandoned and the feral donkeys have taken possession
Speaker 1: of the prison. So like now this is the donkeys
Speaker 1: have have repossessed the the penal colony, so now it
Speaker 1: is just like a donkey sanctuary. I guess that makes sense, right,
Speaker 1: because it's like anywhere that humans are, probably the first
Speaker 1: thing we do is get rid of the large carnivorous predators,
Speaker 1: and then it's just like who then is going to
Speaker 1: kill these donkeys? Right? And I mean islands actually can
Speaker 1: naturally not have large predators, Like you'll have a lot
Speaker 1: of islands where you have a lot of like you
Speaker 1: can have flightless birds and stuff that are sitting ducks
Speaker 1: more or less because you don't have predators here. So
Speaker 1: I don't even know if this island ever had, right,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't really know the history of it.
Speaker 1: But they they, yeah, they they're doing great. It's now
Speaker 1: a national park and they're protected, so now it's now
Speaker 1: their island. But before we move on to the next section,
Speaker 1: I just want to run through some quick donkey facts.
Speaker 1: They are in the same family as horses. As I
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, male donkeys are called jackasses and female donkeys
Speaker 1: are called Jenny's or Jeannette's, whatever you prefer. I suppose
Speaker 1: it's like you see a donkey, it's like are you
Speaker 1: more of a Genny or more of a Janette? So formal,
Speaker 1: please please, Jeanette was my mother's. So, donkeys who live
Speaker 1: and work in poorer countries live for about fifteen years,
Speaker 1: but donkeys who lead more privileged lifestyles in richer countries
Speaker 1: can live from thirty to fifty years, which I think
Speaker 1: it's one of like when you look at animal health
Speaker 1: in UH and so if you cannot you learn a
Speaker 1: lot about not just like the animals and the environment,
Speaker 1: but also you can learn about socioeconomic issues, like you
Speaker 1: see this drastic effect on donkey lifespan. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a it's an interesting indicator in terms of difference
Speaker 1: in terms of quality of living in different countries. That's
Speaker 1: so wild, Yeah, is it like as far as beasts
Speaker 1: of burden go, do we just like people just like
Speaker 1: work animals to death or like you don't retire from
Speaker 1: or a donkey usually. I mean it's it's one of
Speaker 1: those things where like sometimes people do you know um,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't. I mean, if you're a subsistence
Speaker 1: farmer somewhere and you're struggling to have enough to feed
Speaker 1: your family, being able to like retire your donkey, yeah,
Speaker 1: probably the last of your It's such a like as
Speaker 1: far as like just from a straight resources perspective, it's
Speaker 1: just got to be like it has to be kind
Speaker 1: reproductive to retire an animal. What are you gonna do?
Speaker 1: Feed it? It's it's the opposite feed it while it
Speaker 1: does nothing. So probably there's like a lack of veterinary care,
Speaker 1: you know. And like if you again, like if you
Speaker 1: are a subsistence farm where you may like and I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that that like they don't care about their animals.
Speaker 1: They may love their animals, but if you don't have
Speaker 1: the resources to be able to take your animal too
Speaker 1: of it, then you're not It's it's not going to
Speaker 1: live as long. It's also loving loving like work animals
Speaker 1: is like a particular perspective that is probably would be
Speaker 1: my perspective. But also I'm not farmer, Like I don't know, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, it really depends. Some farmers are going to
Speaker 1: view them as tools, like as they would view a tractor,
Speaker 1: and probably care for them in the same way they
Speaker 1: would care for their tools, and some farmers form a
Speaker 1: connection with them. I think it really just depends. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess what I mean is like it's that perspective
Speaker 1: of like I'm like, oh, how would you not? But
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, there's lots of reasons you wouldn't,
Speaker 1: and they're probably also okay, yeah, no, I mean it's
Speaker 1: I think it is like we can't sit here in
Speaker 1: our you know and sort of our wealthier nations and
Speaker 1: then be like, oh, you should be treating your donkeys
Speaker 1: better because exactly okay, try to be honest. Subsistence farms
Speaker 1: even the way I phrase it, it's like, oh, we
Speaker 1: work animals at death. It's like, well yeah, but you
Speaker 1: know it is not really like what perspective, what like
Speaker 1: leg do I have to stand on on like the
Speaker 1: morality of that honestly? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, but I mean
Speaker 1: it is it is. I think, um, we can think
Speaker 1: about these things in terms of animal welfare, because I
Speaker 1: really don't think I do not think that animal welfare
Speaker 1: and human welfare are ever at odds with each other.
