WEBVTT - Why is DHS buying private prisons? 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.920 Alsome Media. 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.119 Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. My name is James. 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:11.280 We're starting Gangs. 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:13.960 I forgot to press the record button and I am 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:16.320 very lucky to be joined by Wendy Frye and we're 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.799 going to talk about a piece that Wendy did for 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:24.360 cow Matters about the FEDS DHS buying detention centers in California. 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:25.919 Hi Wendy, Welcome to the show. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:27.720 Hi James, thanks for having me. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:32.000 Yeah, okay, so let's begin. I suppose by summarizing this article. 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:33.680 We'll link to it right, and I think everyone should 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:35.879 read it. It's a really good piece of reporting. But 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.440 can you explain what is happening here with these two 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:40.400 detention centers? 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:42.319 Sure? Yeah, thank you so much so. 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:47.480 Last week, COURSEOVIC, one of the largest private prison companies 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.839 in the country in the nation, a publicly traded company, 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.240 announced that they had sold two of their properties to 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:58.400 the Department of Homeland Security for a billion and a 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.680 half dollars. And those two facilities are two of the 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.880 largest immigration detention facilities in California. O time mesa distention 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:08.920 center in San Diego County that has a capacity of 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.399 just a little under two thousand beds and. 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.320 Then the other one is the newly. 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.959 Opened California City facility up in Kern County, and that 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.000 one's just a little bit bigger with the capacity of 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.760 twenty five hundred beds. And we learned the details about 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.680 the sale through this filing with the Security Exchange Commission. 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:27.680 Like I said, because it's a publicly traded company, they 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:29.640 have to make some of the information about. 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:30.200 This deal public. 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.240 And we learned that the federal government paid seven hundred 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:36.360 and thirty nine million I think for O time Mesa, 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:38.039 and then the other one was I think about seven 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:39.679 hundred and thirty million. 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:41.240 For California City. 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.959 And we've done some additional reporting too since that article 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.600 came out, and we just last Friday, we're talking with 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.400 the San Diego County Appraiser, the Assessor's office and Kern 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:55.080 County found out that the last appraise value on these 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.080 properties was about a quarter of what the federal government 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.800 paid for them. So last praise value I think aout 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.520 one hundred and sixty million for O TEG Mesa. Not 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:06.840 I don't have the exact number, but around that, so 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:09.480 they paid, you know, maybe four times and of course 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.800 of praise's value, we have to take it sort of 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.760 with a grain of salt because it's not the market value. 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:15.560 But it would be very. 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:17.080 Hard to figure out what the market value is on 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.359 a property like this because there just aren't very many 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:19.679 of them. 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.120 Both places are these huge, brawling federal prisons. 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:24.960 That don't get sold very often, so it's hard to 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:26.280 figure out what the market value is. 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:27.960 But those are the last of praise value. 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:31.640 Yeah, sure, not much much your market for a giant prisons, 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:33.240 I suppose, certainly best to guess. 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:35.040 Yeah, none much to compare it to as far as 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.000 the sale, right and on the federal government side, On course, 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.600 offic side, they said that this whole thing went through 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:44.600 a very rigorous process of governmental review and that everything 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:45.720 is above board there. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.720 Yeah, so of course they'll say that. Yeah. So these facilities, 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:51.200 like they spend a lot. 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:52.960 Of money on them, right, and they have a lot 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:54.960 of money right now, they're sitting on a giant. 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:55.480 Pile of money. 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:57.480 Actually, before before we talk about what they spent on them, 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.919 people will remember when President Biden him into power, him 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.960 saying he was going to end private prisons, right, so 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.840 we should just, I guess begin by explaining how that 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:11.680 didn't include immigration detention and how these places have like 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:13.720 as you say, they haven't just continued, but in the 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.399 last two years, I guess they're trying to expand immigration 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.520 detension capacity, right right, Yes. 