Speaker 1: I think they actually go hand in hand and when
Speaker 1: you improve human and animal welfare, like they can both
Speaker 1: improve each other kind of simultaneously. Sure, yeah, yeah, absolutely
Speaker 1: make so just a few more quick donkey facts before
Speaker 1: the breaks. So they have tough, cupped hoofs that are
Speaker 1: adept for rocky surfaces and climbing at steep angles. These
Speaker 1: hooves are more durable than horse hoofs and do not
Speaker 1: require shoeing because they can sometimes be shoot if if
Speaker 1: they're working and they're working on harder surfaces. But because
Speaker 1: these hooves grow so quickly and are so tough, they
Speaker 1: do not have as delicate a hoof as say a
Speaker 1: horse um, which sounds like I'm judging horse for the
Speaker 1: oh you're little sins of hoof. I it was probably
Speaker 1: like depressingly late in life that I kind of realized
Speaker 1: how like shoeing a horse worked, because it's so wild. Honestly,
Speaker 1: as a very strange I just could super weird imagine
Speaker 1: coming up with it, like whatever road you take to
Speaker 1: get there, like yeah, well it's it's how did we figure? Like?
Speaker 1: It must have been a weird and painful process, both
Speaker 1: for the human and the horse. Yeah, to figure out
Speaker 1: what part of the hoof was not sensitive, Like if
Speaker 1: you if you heard a horse hoof, they will let
Speaker 1: you know and they'll kick you as they should. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean like so much of the hoof is non nonsensory,
Speaker 1: Like they do not have nerves. It's like your fingernail.
Speaker 1: Horses and donkeys, they are essentially like walking on a
Speaker 1: giant finger, which is weird to think about. Um, and
Speaker 1: that hoof is a big old, like big name essentially
Speaker 1: fingernail made out of similar stuff, you know, keratin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and when they shoe a horse, it's they're like they'll
Speaker 1: use nails and stuff. It looks like, oh god, they're
Speaker 1: nailing this thing to this poor horse. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: if you do it correctly, uh, then the horse will
Speaker 1: not actually feel it shouldn't hit any nerves, it shouldn't
Speaker 1: be painful, and it's basically yeah, it's just like wild
Speaker 1: that like you're like walk there like walking around on
Speaker 1: like a press on nail essentially, or like more like
Speaker 1: a surgically implanted press on. Now is like yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like if we nailed like just shoe soles to the horse,
Speaker 1: like maybe not nailed because that sounds painful, but like
Speaker 1: glued them onto the horror feet sounds kind of convenient,
Speaker 1: I guess. Honestly, I'm sure there are people who are
Speaker 1: not strictly speaking opposed to something like that. Well, if
Speaker 1: you walk around barefoot enough, it starts to get all
Speaker 1: calousie and you got your own hooves. Yeah that's my
Speaker 1: fu thing. Yeah she so. Uh. They also have really
Speaker 1: tough digestive systems and can go for long periods without water.