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.360 So in California, particularly California state officials have tried to 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:28.239 ban private prison companies from operating within the state of California, 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:32.000 and the Ninth Circuit didn't uphold that. Like the California 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:34.639 Passe law, Governor news and signed it. It went ended 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.240 up in court. GEO Group and Course of BIC, the 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.840 two largest private prison companies, were fighting against this, and 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.800 they won the Ninth Circuit uphold the California can't ban 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:50.120 these facilities from operating, but they have pushed back a lot, 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.960 and California lawmakers are trying to write a series and 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:56.720 pass a series of laws that would require more of 0:03:56.720 --> 0:04:00.520 the tax revenue from these companies to be you know, 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:06.080 absorbed by the state and disincentivized, basically financially disincentivized these 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:07.880 private prison companies from operating. 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.200 And that is one of the reasons why. 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.120 DHS in a statement that they put out, Jason Sweeney 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.480 with Ice told me, you know, it's financially infeasible, it's 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.000 become too burdensome from their point of view for the 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.520 private prison companies to operate in California because of all 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:24.520 the oversight and because. 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.120 Of all the you know, pushback. 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:30.320 The California officials have tried to do and have done 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:32.520 as much as they can basically. 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:37.200 On let's talk about this new attempt to grow detention capacity, right, 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:41.760 because their previous attempt was these warehouses where we spoke 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.200 to some folks in Social Circle on this show Social 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:45.600 Circle Georgia a. 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:46.360 While ago about that. 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.800 So, can you give people who haven't been following this 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.000 little synopsis of why they've moved away from the putting 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:53.800 human beings in warehouses models? 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:54.920 Sure? 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.320 So the spending bill, the federal spending bill that President 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:03.920 Trump signed last year to just the insanely unprecedented amount 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.640 of money for immigration enforcement, like more than even the 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.160 entire budget of the entire federal prison system. Right, it 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:16.240 includes about forty five billion dollars just for detention capacity alone. 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:18.960 So they poured a ton that, like you said, they're 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.800 sitting on just this huge pile of cash that they 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:22.640 have to spend. 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.240 They have to do something with that money. 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.760 The plan at the beginning of the year were, as 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.560 you mentioned these warehouses, right, that they wanted to from 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:36.640 their perspective sort of more intelligently design the both the 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:38.160 tension capacity. 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:39.520 And the deportation machine. 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:43.240 I think I'm not one hundred percent sure which DHS 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.000 officials said this. I think it was Tom Holman in Phoenix, 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.920 but it could have been ANOTHERDHS official, But basically they 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:54.360 said they wanted to design the quote Amazon Prime for humans. 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.400 So like they want to make this as fast and 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.040 as efficient as possible. They want to have a capacity 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.160 to say, up to one hundred thousand people on any 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.679 given day, and they have a ton of cash, cash 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.800 that they've never even seen before, right, So buying up 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:10.520 this billion and a half dollars of real estate in 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.680 California is feasible to them, and they've. 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.480 Signaled that owning it rather than leasing it or. 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.800 Having Corsivic run it is more beneficial to them in 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:24.400 not having to comply with the oversight. The different inspections 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.280 and laws that California officials have tried to put into 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:31.400 place that allows, for example, inspectors with the California's Attorney 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.520 General's office, and there was a twenty twenty four law, 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:38.240 the California Pass that would allow local health inspect inspectors 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.640 to go in and do a health inspection. San Diego 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:42.719 County is the only place where they've actually tried to 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:47.680 do that, and the private company pushed back, so they've said, 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.360 do you jes have said in their statement that you know, 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.359 owning this and rather than another entity owning it gives 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:57.279 them the upper hand as far as avoiding some of 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.080 this oversight, and the federal courts have upheld. 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.600 That actually, right, So let's dig into that a little bit. 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.400 Right, A lot of people have started paying attention to 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:12.080 immigration detention approximately halfway through January in twenty twenty five, right, right, 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.680 And if you had been paying attention before in California, 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.120 you would have known that thousands of people were detained 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:22.000 without food, water, or shelter in the open air for months, 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.880 not like an individual duration stay was at most like 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.720 a week, but that the practice continued in Harcomber, YEP 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:34.960 in Acomber, and then yeah, in at least three places 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.840 in Hokkumba. I believe there were also other oad sites 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:43.160 that we didn't find, at least I didn't know about. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.480 And then that also happened in Arizona as well. But 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.560 at that point in time, there was not a great 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.960 deal of inspection by the county. I saw a Office 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:57.320 of the Immigration detention on Bardsman person once their visit 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.400 didn't seem to result in any changes. But like, has 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.880 California committed on why they suddenly care about the I 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.680 guess the conditions migrants are detained in when they didn't 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:10.760 seem to care in a way that mattered three years ago. 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:15.600 Right, they certainly weren't coming out in statements and pushing 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.800 back as hard as we have seen them push back 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.760 against the Trump administration. That's true, and I have asked 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.920 like top California officials that. In an interview I did 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.960 with the California Attorney General Rabonta, I did ask him. 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.040 I was like, this is my really hard question for you, 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.600 is you know it didn't seem like you were pushing 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.959 back in this same way when you know there were 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:38.680 babies sheltering and porter partties. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:39.000 Right. 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:39.600 Oh yeah. 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.880 One night in September, I remember a lady breastfeeding a baby. 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.319 The baby was shivering, which, like, it's not a good 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.200 sign when babies are shivering, And like I was warming 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.880 up milk in the camping stove in my truck and 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.680 my friend was cycling toddlers in and out. 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:57.480 Of like a little warming station they built. 0:08:57.600 --> 0:08:59.320 Like I've been through the Darien Gap and that's still 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.480 some of the worst shit that I've ever seen. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.520 It was horrific, Right, I remember thinking like where is 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.200 the un like where is like the Red Cross? 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.839 Like this is a humanitarian crisis out here. 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.840 Yeah, And it was in such a remote area it 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.280 was so it lacks so much visibility, both from the 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:17.280 media and you know, public officials. 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.240 So we did talk about that at one. 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:23.600 Point, and Bonta's response was, you know, we had a 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:27.320 working relationship with the Biden administration that wasn't controversial or 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.559 wasn't adversarial in the way that our relationship is with 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:32.880 the Trump administration, and so we could work on that 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:34.319 stuff behind the scenes. 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:35.960 Now I know you were out there. 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.920 Anybody who was out there would say, nobody really ever 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.760 saw the results of that collaboration or that work, right, 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.560 And you know, it is a concern for sure that 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.800 it does seem like California politicians, do you get more 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.360 bang for their buck in opposing the immigration policies of 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.800 the Trump administration. When it's important to note that a 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.240 lot of this infrastructure including especially a lot of the 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.200 AI infrastructure that are being used to surveill people who 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:06.240 are against these policies, and the palanteer the AI technologies 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.760 that is being used right now to find people and 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.079 detain them without making the headlines and in quite as 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.719 a high profile way as we saw last year. All 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.480 that was put into place by the Biden administration, right, 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:18.880 and so it. 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:20.679 Is important to note that for sure. 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.959 That a lot of these systems that now the Trump 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:37.760 administration is able to utilize were handed to them. 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.280 Let's entertain the idea that we have a midterm election 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.720 and the presidential election and they are conducted in a 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.160 way that we kind of are accustomed to with elections, 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.400 and the results are respected. Let's imagine we have a 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.959 Democrat in twenty twenty eight. 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:52.840 To do the master. 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.200 The FEDS will still own these two giant detention centers. 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:57.520 Right. 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.920 The way that immigration, in my experience works is like 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:05.040 it only seems to move in one direction. I guess 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.240 like this is why this is such a concern. 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.040 They're seeing themselves. 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:13.560 DHS is saying themselves that this is a deliberate strategy 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.080 to make their detention build out more permanent. 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:20.040 And harder to roll back with the changing. 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.480 Political wins, right, and so they're acknowledging that that that's 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:24.360 what they're trying to do. 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:26.560 That's not great, Yeah, yeah, that's. 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:28.760 But yeah, so it's from their own mouths, right. 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:33.440 So yeah, deeply concerning I wonder though, like previously they've 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.720 had a practice of moving people out of San Diego County, 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.719 Like I guess the practice is are on word. There 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:43.160 is like a number of incidents that I'm aware of 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.760 where they've moved people away from their lawyer in San 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.000 Diego County right to a detention facility like Dilly or 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.640 somewhere in Texas or something like that. I guess I 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.679 would make that impossibly it did's the same as it 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.880 was before. It'll just be from a federal prison to 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:56.559 a private prison. 