Speaker 1: In areas with little water, feral populations are more solitary,
Speaker 1: and they spread out so they don't have to compete
Speaker 1: for the few resources around, and if there is a
Speaker 1: lot of distance between them, they still communicate with each
Speaker 1: other by brain so that you know, he hall like
Speaker 1: this really loud donkey sounds. Those are really useful for
Speaker 1: donkeys to communicate with each other when they have to
Speaker 1: spread out so that they're not all competing for the
Speaker 1: same water sources. But when there's ample food and water,
Speaker 1: they actually do like to congregate and live closer to
Speaker 1: each other and be more social. Um and usually females
Speaker 1: are the ones that form these permanent more permanent uh
Speaker 1: other quasi permanent. They can come and go, but they'll
Speaker 1: form actually these big mom groups kind of hang out
Speaker 1: and they'll sometimes lit a couple of males join in
Speaker 1: if they like them, but if not, they will violently
Speaker 1: violently exclude the males. So they can be kind of
Speaker 1: click ish, but for a good reason. That's so. And
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, because horses are herds, is it hurts
Speaker 1: are herds? Yeah? And bison buffalo similar, but it's just
Speaker 1: like as you go into the desert, Okay, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they can. They're both social and they can
Speaker 1: be solitary, which I think is a really interesting Usually
Speaker 1: for animals are kind of like one or the other,
Speaker 1: but with certain animals, like they can actually be both
Speaker 1: kind of like on their own and then also social.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's not just it's not just introverts
Speaker 1: and extroverts. There are those of us who are somewhere
Speaker 1: in between. I guess, given how the other Horsey type
Speaker 1: animals it was, they're they're like herd and malls that
Speaker 1: had to develop an ability to be on their own,
Speaker 1: but they're still like talking God, Okay, weird, that makes sense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this and there's actually some really interesting behavior that
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about right after the break that actually
Speaker 1: shows you sort of the difference between donkeys and horses
Speaker 1: and why that combo of solitary lifestyle. But then they
Speaker 1: also like the company of each other has turned them
Speaker 1: into these wonderfully courageous and like just really here hero
Speaker 1: hero hero donkeys, right right, right. That's going to be
Speaker 1: interesting because it's like that has to like so mimic,
Speaker 1: not so mimic maybe, but like that's like closer to
Speaker 1: the human experience or even this like this weird American
Speaker 1: experience where like we are clearly social animals, but some
Speaker 1: of us tell ourselves we are like lone wolves or whatever,
Speaker 1: but we're still living off the fruits of society and
Speaker 1: the social Yeah, okay, that's yeah. I've to figure out
Speaker 1: this meta form maybe during the break, during the break, okay,
Speaker 1: and so we are back, Um, did you figure out
Speaker 1: the metaphor? It feels like it's almost there, but it is.
Speaker 1: It is the thing where it's just like like this
Speaker 1: like fake individualism or not fake individualism, but like not
Speaker 1: it's not true individualism. I think it's yeah, miage of individualism. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I think that like and this is as we talk
Speaker 1: more about the donkey behavior. I think it is something
Speaker 1: to aspire to in terms of like, they have a
Speaker 1: strong sense of individuality, but they care about other animals.
Speaker 1: They care about each other, and they you know that.
Speaker 1: It's like you can be you can be independent, but
Speaker 1: if you but you can still care about your community.
Speaker 1: This behavior perfectly. I was looking at it the other way,
Speaker 1: like donkeys are like the like libertarian assholes of the
Speaker 1: acquine world who are like where live free or die?
Speaker 1: But they're still breathing all this non polluted air and
Speaker 1: driving on rhods and not dying of you know, like unexpected,
Speaker 1: uninspected means or whatever. No, donkeys are definitely community oriented animals.
Speaker 1: So they're known to be stubborn because they're actually highly intelligent, cautious,
Speaker 1: and strong willed. So donkeys are less easily intimidated by
Speaker 1: humans than say, horses. So with a horse, you can
Speaker 1: kind of uh. When you're riding a horse, they can
Speaker 1: be very responsive to you because their reaction to I,
Speaker 1: like a stressful situation or is to like turn away,
Speaker 1: is to go away. So you can train a horse
Speaker 1: more or less like if I tug you in this direction,
Speaker 1: you go in this direction. They kind of trust the
Speaker 1: writer to know what to do, like to have them
Speaker 1: avoid danger. Donkeys do not trust you. You can earn
Speaker 1: their trust slowly, but they will trust their own gut
Speaker 1: and they will not be bullied by you. And so
Speaker 1: if they think that maybe something they're about to do
Speaker 1: is a bad idea, they will not do it. But
Speaker 1: they will become less stubborn if they have a close
Speaker 1: relationship with you, so they can bond with humans and
Speaker 1: grow to trust them. But you really have to earn
Speaker 1: that trust. So you're like, right or die with this donkey,
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean again it comes back to Shrek,
Speaker 1: which again I'm shocked you haven't seen. But the relationship
Speaker 1: between Shrek and his donkey, it was built on trust
Speaker 1: and mutual respect. And that is how you get a
Speaker 1: donkey to trust you is to be more like Shrek
Speaker 1: right right, not like Farquad, which I know none of
Speaker 1: this means anything that you haven't seen. Trust well, I
Speaker 1: I have a sense. I have a sense of what's
Speaker 1: going on just from a yeah culture, but no, I
Speaker 1: think it is it's more just like not more sorry
Speaker 1: because I don't know the original, but but there's that
Speaker 1: like the instinct is to try to portray in the
Speaker 1: instinct in media is like the relationship with like a
Speaker 1: cowboy and his horse, Like you know, lone rangers and
Speaker 1: Silver are like one of a piece. But that's like
Speaker 1: more just that Silver is a brainless follower who will
Speaker 1: do whatever the lone ranger wants him to do, whereas
Speaker 1: he's a sheep. Of course sheep. Donkey donkey would be like, no,
Speaker 1: that's donkey can can give yeah, respond as an equal
Speaker 1: or something donkey, Yeah, donkey trusts but verifies. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: donkeys are not to be trifled with, unlike horses, who
Speaker 1: tend to scare more easily, and their response to danger
Speaker 1: is to run, which is a great strategy. I'm not
Speaker 1: anti horse, I don't. I know, I'm kind of seems
Speaker 1: like that. Um, but I don't want to tear horses
Speaker 1: down right, Okay, all right, that's fair enough. But I
Speaker 1: will say so in a herd structure, like with horses,
Speaker 1: running at danger is a sound strategy because you are
Speaker 1: part of a herd and you won't run together. The
Speaker 1: chance that you're going to get picked off is, you know,
Speaker 1: not not so high. But if you're on your own, um,
Speaker 1: running is maybe not a great strategy, and so donkeys,
Speaker 1: who sometimes have to live solitary lives when resources are
Speaker 1: more scarce, have learned to stand up for themselves and
Speaker 1: so when they perceive danger, they stop in their tracks,
Speaker 1: they assess the situation, they scream uh in anger, and
Speaker 1: then they defend themselves. So this is why there are
Speaker 1: guard donkeys, which is a real thing, so who can
Speaker 1: be even more effective in some circumstances than dark guard
Speaker 1: dogs on like a farm, so guard donkeys tend to
Speaker 1: protect things like herds of sheep, cattle, maybe even chickens
Speaker 1: because when they see a predator like a coyote or
Speaker 1: a wolf or a fox, even like a hyena, they
Speaker 1: have an instinctive hatred of these kind of dog like
Speaker 1: animals and they will go super agro on them. So
Speaker 1: they will bray really loudly, which will often alert the
Speaker 1: farmer that something is a miss, and they will confront
Speaker 1: the predator, stomping, biting, and sometimes picking up and tossing
Speaker 1: the poor unsuspecting carnivore away um. And despite being smaller
Speaker 1: than horses, they are a lot fiercer. They will basically
Speaker 1: protect anything, anyone in anything, whether it's another donkey, another animal,
Speaker 1: or even a human, and they will fiercely defend anyone
Speaker 1: they have bonded with. I guess that makes sense too,
Speaker 1: because it's like it's plenty big enough to handle, like
Speaker 1: your your wolf, fox, coyote type situation. Yea, yeah, and
Speaker 1: they're not. And one of the nice things about having
Speaker 1: a donkey as a as a guard on a farm
Speaker 1: versus like using firearms or something is they don't typically
Speaker 1: kill the predator. They are capable of killing predators, but
Speaker 1: usually they just scare them off, Like if you get
Speaker 1: tossed by a donkey, you're not necessarily going to go
Speaker 1: back for seconds. So, and they aren't really aggressive, They're
Speaker 1: typically just defensive. They don't go out seeking conflict. There
Speaker 1: are some donkeys who have actually been specifically bred for guarding,
Speaker 1: so like the most curad just calm and courageous donkeys
Speaker 1: who have both been trained and a sort of selectively
Speaker 1: bred to be the best guard donkeys in the world.
Speaker 1: I guess that's I mean that, yeah, that makes sense,
Speaker 1: it's really I mean it probably especially like having an
Speaker 1: herbivore be your guard makes a lot more sense than
Speaker 1: any Yeah, just like why you don't want them to hunt,
Speaker 1: you want them to simply like hold a line, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, it is, it is. It is interesting to
Speaker 1: think of an herbivore as being brave. But yeah, like
Speaker 1: I mean there are I mean, I guess also like elephants,
Speaker 1: and there are many other hippos. Well, hippos are actually
Speaker 1: super aggressive and will destroy you. But donkeys are not
Speaker 1: super aggressive. They will you know, they will defend themselves.