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:57.000 Maybe. 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.960 Well, it's a less favorable federal jurisdiction a district, so 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.120 in San Diego I would say probably it's a more 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.600 favorable outcome to go before a federal district judge in 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:12.000 San Diego for a possible habeas petition and to flow 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.960 down the process as far as being deported, right, I 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.720 think that that probably happens faster in a federal district 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:19.720 in Texas. 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:20.240 Than it would here. 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.280 I have heard a lot from families about family members 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:28.240 being moved out to you know, these very remote I mean, 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:29.800 there's been an effort for a long time to make 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.520 sure that these facilities are set up in very remote 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.920 areas of California and in other parts of the country, 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:40.040 in remote areas that are hard for advocates, hard for attorneys, 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.920 hard for journalists like me to get to to report 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.160 what's going on in them. You know, it's like six 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.320 hours to get to California City as a drive I've 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.559 made way more times than I've want to now at 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:53.280 this point, right, So, you know, it does it does 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.480 impact the amount of resources that people can be connected to. 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.079 It is the biggest expense that I have as is 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:03.400 moving people around the country. I remember Senator Padilla did 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.000 say like it seems sort of illogical the way they're 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.360 moving Like they're moving people from California out of California 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.480 while they're moving people in other places into California. And 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.000 it seems illogical the way they're moving people around. But 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:18.880 the impact of that, I don't know what their purpose 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:20.960 or their intention is of doing that, but the impact 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.720 of is it really disorients people, Right, it's like where 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:24.920 am I, what am I doing? 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:26.640 What are the rules here? How do I get my 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.920 phone card set up? It takes them days. 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.320 Where they're kind of pushed back on their heels trying 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.559 to figure out what the system and the guards and 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.760 the new place where they go. And then, like I said, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.280 it's definitely makes it harder for people when they get 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.680 moved around to these different facilities, and it's something that 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:44.880 we're definitely seeing happen a lot more. 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.440 Definitely hearing it from a lot of families in LA of. 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.920 Concern about people being moved way out to California City, 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:53.720 which is like in the middle of the Mohabi Desert, Right, 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:55.400 it's hard for families to get out there. 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:55.920 Yeah. 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.839 Yeah, it's like it's up in Kern County, I think, right, 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.200 But it's a high from anywhere from any major population 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:03.200 center in California. 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:04.199 It's a long drive. 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.320 Yeah, it's like an hour and forty minutes from like 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.839 the farthest eastern community in LA, like Cheerlea. They have 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.240 an office in like eastern LA, And I think it 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.200 was like an hour and twenty to an hour and 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.920 forty to get to that office from California City, So 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:20.200 it's just just remote. 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:21.560 It's in the middle of nowhere, you know. 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.000 Yeah, And if you think about where would I put 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:25.600 a place that's in the middle of nowhere where I'd 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:27.960 have the least amount of oversight, right like that, that's 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.200 the place that's definitely where you would pick. 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.200 Yeah, definitely combat Like OUTI mesa detention center. There are 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.400 bad things about what happens there, but like it is 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:39.360 relatively close people can get to it. 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.240 There are almost always people there, like. 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:46.120 Outside if someone is released, or people protesting what's happening there. 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.240 Like you say, like it's hard even to do things 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.640 like for someone to get money on their phone card 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:53.680 or like someone I've reported on many times and the 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.520 show was detained at Dilly and like it's difficult to 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.680 work out how to like put money on their commissary 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:00.960 so they can buy food because the food they get 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.200 is absolutely awful, and things like this and them every 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.600 time you move that that's different again, right, Like. 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.360 I was talking to an individual in El Salvador and 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:14.600 they were saying that, you know, they were moved around 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.000 maybe nine times before they were deported, and each time 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.200 they got to the different facility was like where am 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.920 I and who who are kind of the leaders in 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.280 this in this place, or like who do I talk 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:27.160 to because I need to get I need to get 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.920 this worked out. And sometimes they wouldn't even be able 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.320 to get the phone cards set up before the next 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.160 time they got loaded back on a bus to go 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.520 somewhere else, so even let their family know where they are. 