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes you know, not to be Missandra here,
Speaker 1: but male donkeys can tend to be more aggressive than
Speaker 1: female donkeys. So most guard donkeys are actually females because
Speaker 1: they they're simply more logical and common rational than the
Speaker 1: male donkeys, right right, right, that makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: It is really charming and wonderful and that like there
Speaker 1: are donkeys out there who have it's just like this
Speaker 1: elite force of guard donkeys and they're not you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like wanton violence that these donkeys are dealing out.
Speaker 1: They just like, you know, they're they're the kind of
Speaker 1: bouncer you want. Like they're not going to keep going
Speaker 1: past the point of like when it's like okay, he
Speaker 1: gets it, he's leaving. They're not you know, keep like
Speaker 1: you know, beating down a guy it's like, yeah, they're
Speaker 1: what people think the cops are, as opposed to what
Speaker 1: cops really are, which is like, right, replace cops with
Speaker 1: donkeys literally anything. Yeah, that would be cute and effective exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: could it be worse anyway, So it certainly worth trying.
Speaker 1: I agreed the elite donkey force easily bribed with like
Speaker 1: little carrots and sugarcubes. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, is
Speaker 1: feeding like a donkey or a horse a sugar cube?
Speaker 1: I know that's like a thing. From me, it just
Speaker 1: felt that that to me started as soon as you
Speaker 1: said I was like, is that real or is that
Speaker 1: like a cartoon thing? Um? I think it's real. I
Speaker 1: mean they don't want to make it as it would
Speaker 1: be sort of a special treat. Yeah, I think it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not something you want to do frequently. It's like
Speaker 1: when when an animal gets I mean some animals cannot,
Speaker 1: like they won't necessarily react to sugar that much, but
Speaker 1: like if they're getting a dose of something more sugary
Speaker 1: than their normal diet, oh this is great. I mean
Speaker 1: it's just like with humans. That's why we like, it's
Speaker 1: just energy in a little it's energy and it's like
Speaker 1: it is rare to have such a high concentration of sugar.
Speaker 1: So when something is rare, we're like, oh, we gotta
Speaker 1: stock up on this because I found like a gold
Speaker 1: mine and that's why, you know, we eat so much sugar.
Speaker 1: Yeah good, it's so good. So donkeys are not only brave,
Speaker 1: but their intelligence has been underestimated. There still needs to
Speaker 1: be more research into it. Seems like it's there's just
Speaker 1: like a weird lack of research into donkey intelligence and
Speaker 1: I think that really needs to be uh rectified. Nor Matthews,
Speaker 1: who is a veterinarian, is one of the few people
Speaker 1: who has spent over a decade studying donkey cognition, and
Speaker 1: she believes donkeys are quite intelligent. Uh. They can open
Speaker 1: and deconstruct fences. They seem to form strong bonds with
Speaker 1: people and can recognize their own names. They're trainable, and
Speaker 1: a lot of people who own donkeys compare them to dogs.
Speaker 1: They say they act very similar lead to just like
Speaker 1: oversized dogs. That's pretty rad honestly, I know, just sweet
Speaker 1: sweet little doggie that you can also ride, but only
Speaker 1: if they feel like it, so you know that it's
Speaker 1: an actual bonding activity. Right, right, right, right. You can't
Speaker 1: force them, yeah, exactly, you have to build respect with them,
Speaker 1: just like dogs. There are multiple breeds of donkey, So
Speaker 1: the largest breed and perhaps most fancy looking, is the
Speaker 1: who has a long, shaggy coat, who's bread in France,
Speaker 1: and we're basically the Lamborghini of donkeys during the Middle
Speaker 1: Ages for French nobility. So you have these rich French
Speaker 1: nobles like rolling up in there bolts and just you know,
Speaker 1: rubbing it in all the all the poor people's faces
Speaker 1: that they have this fancy shaggy donkey. Right. It's the
Speaker 1: shag creates a maintenance, the right that has to be
Speaker 1: part of it. It's just harder to maintain a long
Speaker 1: haired anything. Yeah, I mean, you know, you gotta trim
Speaker 1: it Braxit probably yeah. Yeah. There's also the miniature donkey
Speaker 1: from the Mediterranean area. They weigh around two hundred four
Speaker 1: hundred pounds, which you compare that to that Lamborghini donkey
Speaker 1: we talked about, which weighs up to nine hundred pounds.
Speaker 1: And then there's the and a losing donkey, which is
Speaker 1: a Spanish breed who is one of the tallest donkeys.
Speaker 1: It's more horse like with these very long rabbit like ears.
Speaker 1: So there are I think, you know, just I'll have
Speaker 1: these in the show. Nos, just like google different breeds
Speaker 1: of donkeys. I mean they are they do have some
Speaker 1: diversity there and there they can be quite stunningly stunningly beautiful,
Speaker 1: really interesting looking. And it's something I think people don't
Speaker 1: necessarily know. They just think donkey is just like kind
Speaker 1: of one one flavor of donkey, right well, and it
Speaker 1: is also though except for the yeah, the tall one
Speaker 1: I can't remember, oh here it is end of Lucian
Speaker 1: uh is, it's like just ten squatter than a horse.
Speaker 1: And I think like our human brains immediately disrespect that.
Speaker 1: We like so like respect height that. It really is
Speaker 1: just like that's the main difference visually. It feels like
Speaker 1: hike biases is everywhere. Even Yeah, they're not short, they're
Speaker 1: just like shorter, right yeah, yeah, I I it's discrimination,
Speaker 1: and it is it's wrong. You know, he's poor. They're
Speaker 1: like they're more braver than horses. They were so important
Speaker 1: to helping humanity create civilization and we're just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're like an inch too short. Yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: it's the same as like, you know, there's there's the
Speaker 1: folks who like love the concept of the railway train,
Speaker 1: and then everyone else it's just like it disappears like
Speaker 1: you just don't think about any of that. It's just
Speaker 1: it's just the infrastructure, like you know, yeah, yeah, replace
Speaker 1: cops with donkeys and replace cars with trains. This is
Speaker 1: my utopia. This is like you think I'm joking, Like
Speaker 1: that's that would be a better world. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: M hm. So we're going to talk about wild asses now.
Speaker 1: They are the undomesticated wild counterparts too donkeys. So these
Speaker 1: are not just the feral donkeys. These are the actual
Speaker 1: wild donkeys that were the progenitors of donkeys. These are
Speaker 1: what we took from nature and you know, selectively bred
Speaker 1: to become donkeys. So donkeys were specifically bred from the
Speaker 1: wild asses found in Nubia and Somalia. The Somalian wild
Speaker 1: donkey looks a bit like a cross between a donkey
Speaker 1: and a zebra because it has these little stripe ease
Speaker 1: on its legs. It's it looks kind of like a
Speaker 1: donkey zebra hybrid, but it is not a hybrid. This
Speaker 1: is just how it is. And the desert origins of
Speaker 1: the donkey means it was well adapted for a tough, hot,
Speaker 1: and often sparse environment. And in addition to having that
Speaker 1: hardy digestive system and being drought tolerant, those really long
Speaker 1: ears probably helped keep the wild donkey cool, similar to
Speaker 1: the African hair, which also has these heat I mean,
Speaker 1: I know rabbits have big ears, but it has huge ears.
Speaker 1: And we see this pattern of these really large ears
Speaker 1: often in prey species that live in hot climates. Sometimes
Speaker 1: predators too though, because the ears not only allowed them
Speaker 1: great hearing, but as blood travels through the large surface
Speaker 1: area of the ears, it cools them down. So it's
Speaker 1: like these little air conditioners or their blood. So right,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. There's a double double utility. It's it's
Speaker 1: the radar dish and yeah, exactly exactly. And so while
Speaker 1: the wild asked species can run as fast as horses,
Speaker 1: they like their domesticated donkey kindred, are not easily intimidated.