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.040 And that's why it's so concerning that ICE is going 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.600 around opening facilities. Like we had one facility open I 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:44.320 think also in Current County. It's like right next to 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:46.440 Golden State annext so it's like kind of part of 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:50.320 that property. But they didn't tell anybody, right, Like, nobody 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.360 knew that this facility was opened until we reported on 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.640 it opening. And you know, if you're a family member 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:58.600 and you're looking on that ICE detainer, you're trying to 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.160 find your family member. If we have these, you know, 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.600 almost almost like black site ice detention facilities opening up 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:06.960 that nobody knows are running, how are you going to 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.520 find your family member if it's not even listed there 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.280 in the facilities, right. I Mean, there's been a lot 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:15.360 of reporting about how sometimes people are disappearing into these systems, 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:17.880 but that's one of the reasons why California has tried 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:19.800 to set these laws to say, like you have to 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.800 give the public a certain amount of notice before you 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.160 open a new facility, so that people are aware that 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.720 it's coming and they can have an opportunity to, you know, 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.480 say go to the California City Council meeting and make 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:35.200 their opposition known. But we've seen both ICE and the 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.200 private detention companies have in some cases been able to 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:39.960 find ways around those rules. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:43.840 Yeah, one of I guess the interesting things that we 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:48.520 have seen in the last maybe six months even maybe 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.800 somewhere that mostly this year, Right, it's like communities coming 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.280 together to oppose these things and data centers, right, or 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:59.080 like across a wide swath of American politics, like the 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.320 learn of the folks organizing in social circle and not 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.080 people who I think would generally identify as progressive politically, 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.640 but they were opposed to all the local consequences as 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:12.360 well as the abuses that happen in these detention centers. 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.320 Like it's definitely getting harder I guess for them to 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.399 build from scratch detention centers, right. 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:19.359 That's correct. 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.480 I mean some of these when at the beginning of 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.600 the year, when they had the warehouse plan, and they 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.119 were planning some of these mega detention centers, which like 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.280 they were trying to hold you know, ten to twelve 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.360 thousand people, which is crazy more than Rikers. 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:32.520 Right right. 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.040 Yeah, like the largest would be the largest facility anywhere. 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.600 And you know, they were talking about even making their 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:43.200 own wastewater treatment plants, bringing in their own services because 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.119 the cities where the local municipalities wouldn't be able to 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:50.360 handle the influx of people, of employees of you know, 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:52.080 the roads, all. 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:53.320 The all the different services. 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:55.000 And so I think that's one of the things that 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:59.240 people are realizing is that these properties have an impact 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.439 outside of just the people that they're detaining, right They 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.359 have an impact, a ripple effect on the entire community. 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.200 And I think people are becoming aware of that now. 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.199 Yeah, definitely, And it seems like, yeah, they're trying to 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.320 do other things. And they sold some of those warehouses 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.440 a loss as well, but it doesn't matter in the 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:17.159 grand scheme of how much money they have. 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.200 They have to get rid of forty five billion dollars, 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.960 so they really are aren't stressing the losses. 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.440 You know, it's a weird. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.320 Problem to have, but they feel like they have to 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:30.359 spend this forty five billion arts kind of like use 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.080 it or lose it if they don't buy the next 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.200 by I think it's three years that they have, so 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.000 I think we will see them buying more properties for sure. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.280 I think they really have their eye on at Alanto. 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.320 I said a script that like scans the SEC to 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.680 like automatically alert me if any of those companies sell anything. 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:50.159 Right, No. 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:50.520 Cool. 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.240 The other thing to keep in mind too about this is, 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.119 you know, the federal government doesn't pay local and state taxes, 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:00.320 so where they go into these small cash straps like 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.880 California City and say, hey, you're going to get two 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.000 million dollars a year in tax revenue from this facility opening. 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.240