Speaker 1: They will defend themselves. You know. They don't really have
Speaker 1: the same condensed, permanent herd structure as like zebras. Like
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, they can have this like loose herd
Speaker 1: structure where they will socialize and they can actually become
Speaker 1: quite large, like up to fifty individuals. They'll like hang
Speaker 1: out during the day, but then in the evening they
Speaker 1: kind of dissipate and go their separate ways. So they're like,
Speaker 1: you know, they're not introverts, they're not like just always
Speaker 1: cling to the group. They they've got their own stuff
Speaker 1: going on. But then they'll they're like up to hang
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that's kind of nice. Well, and
Speaker 1: almost to the other way to look at it. To me,
Speaker 1: it's like they would rather be at home, but like, look,
Speaker 1: they go where the work is, so it's like, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta go put in and put in
Speaker 1: some time at this acre over here because this is
Speaker 1: where the grass is or whatever. Right, Yes, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think they do enjoy each other's company though, because
Speaker 1: it seems like even though they're perfectly capable of defending
Speaker 1: themselves when resources are more abundant, they do like to
Speaker 1: be around each other. And they are very affectionate. You know,
Speaker 1: when they bond with people, they will like nuzzle you
Speaker 1: and they will hang out with you. I've seen videos
Speaker 1: of people who have like house donkeys who like come
Speaker 1: in the house and like cuddle with them in bed.
Speaker 1: I was already on the border about like letting my
Speaker 1: dog sleep in my bed sometimes. I mean she has
Speaker 1: to sleep in the crate at night, but she'll like
Speaker 1: wake me up in the morning. Uh, you know with
Speaker 1: dog breath. But like having a whole whole ass ass
Speaker 1: sleep in your bed is a little bit a lot
Speaker 1: that's wild. Yeah, yeah, I mean you're gonna have a
Speaker 1: pretty It is a different kind of bed than I own.
Speaker 1: I suppose. Yeah, you gotta have a structurally stable bed.
Speaker 1: But there are other species of wild donkey found outside
Speaker 1: of Africa. Um, such as the ongers Hogs are found
Speaker 1: all over Asia and the Middle East. They used to
Speaker 1: have a wider range that included more of the Middle
Speaker 1: Eastern Europe, but their populations dwindled. There is probably our
Speaker 1: fault in case you're wondering. They generally look like a
Speaker 1: reddish brown donkey with white bellies. They're quite beautiful. Uh.
Speaker 1: There's also the kiang, which is the largest wild donkey
Speaker 1: who is found in the Tibetan Plateau in the montane grasslands. Uh.
Speaker 1: There are more of a chestnut brown with white bellies. Uh.
Speaker 1: And they will do this behavior that is really amazing
Speaker 1: where they will form rings where they face each other
Speaker 1: with their butts sticking out and start kicking outward at
Speaker 1: any predators that is foolish enough to try to approach
Speaker 1: this angry ring of kicking asses with their asses out.
Speaker 1: That's some like, yeah, that's that's some like basic Greek infantrition. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they've got like the Spartan I don't remember what that's spartan.
Speaker 1: What was it like that structure with the shield. I
Speaker 1: don't it's like the shield formation thingth like that, something
Speaker 1: like that, something like that. I didn't pay him enough
Speaker 1: attention in the you know, history classes, but yeah, like
Speaker 1: they flanks, uh wolves and stuff. It's really impressive. I
Speaker 1: guess it makes sense. And yeah, that's if you're like,
Speaker 1: if your body is makes it so that kicking backwards
Speaker 1: is the most effective thing you can do, right, And
Speaker 1: I mean they can stomp with their front lengths, but
Speaker 1: the the effectiveness of the of the lens thing that
Speaker 1: they're doing is like they're sensitive bits like their next
Speaker 1: and they're right inside and then outside is just like
Speaker 1: strong butts and kicks coming out for these for these wolves,
Speaker 1: which I feel a little sorry for the wolves, but
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I mean that that is a little
Speaker 1: the thing, it's like, actually being a predator in nature
Speaker 1: sucks so bad. You're just starving. People are like see
Speaker 1: them as sort of the antagonists and like that they're
Speaker 1: fearless kind of just going around enjoying murdering, but they
Speaker 1: live in constant fear and they'll actually be That's why
Speaker 1: they're so easily intimidated by donkeys is if they're if
Speaker 1: they're injured, that can be it for them, because if
Speaker 1: they can't hunt, they're gone. So like, even as minor
Speaker 1: injury can actually kill them. All these like back to
Speaker 1: nature assets like oh, I've a lone wolf. It's like
Speaker 1: lone wolves could die from a faking paper cut, Like
Speaker 1: it sucks to be a lone wolf. Yeah, lone wolves
Speaker 1: like are usually the ones that are gonners. You know.
Speaker 1: That's the one good lesson we could learn from the
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones is that actually, no, it's not being
Speaker 1: a lone wolf. They have a pack formation that's very
Speaker 1: suitable for them. But yeah, if you if you want
Speaker 1: to be a rugged individual, I think donkeys are a
Speaker 1: much better example because they still care about their community,
Speaker 1: but they're okay with kind of being on their own
Speaker 1: as well, and so I think that is a much more.
Speaker 1: That's a thing to aspire to by it's by necessity,
Speaker 1: like you you are, you're an individual by necessity, but
Speaker 1: you that's yeah, that's also true of human lone wolves.
Speaker 1: They just don't they don't see the world in a
Speaker 1: correct way, right, I mean like yeah, but like if
Speaker 1: you're more of an introvert or solitary person, you can
Speaker 1: still you know, you can still have the courage of
Speaker 1: a donkey and defend. Yeah. Yeah, well and and know
Speaker 1: that you're you know, it's all built off of this
Speaker 1: society that we have all agreed, you know, helps each other,
Speaker 1: even if you don't exactly, yes, exactly. So we have
Speaker 1: to play quick game of gifts. Who's squawking? Last week's Mr.
Speaker 1: Animals sound was with this hint. It has a prehensile tail,
Speaker 1: a hunger for eucalyptus and fresh meat. This is Australia's
Speaker 1: brush tail possum. So congratulations to Joey P who gets correctly,
Speaker 1: and to runner up Ido R who gets a possum.
Speaker 1: But the North American variety, so not quite right. So
Speaker 1: the brush tail possum is a marsupial found in Australia.
Speaker 1: They're like the opossums we have in the US, uh
Speaker 1: in terms of both being marsupials, but they're actually not
Speaker 1: all that closely related, so they're not they're related and
Speaker 1: that they're both marsupials, but they're not the super most
Speaker 1: closely related of the marsupials. So the Australian brush tail
Speaker 1: possum looks like a giant mouse with a fluffy, brushy tail.
Speaker 1: It's extremely adorable, but like the American opossum, they are
Speaker 1: adept at taking an advantage of human habitation in raid gardens,
Speaker 1: kitchens and trash cans, or even boxes of pastries. There's
Speaker 1: this really cute picture of possum just inside a box
Speaker 1: of pastries, jam all over its mouth. Tommy distended. It's
Speaker 1: my favorite picture and I feel like it represents me
Speaker 1: the most of any animal. While they do eat a
Speaker 1: lot of eucalyptus, they won't turn their nose up at
Speaker 1: fresh meat. They will eat rats or other small animals.
Speaker 1: So onto this week's mry animal sound the hint. I
Speaker 1: know Father's Day was a couple weeks ago, but it's
Speaker 1: still not too late to celebrate the amazing dad who
Speaker 1: makes this sound. M m m m if you think
Speaker 1: you know the answer, you can write to me at
Speaker 1: Creature feature Pod at gmail dot com. Well, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining me today. Where can people find you? Oh,
Speaker 1: I guess just enter tea on anything must musmall t
Speaker 1: I yos. This racist is going on tour, so we
Speaker 1: can go to suboptimal pods dot com and find out tickets.
Speaker 1: What are we doing Boston, Boston, Austin, Minneapolis and Brooklyn currently.
Speaker 1: I think that is honestly probably gonna be our main shows.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that's it. That's where you can find awesome.
Speaker 1: Please do it because you know that is It's a
Speaker 1: great podcast, and I thought the blog was great. Thank
Speaker 1: you appreciate, Thank you so much for joining. If you're
Speaker 1: enjoying the podcast, you know to leave a review and
Speaker 1: I you print out all the reviews and I am
Speaker 1: adding it to my paper mache man and you know,
Speaker 1: so please help me with that project. Thanks to the
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Speaker 1: features a production of I Heart Radio for more podcasts
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